Allison Holker Reveals All! Pt 1 Making Your Dreams Happen, Falling in Love with Stephen ‘tWitch’ Boss & Finding Hope after Heartbreak

Today is a very special episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. From So You Think You Can Dance to Dancing with the Stars, Alison Holker is an Emmy-nominated choreographer, dancer, host, actor, and author.
She first burst onto the scene when she competed in So You Think You Can Dance, where she met fellow dancer Stephen Twitch Boss, who she married in 2013. She and Twitch amassed millions of fans across the globe with their heartwarming spirits and inspiring dances.
In 2022, Twitch sent shockwaves through the world and through his family when he took his own life, leaving behind his wife, Allison, and their three kids and leaving millions of people asking, how could this have happened? Today, Allison is sharing parts of her story she's never shared before, with the intention, she says, of inspiring and helping others. Allison's also donating 100% of the proceeds from her brand new book called This Farm, my story of love, loss, and embracing the light to the Move With Kindness Foundation.
Coming up in this episode. I realized for myself that God gave me this purpose, and it's really an opportunity to help people.
You're holding nothing back. You go there on all the hard things in this book.
There was a year when I really wasn't willing to talk to people about it. And then I realized that I need to shift my perspective on this and I need to help as many people as I can.
If I'm not willing to talk about this situation, I realize how many other women, how many other men are too scared to have these really, really hard talks. But if I can be brave enough to speak out, maybe I can help someone else be brave enough to speak out for themselves.
I was taken advantage of. I blamed myself for years.
I must have done something wrong, and I felt so much shame in who I was. And if I would have just spoke out for myself, maybe I could have built myself back up and helped other young girls too, to not let that happen.
When I had my daughter, I realized that I need to build her up to like if anything ever happened to her, come to someone, come to me, come to someone you feel safe with and say this was wrong. And that shouldn't have ever happened.
I've never heard you talk about this before. Have you ever shared this story? I've never shared this story.
Have you shared the full story of that with your daughter, Wesley? I have. Yeah.
And that was, um, a really powerful moment for us. I do not believe for myself that I handled it the right way.
Mm. And I don't believe that I should have ever felt so much shame for myself, but it was a real feeling that a lot of women feel.
You know? And so I wanted to share it with her. And I also think it humanized me to my daughter a lot.
That something could happen to me. And at that moment, I don't feel like I stood up for myself.
It was at So You Think You Can Dance. Yes.
That you met Steven Twitch Boss. Yeah.
He was this gentle giant. And anytime he spoke, you just felt like you were learning so much.
It was just like an honor to hear him talk. And it was just such a turn on.
The time you remember meeting him, it was love at first. It was a night.
It was a night. It was a night.
It was a was immediate so y'all get together and then

can you share the story of you two doing the deed on the scaffolding of the gleesh yes the gleesh show he's cast in oh my goodness um okay it's a very famous arena and we found some stairs.

We ended up on some scaffolding above everyone watching the Glee part of the show. We were literally looking at the performers from Glee and we just started making out and we were looking down.
There's all these audience members screaming and cheering, but they couldn't see us. And there was, I don't know, it was kind of romantic.
And we started doing the deed. And then all of a sudden security was like flashing their lights.
Like, who's up here? And we just froze. Yeah, that was probably the most wild thing I've ever done.
I'm just imagining the entire audience watching Glee, having no idea. There's also another show happening.
Yes. Right there.
Right above them. Oh my gosh.
It was so dangerous. We were wild kids.
This episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show contains material of a highly sensitive nature that may be triggering for some. Including possible references to suicide, drug use, depression, and child and sexual abuse.
Viewer and listener discretion advised. Jamie Kern Lima is her name.
Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima.
Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.
Alison Holker, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here. You're such an inspiration to me.
So I just like, I'm really geeked to have like a moment to be able to get to know you and connect. And so this is truly an honor.
Well, I am just honored you're here. Today's the first day we're meeting and I've read your book.
Cover to cover, every word, intention is everything. And I would love to just open this interview up right off the top because you share so much about your own story.
You also share so many revelations that I think are going to take a whole lot of people by surprise. Maybe people will relate to them in their own family, but you're sharing a whole lot of things.
I mean, you're holding nothing back. You go there on all the hard things in this book, and I think it's gonna surprise a lot of people as it pertains to Steven.
A lot of people know him as Twitch. Yes.
As it pertains to Steven and his story, What's your intention now for making the decision to share the parts of your story and the parts of his story? Well, I realized for myself that God gave me this purpose. And it's really hard to deny when someone gives you such an opportunity.
And not opportunity because it seems so grand and beautiful, but an opportunity to help people. And I felt like there was a year when I really wasn't willing to talk to people about it.
There was a year where I was just trying to be there for my children, just be a good mom. And I didn't want to share our story.
It was too personal. It was too, oh, it was too on the nose for us.
It was too real to really have to open up to everyone and share what had gone on. And then I realized that I need to shift my perspective on this and I need to help as many people as I can.
Because if I'm not willing to talk about this situation, I realize how many other women, how many other men are too scared to have these really, really hard talks. And at the end of the day, that's what we need to be doing.

That's why we are here.

And it made me realize that God gave me the opportunity

to be a voice, to try to help other people to feel safe

and to feel like they can reach out to someone

and speak about these really, really hard topics.

And it's not that I know exactly how to do it.

I'm not an expert in this field,

but if I can be brave enough to speak out, maybe I can help someone else be brave enough to speak out for themselves. You know, we'll dive into this in a few minutes.
I have so much. I am so excited to ask you about everything you have done just growing up, everything you've gone through in your life.
Because for every person listening right now, whether you have gone through Mean Girls doing stuff, whether you've gone through figuring, thinking because of where you come from or your own family or your parents or your situation or your financial situation, somehow you can't make your dreams happen. There's going to be so many people that are going to connect to so many of the things you share in your new book that we're going to dive into today.
And also, I just want to say, in researching for this episode, I was blown away at how many people are speaking out and sharing their stories with their own partner or their own families because you have been sharing your story. And they're saying like, gosh, okay, I was much like Twitch and I felt like I needed to be the superhero and I didn't tell anybody when I was struggling.
And you sharing this, I mean, I've just been prepping for this. I have read countless people talking about how they're sharing what they're really going through and then hopefully starting their healing journey because of it.
Yeah. Unfortunately, but fortunately, that's kind of like what's giving me the wings to want to do this because I had so many people reaching out to me.
Strangers, complete strangers I do not know, reaching out to me on Instagram or on Twitter, trying to explain to me their stories that they've been so hurt in the past from a situation or men that has specifically reached out to me being like, I've never told anyone that I have been hurting for so long. And it's no one else's fault.
It's not a wife's fault or a partner's fault or the children's fault or their loved ones or their friends, but they've been hurting inside and been too scared to reach out to someone. And that through what I've experienced and my family's experience, they decided to make

the choice to get help or to talk to someone about it.

And it's helped them so much.

And so this really is like a testament to all those people that are starting to stand

up for themselves and be brave and speak out and seek out help.

And there really are so many resources out there that I was not aware of either that I'm trying to advocate for and trying to promote other people to feel safe to reach out to. Well, I want to first dive into some of the most fascinating, powerful things about your journey.
First, your journey growing up, because I think there's going to be a lot of people that are watching us right now or listening right now and like, oh yeah, I loved Allison on So You Think You Can Dance, or I love her on Dancing with the Stars. And they might just have this idea of maybe how you grew up.
But you actually, your mom had three jobs. Your dad was working overseas.
You couldn't afford dance classes, so you took on the job as the janitor of the dance studio in order to be able to do dance classes. And your mom, who's working three jobs, would sometimes come and help you in between her three jobs.
Can you share a little bit about that part of your journey and just what gave you that determination to go, let me figure this out? Well, I remember I started dance a little bit later than most girls start dance. A lot of people start dancing when they're about three or four years old.
I didn't start dancing until later. Like it was like in my early like tens, you know, like nine, 10 years old, I started dancing.
And my father was really struggling for work at the time. So he was going overseas a lot.
And so he was gone a lot of my childhood. Like when I was, you know, like those really crucial years of connecting with your dad and your parents.
And my dad was gone a lot, but it was because he was, it wasn't a bad thing. He wasn't trying to want to like run away from us.
He was just trying to like care for us in the best way he could. Right.
But he was gone, still struggling. And I was still in dance and that was kind of like my safe place.
I felt really alone with my parents both working and being gone. So dance gave me this place of friendship and my teachers kind of became my parents in that kind of role for me.
That when my dad came home one time, I was like, we cannot afford this anymore. I was devastated.
And so I went into my dance studio owner, Cheryl Dowling, with my mother. And I was like, we can't pay for this, but thank you for everything.
I love dance. It's not you guys.
I just, we have no other options here. We can't afford it.
And she was like, give me a second. Let me work this out.
And she said to me, she was like, would you be willing to clean the studio? And at that time, so I'd only started dancing for a couple of years. I was 13, I think like 12 or 13 when she was like, would you be willing to clean the dance studio? And I was like, anything, I'll do anything as I love it so much.
Even though it only been a couple of years of dancing, I knew that this was my purpose for life. I knew I was supposed to do this.
And so I literally gave up my childhood and every single night I would, you know, after school, I would go to my dance classes. I'd be there till about 9.30 PM.
And then I would clean the dance studio for an hour and a half every single night. And I would go in on the weekends and have to do a deep cleaning of everything and dusting of the studios.
And I did that all the way till I graduated high school at 18 years old. And I look back at that and I do not regret any of it.
It taught me work ethic. It taught me that I was doing something for the right reasons.
It gave me dedication. And it also taught me that I love something so grand that I'm willing to give up so much as a child to be here.
And then it also made me really respect my dance teacher seeing so much in me, giving me that opportunity. Because let's be real, I probably wasn't the best at what I was doing.
But she worked with me and made it possible for me. And so I just have so much gratitude in my heart for my mother, but also my dance owner, you know, my dance studio owner, Cheryl Dowling, for just seeing something in me and believing in me so much that she overpaid me for the job that I was doing, but she just knew I had to be there.
And so she sacrificed a lot for me as well. And I'm so grateful to have had that opportunity for all of it, though.
Like also for the commitment I learned from such an early age. And it just, you know, the more hours you put into what you love, that's when you're going to succeed.
And it's not just the talent and the skill. It's the love that you pour into it and the amount of hours you're willing to dive into something.
And so I treasure those hours at the dance studio. And it was really hard at times too, because I was a janitor and being made fun of by other dance girls, you know, other girls that maybe, you know, saw themselves as better than me or they thought it was, you know, silly me to have to work and, you know, clean the garbages and clean the toilets after them every single day.
I would be laughed at and kind of ridiculed for that. And I had to stand my ground and know that I'm doing this for a better purpose for myself.
And I believe in myself. And so it taught me a lot of like grit too.
Well, I love that because I think every single person listening or watching right now, including myself, can relate to this where we've been in a situation where we're like, have this dream, have this goal, or we're working harder. Maybe we're just in school or we just want to belong and we're trying to do it and we're giving it our best and we have people supporting us, but maybe not everyone is or we've dealt with mean girls or we've dealt with people that don't invite us to sit at the table or don't include us at the lunch table or don't invite us to the birthday party.
You say in your book, I want to read this, you say, once I started my janitorial duty, some of the other dancers teased and taunted me. They left handprints on the mirrors, knowing I'd have to clean them later.
They left cruel notes that said things like, you're trash, knowing I'd find them while tidying up after them. There's a reason there's books written and movies made about mean girls.
Teenage girls can be brutal, and the meanest ones at the studio zeroed in on me. It was rough.
Mopping floors, dusting trophies, vacuuming rooms, wiping down mirrors, scrubbing toilets, and cleaning the discarded food piles left by my peers while they returned to their comfortable lives was a humbling experience. As I collected and discarded other people's garbage, I sometimes did believe what those notes said, that I was also trash.
Yeah. It was hard.
It was hard, but it built me up. It built me up so much because I had to believe in myself.
Because also, once I would go home, my parents were still gone. So I was alone so much, but I never let it defeat me.
I never wanted it to. Mm-hmm.
I knew I could be strong on my own two feet, and I knew I belonged in there. I knew I did.
You know, now people would see you on the outside as having so much success and being on television and this and that. Do you ever now have those same feelings, like you're not enough or the words you use trash? I think that's something you always work on and have to work on.
Which is why I, for years, have believed in affirmations. Oh, and every day I start with gratitude.
I say three things I'm grateful for every single day. Small things, big things, things that people wouldn't even think about.
But my affirmations really helped to build me up every single day and I usually point out the things I need the help the most with. When it comes to beauty or feeling like I'm worthy or feeling like I deserve the love coming my way or feeling like I'm a good mother or making the right choices in my life, am I going down the right career path? I usually affirm to myself every single morning the things I'm struggling with the hardest.

But it's a choice to actively say those affirmations and convince yourself to believe it.

It's a real skill set.

Do you look in the mirror when you say them?

Yes.

You do.

I do every morning.

Do you make eye contact with yourself?

It's important to do that. I used to just write the affirmations, I am, I have, and I deserve.
I used to do one page of all, you know, I am strong. I am smart.
I am beautiful. I am kind.
I have loving kids. I have support system.
And I go down these whole lists and I used to only write them down. But in order to believe it, you have to see yourself saying it to yourself

and you have to say it with a smile on your face

and you have to see it and believe it.

And so now I say it when I'm getting ready in the morning,

which is why I love doing my hair and makeup every morning

because it's really my affirmations

and like my gratitude moments.

So I'm saying and talking to myself

and pumping myself up

because you have to be your own advocate.

You have to be your own hero.

You have to be your own biggest supporter, you know, because no one else is going to do all that work for you. You have to do it for yourself.
But it was really hard and it was a struggle for me doing it when I was growing up. And so I find that even as an adult, I do sometimes struggle with it.
And I think we should be more honest about it. There are days are so hard to look yourself in the mirror and be like, I'm amazing.
And I actually recently had a conversation with my friend and she was like, I love myself. And I was like, I was kind of like taken back by that.
And she was like, have you never told yourself you love yourself? And she's like, I know you love affirmations, but have you ever told yourself you love yourself? And I was like, no, I had never done that. So that's actually the newest thing that I've added to my affirmations in the morning is I end it with, I love me.
I love myself. And I know that sounds crazy, but I had not done that until about this last year because I wasn't a bit of a low.
I want to ask, Alison, I want to ask everyone listening to you and me right now and watching to just pause for a second and say that to themselves. I guarantee you, 99% of us have not said that.
Everyone right now listening, just pause right now and just say, I love myself. Even if you don't quite believe it, just say it, declare it, speak it with faith.
I love myself. I'm telling you that's going to be the first time maybe ever for most people or first time in a long time for so many people.
Thank you for that gift. Okay, keep going.
Affirmations. Yeah.
I do still struggle as an adult, especially with the kind of grief I went through the last couple of years with me and my children. Even though I have been doing affirmations and, you know, been so independent my whole life since childhood and taking care of myself, um, with the kind of grief I went through, it broke me for a second.
And I feel like I had to go back down to ground zero and rebuild that strength in me. I had to rebuild that confidence.
I had to rebuild who I am sitting in this chair to this day. And it took a lot of work.
And it took not just my self-work, but it took a lot of commitment from my friends and family around me, really supporting me and lifting me up and therapy. A lot of therapy.
But I'm proud of that work. And I never stopped doing those things, even on my hardest days.
I was like, I have to stick to it. And then I, of course, added some other tools into my repertoire that really, really helped that were a little bit more physical.
Because I think mentally, I had these affirmations I was doing. And now my friend telling me, which I only started doing that about a year ago, that I love myself.
And it felt crazy. The first time I said I love myself felt insane.
But I even did it with like the hands because I was like, I'm going to just scream it out loud to myself. So I've added these things, not just with the spiritual and the mental aspect, but I've also added cold plunging to my life and sitting in my sauna.
And it has just been such a game changer for me. And I think what I often tell people is like, how did you get so much self-confidence? And I was like, it was from self-dedication.
I have so many things that are non-negotiables that I do in my life now that I commit to. And that, even those little things you commit to doing daily, they're little wins that build up like, I did that for me.
I did that for myself. And so I cold plunge in the mornings almost every morning for like five minutes at 55 degrees.
It's brutal. But I know if I do the hard things, I can succeed.
And then I like sit in my sauna three times a week, which I know I'm very, very, very, very spoiled to have those things at my grasp. I understand that.
But I take full advantage of having them and they've blessed me so much in my life. And I work out, I eat healthy, I take time with friends and take time with therapy.
So all those little wins keep me going and knowing that I'm doing something to really become the best version of myself. You know, a lot of people too who maybe can't, don't have access to a cold plunge are starting to do just really cold showers.
You know, no one likes a cold shower, but it can be just like, whew, so invigorating. And so, you know, I want to call something out because there's going to be so many people right now who maybe have told themselves the story that because this happened to me or I was raised this way or, you in my childhood or all these different things and they're waiting for someone to come and maybe rescue them.
And one thing that was just so really stood out for me in your book that I found to be really inspiring and I want to call it out in case it inspires someone else today is even when you are growing up, when you're a teenager, like you just made the decision to figure it out, like to figure out how to make things happen in your life. And one example that I thought, because you know, you've hustled, you talk about grit, you've hustled to make things happen.
And you didn't sit back and go, I'm going to sit back in Utah and wait for someone to just discover me and hand me a dancing platform. You were taking action to make it happen and flying to dance competitions or to dance clinics and then flying back home to get back to school.
As a teenager, you share an example that I literally laughed out loud reading the book. But you share this example of you were about to miss your flight getting back home, and there's this long line at the airport, which we've all been in those, this long line, and you just intuitively yell, mom, you yell mom.

And line at the airport, which we've all been in those, this long line, and you just intuitively yell, mom. You yell, mom.
And all these different random women turn around and look. Of course, none of them are your mom.
You're alone. As a teenager, you're alone traveling cross country.
You would yell, mom. And all these women turn and look.
And you skillfully saw, okay, who are two close together, kind of front in the line? You go up and stand between the two of them. So then one thinks you're the other person's mom.
The other one thinks you're the other person's mom. And you make your flight.
I made my flight. Okay.
I can't even tell you the number of things I had to do as a scrappy entrepreneur with no money trying to figure out how do I get my products in the door? How do I get someone to take a meeting with me? And it was all so unglamorous. Half of it was so humiliating and

humbling and embarrassing. And when I read that, I just thought like, you know, I wanted to share

that because I think there's a lot of people out there thinking like, oh, I have this dream or I

have this goal and I'm just waiting for it to happen. It's like, no, sometimes you got to go in a line and yell mom and have everyone turn

around and figure out how do I make my flight and how do I make things happen.

Has that, has those instincts about, you know, like street smarts, I'm going to call it street

smarts.

Has that always been in you?

Do you feel like it's something you learned?

Do you feel like you're born with it?

What is it?

I honestly, I just feel like it was always in me. I really do.
I think it can be learned. I think it can definitely be a learned trait.

But ever since I was little and since I was young, I was just like, I can do this.

The thing that I know is my gift is I've never doubted myself. Wow.
I never like, you know,

there's been moments here and there I get a little bit shy or hesitant about it or let people get in

my head a little bit. But I've always known I'm going to succeed.
I can figure this out. I can do it.
I can raise my kids. I can be that single mom.
I can be a support system. I can have this career.
I can be a career and be a single mom. I've always known I could just survive and do it.
And I always knew I could do it with a smile on my face because I think since I was young, I have always believed and I understood and I still understand that life is the gift. And I've never wanted to let life get away from me.
I want to experience as much as I can. And I want to do it having fun with the people I love.
And I want to experience it all, which is also the thing that kind of harmed me the most is I've always wanted to have such a big life. But if you want to have that big life and you want to go after your dreams and if you want to go after your career, if you want to go out and see the whole world, well, there's going to also be grief in there to make you appreciate all the things that you're doing.
And so I've always known that I just, for whatever reason, I just don't hold back. I just have such this belief that like, we're supposed to go out here and do anything and everything we want.
But that comes with other kinds of stakes as well. And you know, like, running your own business and becoming that entrepreneur and, you know, starting to write books and starting to have this career and being a single mother and doing all these things, there's a price to also pay for having all that at your grasp.
But that doesn't hold me back. I still want to do it and do more.
But that is just something that's always lived inside me. And I will say my parents, my dad was an explorer of life.
He always wanted to see and experience everything. And he always tells these wild stories that when I was a young girl hearing all these stories, I was like, I want to live a big life like that.
I want to go see and have these wild stories, experiences that almost seem fake when you hear him talk. But then I also had a foundation from my mother that was this work ethic that she had all these jobs and she constantly pushed herself to be at every dance event that she could afford to go to to support me while hosting these jobs.
And now also she was raising four other kids while she was raising me. You know, so I saw my mom's work ethic and dedication to just life while she had nothing.
She didn't have this house. My mom never is.
My mom's never owned a home. My mom's had you know fancy cars or fancy clothes or bags but she just she wanted to bring as much to the table she could to support us and made us you know make us feel seen so I think I just lived with two very very different dynamics of parents being the example to show me that I could travel the world and do all this even if I have nothing you know but with hard work and, that's what I really learned from my mom is I could find both worlds and put them together.
You talk about as a dancer getting all kinds of injuries, but having to sort of like work through the pain, handle the pain, and put on a dazzling show anyways. And you talk about how that skill has translated to real life.
Yes. It's interesting being a dancer.
There's so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it.
But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.
you stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life.
And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you.
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Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below.
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And now more of this incredible conversation together. You know, you talk about as a dancer, getting all kinds of injuries, but having to sort of like work through the pain, handle the pain, and put on a dazzling show anyways.
And you talk about how that skill has translated to real life. Yes.
It's interesting being a dancer. I will stand tall on this.
Dancers are one of the hardest workers in the industry. We always have to know everything that's going on in the room.
We always have to dance through injuries. And we're taught from infancy that you better be grateful for any job you get because your lifespan in dance is very short, if you even make it.
I have danced through so many injuries. I've had cracked ribs, sprained ankles, broken limbs.
I've had a cracked clavicle that I was still dancing through. And I just had to smile and act like everything was okay.
And it does translate into social media and to my life sometimes. And I thought for a long time, if I just put on a pretty face and act like everything's okay, I can convince myself that

it is okay. And I thought, I really did think that was an amazing trait that I had.
And in times it

worked for me, but I had a huge realization for myself of how hurtful that can be to my own self,

physically, mentally, and spiritually. When really I thought I was like, look at me,

I'm a champion dancing through all this. And I am championing my way through social media acting like every day is perfect and I've had to sit back for myself and really be like I wouldn't want that for my daughter I want her to care for her body I want her to care for her mental health and her spiritual health and if she needs to miss school for a day because she wants to sit at home and cry, I hope she'd tell me.
And I could sit there and cry with her. And so through all these different experiences, I always thought and I've told people that my strength is my strength.
I stood behind that for years. And there's a lot of strength for saying that I'm not okay.
There's a lot of strength to that. And that's something I am just now learning in my life and trying to gain a little bit of a base behind.
And it's still very, very hard for me. I think the thing I struggle with the most in my life is asking for help, let alone admitting that I might need help with something.
And I have a lot of support right now of people trying to let me lean on them at the times I need it. And so I'm grateful for that.
But that has been the biggest lesson the last couple of years for me. You know, you look at the research and it's like right now, 75% of women are people pleasers, Almost everyone in their own way, shape, or form right now who's part of this conversation with us is also putting on the uniform of who everyone wants them to be, but they're hiding the real things that they're going through.
And you look at all the data of the toll that takes on every part of our body, as well as just our mental, emotional, spiritual health. So, you know, you feel like I'm just learning this now.
And at 36, it's actually very young to be learning it now. So many women, and you look at just generations before us have never learned that, right? And especially there's a lot of pressure on women, but also men to kind of like play that role and to not share what they're really going through.
And so I think that that is, even though, of course, it's so helpful at times to be able to, you know, to be able to do what needs to be done, no matter what's going on behind the scenes. And I can't even tell you the number of times I had like a QVC show with, you know, millions of dollars on the line and something was going on in my life and I would just be sobbing my eyes out in the green room.
And, but I knew I had to go out and I learned, you know, how to silo things really well. But there were times where I never actually went back to what that thing was to process it.
And that's not good because our body, there's that famous book, Your Body Keeps a Score. And I just think that it's such a new thing in our culture and such a needed thing that so many people are learning how to say, I'm not okay, or here's what I'm really feeling, or here's what I'm really going through.
And so I wanted to ask you in your book, you talk about at the age of 17, you experienced something you say was so traumatizing that it touched every part of your life. Yeah, I had experienced my first time really feeling like I'd been taken advantage of from the other gender.
Someone taking advantage of my vulnerability and my joy of life and my energy of wanting to constantly learn. I had some older man really take advantage of the vulnerability that women go through especially in the dance community where we look up to our teachers and we just trust them and dance can be very physical.
It can be very sexual even at young age and that was taken advantage And it really, it tore me apart for a lot of years because I felt like it was my fault. I felt like it was my fault because how could it have gotten to that place? I must have done something wrong.
And I felt so much shame in who I was. And I was so embarrassed.
And to this day, it's one of those things I, man, if I would have just spoke out for myself, maybe I could have built myself back up and helped other young girls too, to not let that happen. But I felt a lot of shame in myself.
And it was really hard for me to work through that for so many years. And I'm proud of myself now to be able to like kind of own that, it wasn't me, I was taken advantage of, you know.
But I wish it did not happen to anyone. I don't know why people do things like that.
But I didn't at that time stick up for myself because I was so vulnerable. And I thought and blamed me for years.
I blamed myself for years. And I, for myself, when I had my daughter, I realized that I need to build her up to like, if anything ever happened to her, come to someone, come to me, come to someone you feel safe with and say, this was wrong.
Yeah. And that shouldn't have ever happened.
I've never heard you talk about this before. Yeah.
Have you ever shared this story? I've never shared this story. And I questioned it for a long time with this book because there's already so many other things that I'm kind of an advocate for and a face of.
And I've had to deal with so many grieves. And bringing something that up was it was a really trying conversation to have with myself if I wanted to put that out there.
Not because I didn't want to be honest, but just it's a lot emotionally to put something like that out there. But then I realized that was kind of the beginning of me becoming so independent and strong and realizing that I won't ever let someone take anything else from me ever again.
Have you shared the full story of that with your daughter, Wesley? I have. Yeah.
And that was a really powerful moment for us because she didn't know. And I realized until I was writing this book, I had never talked with her about that.
And it was really important for me to share with her what my experience was. And that I do not believe for myself that I handled it the right way.
And I don't believe that I should have ever felt so much shame for myself. But it was a real feeling that a lot of women feel.
And so I wanted to share it with her. And I also think it humanized me to my daughter a lot that something could happen to me and that at that moment, I don't feel like I stood up for myself.
And my daughter always tells people like that, like, you know, she looks up to me so much for how strong I've been through everything. And I think it was important for her to see that there are things I've gone through in my life that I now look back on that.
I'm like, I could have probably done something different. I don't regret anything.
Yeah. But I could have probably moved differently if I had spoke out to someone, if I had talked to someone, if I stood my ground and saw the strength that I really am and saw that as something powerful.
And so it's really empowered us as a unit together that I share those kinds of stories with her. You look at the statistics on all different types of violations of safety or sexual abuse or physical abuse, the things that so many people go through and they never share.
And there's going to be so many moms right now hearing that you shared this with your teenage daughter and how powerful it is. And I think that, you know, everyone's circumstances are different, but I think there's

so many people that are still hiding it, that they went through it and they haven't told

anybody and they feel different emotions around it. And what a beautiful thing that

anytime any of us can use the thing that we went through or the thing we made it through

to be able to make sure someone else doesn't go through that thing or make sure they know how to navigate it better than we did when they go through it. And I think that's such a beautiful, powerful thing to do.
So I bet you there's going to be a lot of people listening right now that actually have an aha moment about maybe sharing something in their life with their daughter or their son or even their partner or they don't have to do it publicly in a big platform, but sometimes just having that conversation, like you said, can just really bond you with someone as well. Well, I think for me, what I've also realized as a parent is I didn't realize how much my kids were looking at me as like a hero, which is so beautiful.
And I think there's a lot of strength to that. And they looked at me and my daughter said to me one time, she was like, you just are so perfect.
And that was when they realized I was like, but I'm not. I have so many flaws, but the flaws make me beautiful.
But I realized that our kids look at us and if we don't share some of these things that we've experienced or decisions that we've made that maybe don't come as like the best outcome, you know, if we don't share with them enough, we don't look real sometimes to them. And then they start to question, well, if I had this weird thought or I thought about doing this, or I did this, like maybe I'm not a good person.
And so I've realized that with talking with my daughter and sharing a little bit more honest feelings about things I've done or things I've said or things I regret or things that have happened to me, then we've connected so much deeper now. And she feels a lot more honest and vulnerable with me in the conversations and the type of things that we talk about now.
And so it really has gave us this base. I don't unload onto my daughter where it feels like we need to probably set some healthy boundaries.
But I give her enough of who I am that she can really feel like she can be authentically herself with me. And be safe to share this stuff with you that she experiences.
Yeah, because she knows I'm not going to judge her. And I know that it's a trusting give where she's not going to judge who I am either.
You talk about superheroes. You say in the book that you've always wanted to save everyone around you.
Yes. And that it was a pattern that then was woven through your relationships.
Yeah, I realized through therapy, I really was unpacking some of my past relationships and a lot of the experiences I've had with past relationships. And I had the biggest aha moment with my therapist.
And she knew all along, bless her heart, she already knew, but she needed me to uncover it.

That I had felt so alone for so many years growing up and that I always had to advocate for myself.

And I always had to stand tall by myself and take care of everything for myself.

That really I just kind of wish I could have leaned on someone.

So I've been a people pleaser to so many other people my whole life because really I wanted people doing that for me. But I thought that's how I had to give love because it was what I felt like I was missing.
So I had to unpack that for a lot of years. But you know, so now I'm learning to balance myself a little bit with not being so much of a people pleaser, trying to care for everyone else.
Let them sometimes care for me and take care of me sometimes. Because that's really where stronger relationships are even built, right? Is the balance and the ebb and flow of letting someone else kind of carry your weight sometimes too.
You talk about a moment when you had your daughter, Wesley, and your life took a different direction. You got a call from So You Think You Can Dance.
And you actually turned down the offer initially. And your mom that said to you, before you can love your daughter, Wesley, you need to first love and honor yourself.
And she told you to go for your dreams. And Ed Milet, who says, he actually says, this is a very, very direct statement.
And he was on the show as well. And when he shared these words, I cannot even explain to you how many DMs, emails, all the things.
And most of the people just really resonated with these words. And a lot of people didn't like them.
But he says, one of the most insidious forms of child is a parent who doesn't go after their dreams. Because we're always telling our kids, you can do it.
You can do anything. And he says, eventually, they'll be like, okay, but why aren't you? And when you talk about the moment that you get this, I can't even imagine as a dancer getting a call from, so you think you can dance.
And what was your internal journey of going, you know what, I'm actually worthy of going after this and going for this? Well, I had to unpack so much. Like I was a single mom.
Like going back to LA, I was also kind of embarrassed. You know, like I moved back to Utah.
You know, I did everything I said I wasn't going to do. I was going to move and be this big dancer but then I had a child and moved home you know so I had to unpack like okay will people accept me again can I do it while being a mother at that time as a dancer there weren't that many other examples of single mothers dancing you know because like I said earlier like you know a lot of dancers their lifespans are short you know and so I was like can I get back out there will people accept me in this new kind of capacity is it the best decision for my daughter but then it was when my mom said those words to me and my mom said to me also that it was hurting her seeing me lose so much of who I was and what I had worked for, you know, and what she had also worked for.
And she knew how much dance healed me and brought me so much joy. So she wanted to see me back out there.
And when my mom said that to me, I was like, yeah, you're right. Everything you're saying is I cannot be an example to my daughter to chase her dreams and go after and be everything she wants to be if I give up on my own dream.
Because kids learn by example. I can talk and talk and talk my face off, which I do love to talk.
I do love to hear my voice. But I need to lead by example.
And I knew that dance, I've always known my whole life that dance was my purpose. And I was supposed to bring love and joy to people.
And I was supposed to encourage other young girls to become that version of themselves that they want to be. And so I was like, I've got to do this.
I have to do this. And for my daughter, but also for me.
You know, I think sometimes people are embarrassed to say that their dreams are also for themselves. I was for years because I was always like, I'm only dancing for my daughter to be an example to her, which I was for a long time.
But it was also for me to prove to myself that I can stand on my own and be strong and go after it. And I deserve to stand in these rooms.
I deserve to be here. And I had worked really hard.
And I really do attest all of my success to the fact that I believed in myself because I deserve to be there. And it also, having a only gave me more gusto because I can't move to LA and not succeed now.
I just have to feed another mouth, you know? So it gave me more gusto to succeed even more and do more and, and bring her, bring her that same love and joy that I had. Well, it was at So You Think You Can Dance that you met Steven Twitch Boss.
Yeah. And it wasn't love at first sight, right? No, it actually was.
It was. The time with the fishnet shirt and the piercing.
Oh, well, no, no, no. I didn't even remember meeting him.
I didn't even know that's who he was. That is true.
Okay. The first time I ever met Steven, we were, I was actually on season two of So You Think You Can Dance.
And he had not been on the show yet. And I met him at a party.
He was like, I'm Twitch. I don't even know what he said.
But he was like in a fishnet top. And I didn't know this until years later.
He told me about this. I didn't know this was happening.
So he remembers. He remembers meeting me.
Because he was a fan of mine when I was on the show.

And he had like a mohawk and he had like nine piercings, which is totally fine to have.

But that was just like, it was very different version of who I met later.

He had like nine piercings on his face.

But he was wearing like literally, if you imagine NSYNC doing a music video, that's

what he was dressed like just out in Irvine, California on like Sunday afternoon and it was like moon pants and platform shoes and I was just like apparently like not into it I was just kind of like hi and like left yeah but that was the first time I ever like met him but I didn't even know this happened yeah but honestly you think you can dance when we were all stars yeah um he both of us our positions on that, there were 12 dancers that were like the past fan favorites brought onto the show to dance with the new contestants. And I remember where like I was like, oh, this man is different.
This man is amazing. I was working with my partner at the time.
His name was Alex Wong. And we were in a different dance studio working on our routine.
And he was in a different room working with his partner. But at the end of the day, I went into his room and I was like, we would like to share, like show you guys our routine because I think like I'll get my partner's like wiggles out and like him being so nervous to perform it for other people.
I think it'd be good for him to dance in front of other people. So like, can we do like a little exchange of our routines? And he was like, that's cool.
Just give us like a little bit longer. We need some more time.
And I was like, okay. So we sat down and his demeanor with this young woman, he was so kind and so direct, but guiding her like teaching because she had danced hip hop before and he was a hip hop dancer.
So he was acting as her teacher and influence, but he was doing it with such a gentle soul. It was just the way he could command a room, but never be domineering.
He was this gentle giant. And anytime he spoke, you just felt like you were learning so much.
It was just like an honor to hear him talk. And it was just such a turn on.
And so the time you remember meeting him, it was love at first sight. It was immediate.
I was like, oh, I like him. Yeah.
Yeah. So it was just like his presence was really powerful and but soft and welcoming all at the same time.
So y'all get together. And then can you share the story? Can you share the story of you two doing the deed on the scaffolding of the Glee show he's cast in? The only reason I'm so willing to share this story is he actually shared this story on the Ellen show.

And I was devastated that he was willing to share this on TV. Oh, my goodness.

Okay. So after So You Think You Can Dance, our all-star season, our first season, which was season seven.

Man, I was on tour with So You Think You Can Dance. And then he was getting ready for tour with there was a television show called Glee.
He wasn't actually on the show Glee. But for their tour, there was an opening act with a dance crew called LXD, which was the League of Extraordinary Dancers.
And which was actually was it was produced by John Chu, who just came out with Wicked. He was the director of Wicked.
But so LXD, which was Steven was a part of, was on tour with Glee. And we were just in this like very like honeymoon phase of dating where everything was really exciting.
And we were both on these big tours. Mine was a national tour.
His was international. And so we were just traveling to see each other and, you know, support each other at each other's shows.
And he invited me to Ireland, which he was performing at the O2 Arena. Oh, my goodness.
I can't believe I'm sharing this. And so anyways, the story starts with me going to see him at his show.
And after he performed his opening act, we decided to just, you know, go explore the arena. It's a very famous arena.
And we found some stairs, we ended up on some scaffolding above everyone watching the Glee part of the show. We were literally looking at the performers from Glee and we just started making out and we were looking down.
There's all these audience members screaming and cheering, but they couldn't see us. And there was, I don't know, it was kind of romantic.
And we started doing the deed and then all of a sudden security was like flashing their lights like, who's up here? And we just froze. And then security couldn't see us for whatever reason.
I don't know. They left and we just ran out of there.
But yeah, that was probably the most wild thing I've ever done. I don't know.
I mean, the lights were going. There was music.
There was energy. I can't believe we did not get – I'm thankful that we did not get cogs.
I definitely think that would have been a very, very bad look and I wouldn't suggest it for anyone else, but it was just a very in the moment moment. I'm just imagining the entire audience watching Glee, having no idea.
There's also another show happening. Yes.
Right there. Right above them.
Oh, my gosh. It was so dangerous.
I don't know. I don't know how that happened.
But yeah, there we go. That happened.
Yeah. Yes.
We were wild kids. That phase of like new love.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. It was really fun.
Or for a lot of people, existing love, you know? Yeah. I want to transition now to November 17th, 2022.
So you and Steven were on the Jennifer Hudson show. Yes.
And you were both talking about having another baby. And three weeks later, what you call the incomprehensible happened.
This conversation with Alison Holker is so impactful. We made it into more than one part and you are not gonna wanna miss part two with Alison Holker where she shares things and reveals things that she's never shared before.
That's coming up in the very next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. If you got value out of today's episode, my only ask is that you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show on your app, give it a five-star rating or review, and then share this episode with everyone you believe in.
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You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
Here, I hope you'll come as you are, heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy.
You are loved.

You are love.

And I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show.
If you or someone you know is struggling, please contact the Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988 or text the word strength to theTH to the Crisis Text Line at 741-741 or go to 988lifeline.org. To receive 24-7 support from the National Sexual Assault Hotline, call 800-656-HOPE.
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