Thick Forrest (ENT S2E20)

Here's to the finest crew in Starlink.

When it comes to my crew, you won't get any argument from me.

This is a parody.

Paramount owns the song.

Welcome to The Greatest Generation.

It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are just a little bit embarrassed about having a Star Trek podcast.

I'm Ben Harrison.

I'm Adam Pranika.

We've been wanting a Mayweather episode.

It's just like being back in the wood.

Who are you?

In some Travis Mayweather.

Parents must be very proud.

When I was a kid, we called it the sweet spot.

Who are you?

I'm the houseman.

I guess growing up a boomer has its advantages.

And your mom very proud.

That's true.

Takes practice.

Other than keeping in some Mayweather up at night, I'm not sure what we expect to accomplish here.

It's like, is this guy even a part of the show?

Has been a feeling for a long time.

Indeed.

Yeah.

I mean, was Mayweather in the little thumbnail on the streaming service?

Is that what we're promised?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

He's in it on my little call sheet app that shows me who the actors' names were.

I think whether or not this is true, I think even asking the question makes my point.

Do you remember another one of these happening for the character of Mayweather?

on Star Trek Enterprise now that we are 20 episodes into the second season.

I really don't.

And I think that every season of TNG felt like it at least had one Data episode and one Troy episode.

You know, like everyone in the main cast got to be the center of at least one, it felt like.

And we're kind of, it's kind of a suspicious bottle, right?

Because

you give Mayweather all this screen time.

I kept thinking, maybe this guy's going to die.

And I didn't want that.

You know, this happens in Damon Lindelof shows all the time.

Like, oh, we're getting kind of getting near 30 minutes of screen time for this one character who I always thought was kind of on the periphery.

Right, right.

That's weird.

I mean, it's not unprecedented in Star Trek, also.

Like, Ariam, suddenly, the main character of this episode.

What's that about?

Yeah, the Ariam episode, where both of us, I think, had to look up that character's name.

Pretty great.

I'm excited excited about this one, Adam.

Do you want to just jump right in?

I did a bunch of ab exercises before we got on mic, so I'm ready, Ben.

You look ready.

You look absolutely shredded.

Yeah.

Cut, I would say.

Let's see if we achieve our gains in Star Trek Enterprise Season 2, Episode 20.

It's called

Horizon.

And in the cold open, we learn how Mayweather gets those abs, right?

By reading on the ceiling.

You got to imagine he's like in a full crunch up there as he kind of spider-mans.

Oh, what a feeling reading on the ceiling.

Yeah,

we've seen him chill up here before, right?

Yeah, this may be one of the only things we know about him is he likes to go to this area of the ship and get up on the ceiling.

But

he's got to stop his little hang here here because they're reversing course.

We've got some sexy orders from sexual icon Admiral Forrest.

I'm so glad you described him like that.

Here's another question, a lot like the other Mayweather question.

Has Enterprise ever made it to a place without needing to divert?

Feels like this is a way the show has operated for a little bit.

Like, hey, we're on our way to a thing, just like we always try to be.

Sexual icon Admiral Forrest on the line, and we're glad it's on video.

What's Admiral Forrest's first name?

Do we know?

His nickname is Boomerang, but

I mean, the logo makes itself.

Yeah.

I was going to say thick forest.

Are you saying because his pubic thatch is particularly lush?

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So also suggestive is the mission that they're on.

Enterprise is sent to observe a unique phenomena wherein a planet passes between two large gas giants and being in the middle of these two hot spheres makes things very hot for the thing in the middle.

And Enterprise has been sent to watch

hot fuck eggs into the mags check

i one time did a transcontinental flight in a in a middle seat between two gas giants and uh it was no fun let me tell you the thing about being in the middle of two

large hot objects is the two large hot objects like this doesn't do anything for them like it's purely for the thing in the middle right uh doing its thing well you know some star systems like

providing.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's really what this mission is about.

Figure out what's going on here.

Who is into it?

Who isn't?

Admiral Forrest would really like to know that.

It's a weird McLaughlin group

because it kind of feels like they almost called Mayweather up.

to the bridge for his permission to change course.

Like they've been ordered to change course, but he's like being told why so that he can be like, all right, I'm going to go over to my station and like boop the button that changes course.

We're so used to seeing shift change and people having the con or the helm, people being tagged in and tagged out.

I love the idea of uh, there's no one there to do Mayweather's job.

There's like a rope attached to his chair.

Yeah, there's a brick on the accelerator.

Hey, hey, Mayweather, no one else knows the knot.

Can you come and undo it?

We didn't want to have to use scissors.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we're in Archer's clarinet rental room after this, and Mayweather, after taking the rope and brick off of his station, comes in to hit Archer up about something personal.

He's like, hey, you know, while we're whipping around, we are kind of whipping sort of close by my family cargo ship.

The Horizon.

And in case you don't remember my backstory, and who would?

My whole family works on this thing, and I basically grew up there, quit that job in order to work for Starfleet.

And listen, it's just a 10-hour diversion on top of the transit that we're taking to do this other study.

And

that amount of time is hilarious to me.

This is like the passenger on a road trip.

If you're doing like Seattle to LA or something, and the passenger is like, hey, you know, while we're doing this, My family lives in Salt Lake City.

Could we just hang a left and like, can you drop me off?

And then maybe when you come back, you can pick me up.

This does not seem convenient at all.

And it seems like a huge ask.

It does, but it's not a huge ask as far as Archer is concerned.

It's a hell yeah.

I think we can manage without you for a few days.

Thank you, sir.

We learned that Travis's father has been ailing, and we learned that his mom is both the ship's medic and the chief chief engineer.

Hey, hey, Ben.

Kind of the same thing, right?

What is the body but a biomechanical machine?

Precisely.

What is a ship, but?

How are things working?

How are they breaking down?

How can I fix them?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I hope she has good bedside manner with that little warp cord they got back there.

There's a moment in this scene that I really wanted to talk to you about, which is the line that Archer walks and occasionally crosses with the whole,

you know, Mayweather, I almost slummed it on a cargo ship.

That could have been me.

Right.

And like, you have to be careful about how much interest you show in someone's life choices that you didn't personally take.

Right.

Do you ever run into this in real life?

Absolutely.

I mean, when you're talking about like where he went to college, it can really hit hard if somebody like wanted to go to that college and didn't or yeah or like what you studied isn't what they studied or whatever i feel like it comes up when you when you have kids and you have friends that don't have kids i think it most often comes up for me when i'm like having retail encounters because i used to work retail for a long time in a variety of areas and and like i often want to have like a cool exchange an exchange that's like hey it's fine you You don't have to like, you don't have to do that with me.

I'm one of you.

I used to be you.

But that comes off as shitty in this way that Archer, I feel like, came across a little bit shitty himself, you know?

Because like Mayweather has a ton of love for the people that do this work.

And he's like, why didn't you do it?

And what Archer isn't saying is like, kind of dodged a bullet there, didn't I?

I mean, Archer dodged a bullet, but also think of the bullet dodged by all of the poor people on that ship.

I mean, not by your dad, who clearly killed himself for working in such an awful place as long as he did.

By which I mean to say the gap.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I cannot wait to never hear Archer's long story about why he didn't become a cargo ship crew person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We are out of this scene and into engineering next.

Trip Tucker is doing whatever he does at this specific station.

I can't really figure it out.

Tipal rolls up to check in on the prep for this flyby.

That's what Trip Tucker's doing, right?

He's got to prepare the engines and the shielding for being this close to this thing going in between these two solar bodies.

And oh, by the way.

Trip has kind of pulled some strings with the ship's movie programmer.

And it's horror movie film fest.

And isn't it neat that Tripp gets to

make suggestions?

It is neat.

Is Tepal

interested in going

or knowing

any of this?

I have no interest in horror movies.

What

were you understanding Trip's angle to be here?

Because it didn't really hit like he was asking her out.

It felt like a pass to me.

It did?

Yeah.

But like the sort of pass that is almost undetectable, the sort of past that you do when you don't want to put yourself out there at all to be denied.

Just to, hey, here are the facts of a situation that are coming up.

We may be in the same place at the same time later.

Right.

And that's all it is.

That feels like what Trip is doing.

Yes, but

Trip is a grown-up.

He's not in middle school.

I know.

I know.

Because

the terminology of date comes up way later when Archer gets involved, right?

Which was astounding in that moment.

Yeah.

So like, I mean, like, I'm willing to hold space for this being the kind of date where one of the people on the date realizes they're on a date when they're on the date and is like...

you know, put in a terribly awkward position because of that.

And yet, like, from what I understand about modern dating, and I'm definitely not an expert, having been off the market for many years now, like,

hangs are the thing that begin any sort of deeper relationship a lot of the time.

Right.

And maybe Tripp's whole deal is, like, hangs.

Just want to spend time with.

Yeah.

But, like, to Paul's entire deep E story on this episode is trying to get out of...

going to Frankenstein.

And like, if it is a date or even just an invite to hang, like, one of the acceptable answers to that is no

you know

why didn't she just say no

especially when she's so good at it yeah yeah

here's a question about horror movies because we hear a little bit more about like

their relevance or importance to trip yeah in this scene do you think like with the arc of horror being what it's been over the last 20 years,

future horror is so horrible we couldn't even comprehend?

Like it's all the captain's log of Event Horizon for like two hours.

And maybe even harder than that.

Like if they were to watch a modern horror film on Enterprise during these missions instead of the classic MGM monster film stuff that they seem to be consuming.

Yeah, I mean, the horror of today, like, I don't dare look at any of it.

Like, your substances or whatever.

No fucking way.

Oh, the substance was so fun.

You would hate it.

No.

I wish I got to see that movie in the theater.

That was like one of those movies in my entire life.

I regret that.

Wow.

Wow.

I would have invited TePaul more directly to see the substance with me.

Were it to be playing.

I mean, that's the other question is like, what is Trip talking about?

That Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, and, you know, the son of Frankenstein are the best of the genre.

Like,

that's where the genre peaked in his mind.

I don't think those movies are anyone's favorite.

And this just feels like a writer's flourish of like, I'm going to make a character point with Trip Tucker here.

He's going to like classic movies.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's the Tom Parris of the show, isn't he?

Am I making any sense here?

He really is.

You nailed it, didn't you?

If they had a holodeck, he'd be replicating a 1957 Cadillac to make out in.

Look, I'm definitely not going to begrudge any

depiction of the love of film.

in the media I consume.

There should be more of that, more appreciation of it.

But it just feels very,

very heavy.

In a future world, it feels like there would be Miriam interests, not just the same interests show-to-show like we keep getting.

You know?

Did you understand it to be that the chef is also the person who runs Movie Night?

I like that idea.

I feel like he said that in this scene.

I was confused by it.

I didn't assume it, but now it makes sense.

Because what is a movie but a meal

for the eyes and ears?

Chef's the best in Starfleet.

You're sort of the

engineer of someone's social time

when you're the programmer of a film festival, right?

Sure.

But also when you are preparing a meal for people to enjoy together, you know?

Yeah, when you're like threading the film through the sprockets,

aren't you basically like twisting a pile of pasta noodles onto a plate before

before setting it down in front of a diner

is that not the same thing you know i i think you're right i think it's exactly the same

hey what does mayweather's mom do over there does she also program movie night on the horizon

we need more information on that reading mayweather get some lunch They're shooting the breeze when Mayweather gets a call away to talk to his mom and the music swells.

Oh man, Mayweather's gonna love this.

He loves talking to his mom.

And we fade to commercial and when we come back, Archer is logging about how there's been a tragedy in Mayweather's family.

We cut back to the bridge and there's like a bunch of flower arrangements on Mayweather's chair.

They've spray painted a bicycle white and chained it to Mayweather's chair.

Wait, what?

Speaking of the music, I found it very present in this entire episode in an unusual way.

Did you feel this way?

It really was.

Yeah, it felt like an old-fashioned series of music choices almost.

Well put, yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, Travis's dad had some little illness.

Like, Fox was going to go over and take a look, but nobody was that worried about it.

And it somehow just claimed him.

Travis is back in his anti-grav hang

and Archer comes to visit him and learns that not only has Travis' dad passed away, but Travis and he were not on great terms when this happened.

His dad had been kind of miffed when he walked away from the family business to go join Starfleet.

And now, you know, they never had a chance to reconnect and squash the beef.

So this is going to just be dangling over him in his memory of his father.

Ben, speaking of dangling, would you say that Mayweather is sitting Shiva upside down

up there?

Yeah,

I think that's technically correct.

We get a lot of those fun shots of people floating up and down in this scene.

Yeah.

Both Mayweather, like...

Floating up to the top, I think, is a different scene, and then coming down later on, an archer going up in this scene it looks really good when they do this that unbroken sequence is nice they did a nice job i like to see it yeah i wanted one more thing

because the center of the cylinder is where the two forces of gravity achieve equilibrium right

isn't there like a center part of the tunnel where like if if mewer dropped his book would it stop in the middle?

Man, I don't know.

Because

there seems to be gravity.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Gravity at the bottom and gravity at the top.

Which would seem to mean that there's a blend part

of the section.

There's a Lagrange point in the middle.

Great call.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That seems like it's too tricky to pull off.

Like, oh, they get called away to the bridge and like the book slowly falls and like stays in the middle.

Right.

A little bit hungry for that like last bit of effects work.

Yeah, I think that like with the advent of CG, selling a weightlessness thing got so much easier because you can just have somebody's tricorder like hovering in the air next to them.

Yeah.

Hey, notable in this scene, Anthony Montgomery really goes through all the gears as an actor.

I want to say that like

we've spent so little time with this character, it almost works against an actor and a character in a moment like this where it almost feels out of nowhere.

I wish we had experienced more and different emotions out of him up until now.

Because what we get here is so profound and so deep out of him.

It was almost too much for me.

In a like, I don't know you like that from a viewer and a character on TV kind of way.

Did you get any of that?

I did.

I mean, it feels like we're almost like meeting the character in some ways.

Yeah.

And I don't want to know too much too fast.

And that's fucked up because we're at the, almost at the end of season two on the show.

That shouldn't be possible.

I also just got whiplash in this scene because Archer got this like letter of recommendation from Mayweather's dad that Mayweather didn't know about, you know, that.

Seems to resolve the tension of like wishing his dad was proud of him and like finding out like when his dad expressed himself to Archer, he was super proud.

Like,

but did you watch this scene a couple of times?

I think this is Archer doing that I'm a great manager thing where I'm hearing my employee talk about a deficit in his life and going, I can fill that deficit with a story I can conjure.

I'm not sure this letter actually exists.

Hmm.

Wow.

I think Archer makes this up.

He said

he'd never met a more natural stick man in his life.

And that does seem like a weird thing for a dad to say about his son.

That term made me think of the author of a book called Stick and Rudder, which was like a pilot manual for flying float planes.

Oh, wow.

That was written by a family friend of mine

outside of Seattle.

Yeah, Stick and Rudder.

Like, that's how you get them in there.

That's how you get them in and out of a lake.

Yeah.

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Ben would drive.

Tapal has gone to Dr.

Flox and tried in vain to get him to come up with some medical reason why she can't go on this maybe date with Drip.

Hey, Tepal,

if you want to start throwing around the I have a headache as an excuse, maybe

save a few of those for down the road.

Don't use them all in one place, okay?

Yeah,

if you find yourself, let's just say, married to this man.

Yeah.

I have a headache is going to be crucial then.

I have little doubt my headache will return.

It'll be pretty stale at that point if you start using them now.

So Enterprise rolls up on the horizon, and Trip walks Mayweather to the docking ring, and he has a gift for him.

to bring over there, a bunch of stock photos of Mayweather, which are basically screen grabs from old episodes.

And I laughed so hard.

Only half of them are ABS photos.

And none of the photos are of Mayweather hanging from a ceiling, having his brain sucked out by a space station supercomputer.

Why not that one?

That's an adventure.

The one in the upper left corner

is just like a blank expression and a thousand-yard stare.

It's so bad.

You've got to do better than these.

Like, look, Trip, the sentiment is really cool.

Like, that's nice.

But these photos are fucking trash.

They're so bad.

Of the characters on this show, I can think of Mayweather smiling by far the most.

Yeah.

Like, there are screen grabs to be gotten that don't look like this.

I love that a couple of the photos are like establishing shots of settings.

Like they're matte paintings of locations.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, here's Kronos.

Your mom's going to love this.

Oh, there's Delaware.

Cool.

Hi.

I'm in Delaware.

Do you think it would be wrong or inappropriate to use behind the scenes photos of the actors being together?

Because I feel like that kind of stuff had to have existed.

These actors must have been wearing their uniforms and like having lunch from crafty or something, like posed together in a way that you would never see in a screen grab from an episode.

Right.

Like, I wonder if there's something weird about using, appropriating that for an episode in that way.

But I'm telling you, if it were going to be possible, it would make a scene like this so much better.

Like, don't show me the photographs if these are going to be the photographs.

I wonder if there's like a union reason for that.

Because, like, we've got a good friend of the show, Denny, who's like a set photographer.

And if you're not hired by, you know, under the union's aegis as the set photographer, but you show up to take pictures, it can be like a big deal.

That's got to be it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So like, I wonder if like, yeah, they have those photos, but you know, cost like $10,000 more dollars to use them or some crazy shit.

I mean, that, I think we've told the story, then that is how you get a stock photo of Mayweather looking straight ahead while at work.

So we meet Mayweather's mom.

This is Rihanna Mayweather.

All I could think of, when the sun shines, it shines, Mayweather.

And now we're on this starship.

You can stand under my Mayweather.

I don't know.

You didn't want to go, now we're on the Starship Together?

Together rhymes with Mayweather.

You're my son, I'm my Mayweather.

But what about umbrella?

Like, that's where I'm getting stuck, you know?

Yeah, all right.

I was trying to tie abs and fella and hella.

Like.

With abs like hella, hella, ella, eh, eh, eh.

Fella's got abs like hella, hella, ella, eh, eh.

All right, we'll get it together and there'll be something after the credits for people, I think.

Yeah.

Mrs.

Mayweather is holding onto her son's arm like she needs him to walk.

There is a fragility to her that I think is is apparent right away, even though she has so many jobs.

She's very put upon, I think, as a crew person.

She is just so, so, so happy to see her son.

And when the ship goes to warp, it's clear that she was holding on to him for a variety of reasons, one of which is like, you don't want to fall down when the ship goes to warp because a ship this old,

once it hits the gas, it can throw around the bangers.

Yeah, it sure can.

So, yeah, the warp jumps are bumpy.

Mom is catching up with her good boy about how dangerous she's worried his job being on Star Trek might be.

And he's like, no, mom, like, it's really, you know, I'm in the main cast.

Like, I'm not a red shirt.

Like, nothing bad happens to me.

You know, I only ever get my brain sucked out like once a season.

Yeah.

And in the horror movie way, not in the sexual way.

Absolutely nothing sexual happens to me, Mayweather, on this show.

Yeah, yeah.

My gutters remain uncombed in.

I mean one way to further desexualize this character is to walk him to his old quarters, which has been decorated museum-like in the way that they were left.

Like this is a child's room.

Yeah.

He is escorted to.

It's too bad that there seems to be kind of a motherboy aspect to this relationship.

I didn't like that.

Good for Mayweather for escaping the nest.

Yeah, especially given the dynamic that is clearly at play later in the episode.

Every time he needs to go back to his quarters and slam his door because his brother is acting like a prick.

Yeah.

Coming back to his Sesame Street posters or whatever.

Like, damn it.

No.

You get the sense that

room is scarce on this ship.

We meet a bunch of folks aboard who have all kinds of relationships to the Mayweathers, but I wanted to meet the one who gave up their quarters so that it could be decorated in this

weird throwback kind of way.

Yeah.

We meet Paul, Travis's brother, who is acting as captain in the wake of their father passing.

And we learn that he is kind of scrambling to catch up to this job because

their dad was kind of old school, like kept a lot of the inventory of the ship in his head.

And so they're like looking all over the place for things that they need to deliver places.

And there's a ton of extras in the sea.

And I was like, oh, like this, this cargo ship is not quite the small.

hard scrabble crew that I was envisioning.

Like there's like a lot of people here.

I think your description is spot on, ben i was looking for grizzled people because the stories we hear about working cargo are that the ships are grizzled like the ships are difficult places to live and work and i was expecting a crew that kind of mirrored that sensibility yeah but no everyone's save for the mom like fairly youthful and not all scrubby and dirty like they're working on an oil rig you know yeah i've been watching that show the rig on uh i think it's on prime and like all of the actors are like very good looking

generally speaking but like most of them have Scottish accents and so I totally believe them as like

rough and tumble

you know because it's just like you're like we've got to get down to the bottom of this ladder and tighten the bolts before the rig falls apart

And, you know, that's all you need to do to sell me on this person is

salty and

tough, you know?

If only Mayweather's mom had had a Scottish accent, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, that would have been nice.

Speaking of selling, we are beginning to buy the idea that Mayweather's a little bit fish out of water returning home.

Like, he can go home, but like, between wearing the uniform of Enterprise and like the way he acts, there's some friction here between him and everyone else he encounters.

And, I mean, that's pretty direct at the end of this scene when Paul's like, hey, why don't you ditch the uniform?

Like, you're not doing yourself any favors fitting in, wearing that thing.

Ditch the jumper.

Get with the.

I don't know.

Get with the humper.

As in, go back to your quarters and hump your mattress like you used to do

when you were going through puberty.

Yeah.

I'm Paul.

I'm your brother.

I know all about that.

Do you get the sense that Paul is the little brother?

This is such a good question.

Because I think knowing that kind of changes the energy between them.

Right.

In all kinds of ways.

If he is the older brother, I could, like, it makes Mayweather's decision to leave make more sense because,

like, were his dad to die, he would never be next up to be captain the way Paul is.

So why don't you just bail and make your own way?

Join the clergy.

But if he is the older brother and it were his to be in line for, that makes his decision maybe even more more interesting that he would avoid it for that reason.

Well, and it also changes the vibes of the whole, like, oh, Paul's not ready for this.

Like, he's not doing a good job because he's not ready.

It should have never been Paul.

It should have always been Travis, that kind of thing.

I didn't catch anything about it in dialogue, which

was the older.

And look, I'm dying to know.

You barely get it in dialogue that they're brothers.

I know.

That wasn't a bit of knowledge that I had an immediate access access to.

Like, it took me a little while to get on their level.

Totally.

Back on The Entrepreneur, Trip is still sort of chasing to Paul on the idea of going to this screening of Frankenstein.

This is where Archer steps in and sort of insists and makes it a date.

What do you think he meant by, I'll be a perfect gentleman, Adam?

It's interesting that you get two depictions of

workplace passes being done.

In the Trip version, he's so laid back in the cut that you wouldn't even perceive that it's a pass being made or a date being proffered.

Yeah.

In a way that you're like, you can't damage Trip for turning him down or whatever.

Like, you can't hurt him.

It wasn't even a date.

What are you talking about?

You're the one that's making this weird.

Yeah.

But with Archer, Archer is so over the top with the dateness.

I think it works in exactly the same way.

And a like, I wasn't being serious.

Yeah.

i'm being super date guy and a of course it's not a date like that's absurd yeah that was the energy that i got behind it like this was not a date this was someone joking around yeah

but then i'm like wondering if it was ever a date with trip because it doesn't seem like they are in competition with each other for to paul's affection except when trip goes around the corner to the turbo lift and he flashes Archer that you're you're next up.

You're next up at the plate.

I definitely got a sense of the well, if it's not going to be me, I hope it's you kind of.

Oh, it's like the like business travel guys that try to hit on J-Lo in out of sight.

I kind of got that.

I'm tagging you in, bro.

Like, it's not going to be me.

Geez, maybe.

I mean, that is sub, sub, sub text,

but

the energy is weird.

The vibes are very strange.

Legal East.

So Travis has been upgrading things all over the bridge of the horizon, and his brother comes back from somewhere else on the ship and is like, what are you doing?

Why are you changing things about the ship where if they break, nobody here is going to know what to do about it or how to fix it?

Don't do things to my ship without running them by me, the captain.

Pretty reasonable, I thought.

This is just classic parents stay at your place for a while and all of a sudden your thermostat's fucked.

Or like you loan your car to someone and all your radio stations, your favorites are all changed.

What are you doing?

I'm not on Captain Paul's side for so much of this, but this moment I think felt real.

Like, what are you doing, man?

Like, we got a way that we do stuff.

And if you go and make a bunch of upgrades and you're out of here what are we supposed to do about it like you're making it impossible for us to do our work the way he contextualizes his beef makes a ton of sense yeah but i really don't love the ball clobbering at the end maybe you can stop by engineering

build us a warp private like he really kind of uh

gets him on the way out the door totally in a way that i feel like because they're brothers you can get away with that between two characters in a way that if they weren't related, I don't know if that flies.

Yeah, it'd be like way over the line, Paul, would be totally reaction as a viewer.

Yeah, I mean, the clapback is like, I like these are easy upgrades that I can teach you guys to maintain.

Like, I'm not an engineer.

I got these from our engineer.

And if he was able to teach me, I'll be able to teach you.

Right.

But we don't have time for that because we've got to go back to the childhood bedroom where a young woman, like an age-appropriate love interest for Travis, stops by and is like,

oh yeah, like

that Paul, definitely not ready.

Like people are a little stressed about him.

She walks in carrying two tall pitchers of ice water, dumps one on her junk and on his, just to make it totally clear that there is absolutely no sexual energy between them whatsoever.

There's not going to be anything moving between gas giants in this scene or any other.

She is an absolute smoke show.

Like a recognizable hot 90s actress that has been in a ton of shit.

It was tragic that she's there and she's known Travis forever.

And it's just like she infantilizes him immediately.

And why wouldn't you?

He's inside his childhood room, decorated in his childhood way.

It's so awful.

His mom did him so dirty with that.

Like pre-decorating the room.

Oh, that sucks.

Getting his stuffed Moopsie out of storage and putting it in the room for him.

She's like, something smells familiar.

I can't quite put my finger on it.

Like,

hmm.

I think it's your moopsey.

Oh, no.

No, I do not want to touch it.

Travis like pulls Moopsie off of the pillow and it's like, it sounds like peeling velcro.

yeah we we actually put your pillow and your moopsey in storage together because we didn't want to yeah try and get in there

so nora has been friends with travis since they were little and she feels like because of their long history she can confide in him a couple of difficult things one

you and I will never have sex ever ever ever ever and two

uh things on the ship have kind of gone downhill since your dad died.

Like, we're kind of missing the drops and our schedule's been slipping.

And I just got to ask, do you think Paul is the right one for the big chair?

Because that's the question the crew's been asking for a while.

Yeah.

And if someone like Paul got the job after his dad died, what part of Mayweather thinks the job could have been his

is

a question in all capitals that popped into my head because of this scene.

Totally.

This is the subtext that I wanted throughout the episode that is totally absent.

I wanted the conflict in Mayweather, not just about being treated like a child for being on the ship, but for like imagining a future where it's not Paul and it's him and what that would mean for his entire family.

I feel like it is very much the subtext of this scene, but it's never made textual.

It's like it never like spills out into the open in a way that would force a conflict between him and Paul in those terms.

Yeah.

What we needed is a Jean-Luc and Robert roll around in the mud scene in this episode.

We really needed it to go that hard.

It did.

So turbulence is not turbulence.

Turbulence is weps.

And they go up to the bridge and the ship is under attack by some marauding fighters.

Like the bangers hit while Nora and Mayweather is talking and Nora is like holding on super hard to like something very far away from Mayweather so they won't accidentally run into each other.

Yeah, this is not going to be a to Paul boobs on the face fall.

That is not happening.

Couldn't happen.

Travis, get it out of your head.

It's not happening.

We're going shot, reverse shot on this sequence.

We're never going to be in the same frame.

We might as well shoot it on different days.

So up on the bridge uh paul is learning about the uh the attack and decides not to fight back but to run

and as the ship is speeding up to get the hell out of there these uh marauders shoot something that clamps onto their hull and we learn pretty quickly that this thing is emitting a subspace signal It's a beacon, and it is loaded with high-yield explosives.

So, if they want to go try and unclamp it from their hull, it will probably wreck their ship and kill whoever does that.

Yeah.

And it would probably stab through anyone's leg that was out in like an EV suit nearby too.

Yeah.

They learned that the ECS Constellation, one of their sister ships in the fleet, has been subject to the same kind of piracy.

I like this method, right?

Like a ship comes through and tags them.

Another ship comes through and bags them.

Yeah.

And so Travis is like, well, let's get out there and get rid of that beacon.

Like, we can figure this out.

And Paul's like, no, like

we are, we are basically defenseless out here.

We have a couple of little cannons.

Like, we're not picking a fight with these guys.

And he just wants to dump their cargo and run as fast as they can to a space station.

Do you think this episode wants us to root for Mayweather

above every other character?

This scene made me wonder.

Because when Mayweather starts name-dropping a bunch of enterprise crew people while he's proposing ideas, I was like, there is nothing more annoying than this.

This fucking sucks.

And I like Mayweather, but don't do that.

I think it's about him learning that like their context is not his context.

And like the things that the entrepreneur can do and the kinds of choices that the people on it make are just not available to the kind of people that run these freighters.

But they don't know the people he's talking about.

That's what made it so absurd sounding to me.

I kind of felt like they're like, you know, they read about him in the news kind of a thing.

You didn't think so?

I didn't.

I guess you could tie it to that earlier scene where the mom figure has been reading the press clippings of his adventures and does have some special knowledge of what he's up to.

Yeah.

I mean, he gets overruled by Paul, and mom is like the last one there to like comfort him and say like, you know, hey, you got to like let this play out the way he wants to because he's the captain of the ship.

But yeah, he's like

feeling some pretty strong feelings about his brother at this point.

Yeah.

And we cut back over to Enterprise where movie night has finally started.

And we learned some pretty horrific things about TePaul and Flox in this scene.

TePaul is the kind of person who fucks around on her phone in the movie theater, and Flox is a movie talker.

Pretty awful revelations about both characters.

And also, T'Paul is like not only been dicking around on her phone during the movie, but is also self-righteous when she turns back to scold Flox.

Like, no,

you weren't behaving well either.

Agreed, they're both behaving badly, but...

TePaul telling Flox to shut the fuck up felt righteous and good.

I I did like seeing that.

There was a Seinfeldian-ness to the way that line was written, too.

Yeah, I agreed.

We can't stop the film if it's disturbing your conversation.

I would love it!

It was good.

So on the bridge of the horizon, one of the crew people notices that Impulse is being rerouted.

And this is...

Something that Mayweather suggested about like how Reed tied the Impulse power into their phase cannons so that they could shoot, you know, higher yield shots.

And Paul goes down to some panel that Travis has opened up and confronts him.

And this is the scene where I wanted it to be like Travis saying, I'm starting to wonder if I need to quit Starfleet and come back and take my rightful position as leader of this ship or something.

Because he is like throwing leadership quotes at Paul.

Right.

And there's the invocation of their father and what he believed or thought about things in this scene.

That's kind of weaponized.

Both brothers use that, but in a way that I wanted more of, like in a more direct kind of way.

Like in a, dad thought you were shitty and I should have been captain kind of way.

Like,

I wanted the two brothers to fight harder than, like, like what we talked about before, like, how brothers can fight harder than any two other people who are just friends.

Like, I wanted this scene to be most representative of that.

Yeah, there should have been, like, a big, sloppy mud area in this in this bay where once Travis was done with the impulse power reroute, they could flop over into that.

Do you think they thought about having them physically fight and chose against it intentionally?

Yeah, and I'm like over here squeegee in this mud, and I could get in the middle.

I'm not usually that close to anybody, but I could like run across the mud and get in the middle and try and separate them.

Hey Egypt, what do you think about that?

Can I be back on the show?

You know more about me than Travis Mayweather.

I've been in many more shows.

My hopes, my dreams, they're all laid bare for you.

Whereas Mayweather, we mainly know that he never skips half day.

Hey, you want to know who could have been a sexual interest for Nora?

Me,

Ichib's brother.

I'll make her wet and dry.

Next time bangers land on the ship, you'll notice she is not holding on that tight.

She is looking to fall into someone.

Me, Ichab's brother.

Hey, Nora, that's not a mop handle.

I can't fucking compare it to you.

In the horizon mess hall later, mom strolls in.

What I think is funny about this scene is that everyone's facing the camera.

Like it's a row of desks in a classroom environment.

Like everyone's eating facing the same way, even though they're all like at round tables.

That was very funny to me.

There's a lunch proctor that's that's like keeping the timer and is like, okay, forks down.

Course is over.

Related to the whole like school vibes of this scene is mom having a real bad day at school energy with her son.

Like she's ready to hear all about this.

And Mayweather tells her that I should say Travis because they're both Mayweathers.

Everyone's Mayweather.

Travis tells his mom, like, you know, I'm thinking about turning this short, shore leave into an extendo leave in order to stay and help because clearly you guys need it.

And the mom, to her credit, recognizes that this would be a step back for her son and his career ambitions.

And she convinces him to reconsider.

Yeah.

She also reassures him that there's just some like some growing pains that Paul is going through as captain.

that all captains go through.

And she cites her late husband having been pretty poor at the job when he first stepped into it, having a lot to learn about leadership and

having been an engineer before that.

And Travis is like, yeah, you know, come to think of it, like the captain on my ship is like,

I mean,

we're kind of hoping he'll start to come into his own soon.

Like, he's still really learning the ropes.

It's not really clear that he has any particular aptitude for it.

And so, yeah, that's actually really reassuring.

Like, you know, like this, at least the stakes are a lot lower with Paul, you know?

Like, he, in fact, may be more gifted just naturally as a captain than the other key captain in my life, come to think of it.

It's really true.

There's a funny kind of equation that the mother figure has kind of done throughout this episode where, like, in the beginning, I was like, oh, this is gross.

Like.

decorating the room like it was when he was a child and treating him like a child.

But what that does is sort of support what she's saying saying here is that, like, look, by coming back here, it's a step backwards in every conceivable way.

Nora doesn't see you like an adult, obviously.

I mean, we could have a long talk about you and Nora's weird situation.

We'll leave that for another time.

But, like, the infantilization of returning here is something that you're able to escape by continuing down the road with your Starfleet ambition.

So, you got to stay on this road, dude.

Wow.

Grow up.

She was really playing 3D chess when she put the fucking moopsie doll in his room that's what i'm saying yeah the shit's chess it ain't checkers wow

so it's now post dinner hangs for

archer trip and to paul who are talking about the themes of frankenstein and what vulcans do to freak themselves out They in fact do have some

form of media that is meant to be horrific, but it's just about, like, can you sit through this and not have an emotional reaction to it?

But she's also very interested in the way the villagers treat Frankenstein's monster in a way that is not dissimilar from the way some humans treated Vulcans when they first came into contact.

Maybe inviting her to movie night wasn't such a great idea.

Like, I've read Frankenstein.

I haven't seen that specific movie of it.

So, like, I don't have a lot to go on in this conversation.

I kind of felt like bad that I hadn't seen it because I was like, I don't know exactly how this movie plays that because I feel like those themes are in the book.

The idea of like torches and pitchforks at the Vulcans by the humans is an interesting moment to consider.

Yeah.

Totally.

But Tripp and Archer seem like really surprised to hear that the monster might like receive any sympathy by the viewer.

So I don't know, like maybe in the movie the monster is just horrific.

I don't know.

Anyways, eruptions start on the planet, and they get to look out the window at that.

They take the ship into higher orbit.

There's like a quick reference to there being bio signs on the planet that are like coming up from deep underneath as the eruptions start that doesn't like play into anything in the episode.

I fucking love that moment.

Hey, the entire surface of this planet is exploding and getting covered in lava.

And also, I think something is alive down there.

there.

All right, let's go back over to the Horizon cargo ship.

Certainly, we'll pick this up where we left off.

Yeah.

We cut over to the Horizon ship where absolutely nothing is bubbling up and erupting

for Travis Mayweather.

Yeah, they do a cool thing where they kind of show the.

It's a little bit like the Life Aquatic, where they show the entire ship in cross-section, and you can see that Nora could not be further on the ship from Travis.

She's as far as it is physically possible to be.

Yeah.

Yeah, so the aliens are attacking them now, and this is the big cruiser that we were told about.

And they want the whole ship.

They're not just mugging them for their cargo like they did the other ones.

And Paul is like begging for mercy.

Like, we're so far from home.

Like, you can take our cargo, but just leave our ship.

And that's a no deal.

Yeah, would you say this is a negotiating strategy by him?

This felt laughable to me.

This is the moment where I feel like in a lot of shows, someone else would step up.

There's another crew person behind Paul in a lot of these scenes that kind of gets reaction shots.

Yeah.

What I wanted was that guy to go, all right, who wants to mutiny with me?

Like, this guy fucking sucks.

But no, Paul is the one that changes course.

He decides to fight back.

And there's a pretty fun, like, high-warp action sequence where they decide to cut loose their cargo, and the cargo ship becomes quite small and maneuverable when it's not got all the stuff that it's hauling, and it can really move, and Travis is able to knock out the other ship's propulsion and weps.

We gotta have weps, he's the key.

This is a big win for Captain Paul.

Yeah.

It's a big win that I don't think Paul expected because of how weak his fucking trash talk was before they link back up with the cargo and get the hell out of there.

I'll give you our cargo, but not our ship.

Like, oh, maybe refine that a little bit, Paul, before your next combat interaction.

So finally, Travis is packing up in his quarters and Paul comes by to let him know that

he's only got 20 minutes to say his goodbyes.

That's...

Not enough time to remove the alien beacon that's still stuck on the ship, though.

That's another hanging thing in this episode, along with the living beings on the lava planet.

And the story of Archer thinking he was going to become some kind of freighter captain and deciding not to.

Is there anything that we know about the crew or its abilities that makes you believe they will be able to get this thing off of their ship?

Like scrape the bottom of it with a razor blade.

No, no, Reed's going to help them.

You think so?

The last time Reed tried something like that, he got his leg punctured through and through.

That was like one of my favorite lines in the episode.

He said Reed's gonna go over there.

And like, I feel like implied in that is Reed is getting his fucking leg impaled again.

I need something to do with this shit, Commander.

Fair enough.

I'm just hoping we don't keep you quite so busy.

It's a scene that lets us know that things are going to be okay between the brothers.

And

that's, I think,

unfortunately made easier because one of them gets to stay captain and the other one is leaving.

Yeah.

And I think because there was never any friction between them over that aspect of it, this moment of peace at the end feels a little light.

Yeah.

You know?

It does.

It feels light and I think only works for me in the context of we are setting Paul up to be somebody that we see every so often.

Like, you know, if he pops up next season, like there is...

signs of improvement between them, but like potentially still a ton of friction would be an interesting way to set it it up.

But I don't think that they bring this character back, unless I'm mistaken.

And it's too bad, too, because I would like to see more friction between the cargo fleet and Starfleet.

Yeah.

You know, like I think it's interesting how there is some animosity between these two camps.

Yeah.

Travis does not tell the captain about the adventure that he had.

And that's our episode, Adam.

How did you like this episode of Star Trek Enterprise?

I think it was a little rocky for all the reasons stated.

I mean, we have been hungry for more Mayweather backstory,

and I think I came away feeling a little undernourished.

in this episode in that way.

Like, neat to meet his family.

Kind of wish the family was more interesting.

Kind of wish Mayweather left an ex-girlfriend on the ship who wondered why the hell he lit out on them.

You know, like, I wanted more conflict, and that the conflict we got was just kind of weak left me wanting.

Like, I wanted conflict from every direction for Mayweather to come home to, and not having gotten it did not help me know him any better in a way that I want to.

So,

this is definitely not a desire to see him Miles O'Brien,

you know, constantly, where his adventures end up hurting him, and that's how we get to know the character.

I just, I would like more conflicts with him so that we get to learn those things.

Yeah, I agree.

I mean, I was like making my way through this episode, and I think it was like 15 minutes in, and I had to stop to do some other work stuff before I finished watching it.

And when I came back to it, I was like

trying to

read back through my notes to like figure out like what the conflicts were and what the what the storylines were, like what what we were worried about, what we were hoping might happen.

And I was like, there's like 15 minutes into this episode, like that hasn't happened yet.

Yeah.

And I'm super down for a quiet character study episode of Star Trek.

Like I think Star Trek does those episodes really well.

And sometimes those are my favorite kinds of episodes, but I feel like this one felt like it was like close to some very interesting themes, but it didn't quite articulate them.

And so it just

didn't wind up working, you know?

When you grow up in a place and spend decades there the way Travis did, and then you leave that place, and then you go back,

you go back to more than just one problem or one

person you had a history with

or whatever.

I think that's the part of it that felt insincere to me and so written is that like

he goes back home and he has one problem and it's with his brother.

That scene with Reed in the mess hall where he's like, it's crazy when you work on a cargo ship because you work with your babysitter or whatever.

And then when we go to the cargo ship and we don't get every single scene being with someone Mayweather's got beef with or knows or what have you, that was a little bit of a letdown.

Yeah.

Like, show me all that.

Don't tell me.

Just show it to me.

Yeah.

Show it to me like two hot suns and a thick planet in between

getting warmed up.

Erupting.

Yeah.

Signs of life.

Yeah.

Signs of life we ignore.

Let's not ignore the signs of life we have in the priority one message inbox, Ben.

You want to check those out?

Let's do it.

Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on secured channel.

Need a supplemental income.

Supplemental income.

Supplemental.

Supplemental.

Yeah, it's extra.

But the interest alone could be enough to buy this ship.

No priority one messages on today's show because this episode came out during the Max Fun Drive.

But if you'd like to get a P1 on a upcoming episode of The Greatest Generation, we'd sure...

appreciate it.

It's $100 for a personal message and $200 for a commercial message.

It's available at maximumfun.org slash jumbotron.

Hey, Ben.

What's that, Adam?

Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda?

Drunk Shimoda!

Yeah,

that compendium of pictures that Trip put together made Tripp my drunk Shimoda for this episode, and in particular, the

first picture that he selected.

Travis with a blank thousand-yard stare expression.

Your mom's really gonna like some of these.

I laughed out loud when they got the close-up of the iPad.

You know what it reminded me of?

You remember, this is many years ago, but I'm still sure you remember it.

You remember when Nathan Fielder posted that picture of him?

It's just a picture of him, and he's smiling and laughing, to the point of laughing.

And the caption is, out on the town having the time of my life with a bunch of friends.

They're all just out of frame laughing laughing too.

That picture of Travis in that scene like needed a caption.

Here I am at the helm working my ass off.

All of my friends are just out of frame doing bridge stuff too.

Was the vibe of that.

Yeah.

How about you?

I'm bringing this back, Ben.

This is a video drunk Shimoda.

So if you've got the episode ready, queue it up to 15 minutes on the button.

15 on the button.

We're in the cargo bay.

And I suppose it's all cargo bay on this ship, but this is the scene where we meet Paul.

And the funniest moment to me in this whole episode is when Travis rolls up.

Paul's in the middle of doing captainly business with people.

And they're...

I'm going to need an explanation for why this happens because Paul sees his brother.

And I think, if I'm remembering this correctly, he turns around over his shoulder and he talks to this other guy.

And he's like, hey, I'll catch up with you in a few minutes, guy.

The shot reverses to that guy.

And he's like,

yep.

That reaction shot.

That's the only shot in the entire scene that's at that angle of that guy in that part of the room.

That's an entire setup for him.

It read to me like something out of the room, like Tommy Wissow

blocked this scene and made it happen.

It was like that guy we only see him once.

He's like Greg Sestero.

Like, what does it matter?

I'll catch up with you in a few minutes.

It just stuck out to me so much.

It felt like no other part in the episode, that shot, reverse shot,

and then we're back over his shoulder when Travis comes back in the room.

It felt off to me.

Because it's not the same guy as like the dude that was welding when they came in.

No.

It's just a different random guy.

Yeah, it made me feel insane.

Yeah, the script must have had like a like an interaction between Paul and that guy, like at the beginning of the scene, and then Travis comes in and they like cut that out or something.

I mean, even the dialogue, like, I'll catch up with you in a few minutes.

Felt Tommy was so to me.

Like, like, uh, hi, hi, Tommy, my favorite customer.

Here you go.

Like,

I'll catch up with you in a few minutes.

Oh, hi, Paul.

Oh, hey, Johnny, what's up?

I have a problem with Lisa.

Good one.

These are not my cargo containers.

They are not.

Faith of the fart.

Wow.

Well, let's talk about the next episode of this show and how we're going to be doing it.

The next episode is season two, episode 21, The Breach.

When militants take over a world, the Enterprise crew move to evacuate denobulin geologists that are deep underground.

And one of them's got the hots for trip.

Meanwhile, Flox has to save a dying Antarin that refuses treatment due to the history of their races.

Oh man.

Did the horny denobulins do something bad to someone?

Stay tuned to find out.

Interesting.

All right.

To find out how we will be doing that episode, I am heading to goch.biz/slash game where we keep the game of buttholes,

Will of the Riker, Quantum Leap.

We're currently on square 63, Adam.

And

I'm going to go ahead and roll this bone, see what happens.

You're required to learn as you play.

Roll.

I hope it's good.

wow i rolled a 37 which put us onto square 100

did i win hardly right past a naomi wildman square which has been kind of a beloved square lately yeah

but uh a regular old episode next week how about that you remember when episode 100 used to be uh sentry club or power hour yeah which one was it I think it was Power Hour.

I've never done a Century Club as far as I know.

Brother, you don't want to know what that's like.

I don't.

I did a Century Club before a Power Hour.

Oh,

interesting choice.

Terrible choice.

College was a delight.

You know what is a great choice, Adam?

Is supporting the greatest generation, especially during the Max Fun Drive.

100%

of viewers are being being called on to support this year.

If you're wondering whether or not you qualify as a 100%,

you do.

You do.

If you're listening to our voices right now, we're talking to you.

We got to thank Wendy Pretty, our excellent producer who edits these episodes and keeps all the plates spinning at Uxbridge Shimoda.

We got to thank Bill Tilly, our temporal Cold Wartime consigliary, who

makes amazing, hilarious trading cards about every episode.

You can catch those on the at Greatest Trek social media accounts all over the internet.

I think Instagram is where those get posted, right?

Yeah.

And guess what?

By supporting our show, you're supporting their work too.

We're talking about Rob and Bill and Wendy.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, Rob Adler running those social media accounts.

Got to thank Adam Ragusia, who made our theme music, the parody of Diane Warren's original Enterprise theme song.

And gotta thank Dark Materia for the use of the Picard song, which you hear under our voices at the end of every episode.

Thanks, Dark Materia.

Adam Ragusia, an equal number of Oscars to Diane Warren at this point.

Isn't that crazy?

Wild.

Doesn't seem right.

Yeah.

Well, you can help right that wrong by also listening to Wholesome, our patrons-only podcast, at patreon.com slash wholesome underscore pod.

I think friends of DeSoto would really like it.

I know I like it.

And with that, we will be back at you next week with another great episode of Star Trek Enterprise, an episode of Greatest Generation Enterprise where I'm trying to make Adam laugh, but he will not laugh at my jokes because of the history between our peoples.

Is that why?

I've always wondered.

All these years,

I never really thought about your people, Ben, until now.

Well,

I feel bad that I made it explicit then.

Said the quiet part out loud.

What do you mean by you people?

Make it so.

Captain, John Lu Picard, the youth said,

make it all.

You left my cargo barge, and we've been worlds apart I can't believe the things you've seen like nipples on trips arm

Baby, cause in the dark the sick man can only go so far And that's why I need you on the ECS Horizon

Because

now that we're in this scary sector And things suck like a bizarre collector I can make my eyelashes flutter while you show off your cum gutter.

Now we feel bangers more than ever.

Know that we'll still have each other.

I wanna fuck Travis Mayweather.

I wanna fuck Travis Mayweather.

Edder, Heather, eh, eh, eh.

Fuck Travis Mayweather.

Eddie, Heather, eh, eh, eh.

Fuck Travis, Mayweather.

Edder, Heather, eh, eh, eh.

Fuck Travis Mayweather, Heather, eather, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh.

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