Ep 88 | Megyn Kelly UNCENSORED: It's Not Time to Unify, It's Time to FIGHT | Megyn Kelly | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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Walter Cronkite once said, in seeking truth, you have to get both sides of the story.

The media is no longer interested in both sides of the story.

Sometimes they don't want either side.

Not if it contradicts with their own.

Because, worst of all, they're not even interested in really seeking the truth.

I know, I've been there.

The media machine is so odious and so corrupt that

when it encounters an actual journalist, it rejects them.

It's like the body rejecting a disease.

That's exactly what happened to our guest today.

She's got so many Walter Cronkite qualities, except for the lean towards socialism kind of part,

that she drives journalists out of their mind.

She has a spine, a soul.

She's got gumption, fortitude, tenacity.

She has a moral compass.

She has an eye for politics, an innate ability to say the right thing in the perfect way.

And she is one incredible

interviewer.

If I would not want to be on the side of a hostile Megan Kelly interview, in an era of fake news, she cares about telling the truth, and towards the end of this podcast, you'll really understand why.

She has become unwavering in this pursuit online, and the media hates it.

For years, they've tried to silence her, but now, welcome to the freedom of the internet.

And welcome to the Glenn Beck podcast, this week's guest, Megan Kelly.

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Megan,

you're known for the news.

You're known for incredible interviews.

But I think you're also known for being a great thinker.

And I want to start with something a little more philosophical.

Where are we as a nation right now?

We're just about as polarized and divided as we've been in several decades, Glenn.

I mean, I think we're definitely more tribal than we've been in 100 years.

People have actually taken hard looks at this to see.

And I think as opposed to having a moment where we've come together after a difficult time, Corona, or even the protests that we saw with George Floyd over the summer, they've only driven us farther apart.

And I don't see the bridge getting healed anytime soon.

People are retreating to their separate teams as opposed to even wanting to find a way back to one another.

But isn't that brought on by something bigger than individuals?

I mean, George Floyd, I don't know a single person that disagreed.

I mean, I agree with the idea Black Lives Matter.

I just don't believe in Black Lives Matter Inc.

Of course.

And the force behind it, the money behind it,

and the actual goals behind that particular group.

And there's others like that.

But I don't know anybody who doesn't think that

what happened was right.

And I think we were together.

And then we were intentionally taken apart.

Because it became political.

When the concept of Black Lives Matter was introduced, lowercase BLM, Americans were on board.

But then it became political.

And if you look at the stats now, more than 80% of Republicans do not support Black Lives Matter.

Okay, so it's now, and most Democrats do.

So now it's gone almost right down the middle, a partisan issue because it's been commercialized, it's been politicized to the point where the people who they're after are not racists.

They're Republicans.

They're funding Democratic candidates.

They're trying to defund police, which actually isn't a left-right issue, but they'll make you think it is.

So they blew the opportunity they had by overreaching.

I mean, I know people like Mark Cuban, who was on my podcast, tried to tell you it's just about a movement, you know, to improve race relations.

Well, that's pie in the sky stuff.

That's not actually true.

If you look at what, for example, the Seattle Black Lives Matter movement put out, like, what are we all about?

We are about defunding the police, of course, opening up all prisons, dismantling the justice system,

attacking the education system.

They don't want a male-female nuclear family.

I mean, it's like,

wow, you've got a lot of work ahead of you, but I think I'm going to withhold my donation until I, because I kind of want the criminals to stay in the prisons.

Call me, I'm one of those suburban moms, maybe.

I'm actually living in New York City, but still, I want the prisoners to stay in prison.

Right.

Right.

Weird like that.

Right.

I, you know, I said in 2004

when the Democrats put Michael Moore into the presidential box and I think Jimmy Carter was sitting next to him and I said, Democrats, you don't know what you're dealing with here.

You're dealing with a movement that is not mainstream.

Now this is Michael Moore, but back then, not mainstream.

You think you're going to use him and others like him as fuel.

But they are going to eat you in the end.

And I think that's what we're seeing now.

That, I mean,

the Democrats have been playing footsie with these very dangerous groups,

I guess, thinking that it politically will help them.

But now they've got to try to put this back into a bottle.

And I don't think they're going to be able to do it.

Well, that'll be the interesting thing, Glenn, because what's happened, Candace Owens has been pointing this out, and this is true as a member of the media.

I've seen it too.

Every four years, right before election time, they pick a case of a black black male being unfairly attacked or attacked for some reason by a police officer, and they try to gin up racial sentiments around it, you know, as opposed to, you know, not highlighting the case of Tony Timba, the white guy who had cops on his neck for 16 minutes being totally brutal and they didn't care at all about him.

I'm not saying that's good.

I'm just saying it wasn't a racial issue with Tony.

And, you know, a lot of people would argue, where's the proof that it was a racial issue with George Floyd, right?

Like it's a presumption because the cop was white and george was black but they presume that a lot and they really gin it up in an election year so there's a real question about whether we're being manipulated and honestly the media has a huge role in it the media takes a tape and they roll it over and over and over and over again and i think the average america has no idea that in 2019 it the number of black men who were unarmed, who were killed by police, if you give the Washington post its revised number because it revised them upward when they realized people were going to look at them is about 15 depending on which cases but it's about 15 that's being charitable to them 15 the cops make 11 million arrests a year 11 million okay and the number of white men who are killed who are who don't have a weapon and keep in mind they consider you unarmed if you have a weapon in your glove box and you're driving you're unarmed according to these stats um is much higher.

But they say, okay, well, black people only comprise, you know, 13 to 14% of the the population, and there's it's a higher percentage than that.

But you have to look at the crime rate.

You have to look at the crime rate of black men, who are usually the ones in this situation.

You look at that, you're a racist.

So this is how it goes, right?

Downward spiral from there.

Facts are still knowable, and the media has an obligation to present them with context, right?

Instead of just putting a video on loop to mislead people into thinking, like LeBron James said, that black men are getting hunted in the streets by police, which is a lie.

Right.

So is the, I mean, I used to be much more charitable towards the media than I am now.

I mean, I saw the same games played at CNN that I saw played at Fox.

And it's, if you like television news, it's great.

It's like sausage.

You don't ever want to see it made because I've seen it from the start to finish and it rarely resembles what it started out as.

And I used to be more charitable.

Well, people, you know, everybody has their own kind of viewpoint and they're kind of, you know, they're trying, struggling.

Then I started realizing they're not interested.

I mean, I don't know how many, how many interviews I have done where the person looking at me who's interviewing me

has absolutely no interest into what I'm going to say.

They have their list of questions.

They're going there.

They've already made their mind up and they just go.

Now I wonder what they're doing.

Yeah, they're not trying to learn.

Yeah, they're not there.

Yeah, they're not trying to learn.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, and even now, not only are they not trying to learn, they're afraid to ask follow-up questions if they're on a dicey subject.

I mean, I remember sitting this summer, I was doing my makeup and I had the TV on and Allison Camerata of CNN, who used to be a Fox, was interviewing some woman who was in favor of defunding the police.

And Allison said, well, you know, I have young kids and what's going to happen?

Who am I going to call if in the middle of the night somebody breaks in my home?

And the response was, that's your privilege talking.

Well, you know, whether it is or it isn't, my privilege wants an answer.

Like Allison asked no follow-up to that.

Why?

Because she's scared.

She's scared if she asks any follow-up.

She's like, holy shit, maybe it is my white privilege talking.

Oh my God, I've got to check my privilege.

I don't know.

Like, I mean, if I had been there, I would have been like, okay, sure.

My privilege wants an answer right now.

What is it supposed to do?

Who's my privilege supposed to call?

Because I still got the three kids in the back, whether you shame me or you don't.

But nobody will do that because they don't want to be called a racist.

They don't want to be called an elitist.

Megan, I don't buy that.

I'm sorry.

I don't buy that.

I've been called a racist

for 15 years.

I don't feel like there's a racist bone in my body.

Maybe there is.

I mean,

we all have our own,

you know, problems.

But I really try to be open-minded.

I will not tolerate this garbage.

It doesn't stop me.

It doesn't stop you.

So what is the deal with, what, 95% of the journalists that are, they're just going along with what's happened over the last five years?

Well, I think it's a couple of things.

I think, number one, they believe in that same ideology.

They're on board.

A lot of them are not center left.

They're left.

Left.

And it makes them feel better to demonize others, to try to say, I am better.

I am the anti-racist.

I am the anti-sexist.

And just by demonizing people who don't think like I do, I feel better.

So they like to have people like that on who affirm their worldview and make them feel better than.

But I also think for those who aren't fully bought in, they're afraid.

They're afraid

they're going to get fired.

They're going to say the wrong thing.

You can get fired now for liking a President Trump tweet.

I mean, you can, you know, you can say something you think is totally innocuous and then only to find out the internet has turned on you.

And if you don't have a supportive supportive boss, you're done.

And most people don't have financial independence, so they really have to worry about it.

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What role did we play in this division, do you think?

I hate to

put you in the collective we here, but people like me.

I mean, when I was at Fox, I spoke my mind.

I said the things that,

I said at Fox, I think President Obama is racist.

No, wait, that's not quite right.

He just seems to have some sort of deep-seated hatred for the white culture.

Well, what I was feeling, and I just realized this in the last year, what I was feeling that I didn't understand was critical race theory.

So

did we play a role in this or were we exposing the truth?

I don't see it quite like that.

I don't, I mean, I'm proud of the work I did at Fox News.

And I also think, in general, the Fox News mission is a good one, you know, to give voice to the voiceless, which is half the country, to remind people that they are not alone, that 71 million people in this country feel as they do.

74 million voted for Biden, 71 million voted for Trump.

You're not alone no matter what the media tells you or Hollywood tells you or big tech or corporate America.

But listen, listen, I'm not going to say that everyone's perfect.

You go on TV, and the nature of cable is a little freewheeling.

Sometimes you say things that aren't perfectly well phrased.

And the beauty is you can go on and clarify or apologize if you feel you need to.

And that's all appropriate.

What's not appropriate is trying to ruin someone for having one of those moments.

That's what the other side does.

The quote left, capital left, the established media that wants to make themselves feel better as though they've never made and never will make a mistake.

And I think the average people, you know, sitting out there watching this are disgusted by them.

But it's become so ubiquitous, they sit at home thinking, am I crazy?

Am I, maybe I am the one, maybe every thought I have is awful.

Like

that's what they're telling me.

Correct.

You know, that's why the Fox News mission is a valid one, if very imperfectly executed.

Our mission right now in this digital world is also the same.

Let Let me just throw in on the Fox News mission.

I've always believed that, and I know that was

the understanding when they were built.

I don't think that's the understanding.

You can't have Neil Cavuto last night or a couple of nights ago say,

let's stop taking the White House press person because that's dangerous stuff.

We don't want to listen to that.

Who, if I went and said, okay, well, I do want to listen to that.

I want to judge for myself.

I don't even know where I would go to get it, but I know that if I got it and reposted it, I'd be demonetized or I'd be throttled by one of the social medias.

What happened to this idea that

there is no church?

You know, there is no

Catholic church saying, no, the world is flat.

Where's the other side?

We can't express it now.

Well, I agree with that.

I mean, I tweeted out about this.

I thought that was wrong.

And I thought it was wrong when the network news anchors interrupted Trump.

You want to fact-check the president?

Great.

That's what a journalist should do.

I have no problem with that.

You wait until he's offered whatever statement it is he has to offer.

Correct.

You're not the papa.

You're not the daddy of the viewer, right?

You're the news anchor.

You don't get to interfere in that relationship between the president and the people.

And if we want to open that door, Glenn, where's that going to end?

You know, I tweeted out, can you imagine if we had done this when we knew we knew it was untrue that if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.

Do you have any idea how many times I could have

interrupted Barack Obama?

I could have pulled him off the air so many times to say, that's not true.

And guess what?

That's really dangerous.

Right.

Because Kaylee McEnany, worst case scenario, is undermining your faith in the electoral process.

Barack Obama is going to take away your health plan and your doctor and actually put put lives at risk with that lie, which at the time we knew it was untrue.

We just didn't know if he knew it was untrue.

So I never called it a lie.

And then the reporting came out.

He knew it was untrue.

And that's what leads me to say it was a lie.

And he knew it was a lie when he did it.

And we let him tell it.

And then we fact-checked him.

I don't know who they think they are.

Cutting off the president, the press secretary.

And I think that's got to stop.

And I think you know, if Roger Ails had been there, he would have had a talk with Neil Kavo.

Oh, he would have had a talk.

Absolutely.

The scary thing here is, and I don't know, I was just talking to Dave Rubin about this last week.

And I said, Dave,

I find myself in this really weird position to where

I take people, I mean, I said on WABC in 1999, there'll be blood, buildings, and bodies in the streets of Manhattan in the next 10 years, and Osama bin Laden's name will be all over it.

Because I take people at their word.

When they say they're going to do something that's crazy, they usually do it if they have the opportunity.

So when I look at the Truth and Reconciliation Project, and I look at this movement where they're saying that we have to shame these people out of polite society, make sure they never work again.

I look at that and I am struck by something I never understood in history until now.

What were the German Jews thinking in 1930 to 1934?

I mean, they told you what was coming, and I think they may have been thinking something similar that we are.

They don't really mean that.

That's never going to happen here.

People are never going to do those things to we're different.

Are we different?

Well, we're different than Nazi Germany.

Yeah, I know, I know, but we're not different as people when you just

keep letting bad

ideas and people just go unchecked.

Don't you?

You can be an optimist.

and be realistic at the same time.

You can be somebody who hopes that somehow people will appeal to their own better angels and act well, but be realistic about the evidence in front of your face.

And I completely agree with you on this accountability project being started by former Obama Biden guys.

How they're going to come and get not just the people who worked in the Trump administration, which is bad enough, okay?

Not just them.

Like, sure, let's go get, let's make sure Rick Grinnell, the first openly gay guy to ever work at the cabinet level in the United States, let's make sure he never works again.

Sure, let's get behind that.

That makes a lot of sense.

Okay, so let's put the cabinet officials and the Trump administration officials to the side, absurd as that is.

They're saying they're going to go after any Trump enabler, enabler.

Okay, so that means voters.

That means anybody who's sending out pro-Trump tweets.

And not only are they going to try to stop you from getting a job by blackballing you or threatening your employer, they're talking about how if you want to write a book, good luck because we're going to go to the publisher and we're going to say, we will blackball that book and we will blackball and boycott every single book in your entire library.

But go ahead, sign a contract with them.

It's insane.

And so you have to be realistic about what they're saying they're going to do and trust them.

Because, you know, what they did with this accountability project, Glenn, is they kind of lifted the dress up.

You know, like they kind of, they showed it.

They showed it all.

You know, they said the thing out loud that they normally don't say.

In here in New York City, where I live, that voted, I think it was 87% Democrat in the presidential election,

that you know better than to start talking about something good Trump did in any society here at a cocktail party, picking up your kid from school, anywhere, not just because

someone's going to recoil in horror, but it could be held against your kid or you in some way.

Can you imagine having said it openly and now having people like this feel emboldened because their leader has ascended to the top and they're getting their list together and they've got the support of the media.

It's not just these activists.

The media, number one, would support it anyway.

You saw the Jake Tapper tweet.

Oh, yeah.

And number two is is openly saying that.

Jennifer Rubin, that lunatic at the Washington Post, the Washington Post, democracy dies in darkness.

Oh, but the light has come out, Glenn.

She actually said we have a list.

And anyone pushing bogus claims of voter fraud, okay, so if you're looking into that right now, is going on the list and it will no longer...

be hired at a corporate board level, be able to publish a book, or be accepted into polite society.

Okay, so if it's Jennifer Rubin's polite society, we're good.

None of us wants to be there.

You have people in the Washington Post, you have people in the New York Times, you have Robert Reich saying it.

You have a website now run by some pretty big names that are now gathering names.

They've taken the names down, but just a couple of days ago, they were all posted there, but they realized they overstepped by posting the names.

But they are serious.

How is that different than a small little group of people,

you know, in a foreign country in the 30s saying, we're going to get these people, these people, these communists have to go.

The only difference is power.

It's escalating because

six months ago, even three months ago, especially three months ago over the summer.

Crazy.

I don't know about you, but I had so many people coming up to me saying,

this is how I feel.

They don't want to say it out loud anymore.

People are already getting afraid to say how they really feel because you've been called a racist.

I've been called a racist.

I mean, we're kind of used to it now.

If you're at all affiliated with the right wing, you've been called a racist.

After time, it just doesn't have the same effect on you.

But think of if you're a civilian, it still has a massive effect on you and you'll do anything to avoid it.

And you certainly don't feel comfortable saying, I don't support Black Lives Matter.

I don't believe in their crazy mission, which is to defund police, police, which, by the way, will hurt black people more than anybody else.

They don't want to say it.

So we started off with the

underground conversations.

And even out in Hollywood, for a while they had Friends of Abe, right?

The underground Hollywood folks who they can never say that they're Republican, never.

So they had to meet underground and sort of see that they weren't alone.

And now it's escalating to above ground.

Now Joe Biden's elected,

so it appears, and they're saying it out loud.

They're proud of it.

They're openly declaring what they're going to do to the other 70 million.

And so far, other than a few people saying, hey, what?

People are pretty quiet about it.

They're going about their day.

They may not realize that they're coming for you.

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Tell me what this election really says to you.

Assuming Joe Biden is our next president, it was a close election.

And

Joe Biden is,

I do not mean this in a mean way.

I remember my grandfather when we had to take his keys away from him.

And that's where Joe Biden is in his life.

And I don't say that with any malice in my heart.

I really don't.

I think it's sad to watch a man who has been great.

I don't agree with any of his policies, but he has been a leader for a very long time.

And to watch him fade like this and to be pushed into

this.

As we're looking at

half the country voted for a guy who's slipping and a guy they think is going to be moderate, even though everyone around him

is radical.

And they voted against, I don't know if they voted for him or just against the chaos.

I think there was a lot of people that just said, I can't take the bickering.

And this guy is just going to, he sees not red states and blue states.

He sees the United States.

And that's where we're going.

Is there going to be a wake-up call if he's not that guy?

Yes.

Because I think the way I interpreted the vote was they did reject wokeism.

That's why the Democrats lost 10 or 11 seats in the House in the House.

That's why it doesn't look like they have control of the Senate.

You know, we have the two runoffs in Georgia, but the Republicans have never lost a runoff in Georgia ever.

So we got that going.

That's why they lost at the state level.

I do think the rejection of Trump in those 74 million votes was about Trump's personal behavior and not about his pushback against these things, which they don't like.

And I think that's why the people who really did Trump in were college-educated

suburbanites, women in particular, but also men.

If you went to college and you live in the suburbs, you didn't vote Trump.

And what is that about?

That's about

chaos at the White House, pepper spraying people who are protesting outside of the White House and then denying you did it so you can have a photo album with the Bible.

The many lies that he would tell for no reason, like the crowd sizes, which we all knew wasn't true, like just erratic behavior that makes, I think, a lot of women I know say,

I'm not sure.

I'm not sure, and I don't really want my kids singing.

And then maybe we'll just go with the old guy who says he'll just do the one term, and he's always been moderate.

He's been 50 years to prove that.

So I'm just going to move my chips over here just for this one time, and then we'll see.

And I'll keep him boxed in because I'm going to vote Republican downtown.

I think that a lot of people that I know felt that way up until until really Kavanaugh.

Then things started to change.

I know a lot of people, even to this day, even me, I don't like defending Trump's behavior.

I don't.

There's just, I can't defend it.

Yeah, I was going to say, you should.

You don't have to.

Right.

But however, there has come to me in the last year or so

a thought that really only he he's a ticking time bomb and he just blows things up up whenever he's in the room and i was so concerned in 2016 when people said i just want to burn this whole thing down and i was like no no no no no you don't no you don't it's taken us 240 plus years to build this let's not burn it down um

but in a way i think that's what he did he exposed the media he exposed the um deep state, if you will, that there's something going on with our intelligence community, State Department, our Justice Department.

There's something going on.

We never got to the bottom of it, but I think because he was such a ticking time bomb, they reacted so viscerally that they exposed themselves.

Do you agree with that or not?

No, I do.

I mean, I think that's some of the good that Trump did.

Right.

You know, I think that's why when he did his crazy stuff in the primary back in 16 or 15 leading into 16, on the stuff he said about John McCain, the going after a gold star family, nine-month campaign against me for one debate question, all his weird, these weird choices he made, people loved it.

Why?

Because they wanted to see a gold star family attacked?

Absolutely not.

Because they didn't think John McCain was a war hero?

Absolutely not.

It was, this guy doesn't give a fig.

Right.

He will be the wrecking ball.

Look at him.

He doesn't care what anybody thinks of him.

I mean, that's the weirdness of Trump.

He does really care, but he doesn't behave like he cares.

And they were right.

That's why when he got to Washington, he broke every conventional norm and really did shake up a lot of industries and showed us the truth.

And the media is the best example of that because they were always anti-Republican and they always had an agenda.

But man, did he pull the veil off.

And now I think most clear seeing people can list five examples off the top of their head of journalists they thought were objective who are actually left-wing activists.

But I think that, you know, the 57% of suburban college-educated people who are like, no, some of them are yes, liberal, but the ones who are Republican were like, he's good.

Got our three Supreme Court justices, knocked down a bunch of things that needed knocking.

Yeah, yeah.

But like, we're going to leave the rest of the things standing.

So do you don't think there will be any pursuit of the Hunter Biden stuff?

That's over, do you think?

I think so.

I think so.

I actually, I would like to see it pursued.

He's closer to power now than he ever has been.

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, Hunter,

he does not, I've said this about Trump.

It's true of Hunter, too, does not have an adult relationship with the truth or ethics or morality or straight financial dealings.

And that's a problem.

Joe Biden better keep him nowhere near

the White House.

And we better be focused on him like a laser, otherwise he's going to get another burisma deal going.

I actually feel bad in some ways, very little,

for Hunter, because I think he is,

what's that HBO show

with the family that's clearly the Murdoch?

Oh, succession.

Yeah, succession is clearly the Murdoch.

That's very much, I mean, you can look at the Biden family, and it seems kind of like that, that he's this son who seems to be put through the ringer by a dad, at least according to the emails between Hunter and the family.

This is the way he looks at it, that he's kind of carrying the weight and dad, you know, takes 50% of it, but I'm keeping this family going.

Any comment on that?

So I don't see it like that.

Succession is amazing, by the way.

I can't wait till it comes back.

It's such a good show.

It is.

The family there is beyond repair.

It's so damaged and so messed up.

Look, I interviewed Joe Biden and Jill Biden when Joe released his book.

And I guess it was fall of 18, I want to say.

And I read his book cover to cover.

And you read the book and you close the book and you think, this is a good man.

This is a good man who's been through a lot in his life.

And I think his son, Bo, was a good man and was on his, was on the rise as a force in politics.

I think Hunter has a drug problem.

I think

he has a crack cocaine problem.

And I don't know about you, but I've had people in my family who have had addiction problems.

And it is like having a nuclear bomb go off in your family.

I mean, the people who you know and love and trust and know have good hearts will lie and cheat and steal and ruin and wreck everything.

And all you can do is feel totally powerless next to them.

So I, the way I see it, because he raised a good son with model behavior and he raised another son who's had real struggles and very open drug problems.

I don't see that as Joe Biden

is a succession type dad.

I see that as he had the misfortune of drugs coming into his family, but the problem has not yet been resolved.

And Hunter Biden is now really close to a really important power circle.

So you're not and we do need to be assured he's not going to continue this behavior.

And you're not, you're not, you don't see any validity in the China deals and the backroom deals.

Oh, no, I don't know.

I'm not ruling that out.

Okay.

To the contrary.

I think there's more than enough reason to keep looking.

We've had independent witnesses come forward to validate the emails and say this was the deal.

I just think that if you read,

first of all, there are lovely emails from Joe Biden to Hunter that I could relate to as a family member of somebody who's an addict, just expressing love and trying to remind the person they come from a place of love and they have people who will support them.

What you see in the emails is Hunter is bitter and feels put upon.

And I've got to go out there because my dad's apologetic.

I've got to earn all the money.

And honestly, like, to me, I'm like,

that's an addict talking.

Like that, I'm not attributing it all to that.

I'm just saying

having read the book, having interviewed Joe Biden, having learned a fair amount about their family,

I think he's a good dad who's struggling with a kid who's in a lot of trouble.

And that doesn't excuse what Hunter Biden did, though.

And we as the media need to look into it, A, to find out whether Joe Biden himself did anything untoward in these business deals.

And B, to make sure we know what we're getting one step away from the Oval Office.

I only talked to Roger Ailes a couple of times after I left Fox.

One of them was when you were being dragged through the mud, and I called Roger because I watched that and I thought, where's the Roger I know that doesn't allow anyone to beat up on his hosts?

And I called him and I said, Roger,

what's happening?

Why aren't you circling the wagons around Megan here getting beat up because of that question?

His answer was,

he's you know trump is trump and he's

i was shocked uh by that behavior from fox because there was no protection of you what was your last what was your last week or so what did it feel like being

well completely seemingly completely alone at that time

yeah this is when trump was coming after me um it was extremely stressful it was a it was not a good time for for me professionally and as a result personally, because the security threats got big.

It wasn't just like the normal death threats you get as a public speaker.

So sadly, that is a thing that I got used to.

It was like criminal profiles coming in from serious security agents letting me know I'm security and people showing up at my house in the middle of the night, in the middle of the day.

A lot of examples of confronting me on the street with my kids.

I had to go to Disney World with armed guards.

So it was just

period when it comes to yeah security you i remember you when you left fox you were surrounded by like six security guards it was crazy so it's sometimes the life of a public figure and certainly trump had made me way more of a public yeah then um and and in a negative way like he was attacking me it was interesting

go ahead go ahead

at first i understood rogers the pickle he was in because he was trying to keep what was then the bright bar wing of the fox News viewership and keep more national review wing of the viewership, right?

Sort of the more intellectual Republican wing and then like, you know, working class, let's fight it out

in the Breitbart.

And he didn't want to do anything that was going to alienate the Breitbart wing because that was Trump's core.

And even more than Trump, Steve Bannon, who I have absolutely nothing but bad things to say about.

Thank you.

There's not a lot of people.

I have more than bad things to say about him

yeah he's not one of them no he's a genuinely bad person yeah genuinely bad yeah and will soon be in federal prison from the way things look so great um anyway so he was really ginning it up i mean he was the one who get the campaigns going and like the worst things were being posted about me that were threatening and awful and genuinely misogynistic blah blah blah So at first I understood Roger, and then it went on and on and on, and he wouldn't say anything, and Trump kept ramping it up.

Yep.

And I'll tell you this.

I think Roger was worried about the viewership and how that would affect him.

I think we later found out that Roger had his own vulnerabilities that he might have been worried somebody knew about like Trump.

I don't know.

I think I want to say I want to say one other thing about it.

Yes, you do.

Yes, you do.

Because let me tell you, after I asked Trump that debate question, Roger didn't speak to me for months, for a month, and he didn't speak to Brett and he didn't speak to Chris Wallace.

He was mad.

And I was the closest to him of that trio.

And finally, he called me in there, tried to hold it in, didn't want to let it out.

And then finally, he could control himself no longer.

And he went off on me about the question.

And he kept saying to me, Glenn, this is just for perspective for the audience, about a year before Ailes would go down thanks to the sexual harassment scandal against Ted.

And he kept saying to me, how could you, you never know what he could have come back at you with.

You know, he could have turned the tables on you and said, what have you done?

And I remember sitting there like, that would have been fine.

Okay.

Yeah.

But now, and even when I was sitting there with Ailes, I knew he had harassed me, but I wasn't thinking, oh, he's worried about himself because he must be a serial harasser.

It didn't even come to my mind because I put that in the rearview mirror years ago.

I always just attribute it to he wanted to have an affair with me.

It wasn't that he was a serial harasser.

So anyway, I know he was mad about the question.

What I wanted wanted to say is a third point

the the best statements that came out of fox during that time that really did stand up for me were from irina briganti oh my gosh who

i know she's a complicated person and i mean she's come after me and i've

gone after her

we've had serious problems the two of us but i will say

she's the only one who really had my back and Now having spent a couple of years at NBC,

let me just say I would have have loved to have had a longer relationship with Irena Briganti than I wound up having.

She knows how to fight.

Yeah, I will tell you that that is the one thing about her is she's the press, one of the press people at Fox.

And

that's the one thing that Fox did well.

And that's why I questioned, where are you, Roger, on Megan, because they know how to fight.

And they will fight internally their own people sometimes.

If they turn on you, it is ugly.

Can I tell you something?

The best statement she put out, like the fiercest statement Fox put out, Roger was in the hospital.

He was having his back operated on, and it came from her directly.

And she did get her hands slapped after it was done.

I bet she did.

That sort of explains some of the conflicting messaging.

So, I've heard you talk about NBC, and I don't want to get into all of this, but you said that you went over there, they offered you a buttload of money, you were, you know, wine and dine, and you just wanted to be a mom and have a normal life which you're clearly not having when you when you do what we do in in news especially at night and prime time

um

and i i looked at that when you did that i was like

wow i hope that works but i

i don't know how that's gonna work should have called me i did i i wrote you several times um

uh and uh uh and i i i was encouraging to you, I think, if I'm not mistaken, while you were doing it.

You've always been a sweetheart.

Yeah, when you were doing the show.

But

when did you know?

When did you go, oh, crap, this is a huge mistake?

Hmm.

That is a good question.

I guess, you know, it was a boiled frog situation where it took a couple, it took a couple of, you know, minutes in the increasingly hot water for me to figure out, not only is it not working, but it's just, it's awful.

You know, my life is awful and I'm, no one sees me clearly here.

You know, no one, no one understands who I am and there's not a willingness to amongst my critics.

So I did the Alex Jones interview and that really threw me because everyone and their mother had interviewed Alex Jones, mainstream journalist in the New York Times.

The New Yorker, I think it was, and Piers Morgan on CNN, moments like very soon after he had said these crazy things about Sandy Hook being a hoax, no one cared.

Everybody thought it was pushback.

And so then, but then I did it and it was like,

you know, it was like I was devil woman.

And I didn't understand.

It was like six of the Newtown families did object to that interview.

But 19 of the families were either very pro my doing it because they wanted to see him held to account finally or were neutral.

Anyway, so that was a, that was a tough one.

And then,

you know, Jane Fonda was an ass.

That was kind of funny.

I enjoyed that one.

I watched that episode, that was crazy.

Oh,

I understand her and do it 10 times over.

Yeah, um,

then there was weird, like Deborah Messing came after me.

I'm like, who is this person?

I also like being on the opposite side of her, but it was just sort of one after the other.

You could see these far-left people.

What do those two people have in common?

They're far-lefties.

And I think the time I was really like, this is out of control was I did a segment about

there was a woman who had fat shamed other women who hadn't lost their baby weight soon enough.

And she just got, she caught holy hell on the internet as she should have.

Then she, a year went by, she gained some weight.

She felt sorry.

And she did a mea culpa.

She came on my show.

I'm like, you know, that was kind of BS.

She's like, you're right.

And she really started to beat herself up.

So I gave her a little, you know, a lifeline.

And I was like, you know what?

That kind of shaming, that kind of talk, it does work for some women.

I said, you know, I used to be one of them.

When I was in law school, I lived with my mom and my stepdad.

And whenever I was going for more food at 11 o'clock at night, night, I used to ask my stepfather to call me a name like a fat ass on the way to the kitchen.

Wow.

And it worked.

I mean, you, Megan McCain, the view, Wendy, all of them are like,

you hate fat people and you want them shamed.

I'm like, bullshit.

That is what I did for myself when I was 19 or 20.

It's none of your damn business how I stay thin.

I'm a perfectly healthy person.

And I was like, this is nuts, right?

Like, there is nothing I can say that won't get filtered through the least positive and generous.

So,

anyway, it just sort of seemed like a place that was totally unenjoyable.

Like, what I was doing was making me miserable.

And,

you know, I said to, I think it was Ben Shapiro, you know, sometimes when you're dying death by a thousand cuts, the machete is mercy.

Yeah.

Now, you don't need to elaborate on this, but I'd just like to know the

contract, they paid a lot of money, and I, for one, celebrated.

Was it a very good day when you

when they slid that contract over and you were like,

you know,

this might have been worth the

year and a half?

Well,

as you might imagine, there are certain things I'm not permitted to discuss.

Yeah.

But I will say this, as you know, I practiced law for 10 years, and I have an amazing lawyer named Brian Friedman, who I highly recommend.

And I also discourage anyone from effing with me because I will sick him on you and it will be awful.

And

there are very good reasons I feel that way about him, and that's all I'm going to say.

Okay.

Let me just go back to

the regular news here.

The Supreme Court.

A,

I don't understand how anyone had a problem with Amy Coney Barrett unless you want the Constitution to be a living document that will say whatever you want to legislate from the bench.

But she seems rock solid to me.

Do you get the same impression?

Yes, I'm very pro Amy Coney Barrett.

Very pro.

And a lot of my liberal friends who are lawyers who I went to law school with have sort of said to me, how should we feel about her?

And I said, you should feel feel good yes she's going to be like scalia but she's not going to be out of control she's not going to be somebody who's going to be making up new law right at most she's going to i don't see that in the constitution she's going to kick it back down to legislators right who are supposed to public new laws that's not threatening that's not threatening um and by the way you know my overall view of it is he gets the pick he wants sorry

the way it has worked since time immemorial so that this

to pick his person who he likes and if it's a republican it's going to be more of a conservative ideology and vice versa on the other side.

When you see

Joe Biden talk about, oh, there's lots of ideas.

We can

lifetime appointment, but not necessarily the Supreme Court.

We can move people around.

They're talking about packing the courts, all kinds of new ideas to try to

correct what they call packing the lower court.

Because

Obama didn't finish the job in appointing judges, didn't get them through.

How is America going to respond to that?

And do you think they'd actually do that?

I don't.

I don't think he has the will or the desire or the guts because

it would make the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing look like a day at the park.

Can you imagine how hard the Republicans would fight against that?

And if they win control of the Senate, they don't have to worry about it.

I do not think he'll do it.

I think he's governed as a moderate, and he used to head up the Senate Judiciary Committee.

And I think he understands the High Court and knows that would be eliminating the Supreme Court.

We would have no more Supreme Court as an effective measure because it would have zero credibility.

It would just become a political institution.

No one would listen to the rulings.

It would be the unspooling of the top of the third branch of government.

So I don't think Joe Biden's going to do that.

And I think this is really, this is really an idea that was dreamt up and thought of by Jeffrey Toobin, who should have been focused more on how his Zoom works instead of crazy things we could do to the high high court.

Is there,

I'm trying to figure out, Megan, you know, when I worked at Fox, we started the 9-12 project and I did that thing in Washington, D.C.

And it was about letting people know they're not alone and there is hope.

And it's not through the political system.

It's just not.

It's if we just recognize

the truth of who we are, who we've always tried to be, and know our Constitution doesn't say to form a perfect nation, it says to form a more perfect nation.

And so, we should always be striving for that, knowing that we'll never get there and we're never perfect, we never was, we never were, and we probably never will be.

But as long as we keep moving forward, I'm trying to find a way to where we put this thing back together.

And

there are

really angry people on both sides.

And

if you push and push and push and call somebody horrible names for too long,

they just don't know what else to do, especially if they're being silenced and they have no one speaking for them.

How do we...

How do we put this back together,

especially if you do start to see things

being pushed through that are unconstitutional and they just keep moving forward?

How do we respond?

I've been thinking about that all week because

Joe Biden came out and tweeted this thing out, which I responded to, and then the left lost its mind.

They get so upset because they're still wondering if I'm on their side.

I'm not.

And if you're on the right and you're wondering if I'm on your side, I'm not.

I'm on the side of truth.

Right.

And reason.

But the left can, like, the right is like, okay.

And the left is like, oh,

how could you?

You're supposed to hate Trump.

He attacked you.

You're betraying us.

Anyway, so I gave Joe Biden and Biden a hard time for this, but it's coming out of him and top Democrats.

Unity,

unity,

healing.

Like, in fact, what Joe Biden tweeted was: united, strengthened, healed.

Oh, just, that's all it takes.

He just had to win.

He didn't even have to get inaugurated yet.

Just like, hey, we're healed.

Oh,

well, no, not true.

And even if it was aspirational, though grammatically grammatically incorrect,

it's not going to happen.

And

I don't think it's a bad thing.

I liked the 9-12 project, and I actually don't think you get nearly enough credit for thinking the way you do, Glenn.

You're always looking for solutions, always solution-oriented.

And honestly, I've known you a long time.

I've listened to a lot of what you've said, the vast majority of which has been healing and kind and loving and well-intended.

You've stepped off the rails a couple of times, as every public figure has.

The only difference is when you're of Fox Fox News or of the right or, you know, anything not left, people are watching and ready to demonize you.

So I understand the unity thought,

but I really think we should be focused on something else right now, and that is liberty.

That's the goal right now.

And maybe if we can work on liberty, we can get back to unity.

But what's happening is an erosion of liberty in the country.

Back to our earlier discussion.

You used to be able to say what you wanted to say in this country.

Think what you wanted to think in this country, be who you wanted to be in this country, and not have to worry about losing your job, your friend circle, your ability to engage in polite society, Jennifer Rubin.

And now it's changing.

So now I think, and I would have said this prior to the presidential election, it's time to fight.

Now is not the time to unite.

What's being shoved down our throats is wrong.

And submission.

to this is not okay.

You want your kid to grow up in this nonsense?

He can't say anything without getting fired.

He has to sit in order to have a corporate job or a job in the government and be told he's a racist because he was born with white skin through no fault of his own.

That's the price for being an upstanding member of the society?

No, no, I refuse.

And as Douglas Murray says, I think it's time that we start standing up and saying, I refuse to let you do this to our society.

I refuse to let you re-racialize us, divide us, and take steps back by 50 years.

It's not time to unify.

It's time to fight.

One last thing.

We've got about five minutes left.

And I just, I

saw you say that Dennis Prager made you cry, and that's why you wanted to do a podcast.

How did Dennis Prager and Adam Corolla make you cry?

No one's ever said that to those two guys.

So I saw, it was not long after I left NBC and I was still reeling.

You know, now I'm fine.

And, you know, I sort of have a good perspective on that whole ordeal.

But make no mistake, when it happened,

there were very rough nights and a lot of tears shed.

Not at the loss of NBC, but just at the public humiliation.

And, you know, everybody's calling you a racist in the paper and your kids got to see this.

And it's upsetting.

You know, it's not true.

You know it's unfair, but like, it doesn't do you any good to say that.

I know.

The people who love you, they didn't believe it anyway.

And the people who want to believe it want to believe it.

So you're in an impossible situation.

But so I was still in that phase.

And Mark Joseph, who directed this movie, No Safe Spaces and produced it, invited me out.

I was in LA and he said, why don't you come by and I'll give you a screening of it.

So I went with some other random people I didn't know and sat there by myself, like in my little area.

And there was a scene in there about Evergreen College.

up in the Pacific Northwest in Washington State.

And this is where Brett Weinstein became a household name for a lot of folks, where he was a professor who stood up to say, I don't think it's fair because what happened was the black students had been having a sick out every year to remind white people what life would be like without black people.

Voluntary.

Then one year they said,

now we want to change it.

Now we want you white people to stay home.

And Brett Weinstein, a liberal professor at this college, as they all are,

said,

I think that's different.

It's different when one race is saying to everyone of the other race, don't come to support me and my cause.

That's it.

That's really all Brett Weinstein said.

Like, I don't, I'm not sure.

That's the same and is a good idea.

They treated him like he showed up to class wearing a Klan hat.

Oh, yeah.

The police on campus said, it's too dangerous.

We won't protect you.

The students were spitting mad.

at him, calling him a racist and everything they could under the sun.

But the moment that got me, Glenn, I mean, it was already building up.

I'm watching the whole thing like, oh my God, oh my God, where are we?

Where are we?

Why are we doing this to one another?

Was there was a black student, a young girl,

18, who

liked him.

She was one of his students and she wanted to cross the quad, I guess, to talk to him, just to ask him, why did you write that letter?

And

the mob was so disgusted with her, they shouted her down.

And they get this woman in their clutches.

And the next thing you see in the movie is it was either later that day or the next day, she is made to read an apology in a written note card they've given her.

And she's not a very good public speaker.

Her reading aloud skills needed improvement.

And she kept stumbling, stumbling on the words, which had clearly been written by somebody else.

And they humiliated her for what?

For just wanting to ask him why he did this thing that was utterly non-controversial, but had been made such by a group of activists who, when given an inch, will always take a mile.

And

I had tears.

I wept at what happened to her, what happened to him, lost his job, what happened to me, what's happening to us, to our country.

That was the moment, Glenn, that I said, I'm going to get off of my damn couch and I'm going to get back out there.

And I'm going to do it in a way that I control it and I can say what I know millions of people also feel.

I can stand up to these bullies, not just for me, but for everyone who feels like they can't say anything anymore.

And that's why I'm totally committed to this show, to this mission.

And when I wake up and I go to do the show every day, I feel totally joyful.

And I don't care what they say about me, what they write about me, what they threaten me with.

I'm good.

I will tell you, when I left Fox,

Roger said, you're not really leaving for that internet thing.

And he just didn't see the vision at all.

And I said, yeah, I am.

And it is freeing.

And I saw a picture of you dancing in a free shirt, a shirt that said, free or freedom.

Feeling free.

Yeah.

And I can relate to it, but I'd like you just to voice what you meant by

it something like, it feels so good to, I have it here, feels so good to be free of corporate media or

something like that.

Being outside of, it's fun being outside of corporate media.

What's the difference for those who don't know?

So many.

No one's trying to tell me what to say or how to lean or what story selection I have to choose or what guests I can or cannot put on.

No one's trying to attack me inside of my own workplace or destroy me or create a picture of me that has no bearing at all to who I really am.

And separate and apart from that, and I also love just the direct relationship with the audience.

It's direct.

It's so authentic and meaningful.

And if they tune in, it's a real relationship between me and them.

They don't listen to me because I followed O'Reilly.

They listen to me because they want to listen to me.

So I love that.

But I also have to say, the digital world is fun.

It's, it is joyful.

Cable news is stressful and dark.

And I think if you're a viewer, you know it on some level.

You don't feel good when you turn off these shows.

Nope.

And you're not meant to.

You're not meant to.

Stoking outrage pays the bills.

Digital.

I'll just give you one example.

It was election night, and I was doing a lot of digital stuff.

And oh, no, it was one of the debate nights.

I was doing a lot of interviews and podcasts and stuff like that.

And I did one with Steven Crowder, who's a rip.

And

he was wearing silk boxer underwear and like a boxer's robe made out of silk, red, white, and blue.

And we did an interview like that.

And I'm like, I love my new world.

My new world is so much more fun than my old world.

I love Brett Baer, but this would never have happened.

Yeah, exactly right.

I just think it's more like how real people live, and it's not stodgy and it's not judgmental.

It's free willing and it's fun and it's the future.

Megan, thank you so much.

Always good to see you.

God bless.

Thanks for having me.

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.