'No Closer To The Truth' - 4/10/18

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Truth

Glenn Beck

When there is no trust, when there is

When there is no truth

this is the kind of chaos that we get

I don't I don't even know what to say today.

I feel like I live in a banana republic

and not the place that has the clothing.

I feel like I live in a place that I don't know which rules apply anymore.

Attorney-client privilege just gone?

Okay.

It's a pretty serious thing.

It is constitutional.

The FBI does seem to be following the law,

but they're using extraordinary means.

Is this the act of a banana republic?

What is going on?

You damn well better have something big if you are going to arrest, or I'm sorry, invade

and raid.

The president of the United States, his attorney.

They not only took down the office, the FBI raided his home in New York City, a hotel room where he has been staying.

This is the president's personal lawyer.

Now, what is he in trouble for?

Potential bank and wire fraud and campaign finance violations.

We'll get into how this can happen.

How all of a sudden everything that we thought you had with attorney client privileges is on the ropes.

We'll get into that here in a second but special counsel robert muller apparently found evidence of a potential crime but he determined that it had nothing to do with russia based on the evidence he sent a referral to the federal prosecutors in new york now they could pursue it or not

those people are all connected to trump Those are the people that the judge was appointed by Trump and the investigators in New New York were individually interviewed by Trump.

But I don't know what the truth is.

Do you?

The raid was inside a lawyer's office.

The Justice Department had to sign off on it.

That means Attorney General Rod Rosenstein gave the approval.

Another Trump guy.

The FBI seized Cohen's computer, his phone, his business records, his tax documents, all of his emails about his personal finances and his clients, then sees documents reportedly including communications between

Cohen and President Trump.

Boy,

this is a historic movement.

This is something that changes everything.

How are they going to tiptoe around it?

Well, it's very clear how they're supposed to.

There are clean investigators and dirty investigators, and we'll discuss that in a minute.

Let's just say

this has not happened to the president before.

This move by the Justice Department is extraordinarily rare,

and it is going to tear this country apart unless they have rock-solid evidence.

Meanwhile, the media is ecstatic about the seizure of records related to Cohen's 2016 payment of $130,000 to an adult film star.

Can you imagine if they would have done this to Bill Clinton?

Can you imagine what the media would have said?

Cohen denies the payment, violated campaign finance laws.

Can you imagine?

Oh, I don't have to imagine.

Do you remember what the press said when

people were speculating that there was real evidence about Clinton's getting a payoff to China?

Do you remember when Al Gore made that big donation to China and they made a big donation back to him?

Imagine if they would have raided their personal attorneys.

Let's just all try to be consistent here.

Now, President Trump has denied the affair with Daniel, denies that he even knew about Cohen's payment to her,

but I don't think Trump is the target.

Michael Cohen is.

Does this

hurt Donald Trump?

I don't think so, other than getting yet another bad guy away from him.

But I don't think there's gonna I don't think they have evidence on Trump.

Anything that could hurt him.

I don't know.

But this is war now.

Michael Cohen's lawyer, Stephen Ryan, called the raid completely inappropriate and unnecessary.

Now, of course, lawyers are paid to say stuff like that, especially if you're a lawyer for a lawyer.

Ryan also said Cohen has fully cooperated and turned over thousands of non-privileged documents to congressional investigators already.

So, where do we stand today?

No closer to the truth than we were yesterday.

In fact, we may be a few steps back.

In this elusive, never-ending investigation?

No one is sure.

The media is sure.

Oh, they're utterly convinced that Donald Trump has to go.

The Democrats are utterly convinced.

There was a headline on CNN this morning as I turned on the TV.

The CNN headline was, is it too early for the Democrats to start discussing impeachment?

Yeah, I think the answer to that is yes.

I mean, unless Stormy Daniels is directly linked to Russian

collusion.

Unless we find out she's the red sparrow.

The strange part of the FBI raid on Cohen's office is that it's only kind of related to the Russia investigation.

Why does this continue to expand?

It seems to be a web that grows constantly in new directions.

without actually leading anywhere.

Now maybe things change.

But boy, investigators better have something quick.

And it better be big.

America can handle the truth.

Whatever it is.

We want the truth.

We want the bad guys to go to jail.

We want the good guys to be, you know, protected.

We can handle the truth, whatever it is, I hope.

But I'm not sure that we can handle

this constant drilling down and never even getting close to the truth.

It's Tuesday, April 10th.

You're listening to the Glen Beck program.

All right, so let me

go through a couple of things.

First, let's just talk about the law because I didn't know yesterday.

Did you know, Stu, that attorney client privilege is not always privileged well i mean it makes sense in that if the attorney is committing a crime right like if michael cohen murdered someone right

the fact that he talked about it with donald trump is not going to protect that information from coming out correct so it's so this is really important to understand um because this is the whole crux of the matter as far as i understand it

if donald trump is talking to his attorney and he says, you know, because Perry Mason used to always say, you got to tell me the truth, man.

Why didn't you tell me the truth?

Well, because I didn't.

You got to tell me the truth.

And the reason why attorneys always say, tell me the truth, is because they have to know

so they can truly defend you.

And that is why there is that privilege.

So they can get to the unvarnished truth.

And that's protected.

however if donald trump is talking to michael cohen and michael cohen tells donald trump he did something illegal then that's not protected because donald trump is not cohen's attorney

that's one one aspect of this and the crime fraud exception to the attorney client privilege uh crime fraud exception implies if the client was in the process of committing or intended to commit a crime or fraudulent act, and the client communicated with the lawyer with the intent to further the crime or fraud or to cover it up.

You know, and again, that is usually, there's another part of this that has to do with actually searching a client's office.

For purposes of this policy, the subject includes an attorney who is a suspect, subject, or target, or an attorney who is related by blood or marriage to a suspect, or who is believed to be in possession of contraband or the fruits or instrumentalities of a crime.

Okay, so I hide my knife in my attorney's office.

Right.

It's like without this exception, and it's by the way, I just want to show, it was an assault knife.

I'm going to tell you that straight up.

Without this, essentially, what you'd be doing is giving attorneys immunity from the law.

Correct.

All they'd have to do with their crimes is talk to one of their clients, and they'd never get prosecuted for a crime themselves.

This doesn't mean that Donald Trump committed a crime.

It's that they believe Michael Cohen committed a crime.

Okay, so now here's the other thing.

When this happens, there is a dirty team and a clean team.

And this is really important.

The government cannot go in and just, if they're investigating somebody, they cannot just go in themselves and read all of the documents that are attorney-client privileged.

So they have to send in a second group.

And these are not investigators with the

dirty team, if you will, or the clean.

I can't remember which one.

Let me see which one is clean.

Set up a dirty team.

Okay, so the clean team is the one that is running the investigation.

Okay, so that would be, you know, let's just say it's Mueller, just to keep it simple.

Okay.

So Mueller's running the investigation.

And he says, I'm telling you,

here's what's really going on.

And Cohen has this, this, and this.

And

if I put all the pressure on him I can, he's hiding it.

I'm telling you, it is in the office.

They say, okay,

go to a judge.

This is not a FISA court judge.

This is a magistrate.

This is regular

non-patriot act stuff.

It goes to the judge.

After it has gone to the local attorneys, federal attorneys, the attorneys have to sign off and say, yeah, you've got something there.

Yep, you've got something.

Yep, you've got something.

Let's gather it all up.

Let's bring it to the judge.

The judge then has to look at it and say, okay,

we're going to take extraordinary

circumstance approach on this because

there's a 99% chance

he's got it in his office.

He's got the knife in his safe.

So go.

Now, in this particular case, all of those attorneys and that judge were appointed by Donald Trump.

So

it wasn't easy.

This is not deep state stuff.

And the judge, don't know exactly what he's thinking, but I'm guessing this is historic.

This can change everything.

And you damn well better get this one right.

So I don't think that the judge just higgledy, piggledy, said, oh, you know what?

Yeah, go on in.

He thought of this.

He had to have because he's going to, he'll be in the history books.

If this was wrong, he's going to be in the history books.

So nobody took this lightly.

Now, they go in and they gather everything.

The clean team,

they're the ones doing the investigation.

They are not part of that raid.

They go in, they gather everything the judge said that they could gather.

And the dirty team is the one that does that and they are instructed what am I looking for by the clean team and the clean team says you're looking for this this this

okay

they then go through all of the communications all of the paperwork all of the documents and they are looking only for those things

if those things exist if they find a knife in the safe they bring it out

If they don't find a knife in the safe, they put all of that stuff back and say, sorry, you you were wrong.

And they are not allowed to tell anyone

what they read outside of that investigation.

Now, that's the way it's supposed to work.

I would imagine that's the way it's going to work.

I would hope that it's going to work.

The investigation seems to be on Cohen and not on Donald Trump.

This is a slippery slope.

If Donald Trump don't, please, Mr.

President, please, please do not take the bait.

There is a giant trap in the woods.

And

right sitting there, right on the little lever that closes that trap, is Mueller.

If you go to grab that,

That trap will go off and ensnare you.

Do not, please, Mr.

President, do not fire Mueller.

The president is being pushed into a corner, and it is a political corner, and he's got to be smart enough not to take the bait.

Please, don't take the bait.

Don't escalate.

Let it play out.

But don't fire Mueller.

No, that's not a good move.

Because

without, remember, impeachment is a political process.

So without a big midterm election victory in the House and the Senate, most likely Donald Trump is not going to get impeached.

Or he, you know, if he loses the House, he may get impeached, but he's not going to get removed.

The issue is if you start, if you do something that's so brazen, it starts pissing off those

fringe supporters and the Republican Party, you know, know, the Lindsey Grahams of the world.

And you might say, who cares about Lindsey Graham?

Believe me, not me.

But when it comes down to pure numbers at that point, and if you get enough of those,

even if you think they're not Trump people, even if you think they're annoying moderates like Susan Collins,

you need them all.

You need them to be able to protect that line of removal from office.

And you can't give them easy stuff.

You can't give them a firing of Mueller.

You can't.

You can't.

Because those guys

will be swayed and they'll move off to the side.

You can't give them anything easy.

And is anything from Michael Cohen going to lead back to Trump?

Very specifically, Michael Cohen's job is to make sure it doesn't.

So if he's an attorney of any value,

it won't get back to Trump.

I want to get back to that because I don't know if he's an attorney of any value.

Oh, I don't.

I think he's terrible.

Yeah, I think he's a terrible attorney.

If he has any ability as an attorney, this is exactly his job to protect Donald Trump.

Yeah.

And not sure that that happened because I don't think these guys expected to win.

And I think that changed everything.

We're going to talk about that.

Also, Frank Luntz is going to join us in a few minutes.

How is this going to play with the American people?

What does this mean?

This is just not good.

This is just a big development on

our disunion again.

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Glenn Bach Mercury.

Glenn Beck.

Reason has a story about the breakdown of this.

It says, according to Cohen's own lawyer, the U.S.

Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York, widely regarded within itself as being the most important and prestigious U.S.

Attorney's Office in the country, secured the search warrants for the FBI based on referral from Robert Mueller's office.

Assuming this report is correct, that means that the very mainstream U.S.

Attorney's Office, not just special counsel Robert Mueller's office, thought that there was enough for a search warrant here.

There was an early CNN report that mentioned

that the judge himself was appointed by

Trump.

It's actually

the U.S.

Attorney of the Southern District of New York, Jeffrey Berman, the guy who went to

get this done.

So

the judge is a magistrate.

He's appointed by all of the other judges.

So there's not that political, outside political influence.

So he's supposedly more neutral.

But it is the fact that

the FBI came, appointed by Trump, and had to convince him that we need to break this rule.

Mercury.

This is the Glenbeth program.

Very excited to talk to my friend Frank Luntz, focus with Frank.com and founder and chairman of Luntz Global.

Welcome, Frank.

How are you?

I'm fine.

I appreciate the chance to talk to you.

It's been,

and I have to stay off television because every time I get interviewed, I inevitably say something that just blows life up for the next 24 hours.

Yeah, I know, I know.

And you're, you know, when you say good to talk to you, I don't know if you believe that, Frank.

I mean,

good to talk to you.

Yeah, it's a good issue.

Yeah.

Is the people who listen.

And can I raise that just for one second in a genuinely respectful way?

Sure.

You retweet tweeted,

let me speak English here.

You retweeted my New Year's resolutions, the things that I was going to try to do this year to be a better person.

And

a couple of them were deliberately funny, and the other ones were serious.

I think I gave you a list of 10.

And the responses from those who are listening to me right now were so mean

and so vicious.

The usual stuff making fun of my weight and how I look or calling me a traitor, a loser.

Why have we become

so mean?

And is this really what we want to teach our kids?

That if you disagree with someone, do you tell your child to just start insulting them publicly, tearing them down, or bullying them in any way?

It doesn't bother me on a personal level, but it really bothers me on a cultural level that we are now so

ugly to each other, and this is not the American way.

This is not what we should be as a country.

This is not what made us so great as a country.

We were always willing to disagree, always willing to argue and then come together for a common good.

But thanks to the web and social media,

and it's happening on the right, not just on the left,

that it's open season.

And I know the comments you'll get to what I'm saying right now will be, oh, he's fat and he's got it, and he's

they want to call you fat, Frank.

They got to come through me because I'm fatter than you are now.

And

he's overly defensive.

But you know what?

The same people who go to church on Sunday and ask for forgiveness are the same people on Monday who write the most vicious postings.

And I'm sorry, but I don't know how to reconcile that.

So, Frank,

I'd actually like to sit down and talk to you about that at some point because

I see the same things that you're seeing on both sides and have for a long time.

Let me just quickly say to to the audience,

Frank is a guy that when I first met him, I didn't know if I trusted him because I didn't know if he was part of the cabal of Washington or what.

And so I watched him for a while.

And

I have rarely seen a man who cares as deeply for his country as Frank Luntz.

A man who is a watchman on the tower and is gathering the evidence of what is happening to us as individuals and is listening to people, truly listening and trying to tell the people in the media and in Washington what you're saying.

And I've seen this man

go through heartbreak and

every time I, that's why I laughed when he said, good to talk to you,

because

Frank and I believe many of the same things about where we're headed as a people.

And we're both so frustrated because we don't feel that anybody in power is listening.

And we're now starting to be a little afraid that people have grown cold inside.

But,

Frank,

blow those people off.

I know who you are, and I know what your intent is, and I appreciate it.

I really appreciate it.

So

that'll be the kindest thing.

That'll be, I should be recording this because that will be you will be the only kind voice I hear today, and I promise you, Glenn, go look at the comments after people listen to this.

Let's see if there's any warmth.

Let's see if there's at least an understanding that this viciousness and the brutality that we communicate to each other.

Look,

you are among the most principled people I know, and you wear your principles on your sleeve, and you're passionate and emotional,

and because of that, controversial, as am I.

But we're trying to have an adult conversation, and when we hate it, when people like Bill Maher

dismiss those with faith and belief and seeking trust,

we dismiss people like him as being rude and offensive.

But too often we do exactly the same thing towards the left.

It's not right when they do it to us.

It's not right when we do it to them.

And I just think we can have these conversations in a far more productive way.

And in the end, in some cases, agree to disagree.

And in other cases, agree to work together.

So,

Frank, let me change the subject here

and see what you think the response is going to be

to

what happened with Cohen yesterday, because

this is a really complex kind of story, and I think everybody's going to run to their tribes and not really pay attention.

And I think this is deeply, deeply dividing if the FBI doesn't have something gigantic that comes out of this quickly.

I agree with that because what people are asking now is if you can

basically invade the president's lawyer's office and take everything

then there are no limits that the federal government can use and I know people have been investigated and I know people have been thrown to jail and these are conservatives who told me that their support for law and order completely changed when you have a lawyer on your side and you have 20 people against you and they assume you're guilty guilty until proven innocent yeah That the traditional conservative approach of being pro-FBI, pro-CIA, pro-justice, pro-investigation, that if you're indicted, you're therefore guilty, when they've been through this, they tell me that their opinion of

the judiciary and the justice system in America goes from 100% support to 0%.

And I think there's an interesting perspective there that we need to learn.

If you're on that side that says that

they don't make mistakes,

that if the police accuse you, you're therefore guilty.

We need to hear from those who've been through that process

because I know I've heard it, and it's frightening to

it's frightening to think that our government is so out of control that they can destroy people's lives.

The government.

And it is

another thread that is being pulled that

divides us because the ACLU would have been all over this if this would have been happening.

And

the media, if Hillary Clinton would have won and this would have happened,

the media and the ACLU would have been all over this.

But there's no consistency.

There's no consistency on the left, no consistency on the right.

And so nothing means anything.

and it's just another thread where we're left with

nothing.

Well, the problem is there has to be a solution to this.

And I think that what they did, they would have had a responsibility.

This is

those who went into Cohen's office.

That they had a responsibility to explain.

exactly what they were looking for and the evidence that this is not something that should be confidential.

I'm a believer that you shine a bright light on the things that you do and that you have a responsibility to explain.

And the public has a right to know

why these things are happening.

But when they happen in secret, it just creates a greater degree of cynicism and distrust.

Horrible.

You okay today, Frank?

I worry about you.

I actually do because I know how you

know you.

I don't, we're not like close friends or anything, but I have always felt when I talk to you one-on-one

that

you get it and you are carrying the weight of all of the citizens that you talk to in your focus groups.

You're carrying their voice around in you and you can't get anybody to listen and

it weighs you down.

Are you okay?

I'm better now than I have been in a long time.

Good.

I actually left the country.

I went to people laugh because I made this comment on Vice

18 months ago that I was going to New Zealand.

I never made it because they had an earthquake.

Well, I went about a month ago, and it was beautiful.

It was exactly what people expected.

And I got a chance to get outside the country and not have to talk politics for 10 days.

And that actually was the best blessing I've had.

What I find is it actually does help to turn it off.

and to just enjoy life itself.

It's very hard to do.

I don't believe many of your listeners do that.

I think that one of the reasons why they listen to you is because they want to know the truth.

They want to.

But in my case, if you internalize it and you personalize it, it becomes very difficult over time.

Yeah, yeah.

Frank, good to talk to you.

Have a good day.

Thank you so much.

Glenn, thank you.

You bet.

Just take a moment to criticize Frank Luntz here.

I'm obviously joking, but

we love Frank, but

he gets out of the way of the comments.

And, you know, social media can be so destructive.

You know what he is?

The thing is,

I think he's internalizing that because

he's trying to work for the people.

What he does is he listens to people.

And so for the last six, seven, eight years, he's been coming to me.

We've had several private conversations and maybe over the last 10, and he has been just as concerned about things and said, Glenn, you know, he's come to me several times and said, Glenn, you're the only one that is actually listening to the people.

You're the only one that is actually getting this.

And I'm telling you, it's worse than you think.

Somebody's got to speak for them.

Somebody has to listen.

And he could never get anybody to listen.

And now I feel like he feels like now people are turning on him.

And he's like,

I'm just trying to help.

I'm trying to tell people what you're saying and

why you're frustrated and what they've done to cause that frustration and

to heal it.

I think that's what he's feeling.

It's really difficult, though, when you look at Twitter to have anything other than the opinion that the world's going to collapse upon itself at any moment.

It's just not a fun place to be unless you can completely ignore it and disassociate yourself from what's going on there even if you disagree with frank lunts do me a favor tweet something nice to him just

let a man let a land let a man have a little bit of hope uh in humanity uh that we can disagree without hating each other or calling each other names do that will you

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Glenn back Mercury.

Glenn back.

Just writing a

to Frank.

I think, you know, it's weird.

It's

sometimes you can forget what it's like to be.

I mean,

I've had my kids

called names and spat on in public.

I've had my wife things thrown at her because she was married to me.

You can forget, and if you've never been in that line of fire, people think, well, I get bad things said about me on social media.

It's not the same because the volume isn't the same.

And

the public that actually feels they have a right to do that

in person is just,

it becomes shocking.

And when you first go through it,

it's very difficult.

It's very difficult.

But that's what we have to get past.

That's what we have to...

We have to have a brighter vision for the future.

I don't, I, I am actually more optimistic than I have been possibly in the last 10 years.

I believe that there is a pathway.

I do believe that there are, there are positive things that are happening.

We're going to talk to the guys in Indiana today that, that are making a difference.

And it's, it's not that they're doing something

that is so groundbreaking, although it is, it's that this feeling that they have and are now expressing is happening all over the country, and it's a very positive sign.

And we'll get into that coming up in just a second.

Also, we're going to go through The Crisis of Responsibility, an incredible book that I have read that everyone should read: The Crisis of Responsibility.

We talk to the author next:

Glenn, back,

Mercury,

Love.

Courage.

Truth.

Glenn.

Beck.

You want to know how to blow a progressive's mind and argument?

It's actually pretty easy.

It takes about 100 years, but it's a little easy.

All you do is you let them all just play out.

You just let all of their solutions play out

because they always break down in the end.

And once you get there, then you're just like, oh, wow, this really doesn't work.

I mean, it'd be better if we just intellectually thought things through.

Case in point, gender.

We might do things because it makes people feel good, but

along the way, we start denying truths that just start to disrupt absolutely everything.

And in the end, you're just denying science.

Let me give you this case.

Champions of social justice want you to believe that gender is fluid because it makes people feel better.

Once the chains of of gender science were lifted, the movement went, well, off

the chain.

By February 2014, there were 58 genders listed.

Four months later, there were 71 genders.

Today, there are over 112 listed genders.

I'd like to make it 114,

but I can't because they won't allow male and female to actually be on the list of genders.

Okay.

Let's talk science for a second.

There are only two genders.

Science teaches that.

X and Y.

Two genders.

Everything else we do, that's fine.

You can make you feel good.

We can call each other whatever you want to call.

But we cannot deny science.

No, no, no.

Fight for the cause.

Okay?

Let's go over across the pond.

Let's go to London here for a second.

Leave it to the Fabian Society to unwittingly make the conservative case for guns without meaning to, because things have broken down in the UK.

They've already banned guns.

So now they're starting a new initiative,

comprehensive knife control.

This is fantastic.

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, he's got a problem.

Apparently, it comes as a shock to progressives all over the world, but bad guys and criminals occasionally try to hurt people, and if they can't get a gun, they'll use something else.

I know, it's a shocker.

Comes from years of intense research that we did.

We spent millions of dollars, had to even shut down one of the turtle tunnels, or we thought we were going to have to, but the Fed just printed the money because you can do that.

Anyway, our cousins across the pond thought that they had it all figured out when they banned guns back in the 90s.

They did it!

As if Neville Chamberlain was speaking from the grave, peace in our time.

But if I may, I'd like to pump the brakes here just a little bit.

Crime in the UK has now spiraled out of control.

No guns in the country.

Yet the murder rate in London has now overtaken that of New York City.

Now, how can that be?

Well, they've got a problem with knife and acid crimes.

Okay.

You want to ban something?

You want to put some controls on things?

I think it's acid, because I can't think of a good reason anyone's walking around with acid

now maybe it's just me I haven't thought it through but

and you know what there's also a correlation between acid on the face crimes and

I can't think of it right now but we probably shouldn't talk about it anyway so they're now moving to take away knives Apparently, the tools criminals use don't really matter to them as long as it gets the job done.

You can can practically hear the phone call from the Fabian Society Library to the London Mayor's office.

It's me from Fabian Society.

Start banning things.

Ah, I can ban lawlessness.

No, that won't work.

Ban evil.

No, no, I don't recommend that.

Let's ban cutlery.

Exactly.

So that's what they did.

Operation

Spectre.

That's the real name of the operation.

Stopping random citizens and searching them for any kind of tools of death.

Now, the primary boogeyman here was knives.

And the mere fact that the UK has gone from banning guns to kitchen cutlery is actually enough for us to laugh and prove our point.

But the crackdown on inanimate objects didn't stop there.

They're also confiscating, and this is not a joke, scissors, pliers, screwdrivers, and hammers.

Pretty much anything that could be used as a weapon.

What's next?

You know what?

They strangled that person to death.

I want to ban hands.

Congratulations, UK.

You won't stop a single crime with this.

The only thing you're going to do is impede, you know,

citizens from actually getting their work done, make everybody a criminal.

You're not going to stop the bloodthirsty civilians that are, you know,

actually doing crime.

You're going to get those killers that are just looking to assemble their IKEA furniture.

Now, eating a steak might be a little difficult as well over in the UK.

Banning the tools of criminals and evil men don't really stop crime, but now in the UK they may stop steak.

So a big shout out and a thank you to the London mayor for opening Pandora's box and making making a case for the Second Amendment.

Because now instead of watching clowns on CNN, I can watch the town halls on the BBC where they are going to be arguing the evils of their NRA.

You know,

the National Ratchet Association.

It's Tuesday, April 10th.

You're listening to the Glenbeck program.

David Bonson is

a guy who wrote a book called Crisis of Responsibility,

Our Cultural Addiction to Blame, and How You Can Cure It.

And it is really, really good.

David is a guy who was more of an economist, was going to write a book on the meltdown of 2008.

What was really to blame, if you will, on that, what we haven't done, because we haven't really done anything to fix it.

We've only made it worse.

But as he started to get into it, he realized that we have a crisis of responsibility.

And we welcome David to the program.

Hi, David.

How are you?

I'm doing great, Gwen.

Good to be with you.

This is a great book.

Really, really fascinating

and really well written.

I want to kind of get into the meat of a lot of it and just kind of go over some of the points in your book.

First, explain the crisis of responsibility.

Explain the theory of just that.

Yeah, I mean, essentially,

in line with how you sort of set it up, there was an underlying theme out of the financial crisis, and it really has sort of been baked into the American understanding of what took place,

that there was some great big

infraction that took place.

And if you're left of center, you believe that infraction came out of Wall Street.

And if you're right of center, you believe that infraction came from government, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, maybe even Federal Reserve monetary policy.

And there's a certain kind of prima facie truth to both sides.

Wall Street had

its fair share of negligence, and most certainly government housing policy contributed greatly.

But the problem was that both narratives, whether on the right or left, were perfectly willing to treat Main Street as a victim of the crisis and to totally ignore Main Street's culpability in the crisis and so as I studied it further and further it became just too easy and too simplistic to say that big greedy bankers were giving money to people and then those people

really wanted to pay it back and just couldn't and the government was was asleep at the wheel and forcing the banks to do this, and so forth, and so on.

There was all kinds of policy failure.

So, this is the

responsibility crisis.

So, David, this is not medicine that most people want to hear.

And we've talked about it for years when they were saying these were predatory loans.

Well, some of them were, but a lot of times, look, I went in, you don't need to ask, I don't need to show you my proof of

even a wage.

don't i don't have to prove anything that that was us thinking well this is this is great and we were we were in it it wasn't they weren't necessarily predatory they were they were working almost in some ways with us to create this because we wanted it

Well, and I actually use the term.

There was something very predatory going on, Glenn.

It was predatory borrowing.

And it's a term I use in the book because the fact of the matter is, best case, you had people that were willing to take loans irresponsibly, that believed they could pay it back, hoped they could pay it back, but were being somewhat reckless.

Worst case, they were committing full-blown fraud, absolutely lying and just assuming that even though their cash flow would not enable them to service the mortgage, the property would continue escalating and they would just participate in this little pyramid scheme that became the U.S.

housing market from 2004 to thousand six.

But then, as I really delve into in Chapter four of the book, this is the part that breaks my heart morally and culturally, is the fact of the matter is we had no financial crisis if it weren't for the people that were perfectly able to meet their loan obligations, that actually could make their payment.

Yeah, maybe their house price had gone down in value and it was unfortunate and so forth, but they had the assets, they had the income, but they were allowed to just walk away from the loans.

And this is the area that I think warrants a further cultural and moral conversation is to why in 1991 in the savings and loan crisis, when 20% of Americans were upside down in their home, did we have less than 1%

of a default rate?

And yet in 2008, just 17 years later, not only did you see upwards of 20% of people walking away from their homes, but this is the worst part.

They could go to the bar and brag about it on Friday night.

That was the part that to me indicated this crisis of responsibility.

So there's a great deal of difference now.

One of my favorite presidential stories, I think, that very few people know is about Harry Truman, who I may disagree with his policies here and there.

I think was a really decent, decent man.

In World War II, he comes back from World War II and he gets a loan to start a business, and he runs a men's clothing store, he and his partner.

They go into business, things

don't go well, and he goes bankrupt, I think in the mid-20s.

It takes him until he's president to pay all those loans back.

He doesn't just take the bankruptcy.

He says, look, it was my fault that we didn't make it.

I borrowed this money, and when I borrowed it, I said I would pay it back.

And so

I'm I'm going to pay it back.

And he paid every person, every lender he paid back, even though he had the ability to go bankrupt.

That's right.

I think that speaks to a certain character and ethos that existed.

And in fact, the whole Great Depression, by the way, if you've read some of what Amity Schles has written on it, it's fascinating.

It was a culture in which at then you could really argue people had tremendous justification in needing to sort of walk away from some obligation.

But there was a stigma that said, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to be a deadbeat.

There was struggle, but 2008 was not a situation defined by that legitimate struggle.

It was a self-induced problem from excessive greed.

And what I argue in the book is that that greed at Wall Street that we're all very quick to condemn was exactly the same covetousness on Main Street.

Wall Street, they just wore, you know, fancier suits and had more zeros and so forth involved.

But it was the same, um it was cut from the same moral cost right and you're not dismissing the the um the hideousness of wall street and the greed uh there that they went through you're just saying no i'm not i'm not i'm not but i will say this clenn this is very important if we were actually being honest we would be more critical of wall street's incompetence than we would their greed wall street did something horrifically wrong They bet in big numbers that Main Street would pay their bills.

That was the tremendous folly of Wall Street.

Okay.

All right.

You have to continue to listen to this.

If you are looking for some answers and some things of how we got here and how we can fix it, Crisis of Responsibility is a must-read.

We'll continue with its author in a second.

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Glenn Back Mercury.

Glenn Beck.

With David Bonson, the author of Crisis of Responsibility, David French did the foreword for it.

It's an exceptional book.

And David is here to continue the conversation.

David,

before we move off of

the personal responsibility,

one of the reasons why we're having

that we may have real trouble in the future is because all of us, or many of us,

have decided that we are going to take the easier easier route for one reason or another.

And you point out that

one of the big signs is the disability insurance that we're now on and the record numbers and how that's just not possible to be real.

Well, I mean, it it would require a certain leap of faith that is somewhat staggering medically because 100%

of the 700%

increase increase in disability claims over the last eight years is limited to the area of back pain and anxiety.

So somehow you have to believe that there has been absolutely no increase in anything organic or organ-related, neurological, cardio, respiratory, all these things.

And yet it just simply comes down to the two areas where any old doctor can write a note and get somebody out.

So it's really quite distressing.

Because it's a 700% increase.

Yeah, well, 700% in just eight years.

I mean, the numbers going back

for a generation are far worse than even that.

And that's tracking those using Social Security.

So

what is this telling you, David?

It's telling me that we have right now a segment of the society that is comfortable to live off the public dole,

not work, receive compensation for it, and to do so with highly questionable claims about their own physical and mental health.

And that the reason for that is the underlying breakdown of morality and breakdown of dignity.

that is embedded in a work ethic, the very work ethic that made America the greatest nation on earth.

So

you point out early in the book that we are addicted to blame, and until we start taking responsibility for ourselves,

we're just going to get worse and worse.

Where do we begin?

Well, one of the things, you know, I believe very much, as is the case of most really stellar recovery programs for those who have wrestled with personal demons, that of course, the very first step is to admit you have a problem.

And that's one of the reasons I suggest in the book that admitting we're in this position and stopping the blame casting.

The next time, see, I'm a conservative, limited government advocate, but the next time the government does something that really bothers me, I want to be able to stop and say, okay, the government could be wrong here, but what else could be going on?

Not just simply rely on the fact that big government is always and forever the permanent recipient of my frustration, ire, and blame.

And likewise, that person who has been fired from a couple corporate jobs and is personally very vindictive at corporate America to always assume their sort of default psychology is that the man is out to get them, so to speak.

breaking down that mentality in our personal lives, but recognizing that we in fact have it.

And I wish very much, as a right-wing guy, that this was something that the left had a monopoly on.

Right.

But I actually think that they had for many years.

Okay, hang on, we're going to pick it up there.

The author of Crisis of Responsibility:

Glenn Beck, Mercury.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

If you're looking for answers of what the hell happened to my country, how did we get here?

What do I do about it?

And how do I change my life and my circumstances?

A must-read book, Crisis of Responsibility, came out a few weeks ago.

Our cultural addiction to blame and how you can cure it.

David Bonson is the author of the book.

He describes himself as

a national review kind of conservative.

David, you start out with a quote from

Foucault,

which

this is the postmodernism, BS, radical leftist that really caused, I think, a lot of the arrogance and elitism that we have in academia now.

But you follow it with a quote from Gustav Le Bon.

who was a critic of socialism.

And throughout the book, you kind of, it's almost Jeffersonian in the way you do this as he wrote a letter between an argument between his head and his heart.

You say there's an even-handedness that we're missing, and

we need to really

have a balance and hold each side to task.

That's right.

I think at the heart of this really intense polarization that we're experiencing in the political culture and this kind of tribalization that has taken place,

the ability to somehow magically interpret literally every single event that happens through some sort of partisan lens is a byproduct of the crisis of responsibility.

That we have so removed ourselves from family, church, community,

that

the mediating institutions of society that are so important for good civic life have been discarded and it's forced us into this kind of obsessive and polarized manner of living.

I feel like we've made our religion our political party.

And that's always the end run of statism.

And this is the thing I want to point out, Glenn, because I really believe

a target of the audience I had with the book are those who are right now very susceptible to the present populist uprising, which I acknowledge is responding to things that deserve to be responded to.

The elites, the big institutionalists have failed.

And yet my fear is that by us going forward and saying things like, if we just renegotiate a trade deal with China, all these jobs are coming back to Ohio.

Instead of acknowledging that there's actually been a total paradigm shift in the culture, not just economically and technologically, but culturally and morally.

That what we're doing is setting the table for more statism later.

Because when this populist uprising inevitably fails, we're not going to turn to greater individual responsibility, but rather to some sort of messiah to come bail us out.

And that messiah has always been the nanny state.

And that's what I'm trying to avoid.

So we have,

and it rings all the way through this book, and it is really,

I think, an important

book and study that you have done.

But I look at things like, for instance, you take on higher education, and you say, you know, it's not the either or.

What's wrong with universities?

It's not the rising student debt.

It's not the spread of relatism.

It's both debt and indoctrination, economic and ideological.

And so you say, blow the whole business model down.

Just blow it up

and start anew.

Do I have that right?

Oh, absolutely.

There's no way this can stop as long as they have access to the funds that they have.

Parents keep demanding the loans.

The government keeps giving the loans.

The universities keep taking them, giving a subsidy into the price.

So you have never-ending tuition inflation with absolutely no accountability from donors, parents, or students as to the product being presented is one of the biggest debacles I've ever seen.

So

here is the

problem that I would like you to help me noodle through.

People will say, and we see it in politics all the time, well, I can't not send my kid to college because that's the system.

And so it just continues to cycle through this.

Well,

I've only got two choices.

It's a binary choice.

I vote for the donkey or the elephant.

And so the system is built to keep you in that.

How do you convince enough people to break that model?

Like most things, bottom-up, one family at a time.

And I'm not suggesting, and I actually go to great lengths to say this, that people no longer go to college.

What I'm saying is have a thoughtful, intentional conversation with the student,

the parents, the maybe teachers are involved.

What are the goals?

What are you trying to accomplish?

What is it you're looking to do with your life?

For one thing, the lack of that conversation is one of the great reasons I think we have this systemic extended adolescence where our whole society has decided it's okay for people to be kids all the way through their 20s.

I have no problem with people starting these conversations, again, with a lot of open-endedness and vulnerability around them, but looking at what their goals may be.

Now, maybe they want to go to college to meet a spouse.

Maybe they need specialized vocational training.

There's all kinds of reasons to go, but don't go because,

A, if you're a parent, you want to be able to brag to your friends where your kid went to school.

I think that is one of the biggest drivers of this whole mess, frankly.

But also,

having the student involved in what it is they want out of their life and how is college going to advance it.

And so I think that it will not take place overnight.

But right now, what we're seeing is the, it's always economic, right?

The economics are forcing a cultural moment.

David, there's a lot of people who are,

who I think fought for 10, 15, 20 years and have been fighting and fighting and fighting to change this and

to do the right thing.

And they feel, I think, at this point, nobody's listening.

Nobody's changing anything.

Nothing happens.

I just keep getting on the short end of the stick, and I can't afford to live this way anymore.

I have to have somebody who is listening to me that is going to plow the way because I've tried.

I think there's a lot of people who have really tried for a long time and they feel like they're just being mowed over.

In terms of the higher education conversation?

No, the whole thing, all of it, higher education, the jobs, income.

They see the direction of the country.

They know, but they feel like, what am I going to do?

I've tried.

I've tried to do everything right.

And I just keep getting screwed.

And that frustration is perfectly understandable and rational and probably in most cases accurate.

And yet, like any other frustration we face, as soon as we're able to sort of calm the emotions, settle down, and think through it, the only thing we can do is keep fighting.

We cannot give up.

The free and virtuous society that I am advocating, that I want as my telos out of this book and out of my life efforts, can only come about by an army of people from the bottom up who believe in living morally responsible lives.

The frustrations that we feel can never become an abdication of our own responsibility.

You know, David, in the Warden School of Business, I don't believe they teach moral sentiments.

They only teach wealth of nations, if they still even teach that.

And I think your book

is really a new kind of moral sentiments that, you know, if the people don't change,

you know,

let me phrase it.

What we're going through right now is really a reflection of what we have allowed ourselves to accept or become over a very long period of time.

And so

we have to fundamentally change, and the system will change.

That's right.

It starts with us, and then there's no limit to what we can do.

It becomes infectious in our families, infectious in our communities, and a lot of the things I describe or prescribe in Chapter 11, the individual things that I am suggesting people do,

that contagious piece takes over.

And not only does it bring greater satisfaction and joy in our own lives, but I think serves as an example for how communities need to function?

I have an incredible optimism, even in the face of everything we're dealing with right now, even in this polarized political age and in this dysfunctional and sometimes morally reprobate culture.

I have a tremendous amount of optimism that what made us great can make us great again if we stop the waincasting and look forward.

So let me ask you this, David, because I feel the same thing.

The more I look at the opportunities that are on the horizon

and stop looking at the past, recognize the past, recognize the mistakes, try to correct those mistakes, and then see the opportunities that are on the horizon.

I am really, really optimistic, more optimistic than I've been in probably 10 or 15 years.

With that being said,

we are...

I mean, good heavens, we are facing a bucket load of stuff that only the worst times in the world's history history was it this bad around the world or had the seeds of being this bad around the world.

Where do you see us in 20 years?

You know, it's very difficult because most project, whatever I predict right now about 20 years has a 0% chance of playing out.

It's one thing I've learned as an economist, Glenn, is humility.

And these types of predictions are amazing.

And also as one who believes in the providence of God, that he has a way of surprising us.

Would I say things will be significantly better in 20 years?

I can't say that, but I can say this.

There are unsustainable things taking place.

We talked about the higher education business model.

We talked about the lack of school choice opportunity for underprivileged and often minority families.

Those things are unsustainable.

There will be change there.

There will be improvement.

The one thing I'll say, for all the good and the bad that can be said around the Donald Trump phenomena, nobody could have predicted it.

Nobody saw it coming.

And I believe that what will take place in 20 years, just as the fall of communism in the early 90s came out of nowhere, whatever takes place in the next 20 years is likely to shock us all, for good and for bad.

But I want us, those who are sort of the remnant, who believe in the values of our country, believe in faith and family, but believe in taking initiative over our own own lives.

I think that one of the things, Glenn, that is most discouraging is that the backbone of America, that kind of nostalgic image we get of these blue-collar families that just want to be there with each other, work hard, and come home and worship and live together, I fear that that is what's falling apart, that that

ethos is disintegrating.

What I desperately hope we will see over the next 20 years is individuals not only taking responsibility for their own economic well-beings,

but taking responsibility for their individual decisions, building strong families, and then the one piece that I think is so important I wrote about near the end of the book, getting their joy out of their production, not their consumption.

Seeing themselves as image bearers of God that are here to produce on planet Earth and not merely be a consumer.

I believe that that alone can change the world.

David, thank you so much.

God bless.

The book is Crisis of Responsibility, Our Cultural Addiction to Blame and How You Can Cure It by David Bonson.

You can get that at bookstores everywhere, as well as following him on Twitter at David, B-A-H-N-S-E-N.

They're still bookstores?

Well, I mean, they're online, but yeah.

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Glenn Back Mercury.

Glenn back.

There's still so much to take care of today.

This craziness in Washington

is just,

I don't even know where to begin on that

because I don't know what the truth is.

I don't know if anybody is actually looking for the truth anymore.

Does it even matter?

See,

this is why when Clinton was in office, we were like, yeah, yeah, no, you have to have character.

You have to have character.

And we have dismissed character in almost every aspect of

life in Washington, D.C.

And yet we still sort of kind of demand it when we need it.

But I don't trust anybody in Congress.

I'm not sure I trust anybody in the higher levels of the FBI or

do I trust the court system?

Do I trust the administration?

Do I trust the press?

I don't trust anybody.

So how are we going to get to know the truth?

How do we know

that

this is a witch hunt or it's not a witch hunt?

Well, the safest thing is to wait and see what the information is.

I know.

We can get out ahead of ourselves because this is a big deal.

I mean, we have to step back and say how bananas this situation is.

Oh, this is freaking out.

If they don't have something massive here,

this is a banana republic.

Because if you believe Trump, if you like Trump, you might think that it's because they're just going after him more than ever before.

And if you don't like him, you might think that Trump is more corrupt than any president before.

Whichever side of that you fall on, it doesn't matter.

This is a bonker situation.

The FBI is raiding the personal attorney of the president of the United States.

This is unbelievable.

It really is.

Glenn back.

Mercury.

Love.

courage,

truth,

Glenn Beck.

You know, the stories will tell you that it was federal agents that led a sweeping campaign to finally shut down Backpage, but that's actually not true.

It was a group of conservatives, and a group of libertarians, and a group of progressives, and people that I don't have anything in common with that all got together and said, This is evil and has got to be stopped.

Backpage, it's an online prostitution empire.

But now feminists are outraged, in particular, the women's march.

Now, you'd think that an organization that claims to be interested in women's rights would celebrate the recent lawsuit against Backpage, the online brothel, which has resulted in the oppression of countless sex workers and rewarded countless sex traffickers and was

trafficking in children.

But then again, the women's march is being led by Linda Sarsour, whose vision of feminism allows female

genital

mutilation and mandated burqas.

So I don't know what this organization really stands for.

First,

the assistant U.S.

Attorney Elizabeth Strange described internal documents and emails from Backpage as, quote, shocking in their callousness.

She added, Backpage has earned hundreds of millions millions of dollars from facilitating prostitution and sex trafficking, placing profits over the well-being and safety of the many thousands of women and children who are victimized by its practices.

End quote.

Now, there was almost universal applause for shutting down Backpage.

It isn't really a partisan issue at all.

Most people and most policymakers agree that online sex trafficking is bad, but it is objectively illegal

when you are knowingly trafficking in children.

There is no use offering objective realities to the brand of the fourth wave feminism practiced by the Women's March, however.

The Women's March just tweeted, quote, the shutting down of hashtag Backpage is an absolute crisis for sex workers who rely on the site to safely get in touch with clients.

Sex workers' rights are women's rights, end quote.

In the coming days, the next tweet, we'll be sharing more about sex workers' rights to uplift this critical issue.

We're all still learning, and as always, we have to listen to the voices of those most impacted.

Hashtag sex work is work.

The hashtag alone, sex work is work,

makes no sense at all.

How about sex work is illegal or sex work is dangerous, sex work is destructive, hashtag sex work is harmful and demeaning.

How about sex work

I'm sorry hashtag sex work hurts children

most sex work sex workers are confined to a life of addiction desperation control and manipulation what world is the women's march living in they rally around the me too movement They don't understand that prostitution, sex trafficking, and sex work are aggressive forms of sexual assault.

Even if the Women's March want to turn sex work into a powerful women scenario, it has been proven that a lot of the powerful women on Backpage were being prostituted against their will.

In fact, a lot of the powerful women weren't women at all.

They were underage kids.

This

latest iteration of feminism needs to reassess what's important.

They've jumped the shark a long, long time ago.

At times, it feels like coordinated contrarianism.

They're just opposed to whatever else anybody else is for.

And we're going to decide to hate everything that is white, everything that is male, everything that is capitalism, everything that is conservative.

Doesn't matter if it's a good idea or a bad idea.

It falls into that box.

Why else would you support sex work

and

the Islamic understanding of burqas equally

or at all

at least can you come up with a narrative that makes the slightest bit of sense

it's Tuesday April 10th you're listening to the Glenn Beck program so we've been focusing on a lot of stuff today and we're gonna get back to the president's attorney and what all of that means and what exactly happened in just a second.

But I wanted to stop and share with you some good news.

Yesterday, I told you about two guys, Mike Warren and Chris Lang.

They created something called Open Source Roads in Indiana.

It's a grassroots organization that decided enough is enough.

Our roads are horrible and we have to fix them.

And the state and the city said, well, it'll take you about $700 and some million dollars to fix them all.

And so these guys just got together.

I mean,

Chris is a libertarian activist,

and he was doing, you know, government outreach.

He was doing journalism, yada, yada, yada.

And he decided, you know what?

We're just going to get some asphalt and some friends, and we're just going to fix it ourselves.

And so far, it's going well.

We have Chris Lang on the phone with us now.

Hi, Chris.

How are you?

Pretty good, Glenn.

How about yourself?

Very good.

Congratulations on this.

And I was, you give me hope.

You and Mike give me hope and all all the guys that are working with you

thank you yeah we get that a lot and it's good to hear that kind of positive feedback really reaffirms what we're doing now I do I do want to say that I do believe the man is going to come and crush you to death

for doing this I mean you're a you're a an accident or a lawsuit away or just somebody who has a a bug up their butt that wants to crush you for for thinking and doing something on your own you realize that right

I realize,

picking like words here very carefully, I realize that the city has its own procedure for how they would like the road work to be done.

And

while they might argue about specific materials used and the way the labor is performed, I understand their biggest concern is safety.

However, to me, this problem has expanded, first of all, this whole thing was founded on a lot of people think we're just trying to fill in the potholes here.

and the problem is bigger than that because the pothole isn't just a pothole.

These are failures that our city has allowed to continue for years by moving the funds to places where they shouldn't be, just not spending funds specifically allocated for these repairs in general.

And

the issue has become safety in the universal sense.

When you drive to Indianapolis, it's almost like everyone's driving through a mapped out minefield.

You're watching the road 10 feet in front of you.

You can't even look up at the cars around you because you don't feel safe unless you're swerving vehemently and sometimes lane killing potholes.

So to us,

if the city is going to come down on us,

we are understanding that might be an issue, but we are willing to contend that the safety of the city is already at risk and what we're doing is necessary,

not just some kids filling in potholes.

And the whole point to this process, the whole point to this activism was to draw attention to that specific fact.

So if the city wants to give us more attention by trying to stop us from fixing their own problem,

then, man, that's just going to turn more heads their way, you know?

So, Chris, I love this because the system has failed, and you've decided that you're not going to just sit around and watch it fail, and

you're not going to do something destructive.

You're not somebody standing on the sidelines going, burn the whole thing down.

You're actually just going to say, you're just saying, we're going to roll up our sleeves and we're going to fix it ourselves because we have a right to.

Personally,

the burn the whole thing down would not be entirely opposed by me, but yes, I would say that it is important.

And that was the whole point was we could argue all day about the legislative process and what needs to go into it and who needs to be taxed what.

But

this is part of me and Mike's activism in general.

You know,

discussion can go on for so long, but while we're debating people are swerving potholes people are crashing and getting in accidents on our roads we're getting overtime in repair shops you know like other great issues mike and i have faced like mass incarceration or trying to stand with anti-war and anti-interventionist groups like these are big ideas but this is one of the ones we can directly and bipartisanly do something about and that's pretty much what the whole focus of the project has been.

So I have a kind of a, you know, some might say a stupid question, some might say, you know, a highly technical question.

I was always told there's no such thing as gun questions.

Well, good, because I.

Where the hell do you even buy asphalt?

I don't even know where you would get that.

That's the thing.

It seems like there's a lot of steps in this process, and that's

inevitably what the whole permit-seeking mindset has created in people.

Everyone thinks there's a million things you'd have to check off before your first pothole.

We got $50 of fundraising material.

We went to Menard and we asked an employee to show us where pothole makes closed, and there it was, big black bags just labeled pothole patch.

I couldn't even tell you the brand of them.

It's just so generic and straightforward.

And

everything else we just learned on the internet.

We just sweep out the holes, which is, by the way, more than what the city does.

In fact, most of our repair work is more than what the city does.

And

everything else is just our own personal experience.

At this point, we're kind of experts on the matter.

I have great respect for you,

Chris.

I really do.

I think what you guys are doing is fantastic.

I love the way you spoke about the anarchist in

Oregon that you saw

do basically the same thing in Oregon.

And you say, well, I'm not an anarchist, but that's a good idea.

And you guys did it.

And I think the spirit of people just saying

the expectation was that Indy Star quoted us as saying we're not anarchists.

And what I would, and they were correct on that quote, but what I was implying more was that group tends to be anarchist socialists, whereas we're more propertarian anarchists, a little more on the libertarian side of anarchists, but we are anarchists.

And a lot of the

philosophy behind what we do has been rooted in anarchism and individual self-reliance, you know?

Okay, so let me just, because anarchy gets a really bad name because it's anarchy,

but

there is a difference between anarchy, everybody fend for yourself.

There is no law, there is no rule,

there is no justice or, you know,

it's mad max.

And then there is the, you know, the constitutional anarchy as designed by our founders to where you are responsible for almost everything in your life.

The government is only going to do just the very, very basic.

Is that the kind of anarchy you mean?

Or the

Mad Max?

I've turned it all down, Mad Max.

Well, I played enough video games to tell you that the Mad Max scenario sounds pretty scary.

I definitely, though, am still founding a lot of

my personal philosophical beliefs, but

I do believe in a principled anarchy, the idea that there would be no forced hierarchies.

And a big word I'd stick with is voluntarius, which is no one is compelled to do anything off of their property by force.

And a big part of that is my universal application of that.

And

so, yeah, I think my anarchy isn't Mad Max.

It's more of

think of like a homeowner's organization and how it maintains a neighborhood that everyone chooses to live within the neighborhood.

No one is forced to.

Correct.

That on a global scale is pretty broad terms, what I believe in.

So can I ask you a question?

How are you, how are people, and this is an honest question, how are people anarchists and socialists?

So that was the question that I first, because I came from a fairly conservative family.

And when I first moved through my political compass, I came across libertarianism.

When I heard about libertarian socialism, that sounded like an oxymoron to me.

And I still don't identify or agree with a lot of the base socialist principles.

But in the theory, I understand it.

And

I still look for a lot of answers in the execution.

But what I see a lot of anarcho-socialists argue for is that the hierarchies themselves of the government don't exist, but democratic hierarchies where people within societies choose universal ways to distribute goods exist.

I don't know, like I said, I don't necessarily

hold these views.

That's kind of in general terms how I've come to understand it.

Yeah, okay.

Chris, congratulations.

Thank you so much.

If you start getting heat anywhere, you let us know, will you?

Definitely.

I would be glad to get some public eye on that.

Yeah.

And

we have a story that is on this now at Glenbeck.com.

If you want to know how you can help and get involved, go to glenbeck.com, look for the article, No Permit, No Problem.

And it will guide you to their GoFundMe page, and you can help them

not tear up the streets, but actually repair the streets and see if they can change things in Indianapolis.

Thank you so much, Chris.

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

So, Stu, if I have

socialist anarchists down,

it just means burn it all down, but then

the majority rules

and we can elect a few leaders through majority, and then they'll tell everybody how to live.

Sure.

I don't know.

That's what it sounded like.

Penn Gillette describes himself as an anarcho-capitalist.

Yes.

Which seems similar to what he's kind of talking about.

Right.

And that I understand.

Everybody just lives and

it's more like Ayn Rand.

Right.

The anarcho-socialists,

I don't know.

Because it eventually means that somebody has to have a gun and force everybody else to do things.

So I don't get that.

No.

Okay, we're going to talk about Donald Trump and his attorney and what is happening on that.

Also,

Syria.

We're still waiting.

Can I tie those two together when we come back?

Sure.

All right, we'll do that.

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Glenn Back Mercury.

Glenn Beck.

Alright, I

can we have an intellectual conversation here for a moment and take all emotion out on both sides and have an intellectual conversation.

This is a conversation I've never I've heard before in the past, maybe 30 years ago, but I've never really agreed with it because I didn't think that the

I didn't think the times warranted it, and I also didn't think that

I believe in law and order.

But

the federal attorney of southern New York, this is a guy who

interviewed with Donald Trump, the FBI agents that asked for this warrant or passed it on to the federal attorney.

Was there any kind of conversation at all?

And should there have been on,

yes,

this is a problem, and yes, we have this situation, and I don't know what it is,

but maybe let's wait for a little bit?

Imagine, look at what the president is going through today.

He has

Syria, Russia, China, North Korea.

All of those are just war pieces.

And I, again,

I don't,

you know, I don't want to stop law and order on, you know, war pieces or anything else.

It's important that we are clean all the way.

But it is also a massive distraction if

the federal attorney and the FBI don't have

rock hard evidence on Michael Kone,

if they don't have

if they are not buttoned up on arresting the president's, or I'm sorry, on raiding the president's attorney's office,

this is really dangerous the way this has been pulled off.

And at a very dangerous time, we have, I looked up the headline today, and it was, we're waiting for the White House's response to Russia on the Syria gassing.

And I had

the first time since the 1980s, I had the feeling that I had when I was working in Washington, D.C.

and

KAL-007 was blown out of the sky by the Russians.

It was a Korean airliner.

And I remember, this is in the time of, you know, Reagan saying it was an evil empire.

And I remember waiting for the White House response and looking at the top of the national, the Washington Monument and thinking, we're in ground zero, and this discussion is happening here.

Please, cool heads prevail.

What are the conversations like today

with the Pentagon officials and a very angry President Trump?

Glenn back

Mercury.

You're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

Welcome to Pat Gray from Pat Gray Unleashed, the show that follows us, the Blaze Radio Network at theBlaze.com.

Pat, let's talk a little bit about Michael Cohen and

the extraordinary historic measures that were taken yesterday in raiding the president's personal attorney's office.

Yeah, if they're after the president's personal attorney, I don't think any of the client privilege thing applies.

Because if they're just after Cohen, you're just after the attorney, right?

Yes.

If that's where the ultimate goal is to get him on campaign finance, and I think they probably can get him on that,

then maybe this isn't inappropriate.

But if it is Trump, then it's definitely inappropriate.

But is this a

campaign finance?

Isn't this kind of what Obama raised

or had,

what's his name?

Or a friend used to be a professor in New York in the Empire State Building.

He makes documentaries.

He's Indian.

He's an immigrant.

Oh,

he went to prison.

Dinesh D'Souza.

Thank you.

I felt like I was on password all the time.

The password is Dinesh D'Souza.

But Dinesh D'Souza, I mean, this is what he went

to jail for a lot less.

He went to prison.

for a lot less.

A lot less.

Because all he did was give too much money to a candidate he wanted to give money to.

Correct.

That's all he did.

Right.

Well, this is a little different.

This is paying off somebody to protect the campaign.

It certainly violates the spirit of the law.

Yeah.

And, you know, as you point out, Dinesh D'Souza went to jail for far less than this.

So it's possible they could come after Cohen that way.

Again, that wouldn't necessarily...

reflect on Trump per se.

I mean, you know, there's certainly

you roll your eyes at the idea that he had no idea about this.

So here's the problem.

Are they just using this on Cohen

and hoping that they're going to find something else?

You know what I mean?

I mean, Cohen is, I mean, let's be honest.

There's a few people that we said.

Look, he doesn't surround himself with the best people.

He surrounds himself with the worst people.

And the ones that we mentioned was Flynn.

Flynn.

Bannon.

Bannon.

Cohen.

Cohen.

Cohen.

Manafort.

Manafort.

And all of them, we've been right on all of those.

They're all gone.

It seems like we were right on them.

Yeah.

Getting rid of these guys is a really good thing because Cohen is, he's a bad guy.

He is really a bad guy.

Yeah, I mean, you know, look, he's the type of person.

Give me an example of this because the issue is not with him is not necessarily loyalty.

Oh,

he'll go to jail.

I think he will.

He'll be Susan McDougal.

The problem is he's just a really crappy, corrupt lawyer.

And this has been beneficial for Trump over the years.

As far as, you know, he's aggressive.

He's, he uses bullying tactics to get things done, to make deals.

That's been the way he does it.

And Trump likes that, that he doesn't necessarily have to be the guy who does that type of stuff.

The question is, if Cohen is a really competent lawyer, he can draw very bright lines around his activities that may verge into the questionable and keep his clients safe.

It's his job to keep his client safe.

But just to give you an idea of who this guy is,

remember the story where Ivanka Trump, in a long ago interview and book, said

she had been the victim of rape with Donald Trump.

Ivanka said that.

That's on the record.

It's not questioned.

She says she said it.

She later said that, look, that wasn't real.

I didn't mean rape, rape.

That's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about, you know, an emotional sort of disconnect.

And she came up with another kind of answer about it.

And so let's just take that at the word for a moment.

Because some people question whether that was true, but she's saying it.

She's saying it now.

Ivanka, the victim of this supposed rape, is saying it wasn't a rape.

So, I mean, there's nothing we can do about that.

She,

I think we should take her at her word.

So, the Daily Beast, who is

a terrible publication in many ways.

Many, many, many, many ways.

Yes.

Almost always.

Yes, in almost always, decided they were running a run.

Unless you're in hell.

Yeah.

Then they're a trusted source.

Yeah.

They decided they were going to run a story about Ivanka's quote about her being raped by Donald Trump.

Now, of course,

the context was going to be questionable because it's the Daily Beast, but Michael Cohn got wind of this and it was his gig to go in and stop the publication.

Now, what he said to her,

to the reporter who was going to write the story, was

threatened if you write a story that has Mr.

Trump's name in it, the word rape, I'm going to mess your life up.

tread very effing lightly because what I'm going to do to you is to is going to be effing disgusting.

He said this to a reporter on the record.

Questionable because it's just, and what are you doing?

You're calling names and you're being a bully.

But that's exactly what Trump wants out of that role.

Here's the part that's the problem.

He later on goes and says,

he says, legally,

there is no legal way to rape your wife.

Quote, you cannot rape your spouse.

There is very clear case law.

Now, despite, pass for a moment beyond the concept of how reprehensible this idea is that a woman, because she puts a wedding ring on, gives the man immunity to sexually assault her at will whenever he wants.

The concept is so incredibly reprehensible, it's hard to believe it was ever a factor in law going back hundreds and hundreds of years.

However, it was law in New York until 1984.

Now stop for a second.

It was until 1984.

In 1984, it was over too.

You couldn't rape your wife.

It was a big story.

And there were a lot of states going back.

Look, women couldn't vote.

There were slaves.

We've had a lot of really terrible laws in this country that eventually were overturned.

The idea that you could rape your wife was overturned in 1984.

Big story.

New York Times, it was a big thing.

Michael Cohen is a lawyer practicing law in the state of New York.

And he doesn't know that was overturned.

30 plus years later, and he still thinks it's the law.

That's great.

He's such a terrible attorney that there's almost no way if he did something wrong he actually was capable of drawing these lines about around donald trump and you might think okay during the you know the election they were on their toes the risk is there by all reports they didn't think they were actually going to win so if they didn't win there would be no cases there would be no legal recourse really going on

we wouldn't have known about any

of this we wouldn't have known about the meeting and trump tower we wouldn't have known about any of that stuff if he actually if he wound up losing but he wound up winning.

And you might think maybe they were kind of protective, but a shady LLC to pay a porn star $130,000 a week before the election, forget about

whether he did it right or not.

There's lots of questions on that, but it's reckless behavior.

Yeah, there's almost no way for him to have done it right.

Think about, right, and think about what this guy was doing in 1999.

or 2005 when he didn't think he was in the middle of a presidential campaign.

You know, again,

he may have protected Trump.

Trump may have had no idea of any of this, but the reason they get this,

the ability to raid Michael Cohen's office is because they have something, and it may be 20 years ago, but they have something that's so blatantly clear that he did something wrong.

This decision illegal analysis is many.

This is something that both left and right are saying that this is significant.

You just don't do this.

This is historic what happened.

And I'm afraid if they don't come out with something pretty damn quickly and they don't make it clear, this is not going to sit well with the American people.

Because I have to tell you, if you would go and arrest and break attorney client privileges, even with Barack Obama, if you would have done that and you, and it was a, it just felt like this is a never-ending investigation and it's just kind of slipping into all kinds of stuff.

And it looked like a fishing expedition.

I defend President Clinton.

You don't break attorney-client privilege unless it is of extraordinary circumstance.

So what is that circumstance?

And it pays off.

And unless it's something involving Cohen and the campaign finance or something he's done in his past, I mean,

if it involves the Russian thing, they don't even have any collusion

evidence on that.

There's nothing to back this up.

This is an investigation that probably probably should have ended a long time ago.

I mean, we haven't seen the results of it yet, of course.

I mean, and Cohen, again, in the middle of the time where Trump is saying to the public, I have no Russian connections, I have no Russian deals.

Michael Cohen, maybe completely on his own, is trying to close the deal of Trump Tower Moscow.

See, this is where it gets problematic.

Again, that's where it gets problematic.

If Michael Cohen is proven to be doing negotiations with Moscow for Trump Tower Moscow

at the same time.

There's a real problem here on, wait a minute, Mr.

President.

They'll say one had nothing to do with the other.

Yeah, but that's not, but that is absolutely from a guy who said, I'm not going to separate my business and

my presidency, I still have to stay in charge.

I still have to know what's going on.

That's why you do that, though.

There's no way.

Yeah, I know.

There's no way this guy didn't know that Moscow Trump Tower was being negotiated.

Come on.

There's no way.

There's no way.

It doesn't

completely implausible.

Now, Cohen had a lot of,

he had a lot of ability to investigate deals internationally.

It was one of his main roles within the organization.

So, I mean, it's not completely impossible, but the idea that

highly unlikely, right?

Highly unlikely.

That doesn't mean that there was collusion, by the way.

It just means that he wasn't telling the truth when he was talking about business deals in Russia.

Yeah.

That does not mean, however, that they've affected the election or anything like that.

Cohen could go to jail for a million reasons or be in trouble for a million reasons that have nothing to do that doesn't sully Donald Trump other than he worked with a scumbag attorney.

But that's already baked into the price of Donald Trump.

We all knew that.

We all knew that.

We all knew that.

So what's the new thing here?

Oh, his attorney's a scumbag and maybe doing illegal things.

Huh, ha.

Just from a a PR perspective, can you think of a worse move than calling up a reporter on the record, saying you can't rape your spouse, and associating your client with that?

With that point.

His on-the-record defense is you can't legally rape your spouse.

And you don't so much as Google it to make sure what you're saying is accurate.

It's been gone for 33 years.

I guarantee you could Google that and find the law in New York.

Yeah, it was a big story at the time.

So let's say that they do come back and say, okay, he

campaign finance, he broke the laws with campaign finance, he's going to jail, but they don't find anything that shows that Donald Trump was colluding with him on that.

Yeah.

Does that affect the president at all?

No, I don't think it does.

You know, no.

Because like you said, it's already been baked in.

We know about him.

We knew about him during the campaign.

And Cohen.

And we talked about it many times with a douchebag Cohen is.

Cohen is.

He's a bad guy.

And he's as close to a family member as they have in the organization.

So he's going to be very loyal, very protective.

And to this point, it's actually better for Michael Cohen if Donald Trump did give him the $130,000 for Stormy Daniels because Donald Trump is not limited for campaign contributions.

There's a normal limit of, what is it, $3,000 or $4,000

where Michael Cohen can't do that.

And it's seen as an in-kind contribution.

If you're donating money to someone to pay somebody off, I don't think he did it.

I don't think he did.

I don't think Donald Trump gave him the money.

I really don't.

Donald Trump is not the kind.

I mean, he didn't put his own money into

the campaign, really.

Oh, yeah, a little bit.

A little bit, but he was also doing, the campaign was paying for all of the stops at his hotels.

So he was making that money back.

He's just not the guy to do that.

It's actually worse for Cohen if Trump didn't.

pay him back.

Right.

And doesn't make a difference on Trump either way.

It's my point of loyalty.

It looks bad for Trump if he he gave $130,000 to a porn star, which is why they put it through an LLC.

That's why they put it through Michael Cohen.

I don't think his supporters will care.

Right, right.

But that's why they did it, right?

To protect Trump in the general election a week before the election, right?

That's absolutely clear.

And you could say that it might have been Michael Cohen who did it.

It's a dump payoff because nobody would have cared.

Probably not.

As we see now, nobody would have cared.

Nobody would have cared.

In fact, the story was already out there.

But we didn't elect the pastor in chief.

I mean, we already baked this in, too.

All right.

So

my point of view is, can I tell you something?

It really is.

I could walk outside and I I could shoot somebody in the street and nobody.

Well, and we talked about it at the time.

It really, he is that Teflon.

He is.

He is.

My point, though, is with loyalty, right?

Michael Cohen, by saying,

hey,

by even leaving it open that I got some of this money from Trump, would protect himself from going to prison.

And he's the one out there saying I didn't get the money from Trump.

No, he is.

He's exposing himself to the money.

Right.

You remember Susan McDougal.

Yeah.

I mean, she went to jail for the Clintons.

This guy will go to jail.

And I'm not saying that Trump did anything wrong, but he'll go to jail before he would turn anything.

I think so, too.

Yeah, he'll go to jail.

He's a loyal, loyal guy.

Pat Gray Unleashed on the Blaze Radio and TV networks coming up in just a moment.

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Glenn, back, Mercury.

Glenn, back.

You know, why do we all get up every day and and do what we do?

I do it because I know who you are.

I just want to, earlier today, we had Frank Luns on an hour number one, and he was, I kind of worried about him.

And apparently you did too.

I just got a note from Frank.

Glenn, I want to let you know the response I've received from your radio audience is incredible.

I've had more people email messages of encouragement than anything that I have done.

And they all reference the brutality of politics and how we all have to find a better way.

Music to my ears and to yours as well.

I get up every day because I know who you are.

We'll see you tonight at five o'clock and back here on the radio tomorrow.

Glenn, back.

Mercury.