Ep 198 | An Addict's Redemption Story the World NEEDS to Hear | Jeff Allen | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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There is an important ratio in the world of comedy.

The more offensive a joke is, the funnier it becomes for all kinds of reasons.

Cultural reasons, psychological, religious, social, political, you name it.

But you better not take that risk with your audience and flop.

So the more offensive a joke is, the funnier it has to be.

On the flip side of this is the clean comedy, clean comedians, stand-ups like Jim Gaffigan, Jerry Seinfeld,

even the most offensive comedians will tell you a clean comedy routine is much harder than the offensive to funny ratio.

Because while offensive comedy allows the comic to see just how far they can take it, clean comedy requires the comic to let the joke loose by reining it in.

Today's guest is a clean comedian.

He has been performing since 1978.

He most likely coined the terms happy wife, happy life, and would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?

Over the course of his nearly five decade career, he has become a master at clean comedy.

But he's also a clean comedian.

Clean, as in clean and sober.

It wasn't always that way.

In fact, he had some real demons to wrestle with.

Now in his book, Are We There Yet, My Journey from a Messed Up to a Meaningful Life, he's telling the entire story, including some of the darkest moments of his life, his rock bottom as he fought addiction to alcohol and cocaine.

He has an amazing life and an amazing journey that I think you might be able to relate to in some way or another.

but also learn from.

Please welcome my friend, Jeff Allen.

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Hello, Jeff.

Hello, Mr.

Beck.

How are you?

It's good.

Good to have you here.

Yeah, it's nice to be here.

It's been a while since you've been here.

Yeah, yeah, you finally dropped the charges and you let me come back.

I was hanging around so much, I think I became a nuisance.

You are,

you're doing fabulous, fabulous stuff.

Yeah, at this point in my life, which is great because when it ends, I can just retire.

retire.

I told Tammy, I said, you know, if I hit this at 35 and it runs for five years, I got a lot of years to try to figure out how to get it back.

Is success, do you think,

sweeter at your age now?

It's,

I don't know if it would be sweeter.

It's just nice, again, if it's a good run.

And when I'm 67, so if I can make it to 70,

you know.

And you're, and you, man, you look a thousand years younger than Joe Biden.

Yeah.

I have a lot less stress.

I'm not trying to hide in 16 offshore accounts.

Holy cow.

I have one bank account.

You've written a new book and it's called Are We There Yet?

Yes.

And I've read it and

I want you to take us through the story.

And Are We There Yet actually comes from something.

I'm an alcoholic.

You're an alcoholic.

It's a recovery.

Yeah, we're a couple of recovery, recovered dirtbags.

Where does Are We There Yet come from?

It's the journey.

I had this image of when I started recovery of being like a child.

I walk into those rooms.

I had no idea what it meant, where I was going.

And I was...

not in charge of anything.

I did what I was told to do.

They told me to pray.

I didn't believe in God.

I said, all right, I'll pray.

So it was interesting.

I I did the serenity prayer and I did the third step prayer for years, not even knowing what they meant, you know, especially the third step prayer, which is what my life is today.

You know, remove me from the bondage of self so that I may better do thy will.

Take away my difficulties so that victory over them, others may bear witness to thy strength, thy power, and thy way of life.

So I did what I was told like a child.

So when I was putting the book together, I started thinking, you know, it really is a journey.

And you are like in your parents' car in the back seat.

And recovery is like they leave you at a rest area with the the keys and say, yeah, have a nice life.

And you have no idea what direction to go, where to go, and you make mistakes along the way.

And the impatience,

I don't know of other people in recovery, but I had, man, I went to therapy, and my first question was, How long do I got to do this?

I don't want to come to you the rest of my life.

I know.

And she said, Fortunately, God gave me a wonderful therapist.

She said, My goal is to get you to fire me as soon as possible.

That's great.

You know, when you can be your own therapist, you don't need me.

So I know that one of my problems was

I started drinking, same age as you, 13.

But I was successful early on

for whatever that means.

And my am I there yet was different.

Mine was

I'm supposed to be happy now.

Right.

No, I've accomplished this.

So it must be, it must be that over there that I need.

And you never, ever hit that.

Does that make sense to you?

Do you know what I mean?

100%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would, I remember early

knowing it wouldn't be money.

I was drinking and

I remember telling everybody when I got into comedy, I quit a job making $300 a week.

So I'm 22 years old.

And I said, if I can make 300 a week telling jokes, man.

So I hit that pretty quick.

Then it was 500.

Then it was 750, 1,015.

I got up to like 2,000 maybe in the clubs a week.

And I was money.

I was pissing it.

Yeah, it was just spending it on Coke and drugs and whatever.

So I knew in my heart of hearts,

no matter how much money I made, I remember saying if I hit the lottery when the Illinois lottery came in, my response was, I'm going to buy a silo full of cocaine.

And I mean, I'm a young adult.

I'm not 16.

I'm 25 years old going, I'm going to buy a silo.

So, you know, thank God I didn't win the lottery.

Oh, I know.

I know.

You know, but that was, so I knew that.

So my there was, okay, maybe if I can just get the tonight show.

And I remember a guy saying to me, what are you going to do after you get to tonight show?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Well, one tonight show ain't going to, you know, but back then, if Johnny gave you the

back, you know, but still, I, I didn't have a plan.

I talk about that in the book.

Yeah.

I was a planless, you know, and when I married Tammy, I asked her to marry me at Baggage Claim.

Yeah, Yeah, well, let's get into that for a second.

First, when you just brought up Johnny Carson,

Drybar is kind of like Johnny Carson today, isn't it?

Oh, my gosh.

Changed my life.

Yeah.

And it was funny because I worked, I was on tour

October of the previous year.

I taped in January of 2019.

So October, I get a call from my manager.

You're going to do dry bar.

I go, what's that?

I had no clue what it was.

And I was out there with Brad Upton Upton on tour and Brad says it changed his life I go what do you mean he goes I got a hundred million views and I go what

never even heard of it so I tell Tammy my wife I'm doing dry bar she goes oh my gosh it's in my feed every day I go what the heck is it I had no clue why did you tell me

no wonder I'm such a success I don't even know what to do

who's this Coxin yeah exactly right yeah so anyway I tape in January and I hired a social media guy immediately that I couldn't afford it was more than my mortgage.

And we're fine, but we're broke.

You know,

we're living okay.

So I can't pay the guy, but I tell my manager I'm going to hire this guy and get things in place in case my dry bar connects.

So I get there January, and I said, when are you going to release this?

He says, six months.

I go,

I can't pay this guy for six months.

So anyway, as

God would have it, two weeks later, they call and go, this is really good.

We're going to release it like in two weeks.

So that's March.

They release it.

And every day, Tammy, I walk out.

She's going, we're up to 20 million views.

We're up to 40 million views.

We're up to 70 million views.

I had called my financial guy and said, I'm going to need money in the summer.

I'm going to have to pull out of my IRA to get through the summer.

Wow.

My calendar was empty from June to August.

And by the end of April, we return to work down.

And it was like, holy cow.

I'll tell you what, the funniest story, my manager, I got a rule.

I don't work outside.

That goes back to, you know, I was doing a show and they had a hot air balloon 50 feet from me.

Always good for copy.

Right.

And right before I'm leaving the staff,

okay, I've adjusted to the hot air.

Some guy comes by at a bullhorn.

The hot dogs are ready, kids.

The hot dogs are ready.

And my manager was with me and I said, that's it.

No more outdoor.

And so anyway, he calls me up and he says, I got some good news and bad news.

And I said, what's the bad news?

He says, you're working somebody's backyard in Long Island for their husband's 65th birthday.

Oh, gosh.

Oh, Lenny.

He goes, I said, all right, what's the good news?

He goes, it's 10 grand.

I go, what?

He goes, she didn't even blink.

I go, what?

I'm there.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

I mean, give me

hot airports.

I'm going to give you an example of the whore-like nature of my existence.

I learned early on in my life, I'm for a cause until it inconveniences me.

This goes back to Tammy's pregnancy.

So let's go back.

You're 10 years into your stand-up.

Your dad gives you your first mention

of your stand-up.

10 years you're doing stand-up.

He first says something to you.

But the one thing you relate to your dad on is

Cosby and comedy albums.

Tell me about your dad.

Hard man to get close to.

I think there was some severe damage done

maybe at church because of his reaction to anything church really.

He told me when I was 14 to stay away from Christians.

His father was a pastor.

His brother was a pastor.

Here's a story.

My uncle Ken, my dad's brother.

much younger than my dad, was an accident.

Always wanted to share the gospel with my dad.

right?

So anyway, my father was just intimidating to everybody.

So my mother is passing away from ovarian cancer and my uncle gets called to Arizona and he thinks God's calling him to share the gospel with my dad.

So my mother goes to bed.

She's tired.

She's doing chemo and stuff and she goes to bed.

Now it's my dad and his brother in this front room watching TV and it gets really quiet.

And Kenny goes, you know, Jack?

And my father goes, cram it, Kenny.

So,

the mere mention of

anything.

So he was a difficult guy.

He had a very talented man.

Could have went to Juilliard.

I was told this.

Again, this is anecdotal.

I kind of related to Elizabeth Warren when she said, well, that's what I was told.

Right, me too.

You know, me too.

You can only go with the family.

His sister told me, my aunt said, that your father was invited to Juilliard out of the Army to play music, and he wanted to paint.

My father was a, I'd love to show you.

I got a Louis Armstrong painting my father painted.

That was when he died.

My sister said he didn't leave us much money.

I said, you can have all the money.

I just want the Louis Armstrong painting.

Wow.

I just bought a huge piece of art in Idaho.

I saw it.

I had to have it.

It was

one of Louis's songs.

Somebody put into a big piece of metal.

We're going to put on the wall.

Every time I hear Louie, I think of my father.

But never painted at home.

My mom said he sent paintings off to Europe and they got destroyed.

They fell in somewhere and he burned everything.

He had beautiful portraits of my mother, she said.

In the end of his life, he started painting again.

He would go around

Arizona and take pictures of weathered Native Americans and stuff.

He didn't want to buy a picture of somebody and paint it.

He wanted to.

And that's why he was convicted on the first, he was the first road rage.

What?

This is, again, anecdotal.

I understand that my father wanted to get a picture of a hawk.

Again, he doesn't want to buy a picture of a hawk and paint it.

He wanted to shoot a picture of a hawk.

Couldn't get one.

So one day he's at a red light, and

there's a hawk on some roadkill.

They always had his camera next to him.

Yeah, yeah.

So anyway, he gets out of the car.

You got to know my dad.

He's got arthritis.

He can't move.

So he's crawling on the ground.

And he's getting the camera, and the light turns green, and the woman behind him honks and the hawk

flies away well he lays into her i mean you f and you know

so anyway she takes his license plate down so my mother's telling me this story because dad's in jail so anyway she says the

state trooper came in and she said all he had to say was you know i lost i you know i got a little out of control the guy would let him go Your father had to reenact the whole thing.

I mean, all the way down to, he's flanging his arms, he's cussing.

They lived in a trailer park, so people are coming out of their trailer parks to look at him.

I mean, he could have been a great actor.

Anyway, the guy cuffed him and hauled him away.

So,

your dad, you think there was maybe some abuse, church, I also think bipolar.

Okay, my dad, also abused, and it

was fused with church.

Didn't happen with a pastor or anything, but it was fused with the church.

Had the same kind of experience, and my dad was abused by his father.

And my father father told me this

maybe when I turned about 50, I think.

And nobody knew.

And I'm the only one he told.

And

I think

in reading the book,

I'm thinking, gosh, you're sharing some really

you know, not so great things.

And

I thought,

but you know what?

I know I've I've told my children, especially my son, about

my father and his father.

And now I'm the father, and he's the first generation that could be free

of all of that.

Because it's a generational thing.

Well, I told both my boys on their wedding day, I sat them down and I said, I've saddled you with things.

that you are completely unaware of.

You were too young to know.

But your wife will draw them out of you.

You're going to act in a way as a husband or a man that you

find unbecoming to who you think you are.

Come talk to me.

And

my oldest son went to Iraq.

He came home.

He had PTSD and some TBI.

And

we were at our granddaughter's fourth.

She's four years old and she's doing a little dance thing.

And we come out to the garage and my son is in the process of ripping the door off his minivan.

Just had a fit ripping.

I mean, just

and his wife, what a saint.

She stood by, watched the whole thing, you know.

And

he finished.

I just, I felt, because I used to have fits like that, you know, that was one of those things.

But she let him do it, rips it off, and then he sits there.

He's exhausted, embarrassed, and shamed.

She walks over and says, Aaron, why don't you go down and take a seat?

We'll get the door on and we'll go home.

I got in the car.

I told Tammy, thank God she married him.

That's the way to handle it.

You know, so many would get in there and go, what are you an idiot?

And the next thing, the second door is getting ripped off, and the third door, you're smashed, you know.

But that was one of those moments that I said to him.

I said, that's, I used to, you know, throw fits, you know, and out and over.

You know, I mean,

I write about one in the book where I was pounding on a heavy bag.

I had installed a 50-pound heavy bag to hit when the rage come up, so I didn't smash dishes.

So I was out there pounding one night.

Tammy and I got into an argument.

I just went out.

And years later, she told me, she goes, you know, I never said this to you, but when you hit that bag, I thought you were hitting me.

Wow.

Yeah.

Can you imagine?

I said, God, no.

Baby, I was just hitting.

Just hitting this bile, you know.

So I'm pounding it, falls off, and I'm picking it up, and I'm throwing it against the cinder block fence,

just exhausted, screaming at the heavens.

Why?

You know, why?

I mean,

again, just, it's as if, you know.

Where'd it come from?

I don't know.

You know, my father,

the men and her family were, you know, and that's when we were, you know, we're backing up out of the story, out of the sequence, but we had filled out divorce papers and were filing them.

And 10 minutes from the courthouse, Tammy changed her mind and said, let's pull over.

And she says, let's go home.

I said, you're out.

She said, what do you mean?

I said, Tammy, I love you, but I'm damaged goods.

I don't know if I'm ever going to change.

You know, and

I go long stretches without, but eventually I would snap and smash things.

And, you know, she grew up in a home where if someone lost their tempers, she got hit.

The therapist told me that.

She goes, every time you raise your voice, it triggers all that stuff in your wife.

And she just cowers.

But I told her I'm damaged.

She said, let's go home.

I said, we go home.

Divorce is off the table.

You know what you got now.

When we got married, we didn't know each other.

Just two broken people that God put together, you know, and tried to figure all of that out.

I never had a relationship over a week until I got married.

Let me go back to your dad for a second, and we're going to jump to your marriage.

Your brother won, I think it was a Little League champion.

I did.

You did.

That was mine.

You did, okay.

And dad came in.

Yeah, it was funny.

My father, because I was a pretty good athlete.

I'm actually really good.

And my father told me years later, he goes, you know, I didn't want, I was proud of you, but I didn't want to tell you that because I didn't want you to get a a big head.

And I said, it worked.

I have no esteem at all.

Thank you.

Yeah, when he told me I was a good comic, I crawled into it.

I was 30-some years old.

He says, you're really a good comic.

And I crawled in and told Tammy.

I said, well, I got it.

She goes, what?

Approval from the old man.

She goes, are you whole now?

I go, nah.

About 33 years.

So, but your dad came in

and told you God doesn't exist.

Right.

And he chose the highest.

I know.

It's the highest point of my young life, the proudest moment of my life.

I won MVP at an all-star baseball tournament.

I was sitting there with the trophy and he said,

you're going to, if you travel, you know, we talked about playing professional sports, you know, so if you'd manage to defeat all the odds.

and become a professional, someone's going to come to you and tell you that that talent you have is God-given.

And this is what you tell them.

Kiss your ass there is no god and then he went in to just telling me you know his views on metaphysics and

and uh christians are the worst i can just

you know there's there's a thing i was talking to somebody whose parent is getting old and they're like you know before i go i should tell you and you're like no don't tell me that i don't want to know that you know there's some things

yeah things that parents do that you're like there's no reason to tell me that.

Yeah, the worst thing apparently, when they tell you it's, you know, for your own good, I did that for you.

You know,

I didn't want you to get a big head.

Yeah.

You know.

Optimism isn't sunshine and rainbows.

It's fixing things, changing the way we fix things.

It's running the world on smarter energy.

Because if optimism never stops, then change can't either.

G.E.

Vernova, the energy of change.

More with Jeff in just a minute.

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Okay, so now you meet Tammy.

You're how old?

29.

You're 29.

30.

30.

So you're

still thinking of the silo of cocaine?

Oh, I'm using.

Yeah, I can't.

You know, but I, you know,

I'm a headline in clubs,

and I've been at it for seven, eight years now.

Okay.

And going to a club,

and I do this in the, you know.

I fell in love with her laugh.

Smoker, you know, 37 years ago, you know, all that gagging, gasping, wheezing that annoys the general population when you hear that as a comic.

Yeah.

So I heard this symphony of joy coming from the back of the room.

And I run back after.

You make her sound so beautiful.

And she is.

She is.

She's gone.

She is beautiful.

How do you just make her?

So anyway, I run back off the stairs.

I got to meet her.

I mean, obviously she digs me because she's laughing so hard.

And anyway, she's gone.

I go, did she die?

I mean, did they haul her away?

And they go, she was changing clothes.

She walks out, just short leather skirt, white blouse, and perms, you know, 80s.

Just

that was it.

You know, it's funny years later, my son goes, so you know, you and mom?

I said, yeah, I met her at a club.

I followed her around two days before she even noticed me.

He goes, so you stalked her?

I go, that would be today's terms.

That'd be what they call it today.

Back then, it's only if you were creepy.

And I hadn't hit the creep stage yet.

So

single mom.

She had a two-year-old.

Okay.

And I'm working two jobs.

So that impressed me because I could barely do one.

Right.

And did you like kids?

No.

Yeah.

No, I told her, and it's, you know, she, it's, it's interesting.

She read the final draft.

I told her, you got to read the, and be okay with my version of what we went through.

And she read like the first two chapters and put it down.

Said, we were horrible people.

And she's, she worries because

the few interviews she's done, they really look at her and go, why'd you stay with them?

You know, I mean, it's a legitimate question.

So security, that's one of her answers.

I wouldn't answer for her.

I don't want to answer for her.

But

I told her at one point, keep them away from me.

I don't like kids.

Oh, my gosh.

You know, and like she said, she goes, the woman I am today wouldn't even step foot in the room with you, who you were.

And I go, I don't know if I'd date you, the man I am today.

I certainly wouldn't date a smoker.

I mean,

if they're putting up with that for,

she used to light up in bed.

She used to light up in bed at 2 a.m.

Does this bother you?

No, I've like, I've always slept in pool halls.

This is great.

She's cowering in the corner because you're breaking stuff and you're like, and smoking.

My favorite was when she quit.

I used to see junkies coming off a heroin in better shape.

So I walk in one day.

She's like two days without a cigarette.

and she's frantically running around, I mean, and screaming at me.

And I said, what is your problem?

She says, I can't find the keys.

And she's waving them at me.

I can't find my keys.

And I said, they're in your hand.

And she looks and she had hard candy that she would suck on, right?

And I said, if you're waiting for me, the drug addict, to tell you to go have a pack of cigarettes because you're having a bad day.

She throws the whole hard pack,

goes up to Flying Jay, comes back going, I'm okay now.

So I never thought she'd quit, but those grandkids, granddaughter, or the daughter-in-laws said that they would not bring the kids by if she was smoking.

That will change things.

It did

immensely.

She started vaping, and then now she's been off cigarettes for quick.

So you were at the airport when you

asked her to marry.

I met her in November, January.

I was living in L.A.

She was in Ohio.

I flew her and the two-year-old out to L.A.,

played dad for a week, took the kid to the beach and Disneyland or something.

In April, I'm flying on a red eye.

Somewhere maybe over Nebraska, maybe my sixth or seventh cocktail.

I decide I'm going to ask her to marry me.

You know, no ring, no plan.

You know, again, no plan.

And I always tell audiences, if there's a young man within the sound of my voice, I don't recommend this.

I mean, if you want to do something on impulse, buy a pair of shoes.

So I'm at baggage claim, and I just say, I love you.

I love Erin.

you want to get married and she says pardon me I said do you want to get married you and I so she knew who I was talking about

and the bags are coming down right on the baggage right we're just collecting luggage so anyway very romantic yes and then she waits and she finally looks at me and this is a direct quote yeah I guess if that's what you want

It was like I said, hey, you want to go to McDonald's for breakfast?

Yeah, if that's what you want.

It was no difficulty.

Well, I mean, no difficulty.

You're at the baggage claim.

I mean, that's kind of the response you would expect.

Well,

I always say I pay the price for that because every movie we watch where a guy does it right, she cries and sobs.

And I go, I'll ask you again, all right, please.

And she said, no, my story's baggage claim.

That's what I got for a story.

Thanks.

I did ask her to marry me again in Israel.

We went out to Israel with Huckabee.

And I told Mike, I said,

distract my wife.

I'm going to buy her a ring at one of the merchants there.

And I bought a ring.

And it was so funny because because I was so nervous asking her to marry me again.

We were married 33 years.

I'm up there shaking.

And you hear her whisper on the tape, get on one knee.

Oh, I forgot.

Yeah, so I wanted to correct one of the wrongs that I could.

So anyway, did she say yes?

Yeah, she did, actually.

She had

a slight hesitation.

It's strange because I did something similar when we were in England recently, and I had the same kind of nerves.

You had the butterflies and the nerves, and I'm like,

she ain't going anywhere.

But it's just,

it's neat.

It's neat when you find it.

So

when you're performing, you're drinking, you're drugging, you're empty inside.

I think those were your exact words.

Yeah, the classic story I write about in the book is I was sitting on a stool in a hockey rink because everybody was doing comedy in the 80s.

So I'm sitting in this hockey rink

and

can't even get a word out.

And I finally just go, why are we here?

What's the point?

Dead silence.

I mean, 500 people in this rink.

Can hear a pin drop.

And out of the back of the room, some little squeaky woman goes, we just want to hear some jokes.

Isn't that great?

And I go,

that is legit.

And I ended up doing my show and finishing it.

That's so great.

But it was like, that was where I was at.

Agents would call

my managers at the time and just go, what's the problem with him, man?

But it was like I just didn't know what the point to all of it was.

That's all.

I mean, I used to tell people that I don't know if you know what it's like to wake up every day of your life with just absolutely no idea of what you want to do with your life.

You know, I was going through the motions.

I mean, I had a skill set.

I had one.

You know, I can do comedy.

But when that ran out,

the veneer ran off of that pretty quick in the 90s when all of a sudden,

you're babysitting drunks.

The money was going down.

I could barely pay the bills.

It was very funny.

I tried to

do temp work.

They call me and say, it says here, you're a comedian.

And I said, I am.

And they said, well, would you like to seek people for this particular comedian at the theater?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

Listen.

So anyway, I'm not going to give you the name of the guy, but Tammy heard it.

You're not seeking people for that hack.

You're a comic.

Fire your agent.

My God, I'm sick of it.

She's like shaking.

She's just,

this is what you do.

You're good at what you do.

Just be that.

You know, and anyway, I fired my agent.

He said, she was right.

He's got you convinced.

I hired my father for an agent.

I mean, basically had me convinced that I was lucky enough to be making tests.

It's amazing what people,

as Sinatra said, just get a kick out of stomping on a dream.

And it's amazing the damage those people can do to somebody.

Well, I had a club owner.

I was a year and a half into it.

And he goes, you'll never make a living at this.

And I said, thank you.

He goes, you're welcome.

I said, no, anybody who's ever made anything of their life has had some a-hole in the course of their life telling them they're not going to make anything of your life.

You're my a-hole.

I'm still telling the story.

Yeah.

I have that same guy.

So when did you sober up during this period?

What year was it?

Well, it was, I got sober at 25 briefly.

I was still doing cocaine, so technically I'm still,

you know,

alcoholics anonymous.

All right.

His is cocaine.

Completely different.

Sitting there meetings, going to the bathroom and coming out.

You know, so it didn't last long.

Let's just put it that way.

But I knew if I went back, I'd stay.

And the story I write in the book, which is

we had a discussion over whether or not I should print this, you know, but it's already out on the internet.

I spanked my six-month-old son.

No, no, no.

Tell the whole story.

Okay.

Okay.

And

I want to

preface this.

I know you.

And

the reason why I wanted to do this interview with you is because

there are so many dark things that all of us do one way or another.

And there's a lot of people who will listen to this and go, ooh, I've been there or I am there.

And the reason why I wanted to do this interview is because you are not this man anymore.

No.

You're not this man.

No.

Well, I had come home.

We were living in Boston and I had come home and

as I had been, you know, it was like one or two in the morning and I'm sitting in my makeshift office drinking some rum and doing some cocaine, trying to figure out why I am so miserable, where all of this guilt came from.

I never had guilt.

I mean, I, you know, got arrested, you know, part of being a drunk.

You get arrested, you know, all this stuff.

So

never had guilt about it.

You know, it was annoying and it bothered me, but it was never this deep-seated guilt.

And I realize it's probably started when I got married.

We're not even a year married now.

And

I come to the conclusion that it's the marriage.

So I need to get out of this marriage.

And I don't do conflict well.

I just don't.

Growing up, conflict, you know, if I stood up for myself, I got pitched against the wall.

So when we start conflict as a man and wife, my fight or flights kicks in.

Hers has to too.

Well, she is, hers is, she was beat.

So she pushes to stop it.

And this is what the therapist told me.

Because I said, why does she keep pushing me when I tell her, just give me five minutes?

She has to stop it.

She doesn't understand it's counterproductive to keep pushing.

So anyway, she's sleeping.

It's two in the morning.

The kids are asleep.

And I decide that if I beat her up,

She'd leave you.

She'll leave me.

And I'm out.

I can just send money.

So anyway, I work, you know, drinks and whatever.

And I, you know, part of me is like, obviously, this is crazy.

But then the other part's going, I got to, I got to.

So anyway, I walk in.

I find.

Isn't it amazing?

I hate to use the word courage.

I worked up the courage to do this.

I mean, it's not.

So anyway, I walk in and I'm standing over.

And that voice that we all have, C.S.

Lewis said it in Mere Christianity.

I mean, you can deny.

But we have a conscience, all of us.

We know right or wrong.

So I'm wrestling with that.

And then my son starts crying.

He's six months old.

And I got to go in and quiet him.

And he's not quieting.

And I, again, start spanking him.

Shut up, shut up, shut up.

She wakes up.

She comes in.

She grabs him from me.

And she says, who does this?

And then she walks in and sits on the edge of the bed and feeds him.

And while he was getting fed, I realized what I had done.

I mean, the shame that washed over me.

I mean, it was like humiliating.

I'm like, oh, my gosh.

And then to think what I could have done.

Right.

So I walked in and told her, if you don't take me to Alcoholics Anonymous, I won't go.

And if I don't go, I don't think we're going to make it.

Not even thinking.

You know, she already had one child from another guy.

And we're not even a year into this one.

She's got another child.

And here's her husband going, I don't think we're going to make it.

Oh, my God.

I told a friend months later, he had a small child, and he was an alcoholic.

And I said, you're going to come home one night and look at that kid.

You're going to do one of two things.

You're going to run for the hills or you're going to get the help you need.

And he was in Massachusetts and I found out he was living in San Francisco.

The ocean stopped him.

I'm glad I stuck, you know, but she took me and then they said, pray, I said, the what?

And that started the whole.

And when you first started,

you were,

I mean, you're working in a comedy business.

You're at bars.

Right.

Well, I said, if you, if, if you like to sleep, get a job at a mattress factory.

That's right.

So you're at bars, but you're now trying to stop drinking.

Somebody thinks they're doing you a favor at one point,

pours vodka in your orange juice, right?

Without you knowing it, yeah.

And then I spit it across the bar, and then I go to a meeting and go, and then I lose my sobriety because all of a sudden

I don't know when I quit.

You know, I count the years now.

I don't count the days, but it's like you go, I don't, but anyway, and some guy goes, what are you doing in a bar?

And I said,

I make my living.

I'm a comedian.

He goes, well, you're going to have to quit your job.

And I said, I didn't come here for career advice.

I came here to try to learn to live in a world that has alcohol in it.

And if you can't help me, I can save myself six, seven hours a week by not coming in here, you know.

And my sponsor

gave me the greatest, he said the greatest thing to me because of my ego and my pride.

I was complaining that I couldn't drink like all the other drunks.

And he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, back up.

Who says you can't drink?

You're a big boy.

Nobody's going to stop you.

But think it through, man.

you know it's going to cost you i'm not talking about the five or six dollars for the drink you lose your wife your kids all this stuff

so um why don't you just say you choose not to drink today so then it became like

i choose not to drink right right it's my pride you know i could yeah

if i wanted to i don't i don't want to

see those you know so anyway it was really good for me to hear that i could and that was the way i phrased it people go um you want want a drink?

I go, nah, not today.

You know, I might tomorrow, but not today.

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Back with Jeff Allen in just a second.

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But you were still

having problems at home.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

Whatever I drank to cover up came off in the form of rage.

And my father, the worst and most violent he ever was is when he quit drinking for two years.

My dad had rules, self,

rules.

If you go into work and fed your family, you can do whatever you want as a man.

So anyway, he missed work one day because he couldn't get out of bed because he was hungover.

And he quit drinking for two years.

And man, he smashed, broke.

I laugh.

It's funny.

I had a therapist tell me, every time you tell me something about your dad, you laugh about it.

But, well, that's the way I grew up.

I mean, you know.

So anyway, you have to

retire.

He couldn't get the lug nuts off.

So he just broke all four or five.

snapped him, and he tosses the tire up the street, cussing all the way up.

People coming out of their homes.

Oh, it's just Jack.

All the way up the street, down the street, you know.

And, you know, as a kid, it's, you know, it's your dad.

It's kind of embarrassing.

I was never home.

You know, I just got to a point where I never, if his car was in the driveway, I turned around and go back to a friend's house.

So at this time, you have another fight, and this one really turns you around with Tammy.

You have another fight where you fly across the room.

Well, that was upstairs.

Yeah.

We were in the middle of an argument.

And this is, now I'm in therapy.

And I don't know if you did therapy.

I did both.

Yeah, but you have to, once you cover, once you uncover it, then you're just left with this thing and you're so afraid to look in it.

Right.

So afraid to look at it.

And also, it's like, oh, wow.

That's true.

When you get a therapist.

Well, that's it.

Yeah.

So anyway,

we're in the middle of an argument, blah, blah, blah.

And she throws a toy at me and hits me in the head.

And I fly across.

I get her by the, it's the only time I've ever laid my hands on her.

And I put it like that.

And I just pulled back and she started pummeling me.

Just pummeling me.

And I let her.

I just, oh my God.

So now we sit down and it gets quiet.

My youngest boy walks over and he says, look, daddy.

He pulls a book out.

Look, Daddy.

He's trying to get me to laugh.

And I read, and I read Bradshaw's book on family dynamics.

The youngest is the comedian, the good nature.

So anyway, I said, that's our comedian.

Tammy goes, what are you talking about?

And then a lamp goes down in the living room.

Smash.

And I said, Aaron did that on purpose.

She goes, why would he do that?

So we'd stop fighting.

I said, today it's a lamp.

Tomorrow it's drug addiction.

It's liquor store.

It's whatever.

They're going to get your attention.

If we don't take care of us,

these kids are going to be destroyed.

She says, you're crazy.

I said, I'm telling you, Tammy, everything we're doing, we were programmed to do.

We just got to break the program.

That's hard.

Oh, my God.

Well, that was it.

I remember my, I don't know if I can do it because we're sitting, but I had a therapist tell me, you can't hit anything anymore.

You can't punch walls.

You can't.

So

I go, what do I do with my hands when I feel like doing it?

She goes, put them in your pocket.

So Tammy and I are in the middle of an argument.

I don't want to think that we argue at every, you know, but

anyway, these are the highlights.

Yes.

Well,

low lights.

lights.

So anyway, I'm in the living room with my hands in my pockets and I'm shaking.

Tabby finally goes, what is with you?

I go, I just want to punch something.

She goes, my God, what is wrong?

But she can't get it.

I mean, they don't understand.

I mean, anybody who's, unless you've suffered from that kind of anger where something clicks, you're not there anymore.

You're not there.

It has to run its course.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, I have to, you know, and for me, it's shame.

When shame kicks, then you humiliate, and then

I'm gone.

I am gone.

So I got to catch it before I do something that makes me ashamed of myself.

Whether I raise my voice and yell or say something,

as long as I don't do that, I'm fine.

But when it kicks in and that computer goes, it's like, wow.

I mean, again, I'm not, I can't, but you can't excuse it.

You know,

I'd walk back in.

I'd go, I said, oh, I know you're sorry.

I am.

I don't have anything anything else for you.

I don't know why I do this.

I mean, that's why I'm in the backyard throwing a 50-pound bag around, yelling at the heavens.

Why?

Why?

So what did you learn in therapy?

I learned that

we are, as children, anger is a cover emotion for sadness.

We're usually deeply saddened as children.

And it comes to a point where whatever age you are, you know, you're sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

And then one day you go, I'm not going to feel this anymore.

So every time sadness kicks, you cover it with the anger.

That's what I learned.

And the computer starts at a very young age

with that.

And

children can't verbalize their feelings, so they act them out.

You know,

I always tell this story because to me, we had Aaron Bidd, my youngest, my oldest bid.

He didn't know how to, we always go, use your words.

He'd start to take a hunk out of his brother.

Use your words.

So anyway, you go to family or to school functions and the whisperers would start.

That's a kin who took a hunk out of my daughter.

You know, it's like the parents.

They think you discipline that way.

You know, they look at you as going, well, you're biting your kids.

You know, get over here.

We're not.

You want to stand up and stay?

No, we're not.

We don't condone this.

But he just didn't know how to

process.

Here's a story.

I don't know if I put this in the book or not, about

the first Iraq war.

Aaron gets in a fight at school, and

I get a call from Tammy.

Aaron got in a fight, and that isn't my son.

So I get him on the phone.

I said, Aaron, what's going on?

He goes, nothing, Dad.

It took me five minutes to get it out of him.

You fly in the sky.

There's bombs in the sky.

You're going to get blown up and killed and not come home.

Holy cow.

And I said, we have a Mr.

Duke down the street, trains pilots over at Litchfield for the Air Force.

I said, You go talk to him and I'll call you tomorrow.

So I call him the next day.

I go, Did you talk to Mr.

Duke?

He goes, Yeah, he says we're kicking ass.

Isn't that great?

But that's the difference between

at least understanding that, I mean, if my father would have just said, Bam, don't do that.

You know, I don't think, you know, we've,

I think we've over-corrected.

But in our generation,

it was,

shut up, sit down, just do it.

Right.

Stop your whining.

Just do it.

I heard a quote from a Japanese businessman.

They said, what would your father say if you told him he loved you?

You loved him.

He said, I'd been in America too long.

You know, so.

So

what does the phrase

you win

mean to you?

Daddy, you win.

I got into an argument.

It sounds like that's all we did for...

No, but the good part's coming now.

Right.

We get into the argument in Jersey.

And I end up...

What I didn't put...

I don't think I put it in the...

Did I put it about the cheese?

It was over a chunk of cheese.

Yeah, okay.

So

again,

when it clicks, you're off, and there's no logic.

So I go to open up a piece of cheese.

And I see it's been sitting.

I got a phobia of dairy.

I mean, I've been going to comedy condos for years.

I've been sick two or three times on Mayo.

And you know how long Mayo has to sit before it goes back?

A long time.

A long time.

So anyway, I see something.

If I don't know how long it's been there, I don't eat it.

So I open up the new package and I throw out the hunk.

And Tammy says, comes in and sees me.

She goes, there's another package.

I said, yeah, I saw that.

I don't want it.

And then it starts.

What do you mean you don't want it?

I don't want it.

And so I end up three minutes later on a stool yelling at her at the top of my lungs.

I don't want it.

Are you effing deaf?

I I don't want it.

I don't want it.

I don't want it.

I don't want it.

Over and over and over again.

And she finally falls on her knees and sobs.

And now I feel like

the jerk that I am.

And I go put my son to bed.

And he's six or seven, I don't know.

And he says, Daddy, you win.

I go, What do you mean I win?

He goes, You yell, mommy cries, you win.

Oh my gosh.

And I went downstairs and told Tammy, I'm going to get help.

That's when I got into therapy.

I said,

I didn't want to be this way.

That's the thing.

It's hard.

You know,

it's so simplistic to say, change.

Okay.

You know, I had an ideal of what I wanted to be, but then there's this computer inside me.

Yeah.

You know?

The tapes that run over and over and over.

That's it.

The reaction to things.

I'm telling you, if it's true what they say, that alcoholics remain emotionally where they were when they started drinking, then it all makes sense to me because I behaved like a 13-year-old.

Yeah.

That's exactly how I behaved.

I mean, when you think about it, standing on the chair, stomping my feet

when I didn't get my way.

Yeah.

You know, and

again, not even really caring about the

responsibility of that.

You're this kid, Chicago, dad,

could have been somebody great,

wasn't

an atheist, angry inside.

you want to change you you don't and then this moment happens

when did you

really

change

that night I pitched the 50 pound bag I stood in the yard exhausted and I look up and my wife and kids are standing at the back door And I'm telling you, I'm sweating.

I'm exhausted.

And I walk in and my five-year-old Ryan comes over and he goes, Daddy, you scare me.

And I picked him up and I held him and I said, I scare myself, son.

And something washed over me.

I believe in my heart as a Christian.

That was when the night the Holy Spirit said,

I'm coming.

I believe this.

I wasn't aware of it.

I had no idea.

But I looked at Tammy and for the first time I said to her, this will never happen again.

And you knew it to be true.

I did.

And she goes, bullshit.

And I said, have I ever said that to you?

She goes, what difference does that make?

I said, my father said it to my mother over and over and over again.

My brother said it to his wife over and over.

Always happened.

I always knew it would happen.

So

I don't want to make promises I can't keep, knowingly can't keep.

Sometimes you make promises and then you things happen, but I don't know how I know this.

I don't know how I know this.

But

I'm okay.

She says, get out of here.

You know, you live in hotels anyway.

Just get out.

And I go, babe, I'm telling you, I'm okay.

You know, and

I believe that that set me up

for when I found out about the guy she was seeing in California for that one night.

And what happened there?

I get the

you kind of know something's going on.

Phone calls are taken in the kitchen, moved to the bedroom.

And, you know, so you get this feeling, you know, that

she's seeing something.

So anyway, she goes to California to visit a friend.

And I just

really got a gut feeling.

So I call American Express.

First of all, I call her friend, and she says, well, she's out shopping.

So you're like, who goes visit a friend

and then goes shopping?

So I call American Express and I go, is my card being used?

And they said, yeah, it's at a hotel in.

Southern California or something anyway.

So I said, can I have the number of the hotel?

She said, yeah.

So anyway, call, she picks up.

I said, gotcha.

Get home.

Anyway,

long silence.

She said, okay.

And then two hours later, her friend called me and said, Tammy's too devastated to come home right now.

She'll be home in the morning.

And I believe this, Glenn.

Had she come home that night, we wouldn't be married today.

You know, James, in the book of James, he talks about the human tongue and he compares it to a rudder on a ship.

It's a small part of a very large vessel, but you can't steer that ship without that piece.

And the tongue is the same thing.

It's a small part of our body, but you steer this whole thing with the tongue.

And God gave me the ability to do dangerous things.

He gave me the ability to bless and curse.

Yeah.

And I would have cut her.

I know I would have.

I was righteously angry for the first time.

You know, it's like

tell an angry guy that now you can be angry.

Everybody understands.

That's why, you know, I don't know if I wrote about much of this in the book, but it's politics for me in the 90s.

When you're angry, politics is wonderful because people ask why you're so angry.

They look at your beautiful wife.

They look at your healthy children.

They look at the job you do and they go, why are you so ticked off?

Them.

Them.

Oh, okay.

And the Republicans, the Democrats, the whatever's.

You know?

So I had a night alone.

And every time I'd get righteously angry, that little voice inside of me that I believe now is the Holy Spirit says to me, remember the time in New Jersey when you stood on a stool?

And there were dozens of those.

Remember the time you threw the, you know, remember this, remember that, you know, and I mean, but I go, yeah, but I mean, I'm telling you, it's like there's another voice in me going, you know, but yeah, but she's doing, you know,

exhausted.

I went from how could she to how could she not by the end of the night.

I just, I picked her up at the airport the next day and she walks out.

She's tear-streaked and just exhausted.

I'm exhausted.

Put my arms around her, gave her a kiss on the cheek, and she says, that's it.

I go, that's all I got left.

We're a mess, you and me.

What you want is in California.

I'm not going to stand in your way.

If you want this to work, then you take 50% of the blame for this mess.

I'll take the other 50.

If it gets 51, 49, the resentments will kill us.

We'll start blaming each other.

You take your mess, I'll take mine, and we'll see what we can work out.

And then going home, she says, how did we get here?

And that's, you know, I hope the answer is in the book.

We got there, you know, we walked into it it was really explained to me pretty cool that when two broken people get married you know my neuroses are maybe round holes her neuroses are round pegs we fit we have a little dance that we do and then somebody gets into recovery and all of a sudden isn't reacting certain ways and stuff then his his holes get a little oval so the pegs just don't and there's this constant friction until you both get on the same page of healing you know, and

we made it, you know,

you know,

about a year and a half later, I met a guy who put the Bible in my hands, you know, and

Ecclesiastes.

I know.

I know.

And not like a happy part of it.

No.

Yeah.

No, but that was my conclusions.

I wrote about

the gerbil and the thing.

I was kind of sitting there.

It's funny when you, but it was so profound to me.

Sitting there watching a gerbil go back and forth, you know, and Tammy goes, what's with you with

the gerbil?

Because I was looking at it like TV.

I was just, for like 20 minutes, I'm just sitting there watching this thing.

I said, look, it gets sticks over here, and then he moves them over here, you know, and she goes, so what?

And I go, yeah, but wait.

He moves them back over there and stacks them up and spins the wheel every now and then when he wants to entertain himself.

She goes, so what?

I go.

It's our life.

She goes, what do you mean?

I go, I'm projecting 10, 15, 20 years from now.

I mean, we get sticks.

They wear out.

We take them to the landfill.

If I'm lucky, I get a sitcom deal, a movie deal.

We get nice sticks, but they all wind up going to the landfill we're just chasing sticks stacking them up somewhere and we go to vegas we take the kids to disney world and that's our wheel

she goes my god jeff

what is going on i said tammy if that's my life for the next 15 20 years i'm checking out she goes you checked out years ago you're not even here now half the time when i'm talking to you your head is off somewhere you know and she's she was right I mean, there were times we would be making love and I'd look at her.

She'd be like this.

And I'd go, What?

She goes, I just require you to be here.

You know,

where are you at?

You're not even here.

You know?

And you're like, wow, because my brain, well, you know, you got an active brain.

Yeah.

So it's like, it never stops.

But it's hard.

It's very hard.

It's hard.

It's very hard.

But when you realize how important it is for someone to hear you,

that was a big breakthrough for me.

Was I need to hear her.

And I have to concentrate.

I think most guys do.

Some of us are hard.

I mean, it is the hardest thing for me to sit and listen and say nothing.

I just had

my youngest daughter.

She came to me and she said, mom doesn't understand me.

I never understand her, you know.

And

she comes on the couch and I said, just sit down.

What's happening?

And she just went and I had to bite my tongue the whole time.

Just

and then repeat back to her what she said.

I said nothing, nothing.

I didn't give her any advice or something.

She's like, Dad, I always just feel so much better when I talk to you.

And I'm like, that's right.

And remember that.

Remember that.

It's just.

listening.

And guys aren't good at that.

We're just not good at that.

Is it a mad thing?

Maybe.

I think it is.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know.

But

I've had a word.

Here's a funny story.

You'll appreciate this because you're in recovery.

So

we were at a restaurant.

This is a couple years ago, a few years ago, in a restaurant.

And she's on her phone the whole time.

Well, I'm eating.

So I'm done.

And she's bike phone.

Anyway, I'm watching the whole thing.

Not talking to me.

The last bite goes in her mouth.

I go, are we done?

She throws the fork down.

She goes, yeah.

And she gets up and she walks.

So I got to pay the bill.

I'm on all the way home, quiet.

I call my sponsor and I said, what are you doing?

Just eating it.

He goes, here's what you're going to have to do.

You eat fast, don't you?

I go, yeah, I eat fast.

I eat.

I'm there to eat.

I want to eat.

The same way.

So anyway, he says, from tonight, what are you having for dinner?

I said, we're going to have steak for dinner tonight.

He goes, when she bites, you bite.

You don't bite until she bites.

And you don't tell her what you're doing.

You're kidding me.

Glenn, this is the most arduous, painstaking steak I've ever eaten in my whole life.

And I finally told her afterwards, I said, my sponsor told me to eat.

I said, how do you survive?

I'm just the same thing.

I've got all my children around the table and they're all, I mean, because I get antsy.

After I finish it, I'm like, I'm just climbing the walls.

You know, I love it.

Can we go someplace and do something and talk?

Hey, let's go into the living room.

Finish your

food.

But she took.

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I'm like, I know.

I know.

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So,

are you there yet?

No, you know what it is?

I asked five questions that I had to answer.

I think, you know,

what defines you?

You know, and usually when you ask a man what defines you, the first thing they say is, I'm a whatever their job is.

Defines me as my relationship with Christ.

I'm a child of God.

That first and foremost, if I get that right.

Then I'm a husband to Tammy.

I'm a father to Aaron and Ryan.

I'm a grandfather to them.

And then I'm a comedian.

And if I keep those things in the right order, because they'll switch, all of a sudden I'm working six days a week and I'm a comedian.

I'm not much of a husband to her.

And I did tell my managers when this dry bar thing hit, I said, she will determine how much I work.

And last year I was doing a movie and I was on location for two weeks and we got into a little tizzy on the phone and I said, what is going on with you?

And she says, don't get mad at, don't, don't hate me for missing you.

And I go, oh my God, it's a country lyric.

i mean it's the first thing i thought of you know it's a hey it's a don't don't hate me for but i called lenny my manager and i said thus stop booking that was september he goes i'm way ahead of you man i stopped in august you know it's it's interesting my staff has always been this way with my wife and i and it used to be really really bad um i couldn't go away for more than a day and and it

just i couldn't be without her she didn't want to be without me and it's still the same way.

We toss and turn in bed at night if we're not laying next to each other.

And

well, Tammy's used to it.

And it's interesting.

I tell people a lot of marriages couldn't live the life we live because I'm gone so much.

Yeah.

You know, I remember.

In your case, that might be a plus.

Well, I think it probably saved us early, that's for sure.

But

there was a

I had an issue with porn years ago, and I told Tammy, you need to put a a

device on my phone.

You need to track my phone.

She goes, I will not be married to a man I can't trust.

Fix it.

So I only got the help I needed, you know, but it was like, you know, just one more thing.

You know, it's like, I just, again, are we there?

I mean, am I done?

Am I done?

My favorite story, I was doing a show for a ministry that was for

secular journalists.

These were some hardcore, but it was a ministry.

And they got them together in Nashville and the lady who

was in charge of it calls me and says, we just want some comedy.

We got a guy that's going to do the testimony.

So anyway, I do my comedy and I'm in a bad place, really kind of where the title came from.

And I'm on stage and I'm doing the comedy.

We're going to laugh.

And I stop.

I'm ready to leave and I go, you know what?

I got to talk to you guys.

I said, you know what?

I'm exhausted.

I just want to know when I'm done with this whole recovery thing and all of this stuff and God and all that.

And I start crying.

These people are like, you talk about uncomfortable.

Oh, yeah.

You cry in front of Christians.

They go, oh,

yeah.

Not in a bar, not in a comedy club.

Not in a real horror.

So it's like, anyway, I get done and Tammy looks at me.

She goes, holy cow, what was that?

And I go, I don't know, Tammy.

I'm just exhausted.

And I'm sitting there and I'm embarrassed.

I mean, really embarrassed.

And right when I'm ready to leave, remember Jennifer O'Neill, the actress?

Yeah.

Summer of 42?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Anyway, she was in the room.

She walks over.

She puts puts her arms around me.

She goes, I know exactly how you feel.

And I looked at Tammy and I go, that's all I needed.

Just one person to go, I get it.

I'm just tired.

I'm tired of recovery.

I'm tired of not being whatever

situation,

whatever person I think I should be.

But I believe now that the Holy Spirit and my nature are just constantly.

And it's just this, Paul talks about it

in in Romans.

I do the things I, you know, my limbs do things I don't want them to do, you know, and you're just

this side of heaven, you know.

But that's the, but there's just, there's a, there's a piece in the acceptance

of the journey.

I mean, and again,

I came to that years ago.

I just realized, you know what, I'll never be done, you know, and okay, I'm fine with it.

Yeah.

You know, just, oh boy, you know, just another, you know.

It does get,

i think when you get when you get older

i think

that

i i've been i don't know why i've been thinking about

my life a lot you know the end of my life and you know wanting to make sure everything is in order for the kids and everything and

and uh

There's more and more times I get up and I'm like like you just said

I'm tired of the battle.

right and I used to tell my kids and they hated this

and up until two of them were in their 30s they still hated it and then the third they got into the 30s and they're like you know dad you're right I said

life is flashes of wonderment just flashes of this is amazing you have to live and feast on that because most of life is endurance.

Just endure.

Just keep working.

Just keep moving forward.

And it's hard.

We were wired for two things, worship and service.

And

I had a sponsor give me trash bags once.

And I said, what are these?

And he said, when you feel like drinking or you don't want to go home because you're going to get in an argument with Tammy, you know,

pick up trash.

And I go, why would I do that?

And he goes, trust me.

And here's the hard part.

Don't let anybody see you picking up the trash because your pride will kick in and you'll miss the point.

So I don't know a week or two.

Anyway, I always had these trash bags next to me in the car.

So I'm coming back and I know I'm going to get in an argument.

I just didn't want to go home.

I stop at a 7-Eleven and I start picking up trash and it worked.

And you realize it's just one more thing.

You're going, you know what?

Get off your rear end and serve.

I don't care if you're unemployed, you don't have anything, but find somebody that you could help and serve.

You know, Ayn Rand, I read a lot of Ayn Rand, and it was interesting because she said altruism was selfish.

It was an act of selfishness.

And it is because you feel good.

But see, I believe the other way.

God wired us

so that we would feel good when we serve.

Correct.

Yeah.

Right.

It's like why he wired sex to feel good.

Right.

So we have babies.

Right.

So we can keep the species going.

Right.

And it's.

He wired us to feel good when we serve.

And it's so amazing because the things that make us feel good

that are also good for us.

Yeah,

I don't ever want to do.

I like a service.

I'll be in a bad mood or I'm sitting in service and I'm like,

I don't want to do that.

And then you do it

and you're coming home and you're like, why don't we do this all the time?

This is the way we should be.

You know, that from AA when you walk in and they go, pick up the chairs.

I don't want to pick up chairs.

I want to whine.

Yeah.

I want to pick them up.

Yeah.

And then you get out of your head.

And again, you look at something you've done.

You've done something, you know.

And

I just,

going back to the five questions, because

what defines you?

What do you value?

You know, initially, I thought it was things.

And when we lost the house, when we sold the home, finally, we got out from under it.

The escrow lady told us,

the IRS is taking all the profit from your house.

And I looked and said, it doesn't matter.

The only thing of value.

Is right here.

Right here.

And Tammy said, for the first time in our marriage, we were eight years in.

She said, I believed you.

For the first time, I felt that we were a priority.

And who would have guessed the IRS

did me a favor by taking all of that?

But it was, so what do you value?

What are your expectations?

Huge.

I used to tell Tammy, if you'd lower your expectations of me, you'd be a lot happier.

You know, like picking up underwear.

It's so funny about the underwear because this is,

she goes, how do you not see it?

I said, oh, my wife says this to me all the time about everything.

How do you not see this?

But I said to her, what you're saying to me is

by ignoring it, you're saying, I see it.

I say to myself, I could pick it up, but screw it.

I'm going to have her pick it up.

That's not true.

I don't even see it.

I just walk by her.

Right.

You know, there's no conscious

thing about it.

But anyway, so that if you lower the expectations,

I'm going to be your champ.

Right.

But what, yeah, what are your expectations?

Where does your hope lie?

That's huge because I see that in the airports.

One of the reasons I wrote the book was for 30 to 40-year-olds because I was that age when I went through all this.

The meaninglessness of life, the, you know,

hopelessness.

You could feel it.

It's like toxic for me.

I see it.

I want to walk over and just hug these guys guys and go man there's another way you know there's another way but it's so easy to isolate now that's that's the disease hopelessness

hopelessness hopelessness and loneliness yeah uh

and then on a society that's telling you you're no good you'll never make it it's just toxic yeah just toxic it is and it's it's sad it really is and young men you know you look at what

what they're doing to anybody who tries to get young men esteemed.

You know, Jordan Peterson, what he's had to go through.

You know, I don't know about Andrew Tate.

I don't know.

I'm not that deep into that.

I just know that his message was to,

you know, strengthen up, be a man.

And

you look at what they did, the promise keepers.

Anytime large groups of men get together and they...

esteem them, you know,

this is your role in life.

You need to step up and be a good husband and be a good father.

And anything with family is under attack.

And that's another reason why I hope the book,

I hope if

people

read it and they're in a situation where they're just ready to give up,

hang in there.

At least give it a shot.

There's ways out.

If there's an effort, if you take divorce off the table.

My wife said to me, because I've just gone through a divorce divorce and I had nothing, but I was like, prenup.

And,

oh, she was so mad at me.

She was like, we are not getting married.

We are not getting married.

And I'm like, what?

I think that's pretty reasonable.

She said, that we plan

our demise?

No, no.

And she was right.

You just have to take it off the table.

It's not an option.

Yeah, well, it's interesting.

Tammy said, made a joke the other night.

She goes, you know, I married you for your money, right?

And security and all of that.

You know, I want to spend the rest of my life making her life comfortable.

I want to pay penance for the man I was.

I really do.

I mean, I have

There's times I look at, I do this in my show, so I, I know, but it's, she'll walk in, I call him Flint.

God takes Flint to your heart.

You know, you're sitting there, you know, and she's walking back and forth.

And then all of a sudden, look at her.

Look at her.

Just look.

Right.

Remember.

Right.

And then you go, oh,

wow.

Wow.

Gorgeous.

Yeah.

And then you go, oh, that's a lot of work.

But that's,

I love you.

Yeah.

Glenn, thank you so much.

You're, you are,

I love you because you are a,

I like wise people, and you only get wise after you've been through hell and back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're wise man.

Smart people learn, you know.

Yeah.

There was the story about the alcoholic and a door here and you got a brick wall.

Someone goes, why don't you use the door?

Shut up.

Thank you, Jeff.

Thank you, Amir.

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.