Best of the Program | Guests: Sen. Mike Lee & Vivek Ramaswamy | 2/26/25

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Are we on the wrong side of deportations?

Representative Jayapal from Seattle.

Normally, I don't agree with her, but she makes a case that's very appealing to keep our slaves, I mean, our undocumented workers.

Also, Vivek Ramaswamy, he's now running for governor of Ohio.

We talked to him about that

and the future.

What does the future look like with AI and how do states prepare?

And Senator Mike Lee on Gold and the Reigns Act, all on today's podcast.

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They called me and wanted to be a sponsor on the program, and I said no to them in 2007.

And I said, call me after the collapse.

And they're like, no, no, Glenn, we actually believe you're right about the collapse that's coming, and we don't do all of those things.

And I said, well, we'll see how your people fare after the collapse.

And I talked to them after, and their people were fine because they don't work for the banks.

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You're listening to the best of the Blendback program.

You know, I heard something yesterday that I wanted to share with you because I thought, you know,

I'm from Seattle.

Representative Zayapal is from Seattle.

She can't be totally bat crap crazy, right?

Maybe

I just haven't thought of things in the correct fashion.

So here's what she said yesterday.

Listen.

We can't let them deport the millions of families across this country who have been doing the work that keeps our economy going every day.

We can't let them scapegoat and criminalize immigrants who contribute, who are our neighbors, our friends, our churchgoers.

If you look at the food that's on your table, think about who picked it.

If you look at your homes, think about who built them.

Oh my gosh.

If you look at your vulnerable elders and your kids, think about who's taking care of them.

Who's caring for them?

Who, boy, you know, I heard that case, and that just struck right to my heart.

You know, I thought to myself, my gosh, maybe we're wrong.

She could be correct.

Let's look at her side of the argument.

I mean, just for a minute.

I don't expect you to change, but I want you to listen with company.

You sons of, you people who just don't, you just hate people of other colors for no apparent reason.

That's the only reason why you want these illegals, as you might call them, out.

Have some compassion, man.

So let me just, I want you to, unless you're driving, close your eyes for just a minute, and I want you to imagine a twilight world shadowed and stilled where the hum of life is faded to a whisper.

Picture the sprawling farmland, its fields once ablaze with golden wheat and wheat and

beautiful, verdant rows of produce.

Just it's a painting.

Except now it's desolate.

Stalks are brittle, fruit rotting where it falls on the ground.

Zoom closer in.

A construction site, skeletal beams rising like bones of some forgotten beast, abandoned mid-creation.

A restaurant, there on Main Street in your own hometown, its windows dark, its tables bare.

The aroma simmering spices replaced now just by the dust of neglect.

Oh, you might say, I'm finding that hard to imagine.

But it is the precipice which we teeter upon when we contemplate casting out the undocumented souls who breathe life into our nation's veins.

Let's really look at her case.

These workers, vilified, yet so rarely beheld, are the unseen architects of our own prosperity.

Yes, consider the ledger here of reality.

Over 70% of those who tend our fields are foreign-born.

And of that number, nearly half lack the papers we demand.

They're not peripheral.

They're foundational.

In 2023,

their labor fueled an economy that extracted $128 billion in taxes from their sweat.

And these are funds that they will never recover from Social Security or Medicare.

Their unemployment rate stands at 3.2%,

outpacing the native born, right?

You might say, well, that's not really good.

That means jobs aren't.

No.

They're just willing to work.

These are not the idle.

They are the relentless, filling the...

The chasms in our agriculture and construction and hospitality.

Can you imagine going to one of your rich banquets banquets held in some banquet hall, the belly of some corporate monstrosity hotel chain?

Where are you going to get the servers to feed you, you corporate fat cat?

American sectors would buckle without them.

The American Farm Bureau calculates that expelling the undocumented labor would slash agricultural output by 60%.

Your breakfast, orange juice, price triples.

The milk in your coffee doubles overnight.

Construction costs soar as half the workforce, 1.5 million strong, just vanishes.

Stalling homes and highways

all throughout the country.

Hospitality, already fragile, loses 1.2 million workers.

Go ahead, see if you can find somebody that will wash the dishes.

Restaurants, close, hotels, just mothball rooms.

This isn't just speculation.

It's the arithmetic of survival.

Cato Institute pegs the GDP loss at $1.6 trillion over a decade if we purge these contributors that you call illegals.

Who bears that burden?

I'll tell you who, you do, at the checkout and your rent with with your tax bill

these are not the faceless cogs but they're human beings propelled by the same hunger for betterment that drove pilgrims across the oceans they'll tell you they rise before the sun hands blistered knees bent harvesting what we consume without an even a second thought

Yes, California growers have said that they've posted ads for years and locals just don't apply.

These jobs are theirs because no one else else will do these jobs.

And the data concurs in states like Texas and Florida, native-born workers shun the fields, leaving 80% of crop labor to the immigrants, documented or undocumented.

They don't displace, they sustain.

Quote, without this labor, our way of life will crumble.

Quote, this is a necessary good.

Look where they came from.

They're better off in our fields and in the shadows than where they were

when they came here.

Look at where they came from.

Gia, is there an echo in here?

Maybe it's just the ghost of arguments past that I hear.

I'm not sure, but it seems without this labor, we will starve.

Our way of life will collapse.

This is a necessary good.

It's necessary for us and good for them.

Look at where they came from.

They're better off in our fields than where they came from.

The prosperity of the superior depends on the toil of the inferior.

Uh-oh, wait a minute.

I have heard these phrases before.

It seems as though they've just been rinsed out and repurposed.

Without this labor, our way of life crumbles.

Hmm.

That's a mirror, gang.

The words aren't new.

They're borrowed from a time when men in frock coats deemed human bondage a necessary good.

Because if we don't have these slaves in the field, our very way of life will crumble.

You won't be able to afford any products.

It's a pillar of economic order.

James Henry Hammond, 1858.

In all social systems, there must be a class to perform the drudgery, freeing the refined for higher purposes.

Wow, that almost sounds like Harare, doesn't it, from the World Economic Forum?

There will be a permanent underclass of useless people.

We'll just need to keep busy doing stuff.

Oh my gosh, the compassion.

You're right.

He's speaking right from the heart.

John Calhoun, 1837, it's a positive good.

It's good for them and it's good for us.

It's an institution that if we don't have it, civilization falters, end quote.

Then it was cotton and tobacco.

Now it's lettuce and drywall.

But it's the same damn thing.

Then it was chains.

Now it's fear.

The fear of ice raids.

Fractured families.

A life uprooted.

It's still fear, isn't it?

Both rest on the same calculus.

Look, they're going to have to to do this because it's good for the rest of us.

All we've done is we've polished the rhetoric.

We've swapped shackles for shadows, but it's exactly the same.

Other than that, an underclass, indispensable,

yet discarded.

But

it's vital.

Although we can't really give them dignity.

I mean, they got to live in the shadows here.

Is the left this stupid?

Do they really think we don't see the parallels here?

Are they so naive to think that a costume change can absolve us?

Why is it so many people just swallow this?

Why do we let our politicians, the, and I mean this, literally, the heirs to the same voices of the 19th century that were defending slavery,

those heirs, why do we listen to them?

This isn't mercy.

It's cowardice, masked as practicality.

Masked again as compassion.

There's no compassion in the shadows.

The left joins the chorus.

This is exploitation, all just dressed in progressive crap.

As if calling it essential washes the stain clean, but it doesn't.

It's a lie that so many Americans are telling themselves to keep the tomatoes cheap and the gilted bay, so we can walk around with our cell phones from Apple and pretend we're better than everybody else because we're against slavery, but we buy our crap from China.

We'll allow people to live in the shadows.

We can't get them to go back home and come through the front door.

What kind of compassion is that?

It's so much better for them to live in a state of fear their whole life here in America.

You know, there is another option.

We could innovate.

We could mechanize the fields.

That's coming.

That's coming.

We could train the idle.

We could actually say to our kids, get your fat, lazy ass off the couch, away from the gaming system, and go out and work.

We could also pay wages that tempt the unwilling.

Instead, we'll let these corporations, these corporate farms,

undercut a reasonable living wage and just keep people pushed in the shadows so you could have a ripe tomato.

You know, everybody always says, oh, the right side of history.

I would have been on the right side of history.

Would you?

Would you have been?

Really?

1860, you're walking around going, I don't know.

I mean, this cotton, this shirt, it's fantastic.

It breathes.

I mean, how are we going to get all that cotton picked in the field if we don't have slaves?

You know, this is necessary.

Our whole society collapses without the slave.

You really would have been on the other side back then?

And yet, somehow or another you're not on that side now?

My guess is you would have been sitting someplace in

maybe in Charleston in a parlor sipping tea.

Why, I just don't understand why all these people don't understand why we need to have these slaves.

I mean,

they're really not good for much else.

They're not really like us.

I mean, they can make my tea and wash my dishes and pick the cotton in the fields and grow our food.

I'm gonna have my son do that?

I don't think so.

I think you would have been sitting in the parlor out front having a nice, cool iced tea.

This is a house built on sand.

Its contradictions are almost hysterical if it didn't involve, I don't know, real people.

But just remember this.

History doesn't forgive repetition.

It condemns it.

We've read this script before.

Its ending is pretty ugly.

But it's not inevitable.

We can rewrite it.

We can make it easier for the hard worker to come here legally.

We can invest in machines to lighten the load.

We can demand a system where no one's humanity is a bargaining chip for lower prices.

That's not charity.

That's justice.

But equal justice, not social justice.

You know, everything in the fields, it doesn't grow in shadow.

It only grows in sunlight.

You want to end corruption?

Here's a place we could start.

Because I can't believe how loud the echo of history is getting.

I'm just, you know, I say this all the time.

It's going to be interesting to see how all this works out.

I'm just waiting to see if this time we'll silence that echo of history and we'll go,

maybe we should do it another way here, George.

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Now, back to the podcast.

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

And don't forget, rate us on iTunes.

Well, hello to our good friend, Senator Mike Lee.

Mike, how are you, sir?

Doing great.

It's good to be with you as always.

Yeah.

So let's start with the gold thing, first of all.

Are you going to put a call in to the Treasury and just say, hey, I'm glad that you now say it's so easy for a senator to go in and look at the gold?

I'd like to do that now.

Oh, heck yeah.

And look, it's been a few years since I've made that request, but we've got a new sheriff in town, our new energy secretary, our new president are open to this in the past.

They've told me to pound sand.

It wasn't just today isn't a good day.

They told me I could not go.

Not then, not ever.

And that's BS.

And, you know, perhaps I do need to bring along an assistant or a mouse, as you put it, named Glenn.

Yeah.

Well, that would be great, Mike.

I'd love to do that with you.

But I just really want somebody that I trust to actually look at the goals and gold and be able to look at all of it.

Not just, I mean, back tonight, I'm going to show people.

It is amazing.

There are all these cages or all these rooms with gold.

In the 1950s, I think they only opened three of them.

We don't even know how many there are, but I think it's over 20 for sure, just in Fort Knox.

They only opened three of them.

And then they counted up and across, did the math, pulled out three gold bars, did a sample test of all of them.

In the 1970s, they only opened one room to let people see.

That's not verifying our gold.

That's not an audit.

And most of the video footage that I saw from that visit in the 1970s, which is the most recent one I've seen, it looked to me like mostly a lot of fanfare about the door.

I mean, there's this giant door.

It's like 10 feet thick.

Yeah.

And about 10 guys it took to operate all the wheels to open it.

But, you know, there wasn't a lot of time spent on the gold.

Very little time spent actually inspecting it, testing it, making sure it was there, that it was what it purported to be.

That's one of the many reasons why the American people is our government has gotten bigger, as it's gotten more expensive, as it's gotten more intrusive, as it's gotten more, frankly, dishonest.

People don't trust it and they want verification.

This is important for the full faith and credit of the United States government.

It is important that people know that we have what we say we have.

The only problem is, Mike, and I honestly, I wrestle with this.

We go in and you find out that there's the gold's not there or the gold has been re-hypothecated, which I explain in tonight's show.

You find out any of these really nasty things, that's not good for America.

That could be a collapse overnight.

Am I overthinking this?

No, no, no, you're exactly right.

Look, there are two rules in life that everyone needs to know.

Number one, a good way to end any party, or at least the fund in any party, is to use the word

rehypophocation.

Number two,

a good way to end the trust in any government is to inject the word rehypophication into their gold reserves because that's going to end a lot of the trust that people might have in the financial stability of that country and its monetary system.

And so I think that's a very good question that we need to ask when we visit Fort Knox together.

Yeah.

So, Mike, let me talk to you about what the House did.

You know, there were a few people that stood up and said, no,

I'm not putting my name behind it.

It passed.

So Donald Trump did get his tax cuts and everything that he wanted, but we didn't get what I really wanted, and that is

a Republican Party with a backbone that says, we're serious this time about cutting.

They passed a almost $90 trillion 10-year

bill,

but

I think it was like $1.4 trillion in cutting.

That's ridiculous.

For $90 trillion, you could only find less than 1% to cut.

It's insulting.

Yeah, that seems a little bit anemic for what is needed here.

Now, it's a start.

One could say, I suppose, that it is a good start.

But remember, this is not the budget.

The Senate still would have to act on it.

And I personally prefer a much more aggressive approach and would much rather see a more aggressive approach like that.

It's been discussed extensively by my friend and colleague from Wisconsin, Ron Johnson.

Senator Ron Johnson has pointed out that if we just went back to pre-COVID spending levels and then made upward adjustments for inflation and population increase since COVID with respect to Social Security and Medicare.

That we could get very, very close to balance.

We could be at balance within just a few years, like two, three years.

So why not take a more aggressive approach like that?

Why not use the budget as an opportunity to set that plan, set that credit card, to just say we're not doing this anymore because we can't afford it and it's going to shut our country and our economy down if we keep messing with this.

So why is that not being taken seriously?

Well, okay.

So

there are a lot of reasons.

A lot of people are eager to point out, look, House Republicans have a top.

They've got only, you know, depending on the day, the phase of the moon, the day of the week, they've only got one, two, or three seat majority cushion.

And there are a lot of variances of opinion.

But this is exactly the kind of moment when we need leadership.

We need bold people to just stand up and say, no, we're not doing this.

We're going to be more aggressive about it.

There's still opportunity to do that.

This is not the end of the process.

We're still very near the beginning of the process.

And I personally hope that the Ron Johnson approach will gain more appeal and more of that will get injected into whatever ends up getting passed.

You know, I was kind of excited,

you know, about a month ago.

I thought, ooh, wait a minute, we might even be able to get the Reigns Act, which is something people either don't know what it is or they've heard it for, you know, the last 10 or 12 years.

And

honestly, maybe it just needs to be called the, we're going to do a lot of really cool, free stuff for the American People Act and will get passed.

Explain what the Reigns Act is, and do we have a chance of actually getting, because that would fix almost all of our problems.

Yes.

Yes, it would.

The Reigns Act bottom line is that it requires what the Constitution already mandates.

In Article 1, Sections 1 and 7, we read that you cannot make a federal law without Congress.

And that to pass a federal law, that requires a couple of things.

First, bicameral passage, meaning passage of the same bill in the House and in the Senate.

Secondly, you have to present that to the President, who can then sign it, veto it, or acquiesce to it.

Now,

that should be simple, right?

Because Article 1, Sections 1 and 7 make that clear.

And yet for the last 85 years or so, Congress has been in this death spiral of delegating its lawmaking powers.

In we will say things like, well, we shall have good law in Area X, and we hereby delegate to Agency Y the power to make good law in that area.

That's nonsense.

That makes the work easier for members of Congress, and it insulates members of Congress from political accountability

the wrong ways.

But even more, does it not violate my right to representation?

No taxation without representation.

100%.

Because these people who make most of your laws, measured by weight, volume, regulatory compliance costs, you name it, are now made by men and women, not of our own choosing.

This is a real problem.

Remember what Madison said in Federal 62?

Of course I do.

He said it in the click.

He said, it'll be of little avail to the American people that their laws may be written by men of their own choosing.

If those laws be so gluminous, complex, and ever-changing, they can't know from one day to the next what the law says and what it requires.

We don't live in that.

dystopian nightmare.

100,000 pages a year is what these bureaucratic pinheads put out every year.

And not only are they so ever-changing, you can't know what the law says from one day to the next, they're not even written by men and women of our own choosing.

This is tyranny of the sort that would have made King George III blush with envy.

These guys are tyrants, and we've got to take it back.

Okay.

It is Congress's fault.

Congress must fix that.

Congress may fix it and must fix it by passing the Reigns Act.

Okay, so give me four things, these four things that are now in the Reigns Act.

It includes the new defense for individuals, which means.

Yeah, okay, so the affirmative defense for individuals.

If you are sued, remember these laws put out by the bureaucratic print heads.

If you violate them, they can put you in prison.

They can fine you millions of dollars.

They can shut down your business.

The new provision of the Reigns Act that I inserted last year

would allow an individual who had one of these enforced against him or her to raise as an affirmative defense, hey, I wasn't on notice.

You have to be adequately placed on notice.

It's one of the hallmark characteristics of due process.

You're placed adequately on notice as to what your obligation is.

And the way you need to be placed on notice is that something is passed by both houses of Congress and then given to the president for signature.

And if you can point out that the affirmative legal obligations in that regulation were not evident on the face of any statute passed by Congress, then you could use that as a defense and you can be let off the hook for that.

This is as it should be.

But currently, you can go to prison or have your business shut down if you don't comply with whatever the bureaucratic commitments tell you you have to do.

Right.

And this is where it gets scary because show me the person, I'll show you the crime.

There's so much on the books that you don't even know that they can just put you away for it, correct?

No, that's exactly right.

And I tell some stories.

There came a book about 10 years ago called Our Lost Constitution.

It

tells some stories about, among other things, a father and son construction duo who were building houses in Florida's Escambia Bay.

And they ran afoul of one of these regulations.

They were not on notice of it.

They both ended up serving prison time just for clearing some land.

They hadn't even built anything on it yet.

They started to clear some land to get ready to dig a foundation

for some homes.

They had no reason to believe they were violating any regulation, but unbeknownst to them, Some bureaucratic pinhead had designated that a wetland area, even though it didn't have any visible wetland characteristics, and they went to prison for it.

This is exactly the kind of thing the RAINS Act would protect you from.

You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck podcast.

Hear more of this interview and others with the full show podcast available wherever you get podcasts.

Vivek Ramaswamy, the Ohio gubernatorial candidate, Strive Asset Manager, co-founder, also, I would say, the co-founder or co-designer of Doge.

And a good friend of the program.

Vivek, how are you?

Good to talk to you, Glenn.

How you been?

Really good.

Really good.

So I got a lot to talk to you about.

First of all, why do you want to be the governor of Ohio?

Well, look, I think that Donald Trump is doing a great job as U.S.

president, but that means that a lot of federal programs are going to come down from Washington, D.C., from education to healthcare, back to the states and to the people where they belong.

That's one of the things that I saw in my early effort in helping get Doge off the ground is the same thing.

Federalism is the way forward to our golden age, and that is going to require strong governors to actually step up and do their job in leading and managing education, for example, in the right way.

And so I was born and raised in Ohio.

It's where I'm raising my two sons today.

I think it's one of the better states in the Midwest, but I want to lead Ohio to be the top state in the country to raise a young family, to grow a business, and to live the American dream that I have.

That's why I'm in it.

Yeah.

I mean, he's, I don't know.

I mean, it's kind of like conservative porn here.

He's

talking about returning the power to the states and cutting all those federal programs.

Oh, yeah.

So,

Vaig.

The way the government is going, I mean, I hope that Doge actually does the job, and I hope we finish the job here.

We've got so much we have to cut.

I mean, trillions of dollars we have to cut and return that power to the state.

Everybody's saying this is going to be chaos.

As the governor of Ohio, how do you prepare for what is coming so it's not chaos?

What has to be done?

I have to admit, I think the job is going to be far easier for me at the state level than it is doing it at the federal level, which is a gargantuan project.

But I do think that giving taxpayers the transparency, first of all, how their money is being spent, fixing the regulatory state, all that's required.

At the level of Ohio, I think this is actually immediately achievable in ways that improve people's lives, right?

I'm into bringing the American dream back to Ohio.

How do we do it?

Slash every bit of red tape in the state.

I mean, think about the over-regulation that comes from that bureaucracy.

That is the easiest thing we could fix right out the gate.

18 to 36 months for a natural gas pipeline, that should be six months or less.

I haven't met a single person in Ohio.

I haven't met a single person in the country, Glenn, who says that we have too little red tape.

I've met a lot of people, especially business owners, who will tell you that there is too much red tape.

And so I do think that this idea that this is just an academic project, no, it's not just academic solutions to address a deficit number or a debt number or a GDP number.

I think these are vital improvements to our economic and social fabric so that little league teams no longer have to shut down because they can't find a local company to sponsor them because they went to another state with a more favorable regulatory environment.

So a mom doesn't have have to think twice before having a second or third kid for fear of the cost of a bigger car because the tax rate's too high in the state.

So, one of the things I want to do is to drive the income tax rate down, eventually down to zero, like eight other states that have done the same thing.

Back the property tax burden.

It's your land, not the government's.

It is your money, not the government's.

And I don't think that those should be controversial things to say.

Hang on, Tango, just a second.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Talk to me about property taxes again.

What is your plan on property taxes?

Well, property taxes in Ohio, so this is a problem in our state in particular, have gotten way too high.

So many people are paying as much money on their interest plus principal repayment as they are on their property tax.

And it makes you feel like you're not owning your land anymore.

Your owned land feels like you're leasing it from the government, which is un-American.

So that's exactly what we're taking aim at.

I have to tell you, I think property...

It's about putting the money back in the pockets of people's hands.

I think property tax is absolutely immoral.

You cannot.

It's an American.

It is.

I don't actually own anything if it can be taken from me because of tax.

I mean, that is like, isn't that the story of Robin Hood?

I mean, this, it's actually funny you say that.

You know, John Locke was probably one of the intellectual progenitors of our country's founding, as you're well aware.

And the ownership of private property was foundational to the formation of the United States of America.

And so I think we would do well to remember those basic time test principles.

Capitalism is the greatest system known to man to lift us up from poverty.

We've started to apologize for that as well.

No, I want Ohio, and look, I say this for Ohio, but I say this because it has a national significance too, Glenn, is I want Ohio to set the standard for the rest of the country where we embrace property rights, where we embrace capitalism and meritocracy instead of apologizing for it.

And the beauty of our system is that so much of saving our country actually has to come from the level of the states, has to come from the people.

That's what James Madison envisioned.

That's what our founding fathers envisioned.

So I think federalism is the way.

The path to our golden age runs through federalism.

And that's why, look, I think that saving this country is a team effort.

That's why I chose to run for this position after great conversations with President Trump, with Elon.

Frankly, both of them, they came out within hours of my announcement, within an hour to both endorse, and I was proud to receive their support and others statewide here as well.

But that's because this is going to be a team effort to save the country.

And I do think leadership at the level of the states, especially starting a year or two from now, after a lot of those programs have been pushed back down to the states and the people where they belong.

I do see a bit of a leadership gap there.

And that's a big part of why I was called into this.

And we're going to set a national standard.

We can can call it the Ohio standard.

We can call it a modern-day Northwest ordinance.

But a conservative state, when governed according to conservative principles, actually, can be a magnet for the rest of the country.

Okay, I've got a serious question for you.

But first, an even more serious question.

Every time I've ever endorsed any candidate, they always lose.

So what is my non-endorsement worth to you, Vive?

Your friendship is worth a lot to me, Franklin.

And we'd love to have you in Ohio.

We'll turn that into a Midas touchdown.

So I do want to talk to you about something that you are

qualified to answer.

And I think there are very few people that are qualified that people trust and know that can speak on this.

You know, Musk came out and talked about the singularity on Sunday and said we are on the event horizon of the singularity.

For anybody who really understands what's coming our way in the next three to five years, the world will be completely different in ways that none of us can imagine

in five years from now.

How do we explain this to the American people?

And how do you prepare a state

to

be nimble enough to be able to adapt?

I mean, I really believe we're at the very beginning here of a maybe

18 to 36 month change where at the end of these 36 months, it's going to be entirely different and people will have to understand you either adapt right now or you're out.

So how do you

either you're playing from the front and you're shaping that change or else you're going to be shaped by that change.

And

the leader and it's huge.

The difference is massive than it than we've ever seen before.

Right.

Absolutely.

So it's interesting about a position of from the perspective of state leadership, right?

As the next governor of Ohio.

I want Ohio to be the state where we use AI not to take jobs, but to make jobs.

And what I mean by that is there's a lot of focus on a lot of investment across the country and the world into algorithmic improvement, into actually improving the computational power driving new AI algorithms.

And that's important.

Where I don't think we've invested enough is how to apply that AI, how to use that next generation of intelligence to apply it to their respective fields from healthcare to financial services to construction design.

And there you're talking about using skilled workers who are already in this state that don't have to be programming the next generation of AI.

We can train the AI.

What I want to do is to train the human beings on how to use that AI and apply it to enhance their own productivity on their own terms.

And I think that last part is really important, Glenn, as we're headed to the future.

The future's coming whether we like it or not.

Do you want to be dragged by it or do you want to shape it?

And I want to be a leader who helps us shape it to harness the power of that so as governor what do you do yeah what do you do to to encourage that to to you know oh has a lot of blue-collar jobs sure

sure so i think one of the things we need to do is invest in workforce training and education and allow the private sector to already do it by getting out of the way eliminate occupational licensing requirements but also I want this to be the state where two things are true, Glenn.

And too often, even on the right, sometimes we make this an either or.

I want this to be the state where we say both of these paths are open.

I want Ohio to be the top state in the country when it comes to our universities.

For somebody who wants to become an engineer or a doctor or a computer programmer, that's great.

That should be open to them here.

And that goes through a traditional bachelor's degree and maybe PhD degrees too.

And that's great.

It's not that that's elite and bad.

That's a good thing.

But we also want to be the state that has two and one year and even six months or nine month vocational programs that train people to be an electrician or a welder or a builder and give them also in their respective fields even the training needed know how to use that AI, how to use that next generation of technology to apply it to their respective fields.

That's what true modernization looks like.

So I don't want to fall in this camp and say, oh, well, that technological revolution is for somebody else.

No.

How do we harness the fruits of that to actually improve our own lives, even in fields that weren't traditionally thought to necessarily be technologically forward fields?

I want to change that attitude.

And, you know, it's not either or.

It's not one is more elite than the other.

We're all elite in the way I look at it.

I don't refer to the other professions as the trades.

I call them the professions because that's what they are.

They deserve the same degree of dignity and respect.

But at the same time, it's not going to be by chasing our past.

It is going to be by leading us to chase our future.

And I do think that requires a new generation of leadership.

And at the state level, it's a big part of why I'm stepping into what I see as a leadership vacuum.

So I think Donald Trump has ushered in a completely new era that is not even ⁇ nobody even begins to understand it yet.

I mean, I think he's going to be remembered as our first real technology president, and he is changing everything about the system, and it's long needed to be changed.

But when he comes to, like last night in the House, they passed a budget.

The budget really,

I mean, I guess it's a step in the right direction, but it's still growing the deficit.

And, you know, it has some good things in it, but it also has some other bad things.

You have Congressman Davidson from

Ohio that voted against it last night.

And part of me is with Massey and people like that are like, hey, you know what?

We've got to cut, cut, cut.

How do we get

America or the people of Ohio or the Congress and the Senate to understand trillions of dollars need to be cut?

No more eating around the edges.

Trillions of dollars need to be cut.

How do we get there?

Well, the truth is one of the paths is grow, grow, grow.

It goes to that spirit that you talked about.

That's where I think as a great leader of a state, you can at least help in that regard, where if you're depressing economic growth, then your debt-to-GDP ratio becomes even worse because your GDP growth rates are lower.

So one of the areas to focus on is just robust economic growth through mass deregulation, through mass unlocking of private sector potential, through slashing and burning bureaucracy wherever necessary.

And that's one positive side.

On the other side, though, Glenn, and you raise a good point here, I would just say there are ways to rationalize the budget that actually lift people up in the process.

I'll give you one example, and I'm going to lead the way here in Ohio on this front, is reattaching work requirements to welfare, Medicaid, and other forms of aid.

I think it is not compassion.

It is cruelty to increase somebody's dependence on the government.

The way we're going to save our country is not through greater dependence on the government, but independence from it.

We're not victims.

We have this victimhood mentality that then justifies that dependence.

We're done with that victimhood culture.

We got to move on.

We're victors, not victims.

We don't whine.

We win.

You help somebody stand up on their own two feet.

That's a great way.

You're looking at a lot of the spending in Medicaid, a lot of spending in welfare.

It's a great way to bring down spending.

But even more importantly, it is an even better way to help those Americans too actually realize the American dream rather than to be permanently dependent on a state that serves as a ceiling for what they're able to achieve in their lives.

And there, a lot of that does have to be done and led at the state level.

The federal government, there's a role to play.

But I think there's also an important role for what does a leader look like who has the spine to step up and actually do that.

Ohio is a state that doesn't have work requirements attached to Medicaid right now.

That needs to change.

And so that's the way I'm looking to lead is to bring back that culture of work, end the war on work, and that does two things.

One is it enhances economic productivity and GDP growth.

The other thing it does is it brings down our debt and our spending.

But the third and most important thing it does is it brings back our sense of national spirit and self-worth and individual self-confidence.

For so many who have lost that in this culture of victimhood and entitlement and dependence on the government, it's time for us to graduate from the era of dependence and move back to our era of independence.

Think about that as a modern-day Declaration of Independence from the government, a modern-day Northwest ordinance centered right here in Ohio.

That's where I want to lead us.

And I personally think, Glenn, a lot of politically homeless people, independents, libertarians, not just Republicans, maybe even some orphaned Reagan Democrats, will come along with us for this ride.

And I think that's a good thing.

Vivek, you know, we met each other maybe five years ago, and I really liked you then, but I wasn't sure.

I wanted to watch you for a while.

I know who you are, and I'm not going to endorse you because I like you too much,

you know, to endorse, but I will tell you, I am on your train.

I just think you would be great for Ohio.

And so it's an endorsement without being an endorsement because I don't want to jinx your candidacy.

But

I appreciate that.

Best of luck.

That means a lot to me.

And we'll hopefully set a good example and learn some lessons from Texas as well.

Thank you.

All right.

Bye-bye.

Vivek Vivek Ramaswamy, now running for governor.

You can find out all you need to know about him at V-I-V-E-K, Vivek4Ohio.com, Vivek4ohio.com.

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