The MVP Of NLP

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Speaker 10 Okay, let's get back into that whole mindset thing that all coaches rely on.

Speaker 11 When you tell your mind what's important to you, there is extraordinary science that proves that your mind has a live and ever-changing filter, a live network that changes how it views the world, what it lets in, what it blocks out.

Speaker 11 And if you program your mind correctly, and if you're clear about what you want to create, your mind will help you get what you want.

Speaker 2 When I say watch your language, our words shape the way we think and how we feel. And how we feel determines what we do.
And what we do determines whether you get results or not.

Speaker 2 I'm talking about being aware that there are certain words that you use, everyone individually uses, that put your energy up and some that put it down. Certain words and phrases start to limit you.

Speaker 2 Certain words and phrases free you. By transforming the words you use regularly, you literally change your biochemistry, your emotions, your thinking, and your actions.

Speaker 12 Let's say you decide to make some chocolate chip cookies.

Speaker 12 You get out a bowl, you add the milk, you add the flour, the brown sugar, the egg. But what if I told you that the cookies changed the way they tasted based on the bowl you picked?

Speaker 12 That's what language is. Language does not just communicate emotion.
It shapes what we're feeling.

Speaker 10 That was Mel Robbins, Tony Robbins, and Brene Brown, who forgot to add chocolate chips to that chocolate chip cookie recipe that was a weird metaphor for something.

Speaker 10 What all this sounds like to me is manifesting or envisioning or whatever. But the key words they're using are brain and language and programming.

Speaker 10 And even though they don't name it, it has one, neuro-linguistic programming, or NLP.

Speaker 10 Tony Robbins is an outright proponent and expert in NLP, and it has seeped into almost every corner of the coaching world.

Speaker 10 But the scientific world says it's complete whoe, which made it really hard to find someone reputable to talk about it. Academics simply don't take it seriously.

Speaker 10 The first sentence on Wikipedia's page about NLP reads, Neuro-linguistic programming, NLP, is a pseudoscientific approach to communication, personal development, and psychotherapy.

Speaker 10 So the Tony Robbins, the expensive workshops, the pseudoscience, I mean, NLP is not great at being taken seriously, at least by me. But there's no ignoring its impact on coaching.

Speaker 10 Finally, I found someone who said they would, for free, help me understand this thing. John James Santangelo.

Speaker 2 Before we get started, I listened to a couple of your episodes.

Speaker 2 You're like, you're tough. Oh,

Speaker 2 I'm like, you're going to ask hard questions. I'm giving it back to you.
I can't wait. Yeah.

Speaker 10 John has written a book called Discovering NLP, Introduction to the Basic Principles of NLP. And if I were his copy editor, I wouldn't have let him put NLP in the title twice.

Speaker 10 But anyway, luckily, John lives nearby enough to be here with me in person. Perhaps that was my first mistake.

Speaker 2 I started out probably like most people looking for answers.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I started my psychology degree and going that direction, I'm like, no, don't want to do that. I can't sit in a room for eight hours with people and just listen to people complain.

Speaker 2 I'm not that kind of person. I'm the kind of person, if we communicate and you tell me what the problem is and I have a solution, I'm going to kick you in the ass to tell you how to do it.

Speaker 2 I found NLP after I found Tony Robbins and I got certified. Then I went on to different instructors around the country and then finished my degree, just finished my PhD in clinical hypnosis.

Speaker 2 I started doing that and I thought, I don't need that.

Speaker 2 I just wanted the PhD after my name looks good on the book.

Speaker 10 Dr. John James Santangelo, PhD, is not a huge fan of traditional talk therapy, especially the Freudian kind.
Neither were the men who, quote, invented neuro-linguistic programming.

Speaker 2 When we come to the conclusion that we don't know what we're doing and we go to seek help outside of ourselves, we usually go to a therapist. And up until the 40s, 50s, and 60s, that's all there was.

Speaker 2 There was no other type of traditional therapy. So these two gentlemen at the University of Santa Cruz, one was a mathematician.
He's a genius.

Speaker 10 So there were these two guys at UC Santa Cruz in the 70s. These two guys, their names are John Grinder and Richard Bandler.
Bandler was studying psychology, and Grinder was a linguistics professor.

Speaker 10 And I don't know if you know what UC Santa Cruz in the 70s is shorthand for, but it's like hippy-dippy thinking.

Speaker 2 And a lot of it was great.

Speaker 2 Richard, he came across a gentleman by the name of Fritz Perls. And Fritz Perls was a psychologist and one of the best at the time.

Speaker 2 Well, Richard sat down and Fritz said to him, I want you to sit in on my sessions and take notes and transcribe everything. Richard, being a mathematician at

Speaker 2 21 years old, said, wow,

Speaker 2 this is a formula, a process, what he's doing. I'll bet you if I recite the same things to other people, I can get the same result.

Speaker 10 And together, they decided to cook up a new method of essentially helping people feel better and do better and like achieve their dreams and stuff without dwelling on the past.

Speaker 10 They wanted action steps. They wanted forward thinking.
They wanted formulas. They wanted cheat codes to happiness and success.

Speaker 10 So it will come as no surprise that they were also both fans of hypnosis, just like John here. But back to our discussion.

Speaker 10 I just want to warn you, this was one of the most frustrating, overwhelming, yet utterly mesmerizing interviews I've ever done.

Speaker 2 What is

Speaker 2 neuro-linguistic? Linguistic programme. Well, neuro-linguistic programming means neuro, the mind-body connection, because we know they're connected and we can't work on one without the other.

Speaker 2 Then the linguistic part is language, the language that we talk to ourselves, like you're doing right now, you're asking questions or making comments in your head, and how you communicate with the language with others outside of yourself.

Speaker 2 And then the programming, it is a process, there are processes, but the programming comes from like a computer.

Speaker 2 A computer is a blank hard drive until we install software, which is we are programming the computer the same way that we program our children.

Speaker 2 Children come into the world, we all do, with blank hard drives. We're surrounded by our primary caretakers.
That's usually your parents or one parent. Could be your grandparents that brought you up.

Speaker 2 If you are brought up in a foster care, right? Those become your primary caretakers.

Speaker 2 Then they download their software, their beliefs, their behaviors, their modalities, how they function, how they communicate onto our hard drive.

Speaker 10 Okay, so you're thinking of the brain as we're all born with a blank hard drive. And then tell me where the linguistic programming comes in.
Like, where does it get

Speaker 2 programmed incorrectly or correctly?

Speaker 2 Well, who decides that?

Speaker 10 What's correct? Yeah.

Speaker 10 Well, I'm a mom, so I do.

Speaker 2 You, as the individual, decides if... They did it right or they did it right.
Exactly. But when?

Speaker 2 and how.

Speaker 2 Usually when you run into a block wall or you run into a problem.

Speaker 2 so we don't really figure out until sometime later on in life usually it's probably in your 20s after you get out of school or college you start having to live your life get a job maybe you're in a committed relationship whatever that is and you figure out this is not working for me so when we get to that stage of figuring out this is not working What do most people do?

Speaker 2 Go to therapy.

Speaker 2 Some?

Speaker 10 Well, most. Oh, you asked most.

Speaker 2 I don't know. So when we come to the conclusion of things aren't working in our life, we try to fix things ourselves.
And a lot of the times, how could you know what to do

Speaker 2 when all you know is the way that you've been doing it?

Speaker 2 If you only have one way of making a cake and it completely turns out bad every time,

Speaker 2 And somebody says, your cake sucks, it tastes bad, and you go back and to make another cake, but you only know one way to make it, how are you expecting to produce something different right so that's when most people go to traditional therapy

Speaker 2 the co-creators of NLP decided if the problem was bad the first time

Speaker 2 talking about it over and over and over again isn't going to make it better

Speaker 2 so we look at problems like that and go how can I solve that and you solve it what we call a trans derivational search.

Speaker 2 A what?

Speaker 2 Trans-derivational search.

Speaker 2 We go back into a past, we pull up that video of how we did it before, we bring it in front of us and go, ah, that's how I do it, and you do it again.

Speaker 2 And then you don't get the result, your brain goes, well, let me go back into the past, see if I can try something else. But everything you've tried doesn't work.

Speaker 2 You're still looking at the same problem with the solution that you've been dealing with the entire time. Okay.

Speaker 2 Now, hopefully, if a good therapist will come along, will allow you to come up with the solution.

Speaker 2 But most people don't. That's why they keep going back to the same therapist year after year after year.

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Speaker 10 How does it work?

Speaker 2 Like, what is

Speaker 2 your here? It is. So, we study, what's called modeling because NLP is about modeling success.
And then there's a strategy or recipe or a program that they implemented themselves.

Speaker 2 Now, usually they don't even know what it is. But we in NLP can model their success by their beliefs, their internal language, and the physiological processes they went through.

Speaker 2 If I can map those out, then I can take that model now that I have and teach it to somebody else.

Speaker 10 Right, like, I don't understand. What are you

Speaker 2 saying to me? Okay, so

Speaker 2 our world, our map, is made up of our five senses. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 2 There are two million bits of information coming into our brain every second. Things you're not even aware of.
The way your feet feel in your shoe. The way your fingers is touching your eyes.

Speaker 2 Your headphones, the taste in your mouth, the things that you're saying, your internal processes, you're not aware of those until I bring them up.

Speaker 2 So those two million bits come in, but the brain chunks them down to seven plus or minus two.

Speaker 10 How do you know that?

Speaker 2 Because there are studies done. Miller Galanto in 1957 did a study and he said that we can only process seven bits of information at a time.

Speaker 2 The length of a phone number. Coincidence? No.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 this information is.

Speaker 2 They weren't always funny. I know.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 2 But it's funny how coincidence, that's what I said.

Speaker 10 I'm going to jump in here and correct John. It was actually a 1956 paper, not 1957.
And there's been some recent scholarship about how beautifully written it was, entertaining, and well-received.

Speaker 10 So much so that it might have halted further progress of study into that area for quite some time.

Speaker 10 In 2015, Nelson Cowan, a professor at the University of Missouri, wrote a paper called George Miller's Magical Number of Immediate Memory in Retrospect, Observations on the Faltering Progression of Science.

Speaker 10 Why don't you tell us what you really think, Nelson?

Speaker 2 Well, he does.

Speaker 10 Here's a quote from the summary. Though influential in several ways, for about 40 years it was oddly followed by rather little research on the numerical limit of capacity in working memory.

Speaker 10 Given that the article was written in a humorous tone and it was framed around a tongue-in-cheek premise, I argue that it may have inadvertently stymied progress on these topics as researchers attempted to avoid ridicule.

Speaker 10 This commentary relates to some correspondence with Miller on his article and concludes with a call to avoid self-censorship of our less conventional ideas. I'll paraphrase from that conclusion.

Speaker 10 One of the most important constraints that science faces is the restriction of topics that individual scientists pursue.

Speaker 10 They place these restrictions on themselves because they do not wish to be perceived in a manner that would hurt their careers, discourage funding, or make them seem foolish or laughable.

Speaker 10 These concerns are not without a basis in reality. And then he gives a long example.

Speaker 10 It is important for reviewers to try to be open-minded to unconventional ideas, albeit without lowering the bar for the requirement of solid evidence.

Speaker 10 George Miller was a humble man who never would have dreamed that his article would become so important, nor that the entertaining manner in which it was presented might discourage others from pursuing the basic phenomena described within.

Speaker 10 In other words, Cowen argues that people are either intimidated or convinced enough by Miller's argument that they were like, Seven bits of information plus or minus two. Great, moving on.
Anyway.

Speaker 2 Okay, so all this information is coming in. You're outside, you're driving your car, whatever it is, talking to your daughter.
All this information is coming in.

Speaker 2 We distill it down to seven pieces, but we have to filter it first. And it's filtered through our beliefs,

Speaker 2 our decisions,

Speaker 2 our past, our attitudes, our values, and our memories.

Speaker 10 Yeah.

Speaker 2 What shows up on the other side of that is what we call an internal representation. Now I'm going to give you an example.
That I understand.

Speaker 2 I'm I'm going to give you a word, which is, you don't know the word yet. It is outside of you.
It is going to be one of those pieces of information coming in.

Speaker 2 You're going to make meaning of it by distilling it and filtering it through all your stuff. Okay.
And then when I point to you, I want you to say the first thing that comes to mind. Okay.

Speaker 2 The word is dog.

Speaker 10 Gross.

Speaker 2 Gross?

Speaker 2 Okay, that's funny.

Speaker 2 Because not that it doesn't matter, but I think dogs. I don't like dogs.
Okay. Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 So this event comes in. We filter it.
We make some internal representation of what it is. It changes our state, our state of mind.

Speaker 2 I'll give you an example.

Speaker 10 Now I'm thinking about how gross dogs are.

Speaker 2 Yes. So that changes your internal state.
Now I'm going to give you a more complex word. Okay.

Speaker 2 Love.

Speaker 2 Hate.

Speaker 2 Ooh.

Speaker 2 Now, I look at what's funny, audience, I just saw this look on her face, and it was an emotional response to hate.

Speaker 2 What was it? No, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 10 No, I mean what was the look, if you could describe it?

Speaker 2 All of a sudden everything got sucked out of you. It just went

Speaker 2 like that, like you just did it again.

Speaker 2 So we have this emotional response, which, okay, did it again. So the event comes in, you filter it, you get an emotion, it changes.
Yeah, and you go, ooh,

Speaker 2 stand up.

Speaker 2 Stand up. Take a deep breath.
Think of your daughter. What's she wearing today?

Speaker 2 Good, sit down. There you go.
I just changed your state. Okay.
So the emotion comes in. It changes our state, changes our physiology, and we behave through that physiology

Speaker 2 like you just did. You went,

Speaker 2 that's a behavior. This is going on every nanosecond of our experience in life.

Speaker 2 As I communicate, lights coming in, you're hearing other things, you're talking to yourself. This is all events coming into your mind, filtered through those responses that you had in the past.

Speaker 2 You get an emotional feeling from it. It changes your physiology, and we behave.
That is how we do things.

Speaker 10 So, okay, so had you not had me stand up and think about what the stupid outfit my kid picked out, had you not had me do that, you would have been stuck in that negative state.

Speaker 2 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 10 And you kept. I would have been grumpy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, not grumpy. You were just like, ugh.

Speaker 2 I watched you loop through it three times.

Speaker 2 Now, here's what I meant by the state and physiology are interchangeable.

Speaker 2 When you feel an emotion, it changes your body.

Speaker 2 But also when you change your body, it changes your emotion.

Speaker 10 Okay, tell me examples of that.

Speaker 2 What I just had you do. Oh, stand up.
I said, stand up, think of your daughter. And you all of a sudden started smiling.
You threw your shoulders back. Your chin went up.
You took a deep breath.

Speaker 2 And all of a sudden, everything went,

Speaker 2 and you got this enlightened feeling.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So one of the things Tony Robbins talks about is when you're in a negative state, and there's plenty of of words that can represent that negative state,

Speaker 2 don't sit in it, don't dwell in it, get up and move.

Speaker 2 That's how easy it is. Do you understand? Here's the problem with life.

Speaker 2 This is the problem.

Speaker 2 We're not taught how to put ourselves in a good mood.

Speaker 2 We know how to put ourselves in a bad mood. Just think of something that we don't like or that happened in the past or something that's coming up that's going to give us anxiety.

Speaker 2 All of a sudden, bam, we get the emotion, our physiology changes, and we behave.

Speaker 2 It's sad. It's sad that we're not taught that if you change your body, you can change your state.

Speaker 2 Do I have to be doing this all the time? No. So, what is the NLP part?

Speaker 2 Jesus.

Speaker 10 I just want you to give me the.

Speaker 2 Let me give you a process.

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Speaker 2 One of the most powerful ways to change your world is to change your internal dialogue. Okay.
Now, I'm only going to give you three examples here. But there's how many? Oh, my God, thousands.
Okay.

Speaker 2 All right, because they're just all words, right? Because every word holds power.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 So, here's one of the things I teach my students. The first three words, which are very easy because we use them all the time, especially in America, one is called a negation.
It's the word but.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 2 And I'll give you an example of a negation. A negation is like don't, shouldn't, can't.

Speaker 2 Instead of using the word but, God, Jane, I am having so much fun here, but

Speaker 2 it doesn't matter what comes after that because your mind only heard the negation. And that's how we normally talk to ourselves.
So

Speaker 2 here's the challenge. We are a nation of negations.

Speaker 2 And you're going to find, now that I said it, if you're aware and you truly want to make a change in your life, how many times you use the word but in your life? It's horribly bad. It's horribly bad.

Speaker 2 And it's a negation.

Speaker 2 God,

Speaker 2 I just, I want to spend so much time with you and I love you so much, but

Speaker 2 it doesn't matter what's said after that. And that's how we communicate.

Speaker 2 So use a causal linkage.

Speaker 2 It's called a causal linkage. The word and, it presupposes a connection to and of.

Speaker 2 I really want to spend time with you. I love you so much.
And

Speaker 2 now you're waiting for the next thing that you can do. The next thing is and

Speaker 2 over time.

Speaker 2 Because it's going to support what I just said rather than negate it. Does that make sense? Yes.
Okay. So change the word but, use the word and instead.
Next word. the word try.
Now,

Speaker 2 here's the example I give. So, Jane, try to take the pen.

Speaker 10 John picks up my pen and holds it in his open palm right in front of my face. So I grab it.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no. You're not listening.
I didn't say take the pen. I said, try and take the pen.
So go ahead. Try to take the pen.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no. You're not taking the pen.
I didn't say not take the pen. I said, try and take the pen.
And that's what people do.

Speaker 2 They go like this, back and forth, back and forth. But you're still not taking the pen.
Does that make sense? Right. You're either taking the pen or you're not taking the pen.

Speaker 2 There's no try to take the pen.

Speaker 10 Yoda, we're all thinking it. What John's saying here is basically that words matter and have an impact in the physical world.
So don't use words that limit what you're capable of doing.

Speaker 10 Helping people get rid of words without clear meanings, words that won't lead directly to the outcome they're seeking, is central to his coaching practice, I think.

Speaker 2 Okay. So what do I so when we communicate to ourselves and other people, oh yeah, Jane, I'm oh man, I'm really gonna try to make your party on Saturday night.

Speaker 2 No, you're not. You know they're not, right? So but use the word and try, I will or won't, or I can or I cannot.
Okay. Be definitive.
And the third word, the word problem.

Speaker 2 Boy, this one's a tough one, too.

Speaker 2 People want to just experience their world as one big problem.

Speaker 2 And when you, when your unconscious mind is processing that word,

Speaker 2 it seems insurmountable. Okay.
Change the word to challenge. That was the very first one that my instructor said to me.

Speaker 2 He goes, I'm going to challenge you to use the word challenge from now on instead of problem. I'm like, this sucks.
I went back the next week because it's a six-weekend course.

Speaker 2 I'm like, that's hard. He goes, yeah, because you're fighting your unconscious mind.
You're programming. Yes.

Speaker 10 John works with business leaders, people who want to better communicate with their teams or colleagues or prospects.

Speaker 10 And he's also a life coach with individuals who want to improve their mindset, get ahead in life, stop getting in their own way.

Speaker 10 It's been really hard not to call his methods and NLP in general how to get what you want by manipulating yourself and everyone around you. But I really like John, so don't tell him I said that.

Speaker 10 Did you just hypnotize me in any way?

Speaker 2 Not necessarily.

Speaker 10 Say more.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I'm trying to condition you. Whenever

Speaker 2 we're in a positive, emotional, wonderful state, do we ever look outside of ourselves and go, boy, I wish this was even bigger and brighter?

Speaker 2 No, the answer is no. Probably.
Because we're inside and we're enjoying it.

Speaker 2 We just, we want to bathe ourselves in those emotions. They're so wonderful.
That's what life is about. That is all that life is about.
That's it.

Speaker 10 Wait, here's a question. Yes.
When I'm in the most positive, happy thing, I literally, the first and tell me why I do this and what's wrong with me.

Speaker 2 There's nothing wrong with you. I think,

Speaker 2 kill me now.

Speaker 2 I don't get it. That's what

Speaker 2 you're in a positive state and you say, kill me now.

Speaker 10 Like, die now.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, because that's where you want to end up there. Yeah, I just want to be done.

Speaker 10 Like, I don't,

Speaker 2 I'm going to choke you. Don't use those words.
Your unconscious mind is always listening and it takes everything literally and personally. Oh,

Speaker 2 I'm going to kill myself. No, no, I don't wanna kill myself, but like when I'm in a really

Speaker 10 good place, I think, like, kill me now. Like, let me know.

Speaker 2 No, don't say those. Okay.
Would you tell your daughter to say that? No. No, then why would you tell yourself and your unconscious mind to say that to yourself? I don't know.

Speaker 10 I call myself an idiot 30 times a day. I do.

Speaker 2 Your unconscious mind is always listening.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 2 It takes everything literally and personally.

Speaker 10 Before he left, John James Santangelo, who used to be a professional magician, had one last thing to show me.

Speaker 2 Watch this. Some people actually think this is real.
Like, you saw me pick this up. The pen? Yeah.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 10 Now, we're sitting at a table about three feet away from each other, longer than arm's length. On his side, there's a bottle of water on a coaster.

Speaker 10 On my side, there's a bottle of water on a coaster. And I have my pen and notepad right in front of me because I was was using them.
He stood up a bit, reached over and grabbed my pen.

Speaker 2 Now you think it's real. It is.
No, it's not. What? Because

Speaker 2 if I take it, right, and I say, it's not real because if it was real, I couldn't do this or I couldn't do this and I couldn't do this.

Speaker 2 Oh my God!

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 then now how was it?

Speaker 10 The pen was in his hands and then it disappeared.

Speaker 2 See, if I said, it's not there, it's under here, you'd be like, wow.

Speaker 10 And then it reappeared under the notebook I was using.

Speaker 2 My pen, my notebook. But that's what life is about.
Impossibility.

Speaker 10 That was creepy.

Speaker 2 Thanks. Good word.
Not entertain. That was creepy.
It was.

Speaker 10 When this interview was over and John left, we in the office were in a complete daze.

Speaker 10 You know, like when you go see a matinee starring Dwayne The Rock Johnson and afterwards you walk out of the theater and into the peaceful daylight and you're totally disoriented?

Speaker 10 it felt itchy and confusing and intense. And maybe that's the whole point.

Speaker 10 I wonder how much that feeling, the feeling that something, not sure what, but something happened, gets confused with NLP, quote, working. You know what I mean?

Speaker 10 Maybe a little placebo effect is going on.

Speaker 10 I felt fired up and discombobulated.

Speaker 10 And I'm sure in that state, if John were like, hey, want to sign up for another session, if he was my life coach, I would just be like, yeah, let's get to the bottom of this, dude.

Speaker 10 That's it for this week. We have a tip line open.
Call us at 323-248-1488. 323-248-1488.
And leave us a message about anything that you think is funky out there. Talk to me.

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