Kelsey Grammer Reveals All: Lessons on Love, Loss, Healing & Remembering (Pt 1)

I think the message that came through was Karen saying, it's time.

You need to

remember

and live your life.

Yeah, I was a really,

it was a great moment.

She said, I've missed you.

So I do this all the time.

I do this with my kids.

They all go like, oh, here he goes again.

Grief is a heavy weight to continue to carry.

It's very hard.

And you suffer with this idea that, oh, by letting go of the grief, you're somehow letting go of them.

But I learned through this book that that isn't the case.

By hanging on to the things that are good, actually,

I'm closer to her

as I was when I was with her, when she was with us.

And so she is with us again.

That's the key.

How do you remember the people in your life who you loved and have lost?

And have you considered how that impacts your life, your healing, your spirit, and your joy today?

Well, today we're talking about love, loss, healing, remembering, and celebrating a joy-filled life with my guest today, Kelsey Grammer.

You're opening the cocktail.

Cocktail onions.

Cocktail onions.

I did my homework.

I read that you love cocktail onions.

I'm like, okay, we've got to have them on the set.

Thank you.

I was a Denny's waitress, which I just learned you're you're a Denny's

dishwasher.

I actually go and celebrate at Denny's to this day.

Yeah, when I see you're getting emotional.

Kelsey is a Golden Globe award-winning Emmy award-winning Tony award-winning Screen Actors Guild award-winning People's Choice Award-winning actor, comedian, and producer.

He first gained fame for his role as Dr.

Frazier Crane on the hit TV show Cheers, and later its spin-off Frazier, making prime time television history, playing one of the longest-running roles for for more than 20 years by a single actor.

He is the founder of Faith American Brewing Company, a husband to his wife Kate, and the father of seven children.

It was recently announced he'll be playing Beast in the much anticipated Avengers Doomsday.

And today we're actually seeing a deeply personal and intimate part of Kelsey and perhaps one of the most important and meaningful works of his life, Kelsey's brand new book, where he explores love, loss, healing, and celebrating the memory of a life filled with joy.

Remember is my favorite word.

That is the most powerful word in the English language.

The idea that you were once a member of something, you were once close to another person in their membership.

And when you remember them,

they're no longer gone.

What you just said about remember, like just sent chills through my whole body.

To break down the word, for so many people listening right now, they have loved ones they've lost.

And for you to say, remember you were a member with them you were in membership with them

and by remembering it's almost like you reignite that connection that aliveness that in membership with them yeah

i said we got to put a bullet in this thing i mean i we have to kill this show he said i can't i can't kill it and i knew my life I knew my life was changing.

I thought, it's changing.

And then I met Kate.

And he said, I was on that flight when you and Kate met.

He told me that I said to him, I think I'm going to marry that girl.

Wow.

You have a relationship with God.

If you have one and you're listening, you know, you don't need to doubt it.

It's really there.

I was in a conversation with Jesus.

And I thought, boy, this is really, really interesting.

But it's as clear and vivid as anything I've ever done.

I was like, hey.

You don't need to keep carrying this.

I've got it.

That was the big thing.

He said, I got it.

I said, well,

what do you mean?

I got it.

I mean, I'm fine.

I can handle it.

It's all right.

He said, no, no, this is not for you.

That's why I came.

You don't need to carry this.

So I can give it up.

It's a good thing.

In Karen, Kelsey shares the tragic story of the death of his sister Karen, who was brutally murdered at the age of 18, and the journey of his own path to healing in his life.

In Karen, Kelsey aims to help others who have experienced similar loss, offering solace and encouragement to cherish the love they knew, however brief, on their own path toward healing.

And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family.

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If you like the show and the guests that I bring you, if you could please hit the subscribe or follow button on the app that you're listening or watching on.

It truly means the world to me.

Thank you so much.

And I want to remind you that this episode, it's not just for you and me.

Please share this with every single person you know because what you're about to hear could change your life and theirs too.

Also, every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show features a wide range of guests.

I believe that you can't help heal humanity through love unless you understand the humans that make it up.

I have friends who vote differently, love differently, and believe completely differently than me.

I've gotten hate for giving them love, but I'll never stop doing that because I know why I'm here.

And it's to be a force for love.

This world now, more than ever, desperately needs the force for love inside each of us.

You can't help heal humanity through love if you only love the people who are just like you and aren't truly open and curious about the humans who make up the collective humanity that I believe is possible for all of us to heal together.

And with that, let's get this episode started.

Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

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Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

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Kelsey Grammar, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Thank you.

Thanks, Jamie.

That was lovely.

I see you're getting emotional listening to it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, you got it.

That's why I wrote it.

Just it turned out to be that was the mission.

I didn't know it at first because I got a very strange

imperative saying, you know,

write this.

Well, it didn't say write, actually, but it just said tell,

tell my story

through my sister, from my sister through Esther, somebody we were working with at the time.

And so

it's just turned into the book.

Yeah.

It was a wonderful, it was a wonderful exploration and discovery all at the same time because I rediscovered my life with Karen.

I discovered a purpose for writing the book while writing it and

really just wanted to help people

find some peace of

the word solace,

some understand that we are not alone, we're

with God and one another, and

that that person, when remembered, is no longer distant or lost in the moment of memory.

They're reinvigorated, they're revivified, and are brought back to life.

in our minds, in our memories, in our extension of thought to them.

They live live again.

So that's kind of what I wanted to say to people.

Which is so beautiful.

I mean, I think, you know, every person who lives long enough and who's blessed enough to love somebody

deals with loss and grief.

And

you talk a lot in the book, Karen, which everyone should go pick up their copy.

Yes, I should,

immediately.

But you talk a lot about the power of remembering.

And can you share just a little bit more about that?

Yeah,

my first understanding of the when remember is my favorite word and

my first

comprehension of that was when I was 18 I was asked by one of the one of the girls at the dance

school that was on the same floor Juilliard as I was the drama department and the dance school was on the same floor.

So we would all sort of commingle and one of the girls said I want to set a new piece I'm working on she was choreographing choreographing,

to music, but I want the music to be the spoken word.

And I have this poem that I'd like you to read for me while I do these dancing moves.

And I said, sure.

And the poem had the word remember in it, at which point I thought, boy, that is the most powerful word in the English language.

It has remained that way for me.

I mean, I like a lot of other words as well, but remember is the one that gives me the most pleasure because of the idea that you were once a member of something.

You are once close to another person in their membership.

And when you remember them,

they're no longer gone.

They're there.

They're there with you.

And so that's when I first sort of really fell in love with the word itself.

And then

when

we were discussing the title for the book, you know, it was like, you've got to remember, that's got to be in there somewhere.

And it's about Karen.

So, you know, it became, you know, my brother remembers.

But it's,

you know, in reading it, you learn the value of the word to me.

And hopefully to another group of people who will read it and say, yeah, I feel that.

Because once that starts, it's like channeling almost.

You take one step into it, the first sentence, the first word, and you're suddenly, you've broken through every time barrier in the world.

You've pulled people out of the grave.

You've re-embraced them again, and it's a wonderful thing.

What you just said about remember, like just sent chills through my whole body.

Because to break down the word and I think for so many people listening right now, they're going to have a big aha moment over this, right?

Because they have loved ones they've lost and

still love.

And for you to say remember, you were a member with them.

You were in membership with them.

And by remembering, it's almost like you reignite that what's already there, but that

connection, that aliveness, that in membership with them yeah when did that happen for you like in in a in a way you were able to to feel with your sister

um and can you tell me about karen sure um for a long time it was very hard for me to think about karen and uh

but i was excavating

um

the tragedy You know, I was unearthing that a lot of the time.

When I would reflect on her, I would reflect on what she suffered and what took place in her life and the people who were responsible and there were so many other things that sort of echoed through my mind that

were not honorific,

that didn't

celebrate her, that just sort of mourned her.

And I was sort of lost in a kind of a loop of mourning that

it wasn't healthy,

it was,

but it was what I had to do.

I mean,

it's not that it was unhealthy, it was just, what I was given at the time.

And, you know,

I always love the book of Matthew.

Do it as given unto you.

I was stuck in that.

And it took me this book to actually find my way out into saying,

oh, God, I'm so happy I knew you.

Yeah, I was really...

It was a great moment to understand

in the writing of it that I was going to have this chance to be with my sister again and to hold her and to love her and to hold her hand and laugh at things together again.

And it was a really extraordinary thing.

It was a great, great

life we had together, which is why it was so tragic to me.

Why it's so hard for me for a long time to kind of wrestle out of that.

And I really didn't do it for a long time.

And I think the message that came through was, Karen saying, it's time.

You need to

remember and

and live your life.

Hmm.

Will you tell me more about that?

Like about its impact on you when you chose to write it.

Sure.

Well, I feel a lot lighter.

I did actually get to drop a lot of grief.

Grief is a heavy weight to continue to carry.

It's very hard.

And you suffer with this idea that, oh, by letting go of the grief, you're somehow letting go of them.

But I learned through this book that that isn't the case.

By hanging on to the things that are good, actually,

I'm closer to her

as I was when I was with her, when she was with us.

And so she is with us again.

That's the key.

So it's been great.

And she's with my family now.

I'm with Kate.

And Kate dealt with me writing this for two and a half years.

And

when I finally turned to Kate, and this always choked me up a little bit, but I'm getting more used to saying it.

But

she's such an extraordinary woman.

When I said,

I finished it, I turned and said, it's done.

And she said, I've missed you.

Thanks, babe.

I do this all the time.

I do this with my kids.

They all go like, oh, here he goes again.

But

it's a very rewarding life to care this much about things.

So it's okay.

Tell me about

your wife.

Well, Kate and I met in what is one of the great fantasy meetings of all time.

I mean, almost every guy I meet says, wow, you lived the dream.

So

we met on a flight to London.

She was working for Virgin Atlantic, and she was part of the cabin crew.

She looked good and red.

We struck up a nice conversation and I was at a very, I was at a very big crossroads in my life.

I knew my life was changing.

I'd gotten this,

I'd just finished doing this show called Hank, which was, and we always say this now, this is for the next book.

This is this story, stuff like this for the next book.

But so I'd finished filming this show called Hank.

Which was a terrible show.

It wasn't funny.

It was supposed to be funny.

It was just ghastly.

And I had actually called Peter over to

Warner Brothers and I said, Peter, we got to put a bullet in this thing.

I mean, we have to kill this show.

He said, I can't.

I can't kill it.

We've got obligations to foreign sales and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I thought, please, please.

And sure enough, the next day, Steve from ABC called and said,

I'm putting a bullet in this show.

It's got to go.

I was like, thank God.

And 35 minutes later, I got a call from Barry Weisler in New York City saying, I got this show.

We're going to bring it over to Broadway.

I want you to be in it.

Fly to London.

Can you get on a plane in a couple of days and go see it?

And we'll talk about you doing it there.

And that was it.

And

I knew my life was changing.

I thought, it's changing.

And then I met Kate.

And recently we went to

what was it?

It was one of the, there was just an invited screening of a couple of the

chosen series.

And

we saw our friends there.

And

a guy walks up to me and says, hey, you remember me?

And I was loath to say no because I don't like to hurt anybody's feelings.

But I did not really remember him.

But then he said, I was on that flight when you and Kate met.

I started thinking, I remember sort of chatting a bit with some guys by the bar.

Kate was in and out a bit.

She was doing her job.

But

he told me that I said to him, I think I'm going to marry that girl.

Wow.

I didn't really remember saying that to him, but it did make sense to me.

I remember thinking it at one point.

Yeah.

So maybe

that's what happened.

So I got to London and

we

these are all off-glides, but they're fun.

I was staying at the Mandarin Oriental.

And it used to be the Hyde Park Hotel, I think.

Maybe I shouldn't mention anything else, except there was, I walked in, I stopped at the concierge, the concierge said hello, oh, hello, Mr.

Grema.

And there was a girl who looked, she was like 10 feet tall and with a Russian accent.

I thought, whoa,

and he looked at me as she walked away and he said, anything at all you need, Mr.

Grema?

Anything.

Oh.

Oh, he's there.

That's what he's saying.

Oh, okay.

Well, thank you.

Thank you nonetheless.

And then Kate and I connected by phone and decided we would meet for a drink.

And

I said, well, let's have a drink in the bar at

the hotel.

And as I walked downstairs

at the appointed hour, I looked in and I saw a bunch of the same kind of people.

And I thought, that is not the place to take a girl on a first date.

So I walked out on the street and I stood in the little meridian right opposite Harvey Nichols.

And she came up out of the tube stop.

And I saw her reapply her lipstick.

And I sort of smiled.

And then she looked up and saw me looking at her.

And we took a walk.

I said, let's go take a walk.

We're not going to go in there for a drink.

And so we went toward Hyde Park.

It was close to Christmas, so Winter Wonderland was up and running.

And so I saw all the lights.

It was a little cool.

And then snowflakes started to fall.

And I thought,

pretty perfect.

And we shared a kiss 20 minutes later.

Like a fairy tale.

It was.

When you said a few minutes ago that you told her the book is finished,

and she said, I missed you,

what did that mean to you?

We need to pause for a super brief break.

And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire.

Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going, to remember that they matter, and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy.

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And now, more of this incredible conversation together.

When you said a few minutes ago that you told her the book is finished,

and she said, I missed you.

What did that mean to you?

Well, what it meant was that she was along for the ride, that she'd been there all that time, that she was.

Now, I'm not going to say she's perfect on this, because this is, you know, there were moments when she'd say, you know what, I could use a little tension over here, please.

Thank you.

But she was willing to let me take the ride.

She was willing to let me fall into the grief, as I did a few times,

and re-experience the loss and go so deep into a sort of a,

because the grief was revivified too you know I mean yes you went back I went back in time back in moments back in time moments of my childhood that I hadn't remembered for a long time and they were I was fully in them so she was missing me during that time but willing to accept that and allow me to take the journey and that's what that's what was remarkable

Kate's over here

checking to see here now

with when I was I was sharing this with you when when we were walking here to the set, but as a reader,

I felt like I was right there with you through the book.

And this is so different than how most books are written.

And for the person who's listening right now, watching us right now, who maybe has

dealt with the loss of someone they love, or they're maybe just, you know,

having a new focus on, wow, I want to remember people that maybe I've loved and have lost or that are still in my life.

And you take us through this journey, and

it's so

intimate, and it's so powerful, and it's so purposeful.

But then also, you're telling us how you're feeling in the moment as you're writing it.

Like you're almost like we're going through this journey of remembering with you.

And so we're part of the remembering and we're seeing how we can remember.

And you're giving us an example of how we can remember in our own lives but then we're also feeling what we're experiencing what you're feeling as you write it and can you share a little bit of insight because there's gonna be a lot of people watching listening that go oh my gosh I want to

I want to remember I want to remember I want to I want to remember with that person I want to do that like Kelsey how like how do I do that what did that look like for you as you went through this how did you know it was time to do that and how did you know or did you it would be worth it or that you needed to and and how did you figure out how to

yeah the

I didn't know how I was gonna do it when I started but I did have this sense that as it became a book, as it became in the first couple of days of doing writing, I wrote like the first day I wrote, I wrote about just a page and a half, and I realized then, I thought, oh,

I think this is a book.

This is a real book.

And then I thought that

I had to take people with me, that they had to be invited along for the ride, and that

my obligation to them was to point the way back to things that I had known and learned and that would hopefully agitate their imagination enough to say, oh, yeah, I've lived that way.

I've had that moment.

So that we were on the trip together.

So we were, instead of holding just Karen's hand, I was holding the reader's hand.

I mean, at one point in the book, I even write a letter to the reader

with the sort of

the understanding that they might actually not want to finish the journey.

I thought, but

so far, this is where we've gone.

I hope you're with me still.

If you want to put the book down now, that's okay.

But I said, we have some things to do still.

I have some places I have to go.

and I have you now.

I have you with me.

And so it was a very direct address kind of thing.

And I did, there's a conceit about Henry Fielding, who wrote Tom Jones.

When I read Tom Jones, I was 18 years old.

I was riding the subway all the time, and I was laughing out loud at it.

And I thought, my, what a wonderful gift from 200 years previous from this guy who had the arrogance or just the confidence to say, this is probably the best book you'll ever read in your life.

He says it right there,

right out.

And I thought, that's what I want to have.

I want to establish that kind of

a relationship with whoever might be reading the book at the time and say, it's us together.

I know you're there, and I'm with you, you're with me, let's go do this.

And

that arrived, I don't know, 60, 70 pages into the book when I suddenly thought, okay, I got to explain this about Henry Fielding.

So he's in there.

And I said, you can blame him if you want to.

It was a nice device, but it also, it sort of got rid of the idea that there was any distance between us, between my telling of the story and the reader.

And it will always be in an immediate sense.

The time, time collapses into the book, and there is no time in it.

There is no chronology, but there is the sort of, but whatever, you bounce from one place to the next like

life is just a bauble.

You can just say, I'm going from here to there.

I'm going from here.

I'm going to South America right now.

I'm going to go back to Southern California.

And you just take them with you.

And And that's how remembering is.

Yeah, I think it is.

So

it's a reflected

sort of word puzzle, I guess, that sort of indicates where my brain's been.

Can you share with everyone Esther and how Karen came through?

I get so many messages and DMs from people saying, you know,

what about a plant medicine droning?

What about this?

What about, like just all these, and I think what I've learned, I knew this already, but I know this even more powerfully through doing this show, is that I feel like when each of us share our stories,

that it helps everyone feel less alone and more enough.

And they just kind of, I think, revel in that.

I think we need that now more than ever, that connection.

But for you, can you talk about through the story of Esther, how Karen, how Karen spoke, how this all started?

Because there are going to be people at home going, wait, can I get Esther's number?

Like, where do I have to go?

Esther's pretty gifted.

I've known a few gifted people.

This was, I mean, I produced a show called Medium, and I guess

that was part of it.

I was always kind of in that community a little bit.

And I found out, of course, everybody who's a medium actually wants a television show.

So it was like a lot of people contacted me for a while.

And you do find out that some are really gifted.

Some are, you know, okay, yeah, maybe they're getting hits.

Maybe they are accurate some of the time.

But if you've got somebody who's

who doesn't know you, who's accurate about your life 70% of the time, pulls names out of the air,

you may as well pay attention.

Whatever your point is or whatever jaundice view you may have of the whole mediumship issue, because Greg Laurie's a pal of mine, and he's not particularly happy about being a

not a necessary, being sort of on the evangelical scale.

He's sort of more toward conservative, and they're not so crazy about this idea of channeling.

However, I always think to myself, well, isn't Ecclesiastes, not Ecclesiastes, but Revelation, isn't that a channeled book?

I mean, didn't John sit there and didn't Jesus come and visit him and talk to him?

So

there are examples in the Bible, but I suppose they just want you to deal with the fact that they're in the Bible, not necessarily in your life.

And I think that may distance a lot of people from

the revelation that takes place every day

in our lives on this planet today.

I think that revelation is unfolding, and it comes to all of us,

you know, if we have the good fortune to be open at the moment.

Will you explain what you mean by that?

Well, the unfolding,

you have a relationship with God.

If you have one and you're listening, you know, you don't need to doubt it.

It's really there.

You know,

we will, you know, we'll mess with ourselves a lot because we've been told we should.

We've been told we shouldn't have faith in faith.

But nonetheless, it still keeps coming up.

There's a great story about Barabbas, one of the guys

when the people of

Jerusalem said,

give us Barabbas instead of Jesus,

Pilate said, you can have this guy or

you can let Jesus go, you can take this guy, he'll die instead.

And they said, give us Barabbas instead, and basically sort of sealing Jesus' death.

And there was a great movie,

Anthony Quinn did it.

And somewhere in the middle of it, I saw it, God, when I was 10, something like that.

He's having a terrible life, but all he can think about is Jesus.

And then somebody says to him,

Well,

if all you're doing is thinking about him,

isn't that some indication that it might be real?

And so he became one of his ardent followers, his first devoted followers, Barabbas.

Anyway, I've gone off path a little bit.

Aster

journeys, plant medicine.

I think my plant medicine is actually writing.

I didn't realize it at the time, but it just takes me in deep rate.

It's sort of like I'm in some sort of

an altered state.

And

it's been extraordinary.

And in those moments,

that's when the book was the most alive, you know, and it would come to me.

There are scenes I've I mentioned in the book where I was just sort of contemplating and sitting in a dark room and I felt surrounded by hundreds of voices, people who were gone and still present in my life, some of them,

but they were as clear as a bell, you know, saying,

You don't need to suffer so much.

You've done enough.

You've done enough of that.

And those were wonderful moments.

So Esther came into my life through a friend who knew that I was,

you know, a person on the path, sort of trying to figure out what we all mean why we're here and all that stuff and yeah

he said

and he's not he's not really an active friend of mine it was just a guy that I'd met a couple of times who said you need to talk to this gal Esther she's amazing and and if you do a if you do

If you do like a Zoom meeting with her, she can sort of read what's going on with your body health-wise and stuff.

She'll say, you know, oh, you need to have a look at that part of your stomach or something or whatever.

But that wasn't our relationship.

That wasn't the way I encountered her.

We had a phone conversation, and

I described it in a book a little bit, but it was very funny for me because I'm a little bit, I look on this with a slightly

skeptical

energy.

So she's from South America.

She's got a bit of an accent.

And Esther said,

I'd like to give me a minute.

Okay.

Are you relaxed?

Yeah, yeah.

I was sort of lying on the floor in one of our bedrooms in Palm Springs.

And

she said,

Okay.

Then I hear a little rattle, some shaking of sticks.

I thought, oh boy, here we go.

And

then it was just a couple minutes later she said,

oh,

your sister wants you to tell her story.

Okay.

Yes, Karen.

Karen wants you to tell her story.

So that was kind of it, really.

And I have a picture of it in the book.

The notepad I was writing.

It's just an envelope turned sideways at the back of the envelope where I just was jotting down what she was saying.

And I feel tell her story.

Tell Karen's story on it.

So there's a picture of that in the book.

What did that feel like when she said that?

And did you believe her?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, I've had several meetings, of course, as I said, I produced this show who said there was, you know, that Karen came through, and yeah, I believed it

at least half the time I believed that they were having some sort of connection, because I know she's with me, so if they have a gift, then they're seeing her, hearing her, you know.

I'm not so good at doing that, but through the writing, I sort of felt like I was closer to her that way and understood that she's been there, right there.

Right there.

When you talk about, you know, all of these people that have passed or that are living, that are in your life, and you're in like a dark room and you're hearing all the voices

is that when you write only

no no that was just that was a meditative moment that was just I wrote about it a couple days later Wow yeah it just it was just logged yeah filed away and was it just like you were in meditation or prayer or and it just came it's sort of like prayer well the same kind of thing happened a few weeks before

I'm trying to put if I've got it right timing wise but I think I do.

A few weeks before, I just had one of those moments when I thought, I want to do something worthwhile, something important.

And I just sort of gave up and said, you know, help me out here.

And the very next day, the script came to the door for Jesus Revolution,

which I

was one of the great successes of my life.

I loved playing that role.

I called my agent an hour and a half later after reading the script and I said, I'm doing this.

So,

you know, these things happen.

Yeah.

Like you said earlier, if you're open, like when you open yourself to them.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

It's so interesting, Kelsey.

I, um,

I,

in my life,

I believe our life is divinely orchestrated.

I think we have choice.

I think all of that.

I find that when I talk about my faith or talk openly on the show, for example, about my faith, what's so tricky is that

everyone's at different places of faith in their life.

So some people write in and say, they're mad I'm talking about God.

Someone else will write in and say, you didn't talk about God correctly.

And I'm like,

right?

All these things.

That's been going on for a long time.

That's why we have all these different religions.

Yes.

And even inside the same one.

And it's interesting

because of what you shared earlier, you know, sometimes people are in different ranges of their belief and faith or they don't want to hear about a medium or this this or that.

And I always, I just feel like it will not be until we are, you know,

in part of our eternal life that we even understand all the things.

I feel like humans can try to judge.

I have one of my best friends that doesn't like crystals.

I love crystals.

I'm like, first of all, God created them.

That's the first thing.

And I'm so open to all of that.

I felt like when I wrote, I've written two books and I felt, I just felt like I didn't write them.

I felt like they came through me.

And it's like a hard thing to explain, but I love that you share

the process of writing this book.

Not only because so many people that are going to read it, they're going to pick up Karen, the book Karen,

may want to write their own book, or they may want to actually just start writing their own story or a loved one's story, or they may want to remember through writing.

And maybe they never share it with anyone else, but it's their own kind of private process of doing that.

How do you know,

how do you know for sure that Karen is with you and has been with you through this process of the book?

Yeah.

I guess I just know, but

years ago, people would say to me things like, you know, well, she's here, you know.

She's here.

And I'd sort of, you know, get skeptical or whatever.

But then it became overwhelmingly clear that

Karen and I hadn't, like, left each other.

We stayed together.

And I almost, almost

from the moment she was gone,

or the moment she was killed,

I sensed that I was living with her.

Like she was along for the ride, always there.

I know she was with my mom sometimes.

One guy I was meeting a while back said something to me, he said,

oh,

you know, and did one of those things, and then he said, yeah,

she said, she's sorry, she didn't realize that the grief would be so, so hard.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

So I've had reminders from a lot of people, but

you get your own taste for this stuff.

Yeah, Karen's real.

She's there.

It happens.

She has come, she's spoken to Kate, I think, a few times.

I'm not going to pull her in too much on that.

She's been available because I think she's always had she's been really attracted to life, you know, really like a flame.

You know, it's like...

You want to be in your life.

You want to be in your love.

It's like my version of heaven is I can't imagine God would take us to a place where we would not remember our love or where suddenly we don't get to be aware of our loved ones, or oh, you guys are done.

You'll never see each other again.

That's nonsense.

You know,

one of my friends, Erwin McManus, who's a pastor, he was giving this keynote speech right before me at an event, and his whole keynote was on quantum entanglement.

And I'm thinking, what is quantum entanglement?

But I'm listening to the whole thing.

And he said something so powerful.

He said

that he believes that

because we grieve and because we feel so deeply for people we've loved and lost, that once they're gone, you know, they're gone in physical form, that he believes it's proof of eternal life, the fact that we still feel so deeply.

And he talks about like resonance between souls and how it's proof that they're soul

and that there's eternal life based on how strong we feel for somebody.

And if that person just disappeared, that we wouldn't feel that connection or that sense of they're here or they're with me or they're,

you know, showing me a sign or giving me a nudge or speaking to me or speaking to my wife or any of those things.

And it was so profound the way he explained it.

He explained it far more eloquently than I just did, but he explained it and I had never thought of it that way.

Pretty good idea.

Right?

That we're so deeply connected emotionally and in other ways that the essence of their essence and our essence, he explained, have like united, as you would say, we're in membership with.

And how it's proof that even if they are not here in physical form,

that their soul is still there and that there's

eternal life.

We had a great moment when Kate and I were having a fight when we were in our early, our first year together, basically.

living at my mom's old house.

We'd had a bit of a tussle and climbed into bed, kind of mad with each other, and thought, you know, and I heard this huge bang in the living room.

And I thought, what the heck?

So I reached out of the bed and I grabbed a golf club.

So I kept there for that reason.

And Kate said she was going to go.

She'll go check it out.

You know, I got this.

I said, you know, don't get a hold of yourself.

Don't get carried away.

I said, I'll take this one.

So I opened the door and I went out of the living room.

Kate went back to bed.

I walked in.

The TV was on.

And I thought, well, I know I turned that off, so it's weird.

Looked around a little bit.

Turned it off.

I thought,

thanks, mom.

You know, don't go to bed angry with each other.

Okay.

So I went into the room and then

Kate said, what did your mom smell like?

She smelled flowers.

It was really something, really something.

And I thought, well, this is real.

This is not

some heretical thing going on.

It's like, and you mentioned that people

object to discussing faith or not discussing it enough.

I'm not a proselytizer.

I don't try to convince people they should think the way I think or see God the way I see God or

experience this universe the way I experience it.

But I will not deny my faith.

I will not say,

you know, to make someone else comfortable, to say, oh no, I don't believe any of that.

I'm not going to try to force you to think the way I think or feel what I feel, but I'm not going to deny it.

So I have this relationship with Jesus, with God.

It's an open conduit.

It just exists.

And I did question it for a long time.

So believe me, I fought my way to get here and realized after all this time,

oh, you were always there?

Oh,

what was wrong with me?

Well, it was nothing wrong with me.

Just I wasn't ready to listen.

It's okay.

With,

I think, so many people are in this point in their own faith journey.

I have so many friends this way.

I dealt with, I mean, I was raised going to church, and then I spent probably, I don't know, a couple decades just sort of like inside myself doubting God exists.

And I remember I was in graduate school in New York City and around so many people that don't have faith at all

or think that if you do believe in God, you're just not that smart.

And I was around that all the time.

And also around a lot of different faiths.

And I started to sort of question,

hmm, like, you know, and I remember going through God doubt and

I went to, this is years later, I went to my first ever therapist about something completely different and was telling her, I doubt God exists.

And I'm doubting God exists.

And she said to me,

well, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt?

And I'm like, what do you mean?

And she's like, well, if he, and I don't even know if she believes at all, by the way, she said, if he created the entire universe, like what makes you think he can't handle your doubt?

She goes, why don't you try praying and telling him you doubt he exists and to prove you wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does?

And I'm like, okay.

And so and so this went on for a couple years, but like I would, I would, if I was like praying for a friend's health or something like that, I would end the prayer and I'd be like, and by the way, God, I'm doubting you exist.

So if you could please show up in my life, right?

Prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful.

In Jesus' name, amen.

And I did that prayer.

Kelsey, like there, like there is zero question in my mind, like the way God started showing up where it was literally screaming in my face.

Like there's so many examples of this that have happened.

And I'm just like, whoa.

Like the person that finally gave us a shot on QVC after years of my business struggling and us getting no's.

Later, I thanked her.

I was like, you loved our product.

Thank you.

And this was years later.

This was after we had become their biggest brand.

And she says, she was a show host there for 17 years.

And she says, no, no, no, I gave you a shot because God told me, go up and help that girl.

Like, it was just like one thing after another.

And it's just like, whoa.

So that, so for anyone listening right now, no matter where you are in your journey, like that for me was something

that was really powerful to do is just to like call it like you see it.

Like, God, I am doubting you exist.

So can you please show up?

Like, prove me wrong but beyond a shadow of a doubt because i don't want like a hint like just like beyond a shadow of doubt so for you when you just shared that i just know that so many people listening are gonna relate to that and you know you share openly in your book karen that everyone needs to go grab their copy of right now um you share about a lot of different hardships you've gone through and a lot of different struggles and a lot of different times you veered off course and a lot of different just

you know

journeys in your life and i love so much that you share that because there's also so many people just as it pertains to faith there's so many people that think like oh

you know i'm imperfect therefore i'm disqualified from from from praying or i'm disqualified from asking for anything or i'm disqualified from a relationship with god or um or they've met people that are so judgmental um that they feel like it's not for them and so i love that you share so candidly about your life's journey your whole life's journey i mean back to growing up i mean back to all of back to thoughts you had as a little kid back to you know uh all the things and so

for you

when

when and you say that you

you weren't you didn't always have strong faith what was it for you that was like oh god is real and i know that for sure

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when and you say that you

You weren't you didn't always have strong faith.

What was it for you that was like, oh, God is real and I know that for sure

Well, there were a few things along the way that came by.

I had a reading with one of these people that does this sort of thing.

And I was doubting, you know, how did I get to this place?

And it just came out.

I said,

do you think you could have done this without if God didn't love you?

I was like, oh, well, maybe,

maybe not.

So that was a great sort of just frank reminder that, you know,

this has been along for the ride the whole time.

Some other medium years ago,

clairvoyant, whatever you want to call them, when I was a very young man, said, oh, you're a sun worshiper.

Well, I was, actually.

I mean, I believed that

when I went to New York City, for the first time knowing that I was going to never leave there again, I mean, that I was in for the long haul,

having come from Florida and surfing.

I was going to go try to be an actor.

I was 18, and

I just got this message: just

swallow the sun, swallow the sun, have it shine within you for your whole life.

Oh, that'll help.

Yeah, okay, that's a good idea.

So, wherever that came from,

so that was, and that reminded me, oh, yeah, I am sort of a sun worshiper.

That light, that golden light that exists in us and outside of us at all times is is one of those gifts you know that just says

I'm right over here

do you believe

I struggle with this idea I'm about to ask you about because you know when I look at for example you know I was a Denny's waitress, which I just learned, you're a Denny's

dishwasher.

Okay, if you're listening to the show right now, you've got a Denny's waitress, a Denny's dishwasher.

We're making massive pictures.

God bless the folks at Denny's, the good people of Denny's.

Love Denny's.

So they, so I love them so much.

I just was on Shark Tank as a guest shark this season, and they've been their profile piece they showed me as a waitress at Denny's.

Denny's reached out and they're sending me merch, which I'm so excited about.

I have to tell you, it's like one of the most exciting things for me.

But I actually go and celebrate at Denny's to this day.

Yeah, when I did Oprah Show for the first time, I went to Denny's to celebrate, brought my daughter-to-meal.

Oh, I like their pancakes, like whatever time of day.

I always love the patty melt.

Yeah, that was your patty melt.

And hot fudge Sundays.

And hot fudge Sundays.

Their menu, although it's pretty expansive now, when I was working there, it wasn't quite this large.

They have a lot of

fun stuff.

My daughter was excited about Moons Over by Hammy.

She's like, she thought that was funny.

So

anyhow, I mean, you know, when I launched this business in my living room, I mean, we worked 100-hour weeks for a decade.

And then I look at the outcome of what happened, and I'm just like, whoa.

And, you know, I come, you know, I was adopted.

My family that raised me is amazing, multiple families, but my parents worked so hard.

They worked just as hard as me and did not have the outcome, not even close.

And I wonder with you,

when you look at your career so far, so far, still going, still going strong, excited to watch you play Beast

coming up in the

Avengers Doomsday.

But when you look at your career and there's probably moments where you think about like, huh, okay, everyone's freaking out that I'm the highest paid actor in all of Hollywood.

Or, huh.

That was a brief freak out.

So in my sixth M year, I mean, on and on and on and on.

Do you,

do you ever go how, I mean, of course.

you work so hard.

Of course, you have talent.

Of course, all the things.

And also, there's a lot of people that work really, really hard.

And there's people with talent.

So do you think that's God?

What do you think it is that

you have

experienced so much success in so many different areas in your life?

My wife has a saying, she says, Always declare God your partner.

And I like that idea a lot.

Whether I consciously did that in my previous lifetimes, I don't know, but

I think there is an alignment that occurs.

If you're

having luck luck is considered,

by W.H.

Auden, having luck is considered alignment with Providence, meaning God.

And I like that idea.

But

if you have

the wherewithal, the time, the good fortune to hear

what your calling is, what your mission is, because it comes up a lot.

All of a sudden, somebody's saying, you know, I want you to do a play for me.

That's That's what happened to me.

They said, I think you'd be good in this role.

And suddenly I'm standing there thinking,

oh, I'm going to go be an actor.

So

these things that sort of bookmark our lives or landmark our lives are

indications of where we can go.

And I liked somebody said recently, I heard somebody saying, you know, I guess it's from Robert Frost.

If you see a fork in the road, take it.

Oh, no, I think it was Yogi Bear.

Yogi Bear.

I think he said it.

But if you see a fork in the road, take it.

You have these things that come and hit you on the head.

And if you don't hear them, you know, it's

there was a moment in my life when I was walking up the street to go move in with a girlfriend who was, it was a bad decision.

It was a temporary stopover, let's say.

But

it turned out poorly.

But as I walked toward this moment when I would be moving in,

I heard more fire engines and more sirens than I'd ever heard in my life.

To the point where my dog, who was my greatest friend at the time, was howling uncontrollably.

And I kept thinking,

oh, wait a minute.

I thought of Carlos Custaneda and you know how the universe attempts to inform your choices.

Am I making a mistake?

And I shook it up and said, no, that's crazy to think that.

But at least it crossed my mind.

And I've never forgotten it as a result.

It just was like everything in the universe was saying, you don't need to do this.

But I did it anyway.

So sometimes we listen, sometimes we don't.

If you have the good fortune to hear it in the nick of time and

take that course,

God is with you.

Jesus is with you, whatever.

It's like.

And the book I turned

after all this time, and I finally just, I just got a, I was in a conversation with Jesus.

And I thought, boy, this is really, really interesting.

But it's as clear and vivid as anything I've ever done.

And

yeah, I was like, hey, you don't need to keep carrying this.

I've got it.

That was the big thing.

You know, he said, I got it.

I said, well,

what do you mean?

I got it.

I mean, I'm fine.

I can handle it.

It's all right.

He said, no, no, this is not for you.

That's why I came.

You don't need to carry this.

I was like, well, so I can give it up.

It's a good thing.

I think we all need to hear that yeah

I struggle with that all the time like I'll pray and ask God to carry something and then I think I still have to carry it yeah well we you know you're a very very successful person you have all those habits of people who are and

you know we do think we're supposed to do it

we forget how often uh

someone else is doing it for us.

Yeah.

And that the burden need not be ours.

I heard this a while ago.

There was one of those radio guys talking a sermon on it.

I dial in once in a while in the car.

I go between news and like, you know, religious channels.

The guy said, take my yoke upon me.

Take my yoke upon thee.

And I thought, I always thought that meant, oh, I'm supposed to carry something for Jesus.

Like, I'm supposed to take that yoke and, you know, be responsible for it.

And the guy said, don't you get it?

He's saying,

we'll do this together.

It's a two-oxen yoke.

It's a double.

You know, you've got it on you, I've got it on me, take mine on you, and I'll do the pulling.

You don't have to.

And

I've never heard it put quite that simply, but

that's exactly what I did here

at that one point, finally.

I feel like

living in alignment or flow, or it's such a beautiful feeling.

And also, like, I feel like our body tells us, or fire engines and dogs tell us when we're out of alignment and do you feel um because I think this is a really new concept for a lot of people and they're actually learning to like huh what do I actually feel about this like what it like do I feel like I'm in alignment in this job or in this relationship or in this you know hobby or in this friendship or friendship circle.

Like, what is that?

Like, how would you describe to someone listening who wants to tune in more to understanding, like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm in alignment.

Like, this is like, you know, or flow or whatever versus,

oh, I'm, you know, I'm just hearing fire engines for no reason.

Like, how do you, how do you, how do you kind of learn to feel that in your body and then to trust it?

I think it's just practice, honestly.

I think you just have to.

acquaint yourself with the possibility that stepping into this universe, which is a causal universe, there is a cause and an effect.

You're on some path.

There is something else with you.

There is an energy that's here.

We came to

bask in it, to be part of it, to feel it sort of around us all the time.

And it is around us all the time.

We can close our ears to it.

We can close our eyes to it.

We can fight it.

And all those things are probably the right choice at the time, which is pretty interesting because you discover yourself and then you realize,

oh, you're still there.

Oh,

still, still there.

Okay.

Well, then

maybe I should relax about it a little bit.

It doesn't mean surrender.

I don't believe in you surrender to certain things.

I think there is that moment in life when you realize, oh, oh, oh, here it comes.

I'm just going to let this happen, you know, and see what comes next.

But mostly we are given authorship.

You know, we are entitled to be the author of what we want to do.

We either buck what we've been told or we buck other people.

A lot of people tell us, oh, you'll never make it.

That's a gauntlet for me.

That's, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, well, just watch this.

But the other still small voice that is always there is if you just take a minute to ask.

You know, just Matthew again, I go back to Matthew.

It's the first book of the Bible I've read that I started to really pay attention to when I was pretty young.

But, you know, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Ask and ye shall receive.

It's pretty powerful.

So all you really have to do is enumerate a question,

a desire, a longing, whatever it might be.

And

the universe, God, will do everything it can to make it happen for you.

I love what you just said, is to ask.

And it's so simple, but that's like the step I think most of us skip.

We're sitting around waiting.

We're waiting for something.

But maybe we just need to ask.

Like, what am I supposed to do in this situation?

Or, you know, just ask the question

and then just try to create space to hear the answer.

And seek and you shall find.

Yeah, yeah.

You say that this, that Karen, but Karen, you say this is not a grief book.

This is a life book.

What is your advice for others

looking to remember their loved ones well and also honor their life with joy?

It's a double-edged sword, though, the grief book comment, because when I first spoke to the people who represent me, I was about 50 pages in.

And

I said, I'm writing this book about my sister.

They made assumptions about it.

I said, well, a grief book's

a couple, maybe 100 pages long.

And

you do sort of little pamphlets, and oh, we do this and that, and maybe we get a publisher.

And I thought, boy, that is just the most sort of dismissive,

unresponsive, irresponsible

relationship I've ever been in with an agent.

Why would I have someone represent me who just assumed whatever I was doing was like,

could be reduced into something that they would just say, well, this is what we do with that kind of thing.

So I was a little pissed off about that, honestly.

So when I wrote, this is not a grief book.

It's a life book.

That was my feeling at the time.

So I thought I better get that down on paper.

That's all.

That's why it's in there.

But

it gathered more steam and more value for me as I finished the process and realized that this really was about a life and the life I'm still living and the life that Karen now lives.

And that,

I mean, it's an extraordinary thing.

I mean, Kate had this vision years,

a year and a half ago, and she said, It's really amazing what you're doing.

It's like you're putting her in a library.

So she's going to be in a library.

Your sister will live forever.

That was really great.

She said, it's a great gift you're giving her.

And I realized that I didn't know that at the time, but she's giving me a gift in this writing.

But also, there is this,

I want people to know my sister.

I want her

to know what a great girl she was.

And I want her to have what I've had.

This amazing gift I've had of approbation and applause and success.

And,

you know, and yeah, and self-torture and all that nonsense but that's that was my you know that's my own sort of my wrestling with um

you know the why me thing the survivor's guilt stuff you go through but I wanted to give her her due she is due this she's

my success

couldn't have been possible if it hadn't been for Karen wouldn't have happened

knowing her loving her and the in the remarks that she said you know you're gonna do it all those were important things And

I did live for her in a lot of ways.

So

I wanted people to know about her, just, you know, to celebrate her.

Karen will be in libraries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like the

first time I saw one of these,

it's in there somewhere that it says it's registered in the Library of Congress.

And it has a number.

And I thought,

yeah, good.

That's pretty great.

That's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I want to call something out just for everyone listening because I always believe that a famous quote, success leaves clues.

And

just

two things I want to share, just for everyone listening right now that pertain to your own life.

I love so much you just shared.

You know, I asked this question about, oh, you say it's not a, you know, grief book, it's a life book.

And, you know, you could have shared, yes, it's a life book.

But you're like, oh, no, here's actually why I wrote that.

You're like, somebody tried to put me into a cookie cutter thing and like, I'm not gonna let that happen because that's, you know, I'm worthy of more than that.

And I want to call this out because every person listening,

all of us have had someone try to, you know, someone who might be some big agent or in our version of life might be an in-law or, or who knows who it is, a boss, whoever.

And they'll quickly just put that limitation on us.

And it's easy to let that happen or to just get pissed and not do anything about it or to kind of like go, huh, maybe they're right or whatever.

I love so much that you shared.

Like,

no, that's not, this isn't going to be a hundred-page cookie cutter grief book.

You know, and and and I love that you

that you stand up against that.

And the other thing I just want to share on that and this idea that success leaves clues because, you know, I always say this, like it's usually, almost always when someone's so successful it's not an accident right it's it's a lot of things it's um

but uh when you when we were getting ready to start the interview um

we have like the first copy of your hardcover of Karen in the studio

but you quickly opened up my copy a pre-copy to check if one error was in that like a typo was that typo in there and Kelsey, I can't even tell you how many celebrities, they don't even know, they wouldn't even know if there's, or not even celebrities, authors in general, right?

There's a lot of people that, you know, they've, they've had the gift of maybe someone else writing the book, and that's great.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But the fact that you knew where the typo was and you're checking in the pre-copy, is it there?

I watched that and I had these memories flash back to me about when I was building at Cosmetics.

I knew, I knew if like on the big fixture and like the Sephora or Ulta, I knew if the wrong graphic got put in and I could see it and and I would just be like, okay, I'm gonna, do I, am I gonna,

you know, and just like, just like when you care, when you care.

And so watching you sit down and taking your own time to, because, because, because the hardcover is out now, but going back to the, the, the early copy, looking, is that one in this one?

I just saw how much you care.

And so with this idea too, that success leaves clues, I just think it's worth pointing out because it's really cool, I think, for everyone listening and watching who, you know,

who maybe has seen your great success, you know, publicly as an actor or as a producer or as a comedian or as all the things that you are, an author, everything else.

But to have that kind of insight into like, oh, okay, it's not an accident.

You know what I mean?

When you see those two things.

And I just want to call that out because

I think that

for people who details really matter,

which sometimes I wish,

oh my gosh, I know, sometimes I wish I didn't see them.

One of my best friends, she was our very first employee at our company.

We had over a thousand employees before we sold the business, but she would always

say to me before like a creative meeting when the creative team would bring in all the campaigns and stuff, she'd be like, Do you think they do shots before?

Because she knew I was going to like notice every detail.

I'm like, I need to do shots before because because honestly, I wish I didn't notice the things and I wish I didn't care so much because sometimes it's easier not to, but

when you see your success and then you just notice small things like that, I just want to call them out for everyone at home because, you know, for the person in their real life, whether it's at their job or at their, in their friendship circle or in a relationship or whatever it is, like, you know, if you're a person that really cares about details and someone else maybe gets annoyed by that or doesn't want to, whatever, like, I just feel like staying convicted of who you are and that gift that you have to see them and to care so much.

I mean, I think that's such a

blessing to be able to do that.

And so, anyways, just wanted to share that with everyone at home.

Can you

talk about

Karen visiting you and telling you that you're a water baby?

Oh,

that was an Esther,

another

reading with Esther.

That was great.

Because

that was when

that was when Karen said, remember.

Karen actually said the word remember.

And what she wanted me to remember was something so glorious.

It was fantastic from our youth that we shared, that she saw, and I'd never seen it.

She just told me it was fantastic.

But at this time, I got to see it through her eyes.

And that was an amazing regression, basically.

So

Esther said, so you're

going down into a cave.

There are two children with you.

I said,

oh, there were.

Two Chinese kids, it looked like they were about five and seven years old.

And they were

either Chinese or Japanese.

I mean, I wasn't sure.

And I was holding hands with them and said, they're going to take you into the cave.

So we went into the cave.

And then she said, take a look at them now.

And it was Karen and me when we were younger.

I said, oh, well, how did you guys do that?

And then,

so I thought maybe we would pass lives together.

But then

she said, she's going to give you something.

The girl's going to give you something.

Okay.

She handed me a surfboard.

Surfing was very important to me in my life.

Really important.

And then she said, okay, what is it?

And I said, it's a surfboard.

And then I said, well, whoa, wait, wait.

It's changing.

It's actually a slalom ski.

A slalom water ski.

And I and then suddenly it was this ski that I got at Sears.

I bought myself when I started a water ski.

I was, I think, 14, 15.

And it took me to that day when we were on the water and Karen and Luiam was driving.

Karen was sitting there watching.

She says, somebody always has to look backward at the skier to make sure that they're okay, still, you know, they haven't fallen off.

And as we went, Karen was going like this to me.

So in that moment, when I realized what was going on, she showed me what it looked like.

I looked like an angel.

I was going back and forth across the lake, kicking 20-foot

walls of water up off the ski, and right behind me was the setting sun.

So basically, it was just a glowing

angel wings of water, you know, and a young boy skipping through life.

It's pretty great.

And she

told me, she said, just remember that.

I walked out.

After the session, I said to my wife, I said, I'm a water angel.

I know who I am now.

So if I ever buy another boat, I'm naming it that.

Oh,

when you said, when I said, yeah, there's a specific reason for saying it's not a grief book, I just realized, and I haven't really put this together before, that is the guy I am.

You tell me I'm not going to do this, and I will do it.

So, God bless him.

Thanks for saying that, because you made it so much more.

You helped me to make it so much more.

And God bless the people who told me you'll never make it as an actor, because it's the same response.

It was exactly the same response.

And I've never quite gotten that until now.

Wow.

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Oh my gosh, you know that journey to believe you're actually worthy of something?

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Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough.

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Hi, I'm Jamie Kern Lima and I went from struggling waitress facing nonstop rejection to building a billion dollar company from my living room.

And it's not because I'm smarter than anyone else, I didn't have the right connections, but I figured out how to believe believe in myself and how to believe my dreams are possible and believe that I'm worthy of them.

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You hear me?

You're going to be given those things that you can apply right now to your life.

So

the moment with the...

I have never talked about this before, but I'm going to talk about it with you.

But your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.

Oh my gosh.

It's one revelation after another.

But when the most important person in your life sees you and hears you,

that is the greatest gift.

That is the greatest gift.

Sharing things that they would not discuss with anyone else.

I surrender.

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We have more tissues right down there if you want.

Yeah, loved.

Thank you, Jamie.

So especially

this show is for you if you're ready to ignite that light inside of you and learn to shine it brightly.

See, I believe where you come from or even where you're at right now

doesn't have to determine where you're going.

I know and believe you can go from underestimated to unstoppable.

You can go from doubting yourself to trusting yourself, to believing in yourself and to loving yourself, even if it's for the first time ever or for the first time in a long time.

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Blossom what you choose because you belong here.

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