Jon on Trump’s Epstein Meltdown, MAGA's Mutiny & Elmo’s Antisemitic Tweets | Kyla Scanlon

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Speaker 4 You're listening to Comedy Central

Speaker 4 from the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news.

Speaker 4 This is the Daily Show with your host, John Stewart.

Speaker 4 Johnny got himself a new do.

Speaker 4 Very nice. My name is John Short.
Man, have we put together a great show for you tonight? Economic commentator Kyla Scanlon will be here later. She's going to be talking about which laboo boo.

Speaker 4 I was told that's a real thing

Speaker 4 a laboo boo apparently it's like a tele-tubby with fangs

Speaker 4 which one's the wisest investment but first I

Speaker 4 let let me be completely frank

Speaker 4 we had a tremendous show planned for you

Speaker 4 well designed articulate

Speaker 4 tremendous deconstruction of the most interesting issues of the day. We prepared a whole piece on the new Trump tariffs, breaking down the different rates and their secondary impacts.

Speaker 4 A truly illuminating dive into the overlooked role of the commodities markets in trade deficit accounting.

Speaker 4 It was going to be so funny,

Speaker 4 but sadly, at the last minute, we had to scrap all that

Speaker 4 because Elmo

Speaker 4 lost his fing mind.

Speaker 6 Elmo is back to his usual family-friendly content after a hacker posted racist and anti-Semitic remarks to the Sesame Street character's ex-account.

Speaker 4 This is what happens when you go too long without tickling Elmo.

Speaker 4 I'm sure it wasn't terrible. It was Elmo.

Speaker 4 How bad could it be?

Speaker 6 The since deleted posts called for death to the Jewish community and criticism of President Trump.

Speaker 6 The hacker also demanded the release of the Epstein files and used inappropriate language to respond to other users.

Speaker 6 All caps, Elmo?

Speaker 4 By the way, to the news people,

Speaker 4 is that the only B-roll of Elmo you have

Speaker 4 to play for the Death to Jews story? Look at Elmo in the B-roll. He's dancing!

Speaker 4 Hey, everybody, Trump's a child f ⁇ er! Woo!

Speaker 7 Havana Gila!

Speaker 4 Havanagila! For God's sakes, you don't have any footage you could use of Elmo being appropriately sad or circumspect when talking about those posts. It's Elmo.

Speaker 4 Every week he's in a spiritual crisis. Here he is.
Look, we found this. This is him

Speaker 4 finding out that leaves fall off of trees.

Speaker 4 Oh, Elmo just found out about life's impermanence.

Speaker 4 Couldn't you have used that for his death to juice stuff?

Speaker 4 Instead, he's out there, death to juice.

Speaker 4 Anyway, these tweets were especially shocking to me as someone who has worked with Elmo.

Speaker 4 I've worked with Elmo, as everybody definitely remembers.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I hosted Elmo Palooza in, I'm gonna say 1831.

Speaker 4 This picture makes me sad for a number of reasons.

Speaker 4 It does remind me though of a certain point in one's career where you haven't really established yourself yet. And so they really don't give a shit if your wardrobe fits.

Speaker 4 You're just kind of a guy that's there with a suit that's there. And if it fits, great.

Speaker 4 And if it needs to also fit Big Bird for the next sketch,

Speaker 4 take it off, Stuart. Snuffle Up against us up next.

Speaker 4 I mean, Jesus. Did I take a dump in my pants? Look at this.

Speaker 4 You know, when the camera people are laughing at, that's not fair.

Speaker 4 Richie, that's not fair.

Speaker 4 The truth is, I'm being honest, Elmo at the time was great to work with.

Speaker 4 He was.

Speaker 4 Was there a ton of Coke on set? Of course.

Speaker 4 But hateful racist Elmo is not the Elmo that I remember.

Speaker 4 I know what's in Elmo's heart. And so I thought it would be appropriate to have my old friend back

Speaker 4 so that we could talk through this very difficult time. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my old friend, Elmo.
Elmo?

Speaker 4 Hey, everybody!

Speaker 4 Who's ready to learn about

Speaker 4 rainbows? Yay!

Speaker 4 Elmo,

Speaker 4 you know what we're here to talk about.

Speaker 4 The Jews.

Speaker 4 That's right.

Speaker 4 We're talking about the Jews, Elmo.

Speaker 4 I think you had something that you wanted to say.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 4 Elmo was hacked.

Speaker 4 They hacked Elmo. They guessed Elmo's password was Elmo.

Speaker 4 Elmo 123.

Speaker 4 Elmo knows passwords should have more numbers, but Elmo only knows three numbers.

Speaker 4 Elmo,

Speaker 4 what did we talk about about taking responsibility?

Speaker 4 It's true.

Speaker 4 Elmo wasn't hacked.

Speaker 4 It was Elmo.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 Elmo was radicalized by the manosphere.

Speaker 4 Elmo is part of the male loneliness epidemic.

Speaker 4 You see, what happened was Elmo was doing his own research on flu shots.

Speaker 4 Six hours later,

Speaker 4 because of the algorithm,

Speaker 4 Elmo was moderating the QAnon Discord chat

Speaker 4 and building homemade bombs.

Speaker 4 Elmo,

Speaker 4 you need to take responsibility. Don't blame the algorithm.
A lot of kids count on you for life lessons. And Elmo, accountability is a big part of that.

Speaker 4 Are you canceling, Elmo?

Speaker 4 Once again, the so-called tolerant left policing speech that's inconvenient to their woke dogma.

Speaker 4 You, you,

Speaker 4 you're the real puppet.

Speaker 4 What?

Speaker 4 Elmo, that just sounds like alt-right talking point word salad.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 You said it, not Elmo.

Speaker 4 Elmo's alt-right.

Speaker 4 No reason to cancel Elmo's funding then.

Speaker 4 Oh my god, is that what this is about?

Speaker 4 Elmo,

Speaker 4 you're pandering to the right

Speaker 4 so you can keep your government funding for public broadcasting?

Speaker 4 Elmo can't go back on the streets, John.

Speaker 4 You have no idea what it's like.

Speaker 4 Elmo's too pretty to live under a bridge, John.

Speaker 4 It's a life brought to you by the letter sucking b.

Speaker 4 Elmo won't.

Speaker 4 Elmo won't go back.

Speaker 4 Elmo can't go back.

Speaker 4 No!

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 I guess I'm glad you don't, I guess, actually believe all that stuff you said about Jews.

Speaker 4 Of course not, John. Elmo doesn't believe almost any of it.

Speaker 4 Although, I mean, it is kind kind of weird they all stayed home on 9-11. Don't Elmo, they didn't stay home.

Speaker 4 That is a myth, Elmo. Oh,

Speaker 4 okay.

Speaker 4 Elmo, sorry, please don't let them cut Elmo's funding. You'll talk to them, won't you?

Speaker 4 Libel wits.

Speaker 4 All right, okay. Elmo, everybody.
Elmo.

Speaker 4 Wow, that was...

Speaker 4 That was... That was enlightening.

Speaker 4 I didn't expect any of that.

Speaker 4 Elmo shoots from the hip. You can't control him.

Speaker 4 I'll admit, the sucking ⁇ thing threw me off, too.

Speaker 4 I thought that was weird. I thought that was weird.

Speaker 4 Now, the impetus for Elmo's rant seems to be the Department of Justice memo that has just been released that said the Epstein sex trafficking case was officially closed and that no new information would be forthcoming.

Speaker 4 And while Elmo is demanding that the files be released,

Speaker 4 Donald Trump's response is brought to you by the letters FU. You're still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years.
Are people still talking about this guy, this creep?

Speaker 4 That is unbelievable. Unbelievable?

Speaker 4 You guys ran on it.

Speaker 4 Remember this?

Speaker 2 We need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing.

Speaker 4 This Epstein sex ring operation, I'm not letting it go ever.

Speaker 4 Ever.

Speaker 2 Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.

Speaker 4 Why would you have to change your pants to let us know?

Speaker 4 Who the pedophiles are?

Speaker 4 And why wouldn't you be wearing pants while you're researching this?

Speaker 4 And that was before the Trump administration took power. And by the way, they were still hyping the Epstein files after they took power.

Speaker 6 We have flight logs, we have information, names that will come out.

Speaker 8 President Trump has given a very strong directive, and that's going to be followed.

Speaker 4 So people can expect actual movement on this. It's not just empty promises.

Speaker 8 Oh, Donald Trump doesn't make empty promises. All right.

Speaker 4 Two of his wives and 10,000 unpaid contractors disagree.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 these are all people who work for Trump that set the expectation.

Speaker 4 And I think because of that, surprisingly, MAGA World, for the first time in memory, isn't just slavishly acquiescing to Trump's reality distortion field.

Speaker 9 Where did that whole case go? Where did all the files go?

Speaker 10 They just went nowhere.

Speaker 4 No one even believes that. This stinks.

Speaker 4 This just reeks.

Speaker 11 Something is horribly wrong here.

Speaker 12 Pam Bondi needs to be fired.

Speaker 4 Yes, Pam Bondi,

Speaker 4 the ringleader.

Speaker 4 She makes the decisions. The backlash wouldn't die.

Speaker 4 So Trump had to go back out and kill the backlash.

Speaker 4 perhaps even making it look like a suicide.

Speaker 4 So this weekend.

Speaker 4 You heard him, Jim!

Speaker 4 That's outrageous.

Speaker 4 So this weekend, Trump tried to reason with his base using their shared love language, long rambling truth social posts.

Speaker 13 In a social media post, the president asked his followers, what's going on with my boys and in some cases, gals.

Speaker 4 Let me stop you right there.

Speaker 4 Not to be all woke, but I believe they prefer the terms bros

Speaker 4 and hoes.

Speaker 4 But sorry, go on. You were explaining why it was time to move on from the Epstein case.

Speaker 14 Why are we giving publicity to files written by Obama, crooked Hillary, Comey, Brennan, and the losers and criminals of the Biden administration who conned the world with the Russia-Russia-Russia hoax, 51 intelligence agents, the laptop from hell, and more?

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 just to understand this, in a few months' time, we went from the Epstein files will expose the Democrats to the Epstein files were written by the Democrats and therefore can't be trusted.

Speaker 4 So let's move on. And then Trump brings up Hunter Biden's laptop as a reminder for all of us not to dwell on old conspiracy theories.

Speaker 4 What?

Speaker 4 So, problem solved? Right, MAGA World? Well, let's test it scientifically.

Speaker 6 How many of you are satisfied?

Speaker 6 You can clap.

Speaker 6 Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation?

Speaker 4 Clap.

Speaker 6 How many of you are not satisfied with the results of the investigation?

Speaker 4 Let me hear everyone who thinks sex trafficking should still be prosecuted say, hell yeah!

Speaker 4 Who wants to know more about a cabal of elite sex criminals? Just the ladies!

Speaker 4 So MAGA World is now in open revolt. You want to know how bad it's getting out there? They're literally burning their MAGA Army uniforms.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And you know there's just another guy standing next to them going,

Speaker 4 you know you got to flip them. That's your problem there.

Speaker 4 But clearly telling your base to just forget about Epstein isn't working. But if you know Trump, he can always just pivot to the classic Trump distraction.

Speaker 4 Throw something outlandish out there and watch the dogs chase the squirrel. I'm going to invade Greenland.
I'm going to bomb Iran. He's going to try something big.

Speaker 4 President Trump is reigniting his decades-long feud with comedian Rosie O'Donnell.

Speaker 4 I think we're going to need a bigger boat.

Speaker 4 That's not going to be enough.

Speaker 4 The president taking to his social media platform to write in part:

Speaker 4 I'm giving serious consideration to taking away her citizenship. She's a threat to humanity and should remain in the wonderful country of Ireland if they want her.

Speaker 4 Don't look at our inaction at prosecuting a sex trafficking ring to the rich and powerful. We must focus on the real issue: the denaturalization of the co-star of riding the bus with my sister.

Speaker 4 Yeah, MAGA is losing their shit right now. They cannot believe what they're seeing.
Trump is lying, dismissing reasonable concerns as bad faith whining, attacking anyone who disagrees.

Speaker 4 Well, as a resident of Blue America, can I just say right now to my red colleagues that my pronouns are: how does

Speaker 4 and my ass taste?

Speaker 4 Do you like it?

Speaker 4 The Trump that you're just experiencing now, to your deep disappointment and dismay, is the dude we've been dealing with the whole f ⁇ ing time.

Speaker 4 You just didn't realize it because he's been nice to you. Like when you've had a terrible tragedy.
My administration is doing everything in its power to help Texas. We gave them

Speaker 4 all the money, all the help that they can possibly use. We've given them max, we've maxed out and we'll continue to max out.

Speaker 4 Whenever you need, daddy's here.

Speaker 4 Because you're the child he wanted. But we're Eric.

Speaker 4 And this.

Speaker 4 Truly just a weird cheap shot.

Speaker 4 This is how we get treated. I don't think we should give California anything.
Did you mean? If I give California money, then every state that didn't vote for me will think I'm their president, too.

Speaker 4 That's not a precedent I want to set.

Speaker 4 Whether it's natural disasters, or tariff carve-outs, or immigration enforcement, or a million other issues, Trump's MAGA base always benefits from favorable treatment.

Speaker 4 Except now, they're finally understanding what it's like to be the target of his hostility.

Speaker 4 This administration has weaponized vindictive viva! Viva la revolución!

Speaker 4 what what's that what what's going on what hey viva la revolución

Speaker 4 forever

Speaker 4 elmo i i thought you were all right

Speaker 4 elmo was

Speaker 4 but listening to your show

Speaker 4 and the trenchant analysis of the many hypocrisies of the right

Speaker 4 have we radicalized Elmo to the populist left.

Speaker 4 Free Luigi!

Speaker 4 Free! Free Luigi!

Speaker 4 Free! Oh, there's more!

Speaker 4 Death to Mr. Noodle!

Speaker 4 Elmo, that is in no way what we're saying.

Speaker 4 Oh, dudging responsibility. Now you're just a comedian.
Quit both sides in it, you corporate whore.

Speaker 4 Elmo,

Speaker 4 it's just more nuanced than that. It's not black and white.

Speaker 4 Oh,

Speaker 4 that's right.

Speaker 4 Elmo doesn't understand.

Speaker 4 Elmo's stupid. Elmo's worldview is Manichaean in its simplicity.

Speaker 4 Good versus evil. Locke versus Hobbes.

Speaker 4 No

Speaker 4 shades of gray for Elmo.

Speaker 4 Elmo, I'm not

Speaker 4 really. Oh, Elmo? I mean,

Speaker 4 he's shouting free Luigi over here.

Speaker 4 And you're all like, oh, pointed to Elmo, don't tweet.

Speaker 4 Shut up.

Speaker 4 Elmo, I am not criticizing your worldview.

Speaker 4 This is merely an exploration of the motivations of Trump to not release the files and explaining to his base that the way they're feeling now is how Blue America has been feeling the whole time.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 we all know why Trump hasn't released the file.

Speaker 4 We all know who got to him.

Speaker 4 Elmo, I don't think I want to hear

Speaker 4 the answer to any of this. John, John, no, no, no.
No, hear me out, John.

Speaker 4 No, no, it's not. I'm just asking questions.
It's not what you think.

Speaker 4 All right, Elmo.

Speaker 4 What was it?

Speaker 4 John?

Speaker 4 It was the Jews. No, I almost!

Speaker 4 No!

Speaker 4 When we come back, Kyla Scanlon, don't go away!

Speaker 4 No!

Speaker 4 No!

Speaker 4 No!

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Speaker 15 Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. My guest tonight,

Speaker 4 she's an economic commentator. She's the author of In This Economy, How Money and Markets Really Work.
Please welcome to the program, Kyla Scanlon.

Speaker 4 First of all, I want to tell you how much I enjoyed the book, In This Economy. It is,

Speaker 4 I really feel like it's one of the first books about the economy by like an economist type person where every sentence didn't seem to end with the phrase, obviously dumbass. Like,

Speaker 4 it's not condescending at all. It's just really, it's so clear and accessible.

Speaker 6 Yeah, thank you. That's the goal.

Speaker 6 I think we really underserve people with economics education and we send people out into the world without understanding anything about economics, like, it's not required in a lot of schools.

Speaker 6 And so the book is really meant to just help people understand these things that you have to know to exist in the modern world.

Speaker 4 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 4 That was a much better way of putting it than I would.

Speaker 4 Because it is, in economics books, I find that they get so,

Speaker 4 you know, ultra-focused on certain, the curve of the Philip and the thing. And this is just, here's what's in your economy.
These are the ingredients.

Speaker 4 Here's how they work together. And it's not math, it's like probabilities.
This may do this, it may also do this. There's a nuance to it.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, it's people. Like, the economy is made up of people.
In the book, I say it's just people, peopling around, which is true.

Speaker 6 And so you have to, when you look at economics, you have to really consider how people act, and they're not always rational. And so it's important to incorporate that when you talk about it.

Speaker 4 Did you find,

Speaker 4 was the impetus for this when you were studying economics and when you're in those areas, did you find that they were at a remove?

Speaker 4 Is that what drew you to grounding this more in actual people and the results? Because economists talk about things. They are.

Speaker 4 They're sitting in sort of windowless rooms going, I'll raise this rate and I'll lower that rate, and it's like a bunch of people then get foreclosed on her. Like, well, that didn't work.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Is that what made you think of it that way?

Speaker 6 Well, I've been inspired by so many economists, and I think with this book, I felt like there was a bit of a gap in the market.

Speaker 6 Like, the book has 60 illustrations, it's meant to be fun, there's a lot of metaphors, a lot of poetry.

Speaker 6 And so, I just wanted to tie a thread to economics, to the rest of literature, to some elements of humanities, because it really is like the art of people. And so I wanted to try to do that.

Speaker 4 As you now look at the situation that we're in, so let's apply this. I want to talk to this new bill that's come out.
The beautiful bill. Apparently it's quite lovely.
I have heard.

Speaker 4 It has alliteration, it's large, it makes really

Speaker 4 sophisticated and erudite news people say big, beautiful bill, like they're ordering it friendly. He's like, I'll have a fribble.

Speaker 4 The thing that strikes me about this is

Speaker 4 whenever we talk about an economy being irresponsible in terms of spending, the go-to fall guy for that, the go-to scapegoat, are the poor.

Speaker 4 Is that the conventional wisdom in economics? You know, our deficit is out of control. You know where we could take it out of? Medicaid.

Speaker 4 Is austerity conventional wisdom wisdom when there's deficit spending?

Speaker 6 Yeah, so austerity is reducing the deficit by cutting spending or raising taxes.

Speaker 6 And so the common idea by cutting spending is that you'll go after the things that we spend a lot of money on, which is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security.

Speaker 6 And so that's the first thing that they went after. I don't think it's the smartest thing to go after, but it is a big part of what the government spends money on.

Speaker 6 And so I think it was first to go, which is sad because you shouldn't go after people. And you should think about raising taxes instead of cutting them.

Speaker 4 So that's, so why is it, so when I look at the budget and I go, so the Defense Department got a raise. Now their budget's going to be a trillion dollars.
We've created a brand new ICE unit.

Speaker 4 They get $150 billion. The Pentagon's never passed an audit.
All I see is senators and Republicans out on TV going, the big problem in this country is able-bodied people who still get Medicaid.

Speaker 4 But none of them go out and go, our big problem is we spend $500 billion a year on defense contractors and they can't pass an audit.

Speaker 4 Why is it that the go-to then is people?

Speaker 6 I mean, I think people are easier to cut from. Like, there's a lot of lobbying that goes on with the Defense Department.
There's a lot of companies that have big contracts.

Speaker 6 They're going to make sure that those contracts are insured and kept up to standard.

Speaker 6 And so it's much easier to go after things like Medicaid and Medicare because the everyday person can't really have a lobbyist, you know,

Speaker 4 fighting for them. It really is.
Like

Speaker 4 poor people need better lobbyists. Like that's so, it's so horrible to think about.
But I want to ask you, like, so that's why they do it.

Speaker 4 Do they have a case? In other words, is austerity, as you look at it through when they've balanced budgets like that, Is that real? Is there another way that we could ostensibly do this?

Speaker 4 Is that still believing in the last,

Speaker 4 what is it, 40 or 50 years of supply-side economics?

Speaker 6 I mean, I think some elements of supply-side economics are good, like investing in infrastructure, thinking about how we can expand the economy.

Speaker 6 Like, if you think about the way that we grow, one way to manage debt is to cut spending, but the other thing is to invest in productive things.

Speaker 6 Like, what if we built out high-speed rail or invested in households?

Speaker 6 Exactly, I know. And so that's really counterproductive.
It's super counterproductive to cut clean energy and then try to build out AI data centers, right?

Speaker 6 But that's the way I think out of the mess that we're in with the deficit is we have to invest in things that are truly productive.

Speaker 4 As someone who is observing this from its component parts, when you saw the strategy that they were going to use, this is their economic plan, whether it be, you know, through fiscal policy, he wants the Fed to lower the interest rates so that they, you know, servicing the debt will be less expensive.

Speaker 4 Do you, what is it that you see in there, Bill, that you go, that might be smart. And what is it that you see in there that go, man, we are going down the wrong road?

Speaker 6 I'm really worried about the cuts to clean energy and I'm worried about the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

Speaker 6 You know, over 700 rural hospitals are going to have to close and there's no other option for people who are going to those rural hospitals.

Speaker 6 Like they're going to have to drive hours to go and find care.

Speaker 6 And so I think it's a bill that cuts taxes for the very wealthy of the population who will benefit massively from this bill and then puts a lot of the rest of the population at risk.

Speaker 6 And if you think about an economy that's growth forward, I don't think that's how you would design a bill.

Speaker 4 Did you see a change?

Speaker 4 You know, what changed for me economically is watching in 2008 when the economy fell apart and the government stepped in and they poured billions and billions of dollars into this supply-side economy.

Speaker 4 They bailed out AIG, they bailed out all those other people, but they didn't do a demand-side stimulus where they helped people whose houses were being foreclosed.

Speaker 4 And I don't know that we've ever really recovered from that. But in the pandemic, there were some demand stimuluses that seemed really effective.

Speaker 4 Why didn't that take

Speaker 4 in terms of economic theory? Was it just inflation? Because every country had inflation. We even had it less.

Speaker 6 Yeah. I mean, a lot of economic theory shows that demand-side stimulus really helps during downturns.

Speaker 6 It's one of the best things to do is to help people out by giving them money, especially if they can't go to work, like how it was during the pandemic. Right.

Speaker 6 And so I think it is something that people believe in, but it's tough, it's a tough sell politically. Like, it's a tough narrative.

Speaker 4 So, this is a political problem, not an economic problem.

Speaker 6 Most economic problems are political problems at the end of the day.

Speaker 4 Yeah. That's and but they never say that.

Speaker 6 Why would they?

Speaker 4 No!

Speaker 4 Kyla, that's exactly right.

Speaker 4 What do they do with you in the meetings? Like, do you get to raise your hand and go like, you know, guys,

Speaker 4 this is a political problem, not an economic problem. If we're going to rebuild, so let's rebuild an economic model that maybe makes more sense.

Speaker 4 Because even the Democrats have bought into the supply side. Like, even the ACA, Obamacare, is kind of a supply side.
It's just subsidies and stimulus to insurance companies.

Speaker 4 How do we rebuild the theory of the economy on a response? Can you rebuild it on a responsible demand-side economic policy?

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot that we can do to invest in labor, to invest in jobs, to invest, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 That seems like the thing. It seems like over the last 50 years, capital is king and labor is devalued.
How do we rebalance that?

Speaker 6 Well, so Robert Lawrence has a really interesting paper from 2015.

Speaker 4 Read it?

Speaker 6 Yeah, where.

Speaker 4 I call it the Lawrence paper.

Speaker 6 But it's great. It talks about how we can use capital to help out labor.
Like, they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Speaker 6 Like, we can actually have money invest in the labor force, like, invest in training opportunities, give labor a voice at the table, invest in different employee stock option programs, give people a stake in the system that they're participating in beyond just wages.

Speaker 6 And so, I think that's going to have to be the next step for the economy: how do we make labor have a central voice in the conversation?

Speaker 6 Because I think a lot of the discontent that people feel right now is they feel like they're not able to be a part of the conversation because capital has been so dominant.

Speaker 4 And it seems like a political no-brainer.

Speaker 4 And I wonder why the Democrats have not been more forceful about, because I think we've learned this idea that if the government intervenes on the economy, that's socialism if they do it on behalf of people.

Speaker 4 But if they do it on behalf of corporations or subsidies or wealthy tax cuts,

Speaker 4 that's fair game because that's the free market. Maybe politically we need to understand that we don't have a free market.

Speaker 4 Would that work?

Speaker 6 I think so. I mean, I don't know how that'll go over.

Speaker 4 Would you join me in my crusade?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Would you do the illustrations for this new.

Speaker 4 It's not about getting rid of capitalism. It's about

Speaker 4 government being the backstop to the necessary collateral damage that occurs from capitalist process, no?

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, I think people really undervalue the role of government, and I think a lot of people are, and the government is inefficient and it's bloated in a lot of cases, but it's also created amazing things like Rhodes and DARPA and got us into space.

Speaker 6 And it was because the government paired with private markets, right? Like everything has to exist in the sense of symbiosis with each other. And I think we've kind of forgotten that.

Speaker 6 Like everything exists in a vessel vessel all by itself. And the more that we can connect the dots between private markets, between the government, the better off we'll be.

Speaker 4 Is there anyone out there that you see that's talking like that? Like Momdani has gotten a lot of momentum here in New York. And immediately everybody's like, you're a socialist.

Speaker 4 Like there is no in-between for anybody.

Speaker 4 Has he been putting forth a message? that it's a little different than what you're saying right now, but is that the type of thing that maybe can gain that momentum for labor?

Speaker 6 I think what's really nice about Momdani is he's thinking about things differently.

Speaker 6 Like, clearly, there has to be some sort of ideas pushed forward that are different than what we're doing now, just from purely a sentiment perspective.

Speaker 6 Like, people aren't feeling good, and how do we make them feel better by investing in them? I think one paper that I really liked, or article from Kate Arnoff on pool party progressivism.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I read that. Yeah,

Speaker 4 I call it

Speaker 4 the Arnoff paper. Yeah,

Speaker 6 But she talks about, you know, how do we give people dignity in the labor force? Like, how do we invest in them? How do we make sure that they feel a part of the structure?

Speaker 6 And sometimes that's beyond just like EV tax credits. Like, we have to think about investing in a person.

Speaker 6 And I think Mom Donnie has come forward and said, listen, what we're doing now isn't working for the everyday person. Here's how we can think about making things more affordable.

Speaker 6 And ideally, both political parties would build on top of that and learn that that's a message that works.

Speaker 4 I never understood why they conceded the idea of entitlements as though it's not investment. Human capital is the best capital.
I mean, for God's sakes, our economy is 70%

Speaker 4 consumer spending. Why don't we think about not a social safety net, but a stronger floor? It's not entitlement, it's investment.

Speaker 4 If you get production out of that human capital that's suffering, wouldn't that be a better use of it? Yes. Then subsidizing pharmaceutical companies that don't give us a break on drug prices.

Speaker 4 Right, yeah.

Speaker 6 Ideally, you would want technology and humans to coexist. You wouldn't want technology to be complementary.

Speaker 4 I'll do it, but you better go talk to technology. I don't think that's, I don't think they're, I don't think technology is interested.

Speaker 6 Well, and that's part of the problem too, is that some elements of the tech universe are working against what

Speaker 6 you and I are talking about. Peter Thiel.

Speaker 4 Peter Thiel, the guy asked him, he said,

Speaker 4 should humans exist? And he's like, let me think about that.

Speaker 6 But Peter Thiel understands the system really well. I don't know if you ever saw that email that he sent to Mark Zuckerberg.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I call it the Zuckerberg email.

Speaker 6 But he said that people are going to become disenchanted with capitalism if they feel like they don't have a stake in the system. He said this in an email.
Like, he gets it.

Speaker 6 He gets why people are upset. He gets that

Speaker 6 certain elements of the system aren't working. And I think for him, it's easier to replace the human race or something.

Speaker 4 We've got two choices here. Invest in people and make them feel more relevant in the world as it exists, or get rid of them.

Speaker 4 And he's going transhumanism. All right, well,

Speaker 4 here's the final thing that I think maybe this might be helpful. And the way that you explain the economy in this book is what made me think of this.
You've deconstructed it to its component parts.

Speaker 4 And it's something that I haven't seen done like in the healthcare economy. Like you can get a bill where it's $600 for an Advil, but it's never the ingredient list of why.

Speaker 4 You don't really have a sense of where our money goes in this system.

Speaker 4 Would there be, is that a use for like AI

Speaker 4 to give

Speaker 4 the rest of us a better understanding of the component parts of what things cost?

Speaker 4 So that we can see more clearly how labor needs to be

Speaker 4 better compensated. You can't call people essential workers and then throw them off Medicaid.
Like, that doesn't make any sense. Right.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, trust is one of the most expensive things in the world, and it's one of the scarcest things that we have right now.

Speaker 6 And I think the more information that you can give people about where their money is going and how it's being spent and their role in the economy, the more trust that they'll have in the institutions and that the institutions are properly serving them.

Speaker 6 Right now, it doesn't feel that way because nobody really knows what's going on at all, right?

Speaker 6 And so I think the more that we can explain to people how how things work, the easier it'll be to help move things forward rather than backwards.

Speaker 4 And I think it's clear that we don't know purposefully, that the obfuscation of how this system works is purposefully kept from us.

Speaker 4 The ingredient list that would allow us better insight into how we're being screwed is it's not happenstance.

Speaker 4 They do it on purpose. But you remain optimistic with the possibilities.

Speaker 6 I mean, I think that's all you can do is be optimistic. When you lose hope what do you do?

Speaker 4 You end up looking like this.

Speaker 4 Look what hope looks like.

Speaker 4 That's over there. Hope and now loss.

Speaker 4 I'm so pleased that you joined us on the show.

Speaker 4 I'm telling you man this is essential reading for anyone out there who wants to have a basic understanding of the economy that you're dealing with so that you can make better informed decisions on how you want the economy to be in the

Speaker 4 Kyla, thank you so much for being with us. I really appreciate it.
Hope we get a chance to talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 12 This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.

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Speaker 12 All right, and that's our show for tonight.

Speaker 4 But before we go, we're going to check in with your host for the rest of the week, Jordan Glepper, Jordan!

Speaker 4 Jordan, what do you got this?

Speaker 9 Oh, sorry, sorry, John. No, no Jordan here.
It's me, part bird, part plane, all Superman.

Speaker 4 Come on, Jordan. That's

Speaker 9 Jordan. You're going to stick with Jordan? Jordan? Jordan sounds like some kind of a jerk-off news reporter.
No, no, no, no, no. Once again, clearly, I'm all Superman.

Speaker 4 What brings you here, Superman?

Speaker 4 Oh, sorry, John.

Speaker 9 Sorry, John. No, surprise.

Speaker 4 No Superman here, John.

Speaker 9 It's me, Jerkoff News reporter Jordan Clepper.

Speaker 9 I would say,

Speaker 9 pretty cool that Superman swung on through there. I must have just missed him.

Speaker 4 You're still wearing the Superman underoos, Jordan. You're still wearing the suit.
You're excited about the movie. It's fine.
Tell us what you thought about it.

Speaker 9 Lilo and Stitch? I loved it every second.

Speaker 4 The Superman movie, Jordan. There's a Superman movie?

Speaker 9 No No way. Are Lilo and Stitch gonna be in it? Because I will see it 110%.

Speaker 4 Join and clapper, everybody. Here it is, you moment.

Speaker 17 U.S.

Speaker 17 President Donald Trump was booed by some of the fans, and then after presenting the trophy, some might feel as though he kind of outstayed his welcome on the stage, sticking around to make sure he was in all of the photos.

Speaker 18 I knew he was going to be here, but I didn't know he was going to be

Speaker 18 on the stand where we left the trophy, so I was a bit confused.

Speaker 11 explore more shows from the daily show podcast universe by searching the daily show wherever you get your podcasts watch the daily show weeknights at 11 10 central on comedy central and stream full episodes anytime on fair amount plus

Speaker 12 this has been a comedy central podcast

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