BONUS EPISODE | Tulsi Gabbard | 'The Tucker Carlson Podcast'

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So try to think back to 2013.

It wasn't that long ago.

We had air travel and electricity and air conditioning.

It was part of the modern era.

2013, Tulsi Gabbard, who was in her early 30s, had just been elected from Hawaii.

She was a member of Congress, first termer, a Democrat.

And not just a Democrat, she was the single most famous freshman that year.

And she was feted by her party.

The Democratic Party made her vice chair of the DNC

as a freshman that year.

And she was on the cover of magazine.

She was the future of the Democratic Party.

That was 2013.

Fast forward 11 years.

to the beginning of 2024, that very same person was a headliner at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Committee.

And not only did she speak there, she was arguably the most popular person who spoke there this year, 11 years later.

Here's part of what she said.

Our democracy is under attack.

The perpetrators of this attack are those who, in the name of saving our democracy, are destroying it.

I don't use these words lightly.

Every one of us who loves this country and who cherishes peace and freedom should be very alarmed by those who, driven by their insatiable hunger for power, are actively undermining all that we stand for.

And almost every single day, if you're paying attention to the news and the headlines, there is some new assault and some new attack.

Now it's the Democrat elite and the swamp creatures in Washington who are doing all that they possibly can to keep us, the American people, from a very simple thing, having the freedom to choose who we want to be our next president

and it is clear through their actions they have no respect for us and they have no respect for our fundamental rights as citizens of this democratic republic

they are so terrified that we the people may make what they think is the wrong choice.

That in the name of protecting democracy and saving us from ourselves, they're actually destroying our democracy and taking away our freedom.

Wow, you can see why she was the most popular speaker at CPAC this year.

But again, 11 years from vice chair of the DNC to headlining CPAC.

Some people have asked, well, wait a second, that's awfully fast.

This must be an op.

She must be a secret lefty or a CIA agent.

Well, of course, we can't know.

But if she was, she'd probably be getting something out of it.

She'd be really rich.

But no, Tulsi Gabbard is probably the least rich, famous person in the United States.

She is not cashed in, just the opposite.

She's actually really suffered for her change of heart.

So what was the process that led her from

freshman in Congress 11 years ago to headliner at CPAC this year?

It's a very interesting story.

And she's written it in a book that has just come out, For Love of Country, Leave the Democratic Party Behind.

And she's joining us today to explain what exactly happened in her life.

Tulsi Gabbard joins us now.

Thank you very much.

Tulsi Gabbard, thank you so much.

And congrats on the book.

And I have to say, the first thing that jumped out, Tulsi is one of the most rock-solid, honorable people I've ever met, says Joe Rogan.

And

I can attest to that.

That is true.

Thank you.

I feel the same way.

Thank you.

So how, but I can also see why people are like, what is this?

Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard from Hawaii,

probably the most reliably democratic liberal state argument there, maybe, but subjective, but pretty close if not the most

and now this like what happened it's it's you know a lot has happened in that 11 years as you were talking i'm just thinking through like gosh has it only been

has it only been 10 11 years but uh it to me it just shows how insane today's democratic party has become yes really truly you know i joined the democratic party uh in 2002 i was 21 years old when i ran for the state house in Hawaii.

And as you know, I come from, you know, my parents are very independent-minded people.

They raised all of us, five kids, to be critical thinkers and independent-minded.

Make your own decision, but do your research and figure out why you are coming to this conclusion or why you are coming to this decision.

And so, when I had decided to run for office in Hawaii,

there wasn't just like, well, of course I'm going to be a part of this party or that party because, you know, somebody told me to or because it was like a family generational thing.

None of that was there.

And so I really started to look at

Hawaii's history in politics.

Why was Hawaii such a strong democratic state?

As it still is now, it's a little bit less so.

But

at that time, what I saw was a party that welcomed free thinkers.

It was truly a big tent party, even in their own words.

It was a party that stood up for civil liberties.

It's a party that stood up for freedom of speech and was willing to fight for it.

That is true.

It was a party that in Hawaii's history fought for working people.

It fought for average everyday Americans against the corporate industrial complex, which in Hawaii was the big four plantation owners back in the day.

And so it was because of those reasons and looking at leaders like JFK.

Can I just ask you a question?

For people who aren't familiar with the history of the state, which is actually very interesting,

it's completely different from the history of any other of the 49 states.

Yes.

It was almost like a feudal system in Hawaii.

Is that fair?

It was.

It was.

And going back, and this is where there was a big shift.

And people in the political world ask all the time is like, why, why did Hawaii become such a strong democrat state?

It was because there were four major landowners that came in and essentially took the land from the local people through the queen in jail and decided, okay, well, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to start growing sugarcane.

We're going to start growing pineapples.

And they essentially installed themselves as the government of what was then the territory of Hawaii.

And local people really didn't have a whole lot of say in it.

But through that process, there were immigrants coming from Japan and from the Philippines, from Portugal, from places all over the world, seeking opportunity, getting work visas and work contracts to go and work in the fields.

And these massive plantation owners essentially treated them like crap.

Subhuman living conditions, abysmal pay, and essentially essentially what we would call complete abuse in this day and age.

But they got away with it because the people had no voice.

When one group started to rise up and say, hey, we got to stick together and demand better living conditions and better pay,

let's say it was the Filipinos who did it.

And they said, okay, well, fine.

We're just going to have the Japanese workers come in and take over your fields and leave you with nothing.

And so pitting one group against the other.

So in Hawaii,

it was the ILWU union primarily that came in and actually started to organize workers.

And there was a

couple of Democrat political leaders who had failed at the polls previously because they didn't have the votes.

They came in and said, hey, look, we're going to fight for you.

And they did.

And that was when Hawaii shifted from Republican to Democrat control because the Democrat Party at that time was the party of the people.

Didn't matter where you were from.

Didn't matter your background, how much money you made, or didn't make your education or anything else.

They were the party of the people battling against

the elite.

And so

the reason why this story is important is because you look at that legacy in my home state of Hawaii, and then you look at what's happening in our politics today, where unfortunately the Democrat Party and those in charge of it are now the party of the elite who are way out of touch with the experience of everyday working people across this country.

And

it is unfortunate,

it is unfortunate that that party has gotten so far away from its roots, its roots of being a party that celebrated freedom, its roots of being a party that fought for civil liberties to one now where with the Biden-Harris administration and the Democrat elite across Washington are intentionally

politicizing and weaponizing the tools of our own government and their friends in big tech and social media and their friends in the mainstream media to take away our freedoms, to take away our right to free speech, to violate our privacy and our civil liberties.

They have become the party of war.

In every respect,

unfortunately, the Democrat Party has become a party that is undermining the very fabric of our country, of our freedom, of our Constitution and the rule of law,

which is why ultimately I left the Democratic Party and

it's why I am sounding the alarm bells as we head into this very critical election year about really what's at stake.

The reason that I know you're sincere is because you left the Democratic Party at exactly the moment that it solidified its position as the party of the rich.

And there's so many rewards that you can receive if you sign up.

So I know a a million people who've moved in the other direction, you know, Joe Scarborough or Stuart Stevens or Steve Schmidt or all the guys from the Lincoln Project, Bill Crystal.

Right.

And they've all been rewarded for it a lot because there's a lot of money to pass around if you do that.

But you left at exactly the moment when you could have gotten kind of rich by staying and reading the talking points.

Yeah.

When I first got elected in

2012,

it was a race that I was not supposed to win.

If you listen to anybody who knew anything about politics.

And I won that election

with zero support from any

local or national Democratic Party individuals or the party as a whole.

It was, imagine this.

The people's voices were heard through their votes.

And they were sick and tired of the pay-to-play corrupt politics and

wanted a new direction and a fresh direction of leadership.

And so it was a hard-fought election,

but I had no idea what was in store when I actually went to Washington.

So, what did you notice?

I mean, hold on a second.

Well, first of all,

it's just so far

physically from D.C.

It is.

It is.

And you would think in the age of technology that distance wouldn't matter so much, but it kind of does

in some ways.

But shortly after my primary election, I got a call from Nancy Pelosi saying, hey, do you want to

speak during prime time at the Democratic Convention coming up?

And I was like,

yes.

How old were you?

I was 31.

What a trip.

That must be.

And I said I would like to speak about veterans.

I was serving in the Hawaii National Guard at the time.

I'm still serving in the U.S.

Army Reserve now.

But to me, hey, here's an opportunity to speak to millions of people across the country about the people who are nearest and dearest to my heart, my brothers and sisters.

And so the whole thing was, it was quite surreal because I didn't, I didn't seek it out.

I didn't know, I didn't know how that machine worked,

but I found myself getting these phone calls

from people within the Democratic Party, like,

hey, go and speak at this like premier event that like most people don't get invitations to.

And a couple of weeks after I was in office, I got a call saying, hey, what would you say if you were asked to serve as vice chair of the DNC?

And I was just literally my response was, like, what does a vice chair of the DNC do?

I don't know nothing about this.

What do you really want from me?

What are you asking of me?

Ultimately, said yes, because this is an opportunity to be in a position to make some positive change.

But these kinds of things kept on happening over

the, yeah, it was kind of my first year, first couple of years in office.

But, and you'll appreciate this:

one of the major turning points

that started to slow down the

fanfare and like the the headlines of like, I remember there was one at the Democratic convention.

I don't know if it was CNN or MSM.

Someone was like, oh, I wonder who's going to play Tulsi Gabbard in a movie and like all this stuff.

I'm like, this is so weird.

But that summer of 2013, my first year in Congress,

As you know, one of the main reasons that I ran for Congress was because of the experiences that I'd had on both of my Middle East deployments where I experienced the cost of war firsthand serving in a medical unit.

And I wanted to be in a position where I could help influence and impact those foreign policy decisions that were directly impacting my brothers and sisters in uniform.

I didn't realize that

My opportunity to be able to do that would happen so quickly.

But it was August of 2013 that President Obama announced, then President Obama announced that he was going to seek authorization to use military force from Congress to go and drop some bombs on Syria in what would be kind of the first volley of regime change war there.

And

I was on the Foreign Affairs Committee at the time, August.

Most members of Congress are at home during recess, and I was home in my district.

And I remember like it was yesterday,

pumping gas at the gas station.

And this woman came up to me, and I've never met her before.

Local lady came, she grabbed my arm and looked at me with this intensity in her eyes,

telling me that her son had just come home from Iraq

and she had been terrified that he wouldn't come home.

He was finally home with her.

And now

they wanted to send him back to another war in another country and begged me, please, Tulsi, don't let them take my son from me.

Jeez.

And

as the next couple of days went on, I would bump into more people like that in the supermarket or just around town

who were absolutely terrified.

I went back to Washington.

We held all the committee hearings, open hearings, classified briefings, and I went in with an open mind saying, give me all of the information.

I want to make sure that I do my due diligence before I take a position or make a decision on this.

And ultimately,

Secretary Kerry came in and briefed us the answers to very direct questions that I had, such as,

what is our objective?

What is your objective?

in wanting to go and start another war in another country?

How do you think they will respond?

What will you do next?

What is that second, third, fourth order of effects and consequences that will always happen?

And the question,

you know, when I said, what is your objective?

I believe it was Secretary Kerry or someone from the State Department who said, well, you know, we don't want to deliver a decapitation.

We don't want it to be a pinprick.

We want this to be a punch in the gut and send a message.

And my question was, okay, so a punch in the gut,

like

what will you do when they respond?

They said, well, we don't think they'll, we don't think there will be a response.

That's your plan?

You don't think there will be a response?

Gary said that.

If somebody came up and punched you in the gut, would you like just not respond?

If they don't respond, they've got some pretty, you know, weaponized, powerful friends.

uh you don't think they'll respond and what if they don't respond to us but they respond by attacking some of our friends who may be in the region all of these different kinds of questions there's like well we just don't think they'll do that well what happens next well you know we think this will send a strong message and and it's the same kind of like political

bs talk

that means nothing and is so disconnected from the reality of the people on the ground who have to live with those consequences.

And it really surprised me.

And maybe I shouldn't have been surprised, but it surprised me that after so many years of looking back at the massive mistakes of Iraq, that they could be so glib and just saying, oh, we'll just go drop some bombs and send a message and that'll be it.

They learned nothing.

They learned nothing.

And so I penned an op-ed and published it.

And I was certainly the first Democrat, maybe the first member of Congress to come out in opposition to President Obama's request.

And within hours of publishing that op-ed, I got a call from the White House.

And essentially,

what they said was, how dare you?

How dare you go against your president?

How dare you go against the president who came from your home state?

Not a moment of the conversation.

There wasn't much of a conversation, first of all, but they were not interested at all in the reason for my opposition, which I stated pretty clearly in the op-ed how well

thought out this decision was.

It was not made haphazardly.

They weren't interested in my experience that I brought that helped inform my decision of having deployed twice to the Middle East before.

And it told me a lot about them that they were more concerned with and they cared more about like being a good member of the team and go team Obama and go team Democrats than they were concerned about

the actual consequences of the very serious request that he was saying he would come to Congress with.

It sent a strong message to them as well that I wasn't the person that they thought I was going to be.

And someone who could be puppeteered, who could be bullied into

just going along with the boss or whatever they had in mind.

That was kind of the beginning of their realization that, okay,

this one thinks for herself and she's not afraid to take a stand.

So, I mean, at that point, you know, they have two options.

They can either try and crush you, you're a freshman, so it's a little early for that.

And they've also ginned up the publicity machine on your behalf.

You probably weren't even aware of this, but

Most people come, most congressmen come to Washington, no one ever hears, no one knows they're there.

Yeah.

Everyone knew you were there.

Yeah.

So they can try and crush you or they can try and suborn you, bribe you, give you stuff to win you over.

Yeah.

What did they try?

You know, it's, it is kind of the public things.

Like I remember, and I think you'll get a kick out of this, being invited to the White House correspondence dinner my first year in Congress.

Yeah.

I had guys who've been in Congress coming up to me saying, gosh, Tulsi, how come you got invited?

I've been here for four terms, eight years, and I still haven't gotten invited to that.

And I was, you know, I was like, do you want to go?

I really don't like going to these kind of things.

I hate these big kind of parties and social things.

Like, you can have my seat.

But, but it was that kind of thing where, oh, go to this embassy for this fancy party, like all this stuff that unfortunately too many members of Congress

find very, very appealing and

get some kind of,

I don't know, I don't want to use the word fulfillment because it's not fulfilling, but I guess

it's what they want.

And I didn't want any of that.

So the things that they were putting before me

were not attractive to me at all.

And

it all kind of definitely came crashing down in 2016

when I took a step

to go after Hillary Clinton when she was running for president in the Democratic primary.

I was vice chair of the DNC, and I saw that the mainstream media,

they were all saying she was the most qualified person ever to run for president and listing out all of the titles that she has held, but not a single one of them was questioning or holding to her account, holding her to account for her record on foreign policy or challenging her on what kind of commander-in-chief she was.

Sure, or the job that she had done in any of those jobs.

Like, right, was irrelevant.

And then, right, the actual record of what happened.

Tell us what happened in Libya, actually,

for you, you know, for her pushing for the regime change in Libya and what happened as a consequence.

There are so many different examples.

For sure.

So, so you said that out loud.

What happened then?

I resigned as vice chair of the DNC.

Why?

Because the rules said that as officers of the DNC, you can't take sides in a partisan primary.

The DNC itself under W.

Wassum

clearly was

in every way tilting the scales for Hillary Clinton.

But I resigned as vice chair of the DNC and endorsed Bernie Sanders around this single issue of foreign policy.

Yes.

Specifically because while I disagreed with Bernie on a bunch of things, he was certainly more of a non-interventionist than the warmonger that Hillary Clinton is.

And I knew that would provide me with a platform to have a voice and actually speak the truth to the American people about her record and how dangerous she would be if she were ever our president and how

personal

this was for me because the cost is real.

So, what happened when you did that?

I did, I announced it on Meet the Press on a Sunday morning.

Didn't tell anybody I was doing it, no one, before I went and

made that announcement on that show.

Monday morning, came back to work, and

a lot of my Democrat colleagues were basically reading,

you know,

drafting their political eulogies for me.

Just like, you're done.

You're done, Tulsi.

Uh, Hillary will be president.

You will not get a single dime for your district, anything that your community needs.

For your district, for my district, not for your campaign, not for me, for my district.

They've never given me anything for any of my campaigns, and I'm totally fine with that.

But that my district and my constituency in Hawaii would be punished for

doing what I did.

I also learned that there is an actual list of people who are,

you know,

blacklisted, I suppose.

And I was told that it would take years and years and years to ever work my way off that list.

I was chuckling at people.

Oh, they said this out loud.

They thought this when they said it out loud.

Oh, yeah, no, no, no.

These were many conversations walking to and from votes with different people who are pulling me aside and offering their condolences, their political condolences to me,

because

I had made a decision that they said would be

equal to

the death of my political future.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

MSNBC, I remember doing an interview, I think it was one of the first debates that Bernie and Hillary had

in Florida, I think it was.

And an MSNBC anchor said, like, aren't you afraid of the Clintons and what they'll do?

And I said, no, I'm not afraid.

But I thought it was quite curious that he felt compelled to ask that question with concern in his voice.

Yeah, well, people who've been around them knew.

Yeah.

So

you still, though, were in the party.

When did it become clear, like, I can't represent this party anymore?

It was in the fall of 2022.

There were a lot of critical midterm elections happening that year increasingly over time.

And it wasn't one specific thing that caused me to make this decision, but it was increasingly over time

a couple of things.

Obviously, the radical change that the Democratic Party leadership went through

in really truly become a woke warmongering party of the elite.

But also, it was

It was a recognition that I had done all I could to

try to change the party from within.

I tried as vice chair of the DNC.

I tried as a candidate running for president in 2020 in the Democratic primary.

And

the things that I was talking about, about bringing the party back to its roots, bringing the party back to being the party of the people and the party of freedom, the party of peace and security.

It not only fell on deaf ears, I was booed by

the party elite for having the audacity to push for these sorts sorts of things.

Yeah, you're, this is a very restrained version of what I saw.

They didn't just boo you.

They accused you of being an agent for a foreign power and a disloyal American and an evil person.

Yeah.

I mean, I saw that.

It's true.

And it,

you know, it's, it's such a crazy, crazy accusation to make, obviously completely baseless.

And the media never asked Hillary Clinton for evidence of this traitorous, treasonous act that she's accusing me of as a sitting member of Congress and as a soldier wearing our country's uniform.

Yeah, an officer, right?

Yes.

And

here's

the problem is, is that it works.

And that's why they continue, even now, how many years later, they continue to fall back on the Russia-Russia playbook.

It's a Russian asset.

They've used this against you.

They've used this against Donald Trump.

And they continue to come back to this.

Yeah, but I'm not an officer in the United States Army, and you are.

So it's a little weird to say, I mean, Hillary Clinton, I will never forget it, accused you of being a disloyal person.

That's a crime under the military code, I think.

It is.

Yeah.

It is.

And one that would not only be grounds for them to remove my security clearance, but it would be grounds for discharge and it would be grounds for

you know, enforcement under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Yeah, if you're actually working for a foreign power as a military officer, you can be executed for it.

So, like, it's not a small thing to say.

So, rather than just saying, you know, Tulsi Gabbard's an idiot or I disagree with her or whatever, they went right to that, the heaviest thing you could ever say about somebody, about an American.

That was all foreign policy related, right?

Yes.

That's the way it felt to me.

It was foreign policy-related,

and it was related to the fact that

I had the audacity to go against them, to challenge the elite of the Democratic Party, which is Hillary Clinton and it's Barack Obama and

it's the people who surround them in the military industrial complex, in the media industrial complex, those who are pushing.

And it's not limited to the Democratic Party, of course.

Mitt Romney also called me a treasonous

person who is a Russian asset or something along those lines.

So,

you know,

they are all part of this permanent Washington elite

who

cannot allow for

those who challenge them to go unscathed

because

their whole existence is based around that.

It's based around power and where they get their power from.

And the main source of power, obviously, is the exercise of military force.

Yes.

it's the most powerful thing.

We are the most powerful military in the world.

And that's what's so offensive about them and what they're advocating for is

they treat our military,

it's like, and actually, I don't want to say they forget because they're not stupid.

They really don't care about the men and women who make up our military and who live and die by the consequences of their actions,

whether they're holding office or not.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are not in office right now, but they still continue to wield immense power in influencing the decisions that are being made.

So can I just sort of sidebar, but I think relevant and interesting.

Are you answering the question that everyone watching has, which is who is running the government at this point?

It's obviously not Joe Biden.

You think Hillary Clinton.

It's not a leap of imagination to know that that's true when you look at the people who are in Joe Biden's administration.

They are the people who were the right hands for the Obama administration, for President Obama, and for Hillary Clinton.

When Hillary Clinton said herself the other day, she said, oh, yeah, I talk to the White House every day.

So it is no shock or surprise who the influences are behind the policies that are coming out of this White House that many people say is is the most radical and woke White House that our country has ever seen.

There's no question about it.

But as this was happening to you,

I mean, I'm sure you didn't want to go to the White House correspondence dinner.

Good for you.

Tiresome.

But on the other hand, it is a lot easier and much more pleasant to be loved than it is to be hated.

I think it's just true.

And so as you became like really hated by the leadership of the Democratic Party and they weren't hiding it at all,

did you ever think like maybe it's just easier to kind of pretend bombing Syria is a good idea?

Did you ever question your decision to say no?

No.

I knew that that would be true.

I knew that there was certainly an easier path to take.

You think?

It was kind of laid out for me when I first got there.

But I never second-guessed my decision, my decisions about these different positions that I took.

I never regretted them.

Never, not to this day.

And I never will, because I didn't go to Washington to be loved by the people who live and exist and thrive in that bubble.

Well, sure, I get it.

And their love is not worth having.

I totally agree.

But their money's good.

Yeah.

And I think you're the only famous person I've ever met who flies coach.

And you're certainly the only very, very well-known member of Congress and former presidential candidate I've ever met in my entire life who didn't cash in personally and I know that is factually true.

So like, do you ever think like maybe, I don't know, it's easier to fly first class.

Maybe I should have just.

It's not worth it.

Okay.

It's not worth it.

Do you think it's weird that we never talk about the money involved?

Like, I just know that from living there.

Yeah.

And from knowing a lot of well-known people who've, you know, become famous in politics.

Yeah.

And there's not not one of them, not one, not literally not one on either side who's not in the top 1% for income, but you're not.

No.

Why doesn't anyone ever say that?

Yeah.

Because

it is the assumed norm.

It's not the exception.

What they're doing is the norm.

So why would they talk about it?

There's nothing to talk about because they assume that every member of Congress, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, the day you walk out, you get your payday.

What did you get when you walked out?

Nothing.

Nothing.

I had to come up with a plan of, you know, like, all right, we got to figure out how we're going to pay the bills.

How much, how much money had you amassed during your trip?

Oh, Congress.

You know, every financial advisor would probably

be very disappointed.

Cause, you know, my husband and I were, you know, I had like, okay, we got a couple of months.

We got a couple of months that we can make it through.

We got to come up with, we got to come up with a plan.

Otherwise.

Before you'd have to sell your weekend house?

sure

the imaginary weekend house

yeah no it's were you able to buy a big house when you're in congress of uh no no

no

we had we we bought a house um

i don't think you ever came to our house there but but here here's i'll give you a little hint where uh and we shared it with my sister and her husband uh but we did buy a house in a in a neighborhood that was affordable in dc and we found out the first week that we were there that we tried to order takeout from someone.

Oh, oh, in D.C.

Oh, you lived in the hood.

I knew that.

And as soon as they were like, okay, put the order in and everything else.

And as soon as I gave them the address, they're like, oh, no, we don't deliver to that neighborhood.

We won't cross that bridge.

We won't cross the Anacostia Bridge.

to get to your house.

You lived on what we said, what we call the other side of the river.

Literally.

Anyway, it's, you know, there was a question that a reporter asked me a couple of years, I forget two or three years after I'd been in Congress.

They're like, okay, you've been here a while now.

You know, do you feel like you fit in?

And it was a surprising question to me.

And I said, no,

I don't ever want to fit in here.

This is not like, this is not my home.

I'm grateful to get out of here as quickly as possible, as soon as votes are done, as often as possible, get back to my community in Hawaii or get out and visit other communities in the country and

remain very closely connected to the people who

I am, you know, I'm there to serve.

And as, you know, we've talked about this before.

There's just, there,

there are far too many politicians from both parties who spend their time at social hours and happy hours with lobbyists

than they do actually spend time at home.

Does anyone ever, oh, that's certainly true.

And they have sad, sad personal lives, almost, not all, but most, as you know.

But I'm always amazed by the financial disclosures.

And again, just since this is the last question, but since no one else talks about it, I will.

And you see these members of Congress who are, you know, some cases, they're clever, maybe even smart.

In some cases, they're just pretty ordinary, actually.

And they're so rich relative to the mean.

Oh, yeah.

Does anyone, and I have no idea how they made all that of money.

I'm no clue at all how Nancy Pelosi is just so rich or how she, her stock picks are like way better than Warren Buffett's.

Like, how does that happen?

But

does anyone ever talk about that internally, like on the Hill?

No, because most of them benefit from it.

I love these, these like accounts on X and on Instagram that pop up now that are actually tracking.

I don't know how they do it.

I really don't know how they figure it out, but they are tracking what she's buying and what other members of Congress are buying.

Nancy Pelosi's stock tracker.

Oh, yeah.

That's definitely one of them.

But they're like, hey, everybody, Pit.

It is.

It's incredible to see.

And when you watch that, and I'm so glad for the transparency that they're providing to people in real time almost.

But it's no wonder why she and others, Democrats and Republicans, who could very easily pass the legislation that says no member of Congress or the Senate or their spouse or their senior staff should be allowed to trade in stocks.

Period.

Full stop.

It's such an obvious way to stop even the perception.

If you want to claim like innocence or whatever, there should be no perception that our elected leaders are profiting off of the knowledge that they have as policymakers that directly impact industry and businesses.

That's a no-brainer to me.

I introduced legislation when I was in Congress to do that.

Many people have since then.

There's been a lot of talk and conversation.

Why hasn't it gone anywhere?

That's why, because they profit off it.

So they don't, of course, they don't want to talk about it.

That's just an easy one.

It is.

And frankly, like, why, why do they need to be forced?

When I, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not some kind of stock trader, but, you know, when I was like 23 and 24, I had like $5,000 in my savings account.

I was like, okay, cool.

Let me learn a little bit about stocks.

I put some money in some stocks and I don't remember how they did, but I knew, I knew immediately, like going into Congress, perception is reality.

Yes.

And so it doesn't matter like, well, I've had this stock for 15 years or whatever.

It doesn't even matter what it is.

I got rid of,

I did not participate in anything related to stocks or stock trading or buying or selling or anything for the entire time that I was in Congress.

And it's not some like, oh, look at me.

I'm so great.

It's just common sense that we have people in great positions of power.

Why should they be forced to do something with the passage of a law?

Why don't they just do the right thing and say, you know what?

We get that even an innocent thing could be perceived as insider trading.

We're just not going to go there.

Because it's too lucrative to give up.

And they know they can get away with it.

So it's interesting.

So you have explained, and thank you, the history of Hawaii, which I think is directly relevant to the choices that you've made.

And as far as I know, everything says true.

And so the party has changed a lot in just the brief time that

you were a member of it, a lot, dramatically, unrecognizable.

But also in the process of going through all these experiences and being attacked by people who thought who said they were your allies, you've got to change.

Yeah.

I mean, I've changed dramatically in 20 years, just through, you know, we all do, if we're honest.

So how have you changed?

Like, what perceptions of yours are different from what they were five years ago?

You know, it is that that like the last five years

that it became more and more clear to me how

many people, especially in the Democratic Party in Washington specifically,

how little they think of the Constitution.

And,

you know, I think the last five years especially are pretty pivotal because you look at what happened with COVID, for example, as a starting point of how people, both at the federal level, at the state level, county level, and a lot of places, when given just a little bit of power, man, they took advantage of that and continued to abuse that power in a way that just didn't make sense.

It didn't make sense.

You know, when they were, they're like, okay, well, for public safety, everybody's got to stay in indoors and you can't go to church and you can't even worship, you know, out like in Hawaii, on the beach.

You can't have like an outdoor service.

But

if you're going to go and do a Black Lives Lives Matter march,

that actually rises above any public health and safety concerns that we talked about.

And so that's okay.

The politically motivated decisions that were being made in the midst of what they were calling this, you know, the greatest health epidemic of our time, I think exposed pretty deeply to a lot of people

that it was really all just about power and how little they were concerned about things like freedom and civil liberties and the ability for us to make our own choices for ourselves.

And then it just continued to escalate more and more with the Biden-Harris administration

in how they were undermining the rule of law, continuing to this day,

and how willing they were to both directly and indirectly censor, blacklist, and smear

everyday Americans across the country if you happen to challenge them, whether it be on COVID or it be on

things like it and this this was I think this was the thing that that caused Mitt Romney to to call me a treasonous liar was saying hey there are

US-funded DOD funded bio labs in Ukraine that should be secured because there's a war going on over there and the last thing we or the world needs is anything going on and those bio labs being unleashed in a way that could pose a threat to people.

That was seen as...

But I should just say, you weren't guessing.

No.

You got that, or it was confirmed in any case, in a public exchange in the Senate between Marco Rubio of Florida, the sitting Republican senator, and Victoria Newland, the Undersecretary of State, who volunteered it on camera.

Yes.

And it was on the DOD website

talking about their long history

of funding these biolabs, not only in Ukraine, but in many other countries because they around the world outside U.S.

law.

Right.

So they can do, and it's bioweapons research, obviously.

But

you are just, I don't even think you said that.

You just said basically what the Undersecretary of State said in the Senate.

Right.

And then you have a creature like Mitt Romney calling you

a traitor to your country.

So what do you think of him?

Like, what is that?

Why would he be so committed to a lie that he'd be willing to try to destroy your character?

He is part of that neocon, neolib establishment in Washington that poses a direct threat to our republic, to our democracy, and to our freedom.

And that really is at the heart of why I chose to leave the Democratic Party.

Seeing people, and yep, got it.

He's a Republican, but he took the same position as Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats who don't care about our country.

That's what it comes down to.

I agree.

They don't care about our country.

I challenged Mitt Romney.

I sent him a legal letter challenging him on his accusation for the very reason that we talked about.

As a uniformed officer serving in the United States Army,

his accusation as a U.S.

senator

is a crime punishable by death.

So if you're going to make that accusation, as he did on what was then known as Twitter, you better freaking back it up.

If you take three steps back, it's like, obviously, Mitt Romney is emotionally a child.

He's very much a sub-genius.

He's like not.

a genius, let's just put it that way.

And he's made hundreds of millions of dollars in our economy.

Like, what what does that tell you about our economy?

Like, how could a guy like that get so unbelievably rich?

Like, there's something

systemically wrong, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

there's a whole, I think there's a huge, and I think this will be the topic of the next book that I'll write is as we talk about the military industrial complex.

There is a corporate industrial complex

that exists as well.

I'm all about capitalism.

But when you look at the monopolies of

that's not capitalism at all.

You look at how many small businesses are suffering in this country because of overregulation by government and because they can't afford to pay millions, tens of millions of dollars to have lobbyists going and scratching the back of politicians so that they can create the loopholes that allow their business to thrive at the cost of the mass majority of the small businesses in our country and the elimination of competitiveness,

true competition, which is what capitalism is all about, true competition in our country.

And that's how when you look at people like Mitt Romney and you see how they have done so well,

that's the reason why.

He's just so disgraceful.

It's hard to believe he's real, but he is.

So, how did he respond when you said he didn't?

His silence was

not respond at all.

Not to my lawyer and not on Twitter and not in any way,

shape, or form,

which

it didn't surprise me.

It's so dishonorable.

It is.

It is.

I am so grateful and really truly feel like it is a privilege to be able to serve our country in uniform.

April makes 21 years for me.

I'm grateful to serve as a battalion commander currently, where I have the opportunity to work with incredible Americans who come from all over the country and who deeply love our country.

It's not a small sacrifice to make, both for those who are serving as active duty service members, as well as those who serve in the reserve component.

There's a reason why we do it, and it stems from a deep love for our country.

And to have a guy like that

make such an accusation, yeah,

it hits close to home, not only for me, but the real issue with that and why I challenged him on it is because when people like Mitt Romney

make that kind of accusation, when people like Hillary Clinton call me a traitor and a Russian asset or a puppet of Putin,

this is not about me.

It's about the message that they're sending to every serviceman and woman in this country and every American that if you dare to challenge us,

we will come at you.

It's always the least American people who make the claim that you're not American enough.

Yeah.

So, but do you ever think, so again, this is demonstrable if anyone who's made it to this point in the conversation can decide, you know, do I agree or disagree with Chelsea Goward?

That's fine.

But I don't think any fair person could say you're in this for the money

or the accolades, just the opposite.

You're continuing to get deployed and you're not making any money doing that.

You're doing it anyway.

It's quite a time commitment.

Do you ever think like maybe politics is not the business for me because I'm just, I believe what I believe and I'm kind of never going to sell it out?

Maybe you're not transactional enough for that.

No, I'm serious.

I have never thought of quote unquote politics as a career at all, ever.

And so the different times in my life where I have held public office, it's never been, well, this is what I'm going to do for for the next few decades, and then I'll retire.

And it's why I have left at different times.

I did not run for reelection when I was serving in the state house because I decided to volunteer and deploy to Iraq with my brothers and sisters in the Hawaii National Guard at the time.

I did not run for Congress again in re-election in 2020 because I felt like I could

the climate of the House of Representatives had gotten to that point where I felt like I had maximized the impact that I could make there and I could be of more influence at that time on the outside, kind of holding their feet to the fire and being able to share exactly what I am now with the American people, the truth about what's going on in Washington and the truth about these politicians who claim to care for you, but show through their actions that they don't more and more brazenly.

And this is really, you know, you'd ask the question about what happened over the last five years and

the change really,

where there has been a change, it has come from a much deeper appreciation,

frankly, of our Constitution and the role that our leaders must have.

in truly upholding the Constitution.

It's obviously something I've sworn an oath to twice in my life and I care very deeply for,

to see how those in power were so brazenly and continue to so brazenly abuse their power and

weaponize our law enforcement, the national security state, all of these different tools that are at their disposal

increasingly pushing us

towards a place where our country is being led by a tyrannical government.

Yes.

The problem becomes very real.

It's a very real danger.

Oh, I agree.

But I frankly couldn't, you know,

10 years ago, maybe even

less than that,

I don't think I would have said that.

Oh, I don't think most people would have said it at all because it seemed like just the normal disagreements between people with the same goal, which is to help the country.

That's not the case.

Obviously, the problem of the Constitution, though, is that the whole document basically is just like limits on the power and authority of politicians.

That's the whole purpose of it.

Here's what you can't do to the population.

But it's in the hands of politicians to uphold.

Yeah.

So you sort, I mean, maybe that's like the core problem with our government, our system of government is

they have to restrain their own power.

Like, what if they're like, well, we don't care about the Constitution?

Like, old white guys wrote it and they were racist and like it's now invalid.

And that's exactly where the leaders of today's Democratic Party are.

That is their mindset.

But what do you do about that?

That's where going and actually looking again at our founding documents, looking at the Declaration of Independence, looking at the Federalist Papers,

where we are reminded over and over and over again about how our nation's founders continued to say it's we the people, that our government does not exist without the consent of the governed.

And this is the message I'm carrying everywhere across the country is that if you are not happy with the direction that our country is headed,

and I think that most people are not happy with it, this changes only when we take action.

Only when we take action.

There's no Knight in Shining Armor that's coming to save the country.

Our founder specifically built our country on the foundation of we the people taking ownership and responsibility for the kind of leadership that we want and the kind of future that we want.

And right now,

I am sounding the alarm and encouraging everyone to sound the alarm.

The name of my book is For Love of Country, Leave the Democrat Party Behind, specifically and very directly pointing to those who pose the greatest threat to our democracy, to our freedom, to our security, and our ability to live in peace right now.

And my concern, my grave concern is that in this next election, if President Biden or Harris or whoever they may put up, if it's not President Biden, if they are allowed to remain in power, then we will get to a place where

the country that I love, that you love, that so many of us love and appreciate, will become unrecognizable

and

to a place where the freedoms that we are already starting to lose,

that we won't be able.

to get them back.

I know a lot of people have been to jail in the last three and a half years, a lot.

And I've interviewed a lot.

Just interviewed one today.

And they've gone to jail for their political views and for their willingness to challenge the people in power.

If Biden or if Clinton and Obama get reelected, using Biden as a cutout and Kamala Harris, are you worried that,

I mean, we're talking about

actual Americans, American citizens going to jail.

We're going to see a lot more of that, it feels like to me.

We are already seeing more of that.

And I have no doubt that that will only escalate dramatically because every time,

you know, they could win the election by theoretically one vote.

And they will run around the country and say, well, the American people have given us a mandate.

to continue the great work we are doing for this country.

Well, the great work that they see they are doing for this country is actually for themselves.

And they are completely undermining

the fabric that makes this country what it is.

That's for sure.

But are you worried?

I mean, you're in this interesting position because,

you know, they've always, they've disliked Trump for a long time, disliked me for a long time.

They thought they could use you.

They thought they loved you.

And so they hate you with a very intense and very specific kind of hate.

And you've given them the finger at every turn.

Yeah.

Like, and you won't stop.

So like, do you ever think to yourself?

I wouldn't be surprised.

Yeah.

Why wouldn't they indict you for being a Russian agent or whatever?

There's,

as we are seeing now,

they are completely willing to use the Department of Justice and law enforcement to serve their own political means.

So, so no, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

They are showing that even without evidence, without basis, without anything to back up their claims, they are,

you know, they, and this is what they've been doing this against Trump since he first ran for office in 2016, launching years-long investigations into him, this whole Russia collusion thing, things that were, you know, proven through those investigations.

Like, no, there was nothing here, and there's been no accountability for them whatsoever.

Which goes back to

just emphasizing how critical it is

if you are a person who cares about freedom, who cares about our country, who cares about

being able to make your own decisions as parents about what kind of education you want for your child, if you care about having a safe community for your child to live in, if you care about having a secure country with borders,

the Democratic Party is

not the answer.

It is not the answer.

They are, in fact, the problem.

So you've been

in a lot of different news stories

talked about as a potential VP choice for Trump.

I have no idea if that's going to happen or not.

Probably unknowable.

Are you open to that?

If you don't do that, what else are you open to?

What's your plan?

I would be honored.

I'd be honored to serve our country in that way or in other ways

and to be in a position to help President Trump if he is re-elected to actually address these challenges, to help execute those policies that will bring back a secure border, that will breathe new life into our economy and start to get this radical inflation out of control.

Which on that note, I was in a conversation the other day with like two different groups of people.

One was with a very, very wealthy couple.

And they were saying, well, gosh, you know, and they're not fans of President Biden either.

They're like, you know, the economy is not actually that bad.

The stock market's doing all right.

And, you know, it's, it's not really as bad as a lot of people are saying it is.

And then the next conversation was with people who are not part of that wealthy class who were talking about, you know,

A loaf of bread is three times more expensive today than it was six months ago or a year ago.

Basic necessities, electricity, food, medicine, all of the things that

people need just to live and to try to live in a healthy way are far more expensive, but they're not making a whole lot more.

The dollar is going,

you know, not going nearly as far as it needs to in order to be able to afford this inflation.

And so I just mentioned that because this disconnect still continues between the elite in Washington and the reality that they live in versus the reality that the rest of us live in in this country.

And President Trump recognizes that.

I'd love to be in a position to help

secure our country and to get us off this path towards World War III and nuclear war that

the Democrat elite and President Biden's policies have us on right now.

So, my last question: A lot

has been written about you

and a lot has been written about your spiritual life.

I don't know if any of it's accurate or not.

Most politicians don't have a spiritual life, so I think it spooks our media that you clearly do.

You can feel it.

But I want to ask you a specific question.

So there was a fairly famous exchange on MSNBC a week or two ago with a reporter from Politico who was attacking Christians.

And that reporter said, you know, the crazy thing about Christians is they think their rights come from God.

When, of course, the implication is they really are granted by Joe Biden.

Like, what?

Where do you think our rights come from?

Our rights come from God.

And

I saw that clip

and I laughed when I saw it.

And then I was concerned because I saw the people sitting around the table in one of those panels.

And they all had serious looks on their faces as they were nodding along with this woman saying this, as though, like, first of all, whatever her spiritual beliefs are or the lack thereof, that's her business.

But have you read the Declaration of Independence ever?

Certainly not recently, because again, whatever your own personal thoughts may be,

the Declaration of Independence is not, they don't mince words.

Yes.

That our God-given rights are inalienable and they do come from our Creator.

And again, recognizing that as the basis for our founding documents

is a very powerful message to every person in politics or in power

that

you don't get to try to take away those rights.

God gives us those rights.

Only God can take them away.

And this God complex that so many of our politicians have is at the heart of the problem is they're so eager to put themselves in a position of power where they

they believe that they have the power to say what is true and what is not true.

That something as undeniable as the fact that I am a woman and you're a man is something that they have now declared to be

a fungible label, I suppose,

that you can just say, you know,

I believe I'm a man, so I'm a man, and let it be be so.

It would be laughable if the consequences weren't so dangerous to have people in power who don't recognize that our rights and freedoms come from God.

And you follow that track and where does it lead is they really do believe that they are God or should be God.

and that they are self-appointing themselves to be in that position of authority and have a lot of tools at their disposal to try to enforce that.

And that is what is at the heart of the danger that we face as a country right now.

This is something that transcends party affiliation.

It transcends how you may like or dislike certain candidates.

This is the fact, and it's the reality that we have to confront ourselves with.

If we care about peace, if we care about freedom, if we care about security, if we care about our country and our future, the choice is very clear in this election and what we must do in leaving the Democrat Party behind.

Tulsa Gavard, I don't know what's next for you.

I don't know what's next for any of us, actually, but I hope you will keep talking.

I will.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

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