Find Out: Why Trump’s tariffs are a disaster for Americans

Hello and welcome back to the Find Out Pod.

It is, we're actually recording on Thursday this week because there has been so much insanity going on with Donald Trump, tariffs,

stock market manipulation, all kinds of insanity.

So we wanted to get on while the news was hot.

I have a feeling that this is going to be very, very relevant when you listen to this.

So we're just going to dive into it.

And you may notice that there's only five of us today.

And it turns out trying to schedule six people across three time zones is a challenge.

So, Vic has not gone anywhere, he'll be back next week.

It's just really hard to get six guys who also have day jobs together to do this-year age gap

and a 40-year-old, I think it's a 35-year age gap.

Okay, as one of the older ones,

those numbers matter, yeah, they may not matter right now to you, Luke, but they start to matter.

It does counting deaths, it does, it does matter, anyways.

So, uh, Trump has done

crazy things this week that are crazy even for him.

So we're going to dive into it right now.

He announced tariffs, and then all of a sudden he made a claim that there were 70 countries that had called to negotiate, the list of which he said.

Yeah,

I think his ass is a crazy thing to say.

Right.

That's actually what he said, which I'm sorry, but not a great negotiating tactic to already insult the person on the other side.

Although there is room for 70 pairs of lips on his ass.

so it actually works out pretty like all at once just

you just gave me a visual i'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight but um so uh under the diaper under the diaper they won't of course they won't share the list which shows you how real it really is um but let's dive into it guys what is there a strategy is there not a strategy i mean i know my answer and by the laughing Is it smart or crazy smart?

Yeah.

We're talking chess, not checkers, which is what every MAGA person is saying online is this is chess, not checkers, guys.

Well, is it chess, not checkers?

Listen,

I think that there is no

administration that is less corrupt than the Trump-Musk administration.

They are definitely not crossing personal business interests and international or national policy.

There is no evidence at all of this.

It's been two months.

We haven't seen one scandal where it looks like they're putting their business.

So I just want to make sure our listeners know that the unvarnished truth is that Donald Trump is an honest and good businessman.

We've got 30 years backing him up.

I think we can just cut here, right?

We're done.

That's the whole conversation.

They're right.

Someone is going to clip that and they're going to fucking play it in the White House like it's a good thing.

They'll be like, look at this fucking anti-fascist veteran.

Dan Scovino, the caddy/slash social media expert, experts in quotes, by the way, will be showing this on his laptop because that's how they show him things is, or print it out.

Maybe they'll print it out and show him.

So Chris is obviously joking.

Market manipulation this week,

taking credit for rising stock market after he yanked stupid tariffs that tanked the stock market.

What do we even say about it?

I think that so first of all, we shouldn't assume that any

investigatory agency in the federal government is going to be empowered right now.

So

you know, my for those who don't know me, I'm Chris.

I'm the investigator, right?

What I hope is happening is that the state of New York, the city of New York, and any other relevant local agencies that have jurisdiction over things like Wall Street are taking fucking notes and looking at, I'm sure it's not impossible to get a list of who are members of Mar-a-Lago, but I would not at all be surprised if we saw a spike in trades specifically for members of the Mar-a-Lago club immediately before and immediately after.

major market moving announcements by the White House, because this is the type of thing that Donald Trump has done his entire life.

And we may not get justice

for three and a half plus years, but I hope to God that there

are a whole lot of hammers that are coming down hard and swift for all of the insider trading that absolutely is going on.

Yeah, Buck Gets 10, Marjorie Trailer Green put in a shitload of trades yesterday morning.

Yep, make sure to look that up.

Well, and he, and a lot of people probably don't know, this is very inside baseball, but he also fired all of the inspector generals.

And for those of you who don't know, I I worked at, this is Tim, I worked at the Interior Department for five years in the Obama administration.

So I'm familiar with the inspector general model.

And they are independent watchdogs within each of the agencies that are meant to root out corruption.

Donald Trump, like the first week he was in office, second week, something like that, fired them all, not really with any legal precedence to do it.

But this is why, right?

This is why.

There is no investigative power within the federal government, really.

I mean, the FBI, but Cash patel is running that so that's not going to happen so uh i think you're right it's going to be on the states but he got rid of them for this specific reason so that he could do this there's no better word than calling it fuckery um where he's manipulating the stock market on purpose which some legal experts say is a crime for the president to do

but he just he is the king of pump and dump right he's on record saying like the best time to buy is when the economy is in the tank he tweeted yesterday morning he's like like, right now,

I guess it was true social.

Time to buy.

And then he, then he, there was a video shared around where he was pointing, I think, at Charles Schwab.

Allegedly, he's like, this is actually Charles Schwab.

He made $2.5 billion yesterday.

And this guy made $500 million.

These guys are sitting around talking about how they gamed a system that they designed to be a game with our retirement funds.

They sent Martha Stewart to jail for less than this.

Right.

So this all happens.

And they're talking about sums of money that

you can take entire cities.

And those entire cities' worth of Americans will never earn a fraction of that much money in their entire careers, in their entire lifetimes, and multiple generations.

And these guys are in 24 hours just talking about flipping it, flipping it, flipping it while their own people are out on TV explaining why the exact opposite, this tariff, bring bring jobs back to the United States, why that is like the future of America.

And

they are so brazen about it.

You know, it's that's what's even changed from his first term where they're so brazen that they're just now just plainly doing this in broad daylight, thinking, well, our own supporters, they'll just say whatever we tell them to say.

They'll believe whatever we tell them to believe.

And, you know, remains to be seen.

I don't think regular Americans like that when this kind of stuff happens in broad daylight, but I've said that before and they continually surprise me.

I mean, the thing, and I'm going to apologize ahead of time for my voice, just like Luke last week, I'm six and now I sound like RFK.

It's my, yeah, it's my turn now uh like the thing that throws me off with them they've given like eight different reasons why these tariffs are a thing like it's fentanyl control it's border control it's leverage it's pre-negotiating trade deals it's trade deficit it's making america rich america rich again it's like the list is extremely long and none of them are coherent together like there's no like and but yet all of the magna people believe every single one when they can't possibly coexist together it it's absolutely incoherent i i don't understand it at all.

It's fucking doublethink.

They can hold two completely, like two ideas that will never work well together, and they hold them both to be completely true at the same time.

Like, like the one that I like the most is the fentanyl one.

Canadian fentanyl.

It's like 0.3% of fentanyl seizures, and yet Canada gets like destroyed by terrorists because of that.3%.

Why?

Why would anybody do that?

It makes no sense.

It's so stupid.

I hope that there is a breaking bad spin-off and that there's a Canadian Walter White.

And like that, that could be a series.

Logs hollowed out and filled with fentanyl.

Just like

training beavers to float

fentanyl.

Instead of the chicken brand, they can run it through the, what's the coffee place in Canada?

Hortons.

Hortons.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I almost said Willie Horton.

I'm like, well, that's not, that's not the right one.

But

what's funny because I think there's more fentanyl, U.S.

fentanyl seized in Canada than vice versa.

So if anybody really has a beef on the fentanyl trade, it's Canada.

I mean, it's just, it's just nonsense.

Donald Trump has wanted tariffs and thinks tariffs work forever, even though you look at every time that we have put.

tariffs, we never put tariffs that size out there.

Every time it's, it's because the economy is in the complete tank and it never works.

You know, and, but this market manipulation thing, I think, was brazen even for them.

But I guess the question is, who is going to stop them?

Nobody.

I mean, that's the problem.

Yeah, that's the reason I think that everybody's so pissed off.

It's like, what's the mechanism to stop this guy?

There isn't one.

I mean, really, it's Democrats winning in 26.

That's the mechanism to stop him at this point.

You know, we got some folks commenting on our last episode

because we might have

sounded a little too dismissive of the protests, but like that's, that's what's going to stop them, right?

It is the popular revolt.

It's the popular revolution.

I'll be out again on the 19th.

Let's fuck some shit up peacefully.

Peacefully.

No, January 6th.

No January 6th.

Peacefully.

Yep.

Yep.

No Tesla dealerships.

There is a new J6 that is happening on,

and this is news as of the day we're recording this, but I'm going to be leaning into this for the next few months.

On June 6th, the anniversary of D-Day, there is going to be a massive veterans protest.

Veterans organizations from around the country of all different political stripes are going to be heading down to meet on the National Mall to demand that Elon Musk and Donald Trump stop firing federal workers.

It's not just about veterans, it's about every American.

Every American depends on the services of

federal workers, even if they don't think so, right?

And by the time that we reach those mass firings, the mass reductions in force this summer, things are going to start getting ugly.

Like the market manipulation stuff, the tariff stuff, this is all bad and it can and probably will get worse.

But this 90-day thing is going to end

right around the time that the reduction in force also happens.

So you're going to have 200,000 additional unemployed veterans alone.

Like

that is the president runs another pump and dump.

Yeah.

I mean, the country's going to be hurting this summer.

I totally agree.

And

I'm maybe going to be the only opinion here that doesn't believe that this was actually an intentional pump and dump that was designed maybe more than about 48 hours ago.

I think, like everything, Donald Trump woke up and reacted to the situation in a way that was favorable to him, which is to just rewrite history.

Because Scott Besant was out there saying that this tariff plan,

which he allegedly fully believed in, was going to create $6 trillion.

This is the number they made up, $6 trillion in new tax revenue for the American government.

And so I, you know, got over 10 years, over 10 years.

So I got out a calculator.

That's almost $1,800 per American per year for 10 years because this is a consumer tax.

Tariffs are paid by American businesses and then they are passed on to their customers.

And And so he's talking about a $6 trillion tax hike on the consumer class, which is two-thirds of our economy is consumer spending, as everybody says.

So we're talking about a $6 trillion tax hike.

You know what it takes for a Republican to go on television and defend a $6 trillion tax hike?

They either need to be...

like diluted beyond a point that I can even fathom, which is remarkable for Republicans, or they need to actually truly deeply believe it.

And I do believe when you look at Trump's comments on the tariffs over his many years in the public spotlight, I think he actually really, really does love the idea of tariffs.

He loves protectionism and excluding everybody.

He also, of course, just hates everybody who's not a white man with a lot of money.

And so all of these things still line up in favor of him ultimately finding his way back to forcing a catastrophic tax hike on the middle class.

Yeah.

I mean, the reason why this works for him is because he's selling the idea that these are taxes on other countries to his people.

That's why they're able to go out there and sell this as if it's not a tax hike because the people who support Trump don't think it is functionally.

They literally don't understand how it works.

So that's why, like, I think we sometimes don't give Trump enough credit to how well he lies.

You know, he's putting together these two completely different things where he's like, all right, all my administration is going to lie this way, but I'm going to lie directly to my people this way, and they're going to coalesce here and they're going to work together perfectly, which is exactly what happened here.

He's having, like Rich said, six trillion dollar tax hikes on corporate america and they're selling it as if it's a tax hike on the rest of the world but it's not people are cheering for it if you had told me people would cheer for that i would have told you you're out your mind and to put it into perspective the so the the house passed the um the budget resolution framework uh from the senate and that it to give you a sense that includes four trillion dollars in tax cuts so by their own math those those and by the way, that's a massive number.

But if you take the $4 trillion tax cut, add the $6 trillion tax increase, they are actually increasing taxes on Americans by $2 trillion over the next 10 years.

It's not a savings.

You're giving them too much credit.

I saw somebody that tweeted this morning about if the economy, if the if the stock market goes down 10% and then goes back up 10%,

why are you whining about it?

And this guy goes, well, then it's, it didn't actually go back up 10%.

It's at 99, not 100 now.

Like, that's how it works.

This math.

And this guy, he was just completely flabbergasted by it.

I mean, and there's so many other elements to it, too.

Like Trump, he pitched no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime.

If you add all that up, it's $9.2 trillion in revenue loss over the next 10 years.

So even then, like the whole thing doesn't add up.

And that's the thing that we talked about in a previous episode of like Trump is selling selling all this stuff as if he can make it all happen with no details whatsoever.

But now is the time for details and they can't figure it out.

And that's what you're watching right now.

They're just falling all over it themselves, trying to like deliver on some of these things that they could never deliver on.

And now they're living in that world.

And no tax on tips isn't in the budget framework.

They didn't put it in because it's impossible.

No, and it won't be because they can't afford it.

But that's the Democrats' fault.

Don't worry.

That's the Democrats.

Somehow.

Ask any one of these MAGA assholes.

It's like watching a kid run for class president in middle school.

And he's like, oh, we're going to have a pizza party every day.

There's going to be fucking vending machines everywhere, double recess.

It gets elected and can't fucking do any of it.

Yes.

Well,

and the kid who went, yeah, and by fundraising, we won't have to pay for our trip senior year.

Nah, they got laughed out of school.

Fucking nerds.

Goddamn nerds.

Exactly.

So, so let's, but let's talk about that.

So he is proposing something preposterous.

Like, if you take five seconds to look at this, you're you're like, this doesn't make any sense.

Like, honestly, you should just keep status quo if you're going to increase taxes by $2 trillion,

mostly on working people.

How do we start to break through?

Like, we're starting.

I do think we're starting to see some cracks.

But for the listeners, because I get, and I actually had somebody write to me the other day to literally look at a letter.

that they were sending to a friend who they had broken their relationship.

Like

she, she didn't know what to do.

And so she reached out to me and we talked about it.

But like, and it was really more of a divorce of a friendship so that we weren't like in a phase of like trying to solve things.

But I think there's a lot of people who have friends that believe this stuff still, like long-term relationships.

How, I mean, this is a trillion-dollar question.

How do we start?

How do we take advantages of those cracks and make them make them basically like

wider than you could put like a canyon.

One word, and that's inflation.

Everyone in MAGALand, doesn't matter how delusional they are, everyone in Magaland understands inflation.

And with this market instability, the promise of tariffs, companies are going to raise prices immediately, no matter what happens, no matter what Trump decides, because the threat is there.

So the inflation that

he is creating today, just through market instability alone, leave aside whether or not the tariffs happen, people are going to get hit with that.

And people who believe that Joe Biden made the world a terrible place because everything got so expensive and it was all his fault, he's not president anymore.

And there's only so much that Donald Trump can do when

eggs go from $10 to $15 a dozen.

He's not going to be able to blame Biden forever.

He can try.

But at the end of the day, when people cannot buy food, he's going to get blamed.

And to be clear, I think I saw this today or yesterday.

Egg prices have broken a record for the highest that they have ever been.

So if we're playing that game, which let's be honest, the president has little to do with the inflation on that, but they made it a major campaign issue.

Donald Trump said he was going to tame inflation.

Egg prices today, they've been dipping and coming back.

There's lots of reasons, avian flu, all of these things.

They are higher today than they ever were at any other point in history.

And I think you're right, Chris.

I think that the pocket, like it's very hard to argue that he's tamed inflation.

He hasn't.

And he's doing inflationary things.

Even the Fed chair is like, well, I think we see a future where things are good if we don't do basically everything that Donald Trump is saying.

I mean, he said it in a better way, but by the way, the Fed share was put in that position by who?

Donald Trump.

It is his Fed chair.

So

he is backing himself into a corner.

He usually is, he's the slimiest guy on earth.

He always wiggles his way out.

But I agree, Chris.

I don't know if he can survive three and a half years of this

if this is the way it's going to go.

The pile on top of what Chris said.

I totally agree.

It has to be real and it has to be immediate in front of you.

Egg prices is one of those things.

Obviously, the accountability has to stay there.

We have to

unrelentingly hang the accountability on Donald Trump and on congressional Republicans every single day, every single week, and not let that up.

And that's one thing Democrats are terrible at broadly in the Democratic Party is as soon as something is resolved, we go, oh, you know, we didn't mean to hurt regular Americans.

We're working together.

And they go immediately back to this sort of like kumbaya centrist bullshit instead of doing what instead of doing what the Republicans have done, which is continue to beat us over the head with Obamacare, which everybody loves and they're still whining about Obamacare 15 years later.

On top of that, I think it's their jobs.

Because if you look at like when these tariffs inevitably come back around

in whatever form,

what are they hitting really, truly the hardest?

We're talking about building materials, construction materials.

We're talking about metal and wood and electronics, things like that.

Some things that we can't even get here, like Canadian lumber, of course, but other things that are just going to be a lot more expensive or take a lot more time to produce here

i was looking at contractor jobs construction jobs there are 8 million americans right now employed in the construction industry and they drive over they contribute over two trillion dollars to our gdp every year these are people building cabinets putting roofs on houses installing floors in your house painting your house like these are people doing real work with their hands.

They're in the trades.

They are not, they are, they are deeply, deeply skilled in their craft, but they are not college educated.

They don't have to be college educated people.

These are great jobs that you can do and make a lot of money, but you have to have customers buying that stuff for you to build and install.

And these tariffs, when you do it the way he's doing it, right now, all he did was just delay the pain.

Nobody's building new lumber mills on a 90-day delay.

They're just going to sit and wait.

And I'm not remodeling my house.

Nobody here is remodeling their house right now either, because that's going to take six months to lock in and to buy all the materials.

So all of this commerce, all of this, all this activity is just getting paused.

And all of the people who want to do those jobs are just going to have to sit and wait and find out what he does with their careers.

And I want to jump, Chris, or excuse me, I know, Zach, you want to speak, but to that, one of the solutions that they have come up with is that they're going to open public lands for

lumber and for drilling.

So then what happens when those areas get decimated and now all of a sudden no tourists go to them?

You lose that money.

Again, national, I mean, I will say this till I'm blue in the face.

National Park Service, it's a $3 billion budget that returns $30 to $40 billion to the economy every year.

You cut down all those trees.

You're not getting that anymore.

The other part that's hugely important is that we have a affordability crisis in this country.

The only way to get away from the affordability crisis is to build our way out of it.

New York City has done some recent things with changing zoning laws and stuff where we're going to start building more and more here.

But we need to be building millions.

And Kamala Harris, by the way, had a plan for this, millions of new homes across the country because the only way that you can reduce the cost of buying a home is to build more of them.

And with this tariff, you can kiss that goodbye.

It's just not going to happen.

Did you guys see last week that video of Kamala giving that speech where she was like, I didn't come here to say I told you so.

All I got to say is she's a better fucking person than I am.

That's not the first time she's proved that, but it's again now.

I would be up there saying I told you so till I was fucking blue in the face.

She did.

I mean, I she

she was given an she was like looking back on this and seeing some of the internals that the the the Harris campaign had, she she was always losing.

Like she she was down.

Like she was given, I feel so bad.

I mean, I feel bad for the country first, but she didn't have, she was not given a fair shake.

She had great policies.

She had energy.

She just didn't have enough time, honestly.

And I, you know, and I will give Biden, you know, I, I am a huge Joe Biden fan.

I worked in the Obama Biden administration, but like, you know, dropping out when it happened, she didn't really have a, she didn't have a chance, which was really unfortunate.

But she was, she had plans for this stuff.

And I wish that we could have had more time to share them because some of them were very innovative and I think would have made a, made a tremendous difference.

But like we said earlier, plans are for fucking nerds, Tim.

Right.

Goddamn nerds.

She should have just said, I'm going to make it all happen day one.

And boom, we would have been in shape.

And you know what, Luke?

Actually, that is probably a lesson that Democrats need to take.

They can have all the policies in the world.

And we know we have good policies.

And we know our policies are popular.

But I do think that there is something to be said for us taking a page out of Donald Trump's book, which is saying, take no prisoners and just own your lane and just drive it all day long and just attack your opponents for literally everything.

I mean, the fact that Trump is a daddy's boy, you've got $400 million.

He's never built shit.

Like, if you, I would love to ask a Trump supporter, what is the one thing in business that Donald Trump did that you love so much?

I would love to hear the answer to that.

He has Trump power.

Trump casinos.

Yeah, he lost money on a casino.

Oh, yeah.

Those are so well performing.

Trump stakes.

Yeah.

How did Trump stakes?

Trump Airlines, Trump ICE.

All of them.

Trump University not only failed, but had to pay $25 million to the federal government for defrauding the quote-unquote students.

I don't know what they learned in this thing.

Oh, don't forget

the fact that I think he and his kids are banned from owning nonprofits in New York because they defrauded veterans.

Yeah, because they stole money from children, right?

They did.

Yeah.

It got sued into oblivion.

It got shut down.

And then they all got banned from

trying to do good things.

That's how bad they are at doing good things.

You can't try anymore.

Fuck off.

Which, by the way, has anybody ever heard of anyone being banned from running a nonprofit?

Donald Trump has.

Now, now I, yeah, I will say that to give credit,

Letitia James, who's the Attorney General of New York, is great.

And I hope, as Chris was mentioning, I hope that she is still the Attorney General of the state when this term ends, because I don't care how old this guy is.

I want everybody going after him for all of this shit, because because it is so blatantly illegal.

And I hope that the Southern District of New York, which is known as the white-collar crime prosecuting arm of the federal government, I, whoever is the president, I won't support anybody in the Democratic Party that doesn't support going after him after this because they have to.

Yeah.

The question is, will he survive that long?

That's really like I want him to survive.

That's the thing for me.

It can't just be him.

It's the whole fucking deal.

All of them.

The last White House, they were secretly sneaking in like crushed

broccoli and stuff into his food or his cauliflower.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They were like trying to make him eat healthy without his knowledge of McDonald's all the time.

They were using ground up cauliflower.

That diet of lukewarm McDonald's isn't so great for you, huh?

Yeah, they were telling him the cauliflower was mashed potatoes.

Like they were trying to keep him alive.

I hope everyone in the White House is trying really hard to keep him alive for as long as possible.

Because if we are robbed of justice, of him just like, just croaking while in office or after, like, I don't think that national wounds will be able to heal.

No, that would be an issue.

There'll be a conspiracy theorists from here till the fucking second coming if he dies in office.

But I think

this is a message to Democrats who are thinking about running for president that this is where the party's at.

And if you go back and I, you know, I, I'm a huge supporter of President Obama.

Nobody in the financial crisis went to jail.

And I think that was a huge mistake because they, there was a lot of fraud that happened there and a lot of lives ruined.

And we didn't do anything.

Now, there are some political realities of why,

but I think part of the reason that people don't trust Democrats is that we have not lived up to our values.

And so I am not, I will say it right now.

I will not support a candidate for president in 2028 that does not support opening a criminal investigation against the Trump administration on day one.

There's our first day one promise.

Yeah, we'll get these motherfuckers.

I totally agree.

And you look back at the impeachment and conviction, like this is a Charlie Brown in the football moment where even the Republicans who were saying this is the most abhorrent shit I've ever seen, and Republicans leaving the party and who've still not come back.

And yet they still said, don't worry, essentially.

This is now all behind us.

This was so horrific.

Donald Trump will never be a thing again.

And so we don't need to vote to convict because we, you know, let's heal and move on.

And it's like, fuck off.

I have an obligatory fuck Mitch McConnell to add here.

Please do.

I'll always pause for that.

Go, Luke.

Obligatory fuck Mitch McConnell.

Oh, nice.

I mean, I mean, he gave that wonderful speech, right?

Where he criticized McConnell and then he walked away from it.

The other, you know, but, and they're in 2026, we're going to have some races where it's time to like, you know, call in because Susan Collins, who is basically like, she, she only votes against Republicans when she knows they're going to lose.

She's, I'm from Maine.

So like, this is a sore subject for me because she has been perpetuating a fraud on the Maine residents for a very long time.

She's done nothing to stop him.

And we should be doing everything we can to make sure that she is gone in 2026.

The same goes with Tom Tillis, who did nothing.

to stop Donald Trump in North Carolina.

There are already candidates jumping into that race.

I heard the governor Cooper, a former governor, is going to jump in, I hope, which is great.

These people need to be held accountable.

And I hope that people who are listening in Maine and listening in North Carolina start to get active because we need to get those people out of office.

Anybody who has helped these people needs to go.

And I think an army is being built in 2026 and then is going to be in 2028 as well.

But I hope all Democratic candidates that are listening to this realize the anger and the conviction in that anger that we have that things need to, people need to be held accountable.

And I'm not talking about Peter Navarro in condempt of court and going to jail for 30 days.

I'm talking about serious prosecutions.

I don't want to see any of this like, we're going to open an investigation, but it's going to take years.

Fuck that, because we did that in the last term and it didn't work.

Yeah, none of the, we'll let the Justice Department take its turn.

Promise these fucking people something and you will get turnout.

I want a prosecutor as Attorney general.

Nobody.

No prosecutor.

Although, guys, I think by that time, when it comes around, it will be a time for healing for the United States.

Oh, geez.

Don't even fucking start.

You know, looking backward helps nobody.

We have to look forward together holding hands with Peter Navarro.

You know, I'm going to steal an analogy from Trump here.

When you've got cancer, you cut it the fuck out.

Yeah.

No,

Rich is obviously joking.

No, there needs to be real accountability.

I do think that one of Biden's biggest mistakes was picking Merrick Garland to be attorney general.

I know why he did it because Merrick got railroaded by Mitch McConnell.

Fuck that guy.

Fuck that guy.

He felt like he was making a

above politics decision by putting a judge in there.

I will go to my grave saying that Doug Jones was the person that should have been attorney general, the guy that actually prosecuted white supremacists in the South and won.

And

I think that he should be at the top of the list of any candidate.

I mean, I'm sure there are a million other great people, but I think part of the reason that Democrats have failed to this clown show is that we don't do what we say we're going to do.

And you do exactly what Rich said, right?

Turn the page.

We need to be above politics now.

And it's like, no, people don't believe you're going to do the things you're going to do.

And it is a horrible signal.

to show the American public that these rich assholes can get away with absolutely anything.

Yep.

That's what I'm saying.

I mean, 126.

100%.

I'm not even thinking now that you're saying this, like, I don't care who the president is next time around.

I only care about who the attorney general is.

That's the person.

Because

going back to a Democratic administration, we're not going to see the corruption that we have with Pam Boni and Donald Trump right now, right?

I want an independent prosecutor for an attorney general who is just going to go on a fucking warpath against corruption.

Like that, that kind of like fucking campaigning is what I want to see.

So let's dive into, I know we didn't originally talk about this, but we're going to talk about this, but let's dive into it because I think it's important.

So a couple of the frontrunners have over the last few weeks done some things to basically pivot themselves to the center.

We've talked about Gavin Newsom's podcast and platforming

really far right-wing assholes and basically making them seem sane.

Doesn't seem like a good strategy to me.

But we also have to talk about Gretchen Whitmer

saying some somewhat positive things about the tariff war.

I know she's in a tough state of Michigan, though she is term limited.

So she's done.

Do we think this is a, and then the Trump administration used some of her words against her.

So she basically got used.

Do we think this is a smart strategy?

No, it's the stupidest strategy ever.

Cause like, what do we get out of it?

That's the question.

Like, if we're going to be in the center, that's going closer to Trump.

That's a mistake.

The left needs to be full of conviction and aggressive.

The opposite of that is moving to the center.

We need to understand what our moral structure is, understand what we want to accomplish, and aggressively attack it.

That's why people like Trump, because Trump goes, this is what I want to do.

I'm doing it.

I don't care what this person says, what that person says.

I'm going.

The Democrats have to adopt that exact same strategy.

So if they go, well, I don't know.

We got to be a little careful.

You're done.

You're going to lose again to JD Vance or whoever.

You have to come out swinging.

And if you don't, that's it.

You're going to lose.

Because look what Trump is doing.

Trump even realized that in his first term.

He didn't really go all in in his first term.

This second term, he's like, all right, I'm appointing everybody I want.

I don't care what the optics are like.

I'm going after every single policy I didn't go after in my first term.

And people on his side love it.

They're in love with the fact that he's doing this.

That's why his approval rating is so high is because everybody who's not on the left is like, hey, dude's doing what he said he was going to do.

He's being aggressive.

He's actually trying to do something.

Democrats have to mirror that, not the policy, but the approach, 100%.

I like that.

Yeah.

And you could do that without breaking the law.

Exactly.

Like, you can not do what Trump is doing and like breaking the law at every opportunity and being corrupt at every option.

You can simultaneously, ruthlessly prosecute corruption while also forcing through by like it doesn't matter if it's bipartisan, if it's popular policies and you're concerned with nothing but the bully pulpit, you can do a lot.

Yeah, I mean, I think, look,

the Biden coalition did not show up in 2024.

And I think a lot of it is because they didn't prosecute.

And people were like, well,

why, why, what's the point?

If you're not going to like hold these people accountable, why am I going to give you money?

Why am I going to show up?

And I think that was one of the big reasons why we lost.

Here's the question I have, and I don't have an answer, and I really want one.

Who is the person?

Who is the like the actual like realistic Democratic candidate for president who will do the stuff we're talking about?

Like, I don't see anybody where I'm like, clearly, this is the guy or girl that's going to execute this like no holds barred, punch them out plan.

Who is that?

I don't see it.

And that scares me.

So

it's really early, and please don't get into any of this next year, but I think there are a couple of people.

I mean, I don't know if they're going to run, but there are a couple people that I really, I really like.

One of them is J.B.

Pritzker, the governor of Illinois, who when Donald Trump, there were a bunch of Democratic governors that were like, we're going to work with the Trump administration.

And he was like, fuck you.

Pritzker said, go fuck yourself.

I'm not doing that.

I'm going to protect my people.

I'm going to keep them safe.

And everyone ate it up.

So I think that's one.

I mean, I think he has presidential aspirations.

He also has more money than God, so he can do it.

And I know this one will probably splinter the group a little bit, but honestly, like if AOC won the nomination and somehow won, she would go after him.

I'm not saying that that's the right play.

She would go after him.

And I think that's why a lot of people respect her.

I'm not saying that.

And we've talked about Jasmine Crockett.

I'm going to go for her in a chicken star beat.

Yep.

Yeah.

I mean, I was wondering, like, I'm curious what the polling would be like right now with her.

Like, cause I'm on the fence about her just because my politics don't fully align with her, but I mean, against Trump, I'll take anybody.

But like, I'm curious what, like, independence, how they would break Trump versus AOC.

I mean, obviously, Trump can't run again, but I don't know what the answer is to that because it's like a pretty huge go, you know, they're going.

AOC is like Bernie Sanders, but just, you know, not, doesn't have the clout of like 40 years of fighting for all this stuff.

That's what made Bernie so popular.

That makes me nervous.

Yeah, I think it's a good question, but I think, you know, one of the things I think Democrats have failed at is essentially protecting the status quo.

Nobody thinks the status quo is working.

So anybody who's doing that is going to lose.

Yes.

And I think that's part of the reason why there is such an appeal with AOC, because she's basically like, no, this is broken.

I worked in government for five years in federal government.

The government's broken, but we have to put forward policies and plans that fix that, not break it.

And I think that the person that comes in and says, yep, like it is too hard for a private sector person to get a public sector job.

Those people that have like MBAs and all that stuff, we should be welcoming in the federal government.

They can't get the jobs because of the restrictions we've got.

And I think the next person is going to have to rebuild.

Like, I don't even think they're going to be able to rebuild everything that's broken in the first term, this term, but they're going to have to rebuild and they're going to have to articulate a vision in which government can be a force for good, but not from a status quo perspective, but how we rebuild this.

And that's why I like AOC.

And we've talked about this before, but there were a lot of AOCs and Donald Trump voters in her district.

And that's what, that is what interests me.

I mean, I think she's, I, my politics align with her for the most part.

I like her.

but like, the fact that there were people who were like, I like Donald Trump and I like her.

And that to me is really interesting.

Well, I mean, it's obvious why that is, is because the perception, even though it's not reality, the perception is both of them are fighting for working class people, right?

Like AOC is, Trump is not.

But I think those, those same people see the same quality in both of them because they're messaging to working class people.

And I think they both get seen as like a genuine, you know, like

do what they say they're going to do kind of people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, I think when you look at 2024, um,

we, we, I mean, we're all up in our own heads.

Like, we, we've been, we've been in politics for so long, we're seeing all of the things, but what the swing voter, what the average voter, the people we're trying to help remind um have a place in in the democratic party or at least voting for democratic president, um, they just saw change.

And they saw Kamala Harris coming out there with like sort of these centrist, sort of nebulous, um, you know, propositions.

And,

it was just, to your point, defense of the status quo.

And they saw Trump going in there and saying, you know, like grocery, like he learned the word grocery, and then he said it, and then he said it a billion times, billions and billions of times.

And that's what people heard was egg prices, gas prices, you know, you're going to have more money than you've ever had before.

Like, those are the things that swing the swing voters.

And now the pendulum is coming back.

We all know that we all know these metrics, these numbers enough to know that none of these things are going to be playable for J.D.

Vance in 2028.

Like, these are, this is going to be a fucking dumpster fire that he runs from and tries to excuse and says, like, I'm the new face.

Like, this is a new era of the Republican Party.

Like, they will distance.

And, and people don't like that either because that's just saying, well, you're just more of the status quo.

So, we, we will have a lot of things going for us, but what we need most is an unapologetic person with conviction who believes, who believes not just in leftist policy, but in the fact that leftist policy is the best for everybody.

Yes.

And it's not, hey, I am AOC and I'm the best.

It's not, hey, this is the Bernie Sanders legacy moving forward.

Like it's, you can't frame it like that because the people in the middle aren't voting for that.

They're voting for, I don't care if I have a manufacturing job or construction job or what I'm doing.

I want good pay and I want good benefits and I don't want to be fucking priced out of the housing market and out of healthcare.

Those are all things that the Democrats win on.

We just don't message it well enough.

Yeah, you have to communicate it in a way that's the fucking, you know, you got to communicate it almost like Trump does.

I'm going to do this on day one.

You guys are going to feel the effects.

It's going to be great.

You can't say this shit about, I've got, you know, I'll lower this by this amount of percent.

That they don't

right over the head.

They don't even understand it anymore.

I know this isn't like Zach's thing, right?

But I am convinced that the idea of eating the rich, of like over the next two years, as the economy gets worse and everyone sees these candlelight dinners at Mar-a-Lago, while hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans are losing their fucking jobs.

I think a Democrat coming in with the, we're going to tax the fuck out of these billionaires.

We're going to specifically, if you have a membership at Mar-a-Lago, there's a Mar-a-Lago tax now.

Like if that becomes, if someone says that on a fucking debate stage, I have, I believe, and I'm not a fucking, you know, a middle-of-the-road guy, but I think that's going to be an attractive, like on-the-main debate stage thing that's going to swing people who aren't interested in politics like if you've just lost your job while while elon musk is making you know is the world's first trillionaire because he's getting more defense contracts the idea of taxing him into oblivion i think is going to look really attractive i agree i mean the the thing that i latch onto the most is what rich said we need somebody who says that with conviction because i think that was the problem with kamala harris is like all her plans made perfect sense everything sounded great i agreed with almost all of it she She said it like, eh, it was just, I didn't came off like whatever.

And everybody just tuned out.

You got to have like the next Obama, pretty much, who comes in and commands the fucking room.

Everybody wants to hear what they have to say because they have great things to say and they say it well.

That has to be like the critical piece that the next person comes in with.

Well, who knows?

Maybe if Donald Trump decides that he can run for a third term, that means that Barack Obama could run for a third term as well.

I made that video.

Yeah, exactly.

That's why I thought about it.

I don't think he wants to do that.

But like,

Zach.

I think he would, though.

I think he would do.

I think if the circumstances were so extreme that the right literally changed the Constitution for Trump to have a third term, I think that would Obama would be like, all right, fuck it.

I'll save America.

It's fine.

And he'd pop in and do it because he knows

the cool tagline.

Let's save America.

Fuck it.

I'll save it.

You know what?

I think this is a perfect time to wrap this up.

So I want to thank you guys for being here with us.

And also make sure that you are following us on Substack.

We open up a channel every week to talk about this episode.

So if you go to findoutpodcast.substack.com, we will be there.

We're also talking about doing some live events next week, possibly.

So that'll be announced on social channels.

So please follow us at findoutpodcast.substack.com.

All right, guys, thank you for an entertaining

46 minutes.

Wow, we were short today.

46 minutes, and we'll talk to you next week.