The Strategy That Will Revolutionize The Future of Real Estate | Will Denis | EP 42

Speaker 1 So, if you've been in this space at all, if you've been wholesaling, if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall, right?

Speaker 1 And you've, oh my God, this seller has 20 other people, which is true, especially in an area like South Florida, dude, how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option, right?

Speaker 1 No one else can figure out the problem, you're the only person standing in front of them. And usually, what their response is to that person

Speaker 1 when I was doing this face-to-face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this. Everyone is tried.

Speaker 1 When I hear that, i get excited and i'm like oh but i can and i can figure it out that's right so that's typically the conversation that you're having yeah um and then of course we brought it in-house we we brought the servicing in-house right and all that and and that's why our entire model is jving with people like all you got to do is go find these things get them under contract or by the deed with a limited POA yeah and you bring them to us and then you just put on your seatbelt dude and get paid

Speaker 2 what's up the entrepreneur dna family i am back with another incredible guest.

Speaker 2 If you are in real estate in any shape, whether you're a realtor or you're an investor, you are going to want to know who he is and you are going to want to know what reverse flipping is.

Speaker 2 Will Dennis is in the house. What's up, bro?

Speaker 1 Appreciate it, bro. Excited to be here.
Let's do this.

Speaker 2 So, bro, you blew my mind about two weeks ago. I've been in this space for 17 years.

Speaker 1 Long time.

Speaker 2 Two weeks ago, you're like, Colby, I got this is it. This is it.

Speaker 2 I'm murdering it on this. So, let's just tell the people immediately what is reverse flipping.

Speaker 1 All right. So basically, you know my story.
I got started about eight years ago and a typical wholesaler.

Speaker 1 What a reverse flip is, it's buying the deed to a property up front, not tax deeds. This is straight direct to seller, typically off-market, but it works on market too.

Speaker 1 So you buy the deed to the property and you fix all the hair, right? For lack of a better term. This is basically your dead deals, your dead leads, et cetera.

Speaker 1 You know, no equity, negative equity, upside down, reverse mortgages, bankruptcies, pre-foreclosure, multiple heirs to a situation, IRS liens, right? Those kinds of things.

Speaker 1 You buy the deed up front, you clean up the problem, right, through our company, and then you can choose your exit after the fact.

Speaker 1 So I called it reverse flipping because as you know, being in the business, you typically close on the deal, then you do the work, and then God willing, you make a profit.

Speaker 1 If it's a fix and flip four or five months down the road, if it's a wholesale, maybe it's a double close, maybe it's not.

Speaker 1 In this scenario, you're buying the deed, so you eliminate all the competition right there. There's no more contracts, there's no more circumvention, right?

Speaker 1 And now you're fixing the problem, and then you have choice. As an investor, that's what we want, right? It's choice and freedom.

Speaker 1 Now you have the choice to say, do I want to burrow this? Do I want to keep this? Do I want to sub to it? Do I want to novate it? Do I want to wholesale it? Do I want to fix and flip it?

Speaker 1 Or do I just want to wholesale it? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So the challenge everyone is feeling right now in the real estate space,

Speaker 2 competition, market is tough, no inventory.

Speaker 1 Tough. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I would say this seems like the obvious answer.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so you know, even going back to 07, 08, which I wasn't around in the space, but you were, right? And talking to a lot of my mentors,

Speaker 1 back then, doing deals became extremely difficult. Equity was on the downward, right? There was no buyers and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 So the deals that worked best in a market like that, or in a downward market, or in a tough market, is creatives.

Speaker 1 Luckily for me, I had a mentor that taught me a variation of this about five years ago. So I started buying deeds to properties.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we'll kind of get into the story of how the whole reverse flipping thing came out. But basically, I was already doing that for five years.

Speaker 1 And anytime I'd run into a property that was just like a dead end where nobody wanted and we just couldn't figure it out. That was the one.
That was the one.

Speaker 1 And we just started buying the deeds. And we're talking about, and keep in mind, I'm in South Florida, right? So very expensive values, as you know, 2,000 bucks, 3,000 bucks, $1,000.

Speaker 1 To buy the deed for $2,000. So you have ownership in this property.
A lot of my deals, man, get done with zero dollars, right?

Speaker 1 And you can even tie in the sellers to the background, you know, to the back end of the deal. Um, heirs work as well, yeah.
So, this is a very effective strategy for like 20 different reasons, right?

Speaker 1 And you're also-you say you're tying in the heirs or the owners to the back end, meaning you share some revenue with them on the back end sale of whatever happens, not revenue, but for example, if an owner wants, I'm just gonna make up numbers, but if an owner wants, well, I want 10,000 bucks, that's fine.

Speaker 1 So, as an investor, we're trying to mitigate our risk, right? So, I'll give you a thousand up front, and I'll give you nine once I fix it. Can I curse on the show? Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Once I fix this pile of shit, then I'll give you the nine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And now you're into this deal for a thousand bucks, but you own it day one.

Speaker 2 Oh, this is brilliant. This is why I'm excited.
This is so you can even give an upside to the seller to incentivize them. You want to work with me so you can get your number.

Speaker 2 Might get a little creative. This is, again, this is like a

Speaker 2 creative finance finance strategy. And that's why, you know,

Speaker 2 there isn't one right way or wrong way to do creative financing.

Speaker 1 No, there's not. And, you know, that's the beauty when,

Speaker 1 you know, having wholesale like 600 transactions, right? And a lot of the typical stuff.

Speaker 1 Five years ago, I just, I don't know why, but I'm pretty good at solving complex shit. Yeah.
I like them.

Speaker 1 You know, it helps that we have the best team in Florida from a legal perspective, right? The title side, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 And then we can get into the servicing company and the processing company that we ended up buying in the process.

Speaker 2 Well, so, you know, for the average person watching this, whether they're a realtor or investors, works or both, right? Anyone who's in the real estate space.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 All realtors, by the way, should be an investor. I don't understand why they're

Speaker 2 not. You're doing the same thing we're doing.
Absolutely. So you're taking like the lower value sticker price, which is the 3%.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So realtors work with us a lot. And now we have a huge network and it's only growing by the day.

Speaker 1 yeah where i always tell realtors i'm like don't don't fall into the myth and the that they fed you at you know gold coast schools and all this crap that oh it's three percent i mean the nar just told you that you're not worth three percent that's pretty much what it is so yeah i would love to be in a business and i always wanted to be in business where i dictate the terms and nobody can come along just say

Speaker 1 well you're not making that anymore

Speaker 2 Hey, real estate hustlers, are you sick and tired of seeing potential deals fall through the cracks?

Speaker 2 You know, the ones they're looking promising, but now they're just dead leads sitting there collecting dust. Well, it's time to change that.
And it starts with the science of reverse flipping.

Speaker 2 Imagine if you could breathe life into those deals, save on taxes, and boost your real estate portfolio like never before.

Speaker 2 With the science of reverse flipping, you get exclusive access to our in-house legal team, the country's top loss mitigation pros, and three live weekly calls with investors who've closed over 3,000 deals combined.

Speaker 2 These are the guys who know how to make the impossible possible and they want to help you do the same. You either want every unfair advantage or don't.

Speaker 2 Every deal you let slip by is money lost and every day you wait is missed opportunity. But with the science of reverse flipping, you can turn those no's into yeses and those dead listings into deeds.

Speaker 2 Visit the scienceofreverse flipping.com now to join the community of serious investors who are taking action. Don't wait for deals to come to you.
Go out there and take them.

Speaker 2 Visit scienceofreverse flipping.com today and let's get those leads working for you.

Speaker 2 Well, so a realtor should effectively, how many, I mean, I'm just kind of thinking immediately if you're watching this and you're a realtor, you should be thinking, how many people have I put a listing on the market that could never really get there?

Speaker 2 Because maybe it was a short sale, maybe it was a probate, maybe it had seven different heirs and we couldn't get them all lined up. So people would make offers.
The heirs would always argue.

Speaker 2 You couldn't get the deal closed.

Speaker 2 Realtors should be the one coming in and either doing it themselves

Speaker 2 or finding you, finding me, people that know how to do this and say, hey, guys, I have a deal that this will never sell the regular MLS.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so we do a couple things on that. So we do get a lot of deals from realtors.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Either through our own efforts or usually now, and again, we can get into the details. I haven't done marketing in 14 months, so not an ounce.

Speaker 1 So that should tell you everything, right? So realtors come to us and it's typically when they hit a dead end and they're like, hey, got no idea, right? How to do this short sale, et cetera.

Speaker 1 They're mostly largely tied around debt to some way. That's a great trigger for your audience.
But these realtors, they should absolutely be finding these deals.

Speaker 1 And if I was a realtor or even a wholesaler, right? Wholesaling right now sucks. Yeah.
I mean,

Speaker 1 you've been in the game. I've been in the game.
I mean, cost per lead sucks. Cost per deal deal sucks, especially in a market like Phoenix or South Florida.

Speaker 1 Dude, the cost per deal in South Florida is seven to eight grand. Terrible.

Speaker 1 That's like if you're good.

Speaker 2 And you're going to spend a lot to get there.

Speaker 1 Well, and you, yeah, you might bankrupt yourself in the process.

Speaker 2 But just to go get the first deal so you can get some momentum going, right?

Speaker 1 You also have 25 dip shits to every deal that's offering your seller 2,000 more, 5,000 more, right?

Speaker 1 Then even if you get the contract, you got 25 dip shits going around your back to talk to the seller, right? So now you got to sue the seller, et cetera.

Speaker 1 If any of this sounds familiar, you know what I'm talking about. Ask me how I know.
So once you buy the deed, it's over. You own it.
It's done. They will actually, I think it's hilarious.

Speaker 1 My attorney is usually the guy listed on the deed. They actually cold call and skip trace him and try to cold call him.
And I'm like, he owns it. Yeah.
There's no circumvention.

Speaker 2 So what is the first, first of all, go to reverseflip.com forward slash justin. If you're a realtor or an investor, reverseflip.com forward slash justin.

Speaker 2 So they all know that you came from here, but start getting the deals deals done that you're already working. That is first and paramount.
Easiest way.

Speaker 2 Just buy that website, go there immediately, start going now. Let's start talking about the bigger picture of what you have actually working.

Speaker 2 This isn't just, hey, go find a hairy deal and that's the deal you want.

Speaker 2 You actually have like two lost mint reps that have had 20 years of experience in negotiating. This is all in-house,

Speaker 2 in your office, working every day.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So again,

Speaker 1 short, short version of the story.

Speaker 1 Necessity is the mother of all invention, right? I had a business divorce in 2022. When I did that, I asked myself one very, very important question.

Speaker 1 I said, do I want to rebuild out a massive operation like what I had for wholesaling? And the answer was a resounding no.

Speaker 1 I just didn't want to do it again. Totally.
You get a little older, you're like, no, dude, this is brain damage. It's a lot.
So at that time, I had about 23 deeds that we had bought, right?

Speaker 1 And thankfully, I bought out my ex-partner.

Speaker 1 and this is where the whole story kind of ties in so as i was resetting and restarting my career and my life and all this stuff uh i didn't i think i took like a week to think about it and if that and the idea was okay let's start working these deals and as we started to work these deals started making 100k a deal 150k on a deal 90k on a deal kept seven of those rentals right i still own them till this day didn't pay taxes for three years because i had over 10 million dollars worth of real estate that's what happens when you own the deed by the way you could buy a deed for zero Now you have all the tax appreciation.

Speaker 1 So we can get into that. But as we were solving these issues, we were using these consultants.
And it was referred to me by a good friend. And these guys had multiple years of experience, right?

Speaker 1 Working for HUD. And all they did at HUD was write the HUD guidelines.
Oh, that's it? That's it.

Speaker 1 So, so basically any HUD, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Jenny Mae, all that stuff, they wrote the guidelines for those things. So nobody understands how loss mitigation or how these mortgages work.

Speaker 1 And I will give that tip to anybody. The reason why I went from the wholesaler, right?

Speaker 1 Even though I was in the 1% of the 1% of wholesalers, you know, making 8 million bucks a year to transcending that to, holy shit, now I'm a real investor.

Speaker 1 And now, you know, we make tens of millions of dollars. The reason why that was able to happen was because I educated myself.

Speaker 1 And if you understand the game and you understand the rules to the game, aka debt, legal, et cetera, you can write your own ticket. No No doubt.

Speaker 1 And that's, so once we did that, they were so good at what they were doing that after about the 10th one, we decided to buy the company. And we literally rolled them in-house.
We made them partners.

Speaker 1 And we said, look, you guys are doing about 90 deals, 70 deals a year.

Speaker 1 We're thinking a little bit bigger, maybe 700 to 1,000 a year. Just a little bit bigger.
And we're going to expand this.

Speaker 1 And I also knew by being an educator in the space and being in all the masterminds, right, for years and years and years, I never, and you could tell me this because you've been in it longer than me.

Speaker 1 Have you ever heard anyone at any of our masterminds talk about this kind of stuff?

Speaker 1 Like in detail.

Speaker 1 So I knew that the marketplace had a big ass opportunity for it.

Speaker 1 But more importantly, as putting myself in the shoes of that person who was once the wholesaler trying to come up, right, and chasing that dangling carrot. How do you make more money?

Speaker 1 Well, you got to spend more money in marketing, right? That bullshit, which is a myth, by the way. I knew that the marketplace needed it and I knew that my students needed it.

Speaker 1 So then I taught it to my students and I was like, all right, well, I could do it, but can they do it? And then they started doing it. And a 26-year-old kid made 1.2 million last year in Miami alone.

Speaker 1 That's clear. With a team of three, two VAs and him.
So this is like, it's 25 deals, man. I mean, that wasn't a lot of volume, right?

Speaker 2 And so specifically to give people like, he's 23, six, six. Where was he finding these deals?

Speaker 1 So the deals are just hairy deals. Yeah.
And he was already doing some marketing. So these were typically his dead deals.
Dead deals. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So dead leal, dead, we call it, we're turning dead leads into deeds. That's, that's our slogan.
That's what it is. It's pretty catchy.
I'm not going to lie. I like it.

Speaker 1 Probably take credit for that one. But, you know, and it works, right? So again, there's no competition.
And that's the other thing, too.

Speaker 2 That's a big, big thing, by the way.

Speaker 1 No, it's massive. So if you've been in this space at all, if you've been wholesaling, if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall, right?

Speaker 1 And you, oh my God, this seller has 20 other people, which is true, especially in an area like South Florida.

Speaker 1 Dude, how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option, no one else can figure out the problem, you're the only person standing in front of them.

Speaker 1 And usually what their response is to that person when I was doing this face-to-face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this. Everyone is tried.

Speaker 1 When I hear that, I get excited and I'm like, oh, but I can and I can figure it out. That's right.
So that's typically the conversation that you're having.

Speaker 1 And then, of course, we brought it in-house. We brought the servicing in-house, right, and all that.
And that's why our entire model is JVing with people.

Speaker 1 Like, all you got to do is go find these things, get them under contract or buy the deed with a limited POA, and you bring them to us, and then you just put on your seatbelt.

Speaker 2 So when they go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin, that's them just giving you the deal to do a JV.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 2 I would tell you guys listening and watching this, do that.

Speaker 2 Because for you to try to learn what these guys are already doing, it's going to take you the seven years of beating your head against a wall.

Speaker 1 It would be impossible impossible because these, you'd have to duplicate 21 years of loss mitigation experience and working at HUD for eight years.

Speaker 1 So it would literally be, I mean, the way that we understand as a company how the loss mitigation and the short tail works, and that's just one aspect, right?

Speaker 1 Bankruptcy works, how probates work, our attorney who's in-house, right? The way that we understand that is what gives us the competitive edge.

Speaker 1 And by the way, the average short tail, if, if this is a real statistic for your audience, about 53% of all short tales in America fall out. They never get completed.
That is a fact.

Speaker 1 Feel free to fact-check me out.

Speaker 2 Is there a reason? Do you know the reason?

Speaker 1 Bad documentation is the first one. Okay.
And bad processing, meaning that they didn't submit the documents in the right form and they didn't know what department to go through. Interesting.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I'll give you a, can I give a quick example? Yeah. So if you're watching this and you're in Miami-Dade, so Cutler Bay, Miami-Dade County, very hot market.
This property has an ARV of 800.

Speaker 1 There was a guy who I personally know, awesome investor, right? Realtor brought him a short sale. Yeah.
Standard, right? Was on the market for about three months.

Speaker 1 He calls me one day, this is maybe two, three weeks ago. And he's like, hey, dude, I got this deal.

Speaker 1 We got to the closing table and we got the payoff for the first position, but turns out that there was a second position mortgage, yay, right? Right. And nobody could find it.

Speaker 1 And he said, do you guys think you could find it? And I said, I guarantee you we could find it. So within 48 hours, my guys found the second position.

Speaker 1 Not only did they find it, but they moved the second position underneath the first position. So now they combined it into one payoff.
By the way, that second position was $150,000 mortgage.

Speaker 1 Okay. Now, a total payoff of $430,000 has been negotiated for both because the second knew, well, if the first goes to foreclosure, I'm shit out of luck.
That's right.

Speaker 1 So nine grand is better than no grand, which is what they're getting. We are wholesaling this deal now for $590,000 without swinging a hammer in less than 30 days.
That's 150K spread

Speaker 1 on a wholesale deal off of that.

Speaker 2 and it was only because the agent didn't know how to get it through Didn't know how to get it through also did not know how to find the second and by the way There was a short sales specialist that was helping them to do this couldn't do it So do you guys ever get like pushback from agents or or is this where because I can I can hear agents already oh, I already know how to do that.

Speaker 2 I already know how to do that You just say all right.

Speaker 1 Well, then go do it and come back to me when it doesn't happen So I have two things to say on that number one I don't chase any deals. Yeah.
You're either going to do a deal with me or you're not.

Speaker 1 I'm not here to convince you of my value. I'm certainly not here to waste your time.
We're buying two to three deeds a day.

Speaker 1 We don't have that time. So I think when you approach people that way, they feel that energy.
And let's be honest, part of that is not going to work out.

Speaker 1 I've been comfortable with that for years now, as I'm sure you are. Totally.
So that's one. Two,

Speaker 1 there's no reason for that agent not to work with you. And it's very simple.
Hey, listen, I see it's been sitting on the market now for 300 days. Right.
Yeah, it has. Okay.

Speaker 1 Let's take ego out of the way for a second. All right.
You're still going to make your commission. Why? Because by federal law, the bank's gonna pay you the 3% anyway.
That's right.

Speaker 1 We will guarantee you the 3%.

Speaker 1 Let our team take a crack at it, and I promise you, we're gonna get this done. I haven't seen a realtor that said no, and if they do, that's not a realtor I want to work with anyway.
That's right.

Speaker 2 And so, is there any like, is this a crazy amount of paperwork people need to come up with? Is it like over the top?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No, that's the crazy thing. So, there's two ways to really do these deals, right?

Speaker 1 And each way has two documents. Okay.

Speaker 2 Very Very simple.

Speaker 1 First way is your typical wholesale contract. All right.

Speaker 1 Use whichever one you want. If you're in Florida, use mine, consults with an attorney, but use mine.
And a limited POA. Yeah.
A limited power of attorney.

Speaker 1 Second way is my favorite way: get a deed, quickly indeed, from the seller or the heirs

Speaker 1 and get the limited POA. So those are the two ways to do it.

Speaker 2 The first question I'm having, if I'm listening to this or watching this,

Speaker 2 why would they give you a deed? Why would the owner of the the home give you their ownership of the home?

Speaker 1 It's a great question. So, number one, they have tried and tried and tried probably 15, 20 times to sell this deal.
And they're at a point where they're like, I got no option.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 So, that's where your negotiating comes into play.

Speaker 1 You can structure, I've structured deeds with $0,

Speaker 1 right? Structured them all the way up. The most I've ever paid for a deed, by the way, is $15,000.

Speaker 2 $15,000 is the most.

Speaker 1 $15,000. For an asset that was $1,000, you made $300.
I made $111,000.

Speaker 2 I mean, I want everyone to understand, even pure economics, if you invest $15,000 into something, you make $100,000 back, it's like a seven times ROAS, right? Like your return on your investment.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And even the better question after that, what was my ROT, my return on time? Because it took 63 days. Wow.
Yeah. So annualized, it's compounded at like tens of thousands of percents or whatever.

Speaker 2 This is so genius. Like, I can't.
I'm pretty geeked up. So again,

Speaker 2 reverselib.com forward slash Justin. I mean, to me, this is the thing right now that, like, this is the game changer.

Speaker 2 Because, by the way, there's no economic time where it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 No, actually,

Speaker 1 we're not going to get into politics or anything like that, but where the market is, where the interest rates are, where the affordability, all the crazy shit show propping up the market that we've seen in the last four years, I don't give a shit if it's Kamala or Trump or whoever the hell, right?

Speaker 1 Or the fucking tooth fairy that gets into office. It's irrelevant.
Like the market will shift. It already is cooling off.
We're seeing it even in South Florida.

Speaker 1 Days on market are higher, higher, right? So as an economy goes into a downward economy, and I can prove it to you, in the state of Florida alone, bankruptcy filings year over year are up 33%.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that just tells me that's one metric, right? Defaults are up by another 25%.

Speaker 1 We bought one in Jacksonville the other day that was literally a 2024 construction, six-month-old loan. Seller just walked away, gave us the deed.
We're taking it over sub two. That is wild.

Speaker 2 And so, and this goes into you can also even structure just more different creative finance deals from where you already have it.

Speaker 2 You keep it as a rental, you take it over sub two because the loan's good. I mean, there's so many options.
This is why I'm saying investors and realtors alike, they need to be giving you these deals.

Speaker 2 I mean, they have to start filling out those forms to give you the deals because they're everywhere. And you're talking about a downward market, right? Because that's where we're at.

Speaker 2 I'll make the argument, and I know you're going to agree, in an appreciating market, there's still divorce. There's still bankruptcy, there's still death, right? There's still bad loans.

Speaker 2 They over-leverage themselves into, you know, a tsunami. It doesn't matter.
It's basically recession-proof, for lack, better way of saying it.

Speaker 1 It is because I'll give this simple analogy. If you're already doing this business, whether it's a realtor, wholesaler, flipper, I don't care, right? Sub-tour, whatever the hell you want to call it.

Speaker 1 You are using a screwdriver, manual crank. I'm coming to you with a fucking power drill with all the drill bits you need to go

Speaker 1 and the work that takes you an hour. Yeah.
You can get it done in 20 seconds. Yeah.
Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm thinking of my database this second and saying, my entire team needs to scrub this database to go over dead leads and the reason of why they were dead.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to say, here's the five things we're looking for. Go find all the, you know, divorce or inheritance, short sale.

Speaker 1 uh whatever the case and i'm just going to go have them give you all my leads there's so many myths i mean look we could talk about it if you'd like i mean I chimed into your community call, right?

Speaker 1 100%. What was it? Two hours later, somebody got a deed in your community.
And then the next day, there was another two guys that got deeds. So again, taught it to newer people,

Speaker 1 more experienced people. It's not rocket science, right? You're just changing how you're doing the deal, but you're also talking to the right people.

Speaker 1 This business, and this is more like a personal thing for me. And you've been in it.
Seeing them all come and go, right? All the educators that we're talking about. That's right.

Speaker 1 The shit that's been peddled in our business is trash, right?

Speaker 2 It's just redundant. It's the same thing.
It's the same thing, dude.

Speaker 1 Everybody's just saying another variation, right? Novations were a hot topic, right? We know who was the biggest guy in them. He's a good friend of mine.
He's a beast.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden, there's 10 guys. Oh, my God.
And there'll probably be 10 copycats. Oh, we can do this too.

Speaker 1 And that's great, but they'll never have the sauce that we have, and the servicers, and that company, right? And

Speaker 1 we,

Speaker 1 when I got into education, my model from the very beginning was I want to create a community that's we're JVing with each other. I don't want a pump and dump and one and done with you.
That's right.

Speaker 1 Most of my students' stick rate or community members is over a year. Yep.
Right. So we're doing deals again and again and again because they get it.

Speaker 1 They say, well, I go find this, I bring it back, my job is done. And I'm always making double, triple the average deal size, even on a JV.

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 2 So what is the first thing that you would say someone needs to start thinking about, how to think about it where to go? What would you advise someone today right now?

Speaker 2 Like I use this podcast as how is Will Dennis going to change someone's life today? Sure. You have a huge story.

Speaker 2 And by the way, if you haven't seen his first podcast we did together, go to the science of flipping podcast show.

Speaker 2 We did a straight up hardcore, full story, blown out story, the business divorce, the 7 million, almost 8 million in a year wholesaling. That is on another episode.

Speaker 2 You'll find that somewhere in the comment section below. But what would you tell someone someone right now, even if they haven't even thought about realistic, like, oh, I want a piece of this? Sure.

Speaker 2 What would you tell them to go do?

Speaker 1 Well, first things first, join our free Facebook group. Yeah.
It's a community that grows by the day. There's already people in there that are doing deals, right, and asking questions.

Speaker 1 So you could partner with somebody and somebody that's already doing it, right? That's already reverse flipping. Secondly, you could just download a list, right?

Speaker 1 Just like you would in the regular wholesale, but just make it, you you know, go after reverse mortgages, right? Go after things that nobody's going after. That's right.

Speaker 1 And you don't need much money to get started on that. That's the key.

Speaker 2 There's so many things I want to bring up. So this isn't like some big marketing budget.
Go do $20,000 a month in PBC.

Speaker 1 Nope.

Speaker 2 Go rip 10 grand a month in TV.

Speaker 1 Nope. That is not what I teach.
Right. That is not what I teach.
This is, look, this is coming to you from a guy that did that. for seven years, multiple six-figure a month marketing budget.
Right.

Speaker 2 Almost. And you have the scars.

Speaker 1 That's crazy oh hell yeah right but and i was proud that i did that sure but this is smarter not harder yeah why is it a volume you know people especially on instagram and our spaces educators oh i did 38 deals this month do you really give a shit i don't care that's a vanity metric i stopped tracking that a lot if you did three and you made three hundred thousand dollars doing three pretty cool although Through our market and you know, well, our JV structure, we're buying, you know, about 60 homes a month.

Speaker 1 So, you that's not to say that we're not doing high volume, but this is what I'll challenge any other guru or whatever in this space. Show me 50, 60 deals a month with an average deal size of 70K.

Speaker 1 And I'll wait. There's no way.
I'll wait. We'll be here for a while.
Yeah. And show me how you're building a eight-figure rental portfolio through this process with little to no money.

Speaker 1 Because I'll wait again. And then show me a community that you've taught that can do that and that is doing that.
And I'll wait again.

Speaker 1 So again, that's, that's maybe my fuck you piece to the whole community of the educators. And I got no problem with them.
But the thing is, the same regurgitated shit has been peddled.

Speaker 1 And man, I'm sick and tired of it because there is a better way to do it and to be a real investor.

Speaker 2 So there's, you said something right there that I wanted to hit on. This is really real estate investing.
And wholesaling is fine. It has this place, right? I still wholesale.
Blah.

Speaker 2 We talked about your wholesaling one. Great.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 2 But there's a bigger upside of why you want to be be a real real estate investor.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 The big thing is the tax write-off.

Speaker 1 It's massive.

Speaker 2 Talk to us about how this could be a utility for all those people who are like, great, I make a lot of money, but I need more tax write-offs because I also am paying that money out.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So high-level, about every million dollars that you own in real estate, depending on your tax filing and all that, it's probably $30,000 to $50,000 per year in non-taxable income, right?

Speaker 1 Straight to your bottom line on your taxes. So

Speaker 1 if let's just, would you agree that the average

Speaker 1 property value in America is 300 right now? Yeah, a little higher, but about that. Let's be conservative.
300 across the country, right? Cool.

Speaker 1 So if you bought a deed to a property for $1,000, which we do every time, we did two of them yesterday, $1,000, and it's worth $300,000,

Speaker 1 you just bought $300,000 worth of depreciating income in a real estate asset. That's right.
So do that 10 times a year. That's 3 million.
You're not paying taxes.

Speaker 1 You have $120,000 give or take per year tax credit.

Speaker 1 That's per year. That's right.
On a 27 and a half year schedule.

Speaker 1 Don't even get me started on going creative and going cost seg and accelerating depreciation because now you're capturing way more than that.

Speaker 1 I haven't paid taxes in three and a half years legally, by the way, Mr. IRS.
And that's the reason why.

Speaker 2 That's why everyone needs to be in real estate. Even for those listening as a W-2 employee, this is one of those strategies that if you just did

Speaker 1 four a year one a quarter yeah and you do it the way you're exactly saying and they just held it yeah

Speaker 1 i got it i got a lot of guys that are in in our circle yeah that come to me and they're like dude i just buy one of these d's and just hold it i'm like absolutely sure and by the way this also works on a million dollar property you'd think yeah oh i can't tap so that's another part this isn't segmented into the price of the home No, and to the point, it could be an apartment.

Speaker 2 It could be a storage facility.

Speaker 1 It could be a commercial mall strip. It could be anything.
Yeah. And that's what I was going to say.
This is not segmented to just residential real estate. This happens on the commercial side.

Speaker 1 Totally.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 There's receiverships. There's all that stuff, which a receivership is basically a bankruptcy sale with a trustee.
On the commercial side, the commercial guys will know what that is.

Speaker 1 Dude, this happens all the time. People think that sub-2s can't happen on commercial.
It can. And you can reverse flip every single one of them.
Right. And another couple of things like good.

Speaker 1 I want to leave the audience with like some good tangible things.

Speaker 1 Reverse mortgages. We have been taught in our business, oh, you can't do anything with them.
They suck. They're amazing.
I'm telling you.

Speaker 2 In this strategy, amazing.

Speaker 1 In this strategy. Unbelievable.
And you can reinstate reverse mortgages. It does not just have to go into a project.
And this is a secret sauce.

Speaker 2 Is you have guys with 20 years of loss and mid-experience that know exactly to the gnats ass how to negotiate this time.

Speaker 1 I like that expression. Nat's ass.
I'm going to use that one.

Speaker 2 But this is why people need to work with you. If you don't know, go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin.

Speaker 2 Start working with Willie immediately because if you have these deals in your pipeline, if you're working these deals, doing any marketing, or even just want to get started.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 I would tell everyone, I'm working with you.

Speaker 2 Like everyone should be working with you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so many, you know, community leaders, like you and I have had a great friendship for years, right?

Speaker 1 But there's a lot of our friends that have communities too that now have me going into the communities, right? And we're teaching this stuff.

Speaker 1 And now their students and community members are coming over here and doing these types of deals. Because again, if we're being honest, the industry as a whole has a lot of pain right now.
Yep.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of pain. Then there's a lot of people making it look pretty and that's cool, right? And you can rent all the Lambos that you want.

Speaker 1 But the reality is there is a lot of pain and there's not a lot of real people doing real deals. That's right.
And the cost per lead, the cost per deal keeps going up, dude. And look, again,

Speaker 1 Do you want to talk to a thousand people to do a deal or do you want to talk to 10 to do do two deals?

Speaker 2 So, again, kind of, you've already said it, but a couple of lists that they could go kind of target, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, short sale, divorce, short sales on market or off-market, but right, you could pivot them from a realtor on market. Those are free leads right there.
There's a free nugget for you right there.

Speaker 1 100%. Go do a search in your local market, ping all the active pendings and active with contracts with short sales, filter out 200 plus days.
By the way, we process short sales in 30 to 45 days.

Speaker 2 That's insane timing.

Speaker 1 So, if a short sale, if you see a short sale on the market with a realtor that has 150 plus days, just remember my face and my voice. Somebody fucked up.

Speaker 1 And that is an opportunity for you to go and convert that and just give the realtor their commission. That's right.
It's a free fucking lead.

Speaker 1 In Miami-Dade County, Broward County, and Palm Beach County, so South Florida alone, I did the search yesterday with my team. There's 149.

Speaker 1 This is just sitting there. And these things have 400 days, 300 days, 600 days.
We're picking them up. I mean, you know, You're putting in offers and saying, let us.

Speaker 2 100%. But the conversation still has to be, we got to do the negotiating.

Speaker 1 Of course, 100%. Which they will not say.
You will have some dipshit realtors. Of course you will.
There's dipshits in every, you know, there's clowns in every circus, right?

Speaker 1 But the majority of them are going to be like, dude, the fuck do I have to lose? Right. I'm tired.
Because how does a realtor make money? They only make money when the deal closes. That's right.

Speaker 1 So if you're sitting there with a listing for 300 days and you're like, oh my God, what am I going to do? This guy comes along and says, hey, we can figure this out.

Speaker 1 We got the best short sale specialist in the country.

Speaker 2 At that point, do you just need the power of attorney?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you even need a purchase agreement? You do need a purchase agreement.

Speaker 2 So is there a percentage that you start to offer on these short sales just to keep it a short sale so it's below the bank loan?

Speaker 2 Or do you do you treat that a little bit more normal when you go after the short sales? Where it's like, all right, where would this deal make sense?

Speaker 1 So that's that's part of what our team does. And they, you know, we do have deal analysis for you.

Speaker 1 And we're coming out now with a report if you're in our community, where if you have, we don't work with leads, we work with deeds, right? Or with deals.

Speaker 1 So you have to have something on their contract. I'm not the guy you're going to come to and be like, hey, I got the seller.
Go into the community for that. That's right.

Speaker 1 And the community will answer those questions. And then you can convert them.
That's right. Now, our team is available for you, right? You mobile notary, this, that.
That's part of the JV structure.

Speaker 1 But if I had to give it a percentage, probably 75 to 80% of what that property is listed for.

Speaker 1 Basically, that's where you want to be.

Speaker 1 You know, another common mistake of a short sale is they submit way too low of an offer in.

Speaker 1 and it gets kicked right back. That's right.
You have to remember, too, man, a lot of these short sale servicers, the way that it works in the country is Fannie Mae is like Jesus, okay?

Speaker 1 Sits on top of everybody. Fannie Mae has 30 million loans, okay? They're the big daddy, and that's Uncle Sam.
Okay, that's Uncle Sam's daughter.

Speaker 1 She's hot and she's got a lot of money because she doesn't fuck around. And she doesn't put out for anybody.

Speaker 1 Just for lack of a better term. Beneath that, there's about 60 servicers.

Speaker 1 These are PHH, Mr. Cooper, Shell Point, Aquin.
I mean, the list goes on and on, right?

Speaker 1 All these servicers have different investors behind them. Private investors, public fund, pension fund.
I mean, not to get so nitty-gritty. Sure.

Speaker 1 All of those have different processes for submitting short sales and for submitting lossmint, right?

Speaker 1 Which is why the fuck it's so goddamn difficult to do and why we're so good at it because we have the experience of 20 plus years to do that. That's right.

Speaker 1 So what I'm saying by that is you just need to figure out where,

Speaker 1 when you tie up the deal, just bring it to us. We figured out where that deal fits

Speaker 1 and what the highest, we have about a 70% success ratio, by the way. 70 of all these deals go through.

Speaker 1 The wholesaling market and industry doesn't even have a 30% fallout rate. Like you're a stud if you have that.
100%. And by the way, I'll urge any realtor or wholesaler seeing this right now.

Speaker 1 If you do, your fallout contracts are these fucking deals. That's right.
The 30%, they usually fall out because of this shit. They're hairy.
They're hairy. Yep.

Speaker 1 So look, I picked a niche that nobody wanted to deal with. And I said, fuck it, I'll be the janitor.
I'll clean up the shit. Turns out shit makes a lot of money.

Speaker 2 Well, Andy put a system behind it, man. Don't, don't, you know, fool yourself.
You took something and said, okay, a lot of brute force to start. Sure.
But let me, how do we systemize this?

Speaker 2 How do we put a structure behind it? So it's a repetition where you can just rinse and repeat all the time.

Speaker 1 that that's why you're able to do what you're able to do no and i appreciate that you know i think uh you know relationship capital is something we talk about all the time right um it i always say this dude to to all my students and anyone i meet i'm like amateurs compete professionals collaborate so if you want to be a dip go ahead go out there and compete no problem man you you might get to the corner you want to be a professional like me like you you collaborate we collaborate totally you jv you go 50-50 right or whatever that looks like you go so much further that way why would i want to do look could I go out and build a podcast I'm sure sure I call it something else

Speaker 1 DNA sure I'm sure yeah but you already fucking did it yeah I'd rather come on your show come on my get going great and you got the best audience right why would I do that I would just collaborate with you right and the same thing on the real estate side you'd be like will I've never really done a lot of these I don't like hairy deals fucking I already lost my hair yeah don't need to lose more Let me just pivot them all over to you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's what we do.
And we service your community, right? We're servicing other people's community. And again, I just want to see people win, dude.
That's it.

Speaker 1 It doesn't have to be that fucking hard. Love that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I'm 100% convinced that based on the feedback and the overwhelming deals, you know, volume that we're getting, this is the future of real estate. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And somebody's going to watch this a year from now and be like, holy shit. You know, they said this a year ago.
And reverse flipping is 1,000% the new way to do real estate.

Speaker 1 It's just what it is.

Speaker 2 Do they have to, in the purchase, in the example of the purchase agreement, is it your entity? Is it their entity? Who needs to do that first?

Speaker 1 That's a great question. So when it's a deed, we put it in a land trust.

Speaker 1 The beneficiary to the land trust is our LLC, one of our entities, and then the trustee is their entity. On the POA, and this is a great point.

Speaker 1 POAs always have to go to a natural-born person, not an entity. So another reason why shorts always get kickbacked.
Because they owe 123 Main Street LLC. No such thing, right?

Speaker 1 So it has to go from John Smith to Joe Smith, right? So it's usually a member of our team. That's who's the POA.
Why do we need the POA? We didn't really talk about that.

Speaker 1 We need the POA so we don't have to go back to the seller and or heirs 67 times if we needed anything signed. That's right.

Speaker 1 That's why, guys, we're doing a lot of the work on the front end so that you don't have to. And this is, ask me how I know, there's a lot of brain damage of trying it the wrong way.

Speaker 1 And this is exactly what works.

Speaker 1 Another reason why a lot of these transactions don't close is time kills all deals.

Speaker 1 So the faster you can get the documents, the faster you can go back, the less amount of times you have to fix a mistake, you're going to the front of the line.

Speaker 1 Yeah, last thing I'll say on this: speaking of the front of the line, because we ended up purchasing the servicing firm, we now sit at what's called a Fannie Mae preferred vendor.

Speaker 1 Most people, that's gonna drop like a silent bomb. No one's gonna know what that means.

Speaker 1 Just know that it takes three years of a process to go through that, and our files go bloop to the top of the pile at Fannie Mae and all the other servicers.

Speaker 1 So again, we're not just making this shit up. We actually have real tangible assets

Speaker 1 and intellectual property behind this. And that's why we're able to do the deals at the pace that we're able to do them.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I mean, again, guys, reverseflip.com forward slash Justin.

Speaker 2 What would you really want to kind of leave every like if someone wanted to buy, let me give you another question.

Speaker 2 Let's say you get it negotiated. If they wanted to buy the deal after you guys got it, how would that work for you guys?

Speaker 1 You mean the JV? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So we would have first rider refusal, right, to buy it because obviously we're buying and we would buy it at fair rate with them. They could wholesale it to us, but it's not a problem, right?

Speaker 1 A lot of the times what happens is somebody will bring a deal and it'll be, you know, again, let's say, let's use the average 70K, right? 70K profit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's what we could wholesale it for, let's say, on the open market. And let's say they're like, hey, man,

Speaker 1 I would say, hey, I want to keep this as a rental. Well, I'll give you the 35K assignment.
God, that's not a problem. Yeah, so it would be simple.
If they wanted to keep it for a rental, that's fine.

Speaker 1 The same inverse, right? You can buy it from us, give us our portion. That's fine.
And you're still getting it. By the way, dude, this is crazy to say, but

Speaker 1 I am, I'm going to say this right now on camera. And I don't give a shit.
Anyone can fact-check me on this. I am probably the only guy in the single family space right now

Speaker 1 with my team that is buying at under 45 cents on the dollar in America

Speaker 2 per per asset.

Speaker 1 I believe it. 100%.

Speaker 1 And I'm doing it largely in South Florida, which is borderline impossible. Which is like saying 10%.

Speaker 1 Because it's wild. It's wild.
But that is our average. It's about 43%, 43 cents on the dollar in layman's terms, right? That's what we're buying.

Speaker 1 So the deal, even if you did a JV with us, and you were to buy it from us or vice versa, you are so well below in terms of margin. The amount of equity you have,

Speaker 1 all of it. Dude, it's wild.
It's wild. The average equity that we're walking into is a buck fifty.
Wow. I mean, it's, it's a lot, dude.
It's a lot.

Speaker 1 You're talking about, I've seen younger guys come in here and they were wholesaling for two, three years and, you know, God bless them, right? Busting their ass and door knocking and this and that.

Speaker 1 Dude, a couple deals, they're like, what the? Like their life is just,

Speaker 1 they buy rentals through it. Like they, dude, they got rentals for life.
I mean, they don't have to pay taxes. Crazy.
I don't know about you, but I've stroked a six-figure check to the IRS before.

Speaker 1 It happened to me one time and it never happened again because I like my butt. Yeah, that's

Speaker 2 exactly right.

Speaker 2 How do you want to leave with the people? What were some things that you just want to say, guys?

Speaker 2 Here's what to look for. Here's what to do.
Yeah. Go check out reverseflip.com.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All that. Yeah.
So, of course, our main page is reverseflip.com. I recently just did a free webinar for about an hour where I go really in depth here.
and it the replay is available on that site.

Speaker 1 We have an intake form, which is also on the reverseflip.com

Speaker 1 site. You click right through it and you literally can submit your deal right there.
Our team is going to send an email right away. Then a member of our team is going to be in contact with you.
Again,

Speaker 1 you don't have to do anything else past the point of here's the deal.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Now you're going to be in contact with us.
And of course, you're going to have full transparency throughout the entire transaction. Totally.
But your involvement stops.

Speaker 1 You don't have to deal with the seller. You don't have to deal with showing to buyers, right? 20, 30, hey, I got all my contractors coming.
Wow, there's 16 contractors. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 1 You don't have to deal with that shit, right? You don't have to deal with circumvention, nothing like that. So reverseflip.com is the main page.
The Facebook group is also listed on there as well.

Speaker 1 It's reverse flipping. It's the Facebook group.
That I think is a couple hundred people now, and we just opened it up a week ago. So it's growing, you know, probably 30, 40 people a day.

Speaker 1 My Instagram, WillieNumbers, right? Yeah. That's where I talk all this content about it, right? I post a shit ton of testimonials and not just testimonials like, hey, I did this and it's great.

Speaker 1 And Willie's an awesome guy. No, actual HUDs with deeds and with profits and with wire transfers.
I like to post wire transfers. I don't post videos inside a property touring it.

Speaker 1 I post fucking money because that's what I want to see from gurus, right? Show me what you're making. Don't show me what you're driving.
Don't give a shit about your Rolex.

Speaker 1 I care about the money that's coming in, right?

Speaker 1 And yeah, our community is just growing, man. That's what I would say.

Speaker 1 Love it. The hairy dead deals.
That's what you want to go after.

Speaker 2 Guys, Willie Numbers on Instagram. Will Dennis is his name.
Reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. Give him the deals.
JV with them now. I appreciate you being on, bro.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you, dude.

Speaker 2 Guys, if this helped at all in the real estate space or in business, make sure you share this with two of your friends. I'll see you on the next episode with another great guest.