“Success Leaves Clues” Robin Roberts on How to Defy the Odds, Embrace Your Worth and Win! (pt 2)

Speaker 1 I surrender.

Speaker 1 I surrender.

Speaker 2 We have more tissues right down there.

Speaker 1 And I went to my mama and I said, I'm angry at God. I knew that as a black woman, that my margin of failure, my margin of error was less than...

Speaker 2 And you're going for it, putting yourself out there saying, pick me.

Speaker 1 And he saw Oprah Winfrey qualities. God's delays are not his denials.

Speaker 2 Do you ever doubt God exists?

Speaker 1 You are going for the juggler.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. I love this, Jamie.
I don't have these kind of conversations. Oh, you're good.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 You are a pro here. I'm talking about...

Speaker 1 Can I just for a moment, as a pro,

Speaker 1 just give you kudos that you've barely looked at your notes, that you have been so, you're so well prepared, and that you really want to...

Speaker 1 It's not about me and it's not about you. It's about the listener.
I'm I'm sorry, I'm just so impressed.

Speaker 2 Do you now

Speaker 2 ever feel unworthy? Woo!

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh, such a good question, Jamie. You know, I do look up to the heavens sometimes and go, come on, enough is enough.

Speaker 2 I have a letter

Speaker 2 from

Speaker 2 your wife.

Speaker 2 A letter from your wife.

Speaker 1 What are you doing? You're going for the jugular again.

Speaker 2 Would you

Speaker 2 be willing to share it?

Speaker 1 I have not seen this.

Speaker 1 I feel loved. I feel

Speaker 1 understood. But I'll never forget how you made me feel today.
I will never forget this feeling. It is a gift to be able to

Speaker 1 talk to a friend

Speaker 1 the way you have today.

Speaker 2 The more we do that, the more our life tastes like freedom.

Speaker 1 I need daydreaming.

Speaker 1 Shots all around.

Speaker 1 I need daydreaming.

Speaker 2 Before we jump into this episode, I'd love to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews and one-on-one conversations with me and you to help you truly believe in yourself, trust yourself, and know you are enough so that you can become unstoppable in living your best life.

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Speaker 1 Jamie Kern-Lima is her name.

Speaker 2 Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their wife.

Speaker 1 Jamie Kern Lima.

Speaker 1 Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

Speaker 2 She's been saying good morning, America, to you and millions of viewers every single morning morning for the last two decades as co-anchor of America's number one morning show.

Speaker 2 Welcome to part two of my interview with Robin Roberts.

Speaker 2 I want to talk about something I'm so passionate about and so excited to share with everyone. I believe, you know, there's this famous saying, success leaves clues.
Success leaves clues. And

Speaker 2 oh, I love this so much because

Speaker 2 so often it's easy to see someone who is in the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame, multiple New York Times best-selling author,

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 just, you know, the most famous anchor in all of America, America's number one morning show for two decades.

Speaker 2 So you can see these things and go, oh, maybe she got lucky, or maybe it came easy, or maybe we think, oh, things like that don't happen to people like me is what so many of us think.

Speaker 2 And the other thing a lot of people tend to think is like, oh,

Speaker 2 I'm talented. I'm trying hard.
Someone's just going to discover me. It's just going to happen.
Or I'm not doing the things I want to do yet because no one came knocking on my door.

Speaker 2 We tell ourselves that's what must have happened.

Speaker 2 Robin must have just been discovered and catapulted to.

Speaker 2 And so I want to talk about this for a minute because there's so many granular things about your journey that I feel like people can apply these to their life right now, wherever they're at.

Speaker 2 And it may shift their perspective on the things that they're hoping to, you know, create and ideate and give and serve and express and offer the world.

Speaker 2 But they're sitting around waiting thinking that it's just not happening for them and they don't know why.

Speaker 2 And so on this idea of success leaves clues,

Speaker 2 I just want to ask you a couple things

Speaker 2 on your journey. Okay.
Because, you know, you've mentioned, you mentioned doing the episode with Gabby Bernstein on the vision board and you're saying, I'm going to get married this year.

Speaker 2 But can you talk about

Speaker 2 in 1979, 1979,

Speaker 2 you writing, you basically creating your own vision board on this whiteboard in your bedroom. Can you talk about that? Because again,

Speaker 2 I'll let you talk about that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But also on that vision board, and it wasn't called a vision board back then.
It It was just a, you know, piece of cardboard and I

Speaker 1 magic marker and I was saying keys to success. I misspelled the world word success.
I had S-U-C-E-S-S. You know, my mom, who's an English teacher, was like, oh, boy, you know, she comes in there.

Speaker 1 Like, you might learn how to spell success if you're going to be a success. I was like, oh, mama.

Speaker 1 But I had on this board. Because at that time, I wanted to be a sports journalist.
And you didn't see women and you surely didn't see black women on television as a sports anchor reporter.

Speaker 1 But that was my goal because it's so important to identify what you're passionate about. And for me, it was sports at the time.
So I put on the board, okay, I'm going to get my college degree.

Speaker 1 I'm going to work in a small market, X amount of years, medium-sized market, X amount of years, ESPN.

Speaker 1 Had it on the board, been to work at ESPN.

Speaker 1 And I go to Southeastern Louisiana University, which I'm very proud about, majoring in communications, working for a local radio station, getting some practical experience, and people really weren't still after graduating.

Speaker 1 Cumulati, a lot of people, they graduate. Thank the lottie, but I graduated cum laude.
And still people aren't beating down the doors to sign a black woman to do sports on television.

Speaker 1 Was receiving full-time offers in news.

Speaker 1 Kept turning them down. Kept turning them down.
I didn't want to do news. I wanted to do sports.

Speaker 1 Received one part-time offer, 30 hours a week, $5.50 an hour to be the weekend sports anchor in Hattisburg Mississippi I didn't hesitate to take that part-time job because here it is okay on the vision board I'm now working in the small market really small market and and and kept advancing on but it was so important to me to dream big but focus small I had big dreams.

Speaker 1 I know you did too as a child. Yours was the world hunger.
I love that.

Speaker 1 That was your ultimate goal. And you're going to get there, my friend.
But to dream big, focus small. And so all along the way,

Speaker 1 this overnight success, this journey, and when I went to bigger markets,

Speaker 1 every single time I had to take a pay cut. I had to take a pay cut to get to a bigger market because I would be making decent money where I was, wanting to advance.

Speaker 1 people have to take a chance on me and so i would go in for whatever salary they would pay me because i would think once i get in the door, I'm going to show them my grit.

Speaker 1 I'm going to show them my determination. And I was in Nashville, Tennessee, Jamie,

Speaker 1 doing well.

Speaker 1 I get a call from ESPN. I'm like, how does, you know, I'm three, four years out of college? This is, no, this is, this is not supposed to happen right now.

Speaker 1 One of the local stations, because I did so well, they sent my tape to ESPN to try and get me out of the market, which I was like, I thank this station. Anyway, I go to ESPN, 1987.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they're not quite sure how they're going to use me. And I actually turned them down.
I actually turned down

Speaker 1 ESPN that was on my vision board because I knew I wasn't ready. I knew I wouldn't have staying power.

Speaker 1 I knew that as a black woman, that my margin of failure, my margin of error was less than that of my white counterpart.

Speaker 1 That they could mess up and they'd still be okay, but I was going to get that maybe one chance. And so I turned them down and went to a bigger market in Atlanta, got the practical experience.

Speaker 1 Then ESPN came calling again. So this was, again, that crooked road, but always, always, always having that big focus, that big, big dream, but the small focus,

Speaker 1 but focusing small on that ultimate dream.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I love this so much and I want to break it down on a granular level for a few things for people listening because I'm hearing like five big themes just in what you what you shared that I want everyone to kind of think about in their life right now.

Speaker 2 And the first is, you know, even at a young age, like you wrote it down, like you put it out there on your, you said, you said S-U-C,

Speaker 1 yeah, S-U-C-E-S-S. S-U-C.

Speaker 2 Have you been on Success Magazine on the cover?

Speaker 1 Have you? But I think you have.

Speaker 1 We need to make this happen.

Speaker 2 I see this happening because you know those moments in life that are full circle. Like I'm imagining your whiteboards with success written and I'm imagining Robin Roberts in the cover.

Speaker 1 I'm hiring you as my PR agent.

Speaker 2 This is going to happen. I feel it.

Speaker 1 Put it out to the universe.

Speaker 2 But you wrote that down. You even wrote ESPN.

Speaker 2 Like you literally wrote your stuff out. Do you believe in the power of

Speaker 1 the written word? Yeah. Because when...
To me, if you don't write it down, it's a dream. When you write it down, it's a goal.

Speaker 1 And I love dreams, but goals seem more attainable, especially as an athlete. So when I write it down and you see it and you're staring at it, it's just something very powerful about that.

Speaker 1 So yes, so that's what I did initially.

Speaker 2 And then I know when you,

Speaker 2 you know, you shared you took pay cuts or you took a part-time job instead of the full-time jobs you were offered. And I'm remembering,

Speaker 2 you know, when I was starting in journalism and a lot of my peers, I was in business school at the time. A lot of my peers were taking these big paying jobs in business.

Speaker 2 I went and and worked for free for free at a teeny tiny station learning how to shoot and write and edit and i continued i mean and you should have seen i could barely pay the bills and i know that and in your situation I think, you know, you had these other job offers, but they were in news.

Speaker 2 At the time, that wasn't what you're wanting to do. They were paying more.

Speaker 2 I think I read too that even maybe loved ones were saying, oh, that's a better, more secure job. But you chose so many people, Robin, this I'm getting fired up.

Speaker 2 So many people, we think, oh, let me play it safe. Let me do the thing that pays more or that is going to get more approval from my friends and family.

Speaker 2 Oh, my parents always said I should go be a lawyer, whatever it might be, right? And you could have done that at that moment in time.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you chose a lesser paying job that was part-time.

Speaker 2 to go after your passion over what was safe, paid more, what people were telling you to do.

Speaker 1 Because I was still dreaming big.

Speaker 1 I was still dreaming big.

Speaker 2 You knew what you want.

Speaker 1 But yes, I knew what I wanted, and I knew that it was important to focus small. And I can remember graduating from college, asking my classmates, oh, where are you applying?

Speaker 1 Where are you sending your tapes? And they'd go, oh, like New York, Chicago, all these.

Speaker 1 And they look at me and they say, where are you sending your tape? I'm like, Tim Buck Two. I want a job.
I want to learn. Yeah, I want to eventually work in Chicago and LA and those big markets.

Speaker 1 But do you think that

Speaker 1 I knew that I was not ready? And so many times we don't really, I mean, it's good to have a high opinion of yourself. It's good to, you know, have confidence.
I'm all for that.

Speaker 1 But to also get real with yourself, to really get honest with yourself.

Speaker 2 To kind of know where you're ready, what you're ready for. So you can, you know, one thing too that I want to ask, because I did this as well in my career.

Speaker 2 A lot of people do like, oh, you just, you just, whatever.

Speaker 2 So you, when you were in

Speaker 2 smaller markets,

Speaker 2 you would reach out proactively to the news directors in Nashville saying, I'm going to be in town. You can interview me.
It won't cost you anything. You don't have to fly me in.
I'm going to be here.

Speaker 2 It's going to be free. Like you were proactively.

Speaker 2 Like you weren't waiting around for someone to discover you. You were proactively saying, hey, right? You're going after it.

Speaker 2 I've had to, Robin, I've had to do that my whole life in every single thing that's ever happened.

Speaker 2 Like even with Building It Cosmetics, I'm just sending stuff to L'Oreal for years before they noted it.

Speaker 2 Like it's, it's always just, and I want to call this out because a lot of people think it's just going to come to them or fall upon them or they'll just be discovered.

Speaker 1 And it's just not the case. And part of it is because they look at reality TV, you know, and oh, I want to be a movie star.
I want to be a rock star.

Speaker 1 All I have to do is go on the show and boom, it happens like that. Yes.
But other than like Kelly Clarkson, who really has been able to sustain a career, that's another story as well.

Speaker 1 But I think that's, we live in this kind of society that I want it now and I can get it now and not have to put in the work.

Speaker 1 But I never, I never, I just didn't buy, I didn't buy into that. And I, I just, I just.

Speaker 2 That takes discipline. You're talking about the three Ds.
Like, so you get a call from ESPN.

Speaker 2 Two things I want to say about that. The first is, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 1 But I want to talk about the Nashville bit. Okay, yes, okay.

Speaker 1 Because I think it's very important, especially for young people, especially if you're trying to do something that you don't see anybody who looks like you.

Speaker 1 But again, success leaves clues, and this is what you do: get creative. And so, I knew that I needed to get to a bigger market to finally make it to ESPN.

Speaker 1 And I didn't have the money, and I didn't want to put the pressure on news directors where I was sending my tape.

Speaker 1 So, I'd asked my mom and dad, who were traveling a lot in the southeast, where are you going next? And they were going, well, we got church business in Nashville.

Speaker 1 I'm like, can I tag a log and stay in your hotel room? Right. They gave me advance notice.
I sent my tapes out to Nashville.

Speaker 1 Only one person, Alan Griggs, who is a friend to this day, news director at WSMV, NPC affiliate in Nashville.

Speaker 1 And I remember him saying, I told him, I'm like,

Speaker 1 I'm paying for myself. I'm going to be in town.

Speaker 1 I would love for you to critique. I wasn't asking for a job.
I value your position and would just really appreciate any advice you could give me. He's like, oh, no, skinofty snows.
Great.

Speaker 1 I go in with my blue skirt and blue little blazer and my little, you know, my briefcase that had nothing in it, and go sit across from Alan Griggs, who's had a mustache, and he's like rubbing his mustache and he's looking at my tape.

Speaker 1 And he was really quite taken by it. And he's like, you know, I don't have a position open.
I'm like, well, you know, but I appreciate the feedback. He said, but I'm going to keep you in mind.

Speaker 1 And it was just a few months later he created a position, lifetime reporter at WSMV, lifetime reporter. And that I could also work work in the sports department.

Speaker 1 It was because I was being proactive, I was being creative, I was trying to find a way to take pressure off of somebody who's going to make the ultimate decision.

Speaker 1 And, you know, Alan Griggs, and he said, and I'm telling you, I saw him, I saw him three times last year.

Speaker 1 He's now an instructor at a school in Nashville. But it was just knowing if I could get in the door, if I could just sell myself.

Speaker 1 And even then, and I'm not trying to steal it, even then I knew I was worthy.

Speaker 1 I knew I was worthy.

Speaker 1 I just needed to have, I knew I was worthy because I was putting in the work. I believed it.
I dreamed it. I felt it in my bones.
And I knew that I just needed help. I just needed somebody else to

Speaker 1 see me as being worthy. And Alan Griggs told me, and I'm not, I'm just being honest.

Speaker 1 Oprah Winfrey was from that market,

Speaker 1 was some years ahead of me, just a few years ahead of me. He put my tape in and he saw Oprah Winfrey qualities in me.
That's not me saying this. This is what he said.
This is what he felt.

Speaker 1 And so I needed him to see my worthiness.

Speaker 1 People are going to be placed in your path. And this is why it's so incredibly important who you expose yourself to, who you...
Yes. And some of it you have control over it, some of it you don't.

Speaker 1 And so I did know that about myself. And I'm so grateful that I was able to find somebody else who felt that way about me as well.
But I think he also appreciated my creativity, my boldness.

Speaker 1 You know, I took a lot of nerve. A little, you know, here I'm coming from Biloxi, Mississippi, come busting into his office with my little suit and my little briefcase.

Speaker 1 And I think there was a part of him that was like, the audacity of this woman thinking that she, and, and why did he say yes? I'm sure there were countless people who sent him tapes.

Speaker 1 Why did he say yes to me?

Speaker 1 Some of it is luck. Even the great Tiger Woods will tell you.

Speaker 1 Luck is a component. It's not the sole means, but it is a component.
I think that in addition to being blessed and being fortunate, there's been some luck, but I've also

Speaker 1 created that luck.

Speaker 2 You got emotional when you said he told you he sees Oprah win-free qualities in you. What does that mean to you?

Speaker 1 I know she's a dear friend of yours. I am so grateful when we said success leads clues.
I can remember Oprah being on the Johnny Carson show.

Speaker 1 I can remember as a young black girl seeing her on his couch

Speaker 1 and thinking, wow,

Speaker 1 wow.

Speaker 1 And, you know, the phrase that you'll hear from time to time you got to see it to believe it

Speaker 1 you do sometimes and I think I needed it at that point even though I was excuse me being very sure of myself that I'm going to be a sportscaster one day

Speaker 1 because of my passion of sports my passion I just knew it was going to happen but you start doubting yourself even though I would give that that that give off that persona especially because I was an athlete like you know being a little confident in that.

Speaker 1 All of us have this, these insecurities that we're scared. And all fear just needs an eye of a needle to get through, to consume and paralyze you and keep you where you are.

Speaker 1 And sometimes you just need a sign. And seeing Oprah on Johnny Carson was my sign.
And then for years later, for Alan Griggs to say that I had some of her qualities,

Speaker 1 I really, at that point, I was like, I'm on my way. I'm on my way.

Speaker 1 And just so really grateful. Grateful to her for her example and grateful to him, Alan Griggs.

Speaker 2 I think it's so beautiful when we feel seen and when we also know it's the truth, you know?

Speaker 1 Ooh, say that again.

Speaker 2 Like in that moment

Speaker 2 for him to say you have these Oprah Winfrey qualities.

Speaker 2 and usually

Speaker 2 and to see the emotion in your eyes, I think it's because at the time you knew it was true.

Speaker 1 Yeah, validation.

Speaker 2 It's like, oh, and the truth of who you are and being seen. And

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 2 I feel that same way about when did you first feel seen and heard?

Speaker 2 Well, let me just say, I feel

Speaker 2 I had this whole conversation yesterday with Sarah actually,

Speaker 2 where I'm like, how is Robin here?

Speaker 2 Like how, and I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about

Speaker 2 you in so many moments in your life right now, by the way. I'm thinking about you writing ESPN on your whiteboard and then you're.

Speaker 2 the top of ESPN, what 15 years you were there. Thinking about you watching Oprah Winfrey on Johnny Carson.
Then I'm thinking about you becoming her dear friend and doing masterclass with her.

Speaker 1 Like, how,

Speaker 2 and I'm going to not make it about me for a moment. I'm going to cry all my makeup off because sitting here with you is that for me.

Speaker 2 And if I'm just being really honest, like

Speaker 2 in the last 24 hours, for me to feel worthy that you are here

Speaker 2 has been

Speaker 2 a journey.

Speaker 2 You know, and I think about

Speaker 2 I know in every ounce of my being that every one of us is fully worthy, exactly as we are or fully enough.

Speaker 2 You mentioned unlearning in the start of our interview and it's like our life is unlearning those lies that lead to self-doubt that say we are not worthy of it.

Speaker 1 Lies do we tell ourselves.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just think,

Speaker 2 I just think that

Speaker 2 I'm imagining you in his office with your empty briefcase you shared.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 2 Your empty briefcase.

Speaker 2 It's like when we're on the phone, but we're not really on a call because we all look really busy. You got an empty briefcase.

Speaker 2 And him telling you that and believing in you. And I just,

Speaker 2 you know, and I think too,

Speaker 2 just to bring it also back to everyone listening right now, I just want to highlight this again, Robin, because you

Speaker 2 reached out to try and move to a bigger, like you're saying, okay, just look at my tape, just give me feedback. And I want to tie this in and jump ahead for a second that

Speaker 2 you weren't at ESPN very long before

Speaker 2 you marched into an office.

Speaker 1 Can you share that? Yeah, I had only been at ESPN not even a year and was doing Sports Center, which was great. You start on the like overnight, like at 2 a.m.

Speaker 1 in the morning, and then you work your way up.

Speaker 1 There was an opening on a little show called NFL Prime Time with Chris Berman and Tom Jackson. It was the hallmark of the network.
And their third anchor was moving on to do something else.

Speaker 1 And so there was an opening. And so I marched into John A.
Walsh's office, who, by the way, John was at my wedding.

Speaker 1 These are people, I mean, here I talk about Alan Griggs, who I know to this day, and John A. Walsh.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Walked into John's office and said, you know, John, I know there's an opening on the Sunday morning, the Sunday evening show.

Speaker 1 I'm doing Sports Center Sunday morning, so I could just stay and do prime time.

Speaker 1 And I know he's probably looking at me like, you should be lucky that you're even here. And here you are.
Are you nervous?

Speaker 2 So you're walking in.

Speaker 1 I don't even know why I did it, Jamie.

Speaker 1 I just knew that

Speaker 1 I wanted something to set me apart. I still had goals that I wanted.
I wasn't just wanting to be at ESPN. I wanted to make a mark there.
And so to go into his office and

Speaker 1 it wasn't like he was going to come to my desk and go, hey, you want to do NFL prime time?

Speaker 1 There were a lot of people that were vying for it.

Speaker 2 Most people just sit there at their desk and they wait, hoping someone will come to them and say that. I know.
I just want to call this out again.

Speaker 2 You're not even there very long and you're going for it, putting yourself out there saying, pick me. pick me consider me and pick me i know

Speaker 1 and it's true go in there and he said you know he looked at me and he goes let me think about it and it was by the end of the week he came in he goes i'm going to take you up on your offer you can be the third anchor on on uh nfl primetime and i was like thank you i was thinking like how this happened

Speaker 1 but i don't i don't i'm trying to trying to in my mind i'm like how did i have the audacity what did no one talk to me about i didn't have an agent or anything at that time. I don't know.

Speaker 1 You don't have a personal development coach saying, Robin, tomorrow, let's march into this office. Exactly.

Speaker 1 But there's just something about, and I think, again, like with Alan Griggs, I think that John was like,

Speaker 1 well, who?

Speaker 1 And I think that impressed them. And not that that was my goal.
My goal was just like, I really want to do the work. I really think I can help.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 So sometimes we're scared to put ourselves out there, but it actually can be such a beautiful example of our strength and our tenacity and what they're getting if they do hire us or they do promote us, right?

Speaker 2 In both cases.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And can I just say this too? All right.
And for women, because men can be underqualified for something and they will march in.

Speaker 1 They, I don't know what it is about guys, but they, but as a woman, we think we have to be perfect on paper and we have to be overqualified for a position.

Speaker 1 And it's just not the case where men just tend to, I don't know, they're just like, oh,

Speaker 1 they'll go for it. Isn't Isn't that wild?

Speaker 2 Like you look at the data right now, right now as we're speaking, and

Speaker 2 it shows men are promoted based on potential and women are promoted based on.

Speaker 2 like 100% already done accomplishments, which is very different.

Speaker 2 But also women, you look at all the research, women will wait until they feel 100% qualified before they'll apply for something, before they'll go for it.

Speaker 2 And I think this is huge because you can look at your journey journey and it's like example after example, even before you had a lot of experience just making the decision to like, let me proactively, you know, see if someone in Nashville will take a meeting with me and

Speaker 2 doing all that. And two things I want to call out before we, before we move past them, because we're talking about success leaves clues.
And I just want to say

Speaker 2 one of these things that you, this is a granular detail, but I think this is important because

Speaker 2 you had ESPN on your vision board.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 because a competitor station wanted to advance in the ratings in Nashville, they send your tape in trying to get you out of the market.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Which, by the way, just side note, every day I say this prayer, I pray God brings the right people in my life, has the wrong ones leave. And I pray that any plot formed against me

Speaker 2 is exposed and revealed and backfires.

Speaker 2 And what I mean by that is I think God can use even our enemies for our favor.

Speaker 1 Oh, Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think about how

Speaker 2 people that just wanted you out of the market, they send your tape to ESPN. You get a call from ESPN.

Speaker 1 It's like, thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you. So sometimes, you know, the opposition coming against us can really be used for our favor.

Speaker 2 But you, what I want to call out is this, because to your point earlier, we're in this day and age, right?

Speaker 2 2024, where there's like no barriers to entry online, to being an expert. There's no, people think that if, you know, I can just instantaneously

Speaker 2 have fame, fortune, all the things. And there's a lot of examples on social media that look like that is true.

Speaker 2 And I think we're in this day and age of a lot of people being at risk of being overexposed, but underdeveloped

Speaker 1 in what they're doing.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I've, I am grateful to meet so many entrepreneurs and they're just so tempted right now to have everything that looks good on the outside, but they're underdeveloped on the inside.

Speaker 2 Their infrastructure is not caught up. Their regulatory compliance and safety is not caught up, but they're just selling like hot cakes on a certain website.

Speaker 2 And there's just this moment in time where so many people are overexposed and underdeveloped. And I think that that can work in the short term.

Speaker 2 But in the long term, if your development doesn't keep up or match your exposure, it can easily all come crashing down. And I just want to call this out because this takes so much discipline, Robin.

Speaker 1 One of the D's, one the three D's.

Speaker 2 Right? That you get a call from ESPN on your

Speaker 2 whiteboard, your vision board, and you decide to say no,

Speaker 2 and that you want to get a little more experience before they come calling again. That is scary for a lot of people, but you made this decision.

Speaker 2 Oh, I want to develop more so that I can get there and be at a certain level. Like, how did you do that?

Speaker 1 Because I took the time

Speaker 1 to know me

Speaker 1 and to know my strengths as well as my weaknesses. And I knew, I knew in my heart of hearts, I knew that I wasn't ready.
I knew I wasn't. And I knew that my margin of error was less than someone else.

Speaker 1 I did not want to be the answer. Bottom line, I didn't want to be the answer to a trivia question.

Speaker 1 What black woman was hired in 1987 by ESPN and fired in 1988 by ESPN because she didn't know her stuff. And I just think it is so important to take that time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 part of it is also, how do I say this?

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's risky.
It is.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to say, like, oh, yes, I knew that once I said no to them, that they were going to come call. I had no idea if they would come calling again.

Speaker 1 But I... believe this with every ounce of my being that God's delays are not his denials.

Speaker 2 There is so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it.
But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.

Speaker 2 You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life.

Speaker 2 And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you.

Speaker 2 In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness, overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome, achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more.

Speaker 2 Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?

Speaker 2 Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below.

Speaker 2 Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you.

Speaker 2 It's time to find out with worthy.

Speaker 2 Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief.

Speaker 2 And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter.

Speaker 2 to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me.

Speaker 2 If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you.

Speaker 2 If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy, and love, hitting your inbox, I'm your girl.

Speaker 2 Subscribe at jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes.

Speaker 2 And now more of this incredible conversation together.

Speaker 1 And I know that, and I know that you know this as well with your business, how you were wanting to get on QVC or whatever.

Speaker 1 And had you done it when, had it happened when you wanted it to happen, you would have failed. But it happened at the right time.

Speaker 1 And so the same thing with me. And it's very difficult at the time when it's happening.
It's easier when you look back and go, oh, but all

Speaker 1 faith.

Speaker 1 At the end of the day, it's about faith. It's about, and when I say faith, and I don't want people who are listening to roll their eyes and go, oh, here we go.
No, it's real. It's real.
It's true.

Speaker 1 And I have,

Speaker 1 I won't say unwavering faith because I'm telling you when I was going through my illnesses and I went to my mama and I said, I'm angry at God.

Speaker 1 She said, said, sure you are. Just don't stay angry.
And so

Speaker 1 I'm honest with myself about

Speaker 1 things like that. And to know that at the end of the day,

Speaker 1 why did you start it cosmetics? It was pure.

Speaker 1 There was a reason behind it. You didn't go like, oh, I'll do that.
I'm going to make a bunch of money and do that.

Speaker 1 No, your motivation was to help yourself with your skin condition and what others were going through. And so I know that my intentions are pure.
I know that.

Speaker 1 And I know that because they are pure and that they are intentional. You have a beautiful, beautiful home.
And I look around and it's like everything is intentional. Just everything.

Speaker 1 And it's and it's not a bad thing. It's like, wow.
Would we take the time to

Speaker 1 be mindful?

Speaker 1 and intentional and just let there are some things that are going to come in that are just just that we have no control over and that's fine but I think those things that we can control and I can control how I respond I can control how I feel it's not always that way but to at least be consistent in that I think is really it's bone it's bode well for me to have that philosophy you know When you look at studies, 75% of women right now deal with imposter syndrome.

Speaker 2 It's such a thing. And you've shared how going from ESPN to the third co-anchor of Good Morning America, that you had some of those feelings of imposter syndrome.
And

Speaker 2 how did you handle that? And how did you break through that?

Speaker 1 You know what? I remember when I was

Speaker 1 talking with Michelle Obama, her book, Becoming,

Speaker 1 and I read where this beautiful, talented woman with two Ivy League degrees, former First Lady of the United States. She had

Speaker 1 the imposter syndrome. She had that feeling.

Speaker 1 We all do. I don't care who we are.
I don't, you know, so please, I don't care at what level you are as a woman. We just, we, it's, I don't, I don't know if it's because it's fed to us at a young age.

Speaker 1 So, how did I get through it?

Speaker 1 Time, my friend. I'm different now than I was when I was younger and dealing with the feelings that I had.
So

Speaker 1 a lot of it had to do with just being patient and persistent,

Speaker 1 hearing that inner voice and realizing the things that I was saying about myself, I would never say to you, Jamie. I would never say to a stranger.
So why was I saying it to myself? And just

Speaker 1 being

Speaker 1 aware and cognizant of that. But

Speaker 1 it took, it's a little bit easier now that I'm in this season of my life than it was

Speaker 1 when I was younger. I'm so grateful that my two older sisters and my mother were great, great sounding boards.
And

Speaker 1 I know this as women, it's like...

Speaker 1 I don't, I'm not looking for an answer sometimes when I talk to someone. I just want you to hear me.

Speaker 1 May not be a solution, it's okay. Um, especially when we talk to men, men are like, I'll fix it.
And I'm like, I don't want it to be fixed. Just let me just tell you how,

Speaker 1 just listen, just listen to what I'm going through.

Speaker 1 And so I'm just grateful that I've recognized the different stages. But back then, what got me through it, especially when I was sitting next to Diane, who is a dear, dear friend, and Charlie Gibson,

Speaker 1 I was so grateful to someone like Diane, who who was a mentor, who really helped me and would kind of like put me under her wing and tell me it was going to be okay.

Speaker 2 Do you now ever feel unworthy?

Speaker 1 Woo!

Speaker 1 My

Speaker 1 mission

Speaker 1 is to be a messenger.

Speaker 1 You know how I used to think that I want to be a sports anchor. And that's my passion and that's my purpose.
And boy, has it led me to

Speaker 1 my true purpose?

Speaker 1 It's kind of like what we were talking about earlier when we were walking and what brought you joy as a child and what you want to do in the season that you're in in your life right now, your speaking that you're doing, the books that you're writing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's just that feeling of

Speaker 1 knowing I'm supposed to be a messenger of hope, that I'm supposed to let people know that this too shall pass. And I think I'm a walking, breathing symbol of that.

Speaker 1 And there's something to be said of

Speaker 1 now feeling when I have those moments of feeling unworthy, those moments of

Speaker 1 that come from time to time, it's getting quiet. And I remember something my mom would say.

Speaker 1 I can have a bad day and sometimes when I do. And I remember when I would call her and say, mom, I'm having a horrible day.
Nothing is going right.

Speaker 1 And I'm feeling, I'm feeling, you know, unworthy or whatever. And she, oh, honey, oh, honey, oh, honey, where are you right now? I'm at home.
Okay, go to bed in the day.

Speaker 1 If you're having a bad day, why are you staying up? In the day, because you know what? Tomorrow is going to be a brighter day. You are going to be, and it's so true.

Speaker 1 How many times have you felt at the end of the day or for whatever, like you're just having that kind of day?

Speaker 1 And you go to bed, you wake up, the sun is shining, and you're just thinking, oh, I can do it.

Speaker 1 And so that's what I, when I feel those moments of unworthiness that creep in, I just let it, it's kind of like what you were alluding to earlier, how I was about fear.

Speaker 1 And when you address it,

Speaker 1 it runs away. It's like a little kid, you know, when, you know, you have two chips, mommy, mommy, mommy.
And they're like pulling at you, mommy, mommy, mommy. And you look at you, you go, what?

Speaker 1 And they look at you like nothing. Uh-oh, I don't want anything.
They were just wanting your attention.

Speaker 1 And that's how I feel that those feelings of unworthiness and fear it's like hey hey hey hey and i go like what you want oh you you wreck oh no i didn't want anything i just wanted you to know i was here i'm like okay

Speaker 2 run along i love too it's like so often we can give what we need in order to get it

Speaker 2 and like you you know sharing you're feeling unworthy and then you go and you help someone else but you remind her that she's you know remind them that they're worthy and it's like that's kind of the quickest also solution to it which i think is so powerful and by the way brighter by the day day, talking about going to bed, because tomorrow's a new day as well.

Speaker 2 And what you just shared about

Speaker 2 your mom's advice, it's funny. I've been very recently actually trying to live that advice.

Speaker 2 And even with my husband, with little things like you get a negative email that just wants to take you down, you're like, what? You know, all those things.

Speaker 2 And we started a new thing where we wait till the next day to reply.

Speaker 1 Because so often, I know.

Speaker 2 So often the reply is so, or a text message where you're like what

Speaker 2 so often like everything changes that next day it's funny you should say that because

Speaker 1 Amber and I were posting a lot about our wedding

Speaker 1 and we had a second honeymoon yeah and

Speaker 1 also almost like a second wedding my siblings wanted to throw us a party in New Orleans and it was like second lining and we were and we posted all this excitement and that a second wedding cake and and posted it And there was especially the video of us dancing, the second lining.

Speaker 1 And there was a comment in

Speaker 1 one of the posts, and it says, it said, let me quote it, geez, enough already. And I was like, oh, well, maybe I am, oof.

Speaker 1 And I went to bed and I was not, I was like, oh, I don't know. And there were, you know, so many positive comments, but that one, and I kept thinking, I'm like, geez,

Speaker 1 enough already.

Speaker 1 The next day,

Speaker 1 a dear friend reached out to me because her nephew is quite ill and wanted me to do something.

Speaker 1 And she said, you are a burst of joy. I'm going to watch the video that you just posted.
I'm going to watch it again.

Speaker 1 Woo! And I'm thinking, here I was like, oh, like, oh, this person's, geez, but you know what? this friend and possibly others, they needed that burst of joy

Speaker 1 as she put it.

Speaker 1 So I'm glad I didn't respond or feel that at that moment when it happens. It's like you go to bed, you wake up, and you just, it is, you just, it is, I do feel that I'm brighter by the day.

Speaker 2 Do you read

Speaker 1 negative comments?

Speaker 1 Where's Amber?

Speaker 1 Because she, she got me. I, back when I was still, was, was first starting, not first starting, but part of my time time at Good Morning America.

Speaker 1 And I would read, it was the message boards. That's how long, that's how old I am.
It was the message boards. And there was one, his moniker was Bubba.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I'd be like, oh, Bubba said this, Bubba said that. And she's like, why? Why are you, why are you,

Speaker 1 as I've gotten older and now,

Speaker 1 I just don't, I don't, I post, but I also want to to engage with people. I do like to respond to them.
And it used to be that I would not only, but I would respond to the negative ones.

Speaker 1 You know, why do we do that? Like we're trying to, especially when I was younger.

Speaker 1 But not so much anymore. It's, but also when somebody does say something, if it's, if it's constructive, you know, I will respond.

Speaker 1 And I think they're almost as surprised that I am responding to what could be seen as a negative response. But you know what?

Speaker 1 In all honesty, in all honesty, yes, I read them, but they don't impact me as they once did.

Speaker 1 But I think those of us who say, you know, know that we don't see it are not maybe being really truthful. I think we all do read them, but it's just

Speaker 1 getting to a state where it just no longer has the impact that it once did.

Speaker 2 Do you still, with all that you've accomplished and just how held in such high esteem you are with all of it, do you still face or deal with discrimination?

Speaker 1 yes i am a black gay woman in america

Speaker 1 and though we are where we are uh yes yes i do but you know what i have it's something that my mom and dad taught me i remember being out of college applying for a job and i didn't get it And I went back to my mom and dad, I didn't get it.

Speaker 1 You know why? Because I'm a black woman. That's why I didn't get it.
They were like, oh, no. Honey,

Speaker 1 maybe you didn't get it because you're not good enough yet. You know, maybe that.

Speaker 1 My parents said very gingerly, you know, we love, but maybe you're not good enough yet. Maybe that.
Don't look for that to be an excuse.

Speaker 1 Don't look for that to be the reason why you didn't get something. So yes, I am.
There is discrimination. There is discrimination that I face,

Speaker 1 but I don't let it define me. I don't,

Speaker 1 it hasn't prevented me, nor will it prevent me from achieving all that it is that I want to achieve. But yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 I want to ask you something that I feel like

Speaker 2 every person listening is going to be able to connect with this question because every single one of us in life, we have setbacks. Sure.
We get bad news. We get bad breaks.

Speaker 2 And for so many of us, one really just awful thing happens and like we think we're doomed. And

Speaker 2 when I look at everything

Speaker 2 you have

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 like, I mean, 2007 being diagnosed with breast cancer, 2012 being diagnosed with MDS, being told you may have one to two years to live.

Speaker 2 Very recently, the love of your life, your wife, Amber, being diagnosed with breast cancer, turning the tables and you being a caretaker.

Speaker 2 How have you, like on a granular level, how have you

Speaker 2 gotten through so many setbacks

Speaker 2 and made it through, not just got through, but made it through so many setbacks and have come out victoriously?

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, thank you. Thank you for feeling that way.
It hasn't always felt that way for me.

Speaker 1 But I love when you keep saying granularly.

Speaker 1 Because it's got to get down to the nitty-gritty.

Speaker 1 And I think you and I, no, I know you and I both want everyone who's listening, every single person, and might not be everybody, but just at least one person, to have that takeaway, to have something that

Speaker 1 there's a reason why they're listening to us right now. We don't know what their something is, but we want them to

Speaker 1 be helped. What has always gotten me through

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 the fact that,

Speaker 1 oh, gosh, such a good question, Jamie. Jamie

Speaker 1 a belief system that sometimes I don't even know where it comes from and

Speaker 1 I really

Speaker 1 again look back to my parents and I'm very grateful that

Speaker 1 you know some parents I'm I don't know about

Speaker 1 they don't want their child to fail no but no parent wants their child to fail

Speaker 1 I would hope that

Speaker 1 My parents weren't there to prevent us from falling. They were there to pick us up when we did.
And there's a difference with that. They would...

Speaker 1 I remember my mom telling the story when

Speaker 1 my brother was very young and they were living in the South for the first time and there was the colored water fountain and white.

Speaker 1 They got out of the car and my parents were, and my brother went running up to get some water. And they were mortified, like, how are we going to explain to our son about colored and white?

Speaker 1 And he, he pulled toward the water and the colored, and then he stepped back and he goes, this water's not colored. You know, we thought it was going to be colored water.
Yeah. And my parents exhaled.

Speaker 1 And then they were able to have a conversation with him about

Speaker 1 what was going on. My parents are very good about

Speaker 1 teaching us

Speaker 1 about what life was like for us growing up in

Speaker 1 this world, in this country, as a black person.

Speaker 1 So I'm grateful that they kind of

Speaker 1 did that.

Speaker 1 I don't know by the grace of God in some ways.

Speaker 1 And the reason I hesitate, because I want someone listening, I want them to be able to grasp onto something

Speaker 1 so they can get through. their something.
But this is what I say in something that helped me.

Speaker 1 Everybody in this room that's here, your fabulous crew, everybody throws their something in a big pot in this room, middle of this room, and you look at your something compared to everybody else's something.

Speaker 1 Chances are you're going to take your something back. You have no idea what somebody else is going through.
And so don't compare your despair and it's yours and it's real. And so

Speaker 1 what has gotten me through each one is each one has helped me get through the next one.

Speaker 1 Because it's like this big big mountain, and we climb it, and there's another summit ahead, and we're like, Oh, I can't climb that one.

Speaker 1 Instead of looking back and going, Oh my gosh, you see all these mountains I've already climbed? Why do I think this one is so insurmountable when I've already climbed so many?

Speaker 1 And so, that's the conversation I have to have with myself when you know when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I was devastated, but got through it.

Speaker 1 And then MDS, and I'm like going, Oh my gosh, I'm like, Well, all right, I was here.

Speaker 1 And then when my sweet amber was diagnosed, and you know, I do look up to the heavens sometimes and go, come on, enough is enough.

Speaker 1 But this is something that I've said before, that

Speaker 1 the lessons that I've learned through all, I mean, everybody listening, and I know you feel the same way. The adversity, you've learned so much more.
Yes, you want all the glory.

Speaker 1 Yes, you want all the good stuff. But it's those

Speaker 1 tough times

Speaker 1 that we learn so much about ourselves and that we're richer for it. I'm not going to be one of these people, cancer is the best thing that happened in my life.
No, it is not. But you know what?

Speaker 1 Boy, the lessons I learned from it with both of my health challenges. Now, I wish that he would have wanted me to learn it a different way about what it is I was supposed to learn.

Speaker 1 But this is the way it was chosen for me. And I'm grateful for those lessons and grateful to be able to share those lessons.

Speaker 2 How did you stay in faith through them?

Speaker 2 I know you mentioned you were angry.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Thank God.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 my sister does this and I, no, I'm not ashamed to talk about my family. I love, you know, sometimes, I remember one time I was being interviewed and

Speaker 1 I was speaking glowingly about my family. And the person pulls me aside and says, you know, it's really not going to work.
People aren't going to buy it.

Speaker 1 And I'm, you you know, if you really want to help people. And I'm like, I'm not going to apologize for having the upbringing that I did.
And so I'm not. But I remember

Speaker 1 with my siblings,

Speaker 1 the conversations that I would have with them. And the one thing that my sister Sally Ann often says, often says to us, and I know, ugh,

Speaker 1 she will say, when we're having a bad day and things aren't going well,

Speaker 1 she will say, think about our ancestors who were on that ship,

Speaker 1 who were on the bowels of that boat, and they survived and we're here because of them.

Speaker 1 Think about what they have gone through. And so when I really do stop and think about that, and then think about what is it that I'm so worried about? What is it that I'm trying to

Speaker 1 get past that I think is so huge. And I think about, and I think everybody should think of their ancestors.
And it's not just a cultural thing with African Americans.

Speaker 1 I think all of us, all of us can think of the history of our families. And you've got five of them to think of, so many different families that you have.
But just to take a moment to think about

Speaker 1 those who went through the Depression, those who went through so, you know,

Speaker 1 such difficult times. And so, when I do that, Jamie, when I do that,

Speaker 1 it just causes me to pause. Do I still hurt with what I'm going through?

Speaker 1 Do I still feel like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to say it's a magic pill that gets me, that makes it go away, but it just gives me that moment to pause. And that's all we need sometimes.

Speaker 1 We just need a moment to pause and to think,

Speaker 1 okay, how bad really is this?

Speaker 2 Your mom,

Speaker 2 you lost your mom in 2012. And the last year that she was here, can you talk about her writing God letters?

Speaker 1 Oh, I still want to publish it. She wrote a whole year of dear God letters that we found

Speaker 1 after she passed.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it was remarkable. And sometimes they could be very simple.
Sometimes they were a whole page. Sometimes they were just a sentence or two.

Speaker 1 And I just think about how here she was

Speaker 1 talking about the love of her life. Well, actually, it was very dear.
She referred to her four children as the four loves of her life, which I just love that.

Speaker 1 I don't know if daddy would have liked that, but

Speaker 1 we did.

Speaker 1 But here she was, somebody who went to college on a hundred-dollar scholarship to Howard University, met my father,

Speaker 1 was a

Speaker 1 career woman in

Speaker 1 being a wife. And

Speaker 1 I think we moved like 12,

Speaker 1 15 different times that she had to set up a new home.

Speaker 1 And then for her to be on the State Board of Education in Mississippi, of which she became the chair.

Speaker 1 And she would always get on these committees that she would later become the chair of the committee. And she was always the first

Speaker 1 woman, the first black.

Speaker 1 And I love the fact that when she, when my daddy was stationed at Keesler Air Force Base before I was born in the in the 60s, in the 50s, they were there.

Speaker 1 And my mom couldn't be a member of the Officers' Wives Club. They wouldn't allow her.
We go back later in the 70s, I'm born. She becomes the president of the Officer Wives Club.

Speaker 1 That kind of spirit was always in her. And so to find those dear God letters and to

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 here she was

Speaker 1 so many health issues and she still found something to praise God about every single day. Could find that silver lining in everything.

Speaker 1 And so I'm just so grateful that we found those and that she was able to find comfort in

Speaker 1 putting down her words like that.

Speaker 2 Do you ever doubt God exists?

Speaker 1 You are going for the jugular.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. I love this, Jamie.
I don't have these kind of conversations.

Speaker 1 No, I don't doubt it.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 I found my, I think I'm a, I, no, I'm a spiritual person more so than a religious person. I don't, I can't spout scripture or anything like that.

Speaker 1 And I know some people will say the universe, somebody, you know, but to me, God exists. To me, the way I was raised, the way I believe.

Speaker 1 And I know that people say, so if he does, then how can we have the wars that we have? How can we have children dying of cancer and things like that?

Speaker 1 I don't have those answers,

Speaker 1 but yes,

Speaker 1 yes, yes. How do you know?

Speaker 2 How do you know he exists?

Speaker 1 Because I am sitting right here. Because I'm here.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 I'm breathing.

Speaker 1 I'm a human being

Speaker 1 that makes mistakes,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 is forgiven,

Speaker 1 who is

Speaker 1 blessed beyond her wildest imagination. So, how do I know he exists? I mean, like, when you think about it, I'm so glad we're having this conversation.

Speaker 1 When you think, I mean, nature, go walk for a moment in nature and you tell me that God doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just everything about, and it was when I went through, this is when I really knew he existed.

Speaker 1 When I was going through MDS and I had to have the bone marrow transplant,

Speaker 1 which means that my complete immune system had to be depleted, I went through nine consecutive days of the most strenuous chemo to wipe my system out, then to insert my sister's healthy stem cells.

Speaker 1 So we're in the hospital room.

Speaker 1 There's the syringe with my sister's stem cells. My doctor, Sergio Geralt,

Speaker 1 is inserting them into the tube, into my chest. I can see he's wearing a mask, and I can see that his mask is moving.
He's saying something. This is a doctor, renowned.

Speaker 1 And after he did it, I said, what did you say? And he was praying to God that this was going to work, even though he'd done all, like,

Speaker 1 he had done all he could, and now he was leaving it up to God. And he was saying, go, he's going, go, Sally, go, go, Sally, go, because those were the cells that that were going in me.

Speaker 1 The fact that my complete system could be depleted, these healthy stem cells could be inserted, and I am sitting here across from my beautiful friend.

Speaker 1 So, yes, that gives me all the proof that I need that he exists. And

Speaker 1 that's the reason why I'm here.

Speaker 2 Well.

Speaker 1 That is so beautiful and powerful.

Speaker 2 I went through like a long season in my life of doubting God exists. And it was the first time ever going to therapy and sharing that with God.

Speaker 1 What brought you to that point of wondering if you exist?

Speaker 2 I was just around so many people that only believed in science and believed in things you can prove and see, which faith is not required.

Speaker 2 And the more and more I was just around that, around a lot of people,

Speaker 2 especially living

Speaker 2 on the East Coast in New York City, around a lot of people that just kind of thought like, oh, if you believe that stuff, you're not that smart, or you're this or you're that.

Speaker 2 Or a lot of people would have also kind of turned away from faith because they felt judged by it. And I was just around a lot of that and started to wonder if God exists.

Speaker 2 And I am one day in therapy, first person in any of my five families that I'm aware of that's ever gone to therapy. And

Speaker 2 I actually shared with my therapist, I said, and on top of all of this, I'm starting to doubt if God exists. And that day she said to me something that literally changed everything for me.

Speaker 2 I don't even know if she practices any particular faith, but she said to me, well, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? And I'm like, well, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 And she goes, if he created the entire universe, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt? She goes, why don't you try telling him you're doubting him and asking him to prove you wrong?

Speaker 2 And so I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 And that day,

Speaker 2 And this took years, but from that day forward, every time I would pray, I would, this is going to sound like super amateur or embarrassing, but at the end of the prayer, I might be praying for a friend's health or something like that.

Speaker 2 I would end the prayer with, and by the way, God, I'm doubting you exist. So if you could please show up in my life and prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful.

Speaker 2 In Jesus' name, amen.

Speaker 1 I would literally end prayers that way.

Speaker 2 And Robin, like, and it took years,

Speaker 2 but.

Speaker 2 beyond a shadow of a doubt, I know God exists. And the number of times he showed up in ways where it just

Speaker 2 is indisputable in my journey. And And so it's been a journey, but just sharing that too for anyone who

Speaker 2 maybe is in that season of wondering. And that prayer sure helped me.

Speaker 1 I love that prayer.

Speaker 2 Sharing that. And I love that your mom wrote dear God letters.
I love that she, did you think she intended for you and your siblings to see them?

Speaker 1 I don't think so. I don't think so.
It was her relationship.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was her relationship. I mean, we were going through a drawer and happened to

Speaker 1 find them. I don't think that she intended them to be found.

Speaker 1 But it was just so powerful to know that in that season of her life when so much was changing and that she still, she still had this relationship. She still had this relationship with God.

Speaker 1 But I love hearing your story. And I'm glad that we're saying we're talking about it because it used to be

Speaker 1 taboo to talk about religion or God or anything. And for me, as an anchor to every morning or most mornings, post a morning message and prayer.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 And for people to

Speaker 1 accept it and look for it. And when I'm like on assignment or something, like, oh, we missed your prayer and that.
And I just, and it starts with a simple one, and I wear it around my wrist.

Speaker 1 It's called the two L's and the two P's. When I could not remember this prayer, my mother would say, the two L's and two P's, light, love, power, and presence.
The light of God surrounds me.

Speaker 1 The love of God enfolds me. The power of God protects me.
The presence of God watches over me. Wherever I am, God is.

Speaker 1 And I just, from that simple prayer, that I wear the keywords around my wrist every day. And so when I have those moments of doubt in that, I'll kind of look at it and just kind of be reminded.

Speaker 2 Do you call that your unity prayer?

Speaker 1 The unity prayer. Yes, it is the unity prayer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's so powerful. And you're wearing it right on your wrist, which I just love to share for anyone who might be listening versus watching.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're good. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 You are a pro here. I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 Can I just for a moment, as a pro, just give you kudos that you've barely looked at your notes, that you have been so, you're so well prepared and that you really want to

Speaker 1 it's not about me and it's not about you it's about the listener and i know that about you yeah i know this about you that you're not when you said just moments ago that you're like hey you might want to make sure this isn't about you and want to make it about

Speaker 1 neither one of us wants to make it about ourselves And I'm so grateful to have this conversation. I'm sorry.
I'm just so impressed. I'm just, this is as a friend.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 2 Thank you for that. Thank you.

Speaker 2 That means so much coming from you. So So thank you.
I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 I am, I just think, you know, I'm thinking of your mom right now and your dad also, but them up in heaven right now, how do you think they feel

Speaker 2 watching you?

Speaker 1 Well, they are. And they're swinging their legs over the heavenly balcony.
They're swinging their little legs and they're nudging each other.

Speaker 1 You know, my mother

Speaker 1 was here long enough to see me reach a certain level level that my father was not able to, though he didn't care.

Speaker 1 As mother and father, they, you know, they just wanted their four children to be responsible human beings. They didn't care about the TV aspect of it.

Speaker 1 But it was really cool because every morning my mom and dad would be watching The Morning America. And I would call them every single morning after the show.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I miss that.

Speaker 1 I miss that. So I know they were very proud of that.
But what would they be saying right now?

Speaker 1 They would be so

Speaker 1 they would be so happy because they know that I'm with the love of my life,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 my childhood pastor, who they, my parents knew very well, Reverend Jemerson, married us in our backyard.

Speaker 1 And I think what they would be most proud of, and they would love you, Jamie, and I mean that. They would, because they would know that when somebody is

Speaker 1 afforded such a great opportunity platform and the things that you've done, you don't have to do what you're doing.

Speaker 1 You don't have to be trying to make a difference that you are in so many lives through your speaking and these wonderful network of friends that you have

Speaker 1 have met and the books that you've written. My parents appreciated people like yourself and myself

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 1 want to be a service.

Speaker 1 And that's all my parents ever wanted. They just always wanted to be our family motto, to be of service to others.
And to,

Speaker 1 we had a foundation for a time, each one save one, and just knowing that

Speaker 1 they were

Speaker 1 given

Speaker 1 a hand up.

Speaker 1 to get to where they are and that they're grateful that I'm trying to do the same.

Speaker 2 Did you feel their presence when you walked down the aisle?

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. We did something during the ceremony in our backyard.
It was very like, we had a lively reception where there was lots of dancing, and it was great.

Speaker 1 But the actual ceremony was in our backyard with this immediate family. My brother walked me down the aisle.
Amber's brother walked him, her down the aisle. Both of our fathers are deceased.

Speaker 1 Her mother, thankfully, is still living and she was there, Mama LaDonna.

Speaker 1 And there was a section of the the ceremony where this beautiful violinist

Speaker 1 played songs that were of significance to our

Speaker 1 parents. And it was a lovely, lovely medley.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 1 she played my father's song,

Speaker 1 A Wonderful World, Louis Armstrong.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 I just, I lost it.

Speaker 1 I lost it. And then my sister sang my mother's song,

Speaker 1 Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine.

Speaker 1 My story, my song, which was also the title of my mom's autobiography before she passed.

Speaker 1 I felt their presence then. Oh,

Speaker 1 there was, you know, we had

Speaker 1 Reverend Jemerson, who knew my parents very well.

Speaker 1 And there was some kind of

Speaker 1 something happened and there was like an electric, not electrical short, but there was

Speaker 1 with the mic or something, there was a burst of energy or whatnot. And he said, Hi, Larry.
Hi, Lucy Marion.

Speaker 1 My parents' names. He was like, That was them being there.
So, yes, absolutely felt their presence.

Speaker 2 Well, speaking of their presence, speaking of the love of your life,

Speaker 2 I have a letter

Speaker 2 from

Speaker 2 your wife.

Speaker 2 A letter from your wife.

Speaker 1 What are you doing? You're going for the juggular again.

Speaker 2 Would you

Speaker 2 be willing to share it?

Speaker 1 I'm reading this cold. I have not seen this.
Yeah. RR,

Speaker 1 my boo-boo.

Speaker 1 Having you by my side as we share this life together is a gift.

Speaker 1 You make this world a better place for everyone who enters your orbit.

Speaker 1 The love you have for your family and friends is heartwarming and speaks volumes of who you are as a human. You are so incredibly loyal.

Speaker 1 The way you feel for others is so beautiful.

Speaker 1 The quiet ah you make

Speaker 1 makes my heart skip a beat.

Speaker 1 Your parents would be proud of how you treat everyone that enters your world.

Speaker 1 If people spend a day with you, they'll receive a masterclass in how to treat one another.

Speaker 1 Your parents are looking down from their heavenly balcony, so incredibly proud of their daughter.

Speaker 1 You are humble, kind,

Speaker 1 eloquent, and have a sense of humor that makes everyone smile in your presence. Thank you, my love.

Speaker 1 for making my days brighter each and every day.

Speaker 1 With a full heart, sweet amber.

Speaker 1 Are you going to make all your guests think they're significant other?

Speaker 1 Write them a letter. It's for you.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 When you read that, you feel what?

Speaker 1 I feel loved. I feel

Speaker 1 understood. I mean, like even some of the, remember how I said about my parents' heavenly balcony? And she said, heavenly balcony.

Speaker 1 Realizing, not saying she's proud because I'm Good Morning America, or I've written books or that, but because of how I treat other people.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 at the end of the day, we all want to be seen and heard.

Speaker 1 But when the most important person in your life sees you and hears you,

Speaker 1 that is the greatest gift.

Speaker 1 That is the greatest gift.

Speaker 1 Jamie,

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, to use my Angelou,

Speaker 1 I'm not going to remember everything we said or did, but I'll never forget how you made me feel today. I will never forget this feeling.

Speaker 1 I won't remember everything that was said and done, although we're going to have a good time. We're going to have a good time today, and we are.
But

Speaker 1 it is a gift to be able to talk to a friend the way you have today.

Speaker 1 I know this was a dream of yours to have a program, to have a show.

Speaker 1 I hope and pray that it's everything

Speaker 1 that you intend it to be.

Speaker 1 And I have no doubt that it will. I have no doubt that it will.

Speaker 1 And as my mama said,

Speaker 1 and I have it on a pillow, We all have gifts. Discover yours and share it with the world.

Speaker 1 And that's what you're doing. You're sharing your gifts with the world.
So grateful that you have and are.

Speaker 2 I love you.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I know people can't see this.
I have this used Kleenex that I'm using as a white flag saying, I surrender.

Speaker 1 I surrender.

Speaker 2 We have more tissues right down the wall.

Speaker 2 If you need more.

Speaker 2 Robin, thank you so much

Speaker 2 for being on the, the, being part of this, for sharing your heart with me, for sharing your heart with millions of people every single morning all across America, for being an example of what's possible, an example of defying the odds, like for sharing your heart, for literally shifting culture in this country, like for being an icon, for being a titan, for being an incredible friend.

Speaker 2 Like, yeah. Thank you.
Thank you for all that. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for doing this show with me.

Speaker 1 Can I put my reporter's cap on for just a moment? Why are you doing this show?

Speaker 2 To help every person

Speaker 2 feel less alone and more enough.

Speaker 1 And how are you able to feel less alone and more enough?

Speaker 2 Learning to believe I'm worthy of it, learning to believe I'm enough.

Speaker 2 which is a lifelong journey. And

Speaker 2 sharing like who I really am, which is scary.

Speaker 2 And doing the work to believe I'm worthy of being here with incredible people like you.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You gave me an advanced copy of your book that people are going to now be able to read in 2024.

Speaker 1 You shared some stories you never shared before.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Because I think that

Speaker 2 so many of us

Speaker 2 doubt ourselves out of our own destiny, cancel ourselves before we even try, all those things. And

Speaker 2 I share a lot of things in my book worthy that I took out

Speaker 2 and then I put them back in because kind of like what we were talking about earlier, I know it's not about me. I think so many people

Speaker 2 disqualify themselves. based on their past or their past mistakes or where they come from or what they don't have enough of.

Speaker 2 And I think those are all lies we have to unlearn. I definitely have.
So yeah, I share some stuff about my past. Woo!

Speaker 2 Robin.

Speaker 1 I remember when I read it, I read it.

Speaker 1 I reached out. But I also remember after I read your book, usually we'll text or leave voice memos.
I called you. I wanted to have a conversation with you.

Speaker 1 I needed to have a conversation with you because I knew what you must be feeling. That is raw, what you put out there and knowing the impact it would have.

Speaker 1 And we all, even though the stature where you've reached, we all are like, oh,

Speaker 1 you're always a little bit scared.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's like when something, it's like what you shared earlier after you like step by step by step cried,

Speaker 2 cried

Speaker 2 live on air as a third co-anchor of Good Morning America and then shared. your diagnosis is one at a time and then shared who the love of your life is.

Speaker 2 It's like, it's like, the more we do that, the more our life tastes like freedom.

Speaker 1 Woo!

Speaker 1 Yeah. It tastes like freedom.

Speaker 2 Okay, before we wrap, one just special thing to share with you because you can't come on the Jamie Crane Lima show without me giving you a little, just a small token of your magic and a thank you

Speaker 2 to you. Sarah, your accomplice.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 she's your accomplice. It's just a little, little, little, little thing.

Speaker 2 And I wanted to do something together. Actually, if you're down for it, I wanted to do something together.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 Oh!

Speaker 1 I love it. Just simple.
I have been eyeing.

Speaker 1 I have been eyeing your shoes.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 I always,

Speaker 2 I always think of, I always think of Dorothy, Wizard of Oz. I always think of like the,

Speaker 2 you know, that sometimes we look outside for everything and the magic, but it's all all in us it's all in you i thought this would be fun oh more than enough

Speaker 2 and you are worthy thank you so much thank you thank you

Speaker 2 thank you so much for joining me today and before you go i want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true you right now

Speaker 2 exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world.

Speaker 2 And it is an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern-Lima Show.

Speaker 2 And here, I hope you will come as you are and heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy.

Speaker 2 You are loved. You are love.

Speaker 2 I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Curnlima Show.

Speaker 2 Do you struggle with negative self-talk?

Speaker 2 Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit.
The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful.

Speaker 2 And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life.

Speaker 2 It's called Five Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk and Build Self-Love.

Speaker 2 And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals.

Speaker 2 Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief.

Speaker 2 If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlema.com/slash resources or click the link in the show notes below.

Speaker 1 I am so excited for this book.

Speaker 3 You know why? Because it's going to save so many

Speaker 1 people.

Speaker 1 It's going to save you. Were the

Speaker 1 your new beautiful book worthy, get this book? This book, I'm telling you, it's a book that can change anybody's life who picks it up.

Speaker 3 Anyone who's ever felt that they were not good enough, didn't measure up, something's missing in your life.

Speaker 1 I have to tell you. It's powerful.

Speaker 2 It's happening.

Speaker 2 It's It's worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you.

Speaker 2 I went from struggling waitress facing non-stop rejection to founder of It Cosmetics, a billion-dollar company by learning how to overcome self-doubt and believe I'm worthy of my hopes and dreams.

Speaker 2 And I'm sharing how you can too in my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life.

Speaker 2 If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self-doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then worthy is for you.

Speaker 2 It's time to go from doubting you're enough to knowing you're enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be.

Speaker 2 And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it. Because in life, we don't become what we want.
We become what we believe we're worthy of.

Speaker 2 Join the worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of Worthy anywhere books are sold.

Speaker 2 Then head to worthybook.com now for free gifts, including my five-part course on becoming unstoppable and my 95-page Worthy Workbook action plan that teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now.

Speaker 4 Worthy is groundbreaking.

Speaker 1 Yo, my god! Worthy, you are worthy! This book is gonna change lives.

Speaker 2 This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence.

Speaker 4 The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book.

Speaker 2 Jamie's Book Worthy is a must-read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve.
Jamie's Book Worthy is incredible.

Speaker 2 The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com.

Speaker 2 This show is presented solely for entertainment purposes only. It's not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist, professional coach, or other qualified professional.

Speaker 2 I hope you enjoyed this episode and conversation together, and I am so grateful to be on this journey with you.

Speaker 2 And did you know for every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show, there are a set of special prompt questions just for you to help you on your journey of aha moments and revelations in your own life from each episode.

Speaker 2 Make sure you join my free email newsletter at jamiekernlema.com to get them sent to you each week. And each episode is meant to be evergreen and packed with timeless life lessons.

Speaker 2 So you can go back and listen to past episodes you perhaps haven't heard yet as we are going on this incredible journey of building self-worth and living our best lives together.