Socialism Always Ends in Tyranny? | Guests: John Ziegler, Del Bigtree, & Andrew Heaton | 3/7/19

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This is the Glenbeck program.

You know, it's really amazing.

We have the R.

Kelly trial going on right now.

We have to talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

This is an amazing story about how he has just gotten away with,

I mean, everything but murder,

it seems, and HBO's documentary on Michael Jackson.

What does this mean for our society?

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

We have the ever unpopular John Ziegler joining us in one minute.

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Michael Jackson could be guilty as hell, and HBO's leaving Neverland would still be unfair.

Those are the words of John Ziegler.

Welcome to the program, John.

Glenn, I'm going to put Ever Unpopular on my business card.

That's what you need.

That's what you need.

So, John, I actually,

you know, I know this article, when you read it, you ought to thought, yeah, you know, everybody's going to disagree with me on this.

But we actually don't.

We've watched this,

and I think, and in reading your article, I think you would agree.

Most likely these guys are telling the truth.

Most likely this guy, Michael Jackson, did this to

these kids and many others.

but he's not around to defend himself, and we're just presenting one side.

This is dangerous.

That's why I wrote the column.

However, that column was written a couple of days ago, and

I'm not sure I would write the same column today because I am quite sure that one of the two guys in that HBO quote-unquote documentary, Wade Robeson, is not telling the truth.

Yeah.

And let me put it this way.

If he is telling the truth, then we might as well throw away the entire judicial system because

there is absolutely, positively no way for an accused person to defend themselves.

Because the Wade Robeson story is on

paper is a complete joke.

And I purposely went into watching the Neverland movie.

I don't want to call it a documentary because it's ridiculously one-sided, even if Jackson is guilty.

Let me just say, I hate this subject, Glenn.

I hate being the person that has to stand up and say, wait a minute, but no one else wants to do this.

And I mean, you said I were unpopular.

That's even with my own wife.

I mean, my wife is furious at me on this hunt.

But I'm telling you, the Wade Robeson's story,

my dog in this hunt is not Michael Jackson.

I don't care about Michael Jackson.

I care about the truth.

And I really, really care about the rules we're creating for how we evaluate these kind of stories because that is dradically changing in a very dangerous way.

And if the Wade Robeson story is allowed to stand, then I seriously, Glenn, I do not know how a rich, famous person

is able to defend themselves against any allegation because I have evaluated these kind of stories for years now, and this one is the most inexplicable uh that i have ever seen why do you say that why do you say that well because i mean in all seriousness again he could be telling the truth but if he is

then on what basis would any story ever be discredited let me i mean i could talk to you for hours about this but let me just give you a couple of highlights i mean look here's a guy who i'm forgetting about the fact that at 12 years old he testified in a in a civil complaint that uh jackson never never did anything to him and he was the greatest thing ever i'm discounting that okay he's 12 years old and supposedly still being uh abused but at 22 years old as an adult celebrity okay people need to understand he's a celebrity this is a guy who who allegedly broke up britney spears and justin timberlink because he had an affair with britney spears now Right there, that's confidence, folks.

That is not consistent with what we're told is a sex abuse victim.

This is a worldly guy at 22 in the midst of a massive criminal trial.

He is not just a witness for Michael Jackson.

He's Michael Jackson's first defense witness.

I know Michael Jackson's attorney, Tom Mesero, very well here in Los Angeles.

Tom Mesero is a brilliant guy.

He believes Michael Jackson is innocent.

I do not know if he is or not.

I'm an agnostic on that issue.

But as far as Wade Robeson, there is no way in hell that Tom Messero or Michael Jackson, if he's a criminal mastermind, is going to put Wade Robeson on the stand first in his criminal trial if he's abused him for seven years and that Tom Messero, who has interviewed him vigorously, his family vigorously, is going to put him on the stand first.

The testimony which was vigorously defending Jackson is only one of a thousand data points that continue well after the trial and well after Jackson's death that Robeson was never abused.

After Jackson dies, Robeson issues one of the most abulian

pro-Jackson statements I've ever heard anyone give.

He's the greatest human being that's ever lived.

He writes a chapter in a book eulogizing Michael Jackson.

He attends his funeral.

And then it only shifts.

It only shifts immediately after when Michael Jackson is dead and Robeson loses out on the job to choreograph a Circus Soleil Michael Jackson show in Las Vegas.

And then he sues for millions of dollars.

The first time he ever tells a story to anyone.

And in the course of that lawsuit, the course of that lawsuit, the discovery shows how he created his story.

And, you know,

even I, in my column, I don't think I accurately describe how that lawsuit got adjudicated.

It got adjudicated because of statute limitations concerns, and that sounds like, oh,

there was nothing about the marriage.

That's not really accurate.

What really happened is it was statute limitations concerned.

And then when he tried to figure out a loophole around the statute of limitations, the judge determined that he had blatantly perjured himself, as proven by emails, and threw out his entire testimony.

Wow.

So

if Wade Robeson is to be believed and accepted with in a documentary with zero pushback, I mean zero skeptical questioning, zero informing the audience in the first hour of some of these basic facts, then I really honestly, Glenn, I do not know how anyone years later can possibly defend themselves.

And again, I don't care about Michael Jackson, and I hate this subject, but come on, people.

This was totally and when we when you see interviews with this director, Dan Reed, I have never seen anyone as invested in a storyline without facts than this guy.

So, I mean, look, could Wade Robeson be telling the truth?

I guess so.

I guess Jesse Smollett and Christine Ford could, too.

I mean, because, I mean, frankly,

his story makes Christine Ford and Jesse Smollett look like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

I mean,

that's how bad it is.

I mean, it's really, it is really, it's the worst I've ever seen.

Wow.

What about the other guy?

Now, James Shavechuck is a different breed of story.

And I will fully acknowledge, by the way, both of them are very good.

They're very compelling.

It's disgusting.

It's horrific.

It's important to point out that no one seems to want to acknowledge, these are two guys who have been entertainers since they were kids.

They've been performers.

So can we at least consider the possibility that in the Jesse Smollett era that they could be just telling a story?

That is certainly possible, but it's much more difficult to destroy Safe Chuck's story because he didn't do nearly the same number of things.

However, he did testify on behalf of Jackson in a civil complaint.

He did file apparently a deposition saying, or not, I mean, an affidavit saying he was not abused.

He did not testify at Jackson's trial.

He was about 27 years old at that time, but he also didn't testify against him.

And he he never told anybody about this until after Jackson was dead, about the actual allegations.

So

when you compare it to Wade Robeson, it's not nearly as easily questionable.

And I will fully agree that their telling of the story in Neverland, leaving Neverland, is incredibly compelling.

And that's clearly why HBO and the director decided to go with it.

But shouldn't there be more than that?

I mean, really, shouldn't there be more than that against a man who is dead, a man who was not convicted in court, a man who was never even found liable in a civil case?

I mean, to me, the threshold ought to be much higher, Glenn, under those circumstances.

This documentary would have been fine if Michael Jackson had been convicted and confessed, but that didn't happen, or if he was still alive to defend himself.

That's not the case.

Because of those circumstances, I do not believe Leaving Neverland ever should have even aired on HBO, and I think it's an abomination from a documentary standpoint.

Well, it's not a documentary.

A documentary should present both sides so you have some sort of idea.

I mean,

it is an anti-Michael Jackson

movie.

And there's no ifs, ands, or buts.

They do not ever give anyone a chance to say the other side at all.

Can I give you an example of that?

With Wade Robeson, and I didn't know this until after it aired.

Wade Robeson, during the time of the alleged allegations that he makes against Michael Jackson, which go until he's 14 years old, was dating someone.

He was dating a woman for eight years during his entire teenage years.

That person was Michael Jackson's niece, Brandy, who is incredibly credible, intelligent.

I've seen interviews with her.

She knows he's lying, knows it.

Now, how does that make any damn sense?

That for eight years he's dating a girl who's Michael Jackson's niece,

who was there with him the whole time, who was having sex with him, who knows him better than anybody during this exact period of time, and they don't even interview her?

Don't you think she might have some information, Blen?

I mean,

that's not a documentary, as you said.

That's a hit job.

And again, we should all care about this, not because of Michael Jackson.

And I don't want to be, I hate being seen as being, you know, defending supposed pedophiles or Michael Jackson in particular.

I despise it.

We should care about the truth.

And these rules, these new rules are so incredibly dangerous.

Well,

I want to ask you to hold on here.

I'm going to break for a minute and then we'll come right back.

And I want to change this to R.

Kelly and this,

and even Jeffrey Epstein.

Here's a guy who clearly on the surface has been doing some really bad stuff.

He gets a sweetheart deal in Florida because he's really connected.

And now

maybe there's a chance that he is going to be looked into because of a social media push.

The same thing with R.

Kelly.

It's a social media push.

Is this good or bad?

John Ziegler continues with us in just a second.

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So, John,

here's the thing I think that makes people believe some of this is these big settlements.

And, you know, you settle at a court, and quite honestly, that used to be the thing to do because it just isn't worth it.

Companies do this all the time.

They settle.

That's not necessarily an admission of guilt.

And so people think that the rich can get away with anything.

And

you look at Jeffrey, what is it, Epstein or Epstein?

Epstein.

Epstein.

Epstein.

You look at Jeffrey Epstein.

Here's a guy who had

dozens, they say, dozens of

girls testifying or willing to testify that he had sex with them at underage.

He cuts a sweetheart deal.

He gets off with nothing.

And it's because he's well connected.

The average guy would not have the same kind of

system acting this way with them.

100% true.

Based upon upon what I know of that story, I would agree with that 1,000%.

But the weird part is because he's not a celebrity, he's just, you're actually advantaged.

Being a celebrity, I think, makes you far more vulnerable.

And being rich, of course, gives you huge advantage.

I mean, I have always believed,

I covered the Michael Jackson trial as a radio talk show host here in Los Angeles.

And before the trial, I presumed Jackson was guilty as hell because of the payoffs.

The trial actually produced very limited limited evidence, which is why I think he was correctly acquitted.

That doesn't mean he's innocent.

That means they didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

But he was very, very vulnerable, largely because of his celebrity and his money.

And a payoff to him, let's be fair, isn't the same as a payoff.

Well, maybe to you, but not to me, because obviously he was super rich at the time.

And so that's all needs to be taken into consideration.

Now, the R.

Kelly situation I find fascinating because

to me, what R.

Kelly was doing was taking the Brett Kavanaugh strategy and multiplying it times a thousand, which is, you know, you got to show you're fighting back as much as possible, and at least some people will believe you.

I don't believe R.

Kelly, but I think his strategy is interesting that he took in that interview with CBS.

So now

you have the same kind of situation with R.

Kelly as Michael Jackson, where he says, you know, hey, look, I already beat this rap once.

You can't tie me into that.

I was cleared of that.

Well,

that's not really true.

And plus, there's another problem for R.

Kelly.

There's videotape in this game.

Well, I mean, okay, that little detail.

Yeah,

and, you know, again,

I've watched enough shows on R.

Kelly to know that the evidence is far stronger based upon what we currently know than it is against Michael Jackson.

But

did you believe his reaction in that CBS interview?

I mean,

that felt like acting to me.

No, yeah, I did.

No, I didn't buy it at all.

But, you know, what does that mean?

I am having to judge somebody's acting ability.

But here's why that's important, Ben.

And

I think this is really important going back to this issue of the rules we're creating.

Let's pretend for a second that R.

Kelly is somehow maybe not guilty.

I'm not saying that I'm just putting that out as a theory, right?

How is he supposed to defend himself?

And I really, truly do believe that Brett Kavanaugh has carved out the last path for someone who actually is innocent to defend themselves.

Donald Trump wouldn't have stuck by Brett Kavanaugh if he hadn't fiercely attacked the story in his testimony in front of the Senate.

And so that's your only option.

And what I found interesting was, of course, that many people on social media that I saw, news reporters, were saying, well, you know, Kelly proved himself to be an abuser because he was abusing his interviewer who was female.

Okay, fine.

Well, then just tell me, just please, that's all I've ever really asked is, tell me what the rules are.

How is an innocent person in this kind of situation supposed to defend themselves?

How are they supposed to act?

Because frankly, I think Me Too has taken away all of the avenues.

I don't know what you're supposed to do, even if you are innocent.

I think that's a great point, John.

I would love to see a moment like this on a cable news broadcast when they're talking about this, where someone says to the host, Hey, have you ever had an intern that you didn't abuse in your life?

Okay, just of course, and of course, they're going to say yes to that.

Tell me if that intern came on TV right now and said that you abused them, what would you say to defend yourself?

What would you say?

What excuse could you possibly come up with?

You can't prove where you were every second of every day, you don't have video of yourself every second of every day.

And if we're just supposed to believe the accuser, there is no path to defend yourself, even if you are completely innocent.

That's not, you know, you know, conviction by documentary and podcast is a really dangerous road to go down.

Amen, Stu.

And again, I just want to know what the rules are.

And I also would like those rules to be semi-rational.

And

is that asking too much?

Because

we are way beyond that now.

And I don't see how we go back.

I thought Jesse Smollett might at least tap the brakes, but it clearly did not.

No.

And we're going to talk next hour about how it's even getting worse now with Facebook and YouTube and everything else.

I would love to see you look into the Jeffrey Epstein case and really do some investigating on that.

If you do, let me know, John.

And we'll follow you.

We follow you

as well.

Individual one is the name of his podcast, free speechbroadcasting.com, and follow him on Twitter at Zygmunt Freud.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.

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this is the Glenn Beck program welcome to uh thursday have a great show lined up for you probably tomorrow or the next day but we've we're dealing with this one today and pat gray is is with us now hello pat oh i came on the wrong day

yeah yeah yeah uh So you just heard John Ziegler, who is, I think he gets up every day and is like, how could I be more unpopular?

I take the opposite point of view on today.

Right.

And he said,

I'm not defending Michael Jackson.

I have a problem with this HBO documentary that really didn't address the other side.

Although it did.

It kind of did.

A little bit.

He didn't.

spend a lot of time with it, but both of them admitted lying under oath.

They showed a lot of the clips of these of people who were taking them apart online.

They did sort of cover the other side of it.

I mean, they didn't do it extensively, and it happened towards the end.

They tipped their hat.

They tipped their hat.

Yes.

I also

disagree with Ziegler on a couple of things.

Robson explained pretty much everything that Ziegler talked about.

He went on to, yeah, a lot of fame and fortune with InSync and Britney Spears.

And I don't know that the fact that he had his way with Britney Spears proves that he was totally together because,

you know, this would be a signal that you were not together.

You're breaking up somebody else's marriage.

It's the Kevin Federline law, I believe.

Plus, as both of them said, neither one of them considered it abuse at the time.

When they were in the relationship, they didn't consider it abuse.

And then in their teenage years, they hadn't really worked through it yet.

Yeah, and when you are suffering through things,

sometimes you pour yourself into work and you become successful in spite of that happens a lot.

Right.

It's happened.

It happened with me.

Yeah.

I mean,

that's what drove me was just concentrate on this, just concentrate on this, concentrate on this.

You would agree, too, though, to the idea, just generally speaking, about

there's a disturbing trend of, you know, you get enough retweets and the person's guilty.

Absolutely.

And that is a.

Yes.

And I will admit, I kind of fell into that trap on this documentary because I don't know that Michael Jackson 100% is guilty, but I'm about 99.5% believe in it.

Yeah.

And I probably shouldn't, but there is some evidence.

You know, he openly slept with young boys.

Openly, over and over and over.

And what really hurts him is, you know, I had an amusement park.

I openly slept with young boys.

And, oh, by the way, I had pornos and

the kids' fingerprints are on it.

That's a to ask.

That's found in my closet.

But that's all old.

That has nothing to do with the documentary, right?

That's

our old thing.

But it does bring it back to the top of your mind a little bit.

I'd forgotten about some of that evidence.

Jordy Chandler also drew

the evidence of his man unit,

and it was the exact same markings that the photographs had.

How did that happen?

Is he psychic?

Just luck.

Well, he lucked out.

It looked like Abraham Lincoln.

So he lucked out of it.

Sometimes when I go to the airport, I just guess at my QR code and draw one.

Yeah.

And it comes out right.

I get a right flight.

I'm sure it happens.

Yeah.

It does seem like there's a lot there on that one.

And I think that's been, that's the, in a way, that's what makes me more scared of this is because I think most of these early examples that we could have, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Michael Jackson, R.

Kelly, there's so much against them, and there's legitimate evidence outside of just a documentary that shows, you know, like it looks pretty bad.

And obviously, Cosby and Epstein both either pled guilty or were convicted.

But it's almost worse that it starts that way because at some point, we're just going to start believing this is an okay way to make these decisions.

I think we're almost there already.

Isn't this just the institutionalization of Sololinsky tactics?

I mean, look what they did to me.

Okay?

You and I both know there was a book that came out, said that I

yeah, multiple books and said one said that I killed a girl, raped and killed her.

One said that I went to jail in the 1980s or 90s and driving your GeLorean drunk.

And I was so drunk I was always late for work.

And one day I think Pat had to go bail me out or whatever it was.

What was the other one?

They're just horrible, horrible things.

Absolutely untrue.

Published.

Published.

And what do you do?

Right.

So what do do I do?

I could have sued him, but that would have made that book sell more than five copies, which I think it sold about three, and the author bought those three.

And so they're already doing this.

Look at what they did

at Fox.

Now, I helped by saying things like, you know, Barack Obama, I think he has a problem with race.

Well, I do believe that.

However, that was just handing them something easy to take and turn into something ugly.

Plus, who knew that when you accuse somebody of racism, it makes you a racist?

Never was a new history.

I didn't know that now.

At that time,

that was new.

I can't think of any exact thing.

And it doesn't apply anymore.

It was just for a short time only, for a limited time only.

That was your special offering.

Now you can accuse the president of being a racist, and it's not a problem.

And you're actually going to get in trouble if you don't accuse him of being a racist.

You're now a racist if you don't accuse the president of being a racist.

That's a hell of a turn.

It is.

So I'll probably learn that right as this one exits, and I'll be like, you know what?

I think he is a racist.

And then the next guy will be in, and you'll be like, wait, wait, we flip back again.

I don't know what to do.

But yeah, you're a target.

And

this happens.

I mean, look, it happens to a lot of people who are celebrities or well-known.

I mean, this is not new.

I think there's an evidence, a level of evidence now that is so low.

It's almost like if someone spends a lot of time,

yeah, yeah.

I mean, it goes the other way too.

Like, I mean, making a murderer and serial are two documentaries or podcasts that are saying basically this person's not guilty.

You should believe that he's not guilty.

And it may be true, but again, it's a relatively one-sided case.

This is what documentaries are.

People leave things out, they say things that aren't true.

And now, you know, there's a whole movement of people who want these people out of prison or they want other people in prison.

And again, like that is why we have a freaking legal system.

When it doesn't work, it's good that people

shine light on it.

And I think that's positive.

But it's still,

we have to back up and say, wait a minute, there has to be this additional process that has to be, that occurs inside our legal

construct.

If you don't have that, it's not real.

And we can all sit here and say, well, we think R.

Kelly is guilty.

And, you know, that's my impression as well.

But if.

Are you going to take his livelihood away, are you going to ban him?

You shouldn't think of that.

Not based on allegations.

That's exactly what the left has done now to anyone who disagrees with them.

If you supported

traditional marriage 10 years ago, you're running a company.

Doesn't matter what

they will destroy you and you won't be able to make money.

The same thing.

You have a contrary opinion.

We have somebody on who I disagree with.

I'm pro-vaccination.

But here's a guy who made a movie about the facts on vaccination as he understands them.

He is being banned now.

He's been dropped by Amazon and YouTube.

Is he saying vaccines are dangerous?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

So I don't agree with that.

I don't want to hold this guy up or this movie up and say, hey, everybody should watch this.

I i think this is true i i don't i don't but he should have the right to say it they're not doing that to jim carry who was on that bandwagon for years with jenny mccarthy jenny mccarthy and he still has a career so if you're on the on the left you're you're usually insulated is this guy right-wing no i don't know i don't know i don't know anything about him i i just know this that

people are their lives are being destroyed without a court of law and i don't think you should ban music based on allegations.

Like,

should Michael Jackson's music be pulled off the air in New Zealand and wherever else they're doing this?

No.

No.

No.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen much of that happening in America yet.

I know.

It did.

With R.

Kelly, yes.

With R.

Kelly, yeah, but not Michael Jackson.

I have not seen it yet with Michael Jackson.

Although, it's not a lot of money.

I mean, it's a lot easier to take R.

Kelly's music off the air.

It's one flight.

It's one song, right?

It's like, I believe I can fly.

Oh, no.

Can we exist without that song?

It'll be tough.

R.

Kelly

has sold a lot of

it.

He has to because he's made, I mean, he lives quite the high life.

Apparently, he does.

And he's bought some women.

And so you got to have some money to do that.

Right.

Well, when you say bought women.

Well, he says their parents sold him to him, sold the two girls to him.

So

this is quite a run, though.

Yeah, so is bought, really.

It's just an exchange.

Okay, so

1993 album six six times platinum.

Next one, really?

Next one, five times platinum.

Next one, eight times platinum.

Next one, four times platinum.

Again, platinum, then two times platinum, then three times platinum.

Again, platinum, another platinum, another platinum.

That's impressive.

So that is a run there.

Yeah, that is.

I mean, look at this.

This is chart position for his albums.

Two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, one, one, four, six, five, four.

I mean, that is a hell of a run.

That's from 1993 to 2013.

It's a 20-year run.

That's crazy.

You know, again, we may not be the target demographic.

You think?

You think, but that's a hell of a run.

I'm not a 13-year-old black girl, but.

So I may not be the target demographic.

Although I read in a book, you killed one, which is incredible.

Well, I raped and killed.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

I forgot that.

That's that wrong.

Thank Pat.

Pat Gray for Pat Gray Unleashed, available anywhere.

Podcasts are also available.

By the way, our podcast is available at the same places.

If you haven't subscribed to our podcast, please do.

You can go to iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Please rate and review.

It helps other people find the show.

But it's a great podcast.

And this weekend, who do we have on?

Brad Meltzer.

Right?

Meltzer last weekend.

I think Bob Goff is coming up this weekend.

Is it Bob Goff this weekend?

Bob Goff Weekend.

Goff.

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This is the Glenn Beck program.

Welcome to the Glenbeck Program.

We have some interesting news from Facebook that we want to get to and freedom of speech, but

also Google is back in the news.

Unequal pay.

Finally stepping up on equal pay.

Yeah, finally doing it.

And, you know, they've been horrible on this issue for a long time.

They're being investigated.

They, you know, this has been bad for Google.

And so they conducted a study to determine whether the company was underpaying women and members of minority groups.

And they came back with the study.

It found, to the surprise of just about everyone, that men were paid less money than women for doing similar work.

What?

Wait a minute.

I don't.

The study actually disproportionately led to pay raises for the thousands of men, which is hilarious because because now that's being seen as sexist.

So they were paying them less the whole time.

They gave them raises to make it equal.

And now they're saying, why did you give all the raises to men?

Well, because they were the ones earning less.

But now that's being seen as sexist.

I mean, it's hilarious how this stuff happens.

There's just no way for this just to continue.

This is why, kids, this is why socialism always ends in tyranny.

Because once you stop connecting to verifiable facts, once you stop using reason and you start using feelings, it just all starts to spiral apart.

The center won't hold.

There's just not enough there to hold it together.

And so a strong man has to come in and say, this is the way it is.

It's true.

And you know, we don't, we talk about a lot of people doing a lot of wrong things and a lot of groups doing a lot of wrong things and a lot of human characteristics that are negative and to blame, right?

Parents and, you you know, lack of faith, and there's a lot of that.

We don't give enough blame to feelings.

Feelings are such a freaking problem.

Get rid of your feelings on these issues.

Everyone is like so emotional, and they're making decisions based on, well, I don't want to hurt this person's feelings.

And I just say the truth.

Go into something honestly.

Base it on facts.

And I know we've talked about this a hundred times, and it's true.

Conservatives, a lot of times, lose these battles because they don't address feelings enough.

I think that's true, but it's sad, and it deserves to be called out.

Well, feelings are not how you make these decisions.

I agree with you 100%.

With that being said, there is a place for feelings, and because that is our

human side.

Our human side is compassion and empathy.

So you don't want to kill feelings.

You just, the feelings do not override facts so but that's exactly what they do

i know it's like they're

designed to do right they they they are no they're designed to balance you Maybe.

I think, you know, like a feeling of fear is really designed, you know, if you look at it from an evolutionary biologist sort of says, it's at the fight or flight, right?

Like you're supposed to make decisions with that part of your brain before you have the facts.

If a guy is rushing at you with a knife, you don't want to say, well, wait a minute, is that an actual, first of all, is that an actual knife or a prop knife?

Second of of all, what beef could he possibly have?

With me?

I don't know.

I can't really think about any.

Maybe I should just stay here and wait and talk to him.

Right?

Right.

Like it's supposed to make a decision before facts.

And that's good for that scenario.

It's not good for, well, the inequality of pay between men and women should be addressed.

Well, you might feel that way, but when you find out it's not true.

So can we continue this conversation at the top of the hour?

Because

I agree with you.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say.

I think you're leaving out one thing, and it's where we lose on socialism socialism doesn't make any sense whatsoever no all driven by feeling but until we connect with that feeling we will not destroy it

you're listening to glenn beck

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This is the Glenbeck program.

I want to finish a conversation Stu and I were having a few minutes ago about feelings versus facts.

We have to address feelings, but we also have to address facts.

And right now, we're not doing it.

And it is the balance between the two that I think the country is starving for.

And we begin there in one minute.

This is the Glen Beck Program.

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So, Stu, state your case again on facts, and I'm in complete agreement with you.

I just think maybe we disagree, perhaps, on nuance.

Yeah, my basic

thesis here is that we blame a lot of things for the problems we have in our society.

Things like different ideologies, you know,

people who

maybe don't have enough information, people who

have human characteristics that are flawed in some way.

But the one we don't give enough blame to are feelings.

We don't give enough blame to the idea that emotion and feelings consistently overwhelm actual facts in our society.

It's one of the reasons I became a conservative a very long time ago is because I love the idea that conservatives were the ones who prioritize facts over emotion.

And that played out for a very long time.

I think it still does play out

to some extent.

But just the human species is so overwhelmed by emotion.

And one of the reasons, if you look, if you read Thinking Fast and Slow,

it talks about basically two types, two things that are going on in your brain.

One is this immediate action, right?

So if someone's running at you with a knife,

you don't sit there and think and contemplate what is that person's motivations.

They don't seem like they're very happy with me.

Is that a real knife?

What are they doing?

And then you get stabbed.

You have the thinking fast part of your brain that immediately reacts without thinking at all.

Does not, it just goes, fight or flight, you know, get out of there.

And then you have the other side in places like policy and the way you design a country and individual rights and

adhering to the Constitution.

All of those things are supposed to be exclusively slow.

Slow.

That second part of your brain that's taking the time to contemplate all the positives and negatives, the rational arguments.

And we use the other side of our brain, that emotional,

passionate side, which is great for some things.

It's great for family.

It's great for

movies.

It's great.

It's why people care about music, right?

I mean, it's because that part of you is real, and it's great in those moments.

It was designed for those moments where you might die in the, you know, you're a caveman, you've got a club.

Do I hit the sabertooth tiger with the club or not?

That's what it's designed for.

All right.

So the problem is,

and I agree with everything you just said.

The problem is, is that it's not, the blame is not on thinking fast or thinking slow.

That's neither one of those are the problem or the cure.

The problem is we're not doing both.

It's, you know,

a bird can't fly with only one wing.

I don't want to live in a world without any liberals because

art and everything else will really suck.

Really, really suck.

Music will suck.

Television and movies will suck.

Okay?

And I want to live in that.

But I also don't want to live in a world.

I always bring this back to a theater.

I want all the liberals on stage because you're going to do a show and it's going to be great and it's going to be wonderful.

We're going to pack the house every night and everybody's going to love it and you'll piss some people off, but it'll generally be great.

However, get away from the box office because if you get into the accounting and the box office, we're going to be broke.

I want all the conservatives, all the slow thinkers.

I want them in the front of the house, your back of the house.

Okay.

We need each other.

And to be clear, because of the title of that book, it comes off as strange.

Slow thinkers doesn't mean they're slow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It means that you take your time and consider.

Let me give you an example of how it works in reverse.

Okay.

Everybody thinks that the atomic bomb,

how this is sold to us is that we just bombed Japan because we had this bomb and we couldn't wait to use it.

And we just dropped it on them because, well, they're yellow mongrels.

And so we got to kill them all.

Right.

That was the theory of the time in some of the propaganda.

We've played it before.

Yes, yes.

However.

That's the exact opposite of the people who designed the bomb.

The bomb was designed with very slow thinking.

And as they got closer and closer to perfection of the bomb, they all thought, I don't know if we should do this.

And so they went to the president and they said, I don't think we should do this.

And they slowed thinking down even more and said,

let's count the number of people that we think will die if we don't use the bomb.

And the number of people that will die if we do use the bomb.

And let's not just count our side.

Let's count the Japanese as well.

That's how that decision was made.

It was not like, oh, we got a new bomb.

Let's kill those yellow bastards.

We didn't do that.

We didn't do that.

We knew what we had and we used slow thinking.

But they're accusing us of only using fast thinking.

Okay, now the left loves fast thinking because fast thinking gets them everywhere because the facts are not on their side.

And they want the fast thinking.

A perfect example of this, and you'll recognize it immediately.

After every mass shooting, what do they do?

Guns.

Guns, guns, guns, guns, guns.

And immediately.

Why?

Because if you're thinking slow, and again, that means over a long period of time where you think out every option and what these things mean, you come to the conclusion, well, you look at the stats, the violence is dropping.

These are very rare incidents.

There's all the arguments that you hear on talk radio in the weeks after a mass shooting.

Those are arguments that are not emotional.

They're based on fact.

And this is why you hear this every other time.

One year anniversary of X shooting.

You know, I just, we thought we were going to get this done this time and nothing happened.

It's like, well, no, you thought you were to get this done because you want to heighten the emotion of the incident.

You want people's emotion to overwhelm their factual thinking.

And then you can get your thing done.

And once it's done, it's in place and you're done with the problem.

Okay,

I want to explain this really simply in a different way.

And then we're going to take a one-minute break and I'm going to come back and I'm going to show you it in action.

Okay.

If you want to win, if you want to change

the game, you have to change the way we present ourselves.

All right.

I want you to think of that theater idea that I just gave you, that all the liberals are on the stage doing a great show.

Okay.

And we know that.

We know that, generally speaking, arts and entertainment generally lean left.

Okay.

There's something.

I don't know what it is, but that's what happens.

In touch with their emotions.

Correct.

And generally speaking,

mathematics and business people lean right.

Again, generally speaking.

So we know that the left is attracted to emotion.

The right is attracted to facts.

Fast thinking on the stage, back of house slow thinking.

We also know for a theater to work, it has to have both.

So we need each other.

But what are we doing?

What we're doing is the left will say, here's a problem.

and immediately fast thinking, we have to help them.

We have to help them.

We have to do whatever we can to help them.

Help them, help them.

Help them.

Then

they usually skip over the math.

You're hearing this now with the new Green Deal, where they'll say, Well, it doesn't matter.

Does it matter how much it costs?

Well, yes, it does.

Yes, it does.

That's just a benefit analysis, not a cost-benefit analysis.

Right.

We have to know what it's going to cost because we need to know: is that the best use of our money and our resources to help that problem?

Or are there other problems that we can really impact for the same amount of money?

And is there any other way we can help those people without some big government program?

So once you do the math, remember, front of the house, the stage, they're telling you the story and everybody's saying, we got to help them, which is good and natural.

Then they will tell you, don't pay attention to the people

in the front of the house because they're just evil money grubbers and they don't really care about what we care here on the stage.

And so they convince people not to do the math.

If the people, if the audience does the math, you have a moral case against socialism.

You have a moral case against what they're preaching on the stage.

And it kind of feels bad.

Now,

Let me reverse it.

Let's say you're standing in the lobby, the show hasn't started yet, and you find out about some big crisis.

The bean counters, the right, they're going to say, you know what, we got a real problem here.

Look at the numbers.

Look at the numbers.

My gosh, the numbers are showing us that, well, what we're doing right now is going to eventually go into this direction and it's just going to crash.

And we really shouldn't help without really engaging on the emotional level.

And so everybody's like,

I don't care what the, what are they even talking about?

I don't care.

Then they go into the theater and they hear the emotional plea and they say, that makes me feel good.

I want to help.

These bean counters, they're heartless.

But

if you order it correctly, where you talk about the heart and the emotion, then you do the math.

Then you have a moral case for capitalism.

Not the only case you can make on socialism is a feeling case of socialism.

A moral case.

We say an economic case.

No, a moral case for capitalism.

And let me show you this in action and how we should be arguing when we come back in one minute.

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We break for 10 seconds.

Station ID.

All right.

Let's take the border issue.

We look at the border issue and we see the facts.

We see the facts that

more crime.

We see the facts of people who are citizens who are losing their children.

We see the fact of what it means to our economy, not just the job thing, but also what it means to our economy

with all the free stuff that we're giving illegal aliens now.

It's really crippling us.

We see these people coming that want to overturn America, coming with ill intent in America, and changing us fundamentally.

Now, a lot of those things have real emotions attached to them, but we're not good at talking about that.

We're just not good at it.

When I went down to the border, I told you about how they were keeping kids in cages.

Media didn't want to hear about it.

But we were so

We were so wound up in the don't talk about them, don't humanize this, because then people will feel bad for them.

And what are you doing?

You're helping the border people.

No, no.

I'm speaking the language, the

heart language of probably 70% of the country.

70% of the country feels first.

And on talk radio, we don't feel first, but most people do.

Donald Trump understands this.

Feel first.

Now,

conservatives feel, should feel first, then pause and enter into slow thinking.

I want to show you a guy who I think is a fast and slow thinker, Crenshaw.

Listened to him yesterday talking about the border.

Been a lot of red herrings that...

been thrown out there to argue these points.

Drugs like fentanyl come through points of entry.

Yes, we know.

You would agree with that, right?

Yes.

Does that have anything to do with the conversation about whether we need barriers between points of entry?

It does not because it's not an either or.

There's always the conversation about we just need more technology because then the border agents can just chase people around

because we can sense them coming through.

Is that the only solution or do you need that plus barriers plus personnel?

We need all three.

We also need the ability to detain and remove when there's no legal right to stay.

There's a point often made that the border crossings are the lowest in years.

We had about 400,000 last year, although that's quickly on the rise, as you've noted, 76,000 just this last month.

The point is often made that because it's lower than in the year 2000, that there's no crisis.

Is that accurate?

Is 400,000 a year a low number?

Sir, it's not.

But again, if I could, respectfully, it's because of the flow.

It's because these are families.

It's because these are children.

That is why it's a crisis.

It's a terrible, horrific journey that they undertake.

And let's get to that.

As these arguments are made against points that, frankly, we're not even making.

You mentioned the children and why that's the nexus of this crisis.

Why does that happen?

Is it because of our asylum laws?

Is it because of the fact that if you bring a child across the border, well, and I think as you mentioned this before, if you bring a child with you, it's your ticket into the United States.

All you have to do is claim asylum.

Would you agree that our asylum process is completely taken advantage of?

Yes, sir.

Would you agree that if we were to put more resources at points of entry so that we could humanely bring people in and hear their asylum case, but not let them loose into the country,

would that dramatically reduce these illegal crossings as well?

Would that be part of the solution as well to reform the actual asylum process?

Yes.

Okay, now

this was cut, and I didn't hear the cut.

He danced around this, but what he said before is important.

This is all slow thinking.

We're talking about the number of drugs, number of guns, number of gangs, number of people coming in, the children.

Okay, now he gets to the children.

But what he had said was this.

Now, this speaks to the heart.

Nobody

tell me what he was really talking about tomorrow.

Okay?

Tell me what he was talking about tomorrow.

Let me tell you this story.

He started.

He said, you know, there's some rightful anger about family separation, but unfortunately, it's myopic because nobody even talks about the other issues that we might have when it comes to our humanity.

There was a young woman in my office yesterday.

She's from Mexico.

She's about 18 years old.

She was taken across our border, kidnapped about five years ago.

They were turned back twice by our border patrol.

On the third attempt, they made it through, and she was brought to New York City where she was raped 30 times a day for five years.

Tell me which one you're going to remember tomorrow: the number of people coming across the border or that story.

Look at my own staff cut

that great argument, all intellectual, and left on the the table, heart.

We've got to get into the front of the theater.

Fast thinking,

then slow thinking.

We're doing it the opposite way, and you will never defeat it unless you think fast first.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.

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Today we've been talking about

fast thinking and slow thinking.

The fast thinking is the emotional.

We got to do something.

And that is normal and it is valuable, really valuable.

You know, when people get into the normalcy bias, they die.

The people who tried to make an airplane flying into the World Trade Center into something normal, which is also normal, it's called the normalcy bias.

Those people who said, you know what, I've got to first go turn off the lights in my office, they died.

The people who reacted

normally, not necessarily rationally, normally, saying, we got to get out of here, they lived.

So fast thinking is really important, but slow thinking, looking at the facts,

has to be coupled with it.

Like I said, you know, if all the liberals are doing the show on stage, which they're best at, and the theater is being run by a bunch of bean counters who are slow thinkers, who are generally on the right,

that's important.

We need each other.

We have to have each other.

Otherwise, we're going to have great shows and no money, or lots of money and no shows.

So, we need each other.

Fast thinking and slow thinking must be coupled.

Slow thinking requires differing opinions.

And I want to talk to you about

something.

I want to talk to you here about vaccinations.

But I do not want to get into the vaccination thing.

I am a big believer in vaccinations.

A lot of people aren't.

Fine.

That's a difference in opinion.

But we have entered a place Adam Schiff has come out and said that he believes that we should silence the government, Google, YouTube, Facebook,

and all of these, all of Amazon should

restrict anti-vaxxers, if you will.

Any information that does not fall into line with what the government studies show on vaccinations.

That's extremely dangerous.

One of the guys who has put together

a documentary called

Vaxed

is Del Bigtree.

He's one of the preeminent voices of the vaccine risk awareness movement all around the world.

He's a founder of the nonprofit, the Informed Consent Action Network,

and he is one of the first to be banned.

Welcome to the program, Del.

Thank you very much, Glenn.

Thank you for having me, and thank you for discussing this very important issue.

Yeah, and I want to talk to you, Del, about what happens.

I mean, first of all, what you were told and how this is impacting you and the voices of reasonable people.

And forget it, even unreasonable people.

Just affecting the voices of anybody who believes differently than the federal government.

Well, we've seen this throughout history.

I mean, every time, you know, a government really begins to fail, it starts to use coercion and then bullying.

Then ultimately, I believe this is book burning.

This is a fear that the information that that is against the perspective of the government, if it's out there, it's dangerous.

And oftentimes when we look out, you know, through history, governments start seeing themselves as the victim against

other information.

Or in my case, I would say truth.

You know, I made a documentary about a whistleblower at the CDC that came forward and said that they had committed scientific fraud on the MMR autism study and that they knew that vaccines, the MMR vaccine, could be causally linked to autism in that study and they covered it up and hid it from the people.

It wasn't my opinion.

I made a documentary.

I put people in front of a camera.

I let them speak their truth.

Dr.

William Thompson still works at the CDC.

He is still protected by whistleblower status.

So how is it that that is misinformation, which is what this is being called?

So yeah, censorship at Amazon.

They pulled all, you know, we were on Amazon Prime.

Anybody could watch it.

You could stream it.

And now it's been pulled.

And I think that that's a dangerous step when the government starts getting involved.

Look, we know Amazon is a private company.

They can do what they want.

But when government officials start pressuring private companies and industries to do their bidding or to censor people, then you're moving into a very, very dangerous place.

I mean, it may not be dangerous in China or Iran, but here in America, where we're supposed to have freedom of speech, that is shocking and terrifying.

So, Delta, what are you going to do about this?

What is your recourse?

Well, my recourse is to continue doing what I've been doing for the last three years, which is continuing to investigate our government, our health agencies.

I've won two lawsuits against the Health Agency of America.

I've won a lawsuit against the National Institute of Health.

I won a lawsuit against Health and Human Services, proving that they are not doing the safety research demanded by the laws of this country when it comes to vaccines.

Also, just so you know, I think that the DVD sales of vaccs have gone through the roof.

We're rating higher than we ever have because people in America and around the world still have blood pumping through their veins and when they're told they can't look at something, they become curious.

I mean this is what happened with the film in the beginning.

We got kicked out of Tribeca Film Festival after having been accepted and then Robert De Niro came out and defended the film and even after Robert De Niro defending the film, the pharmaceutical sponsor of Tribeca, the Sloan Foundation, ended up pushing us out and there was nothing Robert De Niro could do.

That censorship drove more curiosity and made Vaxed one of the biggest movies

on vaccine risk around the world.

There's been bomb threats in theaters around the world where VAXT has tried to be screened.

Obviously there's something in this movie that

governments do not want you to see, that the pharmaceutical industry do not want you to see.

And that curiosity is driving, we're going to have the biggest sales this month than we've had in the last three years since we first toured with it.

So then

you would, then the argument on the other side would be, then we're doing you a favor.

They are doing us a favor, but they're not doing the Constitution a favor.

And they're not doing a favor for the future of America.

I'm not worried about sales of my film.

That's not what this is about.

We are talking about censorship.

We are talking about, in this country right now, we are taking away, there's multiple states, there's a push by the federal government, both a congressional hearing and a senate hearing, to take your right to choose what's injected into your children away.

We're seeing it in states all across the country to take your ability to opt out of this vaccine program away.

Let's take vaccines out of this discussion, Glenn.

We are talking about turning our children into government property of the United States government, meaning the government overrides your decision as a parent.

They can inject your child with whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

How in when we look back at history in Nazi Germany and China, how do we think that it would be intelligent to give our government control of our bodies?

And by the way, it's not going to end with children.

There's a policy called Healthy People twenty twenty that Health and Human Services put together, which is a forced vaccination program for every adult in America.

So children are only the beginning.

If we step onto this slippery slope, we are talking about not controlling our bodies, not having the right to say, I don't know what's in that shot you're about to give me.

I don't want it.

I don't want my child to have it.

Is it really outrageous or preposterous to think that we shouldn't have the right to stop injections coming into our own bodies from a government agency?

When it comes to things, and see, this is where

I may disagree with you on vaccines, but I am really torn and I'm in your favor when it comes to choosing yourself.

But I am torn because we do have a social contract with each other for things like polio.

I mean, we got rid of polio.

Now it's coming back.

It's because people are saying, I don't want that.

Well,

okay, does that affect me and my children as well?

I mean, I don't want to have leper colonies where the people who don't have the vaccine have to go off and be in a leper colony.

I also don't want a country where they're telling me I have to have this.

I mean, I have to have this RFID chip put in me because

it makes for

commerce and it

makes them able to track me.

It's for my safety.

They put this chip in now.

The doctor can monitor my heart and everything else.

I don't want any of that stuff.

And you have a right to say no.

It is your body.

That's absolutely right.

And I just want to correct one statement.

Polio is not coming back.

You made that statement.

There's no polio in America.

And the only cases of polio around the world right now are vaccine-strained polio.

They're being caused by the vaccination program in third world countries.

Those are the facts.

What we are talking about, though, is measles.

And perhaps that's what you meant: they're saying that measles is coming back.

And that's not true either.

Actually, when you look at the scientific definition of eradication, that they accept that there will still be swings of measles outbreaks

up to like a couple thousand is still inside of considering it to have been eradicated so a couple hundred people with measles is acceptable it sits within the the realm of still eradicated but the point I think that you're trying to make is that is there a danger to vaccines and I know you don't want to really get into this conversation and anyone that really wants to get into that they can watch the talk show I do every week called the High Wire I'll be on at 11 a.m.

Today, every Thursday, I go on in Pacific Time, and I discuss exactly that.

But the numbers aren't real, Glenn.

We're being lied to about how the numbers work.

The safety of vaccines is what I want to talk about.

I mean, in the end, we can talk about infectious disease, which is all the CDC wants to discuss, is we've eradicated measles.

But if we've eradicated measles and caused one of the greatest autoimmune disease crises of our time, neurological disorders through the roof, when we were getting 10 vaccines in the 1980s, Glenn, we had 12.8% chronic illness in our children.

Now that we give 72 vaccines by the time you're 18, that rate has gone up to 54% of America's children have a chronic illness, either an autoimmune disease or a neurological disorder.

That is a crisis of astronomical proportions.

In the same point, in 1960, you had a death rate of measles of 1 in 10,000.

That's a zero.

That's a zero.

That's a tiny fraction.

At the same time, your rate of autism was one in 10,000.

That means 400 children in 1960 would have been diagnosed with autism.

Today, this year, 100,000 children are going to be diagnosed with autism.

It has grown to 1 in 36 children.

Measles is still at 1 in 10,000.

And you can listen to scientists telling you that it's been debunked.

Vaccines don't cause autism.

Except there's whistleblowers coming out all over the place, including Dr.

William Thompson from the CDC.

Dr.

Andrew Zimmerman was a leading neurologist working for the government.

He's come out and said there is a mechanism by which vaccines cause autism.

The science is crumbling around this plan, and that's why they're trying to shut us up.

I disagree.

But let's talk the facts.

No, no, that's not what you're on for.

That's not what we put you on for.

I'm not going to get into the middle of it.

If people want to find the facts, they know where you are.

I am here to say that freedom of speech, you have the right to say these things.

You have the right to not have your voice silenced.

You have the right to do it, and it is important

for a civil society, if we are to be thinking human beings, to have access to the views that we don't necessarily like or agree with.

We must be able to access those.

And that is the real issue here for me: is Del Big Tree should not be silenced.

You should not be silenced.

And you silence this guy because, well, that's crazy talk.

Well, once they get rid of the ones that you think are crazy, who's next?

You eventually lose your own ability to speak.

And it is real and it is happening.

We must stand against anything that goes against individual liberty because that is truly what made America great.

Del, thank you so much.

God bless.

You can find Del Bigtree at icandecide.org.

Took a great restraint from Stu.

Great restraint from Stu.

It's our commercial this half hour.

Glad we have anything.

You really are not going to...

You're not going to

present the other side.

No point.

All right.

All right.

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This is the Glenn Beck program.

I'm really,

saddened by the announcement of Alex Trebek.

You're not a fan of Alex Trebek?

No, I think he's great.

I mean, he's, I mean, I can't say that I watch Jeopardy all the time.

I used to watch it all the time.

Yeah, I mean, but it's still, he's a, seems like a great guy, everything I've ever heard about him.

Yeah.

I used to, when I lived out west, um, when I was younger, I used to watch, uh, my wife and I would watch Jeopardy every every night.

Uh, what she didn't know is that, uh, I would be riding with somebody in New York, And so they, while we were writing for the next day,

he'd just give me all the answers for Jeopardy.

And so he'd just go, oh, by the way, in Jeopardy, this question is coming up.

Here's the answer.

And I'd just write it down.

And then a couple hours later, when Jeopardy would come on in my time zone,

I seem like a genius.

Never told her.

This is in Groundhog Day, wasn't it?

No, not Jeopardy.

Was it?

Was it for Jeopardy?

No, in Groundhog Day?

I think it was, yeah.

And he knew all the answers.

Of course, that was a little bit bit of a different situation.

Yeah.

But you kind of perfected that in advance.

No, it's good.

And, you know, so if you know somebody in a time zone, a different time zone that's ahead of you, make sure you call them every day, talk about whatever it is, and just get a few of the answers in Jeopardy, and you'll look like a genius.

And then, strangely, your marriage will break up and it'll be miserable and horrible.

And okay, so don't take any of this advice.

We just wish Alex Trebek all of the best.

Our thoughts and prayers are with Alex Trebek.

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The fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

This is the Glembeck program.

So the Democrats just cannot decide whether they're

whether they have a problem with anti-Semitism or not.

Wow.

We're going to talk about that.

And we have a guy who has also just signed a loyalty pledge.

And who doesn't like loyalty pledges?

Bernie Sanders joins us in just a moment.

Standby, 60 seconds away.

First, let me tell you about Mercury Real Estate.

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I worry about people who have adjustable adjustable mortgages.

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We are fortunate to once again have Bernie Sanders just stopping by.

Hey,

how are you?

I'm very well.

I'm very strapping, feeling virile, young, good, energized by the campaign of the election and the goodwill of the American people.

Right.

Now, you just signed a loyalty

pledge, which means that what?

I signed a loyalty pledge saying that in the unlikely event that I lose the Democratic primary, if I should lose the Democratic primary, I will not run as an Independent.

I will stay as a Democrat, and I've done that because I'm so confident that I will win.

And if not, I will win in the next election or the next one.

And I've decided also to pledge to keep running for president until at least 2072.

All right.

Well, you're, I don't know if you've noticed this, but you are getting up there in

getting a little long in the tooth.

My goal, Glenn, and I think the American people would agree with me, my goal is to have the same age as all of the other entrants to the presidential race combined.

And so I am rapidly approaching that, and I believe that will be peak burning.

Okay, so now you are actually ahead.

Am I not

mistaken?

I am winning winning in the polls.

That's true.

I'm winning in the polls right now.

Of the people that have announced.

Of the people that are announced, but one of the people that looks like he's going to announce and is beating you is Joe Biden.

Joe Biden, yes.

Joe Biden, Joe Biden is the embodiment, the embodiment, Glenn, of the establishment, of an establishment that props up the top 1%, of the top 1%, of the top 1%.

Also, he has hair plugs.

And that man is corrupt, except when he is running against a Republican, in which case he is a valiant hero that I support and my good friend.

Okay.

So he is your good friend.

He is a quantum friend.

Right.

He is both a good friend when he is running against a Republican, but also a terrible person when running against Democrats.

Right, okay.

Quantum state plan.

I'm capable of these things.

Okay, all right.

So

and he's

I mean, he's getting up there in years as well.

No, he is,

in my opinion, he is wildly inexperienced and too young to become president.

He barely knows about football,

about politics.

He's just going around spilling people's collarbones.

That's what he does.

And he barely knows about football?

I know, Glenn, I'm actually, in addition to running for president, I'm writing a book on football.

Are you?

And

I'm told that you are not a huge football fan.

May I explain the game to you?

Sure, I guess.

So there is a big field.

It's reminiscent of the work and toil of the American agricultural sector done by good populists in the middle of the country.

And there are two teams.

Do you know who the two teams are, Glenn?

No.

The two teams are the players and the owners.

Those are the teams.

There are two teams, the players and the owners, and all the people in the stands that are being lied to by thieving monsters that own the teams.

And once I'm president, they will get their due.

I am telling you that right now.

Well, wait, first of all, that team is not on the field.

No, it's not.

It's not on the field team.

It's a shadowy team.

It's a shadowy team that controls the things.

And they've made it so it's a slanted field.

When you look at a football field, you're like, well, that's self-explanatory.

It's a putting green with white lines.

I get this, right?

No, it's a slanted field.

It's a slant because you think I'm going to kick the ball harder.

They'll give me more balls.

That's how football works.

No, you don't get more balls.

You kick as hard as you want.

The balls go to the rich people.

And that's football.

All right.

I don't think that, I mean, I don't know anything about football, but I don't think that makes any sense at all.

That I look it up.

Look it up.

Those are the rules of football if you actually look into it.

All right.

Okay.

Well, Bernie, it's,

I mean, it's, it's been educational.

Thank you.

And, Glenn, on that note, I would like to remind you that I have several policies that I think your listeners would get behind.

First and foremost, I think everyone agrees that Medicare for All would be a very popular policy for everyone on earth.

And I remain dedicated to Medicare for All for everyone on earth.

But on top of that, I believe that education is a priority in the United States.

It is not a luxury.

It is a right.

You have a right to education.

You have a right to any education, any time, however much you want, for however long you want.

So

I could go into college today.

Well, Glenn, in your case, you would have to go into college today.

I would have to go into college today.

Yes, I believe that college should be voluntary or obligatory.

And I will, in your case, I think that there are certain things you would like.

It would benefit you to know them.

So wait a minute.

So would I go to like Harvard or Yale or someplace like that?

Harvard and Yale will be destroyed under my plan.

They are

pupa-en-gorged centers of breeding for the 1%.

No more of them.

No more of them.

Everything's community college.

Everything will be divided.

So Harvard will be eight community colleges, and yes, you would be locked in one of those until you came to your senses.

Okay.

Wait a minute.

So it's like a re-education.

It's not sort of.

Yes.

You would be reading a lot of canes, and you would be forced to wear a Shagua Vera t-shirt.

Okay.

All right.

Okay, Bernie, best of luck to you.

And I mean, thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Bernie Sanders on the

program once again.

Stu,

let me bring back to the thing that you talked about earlier, about emotions sucking.

Yes.

Yeah.

Basically, I believe much of the problem that we,

many of the problems that we have in this country, are based on the idea that

we

let emotion and feelings overwhelm facts and rational argument.

And you brought up a great point about how the border is argued, in which people will remember the stories about the border, and that will help move them to the correct policy.

And then you give them the facts afterwards.

And I agree with your approach.

I think it is necessary to do.

I'm just complaining about the fact that it's necessary to do.

I just think that

it's a human failing.

Oh, it's not.

It is.

Feelings suck.

in many ways.

Feelings are great.

And they're great for certain things, just not for the things we apply them to in the United States, which is, you know, oh, well, I heard the story about

some, you know, a poor person in

some region

and they can't get help, and therefore, capitalism is evil, right?

Like, we take this and

we misapply feelings.

Feelings are great for, as you kind of mentioned, theater, right?

Go to the theater.

Loving your wife and family.

No, but this is what I would see.

This is one of the reasons why we continually lose.

See, what they do is they present, the left presents something that makes you feel.

Then they immediately tie that to a solution, which is usually socialism and is wrong.

Right.

Okay.

Yes.

What we do is we come out with the solution.

Well, think of

America being 80%

woman.

Okay.

Okay.

Sometimes they just want you to listen and not solve the problem.

And what men do is they'll, you know, you'll come home and she's like, I just, you know, I just, I just don't feel like I have time to do everything and the kids, and then you immediately step in and go, honey, it's not that.

I tell you what, here's what we're going to do.

And then

they will maximize time by cutting out these three activities that you don't actually need.

And I can help you with these other two and we can assign these to this person and everything will be fine.

Not what she wants.

It does not work.

It does not work.

And that's what conservatives are doing to the country.

We are sitting down and we're saying, and I'm not saying that those solutions are wrong and that we should present those solutions, but sometimes you just have to let it run its course.

Sometimes you have to validate it.

Sometimes you have to be leading the way.

You know what?

I understand how you feel.

Look at this.

And have you even thought of this?

Boy, I've been watching you, and it's even more screwed up than you think.

You know,

you have enter

into

the heart of people first.

Everything you're saying is true.

I just think it's terrible that it's true.

No, but it's not.

It's not.

No, it's not.

Yes, you should be.

It is the emotional storyline.

Why are we in tribes right now?

Why are we so divided and we cannot listen to each other?

Because we are overly emotional and it takes over all the rest of the points that are being made.

Yes.

Nobody does that.

We all feel that we are under attack.

And so, because of man's survival as a species, we have put ourselves into tribes.

And anybody who comes into our tribe that

has a problem with a tribe and starts to divide us, we immediately all regroup and get that person out of our tribe.

Okay?

That's just from thousands and thousands of years of humanity.

That's a good thing.

But if it's not balanced, it's a bad thing.

So if we are all reason,

you know who you turn into?

Eugenicists.

I totally disagree with that.

All reason.

All reason.

No feeling.

That's not true at all.

Reason and principle have to be put together.

In principle, you don't just turn people and lose their individual rights.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

We're not giving that opportunity opportunity with

emotions because I'd say to you, well, no, emotions with principles.

I'm just saying the raw reason, the raw emotion.

Bad.

I mean, but the reasoning behind eugenics was horrible, and it was almost exclusively driven by emotion.

It was driven by, I don't like black people, I don't like Jews, therefore.

But if you, if you, you could make a case on some really bad things by saying,

look, socialists do it all the time.

Look, we're doing it right now with vaccines.

Shut people up and force everybody to take this vaccine because vaccines are not dangerous.

They're just not dangerous.

So anybody who is slowing this down is actually harming society.

Well, you know how that ends, and I know how that ends.

You start chipping away at man's right, especially man's right to control his own body.

That's a no-go zone.

Okay.

So, but it's all reasonable to think that.

It is one of those things that you're like, well, I mean, we're struggling with it because I don't want to give away man's rights, but we do have a social contract with each other, et cetera, et cetera.

So it just goes down that road.

You have to have both of them, but they have to be balanced.

You can't have just

fear and no facts.

Right.

We certainly can't have fear and no facts.

That's a terrible combination.

I think we could, on the overwhelming majority of cases, you can have facts with no fear.

You can just, it's just

at least not a lot of fear.

When you say balance, I think the issue is, is there a role in our lives for fear?

Yes.

And I don't want to do it just fear.

No.

Heart.

No, whatever.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, there's a lot of cases where you have real sympathy for a victim of something.

Step back for a second and think about terrible mass shootings.

Every single one of them.

One of the worst days of my life, and this shows how tough my life has been, but I was reading about the Newtown thing several years after it happened, after the shooting.

It is like gut-wrenching to read.

It is completely pointless.

There wasn't even like the stupid, you know, some worldview being advanced.

It was just some guy doing something with no reason.

And these are little children.

And

it is impossible to not think about that story.

And this is, you know, from my home state.

It connects very

intensely to me.

However, 0%

of gun regulation should be made upon that because of that emotion.

0%.

Not 10%.

0%.

Because you can't.

Not disagreeing.

That's not how you make policy.

Not disagreeing.

That's not how you form a society.

The principle is going to be much more important there.

And I understand that, like, you know, the left would say, well, that's the only way to get people to move.

No.

I'm not even saying that all the time.

I'm not even saying that.

I'm saying that we are, it is unreasonable to say.

We are two people.

Let me break for one minute and then come back.

And I want to use the Newtown thing as an example, okay?

Because

what you just said

is really important, but not about gun control.

Let me give it to you in a second.

First, let me tell you about Norton, leading social media companies, going to end its market research program, actively taking its VPN app off of the app stores.

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Yeah, I saw that.

They're going to make all the messages private now.

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10 seconds, station ID.

What would you say?

What would you say one of our biggest problems is

socially right now?

What's missing in our

debates with one another?

It's going to be a hard one to answer.

I would suggest empathy.

I mean, this shows where we are.

I would suggest reason.

Okay.

I would suggest empathy because we are all so

we're all so locked into our position because we all feel under attack that I'm not going to take the time.

I don't care what is what your story is because you won't listen to my story.

You won't even listen to my pain.

You know what I mean?

And your policies, your things you're talking about, the people you support are causing my pain.

So

I don't have natural empathy.

And when we are at our best, we say what our parents used to say in America.

You know, you don't know what's going on in their life.

Don't judge them.

Just, you know, everybody's different.

We're not like that anymore because we are lacking empathy.

So empathy is, empathy is natural and it is good.

When you hear about the shootings,

the Newtown shootings, it is good for us to take the time and breathe.

Now, this is not what the left does.

Take the time and breathe and grieve.

That's normal, rational, and has to be done.

We have to empathize.

with the others, with the people that have been killed.

What happens is

people immediately start to use that

because when you're in that state, you are very vulnerable.

You don't make any good decisions when

you are mourning, when you're really sad, really upset.

You just never make any good decisions.

And so people know, left or right, usually on the left, in my opinion, that

We can attack right now.

The only time they ever really talk about real gun control is right as as the country is still mourning.

You would push those people out of your way if that was your funeral.

You would say, get out of here.

Not an appropriate time.

So, what we do is we almost come prepared for that argument.

And logic tells us we should come prepared because that's exactly what they're going to do.

But we look like we don't have any empathy because we immediately countercharge with facts,

where instead we should do what they do when they're on the losing side, which is say, this is so inappropriate.

There are dead children.

We need to stay engaged in the feeling part to be able then to roll it into

the

at the appropriate time, the facts.

We're missing the obvious place to engage people, and that is with heart.

You have to start there for 70% of the people.

And there's a lot to say, I think, about all of this.

But again, I think my distinction stands here, which is

I am admitting the reality that you are right.

Yes.

You are right.

If you do not engage people with their heart, they will not listen to any of your other arguments.

That's just a human failing though that that is a the fact that these things get overwhelmed by emotion and people can't think that is that is a problem with us that i wish and i hope someday gets cured i hope someday we figure out how not to do that and that's the only thing i have to disagree with you on i just know we just agreed you're listening to glenn bank

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as glenny points out never argue with the host of a show because he knows when the commercial is coming up but more specifically don't argue with the person with the 10 seconds of tease right before the real commercial is starting right now.

Believe him, if you

know,

here's the thing: you're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

If you just joined us, we've been having this conversation off and on now for the last three hours.

And

Stu and I are,

I think,

the prime example

of my theory

that I've been talking about.

If you want to win an argument, you cannot delve into facts first.

You must lead with heart because most people connect to things like that.

When you're just going out with a bunch of facts and figures, forget about it.

Why is socialism popular?

Because people aren't thinking.

They're feeling.

They're feeling.

And it is natural and good to see see things in justice and say,

this is horrible.

This is horrible.

It spurs you to action.

Correct.

Right.

And

it is good and right to feel something when you see someone suffering.

Now, what you do with that,

you know, right now, what you're doing is somebody should do something.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

You should do something.

Right.

But you're saying it's good.

You say it's natural and good.

It's definitely natural.

I will give you that.

Is it good?

Why is it good?

It's good because what you're saying is it spurs people to action, to actually care about these things and do something about it.

I just wish you didn't need that prompt because I agree with you.

That is how people are.

You know, churches talk about this sometimes.

It's like, okay, well,

are you a charitable person?

Well, who's a charitable person?

The person who walks up to a homeless person, feels empathy, feels a story, gives them money, money, and walks away.

I did something good today.

Or the person who every single week gives money because

they have a plan and have given money, and it's helped hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of homeless people because they've actually made a decision to do something over a long period of time.

Okay, you're missing one category.

I'd like to add a third.

Sure.

Or is the person

charitable that says,

you know, this is horrible, that homeless person,

you know,

the government should do something.

And that's why I'm for higher taxes.

Okay.

I would say that was the least effective.

I think both of the others are good.

They can both be good.

Right.

You know, I think they work at some level.

You could argue that they work in tandem.

But the story, however, should, if it inspires people to action, that's why people do it.

And you're completely right.

People need it.

I just wish they didn't need it.

I just wish you could say, like, okay, you know,

here's a situation.

We know this is a bad situation.

How do we act in the most rational way possible to make that decision better?

And I think it's, you know, you described a conversation earlier where

you said, you know, you were talking about empathy.

And you said, well, one person, how do we feel when we're in these conversations?

Well, we feel like we're under attack.

We're not hearing each other.

One person says, well, you're always coming after me and you're not hearing me.

And then you said the other thing, empathy, would bring you to a point where you'd say, look, wait a minute.

Well, we don't know how that person feels.

Let's step back and think about it for a second.

And we don't know how that person feels.

We can't judge.

Let me listen.

I would argue what you're saying.

Yeah.

The second thing is actually the rational side.

The emotion and

the feelings are the thing making you go, darn it, darn it, darn it.

I'm mad.

I don't want to hear you.

The rational side is the person stepping in and saying, wait a minute, we don't know what they're going through.

Let's think about the potential.

This happens all the time with my wife.

Every time someone parks too close to her, she wants to leave a nasty note

on their windshield, and she gets all pissed off, and she starts texting me, and she sends me pictures of how badly they parked, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And to me, there's a like,

I always, of course, discourage this for multiple reasons.

But one of which is, you know, look, you really don't know what's happening with them, what happened.

Maybe the person who was there before you parked terribly.

Maybe that you put this on their

windshield.

They see you do it and they pull out a gun and shoot you.

There's a hundred different reasons to not put that thing out there.

And it does no good to put it on the windshield.

At no point does this person say, you know what?

Six months ago when that

I saw that note and that makes me, I'm on a park a lot more carefully now.

There's no rational outcome to that.

It just makes you feel good in that moment.

And those are the types of things that we do, I think, in policy that really cause us problems.

We act out of fear.

We act out of emotion.

And

politicians in Washington know exactly what you're talking about, which is if

we can get them lit up with an emotional story, we can do the things we want to do.

Correct.

I know you're not using it for that purpose, but they do.

I know.

And that's a problem.

I know.

And I'm not, I'm saying that we have to connect people on an emotional level.

Why did I miss Donald Trump?

Why did I miss so many people that listened to me for years going for Donald Trump?

Because I was thinking about everything logically on, I'm worried about the next one.

What happens in 2020?

If this guy doesn't roll, the pendulum is going to swing, and you're going to have even a more out-of-control guy than you had with Barack Obama.

Well, that's kind of what's happening.

But nobody was there at that time.

They were feeling under attack.

Right.

And they needed somebody to stand up for them.

And that's what they needed at the time.

Now.

Let me go back to the theater thing where I I said emotions on the stage.

That moves an audience.

And that's generally left.

Generally right is

just methodical thinking.

You need both.

What I'm saying is, you need both.

You have to

feel.

And then you have to stop

and look at the facts.

That's where we would win because we always say we have the facts.

Yes, but we don't tell the story.

So we have to have the story and the feeling first because that's where people are.

No, you're right.

That is where they are.

And to be effective, you are completely right.

That's how you feel.

But let me give you this.

There's one time I want to go to the gym in my life, and it's like right after Thanksgiving because I feel such like a just a fat lump.

I feel so disgusting.

And then I drag myself to the gym for a week.

Well,

the good thing here,

I feel like you're arguing, well, yeah, but you have to eat the huge meal to go to the gym.

So we have to feed them the nine pieces of pie or they'll never go to the gym.

And I say, you're right, but we should just go to the gym.

What I'm saying to you is, let me give you two examples.

Let me see if I can use it off of your example with going to the gym.

What I'm saying is...

This is very difficult territory because we do not understand what we're talking about when the gym is.

I know, I know.

So we're going to get the gym thing wrong.

but uh what i'm saying is no no no

stu people are going to feel like fat pigs

okay

it would be nice if people didn't feel like fat pigs but they're going to right so if i'm just talking about the price of my gym yes i'm going to miss it it's not going to be affected but if i'm like hey You feeling like I feel?

Big, fat, fatty?

We got a deal for you.

Come on in.

Right.

And I think that this is exactly, I keep coming back to this, but like what you just you just said, it would be nice if they just went to the gym.

That's my point.

It would be nice if we didn't need to do that because people looked at things rationally, but they don't.

There's an entire Daniel Kahneman's book, Thinking Fast and Slow, is completely about this.

It is how people actually work

in reality.

So, what I'm saying to you, let me give my last example,

is

this entire hour has been

a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

This show is, I am the guy, I'm the guy who's like,

you know,

I really think that

Zuckerberg, I think he really wants to be a good guy.

I'm giving him the benefit.

And you're like, can we look at the facts?

It's good to have both.

It's good to have both.

I think, yes.

I think life, it's great to have both in life.

Yes.

In policy, in political arguments, not so much.

However, I would say it's nice that you've realized that both of us put together is a rational human being.

Like a complete human being.

Yes,

without the other.

We're a horrible Cyclops, I think.

Yes.

Three eyes or one eye?

Cyclops is one eye.

One eye.

Yeah.

We're a horrible cyclops.

All right, we'll have to work that one out.

We need another

person.

We don't know Cyclops.

We need a third person here, and then we'll be a complete individual.

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This is the Glenn Beck program.

You know, on tomorrow's program, I think I'm I'm going to write the story of Ocasio-Cortez's mother.

You know, a lot of people saw that story, and, you know, and what they took away from it.

What did you take away from it, Stu?

Well, the big takeaway was that she moved to Florida to avoid taxes, which was very humorous considering her daughter just wants to raise them on everybody.

Right.

That's what I took too.

However, in reading that story,

you'll have great empathy and respect for her mother.

And there is a way to make this point

in a way that would be effective to people who feel it.

Because anybody on the left, when they read that story, they're not going to take away the taxes thing.

They're going to say, finally, she's got a break.

Finally, the system worked so hard to raise this amazing daughter.

And now she finally gets a break from the evil capitalist system.

So tomorrow, I'm going to tell you the story

based on just the story that's been released.

I'll tell you that story and then I'll make the case for capitalism

using emotional triggers, if you will, and facts

to show you how to argue and how to see

and empathize with the pain people are in and the pain people feel.

There is a moral case for capitalism.

It's a great one.

It's a great moral case for capitalism.

And there is a great moral case against socialism.

And we are going to be doing, in 10 years, five years, we're going to be doing one or the other.

We're either still going to be free market and we'll clean up some of the issues that we have or we are going to be state-run.

And

it's a moral case.

And the socialists are making a moral case of it right now without any of the facts.

And we are making a fact-driven case without any of the emotion.

We will lose.

Right.

And the whole hour has been basically about this where I think you're right.

I mean, I am completely arguing with you

on what I think the way the world should be, not the way the world is.

The way the world is is what you're talking about.

And

perception is reality.

It doesn't matter what the world should be.

Let me give you a great example, I think, of story versus fact argument that's happened very recently and shows where this can go.

It's Brett Kavanaugh.

Yes.

They had a story.

This woman, this great achieving woman who came in and was abused by this frat boy guy and did all these terrible things to her.

And what we said is, wait a minute, when?

Where?

Was anyone around?

Do you have any witnesses?

We have a process here.

Have you even attempted to come up with one person who can actually corroborate that the party even occurred?

Actually, not true.

We won because we didn't do that first.

First,

the GOP for the first time did something right.

First, they said, oh my gosh, that is horrible if that's true.

And we certainly don't want anything to do with him if that's true.

So please come in and talk to us.

All right, you're not going to talk to us.

Okay, we're going to get this woman because we want to make sure you're comfortable and she does this for a living.

And we just, boy, we are so sorry.

Remember how she was approaching this?

She's so sorry.

Then, when the facts came out and started pulling the holes in it, then after that emotion, after that hug, then Lindsey Graham said, This is wrong

and capitalized on the emotion

of an injustice.

They were putting up an emotion of an injustice.

We listened to that.

He started using reason, and that pulled tolls and made this injustice that they were fighting for an injustice that was even bigger.

We won because we played the story right.

And I think that's exactly the point of this, right?

Like those two things, to win arguments in the United States of America, and really anybody, any human being, you have to have those two elements.

I mean, you know, it's a...

Facts and story, and we're the only ones that have the facts right.

Yeah, you keep saying heart, and I think story's better because, I mean, story, I think, also includes comedy.

Doesn't.

It includes just storytelling, where you're feeling not necessarily pulling on your heartstrings, but getting you immersed in that moment so you actually get pulled in enough to care about it, and then you actually care about the facts.

I think comedy is the same thing.

John Oliver does this well for the left, which is he'll do, you know, he does a horribly incorrect rant about net neutrality for 20 minutes.

I mean, 20 minutes of net neutrality talk is legitimately the recipe for suicide for for most people.

But he makes it funny.

He keeps you there with the funny.

It's the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

My God.

It is a way, it is a successful way to

win arguments, for lack of a better way of saying that.

I think it's not really about winning arguments, but about getting your point across and seeing if people will listen to your perspective.

You do need those two things.

You know, it goes to,

you know, you go up to somebody, you're looking for a date, you're in a bar,

the person across the bar may have the greatest personality in the entire universe, but if you're not attracted to them, you never find out about it.

And

those two things working together, you're right.

Republicans do not do that enough.

I mean, you know,

it only works when you pair them together.

And when the economy, and it will eventually, hopefully not before 2020, but it will eventually go into recession and it could be a hard crash, that's when emotions will be really high, and we better be good at story and facts.

You're listening to Glenn Beck.