S3 E9: Coaching the Uncoachable

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Previously, on the dream.

The night before this hike or walk, whatever she wants to call it, happened, they were told to prioritize rest.

And I started getting mad.

I'm like, what?

And then this person starts to mention, well, I have diabetes.

I got to check my blood sugar.

And Sasha and I looked at each other like, nobody mentioned diabetes.

Like we might actually kill people on this trip.

Like we literally thought that I was like, oh my God.

And I know this is a 15-hour situation, guys.

15 hours.

We're just getting started.

Yeah, okay.

I was getting a little spicy.

Gloria Swanson, star of Sunset Boulevard and a million other movies, had a conversation with Mike Wallace back in 1957, where she took a kind of roundabout way of saying what I've been and what I think we've all been feeling about the state of the world and our place in it lately.

Let us take the Roaring 20s.

You know, the Roaring 20s, that was all over the world.

It wasn't just in a little tiny spot out out there in California

gaiety and a sense of freedom and abandonment was everywhere in the world and everybody seemed to have a feeling of

freedom that doesn't exist today now there's pressures there are higher taxes there there are other concerns there there are there is perhaps more conformity yes I think so I mean much more for instance this is now the United States is a country of do-it-yourself well I'm so exhausted from doing it myself right now that I had to go to a hospital to lie down.

Somebody said I had a nervous breakdown.

They said I had, I don't know, hurt my leg, something else, something else.

But I went there because I was exhausted doing everything myself.

Me too, Gloria.

Nowadays, we're not even allowed to take grippy socks vacations by choice.

She never knew how good she had it.

At any rate, I agree with her.

Something has gone awry in the story we tell ourselves about being American.

And it's been hard to find the right person or group to be mad at about things as giant as capitalism or meritocracy or bootstrap thinking.

The hardest workers reaping the highest rewards.

It's a total sham.

But it's like a religion here, something you must have faith in, because if it isn't true, at least you worked hard.

And if it is true, you win.

I guess I'm mad at all of us for keeping up this facade.

And I'm mad at the self-help and coaching industry for repackaging the idea and selling it back to us as empowerment and, you know, like fulfilling our own personal manifest destinies.

But it's boring to listen to someone fight with an entire ideology most people adhere to, right?

Lucky for me, one person came forward during our reporting that I could point my ire at.

So I'm Jesse Lee Ward.

Jesse Lee Ward from episode one, the business coach who took a bunch of her paying clients on a hike in Columbia that was only supposed to be two hours, but lasted forever.

Some people know me as Boss Lee or the people's mentor, you know, but at any rate, so I do a lot of things, sure, but I am the number one network marketer in the world.

I also have an education company where I do coach entrepreneurs how to build and scale their businesses.

And I'm a dog mom, most importantly.

No, I'm kidding.

But I'm just a serial entrepreneur.

entrepreneur really and I guess that's the easiest way to say it and then I'll let you take the conversation wherever you'd like to.

After we heard the story about the Columbian expedition Jesse Lee took her coaching clients on, we put a request in through her office for an interview.

In the request, we named our show, talked about our previous seasons, and sent them links.

Months went by, and then one day, a miracle happened.

They wrote us back and said, yes, she would give us an interview with a condition.

They said we could only have 30 minutes of her time for free.

And if we go over, she would have to charge us.

Which I don't know if you know, but I can't pay people to be on this show.

It's unethical.

So we said, no, we're good with 30, even though I'm not, and sent him a release which explains that the interview will be used for this show, The Dream.

It took them a minute, but the morning of the interview, they finally sent a signed copy.

We were good to go.

I was going to speak with the boss Lee, and I was a wreck about it.

See, recently, Jesse Lee announced that she's been diagnosed with cancer, a scary one.

She talks about it a lot on social media, and in the hours leading up to our chat, I had the kind of anxiety that makes you poop.

Like, I was pretty suspicious of her, didn't love her vibe from what I'd seen and heard, but no one wants to be mean to a cancer patient, you know?

So I was in knots, just trying to psych myself up to be cheery while also holding her to account.

So I did a few little cries, pooped again, and then got on the call.

So yeah, we're going to talk about coaching and a little bit about MLMs and stuff today.

But I just wanted to let you know before we get started here that if there's a question you don't want to answer or don't have an answer to or don't know what I'm talking about, we can just move right on.

Okay, I'm pretty open, so I'm not too worried about it.

But yeah.

I have 28 minutes left in our conversation to see about that.

So what does number one network marketer in the world mean or how do you measure that?

Yeah, sure.

So first of all, that I know of, at least reported, I'm the highest earner in network marketing, which is how some people would say is what some people would say is most important.

I actually don't think that's the most important metric to measure something like that.

I think it's more important to pay attention to the influence that somebody has.

So, I'm on all of the biggest stages and have been now for six years straight.

So, I have a lot of influence over the actual profession itself.

And then,

and I guess I'm just kind of really well known.

So, that could also just be where that comes from.

But, but I'm sort of the face of the profession.

So I think that's where that where that comes from.

Have you always been like this?

Like, did you want to be president growing up or anything like that?

I find that a lot of people who make it big in some field have just been born that way.

I never wanted to be president.

Leadership came, I think, from being thrust into leadership more than, oh, I was a born leader.

I don't think I can agree with that so much.

But here I am, vice president of my network marketing company, almost president of the world.

No, I'm kidding.

Can you tell me how you got thrust into that other career?

Like, what was the day or a moment where it was like, oh, now you have to get on stage?

Yeah.

My first timing on stage, it really was a thrust into kind of thing.

It was one of these things where the CEO of a company said, what are you doing?

Why is your business growing so fast?

I want you to speak at this regional event.

I was like, speak at a regional event.

I don't know how to speak at a regional event.

But luckily, I had...

In the college I went to, you had to take public speaking as a semester.

Everybody had to.

And most people had panic attacks when they had to do public speaking 101.

And I rather rather liked it.

I thought it was pretty cool.

I liked the idea of writing speeches and, you know, the voice inflections and the adding the humor and watching the audience pay attention instead of boring them and like feeding off their energy and all of this.

I think empathic people can be really, really good at public speaking.

So, and then I became a corporate trainer.

And I got to kind of travel the world doing that.

Not the world.

What am I talking about?

I got to travel Tennessee and Ohio and Indiana doing

that.

You know, just like in small town USA, basically.

And then I started getting asked from big companies that weren't even in the network marketing space, hey, would you come speak for my company?

Hi, I heard that you can scale businesses.

Hey, I heard you're the social media girl who's unbelievable.

Can you teach us?

Can you teach my company how to grow social media?

Hey, and I just kept saying yes, and people would pay and pay and pay and pay and pay.

And I started realizing, whoa, I'm really good at this.

And people get a lot of results doing this.

And people ask me constantly, will you coach me?

Will you coach me?

Will you coach me?

And I said, gee,

am I a coach?

Good lord.

But I love it.

It's really turned into a huge passion project.

I'm kind of obsessed with it.

Are you expensive?

I don't think so.

Actually, I know I'm underpriced.

I'm pretty underpriced.

I'm really underpriced according to my coach.

I should raise my prices.

That's a good point.

I'm the person always telling people to raise their prices.

When I found out what my coach was charging me, I was like, that's not enough.

Like $85 an hour or something.

I was like, that's ridiculous.

What are you, what?

Wow.

And I understand I'm, I'm, I'm hurting myself here by telling you you're not charging enough.

No, I actually appreciate you even saying that.

Like, I love this conversation.

This is an important conversation for people to hear.

So it's like, I really truly believe that you get what you pay for in anything.

So, and it's stupid.

It's almost stupid what I'm about to say.

I know that I pay my coach $30,000 an hour.

I'm not exaggerating.

Okay.

So I know.

But I don't think funny about the results I get from having this guy coach me.

Okay.

It's ridiculous.

It's like I'm able to tap into the network.

I'm able to tap into his brain.

I'm able to tap into his expertise.

He's built things that I've wanted to build.

And he helps and he guides me.

It's a time machine.

You know, you don't know how much time you have on this earth.

Nobody does.

So why are you daddling around, wasting your time, time, time trying to figure everything out when you're staring at somebody who's done exactly what you want to do?

Hire them.

All right.

So we're chatting and I assume that Jesse Lee knew what show she was on since we'd sent her a bunch of information about it.

But it became clear as soon as I asked the next question she had no idea who she was talking to um i you know i'm just to be completely transparent i have a book coming out in march um um on atria and i have this show where i talk a lot about anti-mlm stuff um mostly just the why does this industry exist where like no one really makes any money but people just keep signing up anyway.

Like it seemed like the dominant narrative should be like the true narrative.

Would you just give me your take on the industry?

Because you said you're a real proponent of it.

Sure.

I love your honesty in saying that off the bat.

So I think it's like anything.

You know, I think some people are going to suck at everything they try to do except for what they're made to do.

And then some people are going to be great at it.

I also think not everybody has work ethic, but they want to compare things like they do.

I don't think everybody has talent.

I don't think everybody has skill sets.

I don't think everybody's willing to learn.

And that's not just network marketing.

So it's like I look at waiting tables.

Why was I the waitress that could always make way more money than everybody else?

Well, I was personable.

I was likable, I got to know people, I was smiling, I was charismatic, I got to know the menu better, I would upsell, I would cross-sell, I would take extra shifts, I would do what people weren't willing to do.

Well, I look at how I'm going to be in network marketing.

I joined, I said, oh, one percent of people can make a million dollars a year, I'm gonna be the person that makes a million dollars a year.

I put in more hours, I went to more events, I took more trainings, I spent a lot more time, I made a lot more sacrifices, I got in all the right rooms, I did all the right things, I treated it like a business.

And so, I look at a lot of people who join network marketing, and the big problem with network marketing is it's an even playing field, Nobody asks any questions.

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They just say, Oh, hey, you have $700, you're qualified.

So can I ask about your style of coaching?

I've watched a lot of your videos and I feel like your style is, I don't want to say aggro, but you're very boisterous.

You're very, you're kind of tough.

Was that a choice?

Or is that just like how you naturally are?

Can I ask you a question?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you, do you pay for my coaching?

Do I pay for your coaching?

Yeah, like, are you in the accelerator program?

No.

My coaching's not boisterous.

Oh, it isn't.

Yeah.

No.

That's so funny.

Do you tell people that when they sign up?

Like, you're not going to get the same thing that you see online.

No, because that wouldn't be accurate either.

I think that it's important to realize that what you see on social media tends to be a snippet of somebody's personality or like a little glimpse into their life.

But inside of my coaching, it is very tactical.

It is super, super kind, loving, open, empathetic, listening.

It is responsive into what people need, especially in my platinum coaching.

It's super conversational.

But I think I'm really different than people assume I am from the internet anyhow.

So when you get to know me.

I think so.

I mean, probably.

Like if I like, I go through the videos and look, it's like you talk a mile and a minute and you're very excited and you feel and it feels like really intense.

even like short videos.

So that's why, that's, I think, why I was making that assumption.

It's not like a tender kind of caretake vibe that some coaches have, you know, like, oh, well, I'm not like a, I'm not a spirituality coach.

I mean, I'm not a, I don't claim to be like a feminine energy coach.

I don't claim to be, you know, someone who's going to

just talk about how beautiful you are and wonderful you are and want to cuddle you.

I'm the coach that you would hire if you're looking for actual results.

So that I will say is true.

But maybe that's why I attract males and females.

I don't just attract women.

Like I don't, I see a lot of these spirituality coaches right now, which nothing wrong with them, of course, because that's their niche.

Right.

And they say, you know, join me and I'm going to teach you how to become more spiritual and more in alignment with your life.

And

that's just not what you're, if you, if you hire me as your coach and the accelerator, you're going to learn business skills.

I'm going to show you how to make money.

Right.

I'm going to show you how to,

I'm going to show you how to, how to, you know, take your business to the next level.

We're not going to sit around and kumbaya.

If that's what you're looking for, I don't know.

I don't even know who to refer you to.

Guys, I was trying, but the energy had shifted.

So I was like, fuck it.

Yeah.

Couple questions because we got like five, six minutes left.

One, I did hear all about the Columbia trip.

Any more notes on that?

I saw some of your response videos, but I'm not like on in Facebook or anything.

So I don't really know.

much about that other than there was like a lot of chatter on TikTok about it being kind of brutal.

Sure.

Yeah.

Well, what have you, what have you heard?

I want to know about the trip because it sounds like

it sounds like people on TikTok think they were on the trip.

Yeah, that it was a lot like that there was a just a brutal hike and it was a lot more

intense and people weren't prepared for it, basically.

I talked to Aaron.

Well, I've noticed that I talked to Aaron Bees a bit about it, but I've, I've, there's been plenty of people chit-chatting.

Was she on the trip?

I think I was on the trip, but I'm not, I don't, I don't remember her being on the trip.

She wasn't, no.

Interesting.

So TikTok journalism and YouTube journalism are very interesting to me because it seems to me like there tends to be little to no research done whatsoever.

And a lot of crazy, salicious stories come out because they get views, right?

And views make you money.

I also find it interesting that these people have to use my name in order to get any views, but I guess that's...

I guess that's kind of normal, right?

So first thing I would do, if I were to call Columbia an aggressive hike, is I'd probably check the topography of Cartagena.

Cartagena has no hills.

Has no mountains.

How could it be a brutal hike?

I don't know.

I'm not sure where exactly it was, but I know that's the town you were staying in, but I don't know.

I don't know exactly where it was.

The entire topography of the entire region of Cartagena has no hills, no mountains.

So immediately, Andrew.

Second thing is nobody asked if anybody had

asked anything about maybe waivers or asked about health anything or asked about going on the trip or what kind of trip it was, because everybody who talked about it wasn't on the trip.

But we heard those salicious details from Jesse Lee herself, remember?

We planned to make them walk five kilometers in direct sunlight on the side of a Columbian road.

And so, the first day we were chilling in our flipping 12-bedroom villa.

Day two, I tricked them even more, to be totally honest.

I rented a boat for the day.

We're gonna go on a hike tomorrow, you know, prepare for like two hours.

And look, I knew it wasn't two hours, okay?

And we said, if anybody asks throughout the entire day, how much longer?

We said, you have to say, we're almost there.

So even if they asked 20 minutes in, how much longer, we're almost there.

We're almost there.

We planned it to be like this because the whole thing was I wanted to break people.

So I don't really feel any need to defend myself about something that was an unbelievable leadership experience of people who, all 16 people, had an amazing time, made content about how incredible it was, made content about how much it shifted them as leaders.

The one person that's a diabetic has had stable sugars ever since then, has completely transformed her entire life, and credits a lot of it to that trip.

So, if I'm supposed to apologize for it, no, no, no, I don't, I don't, I don't think I was asking for that.

I was just asking what your perspective, or you know, just what your experience was.

My perspective is that it sounds like people with very bad journalism have gotten in your ear, and it's kind of unfortunate.

I don't know if you caught it, but Jesse Lee essentially said that this hike cured someone of their diabetes.

That's the kind of loaded language gurus often use, and you have to be on the lookout for it.

It's sneaky.

And then just a few minutes before the end of our time together, my phone started blowing up with text messages from people I'd talked to this season telling me that Jesse Lee Ward was live broadcasting our entire conversation on social media.

I had no idea.

Not only did she not tell me she'd be doing that, she didn't do me the courtesy I'd extended to her and try to obtain my permission.

I didn't know what to do, but chose not to spend the last few minutes in a fruitless argument.

So I turned back to our topic.

When I was thinking about getting a coach, I wanted someone to like call me every single morning and tell me what to do with my, with my day.

Like at nine o'clock, you're going to do this.

At 10 o'clock, you're going to do this.

At 11 o'clock, like.

How specific is it and how much hand holding is there?

And do you have, can you give us like a little peek into what, like the skills that you're teaching, what they are?

So you're not, you're not going to be at mindset coaching unless you're in silver.

Silver is specifically for mindset.

In the gold, this is skill-based.

So my gold training, which is my middle, my middle-level training, this is exact tactics.

This is not fru-fro,

you know, take control of your life.

Or no, uh-uh.

This is your A through Z.

This is what you need to do to do this.

And then my platinum coaching, these are high-level people.

I don't believe high-level people need somebody to call them.

Like, the thought of me hiring a coach to call me every day and tell me how to do my day-like, girl, no, I don't, I don't need that.

Like, I'm highly motivated.

I'm highly inspired.

I'm highly excited about my life.

I've never needed somebody to say, hi, okay, now let's have a miracle morning and let's move our body and let's drink some water and let's brush our teeth and let's now go to the kitchen and make our juice.

No, must be nice to see you.

You're looking for a babysitter.

I am.

I am.

I'm looking for like a babysitter or a wife.

I just want, I do want someone to take charge of all that stuff.

Please be honest.

Please be honest.

And I feel successful.

I do feel successful and happy in my career at the same time.

But I would prefer to be taken, you know, for that stuff to not be on my plate.

Well, then.

You need an assistant.

You don't need a coach.

You need an assistant.

That's true.

That's true.

Okay.

All right.

I'll put a call out.

I mean, you're never going to have a coach who's going to, like, that's.

Yeah.

Or maybe a therapist.

I don't don't know.

I have one of those.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I like the practical skills, though, that you're talking about teaching.

All right.

Is there anything else that I'm missing or that you would, you want to talk about before we, um, before we end the call here?

I don't think so.

Yeah.

No, I don't know.

This has been really fun.

It's fun to speak to you in person.

It feels

like kind of bizarre because I only know you from the internet.

Yeah.

So

people only know me through the internet.

That's okay, though.

That's where you can start the relationship and then take it where you want to take it.

One of the difficulties in interviewing a person who does public speaking for a living is that they're pretty rehearsed.

They have all their talking points down.

So it was a bit difficult to get her to loosen up, say something off the cuff.

But after we hung up, her live broadcast kept going, and she and her assistant relaxed a bit.

Carissa had a bad feeling about these people.

I was like, oh, they're anti-MOMers.

No to self, do not subscribe to this podcast, Leah says.

Is that for real?

Was she for real?

Oh, gosh.

But listen, they try to rattle you.

This is kind of like their thing.

And

it's impossible when you stand in your truth, right?

So,

yeah, she's looking for a babysitter or something.

I'm not totally sure what she's looking for, but

nothing I do is scammy.

And to call me an aggressive coach when she's never paid me a dime.

And I like how, did you notice how the her internet cut out?

Like, God was like, no, bitch.

Did you notice that?

Did y'all notice that?

I think she was prepared, but she really thought that I was going to stumble.

I don't stumble.

All right.

That got me all razzle-dazzled for the day.

I feel like I'm excited now.

Okay, so we're going to to have an excited day.

And I'll be back later with a podcast that they're not going to try to attack me on.

Okay?

All right.

And I hope she does not send me her book.

Because you shouldn't burn books.

Have a good one.

She talked about me with her followers on lives for the next couple of days while she was cooking or juicing or whatever.

You watched the interview the lady did with me.

It was hilarious.

You're so awesome.

Like, once I realized what she was doing, I realized that what she wanted was for me to get mad so I could fulfill some kind of narrative of hers that I'm some like she said boisterous tough Aggressive are the words three of the words she used to describe me

person and coach and if you've ever been coached by me

like I'm guessing some of you probably have

those are not words that I would use to describe me and then she tried to say oh so you're false advertising and I'm like

you need to get lost.

I believe what she was referring to with the false advertising thing was the moment I asked her if she tells her paying clients essentially that she's like a totally different person behind closed doors.

So if you want to be stupid, which she clearly does, just keep being stupid.

And apparently,

I think she lied, but she said, she told Carissa that she's an Emmy award-winning journalist.

That's what it says on, also on Wikipedia and her Twitter, I think.

And her Wikipedia and her Twitter, which we will not provide you with because we are not going to promote such a clearly,

you just know, inept human.

But we couldn't find the Emmy, so I guess I'm going to call myself an Oscar-winning, Emmy-winning, Grammy-winning artist.

I'm a Grammy-winning artist because I say so.

Okay?

It was awful to listen to it yesterday, though.

Your 12-year-old could have done better.

I don't disagree with you.

I like how much she stumbled.

I like when you

make them squam a little bit.

You make them squim.

Alright.

So after this, I'm going to do the citrus and I'll answer some more questions for y'all.

If you have them.

Or we can talk about that crazy lady.

I don't even know if she knew that I was streaming live.

Like, I don't think she does her research.

And

so I don't think she knew that every time I do an interview.

Then later on that day, she called me a dingleberry.

So number one, fuck her.

At least I had the balls to say everything to her face.

And Jesse Lee and Jesse Lee's assistant, Wikipedia where you say you looked me up contains footnotes down.

You got to scroll a little ways, but it's kind of down at the bottom.

Well, you can see them because they're embedded in the article.

If you want to find all my accolades, that's where they would be.

But number two, this got me thinking about the success at all costs mentality we've been looking into this season.

Napoleon Hill, Ray Higdon.

Jesse Lee Ward.

They all have this eat or be eaten attitude, and they all seem to have really bought into the idea that in order for them to win, someone else must lose.

And that it's funny if someone else loses, and it's fun to get over on someone you think is a loser and make fun of them for being a loser.

But I'll admit, it's not the best feeling to listen to someone call you names for days on end.

I'll be okay.

And I really hope Jesse Lee is fine too, and that all the woo-woo stuff you read about negative attitudes feeding cancer cells isn't true.

After that whole thing, I just wanted wanted someone to say I was doing okay.

So I asked my coach.

After our final workout, my coach Jesse and I sat down to talk about how I did over these past six months.

Just tell me how I'm doing.

I'm going to stop and catch my breath first because we don't need me in the background like,

you're doing great.

No, honestly,

I'm very proud of you.

Like the way that you just let go of the fast food,

you prioritized yourself.

You said, this is it.

I'm going to go with it.

You were a little hesitant about doing the whole tumor surgery.

But when you knew that even changing your diet didn't make you feel good,

I think that you were like, okay, you know what?

I need to do everything that she's telling me to do because she knows best and she sees something that I'm not seeing.

Before you start feeling good, there was a lot of turbulence, which is normal, you know, resistance.

I don't want this.

And it's all normal.

But you worked, you went through all the motions and look at where you are now.

You look

alive.

Thank you.

Not that.

I'm feeling a lot better.

I'm feeling a lot better.

You look alive.

You look,

you still look like you're like working on it.

And I'm sure you're hearing a lot of different great things.

But I really,

you know,

but I feel like you're moving in the right direction and you're so

different.

Instead of not believing,

you're open.

And that is huge.

I think that that is

what is making all of this work.

The fact that you're open.

You know what?

Let's me do it just

so I can say I did it and no, it doesn't work or yes, it does work.

But not doing it because like, ah, yeah, that sounds like

that was you before.

Now you're just like, let me try.

And trying

has gotten you this far.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's all the energy that you put into it.

Yeah.

So if you're hopeful and you're doing it with love and

one great foot in front of the other, step by step, this is where you get.

Well, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I know.

I'm very proud of you.

Like, honestly, like, without saying your name to a lot of clients, you know, I always like to use you as an example.

I'm just like, this woman stopped.

She just stopped.

She just stopped eating fast food because she cared so much about herself.

But there's one thing that always makes you strong.

And for you, it was your daughter.

The love that you have for your daughter.

And as much as she needs you in her life, gave you the strength.

That fear became fuel yeah you're fueled with love

so when we first started I have to admit there was like a moment where I was like scared

this is maybe not gonna make any sense but I got like a little freaked out like I was

like maybe this was like culty

I'm not

yeah I mean I was afraid of like losing control.

Like, I don't like giving over control.

But it was the opposite.

It was completely the opposite.

I gave you all control.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And yeah, you know, I guess I sound a little culty because I always like go back, like metaphysical stuff.

And, you know, and that seems a little culty.

You know, when someone connects to like their inner light, it's like, ah, fuck, this woman is like, she's going to come out with mushrooms and she's going to come out with this shit.

And like, at least with my practice, I know that for me, love means

everything.

Everything.

That for me, God is love.

This universe is love.

Light is love.

Everything comes from love.

So if I'm able to just give it to you, and sometimes that can be culti-like.

Because you're like, why the fuck is this woman giving me so much love?

Well, I love you now.

I love you now.

I mean, it's like, she's like, yeah, it's okay.

I like that we've gotten to know each other and I feel like we're friends now.

We are, we are.

And months later.

Months later, yeah.

And I understand that I come across like, you know, like, okay, just self-love yourself and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

But I'm really hard ass.

I'm just like, we, I help you find your way.

You're finally feeling this self-beautiful love that you are.

And Jane,

you're pretty badass.

You really are.

At the beginning of this, I said I would hate if someone called me badass.

I said it on tape.

And you're so fucking.

You are.

Thank you.

And enjoy it.

You know what I mean?

I know.

I gotta go finish a book now.

Like me at the beginning of this experiment, Jesse Lee derided people like my coach who, quote, sit around and kumbaya.

But over the past six months, I've come to realize I super prefer that to sitting around and counting dollars.

Not that I know from experience.

So what?

My coach is a little hokeish-pokish.

At least she's kind and thoughtful.

There's something at the heart of the coaching world, at the heart of manifesting and positive thinking and all that, that my coach would never ascribe to.

And that's the idea that if you are smart and have the right mindset, you will live in a mansion.

And that you should want to live in a mansion if you're smart and have the right mindset.

That having an attitude of gratitude will bring abundance.

And that the proof that you have the wrong attitude and that you're an idiot is that you belong to the 99%.

Not once did my coach suggest thinking and growing rich or leveling up.

We made tiny changes to my life, I mean like the size of a taco, that really improved my outlook and my health, without cheering each other on for climbing over the rest of the caterpillars to reach some unknown reward at the top of the pile.

That's a reference to the 1973 illustrated book, Hope for the Flowers, that puts everything I'm thinking very plainly and beautifully.

The real reward is becoming a butterfly without being a dick about it.

The Dream is written, hosted, and executive produced by me, Jane Marie.

Our producer is Mike Richter with help from Nancy Golumbiski and Joy Sanford.

Our editor is Peter Clowney.

The Dream is a co-production of Little Everywhere and Pushkin Industries.

From Pushkin Industries, special thanks to Farah deGrange, Jake Flanagan, Lital Malad, Greta Cohn, Jacob Smith, Eric Sandler, Key Raposy, Isabella Narvaz, and Jordan McMillan.

AI is transforming customer service.

It's real and it works.

And with Finn, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service.

We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses.

This includes the real-world, complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order.

And we also see it when Finn goes up against competitors.

It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard.

And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all.

Check it out for yourself at fin.ai

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The interface has it cataloged under AMA, Ask Me Anything.

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So what I did is started a bunch of threads like ask Dan and I questions, general chit chat, just to make friends and stuff.

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