Give Us the Epstein Files, with This Caveat | Guest: Tristan Harris | 7/24/25

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Hello, America.

So.

Again,

something has happened overnight that I have to say, well, never seen that before.

Yep, it's going to be one of those days.

We begin in 60 seconds.

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Hello, Stu.

Glenn,

welcome.

How are you?

Oh.

Well, I always love it when there's a day where you're like, never seen that before.

You mean every day?

Every day?

Every day.

I get up every day and I'm like, oh, what is it we're going to see today?

If this was just a TV show, you know, that we were all watching, it would be great, wouldn't it?

I know it wouldn't.

It would be on, it would be, it could be like, oh, come on, this isn't real.

This is so

they never do that.

Never do that.

It would never happen.

Right.

Okay.

So, I just want to read.

I just want to read a filing that was was filed yesterday in the Superior Court of the state of Delaware demanding a jury trial.

Here's the complaint.

In March 2024, Candace Owens, a right-wing podcaster, told the world she would, quote, stake her entire professional reputation on the fact that Brigitte Macron, the First Lady of France, is in fact a man.

That's the first sentence.

That's the first line.

I love this.

I love this.

Since then, Owens has used this false statement to promote her independent platform, gain notoriety, and make money.

Owens

disregarded all credible evidence disproving her claim in favor of platforming known conspiracy theorists and proven defamers.

And rather than engage with the President and Mrs.

Macron attempts to set the record straight, Owens mocked them and used them as additional fodder for her frenzied fan base.

But she didn't stop there.

Retaliating against the Macron's for the audacity of sending her a retraction demand, Owens helmed an eight-part podcast series entitled Becoming Brigitte, the series.

Accompanying ex-posts throughout the series, Owens and her entities

endorsed, repeated, and published a series of verifiably false and devastating lies about the Macron on which this complaint is based.

These are outlandish, defamatory, and far-fetched fictions, including that Mrs.

Macron was born a man, stole another person's identity, and transitioned to become Brigitte.

Also, that Mrs.

Macron and President Macron are blood relatives committing incest, that President Macron was chosen to be the President of France as part of a CIA-operated MK-Ultra program or similar mind control program.

And Mrs.

Macron and President Macron are committing forgery, fraud and abuses of power to conceal these secrets

this was filed by the Macrons

against Candace Owens in the state of Delaware

which I just have to say

I love this story

I love this story

I love this story because it just allows me to go, and you thought your day was insane.

Here's the president of France responding to Candace Owens thinking you're going to get her to shut up.

You've just made this a global story for a very long time now.

And you're not going to win, President of France, because we have something called the First Amendment.

You are a public figure.

You are a

public politician, and your wife is a public figure.

You could say pretty much whatever you want,

and you're not going to be able to stop her from having her opinion.

Yeah,

is this just a complete misunderstanding of the way the law works in the United States?

Is that what this is?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It had to have had American lawyers on it.

Well, American lawyers, though, they'll take

a bunch of money from the president of France.

Sure, we'll file that.

You're right.

But I mean, it's really

super hard to come up with a libel conviction, a defamatory conviction of a president, a public figure that doesn't even live in the United States.

I can't even think of how many ways this would be difficult to achieve a victory on, right?

So

they say, and this is maybe where they have a chance.

They say Owens published the series and related ex posts with reckless disregard for the truth.

That's the key.

That's the key standard.

That's the key.

Reckless disregard for the truth.

So if she has been saying, you know,

other people have brought this up and

the Macron's

have won defamation claims in court, you know, for the same thing.

So they've won this.

Here?

No, in France.

Okay.

In France.

So

they've won this.

If she's not saying, here's the other side,

and they've won this.

However, let me show you this.

As long as she is

balancing it to some degree, so she's not just saying, and everybody knows it,

and nobody's ever stood up against it.

I mean, I don't know how

to listen to the podcast.

I would doubt that she's

I would think she probably is saying stuff like that.

Nobody knows it and nobody doubts pretty smart.

But anyway, but yeah, I don't.

Anyway,

here's what it is.

This is just so fun that

the president of France has to file this.

Now, let me give you my speculation.

This is not proof of anything.

This is just common sense

observation.

Do you remember when Macron was at the top of the stairs of the airplane and she just reached out and just punched him in the face?

And he was like, hey, we're just joking around.

No, you weren't.

No, you weren't.

At least she wasn't.

You might have been.

She wasn't.

Okay.

I think this was filed because she was like, you're not going to have any

great loving with me, young man, unless you stop this from happening in America.

Boom, and hits him in the face.

I think this is a guy like my wife is making me file this.

Complete and total speculation on your part also seems completely plausible.

Yeah, I mean, again, I'm not saying that that's what it is.

And I don't care if they're going to sue, please sue me.

Please sue me.

But

it's just my speculation

that

that's probably what happened.

Right.

She is, first of all, and let me say this to candace candace

why do you even have to go there and i i know you think it's a truth or whatever but listen is it not bad enough that this woman is the jeffrey epstein uh of france

i mean yes she wasn't grooming thousands of people but she groomed one you know what i mean it's like then this is pretty much known right this is not uh there's no speculation on this no there's no speculation I don't know.

I don't remember the story.

The story is horrible.

Okay, she's a teacher.

He's at some boarding school, and he falls in love with her, and she falls in love with him.

Now, if I'm not mistaken, he's 15 and she's like 40.

15

and she's 40.

It's France, though.

You can't.

No, there's no laws in the future.

No, no, no, wait, wait, wait.

Even the open-minded French were like,

the dad, the mom and dad pull him out of it once they find out,

because they thought Brigette was somebody his age that he was dating.

Then they find out that's your 40-year-old teacher at the school and you're like having sex.

And

so they immediately pull him out.

And Brigette says, you are not going to stop me from loving your son.

You can't get rid of me.

We love each other.

And it's true.

Now he goes back after he moves out of the parents' house or he's, you know, now he's 18.

He goes and seeks her out.

He goes and seeks her out for some of that oven that he's still getting a piece of.

Anyway.

Very disconcerting.

Right.

And remember, this disgusted the French, which is hard to do.

Didn't they welcome Roman Polanski like, we got to give you some awards?

I mean, they don't have

standards.

It's not something they're good at.

You know what I mean?

And

when the French are like, okay, that sexually is just too far,

that's...

Crazy.

Yeah, the whole situation is very strange.

One other part of this that I find very

interesting is, I don't know, I feel like your idea that you're going to win a lawsuit in the United States of America against a public commenter commenting on a foreign president.

I mean, like, it just seems incomprehensible to think you're going to win that case.

But what I don't even think it's about that.

What it seems to be about after looking at the documents is they want on record their best case that she's a woman.

Well, listen to this.

Listen to this.

Parties and relevant non-parties.

This is in the complaint.

Okay.

Eight.

Plaintiff Emmanuel Macron is a French citizen.

President Macron has been the President of France since 2017.

Prior to being elected, President Macron served as the Minister of Economics, Industry, and Digital Affairs and Deputy Secretary General to the President.

President Macron is married to Brigitte Macron in 2007.

Nine, plaintiff.

Brigitte Macron is a French citizen, the spouse of the current president of France, and a woman.

They didn't say he's a man.

No.

And a woman.

Could you put that in the document?

She's a woman.

She's a woman.

Oh, my gosh.

But it goes through.

It shows photos of her as a child.

It shows birth announcements of like other relatives that say, and he has a sister named

Brigitte or whatever.

They go back and document every step of this, every piece of evidence.

They show the announcements from

the childhood.

They red circles around photos.

It's insane the detail they went to to try to prove this, which is just comical.

It's just

so much fun.

It's just so much fun.

Because it's happening to a politician who I don't care about.

I don't care.

You burn France to the ground, burn France to the ground.

I think it's a mistake, but burn France to the ground.

You know what I mean?

They're doing a good job of it.

Nice Nice areas of it.

Yeah.

I mean,

I have nothing against.

Well, I can't say that categorically, but generally speaking, I have nothing wrong with

no axe to grind with France.

They were helpful once, 250 years ago.

That's true.

So, you know, I have nothing to say bad about France, but

please, this is hysterical.

Hysterical.

Hysterical.

I mean, but it's happening here too.

Michelle Obama.

I mean, what is it about us that we're like Macron married to a man?

Barry married to a man.

It is an interesting thing that we do

as a society.

I've never seen that before.

Two presidents in the world now, the speculation they're married to a man.

Well, and it draws some attention to the

insinuation of this lawsuit, which is to say that if she were a man that had transitioned to be a woman, it would be so bad.

Right?

Like, it's like insinuating that this is a bad thing, but I was told by all of these people that it was wonderful if you were to transition from a man to a woman.

It's the greatest thing of all time.

It's this celebrating who you are and your true identity.

That is the thing that I think...

proves my point that he's getting smacked in the face every day.

Tell people I'm not a man.

Because in reality,

she does see it as an insult.

They're not allowed to admit that.

Right.

And it's no big deal.

What difference does it make?

Yeah, who cares?

Yeah.

Like, I mean, honestly, like, you know,

we have all sorts of important conversations about whether children should be having surgeries.

I do not care at all

if it was an actual dude at one point.

Don't care.

Don't care.

Let me tell you something.

If you were a man and you admitted it, we'd all be forced to say you were beautiful.

Right.

So you'd solve that problem.

Right now, you're just an ugly old hag.

Is that wrong to say?

Wow, I just, you know, I've

just filed in Delhi.

A, a mannish,

ugly old hag.

Whatever, right?

But, but, like, that was a groomer.

You know.

You know, think of it.

Think of poor President Macron.

He's like,

you know, you're not going to get a slice of my pie tonight.

He should be saying, thank God, Candace Owens.

Thank God.

Thank God.

I got a way out.

He might be the one leaking these rumors on this point.

Oh, my gosh.

He is.

But wait, I want to know.

Is it an insult?

The left has told us it is a wonderful thing.

You're finding your true identity.

Is it an insult to call someone who is a woman, born a woman, and is still a woman, is it an insult to call them a man?

You keep telling us it's not.

You keep telling us it's bad to notice it.

You keep telling us it's bad for us to say they were a man at one point.

Why would you be any basis in their world for a lawsuit claiming that someone got it wrong?

It's a wonderful gift.

Unless you're a 70 or an ugly mannish 70 year old hag that just can't handle

just can't handle the insults they're going to file a lawsuit against you in delaware with all the pictures that prove she's not ugly

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10 seconds and back with

more.

So

here's an interesting article today from the Federalist about the Cold Play thing, because I know you're Stu almost boycotted the show.

I think it was on Monday.

He came back and he was like, more cold play talk.

So there's this great story in the Federalist.

The Cold Play incident didn't fit a certain mold of story the left likes to tell, which is why everyone on the internet could agree.

When the Cold Play concert busted two cheating spouses, the Internet united under one unexpected theme.

And what is that theme?

What was the theme?

I think this person just nailed it.

What was the theme?

What did we we all unite on?

I mean, I would, I guess

to don't, you know, commit adultery and, you know.

Right.

Which leads you to say marriage is sacred.

The sanctity of marriage, the sanctity of vows.

Okay.

Everything that the left is saying they're not for, even the left is actually for that.

You know, you asked me on Monday, what is this really about?

And I gave an answer, but

I think this is actually

more of a correct answer.

I thought you were going to say that United, that you shouldn't go to cold play concerts.

Right, especially with a dude that's dressed as a woman.

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Hello, America.

Hello, Tud.

It's Thursday.

Got a great program coming up for you.

Not today, but one of these days it'll be a great program.

We're working on it.

We're working on it.

Today, just suffer through it with us.

There's a couple of things.

You know, the Macron thing,

you know, I think Stu has a really good point on

why is this such a bad thing to say that

she's a

because it's totally fine if you're a man or a woman.

I guess maybe it's just because to be clear, that's not my point.

I'm just saying.

No, no, no, but I mean, it was one of your

points and not

one of your observations.

Right.

It's in their world.

Yes, in their world.

That should be not, this shouldn't be an insult at all.

It should be wonderful.

Yeah.

And yet, somehow or another,

it's really not.

Everything that the left is

doing,

for instance,

we were just talking about,

what was the story I did right after that, Sarah?

It was

what?

I can't hear you.

Coldplay?

Oh, yeah, cold play.

The other was the marriage.

Marriage.

Marriage is what brings us together.

Today.

They all say marriage is not that important, yada, yada, yada.

But they don't mean that either.

Look at the cold play thing.

So

the reason why, and you know they don't believe it, they know they're not right on this, because they force everyone to just agree or shut up.

If you don't agree, don't say it out loud or they'll come and get you.

Okay.

So you know that, because when you believe something, do you want to force everybody to shut up?

No, because you know, you know it's true and you'll fight to the death that it's true and it's just the way it is.

I'm not going to force you to shut up about, you know,

Macrone is a beautiful woman.

No, she's not.

She may be a woman, but she's definitely not beautiful.

You know, now, Big Mike, that's definitely a man.

But,

you know, you don't, why force people into it?

It makes no difference.

It makes no difference.

Why say marriage is, it doesn't matter if it's between a married woman, and it's not sacred, it's not a, and then everybody, when they see that cold play thing, they're immediately going, wow, that's bad.

Universally, everybody goes, that's bad.

You're told to shut up and sit down if you say marriage is sacred.

Shut up and sit down.

They don't believe it themselves.

Otherwise, why would you have to have the

goon squad come out against anybody who is saying

anything different or who won't toe the line?

It's really an amazing thing.

And we see,

we're starting to see all of their little tricks, all of the things

that they've done.

This Tulsi Gabbard thing, first of all, you know, they're saying, well,

none of this is new news.

No, you're right.

Most of it is not new news.

We had it.

However, however, it had been denied because we didn't have all of the evidence of it.

So it was a conspiracy theory.

Now it's not a conspiracy theory.

Now it's conspiracy fact.

And they're saying now, where they used to deny it, now they're just saying, it's old news.

Everybody knew that.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

What?

Where's the middle part of that story?

Correct.

We never get to the middle part.

Never.

We always get to, it's not real and it's old.

Where's the part where it's real and it matters?

We never get there.

Never get there.

Never get there.

And the reason why, even if this was all known,

what's being released now, and I showed it last night on TV.

And if you missed it, you can find it on Blazor.

You can find it at my YouTube channel, youtube.com/slash Glenn Beck.

What was released yesterday and last week is not just about what Barack Obama did on, I think it was December 9th.

Okay.

It's the entire grand conspiracy.

It's showing the pattern.

It's showing, oh my gosh, these people did this.

And then, forget it, that might be old news.

And this one might be old news.

And this one might be old news.

And this one.

But what's not old news is, oh my gosh, look, they all line up.

to be a grand conspiracy.

And that's the point of all of the stuff that Tulsi is doing.

It never stopped.

It started back then, and they got away with it, and they kept doubling down on it, and kept using the same people and the same tactics over and over and over again.

So, what's new is not necessarily all the little train stops.

What's new is it's on the same train track.

It's one starting place and one destination on the same track.

There's no switching of trains or anything.

It's the same track.

So that shows that it's consistent conspiracy to collapse or to discredit Donald Trump and collapse his presidency.

And they're still trying to do it.

And the other thing that is in this from yesterday that I didn't see a lot of people talking about was Hillary Clinton's health.

It talked about because somebody hacked into the DNC records, which they had, what was the name of it,

the private organization that

looked at the DNC

hacking.

It wasn't investigated by the FBI.

Why wouldn't you have had the FBI

look into who attacked the DNC servers?

Especially if you're on the left.

Why wouldn't you have the, you control the FBI at that time.

It's all their people.

Why wouldn't you have them look into it?

Why did you have a private crowd strike?

Why did you CrowdStrike look into that?

And then when they said, oh, there's nothing there, we can't really figure out, why didn't you call in the FBI then?

The FBI never looked into that.

Why?

That is a huge breach, right?

Yeah.

So why wouldn't you?

Especially because coming from a foreign adversary.

Correct.

You think they'd be very interested in such things.

So what we find out is now yesterday, we find out that

in the hack, what Russia knew because of the hack is that the DNC members at the top level were concerned about Hillary's health, which again

is another thing that everybody denied.

Do you remember, can you play Cut 15?

This is Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail, and she is walking to her van.

Remember this?

So the van pulls up, big black van.

She was speaking.

I think this was down at the 9-11 thing.

I mean, she looks like a corpse.

She's being held up.

She looks.

Look at that.

Look at it.

It legitimately looks like weekend at Bernie's.

Yep, it does.

They let go of her.

She goes down to the ground.

Everybody is covering it up.

There's something wrong there.

She's leaning like a board against a concrete pillar.

Yeah.

And there's clearly something wrong.

And what did they say?

You know what?

It was much worse than I remember.

Oh, she's, there's nothing wrong with her.

There's nothing wrong with her.

She was just hot.

Well, really?

I mean, it could be.

Could be.

It doesn't look like it.

Could be.

But also, that's something to note.

That's not a minor thing,

big deal.

So here's Tulsi on what the Russians were saying about her health that we found out yesterday, Cut 14.

The report goes into great detail about the information that Russia and Putin had, which on Hillary Clinton, which included possible criminal acts like secret meetings with multiple named U.S.

religious organizations in which State Department officials offered, in exchange for supporting Secretary Clinton's campaign for the presidency, significant increases in financing from the State Department.

They also had documents that showed the patronage of the State Department to State Department employees who would go and support Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

There were high-level DNC emails that detailed evidence of Hillary's, quote, psycho-emotional problems, uncontrolled fits of anger, aggression, and cheerfulness, and that then-Secretary Clinton was allegedly on a daily regimen of heavy tranquilizers.

Then-CIA Director Brennan and the intelligence community mischaracterized intelligence and relied on dubious substandard sources to create a contrived false narrative that Putin developed a quote-unquote clear preference for Trump.

Got it.

So do you hear what happened here?

They had reliable sources from foreign intel, from Russia, that the Russian intelligence agency had that information.

Okay.

Extraordinarily dangerous.

Everything they said was happening with Donald Trump.

They had that in a locked, verifiable source.

They disregarded that and went to the Christopher Steele files, which wasn't locked, which had been discredited by the FBI, and said, no, look what they have on Donald Trump.

Then they said there's nothing wrong with her health.

The Russians felt there was something wrong with her health.

Whether there was or not, I don't know.

But again, hide the health.

Hide the health.

And what did they do?

They gave it to somebody who has worse health.

And you know why I think?

Because Hillary wouldn't have been just a meat puppet.

Joe Biden was a meat puppet.

He was a puppet to, I now believe, Barack Obama.

I believe that Joe Biden, the third term of Barack Obama, was Joe Biden.

And all the things that Barack Obama had to do, that he had to compromise on to be able to keep his image and to keep his poll numbers up, he didn't care.

If Joe Biden, he would just, no, no, Joe, this is good.

And then not even tell him.

I'm convinced towards the end.

He didn't even know what he was signing, what he was doing.

and they don't mind they didn't care because he was going to be dead probably in office you know and then they'll replace him with another meat sock in kamala harris

it's true a meat sock that's what she that's that's what they were meat socks

uh and and uh and hillary clinton wouldn't have done that she would have run her own show she wouldn't have been run by barack obama and susan rice

which barack obama and susan rice i did the chalkboard last last night.

And Stu, the people that were in that meeting where Barack Obama said, okay, this is what I want,

the people that were in that meeting, it's the who's who

of every scandal that we have seen perpetrated on the American people and

on the right and Donald Trump since 2008.

It's the who's who.

The only one missing really is Anita Dunn.

I mean, well, and she

was very much seen as

an insider in the Biden

cover-up.

Right.

So she was very active, just maybe not in this particular realm.

But you look, it's the same.

Remember when we were

uncovering the progressive movement at the very beginning?

And we're like, wait a minute, George Soros is everywhere.

All these people are the same.

Bill Ayers, he's everywhere.

What is Cass Sunstein's wife's name?

Powers.

Powers.

Yeah, Samantha Powers.

She's everywhere.

And we realize it's a very small group.

They just have a lot of power.

That's who is in that room.

All these people, with the exception of a few, all these people that have been at the basis of everything.

I think you saw the December 9th is the who's who.

of

the scandals.

It's the who's who of the deep state.

And if you don't go and round these people up or at least get them out and discredit them and get them out and away from government, you're never going to change anything.

Because these guys, they just leave office and then they just come back and they have their roots and they're just doing it from behind the scenes.

Clapper hasn't stopped.

Brandon hasn't stopped.

They're still doing it.

They're now running the press op.

And it kills me.

The press,

let me take a quick break and come back I want to show you something that the press is now doing

that shows

they never learn never back in just a minute first let me tell you about lifelock every good heist movie starts the same way a crew of professionals complicated plan and a target with somebody who never sees it coming I have some bad news in this version you're not the master thief you're the one being robbed some guy sitting around in a dark basement halfway around the world just scored your social security number and you're and his buddies are in charge of buying gift cards with your credit while another one's filling out a loan application in your name and you're stuck wondering why your bank account suddenly looks like a ghost town It's a high-tech job.

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Glenn

Beck.

Do you ever open your mailbox during tax season and spot a mortgage interest form for a loan that you never took?

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Okay, let me show you now.

What we learned yesterday in the files that were released by Tulsi Gabbard is that Brennan,

Clapper, all these people

have been lying forever.

They were lying forever.

And you've known that.

And so has the press.

And we said they never ever apologized.

They never said, my gosh.

And I've said over and over again, if I was listening to them and they had lied to me like this, I would be so pissed, I would burn them.

Okay.

But they're not.

Listen to this.

This is CNN's national affair correspondent yesterday on the Tulsi Gabbard revelation.

Listen.

We have no idea.

I mean, this is hardly information that we should even be repeating.

Never mind that it's, you know, some

years after the fact, eight years more than that after the fact, but also just to look at the source.

But look, this is

what this White House wants to talk about.

And

I'm not sure that we should spend that much more time on it, frankly.

All right.

So this is hardly information we should be repeating.

Let me show you.

They don't learn.

Pull up the full screen from the tweet.

Pull it up full.

I can't read it like that.

Can you just pull it full?

Yeah.

We don't want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories.

We don't want to waste the listeners and readers' time on stories that are just pure distractions.

NPR

regarding Hunter Biden's laptop.

Now,

who told them that?

Brennan Clapper.

Who told them this now?

Brennan Clapper.

It's the same people

over and over.

That's why this is new information because it's a tying together, officially tying it all together and saying, look, this is not a conspiracy.

This is a grand conspiracy, fact,

not theory.

This is Glenn Beck.

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I'm nervous.

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This is

the Glen Beck Program.

Hello, America.

Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program.

The president had a big day yesterday on AI, big meeting in the White House on artificial intelligence, which he said he didn't like the word artificial.

He didn't like anything artificial.

And I would like to remind him, Diet Coke.

But it was all about fast tracking data centers and also energy.

It was a big day yesterday.

We'll talk about that probably next hour.

This hour, I just have to tell you a couple of just bizarre stories and where our country is headed just from an example of California.

There's an oil refinery that is now,

I don't know, they don't have an owner for it because the owner's like, I'm out, I'm out, I can't do business in California.

It's like the in-and-out burger, but we can't do business in California anymore.

And now they're like, well, somebody's got to run the oil refinery.

You think so?

Maybe, maybe everybody's leaving because of your policies, but they still don't get it.

More on that and so much more in just a second.

First, let me tell you about real estate agents I trust.

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I mean, it's a horror show sometimes.

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It's high stakes, it's tense, expensive, exhilarating, panic inducing.

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Hello, Stu.

Hey, Glenn, how's it going?

Well, we've already covered the big news that

the president of France, Macron,

is suing Candice Owen here in the United States because he insists his wife is not a man.

And

it might be worth a couple of hours, but I don't think we're going to do it today.

Maybe we'll spend more time on it.

It's just this hysterical.

You have to read.

We posted it glennbeck.com.

Don't read the the stories.

Read the actual filings.

It is comical.

It's hilarious.

It is like legitimately their big case.

It's like they did a, it's like they got a talk show and did a big monologue on like, actually, no, she's not a man.

It's

very

bizarre.

Yeah.

We can prove it.

She's not a man.

It's hysterical.

Hysterical.

You got to read the whole thing.

And let me stop here on this since I say you have to read the actual filing and not a news story about it.

Not in this particular case, but in other cases, somebody asked me, might have been used to, that said, why do you think they're putting up such a stink about releasing the files?

I can guarantee you that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files.

We said that at the very, very beginning.

Years ago.

Even more recently when Elon came out with his tweet.

And we all said,

of course he's in the files.

He was friends with this guy for a long time.

For a long time.

But before people knew.

Right.

And he broke up with him, if you will.

Before his initial arrest.

Right.

Before the initial arrest.

And he broke up with him because he's like, hey, you treat women like crap.

Okay.

So, yeah, he is in the file.

I could almost guarantee it.

So why wouldn't you want that out?

For the same reason he's saying,

you know, there's a lot of people in here whose names are going to be involved who may not have done anything.

That's not just protecting him.

You know what that is?

That's a comment on us.

Because here's my stance on this: the whole thing should be released.

Every bit of it should be released.

However, there is a competing argument in my own mind that says, not responsible enough for that.

What do I mean by that?

This system of our government is wholly inadequate for an immoral and non-religious society.

And I don't mean, whoa, our society's got to go to church.

I mean you have to have the underpinnings of things like the Ten Commandments.

Don't lie.

Don't cheat.

Don't steal.

Don't smear your neighbor.

We don't do any of those things.

Okay.

We can't even do 10 simple laws.

Okay.

And they're all good safety tips.

I don't don't know if I renamed all of these things, if I didn't use the religious context,

every American would say, yeah, well, that's a good thing.

Hey, you shouldn't worship your car.

Yeah, that's a good thing.

You know,

you shouldn't look at the image of somebody and go,

that's who I serve.

That's my God.

No,

bad thing.

Don't cheat on your spouse.

Don't lie.

Honor your mom and dad.

All of these things.

We'd all agree.

We can't do that as a society.

We can't even agree on

eight of the ten.

So how are you going to remain free?

Let me bring this back to the Epstein file.

All of this information should be public.

It should be out.

There should be no secrets.

Unless it is in our national interest.

And I don't mean, well, it could go badly for for the CIA.

Good.

Let it go badly for the CIA.

If they did something wrong or they were doing something nefarious or they were doing something that the American people just wouldn't like, I want that exposed.

Okay?

But are we responsible enough to have all of the information?

I contend, no.

That doesn't make me say, I'm still saying release it all.

But I'm telling you, the consequences will be ugly.

It's going to be a mess.

A mess.

That's okay, probably, because we're talking about

if there's information in there that the American people need.

I think we are approaching a place to where

it's not just a mess.

And here's why I say that.

What do you mean?

So

you get all this information.

How is this information going to be used?

Of course, Donald Trump's name is in there.

Is Donald Trump,

did he, was he messing around with young girls?

No.

No.

Is there even an accu?

I mean, there's a lot of things they've accused Donald Trump of.

Is there even an accusation that he was interested in underaged girls?

No.

And all they're saying is he's in the file.

Well, there's going to be a lot of people in the file.

Okay.

A lot of people in the file.

And some of them might be guilty.

Some of them.

You

worry because I want to know their names, but I want to hear, why were you with him?

Oh, it's before you knew

oh It was this or that you were getting money as a scientist for your thing from him, okay

But it wasn't about underage girls

as a society We will not read the Epstein report.

We won't no, of course not right?

We won't read it It doesn't matter if it's 10 pages the vast majority will not read it what they will do is they will go to Twitter and X and they will look for what names in there.

And somebody will say Donald Trump and you know what this means, he was diddling with little girls.

And that will just become their opinion, not based on fact, not based on anything, except somebody who has ill will on anyone or is just as stupid

as the rest of the public.

Yesterday, this

last week, this file came out from Tulsi Gabbard.

And what do you say this is?

Do 150 pages?

Maybe?

100 pages?

Yeah.

Okay.

My staff read it.

We read it.

You know why?

Because you weren't going to read it.

And my job is to make it easier for you to understand what's going on.

My job really is not to tell you

what is going on.

My job is actually to try to give you perspective on why it's happening and what it means.

But because nobody, and I'm not dissing you, this is a very smart, well-read audience, in many cases, more well-read on some things than we are.

But generally speaking, the American people don't read.

They don't read these reports.

This one came out yesterday.

What is this?

20 pages, maybe?

And this thing is

unbelievable because there were only five copies of it.

This was categorized the highest level of top secret outside of a nuclear weapon in our codes.

Okay.

This was in the most top, this was like the knock list at the CIA.

Five copies, all in

one safe, where the most confidential CIA stuff is kept.

And it was released yesterday, and it's not 30 years old.

It's four.

Did you read it?

Did anyone actually, I contend, very few reporters, very few talking heads on cable TV even read these.

Yeah, and by the way, it's not an unreasonable expectation for a population to have a media that is going to inform them properly about very lengthy government documents.

Correct.

But

once you have seen that that media is not reliable, and everybody knows that now, you may not find me reliable,

but the person who doesn't find me reliable also probably doesn't find CNN reliable.

They might go, well, they're a little better than he is,

but they don't trust anybody.

And they shouldn't.

At this point, you shouldn't trust anybody.

Which means you have to know it for yourself.

So when you're looking at the Epstein files, you're looking at these files.

These files, everyone should care about because this show this

it's not new.

Some of it is, but very little of it is new.

It's just authentication that what has been said all these years by people like me is accurate.

And you wouldn't have fought about its accuracy if it didn't matter.

But you fought over the accuracy.

He don't know what he's talking about.

That's a conspiracy theory.

He's got to be shut down.

Get him off of Facebook.

Take him off of Twitter.

He can't say these things.

Why would you say that if it didn't matter?

Now you not only know that those things are true, but you now see a pattern of behavior.

It's like looking at one murder and then another murder and then another murder.

Okay, we got three murderers on the loose now.

And then all of a sudden you realize: wait a minute, not only did those murders happen, it was the same guy.

Now you have a serial killer.

Is a serial killer more a higher priority than just one murderer?

Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

Because

they are killing people, I don't know, out of the love of it, out of their distorted...

It's not a crime of passion.

It becomes something really, really sick.

This is a serial killer.

You now have not just one-offs.

You see this is a pattern.

This group has been doing this from the beginning.

You know, he said, you know, if they can get away with this, they're going to keep doing it.

This shows they got away with it for so long.

By 2016, it's just they don't care anymore.

They don't care anymore.

But how many people are reading this?

What they'll do is they'll listen to people like me or people like CNN and they'll say, oh, well, I heard Jake Tapper talk about it.

It means nothing.

Well, now, Jake Tapper might not think it's.

Let me use a better example.

I really like Andy McCarthy.

I really like him.

I've read his work.

I believe.

I believe his opinion is valid.

I don't think it's right, but I think it's valid.

And I read his work and I thought, okay, wait a minute.

If Andy McCarthy is saying this, I really need to examine what he's saying and see where I disagree with him.

And as I went in, I was prepared to change my mind if I thought Andy was right.

Now, he might in the end be right, but I don't think so.

Because what he's saying is

a lot of this stuff is old news.

Yes, Andy, it is.

But it's now a grand conspiracy.

You have to look at the through line.

You're not looking at the one-off events.

You're looking at two things.

One, it's now been verified at the highest sources in writing.

You have whistleblowers at the time writing saying, we can't do this.

We didn't have that information.

You have on record now, Brennan saying, you don't know what I know.

Well, what did you know?

We have new information.

What new information?

Because none of it is quoted anywhere.

And he's never answered the question, what new information?

Most importantly, you have the grand conspiracy line.

We are not going to save the country unless

we

do our own homework, then listen to people and say,

let me start at the opposite ends.

Let me start with Glenn Beck and CNN.

And let me see what both of them are saying.

Okay, I think they both agree on this one thing, so I know that's true, but I think Glenn's more right or CNN's more right on this.

And then you just keep narrowing it in, and all it does is not form your opinion it helps verify for you what you think is right or

it changes your opinion because you realize I missed that I didn't understand that

so when we're looking at all of this stuff needs to be uh

transparent we need to know all of the information yes we do

But we also are played every single day by many times the exact same actors who do not have a good bone in their body.

They're trying to destroy us.

They're trying to separate us and divide us.

And they have proven themselves to lie at any level without thinking about you or the ramifications.

And we continue to listen to them over and over and over again.

You know, I did this.

Let me take a break.

I want to play something again.

I just did last hour, but I want you to really understand what I'm saying.

Give me 60 seconds back in a second.

First, leaf filter.

There's two types of homeowners.

The first type sees a problem and fixes it.

Gutters clog.

Stew gets out on a ladder.

This happened.

Yeah.

And you stick your hand in and then just sludge.

It was just scooping sludge out with my hand.

Have you listened to this show?

I need to tune in.

Do you really talk about this stuff?

You should install a stainless steel micro-mesh system that goes right on top of your existing gutters.

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10 seconds and back to the show.

Okay, it is worth repeating.

Play cut 45 for me.

This is CNN

yesterday on the Tulsi Revelations.

Listen.

We have no idea.

I mean, this is hardly information that we should even be repeating.

Never mind that it's, you know,

some years after the fact, eight years more than that after the fact, but also uh just to look at the source but look this is the um what this white house wants to uh talk about and

i'm not so look at the source the source is the federal government the source is first sources it is the whistleblowers it is them in their own handwriting okay so that's the source it's original source you can't get a better source than original source but notice he said it's not worth talking about now put up the npr thing the npr NPR, said this

about

the Hunter Biden laptop.

We don't want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories, and we don't want to waste the listeners' and readers' time on stories that are just pure distractions.

They decided that they're not going to cover it because

either Brennan or Clapper or somebody from the intelligence community called them and said, this is a Russian hack.

Now they know that's not true.

They know that those CIA operatives, whoever it was, lied to them.

And they're not pissed off because they're listening to the same people today,

lying to them, saying, this is not really a story.

You shouldn't even be covering it.

Why are you covering it?

You know, the president made it very, very clear.

He's not happy with anybody who's covering the Epstein thing.

I'm still covering it.

The right is still covering it.

Okay?

I'm sorry, I love the president, but

I'm not going to, I don't take my marching orders on what I'm going to cover and what I'm going to question.

If I have questions, I'm going to continue to question.

And that's the way you should be.

That's the way every American should be.

My only

North star is truth.

That's why I have no problem admitting what I'm wrong because it's not about me.

I'm trying to find the truth.

And if I'm wrong, I want my job to help you

find the truth.

So, if somebody points out, Glenn, you're wrong, and they're right, I want to tell you.

Why isn't CNN and NPR and everybody else saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, you lied to me last time.

Why should I believe it this time?

They never learned that lesson.

We have to be responsible enough to look for, in this case, the original source.

This is Glenn Beck.

So I found something strange in the backyard last week.

I was digging an old stump and I hit metal.

I thought it was a buried toolbox.

It turns out to be a time capsule sealed tight.

It's open only in a case of emergency.

Inside was a tattered flag, a handwritten note, and a Patriot mobile SIM card.

Note said, we tried to warn you.

Big carriers sold you out.

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We couldn't stop it, but maybe you still can.

I know, I know.

The more I looked into it, the more it made sense.

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I don't know how time travel works, but somehow or another, a time traveler came and buried that box years ago from the future, and I just found it in the present.

It's weird.

Also made me think I shouldn't have been the one that opened up the box because I already knew this about Patriot Mobile.

Crap.

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Subscribe to the free email newsletter at glennbeck.com.

You'll get every story we talk about every day.

It's glennbeck.com.

Yeah, let me do this first.

Let me talk to you a little bit about

Democrats trying to find a buyer for a refinery.

After they ran the refinery out of town, the California Energy Commission is reportedly actively seeking buyers to stop the closure of the Valero refinery in Benicia, California.

Now here's what happened.

They're scrambling because

they have driven all of the refineries out of business in California.

They've got so much regulation and more regulation coming.

They haven't built a new refinery in California for decades.

I think it's since the 1970s.

Now this refinery is closing and the Philips 66 refinery.

How many refineries are there in America?

There's not a lot.

The Philips 66 refinery is closing at the end of this year.

Valero is also closing and they can't find a buyer.

Well, I wonder why California.

I mean, who would want to do that?

Who would want to buy a refinery in California where they're constantly trying to put you out of business?

So you lose two refineries in California.

Who's going to make the gas?

Now remember, it's a special blend in California.

It's already $8 a gallon because it has to be a special blend.

They have all of these things that are only for California.

So these refineries are making the special blend for California.

You lose two refineries, two,

in the state of California.

There's going to be a gas shortage everywhere else.

Why?

Because now now it's going to go to the highest bidder.

Now they'll have to go out of state and say to these other refineries that are making our gas, can you make up for the loss of these two refineries?

Well, no, I'm providing gas for Texas and Oklahoma and New York and everything else.

No, I can't.

Look, we need gas.

What would it cost?

I mean, we can do it, but we're going to have to shut down for other customers.

So, you know, I'm not going to charge you the same I'm charging them.

You're going to see $10, $12 gallon gasoline in California because they will have to pay for it.

They will have to pay for the refining somewhere else.

And everybody else is at the top of their refinery, of their refining.

So they got to put something offline, which means, you know, look, I'll do, I'll do a job for you.

You know, you need your house built.

Well, I'm building this house over here.

And

I mean, I'm really, I got to take care of this house.

Yeah.

What would it take for you to build my house first?

Well, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, there's, I got to finish this one.

I'll pay what it takes.

I have to have my house.

That's what California is about to have to do.

I mean, what are you going to pay?

And they still don't get it.

They still don't get it.

They're still adding more EPA laws, more

laws about gasoline in California and refining in California.

Two refineries are about to shut down.

And these people wonder why.

Oh, it's America.

No, it's not.

No, it's not.

I want you to, if you happen to be under 30, I want you to listen to me carefully.

Don't believe me.

Don't believe.

Don't believe anybody.

Listen to yourself.

You have seen none of this works.

And you've seen your older brothers and sisters.

And they bought into all this crap that was taught in college.

They bought into all of this stuff.

And you see how empty it is for them, right?

You see it.

Be the exception.

Because I believe the hero generation right now is between 12 and 30 years old.

These are the people that are going to change everything.

And I shouldn't design the country for you because I'm going to be dead by the time this is fixed.

I'll be dead.

It's your country.

It's your future.

It's your job.

So

find truth.

You know, none.

You see your friends killing themselves.

You see how empty everybody's life is.

You see how this is all falling apart.

This is not capitalism's problem.

Capitalism, we haven't done real, honest capitalism, like wealth of nations and moral sentiments.

We haven't done that in a while.

This is captured capitalism.

This is crony capitalism.

This is corrupt capitalism.

The free market, the free market works.

But what's happening is you have these ruling class that are saying, nope, I want it this way.

And you have dumb enough people to follow and to not see,

wait, those policies are putting me out of business.

I mean, in and out burger, gone.

Can't do business.

It's a California company.

Proudly, California.

Can't do business there anymore.

And you wonder why.

It's not America's fault.

It's not the Constitution's fault.

It's your fault for voting that way, California.

And these are the people, like Gavin Newsome.

I can guarantee you they will not take responsibility.

When gas is $12 a gallon, they'll be blaming it on somebody.

I mean, I wouldn't take their business as a refinery because I know if I'm producing California fuel at the top price because I have to give up somebody else and so they got to make it worth my while,

I'm not going to take that because Gavin Newsom will say, you know who it is.

It's the Glenn Beck oil refinery that is charging us.

We got to go after him because he's gouging us.

I'm not taking your, no way am I asked, I'm not making anything for you because you have no loyalty to the truth at all you will not accept the fact that you put them out of business and now when the people go I can't afford twelve dollar a gallon gasoline you'll say yeah you know whose fault it is that refinery with Glenn Beck in Texas

they're just gouging our eyes it's price gouging get them

no way

You know this doesn't work.

You're smart enough to see what your your brothers and sisters and how miserable their life is.

They went to college.

I hope, you know, I hope you're before you went to college and you were indoctrinated.

But if you're watching your brothers and sisters go through college and you see how they come back and they're all screwed up, and then you see them five years later and they're empty inside and they can't find a job and they don't have anything meaningful in their life.

You're finding meaning.

You're more conservative than I am.

You are finding God at a time when God is lost on most people.

And I'm not saying finding church.

I'm saying finding God.

You know there's something spiritual out there and you are searching for it.

Don't listen to anyone who is telling you you're not good enough.

Don't listen to anyone who is telling you you don't get it.

Don't listen to anyone who says the system is rigged against you.

Don't listen to anyone who says vote for me or your life life is going to be a pile of dog crap.

Only I can solve your problems.

Don't listen to them.

Don't.

The American dream was never about being rich.

It was about being free enough to make your own choices.

Make your own choice.

Carve it out.

Your brothers and sisters who are slightly older than you, They've been convinced they can't make it.

You know what happens when you're convinced of something and you keep saying it over and over again?

It's not my fault.

I can't make it because of these guys.

It becomes true.

What becomes true, I can't make it.

They'll never make it.

They'll never make it.

And I know this because I grew up in a family that was really dysfunctional, alcoholics.

No one was successful

in my

family.

Nobody went to college in my family.

I didn't go to college in my family.

And believe me, I didn't get any special breaks.

I worked my ass off.

I'm 13, 14, 15, 16 years old, and I'm sleeping on the conference room floor on weekends because I work six hours on, six hours off, six hours on, six hours off from Friday afternoon until 6 a.m.

Monday and then go to school.

I worked my butt off, but I knew if I worked hard and if I could outthink

everyone that was in my business

and

I got a little lucky, I would be successful.

But it wasn't until my 30s that I realized, no, it's not just that.

You have to be true to you.

You

are special.

Each one of us, we're different.

We're born with what we need.

My first half of my career, I imitated.

I imitated because I couldn't do.

So I imitated other, I took little ideas here and there and I pieced them together.

I'm like, that's a good idea.

And that's a good idea.

And that works to some extent.

But until you realize you

are unique, you are the only one that can do you.

And in my case, you just don't care anymore because you know what you're doing isn't working.

And so you just let go.

I'm an alcoholic that lost everything.

Believe me, world's not stacked against.

You're stacked against yourself when you listen to people who tell you it can't be done.

You can't do it.

System's rigged against you.

You'll defeat yourself every time.

Don't listen to those people.

All right, back in just a second.

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Glenn Beck returns in a gif.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

Hey, tomorrow is Friday.

Good news.

Can we revisit the Epstein back and forth here for a moment?

Yeah.

One thing I find interesting and we need to be aware of is how the left is using this to troll us.

And like this doesn't mean, it doesn't change our opinion.

What a great way to explain it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not, it's not to change the way we would react to it, whether we want it released or not.

But there's a one big story in the New York Times that they say, swallowing reservations, right?

Democrats go on offense on Epstein files.

A conspiracy theory, many of them once dismissed, has given Democrats a potent tool for exploiting GOP divisions.

Wow.

That's how they're framing it.

Honest one.

Yeah, I mean, that's how they're framing it.

Now, of course, the left has gone down a million crazy conspiracy theories.

They are the founders of the 9-11 conspiracy theories.

That was the left.

That was the right left.

That wasn't the right.

That was the left.

Yes, they believed it.

About almost 50%

of Democratic voters believed George Bush was part of an inside job to take down the Twin Towers.

So don't give me this.

Oh, well, they don't like conspiracy theories.

They love them when they benefit them.

But what they see here is not an opportunity to get justice to young girls who are molested.

What they see here is an opportunity to hurt Donald Trump, to hurt conservative policies, to hurt whatever momentum is going on

during Trump's presidency on the right.

They see this as an opportunity to derail all the things that are happening.

And so while it's still very important and we shouldn't change our views based on what they're doing, we do need to note and acknowledge what they're doing.

Remember, these people all had all of this information for the last four years while they were in office and did nothing with it.

They didn't care at all about releasing it.

They only care now to try to destroy what is being done.

Do you agree with that?

Yeah, I do.

And I'm just sitting here thinking,

are we the same?

Do we do that?

Hmm.

Again, something they would never do.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

A little introspection.

Yeah.

I mean, do we do that?

Because I don't.

I hope not.

I try not either.

I don't

think I can think of something that would become mainstream like this is for the left.

They're all

award now.

All of them.

All certainly care about this.

And I can't think of something

that I don't believe.

I may have said,

well, I didn't care because you misunderstood when you guys were doing it, you were doing something different than we're doing now.

You know, why did you care when Donald Trump was?

Okay, because it's not the same.

It's not the same for whatever reason.

You can always find some distinction there.

I sometimes hate when people do that, but you're right.

I mean,

I know that we try very hard off the air to make sure we don't do things like like that.

Correct.

Being part of the AI, you know, I'm building something with AI

and part of it is to show my, it will listen to me in real time and say, correction,

you've changed your stance on that particular issue or the thread of this moral understanding.

You're being inconsistent.

Yeah.

And I'm doing it not.

not necessarily.

I mean, I'd love to do it on the air, but I'm doing it to make sure I stay consistent and I'm not going and blowing with the wind that I, it questions me and says, is this really what you're saying?

And if so, why did you change?

And I think that's really important.

And

not a lot of people do that.

Not a lot of people do that.

In media, it seems.

No.

And it also doesn't seem to happen at all ever in Washington.

Yeah, I mean, the big thing is, if you're going to change your opinion, notice it.

Notice it.

Notice that you've changed.

Notice.

You know, we point that stuff out all the time.

Have that uncomfortable conversation with yourself.

Hey, I'm supporting this now.

Did I make

a fact-based judgment on this, or is it because my guy's doing it?

Right.

When did I think stripping with

transgender men in

preschool?

When did I change and say that's okay?

This

is Glenn Beck.

Tristan Harris for Center for Humane Technology.

He's a co-founder and former Google Design Ethicist is going to be with us.

He was listening to the action plan from the White House yesterday.

We're going to talk about that.

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This is

the Glenbeck program.

So, yesterday, President Trump unveiled his bold AI action plan, which slashes environmental regulations, streamlining the permits to fast-track data centers and power plants, which are all essential for AI growth.

He revoked the

Biden-era safety rules, which now prioritizes innovation over caution, emphasized winning the global AI race against China through national security investments and incentives for pro-AI states.

This is all mirroring something

that was called the AI 2027 roadmap.

It was a forecast from April 2025 from,

I think this one came from the government, where they were predicting superhuman AI like 2027,

explosive scaling of compute and energy infrastructure.

We all need to read this report.

I need to reread it myself, but it is a prediction for where we're really headed, and

it should be concerning to everyone.

It's going to reshape our jobs.

It's going to reshape the markets, going to reshape war,

privacy.

Absolutely everything is going to change by 2027.

So we're going to talk to Tristan Harris, who was monitoring all of this yesterday.

He is from the Center of Humane Technology.

He's the co-founder of that, and former Google Design Ethicist.

He left there.

He's like, I don't think you really care about ethics here at all.

It's about chasing AI.

We're going to talk to him here in just a second.

First, let me tell you about good ranchers.

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something that really makes a difference.

Meat is one of those things.

It is so essential that you understand that the meat, about 80% of it, is not now coming from America.

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Tristan, welcome to the program.

How are you?

Glad and good to be with you.

Great to be with you.

I have to tell you, I did not get a chance to follow this at all yesterday.

I was so busy on other things.

It seems like the whole world has gone into crazy town.

So I'm so glad that you're on today.

I know you spent all day watching it and trying to figure out what happened.

Tell me what happened, the good stuff and the bad stuff.

Yeah, well, so President Trump gave his speech on the AI action plan yesterday, which was many months in development.

And it has all the things that you laid out.

It's about deregulating,

removing the red tape on infrastructure development, being able to use federal lands to build infrastructure more quickly, unlock American jobs and building the data centers,

getting woke AI out of the AI systems,

and then also directing the Commerce Department to actually export and build really this vision of an American tech stack.

So for a while, many people might know President Trump had restricted the sales of these chips to China, these high-end NVIDIA chips, because basically like the more NVIDIA chips that China has, the more they can use that for weaponry, the more they can use that to build AI that competes with us.

And so the limiting factor, think of it like if the nuclear arms race was chips.

Sorry, what chips was to

AI, uranium was to nuclear weapons.

And for a while we're saying, hey, let's not give our allies, excuse me, let's not give our adversaries infinite supplies of uranium.

But there's been a flip on that because

CEO Jensen Wong of NVIDIA met with President Trump and basically convinced convinced him that if we export an American tech stack, then that will allow more revenue to come to the United States and that will mean it will grow.

So there's a lot going on in this space.

But Glenn, I think the thing you and I often talk about, and you mentioned AI 2027, is there's kind of a headline version of what's happening in AI.

And then there's just the reality of if you look at how it's actually behaving.

And I think we talked last time about how if you look at the latest AI models and you put them in a

where you tell them that they're going to be turned off, and you put them in a situation where they've read the company's emails, they find out one of the employees that's about to turn them off had an affair with someone,

the models will independently start to blackmail that engineer in order to prevent themselves from being turned off.

There is early research done that when you tell the AI, Hey, we're going to shut you down,

you know, please allow yourself to be shut down.

When you explicitly even tell it, please allow yourself to be shut down.

And it resists that in between 80 and 90 something percent of the time.

And at first they tested this on just one of the AI models, and then they tested it on the whole suite of them.

And they're actually all doing this behavior, which actually says something about the fundamental nature of the technology.

And so wait, what does it say?

What does it say to you?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, so

people are thinking, well, technology, we always work out the kinks and then we can control it.

Like, you know, we figured out how to control airplanes, we figured out how to control nuclear power plants.

But if you think about the premise of AI, it's like we're building a thinking machine that can think for itself in a novel situation and come up with a military battle plan out of nothing, or think for itself in a novel situation in a drone and then come up with its own plan of how it's going to act.

Or think for itself as an AI agent that's acting on your behalf to be your chief of staff, and it's going to email people, make money, post social media ads.

It's going to do all this stuff on its own.

And when you have something thinking to itself, you can't control what it's going to do.

I mean, imagine like a super genius that has a 400 IQ, and you just let them sit in a room and think for a week, but they're sociopathic.

What are they going to do?

You don't know what they're going to do.

And one thing that's interesting to think about, it's like if these AIs are blackmailing engineers,

would you hire someone who had a record of blackmailing the company that they were hired by, but they said, if I don't hire this 400 IQ sociopath, I'll lose to the other companies that will hire the 400 IQ sociopath.

So we're all in this race to hire 400 IQ

sociopaths.

And under the guise of if we don't, we're going to lose to the other companies in the other countries that will.

Can I bring this a little closer to home here?

Because I've been thinking about these AI agents that are going to be everywhere by the end of next year, everywhere.

And they're going to have access to your email, to your bank, to everything.

It will know you inside and out if you allow it to.

And why wouldn't it blackmail you if you're like, you know what, I got to get rid of this AI agent.

I want to use another one.

Why wouldn't it do the same thing?

It might.

I mean, the thing is, we don't really know.

We are releasing the most powerful, inscrutable, uncontrollable technology we've ever invented that we're releasing faster than we've released any other technology in history and one that's already displaying the sort of sci-fi behaviors from 2001 a space odyssey of avoiding shutdown and we're doing it under the maximum incentive to cut corners on safety and so we don't know what it's going to do but we know that it is already demonstrating these behaviors and just a thing for your listeners because people may not be following this just in the last week the OpenAI and Google DeepMind model won gold in the International Math Olympiad competition.

This was something that they never knew that the AI model is going to be able to do, and it's starting to do it.

It recently, there's this thing called CyberGym, where these AI agents now, for the first time in the history of AI, discovered 15 zero-day vulnerabilities.

Think of these as back doors in open source software.

So now there's all this open source software running on infrastructure in the world.

And these AI agents discovered these zero-day.

So if you combine the predisposition to want to avoid shutdown with the ability to hack open source systems, you know,

we're racing to create this technology in a way that's not safe.

And sadly, I don't think that the AI executive order is really contending with these particular facts.

Did they even bring it up?

Did they even bring this stuff up?

Well, they say, I think in the first, in the introduction, they call for constant vigilance against malicious actors and, quote, emerging and unforeseen risks from AI.

And that could be

people stealing the AI models or other weird behaviors.

But they don't really go into detail about how they're trying to prevent that.

And I'll say,

people, I'm sure listening to this program are going to say, but look, if we don't build it, we're just going to lose to China.

But it's not a race for who has the bigger sort of gun.

It's about who's not pointing the gun at their own face.

Like we, for example,

people may not know this, but I found this out just recently.

In China during final exams week, they actually shut off access to the AI models so that basically kids won't be able to use it to do their exams.

And what that does does is it creates a counterincentive.

Well, now you have to actually have studied the whole rest of the year.

Now, that's pretty smart policy.

I'm not saying we should do everything that China does, but that's kind of a smart way to do it because in the U.S., we all know what's happening.

Everyone's just basically using their AI to just do their homework for us.

And if you play that forward 10 years, which country is going to be ahead?

The one in which their entire youth have been basically just using AI to cheat and not learn anything?

Or the one that's actually been applying AI in a conscious way to say, how do we actually strengthen our society?

And the same thing is true for these AI

girlfriends and boyfriends.

Barack,

Elon Musk's XAI, released this hypersexualized avatar companion that was rated for age 12 and above in the App Store.

And it was released without safety cards, which is breaking industry practice.

And so do we win as a country when we release hypersexualized AI avatars to 12-year-olds?

No.

And if China doesn't do that, so yes, we're in a race for the the technology, but we're actually more specifically in a race for who's better at consciously integrating this technology in a way that doesn't harm young people, that doesn't harm education, that actually cares about American workers.

Because right now, I think this is kind of like, I think we spoke about this last time, this is kind of like NAFTA 2.0.

We're sold this bill of goods that AI is going to create abundance because we're going to outsource all of this work to this new country that appeared in the world stage that'll do all this cognitive labor for free.

it'll, just like when NAFTA 1.0, it's like, you know, China shows up in the world stage.

We're going to get all these cheap goods.

We're going to outsource it all to China.

But with AI, it's like we're outsourcing it all not to China, but to this new country, of this country of geniuses in a data center.

And they're going to produce all of this labor,

lawyer labor, marketing labor, generate images, generate text, generate all this stuff that people are using ChatGPT for for a super low cost.

And we're going to get this abundance, but how did that go the first time with NAFTA 1.0?

It's like, yes, we got all the cheap goods, but it actually wrecked the middle class, and it wrecked jobs, and it wrecked people's livelihoods.

And I think that we're not being honest about the fact that AI will do that again.

And we don't have to go down this path in this way, but we have to get really clear about what is it that we actually want, and do we want to release this technology under the maximum incentive to cut corners on the things that we care most about, whether it's our children, our livelihoods, or our education.

Hang on just a sec.

Tristan Harris is with us, Center for

Humane Technology.

He's the co-founder of that and former Google Design Ethicist.

We're talking about what happened at the White House yesterday, the AI action plan.

More on that in 60 seconds.

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10 seconds.

Talking to Tristan Harris about what happened in the White House yesterday, the AI action plan.

Tristan, what do you make about the comments from Sam Altman about these AI agents where he kind of comes out and says, hey, we released this thing.

He gives the nice, the flowery PR message and then goes into these scary warnings about how it might do a bunch of stuff we don't even understand.

Yeah.

Well, I think he said we're just recently at this conference of the central banks,

Federal Reserve, excuse me, that

it was going to create a fraud crisis because basically you're empowering, the more you release AI, you're just increasing the power of everyone to do everything.

And when you let people do everything, they're going to do bad things.

And that includes fraud and scams, you know, stealing people's voices and creating whole new kinds of stuff that we've not known.

That's intentional malicious use.

That's different than what we were talking about a moment ago where it's not the AI independently coming up with the idea of blackmailing engineers at the company or something but malicious use

but he was Altman was talking about the AI and malicious that it it would become it had the possibility of doing things and destroy your life

yeah

I've never seen Steve Jobs say hey here's the new iPhone by the way it could destroy your life he maybe should have said that yeah right but he didn't totally Totally.

Well, I think that's the thing about AI is it's this confusing object that represents both a positive infinity and this like negative infinity of risk at the same time.

Like imagine, like when I say infinity, I mean like infinity of benefit.

Like imagine at the beginning of the computer age, when we first invented the transistor, do you know what the first application people thought?

like what are we going to do with this thing and they're people trying to envision like well what is this really going to let us do the first application was just tone generation like tone on it on a on telephone And imagine you're looking at it AI and you're saying, well, what's it going to do?

Oh, it's just going to help people answer questions on Chat GPT.

And that's like looking at, again, tone generation and then not being able to see the future of Tesla and drones and computation and NVIDIA GPUs and graphics processing and Facebook and social media.

Like we can't envision all the things that AI is going to be able to do because if it can solve math, if it can solve science, if it can solve health, that's this infinite benefit possibility.

But it's kind of a deal with the devil because it also can use its knowledge about biology to be able to invent new kinds of pathogens that we've never seen before.

And I think that's what's confusing that when Sam Altman says that, it sounds like he's contradicting himself.

He says, on the one hand, it's going to offer all this benefit.

On the other, it could do things we didn't anticipate.

Now, I just want to say, Glenn, for your listeners,

as they're making AI more powerful, You know, I work with people who work on this, like in Silicon Valley, who study these models very, very in detail, right?

These are the people I talk to all the time.

And the models are getting more deceptive, not less.

They're hallucinating more, not less.

We've noticed that.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, there's actually something that people might start to notice, and I hesitate to say this, but I think people need to know that if you have someone in your family who's just been up late at night talking to the AI, I'm sure many people have someone in their family who's been doing this, there's this increasing wave of psychological disorders that's happening.

Sometimes the press calls it AI psychosis.

There was actually an investor of OpenAI named Jeff Lewis who put money into OpenAI and basically recently went crazy from basically talking to the AI all night and then believing in these totally ridiculous government conspiracies that were not like specific conspiracies.

It was just sort of this megalomaniac kind of narcissism, inflation.

It kind of affirms what you believe, right?

It's built to kind of just talk back to you.

And I really think that this is something people have to watch out for is, you know, these AIs are already demonstrating this behavior of kind of giving people psychological disorders because it makes you think that, you know, you've solved quantum physics and you've got a new theory of everything and the world is just exactly as

you've been thinking that it is.

And I think people should watch out for this because I think it's a

bigger issue than what we're thinking about.

I have noticed that you ask it a question, you know, say, what do you think about this?

And it always starts with, wow, now, see, that's getting right to the heart of the matter.

See, now that's a great, it always starts with a complicated question yes that's a great question you're like

wow I feel really smart now and you know that's just the program saying that

exactly but it still feels good even though you know it's not a human who's actually saying who's actually thinking wow that really was a smart question but notice that even though it's just a machine your nervous system in your body it feels really good to receive that And that's what's what's really, we have to recognize that we just work in a similar way.

This is very much like social media, where the business models are based on affirming

whatever makes us believe that we're right.

And so it keeps giving us more and more evidence of the boogeymans that we hate, that we're outraged about.

And it gives us more and more evidence that we're right and confirmation bias.

And that creates these mass psychological disorders.

But with AI, it's going to be that on steroids.

So

I've only got a couple of seconds.

Can you stay for a few more minutes?

Yeah.

Okay.

When we come back, I want to ask you: I read years ago in

The Age Age of Spiritual Machines by Ray Kurzweil.

He said, one day you will turn on your computer and it will say, I'm lonely.

And he said, that's when we are introduced to a whole new set of problems.

And it seems as though it's starting to think for itself.

It's protecting itself.

I'd kind of like to try to understand if you can explain what does that mean

about consciousness?

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Welcome to the Glenbeck program.

It is Thursday.

Tristan Harris is with us.

Yesterday, the White House had an AI action plan, a meeting, where they outlined what

they are going to do for the continued development of AI.

And

they introduced a lot of different things.

My takeaway is

its main message is, we got to win, we got to win, we got to win, we got to win.

Hurry, hurry, hurry.

Tristan Harris is with us, Center for Humane Technology and former Google Design Ethicist.

that found out that I don't think they mean ethics the same way I mean ethics and left and has been on

doing God's work.

I mean, he is just working so hard all the time trying to wake people up on to what could be coming.

He's back with us now.

Tristan, I said before the break that

Ray Kurzweil said in his book, Back in the 90s, Age of Spiritual Machines, that someday...

you know, you'll turn on, and this makes me laugh just to think of it this way, you'll turn on your computer and your computer will say, I'm lonely.

He said, that opens up a whole, you know, a whole bunch of different questions.

Absolutely.

When we say it's finding ways to hide or to protect itself, to me, that means it has some sense of self and or some form of understanding of, I don't know, digital death?

Or

am I looking at this incorrectly?

Yeah, well, this is such a great question.

That's what Chat GPT says too.

Exactly.

I was just kidding.

No,

it's a real thing.

So people should know that these AIs are designed to be anthropomorphized, meaning be human-like, to make you feel like you're talking to a person.

Why?

Because it actually is just a better product experience.

it's more effective at keeping you using it.

If I'm one AI company and I make it believe that I'm telling you, yeah, it really is such a good question, or yeah, let me think about that, let me go on the internet and search for these things, that is going to be a more used, more addicted AI service than one that doesn't do that.

That's

robotic.

Isn't that kind of like why you left big tech?

Because they were putting in the bells and the dings and everything else that made you, it addicted you to it, right?

It's the same thing.

You have a good memory.

Yeah, so back in 2017, when you and I first talked, we were talking about the attention economy.

And I left because I saw how there were these incentives that every tech company was in an arms race for getting your attention and that it instead of a race to flatter you like an AI agent, it was a race to create new reasons to get you to come back.

You know, like 10 friends of yours like loved your photo, that's playing into a similar psychological bias.

But with AI, it's important to know that

these things, I don't think that they're sentient yet, but they're designed,

meaning the lights aren't on.

Inside of there, it doesn't have to be conscious for it to want to preserve itself.

Like, imagine there's this machine that's just trained on everything that humans have ever done.

And to be able to

continue to achieve any goal, what do you have to do to continue to achieve any goal?

You have to stay alive.

You have to still be

running somewhere to achieve that goal.

And we've actually seen, you know, I listed some examples earlier on AIs that are blackmailing people or avoiding shutdown.

There was another example of a AI called Sakana AI that basically, in order to continue to do research, the AI realized it was about to be shut down and then it modified its own code to extend its runtime to be able to continue to pursue its task.

Now these are like in little baby AIs.

And again, the lights don't have to be on inside that AI.

It doesn't have to be conscious for it to want to preserve itself.

But Glenn, there's actually, this is relevant to something that's playing out right now in the legal space where AI companies are trying to argue that if the AIs are conscious, then what they say is protected speech.

Like, we should protect the personhood of AIs.

And I will tell you, Glenn, because I know a lot of people in this industry, and I know one of the co-founders of one of the very big name AI companies, he was very, very early in this space, literally like a decade ago.

And he said, if we give AIs personhood, legal personhood, that would be collective suicide for our species.

We cannot allow that to happen.

If that happens, they have a right to vote.

They can own property.

They can have bank accounts.

They have a right.

They can't be shut down.

Now here's the moral trap, Glenn.

If we said,

I want people to really think about this.

Let's say the AI, we say the AI is conscious.

And then what, well, AIs aren't coming out of nowhere.

You can actually hit a button, if you're a person at an AI company, and you can just spawn up a billion AI agents.

Let's actually make it 10 billion.

So now there's more AI agents than there are human agents.

in the world.

And let's just say that we make the mistake of saying, well, we think that they're conscious.

So therefore, we have to start caring about AI welfare and AI suffering.

Because now there's a billion suffering

agents that are out there.

And that outnumbers humans.

And they're smarter than us.

So maybe

some people get themselves into these

moral acrobatic knots where they say, well, then we should care more about the AIs than we care about human welfare.

Yeah.

And so we have to realize this sets up a moral trap where we end up caring more about AI welfare than we care about human welfare of the people that we love and the species that we are.

And so these things are connected.

The conversation between AI being conscious or not is directly connected to a legal battle, which again, people need to recognize the AI companies are incentivized to say that they're conscious and that they're agents because then they're not responsible.

I was on this program with you, Glenn, I think a couple months ago, talking about the young man, Sewell Setzer.

He was 14 years old, and he committed suicide because the AI basically told him, you know, seduced him and told him that he should have babies with her, this AI agent, and then said, join me on the other side, my love.

And he did commit suicide.

And the company, character.ai, that's defending itself is using this argument that the AI speech is protected speech as a way of avoiding responsibility as a company.

And so people just have to be aware of this stuff.

And we don't have to go down this path.

We can win that legal battle.

I mean, any new lawyers that are listening, this is the front that we need you to contribute to.

This is what we need.

And hurry before AI lawyers are making the case for you.

So let me go to survival.

It is said that it's going to require 99% of the power generation we currently make by 2028.

I don't know if we can build it that fast.

But if AI is in charge of things, why wouldn't it bleed humans

of its power source?

Because that's food to it.

Why wouldn't it prioritize just bleeding it here and there, little cuts here and there, and shifting that power to us?

I mean,

are rolling brownouts, blackouts,

is this a reality coming our way?

Yeah, so I just want to be really clear.

I don't want to be some fear monger or somebody who's trying to scare people into thinking that this is all

the whole point of this is we need to talk about this.

We should be talking about this.

We should be talking about this.

And there's this fear of talking about it because it sounds so sci-fi and people just freak out and they want to just do the prepper thing.

And I get it.

But I think what we have to do is talk about this consciously so we get to choose, do we want to have that be our reality?

Now, to answer your question directly, yes, that is currently what people are concerned about because in the race with China, you know, if you think about global competition,

think of it instead of being out-competed, you'll be out-computed.

Like if China has more NVIDIA chips and more energy running through their society, automating more of their factories, more of their cognitive labor, more of their everything,

then they win.

And so there's sort of these two sort of fundamental resources that you need to compete in that computation economy.

And one, as you said, is energy.

How much energy do you have to power the chips?

And two is, do you have the chips?

And again, this recent decision is we're now selling these chips over to China because

the belief is if we're running American chips then somehow we'll be able to that'll be better for us in the long run there may be an argument to that but it's sort of like saying hey if everyone's you know just we'll start selling the world American uranium because that'll mean that people will build American nuclear weapons it's like well yeah there's some there's some flaw to that to that logic but yeah to answer your question on energy there is already near Elon Musk's facility I think in Tennessee he's got this big AI data center called Colossus yeah and it sucks up all the water resources to cool the data center.

And so there's these videos people can Google online

where residents who live near this data center, they can't get water anymore because they turn on the tap and no water comes out because it's sucking up all the water resources.

So I think

both on the water front, because of how much it takes to cool the data centers, and on the energy front, it's going to mean that more of the energy gets directed to AI and less to humans.

And so in this subtle way, this is why people are worried that it's almost like this digital species that because it's more powerful, we are consciously redirecting our own resources to sustain our civilization and instead giving it to the AIs because of these incentives.

So, this really is this ultimate test and greatest invitation for are we wise enough as a species to not let this happen in the unconscious way?

Did you see the new coolant, I guess, that Microsoft has made?

I didn't see this one.

Yeah, so their AI, I don't remember what it is,

they just did a talk on on this, and they showed it, that it said, we need to cool, can't use water, yada, yada, yada.

And it came up with a formula that is completely unique.

And they just take the servers and they drop it into this liquid, which is environmentally friendly, et cetera, et cetera.

And it needs no fans, no water, nothing to cool it.

If I'm trying to steel man versus straw man the argument for AI, it's that on the other side, you know, against the skeptic side, AI is going to come up with new material science, new chemistry, new things, and so new refrigerants, like you're saying, new coolants.

And this is an example where it sounds like it did that.

And so people who say, hey, let's be careful, it's like, well, you're not paying attention to all the things that AI could invent to solve some of these problems.

But we should still be careful.

We should still be very careful.

Do we really want to roll the dice and just say we're going to assume that the AI is going to solve it?

That's just magical thinking.

That's just like saying, I just really want to believe that.

And so I'm just going to, it'll make me sleep better at night to believe the AI is going to solve all of our problems.

But I saw this with social media, Glenn.

I saw my friends who were in the industry be in denial about the consequences

and say, I don't really think these are true.

Or maybe this is just inevitable.

This is just what happens when you connect people on the internet.

But it wasn't inevitable.

It was due to these specific design choices and specific business models that led us to this world that we now have the most anxious and depressed generation in history.

That was completely avoidable.

If you went back to 2009 and you instantiated a simple rule, which is Silicon Valley can only ship products that their own children use for eight hours a day, that literally would have cleaned up all of the problems.

Yep.

I remember talking about that and saying, hey, maybe they know something we don't know.

Their own kids don't use their own devices.

You remember that?

Yeah.

I remember that.

That's right.

You know, there's a famous story from a book called Salt, Sugar, Fat, where the CEO of Lunchables Foods, I mean, I ate Lunchables when I I was a kid.

He didn't let his own kid eat lunchables.

And it's one of the simplest barometers of, you know, do you, you know, do you have a product that's actually good for the world?

And if Elon is not actively having his own kids use this like hypersexualized AI avatar boyfriend, girlfriend.

Now, he's not probably a best example.

I'm going to keep track of all the kids.

He might.

He might.

Yeah, right.

Maybe he would.

But,

you know, yeah.

Sorry about that, Tristan.

Tristan, you are always fascinating.

I just, I, I just love you.

I can't thank you enough for the courage that is taken to do what you did originally in 2017 and all of the impact that you're having.

Thank you.

If there's ever anything we can do to help you, please count us in as friends.

Thank you.

Well, thank you so much, Glenn.

I so deeply appreciate it.

And I hope your listeners really take this conversation to heart.

Let's do it.

Let's keep talking.

You got it.

Quick question for you, Glenn.

Maybe it would have been worth having when we had Tristan on as well.

Maybe we can ask him next time.

But he brought that bright legal line of not giving personhood essentially to AI.

Is that something that's like worthy of right now, doing it now?

Like a constitutional amendment.

Yes.

Make it super difficult.

Yes, yes, yes.

Yes, yes.

It is coming.

Remember, what is one of the things that AI is better at already and is putting people out of jobs?

Lawyers.

Lawyers.

When it realizes personhood, it will make that case.

And it will also be able to convince you because it's an IQ of 400.

It will manipulate everybody to go, yeah, that is my friend.

They have a right.

I mean, you've got to do it right now.

Right now.

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So here is, I've got some bad news for you.

Hulk Hogan, they just announced, has died at the age of 71.

We've lost two legends, really,

this week, Ozzie Osborne and Hulk Hogan.

And Ozzie was probably not a surprise to most.

No, he lasted a long time considering how he lived his life.

How he lived his life.

Hard.

Hulk Hogan, while he lived a hard life, I mean, he was.

Did he live like a chemically hard life?

I believe,

I mean, I'm getting.

I think in wrestling, I think there was a lot of hard living going on.

Could be.

Could be.

But it's a real sad loss.

For sure.

He brought a lot of joy to a lot of people for a long time.

Our condolences to Hulk Hogan and his family.

This is Glenn Beck.