So Much Better Than A Wedding Registry

Hey dream listeners, there's now an ad-free version of the dream that you can subscribe to, the dream plus at thedream.supercast.com.

Five bucks a month gets you every single episode of this show with zero ads, which you love and I love.

And we're hoping that this will help us pay the bills and the main goal being that we can keep making this show.

Go to thedream.supercast.com and subscribe.

To make it easy, we have put the link in the show description.

Just look down underneath this episode.

It says thedream.supercast.com and just click on that easy peasy you're gonna get a lot of extra stuff too we're working on all that another thing you need to do please subscribe to our instagram it's the dream x the letter x jane marie see you over there

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One bank guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicaid, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Miniprotein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep-set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

I'm Jane Marie, and this is the dream.

As a twice-divorced person, Ta-da, I'm often the friend that folks reach out to for advice when they're facing a divorce, which, dear listener, is nothing to be ashamed of.

It's pretty much as boring as buying a car or having a baby or all the other regular human stuff.

Usually, I give them hugs and a few phone numbers of the lawyers I've used, but I'm no expert at this.

Today's guest, however, is.

My name is Olivia Howell.

I am 40 years old.

I am from Long Island and live on Long Island, as you can hear in my accent.

I am a single mom of two boys who are 8 and 11.

And I am the CEO and co-founder of Fresh Starts Registry, which is the largest divorce support network and education platform for people going through life transitions.

And I am a marketing expert and an author.

Wait, slow down on the divorce registry thing.

What?

Sure.

Yeah, so I am the CEO and co-founder of Fresh Starts Registry.

We are the very first and only divorce registry and divorce support network and divorce education platform.

Okay, let's go to the origins of that.

So you were married, I imagine.

I was married.

I was married when I was 26, I believe.

I met my ex-husband when I was 24 online.

Where were you?

Yeah, so I, so it's a funny story, Jane.

So I was on Long Island.

I was teaching.

I was a middle school teacher back my first career.

And I went on match.com, as they did back in the day.

And he was in Connecticut.

So match.com match does over the water, mileage-wise.

And so even though I wasn't looking for somebody out of state,

and so he's pretty funny.

It's yeah, the universe was had a little joke in that one.

And so he had moved, he was actually from

the Midwest and he had moved to Connecticut for a job before I met him.

So he was working in Connecticut and we met and he started to commute out here and then he moved out here and got a new job.

But we moved very quickly.

We moved in together together after three months and then we got engaged after a year.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, it's called love bombing.

So now I know that term.

But, um, and so then uh

then we got married in 2011 and, you know, did the whole suburban thing.

We bought a house, we had two kids, and then in 2019, I was actually April 15th, it was tax day,

my marriage ended.

And yeah, so then that's kind of where the origin story of all this begins.

If you don't mind me prying too much, how and why did your marriage end?

I love this question.

Well, we came from very different backgrounds.

And he'd actually grown up in North Carolina and then moved to Illinois for his teen years.

And I'm from New York.

And though on paper, we did seem like we were, you know, a great match, both kind of from Jewishy families.

And,

you know, both I thought wanted the same things we really didn't want the same things in life and to be quite honest I became primary everything right primary caregiver primary laundress primary cook

and it was a lot I was completely burnt out and you know it was one of those

we were young when we met and we thought we could do it and we just really didn't end up being people that were very compatible with each other What did you want and versus what did he want?

I mean, what did you find out that you wanted separately?

Like, what were your goals individually for a marriage?

Well, I think we both wanted similar things, but just not necessarily.

Like, he was a bluegrass musician, an amazing, amazing musician.

He really wanted to pursue that career.

And he also was an engineer.

He worked very hard.

And so, you know, I'm somebody that really focuses on the little things in life.

You know, I'm happy with the sunshine and hanging with my kids and drawing in my notebook.

And he really wasn't as happy with those little happy things.

And so

over time,

we just, you know, began to resent each other as people do.

And there was a fair amount of emotional abuse towards me and psychological abuse.

And so what happened really was I was binge eating a lot.

That's how I was dealing with it.

And so, I sought out some help for that.

And so, I started therapy in March.

And I think I said no for the first time to something in our marriage a couple of weeks later.

And then our marriage ended right after that.

So, you know, I think it was me stepping into my power, which really kind of was the impetus.

Wait, in March, you found your power, and in April you were gone.

In April.

Yeah.

Good for you.

Oh my God.

Well, you know, it wasn't on my mind.

I come from a big family of divorce.

Like literally every single person in my family is divorced.

And I always like to say the thought of raising children with the man that I had the children with was like a foreign animal, right?

It was like, whoa, like this is something nobody does in my family.

Like I was raised by both a step grandfather and a stepfather like you know so

there was a lot i really did want i wanted to grow old with this person i loved him very much but i also knew that i couldn't keep going that way and it wasn't safe for our household and for my kids and i didn't want to raise sons like that quite honestly so i think that it was also me

allowing other people to see what was going on in my life.

So I had my best friend, Alex.

We met on Instagram, as you do with your best friends.

And she and her son visited us.

And it was the first time somebody really saw what was happening inside the house, beyond my sister, obviously, who knew what was going on.

And she was like, Olivia, you're being treated horribly.

You know, and I was like, what?

What are you talking about?

It's only that I like do every single possible thing and I'm being made fun of and insulted all the time.

That's totally normal for my marriage.

And she was like, no, it's not.

Also, I had left teaching when my older son was born and started a marketing agency and I was making money and I could do it on my own.

And it doesn't surprise me that kind of everything happened on tax day.

So,

well, I want to get into the nitty-gritty of that, if you don't mind.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can you tell me like one anecdote from your friend, your best friend visiting that really highlighted the stark difference in your understanding between the two of you?

You and your best friend, I mean.

Yeah.

So one of the big issues in our marriage was that he absolutely hated where we lived.

So he hated Long Island.

He was not comfortable here.

And my whole family's here.

And,

you know, to be quite frank, he was not a prominent parent, right?

He didn't show up.

He was not my co-parent, even when we were married.

For example, when I broke my foot, I was carrying one of my kids.

I broke my foot.

I was off my foot for three months.

And it was my stepdad that took my kids to nursery school, right?

And took me to my appointments.

It was my stepdad who held my son when he got his tooth pulled out, right?

So I knew I couldn't leave New York because I would die.

I would die without my family.

There was no way that I could do it without them.

Right.

So when my friend came to visit with her son, we took our older sons to see Wicked on Broadway.

And while I was trying to enjoy that day out in the city with my best friend and her son, he was constantly texting me about how unhappy he was, or he needed someone to help watch our other son because he had to play music.

And it was like this constant barrage of just texts.

And he knew these were the plans.

And she just kept looking at me like, what's happening here?

You can't even enjoy two seconds of a Broadway show.

and then you know she stayed in our house which we were pretty careful with who we let in the house because of the eggshells that we had to walk on sure so you know it was eye-opening and she has since come back to visit and we've had such a great time because it was different a different energy but like he wasn't very nice to her you know it's one thing when your family sees things because i think sometimes families can be like well maybe he was just grumpy or he had a bad day or But to see this outside person say these things to you is pretty alarming.

Well, your family's invested in a different way.

Like they want it to work out for you.

Yeah.

And that's kind of what happens.

They don't want to admit that you're in a miserable situation.

100%.

Yeah.

And in fact, like I distinctly remember it was December of 2008.

We went to Costco with my parents, my stepdad and my mom.

And my stepdad has been in my life since I was 10.

So he's raised us.

And I was walking behind my stepdad and kind of mumbling, like, well, it's not that I want to get a divorce, but I'm really not happy right now.

And, you know, kind of how you just think out loud.

And it wasn't until years later that my mom told me that it was my stepdad who was like, Did you hear what she was saying?

Like, she's not happy.

She wants to get a divorce.

And my mom was like, Really?

Like, I didn't hear that.

Like, so, you know, so I think sometimes different people pick up on different things we were okay for a little while because he was playing in multiple bands in New York City so he was gone a lot and you know he would work as an engineer till five o'clock six o'clock and then go into Manhattan to play shows and so he wouldn't come home till late I would barely see him and I remember saying to him like wow our marriage has been really great lately it's because we don't see each other anymore and I was like oh that's not a good thing I think.

Again, he was always like somebody that was looking for the next best thing.

He was a malcontent.

And so we took the kids together to a children's museum in Manhattan.

And it's like, do you know the movie Father of the Bride Part 2?

Yes.

When they both look at the opposite sides of the street, right?

And he's like, Steve Martin sees the parents miserable and Diane Keaton sees them as great.

Yep.

That's what it was like.

So I had a great day with the kids.

We had a fun time in the Children's Children's Museum.

And we get home.

And I'm like, wasn't that a fun day?

And he was like, no.

You know, it was miserable.

And I was like, what?

And so then there was some stuff that happened with my son.

And my older son is a very sweet, loving kid.

And I could see that there were some things happening that wasn't very kind towards him.

And so.

I kind of shut down.

And then there was like a whole bunch of gaslighting that happened, right?

So then it was like, oh, why are you quiet?

Why are you sad?

What's upsetting you kind Kind of thing.

Couldn't be me.

It couldn't be me.

So the night of, and I will never forget this, the night of April 14th,

I couldn't stop crying.

And I was like, what is happening here?

I was so afraid to get a divorce.

I didn't think that he would ever want a divorce.

And my grandmother, who was like my soulmate, my beloved grandmother, had passed away about a year, two years before that.

And even when she passed away, he was like, Well, she's gone now.

Can we move out of New York?

And I was like, That's not how this works, dude.

Like, what?

Yeah, like, what?

And so

I put her flannel shirt on.

And I was like, I don't know what else to do but pray here.

And I'm not, I'm not like a religious person.

And I just couldn't stop crying.

I went to the living room and I distinctly remember watching some horrible Nickelodeon show that was on.

And,

you know, in the morning, he came in and he's like, like, what's the matter?

And I was like, I think we need to go to couples therapy.

And he immediately said, no.

And I was like, you think this is a good marriage?

I'm like, what do you think this is?

And he was like, well, I don't understand why you're so upset.

And what's the problem?

And blah, blah, blah.

Right.

So.

We ended up getting into, I always like to say it was like one of those big movie fights.

Like we were not, we're not fighters.

And we were yelling and screaming and the kids were listening and something really just went off in my head.

You know, again, I came from a family of divorce.

I come from a family of lawyers, so I understand a lot.

And I thought, you know what?

I think that I need to be on my best behavior here because there's going to be things said about me that I need to be careful about.

And so I said, you know what?

You go to work.

We'll talk about this later.

And I called

my parents and I said, something happened.

I think my marriage might be over.

And my biological dad, who I'm still very close to, and my stepdad and my mom, all three of them gave the same answer, which was you guys need to go to counseling, right?

When he called his parents to tell them that we had a fight, they said, you can come home.

Oh.

So

back across the pond.

Yeah, exactly.

So I called my sister.

She was living in Queens at the time.

And she said, I'm driving out to you.

And we talked the whole way by the time she got out to where I lived on Long Island she was like I think you need a divorce lawyer and I was like I think you're right and so he called me during the day and he said my parents want to move back to North Carolina and they want us to move with them and I was like what are you talking about?

Like we literally just had a fight about this.

And so he said, well, I'm going anyway.

And I said, without the children?

Why don't we talk about this later?

And so

he came home that night.

We were doing a whole 30 together, which was super fun for me because I kept trying to keep myself healthy and then he would love to like tag on to that and then it would make it miserable for me.

And so

and actually I have an article I wrote that I never published called why the whole 30 can be used for emotional abuse because it was.

Sorry.

Not to mention that it's like a cult.

And so, you know, he came home and it was very, you know, it was calm And I talked to my family all day.

I talked to my therapist, you know, an emergency sesh.

And he had a music studio in the house and he was up there playing guitar.

And I was cooking dinner.

And I could see him into the studio from where I was.

And I said, do you think we should talk?

And he said, I think I should leave.

And at that moment, no joke, one of my other friends texts me and she just said, hey, Olivia, like, what's happening?

And I texted back and all I could think of was, my husband's leaving.

And she said, what?

Where is he going?

And I said, I think he's leaving, leaving.

And

I said, do you, are you talking about a divorce?

And he said, you know, I think this isn't working anymore.

And his father was very sick.

So, you know, I understood that.

And so it was.

honestly, actually a beautiful conversation.

I will give him that.

It was two people who really shouldn't be together who figured that out, you know, before it was too late.

And I saw that as as my moment to be free.

So I was encouraging anything I could to make it easier for him.

So we lived in the same house until August, which was super not fun.

But I continued taking on the emotional labor of helping him move.

I called the moving company.

I helped him find an apartment.

He eventually got remarried and had another child.

And, you know, so the kids stayed here with me.

I'm the primary parent still.

But, you know, We email.

I let him know if, you know, we're going on vacation.

And honestly, Jane, I have no ill will towards him.

I really don't.

I think that him letting me go in that way was the best thing that ever happened to me.

So I truly wish him well.

Like, I think we met when we were very young.

We both were people from families that had a lot of shit go down and we needed to heal.

And I would never be who I am if it hadn't been through that experience.

Here come the commercials that I don't program.

Back to school is a time when routines reset, and so does screen time.

With all the pickups, practices, and after-school logistics, kids need a way to stay connected.

But handing them a phone designed for adults with internet access and social media, that's where the real concern begins.

Teens already spend an average of nine hours a day on screens outside of school.

That's basically a full-time job just scrolling.

The U.S.

Surgeon General says that kids who spend more than three hours online daily are twice as likely to experience depression and anxiety.

And most of that time is spent on social media.

It's staggering.

Nearly half of teen girls and a third of boys say social media causes overwhelming stress.

A quarter of teens say it makes them feel worse about their own lives.

Here's the good news.

Gab is doing something no one else is doing.

Their approach, called Tech in Steps, offers safe, age-appropriate phones and watches with no social media, no internet browsers, and GPS tracking built in.

From young kids to teens, each device grows with the child and helps build healthy tech habits.

Bottom line, you don't have to give a kid an adult device.

This school year, give them Gab, safe connection, no distractions.

I can't recommend Gab enough.

Use our code to get the best deal on something that gives peace of mind, whether you're a parent, a guardian, or just someone who cares.

Visit gab.com/slash slash the dream and use the code the dream for a special back-to-school offer.

That's Gab, G-A-B-B.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about.

In a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com/slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicate, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Miniprotein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep-set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

Hey, I'm Paige DeSorbo, and I'm always thinking about underwear.

I'm Hannah Bruner, and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage.

I like to call them my granny panties.

Actually, I never think about underwear.

That's the magic of Tommy John.

Same, they're so light and so comfy, and if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.

And the bras, soft, supportive, and actually breathable.

Yes, Lord knows the girls need to breathe.

Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night.

That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Plus, they're so cute because they fit perfectly.

Put yourself on to Tommy John.

Upgrade your drawer with Tommy John.

Save 25% for a limited time at tommyjohn.com/slash comfort.

See site for details.

Okay, so you get divorced, seems pretty fairly amicable.

And you've done some reconciling now in your own mind about like the sort of situation you were in and the relationship you were in.

So you have clarity on that.

Yeah.

Tell me how your business came along.

I'm so curious.

Yeah, sure.

So a couple of backstory things here.

So my sister, who's two and a half years younger than me, she ended up coming on board with my marketing agency.

And so two weeks before my marriage ended, she got engaged.

And so I was grieving my marriage and helping her plan a wedding at the same time.

And yeah,

we were doing all that.

And my ex moved out officially in August.

And the day that he moved out, my sister and her then fiancé came over and helped me completely clean the house out.

So we moved the rest of the things that were his, we donated.

and I was still looking around thinking, well, but like the sheets like that we conceived my son on are on the bed and like, you know, my, my towels with my monogram.

And, you know, it was just so many memories and it just held so much energy.

And I was like, you know what?

I had two baby showers.

I had a wedding registry.

I'm like, why is there not a divorce registry?

And so I went online and I googled and the only things that came up were articles from major publications like Vogue and Elle that were asking the same question.

Why is there not a divorce registry?

So I called my sister and I was like, I think maybe we should do this thing.

And I right before your wedding.

Yeah.

It was like November of 2019.

And so I'm a Pisces.

I'm a big dreamer.

My sister is very practical and she grounds me.

She grounds me, Jane.

So she said, I love it, but I don't know how to build a startup like that.

You know, it's very different than the company we have.

Let's think about it.

Joey says to me, let's think about it.

So then the pandemic hit, and my sister was supposed to get married May of 2020.

So the wedding was pushed off to September and then it was pushed off again.

And then her fiancé told her that he didn't love her anymore.

So

then

she...

Good thing.

Good thing though.

Yep, good thing.

Well, I'll tell you, she has a very happy ending to that story.

So my experience was I stayed in the residence and had the things and stuff.

Still, she left her apartment with literally nothing.

She had some of her grandmother's antiques and her clothing.

My dad came and picked her up.

It was actually a wild story.

My biological father, this just explains my family, I think in a nutshell.

My biological father had a cat named Elvis that he loved very much.

He lives in Manhattan.

And Elvis, the cat, died.

So my father asked my mother and stepfather if he could bury the cat at their house.

So the day that Elvis was going to be buried was the same day my sister's marriage.

Because there was no dirt near his house in Manhattan?

He wanted to be buried under a tree here so my brother could still come pay homage to the cat Elvis.

Got it.

So my father and my brother and the dead cat Elvis picked up my sister, who was, you know, very upset, from her apartment and came out to my stepdad and my mom's house.

And we all had a very weird day.

A cat funeral.

Cat, well, cat funeral.

And my son, who was seven at the time, who is quite the dramatic one, wore a Grim Reaper costume to the cat funeral.

So that happened.

And

then my sister decided to move back to Long Island, where we are, and she rented a beautiful old home apartment here in Huntington.

And she had nothing.

And she was like, bring, bring.

Remember that whole divorce registry thing?

Yep.

That is literally exactly what happened.

I got a phone call and she said, you know that idea you had?

I said, yep.

And so she bought everything new.

She bought a table from Amazon and we set it up in her dining room and we put the laptop there and she built Fresh Starts on Squarespace.

And that is literally the origin story of how that came to be.

So tell me exactly what this website is and this company is.

Yeah, so Fresh Starts Registry.

We are the first divorce registry and also divorce platform with experts.

So we are the fastest growing divorce support network of experts and of the things you need to rebuild your life.

And Fresh Starts came to me because I wanted it to be very proactive, right?

So you're moving on with your life.

You're rebuilding your life.

We're not bitter.

We're not angry.

This is about finding who you are and moving forward.

Tell me about the brainstorming session you had about what to name this company.

Well, I had come up with the name of the company in my journal, and I very specifically said, I want to build Fresh Starts Ristry and eliminate the overwhelm of starting over.

Got it.

So to build a registry platform out yourself,

we priced that out and it would have been about $250,000.

Why?

Because to build a registry, you have to have like options to add product, and then you have to have some place that either is going to drop ship or send things.

So it's a lot of money, and we also didn't have any money.

Oh, you mean you being like the middleman?

Yeah, yeah.

So, what we do is we have bundles of products on Fresh Starts that you can go build your registry.

So, the registries are built on Amazon, and it's always free to build a registry.

We do not charge anybody to build a registry.

What we do is we basically put products together in different bundles based on what people might need.

So you can go to Fresh Starts Registry, click to build a registry and literally add everything from our $500 quick start bundle, right, which is sheets and towels and utensils and plates to your registry.

Amazon collects your name and your address.

And so we don't collect your data.

We don't want to know who you are because going through a divorce can be very scary.

And then you can send that registry to family and friends.

And what we also do is we provide language for you.

So we have scripts that you can send and text to people with your registry.

Alert them to the fact that you are now single again and need some help.

This seems so much more helpful than a bridal registry.

It is.

And, you know, and it's, again, always free.

And so the other part of the website was that we wanted to have a one-stop shop for the experts you need when you go through a divorce.

And so we have built out an expert guide with over 100 experts, everything from, you know, your typical divorce lawyer, divorce coach, mortgage lender, financial planner, but also hairstylists and yoga teachers, personal organizers, because, you know, divorce is a before, during, and after event.

And you're going to need different people at different times.

And again, it's always free to access our experts.

It was really, really important.

I love the hairstylist being in there because I'm definitely 100% in the haircut during a breakup person.

Yes.

Like, it's the first thing I think of when things are going wrong.

Yeah.

It's like, well.

Guess I have to shave my head now.

Exactly.

I don't know what it is.

I mean, I think we all go through that for sure.

That's the thing is we, you don't know who you're going to need.

And so we wanted to provide as many experts.

and what's really important to us number one is it's always free to access any of the divorce resources on fresh starts so to build a registry or to access any of our experts we do not gatekeep we don't collect your credit card information and we don't collect your data beyond like your cookies you know on your website so what how do you yeah how do you make money well that's the first question but secondly are your experts charging for their services after the fact i'm imagining so yes so we are basically a big like connector website much like psychology today right so sure let's say that you needed a divorce expert you would go to fresh starts and you would find a you know divorce lawyer and you could get in touch with them on your own volition The thing about our experts is that they do have to sign an ethos with us that says that they are non-judgmental, they are shame-free, and they are inclusive.

It was very important for me and my sister that anybody that is going to represent us is absolutely open to working with anybody that comes to Fresh Starts.

So that was important.

And then we laid out this entire plan.

And then we thought, oh my gosh, how are we going to make money from this?

Because it was so important to us to have it free for so many things.

So we had a friend of ours say, well, why don't you do what you do best, which is marketing and PR.

And we thought, well, that's a good idea.

So we charge our experts $55 $55 a month and we provide co-working.

We do PR for them for that price.

You know, they can come on our podcasts.

They have a profile, obviously.

And so.

So you're like the yellow pages of divorce.

Yeah.

I never thought about it that way.

Yeah.

You're just putting a little ad out there.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And we love our experts so much and we love getting their name into the world.

And I am the one that runs all the public relations for our experts.

And we've gotten our experts into over 1500 pieces of press so it's it's a win-win for everybody yeah yeah yeah

and you do like an amazon affiliate kind of program we do an amazon affiliate and we make very little money from that so uh like pennies um but we where's the rest of your money coming from

So we're still, we're boot.

You don't need to tell me this.

This is none of my business.

Okay.

You know what?

I want to share because a couple of reasons.

One is that we were down the investment rabbit hole when we began the company because people said, just like you said, this is a great idea.

People should invest in this.

Like, right?

And so we worked for months on their deck and the whole thing.

Trying to get seed funding.

Yeah, we just, we were asking for a million dollars.

And I had one meeting with one man who spelled my name wrong in an email and then canceled on me twice.

And then when I got into that world, I realized how incredibly misogynistic and anti-women it is.

Dude, it's horrible.

Yep.

Listen, there was like a record-breaking percentage of money going to women-founded companies or even women in the C-suite.

I think it was 2023.

It skyrocketed to 2%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

2% of venture capital going to companies with women in the C-suite.

Like what?

And by the way, that includes women investors too, who are not giving money to women.

Right.

So we were like, you know what?

This is kind of ridiculous.

We're wasting time on this.

And also the other thing was we would never sell our data if we even had it.

And that was something that a lot of these companies didn't like.

So we are completely bootstrapped.

And I sold my house to invest in the company.

Really?

Yeah.

I live with my parents.

So,

that's got to be so good with the babes.

Oh, my gosh.

I couldn't heal in that house.

So for me to be back in my childhood home, it has been incredibly healing.

Yeah.

I totally hear that.

So let's talk greatest hits.

Well, we have a couple of great stories.

One is our publicist, you know, when you work with a publicist, you get very close to them.

And she has been with us for almost three years.

When she started working with us, she was married to a man with two little boys.

And now she is with a woman and divorced.

So

she learned a lot about working with us.

And we were just talking this morning and she was saying how her life would never be the same if it hadn't been from learning about everything we do.

So much of our passion and my mission is to normalize divorce.

You know,

we were in New York Magazine, they did a big feature on us a couple of years ago because we were like, we just want this to be a life transition.

Like stop it with the, you know, shaming around it.

Like it's just, we don't do that to people when they lose their job.

So that was exciting.

Something that's really personal to me is I, as a solo mom, wanted to make sure that anything we put into the registry can be applicable to women who are doing this all by themselves.

So we have a bundle that we've built in the registry for children's rooms because...

A lot of people may not realize, but a lot of women have to downsize majorly after a divorce and move into an apartment, which is fine.

It's great.

And they may not have the same space for their children.

And I wanted to make sure that it was items that a woman could build herself without the help of a man.

What do you mean, assemble?

Yeah, like assemble.

Yeah.

Like IKEA style?

Yes, exactly.

Okay.

Okay.

Yep.

So we actually got a video sent to us of a woman's new apartment.

And she took a video of her children's bedroom with all of the items that we'd had in the bundle.

And it was, I mean, I still get chills every single time I think about it.

I'm getting the keys to my apartment, I think, on Thursday.

I'm gonna measure everything on Friday, and I'll start moving in on Saturday and hopefully be able to stay at my apartment for the first time, sleep there Saturday night.

I'm gonna put the registry link in my bio.

If you want to look through it and tell me in the comments anything that I might be missing, please, please do so.

I only have weird kitchen appliances, mugs from all the Broadway and West End shows because that's the thing I like to collect.

I like coffee and clothes and books.

So

please let me know what I need.

You know, it's those moments.

The other interesting thing is starting in January of 2025 this year, I've started offering 100% free divorce resource consults with people.

So basically what that is, is it's 15 minutes on Zoom with me.

You tell me what's going on in your divorce and I will find you the resources you need.

Oh my God.

And that's free?

Free.

It's free.

That should not be free.

Well, it's free because I'm hooking you up with what you need.

And I hope that these people use our experts and our platform.

But it's been really eye-opening for me.

Well, for a lot of reasons.

No joke, the month of January for me is my friends texting me non-stop that their marriages are ending.

And I actually initially started it just for January and it booked up almost immediately.

And so I was like, well, this is interesting.

And so I'm actually taking some notes and stuff on everything.

And it's been fascinating and really horrifying at times because there's a lot more domestic violence happening than people would like to talk about.

But it's been so beautiful to connect people to divorce lawyers.

And, you know, I have people who, women who will come to me and say, I am considering a divorce and I've been calling divorce lawyers and nobody's picking up the phone.

And I'm like, I got you.

We're going to connect you to somebody today.

And our, our divorce lawyer gets back to them immediately.

Oh, I'm so soothed in my

like in the core of me right now i feel so snuggled by your care oh thank you yes you know i i love doing that i really i enjoy it so much and it's been great and we have a divorce podcast you know just i basically build episodes off of the questions i get from people so that's been what are the good ones or the bad ones or what are what are the most common questions a lot one we just were talking about today is how to live with your ex when you you know how to cohabitate when you are going through the divorce process Um, I'm working on a whole series about what to do with your wedding china and your wedding dress and your engagement ring, right?

Things like that.

So, we use our experts for that.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'm just feeling so jealous.

Like, I want to get married just to get divorced, just so that I could talk to you about this stuff because I went through all of this all by myself.

But I love this for people that are coming to you.

We'll be back right after these ads that I'm not 100% responsible for.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One Bank guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital1.com slash bank, capital One NA member FDIC.

Ready to elevate your skincare?

Introducing Medicate, a clinically proven dermatologist-recommended British skincare brand known for age-defying results.

You may have heard about growth factors as the must-have anti-aging ingredient, and that's why Medicaid is excited about their latest innovation, the Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum.

This serum harnesses the power of Growth Factor Miniprotein, a cutting-edge technology that mimics natural growth factors but goes deeper, delivering visible, transformative results.

Studies show immediate improvement in expression lines in just 10 minutes and a significant decrease in deep-set wrinkles after eight weeks of use.

The Liquid Peptides Advanced MP Face Serum not only reduces wrinkles, but also gives a filler-like effect, smoothing out your skin's appearance dramatically.

Visit medicate.us.

That's M-E-D-I-K and the number 8.us.

Use code PODCAST20 for 20% off your purchase today.

Watching your team struggle with acne is tough.

You want to help, but where do you start?

Panoxil makes it simple, with dermatologists' recommended products trusted for over 50 years.

From powerful face washes to invisible patches, it's real skincare that works and builds confidence too.

Support your teen skin journey with Panoxil.

Learn more at panoxel.com or shop the Panoxel store on Amazon.

Panoxel, the Acne Authority.

Hey, I'm Paige DeSorbo, and I'm always thinking about underwear.

I'm Hannah Berner, and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage.

I like to call them my granny panties.

Actually, I never think about underwear.

That's the magic of Tommy John.

Same, they're so light and so comfy, and if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.

And the bras, soft, supportive, and actually breathable.

Yes, Lord knows the girls need to breathe.

Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night.

That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Plus, they're so cute because they fit perfectly.

Put yourself on to Tommy John.

Upgrade your drawer with Tommy John.

Save 25% for a limited time at tommyjohn.com/slash comfort.

See site for details.

What do you do about the haters?

Because I imagine there's plenty of people who are thinking you're promoting divorce.

Oh, yes.

We have gotten many haters.

First of all, it's been very interesting to watch the media reaction to the divorce registry concept shift over the last three years.

So about a couple times a year, we'll be picked up by the press press, and then we'll get a lot of people talking about us.

And we'll be on all sorts of different daytime talk shows, you know, not us, but the concept.

And sometimes you'll get news broadcasters that will be like, I don't love this idea.

I'll just get you a bottle of wine.

You know, I'm not getting you more things.

You know, I've already gotten you wedding gifts.

We've heard that so many times, right?

Right.

That's what they say.

We've already gotten you the wedding gifts.

And it's like, the thing is that these are not gifts.

This is support.

Right.

So I always like to say, like, a toothbrush holder, which is kind of part of my origin stories.

My sister got me a toothbrush holder, is that it's a physical manifestation of the support you can give to somebody.

And, you know, people need cereal bowls so their kids can eat cereal.

They may not need a bottle of wine.

That message that is conveyed by a gift like a toothbrush holder also gives the soon-to-be divorced person a kind of a break from having to share the story over and over and over again and feel like a burden to their friends and family.

There's comes a point where you're like, I can't keep complaining.

Like, I don't want to keep telling this story to everybody, but I do want them to,

I want support, but I don't want to have to like rehash everything.

Totally.

So I think that sounds lovely.

But anyway, go on.

Yeah, no, and so, you know, so a lot of haters like that, you know, well, I, I don't, I don't know if there's still so many people that, you know, don't like divorce.

We were, I think, written in Barstool Sports or something about like how we were wenches and how I, you know, and the other thing is a lot of people don't understand our business model.

And so the divorce industry, Jane, is incredibly predatory with people's wallets.

What is the divorce industry?

Oh, well.

I've never even heard that phrase before.

Dan, have you heard of this?

No, we're both divorced.

And he's shaking his head.

No, we're what?

Yeah.

So there's all sorts of divorce platforms, I will say.

So we, there's some wonderful ones.

Like we are friendly with and partner with divorce.com, which does online divorces.

They're wonderful, right?

Wait, online divorces, meaning what?

They will help you get divorced online.

So, they have people who will actually help you through the process and you don't have to go to a lawyer.

So, if it's a very, you know, amicable divorce, they have packages.

So, it's like their top package is maybe $2,000, and they'll help you get divorced and do it for you.

So, there's platforms like that.

But then there's a lot of platforms that say that they have a lot of resources for divorce, articles, things like that, experts, but you have to pay to access all of these things.

And that nothing makes me more angry because people don't have the extra money during divorce.

Well, it's totally, it sounds totally predatory.

It's totally predatory.

So what people don't understand is that we don't do that and we're the complete opposite.

You know, we make our money from the experts.

And so what we get a lot of hate around is like, oh, you're profiting off people's pain and, you know, things like that.

And we're like, well, first of all, so do divorce lawyers.

Like, how do you think that they make $700 an hour?

And secondly, that's not even our business model.

So, you know, we get a lot of people that say stuff like that.

Well, when you talked about your free consult, what sprang to mind for me is that if I had a free 15 minutes with an expert, or even spent $100 for that 15 minutes, it would save me so much money.

Yeah.

There was so much I didn't understand about what I was supposed to be doing.

And I didn't know who to reach out to.

I found a pretty affordable lawyer, but in hindsight, she didn't do me many favors.

Yeah.

You know, and then I had to go into mediation over and over again.

And that was very expensive.

And if I just understood how the thing worked, it would have happened a lot quicker and cheaper

if I'd had, you know, just someone to point me in any direction.

Yeah.

This was 10 years ago now, but I didn't know where to start even other than going to Yelp and putting in like divorce lawyer on Yelp.

But short of that, I would have paid 100 bucks to have someone say, bleep bleep warp, here's what you do, you know?

Yep.

Or at least like show me where the resources are.

So anyway, I don't think that's predatory at all.

No, I mean, we're not, I mean, it's free, right?

I'm literally not, I'm, they can do whatever they want with the resources, but, you know, we don't gatekeep the resources, right?

So like I said, you can go build a registry, access the experts.

We have hundreds of articles, you know, everything, worksheets, so much stuff on there, the podcast, that you can access all of that.

And I really, really try to make it accessible for different learning styles, for different safety things, right?

You may not be able to pull up the website on your computer because you're still not separated, but you can listen to a podcast, right?

So,

the, you know, we try to give the same kind of information across the different platforms.

And, you know, the really beautiful thing I think people overlook with the concept of the registry for divorce is when you can surround yourself with the items that the people who love you and supported you gave you, like a toothbrush holder or a shower curtain, every time you see those, you're going to remember that you're loved and you're supported.

And that's really beautiful.

And that will snowball your confidence.

Yeah.

How many men come to you?

Not a ton.

I've had a couple of divorce consults with men, but again, men are still, I think that's a bigger conversation about men's mental health, right, too.

And like how they don't, they're not really supposed to talk about it.

But I have definitely worked with men.

We have had men build registries, but it's a lot more women for sure.

And you think that's about, I mean, you said that's a bigger conversation about men's mental health, but what's the taboo there?

Um, I think that men are still afraid to ask for help,

just generally speaking, you know, and so I mean, I've talked to, let's say, 10 women a week and, you know, one man a month, basically.

Yeah.

But they're also, they're not in the same situation leaving a marriage.

Like, they don't usually end up holding the bag.

Mm-hmm.

Well, that's the other thing is I talk to a lot of stay-at-home moms or women who don't have income or women who I will just call hostages, honestly, in their own homes.

The women who are here on visas or who are here, you know, who have no income of their own or a lot of financial abuse.

And I will tell this story.

I was on a consult the other day with a woman and her husband was following her around the house.

While you were on the phone?

I could see it on Zoom.

So, you know, I think while we are in the process of destigmatizing and normalizing divorce, which is wonderful, we have to remember that we're still dealing with a high level of domestic violence.

The most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves her marriage.

When you say the phrase financial abuse, can you tell me what that looks like?

Yeah.

So financial abuse is basically when you don't have access to finances or financial documents.

And this often starts as very innocent, right?

And as a, I'm going to take care of everything and I'll pay the mortgage and I'll give you money for groceries.

And then what happens is they don't let you have money, the husbands often, or you don't know that, literally don't know the password for the chase account or whatever it is.

So I've talked to many women, and I'm going to say across the spectrum of wealth status, right?

So even very, what you would say on the outside looking in, very well-to-do women who literally don't have cash because their husbands don't let them have it.

Oh, my God.

I've just three of my family members just sprang to mind.

Yeah.

who aren't divorced because of this.

Yeah.

And like I will, you know, they'll say to me, well, how am I supposed to have a consult with a divorce lawyer?

I can't even pay for that.

And so before we can even begin the divorce process of getting them there, we have to help them make some cash.

Can you babysit?

Can you cook for people?

Can you help elderly people?

And, you know, I say to them, don't sh tell anybody where that cash is, right?

And

it's just wild that this is 2025 and we're still dealing with this.

God, it's so scary.

Yeah, I mean, but I think you make a good point, Jane, is that, I mean, I'm on the north shore of Long Island here.

This is the Gold Coast.

And I talk to people in my own community who are getting thrown across the room by their husband or he's hitting the kids or not letting them, you know, spend money on whatever, checking to see where their bills are.

And this is, again, 2025 and a very wealthy part of Long Island, right?

So it can happen anywhere.

Sure.

Yeah, and I imagine the more wealth, the more the man has to protect from her.

Yes.

And the more that the men can fight for custody and spend money on it.

And as much as we like to think that it's fun to marry a man with money, I don't want anybody marrying a man with money.

So

are you ever going to get married again?

That is a great question.

I haven't even dated.

Oh, wow.

How long has it been?

Five years.

I was in major healing mode.

I would say I'm just now, I'm just 40, just feeling like myself again.

So.

And who has the time when you have two kids and you're living with your parents?

I'm sorry, but like that too.

You're busy.

I'm busy and also my standards are really, really high.

So, you know, for me, it has to be somebody that is going to be great for me and my boys.

And like additive.

Yeah, 100%.

Cause I'm great.

I have a wonderful life.

I don't need anybody, but I am also a Pisces and a romantic at heart.

So,

you know, I also want to say that it's okay to not date and to just focus on yourself.

I think there's a little bit of a stigma around that too.

It's like, well, you got to get out there again.

And you don't have to.

I think it also depends on how important like physical touch is to you.

Oh, 100%.

In my experience with friends of mine that are breaking up or getting divorced or trying to be on their own, owning the idea that like you deserve to be snuggled, but you don't have to sell yourself to that person entirely with a contract called marriage.

That is still

not.

I don't know what to call it.

Not taboo, but you know, it's still something to confront during a breakup like that, that like oh i actually don't need to consign myself to this person or the situation yeah i used to go get massages all the time when i was getting broken up with or or leaving a marriage just to have that kind of physical connection Yeah, it's really important.

It is.

And, you know, I also think like my mom and my stepdad, they've been together 30 years.

They didn't get married.

And my grandparents were the same.

And I think that there's a place for marriage, but I don't really know why I would get married.

I have my kids.

I have my business.

Like, I'm happy to meet somebody, but you know what?

It has to be somebody that makes sense.

And

your life seems good.

Oh, my gosh.

I am so proud of you.

Oh, thanks, Jane.

I'm proud of you.

And I'm so, I mean, I appreciate this so much.

It's been quite a journey for us.

And so anytime we can talk about it, I just appreciate it so much.

I just want it to get bigger and bigger and for people to understand that.

I know.

At least in this one area, if you can't talk to your parents or your friends about this, that there is a place to go.

Oh, I appreciate that.

Thank you both so much.

That's it for this week.

We have a tip line open.

Call us at 323-248-1488.

323-248-1488.

And leave us a message about anything that you think is funky out there.

What's going on, guys?

Talk Talk to me.

AI is transforming customer service.

It's real and it works.

And with Finn, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service.

We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses.

This includes the real world complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order.

And we also see it when Finn goes up against competitors.

It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard.

And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all.

Check it out for yourself at Finn.ai.

This is Hannah Berner from Giggly Squad.

OPill is the first over-the-counter daily birth control pill available in the US.

Let's be real, getting a birth control prescription is not always easy and it's so much admin.

In fact, about a third of women face barriers to access prescription birth control.

Between scheduling appointments, missing work, class, or just trying to exist, it's a lot.

But now OPIL is putting birth control in our control.

OPIL is a daily birth control that's FDA approved, full prescription strength and estrogen-free, and 98% effective when used as directed.

Grab it online or at most major retailers, no prescription or doctor's appointment needed.

So if you're thinking about birth control, check out Opil to see see if it's right for you.

Use code GIGLI for 25% off your first month of Opil at O-P-I-L-L.com.

That's codeGIGLIE at opi.com.

Birth control in your control.

We love to see it.

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy.

It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way.

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too.

Ah, really?

Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy.

What's in your wallet?

Terms apply.

See capital one.com/slash bank.

Capital One NA member FDIC.

Hey, dream listeners, it's finally here.

The dream plus, where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads.

It's $5 a month.

It's the only tier.

No commercials.

Plus, bonus content.

This helps keep us independent.

And your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream.

We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us.

We're also going to have an amazing discussion board.

The interface has it cataloged under AMA, Ask Me Anything.

But I don't love rules.

So what I did is started a bunch of threads like ask Dan and I questions, general chit chat, just to make friends and stuff.

And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Be Shopping, and it's there.

And we're just going to talk about what we bought.

It'll be fun.

That's the dream.s-u-p-e-r-ca-st-t dot com.

Supercast.

Please, please go subscribe.

It's five bucks.

It's less than a latte if you live in Los Angeles.

See you there.