The Big Pay Back Is Here | Guests: Dave Isay & Michael Shellenberger | 7/9/19

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Good morning.

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The fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

Hello, America, from Midtown Manhattan this week in the Blaze studios.

Welcome to the Glen Beck program.

We're going to talk a little bit about what's happening politically.

Why is Jeffrey Epstein in so much trouble?

And he's in big trouble.

Who's going to be pulled down with him?

What is this all about?

Is it, if you're listening to or reading the New York Times,

you would believe this is about Trump, but is it possible that

this is about the Clintons and Trump's payback?

Interesting theory.

Don't know if it's correct.

We'll tell you all about it in one minute.

This is the Glenbeck program.

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So years ago, a couple of friends of mine here in New York started something called a conspiracy dinner.

And it was only called a conspiracy dinner because at the time we were all called

conspirators and conspiracy theorists.

Even though it looks like almost everything we said has come true now, so it's not really a conspiracy.

In fact, we had videotape of it.

But anyway, that's a different story.

So last night, now it's kind of a joke that

it's called a conspiracy dinner.

And

it's super smart people

that

want to get together and just talk frankly about the world.

And

it was fascinating to me last night because

there were two people at the table that were

former liberals that are no longer liberals.

A lot of libertarians and I would say most of them, in fact, I think the libertarians would consider themselves now

conservatives because they're so tired of libertarians, you know,

just

being worthless on being able to win.

They're just not willing to win, I think.

Anyway, we were talking last night, and

the Republicans better wake up because the Republicans...

There was no love at this table at all for the Democrats, for sure.

A lot of love at that table for Donald Trump and zero love for the Republicans.

The Republicans are seen as

useless, totally and completely useless.

And at some point, that thing is going to catch up to them.

Because really, honestly, what are they good for?

I don't know anybody who's even talking about Republicans anymore.

I don't know anybody who's really talking about Congress and excited about this Congressman or that congressman or we got to get the congressman.

They all feel that we have done so much in the last 15 years and all of it for

relatively

no payback.

We didn't really get any payback on that.

We didn't get anything

for our hard-earned effort of getting these guys in.

Most of them just kind of flip or wishy-washy or have no power.

So what's going to happen to the Democratic Party?

Well, I think you could say what's going to happen to both parties.

And the Jeffrey Epstein

scandal,

I think is really

interesting and important.

Here's a guy that in 2002 had enough political clout to be able to have this thing swept under the rug.

Now,

if you're paying attention to this story,

you will think that there is a possibility that this is all about Donald Trump.

And I think there is that possibility.

I think the media thinks that.

I think they're hoping that they can just make this about Donald Trump and his Secretary of Labor, who was actually the prosecuting attorney down in Florida back in the early 2000s, that kind of made a sweetheart deal unlike any other sweetheart deal I've ever seen.

It was an absolute miscarriage of justice.

And so I think they're trying to make it about him.

But when Nancy Pelosi's daughter comes out and tweets, and I want to get this exactly right, quite likely some of our faves will be implicated in this case.

When Nancy Pelosi's daughter is signaling,

hey,

Democrats, better wake up because some of our favorite people may be implicated.

Yeah.

Yeah, it looks like they might be.

And this, I don't know how this guy survives.

Yesterday, he was in court and he was trying to strike a plea bargain, and they're negotiating very, very tough with him.

They're trying to get him to

flip evidence.

on the people that he

who were the people that he was servicing with underage girls.

I'm not sure what's going to happen, but if you're Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton came out yesterday.

Let me give you the exact quote from Bill Clinton.

Bill Clinton said yesterday,

quote,

this is from his office, President Clinton knows nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to in Florida some years ago or those of which he has been recently charged in New York.

In 2002 and 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Epstein's plane, one to Europe, one to Asia, two to Africa, which included stops in connection with the work of the Clinton Foundation.

Staff supporters of the foundation and his Secret Service detail traveled on every leg of the trip.

Now, this is Clinton's office saying this.

He had one meeting with Epstein in his Harlem office in 2002.

Around the same time, he made a brief visit to Epstein's New York apartment with a staff member and his security detail.

He has not spoken to Epstein in over a decade and has never been to Little St.

James Island, Epstein's ranch in New Mexico, or his residence in Florida.

Okay.

So the statement that's going to cause him problem

is staff supporters of the foundation and Secret Service detail went along on every leg of those trips.

The problem is, is that Clinton went on at least 26 trips on the plane that was dubbed the Lolita Express.

Now, when you've got a plane and it's called the Lolita Express, I think this is an open secret, don't you?

I think when that's the nickname of the plane,

between 2003, he said between 2001 and 2003,

I just went on a few of these trips.

Well, 26 according to the FAA logs.

The listed destination of those trips were the Azores, Singapore, Brunei, Norway, Russia, among others.

On at least five of those excursions, remember,

when you get on a plane, there's a record of it because of your ticket.

When you're on a private plane, you have to have a manifest.

You have to know the names and see the IDs of every single person on board, and it's logged with the FAA.

You can't just bring a friend on the plane.

It's against the law.

You have to have them on the manifest.

So he said that, you know, my Secret Service was with me every time.

But on five of those flights, the flight logs denote that Clinton was not accompanied by any Secret Service personnel.

The former president did occasionally travel in the company of the woman Maxwell.

This is the New York socialite, the one who looks like she's the pimp.

And also Epstein's former assistant, both women previously investigated by the FBI, Florida law enforcement, over concerns they help recruit the underage victims.

Clinton claimed he had one meeting in his Harlem office in 2002 around the same time he made a brief visit to the New York apartment with a staff member and security detail.

The former president stated he had not spoken in well over a decade, never been in many of the locations.

Okay, the problem is

he didn't travel with his security detail on five of the 26 flights that he took with Epstein.

Why did he dismiss the security detail?

Why didn't they go with him?

Could be perfectly innocent, but when you have a guy like Clinton traveling

26 times with a guy like Epstein, you kind of wonder.

I wonder.

Now they're using this to go after Donald Trump with

a line that he

gave to,

I'm trying to remember where it was.

See if it says it here.

It doesn't.

Yeah, here it is.

In New York magazine.

They did a profile in 2002 of Epstein.

And

this is what Donald Trump said.

I've known Jeff for 15 years.

He's a terrific guy.

He's a lot of fun to be with.

It's even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do.

And many of them are on the younger side.

No doubt about it.

Jeffrey enjoys his social life.

Well, I mean, that's pretty clear.

I mean, he's got a plane called the Lolita Express, and Donald Trump is like, hey, I just want you to know, he likes him young.

That's a problem.

But is it a problem for the president?

Did he get involved at all?

Well, I will tell you this.

Mar-Lago, according to a court filing, Mar-a-Lago dumped Epstein from

its roster of members because he approached an underage girl there.

She filed a protest, and Trump immediately had him removed from the members list.

That's a really good point in his favor, is it not?

Now,

here's what this all boils down to.

An affidavit

in New York.

Her name is Sarah Ransom, and she says, I'm currently over the age of 18 I reside in the country of Spain and in 2006 I was 22 years old I was living in New York and I was introduced to Jeffrey Epstein by a girl that I had met Shortly after meeting Jeffrey he invited me to fly on his private island to the U.S.

Virgin Islands which I did After that first trip I traveled to the islands several more times usually on one of his private planes always at his direction I'm told that my name appears on the flight logs of one or more of those trips.

On a few occasions, Jeffrey also arranged to have me flown to the island on commercial flights.

As it turns out, the primary purpose of those visits was

to have me have sexual relations with

Jeffrey, Nadia Mikova, and various other girls and guests he brought to the island.

During one of my visits, I met Maxwell.

This is is the woman who is currently

the madam.

Watching her interact with other girls, it became clear to me she recruited all or many of them to the island.

Once they were there, she appeared to be in charge of their activities, including what they did, who they did it with, and how they were supposed to stay in line.

She assumed the same supervisory role with me as soon as I arrived.

Some of the girls appeared to be 18 or older, but many appeared to be young teenagers.

I recalled seeing a particularly young, thin girl who looked well under 18, and I recall asking her age.

I later learned she was a ballerina, but she refused to tell me her age or let me see her passport.

This is where it gets interesting, and we'll pick it up there in one minute.

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10 seconds, station ID.

In addition to spending time with Jeffrey on his island, I spent time with him in New York City.

At his townhouse, I was also, listen to this, I was also lent out by him to his friends and associates to have sex.

Among the people he lent me to was his friend, Alan Dershowitz.

On one occasion, I was in a bedroom at Jeffrey's New York townhouse with Jeffrey and Nadia Makanova.

After a short time, Alan Dershowitz entered the room, after which, Jeffrey left the room, and Nadia and I had sex with Dershowitz.

I recall specific key details of his person and the sex acts and can describe them in an event it becomes necessary to do so.

I affirm under the penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.

Ah,

wow, that's going to hurt Alan Dershowitz.

Now, Alan Dershowitz says that

I can prove that I was never there.

I don't know how you prove

something didn't happen, but he says he can prove that

this is a lie.

Although, you know what this makes me think of was,

isn't there a

I'll have to ask my Scottish friend, but I believe there's a dish

from England that

it's called Spotted Dick.

And I think that is an actual food item.

Don't know why I'm bringing that up, because what I'm really thinking about is Michael Jackson.

You remember what happened with Michael?

Michael Jackson?

I'm just saying.

They photographed him, right?

They photographed me.

They photographed me.

They photographed my penis.

They photographed it and they drew lines around it.

And

they swatted it around and I didn't like it.

What kind of freak would do that?

What kind of freak

was horrifying?

It was horrifying.

They made me pull my pants in.

That may be with Alan Dershowitz, which

would be very bad.

Now,

what they found, what they released Monday is that they went into Epstein's house and they found at least hundreds, I'm quoting the FBI,

at least hundreds and perhaps thousands of sexually suggestive photographs of fully or partially nude females that appear to be underage.

They were in a locked safe.

He's a sex offender.

He's not supposed to have any of these.

So

he is now saying he will turn evidence,

a rumor is, that he will turn evidence uh if they just kind of

they let him go

i won't do any more than a year in jail and i'll tell you all of the names involved

how's this gonna work out this this seems like doesn't this seem like a mob movie where that guy is the guy who gets the shiv in the eye someplace towards the end of the movie

uh especially when you're dealing with the royal family and American royalty

of both sides of the idol.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.

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Okay, so here's an interesting theory that I read yesterday that I want to share with you.

And

I don't know if this is accurate, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this, Pat.

So

Mueller.

Mueller

is deep into this Jeffrey Epstein.

Is it Epstein or Epstein?

I've heard both, but they both seem.

Okay.

I think it's Epstein.

Do you remember when at the very beginning, it was lock her up, lock her up with Donald Trump?

And then when he got in, he said, you know what, she's been through enough.

I'm not going to lock her up.

Okay.

So

he's going to play ball with the way the government does things.

And I think that was his olive branch.

I'm not going to lock you up.

We're just going to move on.

However, because they didn't move on, because

they thought that this, because remember,

what was it that Hillary released?

What was the salacious detail in

the report that came out that we know now that Hillary was responsible for?

Remember?

I'm trying to think.

Sex.

Oh, yeah, the showers.

Right, the thing in Moscow.

Yes, okay.

So that was the salacious,

completely bogus.

We know now that this was a democratic thing.

It

was used by people in the DOJ.

We know that this was, and I hate this word because I think people misunderstand it and misuse it, but it was deep state.

Okay.

We know that this is a tangled web of people in the DOJ and elsewhere that had their own political agenda and would stop at nothing.

So

when Trump goes through all of this,

the theory is that he's had enough.

And Mueller was

involved in the actual plea bargain of Epstein, and he helped do that deal with Epstein.

So the theory is, is that Trump is actually kind of behind this, pushing this a little bit,

because he's going to get his revenge on Mueller, and he's going to get his revenge on Hillary Clinton.

Because the thing, Hillary Clinton's Achilles heel is Bill Clinton.

You expose Bill Clinton for the creep that he is, and I think that it's over.

It's finally time for that to be over.

That love affair is done.

So, because Mueller helped Epstein mostly get off the hook last time, according to court documents,

now

you have

a Justice Department led by somebody, at least at this point, loyal to Trump.

And

what matters is that Epstein's no longer able to hide behind the Clinton bag men and

cut a deal because now the administration has changed and Trump would like to

have some payback.

I don't know if that's true, but I sure hope it is because that means that Trump knows he's completely clean in this thing and you can't,

there's no way they can take him down with it, but

he can get to them with it.

That would be a really good outcome, I think.

I think I would be too.

Yeah, if you could just, if you could expose Bill Clinton's dirt-baggedness

along with more of Jeffrey

Epstein's, who's been a long time Democratic donor, and they've been completely unscathed by this scandal,

and Trump

has

no dirt on him, that'd be great.

Yeah, I will tell you that

I don't think that it's just Hillary Clinton.

I think it's people in the DOJ.

I think it is people in the Democratic Party.

Remember, this guy is a very big donor for the Democratic Party.

This is Harvey Weinstein, and they all knew about it.

You don't name

his plane, the Lolita Express, and not know.

How are they going to claim innocence and they didn't know?

They all knew what he was like, and they all just went for the cash anyway, and all the dirtbags rallied around him, and

everybody thought they were protected.

I mean, if Prince Andrew is involved in this, this scandal is gigantic.

gigantic.

And I don't see how this guy lives.

I don't see how this is fairly prosecuted.

It seems to me this will be one of those things where you're prosecuted if you are on the outs.

The people who are sweating are the ones who are not in the inside core.

Because I just don't think they'll ever get to the inside core.

But I think Bill Clinton is on the outs.

I mean.

Yeah, they don't care what happens to him anymore.

They don't care.

You know, and it's beyond they don't care about him.

They do care about what happens to Hillary, and they don't like Hillary.

Right.

And so now it's a combination of, you know, if it was just Bill, I think they would leave him alone.

But because Hillary is out there yapping all the time and they really despise Hillary, I think part of the payback is to go after him.

It's hard to imagine this, though, because you know, just a few short years ago, she was the chosen one, and the Clinton machine couldn't be messed with.

There was nobody who could take on the Clintons and

survive, you know, politically.

Or if you're to look at the death list, even literally, survive.

You can't help it.

I can't help it.

You can't help it.

You're just like, oh, I want them to believe.

I want them to believe.

I love to poke up with that because it's fun.

It's just good.

Good

fun.

Well, everybody that has ever known them has died.

Or even met them or had a picture

in the Oval Office.

They're all dead, you know.

They killed them all.

The Clintons have a real knack for plane crashes.

A lot of them have died in plane crashes.

They're really good at them.

Are you really going to go there?

Tell me about the plane crashes, Pat.

Because I know there's a lot of people.

Well, Ron Brown.

There's a lot of people there.

I mean, Ron Brown.

Ron Brown.

Yeah.

That's just one.

I'd have to go back and look at the list because

it's extensive.

But Ron Brown springs immediately to mind.

Right.

Well, Ron Brown, if you remember right, he was really having some problems with the Clintons and the Democrats.

Right.

And,

you know, a lot of people are like, what was he thinking when he got on that plane?

And I can't tell you what he was thinking, but I think I know what went through his head there at the end, which was a bullet.

Right.

And then they covered it up with a plane crash.

And that's all proven because he was laughing as he was coming out of the funeral, remember?

Yeah.

Or the burial.

And then all of a sudden he saw the journalist, and then he was immediately crying.

So you know he killed him.

Yep.

One could only hope the grand jury

is this thorough here in New York.

Oh, look at him.

You know he raped her.

You know he did it.

And so did Bill Clinton and pretty much everybody involved in the Democratic Party.

You just know it.

You know it.

Look, they were laughing at one point.

I have a picture of them laughing.

And then they stopped immediately.

That can't happen unless you're totally guilty.

No.

No, not at all.

There's a couple of other things that I want to get into today.

Did you see the girl that was licking the ice cream?

Yeah, the blue belt.

And then

put it back in the...

It's just.

What did you think of that?

You know, it's disgusting.

And it creates another weird thing that we're going to have to worry about because somebody licked my ice cream.

It got so bad that in some parts of Texas, they've actually got people guarding.

They've locked down the ice cream, and you have to go seek out one of the employees to unlock the ice cream so you can buy, you know, half a gallon of ice cream.

Am I the only one that has to take that plastic wrap around

the lid off?

Do they have that on Bluebell?

Because I think that was, wasn't that one of the things that they were yelling about?

Is why don't you have one of those plastic wrappers around a top?

I'm trying to think if

you have to.

I don't know.

I usually am not the one that opens the bluebell.

Right.

I'm just the one that finishes it.

Yeah, almost everyone.

I'm the one who finishes.

I never open it, but I know if it has something to do with that empty container going into the garbage can after it's been almost licked clean, I can answer that.

So there was a guy.

Did you see the guy with a scope mouthwash?

Did the same thing?

No.

What do you got to do?

Oh, yeah.

And he was just so obnoxious.

Now, here's the thing.

One of them actually

has the

receipt for the ice cream, and they have her on tape going back.

She licked it, put it away, and then walked off camera.

Then they have her on the store camera going back in, getting that ice cream, and taking it up front and buying it and taking it out of the store.

Which,

you know, is nice to think that they

did.

That they did.

This girl,

right?

We don't know this suspect that has been arrested, but she faces 20 years in prison.

Which for the licking?

That's a little

severe.

You think?

I think maybe a fine, you know, a public health safety issue fine of some sort, $100 or whatever.

$10,000.

$10,000

are on the table for committing second-degree felony of tampering with a consumer product.

Wow.

Now, this is the Texas code, so I don't know what you get.

I mean, you're lucky you're not hung in Texas.

You screw with bluebell ice cream.

That's true.

I think they can hang you in Texas.

But

20 years in prison, and I'll bet you, Pat, that this

comes from the Tylenol scare.

Do you remember that?

Yes.

Yeah.

And I was trying to remember the other day.

The Tylenol scare happened because, well, it was real in one case, I think.

Somebody opened up a Tylenol and,

I don't know, laced it with cyanide or something.

Do you remember what was it?

Something like that.

It was definitely tampered with.

Right.

And Tylenol, most people don't know this.

Tylenol should be out of business.

This is the most remarkable recovery of any consumer product I have ever seen.

It was marked as poisonous.

They said, throw all your Tylenol away.

So everybody got rid of their Tylenol because it was poison.

Remember, we've all been x-raying our candy for things that never happened on Halloween.

This actually happened.

They had to get rid of all of it, but it is because of Tylenol that we have the tamper-proof, that we have the seal on the outside, that we have the foil seal on the inside.

Still no explanation for the cotton.

But that's why we have that.

And I'll bet you she gets 20 years or she's charged with something that could end up with 20 years because of the Tylenol issue.

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So, Michael Schellenberg, he is Time Magazine's hero of the environment.

He's the Green Book Award winner.

He is the founder and president of Environmental Progress.

He's going to be on the show.

Now, here's why.

Because he says

everything

you saw in the movie Chernobyl, almost all of it is bogus.

He's like, it was not that bad.

This is an anti-nuclear energy screed.

Really?

And he's got, yeah, he's got the evidence.

Now, look, he is a green guy.

Okay.

He shouldn't be agreeing with,

you know, people like me.

So he has no agenda other than, hey, this is wrong.

This is absolutely wrong.

And he is a,

because he's a green guy and an honest one, he says nuclear energy is the way to go.

And he says Chernobyl actually proves how safe it is.

A very different look at what happened at Chernobyl and he's got the facts.

So we've been waiting for him to come on.

He comes on today in about an hour from now.

Also Dave Isse is going to be joining us and I have to tell you about a little watched story that may be one of the most important stories in your lifetime.

I'll tell you about that coming up next hour.

You can head to theblaze.com for more top stories.

I'm Hillary.

That is your four-minute buzz.

And now here's Glenn and Pat with the next hour of the show.

Thank you so much, Hillary.

We've got a great hour coming up for you in just a second.

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The fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

This is the Glembeck program.

Well, welcome, welcome to it.

Today, I want to tell you a story that is buried in the news, but it had Mike Pence returning to the White House.

It had

Vladimir Putin returning to his office for emergency meetings.

and we haven't heard much about it and I'm going to tell you what the story is really about because what you do see in the news is not true

but I will explain what happened to the nuclear submarine that put I think 11 captains captains a lot of captains on this submarine for it just to be a normal submarine why were these 11 captains put into the hospital What really happened at the bottom of the ocean with a Russian submarine?

We'll have that coming up in just a second.

And some good news.

Some people that are coming together, people that are starting to look for solutions rather than problems.

We do that in one minute.

This is the Glen Beck program.

Innovation is such a wonderful thing.

Innovation, it could be used to kill us.

It could be used to really

change the world for the better.

And I think that we have amazing things on the horizon due to technology.

At the same time, there are people that are working to use that technology to steal your stuff, you know, destroy the banking system, whatever it is.

Some people just like to watch the world burn.

Others are just, I mean, if they would just spend their time learning a trade,

they would be probably really successful.

These people are learning a trade to scam people.

We need companies like LifeLock, who I used to mock.

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What are you going to do with it?

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Then they have people here in America that work to fix it.

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Dave Isse is a friend of ours.

He's the founder and president of StoryCorps.

StoryCorps, if you listen to NPR, you are very well aware of it.

It's something that has been running for a very long time, and it's one of the things I just love listening to.

And Dave came into my office, I don't know, about a year ago.

Less than that, I think.

Less than that.

And said,

we're going to do something new, one small step, and try to bring people together

and have them find their way back to each other and just staying away from politics.

Yeah.

I mean, I think what one small step is about is this.

I mean, when I stepped in,

you're, is this a new studio?

No, these are our, yeah, these are new studios for the Blaze here, yeah.

So, um, you know, we were talking about how bananas the country's going, right?

And it's about a culture of contempt.

And it's taking the, you know, it's taking the temperature down on this culture of this incredibly dangerous culture of contempt that we have in the country.

Now, I was thinking

as I walked in, I was at

one of the big social media companies last week.

And I was saying that

when we call each other

morons or racists or Nazis,

you can't bully someone into changing their mind, right?

When you call someone a name, it doesn't change them, it actually hardens their beliefs, right?

And

makes them more extreme.

And I said to this person at this, at this social media company, we've created a way for billions of times a day, 24 hours a day, we're telling each other we're morons, right?

And it's just dividing us in these ways that are, you know, an existential threat.

It's so funny, Dave, because I...

I don't think people are like that in real life.

When I travel America, that's not the way they are.

They're still living neighbor to neighbor.

But we go inside our house and all of a sudden we become an animal online.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think, I mean, what you saw when I, I mean, you've been thinking about this, obviously.

And when I came in, I mean, it was incredibly generous of you to invite me in, but you said, like, I totally get it.

Like,

and, and, you know, and, and it's just, it's in the last year, it's just gotten, it's just gotten worse, you know, and we have to, it's enough already.

You know, we've got to figure this thing out, or, you know,

the very fabric of our democracy is

at risk, I think.

I agree with you.

I think that there is a

you're not, again, we are all involved in it, but there are catalysts on both sides that are really interested in keeping us divided.

You know, we have a political system that learned long ago, the more I divide,

the stronger I get.

And until we solve that, I don't know how, or until we just reject that, until we say, I'm I'm just not going to play that game anymore.

And I think more and more people are doing that.

Yeah.

Well, I hope so.

And, you know, it's really, it's a little, it's tilting at windmills to some extent, you know, and

I mean, there is definitely a, you know, there's a fear-industrial complex.

And, you know,

the truth is, as you all know, like the only truth is love, right?

Full stop.

That's it, you know, and that's getting buried.

We have to just start telling the truth.

It's weird because, you know, you say there's a truth,

what did you call it?

Fear industrial complex.

Fear industrial industrial complex.

But you know, that's it, right?

That's what you're talking about with politics, right?

But it is, but it is strange because there are things to be concerned about.

So it's this weird thing that

you say there's a fear-industrial complex, which I absolutely agree with.

But because of that, there are real problems that are enormous.

Absolutely.

You know,

we are, you you started with, you know, we could lose the Republic.

We absolutely could, and I think we're really close to that if we don't turn around soon.

But that's not fear-mongering.

That's telling the truth.

It's because of

a lot of the fear-mongering.

I read something

from somebody right after the election of Donald Trump, and it was from a Democratic operative, and he said,

you know, in some ways, we have to blame ourselves because we took men like Mitt Romney and said he was the Antichrist.

That's right.

And when I say, I mean, obviously there are, of course, there are things to be afraid of.

But the fear industrial complex is about making us hate each other.

And that's not the answer.

That's never the answer.

You know, we have to, you know, the Story Corps, which you mentioned earlier, which I run, which is this project that just brings people together to talk to each other, have these conversations that go to the Library of Congress.

It's built on the idea that none of us are the worst thing that we've ever done.

assume the best intentions in other.

And if you have these kind of golden rules undergirding, the country can move ahead.

And if not, we just, we, we, you know, it's, it's, this is, you look at the last week, the last two weeks, some of the things that happened, it's like, it's like Vladimir Putin's like dream.

Oh, it is.

It is absolutely.

It's like, like, he couldn't imagine things going better

for this country from his perspective.

But one of the things that Story Court does is,

you know, as we get rid of the golden golden rule, as we get rid of church or God or whatever it is that

has been the governor on us, you've replaced that with history.

So when people enter the booth, they're not willing to say,

I think if people really understood your tweets will never go away, so your children and great-grandchildren, those are all being put in the National Archives as well.

Those things will be able to be seen forever.

When you go into a Story Corps booth, you know this is being recorded for the National Archives.

Right.

And people are on their best behavior.

It's that governor that we seem to have lost.

That's right.

I mean, it's the, you know, if we live in this world of complete impermanence, everything, nothing matters, right?

You write something, you don't think about it.

But when you come into a Story Corps booth, your great-great-great-grandchildren are going to listen to you.

So, you know, when I was at the social media company, I said, you know, half a million people have participated in Story Corps, which is nothing in social media numbers, but nothing's ever got, like, no one has ever behaved badly.

And the person I was talking to said, that really like strains the boundaries of belief.

Yeah.

But it's true, you know, and you know, I think we just have to, we have to remember who we are as people and that truth that, I mean, I know, that, that you know, that, you know, all of our lives, all of our stories matter equally and infinitely.

And that's all that matters.

So tell me what you brought us today.

So I have a couple of stories.

Do we have time for two?

We have, I think we might have time for two, yes.

Okay.

So this first one is,

StoryCorps does do a lot of history.

And you know, this passed a week ago was the anniversary.

And I have a personal story associated with this we can talk about.

My dad was, I found out when I was when I was in my 20s, was gay.

And he, and I was, it totally took me by surprise.

And as my brother said, our nuclear family blew up.

And

he ended up becoming like a, he was a psychiatrist.

He was an amazing, amazing guy.

And when he

told me about that he was gay, he mentioned the Stonewall riots.

Do you know what that is?

Okay, so 50 years ago, last week, there was a riot at a bar in Greenwich Village that led to the beginning of the gay rights movement.

It used to be illegal to have gay bars.

And he told me about this, and I went out and I interviewed the people who had been there 30 years ago.

And then my dad actually ended up dying very quickly of cancer on the anniversary of Stonewall a few years ago.

And this year's the 50th anniversary.

So we did a bunch of stories about what it was like to be gay before 1969.

So this is one of those stories.

It's a dairy farmer, the kid of a dairy farmer in rural Washington in the 1950s, who came to Story Corps with his daughter to talk about a school assembly he performed at when he was a teenager.

Okay, here it is.

I'm riding to school with my oldest brother, and on the way to school, I'm putting glitter all over my face.

And my brother said, what in the hell are you doing?

I said, I'm putting on my costume.

He said, well, I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that.

So he dropped me off at the school, and he called my dad up, and he said, Dad, I think you better get up there.

This is not going to look good.

So my dad drove up to the high school, and he had his farmer jeans on, and they had cow crap on him, and he had his clodhopper boots on.

And when I saw him coming, I ducked around the hall and hid from him.

And it wasn't because of what I was wearing,

it was because of what he was wearing.

So the assembly goes well, and I'm climbing the car, and I'm riding home with my father.

And my father says to me,

I was walking down the hall this morning and I saw a kid that looked a lot like you ducking around the hall to avoid his dad, but I know it wasn't you because you would never do that to your dad.

And I squirmed in my seat, and I finally busted out.

And I said, Well, dad, did you have to wear your cow crap jeans to my assembly?

And he said, look, everybody knows I'm a dairy farmer.

This is who I am.

And he looked me square in the eye.

And then he said, now how about you?

When you're a full-grown man, who are you going to go out with at night?

And I said, I don't know.

And he said, I think you do know.

And it's not going to be that McLaughlin girl that's been making goo-goo eyes at you, but you won't even pick up the damn telephone.

Now I'm going to tell you something today.

And you might not know what to think of it now, but you're going to remember when you're an adult, don't sneak.

Because if you sneak like you did today, it means you think you're doing the wrong thing.

And if you run around spending your whole life thinking that you're doing the wrong thing, then you'll ruin your immortal soul.

And out of all the things

A father in 1959 could have told his gay son, my father tells me to be proud of myself and not sneak.

My reaction at the time was to get out in the hayfield and pretend like I was as much of a man as I could be.

And I remember flipping 50-pound bales three feet up into the air going, I'm not a queer.

What's he talking about?

But he knew where I was headed.

And he knew that making me feel bad about it in any way was the wrong thing to do.

I had the patron saint of dads for sissies.

And no, I didn't know it at the time, but I know it now.

What a great story.

Storycore.org.

More in a second.

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We can go to, it's a good story.

We can go right into this other story if you want.

I just set it up.

So, Dave, tell me what else you brought.

So, you know, a lot of people are thinking about the 50th anniversary of the Apollo moon landing this month.

This is a space story, and it speaks to what happens when you have an archive as big as StoryCorps.

So, when it was the 25th anniversary of the shuttle disaster, we went to see if anybody had come in to talk about it.

And the brother of one of the astronauts had come to StoryCorps to remember Ron McNair, who was the second African-American to fly in space and one of the seven astronauts to die when the Challenger exploded in 1986.

So this is his brother?

This is his brother coming to talk about growing up with Ron in Lake City, South Carolina.

Here we go.

When he was nine years old, Ron, without my parents or myself knowing his whereabouts, decided to take a mile walk from our home down to the library, which was of course public library but not so public for black folks when you're talking about 1959

so as he was walking in there all these folks were staring at him because they were white folk only and they were looking at him saying you know who's this negro so he politely positioned himself in line to check out his books well this old librarian she says this library is not for coloreds

He said, well, I would like to check out these books.

She says, young man, if you don't leave this library right now, I'm going to call the the police.

So he just propped himself up on the counter and sat there and said, I'll wait.

So she called the police and subsequently called my mother.

The police came down.

Two burly guys come in and say, well, where's the disturbance?

And she pointed to the little nine-year-old boy sitting up on the counter.

He says, man, what's the problem?

So my mother, in the meanwhile, she was called, she comes down there praying the whole way there.

Lord, Jesus, please don't let them put my child in jail.

And my mother asked the librarian, what's the problem?

Well, he wanted to check out the books.

And you know, your son shouldn't be down here.

And the police officer said, you know, why don't you just give the kid the books?

And my mother said, he'll take good care of them.

And reluctantly, the librarian gave Ron the books.

And my mother said, what did you say?

He said, thank you, ma'am.

Later on, as youngsters, a show came on TV called Star Trek.

Now, Star Trek showed the future where there were black folk and white folk working together and I looked at it as science fiction because that wasn't going to happen really.

But Ronald saw it as science possibility.

You know, he came up during a time when there was Neil Armstrong and all of those guys.

So how is a colored boy from South Carolina wearing glasses, never flew a plane, how was he going to become an astronaut?

But Ron was the one who didn't accept societal norms as being his norm.

I mean, that was for other people.

And

he got to to be aboard his own Starship Enterprise.

You know, it's amazing?

Both of those stories are 1959.

They both start 1959.

Yep.

And how much we have changed.

And

that's the frustrating thing, I think, for so many people is we're not those people anymore.

We're just not those people.

And

we can't step back far enough to recognize, look at the progress we've made.

Some real good progress.

Yeah.

And I should say just with

when you talk about progress, that library ended up being named for Ron McNair.

So now that is the Ron McNair library.

Yeah, I mean there's that great line also, you know, from Maya Angelou from Clinton's first inauguration, that history, despite its wrenching pain, you know, can't be unlived, but if faced with courage need not be lived again.

We have to look at what it was and face it and make sure that it never happens again.

And that's the country moving forward.

And tell the truth.

Just tell the truth.

I've had a problem.

One of my favorite, one of my heroes is Winston Churchill.

Unless you read about him in India.

Right.

And then you're like, whoa, who is this guy?

He's both.

He's both.

It's the trajectory that people are on.

Are they getting better?

Are they getting worse?

And that's what we need to do.

To be able to come together, we have to say, look, we were here.

We're now here.

We still have a lot of work to do, but we're on the right trajectory.

We have to keep moving in the right direction.

Dave, thank you so much.

God bless.

Good to see you.

StoryCorps,

if you want to be involved with some of these stories, just go to storycore.org or onesmallstep.

Yeah, slash one small step.

And this is about having conversations across the divides.

And we want to get as many, like we're going to start scaling in next year

and really try and have this be everywhere across the country.

But, you know, we'd love

the Glenn Beck School audience to be pioneers in this and really start with us.

Good.

It is

storycore.org slash one small step.

Back in a moment.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.

So if you would come to my studio, you would see that my paintings are starting to stack up.

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This is the Glenn Beck program from our New York studios in Midtown Manhattan.

We're so thrilled to have you listening to us today.

Thank you for listening and watching.

And if you're a member of the Blaze, thank you for your subscription.

We are

a

we're wildly concerned about the silencing of voices.

And your subscription to the Blaze helps ensure that the voices

that you trust

are heard.

That's Mark Levin.

That's my voice.

That's

Stephen Crowder.

And I think about 40 others.

Can somebody count the shows that we do?

There's somebody named Pat Gray, too, who does a show called Unleashed.

Yeah, we're not really concerned about preserving his voice.

So I have to get to a couple of stories, and I just don't know if I'm going to be able to have time, and I don't want to do it unless I can do it justice.

This Russian submarine story is fascinating when you find out.

There was an alert out that there was a catastrophe of planetary scale

regarding a nuclear submarine, and I think 12 captains, which is weird, were on board and they were rushed to the hospital as they got out of this submarine.

And a planetary scale catastrophe happened.

What could that possibly be?

Well, I believe it's a cover-up for what it really is, because when you look at the submarine and you know anything about submarines, which I don't, but I happen to know people who do know.

It's an interesting, fascinating story, and it all kind of goes back to Vladimir Putin's statements about World War III.

We'll have that story coming up for you.

Also, if you watched,

what is it, Chernobyl.

If you watched Chernobyl on HBO, you might have thought, as I did, wow, this is an incredible, true life story.

That's the way they shape it.

They shaped it as what you're about to see here is true.

Well, with an exception of the one scientist, that's just a,

you know,

a representative of all of the scientific community in this one person.

Well, there's a few other things that aren't exactly true.

And when you hear it,

we've been played.

We have been played.

And we'll talk about it coming up with an expert in just about a half hour from now.

Also, I want to give you an update now on New Zealand and gun control.

New Zealand,

tell me the story, Pat, as you remember what happened with the gun control in New Zealand.

How'd this happen?

Well, they had the terrible mass shooting where was it 56 people were killed or slaughtered?

And obviously, you know, that only happens here.

So they were so stunned that it happened somewhere else, they immediately, the legislature, legislative parliament immediately went into gear.

And in a vote that was, I think it was 119 to 1, they voted not just to, not just to ban guns, but to confiscate them too.

And

they offered an incentive where they would buy back, which is kind of a weird term since they didn't own the guns in the first place.

How can you buy back something you didn't own?

Anyway, they were going to bribe people to turn in their guns.

And there was what?

Okay.

1.2 to 1.5 million of them.

Yeah.

So

here's the update.

Now remember, this vote happened in parliament.

Only one person stood against it.

Everybody was for it.

All the representation of the people.

Everyone was for it.

And New Zealand is so brave.

They are finally,

the people know.

The people know.

And they're finally getting rid of these 1.5 million guns.

So the buyback began.

And how many weapons, as of last week, of the 1.5 have been turned in by the general public?

Well, I'm going to say

maybe just a little over a million.

They probably still have some work to do.

Probably another half million to get out of here.

Are you being sarcastic?

If you're sarcastic?

Yes.

What do you think?

What do you think?

If you know the number, don't say it.

What do you actually think that number?

The way the story was framed, if you didn't know the number, the way the story has been framed in the press.

I would have thought that they were a good deal towards getting to where they needed to be.

I would have thought that they were well on their way to achieving the goal of getting everybody's guns out of their homes.

Well on their way.

I don't know, three-quarters of the way there?

Maybe half of the way there, even.

Maybe half of the way.

Yeah.

Well,

that would be about 700,000, and they're at 700.

Just not 1,000, just at 700.

From what

700,000.

And they got 700 guns.

This shows a couple of things.

First of all,

this is what is happening all around the world.

The people who are in power and proclaim to represent the people do not represent the people.

They represent themselves.

They represent the collective thought of giant state, but they do not represent the people.

It's not a representative government in Russia.

It's not in China.

It's not in Europe.

It's not in England.

It's not in Australia.

It's not in New Zealand.

It's not in the United States.

These people are enacting laws that the people do not agree with.

and they're walking in lockstep and I warn I warn the leadership of the world you can only trample on people and their rights for so long before they rise up now

New Zealand has just trampled and they've well they can protect themselves against 700 people

but the 1.5 million that have guns,

they're not going to take it it forever.

And this is what is, to me, this is what this story is about.

When I saw that only 700 people turned in their guns, now what's going to happen?

Well, they're going to have to happen now.

They're going to have to go get the guns now.

Yes.

They have to.

So now they're saying, now they're saying that they have, now there's a black market, and we can't have the black market.

Oh, really?

We could have told you there would be a black market.

The only people that

are using guns to kill people usually are the black market buyers.

But now you've made every gun into a black market.

So now they're saying we have to have a registry for all guns.

So if you, now think of this, think of this.

If you had a gun,

They're going to say, okay, you got to turn it in and we'll buy it from you.

But 1.5 million people didn't do that.

So now they're going to say, okay, well, now you have to come in and register your gun.

Why would I register my gun if I'm not turning it in in the first place?

I'm going to register it so you know who I am, so you can charge me with a crime of not turning in my gun.

I don't think so.

So now they have you breaking the law twice.

Twice.

They're making all of us into criminals.

So they've taken law-abiding citizens and they said we're going to pass a law, get rid of the guns.

They didn't do it because they don't agree with it.

Then they're saying, now we're going to have to register the guns.

People are not going to register.

So they're going to be felons.

What they're doing is they've created a country of felons that are peaceful.

Now, in Australia, how many they've had this going on forever, and it's worked fabulously, right, Pat?

I mean,

just perfectly.

Yeah, and it's been 20-some years, right, since they did it.

It's been 20 years.

And if we could just be as good as Australia, because they banned guns, they got rid of their guns.

It's utopia now there.

So,

how many, right?

How many, what percentage of guns that were known to be owned

by Australians, but not, and I'm talking semi-automatic, they call them self-loading rifles.

Self-looking.

Self-loading.

Self-loading.

I'd like a self-loading magazine.

I'd like that.

It'd save my thumbs.

I want self-loading magazines, for the love of Pete.

Self-loading guns.

The bullets just jumped into this gun.

Anyway, so these are semi-automatics.

So

the percentage

that have been turned in in the last 20 years.

Were they registered prior to that?

They were not registered.

They were not registered.

No, but

the government knew of the sales, but they were not registered.

Okay.

So they knew that they had this number of guns out in Australia.

that were semi-automatic.

They ban everything.

What is the percentage of just the semi-automatics that came back in?

Real guess or sarcastic guess?

Real

guess?

I bet less than 10%.

I would guess less than 10%.

Okay, remember, this has been going on for 20 years.

Yeah.

It's 20%.

Oh, it is 20%.

So 80%.

They did that.

80% of.

Yeah.

But it's still 80%.

Everybody's holding them up to be these great, oh, you know, Australia, they get it.

Oh, New Zealand, they get it.

New Zealand turned in 700 guns since the ban.

And in 20 years of a semi-automatic ban, only 20% of those guns have been turned in.

All you've done is you've made good guys criminals.

And what a lesson will happen here.

Well, the same thing.

That lesson will not be learned by the left.

It won't.

They won't look to Australia and say, well, that's not working.

They won't look to New Zealand and say, wow, that's really not working.

They will say, well, we're different.

We can do it better.

Because that's what progressives always say.

But you also have to remember, I really believe that totalitarianism, which I think these progressives are into, you can call it communism, fascism, totalitarianism.

It's absolute government rule.

That's what we're shooting for.

Forget the ideology.

People are shooting for absolute rule.

And

part of absolute rule is to make enough rules to where you can arrest anyone.

So it doesn't matter if they collect the guns.

If they can make everyone a criminal in some way or another, when they want to arrest you,

They'll be able to come into your house.

They'll find the guns and then they'll have something to arrest you for.

And you'll go away for a long, long time.

That's why I hate the expression: well, I'm not doing anything wrong.

I don't care if they're listening.

I'm not doing anything wrong.

I don't care if they fill in the blank because you're not the one who decides if you're doing something wrong or not.

The government is.

And that's where the problem lies.

And it's not.

I mean, for instance, there was a story today.

I want to see if I can find this for you real quick.

There was a story today.

You know who Steve Wozniak is?

Oh, yeah.

Co-founder of Apple.

Okay, so Steve, yeah, co-founder of Apple.

So Steve Wozniak came out

just

this week, and he said, everybody has to cancel Facebook.

He said, you know,

some people can't because it's their business, et cetera, et cetera.

He said, but the average person can, and you have to find a way to get off of Facebook.

Get off of Facebook.

He did.

He got off of it.

It is.

You did?

He did.

Wozniak did.

Yeah, he did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would get off if

it wasn't for business,

I would get off as well.

He says there are many different kinds of people, and some of the benefits of Facebook are worth the loss of privacy.

But to many like myself, my recommendation is to most people, you should figure out a way to get off of Facebook.

Mark Zuckerberg buys all the houses around his for privacy.

He buys extra lots in Hawaii around his house for privacy.

But oh, our privacy hasn't been respected and watched over.

He says they are listening to you.

They are watching.

He says people think they have a level of privacy that they no longer have.

Why don't they give people a choice?

Let me pay a certain amount and

you'll keep my data more secure and private than everyone else handling it for handing it over to advertisers.

He said, everything,

everything about you, they can measure your heartbeat with lasers now.

They can listen to you with a lot of different devices.

Who knows if my cell phone is listening right now?

But I know Alexa has already has been in the news a lot.

You should worry.

You're having conversations that you think are private or think are to yourself.

You're saying words that really shouldn't be listened to because you're not expecting them to be listened to by other ears.

There's almost no way to stop it.

That's Steve Wozniak.

Back in just a minute.

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If you watched HBO's Chernobyl,

you saw something,

thousands died, and it was a planetary problem.

Our next guest says, HBO's not telling the truth.

And he has evidence.

Thank you very much, Hillary.

It's going to be a fascinating, fascinating hour.

We have a guy who really, if he wasn't honest, he would not be on the show

because he wouldn't be able to, he would say, oh, my gosh, Glenn Beck.

Oh, no, I can't.

And I would say, oh, my gosh, oh, we can't have him on.

But because we're both looking for truth, we can actually have a conversation.

And I am really excited about his appearance because there is a big big thing that we both agree on.

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You are about to hear, I think, a model conversation.

Two people who probably disagree on an awful lot,

however, have some really big key points that they agree on

and will listen and have a conversation with one another, even though I don't think we're supposed to.

I don't think so.

I'm going to get heat for having him on and he's going to get heat for being on, I'm sure.

I don't think either one of us care because what he has to talk about is a pretty important correction on something that we have all seen as Americans or many of us have seen if you watch HBO's Chernobyl.

They present this as the true story.

Boy, did they mislead us.

Michael Schellenberger,

he's next.

This is the Glenbeck program.

So we know that Google and YouTube aren't just silencing conservatives online.

They are also manipulating their algorithms to interfere now with the 2020 election.

This is not me saying this.

This is a guy from Harvard who has been studying it and is actually a Clinton supporter and saw how Google is manipulating algorithms in a very dangerous way.

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Michael Schellenberger is a guy who, on paper, should not be on this program.

He shouldn't want to come on this program, and I shouldn't want to have him.

But I think he's an honest broker of information.

He is the founder and president of Environmental Progress.

He has been an environmental and social justice advocate for over 25 years.

Again, not something that I look for in a resume on people that I have on the program.

He is also Time Magazine's Hero of the Environment Green Book Award winner, founder and president, as I said, of Environmental Progress.

But he is not just a climate guru.

He's an honest climate guru.

And I can't have a conversation with people if they claim to be for the planet and against global warming and they're crying catastrophe unless you do at least one of these two things.

You're a vegan

or you understand that nuclear power is the only option that we really have that would be able to replace the energy that we would lose.

Michael Schellenberger is a strong advocate for nuclear energy.

Welcome to the program, Michael.

How are you?

Good.

Thanks so much for having me on, Glenn.

You bet.

So did you think twice when we called?

No, not

at this point, no.

I mean,

I like talking to people that I don't agree with on everything.

That's what America is all about, isn't it?

I mean, I think we've lost sight of that.

But it takes, Michael, you know, to have a conversation like this, it takes somebody that is willing to

be honest, at least with their selves.

And if you hear something that

you agree with that disagrees with your point, you have to be honest enough to go, huh?

I didn't know that.

I have to look into that more.

And if that's true, I might be wrong.

And I don't think a lot of people are willing to do that, especially when it comes to nuclear energy.

It's crazy how people are just zealots against it.

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, I was anti-nuclear for most of my life.

You know,

I wasn't a deep thinker in my opposition to it.

But, yeah, when you start doing the arithmetic, very simple math of how do you transition away from fossil fuels to clean sources of energy, there's just no way to do it without nuclear power.

And that became clear to me about 10 years ago.

And

ever since then, honestly, when people ask me if I'm concerned about climate change, what I say is, well, tell me whether or not we're expanding or shrinking nuclear, because If we were doing a lot of nuclear around the world and expanding it in the United States, I probably wouldn't be as concerned about climate change.

So for me, the relationship is quite direct.

The more nuclear power,

the cooler the planet,

the less nuclear power,

the more heat we're going to have.

I have to tell you, Michael, 10, 11 years ago, GM lent me one of their hydrogen cars, which was one of the first things the Obama administration did, was make sure that that was shelved.

And I thought this was great

only because the power,

just by leaving the rods out at night, all of the hydrogen we could possibly want, which is clean, could be made in a nuclear power plant while everybody is asleep.

We'd have almost an endless supply of hydrogen.

Where the way we have these electric cars, you're still burning coal to make the elect you know, the little thing in your walls not a little magic box.

That power is coming from something.

Yeah, I mean, what I worry about, I mean, ba basically the trend over time has been to have have lighter and lighter vehicles.

So there's a process called dematerialization where we just use less natural resource as we become wealthier in the society and that's a really positive trend for the environment.

So yeah, what I worry about, because I live in California and there's just a lot of Teslas.

They're really heavy cars, so there's a huge amount of material throughput, a lot of mining, a lot of resource extraction for those cars.

Hydrogen fuel cells, totally different, much lighter.

They have

They can travel much farther.

There's a bunch of barriers to getting there, but for sure, I think over the next century, we're going to be moving towards some amount of hydrogen fuel cells.

All right, so I want to come back to nuclear energy, but the reason why I wanted to have you on today is I heard an interview with you

talking about HBO's Chernobyl.

Now, I watched that thing and like a dope

took it to be...

I mean, how could they possibly say no no no no there there are some things that we changed and there are some things that aren't exactly right but it's really only like that one scientist represents a group of scientists no when I'm listening to you almost everything that I saw was not right in Chernobyl anything that counted can you take us through this

yeah I mean it's a very terrifying show I think it's understandable that anybody would watch it would be anti-nuclear by the end of it and what was so galling about it is that the creator of it, NHBO, repeatedly claimed that it was based on science, based on facts, and that they only embellished some kind of character details, things that were really unimportant.

Well, so, and I was honestly, I've written so much on Chernobyl because Chernobyl just terrified me when it occurred.

I was about 15 at the time, 1986, and it was actually one of the main when I changed my mind about nuclear,

what really changed it was when I went and read the actual science about Chernobyl from the World Health Organization.

The United Nations has done many studies.

And the first thing you discover when you read the science is just how few people died.

So three people were killed in the fire the night in the fire and the explosion the night of the accident.

And then 28 firefighters died several weeks later from acute radiation syndrome.

Although one of the most interesting findings when you read the material is that it's not clear how many of the firefighters died from acute radiation syndrome and how many of them may have died just from being burned from exposure to the fire.

They may have survived if they hadn't hadn't been burned by the fire as well because that opened up their immune systems to

made them more vulnerable to acute radiation syndrome.

And then after that,

all we know is that there will be an estimated 16,000 cases of thyroid cancer.

And while that may sound like a lot, the mortality rate from thyroid cancer is about 1%.

So very few people die from it.

It's easy to treat.

So that brings you to about 160 deaths over an 80-year lifetime.

So you're looking at something

around 200 deaths total, which is just, I mean, in any comparison to anything, is nothing.

I mean, we estimate that somewhere around 7 million people die every year from ordinary air pollution, smoke, not just fossil fuels, but burning wood and dung in poor countries.

You know, the number of deaths from people looking at their smartphones while walking or driving in their car, it appears to be somewhere around 4,000.

In fact, the death rate from pedestrian deaths and automobile accidents has gone up.

That's just annually in the United States.

So, I mean, 200 deaths total and meanwhile no deaths from radiation from Three Mile Island no deaths from radiation from Fukushima it turns out that nuclear is not only the safest way to make electricity it's literally one of the safest technologies in our society I mean it's so shocking it it's so sort of so shocking it's understandable that nobody believes it because when you watch the HBO special you think that thousands of people must have died and the reality is just very different from that.

So can I first let me just get this out of the way and then I'd like to take you through the movie step by step.

The obvious thing to say when you hear what you just said was, well, the Russians hid it all.

The Russians didn't track it.

Because HBO says about the Bridge of Death, which I know you'll get into,

that they didn't track it, so we don't know for sure.

But the Russians weren't the only ones interested in tracking this,

right?

It was the international community that...

Yeah, I mean, this is really outrageous.

This is a very easy fact to check.

There were many, many studies, dozens, hundreds of studies published in peer reviewed journals done by foreign scientists going to Chernobyl within days of the accident.

For many years afterwards, I interviewed many of the top radiation scientists in the world, including the founder of the Chernobyl Tissue Bank, which collects tissue samples so that we can really carefully track how many people were injured or harmed.

I mean, it's literally one of the best studied industrial accidents in human history.

And the people who studied it were our academics with no association with the Russian or the Soviet government at the time, you know, incredibly prestigious experts.

Sometimes people say things like, well, we really don't know.

Radiation is so mysterious.

That's complete nonsense.

We've been studying radiation's effect on health since 1900 marie curie and her husband studied it you know 120 years ago so we know a huge amount about the impacts of radiation so the so the idea that there's all this uncertainty or that there was some sort of a cover-up is just complete nonsense

so the the

let's take one of the big things and that is the firefighter that's in the hospital and his wife comes.

There's a couple of things that are completely flipped upside down.

For instance,

the nurses are warning her,

don't get close to him, don't go beyond that plastic

cover, because the radiation will kill you.

When, indeed, the truth is the exact opposite.

She was probably killing him by going past that plastic sheet.

That's right.

It's pretty outrageous, this part of it, which is this depiction of radiation as contagious, as a kind of virus.

And on the one hand, you kind of go, you know, I guess some people kind of go, hey, it's just a TV show.

But here's the problem.

The fears of radiation and the fears of the people who were exposed to radiation are deadly.

In fact,

in all the public health reports,

it's really sad how many people's lives were hurt.

People People slipped into depression, anxiety.

It turns out that it's really bad for your health to have doctors or others tell you that you've been contaminated, that you're poisonous, to be ostracized from your community, which is what happened both in Chernobyl and in Japan.

We know it's just horrible to be stigmatized, to be

ostracized.

And so we see huge mental health consequences of that.

So yeah, I mean, basically,

if you have acute radiation syndrome,

those firefighters that were exposed to the radiation, once their clothes are removed and they are cleaned, there is no risk of any radioactive particles affecting anybody.

So, yeah, it's like.

Okay, so hang on just a second.

Yeah, go ahead.

I need to take a break and then I'm going to come back because this is fascinating, especially when it gets down all the way down to the baby.

You'll see, you'll begin to see how off this special really is.

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We pause for 10 seconds, station ID.

Okay, so once the radiation is

washed off of somebody, they're not contagious.

But as we saw them, they became like these almost these transparent people.

So if she was going in there, there was a real high risk that she would infect him, you know, with just something that she had on her or sneeze or anything, because his body wasn't able to fight that infection, right?

That's yeah, you got it exactly right.

I mean, that's why we protect patients whose immune systems are compromised in those plastic sheets.

So, yeah, I mean,

it comes up repeatedly.

I'm writing a book about nuclear, and what we find repeatedly in pop culture and movies is this idea that radiation is a kind of evil demon or something, as opposed to just being a physical part of the natural world.

Radiation is completely natural, it turns out.

And so it sort of gives you this sense of contamination, that it's a virus, sort of a zombie

like a zombie movie in a way, you know, and they make it like a horror movie, which you can understand for entertainment value, but it causes real harm in the real world, and particularly Fukushima, where, you know, people were ostracized.

In fact, it turns out that people from Fukushima have had a hard time, you know, forming relationships, dating, getting married,

out of this idea that

they're kind of contaminated or something will happen to their children.

It's quite disturbing when you consider the effects of that fear.

Speaking of children, the child, and I know this is possible, is it not?

With mercury.

So if a mom eats a lot of fish, the mercury can be transferred to the baby, right?

Yes.

Definitely.

This doesn't happen with radiation.

First of all, he was clean, and so there was no radiation coming off of him.

But tell me about what happened with the baby.

Well, they claim that the pregnant wife who visits

her husband, who's the firefighter who was exposed to radiation, they claim that the baby absorbed the husband's radiation and died.

And I tracked down the source of this idea to a book called Voices from Chernobyl, which is a very famous book.

It is not a peer-reviewed piece of science.

And what I discovered is that not only do we not know how the baby died, we don't even know that there was a baby or that the baby died.

It's all just completely hearsay.

I interviewed scientists about this, and they said, absolutely, there's just no way that that baby would have absorbed radiation from the father by the mother sitting at the bedside, much less protected the mother.

I mean, you're just dealing with absolute

fantasy.

So, and you know, and what's so disturbing about it, of course, is that the relationship between a mother and her baby is sacred.

It's precious.

We care a lot about babies because they're so vulnerable.

The relationship, you know, I think women in general are more afraid of nuclear than men.

We find that around the world.

And understandably so, because Hollywood has terrified them for 60, 70 years about radiation, which is quite a manipulation and something I think that feminists and people that care about mothers and just ordinary folks ought to be really concerned about.

So I was talking to somebody just last night, and I said that you were going to be on the program, and they said, ask them about the mutant dogs.

And I'm like, mutant dogs?

I've never even heard of the mutant dogs.

I want to get into the mutant dogs with you,

Michael, and a couple of other things

that are not true in this, and then talk to you about the state of nuclear energy and how we are going to flip this around.

If this narrative can even be flipped around at this point, because it is so deeply embedded in our culture and in

our minds, that it is so dangerous.

We'll continue our conversation with Michael Schellenberger coming up in just a second.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.

I am a proud supporter of the Second Amendment.

I actually like all the amendments.

Yeah, all the amendments.

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In the 1950s, Walt Disney published a book and did a series on our friend the atom.

You don't hear about our friend the atom anymore

because nuclear energy is, oh, so very dangerous.

But none of that is true.

Even Chernobyl, which

when you say the word Chernobyl, it's the most dangerous place on earth.

It is a place place that no one can go to for 30,000 years.

It's a place that you have to kill all of the animals because they're eating all the vegetation and they're turning into mutant dogs.

We have Michael Schellenberger here.

He's the founder and president of Environmental Progress.

He has an environmental view to nuclear power.

And

welcome to the show.

He's done the research on Chernobyl.

Tell me about the mutant dogs that have to be mutant because they're eating all the vegetation.

Yeah, well, first,

there were no mutant dogs.

I hope that any viewer that watches a movie where there's a scene where they literally are killing puppies, that that sends some sort of signal that they're being manipulated.

I mean,

I just kind of laughed when we got to that part of the show.

It was like, really?

You're going to

know the truth about it.

When I saw that, I honestly thought that's what they had to do.

It just makes sense the way it's framed because you're not engaging your brain.

The minute I heard you say that radiation's not contagious, I was like, well, wait a minute.

Yeah, so why are they killing?

All they have to do is just wash everything clean, and why would they be killing the dogs?

Yeah,

it doesn't make any sense.

I mean, you know, you might kill dogs if you're worried they're going to have rabies.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with radiation or Chernobyl or nuclear.

You know, you want to make sure that if there is an accident like that and some amount of radioactive particulate matter escapes the plant, that you monitor the food, you know, so you don't let people eat meats that have from cows that ate a lot of grass that had radiation on it.

It's very easy to do.

The Japanese did a very good job in Japan.

In fact, that's, I mean, I think this is the one thing people don't understand is that people continue to live and work near Chernobyl, right near it, for many years after the accident.

And the way that they protect themselves is that they don't eat the local foods.

If you eat a pound of mushrooms every day from right next to the plant, you're probably going to have some problems.

But if you don't do that, if you eat food from imported outside, you're fine.

It's not like a, there's a sense in which people have that there's sort of this ambient, radioactive air that if you breathe it,

you know,

it's just a misunderstanding.

It's this idea, you know, radiation is actual physical objects.

It's physical particulate matter, and if you avoid those, then you avoid the harm that comes from them.

Michael, I think it's best stated as, if you just think of these as little teeny bullets that are constantly fired

for 30,000 years.

Well, this is really at the heart of it, I think.

I mean, they say in their, they say, yeah, every time you're exposed to radiation, it's like a bullet.

Well, that's ridiculous because, of course, we're exposed to huge quantities of radiation just living our lives, especially flying on airplanes.

I'm from Colorado, which has much higher levels of radiation because there's a lot of uranium in the granite rock.

And it turns out in Colorado, people live longer than they do in other parts of the United States for reasons that have nothing to do with radiation.

So, but it really gets to this idea, and I think that this is the, at bottom, the fears of nuclear energy is a fear of nuclear weapons.

And so you have

the most terrifying parts of the movie are where they claim falsely that the nuclear meltdown

was a nuclear bomb going off.

And this is something that I believed when I was a boy.

This is something that polling shows almost a third of the public believes consciously.

I suspect more people believe it kind of unconsciously.

But literally in the movie, they say, at this point, Chernobyl became a nuclear bomb.

And that is just outrageous.

Physically impossible for a nuclear plant to become a nuclear bomb.

It's because the fuel is enriched to under 20%.

A bomb needs to be enriched.

The fuel needs to be enriched over 90%.

It's very basic.

This is like, you know, this is elementary school level stuff that everybody should know.

So that's what I think was, that was the big fear that they were doing and the big lie of Chernobyl.

And shame on the creators for perpetuating that.

I mean, it was the same lie that they did in China Syndrome.

There's anti-nuclear movies that have been made all around the world, and they all do the same thing.

They all claim that a nuclear plant,

when the uranium melts, it's somehow equivalent to a nuclear bomb going off, and it's just outrageous and ridiculous and should be subject to public scorn.

So, Michael,

was the

light that was shooting out,

was that even like that?

And the helicopter that flew over

that all of a sudden has stopped working?

How much of that was that?

The helicopter is just.

Yeah, I mean, there were some reports of blue light, certainly not anything like they showed where you could see it from outside the plant.

The helicopter is just outrageous as well.

I mean, so a helicopter

in the real in real in the real world, there was a helicopter that

many months after the accident, after the accident had been long since controlled, a helicopter hit a chain dangling from a crane and it crashed.

Well, in the show,

they strongly suggest that the helicopter pilot flew too close to the radiation and was affected by the radiation somehow, like became kind of, it looked like he almost became kind of drunk or disoriented and then hit the chain.

That is just nonsense.

I mean obviously you don't want to fly,

you don't want to stand right next to that radioactive fuel.

That's why they needed to cover it up.

But there was absolutely no relationship and

giving this sense that radiation is this kind of super potent

toxin.

And of course if you're standing right next to a nuclear reactor, it's very hot and it has a lot of radiation, but it just doesn't have the impacts that they depicted on the show.

Aaron Ross Powell, isn't that all kind of proven out now, Michael, Michael, by the fact that the wildlife has moved back into Chernobyl?

People haven't, but wildlife is thriving all through Chernobyl.

Oh, yeah.

And not only that,

and of course, you know,

I have a mixed feeling towards it because I'm a pretty strong conservationist, and I think that it's great to have what we call rewilding.

So Chernobyl is amazing.

So, you know, there's this incredible, the wildlife has returned.

There's lynx, you know, which is a big cat species.

There's bear, there's wolves.

The bird life is amazing.

Thriving, you know, thriving

fauna.

And there's a group of scientists that claim that they can find some problem in the forests at microorganism levels.

But you're having this thriving fauna, so if there were some real problem with it, you would see it in the animals and you don't.

In fact, I just interviewed one of the scientists who's one of the lead experts on studying the return of wildlife and he says that they're trying to make it a World Heritage Site under the United Nations because it's just such a magnificent place.

My only ambivalence is that the evidence is pretty clear that they really didn't need to evacuate all of those people for so long and it was the evacuation that you know, created so much of the harm, the anxiety, the depression.

I mean, clearly people could have moved back in after a few months, especially if they had relied on food imported from the outside.

But as a conservationist, it's hard not to take some, you know, to be excited about it because you're just seeing one of the greatest wildlife reserves in the world and certainly one of the greatest in Europe.

Could people live there now safely?

Yeah, oh, and they do.

They do, and they do.

Yeah, they do.

Yeah, and like I said, it's once you understand what you're dealing with, it's just don't go into the, you know, don't go into the forest and collect a pound of mushrooms and eat a pound of mushrooms every week.

You know,

so it's pretty basic stuff.

You know, they overreacted in Fukushima, needing to kind of change the soil.

You don't need to do that.

We don't do that with other things like chemical accidents.

You just you know, the rule that you learn in your college ecological biology class is the solution to pollution is dilution.

Same thing for radioactive particulate matter over time, it just dilutes.

If you you know, and radiation, the great thing about it is that it's so easy to detect and monitor.

In In fact, most of the bodily our bodily processes we understand because we attached radioactive tracers to various functions.

So the great thing about radiation is that we can detect it at very low levels.

We know a huge amount about it.

We know what doses cause harm.

And we can put those doses into perspective.

I mean,

it just turns out that

of all the things that kill us, and we're all going to die,

radiation is just a really tiny thing compared to all of the other stuff, diet, exercise, drinking, smoking, all the things that.

And scaring people about radiation, making them anxious, making them depressed, contributed to all of those negative outcomes, including too much drinking, too much smoking, just too much worrying.

And that's the real harm of Chernobyl.

It's not just, I'm not just like a I'm not a TV critic.

I don't really care if T V distorts reality.

What I care about is this kind of propaganda hurts people and it kills people, and it terrifies people, and it has real harm in the real world.

And in that harm, it massively outweighs any of the harms from radiation.

And

the other problem with it, I think, is that it's harming future generations because it just keeps embedding in us.

This is dangerous when, indeed, we need nuclear energy.

If we didn't have this irrational fear, the world would be a better, safer place all the way around.

Do you see us getting to a place to where there is a tipping point going back the other way?

I do.

I mean, I think the thing you have to understand about nuclear, which is just to remind ourselves, this is the process of splitting the nucleus and the atom to release heat.

It's a completely revolutionary thing.

It's like the invention of a whole new branch of science.

It's like chemistry.

And we knew before we did it that it would be this incredible source of energy and would also be an incredible weapon.

And I think that the fact that those two things were born at the same moment has affected our perception of the technology.

But even if you're skeptical about climate change, we still have 7 million deaths a year from air pollution.

Even if you think that number is exaggerated by

100-fold, you still have a lot of, go to Delhi,

India, or Beijing, and tell me that living with that kind of pollution is pleasant.

Nuclear makes pollution-free energy.

It does so with tiny amounts of natural resource.

I mean, that's why nuclear is the best from an environmental perspective, is that a single Coke can of uranium fuel would give me all the energy I need for my entire high-energy life.

I mean, it includes all my jet travel, which is excessive.

The amount of land that's required, so consider that it takes 450 times more land to generate the same amount of electricity from a solar farm in California, which is a very sunny place, than it does from a nuclear plant.

We have a nuclear plant in California, our last one, they're trying to shut it down, produces power for 3 million people on three

acres of land.

I mean, just a tiny quantity of land, you know, or

three football fields sacking next to each other produces enough electricity for three million Californians.

Well, if you care about the natural environment, if you're worried at all about protecting beautiful spaces, and again, this is beyond politics.

I think the environment unnecessarily divides us.

Here, we all want the same things.

We want to have more natural areas.

We want to have a high-energy life, because that's a prosperous life.

And we want to reduce pollution.

Only nuclear can do those things.

And so I do think that we'll get over these fears.

In a sense, 75 years since the creation of nuclear energy seems like a long time, but when you realize that nuclear is what's going to power human civilization for thousands of years, I think it's understandable that it's taken a while for us to get our heads heads around this revolutionary technology.

Michael, thank you for being on the program.

Thank you for clearing this up.

And I really respect your point of view, especially on this and your honesty on it.

Michael Schellenberger,

you can find him at environmentalprogress.org.

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so last night I was having a dinner with 12 people we call it jokingly call it a conspiracy dinner

and we have it in a basement of a restaurant here in Manhattan and

and You just have to be a smart individual and a conservative.

Well, last night we had two people who are new to the conservative movement.

They have kind of shed their liberal skin because they have seen what's coming.

The last question I asked was, how do you think Trump's going to fare in the next election?

The liberal people said landslide because they've seen the unhappiness

of of the people that they're surrounded by with their field and how crazy it's getting.

And they both said landslide.

Nine out of the 12 people there said landslide.

And it varied from, I think it could be, to absolute historic landslide.

It was a pretty invigorating debate last night and discussion.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.