How Toxic Masculinity Still Holds Men Back (Featuring Lisandra Vasquez)

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Find Out Podcast, episode nine.

Uh, and for the first time, we've added somebody.

We have a guest today, guys.

After eight uh episodes of us all talking at each other incessantly, uh, I think we're getting a little tired of each other's voices, so we needed to add somebody.

And we even added a woman this time.

So, everybody, I want to introduce comedian and TikTok star Lysandra Vasquez.

Welcome to Find Out Podcast.

Hi.

Thank you so much for having me.

The TikTok star thing makes me cringe, but yes.

Yeah.

I do be online.

That's one thing that I do.

But hi, everybody.

I'm Lysandra.

I am an Atlanta-based comedian.

I'm from Puerto Rico.

I've been,

you know, I've been a comedian for a long time and a performer.

I've also, like any other artist, I've done all the other jobs.

So I used to, well, I think,

and I started doing TikTok more aggressively and political satire around the election.

And that's kind of what brought me to this path and to hear

this conversation with you guys.

And the main focus right now is a series that I do daily.

Today was my 53rd day in a row of doing

morning daily press briefings dressed as the press secretary Caroline Mubbet.

How have you, and I'm curious, how has your mental health been putting on the MAGA hat every day and pretending to be Caroline Lovett 53 straight days?

My best friend was like, you're going to need a very specific kind of therapy after this.

And I have like in my guest room now, I have like a,

I have like an extra clothing rack with Republican woman clothes.

It's Republican drag.

It's my white woman drag that I put on every day.

Yeah, I watch her for her mannerisms and her awful behavior, which is comical, but it's really more of a

vessel

to deliver the satire of the news of the day, which is always,

it's never dull.

So after you're done with a bit, how do you like decompress?

What, like, do you have to switch your mentality to get out of Carolyn

Lemmit, the character?

No, not really, because it's just, it's, because also it's so silly.

I put in a lot lot of like home alone.

I put in so many silly references in there that it is not, it's, I'm not delving into the her darkness so much as more of the absurdity.

So I don't think that I have to like really shake it off.

As soon as I post it all, I just go for, go take my dog to the park.

And then I try to not consume any more news for like at least an hour.

And then I'm like back on.

Well, and part of the reason that we wanted to have you on is that

you also sort of have seen similar growth to all of us as far as like growing on TikTok through political content.

And you and Chris actually were at the same conference this week.

And I'd love for you guys to talk about like what was going on there.

Cause like, and to step back just for a second, after Kamala lost in November, there has been a lot of talk about Democrats needing to do more podcasts and interact with more influencers.

And so we are on a podcast.

with a bunch of influencers even

the worst word you go you're the biggest influencer out of all of us

i hate that word yep yep you have like almost 700 000 followers you my friend are an influencer i hate that word

but anyways so uh what what happened to dc this week what did you guys do what did you talk about and why should the audience be excited about the conversations you guys had Yeah, so I got an email just like 250 other folks that said, hey, do you want to come to DC?

And

not putting a second thought into whether I'm going to be catfished into getting murdered, I replied yes.

So did I meet the 250 most like dedicated folks or those who are most willing to walk into a basement with no idea who's organizing a conference?

You decide.

But I got to say, it was the coolest thing I've done in a very long time.

Yeah, like Chris said, it was, I didn't know what to expect.

It was, like you said, our FYP crawled out of our phone and everyone that I met was better than they are online.

And I think like, like Chris was saying, like, I think sometimes on the left or on the more progressive side, we can feel like a little bit alone.

But us hanging out together, it was nice to be able to actually genuinely have conversation and meet people from all different walks of life and that make all different types of content and then.

be encouraged to continue to do the work that we're doing in our own unique way instead of trying to force us to be like them.

Something we've been talking about just in our podcast group and with the sort of the other like, I don't know, insiders is this idea that

the

inside out way of running the Democratic Party just failed.

It just failed us miserably in 2024.

And really, it's been failing us.

We needed someone like Barack Obama to like lift us out of that.

And he was a generational leader.

But other than that, I mean, you look back to like Howard Dean and the strategist-led

approach to running a nationwide party that is incredibly diverse has just never gotten the job done.

And we've recognized that coming out of the election that we have to have more authenticity.

We have to, you know, I hate the type, the term cancel culture, but like these reasons that we find to snipe each other and come at each other internally and just take down the movement before it even gets off off the ground we have to deal with this stuff and we have to do a better job of supporting each other even when we're kind of imperfect and messy and make mistakes but it it sounds like maybe the the system um is starting to to hear that message did you guys hear that at the from this from the big speakers i mean i know there are people like elizabeth warren and pete butige there right along with a number of other people so there were some panels Did you hear that same kind of a message, like this sort of awakening, this understanding that we need new voices and a new approach, especially in the media space?

Yeah, I think one of the main messages, Chris can speak to this, is that one of the main messages was like that everyone should be using their voice and kind of even start to like micro-dose what they their causes and what they believe in.

I thought it was really promising to have

like the Midas Touch guy,

Adam Mokler, and he was there

22,

so

refreshing his take on everything and his his level of patience to be able to talk with Republicans in a non-condescending way.

And it's really promising.

So I thought it was really great

to actually get out of the way because I think sometimes what the Democrats have tried to do is just to, like you said, like manage it and strategize it.

And it never works for us because it's like a Pelosi string pulling thing.

And like they just have to listen to what the, what we actually want.

Yeah, and I think it was on our last episode, we were talking about how charlie kirk has like built this pipeline like he's doing these big events on college campuses and he's getting primarily white young men but not exclusively uh getting them into cultural events basically parties that then starts dripping in the policy and

you know we don't really have anything like that on the left and trending up was was not that but what i saw come out of it that i think is most valuable is the opportunity for people to connect and build real relationships off of the phone.

Like there is in the creator space, no real kind of like mentorship.

You know, I have been lucky.

I only started using TikTok in September.

I'm brand new to this stuff.

But I had a guy with a big account, quarter million followers or something like that, just started tagging me and like lifting me up.

and helping me get exposure.

And, you know, as one of the newest creators at this conference, conference, I felt that that kind of generosity of people looking to help others who are new, who are smaller creators rise up.

Yeah, I think the exciting thing is as somebody who's worked on presidential campaigns and political campaigns in the past is that

the old way of doing things doesn't work anymore.

Spending one and a half million billion dollars on advertising, you could spend $10 billion.

It wouldn't matter.

And what's exciting about these conferences is that all of these people are acting as basically mini media companies themselves to their audiences and giving Democrats access to people that we haven't been able to reach in years, if ever.

And so for folks that don't really understand the influencer space, content creator space, this is a big deal.

And the right has been doing this for 20 years and we've really just been doing it for six months.

And I think that's really exciting for what you guys have been telling us about this is like this is just the tip of the iceberg.

And there is going to be, you know, probably all are tired of me saying this, but there we are building a sort of ecosystem in which we can communicate with people in ways we never have before.

And this is the type of stuff we need to bring more people back to the Democratic Party, or at least to the liberal side, and end this horrible nightmare that we've got in the White House right now.

What's really amazing to me is, and kind of ironic, is,

you know, know it's great like everybody loves Beyonce everybody loves Taylor Swift right like but that's kind of what the Democrats we started to do is look to these polished celebrities to carry our message on Oprah like Oprah has been everywhere for 15 years and she I remember when she first broke her silence and was and I think endorsed Obama was the first time she'd ever done anything political and it was like oh my god And we've over-indexed heavily, almost exclusively, on polished celebrities, which has created this inauthentic space in the minds of especially young voters who maybe have only ever seen that.

And so, the fact that we're turning to,

I'm going to say it, influencers and content.

I like content creator personally.

It's just a little sound.

It's a little less

born.

Well, maybe.

Maybe we swear a lot.

So it's adult content because of how much we swear.

So we are adult content creators, all of us here.

And, but the point is, like, the fact that we're turning to influencers to be more authentic is a little ironic in itself.

But, um, like, Lissandra, when we were talking

the other day, you know, you mentioned like getting paid in chicken tenders and like a $50 check, you know, doing your, like, you've been doing this for 20 years.

You are as real of a person as everyone else on this podcast.

And so, yes, we are influencers who collectively have a reach of God to over 3 million people or something.

Eight months ago, like we were all just people going, Jesus Christ, what the hell is wrong with this country?

I have to do something.

10 months ago, I was doing social media for a

company.

Like I was doing social media for somebody else.

And I had my account because I'm a comedian, right?

So I had my stuff.

I had like, like, I had just reached 10,000 followers.

But like, I was just posting my takes on pop culture.

It wasn't anything that like I felt really super strong about.

I was just being sassy and funny.

But then once this started going, I was like, oh no, this is, and this, this commentary is needed.

And that's how I feel like all of our energy found the

energy of other people.

We attracted like-minded people who also

maybe we can articulate the frustration in a more succinct way than they can.

And they and they feel less alone.

So I'm really curious.

So

you were doing one type of content and you decided to shift to doing political content.

What was that thought process like?

And why did you decide to make that shift?

Well, I mean, I'm a comedian and normally,

like I said, I do stand up.

So, and I'm in Georgia.

So, talking about politics here is weird.

I think the shift was because I just couldn't be silent, especially with when during the election.

process, it was easy for me to make content that was pro Kamala

because of what i was seeing uh and then i just like did little i just i had a series where i did like little wishes uh like i hope that your avocado is always bad like i hope like you're like

every time you go uh get your tapatillo it's gone and like you know like just like little tiny curses uh like i hope yeah i it's like if you if you want to be white so bad may you never find cecil okay like

uh and those did pretty well as well but then it wasn't until, I mean, until like 50, 60 days ago that I started adding links to the equation.

And now we almost can't recognize you.

If when you, when your face pops up, I know you as Caroline Levitt now.

And I look for the first thing I look for is the necklace.

You did a, you did the peeps necklace.

Do you keep all of those, by the way?

Yeah.

The non-perishable ones.

Okay.

Well, and peeps don't perish.

So your Easter necklace should be perfect, like for that's nuclear proof.

And then the other thing I listen to, so first I look at the necklace.

And then the second thing I listen for is, what the hell are you going to say in place of Kilmara Breo Garcia?

Because you change the name every time.

Do you have that list written down somewhere?

Because you've said like

at least, what, 50 different variations of his name?

I should have it written down somewhere.

I should go through him.

But no, I just think it's a silly thing.

I think the, I,

I will catch because every, I monitor the comments.

I'm sure you guys do this with your content as well.

Like, you monitor, and I'm like, I see what people, what people like, and then I'm like, okay, I can lean into that.

Um, like, that's why I reference Home Alone 2 Lost in New York all the time.

And now, my kids, every time we watch Home Alone 2, they yell at the TV.

That's how political our environment is.

They're like, not that guy.

Well, and now, so now this character has become something far greater to where back to trending up, you were publicly endorsed, right, by uh, Jasmine crockett

thank them

so jasmine crockett had reshared one of my videos uh

on instagram and best day right so i'm one that wants to great feeling oh my god iconic legendary and i was like that's that's almost as a great of a day as when jack schlossberg followed me i was like god let it I'm just like, they're like my infinity stones.

I'm collecting all of them.

So I

didn't, I had a meeting,

Congress meeting set up with trending up with Ro Khanna.

So I have that recorded.

I have to

put all that together, but it was really great to have a conversation with him.

But I only had a scheduled meeting with him to ask him about a couple of things that I wanted to know about.

And then

my friend texts me and she's like, Jasmine is in the lobby.

Come stand in mind.

And I was like, oh, absolutely.

So I went, ran to the lobby.

and then I just pulled her aside and like and I like as we were getting ready for the group picture I said hey I this is what I do and she was like

you should have told me

and we took the picture and then that's when she like did the comment where she's like you're my press secretary this the real press secretary and I was like

that is amazing that's awesome wonderful

but no I was sitting there like I was sitting at a table at dinner because I um this is all crazy right but like I have a manager now uh and like all this stuff and i was sitting at a table like and the people that are being managed by the same management team i'm sitting next to good trouble

who all of us know icon and then aaron furnace harry sisson all these people and then like i turned i turned to sam good trouble and i was like and i told and i was like oh yeah i'm like i do the caroline levit sketches he was like that

you

and so i was sitting next to him all dinner he was just being nice to me as a normal person

And then I was like, oh my God.

And so it took a while for everybody to click, but it was really

funny.

Well, for folks that don't really know the TikTok space, the folks that Lissandra just mentioned probably have, what, over 10 million combined followers?

Well, more than that, something.

Just to give you a sense for folks that are more into politics and social media, like these people are massive.

I mean, it's funny because in this room alone,

I think we're at almost 4 million with Lissandra with us.

And, you know, it

people in the in DC still kind of think of CNN and MSNBC as the big gets, but the reality is like these people will get you more eyeballs all the time, which is why we have been yelling and screaming about working together so that we can defeat this horrendous nightmare that we're dealing with.

So, but I want to ask you, so you're getting, obviously, you've got to, you've gotten to meet a lot of really cool people and had really great reactions.

How has the online community been?

As we know, as five white dudes, we have it the easiest online, and you are definitely not that.

So how has the reaction been, especially poking the MAGA bear every single day?

A lot of the response has been very positive, more positive than I anticipated, to be honest with you.

But there's a lot of people that are like, thank you so much.

I'm watching this from overseas and I'm an American.

Like this helps me like have a laugh.

Like this is, this is usually the only time I laugh in the morning when i'm getting my news or this and that or this is the only way that i get the news which is concerning don't do that um please don't i'm not a news source uh but but and that but then there's always uh usually on instagram is usually where you get more hate comments you have hate followers because i have them people

incessantly comment there's like 50 of them probably that are like They comment on almost every video I post and they're just losing their shit about what I'm saying.

And then I check and it says follow back because they follow me.

And it's like, what?

What the fuck are you doing?

Why?

If you don't want to see me, don't follow me.

Yeah.

And I had one of them, I had to block one of those guys because he was like,

he went through my LinkedIn.

And then some dude on,

some dude was like, you only went to, you didn't even graduate from college because

I transferred to Cal Arts.

So I did two years there, but he's like, you dropped out.

And I was like, even if I did drop out, it doesn't matter.

I'm doing better than you.

Because I'm not trolling people looking through their LinkedIn troll.

But no, it's

people are going to do that.

I'm quick to block.

It doesn't like

literally go get a life.

I had a guy DM me actually this morning that he was like, he was so confident that, because in my bio, I have something about college educated.

And he was so confident that he had figured out where I went to school.

And I was like, funny story.

No, wrong.

And he was like, well, what do you mean?

I was like, nope, you got it wrong, you fucking troll.

Where did he think he like he just picked up?

Did he pick it up?

For some reason, he thought I went to the University of Alabama.

Like he was dead set on the fact that I was from Alabama and that I went there.

And I was like, no, dog, that's not like, it wouldn't even be hard to figure out where I actually go if you just paid attention.

Well, we, we're going to talk more about relationships and things with how men act online a little bit later, but I do want to get to some news first.

And since we're talking about angry people um let's talk about the new pope so we have a new pope uh pope leo love tim's transitions with the best

you know what like i i i'm gonna i i'm a lot better at transitions than starting that's for sure i have to make up for my disastrous starts um so buddy

anxiety yeah yeah

there's a pill for that you guys yeah okay okay it's on the other podcasts you just have to listen to the other the other male podcasts That's true.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Anyways, anyways.

And now I've lost my complete train of thought.

I'm just dragging this transition.

So Pope, Pope Leo emerged, I guess, was anointed.

The white smoke came.

And he is the first American pope, but also, interestingly enough, one of the first popes that used social media.

before he was pope and even before he was cardinal, which I think that was just two years ago.

And it turns out he doesn't like Donald Trump or J.D.

Vance very much.

And the reason is their position, mostly, I think, is their position on immigration and migrants and the fact that the Snoop Pope actually believes that they are human beings with emotions and feelings and should be treated as such.

What a novel concept.

And MAGA is mad.

You know, and this is not the most religious group of people

here, but

what do we think about their anger?

I've got a few ideas, but I want to hear what you guys think.

Can I ask a question, though?

Because I grew up with no religion.

I don't understand the Pope thing.

How much do Catholics care about the Pope?

Like, I truly agree.

And why?

Like, what does the Pope do?

I don't even know what the Pope does.

Well, he's the leader of the Church.

I think there's, what is it, 1.6 billion Catholics globally or something like that?

A lot.

A lot.

And historically speaking, he has been the most powerful religious leader in the world.

He also is the head of the Vatican, which is its own independent state.

So he runs that as well.

But also, just the entire network of, I grew up Catholic, if you couldn't tell, the entire network of churches and everything all funnels up into the Vatican.

So it is, it is a very centralized

governing body because I think the church is really thinking of them more as a state is probably better than thinking of them as

just church.

So that I think is why, and he's always been the most recognizable religious leader globally,

at least in the Western developed world.

Here's my question: Does what he thinks actually change the minds of Catholics?

Is he that important where, like, people who are hard MAGA lunatics will go, wait a minute, this Pope doesn't think that.

I'm going to change my mind.

Or is it not the level of effect that he has on people?

I think so.

I think so.

That's awesome.

I was just looking it up because I was like, I'm pretty sure, but I don't want to make an assumption.

Puerto Rico is 85% Catholic.

Do you have a, we all know each other's religious upbringing, religious background, but do you have a unique take on Catholicism?

Because it feels like kind of a political decision almost by the Catholic Church to kind of just make a very fine point here with immigration, with Hispanic culture, and with religion against MAGA.

I mean,

I was baptized Catholic, but I don't practice any pebbing.

We didn't, we went to church when I was growing up, but I think it's just mostly for like the vibes.

The Latino culture, very, very Catholic.

And people do take that very, very seriously.

And so I

do think that, unfortunately, some of them have

been praying also to the

Trump gods, too.

Like, so

but it is, but it is a good sign because they do take the Pope seriously.

Unfortunately, though, again, if they're religious and also then watching the spell, the incantation, the prayers of Fox News, they're listening to that.

And then

they start to think, oh,

is the Catholic Church turning to the devil?

Because they're like, I don't know.

So

it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

But they do historically

go

and pay it to a lot of, they put a lot of weight in what the Pope uh says i i think that the the thing that seems to me to be the most helpful is that it pierces this notion that if you are uh a religious person that you in the united states that you have to be a republican and i think that you know there is lassandra you make a good point about that there's sort of a the altar of trump i mean it is a cult 30 25 to 30 percent of this country would would support him even if he mowed down an entire crowd of people in new New York.

They would not, but they would say he does, he had every right to do that.

But I think this notion that the Pope has, I mean, Francis before and now Leo are saying, well, wait a minute, like in Catholicism, like helping the poor and lifting up the poor and people who are displaced is how you are Catholic.

It is not your positions on political issues, which is what Trump, I mean, listen, Trump is not religious at all.

Like these people are using him as a vessel to pass, to push their agenda, right?

That guy doesn't, he couldn't even read a, he couldn't even cite one section of the Bible.

He likes all of them.

He can't.

He likes all of them.

He couldn't name a book, which is a very obvious answer.

I'm a lapsed Catholic and I know the answer to that.

But I do think that it pierces that a little bit.

I don't think it changes.

the dynamics of our political situation, but I think it is helpful as a signal that, no, MAGA does not equal religion, be in this group of people.

And with

abortion, that was always the biggest, that was the red flag with the Catholic Church, was Catholic Church is staunchly pro-life as an official position.

And I always kept an eye on that because Catholic voters are predominantly in the Northeast and they're predominantly Democrats, 65, 70% at different points in time.

And so I've been keeping my corner of my eye on that, on that shoe in the door.

But I mean, Donald Trump is, he's not pro-life.

He is pro whatever he, whatever is in his best interest when he wakes up in the morning, which is like the most non-religious approach to life.

You could put like zero principles, zero values.

And so there are a lot of inroads there, but there are some of those red flags that we have to watch out for.

What do you think Donald Trump would have said if Stormy Daniels got pregnant?

Yeah, really.

Yeah, we

went pro-choice pretty fast.

Yeah.

He was pro-choice.

There's interviews with Trump from like 20 years ago where he was like super pro-choice.

And, you know, he just flipped the script because it's good for him.

Because he woke up that morning and needed to be pro-choice.

Just like all the Republicans that are pro-life until they need to get their baby mama an abortion so that it keeps quiet and they drive across straight lines.

I think he was pro-choice.

He only became pro-life because it was beneficial.

There was no benefit to him being pro-choice in the past.

It's just like he actually said what he thought.

And then all of a sudden, what he thought was wrong to his goals.

How many people do you think Trump has gotten pregnant back in the and 90s?

I don't even want to think about it.

I don't even want to think about it.

I mean, I think there was absolutely, absolutely a personal vested interest in abortion for a large portion of that guy's adult life.

That's a good point.

Like he had planned B pills.

Like people have like matches in their bathroom

in a little bowl, just like sitting there.

Please take the sign.

Please take one.

Yeah.

Please take one.

Please take one.

But it's been funny, like to see all of these mega folks just they're like melting down like the laura loomers of the world, which is obviously very extreme.

But she does have the president's ear, they've all lost their minds because they're like, This, this is a like, oh, they're calling him like a Marxist pope, and it's like

because he believes in the dignity of life, which I thought was what the pro-choice thing was, but or excuse me, the uh pro-life thing was, but there's the Jesus thing, man.

Like, right, read the damn book, come on,

don't even have to read the whole thing, yeah, just like a little part of it, it's really not that hard.

They read the Trump Bible.

So in their defense,

the autograph part.

They don't know how to read.

They read just.

I don't know if they went further.

Yeah.

They looked at the pictures.

Does everybody here think that Donald Trump is going to try and deport the trope, the Pope, or strip him of citizenship?

Because

he was born in the United States, but he is a dual citizen.

He became Peruvian.

He lived in Peru.

Yeah.

Well, they're probably going to look into it.

Pam Bondi's on it right now.

Of course she is.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I'm sure that that he thinks that peru and el salvador are the same country so he's probably just going to be like send him to that sea cod and peru vedor do you think he could actually name one country in south america without the like if he looked at a map maybe brazil you know fifth grade could do brazil maybe but you know that's fifth grade you're giving him a lot of credit here that's true exactly you know i know let's be he doesn't well he doesn't even know where he's sending these folks did you see the story about libya where like they asked him hey do you know like there's a inside sources saying you're going to start sending these deportees to libya and he's like i don't know

How do you not know?

He doesn't know anything.

I don't think he could name half of the states.

If you give him a blank map, I don't think he could name half of them.

Maybe about 12 on the East Coast.

Well, the East Coast and the West are, I mean,

California.

Right.

California.

He would put a big red sharpie X over California and say naughty.

But I think that it does.

It's interesting to say that, though, because it is like more and more people, I think, are realizing that Donald Trump's not really working too much.

He's playing a lot of golf and he's watching a a lot of TV and he's delegated.

This is the danger of the second term that we didn't have in the first term because he was much more hands-on, which is why things got so screwed up because he couldn't like get out of his own way.

But I think now like he's got all his minions just doing the things and he's just like staying out of jail.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I'll tell you this.

I have a number of Republican friends and people that I know through the years that, you know, I keep in touch with and try to see how they feel about Trump.

For the first time, multiple, multiple of them have not only come to me, me, but I've just gone to ask them.

They do not like what he's doing.

They're against what he's like.

I had a friend of mine send me a message being like, I'm kind of seeing the left's point on DEI, and I don't really like what Trump's doing with tariffs.

Like there's a lot of Republicans who are just like not cool with what he's doing this time because they're seeing the real Donald Trump.

This is Trump unfiltered.

He's got all the lunatics in his cabinet.

He's got every single yes man around him.

And then they get to see the real vision of Trump and they go, ooh, I don't know if this is so good.

Shit.

And that's where we're at right now, which I think is amazing.

Like, I think, you know, Trump loses more of his own party than any other politician, I think, in presidential elections.

And he gathers up the strays to make up for it.

But if this were the election re-held today, so many Republicans would not vote for him because of how he's done so far.

Well, I think what's clear, he would not win if the election was today.

I don't think so.

I agree.

Don't.

I think Harris would win.

I think it would depress the Republican turnout.

And I think more people who sat on the sidelines in November would come out.

And I think that would be enough to, I think, swing it back.

Well,

let's pivot back.

This is not as good of a segue as my first one.

I apologize for that.

But while we have Lissandra here, a woman who has a large following online.

And

we, as the, as these five white guys have talked a lot about toxic masculinity, how we get through to young men, which we have seen a worrying trend rightward, listening to folks like Andrew Tate, who is literally going on trial for rape and says all kinds of horrific things about women.

We thought this would be a good time to talk about toxic masculinity and like, you know, how is dating in 2025?

Because unfortunately, I think, not unfortunately, fortunately, four of us are married and one is

not.

But so we're a little out of the game a little bit, but it's an important conversation, just a little bit.

You know,

what is it like out there?

I'm from as a as a woman who has a relatively like well-known profile now with, you know, you got a large following, like, how, how is dating in 2025?

Tell me about it.

It's not great.

It's not.

I will say that I, like, for example,

I,

well, I, I'm a comedian, so I'm usually with just comics all the time.

I don't, uh, dating has not historically been my priority.

I know a lot of people who

are constantly on dating apps

and just

just trying, just trying to go on dates because

I just, and I feel like a lot of people in my generation have decentralized dating.

And it is

because we are.

financially independent,

capable.

And oftentimes, to be really honest with you guys, every time I've been in a relationship, my life has gotten worse.

It seems like the pattern, and I'm not alone because this is the discourse with the girly pop TikTok.

It's that men

now they want a submissive provider as their partner.

So they want somebody that is going to do exactly whatever they want them to do, provide that labor, like the 50s housewife labor of like having the house clean, but then you also need to provide half the income of the house um and what disinterests me from dating and again i'm cursed with heterosexuality so unfortunately uh i i am

left to the the scraps of men that are upon the yard hopefully mine is just ending his divorce uh and then i'll i'll get him on the on the flip side of that

I feel like every single woman I know, all of my girlfriends are like, they're just amazing.

They're working on themselves.

they're beautiful they're they're they're healthy like they're smart they're funny they're working on their careers and they and they give to their friends they're so amazing and then i know like three guys like that it is like they're not working on themselves like we are we do a lot of like we'll go we'll be doing yoga meditation we'll be like you know we do some introspection and and

men aren't they don't have the same community support as women do because we get to share our innermost thoughts and feelings all the time with our friends because we're encouraged to do that.

So, I do think that that

has also impacted the way that men not only deal with women but deal with themselves.

And there's like that shallowness there.

And so, that impacts dating because then they feel like we owe them something and then they get angry.

And that's where we get angry comments online, where

the society has been like the patriarchal society has been set up as such to where woman needs to marry man and then man is and then you follow man.

But

that has led a lot of us historically to suffer.

So until I meet somebody that can

match my level and like add to my life, I'm not interested.

My life is great and I love my friends, my family, my dog.

Everything is cool.

Yeah, I'm not trying to have you disrupt that unless you're adding to it.

I want to know, is that, do you notice a major difference between like Republican men and more progressive men?

Or is this sort of like, and across the board, all men are sort of falling into the same category?

I think a lot of men are falling into the same category.

It's just a matter of how aggressive they are

because it's the, it's the lack of, uh, it's the lack of emotional development and intelligence that a lot of men have.

And if they're not investing in themselves in that way, then they're not going to be able to match their partner in a certain way.

For example, one of the last relationships that I was in,

he presented

as someone who was working on himself.

But then at the end of the day, there was just some,

there was a lot of emotional work that would need to be done for him to be able to like

take account.

Like there's just like lack of accountability, but stuff that like,

I think one of the questions that I ask when I meet somebody is like, oh, what was the

What was your mom like?

And like, how did she, it's like, how did your mom raise you?

and i and i will run the other way if someone was like my mom was super hard worker she took care of everything because then they expect that from you like if like oh no because and oftentimes those men still get treated like that still get stuff from their mom and still expect a woman to do on like all this labor for them and so that's a question that i've learned over time that if somebody uh if a guy like just watched his mom like get

just work herself to death then i'm like, see you later, dude.

Unless he's done a lot of therapy, in which case, it's like, but that's rare.

That's what I was going to just jump into there.

Is it

does kind of dovetail into the fact that it's, you know, Mental Health Awareness Month, and men have a huge stigma with being, you know, working on themselves in any way, especially going to therapy.

And like, I think if you can address that stigma to a certain degree, it would help a lot.

Because I know I go to therapy every week.

It's immeasurably helpful, but it is a difficult, like, it's changed over the course of the last, you know, five years, 10 years, but it's still like, there's a huge stigma for being a man and like talking about how you feel at all.

I feel lucky in a way to have deployed at a young age, like had some pretty shitty things happen and then enter an adult life of therapy because, you know, with the military experience came, you know, a sense of brotherhood that you just don't get anywhere in America.

that men don't get anywhere in America.

A closeness, inability to share,

you know, what you're experiencing mentally and emotionally with your peers in ways that is completely stigmatized everywhere.

And because I'm a disabled veteran, I qualify for what is effectively unlimited healthcare.

And I can get everything that I need from one place.

I actually just started

marriage therapy not too long ago with my wife.

And one of the first things that

we did these questionnaires, like to see what we wanted to work on.

And one of the things that I think is really the key to our relationship, and she might have said it in a less offensive way if she was thinking about it.

But one of the things that she likes about me is she said, he's not an alpha, meaning like I wasn't domineering.

I'm not controlling.

I'm not,

you know, paranoid about when she's going out or, you know, where she is or anything like that.

I, I find a lot of happiness in treating my partner like a partner and not, you know,

going anywhere near the traditional, I'm using air quotes for those who are just listening, the traditional version of a male-female relationship.

Yeah.

Well, and I think that the

troubling trend of young men moving rightward is a mix of there not being any community for young men, like especially once you graduate college, we've talked about this before, really what you have is sports and drinking and with your friends.

Like those are the two options, which the sports thing's fine.

The drinking thing is fine if controlled, but like leads a lot of men down and women too, but like a lot of men down a very dangerous and dark path.

And there is no community.

And so seeing Republicans basically welcoming everybody into that.

you know they're getting that they're being reinfor the message is being reinforced that you should be an alpha you know this andrew tate nonsense.

You should be an alpha.

You are the man of the house and you do this.

And we are giving them a horrible message that is destructive and isn't actually helpful for them.

And it's not helpful for women either.

How do we, and this is a very difficult question for anybody.

How do we break out of that?

Like, how do we start to develop community for folks, for men in particular?

On the, it's not even about liberal or being a Democrat, just like in a like equality perspective, of like you are on equal footing with your partner, not above or below.

What do how do we do that?

Yeah, I think there are two parts.

I mean, one is just saying it out loud, because right now, um, when I look at the kinds of guys, you know, I'm 42 millennial, when I look at the kinds of guys I grew up with, and I look at the kinds of things that were said in locker rooms, and

all those things are the same things.

They're the same people now running AM radio, running the podcasts.

They're the ones more narrowly and more narrowly over 20, 30 years, defining what it means to be a man.

And because they're monstrous idiots, they're willing to just say the thing out loud.

Whereas the cautious people who are trying to think through this and be careful with how we characterize incredibly important topics like what is your role as a person of your gender in America, which like gender roles destroy everybody.

Let's be really clear about that.

We try to have these careful discussions behind closed doors where it's very thoughtful and people are free to share.

And they're going in front of 10 million people and saying a real man is 6'3.

He's jacked.

He's rich.

He's armed and he's willing to fight to kill anybody to save his family.

Like that is the, and he's Christian and he leads the household and his wife obeys him and his kids obey the wife.

Like this is the entire structure.

And they will just go and say it and they have conferences and they go on the news and they say it and they don't apologize for any of it.

There's no gray area.

And so they show up with all this conviction and there's no other alternative.

And so that's, I mean, just,

obviously, this is a huge reason why we're trying to do what we're trying to do, which is to tell young men, you don't have, like, there is, there are a lot of ways that you can have a good life that don't have anything to do with owning your dominion and taking this weird red pill alt-right pipeline to where 70% of women are off limits to you because you're looking for a very, very, very specific version of the, you know, Aryan Barbie, I call them, but the, the alt-right wife who is going to have six kids and be blonde and obey you for the rest of your life.

Like, that's not, that's not most women.

And that's not what most women want for themselves or for their daughters.

That's not certainly what I want for myself or my daughter.

And so, but like, that's all that's out there.

And that's, that's the, that's 90% of, of masculine content.

And so just opening up the conversation so that guys, when they're having drinks together or going bowling or whatever guys are doing together, they can actually say like, hey, have you guys heard this?

Like maybe we don't have to do this other thing.

And they can have those more genuine conversations that I think right now, a lot of men are just straight up afraid to even say out loud and share those observations with their friends.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the same as with politics, right?

Republicans have an easy sell.

and Democrats have a hard sell.

We're trying to sell a more complex story.

It's the same thing here where you go, vulnerability is not a selling point, right?

Coming and saying, hey, be a vulnerable man that's a hard thing to do especially because you're breaking these roles selling hey be big and strong and masculine that's super easy so like they have the benefit of come in it's an easy thing to go after it's the established norm come on in and do more of that whereas we're going maybe the norm is terrible and maybe you should do something really hard that's a difficult thing to sell and you know i i think right now you're seeing the small percentage of men who are willing to take on that challenge and be you know on the path of working on themselves every single day as they should be but the the right is winning because they're just selling you a piece of chocolate cake.

We're selling you a salad.

And that's a really tough sell.

But we got to find ways to make it look like it's a little bit more palatable.

You guys have liberal wives, though.

So it's like, and partners.

And so to you, it isn't a salad.

You know what I mean?

To you guys, it is.

So like, that's an interesting thing, too, because

there isn't just that.

So I'm interested in like what do you feel is different from you guys between those people?

Because I know a lot of people, because I mean, I have, I went to high school in Florida and my brother lives in Louisiana.

And I know what kind of values those people have.

And I don't think they're bad people, but I do think that they're

simple

values.

That's a good word.

I don't know.

So, what would you say?

What do you guys feel differentiates you?

Well, I'm happy to, I'll start.

I, you know, I don't know if this is the right answer, but so so I, my parents growing up were very equal.

They both did cooking.

You know, my dad did more grilling, did cooking, but like they shared the responsibilities.

And I had a very strong grandmother who

was divorced when my mom was less than two and she never got remarried.

And she worked until she was 83 because she wanted to.

And so I always had strong, and my mom was a teacher, worked, you know, worked the entire time.

So I had strong

female role models.

And I really, you know, my, my, my grandmother, my God, like her life, she's passed a few years ago, but had not an easy life and always was, was the most positive person I knew.

So I was like, you know, I always grow up, I'd be like, why would I not treat somebody like that as an equal or even above me?

Like, I don't have the ability to put on the smile face that she did when she and she went through you know she got divorced in a time when people didn't do that and you know so i had i had role models uh also my family would completely murder me if i treated a woman like garbage and i but i you know it's a joke but like not really and i i think some people that's lacking for them that's that's that's the one for me um i would just be dead like never hear from me again Right, but you also, but wait a minute.

Hold on.

I want to push on Luke for a second here because his most viral video ever is about his dad being an awesome dad and teaching him the right value.

You had a healthy.

That's the same dad who would murder me.

Yeah, but it's not about murdering you, though.

No, no, no.

Right.

Instilling value system.

That's a very good way to put it.

Out of love.

Right.

But he instilled a value system in you that you carry to this day.

You're not doing it out of fear.

No, no, no.

You're doing it because you were raised correctly.

Yeah.

That's the difference.

I don't want to diminish

your family's experience and how you, but like, it's not just a fear thing.

It's like, yeah, yeah.

No, you were raised to respect everybody.

It's not that tough.

It's, it's really just not that hard.

Yeah.

It's simple.

I mean, it's the same for me.

I think it's faith-based.

Like, yes, with definitely.

With a lot of the, because it feels like a lot of the

simpler

energy does come from the,

from the,

from the preachers or from people that are like the men are the head of the household.

And

you are following the man.

And then, so that rhetoric is, is what people, that, that becomes their value system and how they view the world.

And then everything comes from that.

So I feel like maybe that's where the

innate

differentiator sounds like it's coming from.

Definitely.

I think that plays a huge role in it.

I grew up, you know, and as Tim was describing his, his childhood, I was thinking about like the dynamics that I grew up with were totally opposite.

One of the most influential adult in my earliest years were my grandma, who was like the go-to-church three times a week Catholic,

you know, Sunday and then volunteering a few times a week.

And, you know, her relationship with my grandfather, who I never got to know, he died when I was like two.

He was like the American Legion commander, like a real, like a World War II vet,

real traditional, like had a pension, worked at Grumman, like a defense contractor, right?

So that's the, that's the world that I was kind of coming out of.

I went into the army, stationed in the south, surrounded by conservatives.

You know, these, these values are not taught.

You just see them, right?

It wasn't until I came home and was all sorts of messed up and met a woman who was a refugee from Iraq.

We were the same age.

She was a peace activist.

I was a peace activist.

I came at peace from the libertarian side.

She came at the peace from the socialist side.

And we had like the most dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship ever.

But it left a tremendous impact on me.

And I mean, if I was, if I were turning hard right, like she bent it all the way back to the left.

And, you know, I am so thankful that in that time that I met this woman who made such a tremendous impact on me, I couldn't have imagined, I can't imagine today, with all of the hindsight, imagining it happening any other way because all of those value traditional air quotes again, values that I grew up with were like beaten out of me in six months.

And I'm, I'm very lucky for

her transformative impact on my life.

It matters so much.

We're thankful to her.

Yeah,

for sure.

We got a good timeline, Chris.

Oh, thank you guys.

For me personally, I think the question is, the exact question you have to ask is, is it about faith?

Because I grew up in an area in northern New Jersey where it's like...

All the dads go to work in Manhattan.

Everybody's pretty Christian.

And, you know, the traditional values and the traditional roles are pretty much that.

And I came from a family that was not that way.

Like my mom was kind of the leader of the family.

And, you know, I was raised in a situation where there was no religion.

I'm still not religious.

And so everything was sort of just like, value people.

That's it.

And it didn't really matter.

And there were a couple other kids that I knew that were like that and had families like that.

But most of my friends back then had these traditional families.

And most of those guys today are.

perpetuating that traditional structure in their own life.

And the guys that I know from when, you know, that were sort of like me and coming from similar circumstances are not.

So you can draw a pretty straight line.

What you're raised around is what you're going to turn into.

If you see see people trying to put you in a traditional role and that's the right thing, you'll think that that's the right thing.

And if you're not, you're not.

So, I mean, it's a question of like trying to break down the fundamentals of how things are structured, unfortunately.

I have a little different background.

And

I was raised by Midwest Methodist and Lutheran parents.

And so if you know the Midwest, you know what that means.

If you don't,

they're Canada nice, you know, they're Midwest nice.

And so even the religious people, they went to church every single week.

My grandparents both fought in World War II.

They went to church every single week.

I was raised religious.

But I was also raised by a biologist dad and a feminist mom who were both hippies through the 60s and 70s.

And they're still proud Democratic voters.

So I think like you see here, unless you're bucking the trend, you were raised by

healthy role models,

lo and behold.

And it helps you allow, you know, helps you understand that there are a lot of ways that life can go, that can be great.

Because my wife was raised in a non-religious household, just no religion.

They didn't even talk about it.

And she and I are both, my wife and I are both just full-blown atheists now, and our kids are full-blown atheists, and everybody's happy.

And we also weren't disowned by our family, by my family in the process, which I know people who were told at 18.

You will never see your siblings again if you leave our religion, if you leave our church.

And if my parents had weaponized my relationship with my brother and sister against me to keep me religious, shit would have gone a lot differently.

And it would have been really bad for the whole family, especially really bad for me.

And I don't know if I would have made different decisions or if I would have just attempted to live a lie for decades.

marrying a religious woman and doing all sorts of different things that would be an absolute nightmare.

Because right now, and because Mother's Day is, I think will have been right behind us when we release this episode.

I'm married to my best friend.

She's the mom of our two kids.

She's the best person ever.

I can't possibly fathom the life that these MAGA guys are trying to prescribe for young men right now.

Because when you wake up every day and you're just like, oh, hey.

And you can go to the movies together and they're your drinking buddy.

And you can also talk about how you feel about things.

And they're not staring at you, waiting for you to bring home, you know, an elk or whatever to feed the family, like this hyper-masculine version of, of how to be a husband and how to be a father.

We're just two people.

We're just two sort of half-shitty people just trying to get through everything.

And that is so amazing.

And I cannot imagine what it would be like in one of these gender role relationships.

So, guys, who are listening?

There are other ways.

You don't have to do the Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, like alt-right thing.

Please don't.

Yeah.

Please.

Yeah, don't.

I think what's interesting about that whole thing is that these religious folks, sorry, Elizabeth, we'll get to you in a second.

They are setting these guys up to fail because what a lonely existence that like you're supposed to keep your mouth shut and you're quote unquote the head of the house, which means you're supposed to shoulder that responsibility.

It's no wonder that men have such, you know, high rates of suicide and alcoholism and drug abuse because they're being set up to fail.

Like that is not why.

And why?

Why do we have to do that?

Right.

It sounds miserable.

No, that's what I was.

That's literally what I was telling.

I was like, and I don't even think this makes anybody happy.

No one wins

in that dynamic because like I know of, I know of married folks that are in our in our age range and they are like they don't they're in that same traditional manner like the guy comes home and he checks out and does yard work and then like they're all kind of they're kind of just existing because they're in these dynamics that they set up for themselves and they believe that they need to stay together for the family and all this stuff.

And I'm like, y'all, nobody's happy.

And like, what?

You guys are like drinking yourselves to sleep every night.

Like, and you just go from, and you're like going for just do you want to make sure that everything looks good.

And also, like, with the, with the faith-based stuff, like, I know, I know some folks that, um, that pre that that are married, and then they'll, they'll turn the word of their preacher to whatever meaning they want.

So it's just like,

oh, it is, it is all, it is all so fun.

Well, and you said no one's happy, and that's who's happy is the person selling the guns, the person who's selling the alcohol, the person who's selling the religion, the person who's selling the supplements for the, for the guy to be the thing, the guy working at the.

All of these things are endorsed by the right.

Yes.

All of them.

Alcohol, guns, pre-workout, steroids, all of it.

And then

prosperity, gospel.

Like, if you do all of these things, then you will be prosperous.

So the guys keep paying their money back into it.

Yeah.

Well, and then and then the

insidious part about it is that when it doesn't work, then you just blame others.

You blame people of color.

You blame immigrants.

You blame the LGBTQ plus community, anybody else.

And the vicious cycle continues.

But do you know who never has to hold responsibility?

is the preachers or the MAGA folks and the Andrew Tates.

They will just continually tell you that you are great and it's someone else's problem and that the thing just spins round and around for generations and generations.

So guys, don't do any of that.

Yeah.

By the way, you are the problem, MAGA man.

You are the problem.

Yeah, but I think we have to do a better job, though, on our side, or even just frankly in the middle of just creating places for people to have fun and not have to like do these other things.

So I think like, yes, like those guys are the problem, but we also need some solutions ourselves.

And I don't think we've done that yet.

You don't have to look like, like, you don't have to be a, like, you don't have to drink alcohol.

You don't have to be like a fucking multi-million dollar earner.

You don't have to look like a Greek god.

Like, you can just be happy without that shit.

I do think that there might be room for

men like y'all, men like yourselves to potentially include some of these men that could be on the convincible outskirts and just hang out with them and just lead by example and not necessarily because I get

why they get closed off when we talk down to them.

But then there's

like my mom is conservative and she's a, she was very, she grew up very poor.

And she grew up, she went, she got scholarships, she went to school, she became a doctor, right?

But that's like the boomer pipeline, right?

Like you, you have to go and work and be a professional.

She has been against my life choices the whole time.

But like, but I'm like, but I, I also like can't, I didn't want to be a doctor.

I, I'm like, I wanted to to be an artist.

And so I like, and I'm, I don't ask her for money, but eventually

I stopped, yeah, I stopped trying to justify my choices and my action because she's also like, you should get married.

And I was like, to who?

That's crazy.

But

eventually.

Just by leading by example, just by like having her be a part of my life, she got like, she came to visit me here in Atlanta and she was like, you know what?

She's like, I'm really proud of you.

I love the way that you've created your life.

It's like, right by, she's like, because we're at 10, we were, it was like 10 a.m.

and we were doing something.

She's like, by now, she's like, I would, I was like eyeballs deep in patience.

And then I'd have to go home and do all of this stuff.

And you're living your life how you want to do it.

And so like, I feel like just by being

and existing, people get exposure to different lifestyles.

Because for example, none of my, like, none of my conservative family members have any exposure to trans people.

So, or, or they don't know, and they don't know a lot of gay folks or anybody in the, like that, or, or, or, and they don't think they know undocumented immigrants.

Uh, so

just by

a little bit of exposure therapy, I suppose, and I think it's important for

the men that are probably listening to

be

the example and not.

And I think that's going to be

one of the factors is what when we were talking about in the conference, Chris, that it was like just by being and trying to make it make our lifestyle of like, because

the woke acceptance, it just feels like, okay, woke Hollywood, nobody wants that.

But just being good people, making that

leading by example.

Bringing it back home to where we started in talking about the trending up conference, like what I saw there was a ton of healthy people with good values who do have an influence.

What we don't have that the right does is a pipeline that introduces us to just regular everyday people on in places like college campuses.

I know there's the unfuck America Tour and for anyone who's watching TikTok drama, like...

There might be some mistakes that were made on that one, right?

An alternative is not to go there and try and get in fights with Charlie Kirk.

An alternative is to simply take people who are good influencers, good influences,

and bring them to young people and show them a better way.

Like that is possible.

It's just going to take resources.

And I want to add, we have a responsibility here because we've taken some time to sort of get into this very narrow space where men are victimized by gender roles.

But in the hierarchy of victims of the system, we are number one B and number one A is the billionaire MAGA overlords who are controlling us with puppet strings or trying to.

Every other person, including Lysandra and Lysandra's family members, and including all of the trans people and the gay people and all of the marginalized people, every other person has it significantly worse than us.

And when you start stacking up things that make you a minority, if you're an atheist,

lesbian, disabled person in Texas, like you are

you are in so much pain, you have no responsibility to fix the system, none at all.

And yet, when we look at the kinds of people, especially on the left, we say, well, what are they doing?

Or like, we need to put, you know, we need to give, why are they responsible for this?

Why are, why are, why is the most marginalized group of people, why are they responsible for fixing this country and taking on a disproportionate load?

Just because it hurts them more personally?

It's a privilege to sit around and say, I don't get to share my feelings with my buddies because if I don't share my feelings with my buddies and I get sad, I'm the only one who's going to hurt myself.

But all these other people, if they say who they are in public, you know, I don't have to, I don't look like an atheist.

I look like a, I look like a Christian man in a red state.

I can, I can just hide the most inconvenient part of me.

But most of these people cannot and they're scared to leave their door.

So while it is true that it kind of sucks to be a guy in a lot of ways, this is a relative scale we're talking about.

And it is an absolute privilege without a doubt to be in the majority because it's a choice.

Nobody else has a choice if they're going to suffer the consequences.

So I just want to make sure that's said.

So we're not all feeling bad for ourselves as straight white men as a community, not just us on the podcast.

Well,

that's why we did this, right?

Partially why we did this, because representation matters.

And in order for men to see a place for them

on the more progressive side where they treat women with respect and we kindness and empathy are considered strengths, not weaknesses, they have to see it.

We can't just talk about it.

So, you know, and we're going to, I think we're going to, we're going to wrap here because this is actually, I think, our longest episode yet,

which is great because it's been a great conversation.

But I would say to anybody listening, like, if you have a young person that is, has questions or wants to talk, like the five of us are more than happy to do that.

You can send us an email.

What's our email address?

Hello at find out.

I know it's like I try to say something like meaningful while also hawking away an email address seemed a little weird, but hello at findoutpodcast.com, or you can reach us on our substack, which is findoutpodcast.substack.com.

We want to be part of the solution here and we want to help people because I'll be honest, it is a lot nicer on this side.

Like, I think we all have problems.

We all, we're not perfect people and we, you know we fall into stereotypical uh gender roles on occasion and you know i think our wives all will will whip us into shape and get us back out of it but you know we're not perfect but like just we're here to talk we're here to listen and you know we want to help people live better lives so let's let's do that so with that

Lessandra

Vasquez, sorry.

Thank you for joining us and being Find Out's first guest.

Whoa.

Whoa.

That was perfect.

How did that happen?

I think someone might have an iPhone or an Apple computer in front of them because she did thumbs up and all kinds of fireworks just came up, which was perfect.

So we want to thank everyone, go follow her on TikTok as well.

And like as usual,

well, I got to hawk the shirt first too.

Everybody, we have merchandise now.

So please go to findoutpodcast.com to get your merchandise.

And with that, thank you, everybody.

Have a wonderful week.

And we will talk very soon.