Ep 169 | What Are the Feds HIDING in Jan. 6 'Investigation'? | Darren Beattie | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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The crusade against Donald Trump has repeatedly promised atomic bombs everywhere.

And then a peanut falls out on the table.

Almost every time, the people who challenge him to a death match wind up in the losing corner, kind of rocking back and forth like they're in a lifetime movie.

But that doesn't stop them.

If anything, it makes them even more vicious.

Like a lot of Trump allies, today's guest learned the hard way, and it has cost him a lot.

Years of climbing the academic ladder.

He was a professor at Duke University.

2016, he signed a letter pledging his support to Donald Trump.

Well, he was the only non-tenured professor in the entire nation to publicly endorse Trump as a candidate.

Non-tenured.

He insisted that Trump would win.

Well, the clergy

in the church of academia, I mean, he might as well have been a murderer, gone on a murder spree.

So he left academia to become a speechwriter for President Trump.

He suddenly found himself at the White House writing a speech about a turkey in need of a pardon.

He realized, yeah, I don't know,

he quickly realized at that time, political elites tack anyone connected to Trump.

They fight dirty and they never stop and they never stop scheming.

The Southern Poverty Law Center teamed up with CNN to label him a white supremacist.

Didn't matter that they were wrong.

To quote the New York Times, he was fired for attending a gathering with white nationalists to a commission that helps

preserve sites related to the Holocaust.

He's Jewish, by the way.

So then he took a different angle.

He started doing journalism.

In May 2020, he founded Revolver News, his take on a newer, sleeker version of the Drudge Report.

Then came January 6, 2021.

He was doing some great reporting on Ray Epps and the involvement of feds in the January 6th debacle.

He calls what happened a Fed surrection.

This is about the time he popped onto my radar, really.

So we had him on this podcast.

He was one of the few people willing to even ask questions.

He's a very brave guy.

He was quickly branded a conspiracy theorist.

He's been been called a Nazi, a racist.

I mean, he's got all the labels.

Well, as for some more details,

new things have happened.

It's becoming clear that he wasn't so conspiratorial after all.

Who could have seen that one coming?

He wrote the foreword to one of a dozen or so publishings of the 888 January 6th report.

He's not going away anytime soon.

A new House is going to require a new January 6th committee and by new I mean that Republicans have a chance to find out and tell us the truth What is the truth?

The guy who's probably done more investigation on this than anybody else Darren Beatty

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So, Darren, I want, I'm so frustrated

because

everybody's made up their mind on January 6th, both sides.

And I don't think the story has even been told, which you are doing such a great job at.

And I don't think people understand why it is so important.

I don't care who you voted for.

I don't care if you think Donald Trump was the worst guy or the best guy.

This is critical or we lose everything.

Is that an overstatement?

No, I think it's actually very accurate and it's important to understand why.

You know, I think a lot of everyday Americans, they're far more concerned with issues like inflation or otherwise.

And there's this sense that it's only the radical leftists that are making this huge deal about January 6th with hyperbolic comparisons to 9-11.

I think Biden even said it's worse than the Civil War.

9-11, forget about 9-11, it's worse than the Civil War.

We've got some ridiculous statements and people just tune it out and say, okay, this is just partisanship, it's bluster.

And to a certain extent, that is true.

It's not an insurrection on the level of the Civil War or anything like that.

But the reason it's important and we can't tune it out entirely is that There is a false narrative being pushed, and the purpose of that narrative is to facilitate the weaponization of the national security state politically against the American people.

And that's what's at stake.

It would be one thing, you know, it's horrible what's happened to a lot of the people languishing in prison for, in many cases, relatively trivial offenses.

But the bigger picture, what's really at stake, is the nature of the country we live in.

What type of country are we going to live in?

Do we want to live in a country where over half of the country is effectively demonized as domestic terrorists terrorists for having pretty much

sensible

political views.

Because if you do that, you can't coexist.

You can't, what do you do with, if half the country are terrorists, what do you do with that half of the country?

Right.

You know, you either have to re-educate them or you have to put them in a camp or kill them or something, but you can't live next door to a terrorist.

The thing that

bothers me the most, and

I want you to take us through everything.

But the thing that bothers me the most, and it is not just in January 6th,

is the intelligence community and the FBI, the power and the arrogance of the use of the power in such

clear and unusual ways.

You know, they are

this apparatus is being used either by them or somebody else to carry out an agenda

and blame it on other people.

And

if they can do this to the President of the United States,

why do you think

there's any justice for you?

That you're going to be different.

They'll be fair with you.

No, it's a great question.

And, you know, we saw pretty egregious behavior in relation to Donald Trump.

We saw the deplatforming of a sitting president of the United States from his chosen method of communication when he was taken off of Twitter.

The intelligence community has been involved in so many things, going back to the Russiagate hoax.

And there's just this common thread that

they're arrogating for themselves the status of, say,

the Grand Ayatollah in Iran.

They're the ultimate arbiters of how far quote-unquote democracy is able to go and in what direction.

And really I think the correct heuristic to understand the intelligence community's posture to Trump and really more broadly the energies associated with Trump movement or a populist movement more broadly.

They look at it the same way they look at a quote-unquote authoritarian movement overseas.

And they implement the same tools,

color revolution methodology, which I think you've spoken about, a lot of the same national security tools that they would deploy overseas in order to topple an authoritarian ruler that is against our geopolitical interests, they marshal all of those tools against Trump, and they marshal those tools against the Trump movement and Trump supporters, and more broadly, anyone who dares question the direction of the country under Biden.

We have seen them, the State Department and the CIA, topple governments in other countries that they wanted to topple because it was in the best interest of whomever.

Right.

And you watch it and you're like, wait, I just saw that.

That's exactly what happened overseas.

This is how we topple them.

No, exactly.

And it's funny, you know, there's the theory, but it really,

the theory is represented substantially in the people involved.

And, you know, before we report on January 6th, I think we were best known for the Color Revolution reporting.

And there was one individual that really stands out called Norm Eisen, who has sort of been everywhere.

He's a color revolution professional.

He's literally written a book on it, on how to do it.

And it just turns out one of the many nice little details of January 6th is his fingerprints are all over the January 6th committee.

Joseph Sellers, a lawyer who helped Chairman Benny Thompson have a personal lawsuit against Trump.

Now, by the way, if some guy launches a personal lawsuit against Trump and others for January 6th, and that lawsuit already promulgates a specific theory about what January 6 was and Trump's criminal culpability, you would think that would present a conflict of interest for that person becoming the chair of an ostensibly

disinterested, objective fact-finding vehicle for January 6th.

It It would be like somebody who has said

I'm suing Lee Harvey Oswald for his connection for his killing alone without any other help

JFK.

Well, I'm not going to trust that that guy's going to give me the truth.

Exactly.

You know, he's going to give me what he already believes.

Right.

And so there's so many things like that.

And I don't even like to dedicate too much time to the committee because it's just a waste and what really matters is the questions that they didn't ask.

But Norm Eisen, his fingerprints are on it because his sort of lawfare buddy really helped Benny Thompson in his early lawfare efforts in relation to January 6th.

And the whole purpose of it was really an extension of the impeachment process.

It's just to cripple Trump politically and now with these criminal referrals recommendations I don't know whether they'll actually go through with it in the DOJ, but it's helpful to have that hanging over the head of a presumptive nominee of a major political party.

It's helpful for the system.

It's not particularly helpful if we want any notion of a

democratic process that responds to the will of the people.

It's a banana republic.

We are operating like a banana republic.

A rotten banana.

Yeah, right.

All right.

So

let's

you call this a Fed surrection.

Let's define that first.

Right.

Well, it's kind of just a catchy phrase, but what do I mean specifically by that?

Do I mean that everybody who was at January 6th was a Fed?

No.

Do I mean there weren't legitimate people there for good reasons?

No.

Do I mean that there weren't Trump supporters who got out of hand and did very bad things and deserve to be punished?

No.

Well, what I mean is

that

without federal involvement,

that rally rally could not have turned into the riot that it did.

And that there are a handful of critical actors

who

really were there on the scene before the crowd moved from Trump's speech to the Capitol at all, who are doing things like cutting the fences, removing the barriers, positioning themselves in critical positions in order to have influence over the crowd.

And that had it not been for those critical actors, I don't don't think we would have had the riot that we've seen.

Do we know who those critical actors are?

Well, that's a great question.

Some of those people, we know their names.

Ray Epps, I think you've covered him extensively.

And by the way, if we have time, I'd like to get into the committee's report on Epps.

They released the interview that they did with him, and that was a whopper.

Let me tell you, there's

crazy stuff there.

But everyone's heard about Epps now, thankfully, and I think most fair-minded people, at the very least, think something's a little bit off.

This guy is like, of all the people, like, this is the one guy caught on camera telling people to go into the Capitol in advance.

This is what they're looking for.

No, and not only that, but, you know, it's so funny.

So he was originally put on one of the top 20 most wanted, FBI most wanted.

The New York Times did this big, scary story, like, you know, the day of the insurrection, and they featured Epps as one of the people that proves that there was a plan to go in in advance.

And then all of a sudden, there's this 180 turn, this complete about face, where the New York Times of all publications does a fully dedicated puff piece to Ray Epps.

And now all of a sudden, he's the darling, and Adam Kinsinger is effectively operating as his defense counsel and interrogation.

So that's one thing.

But there are other people.

It's not just Epps.

Epps, at least we know who the guy is.

At least we know his name.

At least he's a known quantity.

I would say just as interesting, if not more so than Epps, is this individual that's referred to as scaffold commander.

Now, this is a very mysterious guy.

And if people go to Revolver News, there's the sort of the classic piece where we have all the video of it and they can see for themselves what he's doing.

But here's a guy who, like

many of the others, was pre-positioned at the exact place at the exact time,

right at that western perimeter where the first breach was.

He's cutting, fencing, all that.

But then he just immediately rushes to the scaffold, climbs right on top, and he's got his bullhorn, and he's saying, move forward, move forward, move forward.

He's playing just this huge role in crowd control.

And just as a matter of crowd psychology, if you're there in the crowd, you hear some authoritative voice with a bullhorn standing on top of the scaffold saying, Move forward, we need your help.

In many cases, he said, We need your help.

So, if you're in the crowd, you think, okay, the barriers were cut down.

I don't know I'm even trespassing.

Number two, I hear this guy saying, move forward, we need your help.

Was someone injured in the crowd and they need the crowd to move away so that they could be medical assistance?

Who knows?

And then

when the Capitol building itself was breached, he was ordering people to go in, go in, go in.

And the amazing thing is, I would say this is the person who is more egregious than anybody else, other than perhaps Ray Epps.

He hasn't even been identified.

He didn't even make it.

How is that possible?

He didn't even make it to the most wanted list.

And let me tell you, I don't want to.

Wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.

Hold it.

He's not identified as somebody who was orchestrating or pushing it through, or he just wasn't identified by name?

Both.

He didn't even mention.

He wasn't.

No, he's not on any of the most wanted lists.

He's not

wanted to any degree, as far as I'm aware, by the government, by the Department of Justice.

And nobody knows his name.

He is simply referred to as a scaffold commander.

And I was going to say, I don't want to get into

all of my methods and tricks, but I pulled out all the stops, all the stops to identify this guy, including, you know, cutting-edge facial recognition stuff, the whole deal.

Nothing.

And, you know, he could have been wearing some type of prosthetic.

It's just, it's very weird.

I would love to know who this guy is.

It's one of the really key mysteries of the whole thing.

I suspect

if his identity is actually uncovered, it's going to be one of the biggest scandals in the country.

I've dedicated a lot of resources to doing so.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to identify him.

See, I have a really hard time.

I don't have a hard time with you saying

I've used private resources and I've put my own money into it and I couldn't find it.

I have a very difficult time believing the United States government,

in a place where it's almost the all-seeing eye,

that they had

phone triangulation, they have everything on everybody who was there, Cannot find this guy?

Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.

And not only can they not find him, but they don't really even acknowledge his existence.

And you're right.

The government knows who this guy is.

If they want to know who he is, they know who he is.

Same thing with the pipe bomber.

You know, that's a whole deal that we've covered extensively.

But just

I want to go there.

But just for a quick point on the pipe bomber, we have the surveillance footage of the pipe bomber using his or her phone on the evening of January 5th.

There's nothing that's more of a slam dunk for geofencing capability is to find this person.

You have the place, you have the time, it's not even crowded.

It's a no-brainer.

It's easy, it's a layup.

And yet, now they're still pretending like they have no idea.

And just

to

keep up the pretenses, I don't know if you saw, but the other day they said we're increasing the reward

bomber to half a million dollars, like which isn't even that big of a reward compared to others.

AOC, her life was in danger and that's only worth $500.

Her life was in danger.

And the funny thing is, this person planted an explosive device outside of the national headquarters of the Democrats.

And the Democrats don't even care who this person is.

That's the biggest thing.

That's really weird.

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One of the things that is weird about the pipe bomb is, I mean, there's a litany of things, but one of them is the apparent sudden desire of Kamala Harris to want to leave the Capitol.

where all the swearing in is happening,

leave the Capitol suddenly to go to the DNC

where they happen to find the bomb.

Right.

And then Secret Service, they don't have any of the communication.

It's all been lost or destroyed.

Right.

I can't believe Secret Service.

That's an odd coincidence.

Have you found any reason why she said she had to get to the DNC?

right at that time?

That I have not, but I think some additional detail is quite interesting.

First of all,

she covered up the fact that she was in the DNC building for over a year.

That was covered up.

And you know, you think about it, yeah, no, it was covered up for a whole year.

Now, that's really weird for a lot of reasons, but the main reason is: look, they're trying to milk this J6 insurrection for everything it's worth.

Why would they forego the opportunity to have the media amplify the danger of the insurrection by pointing out that the vice president-elect woman of color, you know, vice president-elect

was

her life was in immediate danger

by the white supremacists, MAGA pie.

Why would they forego the opportunity to hammer that every single day to emphasize their narrative about

January 6th being this big domestic terrorist.

That's the most terrorist-like thing that happened on January 6th or these explosive devices.

And yet they covered up the fact that she was at the DNC for all of that time.

And, you know, Secret Service, interestingly, is under the purview of the Department of Homeland Security.

The Department of Homeland Security's main stooge in Congress is Benny Thompson, who's been the chair of the Homeland Security Committee for, I think, seven times.

Department of Homeland Security generally is the tip of the spear when it comes to this domestic war on terror that we've been talking about.

All just kind of interesting, circumstantial data points, but interesting to keep in mind.

But she was under Secret Service protection.

Secret Service is on record saying that they did a sweep of the building, the entrances and exits, and so forth.

So we've identified the exact location where this was.

It's no more than 10 feet away from the parking garage and exits where the pipe bomb was planted.

So the Secret Service, by their own admission on record, they swept the area.

They managed to miss the pipe bomb.

Were they both the same with the egg timer?

Yes.

Yeah, no, no, they had these mechanical timers.

That's another story about how weird it is.

But just the DNC bomb, like the weird thing about the DNC bomb is that it wasn't found.

It wasn't hidden.

Yeah, the weird thing about the RNC bomb is that it was found the exact minute when it had to be in order for things to work out.

Two of those things are independently so implausible as to be unbelievable, and yet they both had to occur in order for this whole thing to work out the way it happened.

And the person who found the first

pipe bomb at the RNC.

Right.

Who was she?

She was

Carlin Younger.

So she, you know, I'm going to...

Just take them at their word for now.

Say, okay, this is a random pedestrian.

I'll just point this out.

She discovered the rnc pipe bomb at 1240 p.m

she reports that the pipe bomb with the mechanical timer that you describe the mechanical timer is stuck on 20 minutes so she discovers the pipe bomb in this like ensconced in this back alley not like immediately visible to anyone just By happenstance, she stumbles upon it.

At 1240, it's stuck on the dial 20 minutes left, such as to convey the exact impression precisely that it was set to go off at 1 p.m.

which happened to be when the certification proceedings were to take place in Congress.

But if it was set there at 8 o'clock and she didn't find it I mean it could have been set there at 8 o'clock to go off at 8 20.

Right.

You know what I mean?

You're just making an assumption that it stopped the minute she found it.

Right.

Well, I mean, the assumption has to be, I mean,

what can you assume?

Because this was planted the evening before.

Correct.

So what are the chances that she finds it to the exact minute?

Right.

The exact minute when the timer is stuck on 20 minutes.

She finds it at 12.40, it has 20 minutes left.

The certification proceeding is at 1, and the Ray Epps orchestrated

attack on the western perimeter of the Capitol happens at 12.52.

And so when she discovers this RNC pipe bomb at 1240, she calls in.

The Capitol Police start responding literally a minute before the Ray Eps breach on the Western perimeter.

So the discovery of the RNC pipe bomb was so precisely coordinated both to the Ray Eps assault on the Western perimeter and the certification proceeding that many officials, including the head of the Capitol Police, Stephen Sun, reasonably concluded that the pipe bombs were there for diversionary purposes, to divert from the

divert resources that would have been used to stop the Capitol breach, which would seem sensible but for the fact that it was discovered by a random pedestrian.

So how is this pipe bomber who plants it the evening before going to be confident that it's going to be discovered to the exact minute

to fulfill this diversionary purpose?

It doesn't make sense.

Nobody's asked these questions.

I mean, we're asking these questions.

Do we know if it's the same person that put the both bombs?

Because we have the one guy at the DNC.

Right.

I mean,

again, it's like the federal government is, you know, nailing people for future crimes.

But then when you have this really easy stuff, it's like they're stuck in 1956.

No, it's crazy.

And that's a great question.

We don't know exactly.

I think it is the same person.

And I think if unless they completely fake the surveillance footage, it looks like the same person.

But what is weird is, so we talked about the RNC pipe on being discovered and the timing of it.

Totally implausible, totally bizarre.

But then on the DNC side, you know, it was sitting right there in the open.

It wasn't discovered with an Service.

It wasn't discovered.

And think about this.

It was put there the evening before, allegedly.

And January 6th, the morning of Highfoot Traffic Day, nobody saw it.

No DNC employees sitting at the park bench having a coffee saw it.

We prove, we did a Google street analysis.

We show that there's a regularly positioned physical security guard within 10 feet of where the pipe bomb is planted.

That person

didn't see it.

And then the most elite protection detail in the world, the United States Secret Service, who's on record saying that they did the sweep of the entrance and exits.

They didn't find it, and they're reporting that it had live explosive devices, and the Secret Service dogs didn't.

You know, I say the dogs must have had COVID that day because their sense of smell was screwed up.

They just couldn't smell basic.

Like, it just doesn't make any sense.

And again, the DNC pipe bomb, think about it, if that were discovered early in the morning, then the response would have to be, okay, something is up.

We need to up security everywhere.

And that could have foiled that Western attack.

So it really had to be the bomb was discovered like right when the first attack occurred.

And that's exactly what happened.

And in order for that to happen, both the RNC pipe bomb had to be found under these incredibly bizarre and implausible circumstances, and the DNC pipe bomb had not to be found.

under equally bizarre circumstances.

And it just happens to be, and this is, we prove this, this is not, this is black or white, we prove this.

The surveillance footage that the FBI released of the DNC pipe bomber fails to include the footage of the DNC pipe armor actually putting down the bomb.

And we know that they have that footage because they've shown us footage from two different cameras.

One camera would have had a very good angle of the pipe bomber planting the bomb, and yet they show us footage from the other camera.

We know that they have both cameras because they've given us footage from both.

They just haven't given us the footage from the one that would show

the pipe iron plan.

Why would they do that?

You know, I could say, I know for a fact that they're withholding it.

I don't know why they would, but certainly in light of some of the things that we've just been talking about, it is deeply suspicious.

And I think it warrants, you know, it's one thing to understand all these things, and people are going to be listening to this saying, my God, this is so dark.

What in the world are we going to do about this?

And which is a good question.

I think

you really need to focus.

It helps to focus on one specific agenda item.

And the item that I'm focusing on is I think we need the full chain of custody of that digital, of that surveillance footage, and we need the full raw unedited footage released.

And

the reason that this is.

And you're not talking about the capital.

You're just talking about the DNC.

Just the DNC footage, because we've shown other things.

Like, the footage has a frame rate of 1.2 frames per second.

Nobody, no

security

has ever had that frame rate, correct?

No.

I mean, even the bad, really bad stop kind of

hilarious, Glenn.

We did a study on it.

It's like even the most

archaic, just trashy gas stations

have a frame rate of 10 frames per second, usually more than that.

You can't, you know, let's assume that they were going as cheap as possible.

And they're like, okay, we're the DNC headquarters.

We have VIPs who work here.

We have VIPs coming in and out.

We're in a city that's known for a very high violent crime rate.

There was a famous DNC staffer, Seth Rich, who was killed under some circumstances.

We'll just leave it at that.

An attempted break-in to the DNC, which was a different location, but still was DNC, was

spearheaded arguably, arguably the biggest political scandal in American history.

But we're just going to get the cheapest possible surveillance camera, even if that were the case.

But you said you can't find 1.2 frames per second.

I read your article.

You have to go to an eight

frames per second is the lowest, right?

You'd have to go and find an antique store.

That's where you'd have to get it.

Maybe they found an antique store with like the

two or three cameras that you could find with 1.2 frame rate, it doesn't make any sense.

It's clearly degraded footage.

Yet, another reason why we need the full unedited footage, and you know what?

You know, there's all this stuff going on in the house now, and you know, we could talk about that if you like, but um,

these guys they don't want to go further than they have to.

They're not gonna do anything unless they're bullied into it, and a lot of them, excepting a few real stalwarts, real brave people, and by the way, I have to commend you for covering this because a lot of people are scared to touch this.

This is something people don't want to touch.

So I don't know if you don't have a republic.

We don't have a republic if we don't have people like you

researching it.

But you and Bully, a lot of people, a lot of people in the news are scared to touch it.

And, you know, it's understandable, but at a certain point, you just have to have courage.

You just got to say it.

And if there's a lack of courage in much of the commentariat,

you know, forget about Congress.

But the thing is, the reason that this is so elegant with the security footage is you don't have to subscribe to this Fed surrection thesis to demand the footage.

You can simply say

January 6th was a horrible day.

Planting pipe bombs is a horrible thing.

It's an act of terror.

We support law and order, and we want to find who this terrorist is, whoever it is.

And in order to do that, we're demanding the full unedited footage.

That's all you have to say.

You don't have to say the revolver thesis is right about Fed Surrection.

It's so easy.

That's why, you know.

But you can't do that.

The FOIA doesn't apply because it's DNC, right?

So it's not a government.

Right.

It would have to be a court order that would force them to do that.

It's not the DNC, but the FBI has the footage.

Oh.

Yeah, I mean, it's released through the FBI.

That's the thing.

And, you know, a funny thing, which

I definitely want to get in, is that the guy who is the public face of the pipe bomb investigation, a real kind of third-rate scumbag called Stephen D'Antuono.

Okay, that name sounds fair.

Oh, yeah.

He was the public face of this pipe bomb investigation, and he's begging people, please, you know, help us, help us this or that.

These are the guys that released the footage.

And so that's why the chain of custody is interesting.

Did it go from the DNC to some kind of third-party contractor multimedia company that somehow like made the frame rate different?

You know, who knows?

And they can assuage these concerns simply by releasing the chain of custody and the full footage.

But it is interesting that the public face of the whole pipe bomb investigation, who, by the way, quietly resigned

not too long ago.

No, why would he do that?

You know, and let me tell you,

it's easy to.

I mean, we have to first tell who he is

so people know.

Okay, so this is a real beauty because I say he quietly resigned, but he resigned as quietly as he was put in the position in the first place.

He started at the Detroit field office of the FBI, where he oversaw the entire Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping

operation.

Okay, and

even reporters on the far left,

like BuzzFeed and others who have covered this particular case, acknowledge that it's just rife with

entrapment.

It's entrapment.

I mean, you know, that's a whole other issue, but something like, you know, over half of the people, like originally,

you know, thought to be plotters turned out to be feds.

There were, you know, actual agents and just all kinds of bizarre stuff.

Like one of the agents had to sort of drop out of getting testimony because he was caught like beating his wife.

And it's like, not high-quality people, like, just not high-quality people.

But that's a whole different story.

But it's so interesting.

Of all of the field agents who could have been handpicked and delivered to this coveted position in Washington, the Washington field office, Christopher Ray picks Stephen DiAntuono after having done his service overseeing the entrapment operation, the Michigan case, which, by the way, people think of it as a kidnapping case.

It also involved a so-called plot to go into the Michigan state capitol.

So there's a state capitol.

It involved one of the three main militia groups imputed to January 6th.

There's so many interesting parallels there.

And

right after the day after these so-called plotters were arrested, Christopher Wray plucked Stephen D'Antoni and said, Hey, why don't you go run the DC field office?

This was like October.

So in the months immediately leading up to January 6th and on to January 6th, this is the guy who's running it.

And then in the aftermath of

let's just run through in your mind

all of the amazing coincidence and timing.

Because I wouldn't want to go to Vegas because this is

these are impossible odds.

It's crazy odds, each event, one after another, after another, after another.

Absolutely.

And, you know, the funny thing is we've been really hitting the pipe on thing hard, especially our coverage of the surveillance footage and all the problems with that, because that really is a black and white.

You know,

we know that they have the footage of the pipe armor planning the bomb.

They didn't release it.

Why?

We know that it has a frame rate of 1.2 frames per second.

Why?

Like, these are

the advantage of these things that they're simply objective and verifiable.

You can't deny that.

It's out there in the public domain.

And so,

yeah, Stephen DiAntono just resigns.

And I've talked to people in the FBI, some current and some former, and they say, Look,

nobody resigns from that position.

That is a climber position.

That is the penultimate step before going to

the coveted floor in the Hoover building.

I think it's the seventh floor where everybody wants to go.

That's, you know, that's where McCabe was and all these other guys.

That's, you're in the bullpen waiting to be a big guy.

And all of a sudden, he just quietly resigns, and now he's an

and now he's an accountant at kpmg

oh my gosh

that's his payoff he's an accountant but the thing is is maybe it makes sense because when when doing this reporting like part of it and you know just to get a feel for things is you got to read people's body language and see what they're all about and get a sense of what's going on internally and some people are just

quote-unquote killers because some people you say okay here's a person who can hold really heavy dark secrets on their shoulders like it's nothing because they're made for that and they've been doing it for decades.

I think someone like Mike Cherdoff is one of those guys.

And I say that with some degree of respect.

He's a gangster.

He's, oh, what an interesting life.

I'd love to have dinner with that guy.

I said to him, I interviewed him maybe 2000,

2003, and it was terrifying.

He said to me, we were off air, and

somebody picked up their cell phone and he looked at me and he said,

you don't have a cell phone, do you?

And I said,

yeah,

don't you?

And he said,

only

morons carry a cell phone.

If people, this is 2002 or 3.

If people knew what could be tracked and done with your cell phone, no one would ever carry it.

I said, how do you run an an operation as big as you do without?

He said, I use email at my desk.

That was,

that's years before the iPhone.

Right.

No, I mean, this, this is,

I'd love to have a separate conversation about this.

And you know what?

It is

somewhat comforting because I think one common feature in our politics generally is people are, you know, there's the injury that they're all corrupt,

but the insult is that they're so clownish.

They're just not serious people.

And so every now and then, I kind of cling on to the people who do have Gravitas, and Trudoff is one of them.

I don't think he's a good guy, but at least, like, if you're going to have a villain,

have a serious one.

And he's one of these guys, but I just, I just paint him.

I agree with you on that.

But they're in charge of the entire mechanism.

Yes.

You know, so it's, so they might be clowns, and you might think, how can these guys not get caught?

They've been caught.

Right.

I mean, over and over and over and over again.

Right.

But they'll use those weapons against us as individuals who are saying, wait a minute, constitutional, let's look at the law here.

Right.

Let's make sure everybody is punished equally.

They don't care.

They don't care.

And just for clarification, I don't think Tridoff is a clown.

I think he's very serious.

He's one of the few very serious people left in the country, but I think he's on the wrong side.

But

I give him as an example of someone who routinely carries some of the darkest secrets imaginable on his shoulders, and that's just his life.

He's built for it.

He can handle it.

Stephen D'Antuono,

not so much.

Here's someone who had the look of just complete anxiety, complete sort of guilty conscience.

He got in over his head.

He's terrified.

He just couldn't handle it.

And,

you know, so maybe he belongs at KPNG, like, and maybe he's gotten the first good night's sleep of his life for a long time, but he just couldn't handle it.

He gave off so much

guilty energy, guilty body language.

And

somebody is in something like this.

I mean, I've said to my wife before, no, she said it to me.

She's like, I feel like we're living Jason Bourne's life.

You know, there have been moments in my life where things have, I've witnessed things and things have happened and you're like, wait, this is, I mean, this happens in movies.

This isn't real.

Right.

And the people who are, you know, the professionals in that are like, where do you think those things come from?

You don't think those things happen?

Right.

This is, he's a guy that if this was a big conspiracy in a movie, he'd be dead.

Right.

Wouldn't he?

If you're saying he can't carry this.

Well, he can't carry it, but, you know, he's, he's expendable in the sense that they just get rid of him.

But I don't think they'll, you know, in a certain degree, I was worried about Epps.

Like, you know, if Epps steps out of line,

who is he, do you think?

And by the way, make sure you delineate between your opinion and what we know.

Right.

Okay.

So, boy, there's...

My actual hypothesis about Epps is something that is not even...

We can talk off the record about that because it's very interesting but um you know Epps is from a Marine background

that's about all we know about him he had a barn in the in the southwest in Arizona he's lived in Queen Creek for a while

and

he's been he was head of the Arizona chapter of the Oath Keepers group which again it's like you'd think the Oath Keepers group was the most heavily prosecuted militia group in relation to January 6th, why wouldn't they jump at the opportunity to say, here's an oathkeeper guy who's telling people to go into the Capitol?

And you know, the thing is, and they have him sending a text message to his nephew saying, I orchestrated it.

Exact quote, verbatim, nothing.

And just to get to this.

Well, his explanation on that is, we joke like that.

Right.

No, it's so funny.

I encourage everybody, if you can, go and actually read the January 6th transcript of their interview with Ray Epps because,

you know, it's interesting.

Some of the people on the committee asked surprisingly good questions.

Better questions, for instance, than the New York Times guy who did a profile of Ray Epps and basically asked nothing remotely relevant to what Epps was doing.

It was literally just a puff piece, a sob story about how Revolver News and like Tucker Carlson were destroying his life from these conspiracy theories.

No question pertaining to the substance of those theories whatsoever, and a Saab story with a picture of him standing in front of a trailer.

We know that he sold his ranch for over $2 million.

He's not exactly destitute.

But the J6 committee thing, he's caught in so many lies.

So, first of all, he said, they said, why were you there in the first place at BLM Plaza and the evening of the 5th?

What put you there in the first place?

And he said,

I heard rumors that people were insulting the police, and I just wanted to make sure that I could pacify the crowd so I needed to be there to pacify the crowd and and then they say okay well what about all this stuff about telling people to go into the Capitol what was that about

you're on video not pacify no you're on video what what is that about he said you know I mean the the chutzpah of this guy is amazing he says you know

I thought it was legal.

I thought the Capitol would be open and they would just open the doors for us, which is actually an interesting statement given the fact that there is footage of, you know, in some cases, the police actually opening the doors for people.

But his answer was, I thought it would be totally legal.

The Capitol would be open and they just opened the door.

The spirit of what he was saying.

But no, you're absolutely right.

But he said, I thought it was legal.

Well, if you look at the video, he very carefully and methodically,

and in this seemingly rehearsed fashion, prefaces both exhortations by saying, I'm probably going to get arrested for this.

I'm probably going to go to jail for this, but we need to go into the Capitol.

He says that both times.

So if you thought it was legal, why are you going to say, I'm probably going to get arrested for this?

And he said, you know, I don't know.

That was just a poor choice of words.

And they said, so what brought you to DC in the first place?

He said, well, you know, my son really wanted to attend the Trump speech, and my wife was worried about him.

So my wife made me go to look after my son.

Well, number one, he skips this Trump speech entirely and instead goes directly to the Capitol before everyone else.

He's telling people to go to the Capitol after the speech, and he positions himself at the exact place at the exact time of the first breach.

Secondly, he abandons his son.

They say, where's his son?

He abandons his son.

They ask him about it.

He says, I don't know.

There's a famous clip when he's telling people to go into the Capitol.

The crowd, you know, to their credit, immediately understood there was something off with this guy, so they chanted, Fed, Fed, Fed.

So the committee members asked him, so what about that chant?

This is the remarkable remarkable part.

He said, you know, I don't remember that chant.

And my son says he doesn't remember that chant.

I don't think it happened.

I think that was doctored footage.

Oh my God.

Are you sure?

Oh my God.

This is the level of delusion.

And there's another, the part that I was most impressed by with the committee was he says, by the time I got to that breach location by the bike racks and everything, that's when it occurred to me, okay, it's not okay to go into the Capitol and I abandon any idea of going in there at that point.

Well, unfortunately, there's video that Revolver.news released of him telling another guy who's an interesting character in his own right, known to researchers as Maroon Prowboy, he's carrying bear spray.

He tells him,

when we go in, leave this here, referring to the bear spray.

We don't want to get shot.

And so I was thinking that immediately because, you know, we released that video.

But amazingly, somebody in the committee knew about that video and they said, What about the video of you saying when we go in?

And he said, Oh, I don't really remember that.

And by the way, just a side point, I don't want to get too sidetracked on this, but that thing where he says, When we go in, leave this here.

In a different context, in a different prosecution, there were two people, one called Cater and one called Tanios.

And

they were actually charged with very serious conspiracy charges for saying no, no, not yet when someone said, is it time to use the bear spray?

So to say no, no, not yet, the yet presumably indicating that there was some kind of intention to use in the future, that was considered enough for a major conspiracy charge.

And yet they have EPS on camera with everything else saying when we go in, leave this here to another guy who actually did go in and he did a bunch of destructive stuff.

So, I mean,

what else can we say?

The EPS stuff is obvious.

The EPS stuff is dark.

Will we ever get to the very bottom of it?

It's hard given, you know, some of the things I think you might be involved in.

I would love to, you know, really get to the bottom of it.

I think in terms of actually

getting results, I think the pipe bomb stuff might be more fruitful area, at least as far as subpoenas go, just because it's kind of a mechanical black or white issue.

It's easier for the politicians to say, we just want the footage.

Why doesn't the DNC want the full raw and unedited footage?

Then, based on what that reveals, that might create the necessary pressure to get the full story on apps.

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So

theories.

Was there a mastermind of this?

Was when did it when do you think this started percolating?

Because they're supposedly in January 6th committee looking for who are the ringleaders, who are the kingpins, and how long had this been going on?

Right.

So

if it is

some sort of an operation

made to look,

look, make the Trump people look bad,

who do you think was responsible?

How far up the chain of command do you think this goes?

And where does it go?

Which agency...

Right.

No, that's a great question.

And just, you know, this is highly speculative territory, so I can just give my best guess.

I think that, you know, first of all, all of these militia groups, they're so heavily infiltrated, it's insane.

Like it came out that the number two guy at Oath Keepers was an FBI informant.

So many of the proud boys, like including the top guy, had relationships with the FBI.

Why did they they even make it to the Capitol?

If they're not active informants, then they're being surveilled anyway.

Like, there's just no way the government isn't tracking.

They don't know what's going on with these groups.

Came out that multiple Proud Boys were being surveilled, and Proud Boys' informants were informing the FBI in real time as January 6th unfolded.

So, the idea that they were just completely caught off guard is absolute rubbish.

They knew something was going to happen, and and people can conclude for themselves why there was uniquely poor security on that day.

Now I think in addition to that, the sort of let it happen on purpose aspect, there were certain pockets of groups that, again, like I said, played key roles in allowing for it to turn into a riot.

Certain things like crowd control, people like EPS directing people to the Capitol, planting the idea of going in, people like the scaffold commander who is exercising sort of crowd control from the top of the scaffold, telling people to move forward, positioning themselves for this to happen.

And then, of course, cutting all the fencing and barriers so people trespassed, not even knowing that they were committing a crime.

Because usually it's not a crime to be in that specific area of the capital, only on that day they were.

So, all of these things kind of created the opportunity for this to happen.

What organization ran this?

That's an excellent question.

I have strong suspicions about the Department of Homeland Security.

The Department of Homeland Security has been really the tip of the spear as far as this domestic war on terror goes.

Department of Homeland Security, you know, there's a lot of talk about the FBI, and I think people like D'Antuono and Ray know what was going on.

But actually, you know, as bad as the FBI is, the fact that it's a law enforcement agency and there are all sorts of protocols and constraints that go with law enforcement, that shackles you a lot more than is simply an intelligence group.

And the DHS is not a law enforcement agency.

And this gets to another interesting thing, if you'll pardon a digression about Epps.

So, Ray Epps's lawyer, who happens to be a nine-year veteran of the Phoenix FBI field office, Ray Epps's lawyer has consistently and emphatically and explicitly denied Ray Epps' involvement with law enforcement.

And it's very interesting, even if you look at the January 6th Committee transcript, there's this really heavy sort of legalistic leaning on the term law enforcement.

He's not a member of a law enforcement agent, law enforcement.

Well,

I don't think he is, but the DHS is not a law enforcement agency.

Military intelligence is not a law enforcement agency, not to mention any of the other kind of cut-out contractor type arrangements.

And so it's like, and especially, you know, one time the lawyer was asked, so you say he's not a member of law enforcement agency.

He says, absolutely not.

And then they say, well, was he involved with any government agency?

And he says, not to my knowledge.

So,

you know, when a lawyer says that, like, if he just said, not to my knowledge about everything, then he wouldn't really be giving information.

But if he's so precise about law enforcement and then asked about, well, what about any government agency?

and then says, not to my knowledge, either he's lying or he told Epps, whatever else you were into, I don't want to know.

No.

We said at the same time.

Yeah.

So let me go back here for a second.

I have seen this as

some bad characters around the country that would have really not posed any threat.

I mean, it would have, you know, it would have been sloppy, sloppier than it already was.

It would have been sloppy, but it wouldn't have turned into really anything,

especially not something as bad as the Civil War.

And then

people like Ray Epps get involved, and they are making things worse, and they might be working for some dark agency or something like that.

Right.

But generally speaking, it wasn't planned, it was used.

I think so.

I mean, you know, this gets to a really interesting question about how the structure of these things work.

Where's the zone where stuff actually happens?

And

it's hard to know because there's so little visibility into it.

I think these intelligence bureaucracies are so bloated and dysfunctional that I don't for a second imagine any kind of,

conventional, hierarchical, sort of top-down plan.

I think within these agencies, there are sort of subgroups and networks that

probably have been doing this for a long time.

In the case of Ray Epps, if you've seen these videos, he's actually very impressive.

He's an expert in crowd control.

He knows what he's doing.

And this isn't their first rodeo.

And the case of Merrick Garland, this isn't his first rodeo.

I know a lot of people have forgotten.

He was in charge of the quote-unquote domestic terrorism portfolio going way back to the 90s under Clinton and the DOJ.

And, I mean, I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, but

there are a lot of questions, frankly, about the Oklahoma City bombing.

I'll just leave it at that.

And he was in charge of that.

And he was in charge of that.

And, in fact, he was one of the main cleanup guys for that, as was Eric Holder, incidentally.

And so

this thing goes back really far.

And, you know, it's interesting to get into all these details, but I think the details are only so important if we don't have the broader framework.

And so it's like, what does it tell us about our government?

What kind of system do we live in?

Well, for one, it tells us that the national security state is, I think, the chief bottleneck to political progress.

And unless we

bring that to heel, politics would basically be fake and performative.

And secondly, I don't think these actors really reinvent the playbook all that much.

You know, it's in many ways the same kind of people doing the same things.

And the idea that

January 6th, it could have been a Fed surrection in the sense that I've been talking about, that really isn't that shocking when you think of what our actual history is.

And

they're doing what they've been doing for a long time.

And

maybe it is time.

I think it is time for a church-style committee to uncover all these abuses.

The only problem is, how do you get the people who are capable of doing that?

And how deep does it go?

Can you actually cut the cancer out?

Right.

Because

it, I mean,

it seems

like it is spread to all of our lymph nodes.

Right.

I was talking to a

researcher, a scholar, academic, who has spent his life with the JFK papers.

Interesting.

And, you know,

they just failed to release some more.

Oh, boy.

And what they didn't release, I was talking to him, and he said, this is all the CIA stuff.

The only thing that's left is the CIA stuff.

And they knew.

They knew.

I'm not saying that they planned the shooting, but they knew who he was.

He was an operative for the CIA, et cetera, et cetera.

And they don't want it to come out because they don't want the CIA besmirched.

I'm like, well, you can't besmirch them more than they've already besmirched themselves.

But I said to him,

because he brought up the church committee, and I said,

but you know,

if they were involved in Kennedy, they were involved again in Watergate.

And we know how that happened.

And now they're again involved in whatever is going on here.

Right.

He

went

livid, like bat crap crazy on me for a second.

Stopped me.

Don't you compare what happened in Watergate and JFK with January 6th.

Really?

Yeah.

Went nuts.

Wow.

And I said, okay, well,

I'm not.

You know, I'm not you, so I don't know what you have.

We can keep it about JFK, but I just find it hard to believe that you don't see any parallels.

None.

Right.

Imagine what he thought when Biden compared to the Civil War.

No, it's really interesting.

Now, the JFK stuff is interesting.

I did an interview with Trump recently and asked him about this.

And because, you know, originally he was really pushing for the documents to come out.

Some of them did.

But,

you know, he acknowledged it somewhat reluctantly, but he acknowledged that, you know, Pompeo was really leading the pushback against this.

And,

you know,

it's probably very embarrassing for the CIA.

It's probably very embarrassing.

It almost makes you think that whatever comes out,

if they're fighting it so hard, they would probably fight something that exposes incompetence and make them look like clowns.

And they probably like all of these Hollywood shows that portray CIA people as these like highly effective James Bond guys.

I don't know if it's been like that for a while.

Maybe during the JFK

period, that was sort of the last throw of the CIA's competence.

I think now there are some foreign agencies that are competent.

CIA,

maybe not so much.

But no, you're absolutely right.

This is the front and center issue.

This is the chief bottleneck to progress.

And you know, we also have to understand this in the broader context of the fact that we have this very same national security apparatus trying to gin us up for a new Cold War with China.

And so there's this weird situation of people

and Russia.

There's a weird situation of people on the right where domestically they're the whipping boy of the national security state.

But then on the national security say, okay, we're going to suspend whipping you for two seconds so you can go and put on the uniform and fight our enemies in China.

It's like, it's such a weird weird thing.

And frankly, I think.

I think right now, though, I mean, you know, your background is political philosophy.

So

I think everything is in flux.

I mean, I'm a conservative since Reagan.

Right.

But

the Glenn Beck of

2000 to the Glenn Beck of 2023, completely different.

Yeah.

I mean, I was a, hey, peace through strength, go teach them a lesson.

You know what I mean?

Right.

And I still am peace through strength, but

I'm not for whatever you're doing over there, that's your business.

Right.

Don't screw with us and we won't screw with you.

We keep doing these same things over and over again.

And the left and the right have switched places on so many things.

You know, I was for the Patriot Act for maybe a couple of months

until I kind of really thought, oh, you know,

they'll never give that power back.

But the people who were against the Patriot Act are now for all the things that are happening.

The people who were against all of these foreign wars are now seemingly wanting all of these things.

And I don't mean the traditional

politician, but I think the average person

knows none of this has worked in the past.

And what we're doing now is not working.

and what both sides are offering is just a path to hell.

Right.

No, it seems like a kind of fundamental incongruence, whereby so many Americans who are probably on the conservative side of things, they face day-to-day demoralization propaganda, effectively treated as domestic terrorists.

And yet, these are going to be the people that the national security state will expect to fight and die for Taiwan.

You know, how long is a situation like that sustainable?

Maybe the propaganda is so good it is sustainable.

I don't think so.

I will tell you this.

I have never had a problem with one of my children wanting to go into the military.

My son is asked, I'm thinking about going to the military.

Nope.

Right.

Nope.

I don't trust the military at all.

I don't want you on some foreign adventure doing crap that you shouldn't be doing.

No.

Right.

I mean, that is astounding

coming from a guy like me who has supported the military my entire life.

Right.

And, you know, it's to your great credit because it is an uncomfortable thing.

Because I think, especially for conservatives, dispositionally, we want to venerate these institutions.

We want to venerate the military.

We even want to venerate, you know, DOJ, FBI, maybe even CIA.

You know, we want to venerate all these, but to understand that they're not only corrupt, they're actively hostile.

And that's what's not.

To me, it's not

they can call me whatever I, whatever they want.

To me,

I have, I mean, I've had the FBI in my house because one of my kids was involved in somebody was trying to kidnap one of my kids.

And so I had the FBI in my house, and I respect them.

Right.

But I thought about this a lot in the last couple of years.

I'm not sure I would trust the FBI even in my house at this point.

You know, whatever they needed, you got it.

You got it.

Now,

I'm suspect on

everything

anyone attached to the government does.

And I don't want to venerate these institutions unless they're constitutional.

I

venerated them because I believed we were following,

we were doing the things that we all told each other we were doing.

I don't think we've done that in a very long time.

Absolutely.

And, you know, you see all of this cheap rhetoric coming from a lot of politicians who will, again, you know, I think the situation in China is very bad.

We don't want to become like China.

That's the one thing.

But they point their fingers at China.

They're so comfortable talking about, oh, look what's going on with the Uyghurs.

Look what's going on with the oppression in China, which is fine.

Like, there's nothing wrong with that.

But if you're going to talk about that and not talk about January 6th, if you're going to talk about that and not talk about the situation our own country is in, it almost seems like these foreign policy things like China and definitely Russia are just a distraction from the fact that no one knows what to do with this national security state problem.

They're terrified to touch it.

And so they can sound tough saying, oh, look at there, look at what's going on in China, look how bad the CHICOMs are.

And meanwhile, the FBI raids another, you know, innocent family for having been within a mile of the capital on January 6th.

It's a farce.

It's a deflection.

And I think we all really need to stop being these cheap dates that allow them to get away with these types of deflection and say, you need to address the stuff that actually matters to our country.

And maybe when we fix our country and the corrupt, degenerate, really illegitimate people who control it, then we can worry about foreign policy because as long as America is corrupt as it is,

winning and geopolitically is simply enhancing the power of the corruption that controls the country.

I know.

It is.

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You know, I said, I think in 2008,

if we don't clean this up and admit the errors of our ways and clean it up, there's going to come a time when we are the darkest force ever.

to be in power on earth.

And with our technology, especially the stuff that is right around the corner, my gosh, we're going to make the Nazis look like rookies

if we don't reign this in.

It's terrifying.

Right.

No, it really is.

It's like we have different choice between different authoritarian systems.

China is an authoritarian system.

They say, well, we're basically becoming China plus drag queens.

That's the trajectory we're going in.

We're China plus drag queens.

And in a way, like China is a very desolate place.

It's bleak.

It It doesn't provide a very inspiring vision of the world, but they don't subject their own people to constant demoralization propaganda so people are ashamed of being Chinese.

They do a lot of other things that, you know, they don't

implement a kind of massive immigration program to

basically replace China.

There's certain pathologies that are so acute and so unique to the West that we really need to address these before we start pointing our fingers at what other countries are doing, including China and Russia.

It's

whenever somebody's on a human rights panel at the UN and it's Venezuela or it's Iran,

you think, how is that possible?

Right.

How are we going around the world?

saying, hey, you got to clean these things up.

You got to, you know, we stand for justice.

Right.

We, you know, I think the GIs

in World War II,

atrocities

in every war, people go off the reservations.

But I think for the most part,

the world saw us,

Europe saw us as liberators, and we wanted to liberate them.

And we didn't want any of their stuff.

Right.

That's, that's the standard that's in my head.

Right.

You know, and I know bad things happen, but generally speaking, we tried to do the right thing.

Right.

I understand why people all around the world

hate

our interventional, you know, our interventions in their lives.

If you say we stand for higher values and we don't torture, then that means we don't have ghost planes that pick you up and then take you to some rat-infested country where they do torture and we just stand there and go, we're innocent.

That's bull crap.

I'd hate us too.

I do.

In many ways, what the things we're doing.

I found myself after working with the State Department on the

Afghanistan thing.

You should write a story on this.

It was so corrupt.

We were trying to get these people out of Afghanistan.

The State Department was so corrupt.

At one point,

they said we had hurdle after hurdle after hurdle.

They were the biggest problem.

And

when

we

finally got permission to let people out, they said, oh, you need one more form, and these people don't have it.

We're like, we have all the form.

What are you talking about?

It's a new form.

They had come up with it the night before.

There's a new form.

Where do we get the new form?

We have to get it at the U.S.

Embassy.

You closed the U.S.

Embassy.

The guy from the State Department actually laughed and said, you're just going to have to figure that out then.

Unbelievable.

And I got to the point on that seeing,

and this is so odd for me.

No way I would ever say this.

I got on the air right after that and I said, if this is who we are, I denounce my citizenship.

I do not want my name on the United States of America if this is who we're choosing to be.

Right.

Can we clean this up?

Because it's deep.

You know, it's really hard because there's such a tremendous appetite for

fake feel-good answers to that question.

There is such an economy built upon fake answers to that question.

The reality is, I don't think, you know, you know, people say, oh, you don't want to despair.

You don't want to be quote-unquote black pilled.

That means that you're just thinking, oh, it's all ruined.

It's all over.

I don't think that's the case at all.

But to me, it's what's actually demoralizing is to see when people cling on to...

cope mechanisms that aren't a real path to victory.

And the first stage is to have the strength to soberly acknowledge how bad things actually are.

And then you work from there.

You're working with reality.

No, absolutely.

And it's, to me, I find it invigorating to work with reality.

I find it demoralizing to work on the basis of cope.

I've said this over and over again.

If I go to a doctor and I have cancer and he's like, nah, it's a chest cold.

That doesn't give me hope.

Him saying, yes, you have cancer, but we can treat it.

Don't know how the outcome is, but this is what you have to do.

That gives me hope.

Right.

Where are the people that are willing to say, here's the hard work you have to do?

Right?

Thank you so much for all of the work that you guys do.

We have been watching all of your coverage on January 6th and

you're the only ones that are really digging in.

So thank you for that.

Thank you.

It's a great honor to be here.

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.