Best of The Program | Guests: Mark Levin & Sean Larkin | 7/13/21

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Welcome to the podcast.

Today we have Mark Levin on.

Oh, great, great.

I mean, what he has to say is

really akin to

Thomas Paine and the American crisis, which actually got the guys to turn around with George Washington and go into the boat and cross the Delaware.

You don't want to miss Mark Levin.

Also,

we told you a little bit about the conspiracy theory that is all very well laid out, called the Great Reset.

It was called System X by the guy who actually coined the phrase the New Deal back in the 1940s.

He laid it out, and if you look at it, it's all being done, and it is almost verbatim what Joe Biden is talking about today.

All this and so much more on today's podcast.

You're listening to the best of the Blenbeck program.

My next guest

is

a good, dear friend, an amazing patriot.

I think he's the closest we have in the conservative world to a William F.

Buckley today.

To say he's a talk show host is kind of an insult.

He is a scholar, which is also kind of an insult.

He's the good kind of scholar who knows the truth,

can see the patterns and can see a path forward and shows us how to fight back.

If he were a founding father, I think he would be John Adams.

Welcome to the program, Mr.

Mark Levin.

Wow, I should come on more often.

Thank you very, very much.

I appreciate that.

You're welcome.

So you have a new book out called American Marxism, and

I got a lot of questions about it.

It's an excellent, excellent book.

You don't need me praising it to

sell it.

But you go into

the revolution that is happening right now, and you say, I mean, your first chapter is, it's here.

Could you do me a favor?

I want you to talk to somebody who is not engaged in daily politics.

They're not, they're not, they don't listen to us.

They're still being led by their feelings.

They think they're doing good by being anti-racist, or they think they're being good by standing up for all the things that these Marxists are standing up for.

Convince them that this is happening, it's real, and it's going to destroy all of us.

This is a great question, and it's really the embodiment of the entire first chapter.

And the title, American Marxism.

First of all, we who do understand what's taking place have have got to stop being intimidated.

This isn't progressivism or social activism or democratic socialism.

This is Marxism.

Now, it may not be Marxism in every particular, but it is an Americanized form of Marxism.

Now, how do we know that?

Because they tell us that.

That's what their people write about, their founders in the 60s and 50s and 40s and even in the 70s.

So what I would say to the, and I do to my audience too, what I would say to people is, first of all, you need to pay attention to what's taking place.

Secondly, you need to turn off CNN and MSNBC and stop reading the New York Times and the Washington Post.

Thirdly, you've seen it with your own two eyes.

You saw the riots all summer long.

You saw Black Lives Matter, which is headed by openly proud Marxists.

You see Antifa, which is a Marxist anarchist organization.

You see the media that you have been watching and reading endorse every single one of these movements.

There's not a distinction of any kind between what happens on television and what Black Lives Matter is promoting or even Antifa is promoting.

And they also cover up the violence or try to dismiss it.

Same with the Democrat Party.

The Democrat Party, talk to them.

Say, don't you believe in an independent judiciary when you go to court?

Do you want politicians sitting on the bench or do you want judges sitting on the bench?

Well, the Democrats want politicians sitting on the bench.

They want to destroy separation of powers.

They want to destroy destroy the functioning of the Senate by packing it with Democrats.

They want to destroy the way

the legislative process works.

So even if it's 50-50 in the Senate or a four-vote majority in the House, it can fundamentally alter our constitutional system.

Do you like the money you earn?

Do you like the home you own?

Do you like the community you're in?

Well, Joe Biden has signed executive orders to destroy all of it.

with his attack on the suburbs and also in the cities.

Do you like your local school system?

Do you like where your kids are being educated?

Crime infested.

Kids aren't graduating.

They're not going on to college.

Why do you tolerate that?

Well, the Democrats are preventing us from having school choice.

They're preventing us from having any form of freedom and competition in the inner cities.

And so I would explain this on a level that apparently the Republican leadership cannot explain it.

The book tries to do the look, this is a unique book for me.

It's at three levels.

One, there's heavy scholarship, but I explain it.

So I might take a paragraph from one of them and then have a paragraph explaining it.

Right.

I thank you for that because if you read Marx,

it's, I mean, mind-boggling how ridiculous and convoluted I think it is.

The other thing is

he destroys the idea of an individual, and you're talking to an individual.

You say, you know, you lead your own life.

You have your family if you do.

You have your career that you want.

There are things you like to do.

Well, when it comes to Marx, he eliminates all that.

You have to work for the state.

It's what the state wants.

He believes that you have to surrender your liberty.

You have to surrender your property to the best interests of the state.

And what's the state?

Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and faceless bureaucrats who don't even know who you are?

You're going to surrender your life and your family?

It's a form of involuntary servitude.

That's what Marxism is.

So basically, we have to, to,

people have been brainwashed, or as I say in the first chapter, people have not been paying attention or they view this as a passing fad.

And I try to make the case in the first chapter, no, it's not.

And we all need to wake up to this.

And if we have little differences, moderate Democrats and libertarians and so forth, you better put them aside right now because we have a common enemy.

I say enemy, not opponent, not adversary, enemy.

And we need to be focused on defeating that enemy rather than fighting among ourselves.

You know, a footnote on this, Glenn, because, you know, you're a man of faith.

I'm a man of faith.

I think of the second temple in Israel, in Jerusalem.

And while the Romans for four or four and a half years were attacking the temple, trying to slaughter the Jews, they were fighting among themselves.

They were fighting among themselves.

As they were being attacked, they were attacking each other.

Well, the temple fell.

There's no guarantee that this country will survive as a free country.

We're not looking into the abyss now.

We're in the abyss.

And we have to figure out how to claw our way out.

And so, not to jump ahead, this book is six chapters of explanation and one chapter of activism.

For me, it's a very unique book

in the way that I wrote it.

I think it's by far my most important book, given what's going on today.

But you look at the attack on the cops.

You look at Soros with the prosecutors.

You look at phony bail reform.

You look at the open board.

All these things are intended to destroy our system, destroy our culture, destroy our tradition, destroy our mores.

Now, if that's not Marxism, then what the hell is it?

So let me ask you, because you go into this in depth, and I can't thank you enough for the Cloward and Piven mentions in there.

You're the guy that really.

Let me just give you a little kudos here.

You're the guy that brought them to my attention to most of the countries.

And

the husband's dead, and she hates your guts, by the way.

I'm very well aware of that.

Very well aware of that.

I wear it as a badge of honor.

But you go into all of this and I think, Mark, that there is

two things going on.

And

I think that

what is so strange that people can't figure out what they're like, what is happening?

Because you have giant corporations involved in this and Marxists.

Well, those two don't go together.

And I think the

elites, the real elites, the very, very wealthy corporations

and people like

Klaus Schwab,

I think that they are using these Marxist revolutionaries

as useful idiots.

They're going to destroy it and we'll be there with the answer.

And it won't be what the Marxists want.

I have a little different take on this.

I think,

and either of us could be right, because who knows?

I know.

I think these corporations have decided that the other side's going to win.

And these are not capitalists, they're corporatists.

Yes.

And you see them, they operate in China.

They operated during the Third Reich

because China needs them and the Third Reich needed them as long as they behave as they demand.

And I think a lot of these corporatists are no different.

And that is this.

They believe the Democrat Party, they believe the culture, they believe it's all been conquered.

And rather than face the wrath, they're going to throw in with them.

They'll pay the higher taxes.

They'll deal with the regulations.

And they will use them to help crush their opponents, which is what they're doing.

Which is what the Democrat Party is trying to do with the voting rules with the Republicans.

And they'll use them to crush their opponents and uh because for the democrat party glenn it's about the democratic party like a marxist party what what is what what is china it's the communist party what is cuba it's the communist party what is north korea it's the communist part the country's irrelevant the people don't matter right the power's in the party well what is the democrat party trying to do you're going to have uh joe biden who's going to go on about jim crow and attack these republican legislatures because that's all that stands between them and absolute control of this country?

They did it in California.

They've done their experiments in different states.

Now they want to nationalize the process.

So it doesn't matter if you vote.

It doesn't matter if the state legislatures are Republican.

They are going to nationalize it.

They're going to have one party rule because the power, the authority, the allegiance is to the party.

Let me ask you.

Corporations, I think, see this.

Let me ask you about CRT.

You've got a whole chapter on CRT, but you go into

Latcrit, which

most people don't even know about.

And

it's going to be the same argument that they're using now on

CRT, which is that's just an obscure legal thing.

It's not really even anything.

Can you talk about Latcrit and also CRT?

And because you call it out as evil

it's so obscure they're obsessed with it and they're teaching it everywhere yeah

Latcrit look they talk about intersectionality and this is the way they pull in all these these Marxist movements that have been spawned from Marxism they're American Marxist movements Americanized movements

And I explain in the book a guy by the name of Herbert Arcus, who was a Marxist in Berlin.

After World War I, the communists and the fascists were fighting.

Hitler took over.

He couldn't understand why the proletariat didn't rise up.

And you'll notice something.

The proletariat never rises up.

It's always a cabal or a third or whatever it is of the population taking charge.

There is no rising up of any proletariat bomb.

There's no proletariat in this country rising up.

It's the middle class.

Do you think the middle class wants to overthrow the government?

No.

So anyway, this guy was trying to,

he escapes Germany, comes to the United States.

He winds up working for three different Ivy League colleges where he's tenured.

And he's spreading this Marxism crap, and

he can't figure out.

And so he comes up with critical theory, the Franklin School, all these Marxists, and he's the lead.

Critical theory, which spawned in our law schools, Harvard, Stanford, and so forth, which is all law is corrupt.

Now, why is it corrupt?

Because it needs to be viewed through the eyes of those who've made it and not the victims of it.

And so there's another professor by the name of Derek Bell who said, this is a great idea.

I'm going to apply that to race.

That is, you have to view everything through race.

And because we have this white dominant society, everything wrong in this society, everything right, of course, is a result of the minorities, but everything wrong is a result of the majority.

And so it's this white dominant culture.

If we don't destroy this, then there'll never be equity.

And they reject a colorblind society.

They reject Martin Luther King.

They despise the whole civil rights movement.

That's crazy.

As Marx despised socialism, because he said these halfway measures are stopping the revolution.

So it comes from him.

It comes from this guy, Derek Bell.

And what it is, what does Marx say?

Destroy history.

The world begins today.

Destroy history.

The monuments come down.

The books are burning.

We're going to brainwash our kids in school on race.

They're really being brainwashed on Marxism.

And you have some very smart people showing up at these school board meetings, and they're pointing it out.

And we need to have the guts not to be intimidated to call what it is.

We're with Mark Levin.

He is our partner here at Blaze TV.

He's the host of Levin TV, author of, I think

this will be your seventh consecutive number one book, I believe.

It's called American Marxism.

He believes, and I believe, it's a hard one to choose.

I believe at least one of his most important books, if not the most important book that he has written, it comes out today.

So let's go to Latcrit quickly, and then I want to talk about chapter seven.

Sorry, I've got the worst cell phone in America.

I'm sure it was made in China.

Anyway, so

Latcrit, very quickly, is an ideology that takes from critical race theory, as you surmised, and it's being pushed in our colleges now.

It's called the Chicano movement.

And basically what it says is, bottom line, the illegal aliens are the white people in America.

Because you see, the white Protestant Europeans conquered this territory.

And so we are the illegal aliens, and I'm not Protestant, but that's beside the point.

The majority are the illegal aliens.

The indigenous peoples are the people of the two Americas, North and South America.

So if they're pouring across the border, they're doing nothing more than taking back what belongs to them.

Now, by the way, most of these Marxists don't look at the Middle East that way.

They don't say, hey, you know what?

The Jews were there 4,000 years ago.

No, no, no.

They don't view it that way.

So

if you're speaking Spanish,

that is most likely because you're not indigenous.

You have relatives and

genealogy that will go back to Spain.

Spain conquered

Mexico.

What are you talking about?

It's all so result-oriented.

It's also so preposterous, but this is why the borders open.

Because Biden is a foil, he's an empty suit, and these radical agendas, you go down each one, that's why they're being pushed.

Now, you wanted to get to the last chapter.

I don't want to step on your toes here.

So let's go to the last chapter.

You're proposing a way forward, and it includes boycotts.

And

we have two minutes.

I happen to agree with Martin Luther King.

He said if it wasn't for the boycotts, we wouldn't have had any teeth and it wouldn't have worked.

But that goes against so many people.

You know, conservatives generally are like, hey, listen, they have a right to say that.

I'm not going to boycott.

Give me your plan, your way forward here in a two-minute period.

Gee, I seem to remember we had a revolution where they boycotted a lot, British goods and so forth and so on.

My attitude is this, the BDS movement, and I explain it in detail 10,000 words in that chapter, we ought to apply the BDS movement, an anti-Semitic movement aimed to destroy Israel, boycott, divest, and so forth, and sanction

against our enemies.

Not because we're anti-Semitic, but these are pretty good tactics.

Same with Alinsky.

We should target groups and expose them.

Same with Clowert and Piven.

We should overwhelm groups.

Perfect example, shareholder meetings.

Do conservatives even go to shareholder meetings?

Leftists do.

And they raise their voices about so-called climate change.

Well, you know what?

We ought to start showing up in MASS.

We ought to be going to board meetings.

And there are organizations out there, and I provide links and contacts throughout the last chapter.

This is what they do.

We need to join them.

We need to create a network of what I call community committees in county after county where we share information and so forth.

There's a lot of that in the last chapter.

If people want to check it out, Mark Levin, this isn't Thomas Paine's common sense.

This is the American crisis,

which

got the guys back into the boats and had them go back north and cross the Delaware.

Mark, thank you so much.

It is available everywhere you get books.

It is out today.

It is called American Marxism by Mark Levin.

The best of the Glen Bank program.

So, we have to be eternally vigilant and new technologies that can change the world and overthrow our freedoms.

Let me give you a story from yesterday: the Biden administration casting conservative opponents of the COVID-19 vaccine campaign as dangerous and extreme.

This is new terminology from them.

If you don't believe in the vaccine, which I do, I just choose not to get it because I've already had COVID.

I still have the antibodies.

I'm going to let my body do the work.

But I have no problem if somebody wants to take the vaccine.

I would not give it to my kids, but I certainly would recommend it for my parents or anybody else.

In fact, we have urged our parents to get it and they have.

But if you don't take it,

you are dangerous and extreme.

Now, this is a political posture.

And the reason why they're doing it is to convince people that we

should take it.

Hey, you dangerous extremist.

You should get the vaccine.

I don't think, no.

I don't think you're calling me a dangerous extremist and you're going door to door.

Now,

Fauci said yesterday that

there's this misunderstanding, a bunch of federal workers knocking on your door telling you got to do something you don't want to do.

He said, that's not what it is.

It's not the case.

It's trusted messengers who are part of the community doing that, not government officials.

I don't care who it is.

I don't care who it is.

Why not just give the vaccine to my doctor?

And my doctor can help me make the decision and my doctor can give me the vaccine when I'm in the office.

I get my flu shot that way.

Why can't I do that?

Wouldn't make sense.

Now, there's something buried in this story.

And here's what it is.

Biden-allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee,

are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that are sent over social media and text messages.

Huh.

Now the story goes back into how the Biden administration want to take politics completely out of this.

But wait a bit, hold it just a second, wait a minute.

The Democratic National Committee and Biden allied groups are planning to engage fact checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that are sent over social media and text messages.

Now I've got a few questions that apparently the Politico doesn't want to answer or doesn't even think that they're they're important.

In responding to the political story, Leslie Palma, she just

average American just said, I think you buried the lead in your story.

DNC reading text messages is pretty damn scary.

Well, the author at Politico said, as the story points out, it's allied private groups that are working with SMS carriers, not the White House.

Right, right, right.

She didn't say that.

She said, it's the DNC reading text messages, which is what you wrote in your story.

Even then, there's no ability for groups to read individual texts aside from the ones they received themselves.

Could you clarify a couple of things for me?

How does the DNC define misinformation?

I'd like to know what misinformation is.

I'd like a clear definition so I can avoid those things.

And how would the SMS carriers know when so-called misinformation is being spread over text?

Are they now reading all of our texts?

They have an algorithm that is doing that?

So what are you telling the algorithm to look for?

And how do you dispel that misinformation?

I'd like answers, Politico.

Natasha Korecki,

could you fill us in on that?

Maybe an update on your story and just help us out.

Because things are starting to seem a little 1984.

Klaus Schwab has called.

Now he's from the World Economic Forum.

He's the guy, the leader of the Great Reset.

He says it is time to immunize the Internet because there are viruses being spread on the Internet.

And we have to know who's spreading these viruses.

I think we might have a different definition of virus, Klaus.

Now what they're saying is they want everyone to have to have biometric data whenever they get online.

So there's a fingerprint on who it is.

Uh-huh.

And it's going to be, you know, it's going to be for your safety, really.

That's what it is.

We'll be able to know exactly who everybody is, exactly what they tweet, what they read, what they do.

It'll be fantastic, and it will never be abused.

By the way, in a completely unrelated story,

I told you yesterday about the new bill that came out last week to put the government in charge of your credit score.

The idea is to dramatically overhaul the U.S.

credit reporting industry.

Oh my gosh.

The Comprehensive Credit Act and the Protecting Your Credit Score Act of 2021 is a bill now under consideration.

It's coming from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, that is the Elizabeth Warren Group that she set up under Barack Obama.

And they're going to take the

responsibility away from these, quote, profit-seeking companies.

It's why these profit-seeking credit bureaus are constantly expanding their products into uses such as employment insurance, tenant screening, that ultimately harms Americans and contributes to the massive inequality in our nation.

So what they're saying is they need to take it over because there's no fairness built into these profit-seeking companies.

Do you realize what control the United States government will have

over your life if they are the one issuing your social credit?

And believe me, it will become social credit.

It's not based on your financial ability.

It's not based on merit.

It's not based on what you make, how you spend it.

It's not based on really anything traditional.

It's a dramatic overhaul.

By the way, the banks are

deep, deeply in bed now with

ESG.

That is a new credit score that all of us will have.

When I say that it's going to get harder and harder for you to get a loan,

it is going to be harder and harder for you to get a loan.

You remember, this is nothing new.

If you are found to be a dangerous extremist in any socialist nation.

By the way, you notice that the

Democratic Socialist Party,

they're not over in Sweden right now saying, hey, can you give us some of your good ideas?

They're in Venezuela right now talking to Maduro.

Can you give us some of your ideas?

I thought this is all about Sweden.

Not about that kind of socialism.

I guess you were lying to us.

What a surprise.

What's happening right now is the Great Reset, but it is not a conspiracy theory.

It is a conspiracy fact.

It is my contention that the Marxist movement, they are being, these are useful idiots.

They are being used by very powerful corporations and our government.

And they believe that the only way that we're going to be able to survive as a nation

is to get the government and big business in together so they can make the decisions on what we should consume, what we should build, how we should move, what we should wear, what our CO2 footprint is.

Right now, if I were a tree, I'd be like, these people are so stupid.

Is what I breathe in as a tree.

I just want you to know.

I want to show you that it is a long-standing

goal of the left, a long-standing goal of the left to do this.

I want you to listen to the goals of 1941, something that was written by Stuart Chase.

And the Obama administration used a lot of the words of Stuart Chase.

Remember, his

second campaign was the road we are traveling.

Do you remember that?

His second campaign used that slogan a lot, the road we are traveling.

And what did Biden use?

Biden used built back better.

Well, that's the World Economic Forum.

But if you look at the goals of the World Economic Forum and then you look at the goals of Stuart Chase in a book called The Road We Are Traveling,

they sound familiar.

Now,

in this book,

They talk about

a managerial revolution, that things just need to be managed.

We don't need all these messy elections and everything else.

We just need a managerial revolution.

And they thought originally that that was going to be fascism or communism.

But then fascism and communism got a bad name in the 1930s.

So they had to change it.

And they didn't know what to call it.

And so they called it free enterprise into X.

Now, Now, what is the goal of the Great Reset?

The goal of the Great Reset is to change capitalism, to change the free enterprise into something called stakeholder

capitalism.

Make no mistake, it's not capitalism.

It's statism.

And the state doesn't own the companies, but the state takes over the role of managing a lot of companies.

I want to go through and tell me if this hasn't been done verbatim.

And this does not read like it did five years ago.

Free enterprise into system X.

A strong centralized government.

Look at what they're doing right now with the voting rights.

Look what they're doing.

What are they doing?

They are going against the Constitution and trying to federalize all of the elections.

There's no better example today of a strong centralized government than what's going on today, every single day.

And they're trying to use this Texas Democratic walkout today

in combination with a Biden speech to try to bring that issue home.

Yeah, and they're going to do their best.

By the way, you want to talk about a strong centralized government.

On page nine of Biden's conservation plan,

there are 15 governors now who are standing up and saying, wait a minute, this is a land grab.

It's the 30 by 30 plan and the 50 by 50.

The federal government wants to own 30%

of all land in America by 2030.

What are they at now?

Do we know?

No, I don't.

It's because they own a lot of the West.

They own a lot of the West,

but that's mostly it.

The West.

They want 30% of all of the land and then 50% of all the land.

Why?

Well, listen to this.

They also want control of banking, credit, and security exchanges by the government.

You effectively have that through the Fed.

It's a public-private partnership.

Credit, they are now taking over.

This is is 1941.

Stuart Chase, the guy who coined the term the New Deal.

The underwriting of employment by the government.

Aren't we seeing that right now, kind of?

You're not working.

Oh, totally.

I mean, they've now released this program where they're sending you monthly checks for your child credit.

The underwriting of social security by the government, old age, pensions, unemployment insurance, and the like.

Listen to this one.

The underwriting of food, housing, and medical care by the government.

The United States is already experimenting with providing these essentials.

Other nations are far along the road.

Food, housing, medical care.

All in part.

Yeah.

You know, not 100%, but partially already done.

You're hearing people talk about expanding all the time.

Yes.

All the time.

To food and housing.

You can't have a basic living wage without a house that goes with it.

Look at what's happening in Oakland, where they're saying no more single housing units.

This is moving quickly.

And I want to continue down this because it is astounding how far the left has come.

In about 173 days, they are closing this deal on us.

And Americans need to stand up.

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

And we really want to thank you for listening.

We are thrilled to have Sean Larkin in.

He is the former host of Live PD,

which was canceled immediately for, I think, you'd be better to tell us, Sean, but I think because you were making cops look good.

Crazy concept.

You know, people want transparency if it involves seeing the police doing something wrong, but they don't want that transparency when it shows what society is doing wrong and what police have to do day to day to deal with it.

I mean, I remember when cops first came out and I was watching cops, it was not about the cops.

It was about how stupid and fat Americans are.

You know what I mean?

It was just like,

I just remember thinking, what an imbecile this person is.

Right, right.

Well, you know, that's the day in the life of a police officer.

Unfortunately, you do cross a lot of those type of, those type of people

on a daily basis.

But, you know, the difference between cops and live PD was

cops kind of showed like a 30-minute segment that was edited down for three pieces, basically.

And live PD showed America, hey, this is the job of law enforcement in the country.

And, you know, that's why it showed some of the rural areas.

It showed the urban areas.

So in one episode, you would see what cops were dealing with in Montana.

Well, literally on one episode, we had a bear up in a tree at a hospital there, but then we were bouncing to somewhere else in the country where guys are in a pursuit with some gang members.

And so it just got to show the public: hey, this is what this job really is.

It's not the little cut-down pieces that's clickbait on social media or the big things that lead off the news.

I have so many questions, mainly regarding how frightening was that to

do a live television show where

it could be horrible and nothing happens,

or something really bad could happen and you're there, you're live.

You had a basic delay, but that's it, right?

Yeah, it had a small delay, you know, similar to like, you know, live sports does in case some guy streaks across the field or something like that.

You know, so it did have that built in.

And that's exactly it, though.

You would have a Friday night where we thought, man, it's going to be off the chains tonight.

It's going to be crazy.

And it was three hours of just nothing going on.

You know, we had eight different departments, and so you got the bounce around of nothing going on in eight different cities.

And then you'd have a Saturday night where it's raining in half the country, and it was crazy.

Um, but again, that's what law enforcement is: you don't know it, uh, you don't know what's going to happen.

See, I think this is one of the things I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and you know, in a little teeny town of about 30,000, I think, maybe less than that when I was there.

And so, you knew the cops and everything else, and you got out of the car, you were a stop, you got out of the car, you kind of met them halfway, and you were like, Officer, what am I doing?

Well, I did that.

I'm 18 years old, and I did that when I moved to Baltimore, Maryland.

Oh my.

Little different.

Little different.

A little different.

I got out of my car and they drew guns on me and said,

get into your car.

And I'm like, oh, okay, okay.

And the cop said to me, what are you doing?

And what I didn't realize is how many cops had been shot right around that time.

Two officers were just shot in Baltimore this morning.

Correct.

Yeah.

You have no idea what you're walking into.

None.

um you know i i was a cop in tulsa for 24 and a half years and i just retired about seven or eight weeks ago um you know and i supervised the gang unit there since 2008 and during that time and we took literally thousands of guns uh you know off the streets from guys that shouldn't have them and we were very very fortunate um you know throughout my career i've been in two police shootings a couple other guys in my squad have been in shootings as well but you don't know you don't know if that car stopped that door you're going through um you know you know that domestic call you're going through.

You don't know what's going to happen.

There are some cops that believe that guns in the hands of average people is not a good.

You're not a help if you are carrying a weapon.

I don't happen to agree with that, but I'm not a cop.

Cops generally look at law-abiding citizens with guns as a help.

You know, I don't know if I'd use the word, quote-unquote, a help.

I think there's just,

speaking from my own experience in Tulsa, there's very few isolated incidents where a citizen who is armed has had to intervene or do something.

But, you know, the stories we see across the country where somebody, whether they're in a business where

a robbery's happened or some guy's out with his family and, you know, somebody tries to rob them, defending themselves, I'm all for it.

You know, I am all for it.

I wish at times citizens definitely did get more involved.

You know, now what you see, and just speaking from a law enforcement perspective, you know, everybody just wants to record everything on their cell phone rather than take any action.

Or help.

That's it.

Or help.

Yep.

Real quick, because I want to get to the book.

In Chicago, they're now going to send in federal officers, and they're going to clean it up.

They're saying what the problem is, is that those suburbs are just, you know, those gun stores are the suburbs.

They're just selling guns.

They don't care who has them.

Is that the problem up in Chicago?

Listen, I can speak for myself.

I later supervised what's called the Crime Gun Unit, and there are various units like this across the country right now where you are focused strictly on firearms that are used in violent crimes.

It's my personal opinion, again, it's not the ghost guns that are doing it, that there's conversations about going after guys making ghost guns.

Those just happen to be law-abiding citizens that love guns and they make their own, you know, they manufacture their own firearms.

Regardless of what federal government, politicians,

administration, and some police departments think, Bad guys are going to get guns, period.

You know, it's a crazy concept.

Really?

Crazy concept.

Just like drugs.

You know, they want it.

They're going to get it.

So, you know, bringing in, I mean, listen, the help will be great.

You know, we worked with our federal partners in the Tulsa area at times when it was needed.

But, you know, you got to have proactive policing.

I don't like the idea that the federal government gets involved in local policing.

I mean, when they're needed, they're needed.

But I don't like that.

I don't like the idea of federalizing our police forces.

I think that's an extraordinarily bad idea.

What I really,

what really bothers me is how

cops are viewed now as bad and uh and not good.

The, the, the, I think majority of people think that most cops are bad when it's exactly the, the opposite.

And you can't get, I mean, the, um, you,

uh, you can't get

a fair hearing.

Even if you go to court, that's fine, but you are deemed bad, wrong, racist, whatever, a killer if you even do your job and you did nothing wrong.

Yeah, I mean,

there's story after story, and one of the biggest ones was, you know, we saw up there just outside of Minneapolis a few months ago, you know, the black female that went to stab another black female.

And the officer

did, I don't know if I used the word heroic, but he did what he was supposed to do to save somebody from getting injured.

Yeah.

And, you know, we had protests.

We had, you know, pro athletes, you're next putting that person's picture out there.

And it's like, man, this guy did his job, what he was supposed to do to save somebody else from being possibly killed if not injured and yet still coming after the cops and and that's why glenn you know it's spoken about quite a bit that's why a lot of people are leaving this profession right now you know it's like man i don't want to be this guy that gets my name drugged through the media i don't want to get sued for doing my job uh you know the right way but people are still coming after me you in in your book breaking uh breaking blue real life stories of cops falsely accused you were one of them i was yeah um back in 2010, there was a federal investigation of police corruption within the Tulsa Police Department.

And there were actually a handful of these going on across the country at the time with Eric Holder in office.

And

bad guys, felons, people that were facing charges, people that were already in prison were being told by federal agents, U.S.

Attorney's Office that was in Arkansas at the time is who worked the case that, hey, if you've got information on cops, we can get your case dismissed or you can get out of prison.

And we had guys that literally were in prison on life without parole

convictions in jury trials that made allegations against cops that were released just by making an allegation that was unproven.

And my name got drugged through the mud during that thing.

It was put out in the media.

I was labeled as an unindicted co-conspirator.

I was never charged, but another officer was charged for some of the things I was alleged to have been involved with or witnessed.

And it was blown out of the water when it came time for trial for this officer he was acquitted not only acquitted of those charges but it was literally like these are flat out lies i mean it was shown to be these are lies and nobody was ever held accountable for it you know these bad guys got out of trouble and got to walk the streets and commit more crimes in tulsa and did that officer i mean how has that affected you and that officer to have your name you know like unfortunately the officer he actually he he faced 62 federal counts um went to trial on 58 fought every single one of them Ultimately was convicted on perjury from a trial he did earlier in his career and a civil rights violation from that same thing.

He actually ended up going to federal prison up in South Dakota.

He is since out outside of law enforcement now.

So wait, wait, wait.

So he was innocent of what he was, what

they charged at the beginning.

They got him on.

on something that happened earlier in his career.

So there was a case that he had testified earlier in his career about about a,

he had seen a suspect on the front porch of a house while he was doing surveillance to get a search warrant for the house.

And during the trial of that individual, the defense showed that this guy was actually down in, actually here in Dallas.

He was actually here down in Dallas and not up in Tulsa.

And the officer was adamant.

The guy that I saw on the porch was

John Doe, whatever the name was.

And he was asked like four or five times, are you sure it was John Doe?

Are you sure it couldn't have been somebody else?

And, you know, I don't want to say shame on him.

He, instead of just stating, I saw who I believe to be John Doe on the front porch would have made things different.

But he stated

who I saw was John Doe.

And so each one of those times that he said that, the federal government charged him for a count of perjury.

No joke.

So he wasn't out of town.

He just mistaken identity.

Well,

yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

The bad guy.

Now, the bad guy

was out of town, and whoever he saw, he believed to be the bad guy.

And here's what's,

he actually ran the search warrant on the house.

The target, the bad guy, was there when he ran it, and they did find drugs and everything.

It's just that in his affidavit for the search warrant, he mistook somebody else as the suspect.

So he went to federal prison over it.

Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

What can the average person do to support the police?

You know, right now, I'll be honest, just a simple, hey, we appreciate you.

You know, if you see a cop out, I don't care if they're grabbing a coffee.

They're sitting down somewhere grabbing a bite to eat.

The cop might, you know, be his tough guy persona right there and kind of just, you know, act like it's not a big deal, but it is.

I will tell you that

it strikes me as fascinating.

And there's something beyond that.

The fact that in 2001, every cop, every cop was a hero, a hero.

And 20 years later, every cop is a villain.

Yeah, and that's something that I saw the difference in my time just testifying in court.

You know, I came on the police department in 1997, and at least the first half of my career, you testified in court.

The defense attorney was doing his job, and he was going after potential procedural violations and things like that.

The latter half of my career, you take the stand, they just accuse you of being a dirty cop or you're racist and things like that.

That's, you know, it just has totally changed the whole view of police.

The name of the book is Breaking Blue: Real Life Stories of Cops Falsely Accused.

It is a fascinating read, and thank you for everything you've done.

And

any of the cops that are still doing it, even retired, thank them for us.

There's millions of Americans that are behind them.

And I know that.

Thank you very much, Glenn.

I appreciate it.

Breaking Blue, Real Life Stories of Cops Falsely Accused, available everywhere now by Sean Larkin.