Best of the Program | Guest: Carol Roth | 4/7/25

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Was today another Black Monday? That's what we started when we started to record today's show. Flashback to 1987.
See how bad that day actually was. And did it happen today? Also, what's behind the human psyche of thinking yeah i could

outrun a horse and carol roth joins us all on today's podcast all right let me tell you about

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You're listening to The Best of the glenn beck program hello stew glenn how are you panicked panicked panicked things are bad things are they're a little bit better no they're bad that's what we're gonna get today the ups and downs of the market every i gotta tell you uh i'm not concerned so very bad. No, no.
When you're not concerned, it's always the worst possible thing. I'm actually okay through all of this.
I'm not like panicked or anything. That's because you're an evil rich person, Glenn.
No, no. Lost a lot of money last week as an evil rich person.
Yeah, a lot of money. A lot of money.
No, just don't think that it was, I don't know. You know, Jim Cramer's out there.
And Jim Cramer's kind of the opposite of me. Whatever he says.
And, you know. I think this is.
People are always so tough on Jim Cramer. It's BS.
The poor guy goes out there and he makes a bunch of stock predictions. Honey.
Leave alone. Honey.
Honey. Yeah.
Just trying to sell it. Just trying to sell it.
Oh, okay. He's wrong.
He's wrong okay uh he you know bloodbath uh crash black monday asian markets sliding as we speak uh we are now 21 minutes and 26 seconds away from the open from the apocalypse i mean look i don't know who knows what's going to happen we've had what two or three really really bad days in a row, like four-digit drops. Yeah.
You'd prefer to avoid those. I don't think we'll see another whole—like, it would be surprising, even during COVID.
I'm thinking back to the COVID days when, like, there's a real reason for stocks to be dropping, right? Like, we're just turning all of our businesses off for six months. I think this is all fear.
In that period, though, we still saw days of big gains. So I would think that it's going to bounce around wildly is what we're going to see until this thing settles and if it continues to escalate like for example we put all these tariffs on china um they responded with 34 percent tariff of their own like what donald trump promised going into this is that he would if you raise tariffs on us we're going to continue to raise them on you right um i i don't i don't think i don't want that to happen right um but if he if he could if he goes there and then china goes there and we have this escalation i would assume we're going to this is going to last longer so far you have 50 countries that have asked to negotiate uh the tariffs are like um we've re-re-we've rethought this maybe we'll negotiate um vietnam went to zero are we happy with that outcome i'm happy with negotiating tariffs down so you want them to zero i would love them to be at zero you would love them yeah i'd love to i would love them to be at zero that would be so if a country turns them to zero we should go to zero would be your policy.
That would be my hope.

Now, that has not happened so far.

No, I know.

We hope that changes.

I hope that changes.

I hope that changes.

I'm with you.

I mean, I hope that changes.

Their response to Vietnam was like, great.

Now buy more of our stuff.

And this is an interesting thing.

Like, like so Madagascar, for example, this is one that is on our list.

We love their cartoon. It's right.
We import their cartoon animals. Yeah.
Because where else are we going to get talking animals? No, we're not going to get them anywhere. We can't just find them in America.
They're not in America. Right.
I assume they're all bred in Madagascar. Yes.
We keep getting those movies. Talking animal factory over there.
Yes, go ahead. So, Madagascar, we have a trade deficit with Madagascar.
Okay. They make vanilla beans like really well.
We really love, we Americans love their freaking vanilla beans. Yeah.
Right. Okay.
So we take in a lot of their vanilla beans. Right.
You'll be surprised to hear that the people of Madagascar have very little appetite for our high level financial software that we export. They don't want to take any of that.
Wow. In fact, they don't have any money to buy anything that we export.
Really? Madagascar? They don't want to take any of that.

Wow. In fact, they don't have any money to buy anything that we sell.
Wow. So we have a trade deficit with that.
Ah, okay. That seems to me to be very logical.
That one seems to be like one we should negotiate, you know? On our side, we should be like, okay, Donald, Madagascar, we might want to just look the other way on that one. Right, right.
Right, yeah. And so, Australia is the opposite, right?

Where they have, we might want to just look the other way on that one. Right, right.
Right, yeah. And so Australia is the opposite, right?

Where they have, we have a trade surplus with them,

largely because the things that we export, you know, like- They need.

Like, you know, technology and stuff, they need.

The things that they export, which are actually also valuable-

Stuff kangaroos.

Stuff kangaroos.

Stuff kangaroos.

Not talking ones, those only come from Madagascar.

Crocodile boots. Crocodile boots.
Crocodile Dundee actors. Yeah, okay.
That, if they need another sequel. Yeah, we got that.
But stuff like metals. There was an article about this that I was reading recently.
Metals was the example where we're pretty good at coming up with that stuff ourselves. We don't need to export.
It's far away. They're heavy like not a great thing to export so we have a trade surplus with them have we tried tying them to helium balloons no all right just saying that's saying so that's one other part of the negotiation we could buy we could do more i don't know where helium balloons come from but whatever that country that is we have to work with them but the point god help us i hope it'sascar.
A lot of these arrangements make sense. There's a reason why we have a deficit or a surplus.
Sure. And that is...
That's how it's supposed to work. So there shouldn't be for a place like Ireland.
I mean, we buy a lot of Lucky Charms. That's true.
Too many. Too many.
Too many. Maybe we can slow down on that.
And we might, Ireland. Oh, slow down on Me Lucky Charms.
All leprechaun-themed items? Yeah. Anything.
Green beer? All of it. What about the leprechaun movies? Because we've made like seven or eight of those.
I've been those already in my own private little kingdom. Okay.
Yeah. So anyway.
So we are possibly looking. And the reason why they're saying this could be Black Monday, I don't know if anybody remembered Black Monday, happened in 1987, and the Dow dropped 508 points.
That was 22% in one day. So the Dow at, what, 4,200, right around 4,200, that would be looking at almost a 10,000-point plunge today if it was Black Monday.
That would be significant. Yeah.
That would be significant. I don't think that's going to happen.
I don't think that's going to happen. Well, you don't know.
You don't know. Well, it wouldn't happen because we'd close the market.
Because after Black Monday, we're like, we should close the market. When that happens again, maybe we should just go, everybody needs to take a breath, have a seat.
But it wasn't the end of the world right i mean 22 drop it was not the end of the world it didn't happen we you know by the 87 um we were seeing cracks because of greed basically deregulation tax cuts a sense of invincibility we always go through these cycles and uh and everybody started to get greedy and buying stocks and then it just went too high and we had problems with computers and everything else and boom it was out okay so what happened last week five trillion dollar wipeout not a glitch it was it was an actual reaction to trump and his tariffs uh 10 base tariff on all oil imports um you know bigger hits on india and china those are real numbers okay uh great jim kramer said there was a policy nuke i don't know i don't know i guess i just have a different look on this i don't know why i just have a different feel on this one i feel like you know what you know what we're not talking about what we're not talking about is this is the great reset except it's not the great reset it's the great reset of the great reset the great reset we had two ways to go and donald trump never never said it this way but i thought i had articulated this and maybe i hadn't clearly enough and i've been trying to say it for the last few days so let me just be very very clear you had two choices the world as we know it doesn't work so the first choice was what klaus schwab was doing where we could all eat you know bugs uh and they were going to reset everything get away from the free market entirely go all globalism and push everything up to a global government that would reset yeah that would reset our economies it would reset our dollar we would go to a global currency all of the stuff we've talked about for the last five years, that's real. That was happening.
Donald Trump came along and said, don't like that. Don't want to do that.
That's good. That's really good.
That's a good observation. We shouldn't do that.
The problem is you can't just not do that because the problems are real. The solutions, the way the world works now, now no longer works it doesn't work the way it did in 1946 it's not 1946 again so we need to update the system and repair all of the damage that has been done for the great reset because remember Because remember, what was their plan? To manage the decline of the West, just to keep it going enough so nobody really, and then it'll come in one violent shock and everybody will be like, oh my gosh, panic.
And that's when they will finally change everything and make the final switch. That's the Great Reset.
So Donald Trump, we elected him because we didn't want that, right? If you thought you were going to get a replay of 2016, you're mistaken because this time he gets it. Remember we said, you know, the 2020 election was really good.
It turns out because he had time to think and realize what he was fighting and where everybody is and make a plan. This is part of his plan.
And he told us, now he didn't say about the great reset part, but he told us that we're going in a completely different direction. He told Europe that.
He's told everybody that. That's what NATO is about.
That's what all of this stuff is about. He's resetting the system.
So it will be an America first, and anybody else that wants to join us, you know, England first, whatever, we'll all get along, we'll trade, but we're not going to do it the way the globalists have done it. so what we're going through now is the shock to the system of the beginning of the shaking off the calcification of this system and restarting the engine and saying we're going in a different direction.
Throw this thing in reverse. and so all of the gears and everything that has been turning one direction now for almost 100 years, and especially in the last 25 to 30 years with the Great Reset and the WEF and everything else, all those mechanisms, all those gears that have been going one way only all of a sudden are grinding to a halt and reversing.

That's what you're going to feel. Now, I didn't expect this to happen now.
I mean, I was expecting that I would see progress on the border. I was hoping that I would see tax cuts by now.
I was hoping I would see more regulation cuts by now because those two things are vital before you put in the tariffs or at least right after you put in the tariffs. It helps ease this pain.
That's Congress having done their job. I don't know why he's not pounding his fist on their heads right now to get that job done.
But that's what's happening. And this is going to, this is why Donald Trump said over the weekend, what was it? I want to give his quote.
He told the average Americans, hang tough, just hang tough with me. I know it is, it is bad right now.
But this is an economic revolution and we will win. Hang tough.
It won't be easy, but the end result will be historic. That's what I'm hoping for.
I'm not hoping that his tariffs work. I'm hoping for an economic revolution.
I'm looking for the end result to be historic. And it's not just about money.

It's about changing the entire system away from that system, which was pounding America into the ground and managing our decline. Does that make sense to you? It does make sense to me.
You don't buy into it? No, I do not. Really? I would, I think Donald Trump had a, what I expected from Donald Trump.
And again, we may very well see. Lots of things will change.
There's no reason to believe this won't bounce back. And we'll, you know, this is, I'm not at all.
Let's, we still have to see how all this works out. Nine minutes and 38 seconds away from the opening bell.
But I think it's reasonable to look at when Donald Trump re-election and say to yourself, there were some things that went well and some things that didn't go well. Yeah.
And what I would – what I did expect was him to continue with the policies that went well, the areas – like, for example, the economy. I think the economy went really well during his first term.
And I thought we would get more of those policies and that similar approach. And then in something like the border where— He's doing something different this time.
He's not just— Well, that's what I'm saying. I know, but he never gave any indication he was just going to rearrange the chairs at the same table again.
That's what he did last time. He said we had the greatest economy we've had in a long time.
And you could quibble with that back in 2019. We did.
However, to get there, you can change the levers and make things work a little better, but you're still managing a decline until you stop the spending, until you change the fundamentals of how this economy works. You're just rearr i don't remember ever hearing a speech of donald trump saying he was managing the client in 2019 no no that's not no no that's not what he said i don't think he knew that that's why i said in 2020 it was a blessing i don't think he walked in he didn't realize how deep this went Stu we didn't realize when when did we find out about the great reset 2020 that's when we found out about the great reset i mean nobody knew that this is really we didn't know how deep this was it's just hard to i mean look again he he did hit these things i'm not trying to but like if Great Reset is, you know, Richard Trumka's policy platform for the last 30 years.
It's shocking to. I think that's unfair.
I think that's unfair. I mean, it's the same tariffs the guy's been calling for forever.
But that's that's not all that he's calling for. Certainly not.
Hang on just a second. Seven minutes and seconds away panic everyone by the time this program ends uh another family farm in america will have closed its doors maybe for good wow by time today this program is over it's dangerous every farm or ranch we lose is another piece of what makes this country special and that goes away things like hard work independence real food coming from actual farms that are owned by actual people not just corporations and those things are slipping away from us it is time to spring into action and change things for generations american farmers have been waking up before the sun working long until after it sets so you can have food on your table and can have food.
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This is the best of the Glenn Beck Program, and we really want to thank you for listening. Welcome to the podcast this is the best of the glenn beck program and we really want to

thank you for listening welcome to the glenn beck program uh we have an update um the market

bounced back uh after it was released in the news that donald trump may consider a 90-day pause

uh and then we were watching it bounce back and then all of a sudden it dropped back down again, and it, I don't know, lost maybe 200 points. Yeah.
Not sure what happened until we checked the news. It seems like all these media organizations reported

an interpretation from some social media user

of an interview in which the interview was like...

Wait, wait, I just want to track that back down.

Okay.

Of an interview with Trump?

No.

No.

No.

That's a good question.

The interview was with a Trump official.

A Trump official.

Unnamed Trump official or Trump official official? Who is this? So we have Trump, and then we have the trump official unnamed trump official or trump official official so we got we have trump and then we have the trump official and then it's a it's somebody on social media doing an analysis of what that trump official said yeah right right so and then the media picks up on that so they're quoting national economic council Council Director Kevin Hassett. Yeah, okay.
And basically all he said was like, look, I think he was asked by Brian Kilmeade, would Trump consider a 90-day pause? And Hassett said, I think the president's going to decide what the president is going to decide. Well, that means, yes, he's going to consider a 90-day.
That's incredible.

That's how, that's where that story,

we just gave it to you like four minutes ago.

We go off the air and go into the commercial break and then it's all reversed and the stock market goes down.

I think we should probably slow down a little bit.

Yeah, and again, this is no way to run out of your life.

We even brought it up is to discuss why the market moved

and it was why the market moved. So it it's an appropriate explanation i think um but now the white house breaking white house now just says 90 day pause is fake is fake news so it's not there's no pause and so now the market's down again you know i is crazy i will say this glenn and i don't know what you think about this as far as politics go.
Again, taking out of where we end up on all of this. We've had we have really bad economic times before.
Right. COVID housing crisis in 08, you know, the bursting of the bubble of the Internet back in 2000.
And you go back to 87. Right.
That market crash. All those things.
All of all of those though came from what seemed like a outside event right like to the american people yes seem like like you had talked about the housing policies and what led to the housing crisis for years before that and warned about it for years so there were policy uh policies that were directly associated with that but that's not how the american people took that. It felt like it was like, oh, gosh, the housing market just crashed, right? COVID just happened.
This one, I think, to the American people, right or wrong, is going to feel like tariffs caused this. And I'm wondering, I'm worried about how they interpret that.
So let me help you out on that. That's because people did not interpret the stock market and what's going on in our economy is bogus.
Yes, you're right. I think you're right.
It's all this bogus money that the Fed keeps printing and putting into the system with 0% interest rates. It's all funny money.
The stock market is no longer tied to anything real and everybody everybody just bypassed that and went wow things are really good things are really good no no no it was all bogus all of that is bogus okay they sensed the weakness though during biden right like the market went up at times with biden yes but they sensed the weakness they sensed it in other parts of the economy correct i think the optimism for trump's policies launched into another stratosphere but that is our mcdonald's attitude that is uh uh yeah i'd like some tariffs and uh diet coke i mean no it's not a drive-through you're not going to get it by the time you get up to the window. But I think that that's the point I'm bringing up, which is I think that's how a lot of people consume things.
Correct. And I don't think that's going to change.
Look at what just happened. Stock market.
The stock market. People who are supposedly educated, they turn that thing on a dime.

But that's people who are really engaged, right?

And they're overreacting to news that they're seeing.

The average person is not even following this on a day-to-day basis.

All they're seeing is they're seeing that general downturn.

And if that continues with them, I wonder if this is going to be seen.

If this turns into a recession, which it's not yet yet if it turns into a long-term negative consequences it is a it could be seen as essentially trump's fault which means that the entire movement has has problems as opposed to like covid what people saw was okay there's it's china released this virus or it started in china it took over everything no they blamed it on trump because the Trump because the media did. I don't think he took, I mean, I think he won in 2024 because of what people remembered from his economy in 2019.
Yes. Right? They looked at 2020 as some outside thing he couldn't do anything about.
Why did he lose then? The economy was doing really, really well. Why did he lose? They blamed him on- On some stuff, yeah.
Yeah, for COVID, stuff yeah for covid shutting us down blah blah blah you know the stuff that he did that made sense at the very you know the very beginning yeah i i i remember that being more broad an argument than it wasn't no one thought it was trump's fault that the economy crashed because of covid you can blame him and say hey i don't think he should have locked down. I don't think, you know, again, he didn't really do that.
Democrats ran on that. Look at what he's done to the economy.
Right. And they won.
And they won. They did win.
Yeah. They did win.
So I think it's just, I mean, I think that's just the ill-informed again. And that's, I mean, let me give you the survey.
You ready for the survey? Yeah, give it to me. Hit me with it.
Hit me with it. Out of 50 men, if you ask them, in a 100-meter sprint, can you beat a horse? How many say yes? How many say yes they can beat a horse? Beat a horse.
Is it a specific horse? Could it be a horse that's dead? Nope. Nope.
Just a horse generally. Just a regular horse.
So we assume a normal horse running on a normal speed. Not necessarily a racehorse.
No. Just a normal horse.
I can outrun a horse. The correct answer to this would be zero.
Zero. Right.
Zero should be there. That's what it should be.
know a racehorse can run 40 miles an hour don't know if you know this you can't okay usain bolt he's the fastest in a sprint yeah 27 miles an hour right okay horse a little faster okay so uh only two percent out of 50 okay so not that's actually not that bad i mean two percent will say anything that's the right that's the that's the one they say uh is number 15 on the big charts of animals i could beat okay okay number 15 then you get to a zebra okay i'm gonna just pass that off on maybe you don't think zebras actually exist you know

we have none here it is it is strange deer i could outrun a deer a fox an ostrich okay number 10 i can outrun a cheetah a cheetah would be the one i would think would be the lowest number. Would be the lowest number.
Because they're the fastest animal.

Yeah.

Right?

A kangaroo.

A mongoose.

I don't even know what a mongoose is, so I'm going to give that one a pass.

Ready for this one?

I can outrun a swarm of bees.

I mean, no.

Not for a long time.

No, I don't think you can.

I don't think you can.

Have you ever seen that? Why wouldn't people just run if the bees, when you're being swarmed, just run. They can't keep up with you.
You can't outrun bees. No.
I can outrun a house cat. No, I mean, people have seen cats before.
They're fast. I can outrun a goat.
I can outrun a rabbit. A goat? How fast are goats? I don't have that stat.
I don't have that stat. Because I don't, like, I don't, every, all these other ones seem completely absurd.
When I see a, I'm thinking of a goat, they're kind of like climbing the side of a mountain. You know, I don't know.
They don't look that fast. They probably take them.
So would you say, yes, I can outrun a goat? We're getting close to my area here. Really? Really? Okay.
I don't know. A goat.

A rabbit?

No.

Rabbits are just incredibly fast.

Okay.

A hippopotamus.

I mean, a hippo, again.

Oh, my gosh.

I've never raced a hippo myself.

But a hippo doesn't seem like a fast animal.

They're moving pretty slow.

Is it the hippopotamus or the rhinoceros?

One of those is the most deadly animal alive.

Really?

They're fast, and they'll stomp you to death.

I thought it was mosquitoes.

What?

Right, mosquitoes, the most deadly animal alive.

Of course not.

I can outrun a mosquito.

Number two.

Why don't we just tell that to the African nations?

Just be like, let's tell your people to outrun the mosquitoes.

Why don't you run? Number two the African nations? Just be like, tell your people to outrun the mosquitoes. Why don't you run?

Number two, I can outrun an elephant.

Yeah, see, like an elephant doesn't look like it moves quickly, but the strides are large.

You have to factor that in.

I don't have to factor that in.

I just know I can't outrun an elephant.

They're fast animals.

Yeah, but the, I mean, the average.

They're an animal.

They're a giant animal. So are we.
We're all animals. Yeah, not fast.
I, look, I can... I'm not saying I would say that I could outrun an elephant, but I can understand why someone might say that.
Why do you think we invented the gun? Why do you think men invented the gun? We couldn't outrun any of these animals. That's a good point.
Okay, that's the only reason why we're at the top of the food chain is because we're like, oh, really? Take that elephant. I mean, I can outrun an elephant.
Yes, if I have a rifle, I will do that. Because then it'll be dead and you can walk away from it.
Okay healthy um we have a pretty healthy view of ourselves 10 percent uh say that they have actually sorry 28 percent say they have actually been out in the wilds someplace and clocked an animal and thought to themselves i can outrun that uh a tenth of them have uh actually tried to do that uh i don't know got out of their car i was like come on horse bring it on and 11 now out of those showdowns uh mainly with dogs 61 have tried to you know race their dog uh 26 have tried to race their cat i don't i mean you're like how would you even do such a thing 19 have tried to race their cat. I don't, I mean, you're like.
How would you even do such a thing? 19% have tried to race a goat, okay? But 60%, only 60% say, yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't. 26% considered themselves winners.
And here's my favorite. 14% said it was a draw.
It was a draw. I mean, I think we both, I talked to the goat afterwards, and I'm like, you agree, right?

I mean, we finished, I mean, basically we're at the same place, right?

And you have four legs, so, you know, you might have run double the distance, but you have double the legs.

So, we're a draw, right?

Oh, my gosh.

I think we're in trouble.

18% say they would back themselves to beat somebody in an arm wrestling match. Only 11% of women.
Why? Wait, why would only 11% of women? Women are no different than men. Wait, why? Hold on just a second.
Oh, it's ego probably. It's mansplaining that 26% of men say I can beat anybody in a wrestling match, and only 11% of women.
It's probably because of what men have said to women, that you're not strong enough to beat a big, strong guy, right? Because we all know that could happen. 72% of all respondents admitted men are more likely to believe that they could beat an animal than women.

My favorite is

sure, I can

outrun a horse. I can outrun a cheetah.

But

some people, one in

50, believe they can out-swim

a dolphin.

Wow.

Don't know if you know this. They're in the water.
That's their domain. You know? Now, I could outrun a dolphin.
You put one on the beach, I'll beat him every single time. I'll swim him? I don't know.
I don't think. You should probably, you get a nap in.
Get a nap in. Let's readdress this maybe tomorrow.
You're streaming the best of the Glenn Beck program, and you can find full episodes wherever you download podcasts. Carol Roth.
How are you, Carol? You know, Glenn, I told you several times that this year was probably going to be a historic economic year, and we probably see things that we haven't seen before you can imagine and unfortunately i'm uh i'm i'm living in in the middle of all of that right now it's a little surreal today i mean i think maybe we should stop panicking just a little bit i mean it started with it's gonna be black monday uh and then it uh then we had this weird thing about an hour ago where it's released. Donald Trump is reconsidering the tariffs, putting a 90-day pause on it.
Stock market zooms up. And within a couple of minutes, the announcement is made from the White House.
No, that's not true. He never said that.
And it falls back down. I don't know.
Things are happening a little fast. We should probably slow down just a bit, maybe.
Yeah. The challenge for me, Glenn, when I think about the stock market, there are so many people who are worried directly about the stock market.
And I'm not as much directly worried about the day-to-day machinations. I'm old enough.
I've lived through stock market declines. I know the stock market doesn't always go up.
I've lived through corrections. I even, I think, mentioned multiple months ago that I felt that the stock market was overvalued.
I am not so much concerned about that because stocks go down. And like we saw, when good news happens, stocks are going to go back up again.
That's not my concern at all. My concern are what I consider the butterfly effects.
Butterfly effects, you know, is when a butterfly flaps, it swings. And that makes, you know, kind of a, you know, an air current, what happens downstream from that.
So there are two things that I'm very much worried about in terms of that one is that if this happens over a long period of time, the stock market is actually a pretty major driver of tax receipts. And we've talked about this choreography and this math before, that we have these crazy deficits.
The Biden administration left us a horrible fiscal position. And the butterfly effect is that if we do not get enough receipts because of capital gains, because of consumer spending, whatever it is, that we're not going to collect enough revenue into the government.
And that will actually end up exploding the deficit. So that is one of my big concerns.
The second is the downstream effects on Main Street. Main Street, as we know, has been beaten up for five years.
We had the COVID policy. We had the supply chain disruption, we had the labor market disruption, we had historic inflation.
They do not have the wherewithal to weather the machinations and the changes. You know, big companies, they have big balance sheets, they'll find a way to get through it.
But the small companies that have been hanging on by a thread, you know, that is an issue. And so when, A, if they have the direct tariffs, and I have many clients and companies that have come to me that have direct tariffs, people who take it, who import from overseas because they don't have another choice currently, who've seen containers that used to cost four figures, now costing, I'm not exaggerating this, six figures.
And that's going to increase with the announcements from, quote unquote, Liberation Day. Or if you're not directly importing and consumers are pulling back because of the reverse wealth effect, their 401ks are down, they're worried about the economy, that's also going to impact small business.
So I think when we talk about the issues of Wall Street, we really need to bring it home to Main Street because that is the backbone of the economy. So President Trump just tweeted a minute ago, you know, did you see this? No, please tell me.
Yeah, basically, come on, guys, let's pull ourselves together. We're not these people.
Stop panicking. Stop panicking.
Right, but how do you tell a small business who was expecting to pay $6,000 to bring in a container and now has to spend $150,000 to bring in a container and has beaten up for four years not to panic? Unless they're going to come out, if they're going to exempt small business from tariffs and find a way to return it to them. You know, this is not a panic because, you know, there's a machination of stock market.
This is I'm going to have to fire people. I'm not going to be able to pay my bills.
I may not have a company in a few months if this continues to go on. I feel like that's panic worthy.
And I will note, Glenn, that the people who talked about government freedom during COVID, that the government should not be creating barriers for companies, are the same people who are cheerleading small businesses having barriers and saying, well, if we don't like the way you're doing business, you don't deserve to be in business. And it's starting sound like a lot of people who are you know fans of trump and we listen we all want trump to succeed but there are some diehard fans who are starting to sound a lot like leftist bernie bros right now so i i am against you know this i've been against uh tariffs um and always have been uh however i feel as though we this is not a surprise to any of us none of us we knew he was going to do this we also know that uh he is he's actually gunning for the entire global system you know what i mean he's i think the way the reason why it's called liberation day why he called it liberation day is to reflect back to 1945 liberation day when that war was over and we put that system into place that we've been

using since 1945 46 and it it doesn't work anymore okay and so he's reversing esg he is going the

opposite direction of the globalization etc etc and i think he is he's he is churning absolutely everything and i expected it to be ugly he even said i didn't say it would be ugly he said it would be difficult it'd be difficult and i don't think he i don't think people understood everything that he's taking on and i feel as though i am nervous about the effects because i see it too my friends my friends who have small businesses they buy anything and it it's not like they're buying everything from china they may have one part but it's an important part or the only part they can get from that country uh and they have long-term contracts on it so they they're going to have to buy that part whether they like it or not, and that's going to put them under. So I understand that.
I really do. But I'm not sure this is a really long-term thing.
Do you? I think he's playing chicken with the rest of the world. So here's the thing is that you said that Trump said this.
Trump says lots of things, and we've all known to take him seriously, but not literally. So we all had an expectation that he would probably do something with tariffs.
I think that what we didn't expect is that he would do it first. We thought that he would do deregulation, get some of the tax cuts made permanent, do some of those things to juice growth, and then turn the intention.
And so the fact that we didn't have that optimism streak extended before he attacked that, I think that was a surprise. I also think the scope, by the way, I think the scope was a mistake and they're just living with it because they were supposed to be reciprocal tariffs.
A reciprocal tariff would have been, hey, they're charging us 700 percent on rice. We're going to start charging them 700% on rice, or they're charging us 20% on this.
That would be one way to do reciprocal. You could also do a country wide.
Hey, they're charging us 6%. We'll charge them 6%.
They didn't do that at all. They came up with some insane formula that was based on a trade deficit divided by imports that means absolutely nothing.
And I think that, by the way, a lot of people are saying they think that that was a mistake and nobody checked the math on there and now they have to live with it. And I think that's the concern that had this been 10% across the board for everyone, had this been truly reciprocal, you would have a very different tenor that all of a sudden, you know, we're putting 30 and 40 and 50 percent tariffs on countries and really escalating things.
So I think that's an issue. And I also think the communication here needs a complete overhaul because there are a lot of different things that are being said that are in conflict with each other.
And I'm with you. I really hope that this is an art of the deal, that this is, you know, a blunt, blunt hammer approach, which is not my approach.
I would have done a cocktail party or something, but a blunt hammer is a sledgehammer. There's nothing subtle about Donald Trump.
He's a sledgehammer. There's nothing subtle about that.
And hopefully that's the way, but there are people who are making actual like ridiculous arguments that are in conflict with each other. You have some of his spokespeople out on TV saying things like, oh, we're going to raise a bunch of money and eliminate taxes at the same time saying they're going to try to take down trade.
Well, those things are in conflict with each other. We're going to raise a bunch of money, but we're also trying to bring back manufacturing.

Well, those things are in conflict with each other.

There are people like me thinking that this is probably a way to try to refinance the debt.

But that's in conflict with some of these other things that he's doing.

So everything is in conflict.

And sure, if you leave all the options open, you can declare victory much more easily.

But now you have everybody infighting because you have people who are actually arguing really bad policy is good policy. Okay.
So I, again, and maybe I'm giving the president too much benefit of the doubt here, too much room, but I don't think I am because what he does is negotiate. And I know because I know people who have been on his team and they all say the same thing.
You walk into a room with him when he takes the room, he senses what's going on and he can move and pivot on a dime. What you do know is at the end, it will be good for the Trump organization.
OK, and so I think that these all are Trump organization or America. no no no i said negotiating with him you know in in real estate deals okay i think he is negotiating now for america so i'm taking what he how he negotiates okay um for his company and he's applying those same principles now for our country and i think he cares about our country um and so he's walking

into a room and i think all those options are on the table you're only going to get one you're not going to get both you're not going to get all these jobs and all this tax revenue coming in you know what i mean it's going to be one or the other the so the things that are uh incongruent here i think uh is the negotiating room. Let's see which one plays out.
Which one are we going for? Yeah, but it's a little hard for the American people to palette a non-strategy. Well, we're going to get something, right? We'll get some benefit out of it.
I don't know which one. Or if that's the plan, then just communicate it to people.

And listen, if this ends in a week or a couple weeks, and especially if they're willing to pay back these small business owners for the huge amounts that they've had to spend out of pocket, I'd say, great, that was fantastic. But there are so many things that can get damaged in the meantime and the longer it goes on, the more risk it is inherent.
So I think there needs to be. I do believe there's a shelf life of this.
Yeah. I agree with you 100%.
And I don't mean to be giving him too much leeway here. I think I'm being actually fair.
I mean, I told the story last week of he's going in to sell the Plaza Hotel. Everybody has got Japanese people coming in.
Everybody that is on his team, they're focused on the Plaza Hotel. Five minutes in, without saying anything to his team, he pivots and like, forget the Plaza.
I want to talk to you about this. And everybody on his team is freaking out.
Like, we've got to sell the Plaza Hotel. What are you doing? But doing but he said after the meeting i knew i could tell they're not going to buy the plaza so i pivoted here instead of a wasted meeting i sold them this and i don't think that's wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt because that's the way he shoots from the hip that i hear i hear let me just let's just take a step back on central planning though for a second and and yes and we're again we're all on his side we're all rooting for him we're just discussing if this is the best tactic the issue is the central planning even him sort of being able to do this what happens Glenn if you know this even even if it doesn't turn out badly but let let's say whether it's four years, eight years, 12 years down the road, we get in a new administration and they want to do things completely differently.
They say, well, that was the Trump way and we don't like it. And now we're going to say X, Y, Z.
And now every business now needs to go and roll and change. Businesses cannot operate like this.
Businesses have already decoupled from China because we were told China bad, and now they're getting punished again. So it's very challenging when we have a government that has that much power to put up these barriers.
I would rather do this with incentive. I am absolutely willing, because I did this last week.
I said this last week. You know who I have a problem with is congress this is congress's territory this is not the president's territory the minute congress wants to reclaim their their duties and their power i am all for it i do not like the government giving more power anybody giving more power to the administrator no no no no no no no but where the hell is congress where the hell is congress they are they are the ones that are making this giant hole congress should have said right at the very beginning okay hang on just a second we're going to pass tax cuts we're going to we're going to pass the regulation you don't have to do that sir we're passing the reins act that gets half of the regulation already, maybe more than half.
And that's our purview. But they're not doing it because nobody in Congress has the balls to do what Donald Trump does.
It doesn't mean I like it. And it doesn't mean that I want somebody to, you know, continue this in the next administration.

We're setting up some bad precedent.

But it requires Congress to take their power back. to continue this in the next administration.
We're setting up some bad precedent,

but it requires Congress to take their power back.

So where do you think Scott Besson is, Carol?

It's a really good question.

He certainly has been on some of the shows

and he has been sticking to the party line. And I think that, you know, that's one of the challenges when you're in an administration that has, you know, a lot of power at the top is that, you know, you have to know your place.
And so, of course, he is not going to go against whatever the president's wishes are. There have been some rumblings that there are divisions kind of behind the scenes that,

you know, Besant and Hassett want a little bit more of a focused and, you know, lower

tariff approach and that, you know, Lutnik and Navarro are the ones that are really pushing

on this.

So I think that there is some internal conflict and we're seeing that play out.

And unfortunately, I think at the end of the day, it's going to be Trump's call.

I don't think any of them are going to go against what the president is.

I don't think any of them are going to go against what the president is. So I have now less than a minute, but I have to ask you, this I think is the best cabinet I've ever seen in my lifetime.
And especially the people on the economic advisors, the people you just mentioned, all really, really accomplished and quite brilliant. Well, I'll say that I think some of them are very accomplished and brilliant,

and I think that maybe we don't have the same, but I'm not going to be the one who's going to get into that on air.

That can be a private conversation.

Okay.

I mean, I don't care.

If you want to get into it, we can get into it.

I don't really care.

But, Carol, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
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