Fix Your Back Pain Without Surgery: RehabFix Founder Reveals How | Dr. Grant Elliott | EP 75

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Movement is medicine.

Motion is lotion.

Rest is rust.

Everybody feels better with movement.

Not all movements, because just as though there will be specific movements of your spine that can increase your pain, there will be specific moves that decrease your pain.

So movement as an entire category is the key to staying pain-free, to being healthy.

Vast majority of individuals, oh, when I'm moving, I feel better.

When I go on walks, I feel better.

When I'm active, I feel better.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

That's not saying every exercise, every movement at any time is the perfect thing for you.

That is not accurate.

There's going to be certain movements that can help.

There's going to be certain movements that can hurt, but we want to move generally.

What is up, entrepreneur DNA?

What is happening?

Super excited to have this guest on.

If you are like me and you are a hard driving entrepreneur, you're traveling a lot, you're on planes, maybe you're not working out as much as you want to be working out and you're starting to feel some neck pain, some back pain some pain in general as you see my guy grant elliott rehab fix on instagram is here to help us all with some of this stuff what's up dude what's up man i'm excited to do this because we were just talking offline i have a ruptured c5 c6 i have a ruptured s what it was s6 lower back a ruptured you know S something.

So I've been in pain for years.

And you are the guy.

You have one of the largest programs out there helping individuals remove back pain, neck pain.

Anyone who doesn't know you needs to go to RehabFix on Instagram.

At least go check this guy out.

His platform is massive.

He has one of the largest programs out there for people like us listening to this and watching this.

But dude, this is a topic that needed to be touched on for all these entrepreneurs out there.

Absolutely.

And I'm stoked to help people with it because low back pain is the number one disability in the world.

80% of people alive will experience low back pain at some point in their life.

And the way society has conditioned a lot of us to think is that immediately, rest, here's the drug, here's the injection.

If that doesn't work, here's the surgery.

When in reality, the vast, vast, vast majority can be completely resolved with movement.

And I'm here to spread the amazing life of movement to teach people how to fix themselves and avoid those things.

And so you do a great job social media-wise, right?

Rehab Fix.

You have almost a million people following you, all of your posts.

And by the way, as someone that is a new friend to you, like I'm watching you and I'm doing all your stretches and all your movements, I mean, but it's practical stuff you're showing on Instagram, right?

Rehab Fix, again, go to rehab fix on Instagram, but like this is stuff all of us can do.

I don't care, you know, my excuse

used to be like I travel a lot.

It's very hard to get to the gym all the time.

It's very hard to do, you literally could be in a cubicle and do these movements.

Yep.

We have people in cubicles moving movements, not making excuses.

We've had labor-intensive construction workers who like the guys you see out there paving roads, getting off to the side, getting in the grass or on the sidewalk, doing our stuff, sending us videos of them doing it, making no excuse, but making opportunities to fix their body, get out of pain, and live the life that they want.

Yeah, you and I, we agree on one thing in a big way.

We were talking about it a little offline here.

It's just kind of this mental frame of understanding that it all comes down to excuses, right?

And understanding if you can control your mindset that I no longer want to be in pain, I no longer want to be immobile.

I no longer want to make excuses, you can actually change your whole physical outlook on all of this, right?

You can get back into shape.

You can get out of pain, but it just starts with your mindset of what you're going to be able to do.

Yep.

Yep.

And that drives through business too.

We talk about mindset in business, limiting beliefs, what you believe you can achieve versus where you're capped.

And especially with pain and physicality, yeah, a lot of people who slowly start to develop pain, they become very complacent in that and they start to develop a mindset that, oh, this is just like how I feel now.

And they start to not believe that they can actually get out of pain.

Or maybe everything they've heard about back pain or neck pain or disc issues.

Oh, I've heard that once you have a disc issue, that's it.

You're done.

Like you just have it for the rest of your life.

And none of these things are true.

Absolutely none of them.

You can absolutely resolve it all the time.

These things are highly recoverable.

It's a matter of believing you can get better, but then taking action steps to get better.

Yeah.

And so let's even talk.

I'll use me as an example, because there's many people out there probably listening and watching this that has some level of what I've gone through.

So most recently, a year and a half ago, I ruptured my C5C6, which is, you'll know, but it's at the base of my neck, right?

And so excruciating pain.

I literally thought I broke my neck, by the way.

I wish I had a really awesome story.

Like I was shoulder pressing 500 pounds, bro.

I was crying.

I wish I had something cooler than the real story, which was I was rolling over in bed at two in the morning.

That's what ruptured my disc.

Uh, and I literally thought I broke my neck.

I jumped out of bed, yelping.

My wife has never seen me in pain.

I hide pain pretty well.

And uh, like, she thought I was dying.

She was like terrified, like screaming, like, what do I, you know, and I'm in the most pain of my life.

And if no one's gone through neck pain versus back pain, I've gone through both.

It's not, it's, they both suck.

neck pain for me was like the worst pain by far i've ever felt in my life it was an unreal um

and then i've done i think it was what what is the lower back s 6x you're probably referring to l5s1

l5s1 there we go that's the exact one so uh

but both of them i ruptured in the easiest things like the my back i ruptured twice but one of them i was getting out of a plane seat i was getting out of my seat on a plane and ruptured the disc.

And so let's talk to that.

Like the pain sucks, yes, and we can talk through that, but like, why does this stuff happen

in the silliest times?

Like, neither of these stories are cool.

They're more like, are you joking?

You're rolling over in bed.

Why does that happen?

Yeah, you're absolutely not alone in this.

A lot of individuals will find that their neck or low back pain journey specifically will begin sometimes sneezing.

Like someone, like, I had allergies.

I sneezed really hard and then I felt a pop on my back.

And oh my gosh.

Or there could be someone who is an active gym goer.

They feel relatively strong and they bend forward to pick their phone off the ground or their kid off the ground.

Or even in some instances, Justin, some people are sitting on the toilet having to push a little bit too hard.

And that is the instance where something goes wrong.

And they're like, how is it that something so seemingly insignificant could result in so much pain and so much fear and all the different things that come with it.

And the truth is that although in those stories, these things can appear very acute in nature, like for yours, hey, I rolled in bed and that is what ruptured it, or I got out of airplane seat and that is what ruptured it.

Although that was the incident where the pain manifested, that is not often the instant where the problem occurred, meaning that about 90% of spine issues, lower lower back issues specifically are called nonspecific meaning they can't be traced to one single tissue or one single event because these types of issues are multifactorial they are insidious in nature meaning they develop over time a vast majority of the time so what typically happens is this is this occurs over a prolonged period of time of a combination of poor movement habits.

So we're not doing movements that we should be doing.

We are doing movements that we should not be doing.

Other factors could be inflammatory diets, could be poor sleep, could be poor stress management.

All of these things absolutely relate to the experience of pain.

And then the incident where then the injury occurs is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Because I speak a lot to low back pain, let's use your airplane ride, for instance.

Let's say over the last multiple months, we had not been giving our back what it needed to stay balanced and be be free and move the way that it wants to.

And we were sitting on a lot of extra planes.

We were sleeping worse.

We were eating worse.

And now our body's like, oh, this thing that was in the background is kind of coming to fruition.

And then long plane ride, get up the wrong way.

Then, oh, okay, now we feel it.

It's manifested.

It is triggered at that point.

And now we have the experience of pain.

So that is how these things develop.

They are multifaceted.

They're multifactorial.

It's not just one specific thing.

Yeah, you know, and let's lead into the next thing, which I thought was unique.

The doctor I originally saw, this is when I first did my back,

in Arizona, they, they were in alignment with everything you're saying is you a lot of times can just fix it through movement.

You know, and they definitely were like, almost nobody should be getting surgery.

There are extreme cases that fine, it will make sense.

But they really believed like if you can sustain the pain and then practice movement over time, you'll essentially cure yourself.

Right.

And so,

with that being said, I believe that's in direct alignment with what you would support.

Would you encourage people to get epidurals just for the pain to solve for the pain, or would you just say if you can get through it, get through it?

So, that can be a complex question and can have a complex answer.

So, I will

segment it in the most adjustable manner.

So, if we're purely talking about pain, is an epidural needed?

Well, that depends on the person you're asking the question.

If they prefer to not feel the pain and they don't have the right rehab plan to help them reduce their pain, then I would not blame someone for getting an epidural to feel less pain.

I would not blame them for doing that.

The flip side of that is there's an abundance of evidence that shows us that those who do pursue epidural ejections does lead to a higher risk of needing a surgery down the road.

It does lead that direction.

So we want to avoid these if we can.

The person's like, I have pain, I don't want pain.

Okay.

With that being said, injections are not 100% success rate.

Majority of them will help maybe two weeks and then they will fizzle out.

Some individuals have more success and some individuals have less success.

Now,

the clinical, here's the clinical answer.

We will advise individuals to get injections when it's actually needed.

So that's aside from pain.

So when is it needed if pain is not the number one focus?

If it's needed from a clinical standpoint, where we look for significant signs and symptoms that tell us that it is impacting a nerve

or your spinal cord to a degree that is necessitating it.

So what does that mean?

Okay, let's say I hurt my back.

It's been hurting for the last couple of weeks.

It's getting a little bit worse, getting a little bit worse, but I don't have a plan.

I'm not doing the right things.

I have no plan.

So it's getting worse.

And now my foot is starting to go numb.

Okay, well, inherently, that's not a big deal.

A lot of the people we talk to every day around the world have numbness and tingling in their foot or in their hands.

This alone is not a big deal.

It's the story around it.

So let's say they wake up one morning and the numbness is there on their foot.

And then the next day, it's significantly worse.

The next day, it's significantly worse.

It's rapidly progressive, rapidly spreading up their leg.

And now maybe they also have weakness in their toes, weakness in their foot.

The nerve is not getting the juice to the muscles.

That is indicating severe inflammation and encroachment on that nerve.

And so it's, it's compromising it and it's compromising the person.

That is generally a scenario where you would say, hey, these are rapidly progressive.

We need to reel this back quickly to get you in a state where we can still conservatively manage you.

So let's get an injection to immediately reduce the inflammation to the best chance that we can in this moment to stop this progression that we don't want to take place.

That doesn't mean they're done.

It gives us the opportunity to then focus on what the cure actually is, which is a proper movement-based rehab plan.

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That's right.

And I wanted to highlight that.

You know, you do a great job through your social media media rehab fix showing these movements, right?

And like we were talking about, like it's literally something you could do absolutely anywhere.

One thing I found is, is the more active I am, the less pain I am.

Now, I'm not talking about anything crazy.

I'm like, I'll just go and do a stair stepper just to keep going active and loosening up my muscles and do some light stretching.

I don't go over the top.

I don't need to be an Olympian.

It just reduces pain.

No.

No matter what.

Right.

And so let's talk to some, and visually, guys, we might be able to cut up some be real and put some cool stuff on social media here while he's talking.

But for the most part, right now, let's walk through some simple ways, lower back pain or anything else you want to touch on here that people can start to use stretching movement to their benefit.

Yeah,

movement is medicine, motion is lotion, rest is rust.

Everybody feels better with movement, Not all movements, because just as though there will be specific movements of your spine that can increase your pain, there will be specific movements that decrease your pain.

So movement as an entire category is the key to staying pain-free, to being healthy.

Vast majority of individuals, oh, when I'm moving, I feel better.

When I go on walks, I feel better.

When I'm active, I feel better.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

That's not saying every exercise, every movement at any time is the perfect thing for you.

That is not accurate.

There's going to be certain certain movements that can help.

There's going to be certain movements that can hurt, but we want to move generally.

So

something as simple as a morning and evening walk, early sun, evening sun can be incredibly impactful, not just for back pain, but for a multitude of reasons.

Circadian rhythm regulation, hormonal regulation,

seeing the sun, actually getting it in our eyes can promote stem cell production, wound healing,

a lot of awesome things.

Increased serotonin, decreased melatonin throughout the day will reduce your afternoon slumps better productivity this regulates our body we're meant to see the sun as it rises we're meant to see the sun as it sets so those are amazing things uh for that's multifaceted for entrepreneurs for sure but simply starting your day with movement getting your blood flowing getting getting fluid through and out of your discs and spine joints can be can be incredibly helpful.

And starting the day and ending the day with that is fantastic.

And then movements throughout the day.

Here's a bit of gold I will drop.

The vast majority of us sit in chairs all day.

And that's not inherently a bad thing.

And say, oh, sitting's new smoking.

Not really,

unless you're not doing any movement, you're not doing anything to counteract it.

Very.

And it is.

Our body doesn't like staying in one position for too long.

So the key is to get into frequent positions as much as we can.

So if you envision the shape of your body when you're sitting in a chair, that's the position your body is in most of the day.

A healthy joint is one that is exposed to all ranges of motion.

So if you just envision yourself sitting in your chair, the two main things you can look at are your hips are inflection, meaning your thighs are close to your abdomen, and then your back, your low back is typically rounded forward.

So let's think.

That's what my body is getting most of throughout the day.

So how can I keep my low back and hips as healthy as possible?

Give them the opposite to counterbalance it.

So I'm making this super simple.

If your hips are flexed most of the day, if your back is rounded most of the day, then you need to be taking movement breaks throughout the day that involve the opposite motions.

So hip extension, which would look like a typical hip flexor stretch.

There's many different ways to do it, though.

There's many different variations.

And then low back extension, moving the back backwards in an arched position.

These are

would a, would a, um, a lot of people sit on those big balls, right?

Would maybe rolling, putting your back on it and just kind of rolling and shit.

Like, would that be pretty?

Should I feel cracking?

I would open your back.

It would open your hips.

You're really kind of like, I feel like there's a lot of people out there listening like, oh, I sit on that every day because it's better for you.

But even something like that is an easy cure.

Absolutely.

It is, it is accomplishing both of those things.

It's putting your hips into extension and your low back into extension.

Another is laying on the ground, performing a cobra pose repetitively.

That's arching your back.

So the simplest thing here is just think about and other people might have different demands on their job so just think what are what are the position your spine is in the most start to give it more of the opposite and you're going to start to feel better

what are some maybe what are some do don't do's right so like what are some movement if you're already in pain you want to avoid because i think you're going to have hundreds of opportunities to show them what they could be doing.

But I also want them to like, what are the two, three, four things like, do not do, if you are in back pain, do not be deadlifting, right?

As an example, right?

Or what would be some of the don't do's?

Yep.

So this will always be context specific, as always.

So I will provide a broad example.

So anyone listening, don't think this is a catch-all.

It is not a catch-all.

It's always, always a situation dependent.

So there's nuance.

There's always nuance.

So first, I'm going to start with a principle, a principle.

What do you not want to do?

Well, one, you don't want to be afraid of moving.

Okay.

So although i'm going to talk about movements that we might not want to do we do want to fear movement what does fearing movement do in leaning towards rest i'm just going to rest i'm not going to move my back hurts i'm not going to do anything that is the fastest way to develop chronic pain and to hold on to this for life because what fearing movement and not doing movement does is it starts to rewire our brain and our nervous system to be programmed that if i do things then i will feel pain And if you tell yourself that enough, your brain's going to memorize it.

And it develops what's called fear avoidance behaviors.

So let's say I hurt my back bending forward.

And then I go, I'm not going to bend forward at all for the next three days.

I'm terrified of bending forward.

And the next thing you know, you haven't bent your spine for three months.

You're rewiring your brain to understand that.

That is a fear-based emotion.

I should not do that.

So now I'm avoiding flexion.

I'm not doing it.

I'm afraid of it.

Every time I do it, I feel pain because that's what my nervous system learned to do.

That is not a good thing.

So do not fear movement.

Now, what are some actual movements that people should not do?

Let me speak to the most common type of low back pain presentation.

The most common type is what we call flexion intolerant lower back pain, meaning flexion, bending forward.

So bending forward motions of the spine is not friendly.

It does not tolerate this.

So if you are someone, listen up, if these symptoms hit home for you, then you're who I'm talking about.

If you're someone where the longer you sit, the more your low back hurts, bending forward to put socks and shoes on, on, oh, that's way harder than it should be.

Or you've been sitting for a long time and you go to stand up, but it takes you like a few seconds to stand up straight.

You feel like you're kind of stuck forward like an old man.

This is a flexion intolerant low back issue.

So if we know that flexion, bending forward, exacerbates your symptoms.

It intensifies your symptoms, then we don't want to do more.

of what's causing the stress.

So we don't want to do more flexion-based movements.

So that would be hamstring stretches.

Wait, hamstrings?

I thought you were talking about the back.

Yeah, but what position is your spine in when you're doing hamstrings stretches?

Flexion, bending forward, or intense piriformis stretches.

Well, I'm trying to stretch my piriformis.

Well, look at your back.

What's your back doing?

You're cranking it down into flexion, the very thing that aggravates you, or any type of other stretch that involves bending forward consistently.

If that's the movement that triggers your pain, don't do more of that movement.

But for most people, that's the only direction they know how to move their spine.

Yeah, because so often you would hear, and this is what you're going against.

Doctors will say, Well, hey, your back is connected to your glutes, connected to your hamstrings.

You need to loosen up your hamstrings to loosen up right.

But to your point, most people do like track stretches where you're standing up, you're trying to touch your toes,

or you're sitting down, trying to touch your toes, which is the entire point you're making.

It's actually the wrong stretch or exercise you're actually doing.

There's alternatives.

100%.

And this, this increases even more if you are someone who is dealing with sciatica.

If you have nerve pain that's traveling into your glute or down into your hamstring or calf or foot, you will notice that that leg, that gluter hamstring, feels extra tight all the time.

Like when I try to stretch that leg, it feels extra tight or that burning sensation.

That's because you have nerve pain.

You have nerve tension.

When a nerve has pressure on it, it becomes sensitive.

A sensitive nerve does not want to stretch.

I can actually use a visual cue right now.

Check this out.

So if a disc is pushing out and you're pulling a nerve across it, that's going to cause irritation around the nerve.

If you try to stretch the nerve across it more, you're agitating it over and over and over across the disc.

So when people have nerve pain, they feel like, oh, my leg's tight.

I just need to stretch it more.

But no, what they're pulling is not the muscle.

They're pulling the nerve.

And that can flare them up so commonly.

Oh, God.

Bro, you're preaching to the choir because

so many, everyone go follow this man right now because it is such, I don't want to say it's a new way of thinking, but people aren't you.

There's not enough of you preaching this because I, I, as someone that has had a lot of pain, this is the way it is like, stretch out your glutes, stretch out, but everything was an inflection.

Everything was a track pose, a hurdle pose, right?

Where you, you bend your knee and you're trying to go down to your knee.

Everything put me in that position.

And so now where i would take this conversation so people understand that the the alternatives of those type of poses or stretches what can they do in an alternative way that they aren't doing a touch your toes style or a hurdle pose where you're trying to touch your knee to your chest because that causes the inflection what are the alternatives there and now a next level moment from at t business say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for international sleep day you've got at t 5g so you're fully confident but the vendor isn't responding.

And International Sleep Day is tomorrow.

Luckily, ATT 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you.

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Coverage not available everywhere.

Learn more at ATT.com/slash 5G network.

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That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace.

A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

Learn more at capella.edu.

Yep.

So we mentioned these a moment earlier and I'll expand on it even further.

Are for these types of scenarios that I've described, the opposite.

So extension-based movements.

So you had mentioned, hey, lay back over the ball.

For sure.

I mentioned laying on your, laying on your stomach on the floor, pushing up into a Cobra pose.

For sure.

You could also envision yourself in a typical hamstring or sorry, not typical hamstring, a typical hip flexor stretch.

Imagine you're a typical hip flexor stretch, but instead of just sitting there holding and not moving, you're lunging in and out of it repetitively.

Repetitive motions, our spine and hips respond to way more.

So loading the joint over and over.

So it's going to help get that hip into extension while also helping the low back get into extension as well.

Even like something like a glute bridge, not a...

not a complex movement, not one that's going to be amazing.

By the way, being told, oh, you backplane cuts your glutes a week, that's a total myth.

We're not going to go down that route.

But doing glute bridges for the sake of getting your low back into extension can be helpful too.

So these are the types of motions that if you are resonating with the subject matter that we're discussing right now, these are the type of motions you need to be doing to help reverse the stress that you're accumulating throughout the day, being in that bent position.

Now, I know you are heavily,

you know, back centric,

but you are a doctor.

So I'm going to ask you some personal questions, see if anyone can get some stuff out of that.

My neck, though not really painful, is I had an epidural whatever a year and a half ago.

What are some alternative, what can I be doing for my neck?

Neck pain specific, right?

I still work out.

I still am very active.

I don't try to go for the heavy lifts anymore, right?

Like I want to stay fit.

What are some neck examples that I could be doing

to cure myself for that?

Yeah, we might do something crazy on this podcast.

You might have to chop this up quite a bit and do some voiceover.

But a moment ago, you were telling me you were trying to get some radiation down to the left hand, correct?

Yeah, down this right here.

Okay.

So normally I want to talk through this and very briefly.

For all the listeners, we have around 200 online consultations a week.

We have clients all over the world.

We take everyone through a one-on-one movement assessment over Zoom.

We look at what tests trigger their pain, and then we do exercises with them real time and then retest to see if we can reduce their pain.

I want to attempt to see if I can even do a mini version of that with Justin.

And this would be far more in depth when actually working with us.

But just based on what you're describing, there's, there's potential here.

So let's just see what happens.

I like it.

And then also, where could they go to potentially book a call?

Just let's do that now since some people might be like, dude, I want to book a call.

How do I do that?

What could they go to try to do that?

Yeah, if you go to my Instagram, there's a million different ways.

We have call to actions all over, obviously.

So the link in bio on our Instagram, if you go to my website, there's an application that you can submit as well.

But yeah, Instagram is our primary hub for sure.

Rehab fix.

Go get them.

All right.

All right.

Let's see what we can do here.

Let's

keep going.

So like I said, I'm expediting this exponentially

just for the sake of where we're at here.

So

I want you to try one test real quick.

Because you said you're feeling numbness and tingling in the hand, it's starting to increase a little bit.

We're going to do two basic neck ranges of motion.

I'm going to do one other test with you.

For the neck, I just want you to look backwards towards the ceiling as far as you can.

Let me know if you feel anything.

Nope.

Okay.

Chin down to the chest as far as you can.

Let me know if you feel anything.

Tightness.

Okay.

In where?

My left.

Just in the neck.

Tight.

Just tight.

Okay, got it.

Tilt your head straight to the right.

So right ear to the right shoulder.

Does that pull on that left side at all or no?

Kind of feels good.

Okay, got it.

Last test.

Like I said, I'm rapidly going through this.

Yeah.

This one's more involved.

So here's what we're going to do.

With your left arm, you're going to stretch your left arm back, tilt that hand back, and then tilt the head away from that arm.

Let me know if that increases any of that radiation into the hand.

Nope.

Kind of like I said, it actually kind of feels good.

Like I just need to stretch.

Okay.

We'll briefly compare it to the right side.

Now do the same thing on the right side and let me know if it feels any different to you.

This is actually harder.

It actually hurts.

Like I'm tighter and it hurts more in my neck and shoulder area.

Interesting.

You're flipped.

Your bad side's the good side.

Nope.

Goodness gracious.

So the goal with going through this is to see if there are just any quick tests that you would say, oh, yeah, that does trigger my neck, or oh, yeah, that does trigger my hand.

Because then, what we would do is we would do an exercise together, retest, and see if we could get real-time results.

For majority of our clients, we see on average 37% improvement in the first session when we do this.

But for you, because I'm really expediting this, there was no movement that triggered symptoms.

So, we're not going to do a whole retest process.

But the number one go-to movement for cervical herniations is a repetitive end range loading of the cervical spine, meaning we're going to perform a chin tuck motion.

So here's how it would look is you would sit back in your chair, relax, let your shoulders and posture of muscles totally relax.

And then performing a chin retraction, we would slide the chin straight back like we're making a double chin and then relax.

And we do this repetitively.

This

is literally the gold standard intro exercises for reducing a cervical herniation, getting it off of the nerve and getting those symptoms out of your hand as well as the pain out of your neck.

I'm telling you right now, I did that six times and my tingling basically went away.

I'm not joking you.

I'm not saying it just because you're on here.

I think I did it six times while you're doing it.

Yeah.

And I went from a tingly thumb as we were talking to no tingle.

I'm not bullshitting.

So, so what is this doing?

Why is that working?

I'll explain in depth.

So, remember how we talked about the lower back?

I said, hey, what position are we in most today?

Let's do the opposite.

Okay.

So, now we're going to flip it.

So, and this is going to be visual.

Anyone who's listening are like, I don't know what's going on right now.

So, if I'm sitting at a computer, let's analyze my neck together real quick.

The top part of my neck, this part is shaped like this, right?

So, the top part shaped like this.

This bottom part right here is shaped like this.

That's an inflection.

So, the top part is an extension.

bottom part is inflection.

When I do a chin tuck, the opposite is occurring.

The top part goes from an arched position to a straight position.

And the bottom part, which goes in a rounded, which is in a rounded position, goes to a straight position.

Oh, yeah.

So we're doing the opposite that your neck is in.

most of the day.

That is what, I mean, so simple, right?

In terms of what you're, how you explain it, but obviously it took a doctor to tell me this, but that makes all the sense.

It's the same reason why you were saying, even the, for the back pain, even do, doing the hip flexor

stretch, but instead of holding it,

you go back and forth.

You go back.

In fact, you just recently did a video of this, or at least I came across it recently, watching you do that.

And I'm like, oh, that makes all the sense in the world.

Why wouldn't you be going lunging and coming in and coming out of it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Discs specifically.

so we talk about spine conditions, so cervical herniations, lumbar herniations, discs respond to repetitive load far better than static load, far better.

So like low back example, if someone holds a Cobra pose, like, oh, I was, I looked this up on YouTube.

I saw that this is a good movement for disc herniations.

If they hold that for 30 to 60 seconds, many, many people can start to feel really tight and really flared up as a result.

But if instead for 30 to 60 seconds, they did it repetitively, their their results can be far superior.

It's because discs like repetitive load.

So we do the same thing for the neck.

We don't hold positions, especially not ones that we're getting too much throughout the day.

We do repetitions.

We load it over and over.

So for some people, Justin, in your situation, Let's say they have active radiation going all the way to the fingertips like fire.

We might sit here and do that with them 50, 60 times in a row.

Wow.

As like every 10, like every 10 we do, it's like after the first 10, it'll suck it out from the fingers to the palm.

The next 10, it'll suck it out to the wrist.

The next 10, it'll be midform.

And it just starts crawling up their arm because what it's doing is it's reducing the herniation

away from the nerve.

And as the pressure gets off the nerve, the pressure reduces out of the arm or out of the leg if they have sciatica.

This is great.

God, this is my own personal doctor therapy session, guys.

Everybody, get a hold of this man immediately.

Rehab dicks on Instagram.

So,

because I've been really contemplating what type of stretching I should be doing at the gym, the gym have different,

you know, machines and different stuff that obviously you're aware of.

Is there anything at the gym people should say this is a better like?

They definitely, there's one machine that I'm aware of that I've used several times now for the hips, right?

Trying to loosen up my hips, but it makes you hold it essentially, right?

It's the one where you put your leg over and then the seat pulls out and so you're stretching your hip flexors um is there any ones people should stay away from and or if your gym has this stretching mobility type of machine you should be going to that one yeah thank you thank you for asking this question because i've i've covered a lot of maybe interesting perspectives on this show

and it probably goes against a lot of what people have been told but i also want to ensure people aren't hearing what i'm not saying so your question allows me to clarify these things.

If you are relatively healthy, if you're relatively out of pain, if you don't have a serious acute pain that you're dealing with, you should not be steered away or afraid of any movement because there is no good or bad exercise.

There's only the exercise that you are not prepared for.

There you go.

Okay.

Your body can adapt to anything, literally anything.

Look at all the different videos of human beings on the planet who can do all types of things with their body.

It's because they were able to adapt to that over time.

So if you're relatively healthy and you don't have a

spine disorder, a nerve, a disc issue that you're dealing with, go do whatever you want in the gym, however you want, as long as you're slowly exposing your body to that load and you have the ability to adapt to it over time.

So what this discussion is, this is a load management discussion.

This is like, you know, we see people like, oh, their deadlift form is terrible.

Their squat form is terrible.

That's not really true.

Because if they're healthy and if they've slowly been exposing their body to that for years and years and years, then that could be the position that their body's the strongest in.

Before I was educated, I used to, you know, when I was in the bodybuilding and lifting, which I am now, but with a more educated mind, of course.

If I saw someone rounding their back during deadlifting, I just assumed, oh, terrible for them.

They're going to blow their disc out.

Oh, that's awful.

That's not necessarily true.

Yeah.

Because we can adapt our bodies to anything.

So we don't want to be afraid of movements.

All that matters is load management, which is if you have slowly worked into a movement over time, slowly increased weight over time, and your body's adapted to it.

It really doesn't matter what movement that is.

And it doesn't really matter how you're doing it.

If you're adapted to it, you're adapted to it.

And you don't have to be afraid.

I love that.

So coming from someone myself, pretty physically fit, I would say,

in the gym, right?

I want to keep a healthy neck, a healthy back now, but I also want to be able to push some weight around on my guy.

And my wife likes it when I carry some muscle and want to,

is there a way I should be working out that keeps everything protected, but allows me for the growth of the actual muscle?

Because you would, you and I both know the old bodybuilder philosophy is lift as much weight and all, you know, the gains and all that kind of stuff.

Is there a strategy that you would recommend for someone like myself that does want to gain some muscle, but protecting, you know, my soft spots, which would be my neck and my back.

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Yeah, so this answer will be much less specific and polarizing than you might think or that the audience might think.

The first answer is, I would fix your back and neck first, and then you can train however you want to.

It doesn't matter.

And a lot of people are like, what?

Like, so, so the most ideal answer to you, Justin, is, well, let me just fix your back and neck.

And then you won't have to protect yourself.

You won't have to be concerned.

You won't have to walk on eggshells.

Yeah.

Train however you want.

We get all of our clients back to heavy squats, heavy deadlifts.

And they're like, my doctor said I should never deadlift again.

It's like, well, your doctor doesn't even lift.

So

your doctor is 48 pounds overweight.

Yeah, yeah.

He doesn't lift and you're still in pain.

So obviously he doesn't know how to help you.

So stop basing someone who has improved results.

Now, let's say we use the context where, okay, well, Grant, I haven't gone through your program or I have pain right now.

Like, should I modify things?

Okay, that's a different discussion.

So if you have the type of flexure intolerant back pain that we discussed earlier, which I imagine you do based on your onset being on the airplane, and we have cervical herniations, which I know the typical manifestation of that, then the things that you would want to avoid going heavy or over your load in the gym would be things that will increase a lot of tension in your neck in a extended position.

And then things in your lower back in a flexed position.

So let me give a few examples here.

Is most people, if they're doing really heavy, let's say overhead press, really over, really heavy overhead press, most people are going to strain and push their neck into extension as they try to do that motion.

This could be, not saying it is, could be a common triggering motion for you.

Low back.

If you're doing squats and you want a great range of motion, that's awesome.

If you're going super deep and your mechanics aren't totally ideal for that, though, and you're doing a butt wink or flexing at the bottom of it, if you have a flexion tolerant issue, if rounding or seating long long periods hurts your lower back, then I would not squat to that depth.

You could still squat, but I would not put myself in a loaded, flexed position.

Deadlifting, is there anything inherently wrong with deadlifting?

No, but if you are going above your capacity and you have active pain with flexion, I would not perform a weight that I wouldn't be able to confidently do, like over eight reps, where I could keep my spine neutral and avoid a flexed position.

Lastly, this is important: a ton of core exercises involve flexing going forward.

And rotation can also be aggravating for lumbar disc issues.

So if these agitate your pain, I want to be so clear.

I say that over and over because I'm not painting with broad strokes here.

There are some people who say, well, I feel fine doing these.

Then that's great.

Then keep doing them.

I'm not demonizing movement.

But if they agitate, if flexion hurts you, then I would not be doing a bunch of sit-ups, crunches, rushing twists toes to bar i would not be doing those if that individual circumstance was exacerbated with flexion of active disc pain what is so because we're all guys and we all want our six pack what are some alternative to the type of ab workouts that they could be doing Yeah, so there's so many different ways to have neutral-based core workouts.

So farmer's walk, suitcase carry, all the different plank variations, of course, deadbug variations.

I love dead bugs for multiple reasons.

What is a dead bug?

Yeah, dead bug, I'll briefly describe it.

Imagine you're on your back, low back is completely flat on the ground, arms pointed towards the ceiling, both your legs lifted.

So it looks like you're on all fours, but on your back.

Okay.

And then you're going to be alternating your arm and your leg.

back repetitively.

So you're basically extending extending a leg.

This way and this way and extending.

Got it.

Exactly.

You can make that more advanced by adding weight to it, weight on the arms, weight on the legs.

You can advance this.

But that movement's so good because by moving the arm and the leg, but keeping your low back flat to the ground, it trains your body how to properly stabilize your spine.

It improves your diaphragm usage.

It improves intra-abdominal pressure, which is so important for being able to squat and deadlift heavy without pain.

It does a lot of awesome stuff for breathing mechanics and core, really, really good stuff from a rehab perspective.

But you can advance those to still feel like you're getting a strong core workout.

These are all the different things that you can do if you're trying to avoid flex positions.

But once again, once again, these are not modifications that you should have to make forever.

If you have active pain and you want to modify to be able to train your core, these are temporary modifications, not lifelong restrictions we're instilling on your life.

Because if you do things the right way, you can get back to doing any type of core workout you want to without a problem.

That's the real big key.

I think it's understanding the expectations of what you're doing and

modifying.

I mean, I think modifying, I'm at a place right now where I essentially could work out pretty normal.

I'm not really in much pain.

The last week or so, I've started to feel it come back.

I now know the one exercise I'm going to start doing.

But yeah, when I was in pain, I mean, everything was modified.

And I think more people need to understand that they don't, you and I were talking offline about this a little bit.

This doesn't mean you're done working out or exercising.

It literally means you need to have the right coach, the right mentor, the right program, like Grant can do.

Again, rehab fixes his Instagram.

Like you need that.

Just like is a business owner needs a coach to grow their business.

This is your business of your body, right?

And if you don't have someone coaching you through the right program, the right process of like rebuilding it when it broke down a little bit, then you're going to be in a tough spot.

But definitely don't stop.

No, do not stop.

And I said this earlier and I'll say it again in a much more succinct way is imagine you're in the middle of a circle and imagine your circle is a mile mile wide right now.

Those are all the different things you can do.

If you start reducing the circle of movement around you and you say, okay, now I can't do this.

I can't do this.

I can't do this.

Your circle gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller.

And then you're left with so little to do.

And then that's what you would then form your life around.

And now you're stuck.

Now you have fear-based movements.

Now you're in chronic pain.

And now you feel like you can't do anything.

That's a trap.

You do not want to restrict your movement.

No, I think that's the mindset thing.

And you and I agree wholeheartedly.

Like, if you can control your mindset around these things in all aspects of life, right?

Business, your body, your health, your fitness, your marriage, your parenting, you're going to win.

But that takes going to someone who knows more than you in that specific sector.

I would go to Grant.

You guys should be going to Grant because he is the expert at that.

He also has three children and still runs a very successful business.

You have like the largest coaching program in this space

in the nation.

I mean, this is, you're not some newbie to this thing.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We were, we were the, I think, the first to do it.

So this really started in 2018, 2019, where everybody for any type of rehabilitation, it's brick and mortar, brick and mortar, brick and mortar.

I was doing this pre-COVID.

So came up with the concept of, hey, I'm growing an online following and how can I help people who aren't in my local area?

Started creating rehab programs for people over text initially.

Then it was, you know, PDF documents and then it evolved to where it is now.

but yeah we've been helping people online around the world for many years and we have over 3 million followers across our platforms we have the highest uh highest engagement highest hits in regards to any online lowback program we yeah we're the we're the number one online lowback program

Well, let's keep you going, dude, because you're easy to talk to.

You understand what you're doing.

You're obviously an expert.

You're physically fit.

Something that drives me absolutely nuts is when people give advice, doctors or anyone else, and they're like physically out of shape.

It's even hard for me in the business space.

If, if there's a coach or a mentor that wants me to be like one of their clients, cause they've sold off and they've made hundreds of millions of dollars, whatever.

And I look at them like, yeah, but you're probably a hundred pounds overweight.

Like you can't control what you put in your mouth.

How are you controlling?

You know what I mean?

So like the fact that you're really extremely physically fit, I would tell anyone if your doctor is not, you got to change doctors because that is like their business.

Yep.

Yep.

It's the same concept as I would never go to a dentist if my eye hurt.

It's, it's the wrong, it's the wrong alignment.

So if you're someone who has pain and your goal is to become active again and to be able to get into the gym, but your doctor has no concept about being active or the gym or how that looks to get back into the gym, it's the wrong provider.

Yeah.

You need a provider who understands how to get in the gym because they're in the gym.

and they actually live the life that you're wanting to achieve.

In any area, you need a coach that's achieved achieved what it is that you want to be able to.

That's going to make sense.

Amen.

Well, dude, I appreciate you coming on.

Rehab Fix is his Instagram.

Dr.

Crant Elliott is his name.

Thank you very much for helping us entrepreneurs, these hard drivers, fix some of this pain, and we'll keep you in touch.

Thanks, brother.

Yeah, man.

If this was pretty good, you know, probably one or two or three people that need this information, share this episode with them.

They're going to appreciate you.

We'll see you on the next episode.

Peace.

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Is it time to reimagine your future?

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We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals, like business management, strategic planning, and effective communication.

And you can apply these skills right away.

A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

Learn more at capella.edu.