The Strategy That Will Revolutionize The Future of Real Estate | Will Denis | EP 42

Stripe helps many of the world's most influential companies grow their revenue and build a more profitable business. Whether it's Hertz making checkout a smooth ride for their customers, OpenAI answering unprecedented demand, or PGA chipping away at back office inefficiency, Stripe's financial infrastructure platform helps companies achieve ambitious goals.
No matter what success looks like for your business, Stripe helps ensure the complexity of financial systems doesn't get in your way. Learn more at Stripe.com.
The new Huggies Snug and Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry. How soft are we talking? Unbelievably soft, irresistibly soft.
Doesn't your baby deserve a diaper that's oh so gentle on their tushy? Huggies Snug and Dry helps keep them comfy, cozy, and protected. Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection.
More parents choose the new Huggies Snug and Dry softness versus the leading premium diaper. Huggies, we got you, baby.
Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror. Through HERS, you can get dermatologist-trusted, clinically-proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer.
Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered. Getting started is simple.
Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you. The best part? Everything is 100% online.
If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door. No pharmacy trips, right, and you've, oh my God, the seller has 20 other people, which is true, especially in an area like South Florida.
Dude, how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option, right? No one else can figure out the problem. You're the only person standing in front of them.
And usually what their response is to that person, when I was doing this face to face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this. Everyone is trying.
When I hear that, I get excited and I'm like, oh, but I can, and I can figure it out. So that's typically the conversation that you're having.
And then of course we brought it in house. We brought the servicing in house, right? And all that.
And that's why our entire model is JVing with people. Like all you got to do is go find these things get them under contract or buy the deed with a limited poa yeah and you bring them to us and then you just put on your seatbelt dude get paid what's up the entrepreneur dna family i am back with another incredible guest if you are in real estate in any shape whether you're a realtor or you're an investor you are going to want to know who he is and you are going to want to know what reverse flipping is will dennis is in the house what's up bro appreciate it bro excited to be here let's do this all right so bro you blew my mind about two weeks ago i've been in this space for 17 years long time two weeks ago you're like colby i got.
This is it. I'm murdering it on this.
So let's just tell the people immediately, what is reverse flipping? All right. So basically, you know, my story, I got started about eight years ago and a typical wholesaler, what a reverse flip is, it's buying the deed to a property upfront, not tax deeds.
This straight, direct to seller, typically off market, but it works on market too. So you buy the deed to the property and you fix all the hair, right? For lack of a better term, this is basically your dead deals, your dead leads, et cetera.
You know, no equity, negative equity, upside down, reverse mortgages, bankruptcies, pre-foreclosure, multiple heirs to a situation, IRS liens, right? Those kinds of things. You buy the deed up front, you clean up the problem, right? Through, through our company.
And then you can choose your exit after the fact. So I, I called it reverse flipping because as you know, being in the business, you typically close on the deal.
Then you do the work and then God willing, you make a profit. If it's a fix and flip four or five months down the road, if it's a wholesale, maybe it's a double close.
Maybe it's not in this scenario, you're buying the deed. So you eliminate all the competition right there.
There's no more contracts. There's no more circumvention.
Right. And now you're fixing the problem.
And then you have choice as, as an investor. That's what we want, right? It's choice and freedom.
Right. Now you have the choice to say, do I want to birth this? Do I want to keep this? Do I want to sub to it? Do I want to innovate it i want to innovate it do i want to wholesale it do i want to fix and flip it or do i just want to wholesale it yeah yeah so the challenge everyone is feeling right now in the real estate space competition market is tough no inventory tough yeah i would say this seems like the obvious answer yeah so you know even going back to 0708 which i wasn't around in the space, but you were, right? And talking to a lot of my mentors.
Back then, doing deals became extremely difficult. Equity was on the downward, right? There was no buyers and all that stuff.
So the deals that work best in a market like that or in a downward market or in a tough market is creatives.

Yeah.

Luckily for me, I had a mentor that taught me a variation of this about five years ago. So I started buying deeds to properties.
And we'll kind of get into the story of how the whole reverse flipping thing came out. But basically, I was already doing that for five years.
And anytime I'd run into a property that was just like a dead end, nobody wanted, and we just couldn't figure it out. That's the one.
That was the one. Yeah.
And we just started buying the deeds. And we're talking about, and keep in mind, I'm in South Florida, right? So very expensive values, as you know, $2,000, $3,000, $1,000.
To buy the deed for $2,000. So you have ownership in this property.
A lot of my deals, man, get done with $0, right? And you can even tie in the sellers to the background, you know, to the back end of the deal. Heirs work as well.
Yeah. So this is a very effective strategy for like 20 different reasons.
Right. And you're also when you say you're tying in the heirs or the owners to the back end, meaning you share some revenue with them on the back end sale of whatever happens.
Not revenue. But for example, if an owner wants, I'm just going to make up numbers, but if an owner wants, well, I want 10,000 bucks.
That's fine. So as an investor, we're trying to mitigate our risk, right? So I'll give you a thousand upfront and I'll give you nine once I fix it.
Can I curse on the show? Yeah, of course. Once I fix this pile of shit, then I'll give you the nine.
Yeah, yeah. And now you're into this deal for a thousand bucks, but you own it day one.
Oh, this is brilliant. This is why I'm excited.
This is so you can even give an upside to the seller to incentivize them. You want to work with me so you can get your number.
Might get a little creative. This is again, this is like a creative finance strategy.
And that's why, you know, there isn't one right way or wrong way to do creative finance. No, there's not.
And, you know, that's the beauty when, you know, having wholesaled like 600 transactions, right? And a lot of the typical stuff, five years ago, I just, I don't know why, but I'm pretty good at solving complex shit. Yeah.
I like them. You know, it helps that we have the best team in Florida from a legal perspective, right? The title side, all that kind of stuff.
And then we can get into the servicing company and the processing company that we ended up buying in the process. Well, so, you know, for the average person watching this, whether they're a realtor or investors works for both, right? Anyone who's in the real estate space.
All realtors, by the way, should be an investor. I don't understand why they're not.
It doesn't make sense to me. You're doing the same thing we're doing.
Absolutely. You're taking like the lower value sticker price, which is the 3%.
Yeah. So realtors work with us a lot.
And now we have a huge network and it's only growing by the day. Yeah.
Where I always tell realtors, I'm like, don't fall into the myth and the bullshit that they fed you at, you know, Gold Coast schools and all this crap that, oh, it's 3%. I mean, the NAR just told you that you're not worth 3%.
That's pretty much what it is. So I would love to be in a business and I always wanted to be in business where I dictate the terms and nobody can come along and just say, well, you're not making that anymore.
Hey, real estate hustlers, are you sick and tired of seeing potential deals fall through the cracks? You know, the ones, they're looking promising, but now they're just dead leads, sitting there collecting dust. Well, it's time to change that, and it starts with the science of reverse flipping.
Imagine if you could breathe life into those deals, save on taxes, and boost your real estate portfolio like never before. With the science

of reverse flipping, you get exclusive access to our in-house legal team, the country's top loss mitigation pros, and three live weekly calls with investors who've closed over 3,000 deals combined. These are the guys who know how to make the impossible possible, and they want to help you do the same.
You either want every unfair advantage or don't. Every deal you let slip by is money lost, and every day you wait is missed opportunity.
But with the science of reverse flipping, you can turn those no's into yeses and those dead listings into deeds. Visit thescienceofreverseflipping.com now to join the community of serious investors who are taking action.
Don't wait for deals to come to you. Go out there and take them.
Visit scienceofreverseflipping.com today and let's get those leads working for you. Well, so a realtor should effectively, how many, I mean, I'm just kind of thinking immediately if you're watching this and and you're a realtor, you should be thinking, how many people have I put a listing on the market that could never really get there? Cause maybe it was a short sale.
Maybe it was a probate. Maybe you had seven different heirs and we couldn't get them all lined up.
So people would make offers. The heirs would always argue.
You couldn't get the deal closed. Realtors should be the one coming in and either doing it themselves or finding you, finding me, people that know how to do this and say, hey, guys, I have a deal that this will never sell in the regular MLS.
Yeah. So we do a couple of things on that.
So we do get a lot of deals from realtors. Yeah.
Either through our own efforts or usually now. And again, we can get into the details.
I haven't done marketing in 14 months, so not an ounce. Uh, I, so that, that should tell you everything, right? So realtors come to us and it's typically when they hit a dead end and they're like, Hey, got no idea, right.
How to do this short sale, et cetera. They're mostly largely tied around debt to some way.
That's, that's a great trigger for, for your for your audience but these realtors they should absolutely be finding these deals and if i was a realtor or even a wholesaler right wholesaling right now sucks yeah i mean you know you've been in the game i've been in the game i mean cost per lead sucks yeah cost per deal sucks especially in a market like phoenix or south florida yep dude the cost per deal in south florida is seven to eight grand. Terrible.
That's like if you're good. And you're going to spend a lot to get there.
Well, and you might bankrupt yourself in the process. Right, just to go get the first deal so you can get some momentum going.
You also have 25 dipshits to every deal that's offering your seller 2,000 more, 5,000 more. Then even if you get the contract, you got 25 dipshits going around your talk to the seller, right? So now you got to sue the seller, et cetera.
If any of this sounds familiar, you know what I'm talking about. Ask me how I know.
So once you buy the deed, it's over. You own it.
It's done. I think it's hilarious.
My attorney is usually the guy listed on the deed. They actually cold call and skip trace him and try to cold call him.
And I'm like, he owns it. There's yeah, there's no circumvention.
So what is the first? First of all, go to reverse flip.com forward slash Justin. If you're a realtor and investor reverse flip.com forward slash Justin.
So they all know that you came from here, but start getting the deals done that you're already working. That is first and paramount easiest way.
Just buy that website, go there immediately, start going now. Let's start talking about the bigger picture of what you have

actually working. This isn't just, hey, go find a hairy deal and that's the deal you want.
You

actually have like two lost mitt reps that have had 20 years of experience in negotiating. This

is all in-house, in your office, working every Yeah. So again, short, short version of the story.
Necessity is the mother of all invention, right? I had a business divorce in 2022. When I did that, I asked myself one very, very important question.
I said, do I want to rebuild out a massive operation like what I had for wholesaling? And the answer was a resounding no. I just didn't want to do it again.
Totally. You get a little older, you're like, no, dude, this is brain damage.
It's a lot. So at that time, I had about 23 deeds that we had bought.
Right. And thankfully I bought out my ex-partner and this is where the whole story kind of ties in.
So as I was resetting and restarting my career and my life and all this stuff, I didn't, I think I took like a week to think about it. And if that, and the idea was, okay, let's start working these deals.
And as we started to work, these deals started making a hundred K a deal, 150 K on a deal, 90 K on a deal, kept seven of those rentals, right. I still own them till this day.
Didn't pay taxes for three years because I had over $10 million worth of real estate. That's what happens when you own the deed, by the way, you could buy a deed for $0.
Now you have all the tax depreciation. So we can get into that.
But as we were solving these issues, we were using these consultants and it was referred to me by a good friend. And these guys had multiple years of experience, right? Working for HUD.
And all they did at HUD was write the HUD guidelines. Oh, that's it? That's it.
So basically any HUD, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Jenny Mae, all that stuff, they wrote the guidelines for those things. So nobody understands how loss mitigation or how these mortgages works.
And I will give that tip to anybody. The reason why I went from the wholesaler, right, even though I was in the 1% of the 1% of wholesalers, you know, making 8 million bucks a year to transcending that to, holy shit, now I'm a real investor.
And now, you know, we make tens of millions of dollars. The reason why that was able to happen was because I educated myself.
And if you understand the game and you understand the rules to the game, aka debt, legal, et cetera, you can write your own ticket. No doubt.
And that's, so once we did that, they were so good at what they were doing that after about the 10th one, we decided to buy the company. And we literally rolled them in-house.
We made them partners. And we said, look, you guys are doing about 90 deals, 70 deals a year.
We're thinking a little bit bigger, maybe 700 to a thousand a year. Just a little bit bigger.
And we're going to expand this. And I also knew by being an educator in the space and being in all the masterminds, right, for years and years and years, I never, you could tell me this because you've been in it longer than me.
Have you ever heard anyone at any of our masterminds talk about this kind of stuff? Like in detail. So I knew that the marketplace had a big ass opportunity for it.
But more importantly, as putting myself in the shoes of that person who was once the wholesaler trying to come up, right? And chasing that dangling carrot. How do you make more money? Well, you got to spend more money in marketing, right? That bullshit, which is a myth, by the way.
I knew that the marketplace needed it, and I knew that my students needed it. So then I taught it to my students, and I was like, all right, well, I can do it, but can they do it? And then they started doing it, and a 26-year-old kid made $1.2 million last year in Miami alone.
That's crazy. With a team of three, two VAs, and him.
So this is like, it's 25 deals, man. I mean, that wasn't a lot of volume, right? And so specifically to give people like, he's 23, six, six.
Where was he finding these deals? So the deals are just hairy deals. Yeah.
And he was already doing some marketing. So these were typically his dead deals, dead deals.
Yeah. So dead deal, dead, we call it, we're turning dead leads into deeds.
That's, that's our slogan. That's what it is.
It's pretty catchy. I'm not going to lie.
I like it. Probably take credit for that one, but, uh, you know, and it works, right? So again, there's no competition and that's the other thing too.
That's a big, big thing by the way. No, it's massive.
So if you've been in this space at all, if you've been wholesaling, if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall, right. And you've, oh my God, the seller has 20 other people, which is true, especially in an area like South Florida.
Dude, how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option, right? No one else can figure out the problem. You're the only person standing in front of them.
And usually what their response is to that person, when I was doing this face to face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this. Everyone is trying.
When I hear that, I get excited and I'm like, oh, but I can, and I can figure it out. That's right.
So that's typically the conversation that you're having. Um, and then of course we brought it in house.
We, we brought the servicing in house, right. And all that.
And, and that's why our entire model is JVing with people. Like all you got to do is go find these things, get them under contract or by the deed with a limited POA.
Yeah. And you bring them to us and then you just put on your seatbelt.
So when they go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin, that's them just giving you the deal to do a JV. Correct.
I would tell you guys listening and watching, do that because for you to try to learn what these guys are already doing, it's going to take you the seven years of beating your head against the wall. It would be impossible because these, you'd have to duplicate 21 years of loss mitigation experience and working at HUD for eight years.
So it would literally be, I mean, the way that we understand as a company, how the loss mitigation and the short sale works. And that's just one aspect, right? Bankruptcy works, how probates work,

our attorney who's in house, right?

The way that we understand that

is what gives us the competitive edge.

And by the way, the average short sale,

if, if, this is a real statistic for your audience,

about 53% of all short sales in America fall out.

They never get completed.

That is a fact.

Feel free to fact check it out.

And is there a reason? Do you know the reason? Bad documentation is the first one and bad processing, meaning that they didn't submit the documents in the right form and they didn't know what department to go through. Interesting.
Yeah. So I'll give you a, can I give a quick example? Yeah.
So if you're watching this and you're in Miami-Dade, so Cutler Bay, Miami-Dade County, very hot market. This property has an ARV of 800.
There was a guy who I personally know, awesome investor, right? Realtor brought him a short sale. Yeah.
Standard, right? Was on the market for about three months. He calls me one day, this is maybe two, three weeks ago.
And he's like, hey, dude, I got this deal. We got to the closing table and we got the payoff for the first position.
But turns out that there was a second position mortgage. Yay.
Right. And nobody can find it.
And he said, do you guys think you could find it? And I said, I guarantee you we could find it. So within 48 hours, my guys found the second position.
Not only did they find it, but they moved the second position underneath the first position. So now they combined it into one payoff.
By the way, that second position was $150,000 mortgage.

Okay.

Now, a total payoff of $430,000 has been negotiated for both.

Because the second knew, well, if the first goes to foreclosure, I'm shit out of luck.

That's right.

So nine grand is better than no grand, which is what they're getting.

We are wholesaling this deal now for $590,000 without swinging a hammer in less than 30 days.

That's $150,000 spread. Okay spread on a wholesale deal off of that.
And it was only because the agent didn't know how to get it through. Didn't know how to get it through.
Also did not know how to find the second. And by the way, there was a short sales specialist that was helping them to do this.
Couldn't do it. So do you guys ever get like pushback from agents or is this where, cause I can hear agents already.
Oh, I already know how to do that. I already know how to do that.
Did you just say, all right, well then go do it and come back to me when it doesn't happen? So I have two things to say on that. Number one, I don't chase any deals.
You're either gonna do a deal with me or you're not. I'm not here to convince you of my value.
I'm certainly not here to waste your time. We're buying two to three deeds a day.
We don't have that time. So I think when you approach people that way, they feel that energy.
And let's be honest, part of that is not going to work out. I've been comfortable with that for years now, as I'm sure you are.
Totally. So that's one.
Two, there's no reason for that agent not to work with you. And it's very simple.
Hey, listen, I see it's been sitting on the market now for 300 days. Yeah, it, it has.
OK, let's take ego out of the way for a second. All right.
You're still going to make your commission. Why? Because by by federal law, the bank's going to pay you the three percent anyway.
That's right. We will guarantee you the three percent.
Let our team take a crack at it. And I promise you we're going to get this done.
I haven't seen a realtor that said no. And if they do, that's not a realtor I want to work with anyway.
That's's right and so is there any like is this a crazy amount of paperwork people need to come up with is it like over the top no no that's the crazy thing so there's two ways to really do these deals right um and each way has two documents okay very simple first way is your typical wholesale contract all right use whichever one you want you're in Florida, use mine. Consult with an attorney, but use mine.
And a limited POA. Yeah, a limited power of attorney.
Stripe helps many of the world's most influential companies grow their revenue and build a more profitable business. Whether it's Hertz making checkout a smooth ride for their customers, OpenAI answering unprecedented demand, or PGA chipping away at back office inefficiency, Stripe's financial infrastructure platform helps companies achieve ambitious goals.
No matter what success looks like for your business, Stripe helps ensure the complexity of financial systems doesn't get in your way. Learn more at stripe.com.
The new Huggies Snug and Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry. How soft are we talking? Unbelievably soft, irresistibly soft.
Doesn't your baby deserve a diaper that's oh so gentle on their tushy? Huggies Snug and Dry helps keep them comfy, cozy, and protected. Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection.
More parents choose the new Huggies Snug and Dry Softness versus the leading premium diaper. Huggies, we got you, baby.
Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror. Through HERS, you can get dermatologist-trusted, clinically-proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer.
Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered. Getting started is simple.
Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you. The best part? Everything is 100% online.
If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door.

No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches.

Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month.

Start your initial free online visit today at Forhers.com slash talk.

That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.

Tontounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required.
Price marries both on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information.
Second way is my favorite way. Get a deed, quick claim deed, from the seller or the heirs, and get the limited POA.
So those are the two ways to do it. The first question I'm having, if I'm listening to this or watching this, why would they give you a deed? Why would the owner of the home give you their ownership of the home? It's a great question.
So number one, they have tried and tried and tried probably 15, 20 times to sell this deal. And they're at a point where they're like, I got no option.
That's right. So that's where your negotiating comes into play.
I've structured deeds with zero dollars, right? Structured them all the way up. The most I've ever paid for a deed, by the way, is $15,000.
$15,000 is the most. $15,000 for an asset that was worth $300,000.
I made $111,000. I mean, I want everyone to understand even pure economics.
If you invest $15,000 into something, you make $100,000 back. It's like a seven times ROAS, right? Like your return on your investment.
Yeah, and even the better question after that, what was my ROT, my return on time? Because it took 63 days. Wow.
Yeah, so annualized, it's compounded at like tens of thousands of percents or whatever. This is so genius.
Like I can't, I'm pretty geeked up. So again, reverseflip.com forward slash forward slash Justin yeah I mean to me this is the thing right now that like this is the game changer it is because by the way there's no economic time where it doesn't work no actually we're not going to get into politics or anything like that but where the market is where the interest rates are where the affordability all the crazy shit show propping up the market that we've seen in the last four years.
I don't give a shit if it's Kamala or Trump or whoever the hell, right? Or the fucking tooth fairy that gets into office. It's irrelevant.
Like the market will shift. It already is cooling off.
We're seeing it even in South Florida days on market are higher, right? So as an economy goes into a downward economy, and I can prove it to you in the state of Florida alone, bankruptcy filings year over year are up 33%. So that just tells me that's one metric, right? Defaults are up by another 25%.
We bought one in Jacksonville the other day that was literally a 2024 construction. Six-month-old loan.
Seller just walked away, gave us the deed. We're taking it over sub two.
That is wild. And so, and this goes into, you can also even structure just more different creative finance deals from where you already have it.
You keep it as a rental, you take it over sub two because the loan's good. I mean, there's so many options.
This is why I'm saying investors and realtors alike, they need to be giving you these deals. I mean, they have to start filling out those forms to give you the deals because they're everywhere.
And you're talking about a downward market, right? Because that's where we're at. I'll make the argument, and I know you're going to agree.
In an appreciating market, they're still divorced, they're still bankruptcy, they're still death, right? They're still bad loans. They over leverage themselves into a tsunami.
It doesn't matter. It's basically recession proof for lack better way than you're saying it it is because i'll give this simple analogy if you're already doing this business whether it's a realtor wholesaler flipper i don't care right sub tour whatever the hell you want to call it you are using a screwdriver manual crank I'm coming to you with a fucking power drill with all the drill bits you need to go, and the work that takes you an hour, you can get it done in 20 seconds.
Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you? Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking of my database this second and saying my entire team needs to scrub this database to go over dead leads.
And the reason of why they were dead, just gonna say here's the five things we're looking for go find all the you know divorce or inheritance short sale uh whatever the case and i'm just gonna go have them give you all my leads there's so many myths i mean look we can talk about it if you'd like i mean i chimed into your community yeah right what was it two hours later somebody got a deed in your community and then the next day there was another two guys that got deeds so again taught it to newer people yeah more experienced people it's not rocket science right you're just changing how you're doing the deal but you're also talking to the right people this business and this is more like a personal thing for me and you've been in it seeing them all come and go and go, right? All the educators that we're talking about. That's right.
The shit that's been peddled in our business is trash, right? It's just, it's redundant. It's the same thing.
It's the same thing, dude. Everybody's just saying another variation, right? Novatians were a hot topic, right? We know who was the biggest guy in them.
He's a good friend of mine. He's a beast.
And then all of a sudden there's 10 guys. Oh my God.
And there'll probably be 10 copycats. We can do this too.
And that's great, but they'll never have the sauce that we have and the servicers and that company. Right.
And, and we, when I got into education, my model from the very beginning was I want to create a community that's we're JVing with each other. I don't want to pump and dump and one and done with you.
That's right. Most of my students' stick rate, their community members, is over a year.
Yep. Right? So we're doing deals again and again and again because they get it.
They say, well, I go find this. I bring it back.
My job is done. And I'm always making double, triple the average deal size, even on a JV.
100%. So what is the first thing that you would say someone needs to start thinking about? How to think about it? Where to go? What would you advise someone today? Right now, like I use this podcast as how is Will Dennis going to change someone's life today? You have a huge story.
And by the way, if you haven't seen his first podcast we did together, go to the Science of Flipping podcast show straight up hardcore full story blown out story the business divorce the seven million almost eight million in a year wholesaling that is on another episode you'll find that somewhere in the comment section below but what would you tell someone right now even if they haven't even thought about real estate like oh i want a piece want a piece of this. Sure.
What would you tell them to go do?

Well, first things first, join our free Facebook group. Yeah.
It's a community that grows by the day. There's already people in there that are doing deals, right? And asking questions.
So you could partner with somebody and somebody that's already doing it, right? That's already reverse flipping. Secondly, you could just download a list, right? just like you would in the regular wholesale,

but just make it, you know, go after reverse mortgages, right? Go after things that nobody's going after. Um, and you don't need much money to get started on that.
That's the key. There's so many things I want to bring up.
So this isn't like some big marketing budget. Go do $20,000 a month in PPC.
No. Go rip 10 grand a month in TV.
No, that rip 10 grand a month in tv no that is not what i teach right that is not what i teach this is look this is coming to you from a guy that did that for seven years multiple six figure a month marketing budget right almost and you have the scars went crazy oh hell yeah right but and i was proud that i did that sure but this is smarter not harder yeah why is it a volume did you know people especially on instagram in our spaces educators oh i did 38 deals this month do you really give a shit i don't care that's a vanity metric yeah i stopped tracking that a lot if you did three and you made three hundred thousand dollars doing three pretty cool although through through our market and you know our jv structure we're we, we're buying about 60 homes a month.

So that's not to say that we're not doing high volume.

But this is what I'll challenge any other guru or whatever in this space.

Show me 50, 60 deals a month with an average deal size of 70K.

And I'll wait.

There's no way.

I'll wait.

You'll be here for a while.

Yeah.

And show me how you're building a eight-figure rental portfolio through this process with little to no money because i'll wait again yeah and then show me a community that you've taught that can do that and that is doing that and i'll wait again so again that's that's maybe my fuck you piece to the whole community of the educators and i got no problem with them. But the thing is the same regurgitated shit has been peddled and man, I'm sick and tired of it because there is a better way to do it and to be a real investor.
So there's, you said something right there that I wanted to hit on. This is really real estate investing and wholesaling is fine.
It has this place, right? I still wholesale blah. We talked about your wholesaling one.
Great. Sure.
But there's a bigger upside of why you want to be a real real estate investor. Yeah.
The big thing is the tax write-off. It's massive.
Let's talk, talk to us about how this could be a utility for all those people who are like, great. I make a lot of money, but I need more tax write-offs because I also am paying that money out.
Yeah, so high level, about every million dollars that you own in real estate, depending on your tax filing and all that, is probably $30,000 to $50,000 per year in non-taxable income, right? Straight to your bottom line on your taxes. So would you agree that the average property value in America is $300,000 right now? Yeah, a little higher, but about that.
Let's be conservative. $300 across the country, right? Cool.
So if you bought a deed to a property for $1,000, which we do every time. We did two of them yesterday.
$1,000. And it's worth $300,000.
You just bought $300,000 worth of depreciating income in a real estate asset.

That's right.

So do that 10 times a year.

That's 3 million.

You're not paying taxes.

You have $120,000 give or take per year tax credit.

That's per year.

That's right.

On a 27 and a half year schedule.

Don't even get me started on going creative and going cost seg and accelerating depreciation

because now you're capturing way more than that. I haven't paid taxes in three and a half years legally by the way mr irs and that's the reason why that's why everyone needs to be in real estate even for those listening as a w-2 employee this is one of those strategies that if you just did for a year one quarter yeah and you do it the way you're exactly saying.
And they just held it.

Yeah.

Just hold it.

I got a lot of guys that are in our circle that come to me and they're like,

dude, let's just buy one of these D's and just hold it.

I'm like, absolutely.

Sure.

And by the way, this also works on a million dollar property.

You'd think, oh, it can't tap.

That's another part.

This isn't segmented into the price of the home.

No.

And to the point, it could be an apartment. It could be a commercial mall strip it could be anything yeah and and that's what i was going to say this is not segmented to just residential real estate this happens on the commercial side totally right there's receiverships there's all that stuff which a receivership is basically a bankruptcy sale yeah with a trustee on the commercial side the commercial guys will know what that is.
Dude, this happens all the time. People think that sub twos can't happen on commercial.
It can. And you can reverse flip every single one of them.
Right. And another couple of things like good.
I want to leave, you know, the audience with like some good tangible things. Reverse mortgages.
We have been taught in our business. Oh, you can't do anything with them.
They suck. They're amazing.
I'm telling you. In this strategy.
In this strategy. Unbelievable.
And you can reinstate reverse mortgages. It does not just have to go into foreclosure.
And this is the secret sauce, is you have guys with 20 years of law submit experience that know exactly to the nats' ass how to negotiate this type of stuff. I like that expression.
To the nats' ass. I'm going to use that one.
But this is why people need to work with you. If you don't know, go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin.
Start working with Willie immediately because if you have these deals in your pipeline, if you're working these deals doing any marketing or even just want to get started. Yes.
Yes. I would tell everyone I'm working with you.
Yeah. Like everyone should be working with you.
Yeah. And so many, you know, community leaders like you and I have had a great friendship for years.
Right. But there's there's a lot of our friends that have communities, too, that now have me going into the communities.
Right. And we're teaching this stuff.
And now their students and community members are coming over here and doing these types of deals. Because, again, if we're being honest, the industry as a whole has a lot of pain right now.
Yep's a lot of pain. Then there's a lot of people making it look pretty, and that's cool, right? You can rent all the Lambos that you want.
But the reality is there's a lot of pain, and there's not a lot of real people doing real deals. That's right.
And the cost per lead, the cost per deal keeps going up, dude. And look, again, do you want to talk to 1,000 people to do a a deal or do you want to talk to 10 to do two deals and so again kind of you've already said it but the a couple lists that they could go kind of target right yeah short sale divorce short sales on market or off market by right you could pivot them from a realtor on market those are free leads right there there's a free nugget for you right there.
100%. Go do a search in your local market, ping all the active pendings and active with contracts with short sales, filter out 200 plus days.
By the way, we process short sales in 30 to 45 days. That's insane timing.
So if a short sale, if you see a short sale on the market with a realtor that has 150 plus days, just remember my face and my voice somebody fucked up yeah and that is an opportunity for you to go and convert that and just give the realtor their commission that's right it's it's a free fucking lead in miami-dade county broward county and palm beach county so south florida alone i did the search yesterday with my team there's 149 this is just sitting there and these things have 400 days 300 days 600 days we're picking them up i mean you know you're putting in offers and saying let us but the conversation still has to be we got to do the negotiating of course 100 which they will not say you will have some dipshit realtors of course you will there's dipshits in every you know there's clowns in every circus right but the majority of them are gonna be like what the fuck do i have to lose right i. Because how does a realtor make money? They only make money when the deal closes.
That's right. So if you're sitting there with a listing for 300 days and you're like, oh my God, what am I going to do? This guy comes along and says, hey, we can figure this out.
We got the best short sale specialist in the country. At that point, do you just need the power of attorney? Yeah.
Do you even need a purchase agreement? You do need a purchase agreement. So is there a percentage that you start to offer on these short sales just to keep it a short sale? So it's below the bank loan.
Or do you treat that a little bit more normal when you go after the short sales where it's like, all right, where would this deal make sense? So that's part of what our team does. And we do have deal analysis for you.
And we're coming out now with a report, if you're in our community, where if you have,

we don't work with leads, we work with deeds, right? Or with deals. So you have to have something on their contract.
I'm not the guy you're going to come to and be like, hey, I got the seller, go into the community for that. And the community will answer those questions.
And then you can convert them. Now our team is available for you, right? You mobile notary, this, that, that's part of the JV structure.
But if I had to give it a percentage, probably 75 to 80% of what that property is listed for. Yeah.
Basically, that's where you want to be. You know, another common mistake of a short sale is they submit way too low of an offer in and it gets kicked right back.
That's right. You have to remember too, man, a lot of these short sale services, the way that it works in the country is Fannie Mae is like Jesus.
Okay. Sits on top of everybody.
Fannie Mae has 30 million loans. Okay.
They're the big daddy. Yeah.
And that's Uncle Sam. Okay.
That's Uncle Sam's daughter. She's hot and she's got a lot of money.
Okay. She doesn't fuck around and she doesn't put out for anybody.
That's right. So just for for lack of a better term beneath that there's about 60 servicers okay these are phh uh mr cooper shell point aquin i mean the list goes on and on right all these servicers have different investors behind them private investors public fund pension fund i mean not to get so nitty-gritty sure all of those have different processes for submitting short sales and for submitting lost mint right which is why the fuck it's so goddamn difficult to do yeah and why we're so good at it because we have the experience of 20 plus years to do that that's right so what i'm saying by that is you just need to figure out where when you tie up the the deal, just bring it to us.
We figured out where that deal fits. That's right.
And what the highest, we have about a 70% success ratio, by the way. 70 of all these deals go through.
Yeah. The wholesaling market and industry doesn't even have a 30% fallout rate.
Like you're a stud if you have that. 100%.
And by the way, I'll urge any wholesalers seeing this right now. If you do,

your fallout contracts are

these fucking deals. That's right.
The 30%,

they usually fall out because of this shit.

They're hairy. They're hairy.

Look, I picked a

niche that nobody wanted to deal with

and I said, fuck it. I'll be the janitor.

I'll clean up the shit.

Turns out shit makes a lot of money. Well, Andy, put a system behind it, man.
Don't fool yourself. You took something and said, OK, a lot of brute force to start.
Sure. But how do we systemize this? How do we put a structure behind it? So it's a repetition where you can just rinse and repeat all the time.
That's why you're able to do what you're able to do. No, I appreciate that.
You know, I think, you know, relationship capital is something we talk about all the time, right? It, I always say this, dude, to all my students and anyone I meet, I'm like, amateurs compete, professionals collaborate. So if you want to be a dipshit, go ahead, go out there and compete.
No problem, man. You might get to the corner.
You want to be a professional like me and like you, you collaborate. We collaborate.
Totally. You JV, you go 50-50, right? Or whatever that looks looks like you go so much further that way why would i want to do look could i go out and build a podcast i'm sure sure i call it something else that are dna i'm sure yeah but you already fucking did it yeah i'd rather come on your show come on line and get going great and you got the best audience right why would i do that i would just collaborate with you right and the same thing on the.
You'd be like, well, I've never really done a lot of these. I don't like hairy deals.
Fucking, I already lost my hair. Don't need to lose more.
Let me just pivot them all over to you. And that's what we do.
And we service your community, right? We're servicing other people's community. And again, I just want to see people win, dude.
That's it. It doesn't have to be that fucking hard.
Love that. Yeah.
And I'm hundred percent convinced that based on the feedback and the overwhelming deals you know volume that we're getting this is the future of real estate yeah um and somebody's gonna watch this a year from now and be like holy shit you know they said this a year ago and reverse flipping is 1000 the new way to do real estate yeah um it it's just what. Do they have to, in the purchase, in the example of the purchase agreement, is it your entity? Is it their entity? Who needs to do that first? That's a great question.
So when it's a deed, we put it in a land trust. The beneficiary to the land trust is our LLC, one of our entities.
And then the trustee is their entity. On the POA, and this is a great point,A is always have to go to a natural born person, not an entity.
So another reason why short sales get kicked back. Yeah.
Because they owe one, two, three main street LLC. No such thing.
Right. So it has to go from John Smith to Joe Smith.
Right. So it's usually a member of our team.
That's that's who's the POA. Why do we need the POA? We didn't really talk about that.
We need the poa so we don't have to go back to the seller

and or air 67 times if we needed anything signed that's right that's what guys we're doing a lot of the work on the front end so that you don't have to and this is ask me how i know there's a lot of brain damage of trying it the wrong way and this is exactly what works so another reason why a lot of these transactions don't close is time kills all deals so the the faster you can get the documents, the faster you can go back, the less amount of times you have to fix a mistake. You're going to the front of the line.
Last thing I'll say on this, speaking of the front of the line, because we ended up purchasing the servicing firm, we now sit at what's called a Fannie Mae preferred vendor. Most people that's going to drop like a silent bomb no one's going to know what that means just know that it takes three years of a process to go through that and our files go to the top of the pile at Fannie Mae and all the other servicers so again we're not just making Stripe helps many of the world's most influential companies grow their revenue and build a more profitable business.
Whether it's Hertz making checkout a smooth ride for their customers, OpenAI answering unprecedented demand, or PGA chipping away at back office inefficiency, Stripe's financial infrastructure platform helps companies achieve ambitious goals. No matter what success looks like for your business, Stripe helps ensure the complexity of financial systems doesn't get in your way.
Learn more at Stripe.com. Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror.
Through HERS, you can get dermatologists-trusted, clinically proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer.

Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered.

Getting started is simple.

Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you.

The best part? Everything is 100% online.

If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door.

No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches.

Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month.

Start your initial free online visit today at Forhers.com slash talk.

That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.

Tone-tounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality.

Prescription required.

Price varies based on product and subscription plan.

See you next time. H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.
Tumpounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required.
Price marries both on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information.
We actually have real tangible assets and intellectual property behind this, and that's why we're able to do the deals at the pace that we're able to do them. Oh, my God.
I mean, again, guys, flip.com forward slash Justin. Um, what, what would you really want to kind of leave every, like if someone wanted to buy, let me give you another question.
Yeah. Let's say you get it negotiated.
If they wanted to buy the deal after you guys got it, how would that work for you guys? You mean the, the JV? Yeah. Um, so we would have first rider refusal, right.
To, to buy buy it because obviously we're buying and we would buy it at fair rate with them. They could wholesale it to us.
It's not a problem, right? A lot of the times what happens is somebody will bring a deal and it'll be, you know, again, let's say, let's use the average 70K, right? 70K profit. Yeah.
That's what we could wholesale it for, let's say, on the open market. And let's say they're like, hey, man, I would say, hey, I want to keep this as a rental.
Well, I'll give you the 35K assignment. Got it for let's say on the open market and let's say they're like hey man um we i would say hey i want to keep this as a rental well i'll give you the 35k assignment got it that's not a problem yeah so it would be simple if they wanted to keep it for a rental that's fine the same inverse right you can buy it from us give us our portion that's fine and you're still getting them by the way dude this is crazy to say but i am i'm gonna say this right now on camera and I don't give a shit.
Anybody can fact check me on this. I am probably the only guy in the single family space right now with my team that is buying at under 45 cents on the dollar in America per asset.
I believe it. 100%.
And I'm doing it largely in South Florida. Which is borderline impossible.
Which is like saying 10% nationwide. Because it's wild.
It's wild. But that is our average.
It's about 43%. 43 cents on the dollar in layman's terms.
That's what we're buying. So the deal, even if you did a JV with us and you were to buy it from us or vice versa,

you are so well below in terms of margin. The amount of equity you have, all of it.

Dude, it's wild.

It's wild.

The average equity that we're walking into is a buck 50.

Wow.

I mean, it's a lot, dude.

It's a lot.

You're talking about, I've seen younger guys come in here and they were wholesaling for two, three years you know god bless them right busting their ass and door knocking and this and that dude a couple deals they're like what the like their life is just they buy rentals through it like they dude they got rentals for life i mean they don't have to pay taxes like crazy i don't know about you but i've stroked a a six-figure check to the irs before it to me one time. And it never happened again because I like my butt.
Yeah, that's right. I just do.
That's exactly right. How do you want to leave with the people? What were some things that you just want to say, guys? Here's what to look for.
Here's what to do. Yeah.
Go check out reverseflip.com. Yeah.
All that. Yeah.
So, of course, our main page is reverseflip.com. I recently just did a free webinar for about an hour yeah where i go really in depth here and it the the replay is available on that site um we have an intake form which is also on the reverseflip.com uh site you click right through it and you literally can submit your deal right there our team is going to send an email right away then a member member of our team is going to be in contact with you.
Again, you don't have to do anything else past the point of here's the deal. Thank you.
Now you're going to be in contact with us. And of course, you're going to have full transparency throughout the entire transaction.
But your involvement stops. You don't have to deal with the seller.
You don't have to deal with showing to buyers. 20, 30, hey, I got all my contractors coming.
Wow, there's 16 contractors. Yes, yes.
You don't have to deal with the seller. You don't have to deal with showing to buyers, right? 20, 30, Hey, I got all my contractors coming.
Wow. There's 16 contractors.
Yes. Yes.
You don't have to deal with that shit. You don't have to deal with circumvention, nothing like that.
So reverse flip.com is the main page. The Facebook group is also, um, listed on there as well.
It's reverse flipping is the Facebook group that I think it's a couple hundred people now. And we just opened it up a week ago.
So. So it's growing, you know, probably 30, 40 people a day.
My Instagram, Willie Numbers, right? Yeah. That's where I talk all this content about it, right? I post a shit ton of testimonials, and not just testimonials like, hey, I did this, and it's great, and Willie's an awesome guy.
No, actual HUDs with deeds and with profits and with wire transfers. I like to post wire transfers transfers i don't post videos inside a property touring it yeah i post fucking money yeah because that's what i want to see from gurus right show me what you're making don't show me what you're driving yeah shit about your rolex yeah i care about the money that's coming in right um and yeah our community is just growing man that that's what i would say the love it the hairy dead deals That's what you want to go after.
Guys, Willie Numbers on Instagram. Will Dennis is his name.
Reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. Give him the deals.
JV with him now. I appreciate you being on, bro.
I appreciate you, dude. Guys, if this helped at all in the real estate space or in business, make sure you share this with two of your friends.
I'll see you on the next episode with another great guest. Six months from now, you could be running a 5K,

booking that dream trip,

or seeing thicker, fuller hair

every time you look in the mirror.

Through HERS, you can get dermatologist-trusted,

clinically-proven prescriptions

with ingredients that go beyond

what over-the-counter products offer.

Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments,

HERS has you covered.

Getting started is simple.

Just fill out an intake form online,

and a licensed provider will recommend

And I'll see you next time. Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered.
Getting started is simple. Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you.
The best part? Everything is 100% online. If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door.
No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches. Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month.
Start your initial free online visit today at ForHers.com slash talk. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.
Tontounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required.
Price marries both on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information.
Spreadsheets, clunky software, a hundred different logins just to run your business? There's a better way. Odoo.
One simple, connected platform that handles sales, inventory, accounting, and more. so you can focus on growing, not juggling.

Make the switch today at odoo.com.