The Wellness Institute
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Speaker 9 My name is Shay.
Speaker 10 I work as a clinical social worker and I do
Speaker 12 telehealth therapy with adults.
Speaker 13 I tend to work with people who have trauma that they want to address and trying to heal from that, people who have addictions.
Speaker 18 And I love to work with middle-aged women who are going through perimenopause.
Speaker 19 I'm Jane Marie and this is the dream.
Speaker 20 Today we're talking to one of you, one of our listeners.
Speaker 21 Shay called our tip line 323-248-1488 after attending an online course a few months ago that really rubbed her the wrong way. Just like super sketchy.
Speaker 19 So sketchy in fact that I didn't even finish listening to the message before calling Shay and asking for an interview.
Speaker 19 As a therapist, Shay needed to take this class to earn continuing education credits.
Speaker 29 In the state of Ohio, for the social work board, which is the CSW-MFT board or counselor, social work, marriage, and family therapist board of Ohio, you have to have 30 CEUs every two years.
Speaker 15 Those are what we have to have in order to continue to have our license.
Speaker 30 And
Speaker 29 this training that I went to offered more than that, actually.
Speaker 25 And that's a big deal because one, you know, that the board has signed off and said, hey, this is a legitimate training.
Speaker 18 You're going to learn something from it.
Speaker 35 And you're going to get this credit that then you can say, hey, I've done this thing.
Speaker 37 I've ticked these boxes.
Speaker 35 That is different than certification.
Speaker 38 That's continuing Ed.
Speaker 39 That's what you need to maintain your license for the state.
Speaker 28 Every state is different.
Speaker 16 Certification is, hey, we're selling a certification. And if you take this course and do these things, we're going to give you this pretty little thing that says you're certified by us in this.
Speaker 43 Right.
Speaker 40 Anybody can sell a certification.
Speaker 45 It's just the thing that you get that might make you feel more legitimate or might you might think it makes your clients think you're more legitimate.
Speaker 20 So certification versus continuing education, two different things.
Speaker 49 Certification means you've taken some classes.
Speaker 50 Continuing Ed means you've taken the correct class that the licensing board believes helps you further your education and you get to keep your license, basically.
Speaker 52 Absolutely. Okay.
Speaker 9 So
Speaker 50 go on.
Speaker 53 So you are looking for 30 CEUs a year.
Speaker 44 Yeah.
Speaker 28 And I wasn't even hunting for the CEUs at this point.
Speaker 25 I mean, I've been working in mental health since 2003.
Speaker 55 I think I graduated in 2010, licensed since 2012.
Speaker 46 And initially, when I started, just to go back for a second, when I started in mental health, I didn't want to be a therapist.
Speaker 57 That wasn't my goal.
Speaker 40 I was a social worker.
Speaker 14 I liked helping people in the community.
Speaker 46 I loved that work.
Speaker 56 And that's why I went back and got my master's degree in social work.
Speaker 46 At this stage of my life, I am a therapist and I love it. And I'm glad I got here.
Speaker 10 This is what I need in this stage of my life.
Speaker 47 And I feel really competent and good where I am.
Speaker 46 But that's not where I started.
Speaker 27 So I've done CEUs for
Speaker 16 15 years.
Speaker 24 I don't.
Speaker 34 worry about getting them.
Speaker 10 That's easy. I want to get continuing into something that's interesting, that I can build my skill set.
Speaker 60 So I
Speaker 10 recently took a one-hour, one of those sort of lunch and learn courses with somebody who works at the same place I work.
Speaker 35 And he does hypnotherapy.
Speaker 29 He also does EMDR, and he seems like a really smart, put together, grounded person.
Speaker 10 And he just gave a quick one hour, this is what hypnotherapy is. This is how I use it.
Speaker 39 And that really made me interested.
Speaker 15 So we get $1,200-ish dollars a year to pay for CEUs.
Speaker 46 So I thought, well, let me see what I can find in hypnotherapy.
Speaker 54 Who gives you the $1,200?
Speaker 64 Work.
Speaker 14 So we could use that if we wanted to go somewhere and spend it on mostly hotel and travel and then go to a $100 conference in another state.
Speaker 55 But I was like, this would be really cool to use in a junction like with my EMDR to help people with trauma.
Speaker 38 So I found this training and it's through the Wellness Institute and it was affordable.
Speaker 46 It was almost almost the exact same price as the money I get for the year.
Speaker 42 And it's online.
Speaker 25 So I didn't have to go anywhere.
Speaker 10 So that would also make that doable.
Speaker 41 So I looked into it and it seemed legitimate.
Speaker 22 What is the Wellness Institute?
Speaker 47 I don't know.
Speaker 10 It's an institute online.
Speaker 34 I mean, when you go to their website, it looks very legitimate.
Speaker 10 They've got a whole bunch of names up there that they're connected with and associated with.
Speaker 65 It looks very legitimate.
Speaker 10 I googled it, making sure this is legitimate.
Speaker 46 I don't normally take courses that are online through things I've never heard of before.
Speaker 64 And
Speaker 59 everything seemed fine.
Speaker 25 I couldn't find anything saying, like I'm Googling, like, is Wellness Institute a scam?
Speaker 10 Nothing comes up.
Speaker 6 Well, plus the licensing board said it's fine, right?
Speaker 10 Not only the licensing board, so the Ohio Licensing Board and the ASWB, which is the National Social Work Board, they're the ones that actually do all the testing.
Speaker 40 And every state but California uses them for your testing testing to say, yes, this person took the test and they have the competency to be a social worker.
Speaker 25 And then, along with what other else your state tells you you have to do.
Speaker 10 This way that it works in Ohio is that if the ASWB approves it, Ohio automatically approves it, no questions asked.
Speaker 6 Wow.
Speaker 35 But not only were they approved by the ASWB, they were also approved by Ohio separately. So it double legit.
Speaker 6 So you didn't feel like you had to like go down a crazy internet rabbit hole in the beginning to find out if they were legitimate.
Speaker 35 Yes.
Speaker 18 And I talked to a colleague who had done this exact training and they recommended it.
Speaker 6 So you had personal recommendation, institutional recommendation.
Speaker 72 Yeah.
Speaker 49 So tell me what the training was going to be.
Speaker 50 What was it supposed to look like?
Speaker 10 So the training was supposed to be a six-day, quote-unquote, intensive, which I don't usually hear that word, but six days of training on this skill so that by the time you're done after the six days, you have practiced it.
Speaker 10 It was supposed to be experiential, which means we practice on each other.
Speaker 15 That's how EMDR training was.
Speaker 16 That didn't seem concerning to me.
Speaker 74 Six days makes sense.
Speaker 10 You need a lot of time to learn a new skill and practice it.
Speaker 16 So that also made sense to me.
Speaker 26 So I just thought, okay, great.
Speaker 10 This is like going to be really like intense in terms of we're really going to just spend this time focused on this thing and come out of it feeling like we have enough skill to be able to get started.
Speaker 55 Right.
Speaker 2 And was it full days?
Speaker 16 Well, yeah.
Speaker 75 So when I signed up for it, I don't remember it telling a schedule.
Speaker 10 It just said six days.
Speaker 58 And I thought, as any other training I've ever done in my entire career, those would be eight-hour days.
Speaker 76 And then two days before the training started, I believe it was two days, we got an email with the itinerary.
Speaker 36 But it said
Speaker 10 7.45 AM to 7.45 PM, I believe was the first day.
Speaker 6 What?
Speaker 36 Yes, 12-hour training days.
Speaker 67 So I thought immediately, my first thought when I got that email was, this is not okay.
Speaker 52 This is culty.
Speaker 11 Something's wrong.
Speaker 58 Because no training ever is that many hours a day, ever.
Speaker 31 Just ask anyone in any kind of licensing.
Speaker 57 That's just not how this goes
Speaker 37 and so i'm looking at this going okay six 12 hour days my thought was they must be unhealthy like this organization must be unhealthy yeah because anyone in the mental health field knows how important self-care is right and you can't do self-care if you have six 12-hour days in a row and to be completely fair some of the days might have been as low as 10 hours but nothing under that
Speaker 54 This feels like quite a commitment.
Speaker 80 10 hours a day minimum for six days.
Speaker 6 That is a lot of time it is a lot of time so i'm and how many credits were you supposed to be getting for that amount so i thought 30 but it turns out that's 60 but that's unheard of it's just unheard of i've never well it's unnecessary if you only need 30 a year right it's just weird so the total hours scheduled on the itinerary were 60.25 hours
Speaker 10 The total hours that we were in class, to my very best estimate, not including the breaks, was 46.75 hours.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 54 And which is more reasonable, but not what they promised.
Speaker 72 Yeah.
Speaker 46 When I first saw the itinerary, I thought, red flag, that was my first real red flag.
Speaker 63 This does not seem right.
Speaker 37 At minimum, this is bad self-care.
Speaker 40 But what does that say about the people running this training?
Speaker 6 Right.
Speaker 60 So
Speaker 52 I sort of prepare myself for this might not be what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 10 And I go in and immediately the first day, I'm just, this is not okay.
Speaker 49 Tell me how that went.
Speaker 6 So you log on to like the Zoom call or whatever.
Speaker 10 The first day was educational in terms of it was traditional like lecture.
Speaker 74 This person, her name's Judy, she's introducing us to what we're going to do, what to expect, and starts to kind of go through the curriculum and explaining what heart-centered hypnotherapy is, which
Speaker 75 there was some explanation of heart-centered hypnotherapy being different than hypnotherapy that they went over.
Speaker 44 I
Speaker 75 didn't see any meaningful difference. Okay.
Speaker 28 But I think that's like their trademark or brand.
Speaker 10 It must be, I think, because that's, it seemed to be this is special and different because it's heart-centered hypnotherapy, not just hypnotherapy.
Speaker 60 Okay.
Speaker 41 So the thing about Judy, though, is she's not licensed in any way of anything.
Speaker 35 She's a life coach.
Speaker 51 I see where this is going.
Speaker 61 Yeah.
Speaker 33 So here's a woman, woman, lovely woman, very kind woman, who is a life coach who is teaching licensed individuals.
Speaker 40 Most people were clinically licensed in some sort of therapy.
Speaker 65 And most of them already knew, ironically, EMDR.
Speaker 10 So they are not only licensed, but they're already competent in some trauma modality. And a lot of people, it was interesting, same reason as me, they thought they could use this in conjunction with
Speaker 17 EMDR or the work they already do.
Speaker 69 And hypnotherapy, just like, just to make clear to the audience, we're not shit talking that modality.
Speaker 50 Like, I've been hypnotized a couple of times, and I think it's helped.
Speaker 6 Um,
Speaker 6 like for when I was a cigarette smoker, yeah, or fear of flying, I've done it for that.
Speaker 6 Exactly, it's totally legitimate therapy, absolutely, but it doesn't sound like you were getting that sort of totally legitimate training, right?
Speaker 31 The training was
Speaker 62 about how to do it their way,
Speaker 59 but as it went on, it became about following a specific person.
Speaker 67 So they've got this lady named Diane Zimberhoff.
Speaker 42 And first I assumed that that was going to be who was the teacher.
Speaker 10 But when she wasn't the teacher, that's another reason that I was immediately red flagged by the itinerary.
Speaker 56 It on the itinerary, it said, it had a picture of Diane.
Speaker 82 Right.
Speaker 63 And in a little oval, and it says LMFT, which is her licensing.
Speaker 10 And then it says
Speaker 39 founder of the institution.
Speaker 15 And so i'm thinking oh this is a little weird too but okay whatever so what's weird about that what was weird to me about it was it felt very like
Speaker 10 uh here's a person that we need to immediately recognize as
Speaker 6 our leader our leader
Speaker 16 so this person named judy is the teacher And Judy is going through this curriculum that's all written by Diane.
Speaker 63 100% written by Diane.
Speaker 58 That was a little bit weird to me that all of the curriculum was written by Diane.
Speaker 41 So six days worth of curriculum.
Speaker 63 And it covered DID, which is what used to be known as multiple personality disorder.
Speaker 6 Oh.
Speaker 30 It covered treating addiction,
Speaker 33 sexual abuse, doing hypnotherapy in children,
Speaker 52 personality disorders, oh, eating disorders, all this stuff.
Speaker 6 All from one person's mind.
Speaker 63 All from one person's mind, and all taught by a non-licensed life coach whose background is in astrology.
Speaker 62 And I'm not, I'm not shitting on astrology.
Speaker 31 I'm just saying it doesn't have anything to do with teaching clinical therapy.
Speaker 26 Right.
Speaker 6 That's the problem.
Speaker 48 And this cost your organization $1,200.
Speaker 69 Yes.
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Speaker 6 Okay, so you get in there and you're in the first day.
Speaker 50 Is there like anything that happens in the instruction where you're also like, wait, this is bullshit?
Speaker 31 Yeah.
Speaker 10 And the first day kind of goes, okay, it's mostly lecture.
Speaker 83 There are red flags, but nothing is
Speaker 79 super insane the first day.
Speaker 6 Then, which implies that it's going to get there.
Speaker 41 But yeah, you know, and there were things I was taking notes as we went because I thought, boy, this is just so weird.
Speaker 39 So I took notes to try to immediately make sure that I didn't gaslight myself into starting to fall for anything funky. Like I was just immediately vigilant to this is not right.
Speaker 63 Something smells off here.
Speaker 42 So then the second day we do the experiential.
Speaker 44 This is where it gets, I think, messed up.
Speaker 10 So they wanted us to do hypnotherapy, which I'm really glad that you've done hypnotherapy because, and I have relatives who've done it for smoking too and had lots of success with it.
Speaker 10 So I think it's really cool.
Speaker 61 And I want to be able to help people like that.
Speaker 41 They wanted us to do at least, this is required in our hypnotherapy
Speaker 28 that we did with each other, that we practice, two age regressions.
Speaker 6 No.
Speaker 6 Two.
Speaker 33 And they really, really, really encouraged us strongly to hit something while we were in our hypnosis.
Speaker 65 So you would start like laying down with,
Speaker 10 you had to bring all these things in with you,
Speaker 46 some ice or some heat for sensory, for grounding. You had to, you could bring in a face mask if you wanted.
Speaker 69 Wait, you mean you needed to be age regressed?
Speaker 35 Me, Shay, yes.
Speaker 18 And the person
Speaker 48 administering this to someone who's a volunteer.
Speaker 54 It's you. It's me.
Speaker 38 You're the subject.
Speaker 39 I'm the subject.
Speaker 10 And I had to also administer it to one of the other class members.
Speaker 50 Can you talk to me a little bit about what the dangers could be there?
Speaker 6 I feel like I have a lot of understanding just because I'm used to watch like, you know, a lot of talk shows
Speaker 70 where this would,
Speaker 70 and I grew up during like the satanic panic and like everyone's, you know, parents were molesting them, all, you know, all of this stuff that happened through these sorts of, you know, iffy practices.
Speaker 10 And Judy at one point referenced, she didn't say satanic panic, she referenced as an example that somebody might come to us who has been abused in a satanic ritual and we might need to treat that.
Speaker 26 She talked about it as if it was a legit problem
Speaker 64 that
Speaker 42 happens not all the time, but like that happens.
Speaker 88 My next guest was you and worshiping the devil, participated in human sacrifices, rituals, and cannibalism. She says her family has been involved in rituals for for generations.
Speaker 88 She is currently in extensive therapy, suffers from multiple personality disorder, meaning she's blocked out many of the terrifying and painful memories of her childhood.
Speaker 88 Meet Rachel, who is also in disguise to protect her identity. So when you were brought up in this kind of evil-ness, did you just think it was normal?
Speaker 88 I've blocked out a lot of the memories I had because of my multiple personality disorder. But yes, I mean, it's like if you go off with something, you think it's normal.
Speaker 88 There would be rituals in which babies would be sacrificed and you would have to.
Speaker 6 What are the dangers of age regression and hypnotherapy?
Speaker 61 The dangers of age regression hypnotherapy are that you could create and implant false memories.
Speaker 61 Right.
Speaker 36 And then you think something happened to you that didn't.
Speaker 44 And now you've got a new narrative about who you are and what happened in your life that could really disrupt how you see yourself and how you see your relationships.
Speaker 48 And there's been plenty of evidence of that happening, correct?
Speaker 35 Yes.
Speaker 72 And I couldn't quit.
Speaker 49 Like famous cases.
Speaker 42 Yes.
Speaker 60 Teal Swan
Speaker 70 is all I could think about.
Speaker 63 And again, if you know the history of Teal Swan, which I think you do.
Speaker 19 Now, if this is your first time hearing of Teal Swan, boy are you in for a ride.
Speaker 90 As I said in a previous episode, regression therapy has been the cornerstone of healing from past trauma for thousands of years because it works.
Speaker 90 I myself created one such process that enables people to regress back to resolve trauma which is unhealed within the physical, emotional, and mental embodiment.
Speaker 19 There's plenty of Teal's motivational talks available on YouTube, but I recommend checking out the documentary about her on Hulu called The Deep End, which follows Teal and her spiritual teachings and is just pure chaos involving past life regression and a complicated polyamory thread.
Speaker 69 Anyway, go check that out.
Speaker 49 So Che clocks this right away in the training.
Speaker 80 Like, this is cuckoo banana stuff right off the top.
Speaker 42 So not only these age regressions, which we had to just
Speaker 62 sort of come up with in our hypnotherapy, but
Speaker 76 as the client, right, and I'm in the role of the client, we also were encouraged then to take out our feelings by taking some object.
Speaker 10 We could bring a spatula or I guess you could take like a styrofoam pool noodle, something like that, and hit like a pillow or a couch or the floor with that.
Speaker 71 While you're hypnotized or just for fun?
Speaker 47 While you're hypnotized.
Speaker 6 No.
Speaker 47 I know.
Speaker 51 You should be fairly relaxed.
Speaker 2 Yeah.
Speaker 2 And not paralyzed, but.
Speaker 69 you know, the world kind of melts away and you're focused on what you're there to address.
Speaker 48 It's not like a magic show where they hypnotize people go be silly on stage.
Speaker 51 But that's how she was treating it.
Speaker 38 Well, they gave us a list of things that were tells to the clinician that somebody was actively in hypnosis.
Speaker 10 And they said you only had to have one of those tells, one of those signs for the person to be hypnotized. And one of the signs was they looked relaxed.
Speaker 52 They were essentially saying, if the person looks relaxed, they're hypnotized.
Speaker 47 You're good to go.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 41 I don't know how else to say it.
Speaker 28 It was just bizarre.
Speaker 53 When you were getting your age regression hypnosis, how did you perform that?
Speaker 89 I mean, did you, were you?
Speaker 56 Acting.
Speaker 18 I was acting.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 20 I mean, good.
Speaker 6 I'm glad.
Speaker 42 I'm going to tell you the signs of hypnosis that they gave us very quickly.
Speaker 67 There are nine of them.
Speaker 52 One, relaxation, two, breathing, three, change of body temperature. Four, power of suggestion.
Speaker 83 five rapid eye movement REM
Speaker 16 six hypnotic sigh the person may take a deep involuntary sigh emotional response is seven eight is sensual experience and nine is eye lacmentation which means their eyes may look red and puffy after awaking from a trance state
Speaker 10 back up one sensual something sensual experience many people actually experience being not sensory but sensual sensual being somewhere else They may, quote, see the scenery, quote, feel the sunshine, quote, smell the fresh air, or quote, hear the waves of the ocean.
Speaker 51 Can't that word be replaced with sensory?
Speaker 9 I'm sorry. Yeah.
Speaker 66
What? Of course. Okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 71 But sensual has a connotation.
Speaker 6 Anyways, I know.
Speaker 6 This wasn't written by a therapist.
Speaker 66 No.
Speaker 89 Well, I mean, it was.
Speaker 20 It was written by Diane Zimmerhoff.
Speaker 46 But I can't find any proof that Diane was ever a licensed therapist.
Speaker 61 Okay.
Speaker 77 So I looked Diane up everywhere.
Speaker 10 They told us that she had lived, every state, because every state has an open licensing lookup website.
Speaker 77 And I couldn't find her listed anywhere.
Speaker 16 And it would show an inactive license or an expired license if you were licensed in the past.
Speaker 78 I could find nothing.
Speaker 78 So either she was never licensed and they were lying about her being an LMFT, or maybe for some fluke, it was so
Speaker 10 long in the past, like maybe it was in the 70s that it's not showing up on the website.
Speaker 39 Or maybe it was in a state that I didn't know that she ever was in.
Speaker 22 Or maybe she doesn't exist.
Speaker 64 Oh, she's on YouTube.
Speaker 20
Oh, okay. Okay.
Okay.
Speaker 6 Never mind.
Speaker 6 So
Speaker 40 they had us go through this process where we each took turns being the client and the clinician.
Speaker 58 And then they had an intern in the quote-unquote room, the online room with us.
Speaker 67 We were in breakout sessions on Zoom.
Speaker 10 And the intern, they made it very clear, was unpaid and they were giving their time.
Speaker 38 And we should all be very you know thankful to them for doing that and they were there to help us and guide us and and you know through our process is this intern participation normal i don't think so okay
Speaker 45 so
Speaker 16 talk me through like what you were doing in this session where you were acting yeah so you have a script that you're reading and it's it's a standard script you're not supposed to stray from it at all you read this script to the person and so the person's reading the script to me.
Speaker 10 Now I have the script, so I know what the script says.
Speaker 59 I've
Speaker 10 read the script before we do this because I'm going to have to do it next to them.
Speaker 10 And so I'm laying down with my eyes closed and they're reading the script and it's trying to hypnotize me. You know, you're getting sleepy and sleepy and all that good stuff.
Speaker 78 And so then I just, you know, you're in your mind sorting through what can I give them as an age regression because you have to, it's a requirement, right?
Speaker 46 So, you know, I'm thinking, what do I do?
Speaker 82 What I do. And I remember what I came up with the first time.
Speaker 76 We did it twice.
Speaker 10 The second time they had us do it, it was supposed to be a mind-body experience.
Speaker 39 So we had to bring in something related to our body and how we felt.
Speaker 78 And at the time, I had whooping cough.
Speaker 39 And I, yeah, I had whooping cough.
Speaker 46 And so my side, my ribs hurt really bad.
Speaker 10 So I said that was going to be the thing I would use.
Speaker 39 They wanted me to go back and do an age regression connected to that.
Speaker 10 You can see how ridiculous this sounds.
Speaker 48 Let's go back to the first time you had whooping cough.
Speaker 79 Not even the first time.
Speaker 74 And again, some of this stuff is legitimate.
Speaker 10 You use versions of this in EMDR, for example, but it's like they take something legitimate and they're bastardizing it to be something weird.
Speaker 39 So they wanted to go back to feeling that feeling in my ribs.
Speaker 58 So, okay, great.
Speaker 56 One time I fell out of a tree and knocked the air out of my lungs.
Speaker 43 Okay, cool.
Speaker 15 So, and where were you? Well, I was at the park with my brothers.
Speaker 39 Okay,
Speaker 35 what do you need to say?
Speaker 75 You know, what feelings do you need to get out about that uh nothing i shouldn't have been in the tree yeah you know and what do you need to say to your brothers and i got kind of annoyed and i said nothing they were really helpful and supportive of me and took care of me while i got my breath back right and then you have to do it again well what's another
Speaker 64 so you're just stretching for these like experiences um to try to fulfill this requirement and no way shape or form was i hypnotized i don't understand so what i was left with this frustration, now I have no idea what hypnotherapy is.
Speaker 49 And you have to do the same thing to someone else.
Speaker 44 Yeah.
Speaker 42 And the second time that I did it, the person that I had to do it with, and we didn't choose partners or anything.
Speaker 10 They were given to us. She had already volunteered to be the person to do it with Judy, the instructor, just the first time as a demonstration to the class.
Speaker 58 And then we had done our first one the night before. So this is her third time.
Speaker 56 So she's tired.
Speaker 39 And again, no surprise.
Speaker 10 They're having us do this part at the very end of the night, last thing of the day.
Speaker 39 And Judy said that it was because we would be more open.
Speaker 48 If you were tired? Yes.
Speaker 45 We are. If they knew what they were doing.
Speaker 78 If you go back to the bite model, all of it was in there.
Speaker 62 So this girl, to her great credit, she says, my problem is that I don't really want to do this and I feel resistant.
Speaker 31 And so I'm forcing forcing this woman to
Speaker 10 engage in hypnotherapy when she actively says she doesn't want to, which would be a no-no in any clinical setting, right?
Speaker 63 1000%.
Speaker 48 Like you're not going to try to hypnotize someone who's resisting.
Speaker 70 Right.
Speaker 10 And using that as the reason to hypnotize them.
Speaker 16 I mean, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 82 You know, acting like this is perfectly normal.
Speaker 61 I feel like I'm like looking through Alice in Wonderland, looking through the looking glass.
Speaker 53 I'm getting a feeling that these people are like playing,
Speaker 53 like they're having fun with their toys.
Speaker 70 I don't know what they were doing.
Speaker 64 And
Speaker 10 so we had to watch these videos
Speaker 39 of this being demonstrated. One of the videos, I'm going to tell you why this is so bizarre.
Speaker 10 One of the videos was shown to us.
Speaker 63 It was from 1993.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 63 They told us this, 1993.
Speaker 75 And it was a woman named Rose.
Speaker 10 Hypnotherapy was being done on her by Diane. All the videos were Diane videos.
Speaker 42 And this person named Rose was saying that she had an abortion.
Speaker 10 And she was feeling a lot of feelings about that.
Speaker 52 And Diane told her to tell the fetus,
Speaker 66 sorry for killing it, quote, unquote.
Speaker 10 Can you tell him you're sorry for killing him?
Speaker 57 And first of all, not only is that incredibly inappropriate for a thousand reasons, no trigger warning.
Speaker 31 And statistically, there had to be at least a few women in this class who have had pregnancy loss.
Speaker 43 Right.
Speaker 6 Right.
Speaker 10 No one said, hey, we're going to traumatize you guys by telling a lady to apologize to her dead fetus in case anybody needs to take care of themselves, right?
Speaker 43 Right.
Speaker 59 And the practitioner, which was Diane, said, quote, it ended up taking a life, your own child's life.
Speaker 6 Oh my God.
Speaker 5 Yeah.
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Speaker 9 It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast.
Speaker 6 And if your kids are anything like mine, that wish list is getting pretty long. Let's be honest.
Speaker 20 Some of the things on that list make us stop and think, like a smartphone.
Speaker 6 Do they actually need all that stuff to stare at?
Speaker 53 Well, no, they don't.
Speaker 51 Just get them a gab.
Speaker 53 I got one for my kid. It has tracking, which I only look at every once in a while because I don't like to spy on her.
Speaker 6 It has a phone number, very helpful.
Speaker 51 And it has a list of people you can text that I approve.
Speaker 55 Plus, I can spy on the text, which I don't do.
Speaker 6 Haven't had to yet.
Speaker 20 But if something weird comes in on one of those texts, I do get a notification. And then I look and it's just some dumb YouTube makeup video that the Gab phone doesn't let you watch.
Speaker 20 So win, win, win, win, win, win.
Speaker 6 I love it.
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Speaker 53 Visit gab.com/slash the dream and use code the dream for a special holiday offer.
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Speaker 55 Gab, tech in steps.
Speaker 53 Independence for them, peace of mind mind for you.
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Speaker 70 Well, so this goes awry pretty quickly, it sounds like.
Speaker 34 Yeah.
Speaker 20 I know you felt Kalty vibes in the beginning, but how does your understanding of this evolve?
Speaker 31 My understanding of this is this is not healthy.
Speaker 67 It is dysfunctional.
Speaker 10 And I now just have to get through it.
Speaker 10 I have to spend my energy regulating myself to get through this.
Speaker 39 And I start, as the time went on, I just started taking notes
Speaker 61 because so many fucked up things were happening.
Speaker 55 When was this?
Speaker 39 The beginning of May.
Speaker 54
Oh, this year. So this autumn.
This all happened like this year.
Speaker 2 Yeah.
Speaker 6
Very fresh. Yeah.
Very fresh.
Speaker 89 Yeah.
Speaker 66 Now,
Speaker 31 okay.
Speaker 65 The Wellness Institute offers a trim life diet program.
Speaker 38 And here's why I'm concerned is one, it's the antithesis to best practices of eating disorders, which they claim to treat.
Speaker 75 And
Speaker 63 the facilitator focused on weight loss throughout the training.
Speaker 83 At one point, she used an example of self-discipline, of the fact that she might want to eat a handful of nuts and decide that that's too many and she doesn't really need those and just eat one nut.
Speaker 37 What? Talk about an eating disorder.
Speaker 6 Yeah.
Speaker 22 Well, also, why are you talking about this in here?
Speaker 2 Go have your nut.
Speaker 42 She thinks that's a healthy example of self-discipline.
Speaker 6 But you're in a hypnotherapy class.
Speaker 78 Yeah, I know.
Speaker 89 Why do you need to hear about her weird self-discipline or anything?
Speaker 22 Like, you're not in a self-discipline class.
Speaker 77 I don't know.
Speaker 63 So at the end, this day six was mostly spent trying to sell us on going into the internship.
Speaker 82 And part of that was also that we could buy into the Trim Life program at a discount because we've completed the six-day course.
Speaker 6 MLM?
Speaker 40 I think so.
Speaker 82 Okay.
Speaker 25 And one of their pieces of literature that they gave us in the beginning actually has a picture of a pyramid on the front.
Speaker 12 It's labeled PTI and Mentor Brochure.
Speaker 79 And it says the Wellness Institute course catalog.
Speaker 61 And it has a five-layer pyramid, literally a pyramid, not a triangle, a pyramid.
Speaker 65 And the bottom layer is a six-day certification course.
Speaker 31 So that's what we did.
Speaker 37 And layer two is the internship, year one, new skills, more confidence.
Speaker 63 A year?
Speaker 66 Yeah.
Speaker 80 Oh, absolutely not with these people.
Speaker 61 Hold on.
Speaker 28 Layer three is the internship year two.
Speaker 65 Proficiency in hypnotherapy.
Speaker 76 So three years in, you can be proficient, or I guess two years plus a six-day certification course, you can finally be proficient.
Speaker 76 Layer four is PTI leadership psychodrama skills.
Speaker 62 And layer five is mentors.
Speaker 42 And that says teachers.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 22 How much does all of this cost you?
Speaker 10 Oh, well, to do the internship for a discount, which is going to be expiring on May 16th. And this email was on May 12th.
Speaker 81 Four days. You have four days to decide.
Speaker 56 Four days to decide.
Speaker 37 $500 deposit. and then $250 per month for 17 months.
Speaker 39 And now all of a sudden, even though we only had till May 6th to decide, now they can do a no interest payment plan.
Speaker 49 So you're signing like a contract.
Speaker 43 I suppose.
Speaker 49 So then they're upselling you into this kind of pyramid scheme.
Speaker 23 When do you get to start selling things?
Speaker 65 Yeah, I think we were supposed to sell the trim life.
Speaker 6 Oh, okay.
Speaker 64 If we bought into it.
Speaker 61 I'm not sure.
Speaker 78 They were very opaque about it.
Speaker 46 And I obviously was also not listening because
Speaker 20 I love you.
Speaker 74 They tried repeatedly to sell us Diane's books.
Speaker 6 Rematerials.
Speaker 31 Repeatedly, yes.
Speaker 39 And, you know, when you take a CEU, one of the things you have to say, I have provided CEUs and you have to state that this is free of bias in commercial products and I'm not trying to sell you anything.
Speaker 39 So huge red flag there.
Speaker 6 Yeah.
Speaker 10 Again, let's go back.
Speaker 52 This is a clinical training for therapists to do therapy.
Speaker 75 And we had to spend time on chakras and colors and meanings of colors.
Speaker 24 And
Speaker 35 oh, oh, here's another thing.
Speaker 61 We were taught that people could cause themselves illness, such as cancer.
Speaker 22 Did you talk to anybody else in the class about this?
Speaker 6 Yeah.
Speaker 23 Anyone on your side?
Speaker 10 Yeah, some people were.
Speaker 55 Nobody seemed to be totally 100%
Speaker 70 where I was with it.
Speaker 28 They were still looking for ways to feel like they got something out of it, but
Speaker 11 I mentioned culti to at least one person who said, yeah, same vibes.
Speaker 59 I think so too.
Speaker 10 But they all seem more willing to try to find good, to try to find some way to make it meaningful.
Speaker 22 Yeah, especially when you're doing it 12 hours a day.
Speaker 6 Right.
Speaker 50 It's honoring sunk costs, right?
Speaker 80 Like the money's already spent.
Speaker 48 You've already signed up. Yeah.
Speaker 70 You already spent 12 hours before you found out it was really freaky.
Speaker 34 Well, yeah, what are you going to do at that point?
Speaker 18 And I...
Speaker 20 I might as well keep going and then accuse my father of molesting me.
Speaker 6 Yeah.
Speaker 54 That's the take-home. That's the door prize.
Speaker 52 Absolutely.
Speaker 6 Destroying your family and your childhood.
Speaker 80 Well, thank you for being someone who is so alert and aware and taking notes this whole time.
Speaker 78 Yeah.
Speaker 6 Okay.
Speaker 19 Keep in touch. Bye.
Speaker 43 All right. Thanks.
Speaker 19 The Dream is a production of Little Everywhere.
Speaker 80 You can call our tip line just like Shea did at 323-248-1488.
Speaker 70 Tell us a story.
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Speaker 4 Can I make my site softer?
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Speaker 9 Hey, dream listeners, it's finally here.
Speaker 81 The dream plus, where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads.
Speaker 69 It's $5 a month.
Speaker 81 It's the only tier.
Speaker 11 No commercials.
Speaker 9 Plus, bonus content.
Speaker 48 This helps keep us independent.
Speaker 81 And your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream.
Speaker 51 We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us.
Speaker 50 We're also going to have an amazing discussion board. The interface has it cataloged under AMA, Ask Me Anything.
Speaker 6 But I don't love rules.
Speaker 81 So what I did is started a bunch of threads like ask Dan and I questions, general chit chat, just to make friends and stuff.
Speaker 48 And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Shopping, and it's there.
Speaker 6 And we're just going to talk about what we bought.
Speaker 9 It'll be fun.
Speaker 51 That's the dream.superca.com.
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