The Need for Financial Education | Chris Miles | EP18

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications.
Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely, and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com slash podcast.
Six months from now, you could be running a 5k, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror. Through HERS, you can get dermatologists trusted, clinically proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer.
Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, hers has you covered. Getting started is simple.
Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you. The best part? Everything is 100% online.
If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door. No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches.
Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month. Start your initial free online visit today at Forhers.com slash talk.
That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk. Tontounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality.
Prescription required. Price marries both on product and subscription plan.
See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. For the ones who get it done, the most important part is the one you need now, and the best partner is the one who can deliver.
That's why millions of maintenance and repair pros trust Grainger, because we have professional-grade supplies for every industry, even hard-to-find products. And we have same-day pickup and next-day delivery on most orders.

But most importantly, we have an unwavering commitment to help keep you up and running.

Call, click Grainger.com, or just stop by.

Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

Yo, yo, Entrepreneur DNA, we are back with another incredible episode and an incredible guest. This man has retired twice by the time he was 39.
He is the CEO of Money Ripples, and he's the anti-financial advisor, Chris Miles. What's up, brother? Hey, what's up, Justin? So cool to be here, Mithya.
Yeah, this is going to be good stuff, dude. You and I have gone back and forth about money and how it works and real estate and passive income.
I mean, this was a no-brainer to have you on this episode of Entrepreneur DNA, so I'm excited for you to be here, dude. Yeah, same here, man.
So you retired twice by the time you were 39. I think most people on the planet are trying to just retire.
So talk a little bit about like the fact that you retired, said, well, I got to get back in the game because I'm bored or whatever the case was, then did it again, and then retired again. Give us that journey.
I think most people are just like, I just want to try to retire around 65 years old. I think most people are that way.
Yeah. Well, definitely retiring twice before you're 40 sounds pretty impressive.
The only reason I had to be twice is because I screwed up the first time. And so let me take you back.
I wasn't raised around a lot of money. I was raised by pretty hardworking middle-class parents.
Even my mom was an artist. She was trained by the same master painter that trained Bob Ross that paints us happy happy little clouds and trees and stuff you know and bob ross we're both old enough we all know bob ross legend we all know bob ross right and so uh so i grew up in that environment you know watching that stuff on on pbs and whatnot and and uh my dad he was hard-working guy in the automotive industry he was he was always about telling me like hey your word is was telling me, follow your passions, your heart.
And, and so naturally I became a, you know, a right brain, left brain confused kid. Um, but the one thing when it came to money is that the one thing they had in common is that we never had enough of it, right? We can't afford this.
What do you think I am made of money? Money doesn't grow on trees, you know, you know, those kinds of things I'd hear growing up. And, and I vowed I never wanted to be that way.
And so when I went to college, you know, I was the first one in my family to do so. And as I did that, I said, you know, I can see pretty quickly that if I just follow this path, I'm not going to become free because I wanted to control my time, my destiny, my own freedom, you know, my own everything.
And I knew that that path was to be an entrepreneur. And so, uh, so I actually dropped out of college with one class to go before I got my bachelor's

and it was supposed to be temporary. I figured I'd just get some business experience and then

go back and get my MBA. Right.
Sure. Well, as I dropped out, you know, and I'm like taking this

little hiatus that was supposed to be temporary. I was, I was trying to find some business.
I wasn't

sure what it was. And finally had a friend that he told me, he says, Hey Chris, you know what? Like I've got, you know, I just got hired with this financial firm.
It's pretty cool. And I don't know what it was.
Maybe I was like Adam Sandler and the wedding singer or something where it's like, I like money. You know, you know, when he goes in the bank for that job, he's like, I like money.
I have a jar on top of my fridge. I'd like to add more to it.
That's where you come in. I was kind of the same way, you know, although I was smart, I just really wasn't trained much in money.
But good news is if you want to be a financial advisor, it doesn't require anything. All you have to do is not be a criminal and pass a test with 70% and you're in.
So it's a pretty low barrier of interest. That is insane.
I want to stop you there, bro, because I didn't know that. That is wild that the vast majority of Americans rely on financial advisors.
And what you just said is essentially what can get you licensed to be a financial advisor who is in large part responsible for advising people on how to use their money and what the best investments are, correct? Exactly. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's way harder to become a realtor than it is to become a financial advisor even with multiple licenses as an advisor it's not that tough I mean some people can pass those tests in a matter of a couple weeks they're done you know so it's you're right so people really need to like do you have a word I don't mean to cut your story off but do you have a word for those people who are like they're heavily reliant on financial advisors, because listen,

I, I, you know, my story and it's not about me, it's about you, but you know, that is insane

that someone who can go past a test, just not have like essentially a felony, but then could

advise people on what to do with quarter million dollars, a million dollars or whatever it may be.

Like what's your advice to those people looking at financial advisors?

You know, I, I think at business owners, we get it right. Like we know that if we want to follow anybody, it's somebody who's been there, done that and still doing it today.
And when you look at financial advisors, I mean, and really this is what I kind of realized, right? Because you know, this kind of goes off my story because several years later, my dad asked me to look at his finances. He's like, become my financial advisor.
Well, I looked at all his numbers and my dad was like the ultra penny pinching saver. I mean, he made Dave Ramsey look, looked like he was a spender, right? I mean, that's the kind of guy my dad was, you know, he wasn't the guy that wouldn't just not tip at a restaurant.
He'd be the guy, if he got bad service, he would steal from the restaurant just because they owed him something. So anyways, I'm sitting down with him and he paid off all of his debt, including his house in just 18 years.
He'd stuffed money in his 401k for decades. So he was like the ultra saver, like the model poster child of what I was teaching.
And as I sat down with him, he says, he says, Chris, what can I do? And I said, well, dad, you're 61 years old right now. If you want to retire today, you better hope you die in five years because that's how long your money is going to last before you run out.
He's like, all right, well, what do I do? You know, what else can I do? I said, I don't know. You did everything right.
And I don't want to just sell you something in the stock market because you're my dad. I don't want to just throw you into something just because I make a commission.
And then all of a sudden the market tanks, which by the way, this is the end of 2005. It's good.
I didn't just throw them in something in the stock market because that's right. 2007 and eight, nine crashed.
Right. So, uh, so anyways, this bugged me and that's where it led me to this next place, because this is the question you should be asking financial advisors because just a few weeks later, as I'm, as I'm kind of questioning, almost having this business existential crisis, right? Or I'm questioning whether I'm teaching you even works.
Well, of course, a few weeks later, I'm talking with a friend that I trained to be a financial advisor, but then he went to go do real estate investing. And he asked me, we got in this debate, what's better stocks or real estate, right? Because I was even trading stocks and options and doing stuff.
And he's like, Chris, stop. How many of your clients are actually financially free where they don't worry about money? I'm like, well, don't worry about money.
Well, I'm like, all my clients worry about running out of money at some point. So I would say none.
And he said, awesome. Way to go.
Um, well, how about this, Chris? How How many of you guys as financial advisors and this is the key question how many of you guys as financial advisors can actually retire off of these investments not off the commissions you're earning but doing these investments and as i was really honest with myself and there's over a hundred people in my office i said i don't know there's guys been working here since the late 1970s. I would probably say none, none of them.
Meaning they actually didn't do the advice that they were given. They were not investing.
It just wasn't enough, right? Because the mutual funds really don't return a high enough return to make anything. So all these financial advisors, there were really more relying upon the business.
And this is the key thing. If there's anything a financial advisor does right, it's they have a business.
That is the best investment that financial advisor has. Unfortunately, if you're the entrepreneur listening to financial advisors, the best business you would have or best investment would be to invest in their businesses, right? Because they get paid based on your money sitting there, assets under management, as they call it, right? And they get paid whether you make money or not.
They get paid a percentage or commission of that or a fee based, you know, something like that. But even if you don't make money, they still get paid.
They are the one person that gets paid, even if you don't. That to me, I mean, any other business for that matter is crap.
And even if you look at like, if you look at the statistics, right? For example, Fidelity, people talk about 401ks. If you're a business owner and you're putting money in a 401k and paying your own match, that's crap.
Because the truth is 401ks suck, okay? They're horrible. Not to mention you're locking your money up in prison and you'd be much better putting your money in your own business versus throwing it in somebody else's companies that, again, you're going to make lackluster performance.
But they found out, you know, Fidelity, who's the largest 401k provider in the U.S. here,

Fidelity has 45 million people with 401ks and IRAs.

Guess how many have a million dollars or more?

You said 810,000.

I'm guessing 4,000.

It's definitely more than 4,000.

That's the good news.

But out of 45 million, you know, still, it's only 810,000. That's like 1.5%.

Thank you. guessing 4,000.
It's definitely more than 4,000. That's the good news.
But out of 45 million, you know, still it's only 810,000. That's like one and a half percent.
And of those, there was a different study done by Transamerica that's asked, hey, what's your viewpoint on retirement? 35% of those polled that had over a million dollars said they think it'll quote, take a miracle be able to retire a miracle that is think about it this is insanity because i this is something that it's it's funny because i you know me i'm a real estate guy this is what i do now i also believe in what you do to the point where i do what you do you know i don't sell it but um because i think more financially than I think like anything else. And it's just a shame to hear the stats that you've been quoting.
I'm just like, man, I'm so happy you're here to shine some light on this because I think the vast majority of entrepreneurs are uneducated on how money really works and uneducated on what they should be doing when they're making money. Right.
A lot of these listeners, a lot of these viewers on YouTube and Instagram, they're making money now. Like shit's going.
Right. And so this kind of goes back to your retirement stories.
But what the hell do they do when they're actually making some money? Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications.
Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place.
Sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com slash podcast. Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror.
Through HERS, you can get dermatologists-trusted, clinically-proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer. Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, hers has you covered.
Getting started is simple. Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you.
The best part? Everything is 100% online. If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door.
No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches. Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month.
Start your initial free online visit today at Forhers.com slash talk. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.
Tontondent products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required.
Price marries both on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information.
Did you know that you can unlock retirement account

and old 401ks and invest them into whatever you want? Today's episode is brought to you by the

Retirement Innovators at Horizon Trust Company. If you're looking to break free from the limitations

of traditional retirement plans and dive into a world of endless investment possibilities, Horizon Trust is your key to unlocking financial freedom. With a self-directed IRA from Horizon Trust, you're not just saving for retirement, you're actively shaping it.
Whether you're passionate about real estate, intrigued by the potential of cryptocurrency,

or interested in diversifying with precious metals, Horizon Trust empowers you to invest in what you know and love. Founded by industry titan Greg Herlean, Horizon Trust has over $1 billion in assets.
Horizon Trust brings unparalleled expertise to retirement strategy. Their commitment to excellence is why they are a five-star rated self-directed IRA custodian trusted by savvy investors nationwide.
Experience the future of retirement planning with Horizon Trust's cutting-edge account portal. From detailed investment reporting to real-time alerts and dedicated client support, they provide all the tools you need to invest with confidence and speed.
Join the community of forward-thinking investors who have made Horizon Trust America's top choice for self-directed custodianship. Schedule a consultation with the IRA specialist today by visiting horizontrust.com forward slash Justin and discover how to amplify your retirement savings with the power of alternative investments.
Don't just plan for retirement, pave the way to a wealthy future with Horizon Trust. That's, and that's what I started to learn too, because, you know, like anything in business, right? Like you want to focus on profit, right? Profit is the key, like the lifeblood, not just your business, but that's what really creates freedom in business too.
I've found out that really, if you look at the Forbes 500 list, I like to see proof, right? Just like with fidelity, when you factor in the people that don't think they'll take a miracle to be able to retire comparatively, that's like 1% success rate. So imagine like you go to your, your business site, you have a Google review on there, and there's 99 one-star reviews, but you happen to get that one five-star review.
Would you ever want to go to that place? Would you ever go to that restaurant? If it has one five-star review from their mom, the other ones are 99 one-star reviews saying this place sucks. That's basically what financial advising is.
And so you've got to realize that just because financial advisors seem smarter, they talk the talk. Right.
And, and I'll tell you, I was trained as a financial advisor. They would tell us, Hey, you know what, just get them to trust you.
In fact, sometimes you can use and you can, you can blow their minds away to the point where they'll say, you know what, it sounds like, you know what you're doing. I'll just turn my money over to you.
When has that ever worked in business? When have you turned money over to an employee and said, you know what, you just take, take it all. I don't need any accountability.
And a financial advisor is an employee for you. I mean, they're, they're contracted by you.
You can fire them, but it's amazing that we've been so brainwashed by financial companies and advisors and gurus out there that tell you, Oh no, these are like, these guys are like God for you,

right? Like you got to listen to them and you, you better kiss up to them. I can't tell you how many business owners I've talked to.
They're like, yeah, but if I, if I start investing in like real estate, which is what I now recommend a lot of people do instead, you know, invest your business first and foremost, then secondly, real estate. Well, if I do that, like, what's my financial advisor going to say? Who gives a crap? You hire them.
They're your dang employee. You tell them what to do, not the other way around.
And it's like, even if they ask you why, just tell them because I want to. And they can't question that.
They got to honor your word because they work for you. Even though they make it seem like they're the authority, you got to listen to them.
You don't have to do jack squat what they teach you because the truth is you're probably more successful than they are anyways. Man, dude, I would love, I would love to have some financial planners like audit their own P&L.
Like I would love to have a expose honestly, transparently. Like one of the things that, you know, in my world of real estate investing, you know, I always say like, if you're going to hire a mentor or coach, like audit what they're actually doing, like, do they have rentals? Are they flipping anything currently, if they're

going to teach you how to flip? Do they have they wholesaled anything in the last 30 days, like

audit them. And the same is true in financial industries, right? You know, the things that I

do with my money, almost, if I'm being honest, almost 100% of the time, because I'm trying to think, anything I'm doing with my money is typically because someone like you, a friend says, here's what I'm doing here, literally the results, here is the P&L, here is the thing, the track record, this is my account. And say, Oh, bro, I'm in, right? Whatever that is.
It's not because you are an advisor. It's because I'm looking at the actual results of what you were telling me.
Literally friends. I have a buddy who has no financial license, no nothing.
He said, look at what I've done in a sector of business. Justin, you got to get in showing me results.
So I love what you're saying. I would love to see financial advisors show what they've done.
And you're right. I bet they're living on their commissions and they tinker at best.
Yeah. That's the thing is that successful financial advisors are good salespeople.
They're really just salespeople in suits, right? And I'm not saying that they're bad people because there's a lot of good hearted guys. In fact, I was just a natural.
They just chose that profession. People can be good people.
They just chose a profession that you're basically saying you got to audit that. I get it.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Because it's not about them, even though they're good people, there's lots of good people in the world, but it's about, do they get you results? And, and that's what drove me out of the business. That's why in 2006, I said, I can't make this work anymore.
Especially as I started listening to real estate investors and such. Right.
I'm like, I realized that if you look at the Forbes 500 list, all the people, the one thing they have in common, they're business owners, aren't they? The richest people in the world are business owners they're not people that said man like they made the you know the cover of forze magazine because they saved in their 401k diligently over the last 50 years now they're the richest person in a wheelchair in a nursing home you know that's that never happens you know because the truth is you can never save your way to wealth and uh and i learned this firsthand as a financial advisor even before i left i remember um i i was remember I was talking with my brother-in-law. Now my brother-in-law, his dad became a self-made millionaire.
The guy was homeless at age 16. He went and got his own Chrysler dealership at age 19, millionaire by age 21.
This is in the 1960s, right? I mean, this is no small feat. A millionaire in 1960 is a heck of a lot harder than being a millionaire now now you're middle class you're a millionaire right no doubt well he uh so this family became self-made millionaires lots of money i figured as a financial advisor if i get in with my brother-in-law i get in with the rest of the family i'm set for life yeah and so i prepared like for days and getting the perfect presentation, got my suit pressed,

got, you know, got everything all queued up, brought even a guy from my office to back me up.

Cause you know, mouth of two or three witnesses shall ever be established, that kind of thing.

Right.

So I go and I, and I present to my brother-in-law and he says, all right, Chris, let me get this

straight.

If I give you 10 grand just to play with today, uh, you're telling me you can give me 12%,

right?

And I was like, well, there's no guarantees. And the truth is, by the, the market's never averaged 12% long term.
It's more like eight. So I said, well, there's no guarantees.
He's like, okay, Chris, even if you do give me 12%, that, that 10,000 made me 1200 bucks in a year. But Chris, I can take that same 10 grand and cause they're in the automotive industry, like with a car, you know, the own dealerships and stuff.
He's like, I can save that same 10 grand.

I can go buy a big rig,

turn around, flip it a couple months later

and make 20 grand of profit.

So 1,200 in a year, maybe,

versus 20 grand profit in a couple months.

Why would I invest my money with you?

And of course I said the same thing

that I bet you guys have heard before too,

which is you should be diversified.

You shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket because I mean, business is risky. Ironically, I had a business, right? But I'm like, nah, you should put your money in business because I don't make a commission off of it.
That's what I was really saying. And, and that's the problem right there.
Your number one investment should be your business, but I will tell you this, I shouldn't stop there because what I learned in 2006 was it drove me nuts that there was guys able to be in their twenties and thirties and they'd have to keep working because you can be a business owner, but you can get caught in your own rat race, right? You can, you can make millions and millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars. But if that business were to shut down today, the question is, would you be okay? You know, if we had another crappy 2020 where you're non-essential, all that kind of crap, right? We get that again, what's going to happen? And so that's what I learned in 2006.
And so I started to meet with these guys who are real estate investors and a lot of them were flippers and stuff. But I realized, wait, I can lend my money out to people.
So remember, I'm a financial advisor thinking you got to squirrel away your money for decades and then you'll live on less than the interest. You're only told to live on 3% of the interest.
So even if you're lucky enough to save a million bucks in a mutual fund,

you're told to only pull out 30,000 a year.

That's like poverty line as a millionaire.

You're a broke millionaire.

Yeah, that's where I go.

Who the hell teaches that?

Like, I don't even understand that math.

But anyways, go ahead.

Yeah, well, it's because they run the numbers

and they're like, well, if the markets go up or down,

because if you pull out money when the market goes down,

it's like a double whammy against you.

You can lose money fast.

That's why Dave Ramsey gets ripped on so much. he got ripped on social media because he was telling people you should be able to pull out eight percent a year because if you make 12 percent in the market you can pull out eight percent you'll be fine you'll never run out of money well the sad thing is on my podcast just a just a little while ago i actually showed what happens if the market goes down just once every three years and guess what? You ran out of money in about 15 years.
So basically the average returns of the market pulling out 8%. So that's, so that's where I realized it's about the cashflow, the passive income.
And so when I realized I could take my money, lend it out to even to investors, I don't even have to be the active investor. Cause one mistake that I see some people making the business world is that they see people on social media, Instagram, TikTok, and they're like, hey, 200 bucks, I made $5 million from flipping or wholesaling or whatever it might be.
And that's cool. It's an awesome thing, but it's a business, right? So if you're a business owner, you don't have systems in a place.
You go try to start a new business, you might watch that business, which is your economic cash cow fail. So you can do that, but just understand you got now two businesses competing for your time.
If you do passive investing, which is what I started getting into more, eventually after I stopped doing flipping, is that I could lend my money out, for example, and make maybe 1% a month. Well, that means if I have that same million bucks, instead of pulling out 30,000 a year, I'm pulling out 120,000 a year, right? I'm getting a lot more cash with less money.
And when I realized that, when I realized, oh, it's not about just about the returns, it's about what income could really come my way. What kind of income can I get? That's when it rocked my world.
Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway.
As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding, and more.
These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety.

Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time.

Help keep your teen safe.

Sign up for Greenlight Infinity at greenlight.com slash podcast.

Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip,

or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror. Through HERS, you can get dermatologists-trusted, clinically proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer.
Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered. Getting started is simple.
Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you. The best part? Everything is 100% online.
If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door. No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches.
Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month. Start your initial free online visit today at Forhers.com slash talk.
That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk. Tone-tounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness or quality.
Prescription required. Price marries both on product and subscription plan.
See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Yeah.
Well, and so what was the pivot, you know, when, you know, obviously you're here now with a business. This is why we have you on the podcast.
What brought you back into the space of entrepreneurship, business owner? Um, you know, you've retired twice, uh, you're no longer retired. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Uh, what do you, what are you doing actively? Like what brought you back in? Yeah. So, so 2006, I got the point where I had enough passive income, I could quit.
Right. Um, and I was just like, what do I do with my time? Cause I was 20 years, 28 years old at the time.
I'm like, what do I do? Cause none of my friends can hang out with me in the middle of the day. Cause they're all working too.
That's right. And, uh, I, I almost started like a, you know, a dinner dance business.
I even opened up, almost opened up a ballroom dance studio. One of the weird facts about me, I used to be one of the nation's top amateur ballroom dancers.
Wow. i was going to do that but it didn't feel right i remember almost closing on a building and and at the closing table i said you guys are going to hate me but i feel like i need to back out of this deal and then just a few months later because everybody wanted to know how i did it right a few months later some partners and i got together we decided to create a company teach people, let's teach them how to get out of the rat race.
So 2007, I came out of retirement, focus all on the mission. I mentioned like why I had to retire twice.
Notice I came out of retirement in 2007. And at the same time, I had some real estate happening as well, but I also cut off a lot of my streams of income to do that business.
I dropped them because one of the partners said, focus all in is our mission, our passion, right? Which is stupid. Why would I cut off my streams of income if I'm teaching people how to create passive income? I don't know what thinking at the time, but- You were young.
How old were you? What's that? How old were you? That was, I was, let's see, I was 30 at that point. Yeah.
Or 29 turning 30. Yeah.
Okay. Young enough that you haven't gone through what you just now described, right? Those are all lessons that you can only connect those dots looking back.
At the time, you're like, yeah, all in, let's go burn your boats. But then looking back, you can say, you know, 14 years later, you're like, or whatever, 16 years, you're like, wait a minute.
That's not the idea. The idea is have multiple streams of income.
What was I doing? You know, those lessons and you know and i mean it all worked out i mean i did go from millionaire to upside down millionaire through the recession you know i had to dig out of a million dollar plus debt hole um i was actually in the place where i had no savings left no credit left my credit score looked like an sat score if you just got your name right so it was like in the high 400s you know it was it was horrible um but like you said like it's those lessons you learn right i learned about liquidity as a business owner you've got to have more liquidity than you probably think you need to have on hand like you've got to have cash sitting there i learned also have multiple streams of income not just one source of income for sure um you know even in the real estate game like i i wasn't focused so much on cash flow anymore because i had so much cash coming in i was getting sloppy and lazy you know i was i was like you know what it's okay if this rental doesn't you know positive cash flow anymore because all the appreciation i mean the market just goes up right like that kind of crap and you know so i got caught with my pants down pretty badly and oh by the way the new business we started was focused on teaching flippers how to create passive income.

So in 2007, all of a sudden, flipping just stopped like a rock.

I mean, it came to a screeching halt.

I mean, our business was going broke.

I was going broke personally.

It was just like the perfect storm in the crappy George Clooney movie way, right?

That's what was happening.

But you're right.

I mean, so here's what happens. Just like everything, you kind of notice a theme on my life as i like to have integrity i i couldn't teach people how to get out of the rat race once i was back in it and so i stopped teaching that in 2008 and then i started teaching people actually how to get resourceful how to find money because the one thing i always heard business owners say they're like yeah but chris it sounds awesome what you're teaching, but I can't even find the money.
In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, your situation is better than mine. I wouldn't say that verbally because I don't want to scare them off, but I would just tell them like, well, listen, if I can help you find the money, will you pay me? They said, well, yeah.
And so I started like this, like very rudimentary, but eventually started creating a whole system of how do you find and free up cash flow even especially if you're a business owner right started doing that and uh we were almost bankrupt in 2009 and then by 2010 we pulled it out we were making over five million a year um just because that started to take fire especially with like chiropractors and dentists you know some of those niche markets and the practice was essentially what so if you're talking to a dentist what are are you showing them? What are you telling them to do? Yeah, at that time, I've now added more stuff to it. But at that time, it was just what I was doing, which was how we find cash, right? So start tracking your money, doing things like that.
What are creative ways to pay off debt? That's not just like the, you know, the Dave Ramsey method, like ways are based on rate of return versus just, you know, in in fact i've seen other guys teach it out there called the cash flow index that's something i created in 2008 when i was going broke myself you know so uh the cash flow index is like a way to pay off debt faster than just going off of interest rates right um i started teaching them like ways saves on taxes we had the cpas we partnered up with that we'd connect them to and attorneys and things like that. And we, a lot of times free up like tens of thousands of dollars a year, just in taxes alone, you know? So just all these things to kind of help improve the cashflow situation.
I mean, one business owner, I remember he was 62 years old and he had a half million sitting in his crappy IRA, right? Like just sitting there and he didn't know what to do with it. And at that time I was a teacher about investing.
Now I talk about how you can actually use that money to go, you know, do like real estate investing, but passively. Right.
But at the time I wasn't doing that. And so I remember looking at this whole situation, his cashflow money coming in and what was going out.
And I said, Hey, listen, if we refinance your mortgage and then even do, and then to use some of this money from your IRA to not just help you refinance because of the values down. So you had to put a little extra equity in.
But then also pay off these specific loans while leaving these other ones alone. If we do that, we can use $100,000 of your IRA money to free up $4,200 a month or $50,000 a year.
He's like, but Chris, how do I retire? Listen, what's the whole point of retirement, right? You want income, right? Yeah. This gets you freeing up 4,200 a month, like it's income.
Right. How do I retire? I'm like, oh my gosh, like 50,000 a year from 100 grand.
That's a 50% rate of return on your money. Does that make sense? No.
Finally, it's his wife. By the way, it's almost always the wives that like say, this is common sense.
you talking about this is no brainer because there was a one-time hundred grand investment and for in perpetuity he was going to be making forty two hundred dollars a month exactly it didn't matter how many different ways i described it he was like i don't get it because he was just so locked in by that brainwashing of financial advisors that he could not touch that money it was only meant to stay there forever and that was the thing that kept him in bondage and by the way his business for three years in a row was slowly becoming less profitable and he was burning out he was hating his business at that point even though he had been very profitable before he started seeing a downward trend so we did that a month later he freed up exactly 4 200 bucks a month just said. Well, guess what happened? And this is the thing I love about when you improve cash flow, even outside of your business, it creates this other ripple effect too.
Because what ended up happening is that he started to relax. He wasn't as uptight about money anymore.
So naturally, when he started meeting with patients, when they're coming in, potential new patients, he wasn't desperate for money. He't like please pay me he was like hey here's what i offer so he relaxed and naturally his closing ratios went up yeah so he started making in just a few months two to three thousand dollars more a month in revenue just because he relaxed so in total that hundred thousand you know when you think about it most financial advisors are like man if you make 10%, you're doing amazing, right? $10,000 off that $100,000.
But instead, like you said, into perpetuity, he's making over like $75,000 a year, $75,000 to $80,000 a year from that $100,000 decision that he made. And that's the one thing his wife said.
She's like, listen, honey, it's only $100,000. You still have $400,000 you can invest, you know, and do other stuff with.
Right. And so that's not even investing the money, right? Which 400 grand, you can easily make a 10% return off that in a passive investing world and make another 40,000 a year.
So in total, right, he could easily make, you know, over a hundred thousand a year extra cashflow just from the little bit of money that he had there. Well, let's even just talk about, I think there's plenty of people watching this, listening to this credit cards, credit cards, you know, 19%, 24%, whatever, you know? Yeah.
And you have 10 grand, a hundred grand, name the number. Let's keep it round figures to make it easy.
Let's say you have a hundred grand worth of credit card debt as a business owner, and you have a way to effectively pay that off. Let's just say you sell some assets, you sell some retirement, you know, stocks, crypto, something, right? But then you start to buy back or pay yourself or replace it at the same rate of your credit card.
That is where you start to really see the exponential component of compounding.

I think a lot of people get short-sighted with like, I don't want to use, to your point, this guy didn't want to use his 100 grand. He didn't see it.
But if someone has 100 grand in credit card debt and they could take a HELOC at 9% or they could, let's just say, sell some assets that are just, they've done well over time. You didn't really intend on selling.
Well, there's always going to be dip in markets. So pay that off and buy back in at a percentage that is way better than your credit cards.
Talk a little bit about that. I mean, I would assume you would be an advocate for people doing things like that.
Yeah, it always comes back to the cash flow, right? That's the big thing. Cash flow is what creates freedom.
and it's really dependent upon you as a steward. You know, I teach people there's spenders and there's savers, but the one thing they have in common is they're both in scarcity because spenders, you know, they're always just, they have to always hunt and kill whatever they want to eat.
Right. But savers, that's the more deceptive one because everybody honors them, right? Especially the gurus out there like, Oh, cut you know and you know live on rice and beans so that's 50,000 years right you know they tell you all that crap by the way isn't it ironic that Dave Ramsey who created all of his wealth in business and real estate tells you to buy mutual funds I mean what a crock of crap right you know so anyways a little side rant there we can talk about Dave Ramsey another time but uh anyways but you're right.
It's really about you as a steward. A steward is saying, what's the best and highest use of this money in my life right now? That's what a steward does.
They can stay in that abundant mindset, not in the scarcity like savers or like spenders. Because savers can never save enough.
They never pay off their debt fast enough. It's never enough for them.
Just like that guy that got caught with a half million. He couldn't get out of that saver scarcity mentality.
He had to move into a steward investor type of mentality, which is to your point, right? That way you're thinking. And so sometimes paying off the credit card can be an awesome rate of return.
You know, it could be great, but there's other times that keeping that credit card balance might be okay. I'll give you an example.
This popped in my head here, but I had one client that he was down. He had no money, no cash, right? Nothing in checking, nothing in savings.
He was depleted. His business was struggling.
He had, all he had left was $1,000 on his credit card. That was it.
He had already used up some of it. There was $1,000 between his limit and where he was.
And I said, all right, here's the deal. You can either decrease expenses, which we're already working on.
And you can only decrease them so far. You still have to spend money, right? It's like, we've got to increase income.
I said, what's one new patient worth in your office? He's like, it makes me usually between 2,500 and 3,000 a year. I was like, perfect.
I said, what if you took the thousand dollars of your credit card and you went and did like a, it was right near Christmas time. Like what if you did like a little Christmas party, invited all your patients, tell, encourage them to bring other people from the community, maybe even bring like massage therapists and other people in too, where they can advertise their services and invite their people to come in and you can advertise your services.
Like what if you even, what if you use that thousand bucks? Cause obviously if you get one new patient, you make two and a half times that thousand bucks. That's a 250% return.
He's like, I guess I could, but I'm just so scared. That's all I have.
I'm like, do it. Let's try it.
He did it. He got five new patients.
So it wasn't like he even had 50 new patients, but five that's worth to him. 12,500 bucks from a thousand dollar investment.
That's awesome. Right.
There's no bigger. I tell people the best best investment, in my opinion, if you have to make one investment, it's investing in yourself, right? Invest in growing your business to your point, a little holiday party, a thousand dollars, but he invested in himself.
Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway.
As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infiniti's driving... We'll be right back.
time. Help keep your teen safe.
Sign up for Greenlight Infinity at greenlight.com slash podcast. Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror.
Through HERS, you can get dermatologist-trusted, clinically proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer. Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered.
Getting started is simple. Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you.
The best part? Everything is 100% online. If prescribed, your treatment ships right to your door.
No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches. Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month.
Start your initial free online visit today at Forhers.com slash talk. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.
Tontounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required.
Price marries both on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information.
Showed a good time. Talked to a couple of people, shook some hands, and it brought them five people.
I mean, it's marketing one-on-one, right? Get exposure. And as long as the ROI, the ROAS, right? Because I would say that's marketing.
If he has a three or five X ROAS like that, I mean, that's insane. He had a way higher then you rinse and repeat he should be throwing monthly cocktail parties right for a thousand dollars a month to go get five more people every single month exactly heck even if it's quarterly if he didn't want to like you know burn himself out fine whatever but yeah you're right exactly like that right there for him was like the best and highest use of that money in that moment right now i've had I've had people where they've gotten insanely profitable in their business.
They're making lots of money. And now they're saying, okay, I can only invest so much money in my business.
I'm getting this return, you know, this diminished return if I keep pumping more money in, right? So, if I want to maximize my ROI on my business, I can't throw all my money back in. By the way, you should never do that, especially when you're a mature business.
Early on, fine. But when when you mature as a business, you need to take some profits home, right? Because that's where I've learned, especially with 2020 and everything else happening.
That's where having those multiple streams of passive income help. That's where you want to have diversification of income streams coming in.
So if you get shut down, you're okay. By the way, I can tell you this as a business owner, this has been true in my life because eventually I did dig out of that million dollar debt hole.
It wasn't easy. I had to like scrimp and save and work hard to do it.
But by the end of 2016, I retired. I was able to retire again the second time.
And I took two months off, went to California, got bored out of my mind again. And I came back because the thing is I just can't retire, right? I can't.
And maybe it's a spiritual thing for me too, because I mean, not just that you get bored,

but I could go find a hobby or something. But I really believe that, you know, God's blessed us with, with, with a lot of gifts.

Right.

And if I've been blessed with this kind of experience where I was able to get out of

the rat race twice, especially after overcoming a million dollar debt hole, maybe I have something

to offer the world.

Right.

And I believe they have that ripple effect to give people, hence the name of their company, Money Ripples. And, uh, and that's where I said, you know what, what am I doing with my life? How am I being a wise steward of not just my money, but even my time and my talents to give back to people and use those God-given talents.
And that's kind of why I kept doing the podcast. I have had my podcast now for 10 years for that very reason.
It's like, I love teaching giving back and I feel like it's almost like a duty that I have and what it was so what's the podcast everyone can go everyone right now needs to go subscribe to this podcast what is it yeah we did years of marketing and we come up with the name money ripples podcast after our company name oh money ripples podcast on apple on all the platforms make sure you're following chris miles for sure i tend to agree my friend is you have a gift you have a financial mindset that a lot of people don't they may be great dentists but they don't know what the hell to do with their money they may be great lawyers but they don't know what the hell to do with their money and you know people like you there need to be good people with the right, you know, um, the right intention, right. Not just worrying about a commission on a sale and to really help these people, uh, you know, to be able to help with their financial literacy to your point, whether it's real estate, whether it's lending, whether it's, uh, you know, insurance policy, there's just so many ways that you don't need to have your typical financial advisor, stocks and bonds, mutual fund type of investment.
You really don't. Yeah.
There's so much of a bigger world out there and a better world with their... And like I said, coming back to that point, the Forbes 500, right? They're all business owners.
But if you look at even millionaires, what they have in common, a lot of them do have businesses, but even the ones that don't, they've got real assets. They got things like real estate.
That's a part of their portfolio. Even if they don't know what they're doing, even accidentally they create wealth, right? I mean, what better place to learn how to get your money to work harder for you.
So you have to work so freaking hard for it because you never, ever want to get caught in the entrepreneur rat race where you make millions dollars and everybody thinks your your life is amazing but you know in the back of your brain you're like if this were all to shut down today i'd be just as broke as everybody else right like i would be in my own rat race i still am and that's why i think every entrepreneur needs passive income you need to have that that place not just for freedom not just for options but it gets you a place of power and when you from a place of power, you know you don't need that one customer, that one client. Just like me and my business, Money Ripples, my whole team knows I can shut it down anytime because I don't need it.
But because I'm on a mission, they feel a little bit more certain, right? But that power, knowing that I don't need the money, that comes across. And I'll tell you, I've seen so many people when they get to that place, their business explodes because they don't need the money.
You know, it's, it's that weird, weird thing is that when you're not that it's indifference, when you're not desperate, you can actually make a real change, right? You're doing it for the right reasons. Yeah.
You don't have that business breath as I call it, right. You know, where you're just reeking, you know, you're the person that passes out the cards at all those, you know, networking chamber of commerce events and you're cutting people up, giving paper cuts because you want those, those cards passed out.
And in fact, you're so desperate, you can give them a stack of cards, like here, handing them out to somebody else. Like, please, I need business.
No, that's a crappy way to live. Like you come from a place of power and confidence, you'll get more business.
There's no doubt. There's no doubt.
Everyone, this man knows what he's talking about. I want everyone to be listening to Money Ripples.
Follow Chris Miles. Where else can we point everyone to just get in your world and understand more of how you think financially, why things make sense? Where can we point everybody? Yeah.
Like you said, the Money Ripples podcast is great, but anything Money Ripples, at Money Ripples on social media, moneyripples.com, right ways to learn. What would be, final question, what would be your top three investment strategies for someone who's running a high performing, high revenue, high income earner? What would be your top three that you would, obviously you're not doing an audit of everyone's financials, but just a generic answer of like, hey, if someone's making multiple seven figures, they have high income, here's three great, you know, investment strategies.
Yeah, I would say this again, you know, no investment recommendations and all that kind of stuff. But if I were to say in general categories, one is, like I said, owning real estate doesn't have to be in your backyard.
I, I like turnkey rentals where somebody else manages the property for me. So it doesn't distract me from my own passions and, and, and time that I have in my business.
Uh, two is, uh, you know, I would, I would definitely look at something like hard asset, other hard assets, like maybe gold, silver. I even have ownership in like oil, oil wells and things like that.
So commodities, right? So you got real estate,

you got commodities

and you can actually have investments

in actual like production of oil well,

like type of businesses and whatnot.

And then the third thing is,

is having a cash,

having that war chest, right?

Like having that cash available.

And that's where I use,

it's not an investment,

but it's a saving strategy,

which is called infinite banking

or as we call it max ROI,

infinite banking,

so that we cut the cost as low as you can go to get the higher returns on your

money.

Love that. Everyone, make sure you go to moneyripples.com, Money Ripples Podcast.
My friend Chris Miles is here to serve you guys. That is the end of our podcast.
We will see you on the next Entrepreneur DNA. Peace.
Stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits.
See if they're using their phone, speeding, and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety.
Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe.
Sign up for Greenlight Infinity at greenlight.com slash podcast. Six months from now, you could be running a 5K, booking that dream trip, or seeing thicker, fuller hair every time you look in the mirror.

Through HERS, you can get dermatologist-trusted, clinically-proven prescriptions with ingredients that go beyond what over-the-counter products offer.

Whether you prefer oral or topical treatments, HERS has you covered.

Getting started is simple.

Just fill out an intake form online, and a licensed provider will recommend a customized plan just for you. The best part? Everything is 100% online.
If prescribed, your treatment

ships right to your door. No pharmacy trips, no waiting rooms, and no insurance headaches.

Plus, treatments start at just $35 a month. Start your initial free online visit today

at Forhers.com slash talk. That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash talk.
Compounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required.
Price marries both on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information.
If your job at a healthcare facility includes disinfecting against viruses, you know prevention is the best medicine.

And maintaining healthy spaces starts with a healthy cleaning routine.

Grainger's world-class supply chain helps ensure you have the quality products you need

when you need them.

From disinfectants and cleaning supplies to personal protective equipment,

so you can help deliver a clean bill of health.

Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com,

or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.