Nebulesis (ENT S3E21)

Here's to the finest crew in starving.

When it comes to my crew, you won't get any argument from me.

This is a parody.

Paramount owns the sun.

Welcome to the greatest generation.

It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys just a little bit embarrassed about.

Having a Star Trek podcast.

I'm Adam Pranica.

I'm Ben Harrison.

You growing in your mustache?

Your mustache is looking uh a little more burly than I'm used to seeing it.

I think folks on the stream are noticing as well.

Yeah,

seeing a lot of emotes.

Is that what those are called?

In the stream?

Is this intentional mustache growing or is this incidental?

You know what I did?

I looked at...

What's the...

Burt Reynolds.

What's the handsome gentleman that played Superman, not this time, but the last time?

Oh, the guy who reloads his arms in bathrooms.

Yeah.

Love that guy.

I looked at a picture of him and I was like, oh, he's got kind of the scrubbly stubble thing going, but he kind of lets it go thicker in the stash.

And then like down around here, it's a little thicker.

And you're touching the part of your face below the mustache, I see.

Yeah, like he gets the chin

shorter, but then like beside the chin, it goes a little longer.

And I was trying to do that, but then I kind of blew it and I wound up having to do all but mustache at the shorter length.

You have observed something maybe

I've known but never articulated before, which was like most people go for like the uniformity of facial hair.

Yeah.

Now that I'm looking at your face, there's like a greater presence to the mustache and less so for everything else, and it really makes a difference.

He does it so much better than I ever could.

It almost goes without saying.

My barber, who I've been going to for years now,

Last time I was there was like, hey, can I just like deal with your facial hair a little bit?

Like, I'm not going to charge you for this.

I just, there's like a couple of things that I've been wanting to do.

Wow.

We have a very trusting relationship.

And I was like, I've been begging you for years to just like have your way with me.

I know that you know.

Finally, the payoff to a long-term barber-client relationship.

So he showed me like where to get the line on the on the neck, you know, like

where you start going for short, because because you don't want to just like let it beard down your neck.

Sure, I don't exactly know what I'm going for.

I mean, I obviously know all these things, but these are good things to know for FODs out there listening and watching.

He got me looking great.

This is a Wednesday.

Thursday, I become extremely sick, and it just like is totally useless.

I get to have my nicely lined up facial hair for no social functions, no time out in public.

You're just pouting in a wedding dress.

Literally.

I put on a wedding dress, got in bed, and have been there basically ever since.

Today is another Wednesday.

It's a week later.

Is that what's wrong with Ben this time?

What's wrong with Ben this time?

Yeah, man, I'm on antibiotics.

I've been suffering.

You've been off gallivanting in Seattle, having fun with friends.

I know.

A mustache-free situation for me

up in Seattle.

Well, you know.

Completely unaware of your struggles.

You got friend of the show, Ty

pulling off the mustache weight up there in Seattle.

Oh, don't forget Phil.

Phil's got a strong mustache as well.

Phil does too.

Yeah, but Phil, Phil.

I've surrounded myself with mustaches.

Why have I done this?

I don't know.

I don't know why you do the things you do.

Many of them are very mysterious to me.

But yeah,

so I woke up this morning.

I was like fully grown in and I was like, I got to do

cock your arms like a gun in a bathroom fight guy, facial hair, because I saw how nice his beard looked in that picture.

I don't know how to look, the clipper, I'm not an expert.

Now I'm going to go to my barroom and be like, is this even a tree I should be barking up?

You know, with a mustache like that, you look like you're ready for all kinds of action in bathrooms, Ben.

Well, we need to be ready for action on a day like today, Adam, because we rolled something last time on the show.

I believe that I had the hundred-sided dice in my hand, and I threw that suka,

through that some bitch, and it landed us on a brown zone square.

Sure did.

I take it, you're in charge here, team leader bro, fourth boy defense contingent.

I gotta get a puck.

That's it, get it.

One of the beloved squares on the game that we play.

Another reminder for me that, like, speaking other languages, not a strength of mine.

I don't have

like my wet paper bag of a brain just does not hold the vocabulary in like it needs to.

I need to take so many notes to just make this make sense for me.

I can't come up, I can't improvise Vory stuff for what we do.

Last time we did this, I decided it would be easier for me to wing it and just have the memory alpha page about the Vori language open.

Yeah, how'd that work?

Not the Wikipedia page about the Vori language, because that's actually a real language somewhere.

Yeah.

And there's a Wikipedia entry about it, but the Memory Alpha one is about

all of the backwalking and wrestling tremblings to rages and credit beasts and whatnot.

Right.

And so that was the one I had open.

And I don't think I did did a great job last time.

I have regrets, I would say.

I mean, it sounds like this time you're going to do great, and I'm going to be disappointing.

Oh, so

are you going on the fly this time?

I thought I would, just because, like.

Interesting.

I have no facility for this.

Yeah.

What all I did was I went through my notes and like tried to edit.

my notes a little bit with some i've never thought of a funny thing ahead of time you know

and that is practically all I do, Ben.

Let's see how this combination plays out as we recap the episode of the day.

It's Enterprise Season 3, Episode 21, and it's called E

Squared.

Gotta be a speech and guitar.

In the cold open, we get an extremely gray TePaul

hearing the tellings from a much younger Vulcan dude about that Zindi weapon that he says has gone into the vortex before they could stop it.

Uh-oh.

Everything is happening as it did before.

Yeah.

Which means once again, seven million people have died on Earth.

All along the watchtower starts playing.

Really alienating the audience that has loved the show for a long time and expecting some sort of resolution to the story.

First time in Star Trek Enterprise history that a song played on the show has alienated the audience.

Amazing that the solution to a terrifying problem is finding Jonathan Archer.

And that is exactly what Gray TePaul suggests here.

We are into and out of our cold open as fast as that.

Really, really short cold open.

It's a classic kind of open to a lot of things, though, right?

Like, here's the problem, find the guy.

Yeah, yeah.

It's, I mean, you know what it is, is the cold open to a movie trailer from the night.

Yes, you know, it absolutely is.

Like, what Van Dam character is, is this Jonathan Archer you're talking about?

You're going to have to bust Jonathan Archer out of prison and then break him back into the rock.

So it's a new light.

Or is it?

We're in TePaul's quarters again, glimpsing candles again.

yeah but this time she's not gray she's regular

which i'm sure is a vory terminology that just didn't i'm so glad you said it because that's where i'm my brain snapped i was like regular that's got to mean something right and i flicked through the notes i was like regular's not here

regular's not anywhere

Everyone, Ben, is still so dirty.

No one has time to go to a bathroom.

Here's the thing.

Everyone's going to the bathroom.

You know they are because people have to go to the bathroom.

No one's washing their hands and no one's washing their face.

That's what I learned from this scene.

Do you think what happened is like, you know, like I have a friend who's like got a kid a little bit older than mine and she went through a nursery school year where there was a full-blown fashion among one class of like 30 kids that all of the girls wanted to wear the longest skirt possible.

And that was like

all any of the the girls wanted to do was wear a very long skirt.

Was there a skirt measuring contest where they like one person wanted to have the longest?

Yeah, like I think that's kind of how it was.

And like your whole social capital was, oh, did you not show up in a very long skirt today?

Hmm.

So I'm wondering if Archer's little experience with getting Zindibug juice squirted on his face.

We have to help these children.

has started a little bit of a trend among the Enterprise crew.

Yeah, a real Billy Madison

faking like he pissed his pants situation.

Now everyone's looking like they got bug juice out of him.

Having a dirty face is cool.

Consider me as Miles Davis.

Oh,

that was the grossest thing I've ever heard in my life.

Hey, don't make it too dirty.

That'll get you canceled.

Tripp wants her to tend him, but

she is, I mean, like, you know, coming from a place of,

you know, a little bit of a glass house throwing stones place, TePaul is concerned that he's a little bit hooked on the Vulcan rub down situation.

And it could be one of two things, right?

Like, there seems to be a clear amount of TePaul avoiding Trip Tucker, but is it, like, the business of Vulcan Euro pressure, or is it the weird social vibes they're feeling after they fucked?

Right.

And he explains that, in fact, what it is, is that he's got trembles about her being all reclusive-like.

Tipol, I've been thinking about your spheres ever since that night we spent together.

You upturned me and downturned me in all kinds of ways.

I didn't know what direction I was facing.

I like them shrouded.

I like them unshrouded.

It's just it's just a delay.

You've been acting all messed up towards me in the soon after.

She's been very reclusive and he just wants to see if there's anything he can do to help.

This isn't about anything else.

This isn't, you know, this isn't a sex thing.

I'm just here

in good faith to see if I can help you out of whatever funk you're in.

And she's like, I don't want to date you, Trip.

I was just doing experiments on what it's like to nail a human.

Wow, it's real romantic when you put it that way.

And now that I have my experimental results, I don't need you anymore.

I think it's important to know that Tripp does not know that she's been dealing with her drug withdrawal problem.

Right.

And if you're looking at this from some position of omniscience, like that's a big, big part of this.

He doesn't know the fullness of what's going on with her.

And she's being sly, isn't she?

She is being a little bit sly.

She's been on the sly side of things.

Yeah.

And yet he is perceptive enough to notice how sly she's being.

And he's toiling to try and make an offer of friendly help.

And she tells him to let go.

There is no resolution really at the end of this scene.

Instead, we cut over to the command center where the gray staff.

See, I'm going to call the senior staff the gray staff.

Oh, I like that.

That's kind of tortured, right?

Yeah.

I mean, a little confusing because there's also Gray TePaul

in another place, but I think we should go with it because, you know, like every language has its strengths and its weaknesses, and this is one of the areas where the Vori language just struggles a little bit.

They're checking out the ships they were warned about before heading into the Nebular.

Degra, as you might remember, has directed them to go here, but also gave them a warning about what they'd find inside.

It's Nebula Nemesis, Adam, and there are more of them than Degra maybe implied initially in these trunks.

Nebulicus?

That's too confusing.

We're going to try it, though.

Hey, you know what?

If next week I don't refresh the Vori language section on Memory Alpha and see Nebulisus, I'm very disappointed in The Friends of DeSoto.

I think we can get this added to the list.

My disappointment in The Friends of DeSoto will have to do with me booting up Reddit or something on the day this episode drops and not finding a movie poster for Star Trek Nebulas,

where instead of our primary actors from Star Trek Nemesis, it is instead that guy from the Vory episode and maybe a really old gray TePaul.

Is it team leader Brone with Tom Hardy's face like Photoshop Don?

Not quite the face you remember.

Not quite.

Speaking of the Zindi, we get a little hang with some of them,

the Arboreals and the Primates, and they're pretty pissed that Degra told Archer where to find the council.

And

Degra is pretty passionately arguing for letting Archer come before the council to argue his case.

You know, maybe he's not the beast.

Maybe he's not the nemesis that we've been led to believe.

This isn't a scene where trembles are being turned to rages.

This is a scene where Degra is like kind of anti-rage, trying to suppress the rages, if possible.

But it's also being pointed out to him that like you don't control what all of the other species do, and they're going to fucking kill him before he even gets here.

Yeah.

And he's like, all right, well, why don't we fast walk to the cluster mark where the entrepreneur is coming out of the nebula corridor, and we'll defend them.

We'll greet them brightly.

We'll bring them right here.

It's another in a long line of like very passive moves that Degra and company has made because he can't unilaterally make these decisions for the council, right?

Right.

He wasn't elected with a mandate, as it were.

You know, he's got to sort of build coalition.

So the entrepreneur comes up on this nebular, and I was really surprised at how gray it was after the pink graphics that we saw on screen.

I'm a little confused by this.

Are you saying that it's old?

Well, I don't know if it's old because it's gray.

So does that mean it's old or does that just mean it's gray?

In a

deep space context, isn't everything gray?

Ben?

You know what?

I think

we've fathomed something pretty deep at this point.

It is the weirdest thing for Enterprise to hold short on the doorstep of this thing and have another NX-class starship head right for them.

They're talking about maybe this is the NX-02?

Like, did they send that and they're just getting to us to help?

I'm thinking, because we've watched so much new Star Trek in the last few years, is this a Mirror Universe NX Enterprise?

I don't know what's happening here.

It is not.

It is an even more fucked up version of their very own ship.

It's like all of the battle damage that they have plus 117 years more battle damage.

And the captain of this ship wants them to backwalk away from the nebula and says that there's no time to explain.

This is that older Falcon gentleman that Gray TePaul was talking to earlier.

If you're the crew of the Enterprise and you're getting this warning to get the hell away from here by your own ship, are you more scared of what they're warning you about or are you more scared of this Enterprise?

Like, it's hard in this moment to to tell what the real threat is because I don't trust these guys in the beginning.

Yeah.

They're not even wearing fleet colors, you know?

Like this guy's just in like TNG away mission peasant costume.

When they first meet, most of the conversation is about what happened to the colors and like eventually you stop doing laundry long enough where the garment just kind of disintegrates over a period of time.

There was a bit of a fashion early on where like we just weren't bathing or cleaning ourselves and the clothing just kind of rotted away eventually.

And

so, that's kind of how that trend came to its natural conclusion.

That's why, when that enterprise docks with this one and the door rolls open, it is like, Oh, God,

oh no,

oh,

you've never seen somebody step onto your own ship and say, This place is a tomb, yeah.

If we change the words,

then it's fair use all day long.

This guy, Lorian, comes aboard and greets them brightly.

He also introduces his first officer, Karen Archer.

And she's got some unusual loaf that we haven't seen before.

If Benjamin R.

Harrison were introduced to some strangers who told you they had...

vital information, and in this group of people, a person was introduced to you using first and last names, and say maybe this lady's last name was R.

Harrison.

Would your first move be to ask a follow-up question or take the group to a conference room?

I wanted fucking Archer to stop right there and ask.

What?

Karen Archer?

That's my last name.

What's that about?

What a funny coincidence.

Where are you from?

So they're warned if you go through that corridor in the nebular you will be thrown back from the now

117 years into the way before

which I'm guessing would be Vory for the vast

The thing is these tellings are not sufficiently convincing.

We must get a flashback so that we can see

Where are we?

Captain, the stars

They're not where they're supposed to be.

Maybe there's a way we can use this to our advantage.

How?

Unclear whether or not Archer and everyone else in the conference room can see this flashback or if it's just for our benefit?

You think that's bad?

This is like that time I tried to go through the the nebula corridor and the nebulacists attacked me and chased me into a time hole.

There is nothing understandable about the impression you did or the references of it that anyone that's not an FOD would understand.

Let's use, hey, hey, Rob, let's use this as the clip for this week's episode.

Just fucking challenge people on social media to see what the fuck this podcast even is.

I sir.

I was struck in the flashback about just how saving private Riony it was.

Like the stroby frame rate effect of it.

Yeah.

I thought was like right over the plate for a saving private Ryan uh war movie scene.

Right.

Like war movie flashback is what they're going for and and what they're hitting.

They explain like the theory is that there was something about the impulse wake of the entrepreneur that caused the corridor to turn into a time hole instead of just a fast forward hole.

And they couldn't go back through.

It's like one-way trip.

Once you go through this thing, you cannot go back to the present.

The description of the corridor that Lorian gives to the group is like, the ship went into this thing and it just thrashed it going through it.

And it made the corridor not really usable for a period of time.

And TePaul shoots Trip Tucker a look, like kind of a knowing look.

Like, he's supposed to get it, but I don't think Trip Tucker's getting getting it, is he?

I don't think I'll be taking home the Nobel Prize anytime soon.

No,

he doesn't really glimpse the fullness of what

is being described here.

Seems to have maybe

a bit of a shortcoming in terms of empathizing with that as a situation.

But yeah, so they're like talking about it

117 years in the past.

And they're like, well, we can't go back to Earth because that would fuck up the timeline there.

But maybe we can figure out a way to prevent the attack in the now.

And if not for us, for our descendants.

So, like, they talk about how they sort of reimagined the NX01 as a generation ship that would kind of bide its time and look for an opportunity to cut off the Xindi attack like 110 years later.

My dad spent the rest of his life

getting thrown into and then breaking out of jails just for

years and years just waiting.

What a weird passive plan to go back in time and decide, nope, I'm just going to wait and then I will warn.

I know, because it's like, couldn't you just kill Space Hitler?

Like, Degra's going to be a baby at some point in that period.

It's what makes the failure that we see in the cold open

to actually send the warning about the test weapon so much more galling.

Like, you had hundreds of years to prepare for this moment.

You knew exactly where and when things were going to happen and you blew it.

You blew it.

That may be why Archer and TePaul are not completely convinced by their tellings.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we cut back to the present and Lorian is like, we're going to help you stop the attack by souping up your engines.

Like we can get you guys going like a couple of warp factors faster with all of the technology we've been able to trade for over these last several decades.

So you don't need to even go through this nebula and meet the nebulasis.

You can go around and still get to your rendezvous on time.

Yeah, I mean, you don't even need a corridor to do what you want to do.

You can just like...

mess around with the spheres, maybe go in between those for a while.

But Archer and Tepal want a little bit more verification.

So we go to Six Bay and Flox opens up a big manila envelope and tells Archer, you are the father's father.

It's interesting how, up until this point, wasn't Archer kind of made to

feel like Degra and company?

Like in the whole, I don't believe

what those people are telling me until I'm given proof sufficient to prove it.

Big claims require big proof.

And Degra's little buddies are going through a similar credulity challenge.

We learned that Lorian's daddy is Trip Tucker.

The corridor was fixed.

Wait, I got a question.

Who technically gave birth to Lorian?

Because,

you know, pregnancy is it.

I have a complicated relationship with it as a thing.

And maybe I should be more empathetic to holes being wrecked in that way because of that.

Is there any way there could be a sort of arm-based pregnancy and delivery

between a human and a Vulcan?

Has anybody gotten a good whiff of Lorien?

What does he smell like?

Does he smell like these pits, Doctor?

I think it's very funny how much credit Dr.

Flox takes for the great medical discovery of Vulcans and humans procreating.

But the detail he leaves out is whether or not he invented a medical intervention sufficient to like allow this to happen or if he failed to invent a sort of plan V necessary to stop the pregnancy.

We don't know that.

Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't seem like he nullied a pregnancy.

No.

But like, I mean, I guess Sarek owes him a huge debt of gratitude.

Or does he?

I mean, Sarek never really seemed to like completely

love his son that much.

No.

Maybe his other son he liked.

Yeah.

But

yeah, weird.

Weird because Sarek is always bagging earth baddies, but doesn't seem to like the kids they shit out.

Maybe if I sent Sarek a bottle of these pills,

his family planning would be far easier.

It's sort of funny.

They're diamond shaped, but they are green.

Not blue.

So Archer's Log tells us that he's approved the plan to do the modifications of the engines and in engineering.

Trip Tucker and son are collaborating on doing these mods and they're getting along great.

Yeah.

And the cats in the cradle in the silver spoon.

Little boy Blue and the man on the moon.

It's so weird because, like, Trip is not a Vulcan and a little country sounding.

And like, his curiosity about

his son seems so loaded with

the emotion you'd expect from a father who wants to know his son, but also knows the danger of knowing your son too well because of paradoxes and so forth.

Yeah.

It's a heartwarming scene where you sort of wonder who is drilling whom.

You know, the older son or the younger father, who we learn passed away when Lorian was 14, but did a really nice job before that.

He was a good dad before that.

Was he like old dad?

Because like, because, you know, with Tepal at this point, and, you you know, gray TePaul, presumably like three, four hundred years old, right?

Like, we, yeah, yeah, we know that TePaul is super old.

We don't exactly know how old, but I'm wondering if Tripp was like, you know, 75 years old or something when they finally got around to conceiving.

I got a young man's arm nipples and a billionaire's dick.

Hey, Lorian, you want to play play some catch with your old man?

The ball comes back and his arm just falls off.

Archer gets a tour of the other ship, the even more fucked up entrepreneur from Karen Archer, his great-granddaughter.

And she tells him about how much Phlox used to fuck.

Many of our crew are descendants of Flox.

He and Amanda had nine children.

Yeah,

he attempted to single-handedly repopulate the ship with all the children that he made.

Yeah.

And also about how Archer married an Ikaran woman.

And I was like, Ikarin?

Karen?

Ikarin?

Karen?

Is that why her name is Karen?

Yeah.

Yep.

Think so.

I, Karen?

Yes.

One of my favorite Asimov novels.

What a scene over there.

Kids and olds playing.

Totally oblivious to the stink.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

They haven't been by the airlock.

They haven't smelt what the other ship has dealt.

Legally, it's just a far jump.

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You will never take the greatest kid alive.

Ben would rather die.

Rather die.

What?

The whole double enterprise thing explains why when Archer was interrogated, how he was asked over and over again how many Federation starships were stuck in the Expanse, right?

Didn't you start to puzzle that together?

Right.

There have been unverified censor indications that the Zindi have picked up that indicate to them that perhaps there are other Federation ships in the Expanse, and this is why.

Degra's warning, though, to Archer was that there's a denobulin in there that will fuck all of your women.

Like,

that's the true danger.

I mean, the ship, mildly threatening.

It is very damaged, but there's a denobulin on board.

Holy moly.

Our scientists refer to him as the denobulin fuck machine, and

you know, we're just asking you to be careful about that.

He's a denobulin fuck machine, and he keeps his giant shoes on during.

Surprise, Archer.

You're meeting Gray Tapal,

who you didn't even know was over here.

She wants to know about Trip,

and she also wants Archer to take this iPad from her to pass off to his science officer.

That's just regular TePaul, right?

Yeah.

Yep.

Archer takes the pad, and it's just like

Canasta.

I was trying to think of an old-person game, but I kind of

stalled out there.

Yeah.

I thought you were going to say I was horseplaying saxophone.

How great is Julian Blaylock at playing old here?

I was really impressed by this because it feels like it would be so easy to go too far with the shakes and the groans getting up and sitting down and so forth.

Like she was really not cartoonish about it in a way that gave this role some serious weight.

I liked it.

Did you feel like there was a very different loaf on her in these scenes versus in the cold open?

Because in the cold open, I was like, whoa, that is really rough, like

TNG, Dr.

McCoy level old age.

And then in these scenes, I was like, oh, no, it's actually like pretty good.

And I was wondering if it was like a lighting change or if they'd like redone the loaf but didn't have time to reshoot everything or what.

I wonder if you got more used to it too.

The more time it's on screen the more you kind of settle for it maybe so yeah you become loaf accustomed we cut to the mess hall where hoshi and mayweather talk about who their future selves dick down and when reed rolls up and and they ask him about who his future self fucked

The answer is very sad.

You'd think on a ship quite this size, I would have been able to find someone, but...

Yeah.

Reed does not exactly have a gloried future.

Presumably, he died upturned on the version of the entrepreneur that went through the time who

he was made 50 years a cuck and then he died.

Like, everyone is desperate to procreate, and no one will fuck Reed.

It's incredible.

You know, finding your ship explains a few things.

It appears as though I missed the target in just so many ways.

I loved the Steve McQueen film 50 Years a Cuck, by the way.

Maybe the best movie I've ever seen.

How great is it that Hoshi and Mayweather just do not want to be around that energy?

Like, as soon as they recognize what's happened here, they are like, there is no fixing this social situation.

No.

I would rather take a shower right now than do this conversation in this moment.

The least cool thing you can do in our social situation right now is take a shower, and that's what I'm going to go do rather than hang around wet blanket Reed.

See you later, sir.

How about Reed once they go, though?

Like, immediately catching eyes with a babe.

Well, I better get all of these turn downs started now.

It's so fucking aspirational to be like, no, like, I refuse to take like a defeat as an answer.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna fucking find my way out of this.

My dick will not go into this good night.

I will dump into a willing partner.

TePaul reports back to Archer on what's on this iPad.

And the bad news is Lorian's plan of souping up the entrepreneur's engines won't work and could blow up the damn ship.

But maybe we can do the original plan of going through

the space butthole with modified impulse manifolds, and we won't go into the hereafter or whatever.

Tapal kind of uncomfortably shifts her weight like

she's still feeling some pain from the whole trip situation.

Yeah, she's got the trembles downstairs.

I mean, the mods to do that are only going to take 12 hours.

And given the decision between exploding the ship and doing this, it seems pretty obvious which direction they need to go.

They've been toiling on Lorian's plan, and pretty soon they are toiling on Gray TePaul's plan.

And Lorian catches wind of this and does not think that this is very sharp.

I think it's because he wanted his idea to be gloried, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, he's Vulcan, but he's also human, and he's got a little bit of a fucking ego on him.

The confrontation here is great because Archer's like, you know, if there was a chance that Enterprise Enterprise would explode you know by going too fast it's good to know a percentage chance of that if you're the captain and when that percentage is greater than one percent I would like to know which is why when 22 percent is the truth of the risk yeah that's pretty big it feels uh like too high a risk How about Lori, though, being like, the reason I didn't tell you about the percentage was both because I wanted to be gloried for the plan, but also being destroyed is better than the lives we've led.

Yikes.

Yeah.

He would like, you know, engineering help from Lorian's people, but Lorian kind of focuses all his energy on how mad he is at Grey to Paul.

This was exactly the moment in the episode once we started getting these conflicts where I was like, why is no one talking about the idea that if this or any of the plans work, that Lorian's timeline ceases to exist?

The paradoxiness does not seem to be on anybody's mind in a way that felt strange.

Yes.

I think in other time travel episodes, people take a moment to talk about what will happen to

one or the other of the time travelers that have met in a timeline.

There's a sharing of a Polaroid picture with a couple of people in it in various stages of disappearing.

You might go to a diner with your counterpart who recently, you know, decided not to execute you and have a conversation about how annoying that is.

I don't want to talk about time travel shit.

Because if we start talking about it, then we're going to be here all day talking about it, making diagrams with straws.

Trip Tucker might accidentally fuck Gray TePaul.

Your corridor, I I can barely feel it.

There's no way I could damage this corridor.

Tipal, are you awake?

So Lorian has decided that he's going to fast walk his own ship to the cluster mark with Degra

and take matters into his own hands with Degra.

But they're going to have to steal warp plasma injectors from the less fucked up entrepreneur in order to do that.

And

he really feels that, like, if they don't do this, the earth will be nullied.

So, you know,

as much as it breaks his heart to do this to his own ship and his own ancestors, that's what he feels he must.

For the viewer, I wonder if this betrayal feels a little more okay, given that Jonathan Archer himself did this very thing not that long ago.

Did you think about that here?

Like, absent that, I think this is

such a huge offense.

It's dirty and awful to even suggest it.

But Archer just did it.

Yeah, Archer just did this.

This is established practice in this, in the expanse.

Like, stealing from a thief suddenly feels

okay.

Right.

Right.

I loved the staging of this scene because they're having this kind of close, hushed conversation, Lorian and his co-conspirators aboard his ship.

And they've got all these like vertical things in front of the camera that are kind of in soft focus, but they have blinky lights on them.

Yeah.

It just, I don't know.

It like it was a nice little element that lent to the closeness and secretiveness of the scene.

This is a Roxanne Dawson episode, so

not a surprise that there's something else going on with these compositions.

Yeah.

Soon after, Trip Tucker and TePaul talk about the son they'll have together in the future and the beachy details of the wedding that they'll have.

Who would have thought?

You and me, huh?

And T'Paul is not trying to play this game because future events aren't certain.

She's like pretty new to the idea of time travel being possible in the first place

and

is also just like not down with the you've developed an emotional attachment to me Trip Tucker-ness of the conversation.

She would never because she's Vulcan.

Just because he's busted in her cluster mark doesn't mean there's anything long-term that has to happen here.

Yeah.

That doesn't make him sharp forever.

No.

Meanwhile, in engineering, a heist is afoot, and Trip kind of just stumbles into this because their defenders don't sly themselves when they're doing their warp injector heist.

What a bad time Trip chooses to enter the scene, right?

I love that Trip goes into like fatherly advice mode with Lorian.

And let me tell you, son.

Lorian, you can't just take my car.

You got to ask to borrow it first, and you got to tell me where you're going.

I got to check if you're even on my insurance.

I mean, it's probably right because you're like in my household, but I don't know.

This is all new to me.

Trip gets shot for his trouble here.

Lorian not trying to hear him in this exact moment.

He's like, you're not even my real dad because you haven't been through a time vortex and shot 117 years into the past.

I mean, like, technically speaking, you are the person that will become my real dad, but not yet.

I'm older than you even.

You know how fucked up that makes me feel?

It's like if DePaul married someone else after you died and that person was younger than me and I still have to call him dad.

Would you like that?

It's fucked up, man.

Fuck you.

And so he shoots him.

Yeah.

Archer is on the bridge when the heisters are trying to escape and the gray entrepreneur is...

trying to get out of there and Archer wants to null eat their warped nacelles so that they can't go.

And this this is a very even fight, you know, like two perfectly evenly matched ships.

It's like when you play Street Fighter Championship Edition and both of you choose Chun Li.

Right.

It just comes down to strategy.

Sure.

Yeah.

And, you know, who can mash those buttons the best.

Yeah.

And that's an interesting question, right?

Like, I mean, these guys have had their hands on this ship for a lot longer.

Weren't you disappointed in Grey Enterprise's ability

to fight here, given that

no wonder they let the Zindi weapon get past him.

They kind of suck at this.

They don't have Starfleet training, you know.

Like, the fight is really rough, and the entrepreneur regular loses weps, but Tepal has gone down to the transporter controls and just started beaming critical ship systems out of the gray entrepreneur.

I love that.

So they stopped being able to do anything.

They just never thought of that.

And so Archer signals the other ship and is like, hey, we could trade back.

You could give us our plasma injectors again and we can give you

your manifolds and whatnot.

Lorian's got one last torpedo, and that's his leverage.

He's got to think about it.

He is made to think differently by Karen Archer, though.

Karen Archer does not want to keep fighting and threatens to stop Lorian by force.

Yeah, she actually does ask to speak to Lorian's manager.

And he's like, I guess that's great to pull.

I mean,

I'm not really sure how that works.

Lorian stands down and arranges a meeting with Archer, which takes place in the brig.

I love how he's like, so is your brig booked?

Maybe we could do this over there.

Was Lorian acting logically?

Is

the question in this scene?

Attacking your ancestors doesn't sound very logical to me.

You wouldn't understand.

I think the answer is no.

He's like, I feel responsible for what happened to Florida.

And

he explains, like, we could have kamikazed our ship into the test probe and stopped the destruction of Florida, but I didn't because of my weak-ass human emotions.

My fucking trembles got in the way of everything.

Lorian is revealed to be a full Lenny here.

You had a hundred years to prepare for this moment and your big idea was collision course.

And then when the moment comes, you flinch?

Lorian sucks at this.

Maybe he should shroud himself in the brig, but Archer is too much of an attaboy type captain.

And he's like, man, like, brush yourself off.

I need your help, man.

You're not in jail anymore.

I know if you get the chance, you'll ram your ship into that planet-killing weapon.

But in the meantime, why don't you help me get my enterprise through the corridor in exchange for your freedom?

That seems like a pretty good deal to Lorian, right?

It's a new light for Lorian, indeed.

So regular Tepal goes and pays a visit to Gray Tapal.

And interesting moment.

I I thought the eye lines were a little messed up in the scene, but the fact that the camera is like moving around and Jolian Blaylock is like handing stuff back and forth to herself was really impressively done.

Yeah.

Like overall, one of the better two characters in a scene being played by one actor that we've ever gotten in Star Trek.

Agreed.

They're kind of talking through the last details of how to fix up the impulse drive so that it doesn't cause this go back into the past accident this time.

And it's just like some techno-babble shit.

It's icebreaker stuff, right?

Because what Gray TePaul really wants to talk about is the younger TePaul's Trellium addiction.

Yeah, you still got those Trellium trembles.

And it looks like those are trembles that you can't ever totally wrestle to rages.

But there is a way to channel those trembles and rages into something positive.

Take your emotional frustrations out on Trip's pelvis.

Trip

can be an outlet for these feelings.

You've got to nully that D, TePaul.

Yeah.

I know this is a lot to fathom right now.

You got to have your trembles dick down.

Here's a question for you, Ben.

Yeah.

Would you accept or reject advice given to you by your future self?

Because in the Tepal context, there is the whole squishy feelings about time travel, but also when confronted with undeniable truth like your future gray self, like you got to believe that part of it.

But like if you truly do believe in free will, the advice you're given by you could be very manipulative, right?

Your future self has all sorts of reasons to try to tell you to do something that you wouldn't ordinarily do.

I don't know if I trust me

from the future.

I think that if I imagine my present self talking to my past self, my past self was too much of an arrogant dickhead to hear any of the good advice that present me would be able to give that guy.

It seems like past Ben needs a little bit of an ass kicking by present Ben.

Yeah, so I wonder if present me

would be any better at hearing what future me has to say.

Oh, interesting or if as the years go by you're just less and less open to the advice given to you by future self yeah yeah

like time-traveling future ben harrison like comes back in time and he's like i didn't go back far enough nope i didn't go back far enough still

god

These guys are so stubborn.

I was looking for putty and I got fucking granite.

This sucks.

Also, like, it seems strange statistically that they're all sick.

Like

everyone I visit.

I'm just picking these, these dates and times out of a hat.

And it's like, fucking get yourself together, man.

I'm going to start taking vitamins with me on these visits.

So they head into the cloud for real this time.

And we start to get like Mutara Nebula style flickers on the screen.

It's really messing with sensors.

And like we learned in an earlier scene that part of the idea was that they can shroud themselves somewhat by going through a certain part of the nebula and make the nebulus

less able to track them because of sensor echoes and shit like that.

But pretty quickly, the nebulosis catch them and surprise, it was actually both entrepreneurs going in.

They were flying in tight formation.

A cluster, maybe?

Yeah, I guess so.

So we get,

you know, like I think there's three nebulosises and

two entrepreneurs fighting this time.

And that surprise is enough to scare them away initially.

But the primary drive coil gets knocked out on the regular entrepreneur.

And the gray entrepreneur goes and tractor beams them while they get attacked by four nebulosises.

And I was like nobody's talking about tractor beam like this is fucking huge like Reed should be like going absolutely crazy like they figured out a way to do this with energy and not metal there's there's some sort of laser grappler that has got us in its energy claw

I know this makes me sound like a novice, but what a sharp invention.

They're all surprisingly chill about this tractor, B.

Yeah.

Thanks for the lift.

We'll see you on the other side.

I think it's because they got their hands so full.

The Nebuluses are just dropping all sorts of bangers onto him.

And once they realize that maybe a strategic victory isn't going to work, Lorian changes his plan.

Yeah.

He tells Archer's Enterprise, look, I'm going to just like

do that thing that you do on an inner tube when you're dragged behind a boat.

I'm just going to kind of crack the whip

and your Enterprise is going to coast into this corridor.

Yeah.

He turns and kind of fights a rear guard action of a defender while the regular entrepreneur coasts through that hole

and they come out the other side having traveled 11.6 light years

and not backwalked in time.

The stars are in the right place.

The other guys just don't show up.

They never show up to the cluster mark.

They're waiting for the gray entrepreneur to come through.

And then

Archer and TePaul have a little conversation.

Like, did

those guys even exist?

Because we went, like, did we, did we nully

their entire existence by going through the hole and not traveling back in time?

Hard to say.

Hard to say if the paradox is resolved or if they went into the hereafter, like fighting off the nebulas

to defend us and let us complete our mission.

They don't get too long to consider this,

the possibilities of this, before Degra rolls up and greets because they are at the time and place that they plan to meet each other.

And that's the end of the episode.

What a weird tone to end with.

Yeah.

You're early?

Like,

it's funny because it's like the entire time it's like, oh, are we going to make this?

Are we going to make this in time?

Like, we got to decide whether we're going around the nebula, we're going through it, we're going back in time.

Oh, we, we, after all that, we got here early, yeah.

And like, given the time traveling nature of this thing, like, does being late or early even matter in any sort of context?

Did we time travel a little bit, and that's why we're here early?

Yeah, just a little tiny bit of time travel,

not so much that you would notice, but enough to like make a difference in punctuality.

I don't mind doing a little bit of time travel if it's the weekend.

Did you like this episode, Ben?

I can't pay.

Couldn't for late.

Got okay.

Tempting fate.

Yeah, I think it's an interesting one.

Interesting challenge to our characters.

I guess I don't understand the decision that they make when they first go back in time.

Like, let's just hang out for 117 years.

Yeah.

I'm going to save save my comments for my term, but holy shit,

really bad.

You got to swallow a lot to swallow that.

Because like, you know, this is in the post-Voyager era where like accepting a generation ship life sentence was like a no fucking way to

Starfleet officers.

And it's just...

hard to imagine them going like, well, I guess we'll hang out.

Like, you know, find some

trading to do.

Never fix the ship up much.

Like, all of that is tough to swallow, but if you're able to set it aside, I like the challenge that it presents to the entrepreneur and to the gray entrepreneur when we get that.

So, yeah,

I guess mixed feelings, but overall, I enjoyed the episode.

How about you?

I think you're right that the problem is every other experience we've had seeing time travel stories told in science fiction, that makes a decision that goes something like, on the one hand,

the extermination of the human race and the destruction of our home planet versus an unknowable pollution to the timeline.

Right, right.

If I know the one thing to be a certainty and the other thing to not be a certainty, I'm polluting the timeline.

I'm saving the planet.

How is that even a question?

And that this episode doesn't even have the curiosity to give us a scene where, like, give us the flashback to that.

Help me understand Lorian better.

Because absent that, not only do we not understand Lorian just generally because we don't spend a lot of time with him or his decisions, we don't experience the foundational moment of his life.

Does the episode confuse what that is?

Is the foundational moment of his life the regret he feels about waiting all that time and then failing in his mission.

I guess that's it.

Like, Lorian's big regret guy instead of I made a bad decision guy.

And that's his deal.

I kept thinking about how

hard it is for people a lot of the time to like empathize with people that they haven't met, you know, like people that they don't know or haven't met.

Like, it's, it's, like, maybe one of the biggest problems in the entire world is like the failures of empathy at large and small scales that just happen when there's like an in-group and an out-group or a like a kind of person that is like unknown to another kind of person who happens to have power.

And it's so interesting to think of this small group of people who are like are on this ship and kind of take it as an article of faith because their parents told them so that what they have to do with their life is stay on this ship so that they can be in the right place at the right time in 117 years to a single event in history from taking place.

And like, what a fucking trip that is.

And for those kids and grandkids not to feel a little bit

like burdened and like I have no freedom because a guy named Archer made a decision like decades ago.

Like that sucks.

I really like your version of this episode, Ben, because if all of these scenes where Karen Archer and Lorian are interacting with these past people.

If those scenes are injected with that kind of subtext where there's some resentment there,

how much more interesting does this episode become?

I think a lot more interesting.

Yeah.

As it is, you have to like juzh this episode up with a lot of Vory tellings.

You do.

Look, I love Gray Tapal.

I think she's great.

I wish Lorian was more interesting.

I just don't think he was enough to be the tortured central character of this thing, given the decisions that he made didn't make a lot of sense.

You gotta have his motivations

totally set in stone and understandable for this to work, I think.

And they just don't.

Well,

want to see if there's anything that works in the Priority One inbox.

I'm gonna go over there and glimpse them, Ben.

Let's fast walk over there.

I crave it.

Yeah, it's extra.

By the interest alone, could be enough to buy this ship.

And we've got a promotional priority one message here.

Here's how that goes.

Trek fans know the Elon Yulin attack on Twitter

drove war to the Fediverse.

Wow.

that means that my new book move slowly and build bridges is canonical trek wow move slowly is a book about mastodon the federated twitter alternative it's an academic book so it has plenty of footnotes for lawyer picard but it's written for a broad audience so it's perfect for all friends of deSoto everywhere including members of friendsofde.social.

Wow.

So here's the call to action.

Order move slowly and build bridges.

Mastodon, the fediverse, and the struggle for democratic social media wherever you buy books.

And this one is written by Robert W.

Gale.

Wow.

And that's spelled G-E-H-L in case you're looking up this book by its author.

Oh, yeah, that's a good call.

I have to say, I do enjoy reading a non-fiction academic book every so often.

This one sounds right up my alley.

I might order myself a copy of Move Slowly and Build Bridges, which is a great title.

Good stuff.

Good stuff by Robert W.

Gale.

Pick it up.

And thanks for the shout out to our Friends of DeSoto page over there.

Oh yeah.

FriendsofDeSoto.social, a thriving community over there on Mastodon.

And if you're in a trying to get out of the toxic soup of social media, but still wanting to engage with people on the internet headspace, that that might be a great place to look this next p1 is from matt from denver it's to ben adam wendy rob and bill goes like this spotify keeps sending me to other podcasts last time to tgt this time to polyamateur hour which i think is canonical tgg now i just finished season six of tng with you all and it's been great The veto of vetoes has to end though.

Keep up the great work.

Can you play the worst drop you have?

Wow.

Matt from Denver, having just finished season six of TNG, has a lot of episodes to get to to find out what the worst drop we have is.

But,

well, here it is.

Hey, nerds.

I'm Will Wheaton.

Yeah, also, Matt, don't tell me what to do.

Veto whatever I want.

And I'll counter veto it.

God damn it.

You're going to find out.

If you'd like to get a P1 on the show, we surely encourage you to do so.

It is maximumfun.org slash jumbotron.

I'm seeing P1 start to fill up toward the end of the year here.

So if you'd like to get one in before the end of 2025, I would jump on it right away.

And if you'd like to get one for early 2026, you know, no time like the present.

Claim those dates.

Hey, Ben.

What's that, Adam?

Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda?

Incredible.

Drunk Shimoda!

Oh, come on.

It's got to be Reed.

The episode is making fun of Reed.

Reed is almost too sad.

But you're right.

It has to be Reed.

It's got to be Reed.

Reed gets basically one scene, and it is to cut his nuts off.

Yeah, have we ever seen a character get his nuts nullied this badly for

as little screen time as they get?

Here's a follow-up question to that.

Is it made worse that it's Hoshi and Mayweather, like celebrating their sexual victories?

Because

both of these characters, attractive, social, well-liked by other crew people, but not like they're not tript-tuckering around.

Right.

Like they're not.

They're not like captain of the football squad guys.

And I think part of what hurts is that Hoshi and Mayweather are just like normal crew people and they

had kids in a family.

And from the sound of it, like kind of easily.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No big deal for us.

How about you?

Oh,

you don't have one of these, do you?

And just the react to

stepping in that social piece of shit next to their table in the lunchroom.

Ugh, that's rough.

It's rough for everyone involved.

I think the thing that really seals the deal as the Shimoda, though, is the like turning to see a babe and being like, well, perhaps an opportunity has presented itself, in fact.

I wonder if that moment wasn't shot for safety or something that happened many drafts down the line in this script.

Because try to imagine this episode without that moment.

And instead, the scene ends with Reed going, oh my God, like, no one loves me.

No one will ever love me enough to want to have a kid with me.

And then, like, he, like, Bill Murray's a spoon of food up to his mouth and then, like, sets it down because he's so sad he can't even eat.

It's too sad.

You have to give him that hope.

Kind of a lot is done by those couple seconds at the end of that scene, is what I'm saying.

Faith of the fart.

You want to see what's done by the next episode, Adam?

And how we will do the next episode?

I'm dying to find out.

It's season three, episode 22 of Star Trek Enterprise.

It is called

The Council.

Archer and Hoshi stand before the Zindi Council as DePaul and Reed lead a team into the heart of a sphere.

Wow.

I mean,

we've been inside a sphere before, right?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

This is the big climax?

Is it like a sphere of Sphere Builder, or is it a sphere of the the weapon, though?

Maybe it's that sphere.

The confusing thing is that so many things are spherical on this show.

It's hard to keep them straight.

Yeah.

Like to Paul going into a sphere, it's like spheres inside spheres inside spheres.

Really is.

And then when I blow on my forearm, spheres on spheres, next to spheres, going into spheres.

That's a good point.

Never really thought of it that way.

Game of buttholes, Will of the Ragged with Quantum Leap, is where we find out how we will engage with the next episode, Ben.

Gox.biz slash game.

It's where you can find it if you're following along.

Alright.

Currently, our runabout is on square 96, the Bronezone episode that everyone has enjoyed.

Mm-hmm.

Up until now.

If you roll 100, we could just do this again.

We could just keep doing this.

Please, God, don't let that happen.

You're required to learn as you play.

Roll.

Ben, I have rolled a 30.

Hmm.

What does that mean?

It means we have another special episode again.

No way.

You ready?

We have landed on square 26.

The Zindi arc.

Oh, shit.

It's hard to imagine five sentient species evolving on the same planet.

Five?

I suppose there are now.

For the very first time, we will be taking shots of five different alcohols during the episode.

Oh, man.

It's the premiere of a new square.

I'm glad that we got this, like, within the context of the actual Zindi arc.

Yeah, right?

Because it would feel weird to have had this on the board the whole time and never hit it.

Yeah.

But I'm also dreading this.

I hope I'm done with my course of antibiotics by then.

I mean, we have to obey the game.

If you're on the antibiotics, you still need to take your five shots.

I'm sure my doctor will understand that when I have to like go back for like last line antibiotics because.

Looked at your blood work, Benjamin, and it's all gin.

Wow.

What a thing.

Yeah.

Interesting role, Adam.

Also interesting is the fact that thousands of friends of DeSoto choose to support whatever this is on a monthly basis by going to maximumfund.org slash join.

And boy, do we appreciate them for doing so.

Keeps the lights on around here, keeps this thing going, keeps us in amazing teammates like, for example, Wendy Pretty, our producer and editor who edited this into something coherent.

Also got to thank Rob Adler, our social media guy.

and as of this recording, newly a dad.

Congratulations to Rob.

Rob did what Reed could never do

with all the time in his life.

Indeed.

We got to thank our Zindy Wartime consigliary, Bill Tilley, helping out on the social medias and screening our inbox.

If you'd like to send something in for a future Code 47, slide into the DMs on the at Grace Trek social media accounts.

Talk to Bill.

Just remember, if you send something gross, we're going to make Bill eat it.

He loves it too.

Bill, you sick fuck.

So don't do it.

Got to thank Adam Ragusia, our buddy with whom we make Wholesome,

a show that I'm very proud of.

It's over there on patreon.com/slash wholesome underscore pod.

It is a weekly patrons-only show about things we really like.

It's a good way to get to know me and Adam and Adam a little bit better.

And we work really hard on it.

I hope we'll give it a try.

He also does, of course, the music for this show.

We should also mention Dark Materia, who made the original card song that you're hearing Under Our Voices Now.

So, with that, we will be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Enterprise, an episode of the Greatest Generation Enterprise, where Adam and I really do our darndest to think of what aquatic Zindy booze would be.

Salty.

Brainy.

Yeah, maybe so.

Dirty martini.

You know, what Reed shoots may be ineffective, but it is delicious.

Cannons are ready.

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