Best of the Program | Guests: Allie Beth Stuckey & Christopher Rufo | 12/4/25

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Well, the new GAO report is out and shows massive fraud in Obamacare. Whoa, what a surprise! What are we doing to fix this?

Also, Christopher Ruffo joins me to discuss the massive amount of fraud that has been uncovered in Minnesota.

Why does it seem like I care more about the Minnesota taxpayer than the Minnesota taxpayer?

This is a really bad story, and Ali Bestuckey joins us to discuss the rise of political Islam in America and toxic empathy.

It's all leading to our TV show, our Wednesday night special tonight on Blaze TV about what's really going on

around the world and here in America with political Islam. A really critical show you watch tonight on YouTube, also Blaze TV.
Right now, here's today's best of podcast.

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the best of the blend back program.

You got to ask yourself, why were the Democrats so unbelievably out of their mind

when Elon Musk came in and started making cuts? When he started going through with AI and said, just let's just go through the budgets. Let's just look at where money is going.

When they cut

the

USAID, why do you think they went crazy? Because that money was all being funneled to GAOs or even to

NGOs. It was all going to NGOs.

It was going to fund our destruction, okay?

When he started going through the budgets, they had to get him out. They had to stop this from happening because of the fraud we're now seeing.

If you were just joined us, we were talking about the new Obamacare findings from the GAO that shows billions of dollars of fraud that was happening.

This is going to set you off

even a little bit more.

Jason is with me, chief researcher. Jason,

help me out because it seems as though I've heard this exact story from the GAO before. True or false?

True, unless you're reading a story from 25 or 2015 or 2016.

Are you? Yeah, no. Oh, this is new today.
This is new today. Oh, okay.
Okay. I'm just confused because these are the exact same findings the GAO had in 2015, 2016.
This is absolutely insane.

We just pulled this up. It is literally word for word almost the same findings they give you the 2016.
Here's the here's the 20. Let me see if I can pull it back up.
Let me give you the 2020 findings.

Okay.

Government Accountability Office

said

that

every single one of the fictitious

people that were submitted names, 100% of them were approved. Not only were they approved, they were renewed year after year.

And

also there were dead people, like lots of dead people, people that didn't exist at all.

We're looking at 66,000 Social Security numbers that didn't match any real living people. 58,000 matched Social Security death records.

6 million people who are not even in the categories they claim to be in the categories, and they're getting tens of thousands of dollars each of them. Three or four times as many people enrolled in

100 to 150 of poverty

into these zero plans. They're not in those income tax brackets.
They're not eligible for that money, but they were still getting it. $27 to $30 billion in fraud.
That's today's story.

What's the 2016 story? 2016 story, GAO did the exact same thing in 2015 for the re-enrollment period.

15 fictitious applications were submitted. All were approved for coverage and subsidies.
All.

They were approved coverage even when no documents were requested or only fake documents were submitted. And not only this, but it's set to just,

it's like the bad subscription that you have that you have no idea that you had, you know, five years ago. It just automatically keeps going.

Same thing. Even though you're supposed to file tax returns to show that every, you know, all your numbers are still lining up.

Well, these are fictitious people, so they couldn't obviously free file their tax returns. It didn't matter.
It still re-auto-enrolled them and we have paid for this.

Exactly what this report today said.

What a coincidence. Why does the GAO even bother doing these because no one acts on them?

Why?

You know why. Yeah.
You know why and I know why.

This is, you know, when a government becomes this incompetent and unaccountable, your country starts to completely, completely fall apart. Okay.

And

we see Democrats now rushing to the microphone to defend the perpetrators.

You know, the judges that are reversing verdicts to protect the people who stole from you.

I contend that the people that are rushing to the microphones to defend it are the people who have been covering this up. And you see brainwashed Americans.

I'm sorry, but if you you can't, if you're not outraged by this amount of fraud, I don't care who did it.

If you're not outraged and you don't want all of these people to go to jail, you're so brainwashed, you are, you're actually defending the people who are stabbing you in the chest every day.

How is that possible?

I mean,

it's like you have Stockholm syndrome. And the question is, it's not incompetence, is it? Or Or is it design?

This is how republics fall apart, okay?

Not for an invasion, although we have that going on, not with

just

internal strife, which we have going on, not just with financial collapse, which we have going on,

but also with internal corruption, which we have going on, defended by the same people who lecture you about morality, and they're handing out money, your money, to imaginary citizens.

And then they have the balls to come and say, if you don't extend these subsidies,

all these people are going to lose coverage. Good.

Good.

Let's have the dead people that you're paying lose that coverage and use that money that you've just blown and give to your friends or your NGOs. Let's use that money to cover the subsidies.

What do you say? How about that as a compromise? Stop

the fraud. Stop the fraud.

And, you know, I mean, I just,

is this theft? Is this compassion? Is this incompetence? Is it design?

Because Obamacare is not about care. It's not.
It's not about health care. All of this is about the future of our country, and our country will not survive if we continue to normalize this stuff.

If incompetence is just expected. Oh, well, that's the government.
They lost another $40 billion.

If accountability is optional and only you are held accountable, but never anybody who's in the system,

then we don't have a system. We have a system of oppression.
We have a system of theft. We have a corrupt system.
It doesn't get better from here, gang.

Unless you stand up, it's not going to get better for and it's broken we all know it's broken washington knows it's broken and they want it to stay broken because broken systems can be controlled manipulated exploited for whatever they want

but broken systems can also be fixed

if if people stand up and go you know what no more no more not with my money not in my name not with my country no

that's why i started the show saying, you know, come January,

when the one-year anniversary goes on, if I don't see people actually with indictments that are going to jail,

all hell is coming to this program.

All hell is coming to this program. And I'm going to bring it to a doorstep in Washington, D.C.

Pam Bondi, you should know. I've been silent.
I have been as supportive as I can be. But if I don't see prosecutions of people, and I don't mean nameless people, I don't mean the little guy,

just the Somalian,

I want to see the people who were in power that covered this up, because that's the real problem.

You can get one Somalian, you can put that one Somalian in jail, but you know what happens?

They're replaced with another Somalian or another Italian or another American or another Mexican or another just, here's an idea, human being, because human beings, when they think they can get ahead without getting caught or paying any price, they'll do it.

And if you have people in power that want to get ahead and they're in on the corruption and they're excusing all of this and they never pay a price because the one Somalian will pay the price, It's not going to get better.

You know, maybe it's time for the living to remind those who give health care to the dead who actually runs this country.

This country,

it's my country. It's your country.
It's a country of the people who voted unlike I voted. It's the country of Democrats and Republicans and Independents.

If you love the country,

If you're trying to bilk the country, destroy the country, tear the country down, if you want to build a more perfect nation, then it is your country.

Even if we disagree on virtually everything other than I want to build a more perfect nation that frees more people using the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, then it's your country too.

But you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. And I see far too many people that are part of the problem.
And many of them are in Washington, D.C.

In fact, I think most of them are in Washington, D.C. You know, you wouldn't have a problem with whole communities just starting to bilk people, steal a billion dollars.

Do you think that just happened? No, that was somebody who was like, you know, you can game this system.

And they gamed it so hard. And they were like, look at this is a free, this is, they're printing money.
It's so free and nobody's not saying anything.

It's so clear I'm bilking the system and nobody's saying anything. We can get away with this.
And then another person joins in and they're like, oh my gosh, look at this.

And before you know it, you have a whole community because no one was held accountable.

And why? In the Somali community, it's because Waltz and others,

they can't say anything about the Somali community. And it's not because they're afraid of the Somali community.
It has nothing to do with Muslims. It has everything to do with votes.

They need that community. You're not going to be governor if you don't have the Somali community.
So you dare not say anything. How racist is that?

Don't tell me I'm racist for pointing out that some Somalians

are coming from a country that this is the norm.

Their country, Somalia, it is the norm.

This is the way it works, corrupt government. This is how people bilk the system.
Okay, they come over here and because you don't want to say anything about them because why?

I mean, gee, they won't vote for me.

How racist is it that you just think because they're Somalians, they want to live in corruption? Maybe they don't. And maybe those who do should go to jail or go back to Somalia.

When are we going to start hearing this? From people who will... actually

do something about it.

I am so sick and tired of hearing from people in Washington saying, we're we're going to do something. We're going to do something.
You know what? You elect me. What the hell is Congress?

I've got to rant on Congress later. Oh my gosh, the stuff that they're doing.

I am so sick of the GOP

telling me that they're going to do something, and then what do they do?

Well, we're doing an investigation. Well, you know what? After this next election,

bull crap. Man, was I close to saying something other than crap.
Bull crap. I am so sick and tired of hearing it.
You and the GOP, your time is running out.

People that have voted for you, who have supported you, who have done everything they could to make sure you were elected, we're sick and tired of it.

We want action. We don't want another bill that says, oh, you know what? It's a super special day because we're doing X, Y, and Z.
I want to see actual action on things that actually matter.

Good God, man, the Republic is at stake. What have you been doing?

And I know there are good congressmen. I know there are good senators out there that are beating.
They're saying the same thing I'm saying. There are those.
I know them.

They're saying the same thing I'm saying. I just want to put the people at the top of the party at notice.

We're done with you. You've had a year.
There's been some great progress in the White House. I've never seen a year like this.

I've never seen as much progress as this president has made in nine months.

Except I haven't seen any progress, it seems, in corruption,

in weaponization.

I haven't seen any progress in that. And I don't know if you know this, but if you don't start making progress, you don't deserve to be reelected.
You don't deserve the power.

And if you screw it up and then we don't have anybody we can get behind because we're sick and tired of it, you know who comes in?

People who are going to destroy this country, destroy it. Now, when that happens, I have to ask myself, oh, well, maybe you were part of the scam.
Maybe you're enriching yourself.

Maybe you're a pig at the trough too.

Because why else? Why else wouldn't you step up and fix this?

This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

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Now back to the podcast. Allie, welcome to the program.
How are you?

Doing well. How are you?

I'm really good. I'm really good.

Good. It is amazing to me how

this

the awareness of this Islamic takeover of the West, how quickly it is spreading and how quickly people are waking up.

I don't know about the politicians, but the average person is really starting to wake up to this, don't you think?

Absolutely.

And of course, you've been warning about this for years, but I think a lot of people are just seeing it infiltrate their neighborhoods, that there's mosques where there used to be churches or where there used to be office buildings.

There are people wearing hijabs and their elementary schools and middle schools. There are fewer people celebrating Christmas in Hanukkah around them.

And you're told that you're not allowed to notice this and you're certainly not allowed to care about this. There's no such thing as American culture.

You can't care about sharing these celebrations with your neighbors, but people do care. It's very unsettling and a lot of people are just finding the words and the courage to say something about it.

You know,

I don't have a problem with, you know, halal or koshering. I don't have a problem.
But I do have a problem that my kids' school now has to only serve halal food.

I mean, it's like, wait a minute, what?

What's up with that? And that's happening all over Texas where halal is your choice now. And I just,

I mean, can we have a conversation about this, please? You know, that's all, I think that's what most people just want. Can we at least have a conversation about what's happening in our country?

Right. You know, I asked my Instagram followers, vast majority are women, probably 85% stay-at-home moms.
And when I asked this question, my followers were about 850,000 on Instagram.

And I just said, totally open-ended, wasn't looking for a particular answer. Hey, what is your biggest concern with America right now? I was just trying to come up with topics for my show.

The number one answer over and over again was the spread of Islamic dominance where they are living, in America, in the West.

This is very destabilizing for a lot of people, and they are seeing it not just affect people far off like we used to, but affects their own neighborhoods and their own schools.

And so, you know, usually politicians take a while to kind of wake up to what the populace is really scared of. We have seen some good action in Texas for sure, but this is a real problem.

And it's not just an illegal immigration problem, And that's the uncomfortable part of this. Like, this is a cultural issue.
This is an immigration issue in general.

So we need the people in Washington and in Austin to come up with some good solutions for the people who are concerned about this.

You said that your audience is concerned because it affects them. How does it affect them?

Well, I think that they're scared of the violent crime that they've seen in places maybe in their own city, but certainly in places where Islam has dominated when we look at places like Dearborn, Michigan, when we look at our friends across the pond, that sexual crimes, that violent crimes all increase disproportionately when there is a large-scale importation of people from these Muslim-majority countries.

Doesn't mean that they're all like that. It doesn't mean that they can't be good neighbors.
But this is not only a cultural change.

This is not only a shift in how their neighborhoods look and feel and the celebrations had and things like that, but this also is potentially a threat to their own safety, especially the safety of their daughters.

And people care about that.

I was talking to somebody, I was doing a podcast with somebody over in London yesterday. And

he was talking about this. And I said, you know, I'm not, you know, I don't follow the news all the time, you know, closely like I do in America about, you know, the United Kingdom.

But what I'm seeing coming out of Ireland, and when you think of Ireland, you think of a very Catholic country,

you know, or Protestant, a very Christian country. Right.

And they fought wars over their own Christianity. It is almost completely gone now.

You have to go to, you know, the way, way, way, way outskirts, you know, the northern part of the island to find that kind of community. The Irish have almost been completely wiped out.

There's very few churches left. They are all being converted into mosques.
And, you know, okay, well, time passes, et cetera, et cetera. But to not notice and not say,

wait a minute, that is the erasing of an entire people and their culture. And that culture is very important to the West.
Should we not care about that?

Right. Well, certainly progressives care about it when it comes to, you know, non-British or non-British countries or countries that are not America.

They call that colonialism. They call that imperialism.
But apparently, when Muslims do this, it's fine. But the problem was at first Islam.
The problem was secularization.

The lesson there is that secularism doesn't hold. Atheism, agnosticism don't hold.
People are looking for meaning, and eventually, ideology in one religion will win.

And right now, Islam in a lot of countries is winning.

You know, you wrote a book on toxic empathy, and

I think it's a mistake on this one to say that it was empathy that we've gone down the road.

I think this is,

especially if you look in Minnesota, they turn a blind eye to what's going on in

Minnesota, and I'll bet you in Michigan as well, because if you don't have the Muslim population on your side, you're not going to be elected governor. You're not going to be mayor.

And so it's not empathy. It's all politics, which makes it even more grotesque.

But when I see us turning a blind eye to it,

we're now entering the time of

suicide. And those who are in power

are the doctors engaging in medical-assisted suicide for their country. They know what they're doing at this point.
They're just choosing their power and hold on to their power

for as long as they can. Do you think toxic empathy at this point is still playing a role in this Islamic,

you know, hostile political Islamic takeover?

Yeah, I absolutely do. Now, do I think that that's the case for Tim Walls or Jacob Frey or any of these cowards? No, probably not.
It's probably power. It's fear, as you said.

But for the average person, especially for the woman, especially for the person who has been told that loving your neighbor means just accepting all forms of people, no matter what their behavior is, then yeah, I do think that people are more scared of Islamophobia or being called an Islamophobe than they are the Islamification of their neighborhood.

In fact, I think they think that their virtue is tied to how much they like halal and how much they accept, you know, the

building of mosques around their neighborhood.

And so I do think that people feel so strongly that being exclusive or intolerant in any way is a sign of being a bad person that they won't speak up because the immediate social incentive for speaking up against Islam or against soft on crime policies or anything, It just, it doesn't exist.

The social incentive in the immediate is to be as progressive as possible. People respond to incentives.
So I think that's a big part of what's going on.

I'd love to hear your comments on Trump over the holiday tweeted out.

The official United States foreign population stands at 53 million people, most of which are on welfare from failed nations or from prisons, mental institutions, gangs, or drug cartels.

They and their children are supported through massive payments from patriotic American citizens who, because of their beautiful hearts, do not want to openly complain or cause trouble in any way, shape, or form.

They've put up what has been happening to our country, but it's eating them alive to do so.

Wow, that's not very empathetic, is it?

Right. That's exactly what he's talking about, is toxic empathy.
He's talking about our compassion as Americans being weaponized against us.

The problem, I wouldn't have said it's a problem, but now it's it's kind of becoming a problem, is that for conservatives, we're thinking individually.

We're thinking about our family, and we're thinking, okay, whatever, just take my taxes, do what you have to do. I'm going to keep my head down.
I'm going to work hard.

I'm going to move further outside of the city. I'm going to homeschool.
I'll just, you know, take the Benedict option and kind of be a recluse.

As long as my family is safe, as long as I can make money, as long as things are okay here, then I'll be fine. Well, progressives, for the most part, don't think that way.
They think collectively.

They are looking to build a coalition to take power. We are just thinking about our family and about our immediate future in our local community.

And that's not really a fair fight when you have someone who is thinking in the big sense and we're thinking in the micro.

And so he's absolutely right. And that is one weakness that we Christian and conservatives have, even if we're right in thinking that way.

It's hurting us now, especially in ideology like Islam that means submission. they're looking to conquer.
And conservatives in general, we just haven't been thinking that way.

I was talking to a guy from the United Kingdom and I said,

how close are you guys to civil war? I mean, I see what's going on and, you know, collapse and it's, I mean, it's bad. And he said, I think it's beyond saving, but for God.

And what came to mind as he said that was, yeah, I agree with that, except you've become a godless country.

I mean, you know, the Church of England just raised the Islamic flag over the Church of England last week. I mean,

what God is there?

Right. He said that there was a resurgence of faith, which would be great.

But how do we fix this, Allie?

Gosh, I pray to the Lord that that is true, that there is some kind of revival that we don't see. It's important to know that God's work doesn't always make headlines.
It doesn't always go viral.

When it seems like he's just doing one thing, he's actually doing a million things in the unseen and unsung work of just faithful believers that might not have radio shows or podcasts, but they are doing God's work.

And so I pray to the Lord that that is true. It is, I can't imagine like a better signifier that you've been conquered than, you know, another ideology raising its flag over your territory.

I mean, that is literally a sign. You have been conquered, but God, but God can do anything.
And so we should pray. He works through the prayer prayer of believers.

He works through the obedience of believers, the boldness of evangelism of believers.

We can't all change the world, but we can be faithful with whatever spot of eternity God has providentially placed us in to make it better for the glory of God, to share the gospel and to speak beauty and truth and goodness into whatever sphere we occupy.

That is the responsibility of a Christian. That is how God has moved mountains for over 2,000 years, and I think he will continue to.

Hallelujah. Thank you.
God bless you. Thank you very much.

You bet, host of Blaze TV, relatable, Ali Beth Stuckey. She is the Phyllis Schlafly of our day

and I couldn't be more proud of her.

She's just a good woman. This is the best of the Glen Bett program.

So I first ran into Chris Ruffo, I don't even know how many

lifetimes ago.

He was working for the City Journal, and he was starting to uncover things, and he just started doing investigations on things that he cared about.

And all of a sudden, he is one of the best investigative reporters out there.

Extraordinarily credible,

right almost every single time.

And he is joining us at the Blaze. He is the host now of his own TV show, Rufo and Lomez.

And he's the guy who broke the story a couple weeks ago about the Minnesota taxpayers who are funding a terrorist group, Al-Shabaab.

I don't know. Is that a problem?

Can I ask you, am I more outraged?

And I haven't paid any Minnesota tax. Am I more outraged than the people of Minnesota?

I mean, I know there's, you know, it's Norwegians up there. And so they're, you know, Norwegians are like, yeah, sure.
I mean, you know.

They don't seem to get very excited about, and they're very, you know, socialized and everything else. They're very big heart, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And they don't seem to, you know, they, they,

they're Swedish, Norwegian, you know.

But is there any point where they're outraged? Is there any point where they're like, you know what, this socialization thing is good, but not like this?

This socialized, hey, let's help everybody, but not like this. I mean, you had a billion dollars taken from the taxpayers.
A billion

is,

and I don't hear anything from the people of, I mean, if your government, if you were taken for a billion dollars and your money, you knew was being taken away from children who need food,

they were faking all kinds of health issues for other children, and so taking money away from real autistic programs and then putting it in and sending it to a terror group, wouldn't you be kind of pissed?

Because I know I would be. Are the people in Minnesota pissed about it? I don't know.

I mean, I don't think if it was my state, I don't think my governor would still be in the governor's office. But, you know, maybe that's just me.
Christopher Rufo joins me now.

Chris, we were just talking about, I mean, first of all, thank you for not only this story, but all the stories and things that you have exposed over the years.

Thank you for doing all of the hard work and being credible the whole time.

Am I more outraged by this story than the people of Minneapolis? Because they don't seem to have a problem with it. Is it just me?

Well, it's even more bizarre, actually.

You're outraged about the proper thing to be outraged about, which is that a group that is a recent arrival, was permitted asylum, refugee status into the United States, has now systematically looted the treasury of the state of Minnesota.

But Minnesota politicians are also outraged, but they're outraged that we've noticed this and that we've called this out and that we're saying this is not okay.

And so you have the mayor of Minneapolis speaking in Somali, saying that he's going to

do whatever he can, do whatever he can to

shelter the Somali community from any criticism at all. And I just find this

borderline suicidal and the

Scandinavian founding culture of Minnesota is just being systematically exploited, and they seem to have no ability to even defend themselves against it.

I mean, what's happened to Sweden is happening in, you know, in

Minnesota. It's just they take the kindness and the socialism, you know, the socialized everything, and they just absolutely abuse it until there is nothing left.

And, you know, I don't,

let me ask a question,

and I want to be really careful here because, you know,

and I know you're not,

nobody is reasonably saying this, that all Somalis just want to rip us off. Not true.

I think there's probably a lot of people that wanted to get away from Somalia because it is an absolutely corrupt system. And now our politicians are just recreating what they had in Somalia.

And I can't believe that everybody from Somalia in Minnesota is for that.

But

when you look at where they came from, that is the way their government works. It is so rife with corruption.
Is this something that is being imported or is this just a handful of bad guys?

Well, it's a little bit of both. And as you said, we have to be careful and precise in how we think about it.

But what's happening is that obviously not every Somali is participating in these fraud schemes, but it's true that many, many, many, an extraordinarily high percentage of people in the Somali community were participating in these schemes.

Prosecutors have told me that there are dozens of these schemes that have been perpetrated, and some of them are involving dozens and in some cases, hundreds of families.

And so we're talking about a very high percentage of the population. But the point is this, related to immigration, we always have had an immigration system that makes group level analyses.

And so Somalis, for example, for many decades now, have been given special privileges in America's immigration system. They have special status for asylum, for refugee programs.

And so we've rewarded Somalis on the basis of a group identity.

And I think that it's totally fair to say, hey, wait a minute. We can't take everyone from around the world.
We have to prioritize by group.

We can't judge every single human being around the world as an individual. And the reality is that the Somali community is is not coming as individuals, they're coming as a community.

And so you can say, you know, there are absolutely great people,

wonderful Somalis. The incredible Ayan Hirsi Ali is a Somali, incredible woman.

But the fact is, is that they're bringing the cultural systems from Somalia to the United States, and they're just fundamentally incompatible.

That's

the brass tack, the bottom line, the end of the story.

And what I was looking for and hoping for was that Somali leaders would stand up and say,

what's happening in our community is wrong.

We're going to work with law enforcement to stamp out this corruption within our own house.

But instead, they've gone just the opposite. They're promising that members of their community should have no criticism and should operate with impunity.

Tim Walls

and even Mayor Fry, how do they survive this?

Here's the actual sad truth.

I know conservatives are waiting for the backlash to sweep away these corrupt leaders and these seckless and incompetent politicians, but there's something about liberal culture where no amount of chaos, corruption, crime, murder,

the theft can dissuade them from their core beliefs that our society is bad and as a form of penance or kind of

self-flagellation, we have to accept any amount of crime provided that it's committed by people who can check the identity boxes.

And so I'm actually pessimistic and skeptical of the idea that Minnesota voters are going to rise up and

demand that this corruption stop.

You know, I remember Michelle Bachman came to my apartment when I was living in New New York City, probably about 2008, maybe nine.

And she sat me down and she said, Glenn, you got to pay attention to what's happening with our State Department in Minnesota. And I said, what do you mean?

And she said, They're moving whole communities into

Minnesota. And she's like, and I said, communities, what do you mean? And she said, Somalis.
And I'm like,

why would they be moving to Minnesota? I mean, you come from Somalia.

What?

You miss being surrounded by feet of snow for six months out of the year.

And she said, no, she said, it is the State Department. It's like they selected, you know, Minnesota and moved people in as a community.
Was this... Was this done?

I mean, I'm having a hard time separating like USAID.

I know what that is. We all know what that is.

This is corruption, and they knew exactly what they were doing. Is this incompetence just corruption? Is there planning involved in this? Is this,

you know, I hate America so much, Cloward and Piven kind of said, what is this?

So there's two arguments that have been floated to answer, in an attempt to answer this question. The first argument is that the last knows how to gain power, and by importing dependent foreign groups

into the populace, they have a client that can provide them with votes in exchange for patronage, or in this case, corruption.

And that this is a strategy to amplify their own domestic political power. The other hypothesis, and I think for me, the more persuasive hypothesis, is that this is just simple liberal naivete

and a kind of suicidal empathy, as Ganzad calls it,

where they are blind to the consequences of their own actions.

They judge on inputs rather than outputs. And for them, the measure is how compassionate can they be, and any imposition of limits or consequences is seen as a violation of core liberal principles.

You know, it might be a combination of the two, but I don't, you know, again,

barring evidence that emerges, I would assume that it's more the latter than the former.

How do we know for sure that money went to al-Shabaab?

Great question.

I mean, first of all, there have been schemes over the last decade where counterterrorism officials tell me that every time they're looking at ISIS recruiting, al-Shabaab recruiting, radical Islamist recruiting, Minneapolis always shows up.

And in fact, it is really the epicenter of foreign terror recruitment in the United States of America.

But on the particular question of al-Shabaab, there is the testimony of multiple counterterrorism officials who told us, hey, some of this money is getting siphoned off and essentially taxed by the al-Shabaab terror network once it leaves the United States and goes into the Somali informal banking system.

But this is really not in dispute.

Even a left-leaning group like the Foundation for Defense of Democracies has long noted that al-Shabaab skims almost all remittance payments that travel through the country of Somalia.

And therefore, it stands to reason.

If people are stealing from the Minnesota government, sending that money back to Somali through the Hawala remittance system, and al-Shabaab is taking their cut, we're talking about a significant amount of money, whether it's intentional or unintentional.

The end result is the same. Al-Shabaab is receiving American taxpayer dollars that were stolen and then routed through their networks.

So, how is this stopped? Because, I mean, it doesn't look like anything in Minnesota is going to happen.

How is this stopped? Because it feels honestly, and you would know better than I do, it feels like the tip of the iceberg.

I mean, you know, today the story from the GAO on Obamacare, and that's completely out of control, USAID, this is happening. I mean,

tip of the iceberg, how do we stop this if our politicians won't do anything in the states?

Well,

there's two things that we can do. I think, first off, in this particular case, federal prosecutors have done a great job uncovering these Somali fraud rings and implementing prosecutions.

And so they really deserve enormous credit. But the federal government should do much more.

And I would recommend that health and human services and other welfare departments at the federal level stop all payments to Minnesota until they have a third-party audit, until they get their fraud under control.

And ultimately, you have to stop giving these people money if you want them to change their behavior.

And so I think a stop payment order on all federal funding to Minnesota programs where there's suspicions of fraud will help clean things up fairly quickly.

But the reality is that we have a system in the United States where it's always a third-party payer. Health insurance, welfare programs, food stamps, autism services, whatever it might be.

These are massive third-party payer programs. The incentives are

not aligned with people actually enforcing the rules, and they become easy targets for fraudsters. And so Minnesota used to be famous for honesty, fair dealing, good government.
Oh, yeah.

And in just a short number of decades, their reputation has now been completely inverted. And it is,

by all accounts, from all of the research that I've done, I think this is likely the largest systematic welfare fraud scheme in American history.

And thus making it probably the world.

Chris, thanks for everything. I'm so so glad that you're part of the blaze.
God bless you. Thank you for everything you're doing.
Thanks, Glenn.

You bet. Christopher Ruffo.