Ep 4 | Cassie Jaye | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Have you ever honestly questioned and challenged your own belief?

Even when it was uncomfortable, even when you knew it was going to shake the foundations of your life and your relationships, are you willing to go there and question?

If you've done it, you have one thing in common with all the others who have done it: courage.

They face the uncomfortable.

They walked through the unknown.

They learned the kinds of things that can only be discovered when you're on an honest search for truth.

Honest search.

That doesn't happen very often anymore.

On this episode of the podcast, I met with Cassie J.

I find her one of the most honest and humble people, in my opinion.

And this conversation is frankly shocking in her ability to say, okay, wait a minute, let me just try this thought out.

I don't know if this will even work.

Shocking for someone to be as vulnerable as she is.

Three years ago, she was a liberal feminist and she decided to investigate the men's rights movement.

She thought at the time that they were misogynists, but she wasn't going in just to do a hit job.

She was willing to listen and talk to both sides.

Somewhere in the process, she began to question her own belief.

We dive into the taboo topics surrounding gender equality, child custody rights, even abortion.

Come to the table with a wide-open mind on this one.

Today's podcast, Cassie J.

Describe yourself

five years ago.

Who were you?

Well,

I was very feminist.

I was very liberal, although I would say today I still am am liberal, but I guess that's debatable.

Wait, wait, debatable for you or debatable for the people that you used to be friends with or used to have support from?

I feel like my liberal views didn't change, but the center shifted.

So I think as far as my politics and

why I became a Democrat and a liberal.

So can you describe liberal?

How do you mean what do you mean by liberal?

That's great because we do have to define the words we use.

Yeah.

Unlike post-modernists, I think words have meaning.

Yeah, but we all have to use the same dictionary.

That's the problem.

That's why there's so much miscommunication.

So liberal to me means

wanting to do what's best for the whole and consider

those that are most disadvantaged in the system.

And

this is where I start to lose my footing a little bit which is

are we all born with a hierarchy based on our race and gender and things like that.

And you would have five years ago said yes.

Yes, absolutely.

I was a Marxist feminist

but now I'm

I think when we talk about social issues and politics today, we really have to look at right now what's going on and I think

of course looking at history is is beneficial to educate yourself and know how to move forward in the best way.

But I do think that times change.

And to me, the country is not the same country it was 10 years ago.

And politics aren't the same as they were 10 years ago.

And 10 years ago, I was a different person.

I was making a documentary on sex education and women's rights.

I had

Planned Parenthood hosted a Northwestern and Alaskan screening tour of my film.

And so I was speaking on behalf of Planned Parenthood and going to the marches and standing with them.

Then I made a film on gay marriage.

And that was a few years before it was legalized across the nation, same-sex marriage.

And

I think what's consistent is I look

at who the underdog is, and I want to stand up for them and give them a voice.

And so I do

I am proud of the work I did ten years ago and five years ago, but I think today it is a different world.

So what is

I'm trying to understand?

You would think, because this is the way people are now, that things are different than they were 10 years ago, but they're just much more intense.

And now everything's riding on it.

And now is not the time to let your foot up off the gas.

What do you mean things have changed in the last 10 years?

Not the same country.

And so it's

but what's changed?

I think there has been a power shift.

And

I don't know if we'll agree on this or if you'll see my point of view on this, because I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so I really am in a bubble of

liberal thinking for everything.

And in the Bay Area, I feel like my views are conservative, although I still proudly say I'm a liberal.

But I think

there's so much of one side and one opinion and so much silencing of anything that critiques that mainstream view.

And

I think the tribalism has gotten so out of control that you're not able to

raise your hand and say, hey, maybe we're not doing this right with our own tribe.

Maybe we should look at that.

That doesn't really follow with what we're saying we're about.

But I've found that you're not allowed to criticize your own tribe, or you'll be kicked out and

labeled with all the other people they see as their enemy.

I think that's happening on both sides.

I mean, I think if you, you know, it's, I hear a lot of train talk lately.

You're either on the train or you're off the train.

Well,

you know, where's the train going?

Where's the train going?

So you

were very liberal and

with Planned Parenthood and feminists and Marxists.

Was the turning point the red pill for you?

Yes.

Tell me about that.

So I went in with the intention of helping women's rights by exposing the misogynists that are keeping women down.

And so in 2013, I started filming men's rights activists to make the red pill movie.

And I was a staunch feminist myself of about 10 years.

And I Why did they trust you?

I don't think they did trust me.

I think they were eager to finally get table uh to be able to speak their views and have a journalist

share their views with the world, whether whether or not it was positive or negative.

They were just happy to be getting the call for

for the press.

So they didn't trust me And actually, I think, you know, in the beginning, in the early days of Making the Red Pill, feminists were really fascinated by what I was doing.

And I actually got

offered funding by a major feminist organization.

And I turned it down because I didn't want to be answering to anyone.

I didn't want to lose creative control over the project.

Good for you.

You know how rare you are?

Sincerely.

I know.

I do know, actually.

I've seen this happen on both sides, where

people will come in and they say, no, no, we're just looking for the truth.

And then they edit, and it's all agenda-driven.

And

not only that,

I can't tell you how many interviews I've done where I'm on your side of the table.

The interviewer is not listening.

They're not listening.

They have...

their storyline that they want to do and they're not listening.

When you you talk to them, you could just put your hand in front of their eyes.

Hello, are you even in there?

Are you listening?

They are,

they're not,

there's no genuine curiosity, it seems, many times.

Have you seen that?

Oh, yeah.

I mean,

they're...

To give a bad analogy to it, it's like a pitcher with someone up to bat.

You know, if you're on the same team, you want to give a good pitch so so that they hit it out of the ballpark for training.

But if you're on the opposite team, you want them to miss, strike out.

And I do think that the

well, and see, I hate to

make a blanket statement about all liberal press that, but it is mostly the far-left press that has

embellished and

falsified my information.

How about this?

Because

it has been for you and it has been for me but i've also seen it i've also seen it on on you know disreputable uh websites etc etc on the on the right

uh

that it is it is um

it's those who believe they are right and will do anything i think that's the problem is we become certain of our point of view.

And so when I walk into an interview, like you walked in with them,

if you were certain that you were right and they were wrong, you didn't have to listen to them.

You just need them to get you to say the things that you know they're going to say, and then you'll edit that.

And if they don't say those things, well, you're certain that that's who they are anyway.

Right?

Yeah, oh, yeah.

So, what made you different?

Why didn't that happen to you?

Well, I did go into interviewing men's rights activists, assuming the worst of them.

And I was hoping for them to lash out, to say anti-women things, to maybe even threaten me,

because I was going in with an agenda.

I was.

And then I realized that of the 44 people I interviewed for the red pill,

that was not the story I gathered.

And I spent

two

two hours, up to eight hours interviewing each individual person.

And it was not

the

truth of the matter was not what I set out to make a film about.

But I had over 100 hours of footage.

And I do believe that I went on probably the most beneficial, life-changing experience of my life to date.

I'm 32.

But it changed my life for the better, hearing their perspective.

learning about these issues and how it influenced my own relationship with now my husband of almost three months.

So I knew that there was a story here, and if only I benefited from going on this journey, so be it.

But

I wanted it to become a documentary because I wanted to share with everyone else what I'd learned.

Thinking at the time your side would say, oh, wow, interesting.

I actually did think that my feminist colleagues would appreciate the film I made because it is about gender equality.

It's just looking at the other gender, men.

And so I thought I would have support from my leftist feminist friends.

And when I started to show them the trailer and the teaser video I had for a Kickstarter campaign I was crowdfunding for post-production,

they told me that they didn't want to promote it because it didn't show men's rights activists being violent.

They wanted to see them being violent in the video.

And I didn't have that.

They weren't violent.

So

I realized

I wasn't going to have automatic support from the feminist community.

But I ended up having support from people who support free speech when they realized that I, in a way, indirectly, I was being silenced because I had media silence from the left, like a gag order, to not talk about this film, don't make eye contact with this filmmaker.

So indirectly, you know, it is a form of censorship if you can't get your story out there through the press.

A couple of questions.

First,

because in watching, you did

a great service.

You kept a video diary.

And

you can see the struggle in you

as some of your worldview is starting to crumble a little bit.

And

I can't help but think, because

I know people think this about me and I think this about people.

I just did an interview with somebody last week and I started the interview with,

I don't know if I can trust you.

You know,

how did you beat back the doubt of, I'm being duped?

I mean, are these guys,

are they real?

How did that happen?

Did you go through that?

Oh, yeah.

And then sometimes I think the MRAs are just

duping me

and

giving such a strong pitch about what they believe in to convince me of something that's actually just

some out there theory that men are discriminated against and women are have the advantage.

My journey in making the red pill was much more

these very high and very low spikes.

And in the film I show some of that, my struggle going through trying to listen to men's rights activists and process with my own feminist mindset how to make sense of this.

Where does this fit into my ideology and how I look at the world?

I think I agree with everything you said, but there's still some kind of unsettling doubt, and I don't know where that's coming from.

So I went through a lot of ups and downs, and often the downs were

feeling duped, feeling like

from both sides, you know.

So

feeling duped by by the men's rights activists thinking, oh, they're just

they're good salesmen or they're they're good putting on an act in a show and putting on their best face for the interview.

And when I leave, then they're the misogynists that I believe that they were.

And then the other lows that I had was feeling duped by feminists because I started digging into the gender wage cap more, wanting to find the source of the actual study that they're using to say that women make 77 77 cents on a man's dollar.

And it was a huge letdown to realize that it wasn't the way it was being presented by the mainstream media that women are being discriminated against just based on their gender.

I mean, we had the Equal Pay Act from many decades ago.

It's not legal to pay someone less just based on their gender, but there is a gap in earnings.

And so the more I dug into it, realizing that, okay, women make different choices and motherhood and all that.

And then less, that's not less, that's not less of a choice.

That's not a,

none of these things are bad.

Right.

And

if, you know, feminists were wanting women to earn just as much as men, it's not necessarily a lifestyle that a lot of women would want to live.

Right.

I mean, I like home work-life balance.

And

I like my leisure time.

I like to read.

I like to work out.

I don't want to work 70 hours a week.

And

so I realized that when I started to see all these publications I used to trust and public figures that I used to trust talking about the wage gap and

letting people assume that all women are being paid less than men,

it made me realize

that's abusive to women, to their mind.

Because I've seen teenage girls break down in tears saying that they want to become a doctor, but don't want to do it if they're going to be paid 77 cents to a man's dollar.

They want to become a female filmmaker, but they'll never be able to be as good

as a male director because they're always going to be paid less and not given the same opportunities.

And it's so sad to me because I really do care about women and especially young girls feeling empowered that they can do and be anything they want to do and be.

And so I started to see all these lies and these myths as actually being abusive to women and girls.

And

I wanted to help women by saying, actually,

you can do anything you want to in the world.

It just takes hard work and dealing with rejection, because we all deal with rejection.

But I see so many young women, especially today with fourth-wave feminism,

reveling in this victimhood mentality and letting it define everything that they do and preventing them from succeeding in life because they believe everywhere they go they're going to be a victim.

And

there are real victims in the world.

There are many people that have horrible things happen to them, and it wasn't their fault, and it shouldn't have happened to them.

But your responsibility is how you react, and picking yourself up from that.

And right now, I think we're teaching, feminism is teaching young women to

be angry

and give up

because the world is against them, patriarchy is against them.

And

in the Bay Area, especially, I see this brewing.

I mean, the anger is just palpable.

And

I see so many women who have a lot of potential not living up to it because they believe they were born a victim.

So help me out.

Let's say I'm a feminist.

I'm you five years ago.

To what end?

To what end would these organizations, why would they do that?

That makes no sense.

Why would they victimize women and keep them down?

To what end?

I think

any movement needs a common enemy.

And I think modern feminism has identified men as the enemy.

And when they say they're the movement for gender equality, that if you believe in gender equality, you should be a feminist,

I don't believe they're truly for both the genders

having equal treatment and justice and being treated fairly and with respect,

because they are willing to step on men and their issues in the process and just brush over all of them or blame men as the problem of those issues, which the red pill movie talks about.

The common feminist reaction to hearing about men's issues is that, well, it's the fault of the patriarchy.

And if there are things going on with men, it's men's fault because men have all the power, they have all the privilege.

So it's their responsibility to take care of their own if they really do have issues, which a lot of feminists don't believe men have issues.

But they blame it on men, so therefore it's not our problem to deal with.

So in that way, I don't see feminism as the one and only movement for gender equality.

If you're demonizing one half of the population, saying that they're the fault of their own problems, and this other half, it's not our problem to deal with.

But then when you do try to deal with it, like the Red Pill movie tries to educate people on what are men's issues, a lot of people people can't even list off a laundry list of them.

They can think of a few women's issues off the top of their head because they've been repeated it so much in the media and one of those first issues that most people would say is the wage gap, which I found out was a myth.

So

there's an information gap on what are men's issues and

and I do see silencing taking place and deplatforming and trying to keep this other half of the narrative

just erased from history or current day politics.

So.

That's a frightening statement.

Did you hear what you just said?

Erased from history.

Do you believe that?

Yeah.

Or is that...

That's terrifying, isn't it?

I see it happening all the time because

I see rewriting of history in.

Okay, follow me here.

Present day, 10, 50 years from now, this will be history.

Right now, what's really going on today is being rewritten in the moment by the media, by Wikipedia pages, by, I mean, you don't have to tell me.

I mean, I know.

I mean, the tea party in 2010 was smeared and everything else, and there's some crazy people and everything else like there is in any big movement.

But in the year in pictures in Time magazine, not one photograph in 2010.

How is that possible?

What?

Yeah.

Gone.

Not one photograph.

How do you not put,

when you're doing a year in review, how do you not cover that?

Unless you are writing for future generations and you are erasing in real time.

When you're talking about the average person,

does the average person

have a chance to escape?

They don't have your

ability, and I wouldn't, or your

car crash, if you will.

And I wouldn't wish a car crash on anybody.

How do they get out?

I really don't know because it took me so long with so much research and

the willingness to,

if I do find out I'm wrong, to accept that.

So scary, isn't it?

Because that was the hard part was you could do research, but still you're looking at it with blinders on, wanting to find what supports your current day views.

But if you're going in, really doing research with being willing to have your mind changed, if you find evidence,

facts that contradict your current beliefs.

What does that take to do that?

It's the scariest

thing.

I read Carl Sagan in 95,

I think, and I'm a recovering alcoholic, And I was at the bottom.

I was just starting my recovery.

And I realized I don't believe in God because I know God.

I believe in God because somebody told me.

So I'm really actually an agnostic.

I took all of these things and

I wouldn't accept anything until I knew why I knew.

And the scary thing is at the beginning of that is

you don't know what you're going to find.

You don't know who you're going to be at the end of it.

And you're pretty sure that there are going to be some things that you have to embrace that you don't want to embrace.

It's deep work.

It's looking at the shadow side.

It's,

you know, I liken it to a very messy closet that you've just...

pushed, you know, everything in that you don't want to see out and about because it stresses you out that this mess.

So you just put it in a closet, shut the door, and then say 10 years later, you're moving or something, and you got to go through this stuff.

You don't necessarily want to have people watching you look through your past and look through

all the stuff that you haven't wanted to look at on a daily basis because you can't get by.

You can't get through the day.

That's the problem with.

What I went through in this three and a half year long journey of making the red pill was,

you know, I am a hermit.

I'm an introvert.

I have a very small network of friends and family that I ultimately trust to no end.

But I am a very private person.

And so I was able to do that deep work

and explain to my mom or my boyfriend at the time who became my husband

that I was challenging my views.

And that was really scary because I didn't know if they were going to accept me for changing.

And I think a lot of people don't change because

they don't want to lose their network or their place in life, their job, their family support.

And I think that's why the car crash is necessary.

Yeah.

I had somebody write to me this week

who had a car crash and said,

I understand what you're trying to do and what you're trying to say, but I don't think any of this will work.

until everybody hits their own bottom.

And the bottom is getting so scary

I mean, what is our bottom as a nation?

What's our bottom?

I hope it's not too much farther.

I mean,

I think ultimately what we all want is freedom to be who we are.

Of course, we have to look at you know, the system and how it can work for everyone, although it's imposs I think it's impossible to have a system that works for however many million people are in this country.

And

but we have to continue trying to do our best and thinking of everyone, but we also have to

teach people

to be accountable and responsible for their actions.

And

that, I mean, it's

it is, life is hard work, you know, but but also also to make something of yourself is really hard work.

And

are these new discoveries for you?

I don't know.

I, because I went through such a transformation, I feel like I'm starting with a blank slate again, a blank canvas, and I don't know.

You don't know what's old and what's new, or just what's clarified.

Yeah.

I mean, I grew up very evangelical Christian, and in that way I was kind of in a bubble until I was about 18, 19.

And then right when I was leaving the church I became a radical feminist and spent the next 10 years working on those issues.

What role did the church play in pushing you that direction, if any?

Well,

it was actually because

when I left the church and when I became a feminist, what I was really researching was sexual politics.

And so I think growing up in the church and having that be a taboo topic that you can't talk about and and it's

you know, I was very modest growing up and and uh still am.

That doesn't really change.

But um

but it was very taboo.

But then I saw a lot of um

the my girlfriends not walking what they preached And

I saw a lot of religious girlfriends of mine getting abortions.

And

it made me start to question, you know,

Christ is great.

His followers suck.

Yeah.

And so I was just really, and so also during that time is I moved to L.A.

at 18.

So that really was a shock to the system because,

you know, it was LA and I was a struggling actress.

And so I saw some of the worst parts of the film industry.

And I think that's what made me a feminist.

I think LA, especially for young women, does breed feminists because you do have a chip on your shoulder, and you are treated in a way that's very uncomfortable and not what you want.

How do you,

as a feminist,

how do they reconcile that Hollywood is as left as they come and yet it is a sasspool cesspool of dirtbags.

Oh, gosh.

That's an honest question.

I'm not asking to.

Well, Hollywood is a different world.

It's not like any other industry.

There are no rules, really.

I mean, if you're a filmmaker with money and you want to make a film, you can cast whoever you wish to cast.

And if there is a beautiful woman that you would really like to be with, and she says, I will sleep with you if you give me that role.

That happens all the time.

It really does.

So the exchange of power,

and this is something I learned from the red pill: that gender issues are not apples to apples.

They're apples and oranges.

I mean,

men's power really is in

success in their industry and wealth and

connections that they have or praise and respect that they get.

And say, like a musician, he may not be wealthy, he may be struggling, but he gets the recognition and praise for his talents.

So

women

seek to marry up, which is called hypergamy.

And that usually means into wealth and status.

And men really do value and appreciate women's beauty.

And so what I learned from the red pill and mental health, okay.

Is there anything but nature going on with that?

Men are very visual.

I mean, which star, which is very visual.

Is there anything but nature?

Maybe it's

maybe it's nurture on this that women

look to marry up.

I mean, guys are looking to marry up to.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Is there anything but nature happening there?

I think there could be societal influences.

You know,

I think women also do play up.

their beauty because they know that they can get more attention and,

you know, treat it better.

I mean, I see it all the time with

chivalry still does exist and feminists are not complaining about that.

But I was on a plane to come here and saw pretty much every woman who had an overhead bag.

A man got it down from her, from there for her.

And I thought that was wonderful.

And yes, you could say, well, you know, men are taller, stronger, or more fit, and therefore they should do that.

But there are plenty of guys who aren't as tall or strong as women, but they still go out of their way to open the door and you know do things for them.

I think it's wonderful.

We are different.

Feminists don't

think that's okay and don't say what you just said.

We are different.

We are different.

And that's what I learned from the red pill.

Because I think, in a way, when I was a feminist, I really did hope for an

androgynous society.

How boring

would that be?

But I had a chip on my shoulder.

And I think,

especially young women, they go through this phase because they get unwanted sexual attention.

And when you go through that,

there are a lot of things women are dealing with.

One is the unwanted sexual attention, especially if you're a woman who develops early or

are in an industry that's male-dominated, then you can feel on edge and like you always have a thread around.

And so a lot of women become feminists through that or have horrible experiences that happen to them.

That's why a lot of people become activists, is they have something personal happen to them.

But

another way that I think women, I'm sorry if this is off limits to talk about.

Nothing's off limits.

But

women are reminded, at least of childbearing age, women are reminded on a monthly basis how much they hate being a woman.

And, you know, I think a lot of people.

I think men are reminded on a monthly basis how great it is to be a man.

But,

you know, I think there are women,

whenever they experience something that they know the average guy doesn't have to deal with, immediately it's reaffirming why they're a feminist and why we live in a patriarchy and that women are kept down and men have all the privilege.

But women don't see what men go through, you know, and so learning about men's issues when I found out how many men lose their children in a custody battle, I think any mother would think that's the ultimate

price to pay that is unjust if you lost

extra child.

We do not have a chance.

I'm a divorced man,

and when I got sober,

my wife and I divorced, and I wanted the children,

not a prayer, unless I was willing to go and just just drag her through court and just destroy,

and in her case, lie.

I mean,

it was just given.

No.

No.

Yeah.

Because a mother is a mother.

And feminist groups do lobby to keep it that way, that women have the advantage in custody battles.

And

I come from a divorced family.

My parents separated when I was four, divorced when I was six.

We had 50-50 split custody, and they did it the best way possible.

And there are,

you know, kind of like a blueprint of the best way to have shared custody.

And so they followed all the best ways to do it.

And

it worked out.

I mean, of course, I wish I had parents that stayed together their whole lives.

And I think it's wonderful when people do have parents that stay together forever.

I do think that family, and this is since the Red Pill's release, so I don't talk about, I don't don't talk about this in the Red Pill, but since making the film,

I do feel like I've become a family and marriage advocate.

I recently got married, and

I do think that right now, at least what I'm seeing in the far left circles, is wanting to break down the family, the unit.

And

a lot of research that I've seen and heard from men's rights activists talks about the danger of children raised by single mothers and not having a present father figure.

And,

you know, feminists love to say, look at all the ills in the world.

We have mass shooters and we have, you know, all the prisons are full of men.

And

to get the exact numbers, Warren Farrell gives great data on this, but it's something like 90% of inmates, of male inmates, didn't have a present father.

And

the mass shooters, almost all of them, didn't have a present father.

Serial killers, the same thing.

With serial killers, it's different, though.

It's not just not having a present father, but having an abusive mother.

And so,

you know, when feminists say that women don't have any power, who's raising up the next generation?

Who's around kids the most?

It is women.

And when women abuse that power,

there are real consequences for that by the children who grow up with abusive teachers or nuns or mothers, babysitters.

So

we're all in this together.

Is what I'm saying is that we all have to look at our role and what we

provide to society and make sure we're doing our best.

I don't think I've ever really shared all of this before.

I do

a lot of work for

women's shelters because

of my sisters.

And

I talk about growing up in an abusive family.

But it wasn't my dad.

My dad was an abused man.

man.

And my mother,

not to me,

somehow I escaped this, but to my sisters,

she grew up in the,

you know, she came to her

prime and 20s in the 1960s and early 70s.

And it was a confusing time.

And she was at home and that wasn't really her.

And it was just

and I think she took it out on my sisters

because she saw in them what she couldn't be.

And

she took it out on my father.

I don't know why.

But people don't ever think of that.

You know, and it's shameful.

It's shameful for a man

to be abused by a woman somehow or another.

And they're weak and they're pathetic.

And they're not.

not.

My father was abused by his father, and his father by his father.

And my father said, I'm going to break the chain.

And he did.

He never abused us.

Instead, he became his mother.

And he married an abuser.

And

I don't understand why

abuse is.

my sisters are the greatest people I've ever met

and

they're in their 50s and 60s now and they are still trying to find their value they're still trying to convince themselves that they're they're okay they're good they're whole they're complete it's awful It's awful what happens to people

But my father

was the same way.

On his deathbed, I know he was thinking the same things.

I was the only one in the family he would tell this to.

Why can't we just lay our swords down and just see the pain of this, no matter who it is, and just

say,

this has to stop.

This has to stop.

And even have compassion, to some degree on the abusers to say,

what is it inside of you that's doing this?

How are you missing that?

These are your children.

This is your husband.

This is your wife.

What happened?

What's broken?

We can't have that conversation.

I've really discovered

in the last 10 years,

I don't want to live in a world full of conservatives.

And I don't want to live in a world full of liberals.

I want to live with people.

And if all of the liberals, and generally speaking, the liberals are the creative, the art, the beauty of the world, and the conservatives are the bean counters,

We need each other.

We have to have each other.

Just like men and women, we need each other.

And we are different.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

The Me Too movement.

There's no one that could feel as a man more strongly about that because of where I come from.

But why does it have to be a judge, jury, and executioner as a mob?

How do we change this?

We need all the information,

and

if people can see it all,

then we'll see how we can find common ground.

That we can't tip the scales so far

that

one group is being uplifted, the other is silenced.

Women who do abuse

feel justified in abusing because they've been told

that the world is against them.

They've felt abused their whole life.

So that's what keeps the cycle of abuse going.

People, don't people feel

when you lash out,

it's because you feel invisible.

You feel like nobody's listening to you.

You feel like it's just you all alone.

And they've pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed.

How is

the society where

you're either on the train or you're not on both sides that is saying, shut up.

You're wrong.

You're worthless.

I don't need to actually listen to you.

I'm just going to call you horrible names.

Everybody feeling, especially with tech the way it's coming.

I don't even know as a human being if I'm going to be worth anything in 10 years.

We're losing value to each other.

We're losing value to the system.

We're just, we, people feel like they're invisible, and it's just, we're just

grist for the mill.

I think

I'm going to try out a new thought here.

I never,

let's see where this goes.

But

there's been studies that have been done that

our max of how many people we can really have in our life is about a hundred.

A hundred people that you can really know as your family, your friends, your loved ones, but also acquaintances and business,

you know, colleagues.

So it's about 100 people.

That was about the size of my wedding.

So that's, you know, that's, those are the people I feel like I really know and they know me.

Anything over a hundred at a wedding, you don't know who they are.

They were invited by somebody else of the family.

Yeah.

So now we have the internet, the digital age.

And

I probably interact with more people

online, or they hear from me, or I hear from them online, than people that came to my wedding, that are my hundred closest people in my life.

But I have all this out here on the internet, that I'm videos I'm watching, and news feeds, and everything.

I think maybe what's happening is the only way to keep track of those

thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that are talking into your ears throughout the day

is to label them.

You have to compartmentalize groups in order to deal with all this chatter that's going online.

So

I see this often in comment forums where someone may write one or two sentences and then the next comment is saying, oh, so you're a communist or oh, so you're whatever.

We're wanting to compartmentalize all these people.

And I think

where we're losing the humanity right now, at least.

You know, AI maybe later.

But right now,

I think we're

losing this human interaction and

the camaraderie that we're all in this together, that we assuming the best in each other before

if you're ever proved otherwise.

So I think the labeling and throwing out epithets at people to

humanize or dehumanize them.

I mean, I've been called horrible things, which none of them are true.

I don't even want to repeat them because I want it to just,

but

I, you know, it's the tribalism,

identifying your enemy and then strengthening your group if you have a common enemy.

And

I don't see that as

the place we should move towards.

So

I think that people

who come from my point of view,

we believe in the Constitution.

We believe in the Bill of Rights.

We believe the Bill of Rights is inspired.

It just hasn't been used.

You know, everything after the first 10

really is,

really, I have to spell this out for you?

Yes, blacks can vote and they're people too.

Really, I have to spell this out to you?

Yes, women are people and they can vote too.

It's every the first 10, they have it.

Everything else is a reiteration of, good God, you're that stupid, I have to say it again, with the exception of a couple of things.

People see

Marxist

feminists, if you're a postmodern kind of feminist,

they see people who are hiding, saying one thing and doing another.

And I mean saying, no, no, no, I'm not a radical when they are a radical.

And

because we have to put everybody in buckets,

we don't know who's who.

It's kind of like the difference between Islam and an Islamist.

I have no problem with Islam.

An Islamist?

I do.

Because they want the state to impose Sharia law and live to the doctrines.

Well, you can't live here in this country.

You can't because the law of the land is the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Islam?

Totally fine.

How do you...

How

is someone,

I hate this term, on my side, somebody who's coming to it from a...

I think the country is really screwed up.

And I think the country was screwed up under George W.

Bush and Bill Clinton and George H.W.

Bush.

And that's the the last time I was really aware.

I was a kid under Ronald Reagan.

But it's been screwed up for a long, long time.

I want transparency.

I want justice.

I want equal justice.

And yet there are these people who want to destroy that.

Whether you're a Nazi or a postmodernist Marxist.

how do we separate from each other?

How do we know who's who?

And how do we,

should we be afraid of

people who are either in hiding and wearing the cloak of some charitable, some wonderful thing,

or

just out and out open saying, yeah, I want to.

Can we get along with those people?

Hmm.

Oh, man.

That's a good question.

Yeah.

I mean, okay.

I think there are

people with ideas that are dangerous in this country.

I think those

radicalists are a minority.

For the most part, our country.

Do you want to put a number on that?

I think I will tell you after.

You go.

You go first.

And I would say on both sides.

Look at it as a football field, 100 yards.

close to the end zone on each side?

So

Nazis on one side and the radical, like one communism kind of far left.

For this,

yes.

That's not the American system, that's the European system.

But for this, yes.

Go ahead.

Okay.

I'd say it's less than

2%.

Wow.

On either side.

Yeah, 2%, 2%.

Wow.

I thought I was being generous saying 10% on each side.

I think it's less on the right.

I put Nazis, because they're National Socialists over into a totalitarian kind of realm.

And I don't put all Democrats on that side either.

But

just to be

sure,

I'm like, okay, 10%.

There might be a little more, a little less here and there.

2%?

Then why do do we feel they're everywhere?

Because they get the most coverage.

I mean, and that's why I put it at 2%, because there are so many people who are apolitical that do not engage in anything that we've been talking about.

How can 2% of the population silence

what some people would say common sense ideas or traditional ideas?

And I'm not talking about gay marriage.

I'm just saying, hey, the country's not that bad.

They have the time.

They have the will.

They have the time.

I mean, most people, they just want to have families.

They want to have vacations.

They want to go to soccer games.

They don't,

they're not participating in Antifa.

But I am in the Bay Area, and there are a lot of people who are engaged with Antifa, and including college professors.

So I know it's

there is a lot of that, but I think it's in the major cities, it's on the university campuses, and they get a lot of press.

What's coming our way because

of the universities?

It's different than when you went to school.

Well, here's the thing.

My husband and I both didn't go to college.

Oh my gosh, you're one of the uneducated masses.

Oh my gosh.

I thought that only happened on the right.

And I'm so glad I didn't go to college.

I mean, the reason I made that choice was because I wanted to go in the film industry and you don't need a degree to get in there.

But

what's happening on the campus is, I mean,

my area of expertise is in gender politics, so that's what I can really speak on.

But

second wave feminism in the late 60s and early 70s did monopolize the gender discussion in universities and have continued since

and

that hasn't changed and now if you do want to present alternate alternate ideas on gender politics and I mean especially the last like two, three years, gender theory has really

become just mind-boggling.

I mean, there's something like 74 genders now.

No, 182, I guess.

182 now.

Okay.

I got to have like a tally of the ball.

That's the highest.

I mean, that's if you're, you know, that's if you're really pushing it.

But

I mean, and the

one of the many reasons I left feminism was the blatant hypocrisy,

the very gendered dialogue when talking about who are victims and perpetrators.

And

such as in the Me Too movement.

You know, if it's just people who are victims who are sharing their story and people are feeling compassion for them or wanting to find justice for what happened to them,

I think the Me Too movement is great if it inspired alleged victims to go to law enforcement.

Where I have issue is going to social media and basically taking down someone's reputation with allegations before there's ever due process.

But also the dialogue around the Me Too movement is overtly gendered.

It's women are the silence breakers.

Time magazine said that the silence breakers of the Me Too movement was the people of the year in 2017.

But it's women are finally standing up against men.

But isn't that the.

I mean, we just talked about this kind of with abuse, but isn't that

generally the case?

As far as sexual harassment harassment and assault, well, here's where it gets interesting.

Because

the research around gender is mostly advocacy studies.

They're wanting to do the research to prove their point of what they want to say.

That's true.

Yeah.

I mean, they're funded by feminist organizations for the most part.

So

the advocacy research could say that X amount of women are sexually harassed in the workplace.

Where they get that in their surveys is with creative wording, saying, Have you ever felt uncomfortable by a male colleague?

I mean, you can be uncomfortable because he- That's why there's a rape epidemic on campuses.

Yeah.

You look at the way that's worded and it's like, I think I've been raped three times on the way to work today.

I mean, it's very broad now.

Yeah.

And an unwanted sexual advance can just be a guy saying, hey, do you want to get dinner this weekend?

I mean, you know, so the dating game, how it's always been, is that men approach women and basically make the offer, yes or no, would you like to see where this could go?

And the woman is the one that decides, which I today now think that's a very privileged position to be in as the decider of whereas men have to ask.

Yeah, have the risk.

So that's one of the things that I tell you something.

Remember, you said once a month you're reminded.

Yeah.

Okay.

Every time a guy has to go out and ask, her, we're reminded how much we hate being a man.

Because it's like, I'm going to get rejected.

Because it's just odds.

I'm going to, I'm going to ask 10 and maybe one will say, yeah, I'll go have dinner with you.

And the rest are going to look at you like, are you?

I mean, look at yourself.

Really?

Yeah.

You know,

it's horrible.

Yeah.

And now I understand it because I've been trying to understand it.

But naturally, a woman wouldn't understand the struggle that is.

So,

you know, women,

because of how the dating game is played,

women are more at risk to have, you know, some kind of unwanted advance.

Yeah.

And men are more likely to be accused of being, you know, creepy or crossing the line or something because they are the ones to approach.

So, you know, the

dialogue in these surveys is very vague that can lead to more women saying that they

have been harassed or assaulted or something like that.

So in 2012,

the CDC

changed their surveys to include, so it was their sexual violence survey.

They changed the wording of the survey to include made to penetrate

as

as rape, made to penetrate, whereas before they only had,

has someone forcibly penetrated you, which can only be done to a woman.

So made to penetrate was added.

Not necessarily, but right.

I was thinking that too, that you could also be a man who's forcibly penetrated.

But

so when they added made to penetrate to the survey,

in that year, 2012, for that 12-month period, 1.4 million women had reported that they'd been raped, 1.7 million men had reported they'd been raped because of made to penetrate.

So

this is where feminism wasn't working to include gender-neutral dialogue and really figuring out, you know, what is going on for people in this country and who is being assaulted or abused.

Because you need to think about what men can go through that is different than what a woman could go through.

You know, I learned about so many different men's issues that I do now consider rights issues, they're men's rights issues, but they were never defined as gender rights under feminism because it didn't affect women, such as

do you think it's a right to know you're a parent?

Only men

would have the option of not knowing they're a parent because women, you know, you birth the baby, you know you're a parent.

But there are many men who never know that they have a child out there, they have progeny out there.

You know, the lack of reproductive rights for men is not addressed under feminism.

And, you know, I think that's a shame because I think there are so many men that really do care about their children.

And

there have been women who adopted, they were unmarried.

mother and father unmarried and the woman had the baby adopted the baby away when the father wanted to be a parent and was willing to have the child just himself to raise, and she adopted the child away.

And we show this in the Red Pill movie.

Many of those stories, and

I never learned about that when I was for 10 years a radical feminist.

Never learned about these issues.

So,

you know, I just think the major problem right now is we're giving a microphone to one side of

what's going on for the genders.

And

I still care about women's issues and empowering young girls, and I still do think that there are women's issues that need to be fought for.

But I know a lot of organizations with a lot of funding are doing that work.

And so I'm just trying to

add to the discussion that we need to look at all people.

I've seen you

on TV in Australia and everywhere else.

And I've seen how you're treated now.

And

I remember when I was in South Africa, I did an interview and they hated my guts.

And I remember, I mean, it was just, it was like hit in the face.

And I was like,

how do you,

I'm not even in your country.

I'm on the other side of the planet.

How do you hate me this much?

And it was almost like there was a, you know,

an alert that went out that said, hey, this is what's happening.

I see you in these interviews.

And

I saw one where the guy, the woman or the guy said, well, did you ask this?

Yeah, it's in the movie.

Yeah, but did they say this?

Yeah, it's in the movie.

But did you show this?

Yeah, it's in the movie.

And yet they called that movie the most bigoted movie, I think, of all time or something like that.

They just smeared it.

And you,

without any knowledge,

is there any doubt in your mind if this was a reverse?

If you were

somebody who was a conservative filmmaker

and you came and decided you were a feminist, I haven't heard you really bash feminism or, you know, you've said there's these problems, but you're not like vitriolic about it.

Any doubt that you would be on the Today show and everything else and you'd be very famous today as opposed to sitting.

sitting here with a fat old guy?

If I made a If it was exactly the reverse.

If you started out conservative and now you were saying, I'm not a conservative, I'm a feminist.

I mean, I did see an article come out shortly after the red pill started getting a lot of positive audience reviews and won awards and things like that.

There was an article that came out saying,

I was a men's rights activist and now I'm a feminist and here's why.

And it was, of course, published by anonymous, like an anonymous person.

They didn't share their name or identity.

And

it was just so hard.

I mean, I went in reading it thinking, all right, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe they really did go through this transformation.

But I, now knowing everything I know about when I was a feminist and learning about men's issues, I'd find it hard to believe you would go from a men's rights activist to a feminist.

But I was willing to, you know, read it and consider.

And it was just,

it was almost like they took my story and just reversed genders.

And but it didn't even accurately apply to feminism because the men's movement is not the opposite of feminism.

It's, I mean, they're very different.

So, yeah, if I were a conservative saying I've now become a liberal.

No, not a liberal, a feminist.

Oh, a feminist.

If If you were a liberal feminist, if you were,

you wouldn't, would you be,

you know how they treat somebody now as a feminist that says, wait a minute, wait a minute, I don't think that this is all bad over here.

Do you think, do you see the plight of conservatives at all in a different light with the media?

I do think that they're the ones

most identifiably being silenced right now.

Do you see a way of opening that?

Do you see a way of piercing that to where we can have dialogue on a mass scale?

I think, oh gosh, I don't.

I'm going to try out this thought, but I don't know if it really holds up.

Okay.

First one did.

I think part of the reason why

people on the left don't want to debate conservatives

is it's when they bring up religion and their beliefs because that's kind of the

there's not many places you can go from there.

If you just believe that and that's your basis for how you vote on everything, then you've lost the liberal atheist and they're like, well, where can we go from here?

But I think if conservatives only kept their argument to

science-based kind of arguments and left their faith out entirely if they could,

then maybe we could have debates on a stage that go somewhere and that have progress.

Do you think that could happen?

I'm not sure it has happened.

I'm not sure it should.

In this way,

I can't prove God, and I can't prove my relationship with God at all.

And I don't,

you know, a good friend of mine is Pendulat.

I have several.

Dave Rubin, good friend of mine.

I have several friends who are atheists.

That's never a problem.

It's never a problem.

It's really why I'm a libertarian and a constitutionalist.

I can live next door to you.

I can live next door to anyone and happily and be great neighbors if they're not trying to tell me how to live my life and I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life.

When it comes to God,

I don't expect you to believe me, but if I get to a place to where I say, well, it's because I feel this way about God,

then you have to say, I can understand that there are some things that I feel too or I think too, that I can't really just lock it down into something.

So I'll give you that and you give me mine.

And I'm not going to, we're not going to argue about God.

You know what I mean?

But I don't think I should, I don't think I should have to.

For me,

propels me.

But that's not the same with my atheist friends.

And I don't know how they do it, and they don't know how I do it.

It doesn't matter.

It does.

It works.

So why do we have to

well,

so I think there are many conservatives who

You know, when you dig to the bottom of why do they have these political beliefs, it would probably come down to their faith.

And I think for liberals, if you dig down to the bottom of their beliefs, it probably would look like something like Marxism.

So a conservative would want to analyze that and be like, well, why do you believe that men are of women and have been through all throughout history and whites over blacks and, you know, all this?

Let's...

dig into that and see if that holds water and if that's legitimate or maybe I can challenge you on your foundation of all of your beliefs by convincing you that Marxism is not accurate.

So I think that's where liberals,

you know, they don't get the get-out-of-jail-free card by saying it's a faith.

They wouldn't even call it a faith.

They don't think of it as a religion, although maybe you could say that it's very

religion.

Sometimes it is.

Let me ask you this.

The only place I would go to on God, and I would just ask you, and I don't know what it is for others,

the only thing where God plays a role, but I could explain why it's important,

and if it's not God for you, you have to find something else, but that our rights come from God.

That removes those rights from the table.

I can never silence you because I don't create them.

I don't rule over them.

I can't touch them.

Neither can you.

So if you want to say, you know, rights come from, I don't know, the trees or whatever it comes from, doesn't matter.

But once man is online with those rights, then man can say, you know what,

for the best reasons here, we got to all come together.

I have to silence those people.

Then it all starts to fall apart.

We have to get man out of the rights business.

And

that's what our founders kind of, they struggled with.

Okay, so we're,

who's printing up rights?

And if we understand that that right is really broad,

you know, it's not.

My daughter was when she was at Fordham.

She came to me and she said, Dad, why are you so anti-gay marriage?

And I'm like, What are you talking about?

I don't even talk about that except in a positive way.

I'm for gay marriage.

What are you talking about?

And, but she had been

really so worked at college.

And I said, Listen,

here's my stance.

I have no right to tell you who to marry and who not to marry.

You have no right to tell me who to marry and who not to marry.

There are complications that will come from this that we should at least talk about and think about.

But my right to get into your life, I have none.

Your right to get into my faith, you have none.

As long as we're not telling each other what we have to do, why is the government even involved?

Why is the government involved?

You know that

marriage, the marriage license

was started to make sure that the races stayed separate.

Oh my gosh, really?

Yeah.

Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, they didn't have marriage license.

You want to get married?

Go find somebody, get married, do it.

I don't care.

Had nothing to do with the state.

Marriage license came in because we have to make sure that we keep the races pure.

Then the blood test came in during eugenics

to make sure that we don't have undesirables in the line.

This is craziness.

Why do we hold these things up?

Like they're sacred.

They were started for really bad reasons.

Control.

I have wondered leading up to this meeting

because I understand you're a libertarian.

Is that right?

so

I guess I would be th the opposite, because I think I do fall more into social,

yeah, wanting social services and and programs to help the disadvantaged.

Yeah, yeah, everybody thinks it's left and right.

It's not.

It's totalitarianism.

I don't care if it's religious totalitarianism, communism, you know, Iran, China, it doesn't matter.

Complete control, okay,

in the state's hands.

This side is anarchy.

This was the American idea.

Anarchy and complete control.

The king was over here.

So they said, how do we develop where we give never before done the people the power?

And so reading not Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, which,

good God, people who read Wealth of Nations, that's where capitalism really comes from.

You have, it's a two-volume book.

You have to read volume one, which is moral sentiments.

Moral sentiment says, if you're going to do capitalism, you better have

yourself as a society together because the invisible hand of the market will create beauty or ugliness and poison.

But it will be up to you.

as the individual because you are the market.

You want porn, you want rape, movies, you want whatever it is.

Oh, it will produce it for you because of who you are.

So volume one is make sure you know who you are when you start capitalism.

Second is wealth of nations.

How do nations become prosperous?

So we took that idea and said, Articles of Confederation.

We just want it far enough from anarchy.

Well, it wasn't far enough away.

So we had to try it again.

1789, we say, forget, George Washington was not our first president.

There was another president before.

It's just a different country.

We started again.

And this time we put the Constitution in and we brought it a little farther back from anarchy.

We've slowly been drifting this direction.

And that's why

nobody's talking about,

it's amazing to me.

Barack Obama scared the living bat crap out of half of the country, okay?

Because we saw a guy who, he was a Marxist.

He was a Marxist.

Now, I couldn't say that before because that was racist.

But now that everybody's saying I'm a socialist Marxist, now apparently it's okay.

But that's what we felt.

You couldn't be in Jeremiah Wright's church.

You couldn't be, you couldn't be in and

believe in

It's a social justice term out of South America,

collective salvation.

I can't remember what it's called.

You couldn't believe in that and believe in the American system.

You just can't.

Okay.

So we were scared to death.

Okay.

That's not a good feeling.

So what happens?

We then

run and elect a guy who scares the other half of the country to death and many of us to death.

Okay?

This, the point that we should take from this

is

we shouldn't have been frightened.

You shouldn't be frightened.

They have too much power because no president should be able to make us this frightened.

Do it in your own town.

I have no problem.

San Francisco, I think it's the most beautiful town in America.

It is the most beautiful city in America.

Barnan, I think it's bad crap, crazy.

But you should have the right to do that.

That's your town.

Do it.

The state, I never argued against universal health care with Romney up in Massachusetts.

We're supposed to be little laboratories, 50 little laboratories.

If it works, you don't think Texans are going to do it?

Of course they will.

Just see what works.

And if it works for a group of people, that's fine for them to do over there.

Why can't we leave each other alone?

Not steal from each other, not yell at each other.

Why can't we just leave each other alone?

With respect.

Does this sound like rantings of a madman?

No, no.

Well,

I was kind of hoping we wouldn't go here, but I want to ask because

it does sound like you're for live and let live

and

don't

tell me what to do and don't regulate everything and let the market work itself out.

And capitalism does let people,

based on your work ethics, strive to be whatever you want to be.

And

real capitalism.

We haven't been doing capitalism.

We're crony capitalism now and have been for a long time.

Okay.

So

I guess the

left-minded part of me is wondering,

what about abortion?

Abortion is, I think, the easiest thing to answer.

And it is

amazing to me that we don't have this conversation.

Is that a baby?

If you believe that is a baby, that a fetus is a baby,

then I have to stand for the right to not execute the most innocent.

I am also against the death penalty.

So

that is that child.

That's that girl's choice being taken away.

Okay, the little girl or the little boy.

If you don't believe it's a baby, we should talk about science, but

you don't have a right.

I don't have a right to kill someone.

Now, if you don't, if you honestly don't believe that's a baby,

then

we're at a place to where, okay, well, we have to figure our way around that.

How do we deal with that?

Some of us,

it's

the left doesn't understand.

They get

really violent.

And I want you to know,

I think the worst thing people do is,

you know, hold up signs

and protest the women that are going in.

They're traumatized enough.

So I don't agree with that.

But if you really truly believed

that there was a country that was

doing a Holocaust

of 50 million children,

wouldn't you be a horrible human being if you didn't say something, if you didn't stand up, if you really believed that?

I think people who are pro-life are amazing that they haven't gotten violent.

Because I have to tell you, if I were in Germany and I knew about that and we had guns,

I'd be the first one to go, let's go shut those damn ovens down.

But we don't, because

we're Americans and we respect each other.

I think where

the left and

feminist women who stand with Planned Parenthood stand is

that

the woman, the mothers, the woman,

her rights should supersede whatever the potential is of the fetus.

Till when?

Well, and that's where, you know, ever since Roe v.

Way, that's what's been fought is

what

length of the term is it okay before it's not okay.

You know Peter Singer.

Peter Singer is the chair of ethics at Princeton.

Brilliant guy.

Brilliant guy.

I'm surprised you don't know who he is.

He has come out and said

that

we should be able to abort a child up to two years after birth.

I mean, that's as extreme as you get.

He later apologized and said,

I shouldn't have put a time limit on it.

Because it is only when a child realizes that there is a tomorrow that they become a person.

What?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Sheriff Ethics.

Look him up.

So,

I mean, I don't think anybody believes that.

And I don't even know if he is doing more than just theory.

You know what I mean?

But partial birth abortion, all of that stuff.

The line just keeps getting changed.

It's going the opposite direction because,

you know, it was when the child is viable.

Well, medicine is making the child viable earlier and earlier.

So are they becoming children earlier and earlier, or are we just seeing it differently?

I'm not trying to win here.

I'd love to hear your answer.

And I've been thinking a lot about this issue the last few years now that I

try to read and understand both sides and all sides.

Obviously,

anything that's a political topic, it's because there is a gray area.

You know, if if there's something that all people agree on which is that you know child abuse is wrong then it's not a political issue where one side is standing up for it and against it um but anything that's a political issue means that there's a gray area and that's why people take sides so

i mean i did some research into baby farming which was in the uk and england have you heard of i mean it's really it's been another thing that's been i think uh erased from history

What is baby farming?

Baby farming was back when abortion was illegal, and I think it was the 1700s in England,

women who and it was also frowned upon to be unmarried and pregnant.

So women would go on extended vacation for nine months and visit like a nursing home kind of thing, where these what they were called nurses

would take the newborns and then care for them for the rest of their childhood until adulthood.

So the mothers would pay

a fee and then leave and never have any contact again.

So some women who were running these nursing homes started to

abuse the children, but to the extent of actually murdering the children,

they realized that it would be a financial incentive to you'd have more space in the house if you

so I mean just horrible stories of strangulation and poison.

And we have those in this country with, you know, when we used to have institutions where people were put away and

horrible.

So, and I only stumbled across this story because I was looking into the worst serial killers of all time when I was thinking about, you know, aren't men all the worst people in the world?

And I came across Amelia Dyer,

who killed over 300 children.

And she was one of the nurses running a baby farm.

So they buried the infant corpses all throughout London and different small towns.

And

they only discovered it when they found, retrieved Bali's bones, but they also found fridges that she had with parts.

I mean, it was just horrible.

So she was given the death penalty.

But

so when I learn about that, I'm thinking, I don't think that would happen today, that we'd have that kind of situation if women were

having children unwanted.

But I do wonder what would happen for all those women who find that they're pregnant and don't want the child.

Would they be harming themselves?

Would we go back to the coat hanger days?

So,

because I think this is a

great discussion, and I'd love to continue to get your opinion on.

A, those kind of places do exist still all over the world.

I mean, you know, go to Russia.

Go to Haiti.

I mean, we rescue children.

Part of my charitable arm, we rescue children out of the sex slave industry.

And there are bogus,

you know, orphanages that are just,

the people are pimps.

So it's horrible.

You know, you did say one thing that there were body parts in fridges.

We do have that today, too, and that's Planned Parenthood selling body parts, which is

horrific.

Yeah.

However, if you look at the stats that show the number, I have an adopted son.

The number of people that want children

is off the charts.

And we don't even...

For instance,

one thing I'm inconsistent on,

and it bothers me, in the reverse that probably would bother you.

It really bothers me.

I believe these are children.

Um,

uh, but in rape and incest, I could not look at my daughter if that was going to destroy her, and she has to relive that rape over and over again.

I couldn't do it to my own daughter, so how could I possibly say that for somebody else?

And that bothers me because I'm in conflict.

I do believe that's a child.

Which one?

And so it's, you know, I've come to this place and it's uncomfortable and hypocritical, but I've come to this place where I have to choose the mother because of the scarring that she took on at no choice of her own.

Okay.

And that...

Bothers me, but we're now starting to celebrate abortion.

Used Used to be rare, safe, legal.

And for a reason.

I mean, have you ever read Victor Hugo's Les Miserables?

No, I haven't.

Okay.

Unless you really want to be really depressed and you have time to read 1,200 pages, don't.

But in summary,

everybody in it is miserable.

And one of the characters is Fontine.

And she, it's this, this beautiful section where she falls in love with this boy.

They think that she thinks they're going to be together forever, but he's not really interested in her.

And she gets pregnant.

He goes away.

She hasn't told him yet.

He says, I'm coming back.

He never comes back.

Now, because it's France,

now she's with a child.

So she's immediately a whore.

She's immediately all of these horrible things.

And she has to give the child to somebody else who will care while she works to take care of the child.

Okay.

There's a lot more to the story, but that's in a a nutshell.

We know in this country that there have been people who

would do horrible things to their own children,

even to, you know, even the nicest of them

just,

I disown you because you are pregnant.

They had to go away on a baby farm.

That's not a stigma anymore.

It's just not a stigma anymore.

So we're fighting for, we're fighting against some things that society has changed.

It's not that way anymore.

Yeah.

In thinking about where do we go from here,

right now

I

feel like

we need to

keep abortion illegal, but do our best to limit and prevent that situation from happening.

And I do think

some factors that are affecting the abortions that do happen are, and I'm going to sound so traditional and straight laced here, but I do think promiscuity is,

you know, it really has gone through the roof.

Yeah, unchecked and without borders.

And

so, you know,

that increases risk.

Also, women getting married later in life.

So basically having more years that they are single and dating

and therefore then because I think once you're you're with the person that you want to be with for the rest of your life

you wouldn't immediately jump to an abortion if it was unplanned.

You're

if you did want children in your life then you would think, okay, well it's just sooner than later now.

But but there are women who are married and don't want the fifth child and then they go have an abortion.

So I know that happens a lot too.

So I mean women's role in society has completely changed since the 50s and then because of second wave feminism in the 60s and questioning gender roles and mothers.

And, you know, so now we're trying to navigate how do we deal with basically increasing half...

half of the population into the workforce and also into colleges.

And so we are seeing, you know, men feeling like they don't have anything to contribute to a woman's life anymore.

And we often hear women say, I don't need a man, and say that is a proud thing.

Because if they are able to provide for themselves and can obviously have a child without a man in the picture,

you know, there are a lot of men that are lost in failure to launch.

And so gender relations are having issues in that area.

But with women and

sex, I think, you know, this is a part of our religious history that I feel like was

going like on the right track without knowing necessarily the benefits for society from a scientific kind of standpoint.

So

back when I went to a Christian school in my freshman year of school, and we were told to

like have your knees together like you had a penny in between them.

And I mean, we had a lot of different weird roles about not walking with, swaying your hips too much and always be a Bible with Bible's width apart from any man.

And

so I think that that actually did a lot of good for my upbringing was that

modest kind of way in life and relationships.

And so I did wait a long time until I

started having sexual relationships.

And thank goodness, because if I

I've never had an abortion, I'm very glad I've never had to make that decision.

And I think if I did have an unplanned pregnancy when I was in my early 20s, I probably would have had an abortion not easily.

But I'm now today so glad I never had to go through that.

And I think I would have regretted it if I went through it, if I had an abortion.

But I think, you know, when talking about should we overturn Roe v.

Wade or

defund Planned Parenthood and all these issues, I think we also need to talk about the before and the after.

So preventing women from getting into that position with sexual education and

I mean modesty obviously is such a crazy thing.

I mean the things that women are wearing these days, it's and then get upset if they're looked at inappropriately.

I mean the women are looking at them because it's all hanging out.

So it's just it's very confusing and conflicting, all the mixed messages.

But

so preventing unplanned pregnancy, but then also if we did make abortion illegal and we had 30 million of those, or however many 60 million children that were aborted since Roe v.

Wade,

if those 60 million children did survive and they were in our country,

what would that look like?

And how would we provide for them, especially if they had

no parents?

I mean, if they were given into the adoption system.

So I do understand that there are a lot of loving and willing couples who are seeking children to adopt.

There's also also partly from infertility rates, skyrocketing right now for men and women.

And so where do we go from here?

I've done some research into what technology is being developed, and I know that artificial wombs could be a reality in the close future.

Right now they have artificial wombs that are that were able to take lambs that were premature and get them to gestation.

And they're expecting to be able to do this for human babies soon, for preemie babies to fully develop and maybe eventually have an artificial womb for nine months.

And if that's the case, I do think abortion would be outlawed, and maybe rightfully so, because now the mother that wasn't planning to get pregnant, now she has a fertilized egg in her.

If we do believe it's a baby with potential to be a human, then, or a fetus with potential to be a human, then

it isn't any harm to her to have to be pregnant for nine months if they could just remove it from her womb and put it in an artificial womb.

And there's a lot of different things that they're developing too.

With, I mean, it gets really scary when you start looking into it with genetic engineering and all that.

How old are you again?

I'm 32.

You know how fortunate you are?

Why?

When I was 32, I didn't have to be brave, except for my own life.

You're a very brave person.

And it's really, it's an honor to talk to you.

I've enjoyed it.

I hope you have.

I have.

I really have.

Thank you for inviting me on.

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.