12/6/17 - "A very move"? (McKay Coppins, Ben Shapiro, Kelly Shackelford & Tim Ballard join Glenn)

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love

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truth Glenn Back when is your capital really not the capital?

If you're the nation of Israel, this is not a ridiculous question.

When would we ever say Washington, D.C.

is not the capital of the United States?

No, it's Detroit.

No, it's not, no, it's not.

Even though their capital is Jerusalem, most of the world acts like it's not.

We seem to have no problem with people saying, no, I identify today as a black woman.

I identify today that the capital of Israel is in Tel Aviv.

Really?

Really?

The reason why is because we don't want to make the terrorists angry.

Today, President Trump is expected to announce his decision about whether or not to keep the American embassy in Tel Aviv.

Trump's intention is to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and relocate the embassy there.

Now, logistically, it's a move that makes sense.

It also conveniently is

the truth.

Symbolically, it's going to piss off

everybody who hates Israel and the Jews.

But guess what?

Do we base our policy on who hates the Jews?

I think this is

one of the bravest moves I've seen a president make, perhaps, since Ronald Reagan said it was an evil empire when he was talking about the Soviet Union.

He is standing up to the decades of bullying.

He is recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

The United States is sending a clear message that threats of violence by the Palestinians and others are not tolerated.

It's also a message that's being sent that official U.S.

policy should not be ignored.

So let's go back to a time when Bill Clinton was in office for a second.

It was

1995.

Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act.

Now, what is that?

That required the American Embassy to relocate from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Let me say this again.

It required the embassy to relocate to Jerusalem.

In that act, it states that Jerusalem should be undivided and

the recognized capital of Israel.

And on a side note,

how did this pass?

The act passed 93 to 5 in the Senate and 374 to 37 in the House.

The move can only be canceled if we overtly stop it every six months.

And that is what we've done every six months for the last 22 years.

The president has come out and said, you know, oh, geez, oh, was that supposed to happen?

You know,

I was busy in the bathroom and I just haven't had time to,

we need another six months.

It's a law that is 22 years late in being enacted.

And it's embarrassing that it has taken this long.

And it's a slap in the face to our our trusted ally.

It needed to be implemented then, it should have been done in 1948, and it certainly should be implemented now.

If Trump actually follows through on this, it's a brave move, and he deserves a lot of credit for it.

And if he does, Israel will finally be able to let everyone know that their capital is actually their capital.

It's Wednesday, December 6th.

You're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

So there was a

there's a new book out, The Wilderness, Deep Inside the Republican Party's combative, contentious, chaotic quest to take back the White House.

And out of that, the writer, McKay Coppins, has written an article, God's Plan for Mike Pence.

And if you just look through it, because it's from the Atlantic, the pictures, you know, make

Mike Pence look like, you know, he's an apostle or whatever.

But it is not a slam on

religious people.

It's just trying to understand

Mike Pence and what drives him.

How can he have two masters?

How can he be the guy who we all think Mike Pence is, but then

stomach as much as he has?

And it's a really fascinating look into Mike Pence,

and especially today

with

the president possibly

claiming, I'll believe it when I see it, but I think he's going to do it

today recognizing Jerusalem Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

So welcome to the program, McKay Coppins.

Thanks for having me.

You bet.

So, McKay, first let's let's talk a little bit about Israel and Jerusalem.

Does this surprise you?

Well, it's something that he campaigned on, Trump did, and it's something that I know a lot of people in his orbit have been claiming was coming.

But, you know, past presidential candidates have campaigned on this as well and then not followed through on it.

It's, you know, one of those eternal promises that is made to conservative Christians and conservative Jews in this country, and then it never ends up happening.

I still would,

frankly, be a little skeptical.

I think you're ⁇ I'll Believe It When I See It stance is the right one.

They've cautioned that this takes a long time.

Obviously, to build an embassy would take a long time.

But

if it ends up happening, it's certainly a victory for a lot of the conservatives who voted for Trump on this.

Is it a victory just to officially declare that it is the capital from the White House?

Sure.

I mean, yeah, that's more than has been done before.

Right.

I kind of look at it like the Bear Ears monument, that he can say whatever he wants and say, yeah, we declare, but until you've actually cemented it and there's just no turning back, as soon as you move the embassy, then it's more than Donald Trump.

Then it is the United States is on that course.

That's right.

That's why I think we have to wait and see if the embassy actually gets built or if actual tangible plans get announced.

And, you know, we just don't know yet.

Okay.

So let's talk a little bit about Mike Pence, because I think this kind of fits into

the way you look at Mike Pence.

And that is he's there because he believes that God works in mysterious ways.

And

maybe he's just supposed to, you know, stand up at some point if the president falls down.

Right.

This is the thing that I found really interesting about Mike Pence is that he is, by all accounts, and contrary to I think some liberal caricatures of him, a genuine man of faith.

Religion is at the core of his identity and it has been at least since college and probably even before that.

You know, he really is motivated by a desire to serve God and he thinks that he can do that in the political realm.

But, you know, it's also kind of tangled up in his own personal ambitions as well.

And so, you know, when Donald Trump came knocking last year, last spring after securing the Republican nomination and, you know, said, I want you to be my running mate, Mike Pence was kind of faced with a choice that millions of conservative Christians were faced with last year, which is, can we overlook the kind of,

you know, to put it politely,

flaws in this man's character, right?

Can we overlook this man's

character, his values, his perhaps lack of morality,

and still support him in pursuit of a broader and they would say more important policy agenda, political agenda?

And

Mike Pence made the decision that he could,

and so did, frankly, an overwhelming number of conservative Christians.

I think it's still an open question whether that

compromise, that kind of gamble will pay off for Mike Pence and for

the people who supported him.

I mean, they did, you know, people who voted for Trump

just because of the policy victories that they wanted to attain, they've gotten some things, right?

They've gotten a Supreme Court justice

who's a conservative.

Just today, like you said, the announcement about Jerusalem, that could be a big victory for them.

But at the same time, you know, every compromise has consequences.

And Mike Pence finds himself in the middle of this kind of swirling investigation over Russia.

And, you know, while he is, by all accounts, trying to stay above board, trying to keep

his hands clean of all of this, when you cozy up to somebody like Trump,

a lot of things can happen that you didn't expect.

So I think that's a fair way to put it.

So, would you say that your impression, because I just want to give you my impression.

I don't want to quote any conversations, but I was around Mike Pence during

the run-up

when it still was not clear that Donald Trump was going to be the candidate.

We're going to do the Indiana primary where Pence had endorsed Cruz.

Yeah, Cruz.

And, you know, my impression was at the time

in speaking to Mike Pence that he knew exactly who Donald Trump was, and it wasn't a guy that he had a lot of faith in, to put it mildly.

That is, I think, the anaccate impression.

He is not.

Yeah, No, Mike Pence was not on the Trump train.

He early in the, I mean, even remember when, remember when Trump announced the Muslim ban or the proposed Muslim ban in December of 2015, Pence came out in opposition to it.

He said that this is, you know, an affront to American values or something like that.

And he spoke out at other times during the primary.

My impression is that he was fairly clear-eyed about who Donald Trump was.

In fact, after this story came out, I haven't shared this yet, but after my profile was published yesterday, I got an email from somebody who was an Indiana delegate or was slated to be a delegate at the Republican National Convention from Indiana.

And when Trump won the nomination, this person decided that they couldn't show up to the convention.

And said that in the run-up to

during the primary, kind of

when it was still not clear whether Trump would win,

this person got a lot of phone calls and emails from people in Pence's inner circle who all said, Oh, yeah, the governor agrees with you.

Like, this is, you know, this is not great.

He shares

your concerns.

And then, you know, a few weeks later, it was announced that he would be the running mate.

So,

so let me ask you.

So, let me ask you about that.

Because you, in this interview, you spoke to his wife, and

you've done your homework here.

Do you believe that Pence

did this for his, as you said earlier, his political aspirations, or did he do this because he thought, I may,

you know, it may be,

you know,

God's will that somebody is standing in that room

that doesn't necessarily agree with him,

and I need to hold the line and

be there.

I actually think that's not, those two aren't mutually exclusive.

My impression from all the interviews that I've done, all the people I've talked to close to him, is that he got himself to a point, Pence did, where he believed that both, yes, he had political aspirations.

He's always believed that

he wanted to be president ever since he was in college.

But also, he believed he could do some good there, right?

And look, I mean, this is something that

all people struggle with.

I don't think that this is

uniquely a problem that Mike Pence has faced.

Everyone tries to reconcile their ambitions with their ideals, right, whether they're religious ideals or whatever else.

And I think that he's convinced himself that

being in the room next to Donald Trump,

having the president's ear, is a way to

to do good, to

promote an agenda that will help people, that will,

you know, protect other Christians, that will push the ball forward on issues that he cares about.

So, I think that

part of the reason he's been so loyal to Trump is because of that.

Back in a second, because I want to talk to McKay about his conversation with

Mrs.

Pence,

who had some things that

were quite frank

in the article.

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Glenn back.

Glenn back.

McKay Coppins, who has written a great story, God's Plan for Mike Pence.

In it, he tells the story of the Access Hollywood tape and what Mike Pence's wife said and what happened behind the scenes.

Can you just walk us through this, McKay?

Yeah, sure.

This is based on interviews with former campaign aides and

people close to the Pence's who are friends of the Pence's.

But so first of all, I should say that after Pence joined the ticket,

Trump made an effort to kind of convince Pence that beneath all the sort of made-for-TV bluster, Trumpian bravado, he was actually a good guy with faith in God.

Because he wanted Pence to, you know, feel comfortable on the ticket and feel like he was doing a good thing.

And in fact, on the night of the vice presidential debate, Trump left a voicemail letting Pence know that he'd just said a prayer for him, which is something that Pence found very moving and really loved.

So fast forward to the Axis Hollywood tape coming out.

And I'm told that this was really...

jarring experience for Mike Pence and in particular his wife.

One campaign aide told me that Karen Pence was disgusted by the video, and the former campaign aide said that she finds him reprehensible, just totally vile.

That's the direct quote.

Should have been quoting my wife.

And I think most women in the country are a lot of people.

Yeah, probably a lot of women at that moment.

Exactly.

So here's what's interesting, though, is you remember that kind of the 48 hours after that tape came out, it was just this moment of total upheaval in the campaign.

And, you know, Republicans were calling on Trump to drop out, and there was all kinds of chaos.

And

I report in this story that in the midst of all of that, Mike Pence privately made it clear to the Republican National Committee that he was ready to take Trump's place as the nominee.

And in fact, during an emergency meeting between Trump and his top advisors in the midst of all of this that weekend, Reince Priebus, who was then chairman of the RNC, actually said that

Pence and Condoleezza Rice were ready to step in to form the new GOP ticket.

Now, obviously that

didn't end up happening.

What happened?

Bannon.

Well yeah, no, actually, really,

you're right, because what happened is that

I'm told by one former campaign aid that they thought they were going to be able to convince Trump to drop out before the debate that was that Sunday night, the end of that weekend.

And instead,

Trump was defiant, which as he's often been, and he showed up and he brought the Clinton accusers, you remember this.

And by the end of that debate, had kind of turned things around and Republicans had stopped calling on him to drop out.

And by the next day, Pence was back out on the stump.

But the reason I think that that story is important and the reason I put it in the piece is that

it raises questions, especially in Trump's orbit, the people I've talked to, about

how long this loyalty will last from Pence.

So, you know, is Pence really willing to go down with the ship, so to speak?

I find it investigations continue.

I find it, McKay, very interesting that now they're starting to say, you know,

did Mike Pence actually know more than he said about Russia?

And the idea, you know,

I think Mike Pence is really smart, and I believe you're right on the direction you're going here.

And I think Mike is smart enough to see trouble and say, I'm staying way away from that to remain clean to be able to be the guy that can rise up behind.

Yeah, so that's, I think, a good point.

I don't know what's going to come out.

You know, he was the head of the transition when all this kind of trouble started, right?

But I do think that there, you know, obviously we'll see what happens and what information comes out.

But I do think that, yeah, Pence,

above everything else, is

careful.

He's very cautious, right?

I think he, even though he was head of the transition, I can easily see a scenario where he, you know, he was operating on a kind of don't ask, don't tell policy.

McKay Coppins, the article is God's Plan for Mike Pence.

More in a minute.

Glenn, back.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

Ben Shapiro is going to be joining us at the top of the hour.

Ben is going to have a lot to say about what President Trump is supposed to, or supposedly going to announce today, that the United States is recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Strangely, that's a big deal, a very big deal.

And also,

it appears as though, according to Think Progress, that the case for the people against the Bakers in Colorado

did not go well for them yesterday in the Supreme Court.

Kelly Shackelford has been there.

He was watching the case, and he's going to talk to us.

That's also next hour.

We're talking to McKay Coppins from The Atlantic, who wrote the article, God's Plan for Mike Pence.

One of the reasons I like McKay, and McKay's with us now, is he, unlike many mainstream reporters, I get the sense he

has a much more nuanced understanding of people of faith.

McKay,

you were on the Romney bus for

that campaign, were you not?

Yeah, I was.

And the only Mormon on the Romney bus was a reporter.

And I don't know if the other people knew that or not, but

you were constantly forced to endure

religious and Mormon jokes from the other members of the press.

Is that right?

That's true.

Although I wrote about this after the campaign, I didn't think it was necessarily

malevolent.

It was just kind of born out of ignorance for the most part.

People made a lot of Mormon jokes, Mormon underwear jokes.

But I will say by the end of that campaign, I think Mormonism had been demystified for a lot of those reporters and they came to respect it more.

Aaron Powell, that was one of the things I thought was interesting about your story about Pence, in that

I think to a lot of people who were conservative Christians and had a certain impression of Mike Pence, when the Trump stuff started happening, it surprised a lot of people.

It seemed like it was against what he stood for and what his belief system was.

You sort of explain that in here with the idea of servant leadership that he really

has kind of carried with him his entire life.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, so this is a biblical concept.

This was described to me by Mark Short, who

serves as the White House director of legislative affairs, but has known Mike Pence for a long time.

And what he told me was that this idea of servant leadership is, you know, it's from the Gospels,

basically modeled off Jesus, who, you know, washed his disciples' feet and preached that you had to be humbled before you could be great.

And as early as Pence's first

term as a congressman, he was instructing his staffers to have a servants' attitude when they dealt with constituents.

That

his attitude was, we're the servants and we're serving them and we should be humble and try to

try to help them as well as we can.

And but that and that attitude has kind of extended throughout his career.

When he became part of the GOP leadership in the House, he saw it as his job to be a servant to his fellow Republican congressmen and congresswomen.

And then when he decided to take the job as running mate, as Donald Trump's running mate, he believed his job was to be number two to Donald Trump, to serve Donald Trump.

Now,

a lot of people point to

some of the stuff that Pence does or says in defense of Trump as, you know,

how can a good Christian man possibly go out there and spin like this for Donald Trump?

But he doesn't see that as something that's out of step with

his view of faith and Christianity.

He thinks that he's meant to be a servant.

He's under Trump's authority, and that's his job.

So does that mean, in his view, that

I mean, you know, we're all servants, yes, but when there's unrighteous leadership, I mean, you know, you go back to

the Germans.

Is there a line?

I'm not suggesting that that would be the line that he would ever approach, but is there a is there a line?

Do you think he has a moral line with him where, you know, for instance, if, I mean, the word is, is that Trump is now starting to deny that that Access Hollywood tape was even him.

I mean, I can't imagine coming home to my wife, and if my wife

said what she did say when that came out, and I defended him afterwards, she would have a hard time stomaching it as I would.

But then if he started to deny, I know my wife would go, really?

Really?

How much farther are you going to go?

Right.

Right.

I mean, like, that is the question, right?

And this is why a lot of the people who have known Pence for a long time and who, frankly, have admired him for a long time on both sides of the aisle

are kind of alarmed by how far Pence has been willing to go because they say, look, I get that you have a job here.

I get that to a certain extent you're going to have to spin and apologize for and justify the president's actions, but

there must be some line you won't cross or else you can justify anything like that.

But this is where I think it gets into the broader question of

the rest of the conservative Christian community in this country, right?

I quoted or I cited a statistic from the Public Religion Research Institute that found that in 2011, only 30% of white evangelicals agreed with this statement that a public official could commit an act of immorality in his private life, but continue to serve ethically in his public life.

So only 30% of white evangelicals believe that.

Basically, they were saying character counts.

It matters, right?

Just for the record,

I'm still saying that.

Yeah, well, and there are still many who say that, but by 2016, 72% of white evangelicals believed that.

So now the majority of white evangelicals are saying, look,

somebody can be a bad person in their private life, but still be a good public servant, a good public official.

Now, you can debate that, but that is a sea change in evangelical and, frankly, political ethics among a lot of conservative people of faith.

Reading the piece, McKay,

I wound up kind of liking Mike Pence more and understanding him, I think, a lot more,

which was interesting, though we did not have time to get to the most damning thing in the article, which is when faced with

at his college,

when they come and they say, hey, do you guys have kegs?

He sells out the fraternity and shows them where the kegs are.

Is this accurate?

This comes from one of his frat brothers, who, by the way, still likes Mike Pence.

This wasn't like Cavendetta.

Yeah, he said that the dean showed up, and Pence led him straight to the kegs and said that, and yeah, kind of sold his frappets out.

I don't think I'll ever forgive him for that part of it, but other than that, it was a really interesting read.

It's God's Plan for Mike Pence from the Atlantic, and it's from McKay Coppins.

McKay, thank you so much.

Keep up the good work.

God bless.

Thanks, Glenn.

You follow McKay Coppins on Twitter at McKay Coppins, and we will tweet out the article at Glenn Beck and at World of Stew

from The Atlantic.

It's really interesting when it comes down to the, for instance, Jerusalem.

Why do you think Donald Trump is doing this?

It's interesting because

timing-wise, after reading that story about Pence from McKay, you get the sense that the Jerusalem thing is exactly why Mike Pence is there.

It's that type of thing that he says, you know what?

Sometimes I'm going to have to go on TV and I'm going to have to say things I don't believe.

Sometimes I'm going to have to defend things that I don't find defensible.

But in the end, what am I doing?

Am I doing the right thing?

Do we get Neil Gorsuch out of it?

Do we get Jerusalem as the capital of Israel out of it?

Do we get the embassy moved?

What else can we actually pull off?

Maybe we get some tax breaks and make this

the tax system a little bit more sensible or whatever he believes.

See, I don't think that Mike Pence, I could be wrong.

I don't think Mike Pence is in it for the tax breaks.

Yeah, I think it's more.

I think it is for the Supreme Court, for Jerusalem,

and big,

big,

important,

eternally important things, which is weird because

it's a double-edged sword.

You're allowing certain kinds of behaviors to be mainstreamed

because you're wanting to get these big eternal principle kind of things, but at the same time you're destroying other eternal principles.

So it's really strange.

It's interesting because it's a

we saw that in the audience throughout the election and that there were some people who really loved Trump from the very beginning and there were some people who always hated Trump and can never get on board with Trump.

But there was a big chunk in the middle who I think were very similar to the way Mike Pence is described in the story, which were, look, I

don't think I can, I don't like Trump.

He's not my guy.

However, you know,

this is a chance chance to get something done, and it's better than the alternative.

And, you know, we might only get three or four things out of this, but they're important things.

And as we said at the time, that's a respect, that's a respectable viewpoint.

If they move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, if they actually move it,

I think this is one of the biggest things to happen in my lifetime.

I mean, I think this is a gigantic

tectonic plate shift.

Yeah.

And

as we talked about, there's a lot to do there.

But this was, I believe, if it wasn't promise number one, it was in the top four promises that Ted Cruz made when he launched his run.

And I remember at the time we talked about it.

It's like, that's kind of a, I mean, it's not a sexy tax policy.

It's not a, you know, it was like.

He believed it.

He really believed it.

It was really important to him.

Yeah.

And he was one of very few candidates that would do it.

I would have absolutely not thought that Donald Trump would do this.

Never.

And admittedly, if he does it, that's going to be, I'm going to be very impressed by that.

But even take Trump out of it.

There's 16 other candidates.

One or two, maybe I would have believed would have actually followed through with this.

Maybe Rick Santorum.

Maybe Santorum.

Rick Santorum and Cruz, I think, are

I don't know of anybody who would have had to the, I mean, this takes enormous stones to do.

It has to be something that is really on top of your priority list, right?

You're going to, it's, it's a lot of capital you're

expending on something like this.

And do I think a lot of Americans, and we talked about that at the time, and callers made the same point.

Oh,

I mean, like, yeah, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

Who cares?

That's huge.

But it is there huge.

It is spiritually huge.

It is in a relationship internationally gigantic.

It's a big step.

I will tell you this.

I mean, as a person of faith,

it is a very big

move spiritually for us as a country.

Forget about Israel For America to take the stand and say, nope,

this is Israel.

We're their allies and this is their capital.

And we will stand alone if we have to to recognize it, I think will bless us.

It could give,

you know, it may not look like a blessing at first, but I think it will bless us and

possibly

give us more time

to work things out.

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Glenn back.

Glenn Back.

We have the gay wedding cake controversy that is in Supreme Court yesterday.

We're going to get an update on that.

We have Jerusalem update from Ben Shapiro.

But we also want to get to some pop culture stuff.

There are some amazing movies that are coming out.

Amazing movies.

The Finest Hour,

Winston Churchill.

Think of that one.

That looks unbelievable.

Yeah, I mean, I haven't really wanted to see any movies all year, but right now,

Star Wars is coming out next week.

This week is The Disaster Artist, which I'm really excited about.

We talked about it a little bit.

We can explain it later.

Finest Hour, as you pointed out, Molly's game, which is about an inside poker game, crazy real-life story that looks amazing.

And then the one about Getty.

Yeah,

all the money in the world, which looks really, really good.

Some good stuff coming out and some really good books as well.

We'll try to squeeze all that information in as the program continues Next.

Glenn, back.

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Love.

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Truth.

Glenn Back.

Time Magazine has just announced their person of the year.

The person

of the year.

Silence Breakers.

Yeah, I know.

It's a new boys band.

The silence breakers.

Silence breakers are the men and women who have finally come forward to talk about the sexual misconduct or assault they experienced at the hands of powerful people.

Now, I happen to agree that this is probably the biggest thing that has happened this year.

This really makes an impact, but it's not a person.

It's people of the year.

That's an event of the year.

That's a movement of the year.

It's not a person

of the year.

But that's a feud I've been having with Time for quite some time, and they don't seem to care.

Speaking up about assaults at the hands of Harvey Weinstein and others like him, Time claims these victims have been humbled and humanized, and been humbled and humanized

Hollywood.

They write.

Movie stars are supposedly nothing like you and me.

They're svelte, glamorous, self-possessed.

They wear dresses we can't afford and live in houses we can only dream of.

And yet, it turns out that in the most painful and personal ways, movie stars are more like you and me than we'll ever know.

No, I don't think this is

you think this has personalized them.

I don't know.

I didn't,

not one story has happened where I've thought, you know what?

They're just like me.

Well, that's because you're a white guy.

Yeah, and I can't relate to all of the white guy perpetrators.

This is not, this is not who we are.

I think it's in epidemic proportions wherever there is real power.

There is real power in Hollywood.

There is real power in DC.

There is real power in the financial sectors.

We're just getting started here.

It is a fitting homage by

Time given the past three months of non-stop allegations, but I have a problem with it.

Juanita Broderick and Paula Jones aren't mentioned by name in Times article.

So does this mean you're only a silence breaker if you claim sexual assault in the past three months?

Aren't these silence breakers, Juanita Broderick, weren't they the pioneers that did the hard thing and took it

in the face and took the lashes to set the stage for these silence breakers?

Apparently not.

Women have been speaking out for years against powerful people and those who abused them.

It's only now that we're actually listening to them and not saying, well, look at the way she was dressed.

There are many lessons to be learned from the silence breakers.

You're not alone.

Even movie stars experience ugly parts of life.

Don't be afraid to speak out.

If you experience assault of any kind, there's no shame in going to the police immediately.

It's the most powerful thing that you can do.

And as we've seen recently, the Court of Public Opinion is a very dangerous place.

An allegation doesn't immediately make you guilty from either direction.

So let's continue to hold up due process and ensure that justice grows and prevails for everyone.

It's Wednesday, December 6th.

You're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

Good friend of the program, Daily Wire host, and I think one of the most important men in the conservative movement today is Ben Shapiro.

He joins us now.

Are you up in New York, Ben?

Actually, no, I'm in L.A.

Yeah, well, sorry about that.

Not at all.

Ben, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about what the president is claiming he's going to do today,

and that is announce that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

If he does that, but he's not announcing that there is a new embassy that we're going to groundbreak on, does it matter and why?

So it does matter.

It would matter more if he moved the embassy.

The reason that it would matter more is because that's a permanent statement.

So him saying that Jerusalem is the eternal undivided capital of Israel, that's stuff that presidential candidates have said before.

The Senate itself voted 90-0 back in June that that was the case.

So a political statement by the president is important, but it's always revocable.

You could have a new president come in and say, well, you know, we don't necessarily believe what Trump believed, and maybe it's up for negotiation.

Yeah, I kind of believe it's...

If they lose the embassy, it's more permanent.

I think

it's, you know, Obama's bare ears monument.

The next guy comes in, and it's whatever he wants.

Yeah, I think that's right.

And I think that what I'm hearing from the White House is that the White House is serious about moving the embassy.

They're investigating sites right now, but they're going to have to get it done before the next election, obviously, because you can't expect a Democrat to actually fulfill promises that Democrats have been making for 50 years.

So

it's a big move.

It's a big announcement, and good for Trump for doing it.

But I would definitely like to see it made more permanent.

On the other hand, listen, the President of the United States is saying something that takes some moral courage to say in a time when people refuse to recognize both religious and historic reality on the ground.

And that is a grand and good thing.

It's definitely a gesture I think that's meaningful.

So, Ben, I know that you're a religious guy, and those who bless Israel will be blessed, and

those who curse Israel will be cursed.

I happen to believe that.

I believe that we were a country that was

founded in part by

our desire to restore Israel and to

bring Israel back.

I think we played a key role to that, and I've talked to scholars of the founders who disagreed with me at first and then went back after a year's worth of research and went, oh, crap, I think you're right.

So I think we were blessed because of that path.

I think we'll be blessed because of this.

Do you see it that way at all?

Yeah, 100%.

I mean, number one, I'm a religious Jew, so this means a lot to me as a Jew because Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish people.

I was explaining this this morning on Fox that

in order to understand the value of Jerusalem to Israel, you have to take Washington, D.C., and then invest it with godly power and multiply it by a thousand.

Washington, D.C.

was literally a place that we built on a swamp swamp because we didn't want it to be part of any state.

Jerusalem was built on a rock because God said so, right?

That's the reason Christians care about it.

It's the reason Muslims care about it.

And it's the reason Jews cared about it a thousand years before Christ.

So the idea that it's not the eternal capital is absurd.

As far as whether this is going to be a blessing, I think it'll be a blessing because one of the things politically, just in very practical terms that I think is necessary here is if you actually want a real peace negotiation between the Israelis and the Arabs, that has to be premised on some element of truth.

Israel is not going to give up Jerusalem.

Israel is not going to divide Jerusalem.

And as soon as the other side recognizes that, as soon as the Arabs recognize that, maybe they can actually have a negotiation based on reality.

Beyond that, one of the things that we're watching in the Middle East is something incredible right now, which is this unintended consequence of Obama's unbelievably crappy foreign policy, which is there is this new alliance and pretty strong alliance is now forming between Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia against the Iranians.

And for Trump to basically say, listen, I'm just going to get this Jerusalem thing off the table right now with the Israelis, and you're still going to have an alliance because it's more important for you to ally against Iran than smack the Jews about.

That's a ground shift in the nature of the relationship, and I think something very important.

So

what do you think are the ramifications of this?

Do you see any real ramifications?

Well, I think that the Palestinians will try to launch a terror wave, but that's also true in most days, and they lie.

I think that you'll see some regimes like Saudi Arabia and Jordan make mouth platitudes about how they oppose this, but I don't think they're actually going to do anything of any real consequence.

Turkey might try to

pipe in some more supplies to Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, which have been operating in a quasi-unity government for several years.

But

again, this is not the first wave of violence that's hit Israel,

not even with regard to Jerusalem.

I mean, I wrote an entire piece over at Daily Wire tracing the history of violence with regard to Jerusalem.

The reason that that the Muslim world doesn't want to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital is because they don't want to recognize Israel as existing.

I mean, Jerusalem is the heart of Israel.

If Jerusalem is not Jewish, then neither is Tel Aviv, neither is Yaffa, neither is any other Jewish city in Israel.

So

the recognition of Jerusalem that's here to stay, that it's Israeli territory, that may be an ugly truth

for a lot of anti-Semitic Muslims, but it is also a truth that is not going to change.

So as I was trying to look at this today and put this into perspective,

you know, as a lover of history, I look at this and I say, in my lifetime, born in 1964, there are very few things that I would say had real ramifications, eternal ramifications, big ramifications, like the fall of the Berlin Wall, the defeat of communism.

I believe this is one of the biggest events.

If they move the capital, I believe this is one of the biggest events of my lifetime.

Would you agree with that?

It certainly could be.

Yeah, it certainly could be.

I mean, if they move the embassy to Jerusalem, then it does set a new groundwork and it makes it difficult for the United States ever to back off of that.

It puts Israelis in charge of their own fate.

I mean, basically, Bill Clinton, since Oslo, too many presidents have held the fate of Israel's future in their hands as opposed to letting the Israelis hold their own future in their hands.

We really shouldn't be part of these negotiations in the first place.

I mean, these are bilateral negotiations.

The United States has very little to do with.

It's an important thing.

It's an important moral step because

the more that we recognize that, number one, we don't get to boss our allies around, and number two, the more that we recognize that Israel is a force for good for the region and we understand our own role in the world.

Our role in the world is as a freedom-loving country that helps out freedom-loving allies.

It's not as quote-unquote honest broker between freedom-loving countries and terrorism and tyranny-loving countries.

I think that that's going to set American foreign policy on a new tack that has been desperately needed for a long time.

So, can I be really

crass here and now look at this politically?

You know, the timing is really interesting to me.

And,

you know, out of all of the people on the stage, you know, out of the 17 candidates, I just did not think he was going to be the guy that would actually come through with this because this takes massive stones to do.

And you also have to really believe it.

And I don't think, I mean, while he has,

you know, some

Jewish influence in his family now, I don't think that's enough to do something like this.

Usually it comes from a religious zeal that

this is right and righteous.

So let me just float this by, Ben, and see what you think.

I think the president is in much more trouble than he wants to let on, or anybody on the right wants to let on.

Maybe not as much trouble as the left seems to hope for, but he's in real trouble.

And this gives him,

you can only pick the bones of the Gorsuch nomination for so long.

And this, again, puts him into a situation with a lot of groups, especially evangelical Christians, where you kind of put up with a lot of stuff

and kind of defend because you're like, look,

that has happened.

I mean, I don't know who else would have given us that.

And

it seems to me that it could be a political maneuver to shore up some real fight to the end of the battle supporters.

Am I being?

That's definitely a possibility.

No, I mean, I don't want to psychoanalyze the president because I think that that's a fool's errand.

But I also think that

the timing of it is interesting.

The truth is, I've never seen anything like the last two weeks have been so good for conservatives on policy.

I mean, everything from the tax cuts to the national park stuff to Jerusalem.

I mean, this is really like hardcore, good stuff stuff for conservatives.

And at the same time, the rhetoric that's coming out of the administration about things like Roy Moore are really a problem.

And I do agree with you that I think that there may be a political attempt to shore this up, but I will say that everyone that I know who surrounds the president, and I've gotten to know some members of the administration relatively well, everyone who surrounds the president does believe this stuff, the Jerusalem stuff, down to their bones.

I'm not talking about Jared Ivanka.

I'm talking about Vice President Pence.

Oh, yeah.

And just the people who are very close to the White House, this is stuff that they, like, one of the things that, you're right.

of the people on the stage who had pledged to do this, Trump was the person who I didn't trust the most.

But it does show for all the people who keep saying that

on the left, that the Republican Party is quasi-anti-Semitic and all of this nonsense.

The fact is that I think that Trump was not the only guy on the stage who actually would have done it.

I mean, the fact that he's done it, he gets the credit, obviously.

But I think Ted Cruz would have done it.

I think there's a good child, Marco Rubio, would have done it.

I think that there are a bunch of candidates on the stage who would have.

This has become a very strong issue for Republicans.

So in that sense, I think you're right.

It's one way of shoring up the base.

But, you know, I'm not going to detract from the president for doing the moral thing just because it's politically advantageous.

I don't want to trash.

In fact, I want to do the opposite.

I think if he does this...

Yeah, if he does this and he moves the embassy, it's one of the bravest moves I've seen probably since Ronald Reagan said that's an evil empire and needs to be destroyed.

I think that's right.

I think that's exactly right.

And I think that it's very similar in the way that the left has responded.

The international commotion.

Oh, this is going to be so terrible.

It's going to lead to World War III.

It's going to be a conflagration.

You know what's really going to happen?

Countries have interests in the world.

Saudi Arabia does not care that much about Jerusalem.

You know how I know that?

Because last week, the New York Times reported that Saudi Arabia was actually going to the Palestinians and telling them, you guys need to back off this Jerusalem thing and just cut a deal with Israel and be done here.

Saudi Arabia has no interest in this.

The Jordanian kingdom has no interest in this.

So the idea that they're all going to suddenly stand up on their hind legs because they're so mad that Trump says that Jerusalem is part of Israel, which it always has been, always will be.

You know, I think that that's a lot of leftist claptrap.

Ben Shabiro, thank you very much.

God bless.

Thanks a lot.

Editor-in-chief, dailywire.com.

2017.

Wow.

Could anything else have happened in 2017?

I mean, look at the history.

We're going to do, is it next week or the week after, we're going to be doing some shows on just a year in review?

Oh, my gosh.

I'm hesitant because at the end of 2016, I was like, oh, let's get this year over with, get to something else.

And then 2017 is happening.

I'm thinking the same thing, but maybe I shouldn't.

I know.

Be careful what you wish for.

So are you prepared for, you know, another repeat of this year or perhaps worse?

I mean, look at the disasters that happened in the United States.

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Glenn back.

Glenn back.

There are so many things going on in the world.

And, you know,

I'm doing a ton of reading right now.

I want to share my book list with you before Christmas.

If you know anybody,

I'm reading a lot of novels, but I'm also reading a lot of science stuff and history.

And I want to share some of those titles with you because there's some really good stuff that I've read recently.

But as I'm looking into science,

I am more optimistic about the future

and what is on the near horizon.

And when I say near horizon, next 15 to 18 years,

and it's game-changing stuff.

The medical advances that we're going to make by 2030.

Ray Kurzweil was right.

He told me this about 2003.

Glenn, just stay healthy until 2030, and medicine will take it from there.

And so you heard him say that and then completely ignored it?

I completely ignored it.

I thought it was easier to stay healthy.

But I think he's right.

I think he's right.

The stuff that I am reading about

medicine is remarkable.

And little things like, you know, the Apple Watch or the step, you know,

counters, the Fitbits, what is the next generation of that is remarkable.

You tie it together with some things, some apps that are coming out where you can take a picture of, say you go to a bar, somebody serves you a drink, you take a picture of it, it does a chemical analysis of the drink and tells you what's in it, if there's any drug in it or anything else.

But you can do that with food.

You know, everybody's taking pictures of their plates of food.

You do that.

It'll do a chemical breakdown.

It'll tell you exactly how many carbs, exactly how many calories.

When you tie that with your Fitbit,

that will start to get so much information about you that it will actually start to tell you, like, for instance, somebody, you know, Tim Ferriss decides to eat a donut.

He'll take a picture of that donut and it will not only tell him everything that's in it, but it'll tell him how it will affect his body and

give him time.

So it will say, eating that donut will remove three hours from your life.

Okay.

Him, it will probably say, you know,

no, it won't remove any time from your life, but it'll take extra to burn this off.

With somebody like me, it will say, you know, 500 years off your life if you eat that donut.

Because now they're starting to adapt it to your body.

And if you're working out, they're now getting so precise that if you are working out, the first 25 minutes of jogging actually adds five hours to your life.

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So I spend 30 minutes jogging after the first 25, I get 30 minutes added to my life.

But the first 25 are important.

That's going to change everything.

Glenn, back.

You're listening to the Glenn Beck program.

President and CEO of First Liberty Institute, Kelly Shackelford, a guy who

is watching and fighting some of the biggest battles for religious freedom in the country, was actually in the Supreme Court yesterday and heard the arguments

on both sides with the Supreme Court on the wedding case, the wedding cake case.

Kelly will give us a real quick recap of the case in case you don't know it out of Colorado and then tell us what happened.

Welcome to the program, Kelly.

Oh, happy to be on, Glenn.

So a real quick recap of the case for anybody who doesn't know what it is.

There's been a number of these people probably heard of, whether Florist or Baker or whatever.

We even have a case out of Oregon that a lot of people have heard about with two

bakers, this is Aaron and Melissa Klein, who were actually, because they came in, somebody who, they sold them baked goods, but then they said, we want you to do our wedding cake.

It was two women in that case.

And they said, we can't do that because of our religious beliefs, but we're happy to sell you anything else.

We're happy to send you just a few doors down to somebody who'll do that.

Next thing they knew, they were being prosecuted by the state of Oregon.

They've been fined $125,000.

Their business has been bankrupted, and they were ordered by the judge not to speak publicly their beliefs on this issue because it might be a further further violation.

That case is still going, so that's how we got involved in being very concerned about this case that was argued yesterday, which is Jack Phillips,

a baker from Denver, who very similar situation.

Two men came in, said, we'd like you to do a custom cake for us, just like our client.

And he said, look, I'll sell you anything off the shelf, anything I've got, but I can't customly make a cake because I'm expressing something and I have a faith belief about what marriage is and what God says, and it's a sacred union.

And so, you know, said he'd be happy to refer him or to sell him anything he had.

Now, Kelly, it's important to point out here that this guy has done this before, not just homosexuals.

It's not the deal.

He sells to anybody and anything, but he says, you know, when I have to actually do something, for instance, Halloween, I won't make any Halloween stuff because I don't I believe it's a you know affront to God and so it's it's not a gay thing with him no it's uh he he sells uh gladly like every one of these cases I've ever heard of the

the people sell to LGBT without question.

It's just when they are asked to participate in a ceremony that obviously is a sacred ceremony to most people, they say, well, wait, I can't express something because you're asking me to sort of express something that I can't express because I don't agree with that.

And that's where the rubber hits the road here.

And so in this case with Jack,

they basically, the state of Colorado

said that you're either going to have to stop doing wedding cakes or

you're going to have to make gay wedding cakes for people who ask you to make those.

And

he decided to,

while this is going on, he was also ordered, by the way, to train his people in the proper thinking, which includes his own family members, which that came up in the oral argument yesterday, too.

So it's really this whole thing is really creepy to anybody who gets freedom.

The idea of the government forcing citizens to express things that they not only don't agree with, but that violate their beliefs,

it's really sort of the ultimate of an attack on freedom.

And so

yesterday, you were sitting in the courtroom, and somebody from Think Progress

tweeted out after the arguments for the the people who were going after the baker.

Think progress tweeted out, this was horrible.

I I mean, they really dropped the ball.

It does not look good for our side.

That was according to Think Progress.

Did you get that impression yesterday?

Yeah, I mean, I went in, Glenn, thinking that there was probably a 10% chance that our side would win

because Justice Kennedy is the swingboat, and

he's been pretty consistent on all the LGBT cases.

He's written all the gay marriage decision,

the Lawrence v.

Texas decision, and we can go down the line.

And so everybody looks at him knowing he's probably going to be the swingboat who decides the case.

And well, yesterday he started out, seemed to be a little hostile.

He said to the Solicitor General of the United States, essentially, he said, look, if we were to give you a victory here, and then the result of this is

bakers are encouraged all over the country not to sell wedding cakes to gay people, would you be happy with that?

Like what you've created in this country?

It was really kind of a disdainful kind of question, and I thought, oh, boy, that's not a good start.

But then things started to turn when the other side, when the ACLU and the other side, the state of Colorado, got up and started arguing for this.

Because there is evidence in the record, like one of the commissioners who made this decision had some really religiously bigoted, anti-religious comments

in his statements.

And Justice Kennedy was clearly angry about that.

And a number of questions were asked about, and for instance, not only that, but

somebody went to some bakers and said, hey, I want you to do a cake in the shape of a Bible that says that, you know, homosexuality is wrong.

And they wouldn't do it.

And so he filed with this same commission.

And the commission said that, no, the bakers didn't have to do it in that case.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So, I mean, you've got just clear, you know, viewpoint discrimination.

They try to explain it, but it's really a lame excuse.

And so you put those together, and what you have here is a state, a commission that's clearly somewhat directly bigoted and hostile against people of faith who hold a different belief than they do on this issue.

And Justice Kennedy and a number of other justices really honed in on that.

And that's what I think probably made Think Progress a little concerned because Kennedy is a swingboat and he was obviously

he wasn't just perturbed.

He asked them, he said, have they renounced this statement?

And the attorney had to say no, it hasn't been formally renounced.

And he said, well, are you renouncing it now?

I mean,

he was really pressing the attorney for the state that had engaged in that type of religious discrimination in their speech before they punished Jack and his workplace.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: We're talking to Kelly Shackelford about

the case that's been seemingly in the news for a long time after many of it.

This one's a masterpiece, Cake.

One of them, an amazing moment, I thought, from the arguments yesterday was with Justice Sotomayor.

The commentary was, this is be a grave event, offense to the First Amendment, to compel a person that believes that marriage is sacred to give voice to a different view of marriage and require them to celebrate that marriage.

Justice Sotomayor's answer to that was, then don't participate in weddings.

Yeah.

And it's just this.

That's an incredible moment.

I mean, that is seemingly their answer that instead of

You know, just pragmatically, someone to come and get a cake and if they decided they couldn't get it from that baker to just go to another baker to try to compel every person who's in the situation to just pull out of all weddings no matter what.

Is this really their viewpoint of how this works?

Oh, yeah.

This is definitely their viewpoint.

And they don't even care that it's speech.

They think that the speech issues here are small compared to what they feel are the equality issues that are more important.

So the First Amendment essentially folds in their worldview and what they're trying to get the court to do.

And Justice Sodomayor clearly holds that opinion as well.

I mean, she filibustered a lot of the time, in fact, yesterday when the baker's lawyer was up arguing.

So

it's pretty, it's a striking, you know, you see these two big things, accommodation laws that were, they go way back to when, you know, we had people who were black who people would not allow them to have a hotel room or eat in a restaurant.

And that's why these laws were created,

to stop, you know, not serving people and not allowing them in your establishment because of their race.

And now it's being used in a way that I don't think anybody really ever had any idea that it would be used.

It's being used to try to force people to affirmatively engage in expression that they disagree with.

And that's just a bridge too far.

I think most people realize when you get to that point, wait a second.

Now we're having the government do something that I don't think any

American ever thought the government would be able to do, which is compel citizens to speak something against their conscience and their belief and their faith.

It does seem like that.

That seems incredible.

Kelly, it does seem like there were two arguments being made.

One was these people should have the, because of their religious freedom, should be able to do what they want based on their religion.

And the other was they're artists and

they shouldn't be forced to create art that they don't want to participate in.

It seemed like Kennedy was less positive on the art argument and more connected with the religious argument.

Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I think

the problem, the argument about it being art and therefore free speech and protected is

they didn't know where to draw that line.

What is art and what isn't art, right?

So is the

one of the jokes made by, I think it was Justice Kagan, was, what about a hairstylist?

Isn't that artistic?

What about a crucifix in a jar of urine?

Is that art?

I mean,

I think we've been down this road.

Yeah, and they didn't like the fact that it was going to be so wide open that they were scared that it would allow for all kinds of people to be exempt out of these laws when it came to baking a wedding cake or any other thing connected with the wedding, being the chauffeur, etc.

And so that was the concern on the one side.

And so I think what Kennedy honed in on, and what not only Kennedy, but Gorsuch and Roberts and a number of other

justices

was the fact of the intentional, the the very specific statement by the commissioner.

Now in fact, a couple of commissioners had statements that clearly showed they really had little respect for people's religious beliefs.

And in fact, that there was clear bias in their decision against Jack Phillips in this case.

And so that is a pretty narrow ruling if they ruled that way.

They would say, look, this is religious bigotry.

This was religious hostility.

We don't have government discriminating against people because of their personal dislike for people's religious beliefs, and they could simply overturn it on that, and they really sort of wouldn't solve the issue for future cases.

And then they would avoid a lot of these very tough issues that are sort of being battled over yesterday, but they were being done so with a court that's very fractured.

We kind of have four conservatives, four liberals, and one who's kind of jumping back and forth at this point.

And that obviously might change in the future if the president has a few more appointments.

But that also, I mean, it would

be a decent ruling.

I mean, it would still leave it murky, but it would be a decent ruling for anybody like this guy who's really truly on the record of this is what my belief is.

And I mean, I don't do Halloween stuff.

You know, and so it's quite clear,

you know, and that, you know, it's hard to judge how sincere people are on their religion.

However, it would be a step in the right direction that somebody who has a clear record of their faith, leave them alone, wouldn't it?

And yeah, and Glenn, I'll tell you that really the big sort of dividing point between the two sides as you

listen to the argument is one side was saying constantly that Jack Phillips denied these people

this wedding cake service because of who they were, because they were gay.

And Jack's side would say, no, it wasn't because of who they were.

It was because of the message that he was being told to send.

And the other side couldn't sort of separate that.

That essentially, if you don't agree with same-sex marriage, you're really discriminating against them because of who they are.

And again, Jack would say, no, I would sell to anybody.

It's just the message that you're asking me to create that I can't create.

And that's the difference that, I don't know, both sides were talking and nobody was convincing the other side.

But if everybody who has a different belief is all of a sudden discriminating, then

there's no right to disagree.

I mean, the government is now able to actually forcibly compel you.

In this case, again, one of the other disturbing things that Justice Gorsuch asked about, he said, I'm even concerned about your punishment, which is forcing Jack to train his employees, including his family members, in a belief he didn't agree with.

That's creepy on its own level.

And he asked the government about that.

And

that's where this sort of conflict goes, though, right?

If you don't have the right belief, they want to force you in line.

And

we're supposed to have the right to disagree.

Tolerance goes both ways.

Kelly, last question for you.

I think maybe the most important part of this was Justice

Gorsuch's stand against wedding cakes generally.

He said, I've yet to have a wedding cake that I would say tastes great.

Do you agree with that analysis?

Because I think I do.

Yeah,

he was making the point that most of the wedding cakes are, the reason they're so expensive is not that they taste great.

It's not that you're still in a

history.

Kelly, I've just got about 10 seconds left.

When are we expecting any kind of decision on this?

Well, normally we would expect it quicker, but most people are guessing because this is so controversial, they typically will wait till the very end of their term, which would be June 27th, to release that.

That

Okay, thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

God bless.

Oh, thank you.

Kelly Shackelford, president and CEO of First Liberty Institute.

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Glenn back.

Glenn back.

Welcome to the program.

A lot, a lot yet to discuss.

We have Tim Ballard in in just a minute.

He's going to give us an update on

the Nazarene Fund and some of the missions that we are starting and some of the things that we're doing right now, saving people in the Middle East.

It's a remarkable story.

Stick around for that.

And

what you can do with pots.

Yes, urgent news.

Love.

Courage.

Truth.

Glenn Beck.

Every night during the 2014 Winter Olympics in Russia and Sochi, Dr.

R waited for delivery of the list.

The list contained the name of Russian athletes so elite and on the top of their sport sport that they had to cheat by taking steroids.

And just after midnight, a secret signal told Dr.

R it was time to go to room 124.

Secret room built by the Russians attached to room 125, the gold room.

Not where the Olympic gold medals were stored.

This was

a liquid gold storage room.

This was the Olympics urine sample lab.

So once Dr.

R was in place, another Russian official official in the gold room passed urine samples through a secret hole in the wall.

He obviously had to be good aim, but once he calibrated, steady stream of urine,

I mean, this is sample, mind you, flowed through the wall into the other room to Dr.

R.

Then because these were special Swiss-engineered urine sample bottles, Dr.

R passed them to a Russian FSB officer who

whisked them,

almost said whisked them, whisked them to a secret building nearby where the tamper-proof bottle caps were completely tampered with.

A few hours later, the bottles were returned to Dr.

R with the caps magically loosened.

Now Dr.

R got to work and emptied the bottles.

He cleaned them, replaced them with non-steroid urine, and the bottles were slipped back through the hole in the wall to room 25.

I mean, this is crazy.

Vladimir Putin was behind this.

I mean, they were cool with this.

It was a way for him to have his cake and eat it too, hosting the Olympics and winning 33 medals, a third of which were won by Russian athletes who were part of this elaborate doping program where you're peeing through the wall.

All fun and games until the whistleblowers show up, one of whom was Dr.

R.

He blew the tamper-proof lid off of Russia's doping scheme.

And yesterday, for the first time in its history, the International Olympic Committee banned Russia from participating in the 2018 Games in South Korea.

Putin says, what a surprise, U.S.

conspiracy in retaliation for alleged Russian interference in our election.

Yeah, I don't think America cares that much about the Winter Olympics, Vlad.

I just don't.

If I were in the Olympic Committee, I would look into joining the witness protection program.

However, like Dr.

R already has.

He is currently living in an undisclosed location here in the u.s

if you have to go into a witness protection program because you helped vladimir putin's people pee through a wall what won't this guy kill you for

it's wednesday december 6th you're listening to the glenn beck program tim ballard is here

tim's world is a little upside down wouldn't you say it is, yeah.

Have you peed through any walls lately?

Not lately.

Not lately.

Tim Ballard is the founder and CEO of Operation Underground Railroad.

He serves as

OUR's jump team commander for rescue operations.

He has spent over a decade working as a special agent for the Department of Homeland Security.

He was assigned to the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, deployed undercover,

worked for the U.S.

Child Sex Tourism Jump Team.

He has dedicated his life now to saving children and saving slaves all around the world.

We have also just named him the chairman of the Nazarene Fund.

And so now his team and our team are working together to not only finish what we started in Syria and Iraq, where he's got some amazing news for us,

but also

to expand now into Africa, northern Africa in particular.

So we are going to take this on globally.

Welcome, Tim.

Thank you.

Great to be here.

Yeah.

So

tell me what this means for the Nazarene Fund.

Where's the Nazarene Fund,

where are we going?

I think you said it's global now

with still an emphasis on the Middle East and with an emphasis on the Christian communities there that are continuously being persecuted in different ways.

It doesn't matter if, you know, for example, we know that the Nazarene Fund did an amazing job moving thousands of people and families out as ISIS was rolling in.

But not all of them got out.

And even though ISIS has been pushed out of many of those regions, they took some of those people with them.

Thousands of those people.

Children are stuck with them.

We just rescued a three-year-old girl who was used as a sex slave.

That's right.

Two weeks ago.

Rescued a three-year-old girl who's used as a sex slave.

And she was a toy because she was a Christian.

That's right.

These kids, if they're Christian, they are seen as

animals, as subhumans, and they'll do anything they want to them.

And they are sex slaves, and there's thousands of these kids, these Christian Enyazidi kids, who are stuck, and we are going in and getting them out.

And the wives and the mothers are there, and many times the

moms have to watch their children be abused, and their children have to watch mom being abused.

It's the most horrifying thing.

Several times.

It's the most horrifying thing we could dream up.

So,

you know, you say that, and then

I'm going to turn the corner into something that is even darker

than that, I think.

Maybe not, because these people die right away.

But

we were alerted about a year ago at the Nazarene Fund, and we were presented evidence that there is organ trafficking going on, that

one way for the radicals to make money is to capture Christians and harvest them for organs.

And we couldn't believe it.

We were presented with videotape.

That is just horrifying.

Your team and our team went and

verified the location that this did happen at this location.

We couldn't find any of the people.

Can you tell us a little bit about the organ harvesting thing that's now happening?

It is horrifying.

Like you said,

I didn't think things could get darker than

sex slavery.

And I'm not trying to compare the two, but this is its own kind of unique darkness.

And these guys need to make money.

They are trying to make money, and they'll exploit and do anything they can.

And it is a big market to get organs, particularly, you know, like pediatric hearts are very hard to come by.

And they have these kids, and they say, we're going to do it.

And they're doing it.

We can't reveal details, but we have guys on the ground right now.

Can you talk about what's going to happen in January?

We will have a report in January that we're working on right now with the intel that we're getting that will,

I think, will blow your mind what's going on.

We're tapping into things that we didn't

were surprised by.

We knew it existed.

We didn't think it was this big.

But this is a very real market, and

we're getting in, getting the intel, working with the authorities.

Will you at that time

or not, will you be able to

mention the names of the countries that are involved, or do we have to keep that quiet?

Right now it has to be quiet.

By the end of January, we'll make a determination of what we can show, but

we're planning footage.

We're planning to show your audience footage of what this is and what is really happening.

And the reason why we wouldn't tell you what countries are involved is

because

we would want to be able to go in and infiltrate and shut this down.

But you would be shocked

at

you'd be shocked.

You'd be shocked if it turns out to be accurate.

Does it look like it's turning out to be?

It looks like it's very accurate.

Yes.

Any idea how many people are involved in this?

I mean, how many, do they just go and buy these kids on the open market?

Or are they just how many are...

So we estimate about 6,000 people, a lot of kids, that did not make it out, that ISIS and or other criminal organizations in the region got a hold of.

And these are the ones we're looking for, and these are the ones that are currently being threatened to be sold in the organ harvesting market or the sex slavery market.

So we're talking, it's in the thousands of people who are stuck, these Christian minorities, these Yazidi minority groups.

And so there's so much money to be made there for these dark, dark people.

So, Tim, one of the things that I've always loved about Operation Underground Railroad is that you don't just go get them.

The aftercare is so important.

You're not going to be able.

When we were in Mexico,

the things that these women told me that they had gone through for a decade, a decade, there is no way to heal on your own.

And as I talked to them in one of the safe houses, in one of the places that you fund that is,

you know, doing rehabilitation, doing counseling, getting them back into school.

It is totally transforming these people.

How are we doing in the Middle East on these children that were given as gifts to

people?

And after they watched possibly their mom, but definitely their dad, be beheaded for Christ?

The aftercare part in the Middle East is just like with OUR, same thing with Nazarene Fund.

It is paramount.

We have amazing partners.

I know you've met a lot of those partners already.

It's a different kind of dynamic where aftercare is not seen as a culturally accepted thing

in those regions, which is so sad.

So a lot of our aftercare has to be almost secretive.

So

there was a

video from the Nazarene Fund where we had just captured, I don't know if you saw this one, we had just captured a woman

and she was

out in the middle of nowhere on this road where we made the transfer to her family.

Do you see this one?

Yes, yes.

And you saw the women just grab on to her and she just broke down.

But it was only women, really, that were there to meet her.

And

I thought,

what happens in that culture to these women who were raped?

I mean,

can they get back?

They can, and

we have to be creative.

That's the thing with that part of the restoration.

We have a girl we're helping right now.

She was passed around at least to 18 different ISIS operators who each of them raped her.

15 years old.

She ended up pregnant.

We got her out, got her back, and there was one family member that said,

we'll take you, but not that baby.

And so then her family rejected her because she was pregnant with an ISIS

baby.

And so we got creative and found a different solution that we can't reveal.

And that's what it is.

It's about being creative on the ground.

Our guys on the ground are just unbelievable.

They're so connected.

They're foreign nationals.

You know, they know the culture.

They know the whole dynamic there.

So we're able to be creative and get these kids the care they need in the culture that they live in.

These are really brave Christians and one Jew that I know of that are, I mean,

they're caught doing this.

And we've already lost two people

on our jump team over in the Middle East.

They were captured by ISIS and killed by ISIS trying to rescue, going to go back in and rescue more.

These guys are remarkable and marked for death if their identities are.

These guys, I work with them.

They are willing to die.

They are willing to die to liberate these persecuted people.

And it's just an honor for me me to even stand in the same room and meet with these people who no one will ever know and their faces will never be seen by anybody.

We put a,

when we made the announcement that we were partnering with Tim and he was going to be the new CEO, we did so because

he has connections, governmental connections all over the world.

And we have watched his organization and we feel that time is of the essence in the Middle East.

And so we put a goal together of raising in the next 12 months $25 million.

$25 million is a lot of money.

But as we have seen with the Nazarene Fund, it can go a long, long way.

What does the time look like?

And what are we up against?

Well,

the window is small.

I mean, we've talked about this.

Things change so fast.

Even though ISIS is gone, people don't understand.

Now, Iran is there.

Exactly.

There's a vacuum always, and someone fills it.

And when they fill it, the Christians are always the target.

It doesn't matter whose comes in.

They're always the target.

They always need us to support.

They need us to rescue, to restore, to rebuild.

And that's what we're here to do.

And it's not just the people, that's the most important part, but the heritage.

I mean, this is Christian history that's being, the ISIS is trying to destroy.

I was just talking to Rudy, and he said that part of our new goal goal is as we're doing all this to document the all of the you know the relics and everything else so we know and have documented footage and coverage of everything so we know exactly what it was and where it was in case it's destroyed absolutely like for example there's a prophet in the old testament nahum who in al-kash has his tomb and isis was trying to destroy it this brave priest took the bones of this of this you know old testament prophet and hid it in the desert and these are the things we're we're working on, too, to help restore all this.

Now that ISIS is gone and they've tried to destroy the Christian narrative, acting as though it never happened, that's part of this.

A lot of these, some of these people want to go back to their Christian communities, and we're going to help them, those who want to go back, to bring them back into safety and help rebuild.

This is an important story.

This story touches all of us, and we can't let it

fall off the tracks.

This is something that I believe you will absolutely be blessed for

if you participate.

And participating can just mean prayer power, prayer coverage.

Boy, these guys need the prayer coverage.

The prayers for inspiration on where to go, where to turn, been with them, where it's like,

no, we're not supposed to move forward.

We have to turn around and go another direction.

With just on promptings,

and it has saved lives and freed people.

But so it can go from there to, you know, $5 a month.

Abraham Lincoln is on the $5 bill, the ultimate abolitionist.

Well, maybe Ben Franklin was probably a bigger abolitionist.

So if you have a Franklin or a Lincoln,

but you could make a monthly donation to the Nazarene Fund, the NazareneFund.org, the Nazarenefund.org.

And let's do some good together.

Tim, thank you.

Thank you, Glenn.

We have some footage and things that we're going to show on TV this afternoon.

Yes.

It's going to be good.

So, yeah, we're going to show you some stuff and have a little more of a conversation today on TV at 5 o'clock, only on the Blaze TV.

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Glenn back.

Glenn back.

I'm just sitting here.

We're talking off the air, and Tim is going to join me for television today, but we don't have time right now, but you have to tell this story on television.

I I love talking to you because

you live a superhero's life.

You live an action-adventure life, you know, and

the changes that have, the updates from you are remarkable.

So anybody who had been following OUR's stuff, they did

a big sting in Haiti.

And everybody said, don't do it.

Don't do it.

They're corrupt.

Well, there's an update on this.

And it's remarkable when you actually

know people's history and you ask them to stand up and you can inspire them with their own history which you did in this example and you have to hear it today it's amazing what happens i mean you just i mean are you ever just in awe and like because i really believe and i know you'll laugh at me they're gonna believe they're gonna they're gonna make a statue of you someday they really will you're you are you are a

no no no you are you're a you're a You're a modern-day Bonhoeffer, or I don't know what you are,

but you're a true hero.

They're going to make a statue of you someday.

Are you

ever look back and go, look what I'm involved in?

You know, it's funny.

Yeah, we talk about,

when you're in the moment, you don't even recognize what's going on.

And then when you sit back and tell the story, you're like, look what the Lord did.

Like, it's miracles.

They're miracles.

And you feel like

we don't deserve any of the credit because the Lord opens these doors and we say what we say.

And then boom, things move.

All right, so five o'clock today on the Blaze TV.

You're going to see some of these miracles here, some of these miracles from thenazarenefund.org.

Join us.

Be an abolitionist and help us rescue those that are

in chains.

Glenn back.

This is the Glenn Beck program.

What do you mean, what a

typical backing out?

I am not backing out of this.

I am not backing out of this.

Welcome to the program.

A lot to talk about.

Pat's joining us.

Pat, what do you have in your plate today you want to talk about?

Probably the Jerusalem situation.

Yeah.

Okay.

And

we talked about a little cleanup on the Roy Moore thing.

Yeah, we talked a lot about the Jerusalem thing.

It's a big deal.

I mean, it's a huge deal.

It's huge.

Yeah.

It's surprising me.

Yeah, what's next?

Are they going to declare Rome the capital of Italy?

London is the capital of England.

What is next with this group of people?

I mean,

Jerusalem, the capital of Israel.

You can't give a country its autonomy to name its own capital.

You can't do that.

You cannot do that.

That is not going to happen in my society.

I'll tell you that.

I love these people who are saying that Middle East peace is at stake here.

I mean, it didn't bring peace to the Middle East by not naming it the capital.

Fair point.

Let's try this.

Very good point.

Let's try this.

All right.

So, yesterday at the end of the program, I mentioned

because there's a disturbing story, Stew, on Pop-Tarts.

Now, you asked me that just as I put a piece of Pat's wife's cookies in my mouth.

Chocolate ginger.

What is it, Pat?

Chocolate, ginger, cinnamon.

It's delicious, or so I'm told.

I knew what it was.

I just needed to finish chewing.

Okay, so

Pop-Tarts alerted police about an Illinois man who spreads mustard on his Pop-Tarts.

Okay, what kind of Pop-Tart is it?

That's crazy.

It is Dunkin' Donuts vanilla latte.

Vanilla latte.

Now, I didn't know that existed.

I didn't either.

But we have it, and we have some ketchup.

So, Pat,

you would never put mustard or ketchup on a Pop-Tart.

Pop-Tarts actually said, they called the, they said, if there's a local police that will handle this.

And one of the local police actually responded and said, we're on it.

It's crazy.

Mustard refused to do it.

So Pop-Tarts was not pleased with

Pop-Tarts.

Says that's an abomination, as Pop-Tarts should say.

Now, I have

a vanilla latte.

That seems to be a lot of savory mix here.

Give me the other plate, will you?

So, I have the other plate.

I'm not losing that cookie, though.

Yeah, I know.

It's delicious because I'm going to give you something that nobody in my family knows.

I mean, my family does, but my children in everybody's like, Dad, what are you doing?

Are you kidding me?

Everybody should know this.

And I thought everybody did.

Okay, I have the mustard on it.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Pop-tart.

Tasting up.

That is a weird combination of flavors, I'll tell you that.

I mean, wow, it's not horrible.

It's not horrible.

It gives you kind of that taste of mustard and then softens it with the sweetness.

I mean, I would never choose.

First of all, I would never choose a vanilla latte pop-tart.

I mean, when you have s'mores, why would you do something like that?

I have to tell you, I just opened up a pop-tart.

I've never even seen these.

Unfrosted pop-tarts.

Unfrosted pop-tarts.

That's ridiculous.

That's another abomination.

It really is.

Okay, so I just put some.

Now, this is not terrible.

Really?

It's weird, but it's not.

Let me touch that piece right there that you broke up.

Because

it looks interesting.

All right, so now this is, well, everyone, you're actually eating that.

Yeah.

You see what I'm saying?

You get that little burst of bitter, but then it softens it pretty quickly with the sweetness.

It's not horrific.

It's not terrible.

In fact,

I kind of like it.

Shut up.

I kind of like it.

I can see where that might become a little bit addictive.

No way.

That's an interesting flavor combination.

It is.

There's something about.

Oh, this just looks horrible.

It does look horrible.

I think the police should stand down.

Yeah.

I was with it.

I was almost like, I'm the small government guy, but maybe in this case, government should step in.

No.

Maybe not.

Really?

No, government should stand in.

Glenn is not on board with our.

Gosh, that's bad.

I like it.

I like that whole thing.

That's good.

Would I do it on my own at my home?

I don't think so, but I think I would now.

I'm not opposed to it.

No way.

That's an interesting.

Now, what are you doing with the artist?

So now listen.

This is, I can't believe nobody does this.

What are you doing?

I am putting butter on toasted Pop-Tarts.

Oh, I've never heard of that.

Really?

You've never seen that.

You've never seen it.

I don't understand it.

How can you not do it?

How does this not occur occur to people?

It's like a toasted

piece of toast I would always put butter on, right?

Isn't the Pop-Tart bad enough for you without buttering it, too?

Wait.

Fair point.

First of all, if you're looking for health, you're not looking at a Pop-Tart.

Nobody's reading the side of the box of Pop-Tarts going, well, I don't know.

What does this actually contain?

Okay.

Now you want something.

Then you toast it after you butter it?

No, you toast it first.

Oh.

Okay.

Now,

I want you.

I mean, it smells amazing.

This is, I mean, you will never eat a Pop-Tart.

You will never eat a Pop-Tart normal again.

You're quote-unquote normal.

Okay.

Yeah, who are you to say what's normal among Pop-Tarts?

Your Pop-Tart normative standards.

No.

All right.

It's very greasy.

Yeah.

No, it's not.

It's buttery.

Buttery.

That definitely adds a little je sequie, if you will.

I feel like you almost have to eat it upside down to get any butter in it.

Yeah, well, I kind of rush because

you should, I mean, you should have good, two good, healthy pats of butter

on each one.

You know, I'm just saying.

I mean,

again, it has sort of the savory thing going on.

And you have to make sure that you're getting the

edges of the Pop-Tart that does not have any of the fruity goodness in it.

Is this another Glenn Beck holiday treat?

Death Trap.

Like the all-cream and chocolate

hot cocoa.

Oh, that's phenomenal.

Or those cheesy mashed potatoes that are 90% cheese.

I'm just going to put a little mustard on mine just to see.

Oh, come on, man.

Mustard and butter.

Don't you think?

We got to try it.

We got to try it.

Yeah.

What's that one?

The chocolate one?

It's pretty good.

This is a butter one.

I like the butter ones.

Come on.

Somebody.

Come on.

Let's be honest, the star here is the mustard.

Now, I had an idea with, because I like, this is what I like to do with it.

Tell me, this is not the best Pop-Tart you've ever eaten.

That's good.

I liked them both.

I liked it both ways, with the butter and the mustard.

The butter.

See, now you've destroyed all credibility by saying you.

You like it with the mustard.

I want people to try it.

I challenge you to try it.

It's good.

We like our audience.

It shows you how open-minded I am.

Look at that.

All right.

Why do we have ice cream in here?

Well, this is my.

I mean, I don't, don't get me wrong.

I am totally fine.

I should never,

we should live in a world where I don't have to ask, why do we have ice cream in here?

Should always be in here.

That's a smart way to live.

I will give you that.

So I had a little invention here that I, the way I like to eat Pop-Tarts, and they're heating up now.

Got to be hot Pop-Tarts.

But hot Pop-Tarts functioning as the sandwich of an ice cream sandwich.

So it's like essentially the cookie.

Have you done that before?

Just think of it now.

Oh, no.

This is this is this is high tech.

Because then you get.

So this is like a breakfast dessert.

Right.

Like you're going to, you start it out, I think, with the normal Pop-Tart, right?

Yeah.

That gets you through the morning part of the Pop-Tart breakfast.

And that, of course, has the butter on it.

Then you move to the lunch part where you put the mustard on top.

And then for the dinner dessert part, you go right to the ice cream in the middle of two hot Pop-Tarts.

All this is like a little bit of toast and some strawberries and

maybe a little, no,

maybe just a little bit of cream over your strawberries.

All right.

As is our cooking pat, did you have to do that?

Ice cream sounds healthy.

It's horrible.

If I came to you with just a little bit of milk

and

some fruit in a bowl

and then

have a little bit of toast or pie crust uh would you say do you think are all of our wives would be like that you're eating right

yes i think so i think so

um as these are uh finishing up pat did you you had one other the roy more stuff where were you on that oh well did you see what his spokesman uh said yesterday that uh

um

she was being told that there's a lot of accusers there there's a lot of smoke here there must be fire and she called them criminals who were seeking revenge and then she argued that there were plenty of, quote, non-accusers that

did not accuse the judge of any sexual misconduct.

So

there's a group of non-accusers that didn't accuse him.

So your defense is that not every single woman in Alabama was sexually assaulted by Roy Moore?

Is that now the Roy Moore defense?

That's not a compelling defense to me.

I'm starting to turn on this.

John Wayne Gacy, not all children were killed.

Right.

Yes.

You want to cut that here?

Here's a knife.

Why don't you cut that?

I'm starting to.

I'm worried that there's something going on there.

I think so, too.

Weird.

His story has changed several times.

We just talked about that yesterday, that his story is now changing, and it makes me nervous.

It's like, wait a minute.

Very nervous.

You said you knew these people.

Now you're saying you don't know these people.

You've never heard of them.

By the way, very weird.

Learned something about.

Thank you.

I learned something about toasters.

Yes.

You know what the numbers are on toasters?

The numbers are?

Yeah, it's the

amount of doneness.

Right?

Right?

That's what I always thought.

Yeah.

It's not that it's pretty good, Stu.

It's really good, right?

I think it's pretty good.

What kind of Pop-Tart is this?

You either got chocolate chip or s'mores.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I really love them.

That's a good ice cream sandwich.

All right.

So, you know what the numbers are?

The number of doneness.

No.

No.

Okay.

Minutes.

What?

Minutes.

What?

No, it's a common.

Yeah, it is.

Yes, it is.

It's a common.

Yes, it is.

It's a common...

You know what?

We need Google Home.

I want to put Google Home in here.

This comes from...

Because

I might have my hands full with...

you know, buttery goodness with ice cream, and I can't go to type it in myself.

So I would just want to say, Google,

what are the numbers on toasters for?

It's the number of minutes.

It is, really.

This comes from the menu.

Did you guys want to try mustard on his Pop-Tarts?

I did try it.

I didn't like it.

Oh, that's right.

I have the courage to go against the grain in this room.

There's no way if you turn it up to 10, that that stays in there for 10 minutes.

I don't know.

I've never tried it for 10, and I always just, if I start to see it smoke, I just kind of push it up.

So I always thought it was the number of

done as two.

You know,

I want my

toast toast five dark.

Right.

Five dark.

No, that's not what it is.

It's not what it is.

Now, how do you make this discovery?

I made this discovery, and I think it was through Matthew, who said he was watching a documentary on

common household items and kitchen things that

are being misused or misunderstood.

And the number one thing was the numbers on the toaster.

Wow.

Everybody's got some extra time on their hands.

Well, you have it.

I'm looking on mental flaws.

What do those numbers on your toaster mean?

Telling you.

Suggested the numbers directly relate to the time a piece of bread was in the machine.

That would make sense.

The number five for five minutes.

Sadly, that's since been disproved.

And the inevitable answer here

is that the meaning of the numbers depends on the kind of toaster you have.

Set timer for one minute.

Okay, because that was like a.

He said it was like a GE expert or something like that.

Go go.

Okay, so maybe with a certain brand, it does mean that.

I'm setting it for one minute, and this is what?

Cuisinart?

I don't know what brand it is.

Okay, so I've said it on, I put it on one number of dumbness.

I'm counting down.

We're down to 55 seconds.

No show.

No show is giving you this today.

No, and there might be a good reason for that.

No show.

You could listen all around, and everyone will, you know, let's talk Israel, whatever.

We're telling you about the numbers.

This is useful information.

You can use a Christmas party.

I don't have my hand on it.

His hand was a little too close to the power.

What's the time?

Remove your hand.

Remove your hand.

What's the time?

30 seconds remain.

You will hear.

Oh, man.

Won't this be fantastic if it pops up right at a bit?

Right at the time.

It would be amazing.

This would be amazing.

This would be amazing.

I have 20 seconds remain.

Will

the pop chart come up?

Will it come up?

I

mean, maybe.

The drama here is

about time.

10 seconds.

9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4.

Now remember, it's French, so give it a couple of seconds extra.

Oh!

One minute exactly.

It turned 0-0 as it popped up.

That was amazing.

Wow.

So

there you go.

That's incredible.

What a display.

We're going to throw my toast in for one minute.

Now it makes sense.

Yes, it does.

All right.

Thanks.

Thanks for helping us uncover that incredible.

Oh, it's my pleasure.

Important work.

Really was.

Mustard on.

Two out of three dentists say mustard on Pop-Tarts.

Good.

Not bad.

Yeah.

Not bad.

Four out of four people say butter on toast.

Good.

Four out of four say ice cream between two Pop-Tarts.

Good.

I think that the summary here is: we like Pop-Tarts.

I think is kind of the summary.

Let's not get hasty.

There might be some more trials in our future to get it that specific.

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Glenn, back.

Glide back.

So

should we have a contest on who can gain the most this holiday season or who can not gain or who can gain the least?

I noticed that none of the options were losing weight or maintaining it.

Yeah.

No.

It's losing.

I mean, I'm sorry, it's gaining the least amount or the most amount.

What are we doing this year?

I've been been operating under the fact that it was going to be gained the most.

Really?

That's been my kind of belief.

If you were to change that now, it would really screw me up.

All right.

Let's see if I can gain

only half of what you do.

Good luck with that.

You better start eating.

Glenn, back.