Ep 65 | Smeared by the DNC and FBI, Carter Page is Unafraid to Fight Back | The Glenn Beck Podcast

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By the end of January 2017, my guest today was under investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network.

This was a massive operation that spanned more than than three years and cost millions of dollars.

And in the end, he was not accused of one single crime.

I will tell you that in the course of the last few years, I have been conflicted.

Is he a good guy?

Is he a bad guy?

At first, I was convinced he was guilty, and then I wasn't so sure, and then I was convinced again, and then I wasn't sure.

Most of our trusted institutions were telling us that this is a bad guy.

Media were in lockstep.

This is a foreign agent.

But as the facts started to come out and we began began to do our homework and more and more things were released, we began to realize that something truly criminal had occurred.

But not from him.

Not the one we originally thought.

Our government, in collusion with agencies and the media, did do something criminal.

They destroyed an American citizen.

On this episode of the podcast, the man that found himself directly in the crosshairs of the deep state, it all began with the lies about Carter page

you've been called a lot of things

a lot

uh you were kind of a fugitive if you will

um

And one of the things that was said about you, and I think this is the kindest thing that could have been said, or they did say, was

the Russians didn't even want you because you were too stupid.

Looking at your history, you are anything but stupid.

You have your master's, you have a PhD,

you were in the top 10% of your class at the Naval Academy.

Top 5%, actually, but yeah, anyway, sorry.

10 is still a big deal for me.

Top five.

I mean, you were anything, and you're successful.

You were COO of Merrill merrill lynch

um

is is there anything out there about you that's true

it's amazing the impact of the media because people can take little snippets of information and totally twist and spin it in a way which is completely false and you know an entirely different reality.

You were five years naval intelligence?

A naval officer, but I worked with intelligence in many contexts.

So

you know the world of intelligence.

You know the spy game.

How shocking was it to you?

A guy who's served in the military actually helped put bad guys who were trying to

bring you in as a russian spy at one point you turn that whole situation around you expose bad guys with the government you become an informant for the government um

you how were you

it was the intelligence agencies that you were working with and that you were a part of for a long time that turned this whole thing around

and you're a pawn and you're a nobody because they're after donald Trump.

How do you process that?

Well, I process it through a lot of that same experience, right?

My first time ever at CIA headquarters was over a quarter

century ago and 1993, 1994.

I think I should shave my head because you look too young for a quarter century ago.

But anyway, well, you know,

that institution, the CIA,

it was created with around the start of the Cold War right so their whole raison d'être is to

you know Russia is bad and we're kind of you know they they've they sort of were built upon that foundational premise right

so and you know they've they've adapted to a certain extent over time But there has always been sort of an institutional

assumption, a lot of institutional assumptions, often not fully reflective of reality

to various different degrees at various points in time.

But that's been a major,

that is where, you know, you ask about it being a surprise.

I've had these debates with very high-level people and, you know, mid-level people and, you know, agents on the ground in the CIA, as well as the FBI.

And, you know, I, like candidate Trump, had a different worldview, a different worldview, kind of based upon experience and, you know, under Russia.

Yes.

Yeah.

And again,

this is the foundation upon which this institution was, to a large extent, created.

Obviously, you know, it's a global, they have a global footprint and a global, you know, operations and analysis on the one hand, but when it, when you kind of go back to day one of that institution, what the Dulles brothers were involved in, and a lot of kind of the

original founders, if you will,

that's, you know.

So

I know that to be true.

However,

you...

You have intelligence people now at the heads of our intelligence agency, Clapper and all those people, that also say that, you know, the Muslim Brotherhood is largely secular.

And they're, I mean, they have a completely different worldview of things.

The Soviets were an enemy.

The Russians are, Russian people are not our enemy.

But Putin is, you know, he's a bad guy.

And you have, you know, some really bad oligarchs in Russia.

You agree with that, right?

It's another one of these situations, Glenn, where if I don't agree with it then you kind of people come back so let me let me give you an example on that president trump his interview with o'reilly a year old colleague you know this is something you know and he had he was sort of asked a similar question and you know he kind of punched back a little bit and i think

again

Sort of the reasons I was a centerpiece in terms of them coming after me is a desire to try to find new solutions.

Look, nobody is perfect.

I'm not perfect.

You're not perfect.

Anyone.

Is Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin perfect?

Absolutely not.

But nonetheless, there are a lot of constructive things that can be done if you look for new approaches.

And let me tell you something.

As a person who spent, you know, years living in Moscow and actually quite a bit of time in 2016.

I made two trips over there in July of 2016 and in December.

There are a lot of people and there's a lot of momentum for trying to find new solutions.

I'm not doubting that.

At all levels of the government and

all aspects of society as well.

There are also people that are still looking to crush the United States, just like there are hawks over here that would like to go in.

I mean, you know, the night that Trump bombed

or

Iran bombed,

you know, our troops, I heard a lot of people on the right going, we've got to go in and take their oil fields and everything.

And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

What?

So I know there are hawks on both sides that just think this is still 1956 or 51 or whatever it is.

But go ahead.

Well, it's, you know, there's kind of hawks, you know, hawks versus dove issues.

I think it's a little bit of a separate issue.

And I think you can kind of achieve things on both front vis-a-vis

the broader question, which we were, you know, first talking about of relationships.

Yeah.

Right.

And I look, I think this is similarly another guy who's

still currently dealing with

a lot of things right now is General Flynn.

Right.

And he had, I think, I don't want to misquote him, but one of the premises of his worldview and his sort of national security strategy,

you know, his concepts that he was, he's talked about and has written about going back many years, is these,

this country, Russia, can be an ally in terms of that exact,

you know, in a Middle East context and a lot of other contexts.

So

I wasn't planning on going here, but I have to just ask this question.

But you do believe that the Russians, because they announced this beforehand, I was talking about this in 2014, that they wanted to disrupt our elections.

I don't think they wanted to have Trump or Clinton.

They don't care.

They just would like to sow the seeds of chaos,

at least.

you know, some of them, as the government.

And

we have evidence that they did that.

You

agree with that.

Let me tell you about the evidence I know for sure and what we've been talking about in terms of these FISA warrants.

The evidence we have is that a lot of this,

the impact in meddling.

I'm not saying impact.

I'm saying that that was their intent.

I'm not saying that they did meddle or they changed anything.

What I'm saying is

we've done a better job on sowing chaos inside of our own country by using a failed attempt to influence our election.

And I think they kind of knew.

I think Putin's really smart.

I think he kind of knew all I have to do is do these little things and they'll eat it up.

The Democrats,

when did they start hating Russia?

They hated Donald Trump.

They hated Donald Trump.

And we've done the damage.

I'm not saying they threw the election.

I'm saying they put enough out, and then our media, and we just consumed it in a way of doing the damage they couldn't do.

Well, let's be specific, right?

There, on

early January, two weeks before the inauguration, they had this Director of National Intelligence Russia report, which came out.

Clapper, Comey, Brennan, these guys, you know, now big sort of media stars or, you know, book authors from Mr.

Comey.

And there were two main conclusions in broad terms

in that report.

Number one,

there was hacking related to the election.

And the other part, and it's kind of towards the end, although it's parts of it are, there's an appendix at the end of

that document,

which talks about government propaganda, right?

In each each of those two,

those two allegations, that is precisely what the DNC and the Obama administration did to the Trump campaign.

And

in conjunction, you know,

that was the other part of this to me: is

Russia played a role.

They stated it in advance what they were going to do.

And

the DNC, and Trump was not connected to any of that.

And the DNC was connected to,

I think, stuff that was much worse in the long run with the Ukrainians.

You know, anybody who could cause chaos wants to cause chaos, especially if it's in their own interest.

It was in the, they thought, the interest of the Ukrainians to get Hillary Clinton in.

So they'll help any way they want.

And

the former administration was there.

Everything they said Donald Trump was doing,

they were doing.

Donald Trump was not.

Russia was trying to interfere, but not coordinating with a campaign.

These people in Ukraine were.

Is that accurate?

You know, I've spent a fair amount of time in Ukraine.

I have not, I don't, I'm always very cautious, Glenn,

of talking about things that I don't really know and have all the facts about.

And, you know, look, I think this is part of the reason what we see about

with respect to this impeachment thing right now, because there's so much confusion and chaos and incomplete information, right?

A lot of this, you know, I think the jury's still out.

You know, we don't, there's a lot more that we need to know.

And, you know, we're even

as

sort of these pieces are starting to come together and we start getting some of this information, I think we may have a better sense of things.

So I'm always very cautious about, you know, coming to conclusions.

All I do know is, you know, in a Russia context, and again, going back to that DNI report two weeks before the inauguration, which was effectively a U.S.

government/slash Obama administration smear campaign against President Trump or President-elect Trump,

you know, in the lead up to him,

you know, being sworn in.

Let's start

with the day it got real for you.

The day Isakoff and

Yahoo comes out with a story that says you're a Russian plant, you're a Russian spy, you have connections with the Kremlin, you're part of this coordination, you're

you are a bad guy.

You know that's not true.

Do your friends and family react the same way?

Well, it's interesting.

Throughout several months prior, you know, it became real in a public context.

I became a public figure that day.

I never had a Wikipedia page.

You know, within hours of this, you know,

they have a Wikipedia page on the, you know, using that as the basis, right?

This is kind of, you know, one of the first, you know, this is the defining moment of this, you know, previously completely unknown guy, right?

But I think it's important, you know, to, and it speaks to your point a little bit.

The months prior, I actually got a lot of phone calls from journalists.

First one was with the Wall Street Journal.

Someone from the Wall Street Journal calls me back in July asking about these same false allegations, which the DNC's consultants were trying to spread to try to, you know, this quote-unquote opposition research against then-candidate Trump.

And the calls continued over the following months.

Washington Post.

Nobody reports on it.

No one reports on it.

Yes.

Because they can't verify anymore.

Well, number one, not verify.

But, you know, in fairness to those other media organizations, whether it's the Wall Street Journal, even New York Times and the the Washington Post, CNN, when they're asking me about this, you know, they, it's,

they're being professional journalists, you know, to uh maybe, you know, again, like we were saying, there's no one's perfect, but they took steps to try to, um, you know, do things in a professional way.

And this guy, uh, Mr.

Isakoff, you know, never talked to him?

And I never, I never spoken with him.

He never, he never reached out to me.

He left me a couple voicemails.

No, just saying, you know, can you call me back type of thing?

But I had no idea.

And I'm, again, I'm a private figure.

I'm just a little

volunteer.

The guy in terms of positive impact on the cam on any presidential campaign, someone who's

putting

signs on lawns in Texas or Missouri or anywhere has a much more positive impact than a guy who's sort of just a member of this committee.

So

the funny thing, so

there's tons of angles, but yeah.

But if it's, but I mean, on that day,

you know, I,

again,

completely unknown person, I start getting tons of calls from the media.

right

um just

asking me about uh about these false allegations.

And it just sort of became a downward spiral.

And my hope,

again, sort of the private figure, sort of behind the scenes kind of guy that I was, my hope is that it would just blow over.

So I kind of, you know, I just said, well,

kind of a lot of no comments, some, you know, comments on background or sort of off the record that, you know, use your common sense.

This is just, you know, ridiculous on the face.

And

I kind of tried to uh go underground a little bit you know and again to your point

I there are a lot of questions um from family you know even family people I was close with

you know what's going on here right I mean there's a certain assumption about the media that if they're kind of throwing out these very serious allegations there's got to be something to it there's got to be something somewhere you know So

it just creates doubt.

And I think the thing that was the most serious element of all this is, again,

you talk about divisive forces in politics.

This, you know, exactly to your point, there are some that are going to be inclined to believe this.

There are some that are going to be, you know, realize that it's completely frivolous on its face.

But, you know, you have to,

to the extent that those people who are the believers of the Russia collusion false story,

that becomes an issue when

they want to kind of take law into their own hands.

And I never meaning, meaning a lot of death threats, terror threats that I got starting, you know, right around that time.

Was there ever a point to where

you realized

I'm really pretty alone and there's no one really writing into my defense?

And

was there ever just a moment where you thought,

I'm destroyed for the rest of my life.

I won't get it back.

The bigger costs is I always think about the damage that this story is doing to our country, to our institutions, to our democracy, really.

That's awfully noble.

I mean, I've gone through, and I haven't gone through what you've gone through, but

I've been, I have a Wikipedia page too.

For sure.

And even trying to change my own Wikipedia page and go, well, what's your evidence?

It's me.

That's my evidence.

It's me.

I gave up a long time.

I know I'm with you.

Yeah, we do.

But

even as much as I'm focused on that, there are times when I just think,

this is not worth it because you're not going to beat it.

You're not going to win.

It's too big.

Nobody gives a crap.

There isn't a single person in journalism that actually wants to know the truth.

And you...

I go from, you know, times of

righteous indignation to, I'm just, I'm going to go to the mountains and I'm just, I don't care anymore.

I don't care.

Because if people won't stand up and do their own homework enough and use some common sense, there's no saving them anyway.

Yeah.

Well, look, I mean, I think there's, there's a lot of different motivations for people in terms of the reasons that they do things they do and

the desire, the commitment to kind of do in the end of the day, whatever it takes.

And

from, you know,

I'm just getting to know you now, but my sense is we kind of come at it from a very similar perspective of you know as one of the sole people who can help fix this mess.

And,

you know, anything you can do to help create some semblance of integrity within our society and understanding is invaluable.

And at the end of the day, you know, despite the costs, it makes it, it makes it all worth it.

Because there is something bigger than just us.

Okay.

I just, I don't think I've, I don't think I've ever met anybody who

is the Kerry Grant character in North by Northwest.

I don't know if you've ever seen that movie.

I don't think so.

You should watch it.

He's an average everyday guy.

They mistake him for somebody else.

The Russians do.

And they think he's a spy.

And he's just, he's like, no, no, no, no, and everybody's after him.

The police is after him, everybody's after him.

The CIA knows

that's not him, but they can't let on because they're going to figure out the CIA's real plan.

So Carrie Grant is being destroyed by everybody.

Nobody's standing up.

Between

that being your kind of character, at least in my head, and

the awesome betrayal of your country uh and your fellow intelligence people and the fbi

i i have a hard time getting my arms around that but

let's stake stick to the story here i've not heard

i've not heard the story of

i know they tried to recruit you years ago as you know when you were over in russia not true

this is a

again more spin right?

People are looking.

Some of these cases which have now been disclosed by government operatives trying to smear me as a way to damaging candidate, president-elect, and President Trump,

there's so much more to the story.

And

I have never been, quote-unquote, recruited.

I think some of these case studies, which have been in the Mueller Mueller report and

other things that are very misleading,

you know,

these individuals, these alleged Russian agents,

a couple of guys I, you know, would have...

casual conversations with.

No big deal.

No one ever asked me to do anything.

No one in Russia ever asked me to do anything unethical, illegal, or,

really in support of their government as a agent or anything along those lines.

We're just having friendly conversations.

And there's a lot of elements to the First Amendment of the U.S.

Constitution.

Freedom of the press, I think, is the most well-known, but there's also freedom of speech and

freedom of association.

And so

If I'm having a conversation with someone, you know, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I've never been asked to do anything unethical, illegal, or questionable in any way by any of these individuals.

And so, you know.

Okay, so that's where that left.

Yeah.

So then what about the part of the story where you go to the FBI and you say, hey, I can help you catch some bad guys.

Truth to that one?

Well,

yes and no.

There is a,

again, I had a long-standing relationship with people, you know within both the FBI and CIA

and I was someone who's

going back to kind of the the news and related you know telling the truth I'm someone who has definitive insights of what's happening in the Middle East in Russia in China a lot of you know worldwide so we had a we had a dialogue um and so you know it's less I mean again these these two specific

quote-unquote Russian agents who are, you know, portrayed in the Mueller report very incompletely and in many ways misleading and in some instances false information.

You know,

they're just conversations I had.

And, you know, again, I was a supporting

source.

for the U.S.

intelligence community.

And, you know, it's unfortunate that, again, bearing in mind the original impetus for the creation of the CIA and, you know, a lot of what the FBI did throughout the original Cold War is

going after Russian bad guys.

So to the extent someone can give some context and some, you know, the full perspective.

It's not unusual for the CIA or FBI when you are going to meet with high-level business people in other countries.

This is common that they would ask you just for perspective, right?

Well, what's interesting about it is,

you know,

what's different about my situation is typically, you know, yes, you're absolutely right that, you know, that happens a fair amount of times or, you know, on some levels.

However,

what is different is

U.S.

government sources leaking information about that support of individuals, right?

Particularly in a negative context, in a way which, as we've been talking about, is very misleading.

So, I mean, one great example I like to cite is

back when

George H.W.

Bush, the first President Bush, was

you know, in an earlier stage of his

career

at the highest levels.

I think it was around his presidential campaign or or something like that.

He had actually been a, you know, he had done, similar to me, he'd be an international business guy focused on the energy sector.

So, and he would have some meetings with people in Latin America.

And, you know, same as I was doing

with my

work worldwide, Russia, China, the Middle East.

you know, I would, I would provide CIA with some insights.

But what's interesting is when that news came up during his presidential campaign,

I forget exactly how he handled it, but it was always no comment.

He never

really was

very forthcoming about that.

And I never wanted to be either.

But unfortunately, when

you have this false story,

you know, surrounding this collusion between the intelligence uh community fbi cia and the mainstream media you gotta you know again you gotta set this set the records for the other

that's no doubt in your mind that they all colluded together well i i think it's it's apparent on the face i i again

uh

the

look i think one of the biggest examples is the dnc's consultants you know the the bought and paid for consultants who also had

relationships or contractual relationships,

even with the FBI.

We know Christopher Steele was paid, and this is through a Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act findings

within the last few years.

He was paid 11 times by the FBI.

in the year 2016.

So while he's being paid by the DNC.

Right.

Right.

And while and their law and their law firm, Perkins Cooey.

And at the same time, the FBI decides to cut him off as a source because he's leaking things to the press.

Yes.

And then they go through somebody else in the Justice Department.

And the FBI, somebody in the FBI says, hey, if you meet with him, you know, let us know what's going on.

I mean, they're still getting information.

So

what does that mean to you?

Is our Justice Department, FBI, CIA, is it fundamentally broken?

I think it is.

Well, I think elements of it are.

And I think, you know, there are some people, a small handful of people at the highest levels, both within DOJ and, frankly, in the White House, who are trying to fix this situation.

But, you know, there's a lot of institutional momentum and, you know, a lot of bad actors.

And these people are individuals who have worked together going back many years or even decades, right?

So,

you know, you look out for

your brethren, if you will.

And you look out, you watch each other's backs.

Exactly.

So

with the Russians,

It seems even more clear

to me

if you hadn't been recruited

or attempted to recruit,

that the FISA warrant for you is even weaker than I thought it was.

So let's go through the FISA warrant.

What did they accuse you of to the judges?

Well, I think the most interesting element of it is it's been partially declassified, right?

You know, it's about 400 pages, you know, give or take, 100 pages for each of the, you know, the first warrant in October 2016, just a couple weeks before the election, right?

And then the renewals right during the transition team in January of 2017, and then two

in

April and June of 2017.

So

the problem,

the reason why it's difficult to answer your question is a lot of that remains blacked out, you know, redacted.

There are, you know.

Do you see it?

I've never seen it.

And the problem, and this is, you know, some of the, it speaks to a part of the illegality of all this.

There is, and, you know, we've talked about the Watergate situation, you know, one,

around the same time when that whole scandal was going on, there was a law passed by the U.S.

Congress, the Privacy Act of 1974.

This is, it's similar to FOIA, Freedom of Information Act in many ways, which the press

and other

private citizens can use to try to get government information.

The difference of Privacy Act is if

the information is actually about the individual.

So if the government holds what's known as quote unquote a system of records about you, you're supposed, you have the right as you know, as defined by law to review that information, number one,

and also

comment and request changes, right?

I have never been given that opportunity whatsoever.

And I have asked that going back to May of 2017.

I put in a request to the DOJ, to the FBI, and to national security agencies.

When did you know that a secret court had been convened about you

and that everything you did, read, saw, typed, talked to was being monitored?

You know,

I got some glimpses of it.

And, you know, there were some somewhat spec, what seemed to be somewhat speculative news reports in, you know, right before the election.

Again, this is part of the election interference campaign of, oh, there's something shady going on and the intelligence community is looking into it,

which is totally based on, you know, falsehoods, spins, spin, and,

you know, biased information, you know.

And it had to be released by government.

Somebody.

Yeah.

But again, you know, there's released and, you know, again, from

whispered or, you know, who exactly did what, we're still waiting to find out, you know.

So

what was your first inkling that you were

being

monitored?

And when did you actually know?

Well, I think, you know, probably the most definitive

report about this was in April of 2017.

And that's, that's the first time that you were like, oh my gosh, they've been watching me.

So, well, it's, you know, bin is a past tense.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so April, well, it's.

They are watching me.

But that was my, but the bin was my assumption, right?

And I actually asked in,

you know, the month before in March of 2017, I had, you know, about 10 plus hours of beatings with the FBI, with FBI agents.

I mean,

how, I know they weren't actual, I hope they weren't actual beatings, but what

meetings, I'm sorry, meetings,

okay, all right, all right.

Well,

interrogations or meetings, it's funny you say that, beatings.

Literally, I would I presented the FBI agents in March of 2017 with evidence of the death threats that I was getting, including, and I've I file, you know, I've provided this in some court filings that I've submitted, but

in March, on March 20th, 2017,

literally,

I get this voicemail

talking about beating me over my head

with a baseball bat.

So yes, I guess inadvertently I meant meetings, but we did talk about

the beating threats, right?

And a lot of other death threats, getting shot, et cetera.

So were these meetings that they asked for?

Were they interrogating you or you asked for?

Well, I had a long, it's funny.

Right when this defamatory news article that the DNC and their consultants were trying to place

and their associates were trying to place in the media throughout the summer of 2016, which is finally published on Friday, September 23rd, 2016, I sent a letter to then FBI Director James Comey.

I emailed him a one-page letter just explaining how ridiculous this whole thing was.

And I had asked in that letter, or I had, you know, I had offered, you know, this is, it's obvious how ridiculous these false allegations, which have been, you know, spread in the media by the Democrats

are.

I think anyone with any common sense would understand that.

If you have any questions and you don't agree, or if I can provide any other information, as I've done, you know, going back many, many years to both the FBI and CIA, give me a call.

Not only did they not call Glenn,

just a couple of weeks later, they, you know, used the DNC consultant

to get this fraudulent FISA approved.

And then they did it again in January of 2017.

So it wasn't until many months later, close to, you know, over five months later, that in early March, one of the FBI, you know, a pair of FBI agents kind of walk up to me unannounced

and, you know, say, well, we'd like to talk to you.

And they had a copy of that letter, you know, over five months later while they're using this defamatory information spread by the Democrats and also, you know, spread throughout the mainstream media.

But you didn't know about the Pfizer Co.

You didn't know what they were doing.

Well, they, they, again, there were some kind of somewhat speculative reports in, you know, right before the election.

But you know, look,

I say, you know,

there's still a lot I don't know right now.

There's still a lot you don't know.

You know, and you're people like you who have been really trying to dig hard to get this information on through

any way possible in terms of asking the right questions, you know, we're still all getting blocked.

So, yes, you know, there was some hard evidence that we're getting.

We got a 480-page Inspector General report, which came out in December of 2019, But, you know, it's the tip of the iceberg.

There's so much more.

I guess I'm asking, is it kind of like

of a friend who

thought this weekend that he had cancer?

Thought I spent a lot of time with him this last weekend.

I'm sorry.

Talking through that.

And he would go through periods of real despair and then real hope.

And

because I've been through this before,

I wondered how how he was going to react once he got the news one way or another.

Because there's something about not knowing for sure that gives you a little bit of hope.

You know what I mean?

So is it kind of like that moment when you find out that the government has

been reading everything, been watching everything, that

you had a little bit of hope that maybe that's not really going on?

Glenn, look,

what I know for sure and what I've known for sure for over three years already is using your analogy, there is a serious cancer that our country is suffering from, based, you know, which started with this metastasizing of the Russia collusion hoax.

To me, you know, in answer to your question, that is the biggest

problem and, you know, thing at the forefront of my mind.

There's a lot of things that I'm starting to do to, you know,

help

find a cure, if you will,

for both myself and for our entire country.

Litigation is one of those things.

Absolutely.

Your confidence level?

I'm very confident that my case is incredibly strong.

The thing which sometimes gives me a little bit of caution is I know what's been done in federal courts by false filings by U.S.

Department of Justice and private institutions, the DNC and media organizations in terms of some of my initial battles.

So,

and look, I mean, that's kind of

that caution is, you know, reason for that caution is a key storyline

in the Inspector General report, right?

Those 17 errors and omissions.

So, what, you know, the caution, you know, I know my case, if we're kind of basing things exactly upon the facts and, you know, what actually happened, I have the strongest case in the world.

The challenge becomes when you have really dishonest people hiding in the murk of secrecy,

spinning and playing games.

So I went,

I had to go to court as I was being sued,

and

I had documents, federal documents that were given to me by a federal agent

who said, this has got to be exposed.

I exposed it.

What was the date, by the way?

Or year.

What year?

Oh,

it's during the Obama administration.

That's my main question.

So

I had the documents, had them, and showed that

the government was absolutely lying and protecting their

agenda.

Yes.

And the cost of it was very high.

Well,

I am taken to court and

the government shows up and there are six White House attorneys

and they say in open court, We will never release these documents.

And the court orders them to release them not going to do it they openly defy in open court we're not going to release them

then finally they have to release them and we had a stack of papers about that we all of it redacted okay except a couple of words here and there and our documents you could open up and go okay see plate 23 see that word that word's there

It didn't help.

If the government wants to destroy you and wants you to lose,

who are you going to?

There's no higher court.

Who are you going to?

So

you've seen this apparatus.

You've seen what they have.

This is Jason Bourne stuff where you're like, you know what I mean?

And people don't think that those things are real, but they are.

That kind of stuff happens when you're playing ball at a global level.

Yes.

Too much power to lose here.

What

gives you the Boy Scout

hope, Mr.

Eagle Scout,

that

justice will be done for you and America?

I think there's a lot of momentum right now.

Number one,

again, sort of consistent with what he's done since he came down the elevator at Trump Tower back in 2015.

The president is committed to really making America great again, and this is a key part of it, right?

But

is he hated?

My thought originally was he was really truly hated

by

the press and by

the other candidates because he was so unconventional.

He wasn't held to any of the same standards.

He could say crazy things, get away with it.

He was elected.

But my perspective now is he's hated by the power in Washington so much because whether he intends to or not,

he's just exploding all over the place and it's exposing

this entire sick twisted game that's been played in Washington, which is more accurate.

I think they're both accurate and I think there's a

coalition, if you will, between the bad actors in each of those categories that you're

you're alluding to.

Particularly in a Washington context, a lot of those Washington bad actors who have been there for a long time

know how to manipulate the system on the other side of that equation.

So

it's a vicious circle, if you will.

What did you know about Christopher Steele before?

It's an important question,

and it actually ties together a lot lot of the things you're alluding to.

I found out in September of 2016 that the Democrats had hired some

opposition consultants to dig up dirt on then-candidate Trump, including myself.

And I knew that there was some entities and individuals in London who were working on this.

So,

again, and we started to talk about what happened in that transition period between, you know, when I took a leave of absence from the

campaign and

the weekend after that

defamatory news report in September 2016.

But I actually

Again, when I'm having all these death threats,

I went to South Africa because, you know, it was one, you know, I've done some work there before.

I've spent some time there.

I have colleagues.

And I'm like, well, maybe I can be safe here when I'm having all these death threats.

And so from South Africa in

late October 2016,

there is a commission, the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, does an election monitoring in countries around the world.

And they assess election interference in a lot of countries.

Typically, you know, more problematic in some third world than others.

But, you know, there was an election monitor with hundreds of monitors doing this in the United States for the 2016 election.

I sent

a letter, a protest letter or kind of notification of the human rights abuses in

while I was down there in South Africa.

I emailed it to the president or the president in office, the chairman, the head of the OSCE,

who's now actually the president of Germany,

as well as the kind of the main person on the ground, a British

lady.

What kind of abuses did you see?

Well, to the point, that's where I'm kind of leading with this.

I kind of explained

this hoax,

which was just starting, similar to what I explained to Mr.

mr commy um several weeks earlier in the in the wake of this defamatory report but um i explained that to them and i also mentioned there is a line in there it's about a four or five page letter but a line in there saying that you know i understand that there are uh operatives in london uh who have been hired and i allude to the fact that they're you know working in concert uh with a law firm and so i notified the

OSCE, this international organization, about this terrible election interference campaign to try to undermine President or candidate Trump and American democracy.

And the response?

You know, I think someone may have asked them about it.

They ended up doing a little report right around the time of the election, kind of in the days following.

And they're like, well,

and it's funny.

I believe the response was words to the effect of, well, this is something that needs to be figured out by

people domestically.

They're like, you know, long story short, they gave the message of, you know, we're not going to

wade into this

big story.

Okay, so let me go through something in the Mueller report.

The investigation did not establish that Page coordinated with Russian government in its efforts to interfere with the 2016 presidential election.

However, with incomplete evidence or testimony about who Page may have met or communicated with in Moscow, his activities in Russia, as described in his emails with the Trump campaign, were not fully explained.

What does that mean?

It's more spin, right?

The three Democrat operatives who interrogated me

in front of the grand jury,

you know, they had sort of the similar tone and just a really nasty approach by all of them.

And look, I mean, there's just tremendous bias and tremendous spin, right?

The irony of that statement you just made, Red Glenn, was

think about it.

I was under surveillance for a year.

They've gone through everything.

Everything, you know,

and

they couldn't find anything because nothing existed, but they couldn't find anything to advance their false, you know, DNC crafted storyline.

So just kind of throw some more final dirt as you're kind of walking out the door and going back to your big-time law firms and, you know, spinning that to advance your personal career at the cost of myself, but so many others.

And again, I always bear in mind with this fake Mueller report that, you know, the uh

obviously they have a lot of hatred for me and a lot of other Trump, you know, members of the Trump movement.

But at the end of the day, they really just hate our president right now.

Did you ever come across any of them, any of them, at any level, that were like,

dude, I'm sorry to have to ask you this, or I think, you know, was there any indication anyone

at any time was seeing the abuse that from the inside?

Well, that that's sort of the sad part about it, Glenn, because I

again, so and it's in the Mueller report that I had five meetings with the FBI in March of 2017, you know,

a couple months after the inauguration.

And towards the end of those five meetings, you know, they're grilling me pretty hard.

You know, these are kind of up to close to three hours or, you know.

you know, long sessions.

And I always brought my laptop to those sessions.

And I would kind of, I'd bring like a little thumb drive to kind of give them more and more documents.

Little did I know that they had already hacked, they hacked my computers and, you know, had been wiretapping me for many months.

So, you know, I kind of, the 20 bucks or whatever I spent on that USB drive,

they laughed.

Well, no, they didn't laugh.

They're good kind of, you know,

to themselves when they got it.

Perhaps.

But, you know, and this is kind of where I'm going with this.

Towards the end of those meetings, they said to me, well,

you know, originally it was kind of asking me direct questions.

And then,

again, it's just so ridiculous on the face.

A few times they would say,

you know, our bosses want

us to ask this, right?

You know, and this is, you know,

then

the director was Mr.

Comey and the deputy director was, you know, McCabe.

And so, you know,

I understood that, you know, maybe these are, you know, there's a lot of great people in the FBI as well as the CIA and, you know, throughout our government.

But, you know,

the bigger

issue is I know there was kind of high-level operatives who are very partisan and political, who are really just trying to

interfere in our election, but also cause as much damage as possible to President Trump in the

beginning then and, you know, in the years since, as we've unfortunately seen.

My opinion of Donald Trump has changed an awful lot

in some regard.

He has

not done some of the things that I thought he would do, which I thought would be very destructive.

He's done some of those things by just tweeting all the time.

But he has

also

he's done a lot of good things, and

he gets no credit for it at all.

Some of the policies, some of the things like this,

if he can expose this and stop this,

he may be the most consequential in a positive direction

president since

I mean, I'd put him in Coolidge, Reagan, and even Lincoln on the amount of good that can be done if he can root this out.

But he doesn't seem to have any

allies.

And I talk to senators and congressmen.

And quite honestly, in private, they'll tell me how spooked they are by all of it.

That's a real scary thing.

Can President Trump

stop this?

Well,

you know, and I mentioned as an international fugitive my going to South Africa, and I actually went to

the home of Nelson Mandela in, you know, his hometown of Soweto,

near Johannesburg.

And

really,

you know, what he went through

is very much similar to what

President Trump has gone through.

And really to.

Oh my gosh, is that going to cause a media storm just saying that?

Well,

Carter Page compares Nelson Mandela and Donald Trump.

There's evidence that the CIA was involved in, you know, some of when

Mandela was trying to create some change in South Africa during the apartheid regime.

CIA, you know, which had close, you know, the U.S.

government had ties with

South Africa, and they were trying to keep things, you know, the establishment sort of heading in the direction that is in, you know, the way they want things to go.

And here's a guy, you know, similar to

candidate Trump who's trying, you know, trying to shake things up and make things go in a better new direction for their country.

And I think there's another similarity between those two is

when someone has a

such a

goes through those trials.

You know, he spent, you know, I spent time in Cape Town, too.

And,

you know, he was in jail

on an island there for, I think, 17 years or something like that.

That makes you stronger in a lot of ways, right?

To kind of understand

that corruption and these people who are coming after you so aggressively, it only makes you stronger if you can kind of go through that crucible and

emerge victorious.

And I think we're

similar to

all the impact that

President Mandela has, it's very similar in many ways.

Do you

if you hadn't had something

if you had had something to hide, anything, because

I've lived a life where we have people going through our garbage.

And my wife and I just laughed when we found out people were going through our garbage

because we are an open book.

Can you speak to the being an open book and how that,

how important that is when you go through something like this?

Well, again, you know, I think that just to sort of finish the thought

with those meetings in March of 2017, right?

right?

And being that open book.

That information, which I'm giving to the FBI,

again, similar to what you've experienced and, you know, what we've

been talking about,

it gets spun, right?

You know,

sometimes it's the old Miranda rights statement.

Anything you say can and will be used against you.

And these people are very creative when they have a agenda, both inside government, you know, bureaucracies, but also political operatives in government, but also in the media and the kind of the intersection between those two institutions.

And unfortunately, you know, it can have a very big negative impact.

But

a couple of thoughts.

This

Ukraine story, this whole impeachment,

I believe, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, are just

almost a cover-up of all of this.

Nancy Pelosi didn't impeach because they didn't have anything.

But once Trump started going to somebody

that just might be crazy enough to say, yeah, I want to clean up my country that the Democratic Party and operatives did not have control of,

they came out fast.

We have to spin the story before the story is spun against us.

Would you agree with that?

110%.

And there's tons of evidence that directly supports that.

Tons.

It's not coming out that way because the press is running

all the plays for them.

But

the same tactics used against you

are

still

being

run.

For instance, Rudy Giuliani was America's mayor.

He was the guy who put the Gambino crime family away.

You know, and, you know, I look at anybody who can really be effective in New York and know

probably

you're probably, you know, talking to some people that, you know, the good folks back in Iowa are not necessarily talking to.

As Rudy said,

you can't investigate the crime families unless you have some sources inside the crime families to help do it.

That's, I believe, what he was doing over in there.

He's the president's attorney trying to find out first:

how's this Russia thing going on?

How is your FISA?

How did that happen?

Where did that happen?

Leads him right to Ukraine.

And now we don't know

the guy who was America's mayor,

the guy who put the Gambinos away, now is

Russian operative, dirty, colluding.

And the same thing that happened to you is happening to him.

Again, I'm always very cautious.

I've never met Mayor Giuliani,

but on the face of it, so many elements of that story, I think you're absolutely right.

You know,

from what I can gather as a third party and as an outsider,

I definitely see those

repeats happening.

Both for him, but also...

Everybody.

Everybody in the middle.

Well, directly the guy that they're really trying to take down, which is the person in the Oval Office.

And

where is...

What's this going to mean in the end

here?

How do you think this plays out?

I think it's we're at a really critical time and people need to take very serious steps.

And I know you've you've often had Ted Cruz, Senator Cruz from the great state of Texas here.

He has been a growing force to really fight back against this

bureaucratic malfeasance.

And

he has really been a great inspiration.

But I think think there's

quite a few individuals.

And again,

you need support,

as you're correctly alluding to.

It's a lot more difficult when you try to do things on your own.

I've talked to senators.

There are a lot of senators that just don't want to get into whistleblower stuff and all that in the impeachment trial.

Should they?

Well, I think,

again, all of this is the tip of the iceberg.

I think, and I know Senator Cruz has sort of started to say that in terms of,

you know, let's, if you want witnesses, you know, you want John Bolton and people like that.

Okay, fine, but we need reciprocity, right?

We need sort of an equal approach.

And I believe, you know, from all the sort of basic evidence that if all if that actually happened, it would be a complete disaster for the Democrats, given all the

State Department and the intelligence and the FBI, which makes me think, you know,

you keep saying tip of the iceberg.

Yes.

Well, the iceberg above the water is here.

It's this that nobody sees that is the real problem.

Exactly.

How big

is what's underneath the surface that

none of us have seen?

It's funny.

I've talked about that and I've had various assumptions over time.

And, you know, just back in December,

in December of 2019, we get this big IG report.

And, you know, I always knew it was bad.

We get this interim IG report, 480 pages with showing more evidence.

So it just keeps getting worse and worse.

Bar a guy who will clean this up

or attempt to clean it up.

I've never met him.

I don't know firsthand, but just sort of on a theoretical level and what he's said in some of his speeches has been a great inspiration.

So, for example, his Federalist Society speech last year, where he kind of talks about some of these themes, but also at Notre Dame Law School, you know, in terms of religious liberties, et cetera.

I think he is a incredible force, but he also, from what I can tell, and he faces a lot of the same challenges that President Trump has faced.

Number one, with people in the permanent bureaucracy who are not supporting him fully

or anywhere near fully, number one.

And number two, the media, right?

Anything he does is, you know, from what I've seen thus far, again, with no firsthand experience, but

if he just does the right things or, you know, says reality, they come after him even more aggressively.

So, for example, when the Inspector General report came out on December 9th, 2019, and two days later,

Mr.

Horowitz testified in the Senate Judiciary, he made some statements that just showed, you know, sort of underscored how serious this problem is.

And

a lot of people on the media that week were saying, oh, he's just quote unquote, the president's lawyer, a personal lawyer,

kind of a fixer.

No, he's just stating reality.

And again, sometimes those headwinds of the media, negative media forces, as well as the permanent bureaucracy forces are pretty strong.

But I think in each instance, Attorney General Barr and President Trump have great strength of character and great

leadership skills.

So I'm cautiously optimistic.

A few years ago, when you first joined the Trump campaign,

I imagine with your record, with your international skills, there would be a possibility of you,

not saying that you did think this, but thinking,

my, I could go anywhere from here.

I could be an ambassador because I've served.

I've done these things.

I know these countries.

I know these people.

Not probably

on your horizon at least today.

What is the net?

Where do you go from here?

You're certainly not going into media.

I mean,

I would think that the president,

when he sees an injustice, maybe he...

He does put you in to serve someplace, but how are you going to get that passed?

You know, how are you going to do that?

Where do you go?

What do you do?

Well, look, it's the same challenge, I think, to your point.

Anyone that had sort of his similar worldview,

the permanent bureaucracy and democrat forces and the media came after them five times more aggressively, right?

So, I mean, I think a good example, let's

so this

when that Issakoff report came out on Friday, September 23rd, 2016, over the weekend, they've got this

Joy Reed show on MSNBC.

And who's with her?

But

or with, so Issakoff is a guest talking about his big defamatory report.

And

with her,

with the two of them, is Ambassador Michael McFall, who is Obama's ambassador to Russia.

And he and I have sparred over the years.

But similarly, right around the time of the election in November 2016, I believe, he tweeted out that, is Carter Page going to be the ambassador to Russia?

And I mean,

it's one of those things where

they really, these headwinds, it's such a huge challenge, not only just fighting this permanent bureaucracy, but also

the problems with individuals, right?

You know, who, I think along the lines of what you're leading into, you know, who's going to want to deal with that?

I actually met

a person who is still in the administration, worked on the campaign, and I met one of their family members this year, or sorry, last year in 2019.

And, you know, they said to me that

going through all of this, you know, muller witch hunt and related processes, I mean, it's, these are huge costs.

And, you know, people are on a government salary and the legal costs involved.

So it's,

it really is quite daunting.

And I, again, this is, this is another example where

I'm more concerned about, you know, number one, our country and what this has done to so so many innocent individuals and the serious costs they've paid.

And I mean, I said,

I express my apologies to their family,

saying that, and part of it, and I think this gets to your point, like, where do you go from here?

How do you deal with this?

I think anything I can do to help fix this fundamental system can have a very positive impact, and it's a way of serving that can be very uh an important force uh and maybe even a more important force outside of government and i you know just knowing your show and kind of getting the word out that

um

there are there's a lot uh there's huge value and you know your the service you do is uh is great and just just to finish a point um we were talking about this dni report in january of 2017 and the government propaganda.

When that Yahoo News defamatory article came out in September 2016, about 45 days before the election or so, Radio Free Europe, which is a U.S.

government-sponsored propaganda outlet, rebroadcasts that.

And in a defamation context, if you rebroadcast something, you know, it's also illegal.

All right.

So this is a U.S.

government-funded media propaganda outlet, which is putting out this false report.

And, you know, like we were saying about even CNN,

New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, they really steered clear of

these false libelous allegations.

But

here you have a

Obama administration-led

media agency, government propaganda agency, which is advancing this false story.

Industrial.

Paid for by your tax and all of our tax dollars.

And so Radio Free Europe that year in 2016, I believe, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I believe it was around over $100 million a year organization paid for by your taxpayer dollars.

And smearing you to make sure you don't perhaps have a good name overseas.

And well, the interesting thing, not only overseas, there was a change of the law right in the middle of the Obama administration, the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013.

It said they changed the law.

These propaganda agencies were created, you know, similar to the CIA, they were created at the outset, you know, right at the beginning of the Cold War, and then I believe in the 1940s.

And

by law, these organizations could never transmit into the United States.

These are foreign, you know, operations, government operations to try to influence opinion in foreign jurisdictions, particularly sort of Warsaw Pact and former Soviet Union.

They changed the law in

right

around the middle of the Obama administration

to change that law to say, now you can broadcast into the United States.

So that 2016 was the first time ever, a first presidential election where

they're unleashed, right?

These rabid dogs of disinformation are unleashed.

and advancing political objectives against innocent U.S.

citizens,

including candidate Trump in September of 2016.

You're very loyal to him.

I mean,

you've made this not about you.

You've always pointed out it's about him.

It's about our country.

Let me correct you briefly.

And it was an inspiration.

It's been sort of my modus operandi.

He always said during the campaign in 2016, and he said it throughout the time since, you know,

what he personally went through, and he's gone through so much more than I could ever even imagine.

But he always says, you know, he had a quote, it's not about me, it's about us, right?

This is about a movement to have positive change in our country.

And that, you know, I think when I sort of have this philosophy, it sort of is

understanding the value of that.

But also, you know, just to be clear, I never even met

Donald J.

Trump, you know, either as a candidate or in the year since or any time even before the campaign.

You have never met.

No, and that's the interesting thing in

the false spin, right?

You

are.

volunteer committee had one meeting in, I believe it was somewhere around March 31st, 2016, about a week or so after we were announced.

I had previously booked a trip out

to meet with top military leaders in Hawaii, U.S.

Pacific Command, which is, again, it was another one of these kind of off-the-record meetings, but it has been leaked in the time since.

So I think

it's been acknowledged.

But, you know, I'm with a lot of top admirals and generals, you know, fellow military veterans out in, you know, 5,000 miles away from this one meeting of our committee.

And so, and I, you know, I had already kind of prearranged this.

My travel is all said, and

I'm on the other side of the.

What would you say to him if you saw him, if you met him?

I think just to express appreciation for how much he's done to help improve our country and to advance

these elements.

But also, I think, you know, to your point about, you know, serving within an administration, just understanding some of the operatives and just how much malfeasance.

And again, it goes back to our tip of the iceberg point.

There's just so much more when you start digging into details about this.

And I think explaining some of those details and just looking at the all the, you know, making sure that, you know, you have the full scope of the wrongdoing.

And again, so perfect example are these ridiculous

impeachment hearings in 2019, where

all these people who are just telling their personal stories, and it's like the,

you know, some New York Times opinion columns these people are given.

No facts, no kind of first-hand facts whatsoever, just opinion and disagreement, you know, to that point.

When people are consistently smashed, who have who share a similar worldview to our commander-in-chief, what's left is the

permanent political class and these

operatives who have

perpetuated these negative forces.

But we'll see how it all plays out.

Hopefully,

it plays out

well

and plays out well for you in court,

going after the government and the media, and it goes well for the president and anyone else who has been smeared and wronged, and the bad guys go to jail.

I'd like to still believe that happens in America.

Carter, thank you.

Thanks so much, Clench.

Great to be with you.

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