NJ ‘Weaponized’ Against a Gym | Guests: Ian Smith & Matt Ridley | 5/22/20

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What you're about to hear is the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

This is the Glenn Beck Program.

Oh, yeah.

Hello, America.

It is Thursday.

We've got a great show for you.

I mean, Thursday is where this is a date that will live in infamy.

Donald Trump is going to Michigan.

He's going to visit the Ford plant today.

Remember, it's in Michigan,

where the Attorney General just told the White House

from the state of Michigan that when the president is on tour and he's in Michigan, he is required to wear a mask.

And

he would love to have the president come to Ford, but he better be wearing a mask.

Who's got money on

not a chance in hell?

I can't wait.

What are you going to do, Michigan?

The governor going to send out the police to arrest the president of the United States?

Oh, it's a sweet, sweet day in America.

This is the small things in life.

We begin our program in 60 seconds.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

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So last night, I did a TV show on the new civil rights era.

And I think we are in a civil rights crisis.

I think we are headed for trouble

because some of these states are absolutely out of control.

Thank God it's not coming from the federal government.

Thank God we have the federal government to run to and say, hey, Justice Department, can you investigate this?

So do you remember?

I think it was on Monday when we played the audio of that cop in New Jersey opening up the

gym in New Jersey, the Attilas gym, and he said, you're all in violation.

But have a nice day.

And I said on the air, it feels like a do you believe in miracles moment?

You know, kind of that moment of the Olympics in the 1980s.

Well, I got an update for you.

That same cop, that same guy,

came back to the gym 50 minutes later and started arresting people.

After the cameras had gone, he comes back and starts arresting people.

Now, I don't know what happened.

I don't know if he got his head handed to him.

I don't know.

But I mean, it shows at very, at the best, it shows he believed in something,

then got his head handed to him, and he folded on what he believes.

I don't know if that, I don't know what happened, but somebody who might is the owner of the Attilas gym.

His name is Ian Smith because he's got even more bad news.

This gym has now officially been closed.

Ian, welcome to the program.

How are you?

I'm good, Glenn.

How are you?

I'd be better if your story was better.

First of all,

let's start with a cop.

Do you know anything about this cop or

how did he leave a hero and come back 50 minutes later and start arresting people?

We are very close-knit with local law enforcement at our gym.

Our gym is full of

law enforcement, first responders,

active and veteran military.

Sure.

So

a lot of these guys, you know, we know on a very personal level.

I have never met that individual, although, I mean, I guess now I know him.

He came and that first sort of video clip where everybody was rejoicing and chanting USA, USA, USA, was

what I believe to be his true feelings.

When he came back later, about 50 minutes later, it just so happened to be about 10 minutes before Governor Murphy's press conference.

So that leads me to believe, along with a lot of the other stuff that we've been hearing,

that this stuff is coming straight down from the top, that these guys are being put in

a position where

they have to choose between their jobs and their tensions and their livelihoods.

Oh, geez.

Or put off.

These guys got to...

They've got to stand up.

Police officers, please, the people will stand with you.

Will stand with you.

You've got to stand up and

risk your job.

And I know that's a really big thing, but I'm telling you, the Justice Department will go all over this.

If people start firing our cops like they did in Seattle for just speaking out or doing the right thing, A, it's going to work out well for you in the end because I think that cop in Seattle, he could be a sheriff anywhere.

People would elect him in any decent city.

You know, not Seattle, but

they would elect him sheriff.

He'll get another job.

It will pay tenfold if you just stand.

Okay, so now you found out last night that the health department came out and put notices all over your door that you are not allowed to open up because of the health department.

Tell me about that.

Correct.

So yesterday, Governor Murphy in his press conference addressed the gym, and he said, he mentioned something about continuing to pursue us legally,

which

I think he knows, although he won't publicly admit it, that he has no legal grounds to shut us down, that we are protected by the Constitution, and that no matter what he says in his executive orders or how many citations that he's handed us, which is three days for us now.

So, we're up to, me and my partner are up to, I think, think seven each.

Seven grand each.

No, seven tickets each.

Seven tickets each, okay.

Yeah, so I think Governor Murphy truly knows that that he doesn't have a leg to stand on where that's concerned so he's you know he's resorted and he very very publicly stated that he's gonna get the health department involved coincidentally about two hours later our

our sewage system was sabotaged by somebody stuffing an entire roll of commercial paper towels down into our toilets to the point where we did have to shut down the gym for the day

backflowing.

So we are investigating how that happens.

But we had three different plumbing crews come out last night that had to bring in some legit equipment, not just like a snake and a plunger, but

we had these specialized trucks that had to come in and

blast water into our pipes in order to clear it out.

And they finally got that resolved.

But they confirmed that that was very clearly, purposely done.

That wasn't, you know, oops, I flushed one piece of paper down the toilet.

It was quite deliberate.

So we spent the night doing that.

Frank and I left at about 9 o'clock.

And

in the middle of the night, somebody had, I guess, was kind of passing the gym, and they saw that there were four squad cars here in the middle of the night, as well as some other unmarked vehicles posting some stuff on the wall.

And we have some pictures of that that we actually just handed over to Fox 29 News.

Posting this stuff on the wall in the middle of the night, and it is basically an order of embargo, it says.

And the health code code violations, we looked them up, are extremely vague.

There's not nothing specific that we did to violate.

And then in addition to that, no health department official has ever stepped foot inside of our building as long as we've owned it.

So the wording in it is very vague.

It just refers to coronavirus spreading and stuff like that.

But we're the only business in the entire strip mall that seems to be closed.

So

it's a little baffling.

I don't understand how they can come in and shut us down without even inspecting our facilities.

There's things on there that mention poor ventilation.

You know, if you would just step inside our facilities, we have an air scrubber inside.

We have an HVAC system that works perfectly fine.

The facility is ventilated.

There's a ton of measures that we've taken.

So it's flimsy at best, and we have our lawyers working on it.

And we plan to open up tomorrow.

I have to tell you, Ian, I'm about to lose my mind, and I think America feels the same way.

I talked to a woman yesterday.

She's a salon owner.

They said they were going to arrest her.

This is in Oregon.

They didn't arrest her.

They have threatened to pull her business license.

Yeah.

And then they sent child protective services to her house.

That's crazy.

This is such an abuse of power.

That was going to happen to us as well.

We have a 15-year-old at home and

it keeps her up at night, all of the potential blowback from this, because

she stands behind me or at my side with all of this.

But

it's pretty scary when government organizations are weaponized against the public.

Department of Health is there to protect us, and for the most part, that's what they do as their job.

But these these governors are weaponizing these organizations that are meant to protect the public to enforce

their will.

And that's a pretty scary thing.

And then the same thing with Child Protective Services.

That organization is there to protect

children, but it's being used in the case of the salon owner in Oregon

as a weapon against her.

And that's pretty alarming.

That's very scary.

Ian, stay in touch with us.

Let us know what's happening.

Don't let a day go by.

If they're upping it, if they're using another weapon, make sure you reach out to us, okay?

Absolutely.

I'll keep you guys in touch.

And

what is the GoFundMe page if people want to help

you with your legal bills?

So the GoFundMe was set up by one of our members, and that is a defense fund, not only for us as owners, but we have a bunch of member slash volunteers who have been helping us stay open during this time,

as well well as all of our members because some of them have been arrested and charged.

We have set up that legal

funds, and our lawyers have agreed to represent everybody.

So that's going to pay for the costs of the lawyers, as well as any fines or punishment incurred by any member or patron of the facility or any volunteer as well.

And that's available on our social media.

There's a link on

our Instagram, which is Attila's Jim Belmar.

So, yeah, and we're going to keep pushing forward.

You know, we're definitely not going to back down.

And we are very thankful that our members stand behind us as well, and we're going to stand with them.

Good, good for you.

Thank you very much.

TheatilisJim.com.

You can find them also and help them with their GoFundMe page.

You bet.

Listen, I want to talk to every police officer within the sound of my voice right now.

Heroes are made

at times of strife.

We are fortunate to live at this time.

We could look at this as a curse, you know,

the old saying about the Chinese, may you live in interesting times,

and you know, that it's a curse.

And nobody wants to live through these times, but you are given the opportunity.

If

Dietrich Bonhoeffer would have been born 40 years before, 40 years after, we wouldn't know his name.

He had the opportunity because of where he lived and the time he lived to actually fulfill his

greatest self.

You know, when you're not pushed up against the wall, you don't have a chance to be stronger and better than you think you are right now.

We are in a situation to where heroes are going to be

found.

And quite honestly, God uses all of us, absolutely every one of us, we are called at this time to protect the freedom of all mankind, all mankind.

Anyone who is an enemy of the rights of the people, they're not an enemy of mine or yours.

They're an enemy of God's because those rights belong to him.

And when you stand up,

you have an obligation to stand up.

But if you don't, it's no big deal.

He'll find somebody else because there are millions that will stand up.

But give your children something to be proud of.

Give your children an example that says, yeah, at that time,

I didn't know what was going to happen, but I knew I had to stand up.

And I urge every police officer within the sound of my voice,

if you listen to me and you find any use in anything that I have ever said to you, please consider reading Ordinary Men.

It's a book that came out.

It's based on a study after World War II, and it's how the Germans took one of the best police forces in Poland and turned them into vicious killers.

And no one could understand why.

And it took these police officers a long time before they could talk about it after the war.

But the study was done, and it's not that hard

to to see how they did it.

And some of these things are playing a role today.

And if you don't know how it's done, if you don't know the steps, you're going to fall into the same trap because it happens as a collective only when individuals stand up.

And there were a few individuals that left that police force and said, I can't do it.

I can't do it.

And they could live with themselves.

Please, please, you are there to protect and serve.

You are there to protect the Constitution and the people from anyone, foreign, domestic, it doesn't matter, that is violating the Constitution.

This audience loves you.

This audience generally loves police, and we are having a hard time.

We're really having a hard time.

Your greatest defenders are having a hard time right now with the FBI and everything else.

We don't know who the good guys are.

Please, we believe in you and we know it's tough, but I'll tell you this, Americans will rally around you.

Please stand up.

By the way, the name of the book again is Ordinary Men.

Everyone in this audience should read it.

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So Biden has ripped into the Hunter Biden inquiry as an effort to resurrect the debunked smear

that something was wrong.

Yesterday, in a very underreported story,

audio was released of John Kerry and Joe Biden talking to the former president of Ukraine.

Absolutely everything we said was going on in Ukraine is now coming out with audio tape.

Audiotape showing that this is exactly what happened.

In the audio tape, which we'll play for you in a minute, in the audio tape, you have Proshenko, the president, speaking to John Kerry, and John Kerry saying, look, the vice president is coming over and he really wants this guy gone.

And John Kerry couches it in, you know, that he's corrupt and everything else.

And Proshenko says, look,

even though, There are no charges against this guy, even though there are no complaints filed, and we don't have any reason to believe he's corrupt

because of our deal.

What's that mean?

I want to show you that I'm a good partner, and I will, I've asked him for his resignation.

So

you have the deal being cut, and all of the lies of the media that everyone knew that he was corrupt.

No, even the president who was in dirty dealings with our former

administration, even they said, there's nothing there.

There's no evidence, there's no charges, there's nothing there.

But because I'll be subservient to you,

I'll ask him for his resignation.

Then you have Joe Biden calling and all on tape saying, hey, thank you so much.

And of course, that billion dollars now is coming your way.

And this is a debunked smear, Mr.

Biden?

I think not.

Buckle up.

This is going to get good.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

All right.

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So there's a lot of news that is not being reported.

A lot of things like we have talked about the trouble of child abuse and domestic abuse in homes that nobody is reporting, but the New York Post

finally is thinking about the average person.

They've just released a story.

People stuck in haunted homes during quarantine are reporting now a rise in spooky happenings.

Now this story is written by Natalie O'Neill who Natalie, good for you for taking on those big.

Yes, you're in New York.

Yes, you could be reporting on the spooky happenings around Cuomo and how everybody old around him seems to die.

But no, you got the real important story, the spooky happenings in haunted houses.

I was intrigued by this story, and I wanted to reach out to one of the guys who is mentioned in this story.

His name is Brent Underwood.

He is the owner of Cero Gordo.

It's a ghost town.

And he says, I don't believe in ghosts, but spooky happenings have happened.

Brent Underwood, welcome to the program.

How are you, sir?

Good morning.

I'm doing pretty good.

How are you?

Well, I'm pretty good.

Now, you bought an abandoned silver mine, right?

And is this in Nevada or is this California?

Where is this?

It's about three hours outside of L.A., so it's in California.

It's kind of right by Mount Whitney, if that gives you a point of reference, in between Death Valley and Sequoia National Park.

Okay,

what a wild place.

Death Valley and Sequoia National Park right next to each other is crazy.

So tell me, you bought this, and it looks beautiful.

You bought this a while back.

You had heard the stories of the ghost town and everything else, but

you don't buy into any of that stuff, do you?

No, I mean, I bought it about two years ago with some friends, and there was a town that at one point in time was the largest producer of Silver, California.

So there was 4,000 residents.

All the people were telling me that there used to be a murder per week in the town, and the miners used to line their bunk bags with sandbags to stop the stray bullets in the middle of the night.

And so, even stuff like that, or there's a cemetery on site, and so the ghost stories were abundant before buying it, but I kind of brushed them all away.

You know,

I guess I should say I wasn't a ghost believer, but then about two months ago, when the COVID crisis hit,

our caretaker, we typically have a live-in caretaker that lives here, he wanted to go home to be with his wife.

So, I packed up my stuff in Austin, where I typically live, and headed out.

And I've been here ever since.

And so you say you weren't a believer in ghosts, and now you are.

What happened?

I think it goes in increments.

At first, it's easy to push away these things and rationalize them away, but I think my first entry into that sphere was one night I was walking to watch the sunset, and there's 22 buildings here, so there's quite a few buildings.

And one of the buildings is called a bunkhouse, and it's an eight-bedroom house that all the miners used to stay in when they lived here.

And as I was going past, I noticed something in the living room that opened up the curtain and closed the curtain, and the light was on in the living room.

And I hadn't noticed the light had been on in that building before.

So I went in there, and I turned off the light, and I put a padlock on the door.

And keep in mind, I'm the only one with the key to

the padlock.

And the town's about 30 miles from the closest town, and we're up at

8,000 feet in elevation.

So it's not like there's squatters in there or neighbors or anything that might be messing around.

And so I turned off the light, went about my day, watched the sunset, not a big deal.

Next night, I went back to go to the sunset again, and the light was on again in the living room.

And so I unpadlocked it, and not only was the light on,

the switch was back up.

So to me, at first, you jump to like, oh, sure, it was faulty electricity, you know, this or that.

But I think being alone in a town with a history like this, it definitely raised my kind of like, I guess, inner

questions I guess I should say and then a couple nights later in the house

all right no go ahead go ahead couple nights later

so a couple a couple nights later I was at the house that I was staying in

in the middle of the night this is probably like three or four in the morning a book fell off the shelf and again this is a house that there's no draft I have no pets up here I don't have a cat I don't have a dog there's no rat and then as I woke up I just had this overwhelming sense that something else is in the house with me and when I did this I instinctually just looked towards the ground.

You know, I thought maybe it was like an animal of some type, but nothing there.

And I just couldn't escape the feeling.

And then after that, there's a pretty quick succession that things start moving around.

You know, I wallet went from one house to the other house and just all these things that I couldn't explain.

Where if you're there sitting alone in the middle of the night in a town 30 miles from no from anybody else, you start jumping to conclusions, I guess.

Yeah, so that's what I was going to ask you, Brent.

I mean, you know, you're in a town where there are stories of ghosts ghosts

and you're all by yourself in the middle of nowhere.

I mean, I freak out.

I have a cabin in the middle of absolutely nowhere as well.

And I've been there by myself at times.

And when I'm there by myself, honestly, I keep my gun close

because at night you just start hearing things and you're like, I don't know, man.

What was that?

What was that?

Do you think this, I mean, was just playing with you?

Your mind was playing with you?

Maybe a little bit, but I think, I mean, similar to your gun, I keep a golf club in the bed with me.

I don't know how effective golf clubs are against ghosts, you know.

You know, we'll find out.

Guns, too.

Right.

It was, I definitely try to rationalize away.

I always think, you know, you know, that could be the win, that could be this, but just the light switch and then my wallet moving is just something that I couldn't explain.

And I

maybe I bought into it, but at this point, I've moved from non-believer to let's just find a way to coexist with these ghosts.

And so how I handle it is, I don't go where I know they like to hang out, like the bunkhouse and the hotel and these other buildings.

And I hope that maybe they respect my space as well.

All right, so hang on just a second.

I just want to give one more thing.

So, somebody went in, or a ghost went in, turned on the lights,

you lock them, but they somehow or another got past that lock.

Then, the next thing you notice is somehow or another, your wallet had been moved.

Is it possible

that that is something

more earthly like someone who is squatting and looking for money in your wallet?

Is that possible?

I mean, when I say these things out loud, I know how ridiculous it sounds.

I'm with you on the

aspect of it.

This is insane, particularly coming from a guy that's stuck in a town by himself.

It might sound like I'm going a bit crazy, which who knows?

And that might be the case.

I'm not going to rule that out either.

But

I searched the buildings with my golf club.

I didn't find any squatters on the back.

I love it.

I tell you, Brent, the reason why you're on with us is because I read this story and I thought, this is ridiculous.

And then

we called a lot of the people and Sarah, who's our booker, she said, you're going to love Brent because he's like, I know this is crazy.

And I might be crazy because I know what it sounds like.

And I love your

take on it.

I will say, Brent, you know, a lot of people would point out because you say, you know, you bought into this and you literally did buy into this.

Like, you've bought into this business.

So is it possible that you're being motivated by the idea that more ghosts, good for business?

I didn't think of the ghost as a business.

Because that will move your wallet, Brent.

You know, listen, may y'all start listing the ghost as an asset on our business.

But until then,

until they leave leave me alone.

So, are you gonna

restore this and you're gonna make it a, you know, like a

not a tourist place, but like a kind of a western resort, I guess?

Kind of like a lodge, yeah.

I hope to one day renovate the buildings.

That's what I've been working on when I'm up here, to allow more people to come and stay and experience the history and the natural beauty.

Hopefully, not the ghosts, but you know, everything else, I guess.

Well, I don't know.

I don't know.

People might pay extra for the ghosts, so you might want you might want to keep that one to yourself.

Brent, thank you so much for talking to us.

I appreciate it.

Yes,

another

result of COVID-19.

Right here, an under-reported ghost sighting.

Brent Underwood, we'll talk again when you

open up your lodge.

Thank you so much.

Maybe we should go Stu.

We could be the ghosts.

I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for those pesky kids.

A lot of people out of work right now, people could use good jobs like ghosting.

Right.

There's probably a lot of people that would be like, hmm,

I wonder if I could move this wallet and some of the things in this wallet.

All right, relief factor.

If you're somebody who experiences pain, daily pain, especially

debilitating pain, pain that just makes you say when you get up in the morning, I can't do it another day.

I'm with you.

I know it.

If you happen to be watching us on the Blaze,

it occurred to me yesterday as I was packing up my things to go on vacation, as I was looking at all of these, the artwork behind me, this is all stuff I've done since COVID.

I've never painted as much as I'm painting right now.

And it's something that two years ago, I thought was over.

I mean, I really did.

I had such pain, I couldn't hold a paintbrush.

I have to show you some point a painting that I have hanging on my wall, and it, you can see the lines in it.

It's so shaky from the pain that it was the time when I said, I don't, I can't paint anymore.

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You're listening to Glenn Beck.

Okay, this, you're going to love this.

The Blaze and Elijah Schaefer is reporting today

on

the madness of Twitch.

Now, Twitch is a gamers platform and they have just added a new member to their moderation team, a transgender who identifies as a deer

They're going to be the monitor of freedom of speech and what's allowed and what's and what's not now I just you know, I think I've said enough already, but let me let you hear from

this deer

and

what he or she has

said.

This is Steph Lauer.

And here's what she said.

Let's take cut one

of Steph.

But I'm hanging in there, and I'm not going anywhere.

I have power.

They can't take it away from me.

And honestly,

you know, I...

These.

there are some people that should be afraid of me

and that they are because I represent uh moderation and diversity and

I'm gonna come for hurtful harmful people if you're a really person I'm gonna stand up against you

so people should fear me.

Okay, now she's on a gaming platform

And

here's what she thinks about gamers.

Listen to this Well, no, I just

not cool with white supremacy, y'all.

It's really not that.

I think a lot of you gamers are actually white supremacists.

Sorry.

Just a fact of how I feel.

Wait, that's totally different.

A fact and a fact about how you feel are totally different things.

No, facts.

Feelings are facts.

Feelings are facts.

It might be a fact that you should feel that way, but what does that mean?

You should be banned.

Now,

here she is talking about what she likes to do in her off times.

So

in my spare time.

Stop.

Stop.

Stop.

Stop.

Freeze that frame.

Can you freeze that frame?

She's wearing antlers.

I just...

You're missing a lot if you're not watching us on Blaze, but she's wearing antlers.

And she's a good-looking woman.

A deer.

A A female deer.

A doe, a deer, a female deer.

Anyway, go ahead, play this sauce.

My yard.

In my spare time, I go out to my yard and

I prance around and

I eat grass.

And I just launch it because it helps me feel like in tune with my dear self.

Thank you.

Now,

Stu.

Is this real?

That's what I was just going to ask.

Do you think this is real?

Gamers are racist.

She's on Twitch.

That doesn't make any sense.

You know, she likes to go eat grass.

I mean, maybe she is, but

I don't even know anymore.

It's an amazing conversation, the idea that we actually think it could be real, right?

But I mean,

sure, knows this world better than I do.

Ten years ago, I would say this is absolutely bogus, but today,

yeah,

so.

And what else is in the news?

I mean, that, that, that, today, this makes sense.

And I would say, too, I mean, a good chunk of the country has absolutely no right to say anything other than it's true, and you should respect her as a deer.

A doe, a female deer, whatever, a female deal

fine yes

i don't fall into the category that that would that would say that but there's no reason to if you're going to say a guy can just identify as a woman whenever he feels like it why can't they identify as a doe why not

again like you're not

Because there's no physical characteristics that coincide with being a doe.

What does that have to do with it?

Right.

What does that have to do with anything?

What does it have to do with it?

Nothing.

Ellen explained this a long time ago, I remember on her show, is saying, like, you know,

it's a way you feel in your mind when you're talking about gender.

It's a way you feel in your mind.

Well, all right.

I don't know what that has to do with society.

Like, it's whatever you want to feel in your mind.

I don't know why we would change any policies based on that.

But if that's what you're talking about, okay, whatever.

But that's not something that necessarily affects anyone else.

That's that's you.

So there's your lead.

I'm being kind.

There's at least a 50% chance chance this is absolutely real.

The lunatics are in charge of the asylum.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

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Hey, I want to talk to you.

Thanks, Hillary.

I want to talk to you about taking 10 minutes out of your day and calling American financing.

I mean, you know, no judgment here, but if you don't do it, you're just a bad person.

I thought I'd try that.

What do you think, Stu?

I'm thinking about trying this new tactic out on advertising.

I like that.

Just insulting to it.

Do it.

You're just stupid.

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What you're about to hear

is

entertainment entertainment and enlightenment.

This is the Glenn Bath program.

So I have some very good news for you.

New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said yesterday there will be no swimming.

No swimming, no sneezing, no farting, no crying.

None of the city beaches are going to be open and if you try to go swimming in a New York City beach, you'll be taking right out of water he said

okay first of all

you should never go swimming on a new york city beach you should never go into the

you don't know what's in that water and i mean when there's no pandemic never go to a beach in manhattan now cone island he said you want to walk on beach fine no swimming no parties no barbecue no farting anyone i'm quoting him anyone who tries to get into water, they'll be taken right out of water.

And I will put up fence.

We will have it, but I will not put it up unless we have to take tougher measures.

Fencing again is available, but I don't want to don't make me pull this car over.

No swimming, no sports.

Just use common sense at beach.

Are you

kidding me?

You can walk on the beach,

but you can't go into the water.

Why?

Stop with the fear.

Stop with the...

Well,

I can't say this to Bill de Blasio.

I was going to say stop with the communist tactics, but actually Bill de Blasio, hey, commies are great.

I love...

Who doesn't love a good commie on a Tuesday, huh?

This is the Glenn Beck program.

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So one of the guys that really has shaped Stu and his way of thinking, and Stu is a very rational guy, and

I like having him as my partner and my executive producer because

I tend to go with the heart

and see things through the heart.

And Stu sees things really through analytics.

You can say that I don't have a heart.

I understand that.

But you don't.

I mean, you make the tin man seem warm and

cuddly.

Thank you.

But one of the guys who really shaped him, and I think is really brilliant, Stu turned me on to him with the rational optimist,

Matt Ridley.

Matt Ridley was on with us, I don't know, a few weeks ago, talking about COVID-19 and, you know, that it is serious, but there are some things to, you know, there are some other things that we should also take into consideration, like, oh, I don't know, an economy so we don't all die from starvation.

He's got a new book out called How Innovation Works.

And I've been reading it.

Stu has, are you finished with it yet, Stu?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it's great.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great book.

Matt Ridley is joining us now.

Hello, Matt.

How are you?

Hi, can you not get a copy each?

I took his copy.

No, he doesn't.

Yeah.

Yeah,

we can't afford two books.

That's crazy, Matt.

So the name of the book is How Innovation Works, and I like the subtitle and Why It Flourishes in Freedom.

So, Matt,

first lay out just the...

the premise of

the book.

Well, the premise of the book is that innovation is the most important theme of the modern world.

It's somewhat mysterious.

We still don't quite understand why it happens when and where it does, why it happens to some technologies and not others.

And I'm having a stab at explaining that.

And my answer is basically that

it's a phenomenon.

It's a gradual, incremental, collective phenomenon that happens amongst our brains rather than inside any one person's brain.

It's about people

trying things and sharing ideas and coming up with new ideas.

So, Matt, can you Stu and I have been talking about this for a long time.

We go back and forth on this.

Can you tell me,

is there a real phenomenon, or does it just seem this way, that

people start to work on things

in different parts of the world around the same time?

And they're not connected.

It's almost like there's some sort of

a collective hive mind where we make innovations around the same time.

Is that can you explain that?

Is that even real?

It's really

just my perception.

No, it's not your perception.

It's absolutely right.

Because

if you look at the history of almost any gadget, you find there are three or four people who have a good claim to have invented it independently.

You know, the thermometer or whatever it might be.

The telephone.

The extreme case.

Yeah.

The extreme case is the light bulb, where 21 different people came up with the idea of the light bulb bulb independently in different countries.

There was Lodigin in Russia and Swan here, pretty well the same hometown as me in England, and of course a guy called F.

Edison on your side of the pond who did pretty well out of it.

But then if you think about a more modern example like the search engine, probably the most useful innovation of my lifetime, the one I use every day, and the one that nobody saw coming, but that was amazingly obvious in retrospect.

Because by the time you you get to the early 1990s, you've invented the Internet.

It's pretty well bound to be the case that people are going to invent programs that enable you to search the Internet intelligently.

And it's probably obvious that that's going to be the way to make money out of the Internet.

So if Larry Page had never met Sergei Brin, we'd still have

search engines.

We just wouldn't call them Google.

And so I think that that example tells you that what's happening is that the technologies you need to bring together to develop a new technology are ripe.

They're ready.

You've reached the point where it's inevitable that someone's going to do this next step.

And that's why you get this wave of simultaneous invention.

It leads to a lot of patent and copyright disputes.

People are constantly getting into a terrible row about this.

In fact, there's quite a nice

subsection here.

It turns out there's a whole bunch of books that wrote about wizards and communicating via owls

in around the same time as J.K.

Rowling.

She just happened to be the one that caught that idea at its most extreme.

That one does feel really weird,

but I suspect that is because people, you know, there are always somebody writing about owls and wizards.

Well, of course, because wizards are true, and so is everything that J.K.

Rowling writes.

Let me talk to you about some of the things in the book.

You talk about vaccines.

Tell me where you stand on vaccines, and let's talk about this

in real time here with vaccines coming into play in our world and

forced vaccines are possible, et cetera, et cetera.

So talk to me a little bit about vaccines.

Well, vaccines are an example of the not having been enough innovation.

So, you know, when this pandemic started, I was slightly surprised to discover that it's still 12 to 18 months to develop a vaccine minimum, and that, you know, decades go by without us developing a vaccine for a new virus.

And indeed, there are people out there saying it's a disgrace that we don't develop vaccines faster.

When you think back to, I write about the hooping cough vaccine in my book, which was invented by two really brilliant women in Michigan in the 1930s, and in about four years from start to finish.

Now, that would be quite quick even today.

So, how come it's so slow?

Why is it that

it's taking so long to do this?

And

the answer is because we haven't put enough investment into vaccine development.

We haven't been prioritizing it.

We've been looking in the wrong direction, obsessing about things like climate change as a threat to health instead of pandemics.

And

do we lose him?

Let's see if we can get him back on the line.

I will tell you that I would have guessed government.

You bet.

I would have bet government was the biggest impediment on vaccines.

Yeah, we should get that investment.

Because he goes through this in the book as well as it relates to things like nuclear power.

There's a certain level where there is

so much regulation and so much government

involvement that there is never a time in which the private sector can really even take it on in a meaningful way.

So,

have you heard about what they're doing in Idaho with nuclear power?

Somebody has come up with a nuclear power

device that can be completely self-contained, cannot go into meltdown.

It's very small.

It's the size of like a grain silo at a farm.

Okay.

And

they cascade into each other.

So one

is delivering energy and then it combines with the others and it makes enough power.

And they're saying now that this is a completely safe kind of

nuclear power because

it can't go into meltdown.

If something happens, it just shuts off and it will never go into meltdown because it's not big enough.

And they're just tying them together.

And they're supposedly doing a big test on this soon up in

Idaho.

Really?

I find it fascinating.

That's encouraging.

I know Matt goes into this in the book about nuclear power, and I think Matt's rejoining us now because it's

we were talking, Matt, as you were gone, about the similarities between, in some ways, vaccines and what you talked about with nuclear power, and that there's at some level there becomes so much government oversight and regulation that there's no real ability or incentive for anyone in the private sector to innovate in those in those fields.

Yeah, when you said that, you know, what's the biggest, I wanted to guess because I thought it would be government, not lack of investment.

I thought it would be government.

Well, it often is, and government regulation gives you a huge hurdle to get over in anything medical.

You know, medical devices take four to five years to get approval in some countries.

That deters a lot of investment.

And it's similar in vaccines.

There's a huge amount of safety regulation and others, quite rightly.

But no company is going to go through that if it can't make money out of the product at the end.

And it's something similar in nuclear, because the problem with nuclear is we demand for the licensing of a nuclear plant such enormously detailed specification of every nut and bolt in the thing many years in advance and such hundreds of millions of dollars spent on getting the license that you then can't change it.

If you change it, you have to start all over again.

And so that deters the sort of trial and error experimentation that is normal when you're building something that big to get it right.

And as a result, that technology can't evolve, it can't change, it can't improve.

So it is a bit similar, the vaccine and the nuclear story.

Big government regulation getting in the way of the kind of experimentation and cheap work.

There's a very nice example, though, from the Gates Foundation of how to fund vaccination in a way that does incentivize it.

And that is to dangle a prize.

And the prize is a sort of subsidized contract to distribute the vaccine for pneumococcus in the developing world.

Geez, we've lost him again?

Every time he talks about Bill Gates?

Yeah, this is this.

You you see what's happening.

You see what's happening.

Government and Bill Gates.

All right, we're going to take a quick break.

Let's see if we one more shot.

Three strikes, and we're out here.

But

we're trying awfully hard.

Matt Ridley, really a brilliant guy,

the rational optimist, and how innovation works.

And it's something really important because we want to talk about opening up the country again and get his advice on that.

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Is it just how crappy England is?

I mean, what's wrong with this phone?

Here's a guy who's like talking about innovation.

And what is it?

This crappy cell service in England?

What is going on?

There's been no innovation when it comes to international communication, apparently.

It has not happened at all.

You know, yeah, unfortunately, you know, the Matt's connection is not working out here.

I would definitely highly recommend the book, though, How Innovation Works.

I told him, I think another title for it could have been How Civilization Works, because he basically tells the storyline of everything that we do, use, and which makes our society civilized and how it all happened.

And so often, Glenn, it's the opposite of what...

Al Gore would tell you or whatever, you know, whatever believe the science doctrine you're getting from an MSNBC, where instead of,

you you know, the way they describe this process would be: okay, science comes up and they do the research.

Government gives them the money, they do the research in some university, they announce this big discovery, and then, yeah, whatever.

I guess then down the line, you know, the private sector takes it and makes it into and commercializes it or whatever.

It's actually the opposite over and over again, where it's the person working in the field, trial and error, trying to figure out a problem and doing it before the science can even explain it.

Like

the doer is the one with the innovation.

The doer is the one who does the work.

And then the science can come on the other side and says, wow, this is why X, Y, and Z is occurring.

They work together well, but it's not this world where we're serving at the altar of every scientific expert, and that's what's designing our society.

So many times, everything from flight to vaccines to a million other things that he describes in the book in detail disprove that story.

And it is, I think, an important important thing for us to remember that it's not, we don't, this isn't a top-down world.

The world, when designed as a top-down sort of structure, just doesn't, doesn't work and doesn't bring these innovations.

And I have to tell you, there's another part of the book.

I don't know if you've read the part about failure yet, but you finished the book.

But

his support of failure is so refreshing.

You know, look, what we're going through right now, honestly, is a giant experiment.

This This pandemic idea was hatched a long time ago by government officials

and others, some with good intentions, some with nefarious.

And we're trying something new.

Let's try shutting the entire world down and see what happens.

If we were actually honest,

We would then take the failures and the successes and we would compare the two.

and we would say where did we fail where did we succeed but that's not happening do we have do we have Ron DeSantis telling the press off this is such a great example of of if you want to make progress you have to address the truth listen to this so first of all okay so one she's not she's not a data scientist she's somebody that's got degree in journalism communication and geography she is not involved in collating any data She does not have the expertise to do that.

She is not an epidemiologist.

She is not

the chief architect of our web portal.

That is another false statement.

And what she was doing was she was putting data on the portal, which the scientists didn't believe was valid data.

So she didn't listen to the people who were her superiors.

She had many people above her in the chain of command.

And so then she was dismissed because of that and because of a bunch of different reasons about how she did.

Hmm.

Seems.

That wasn't the one I was looking for, was it?

Seems like a good reasoning, though, I will say.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's true.

It's true.

I think

going to the, because you were talking about the bringing into this trial, you know, the power of failure.

Right.

Right.

And one thing I was reading Matt's book that I had never really thought about before was the phrase trial and error never points to success.

It actually never, it's not trial and error and trial and success, it's just trial and error.

It's so central to the way we develop these things that that is the more important thing.

If you don't have the idea to go, you know, the possibility of going out there and screwing it up over and over and over again and ruling things out, that does so much work, not only for you and what you're trying to invent or create, but also down the line, it eliminates other

dead ends for people trying to innovate after you.

Here's the thing, as well, though.

As somebody who is trying to learn how to paint,

I have spent my whole life, I taught myself how to paint, and it's all trial and error.

And it's just keep trying and failing and failing and failing and failing.

You get so frustrated.

And then,

you know, I went out and I hired a teacher to come in and help teach me some of the basic principles.

Now, my trial and error is accelerated.

It's all about anything good, you're going to fail at for most of at least the beginning.

You might fail on it your entire life.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

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We'll have to reschedule with Matt Ridley, but his book is out now.

It's How Innovation Works.

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Highly recommended.

It's Matt Ridley.

This is the Glenbeck program.

I want to play some audio that we played for you yesterday, but I think this is stunning.

It's about Joe Biden and the firing of Victor Shokin.

Victor Shokin was like their attorney general over in the Ukraine.

Now, we have told you that

there was no real evidence against Victor Shokin being corrupt.

Everyone says, oh, he's so corrupt.

He's so corrupt.

Well, everybody was saying that, you know,

Trump was in bed with the Russians.

Everybody has been saying that

General Flynn was in bed with the Russians.

We now know, they knew, there was no evidence of that.

Zero.

The FBI was trying to close the case, and the Obama administration kept it open.

So we know how smears work.

But I want to play some audio that I think should be played every day

because we were told that the government of Ukraine knew that he was corrupt.

Everyone in Ukraine knew.

The president even knew that they were corrupt.

The president of Ukraine knew that Viktor Shokin was corrupt and had to be fired.

Well, that doesn't seem to jive with this new audio.

This has been released because of a court procedure over in

Ukraine where Joe Biden has now been named as

a suspect in a crime of interference with the government of Ukraine.

Everything that we put out on the chalkboard looks as though the evidence is pointing to

it's going to be proven in a court of law.

And I want you to listen to this audio.

The first piece is from

John Kerry.

We think he's on Air Force 2.

And he is calling

Proshenko.

He is the former president of Ukraine.

And he's saying, look,

Joe Biden is coming over and

he wants

this prosecutor fired.

And he's corrupt and we want him fired.

I want you to listen carefully to what he's saying and more importantly, what the president of the Ukraine, who is in the pocket of Russia and in the pocket of the Obama administration, what he says about Viktor Shokin.

Listen.

Before Vice President Biden comes, I just wanted to try to urge you

to see see

if there's a way to get by this problem of replacing the Prosecutor General,

you know, Shookian.

Because from our perception, he's blocked the cleanup of the Prosecutor General's office.

And

I know the Vice President is very concerned about it, and I think it'd be good to try to have some resolution of that before the Vice President comes.

Okay, stop.

I want to pause it there for a second.

Notice what he said.

He didn't say he's corrupt.

He said he's blocked some of the progress on

some of the prosecution that we are interested in pursuing.

So first, he's not making the corrupt.

He's saying he's slowing the process down.

And Joe Biden wants him gone.

So can you do anything to

work past this so we can get through?

Because Joe Biden wants him replaced.

Continue.

Oh, is that all in that clip?

Okay, yeah, play the next clip, please.

Yesterday I met me with the general prosecutor Shoto.

And despite the fact that we didn't have any corruption charges, we don't have any information about

him doing something wrong,

I especially asked him, no, it was the day before before yesterday, I especially asked him

to resign

in

as his

position

as a state

person

and

despite of the fact that he has a support in the power.

And as a finish of my

meeting with him,

he promised me

to give me the statement on resignation.

And one hour ago, he brought me the

written

statement of his resignation.

Great.

This is my second step for keeping my promises.

Okay, I want you to listen.

I want you to listen to what he just said.

In spite of the fact that we have no information of corruption, that

we have no indication that he's corrupt, there are no charges against him, and he's popular with the people,

as a favor to you,

I've asked him to resign.

Now, that's

pretty explosive,

especially when Joe Biden is saying that everyone knew he was corrupt

the president proshenko just said

right before joe biden was landing there is no evidence of corruption we have no information on that but i called him in anyway as a favor to you now

We also have evidence.

We know

that I believe it, do we have Jason on with us?

Jason is our head researcher.

Jason, are you there yes sir I believe it was what two days before this phone call happened that he issued

a

warrant or a

he was going in to do searches and to call in

witnesses against burisma right it was two days before this yes and it was it was even greater than that this is when we showed that document that you presented on one of your specials that came from the Latvian government that actually named Hunter Biden by name and said, hey, we've got these weird transfers through these like shady money laundering channels.

What's going on with this?

Literally, the next day, they started seizing the property of Zlocheski and Burisma, and they were going to bring in Hunter Biden for questioning the day after.

That's right.

Then he gets called into this office.

I mean, what's funny is you got to think about what's going through Poroshenko's mind during the clip you just played.

They had only hired Shokin for a few months.

He had only been on the job for a few months.

So Biden's saying, you know, he's been destroying that.

He's only been there for three or four months.

He hadn't done anything wrong.

And the reason he was there is because the last guy, the last prosecutor general, they had him before him, he wouldn't investigate Zolachewski.

So the entire European community was like, hey, we got to replace the other guy.

They bring in Shokin.

The first thing he does is go after Burisma, and then Biden freaks out.

This is very, very damning.

And And so, you know, Zolachevsky is the guy who's with Burisma.

He's the guy.

And Proshenko wants to go after Zolachevsky because Zolachevsky is not a fan of Russia.

Prochenko, the president, is in bed with Russia.

He's pro-Russia.

Burisma is run by people that are anti-Russia.

I mean,

none of this makes sense.

And everyone needs to hear this audio because it proves

at least that there needs to be an investigation, that this is not some conspiracy theory.

It doesn't prove absolutely positively.

You have to decide who's lying here.

Is it us, Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden?

It seems like he's really motivated.

John Kerry says he wants him fired.

Joe Biden wants him fired,

and he wants him fired when he's there.

It's exactly the same time as the investigation into Hunter Biden is starting to heat up, and he's about to call Hunter Biden in.

It looks awfully bad.

How do you explain this phone call if you're the media or you're Joe Biden or you're anybody who's been saying this is a conspiracy theory?

How do you explain this?

You know how they'll do it, Glenn.

And the incredible irony of this is that we just got finished with an impeachment.

It was all based around a phone call with a quid pro quo.

And Donald Trump's defense was it was about corruption.

I was trying to weed out corruption.

The ridiculous irony is that Joe Biden has now been caught.

We didn't even have the audio tape for the other one, for Donald Trump's call with Zelensky.

Now we have the audio.

We hear them talking about it.

They're talking about a quid pro quo, and that will be Biden's, you know, his way out as, oh, this is just like Donald Trump.

I was talking about corruption.

I was trying to get rid of corruption.

They couldn't prove that with Donald Trump.

Right, but

that was their excuse.

You have the president of Ukraine saying, we have no evidence of corruption.

We have no information on corruption.

But as a favor to Joe Biden, I guess I'll ask him to resign.

I mean,

that's different than what you had with Donald Trump.

This is the guy was agreeing with Donald Trump.

There's a problem in Ukraine.

I know I've got to clean this up.

He agreed.

This guy didn't agree and did it anyway because he wanted the billion dollars.

This is why it's so important now to look at what the Senate is doing and how they just subpoenaed Blue Star Strategies.

Because if you want to go and make the case that there was something beyond corruption, that it was more about Hunter Biden and the protection of Hunter Biden, Blue Star Strategies is where you go.

Now, Blue Star Strategies.

Strategies remember Blue Star Strategies.

Yeah, that's the PR firm that was hired by Burisma to convince America that there was nothing wrong, right?

That's correct.

And they were lobbying the entire time, sending emails back and forth, trying to say, hey, stop looking at Hunter Biden, stop looking at Burisma.

And we actually,

Blaze TV actually has a source that was involved with Blue Star Strategies, also has a Ukrainian source.

We've been been getting information that a lot of information is going to come out through that Senate subpoena very, very soon.

And we're actually going to get some documents, I believe, before a lot of other people do.

So just stay tuned on that front.

But a lot more is coming out.

So,

Jason, the one thing that I've said, Stu, you remember when we were looking at the Tides Foundation?

And I told the researchers at the time, and I know I've said this to you, Jason,

but it is so clear right now that whatever the left says

the right is doing,

I can guarantee you they're doing it.

They just self-diagnose that, you know,

Donald Trump is going to be a dictator.

Well, no, you guys are actually being the dictator in COVID.

Everything that they say

the right is doing, everything they accuse, it's because they're doing it.

They just

either are using it to muddy the water or they just assume that everybody is that corrupt, that of course they'd be doing that because we're doing it.

I don't know what the reason is, but they always self-diagnose.

Yeah.

Jason,

one other thing.

What about the

charge?

Stu just said,

you know, well, we don't know anything about.

I said,

he says there's no corruption.

And he said,

how did you phrase this, Stu?

There are some stories out there.

Well, yeah, I mean, like, and we talked a little bit about this, Jason, last night when I was doing America.

But

there's the thought that, you know, the reason he would lie, why would Poroshenko say there's no evidence of corruption?

Well, he's Poroshenko's guy.

The corruption is on Poroshenko's behalf, so therefore, of course, he's going to say there is no corruption.

Yeah, I don't.

Well,

the thing

with Shoken is that there were allegations

that were going around that a lot of the people that were involved were saying, like,

a lot of the allegations were being floated around by Soros groups, by other groups that

had other ulterior agendas.

A lot of the media in the West, especially the media in the West, just took those and ran for them and used that as kind of an alibi for everything that the U.S.

State Department, for what Joe Biden,

all of them, what they were doing

to a showcase.

Regardless, here's the problem.

Right.

The problem is here, and I'm sorry to cut you off, but we got to get to a network break.

The problem is we see what they've done to other people here at Carter Page, General Flynn.

You've seen how it works.

They don't have any credibility because they've played this hand too many times before.

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You're listening to Glenn Beck.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

We have James Rollins coming up.

He's an author, but

he's written a really important book about the pandemic years ago and did a lot of research and has a lot to say about what's going on right now.

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I just disagree with it.

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What you're about to hear is the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

This is the Glenn Best

Program.

Hello, America, and welcome to the program.

It is Thursday.

I want to lead with this.

Scientists are now telling us we're all going to die.

And I mean, we could die by the end of the summer.

Looks like we could be looking at at least a quarter of a million deaths by the end of July.

Or not.

Or not.

There's another study that says, no, not so much.

But the good thing is, is that we have freedom of speech where we can debate these things and talk about these things.

You know, until Google and

Twitter and Facebook ban us from having that conversation because the experts just know.

For instance, the experts just know that if you're touching a contaminated surface, you're going to get it.

Except now the CDC has come out and said, no, not so much, not so much.

So you got to know that you can get it by touching a cardboard box, you know, or plastic or not.

And I think we all know now what the truth is.

Also, face masks.

Remember, face masks didn't work.

Then we all have to wear a mask.

And now scientists are saying, well, not sure they're going to really work that well.

Good news is, we're all going to die.

So we got that going for us.

What's the truth?

We have somebody who's a fiction writer who's done a lot of research because truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.

I love these fiction authors authors who really do their homework.

We have James Rollins on, who wrote a book about a pandemic and also about the Chinese labs, might be able to give us some insight on what's coming and what we're dealing with.

James Rollins, in one minute.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

Oh, yeah.

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So we had James Rollins on

what I think a couple of days ago.

He's written a book called The Last Odyssey and I read it and loved it.

James is a friend, a longtime friend, and I haven't been doing a lot of author interviews.

This one, I asked James to come on because I read it and I love his style of writing.

Well, while he was on, he talked about a couple of other books that he wrote about

a pandemic and also about China.

And so he had some insight on that.

And I wanted to spend some more time with him on it.

The problem is, is when he was on, I didn't ask him the name of those books.

So So I'm guessing that one of them is The Demon Crown, which I just started reading a couple of days ago and I love.

So please, James, tell me I'm reading the right book.

The Demon Crown is all about

strange parasitic wasps that invade us from Asia, which is, you know, right now we're in the middle of the murder hornets.

So that is an issue.

Okay.

It's a good book.

Okay, so that's not the one about the pandemic.

It's really, I mean, you are so good.

It opens up,

let me just gush here for a second.

It opens up with the story of the guy who started the Smithsonian.

Is any of that stuff true about

his bones and everything else?

Totally true.

When you get to the end of the book, there's a what's true, what's not section, and I'm going to strip away, and you're going to find out exactly how much of that book is true.

It's pretty fun.

That's what I love to do with my fiction is to

give these surprising little details.

You have to stop calling it fiction.

Your books, and Brad Thor is like this as well.

It's faction.

It's fact and fiction mixed together, which is so great.

So, James, what is the book that you did research on?

Because you did a book on pandemic.

And I wanted to talk to you about the things that you learned doing the research.

Yep.

Basically, you know,

I have a lot of

opinions.

I think what I'm going to reveal over this next hour is going to shock some people.

It's going to scare the bejesus out of a few people, but hopefully I'll end on a hopeful note.

Again, why should you be taught?

Why should you listen to me?

We thriller writers,

we love to think outside the box.

You mentioned Brad.

Brad's a good friend of mine, too.

He participated in the Department of Homeland Security's analytic red sale unit, I believe it's called, where they brought in a group of writers to brainstorm about terrorist scenarios.

Well, now we're in COVID, and this is my wheelhouse because besides being a thriller writer, I'm also a veterinarian.

That's what's my wheelhouse.

Yeah, so that's where I started out before I was a writer.

I was a veterinarian, practiced for 15 years.

And we veterinarians, we study zoonotic diseases, diseases that pass from animals to humans.

And so I don't just like to think outside the box.

I like to search outside the box.

So I get those interesting details in a book that I'm going to surprise you with.

I'm always looking for that.

And I'm surprised what people will tell me is, you know, I'll preface an interview with a scientist or historian and say, hey, you know, I'm a New York Times best-selling author.

I'm working on this book.

Would you answer a few questions off the record?

And I'm surprised what they will tell me.

You know, general the neutral codes are what?

Let me get my pen and paper.

Right, right.

Just to give you a couple bona fides here is that, you know, the book that dealt with the

pandemic, my viral pandemic book, is a book called The Seventh Plague that dealt with

the return of some biblical plagues, big action adventure novel.

So I was already somewhat steeped in viral pandemic situations.

And then Glenn, you had me on my show, on your show

2015, I believe, for The Bone Labyrinth.

And that book dealt with Chinese labs.

And when I was doing my searching outside the box for that book,

it was revealed that there were serious safety and work standard issues in Chinese labs.

Now, after we had our talk back in 2015, back in 2018, there was a big expose

in, I believe it was the uh uh the the Wall Street Journal about uh the fact that there are lax standards in these Chinese labs.

And then you know so

again,

what happens now, we find out that you know something came possibly loose from from the from the from the Wuhan Institute, which I'd like to talk about in just a second.

I'll give you basically what I'd like to do today is talk about where this came from, because

I know where this virus came from

from doing my research and talking to some scientists.

I I know what we did wrong and right in the past.

I know what we need to be doing now.

I know what the future is going to look like.

So give you an example just to prove this.

Let's get to it.

I'm not talking about that on my phone.

Now I'm happy to send you a photo, a little screenshot of my phone.

Back in March, I was about to begin my book tour.

And the pandemic was beginning just to arise here in the States.

Things are beginning to close down.

I lost my book tour.

But I was still doing some flying just before everything was closing down.

I thought, gosh, you know, I better be prepared for this.

So I went and did some research.

I talked to some scientists.

I thought, you know,

if I get sick, what do I want them to give me?

So I did some research.

I found out that there actually is an antiviral drug produced by Gilead Sciences.

It was developed back in 2009.

They developed it actually to treat hepatitis C.

It did not work.

But they found out just by chance that it works against coronavirus.

So I thought, well, that's interesting.

Does anybody using it?

So I talked to some doctor friends of mine.

They said, you know, is anybody using this drug?

If they are, what's the success rate with it?

And I found out, yeah, there's a handful of doctors were using this drug, and they were having good success with it.

So that's cool.

So in my little phone, I wrote, remdesivir.

I put it in my phone.

If I'm ever intubated, if I'm ever hospitalized, I can't communicate.

I want to pick up my phone, scroll past Candy Crush, get to my notes section, and point, give me this drug.

So I thought, well, you know, I've done my thinking outside the box.

I searched out the box.

You know,

I'm prepared.

But I was expecting, you know, I kept waiting week after week.

Why isn't no one talking about remdesivir?

You know, we're hearing about hydroxychloroquine, we're hearing about other

vaccines, blah, blah, blah, blah.

No one's talking about remdesivir until about two weeks ago.

Then all of a sudden, everybody's talking about, oh, remdesivir is going to probably be the big major drug to treat this.

But I knew this back in March,

two months ago, just because I searched outside the box.

Right.

So I am going to talk about some other things I've learned from searching out of the box, if you'll bear with me.

Yes.

Okay.

So let me take a quick break for a minute, and then I come back, and then you start.

And

tell us what you found.

Tell us, we really want to know

what the future holds, what we're doing wrong, what we're doing right.

We have James Rollins on author of The Last Odyssey, which is disconnected from this entirely, but it is really a great book, and you should read it.

We'll continue in one minute.

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10 seconds station ID.

All right, James, James Rollins, author of The Last Odyssey.

Tell us the research that you

did for your book on the pandemic.

Well, actually, the book

I'm just finishing that's coming out next March is called The Savage Zone, and it's all about viruses.

So I was already sort of neck deep in research and viral research when this outbreak occurred.

I had virologists on my speed dial, a lot of immunologists, because I was doing my research.

And when this broke out, I thought, oh, I need to tweak my story.

You know, I can't write a viral story that comes out next year without incorporating the COVID situation.

So I went back and I, you know, I reconsulted them because I wanted to find out what I needed to do to tweak basically it's self-serving.

I need to make sure my novel was correct.

But at the same time, I found out some interesting things that is not being released to the media.

And I'll give you one example.

If we're going to understand where we're headed, we need to know where it started.

And there's a lot of theories about where did this virus originate?

Was it in the wet markets of Wuhan?

Was it from the lab?

Is it a bioengineered weapon?

As a thrill writer, it's titillating and exciting to think that this is a bioengineered weapon.

But as a veterinarian and looking at the scientific papers, talking to the scientists I know, ones that were looking at the genome of this virus, it's not.

I do not believe this was genetically manipulated.

I don't think it's a bioengineered weapon.

Whenever you genetically manipulate something, you leave fingerprints.

It's like pasting someone's head on a body in a photo or video, those deep fakes.

They look real, but a photo expert can look for those glitches, those little signs that reveal a falseness.

And they did that.

And so I'm satisfied this is not a bioengineered weapon.

Was it leaked?

Was it leaked out of the lab?

Maybe.

We talked before, like I said before, about the lax conditions and safety and work standards in Chinese facilities.

It's possible.

So again, again, I thought I'm going to do my research.

When I wrote the seventh plague in the bone labyrinth, I had a series of doctors in China that were willing to talk to me.

So I'm going to call one of these up because all this kind of you know, what is really going on in that lab?

You know, is it did this, you know bat that ended up transmitting this to the world did it start in the wet lab or did it I mean started the wet market did it start in the lab

and I'm not going to name this scientist because otherwise I think they're going to end up in an unmarked grave but she told me he or she told me I don't want to make a very bad spy by the way

she told me that no it she did not believe it leaked because it is a biosafety for lab but what she believes happened and what a lot of the scientists in in the Wuhan or the people in Wuhan believe is that that bat

was sold to the wet market from the lab

is that they were doing that this lab specializes in research in coronavirus and they do research on bat coronaviruses and there was that article in 2018 talking about the the

safety conditions in these bat coronavirus research labs at in Wuhan and they bring in a lot of bats because I need subject material but they don't use all the bats so oftentimes these bats end up being sold and so what she believes happened or he or she believes happened, is that these bats were sold from the lab to the wet market.

And I think that's important.

We need to know exactly where this virus came from to understand where we need to go with this.

Why bats?

Why are bats such vectors for disease?

Well, bats are flying mammals.

They're pretty much the only mammal that flies and to be able to for a mammal to be able to fly there they they basically have to have a supercharged metabolic engine.

You know, bats need to consume about 1,200 mosquito-sized insects every hour to fuel that jet engine.

Now that jet engine burns so hot and that it basically supercharges a bat's immune system.

And it's that immune system that keeps that viral load in check.

And that's very important if we're going to understand this disease, because this disease is not so much about the virus, it's about the immune system.

Now, you know, just give you an example, bats are vectors for rabies.

Again, me being a veterinarian, very conscious of the fact that you need to be careful with bats because you get bit, you can potentially get rabies.

Even though the bat might not be sick, they are able to hold rabies in check with this superimmune system.

Now, what happens if you stress out a bat?

That superimmune system breaks down, the virus multiplies.

So when you have these bats that are caged in a wet lab or caged and being shipped to a lab in Wuhan, you're having very stressed bats.

The virus overloads.

It's released into this market where then it spreads.

So that's what I believe happened: is that there was bats that were sold from this lab that ended up in the wet market.

They were stressed out.

Immune systems were weakened.

That's what created this whole mess.

So, James, is this also

when you say that they're supercharged immune systems?

It seems as though humans,

and I believe it was like this in 1918 as well, it's actually short-circuiting and making our immune system

go into overcharge mode.

Exactly.

You hit the nail on the head.

And not a lot of people are talking about the fact that the deadliness of this virus is not necessarily from the virus particle itself, it's from our body's reaction.

You know, there's a talk about, you know, are we in a war?

They use that war metaphor for what we're in.

And I don't think that's correct.

I think what we need to consider this is that we're in a siege.

Right now, we have no natural immunity against the virus.

We have little or no treatment.

We have no vaccines.

So our bodies, our cities, our countries are basically defenseless castles, and we're surrounded by an army that's entrenched around us.

And as we go forward during this talk, we sort of have to accept that there's no path forward, there's no strategy that doesn't involve people dying.

We just have to accept the fact that we're in this siege, and there's going to be casualties with this.

But where are we going to end up?

If the virus wins, humans go extinct.

Not going to happen.

This virus is not that fatal.

Just to say before I got a new program, I was looking at the news.

We're at this milestone of crossing

where we have 5 million cases being reported

and 328,000 deaths.

Now, the headlines are grisly, grim.

In my opinion, I'm like, great.

I'm glad that there's 55 million cases out there.

I don't want the headlines to read.

James Rollins wants everyone to die.

But it's good news.

And I think that number is a lot higher because again,

again, I'm not an expert, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to go, well, it's 325,000 deaths, and it's 5 million cases.

Let's do the math.

That would indicate that the mortality rate is 6.5%

if you take those two numbers.

You take 325%.

55%.

3 million.

6.5%.

The virus is not that deadly.

You won't find an epidemiologist that's going to say the mortality rate's that's high.

So if it's not, if that's the numbers are showing us in the news today, that indicates there's a lot more cases that are undiagnosed, which is, again, I think is great.

And I'll tell you why.

Because right now we're in what I call the simmering pot.

I've used this to describe to some friends of mine is that

to win this siege, we're going to need some defensive and offensive weapons.

The

offensive weapons, where we take the battle to the virus, that's going to be treatment.

Defensive, that means population-level immunity control, herd immunity that everybody talks about, either through natural transmission or vaccine.

So where are we going to go from here?

We've already done the social distancing, flattening the curve.

I'm surprised I have any hair on my head, by the way, as I keep pulling my hair out.

Like, why is no one talking about rubber?

You know, I kept hearing, and you'll you'll you'll see it on newsprints say the more you social distance right the sooner things will get back to normal

that is so wrong no the opposite actually is true by social distancing we're only slowing down the inevitable social distancing only

time

so so james i've i've got less than a minute here because i'm up against a network break but let me say this i've been saying since the beginning of this this is a virus we are all going to get it at one point or another.

We're still getting the pandemic Spanish flu of 1918 every year, a version of it.

This is not going away.

And

by us saying that we can't unlock the doors until we have a cure is true insanity.

I'd like to hear your comments on that and what's coming and what you think we should be doing coming up in just a minute.

James Rollins.

All right.

So we've been hearing from people that, you know, Paul Singer has said the market could get cut in half.

And I think that's true.

You know,

I don't have any money in the stock market right now for a reason, and that is

I'm not privy to what the Fed is buying.

And this isn't about companies or anything else.

This is about what the Fed is choosing to buy.

And I don't think that's a good recipe for wealth and a stable free market system.

You're also hearing from people like JPMorgan and Chase and also Goldman Sachs that they believe that gold will be at $3,000 an ounce next year.

I hope to God they're wrong because at $3,000 an ounce, the world is in chaos, absolute chaos.

I just bought more gold because I do believe that the world is headed towards insanity and it's running towards it faster and faster.

The people I trust to advise on gold and to buy my gold from Goldline, 1-866-Gold Line.

Call them now, 866Goldline.

And go to Blazetv.com/slash Glenn.

Use the promo code Glenn.

You get access to all the video from the show, and you get 10 bucks off as well.

Welcome to the Glenbeck program.

Just a program note: I am going on vacation today.

I will be back in a week, and

we have a lot of great stuff that our research department is going to be working on while I'm away, and you're not going to want to miss an episode.

And Stu's going to be filling in for me.

So, I mean,

and Pat.

Whatever.

It's the best we can do.

That'll save it.

All right.

All right.

We go back to James Rollins, who is with us.

He's a fiction writer.

His latest book is The Last Odyssey.

It's great.

You'll love it.

But we're talking about research that he did because he's written a couple of books and he's writing a new one for next year

on pandemic and viruses.

So, James, let me just go.

What the Swedes did was what we used to do.

What we did, quite honestly, in 1968 with the Hong Kong flu, we just went on with our lives and we got, we have herd immunity.

And it's the combination of herd immunity and vaccines that help us live with these things.

But we're not, we're going the opposite direction.

So which one's right?

Well, basically, when we're doing the social distancing, we were following the Chinese method, which was trying to strictly quarantine this and trying to control it that way.

But as I mentioned before, we were just delaying the inevitable.

And I can't say it's wrong because I think by having a short-term shutdown, you know, we were protecting the healthcare system.

We're allowing them, buying them time to build hospital capacity.

I think

we all were on board for that, but now we're past that.

We're past that.

We're totally wrong.

We're totally wrong.

If I've been in control, which I should have been, is we should only be in Glockdown for two weeks.

That's it.

And it should have said, by this date, we're opening up again.

Because I think people need that hat, that hang on that, you know, this is going to end on this date.

Rather than this nebulous, we don't know what's going to happen, it's confusing, different states are going to have different things.

No, two weeks, lockdown, get our ducks in a row, open back up.

And now the Swedes skipped that first step.

They didn't feel a need that they needed to lock down.

I think they were confident with their health care system and they could jump right into the, what I call a simmering pot.

They jumped right into where we need to be.

Now, I don't want to imply that

the Swedes are out there having this huge parties and festivals and going crazy.

They did some precautionary things and this is what I recommend that we need to look for.

While we're in the simmering pot and we're going to be here unfortunately a while, what the Swedes were doing, simple things.

If you can work from home, work from home.

Wash your hands.

Avoid non-essential travel.

They were restricting gatherings to 50 people or less.

They were saying if you're over 70, maybe we're going to ask you to self-isolate.

I'm not going to say you have to

self-isolate.

We're going to ask you to self-isolate.

But we are banning visitors from senior care homes.

Very simple things, very logical things that make sense.

It's been working great.

They're developing herd immunity very, very rapidly.

We need to do that.

But they are, but the numbers, hang on, let me ask Stu for the stats on Sweden because

the numbers are not looking good for Sweden.

Well, yeah, there's been some mixed results, I would say.

But I mean,

I think it kind of fits with the point you're making, James, on, you know, we're all going to get this eventually anyway, and they're trying to speed it up.

I mean, there's certainly the argument on the other side of, you know, if we do come up with an innovation, you're going to be upset that

you sped it up.

But there, you know, that is definitely something where, you know, when we're talking about something that's affecting this many people, you know,

we can try all these different approaches, but

it's going to cause its problems no matter what.

Right.

And, James, I mean, yeah,

I don't understand this.

Right.

And I don't understand this vaccine thing.

We don't stop the flu.

I mean, this is a coronavirus.

We're not going to, this thing is already mutated.

It's going to continue to mutate for the rest of human existence, most likely.

So I don't understand this idea that we're going to come up with something that's going to knock this out and it's going to be gone.

Is that possible?

No.

We're going to be in this for a long haul and regards to the vaccine don't count on it There was that Moderna study that was just done, published last week that caused the stock market to go up a thousand points.

I don't understand why it did that, except that it was based on optimism.

It was based on eight cases, eight people that showed a little bit of an antibody response to the vaccine.

So what?

Now, again, I'm pulling from my veterinary background.

There is a coronavaccine for dogs, but it only works against the GI, the enteric form of the disease.

There is also a respiratory coronavirus that affects dogs.

We don't have a vaccine against that.

We still have not been able to do that.

The human cold is is a coronavirus.

Still no vaccine.

Right.

And even if we look at that point,

we're talking about antibodies versus protective antibodies.

How long are those antibodies going to stick around?

If a vaccine is successful, it's going to take, you know, we're going to produce billions of these vaccines, and then we have to distribute them.

So we're talking about a long, long

time before we're going to get to that.

And even then, it's a limited success.

It's going to help.

It's a good crutch.

But what's going to be more important is, again, that herd immunity is a combination of herd immunity and vaccination that's going to probably pull us through this.

But

we're not going to vaccinate our way out of this all by itself.

We're going to have to have a significant amount of herd immunity before that happens.

So we need to get to that point.

We need to welcome limited transmission.

So when are we going to, when do you predict that we are going to have a treatment and

a reasonable plan?

How long is it going to take us if things all fell into place?

You know, I've got my my next book comes out next March.

If you have me back on your program, I'm going to make a bet with you.

We will not have a vaccine by next March.

I'm not going to bet against that.

Okay, well I'm not going to I'm not going to have you do anything.

If I'm wrong, I'll put $1,000 towards a charity of your choosing if there's a vaccine before next March.

But what I will tell you, a little bit of optimism, again, talking to scientists, talking to epidemiologists, talking to some doctors, talking to some immunologists, I believe by late summer, early fall, there's going to be a decent treatment regimen.

And it's going to be two-part.

One is going to be an antiviral drug to knock down the virus.

And I think it's going to be some version of remdesivir, if not remdesivir itself, some slightly modificated version of that.

And also it's going to be an immunosuppressive drug.

Because that is what's really killing us.

One-third of the people that die of COVID don't die because the virus has damaged their lungs.

They die because of what's called a cytokine storm, this overreaction of your immune system.

Basically, your body burns the house down to try to get rid of this bug.

And so most of the deaths are caused by

this

overreaction by your body.

So a part two of the drug cocktail that's going to possibly be out here by late summer, early fall, talking to the scientists I've been talking to, we'll see, and right now they're actually testing immunosuppressive drugs and doing, so hopefully by late summer we'll have a combination of an antiviral and an immunosuppressive drug that will, again, I don't think it's going to be

the cure-all, I don't think it's going to be the end of the matter, but it's going to definitely help reduce the number of deaths.

You know, it's amazing, James.

As I was looking at this at the very beginning, I started doing research on the 1918 pandemic.

I started reading some of the stuff that I'd read years ago.

And that was the second phase of the pandemic.

When it came back in the fall,

the doctors were horrified, didn't know at first what was going on, but it was that, I don't know how to pronounce it, but that storm you were talking about.

Yep.

That it was just blowing everybody's immune system up.

And that's what was killing people so quickly.

And

we know it now.

We all know it now.

All right.

I'm optimistic that by the fall, we'll have a treatment, you know, a year, possibly even longer, a vaccine, but I wouldn't count on that.

I would count on herd immunity.

Okay, so James, one of the things I like about fiction writers is you guys do

your own research.

Fiction has got to make sense.

Truth can, I mean, you couldn't write what's happening in the last two years in America and sell this thing 10 years ago.

Nobody would believe it.

Nobody believes it.

And so, right.

And fiction has got to make sense.

So you've got to have your facts down and think logically.

tell me

on the action adventure side of you

what do you think we're headed towards when we have no trust of the media no real authoritative voices

a a digital sector that is now working with the government to monitor, to spy, to whatever you want to call it, drones in the sky.

You have governors that are paying no attention to their citizens.

They're paying no attention to anything reasonable like you've been talking about here.

And they seem to be going for a power grab.

You have members of Congress that are openly saying that now's the time to pass the Green New Deal, et cetera, et cetera.

Where are we headed as a society?

It seems disastrous.

Well, first of all, I think we should always question the experts.

And behind the scenes, I've talked to epidemiologists, and most of them say, we don't know what's happening.

So you cannot put your trust in institutions and in some of

these experts out there.

We need

more control and

we're not.

That's the thing that I really wonder.

You know, we have...

We have probably a 25 to 30 percent unemployment rate.

We are just killing the entrepreneur, the small business person that in the Great Recession created 80% of all new jobs.

We're just killing them.

Nobody's listening.

There is just trouble on the horizon.

How do we keep things calm?

How do we weather this storm?

I think the key to doing that is recognizing that we have to let people take charge.

We need need to limit government.

You know, right now, you know, I'm in Nevada, but I'm right at the border with California, and they have an insatiable appetite for regulatory micromanagement.

And we're not going to micromanage our way out of the situation.

We need to let people take charge.

You know, businesses know best how to take care of businesses.

At this point, it's important that we protect the vulnerable, but we need to recognize that

there's individual risk tolerance.

When it comes to wearing face masks,

yes, I think face masks are important, but we have to recognize that certain individuals have different risk tolerances.

We need to consider the costs.

Schools, for example, they should be open.

You know, at this point, the

younger population is not vulnerable.

The British Medical Lancet Journal said that only 48 people out of the first 35,000 deaths were under the age of 25.

that only 0.04% required hospitalization.

There's no reason schools shouldn't be open.

There's no reason small businesses shouldn't be open.

We've basically shot ourselves in the foot by overreacting.

Basically, what our bodies are doing, this over-immune response that's burning down the house, we're doing it politically.

We're burning down this country in an attempt to think that we're doing good.

Is there anybody in the world that's not burning?

Are we all in the same boat burning the entire

world down to the ground as far as

economies?

Is there anybody who is not doing this?

Well, I mean, you look at the Swedes.

I think they're the perfect example of where we need to be.

They jump right into the simmering pot.

That's where we need to be.

We need to follow their example.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel.

You know, we see what the Swedes are doing.

Yes, there's more deaths, because of course there's going to be more deaths because they've waded out of their castles into that entrenched army.

But we're all going to have to do that.

And they did it early.

And yes, there's been more deaths, but at the same time, they're not destroying their country.

James Rollins, thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

You can follow James at jamesrollins.com.

His latest book

is

The Last Odyssey, which is great.

If you've never read James Rollins' book, you can pick him up wherever, but once you read one, you're going to end up reading all of them.

He tells fascinating stories that mix history with today.

They're just, they're fantastic.

You're one of my favorite writers, James.

Thanks for being on, and

you bet we'll talk again.

The Last Odyssey by James Rollins, which has nothing to do with coronavirus, but

you're, I mean, this show is just, I'm, look, I'm insane, okay?

It's hard to follow this show.

I get it.

I get it.

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This is the Glenbeck program.

This is the Glenbeck program.

Welcome to the program.

It's right before I go on vacation.

There's a couple of stories that

we just haven't gotten to that I really want to.

Did you see the two guys that

went into

Rob a store and were wearing watermelon masks?

Did you see this?

It's a good idea.

I mean,

you're recycling.

Right.

I mean, hopefully you've had a good meal, you know, or maybe a little dessert, and you cut that watermelon in half.

You got half for your partner, half for you.

You just cut out eye holes in the watermelon, and that's what they were wearing.

I don't know if anybody saw this, but what was interesting to me is what they were charged with.

They were charged with

now, think of this in COVID-19.

They were charged with wearing a mask while committing a larceny.

So,

maybe pretty much anybody now.

You know, if you do something wrong, immediately remove your mask or you'll get extra time for wearing a mask.

Not really the message we want to send right now.

No.

I've been telling you the government, they'll make you into a criminal one way or another.

One way or another.

Can watermelons protect against COVID-19?

I don't know, but I'm going to make a watermelon mask because it sounds delicious.

I'll see you in about a week.

Going on vacation.

God bless.

Stay safe.