Ep 39 | Bridget Phetasy | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Today's podcast guest is somebody who is going to make you, I think, belly laugh, made me belly laugh.

She's naturally funny, she's naturally warm, and she is uncommonly frank.

She has not had an easy life, but her perspective is phenomenal.

I don't think we agree on very much.

She has always been a liberal, but now she finds herself outside of the liberal circle because she sobered up.

She was like, yeah, now that I see things clearly, I'm not so sure, but she doesn't know she's a conservative either.

What she is, is real and real funny.

I saw you on the Rubin report.

Oh, okay.

I love Dave.

I love Dave, too.

And

you said that a friend of yours wigged out because you were coming here.

Oh, yeah.

Wigged out.

Like, what does that mean?

I mean, do you really want to know all the things I've been told?

Yeah.

So you've been told by more than one person.

Well, I just, I didn't really, I don't, I've stopped telling people that I'm what I'm doing in advance because the

pre-backlash and Dave and I talked about this on the podcast about how I'm doing this article about self-censorship.

And then everybody tried to tell me not to do the article.

So I just don't even need to hear everyone's opinions.

I feel comfortable in my path and what I'm doing.

And I love having conversations with anyone.

And yeah, somebody the other night I did a podcast and we were chatting afterwards.

And they're like, why are you going to Dallas?

And I said, oh, I'm going to do the unbox podcast.

And he said, you realize that

you are talking to somebody who's the epitome of evil, right?

Like, this is a fact.

Wow.

Not as if it's like up for debate.

It was a dead fact that...

And it's hard for me to even take anyone seriously who views the world like that because you're flattening everything and everyone.

And all the shades of gray are gone.

Now it's just good.

And I was just talking to one of your producers before this about the night being in LA and the election and the night before.

I was in a yoga class and my yoga instructor was like, I can't teach.

She was walking around.

I can't relax.

I can't teach.

And she said, I feel like this is the battle between good against evil.

I'm like, just teach a yoga class, lady.

Like, isn't yoga supposed to be against, you know, like, help us with this?

Help us in these.

Yoga should help you.

Yeah, it should.

Well,

here I am.

I am thrilled to have you.

I've read your writing, and I think you're brilliant.

Thank you.

Brilliant writer.

I have a hard time accepting compliments, but it's going to be awesome.

I think you're

an Ernest Hemingway.

Okay, thank you.

No, seriously, because you have a lot in common with him in some ways.

You are brutally honest.

I think that's what makes you

refreshing.

It's not your writing.

Your writing is beautiful.

Thank you.

But your

attitude is like, oh, thank God.

It's like you're in a desert and it's a drink of water.

You know what I mean?

It's just a big glass of water with a sign that says, there's more here.

Yeah.

But you are, you're just willing to put literally everything out.

Yeah.

I mean, what's the point of going through any of it if I can't help other people or help?

That was something I learned even writing at Playboy.

But what's interesting, again, is that when I was speaking to somebody about this just yesterday, I've become a firebrand for being

like saying what people think or being

reasonable.

That seems, that's not, it shouldn't be controversial.

I said this on Dave.

It shouldn't be controversial that somebody is looking at both sides, evaluating them and saying, okay, here's where you're crazy.

Here's where you're crazy.

I agree with some of what you're saying.

That's the way this is supposed to work.

It's not supposed to be Game of Thrones.

So,

conservatives, what do you think a conservative is?

Well, this is

something that's interesting because I don't know.

I don't either.

I mean, I really don't either.

I don't know anymore, and I don't know when I kind of stumbled, and this is the book I'd like to write, is how I ended up going from basically getting sober.

And they say when you get sober, you aren't going to recognize who you are.

And I'm like, I'm a conservative.

now i really need to drink didn't see that one coming like light years away and um writing for playboy and then here you know if there's and i was joking today with my friend if there's any evidence of a simulation it is this interaction right now this moment is evident you would never have you would have never pictured yourself no if someone had told me five and a half years ago like you're gonna get sober and in five and a half years you're gonna be on Glenn Beck I'm like give me whatever drugs you're on and need them now

it's just not it wasn't and it wasn't like what I've realized is really how ignorant I am and I've been kind of joking about

how I'm the moron majority I was I'm and I mean that lovingly but most

I was working and

Just trying to get by and waitressing and wanted to be a writer, by the way, maybe like drunk for 20 20 years and had my head down.

And then suddenly I started, I got sober,

started writing, which was always my dream.

And then the election happened.

And suddenly I'm in the, like, caught in the crossfire of these culture wars.

I'm like, did I even know what it meant to be a Democrat?

Did I even know what it meant to do?

I don't know anything about.

Right.

I just know that.

I sobered up at 30.

Yeah.

And I realized I'm a moral.

That's

a

that's really the moment you're catching me at.

And it's around that time, I think they say too, around five years where you pull your your head out of your bum.

And so I definitely don't feel, I feel out of my depth most of the time.

I, I feel

you will remember this as the best time of your life because you are, you are at such a steep learning curve where you're just questioning everything, where you're like, because I, I took everything out of me because I was like, I don't know anything.

I know what people told me, but I didn't learn any of this on my own.

So I took everything out of me and I couldn't afford to go to college.

I went one semester.

That's me.

So I went to the library and to the bookstore, and I got all the books of the people I think would hate each other.

And I would, this is what I'm doing right now.

Is that

what you're doing?

And you're like,

if I could just get these two to argue, you know, and see if there's any intersection, because where it intersects, that's universal truth.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Where they agree, okay, we know that's true because these guys don't agree on anything.

Right.

And I started putting it all back in, and it's hard.

Right.

It's hard because you're like, I remember so many times going,

no, I don't want to be.

I'm, right?

I'm a Mormon.

Right.

I didn't grow up a Mormon.

I chose to be a Mormon.

Nobody chooses that.

Nobody's like, hey, I want to be a pariah and a weirdo.

I did not, that's the last thing.

And I remember going,

oh my God, yeah.

And, but that's good.

It is.

It is.

It's, I, it's being, I said yesterday, I feel like I'm playing a giant high stakes game of improv where it's like, yes, and I will go on Glenn Beck.

And yes, and why not?

I mean, it's it, and but it's invigorating.

But you're not,

but you're not just,

you know, there's a part of Ernest Hemingway that is reckless.

And

I don't think you're reckless.

I don't think you're just like, I'll be in Israel.

No, no.

Because I deeply care about humanity.

And so I think the fear is when I get the non-stop

backlash of how much water I'm carrying for Nazis, there is the, you know, self, the self-reflect.

It's a lot of water, apparently.

I know, I know.

I got the

Defender of Israel award from Benjamin Netanyahu.

He presents it.

At the same time, I'm being called a Nazi.

This happens a lot.

This happens a lot.

I find myself, too, just being in that space

taking hits on behalf of no one, really, but I'll be getting called a Nazi on the left and getting attacked by the alt-right.

And that's always a weird thing where I'm like, can you tell the alt-right that?

Right.

So they stop doxing me.

I'd appreciate that if they had that memo.

Aren't they, in some ways, I think?

It's like two sides of the same coin.

They're both big statist, my way or the highway, you know, bullies.

Bullies.

And

again, the openness to have your mind change, to change.

I think that that's

it.

I've had to reinvent myself so many times in my life.

It doesn't scare me to be open to the fact that I don't know anything.

I don't know anything, anything.

And it is embarrassing.

Part of it is embarrassing at how ignorant I am.

It's so embarrassing.

I mean, no, no, it's not.

It's very humbling.

Yes.

You know, that is the point.

We are, you know, most of my problems when I was at Fox, almost every mistake I ever made was because I was certain.

The one thing I'm certain of now, I'm not certain of anything.

I don't know anything.

And

the more you realize,

I don't really know,

the more humble you get and the more willing you're able to.

If I don't sit with somebody I vehemently disagree with, and I think is an honest broker, there's a difference between

there's those people who are not honest brokers.

Right.

But people who are honest brokers, people who are,

I am absolutely willing to change my mind if you can present the facts, you know, and you show me, okay, look,

this and this and this,

this is what it's saying.

Now, we don't know for sure, great.

So you show me the facts.

I'll debate and I'm willing to change if I'm wrong.

I want to be a lot of times I want to be wrong.

Right.

Although it's sometimes hard to prove a negative.

So that is where I have to watch myself because

I'm bad at a lot of this.

Let me prove a negative.

Like coming from a place of,

well, we're not sure.

You can speculate, but then there's...

What I see too is sometimes it's like speculating and then it drifts into like conspiracy theorizing.

And again, I see this, see this like on everywhere, essentially.

So I and I have to watch myself that I'm

I'm very easily

I always come from a place of like, well, I don't know anything could be true, but yeah, no, I don't mean that.

I mean,

because look,

I'm willing to look for answers.

Right.

And if there is an answer and you can show it to me, And I have a different opinion.

Okay.

Well, there's the answer.

And I see it.

I see how it works okay got it now i'm a denier if i if i deny that right however um when there isn't an answer then we both have to agree you have an opinion right i have an opinion right and we're gonna have to work through that right i shouldn't shut you up and you shouldn't shut me up right because

it could go either way we don't know I just it's so interesting to me that

people don't want to talk.

There are people who are untouchables.

You may be one of them.

Where, for instance, you know,

welcome to my college.

There is this kind of idea that you just, if you go, the guilt by association, and this is what I personally, what happens when you're in this space of, I don't know.

Okay, well, what do, what are my values?

This is, what are my values?

You know, I feel like somebody like Ben Shapiro actually has been very inspirational to me and someone who, although we may not agree on everything, he is very value-based.

And he has made me kind of step back and say, what are my values?

I don't, I, I really value free speech.

I was saying this to Dave Rubin, you know, when I went off Twitter for 40 days, it gave me the ability to step back and look at all these little micro arguments that we get into and the little, and it's hard.

I mean, I, I I engage I partake I can't help it the trickster in me the the comedian in me the part of me that likes to get a rise out of people is we're not we're not supposed to know so many people no we're not just not we're not it we're not capable we're we're supposed to know you know Bob, the neighbor on the street who I wave to as I'm driving by and he's watering his lawn.

That's all I know about Bob.

That's all I need to know about about Bob.

And we can all get along.

We are just, we, we,

we're being exposed to all of these people.

Right.

And

some of them are dumb as a box of rocks.

Some of them are,

you know.

It's immersion therapy, you know?

We would dismiss them.

We would know, we would have two conversations with them, one in the convenience store, and we would be like, okay, honey, I just saw Bob in the convenience store.

I talked to him for two minutes.

Don't wave at him anymore.

And then it would be over.

We're engaging with these people all the time, like it matters.

And it doesn't.

It doesn't.

It doesn't.

And yet, here we are.

It's the culture wars are so weird because I, again, and this was something that I was saying on Ruben, and that I have to ask myself: is what is, you know, what, how am I, how am I maybe making this worse?

There is a part of me that, and it again, it's the

part of me that is like South Parkian in my philosophy.

I can't help but think everything is hilarious.

It's another one of my values is comedy.

It just is a value of mine.

I've realized that.

And free speech and comedy are so, you know, they're

yeah, they're necessary and they're necessary for people.

You need to be able to laugh at your pain.

You need to be able to laugh at things that are taboo.

You have to.

You need that release.

It's why dictators don't allow laughter about them.

Yeah.

Because you can belittle it and you can move past it.

Right.

I mean, one of the things that I've noticed, and I was just saying this, is you have to kind of own people in my space, whatever space that is.

I would say James Lindsay is a good example.

The IDW or whatever.

Anyone who's willing to have conversations with the Axis of Evil, the new Axis of Evil.

We are often labeled as grifters, which I feel like is a very convenient way to try and demonize people who are willing to have conversations with people that they might not see eye to eye on every single issue with.

And I just kind of embrace it.

I'm like, yeah, I guess I'm a grifter now.

You're a grifter.

I just had Peter and James here.

Oh, I love them.

Yeah, I love them.

They're brilliant.

James is on my podcast.

Love these guys.

Love them.

Peter's sitting there, and he says, about 40 minutes in,

I have been trying to find things I disagree with you with, and I can't.

And

we are so close to each other.

We've let these lies or these little slivers of us on the edge

allow them to be our entire character.

It's the flattening.

That's what I call it.

It's like everything is just flat.

We are just flattening people.

We're flattening words.

Words are losing meaning.

Like Nazis, for example, were laughing about.

We probably, we should be laughing, but we shouldn't.

You know, it's one of those things.

Kate Smith did a song

and the Yankees and the, what was it, the Flyers?

Take her statue down.

She's Kate Smith did, you know, God Bless America.

Right, right.

She's been dead for like 50 years.

She did a song in 1931 that is called Why Darkies Are Born.

born okay and you hear that and you're like right oh my gosh i can't believe ha why are we canceling dead people they're already canceling right but here's the crazy thing that song was written for a broadway show mocking right um white supremacists right so it was a song it was it was springtime for hitler We've got to, we're going to, Mel Brooks is in trouble, man.

Oh, man.

He's in trouble.

He's in trouble.

Everyone's in trouble.

Everyone is in danger of getting canceled.

And that is the interesting thing that I feel like, you know, when it is serious to me, when I do say, well, what is my role in this?

How can I help in the conversation?

And how am I hurting it?

And

it's a fine line.

It is a fine line.

Because I feel like I have to push the edge in order to get people to feel liberated to talk about things.

I love you.

They

they wouldn't normally talk about.

Yes, they would just even with the I feel like we've been living under mob law since like 2013.

And I mean that by social media mob.

And people always say, well, free speech, you can, you know, they're not going to come arrest you.

No.

But when you take someone in America's livelihood away, you might as well break their kneecaps.

I will tell you that mob law has been around longer than you.

Well, no, no, no.

But I mean, in terms of that, the mobbing, I feel like where we're seeing, I say 2013 just because that was when I really that was the Justine Sacco the girl who got on the plane made the joke and landed and her life was ruined and I was like this is really bad guys.

Yes.

Yes.

This behavior is terrifying.

What's horrible is

we're entering a new phase.

I mean

you know,

the mobs have been destroying and smearing people forever.

Right.

I mean, both sides.

Of course.

Of course.

Okay.

I just only noticed it in 2013.

Yeah, I know, I know.

But

when it turns like it did starting in 2013 to where it's anyone, like when I was at Fox,

oh my gosh,

it was crazy.

But it's part of my job.

Right.

And I was just like you.

I have to do comedy and I have to shake the tree to get people to listen to an hour monologue about Woodrow Wilson.

How do you make that number one on television at five o'clock in the afternoon?

You don't.

So you have to, you have to, you shake the tree.

And so there's that balance and you'll always get some of it wrong.

You always will get some of it wrong.

However, when they start coming after you,

and

they're not just coming after you and destroying you.

They are now coming after you, destroying you, and erasing you.

Right, right.

You're being erased.

Right.

If they can't, if they don't need to replace your image with that cartoon of

a propaganda monster,

then what they do is they just erase you.

Your stuff.

Try to find your writing from Playboy.

It's gone.

It's gone.

And it's gone.

And that is apparently, you know, because they switched servers and perhaps they were trying to

rebrand or pivot and they just wiped the slate clean, which I can't, because it's not just me.

I mean, Kevin Williamson, yeah.

What a surprise.

But

I think even

my friend Zarin, he's a great writer.

I believe his stuff is down.

So I don't want to say it's only.

Okay, so let's not talk about Playboy.

Let's just,

you are.

But it is gone.

It is gone.

And I did get unceremoniously dumped with no advance notice.

That is the truth.

We are developing a world

of

we're book burning.

We're not even book burning, though.

What's interesting is the recent thing of going after the girl who they canceled and then they had her retract her

book before it even got published.

Can't burn a book if it's never been published.

It's like pre-book burning.

Right.

And it's just removing books and things and ideas and people, just gone.

Right.

But then also, we're building ghetto walls.

They're digital ghettos.

You can talk all you want, say whatever you want, but that digital wall is here.

We're not going to let anybody hear you.

So you're still there.

You're still doing your thing.

But you can't make any money.

You can't make any impact.

You can't do anything because they've just said, no, you Jews are fine.

You can just live here in this little area, and we're just going to put a big wall around you.

And it's frightening because

people,

if we were building actual walls, people would say no.

If we were actually removing people from society, we would say no.

Right.

If we would actually burn books, they'd say no.

But it's all virtual.

Interesting.

Interesting.

It is.

It's a weird,

that is the weird part of being in the space

that

I see that it gives the people

more attention.

So the people that they're maybe building walls around, they still have platforms.

But yeah, what do you do when they're

the stuff that worries me is like the demonetizations.

And recently I'm on Patreon and recently,

I think MasterCard, I could be wrong.

Somebody got one of the, I think it was MasterCard, but they said, we're not going to accept payment.

Now, when you're talking about the financial backing, I mean, that is terrifying because

that's terrifying to me.

I don't know any way to look at that.

I don't know any, I know that people can justify that, but that is, again, where I'm like, okay, in this middle, like trying to find myself on this journey.

And there are lines where it's like, free speech.

You should be able to make, you know,

payment centers shouldn't be deciding who they will and won't take money based on what they're saying.

That is.

I can guarantee you

this on YouTube.

Will be demonetized.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you don't, you'll never watch any of these interviews that are interrupted with a, you know, just a inserted commercial interview.

I'll try, I do.

I did it to Ruben, too.

I told him I was having a dream, you know, the night before I was nervous, and I had a dream.

And I said, you know, I can say anything.

I'm not on Twitter.

I can say boys and girls are different.

And he was like, no, don't say that.

And then I told him that dream and he's like, thanks a lot, Bridget.

We just got demonetized.

Yeah, we're demonetized on everything, always, in advance.

It doesn't matter what I say.

Yeah, it's weird.

It's so, it's so, that stuff is because, and this is something that's always been really interesting.

And again, I don't know the answers.

I've always been, as I've watched technology, really interested about free markets, technology, and freedom of speech and where they're going to intersect because those are, it's a wild west.

We don't know.

It's all brand new.

We don't, we have never had

so much, like you said, connection and access and so many people relying on it for their livelihood.

And it's where everybody is.

My nephews, I just spent a week with my nephews.

They don't look at the TV.

TV's done.

No, done.

Done.

This generation, whatever it is, the millennials, last generation that will watch TV.

Oh, yeah.

It's done.

And they were on their phones and YouTube.

They live on YouTube.

And so to act like YouTube demonetizing people is not really deeply problematic.

And

that it's.

But the problem is, is

we're funding hate.

And it depends on what the definition of hate is.

And this is the thing that really bothered me.

You You know, Google and YouTube and Facebook are working on algorithms

to search for hate.

Right.

Well, wait, hold it.

I don't think we're.

I don't think who determines that.

Yeah, you keep using that word.

I do not think it means what you think it is.

Who determines that?

Right.

And how do you apply the terms of service equally?

If you're going to apply them equally and say, hey, the people who are, I call it the approved message.

If you're speaking the approved message and you're saying whatever you want to say and demonizing people in whatever way you want to say and you're not getting away with it, okay, I will accept that you can apply these terms of service equally, but you're not.

You're applying them only to one,

the people who aren't in the approved, the approved message.

Let me go to someplace maybe possibly sensitive.

Okay.

It's a trap.

It's a trap.

All of a sudden I turn to that fish head guy.

I know it.

I want to talk about

you deflect a lot with comedy.

Yes.

And so I want to take you

back to the experiences that you had

that really kind of started you on this track of of alcoholism, I assume.

Are you willing to go there on?

Yeah, I mean, as much as I can.

Yeah, okay.

Where,

where do we begin?

I think I was born an alcoholic.

I really do.

And even just my, there are examples I can think of from my childhood.

I'll give you a very simple one.

My

God, he was my godfather.

He gave me two pounds of gummy bears for my 10th birthday.

Haribo.

And the only kind.

And

then I locked myself, I'm the oldest of five.

I locked myself in my dad's office, ate all of them because I didn't want to share, and

spent my 10th birthday throwing up.

And that, and I was addicted to sugar, and I lied about it, and I was sneaky about it.

And books, too.

I would read books obsessively.

I always feel like I've been trying to escape and get high.

Those are two things that since I was before I even found alcohol,

my parents got divorced and I found alcohol.

And I moved every year and a half.

And I never felt like I fit in anywhere and people were horrible to me.

This is why I'm very sensitive to mobs.

I was always the girl on the outside

and always I'm deeply distrustful of groups because I was bullied by everyone and all and all the time.

I went to three eighth grades.

That's a lot.

And two ninth grades.

And

those are

bullying?

No, because my parents are insane.

And

it's my mom and myself.

Well, my mom got remarried and

that was a lot.

And

so we moved a lot and they didn't really know what to do with me being the oldest or where to put me.

And so they kept trying.

They just were trying to figure out where to put me in school.

And then I just started drinking and smoking weed when I was 12, 13.

And then we have very similar stories.

Yeah, but it was, I didn't have to try and fit in in schools anymore because everywhere you go, there's a group of people that party.

So it was, I just took all of my, and I was that girl that wanted to go to Harvard.

And it's, I might cry if I talk about this, but because it's those things that

I feel like I've had to forgive myself for is and and my parents and in

uh you know talking about having resentments and things that I work a program a 12-step program so I look at things like resentments and that uh feeling like I got derailed off of like my uh potential was somehow derailed by all of the stuff that was going on in our household which was uh I don't ever really talk about this publicly it was it was insane my uh there was a lot of mental illness and um

so you know my mom killed herself okay yeah I mean so I'm I'm down with mental illness my folks got a divorce yeah I started drinking and smoking pot same age yeah I was trying to escape a pretty nutty

Like home life and then it just continued.

I mean, I just kept on.

I was so lost.

I was lost.

I was, I, I was in rehab at 19.

And you would think that that would have kind of put me back on the path.

So I

basically started drinking at 12, and then it progressed pretty steadily.

And by the time I was 17, I was just full blown.

And

I finished high school.

And that barely, my senior year was

my second half of my senior year.

I almost failed out.

And then I went, I was working at a restaurant and we were down.

I had a fake ID and we were downtown and a guy

roofied me.

And then I woke, I got drugged and raped.

And after that, everything escalated.

I went, I started going to college, but

I was pretty much full-blown alcoholic at that point and was running from a lot of pain and then even more pain.

And then

I was I escalated to hard drugs.

Were you angry?

An angry drunk?

No, no, I wasn't like that.

I was not,

it didn't manifest that way for me at all.

I hear a lot of stories of people like getting in fights and stuff.

And I was pretty happy-go-lucky, actually.

And

I always thought I was a better person when I was drugged.

Yeah,

I might have been.

I mean, a lot of people would argue, I probably am sitting here.

So they're like, start drinking again, Bridge.

Start smoking weed.

Yeah, that's like, how much weed was I smoking?

And I ended up in Rehab at 19 for heroin.

And

weirdly.

Can you tell me the experience of heroin?

Yeah, it's great.

It's not good.

We've just been monetized again.

We're making the money now

by a cartel.

No, it's, it's, it was the relief I always sought.

So

my brain is loud.

People who are listening to this might realize that by now.

I have, it races all the time.

I have, it takes a village now for me to keep my, I'm very concerned with, you know, mental, mental health and addiction.

These are things that I could talk for hours about because I have so much experience with it.

And I just think, I see what it takes now to keep me kind of even keel.

And it's a lot.

And so I, and I had no coping tools.

I had nothing.

No one gives you those coping tools when you're young, which we should be giving kids, like how to regulate themselves emotionally and how to talk about something that may be traumatic happened to them or whatever.

And when the first time I smoked heroin primarily until right before I quit.

And

I just remember the first time it was like nirvana.

Like it was just quiet.

And I can get there now with meditation and

yo.

Unless it's the day before the election.

I was actually thinking, but it was funny because I was doing this crying in a garage, as I call it, but it's breath work.

And

this was like last weekend.

And I was sitting there doing my breathing and crying.

And I was like, God, if Glenn could see me now, does he know who he's having on this program?

And then I started thinking, I want to do that that with yo.

I'm like,

can we do a series where it's me and Glenn doing hippie stuff together?

I would love that.

That would be amazing.

I would love that.

Goat yoga, breath work.

You took yoga for a while.

Oh, yeah.

It's the most, it's one of the hardest workouts.

Oh, yeah.

And in the middle, he'd be like, I can't beat it.

I'd fall like dead to sleep.

It's the hardest and the most relaxing at the same time.

Yeah, I'm worried that maybe you were passing out.

You wasn't sleeping.

You were just passing out.

So I definitely, I was in

rehab, but it was, it was quiet.

My brain was quiet.

And it was a quick race to the bottom for me.

I didn't, I don't do anything really.

And I just was essentially, within a year, I was in rehab.

It took me down.

I was 89 pounds.

I was in the hospital.

And then I put myself in rehab.

It was,

I knew I had totally one of those like cliche

independent film moments where I'd come back, I was out in LA with my boyfriend, and I reached for something in my bathtub, and then I caught a glimpse in the mirror, and I could see every rib.

I looked in the mirror, and I was just nothing.

There was no, no one was home.

It was that soulless, dead eye, you know, and I was like, What have I become?

This week,

totally.

I mean, I am like an after-school special cliche, like every single one.

It's so, I always joke about that.

Like, I'm just the cliche after-school special girl.

Like, take all of those and that's me.

Well, the cult thing, too.

The cult wait, the cult thing?

Well, there's the whole, I accidentally ended up in a sex cult.

It's a whole long story.

I wrote about it.

So.

It's usually not something you just like.

And the cult thing.

Sex cult thing.

Well, I'm just saying, the after school special.

Yeah, that might be for HBO.

You'd have a ABC after-school special.

So, I, yeah, I went to rehab, and these women saved my life.

That was the first, the first time my life was saved.

Um, they, I was there, I stayed in the halfway house for seven months, and I learned coping tools, but I was also really young, and I decided that as long as I never did heroin again, I was good, you know, good to go because I still wasn't ready to stop.

And honestly, it is a miracle.

I got sober at 35.

I'm 40.

It is a miracle that I

made it to 35.

It truly is.

And then it was like what I call the dark years.

Then I basically, I was in the pro in the program and in a 12-step program.

And then I blamed everything on the program.

And I read all the books and I litigated.

You know, I read like how AA failed me.

And I, I, I built up my case so that I could successfully leave and not have that head full of all that knowledge and a belly full of booze.

I was talking to Tony Robbins recently and he said, I love him.

I do too.

He's a great guy.

I love him so much.

He saved me, honestly.

He doesn't know it.

He's a great guy.

But he has.

But he was saying that there was a guy that

came up to him.

He quit smoking.

He helped, this is early on in his career.

He helped him quit smoking.

And the guy came up to him five years, no, like 10 years later and said,

you failed me.

And he said, What?

He said, Do you remember me?

And it was early in his career, and he actually did remember.

He said, Yeah, you were a guy who stopped smoking.

He said, Well, how long did it last?

He said, Five years.

He said, Five years.

Then my wife left me and I just went out and smoked.

He's like, No, dude, I didn't fail you.

You failed me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And a lot of people have a lot of perceptions about 12 steps and whatnot.

And

I don't think that there's one solution for everybody, especially because when you start taking apart what leads somebody to addiction, you'll find there's either sometimes someone will get sober and it's like, oh, you're bipolar and you really just need medicine, you know, you were self-medicating.

And sometimes it's,

in my instance, it was

just a series of maybe genetics and also then life piled on top of it.

And I just spent most of my 20s not even being like, hey, to each their own.

I was like, anti-I was one of those people that was like, oh, those idiots in their fear-based program doing something better for their lives and helping other people.

How dare they?

I just was, I had to be against it because I knew, I think, and it is amazing the lengths I went to to avoid going back in.

I mean, yoga.

I learned, I became a yoga instructor.

I did a lot of therapy, you know, hallucinogenics, anything that you I could try to

manage.

And eventually, I just ended up, and it's been,

I used to hate when everybody said, like, everything in my life should be stamped with property of A.

And now I'm like, yeah, that's, that's me.

So, so, what was it that you were avoiding?

Um,

when inventory,

um, the inventory,

the shame.

So, I think from from for me, I feel

what's,

you know, it really came up when I quit Twitter again.

I said, I've been joking.

I said, I have been sober five and a half years and I've had Twitter the whole time.

And I quit.

I didn't go on.

And I realized how much of an escape mechanism it was for me and how much I was using it.

And the feelings, a lot of the shame I've dealt with, I would say the first round of onion peeling that I did in terms of what is going on

was just shame, shame about feeling like I had failed myself, feeling like I had failed

my parents.

Yeah, things like that, stupid things.

But that was my one and only dream.

And so then I had to, again, at 19, really reinvent myself.

And that's when I realized at 19 that I wanted to be a writer and that I didn't necessarily need college for that.

So

all of this kind of happened at the same time,

realizing that that was my path.

This most recent round, as uncomfortable as it is for me to admit publicly,

is just feelings of worthlessness, like really deep, deep, I might cry,

it's like right here.

Deep feelings of worthlessness.

And that has kind of, I've run from that, I think, my whole life.

And

that,

you know, it's interesting to see how I,

all of the ways in which I react

to

rejecting myself,

the ways that I did, the ways I reacted to shame, the promiscuity, the, it's like those reactions that I had to these feelings that I didn't know how to cope with.

After, um, after getting raped, I was so,

I don't know how to explain it.

You just feel

like broken.

And I think

I spent a long time running from that.

And it's a miracle I lived.

Like I lived through it.

Because a lot of people don't.

And I've seen a lot of people come in.

And that's what happens.

That's a hard thing about getting sober is facing yourself honestly.

And so that inventory, the looking at what my part is, even in something that I was truly a victim,

even in looking at how I had abandoned myself long before even that,

looking at how I reacted to it.

So it's not even in those instances, it's not necessarily even what happens to me that I have to take responsibility for, but.

how I reacted to that event in my life and the wreckage that I cause in response to it is that's on me.

You know, it's, I, I have to take responsibility for it.

I, I, I forgive the fact that I didn't have many coping mechanisms or tools or,

um,

you know, it's funny, and I'm sitting here thinking,

one of the things that's hard about

being online and being open online

is like

sometimes the trolls are right, you know, sometimes in the alt right and i've read these articles that they write about me from the alt right of like and the men's rights activists and they say you know like oh and her stepdaddy issues and her and her um and like she probably got raped and all this stuff and it's like yeah yeah they're right and that is when

uh

that hurt that hurts because they're right and then I'm like, am I just react like a massive reaction to am I just projecting a reaction?

I don't want to be doing that.

It's amazing if you are.

This is really honest.

If you are a thinking and feeling human being,

how good it is, and yet we don't talk about it, but how good it is

to

look at those comments

and ask yourself

gosh am i just that

and

and and that's you know that's i think part of the problem with the society today is we're

pain is awful but pain is good

what what happens i think you know i can separate myself and say that's not just me when i'm in a good place, for instance.

What is, you know, my therapist said, I worry about you on Twitter because you already feel like you're worthless and you already feel like you're garbage.

Go back to that.

First, take me to the difference, if there is any, between feeling worthless and feeling broken.

And if there is a difference, what is it?

And how are they connected?

I don't know.

That's a really good question.

I feel like the worthlessness, I don't know what I've really, I mean, it sounds so,

I, because I was joking that I went off Twitter and for Lent and found God.

And I really wasn't joking.

I really feel like the antidote to worthlessness is God.

It's the only thing that really I've been able, it's that idea of the God-sized whole, the thing that I've been trying to fill with men, no pun intended,

like all

of the substances, hopefully money.

Just kidding.

We'll see if that fills it.

I don't predict a lot.

But I need to know.

I need to know for myself

that I the

feeling broken was more of a reaction to an event that happened to me.

Feeling worthless, I feel like that was something I brought to the table.

I felt that way.

And again, I don't know, so much happened.

I don't know if it was from moving.

I don't know if it was always feeling isolated.

I don't know if it's part of, you know, being the kind of addict mentality, which I feel like I see a lot of addicts struggle with, that feeling of worthlessness or uselessness.

And

that, um,

or if it was

parenting, as much as I hate to say that publicly, because I love my parents and feel that they really did the best that they could,

which is what people always say when they're like, no, they didn't do the best they could.

They didn't do a great job.

No, I'm just kidding.

They did.

They did.

And they did instill morals in me.

And I do think

forgiveness and compassion is something that I really,

in all areas of my life and gratitude, these are things that they help me to heal that part of me that feels worthless.

It just,

but it creeps up.

And then when I'm getting mobbed online and I put on a good front and I can, I can, I do deflect, you're right, a lot with humor and

good on you for seeing right through that.

But I think there's a disintegration that occurs and

probably from trauma.

And this is the weird thing about trauma and I've learned a lot more about trauma is that when that filter kind of takes over, when I'm in a place where that's been triggered, which is a word that's been co-opted, but it does happen,

I

feel like that's the only lens I can see myself through.

So suddenly I am a grifter.

I am a hack.

I am carrying water for Nazis.

I am worthless.

I am garbage.

I am a slut.

I am a whore.

I am all of the, I mean, the horrible things that get lobbed at you anonymously.

And I do a pretty good job of not really paying attention to it or seeing it, but you see it.

It comes through.

And

so then I have a hard time remembering that I'm not that, that I'm,

I'm, you know, Bridget, who has a dog that she rescued and she's cleaning up its poop in her backyard.

Like, come, I have to come into the,

into real life, I think, helps when you're in that, uh,

the internal shame spiral is virtual you know that it's a it's and the virtual world is a weird

perfect kind of mirror of that internal I mean I was walking in LA and I don't want to swear but this guy he was a homeless man and he was screaming he was like shut up

he's like I can't think

too loud shut up and he was screaming at me and I was like brain

did you

just come out of my

dude?

I've been trying to divorce this part of me.

I didn't realize you were homeless now.

I'm sorry.

But that is, you know, I listen.

That's how, that's how I know when I'm doing well.

How?

I know you can relate.

When I can be alone with.

No music,

no distractions, no TV on in the background, because there are times, I just did it this morning.

I was reading something and it triggered something, a memory of me, and like a bad memory of me that years ago.

And I went,

you know what I mean?

Where you're just like, make noise, make noise.

It used to happen all the time.

And when you're,

when you're, when you've truly let go of it and you've truly dealt with it and

made the amends and accepted the forgiveness for yourself,

that goes away.

But

when you are constantly being picked at,

constantly being pointed to and saying you're a bad person,

it's dangerous.

And I think that's.

And why do you do it?

You know what?

That's the question I ask myself.

Why do you, what is the bigger thing that drives you to continue to take the hits and to

keep going forward?

Because by all accounts, somebody like me probably shouldn't be doing what I'm doing because I'm not a victim.

I'm choosing to take, we're putting ourselves in this position.

We're saying what we're saying and there are consequences of our speech.

But what drives you, you know, there's, I'm still at the point where I'm like, yeah, I could check out and like

still move to shit.

I mean, you, you're more at the point than me.

Yeah, I'm still at the point.

There are, there are several times a year I look to my wife and go, you realize we could just pack everything up.

We already have a house in the mountains.

We'll never have to talk to anybody again and we'll be happy.

Why are we doing this?

So what motivates you?

God.

History.

When I grew up at Beck,

and, you know, all guys are fascinated by World War II documentaries, but Beck is a German name.

And

I know there were Becks there.

My family wasn't, but I know my relatives had to be over there.

Which side were they on?

What did they do?

What did they say?

And the more I read about history,

there are these epic moments in history.

And

I want my grandchildren to be able to stand up and say,

you know, when that time came, here's what my grandma and grandpa did.

And

not have to just,

you know, hang their head and go, I don't know.

We really never talked about that.

You know?

Yeah, this is the interesting.

Don't you want to be somebody...

We're going through McCarthy era right now, and I think it's going to get worse, but we're going through McCarthy era right now.

Don't you want your kids to be the one that said,

you know, my mom, she stood up.

My mom went to jail for it

because she knew it was wrong.

So, yeah, and it's funny being in the middle, seeing both of the,

hearing both of the sides now that I've woken up.

And the other side would say that we are on the wrong side of history.

You know,

that's what's interesting to me in terms of the

everyone feeling like they're on the right side of history.

But let me ask you this.

You give me faith, and so do so many others, that

and I don't ever want to paint a broad brush that there's the right side of history and everybody on this side is on the right side because I know a lot of people on the conservative side, I think they suck.

Okay.

And I think they're off target.

And if I would define a conservative, what I am okay is I am trying to conserve those things of value that have helped us be a great people

there's a lot of crap that we've done that's bad but let's conserve the Bill of Rights let's conserve

the Constitution as written, not the way we're doing it.

Let's conserve decency.

Let's conserve reason

and logic and science.

You know, not just i'm gonna make up a word and tell you what it is the due process i think we need to conserve those things beyond that you know what we can fight all all day long but those things are being lost right now That's where I feel.

I mean, that was what I was saying to someone the other day.

If I can't say boys and girls are different, you know,

I guess that makes me a conservative.

If I'm defending, if I feel like that that saying that people

if i feel like i should be able to say that and now people are saying well you know you're you're out you're out then it's the purity that is like one of the purity tests right and you know but you know what that's how you know you're on the right side if look if if i'm on

i will have anybody on the show as long as you're an honest broker if you're willing to change your mind and i'm not saying i'm going to change your mind but if you're willing if you're open to go you know I don't know.

I don't know.

If you're willing to be an open, honest person, broker, no matter how much we disagree, I want to have a conversation because I'm going to learn something from you, you know?

And, and I know I'm on the right side when, when I'm saying, I'm open, let's talk.

Let's talk because it only makes us better.

We have to have each other

and we have to talk.

And if the other side is saying, shut up or you're ostracized, I know you are.

I've seen the movies.

You're usually dressed in a black uniform.

That is the danger.

I think that's, I mean, that's why, this is why I'm here.

Right.

And that's why I have hope because you're not alone.

There are so many people who

I don't even know.

Right.

We might disagree on a ton of really big things.

Right.

But you and I could live next door to each other.

Right.

We could be friends.

We'd be fine forever.

Yeah.

We would have strong disagreements probably.

Right.

But we'd be friends.

That gives me hope.

How many people on the conservative side do you see going over to the left and joining the left and saying, you know what?

I'm with you guys.

I still believe the things that I believe.

I still believe that the border is out of control or whatever, but I'm with you guys because you guys will at least talk common sense.

You're not seeing an intellectual, deep intellectual discovery on the conservative side moving over because the other side is shutting down all intellectual variations.

Right.

It's interesting because I have seen a lot of people come from the right.

There seems to be a migration into the center from both camps.

And that is one area where even the people coming from the right, they're like, okay, yeah, I can see how maybe I was blind in some respects.

Yeah,

may I just clarify?

Cause I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

I'm not saying,

I'm saying

the center is not the center as people always identify it.

I see totalitarianism.

I don't care if it's right or left, European right or left.

I see that over here.

Okay.

I see freedom lovers in this general area.

Okay.

They can disagree on everything, but they agree with you should have a right to say it.

You should write to live your life your own way.

You should be able to marry whoever you want.

These people cannot tell you one way or another anything.

So I see those who are those early 20th century dictator kind of progressive kind of thought before dictator was a bad word.

I see those people over here.

And I see average people moving away from that and coming here and going, look, I don't agree with you on anything, but those people are nuts.

Yeah.

Is that the same?

Yeah, I think that what you see from people coming from the right is that they're seeing elements of it from that side, too.

So that's what you hear from the refugees from the right.

So from my perspective, I see elements.

I'm like,

it's encroaching.

It's the, there's, the extremists have kind of hijacked the parties.

And, and most people are afraid to speak out against the approved message just because the approved message is so strong.

And in that battle in the middle, where you're kind of trying to find your way, you're like, well, I don't want to like,

I don't want to agree with, I don't agree with this, but this is, this is terrifying.

And that's where I think a lot of people are bumping around in the middle.

And they just are, instead of, because they have jobs and kids, and

they, I have, and I was saying this on Ruben, you know, I've seen mommies get shamed out of mommy groups.

I've seen people,

it's so,

it's so radicalized.

It's, it's created this binary, and again, it's the flattening.

But there's a lot of people who aren't flat.

They're humans like me who I'm not, I don't think, a bad person.

I try to be of service.

I try to help people.

I really care about the more evergreen topics like addiction and mental health and

and sex and relationships and free speech.

And that is the hill I feel like I'm dying on.

You know, that's, that's the fight where I started, and I started noticing it in LA.

I started noticing it in editorial

ways pre-election.

So this was already kind of happening.

And I noticed that I started self-censoring.

And it has been interesting getting all these emails from people all across the political spectrum people from the right people from the left people there's a certain amount of you know polite self-censoring that we all do to maintain civility and decency and and just being human but when people are afraid that they'll lose their job because they are speaking an opinion or i can't tell you how many

how many people have come out to me as libertarians in LA where they were like they're they're basically like I'll never work I'll never never work again if it even comes out that I listen to Ben Shapiro or, you know, people will recognize me and say, oh, I saw you on the Rubin report.

And I'm like, oh,

I see you.

I see you.

So that to me is dangerous.

That happens on the right, too.

I mean, I went from the hero of the right

to

Donald Trump scares the hell out of me.

Yeah.

And

ostracized.

I mean, it's just,

it is,

it is, you must play for the team.

Right, right.

And my team is common sense, facts, and reason.

Right.

And you don't have a record here of doing any of those things or being for any of those things.

And the rhetoric surrounding it is really frightening.

You know, now that he has a track record, I can separate the rhetoric and him, which I still feel the same way about.

and some of his policies compared to the policies of over here.

But you can't,

all subtlety is lost now.

It's good to push back.

You know, I think people who push back, especially in particular about

even, I guess in your instance, I didn't realize that you kind of came out against Trump.

I would say I was probably enemy number one in Trump's world.

Okay.

See, I just woke up in 2013.

I just woke up in 2013.

2018 was after, or 2016 was after 2013.

I know, but I didn't really have to start caring about anything.

Okay, all right, okay.

Okay.

I was blissfully ignorant with my privilege, floating through life,

drunk and high.

And even sober, I was just like trying to get sober.

Holy cow.

Those two years were, yeah.

So I think the reaction, the natural reaction of like, oh, this is not a decent person

is a normal reaction to have.

That is a, it's an okay reaction to have.

And I see people on the right get absolutely crucified for this.

And it is, and I, and this is really where I stand.

It's not really any, the politics I'm, you know, learning about.

But I'm just like,

can we return to decency?

Because I see the demonization of people.

And it's, I see it on both sides.

I know that everybody hates that term, both sides, but I do see

it's not just,

there hasn't been a lack of decency.

You can end it with Donald Trump.

If you don't like Donald Trump or don't support Donald Trump and you're on the right, you are from hell because these people are after us.

People are afraid to, and I am too, about what some of these socialists want to do to the people.

Right, right.

And some of them are, the people around them are.

crazy, radically scary.

However, I can judge myself what I like and what I I don't like.

Same thing, though.

If you wear a Trump hat, you're a racist.

I mean, that's crazy.

I mean, we've gone from don't judge me by the character of my skin to don't judge me by the color of my hat.

Yeah,

it's so.

There's no subtlety.

There's no reason.

Look,

I don't like everything that this person does, but I don't hate everything this person does.

And we used to be great because we had differing opinions and we would push back and meet kind of hopefully somewhere in the middle and it was this swing and now it just feels like no one is listening to each other and it seems to be increasing as we approach 2020 my hope for people is that they I understand the urge to retreat into a tribe because it's it's it's scary and it's natural it's natural it's also terrifying when you're out there just alone in the middle trying to be nuanced, God forbid, you get battered by everyone.

And so I'm

there.

There will be people who will read you and will support you.

But they won't share me.

Will not share it.

I've had people reach out to me and say, I love that article.

I can never share it.

And so then it is that isolating, you know, being in LA, I think without Twitter, I would have gone crazy because I felt so ideologically isolated.

I thought I was losing my mind when I started pushing back a little bit and feeling, and so much of it is insidious.

That is what I always say about censorship.

You know, people, when they say, they'll push back and say, well, they're not knocking on your door and they're not locking you up for saying, yet, it starts in the mind, self-censorship.

It's censorship starts here.

It starts when you start being quiet and putting your head down and not

saying this because you're afraid.

I was in Poland

and I was with the chief rabbi of Poland.

and

he said

proudly

there were 7,000 righteous among the nations here.

No, you know what the righteous of them is.

Righteous among the nations are those who stood up and saved a Jew.

Okay.

He said there was like 6,000, 6,800, something like that.

And I was like,

you're happy about that?

How many millions of people lived here?

And he looked at me and I had a totally different perspective and I didn't understand it at the time.

I do now.

He's like, Do you realize

what those people risked?

He said, Most people would not even come to the window because if you came to the window and you opened the curtains, you got whatever punishment they were getting.

Okay, so they were trained, don't just look down, look down, look down, look away.

We're being trained, look down, and look away.

Yeah,

when we see something, it's such it's so I feel so you know, I see I see elements of this kind of

when marginalized have been

repressed or oppressed or, you know, that to act like that doesn't happen either is where I get I get upset when, because this is what I mean about the flattening.

The flattening is like you're in this camp or in that camp.

You either believe

and then we're not.

I think, you know, it's like conservatives just don't care about anyone.

When you asked me what I thought a conservative was, my gut instinct is like, well, you like money and you don't care about anyone.

That's what I was raised with, right?

That's the factory settings.

And I have learned and talked with many conservatives now and had many conversations.

And maybe it is getting older because there's that old joke of, you know, like you're a liberal in your 20s and if you're whatever it is.

You don't have a heart if you're liberal in your 20s.

You don't have a head if you're not conservative in in your 20s.

Exactly.

Maybe it's just the natural, the circle of life.

I don't think so.

I think conservatives,

I think it is strangely

finally being understood that a lot, not all, a lot of conservatives are for

the Bill of Rights.

Yeah.

And so we don't disagree with the Bill of Rights, freedom of speech.

And the left has always gotten that label of, we're for freedom of speech.

Well, no, no, you're not.

You're not for freedom of speech.

You're for freedom of speech.

You put a cross, you know, in a jar of urine, you can do that all your day.

But if I put a statue of Obama in a jar of urine, you know, no funding for me.

So there's this place to where

good people on the right and the left are saying, I don't care what either of you do.

Right, right.

I don't care.

Right.

It is a flattening because most people, one of the interesting things that was being exposed to conservative circles, so suddenly I was being exposed online and I'd been exposed to kind of getting the left draggings or whatever

pile ons.

I hadn't, and then I, because conservatives were sharing my work, I suddenly was getting, and then some of the underbelly there,

I hadn't seen that where I'd be like, hey, you know, we need to be for free speech.

And they'd be like, yeah, and then something super racist.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's that's not what I'm saying, guys.

Like,

not going there.

So I'm going to say the N-word.

No.

No, no.

No, no, no.

That's done.

We're not on the same team.

Yeah, you have a right to say it, but I'm not with you.

Yeah, and you should be in the kitchen pregnant.

Like, okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

So to act like there isn't, you know, and by the way, misogyny is the underbelly.

That's something like I to act like I'm only exposed to it on the right is not true i am exposed to it i get it on from all sides um but because it's people because it's people and but it was interesting to see like okay to turn a blind eye to the race to racism anywhere is is not you know that's not okay either no it's it's it's like sometimes anybody look i don't think I don't know those people.

And if I do know those people, I'm like, okay, I don't think we're friends anymore.

I mean,

it exists and it's real.

Sometimes I'll tweet something and then

someone like

who has a large following like that will retweet me

with that kind of underbelly.

And then I'll immediately tweet something that just sheds all of it.

I'm like, I'm not who you think I am going to.

Just like a hashtag,

whatever I can say to get rid of like this, this group that just came in and thinks something.

It's just been, it's wild.

You know, it is wild online and out there and staying centered.

And

I appreciate you having me on and having the guts to have this conversation.

I've had more conversations.

I went to Los Angeles and I stood in a room of about a thousand people and I said,

How many people here think they hate my guts?

95% of the room raised their hands.

How many did you convert?

I had the exact opposite.

In fact, my family didn't change their mind.

They were like, you know, I still hate you.

But

I have had so many conversations with,

I mean, I've had conversations with communists.

Communists.

They call themselves liberal, but they openly admit you'd call me a communist.

They're like, yes, yes, I would.

But

it's amazing how close we are in opinions when it comes to the big principles.

You know?

And the people are just afraid.

I had dinner with 20 people in Los Angeles, and they were the heads of

big groups.

And none of them, the deal was.

You can't have a team.

You're going to have dinner.

You can't have a team.

And nobody's talking about this.

And nobody's sharing who's who.

I was the only conservative at the table.

Wow.

Okay.

And

we were all in agreement on the big principles, all in agreement.

People are sick of it.

Yeah.

They're sick of it.

They're just afraid.

They are.

They are.

I was kind of noticing this recently.

There was that whole thing about the, and I might be going down a crazy rabbit hole with you right now, but with the Easter worshipers where everybody, and there seemed to be this kind of bad faith argument.

And I don't know what your take was on this, so forgive me, whatever it was.

But I heard a lot of like, they're trying to destroy Christianity, blah, blah, blah.

And my take on that was I looked at it.

I'm like, no, these people are petrified of their own party.

They're so afraid of their own party.

They can't say Christians.

Like, that is how I see that

I view it differently.

I see it as them being terrified of their own.

That's even worse.

Right.

It's worse worse that i see it as worse i i think that the easy explanation is is the lazy one i think really it's like they're so afraid of of

of angering the kind of radical base that has emerged that they're like yeah it's like the most awkward thing to say like

that's and so again being in the middle i kind of have this perspective where i'm like no guys i don't think i think it's way worse than you actually think

That's terrifying.

It is.

Do you believe that?

No, I believe.

I mean, that's where.

That's terrifying.

I know, but it's

it.

I don't, I think it makes more sense than like everyone wants to destroy.

No one wants to just

that that is a very

flattening.

That's a flattening.

Yeah, but they do, but but if you are afraid to say Christian, then somebody along the line is like Christian bad.

Okay, that's fair.

I guess if you like ideologically follow that thread,

I just see it as, again, a kind of example of like that, the

approved message.

That's frightening.

Do you know who Michael Rechtenwald is?

But yeah, you're right.

If I keep following that thread, it does mean somebody.

Somebody along the line up at the top.

They're not like, no, you guys can write Christian.

Bridget fettis me.

I'm going back.

Do you know who Michael Rechtenwald is?

No.

Michael is a guy who was at NYU.

He used to write white papers for communists.

Okay.

He always considered himself a communist.

But as I said to him, I said, because then he bailed.

He just bailed like two years ago and came out and is like, okay, I'm not with these people.

And I'm like, Michael, what happened?

I mean, you've been a communist your whole life.

You've been writing white papers for them.

And he said, Glenn, it was theory.

He said, it was theory.

He said, I think communism in theory is good.

He said, it always goes bad.

He said, and these people

who actually believe it are terrifying.

Yeah, I mean, my, my, I was married.

My ex-husband is from Belarus.

And

he's like, I did not come to this country

for all of you to become communists.

He's so mad.

I get stopped in the streets by people from Eastern, you know, the Eastern Bloc, and they'll stop me and they'll be yelling at me about Americans who don't get it.

How come you Americans don't get it?

I'm like, I know, I get it.

I know, but why can't you cut through and tell them?

I'm like, I don't know.

I'm trying.

I'm trying.

It is interesting because I was telling Kay when she was doing my makeup.

She,

about about a story about my ex and how we were watching The Simpsons, he was really smart and he had, he understood satire, even though he came with barely any English.

And then he didn't understand the toilet paper reference that they were making.

They were throwing toilet paper in the trees, which if you're American, you're like, homecoming, ha ha, hilarious.

And he's like, Brija, what is this toilet paper?

I'm bad at accents.

What is this toilet paper in the trees thing?

And I was like, oh, you know, we just did it.

It was a homecoming thing.

And he's like, so when I was standing in line for toilet paper, you were throwing it in trees

like yes yeah yeah actually yeah you picked the wrong side of the wall dude

but that's what people don't understand

i mean he it's like this is this is

that's not fake he lived through that how can people i mean i really want to talk to hollywood and say

Remember when you were for Venezuela?

I don't know.

I think they're worried about their position on it.

Yeah, but how does this happen?

We have, how are we so happy about socialism when you've got all of history, but then you have one here that they all touted and they're starving to death.

They're starving.

It doesn't work.

It's weird too, because I do think that a lot of America's problem in general from everyone is that they don't leave America enough.

And

not just like going to Italy abroad, I mean, for your semester abroad or whatever.

I mean, go to countries that don't have

India.

Go.

I was in Sri Lanka for two months.

I was in India for a month.

I mean, go to countries where Bill Burr does a great stand-up routine about how he, you know, lucky we are in America, but just how there was a little Indian kid.

And he said, I was in India recently and this kid just came out and he was buck naked and he like took a poo right in between two cards and then just disappeared into the crowd like Jeffrey Dahmer at the end.

And he said it was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever seen.

And that is something you see everywhere.

And

I feel like the answer to so many of our issues is gratitude.

Just coming back into gratitude for what we have.

All this talk about privilege, the height of privilege is sitting around online

bitching about privilege all day.

Thank you.

If this is your...

If a statue.

And have you been anywhere?

Have you left your couch in five years?

If a statue is keeping you down, you got a pretty great life.

Oh, it's the height of

magazine cover, whatever the

outrage du jour is.

It's so...

It is privilege to be able to just be like, pepper pe-ter-prater

online.

And

it's mind-boggling to me because it just seems, I'm like, you guys don't see the irony of this.

This is also something I always saw during the whole election cycle: all these women being like, hashtag the bachelor.

And then they'd be like, a reality show president.

I'm like, ladies.

No sense of self here.

No self-awareness at all.

None.

And they're not going to see how we might have contributed to this culture.

Not at all.

Okay.

I'll go back to being annoying online.

I've said

since probably 2005,

alcoholics are going to save the world.

Ironically.

Yeah.

Because

if we all just did a 12-step program.

Oh, I know.

I say that all the time.

Everyone needs that.

Everyone needs a program.

The country needs a pro.

We got a problem.

We've got a problem.

Can we just do the first step?

We've got a problem that's way beyond our control.

Yeah, yeah.

We,

and this is something that in the book, if I ever get to write it, it's, you know, the outrage economy.

And so, again, this is where I have to look at my role and I look at the space.

And

there's

a whole economy that's been built around this.

Just sit here in my studio.

Yeah, I mean, this has been built on the very same thing, and I'm trying to to do good.

And I'm like, how do I get out of here?

How do you get outside of it?

How do I do the good and be in this business?

Because

if you do good, you should just shut up and be Tony Robbins.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

I was wondering about that.

I was going to ask you, too,

how you handle, I mean, I can't remember who it was.

I think maybe it was Cernovich.

He was doing one of those, like, ask me anythings.

And I feel like he had some,

he said something about

the

realizing that you have this audience and then you kind of have to feed the beast.

And

I wonder, you know,

how,

and I see it on, again, it's like the whole economy of it.

When you dare to step outside of maybe what your target demographic is and then they turn on you.

I mean, I think recently even like this happened to Rogan.

We had Jack Dorsey on his whole audience turned on him.

And it was fascinating because you kind of think he's like untouchable.

And um I wonder you know how do you

how do you in

if you're part of it how do you get outside of it

can you yes um you're like yes I'm having you on my private

no no

I

I read a phrase when I first sobered up that puzzled me so much I couldn't imagine you want to talk about privilege living in a world where the phrase, there are many things that I believe that I shall never say, but I shall never say the things I do not believe.

That,

I read that from a philosopher,

scientist in the Enlightenment period, and I read that and I thought,

What kind of world do you live in where you're afraid to say the things that you believe?

That was in the 90s.

Okay.

We're in that world.

And there are many things that I believe that I shall never say.

But I shall never say the things I do not believe.

Okay.

And if you,

if you,

I shouldn't emphasize many things because there's not.

There's just a few things that I just like that won't

do any good because it will be misunderstood.

And we don't live in a culture that can parse things out.

You know what I mean?

Of course.

But

you,

because I'm an alcoholic, this goes back to Alcoholics Who Save the World,

I've already lost everything.

Right.

So, I know what's important.

Right.

You know, all this can go away.

Right.

It means nothing.

Right.

I mean, it's great.

It's sweet.

Only thing changes your life, private air travel.

That changes your life.

You know, it's funny as I was saying that on the way here.

Yeah.

My only goal in life is to get out of coach.

I only get flying anxiety when I'm in coach.

It's like the best.

Okay, so

do yourself.

So get out.

Next time you come.

This person's going to use me as a flirtation device for sure.

But in front, you're like, oh, everybody cares about me.

This plane can't possibly go down.

I know.

And you know what?

It's totally different.

When you sit in first class and they close the curtain, it just creates class envy.

It's just like,

we're not going to look at you people.

No, no, you can always tell the people that got the upgrades versus the people who belong in first class because they're looking up, and the people who are like first class,

they're just down.

I don't even look at you people schlepping in the back of the plane.

First time I was upgraded, I was upgraded, I was in the back by the curtain, and I looked back to somebody who was flying with me.

I just kind of peeked to the curtain.

I'm like,

They're taking selfies, that's how you recognize them.

Right, you're like, everything can go away except my private jet.

I'll be homeless, but don't take my jet.

Capitalism always wins.

But the thing that, and I think it's what you do,

you've lost everything,

and so you know what has true value.

And so you won't lose that again.

No.

And you can lose that through action, but you can also lose that through inaction.

I mean, I'd return to my giant game of yes and.

It's just been,

I said when I got sober, I know what my life looks like when I'm drinking and smoking weed.

And it wasn't, people always ask me why I got sober this time.

They think that it's some answer, like, oh, I got a DUI or I, you know, whatever.

It's just at your bottom.

I felt dead inside.

I felt dead inside.

I felt like I was rotting.

And my, some of my aunt and uncle's friends asked me this on the beach one day.

And they're like, wow, tell us how you really feel.

You guys asked me.

This is the truth.

I felt like I was,

and that has gone away.

And I knew where my life would kind of go.

But it is, it is, I never knew where it would take me when I got sober, clearly.

And it

welcome to hell.

Apparently, as my dad goes at the dark side,

I just never knew.

And it's been,

it's just.

exciting and terrifying.

But like you said, I've already more terrifying to me is relapsing or losing.

I feel comfortable in my own skin now.

I did not ever feel that way.

I don't, I, I feel like the shame has, I don't have that shame that I came into the program with the shame of things I had done to myself, been allowed.

Just all of the shame that I came in with

into sobriety, I feel like is gone.

You know, that doesn't mean that there aren't massive blind spots that are going to pop up and say, here's your lesson.

Best advice I ever got from an alcoholic

was when you least expect it, expect it.

Because

you know you better than anybody else.

And so you've prepared all these defenses.

And all of a sudden, one day you'll find yourself.

And this happened to me about five years in.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, if he hadn't have told me this, I would have failed.

When you least expect it, expect

because your brain will find a way, a pathway, and it will come to you as completely reasonable.

Oh, totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're like, whoa.

You have that coin because I was sitting alone at the bar just waiting, you know, going to get dinner.

And I feel the craving really isn't there.

And then suddenly it was like, oh, that drink looks really good.

And I was nervous and feeling

all kinds of emotions

just in general.

I don't like that.

And I went to a meet, you know, I took myself to a meeting, which is the not my normal behavior.

I mean, that's my normal behavior now, but it is that like insidious, kind of sneaky,

and it will seem totally reasonable.

It'll come through, like, oh, this seems like a good idea right now.

And

I

would,

I would, I get so, when, when I was asking you why you do it, I, it got me thinking about why I am doing this.

And this conversation,

I will have this conversation with anyone.

I will, in particular, about recovery and getting, and shame and feelings of worthlessness.

I went on Gavin McGinnis and we talked about my heroin addiction.

And I mean, that was like, you know, that was the all right, essentially, as everybody told me.

And we talked a lot.

No, I'm not saying that.

I agree with that.

I'm saying that's the perception.

Yeah.

And

I

we mostly talked about my addiction recovery and the path.

And I cannot tell you how many emails I've received from people who saw that show.

And we talked about kind of signs to look for with your teenagers.

If they, if he said, you know, what could somebody have looked for with you?

If, and when you were a teenager, how could they have known that something traumatic had happened to you?

And we talked about that.

And people have emailed me and I've talked to people's kids who are struggling with addiction.

And we have a massive opioid addiction crisis in this country right now.

That's just somehow, you know, people are struggling with this.

And yeah, that's that's more important to me than all the noise.

All of it.

It's

the most important thing to me.

Will you do me a favor?

Yes.

Will you keep a diary that is just of

no dear Glenn keep a diary of just those things

because when you start to feel worthless because I I

can't I don't know if we feel the same way I feel like I guess worthless that what I do has absolutely no value it's just all bad What keeps you, what are the things that inspire you?

Things like this, the emails from people, the personal

individuals?

I remember the people who will come up and say, You changed my life.

And I don't know them, I don't see them.

I only get people don't say that to you all the time.

No, no, you hear more of the noise.

You need to keep a good noise journal.

That's a really good idea, actually.

That is a good idea.

I will do that.

One more favor?

Yes.

Will you come back?

I will.

Great.

I would love to.

Good.

Thank you for having me.

You bet.

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