JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

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Speaker 1 All right, well, come on. What's happening?

Speaker 3 Pleasure. No, please, my pleasure.

Speaker 1 My pleasure for having me here. My honor.

Speaker 1 I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm very excited about your journey into the lightweight division.

Speaker 3 Something that I feel very excited also about that.

Speaker 1 What are you walking around around at? Like, what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45?

Speaker 3 I'm going to tell you in kills.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 I walk around 80, 82.

Speaker 1 What is that, Jamie? Like, 160, 170? 175?

Speaker 3 175? 180.

Speaker 1 180.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you were losing quite a bit of weight.

Speaker 3 35, 25, 30 pounds.

Speaker 1 Oof. Yeah, that's how.

Speaker 3 That was hard. That was the hardest part of my training, of the fight game for me.
I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple of fights that I had. Because it's like

Speaker 3 I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in a fight game, you know? And it was taking a lot of time and energy from me. And I'm like, my dream is to become a world champion.

Speaker 3 I want to end up this chapter that I have that I started in 145. And now it's time to really enjoy it.
And I'm very excited about that.

Speaker 3 I already have one fight in 155.

Speaker 1 Jai Herbert. Jai Herbert.

Speaker 1 I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way.

Speaker 1 Why is allowed to do that? I don't. It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do.
It's like you're, you know, I mean, if you're saying you're 180 pounds, you're not really 145, right?

Speaker 1 So it's crazy that you're the 145-pound champion, but you're 180-pound man. It's kind of nuts.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but at the same time, if you go to the next weight class, you are playing with a disadvantage because the guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight.

Speaker 3 So if you don't do that, at the end of the day, you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like Islam. Islam Akachev is huge.
I mean, that guy, how he makes 155 is, I don't understand it. Every time I stand next to him, like, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 155? How much do you think he walks around?

Speaker 1 He's got to be 190-ish in the 190 range. He's got to be.

Speaker 3 That's what he looks like to me. I never saw him in a person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and big.
I mean, he's not a small, he's not a 155-pound man. It's just so silly.
The whole thing is just,

Speaker 1 it's an old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes.
I've talked to Dana about this.

Speaker 1 I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC. I said the first thing you should do is get rid of this.

Speaker 1 Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes. You know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85 and then 85 and 205, they're too big.

Speaker 1 The gaps are too big. 20 pounds is nuts.

Speaker 3 I would do something with it with the drag test. Like if I go to your home to make the drug test, I put you in the scale.

Speaker 3 If you walk around like 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the next weight class.

Speaker 3 Just to give you an example, for example, if you're fighting 100 kilograms, I'm going to say 10 kilograms, and I go to your house, I do the drug test, I put you in the scale, and your weight is 110.

Speaker 3 kilograms, I will force you to go to the next weight class.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that's realistic. That makes sense.
And I think that they should have more weight classes because the weight class gaps are just too large.

Speaker 3 Oh, maybe that's an option, also.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 at the lower weight classes, it's 10 pounds, which seems reasonable, but really at the lower weight classes, and you know, when you look at like 125 and 135, it could easily be five pounds.

Speaker 1 Five pounds is reasonable. But Dana doesn't want like 12 weight classes or 15, 20 weight classes like boxing has.
He wants it to be like the UFC has now, but it's not enough. There's no

Speaker 3 real reason behind that. But I would love to talk to Tana and ask him this questions also because it's kind of dangerous also for the guys.

Speaker 3 And many times you put on a show for the people and you don't really know if they're going to make the weight.

Speaker 1 Right. Exactly.
And they're going to be compromised. I mean, there's a lot of guys who fight just deeply dehydrated from the day before.

Speaker 1 And even though they've rehydrated themselves, their brain's not rehydrated yet.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 1 It's not smart and it does it's not it's also not necessary. Like why would you it would make for better fights.

Speaker 1 Why would you want someone to be physically compromised 24 hours before they're fighting? It doesn't make any sense at all.

Speaker 3 But at the same time the way cut takes something out from you that's crazy.

Speaker 3 It's like putting a dog inside the room for 20 days without any food and you open the door and you put him in a different room with full of food. It's like the same thing.

Speaker 3 You know, when I'm cutting the weight, I'm a different person.

Speaker 3 I feel that I'm like, my mind goes different, my thought process is different, everything is so different at that moment. I'm not so kind when I'm cutting weight.

Speaker 1 Yeah, more focused,

Speaker 1 dialed in. Exactly.
Dominic Cruz says it's a good thing. He says he likes weight cutting because it gets you dialed in.
He says it gets you completely dialed in for a fighter.

Speaker 3 How much he cuts?

Speaker 1 I don't think he cuts that much. That's right.
35. That's why he likes it.

Speaker 1 Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it. You know, because when he was fighting at 85, he was weighing in at 85 and then fighting

Speaker 1 in the cage at 225, 226, which is crazy.

Speaker 3 I don't know how that guy was making 185. I don't know.
That's crazy because he's huge and he's so tall.

Speaker 1 Well, how about Dricus Duplicy? How the fuck is he 185? That guy's huge.

Speaker 3 He's a tank. He's huge also.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of these guys,

Speaker 1 but it's very deceptive because the general public thinks that's a 185-pound man, but he's not. Drickus is probably, when he gets into the cage, he's well into the 220s.
He's a big guy.

Speaker 3 I don't know in what wave he walks around, but he's a huge guy also. And Kamza, when he was fighting in 170,

Speaker 3 he was big also. He was almost killing himself.

Speaker 1 The craziest one

Speaker 1 was Anthony Rumble Johnson. Do you remember Anthony? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony, I ran into him once in between fights, and I said, how much do you weigh? He said, 230. Wow.

Speaker 1 He was fighting 170.

Speaker 3 He switched, how many weight classes? He started from 170. He went to light heavyweight and then he ended up fighting in the heavyweight division.

Speaker 1 He went to middleweight and didn't make weight. He missed weight.
and lost that fight and then he fought heavyweight outside the UFC and then came back and fought light heavyweight in the UFC.

Speaker 3 You know, something similar happened to me also. I started fighting in the Bantamweight division.

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Before the UFC, like in Cage Warriors, when I was fighting in the Cage Warriors, I actually missed the weight also when I was fighting for the belt.

Speaker 3 I was fighting at that time in the banterweight division. Then

Speaker 3 I kept fighting in the further weight, and now I'm in the lightweight. I hope I don't end up fighting in the wealthy weight.

Speaker 1 How old were you when you first started fighting

Speaker 3 an MMA?

Speaker 1 You're asking, or

Speaker 1 well, when did you first start martial arts?

Speaker 3 With four years old my my dad put me with my brother in Judo

Speaker 3 Then we went to Georgia we kept practicing with the

Speaker 3 Grecoromon wrestling and then we moved to Spain when I was 15 years old and completely by chance we find the gym and we started training the the MMA, the mixed martial arts.

Speaker 1 Totally by chance.

Speaker 3 Totally by chance.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 So were you a mixed martial arts fan at all i didn't know anything about the mixed martial arts i didn't know anything anything about the bj j the ground game any fucking thing wow so we went to to spain and we wanted to keep with the same discipline as we we were doing in georgia with the grey corner wrestling but they don't have the culture of of that sport

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 We were a little bit sad, you know, because we wanted that sport. My brother was really, really good on that.
So

Speaker 3 my mom was working and he saw a man with the cauliflow ears he went to she went to to him and she asked him like what you're doing because my kids want to to do wrestling do you train in in some gym or or something and he said no i'm doing the bjj

Speaker 3 Bring your kids and I'm gonna show you the gym. She came to home and my dad and my mom, they started to convince us.
Like, there's a gym, they are practicing like Jiu-Jitsu, MMA, all the sports.

Speaker 1 And I was like, but what the fuck is this?

Speaker 3 I don't know what's this. And my dad started to show me the videos of the Gracies.

Speaker 3 He told me, like, this is one of the best sports in the world right now. You are going to, guys, love it, this and that.
And at that day, we went to the gym, and I felt in love since the first second.

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Speaker 1 It's actually a great base to start out from. Starting with judo and then Greco-Roman wrestling and then going into jiu-jitsu it's really great because you already have an established grappling base.

Speaker 3 It's great of course.

Speaker 3 My recommendation for everyone is if you want to have a career in MMA, you should start with wrestling because for me personally, because this is my personal experience, that it's much easier to learn in the future the boxing than start with boxing and learn the wrestling.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 3 For me, yes, I think so. And I saw that in many people.

Speaker 1 But how old were you when you first started boxing?

Speaker 3 17 years old.

Speaker 1 That's fairly old. Like, when you think about how high level your striking is.
Of course, it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But when I started, I was like, okay, I'm very good with the wrestling. I I can take people down.
I can control them. I have a great ground game.
But what if I go to the highest competition and

Speaker 3 I find some adversities? I have to be able to fight in the striking also. So I have to develop my game in the striking.
And I start

Speaker 3 from that. And I started with my brother.
We were like the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to leave it. So we were studying every day, all day, like so obsessed.

Speaker 3 We were watching all the videos of Julio Cesarchave, of Carnelo, all that, practicing all the techniques and then

Speaker 3 putting in in interaction, the sparrings and all that. And I was like, finding my style

Speaker 3 that I really like to do.

Speaker 1 Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts.

Speaker 1 So like you are the first champion from Spain in the UFC. So it's very interesting that you got in there as a a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet.

Speaker 3 So I was the first guy to get into the top 15, the top 10, the top 5, and then the world champion.

Speaker 3 We had a guy in Spain who fought in the UFC. I don't know if you remember him, Enrique Wasabi.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 He did the Ultimate Fighter.

Speaker 3 Then we have another guy also, Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job also.
But before that, we didn't have anyone in the USEA.

Speaker 1 So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain? Yeah. There was amateur MMA?

Speaker 3 I made three fights in amateur.

Speaker 3 And then I started with a professional game. I did four fights in Spain.

Speaker 3 And at some point, it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European territory to get a fight. Yeah, and everything started from that.

Speaker 1 But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally,

Speaker 1 well, there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite high-level competition. But it seems like that's not the case with your gym.

Speaker 3 No, it wasn't.

Speaker 3 So I don't know. I don't know what was the reason, to be honest, to come this far.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Well, that's always the question with champions. Like, are champions born or are they bred?

Speaker 1 Because there's gyms that develop, like Marvin Hagler came out of the Petronelli Brothers gym in Brockton, Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 They're not known for world championship fighters, but Marvin Hagler is one of the greatest of all time. It's like there was something inside of him that made him excel.

Speaker 3 The same thing. There was something inside me that

Speaker 3 made me the person who I am today.

Speaker 1 Did you know when you first started training, when you first started doing MMA, that you were going to fight professionally?

Speaker 3 Yeah, since the first day. So my mindset always was the same, exactly the same as I have right now.
I'm like, if someone did it,

Speaker 3 I also can do it. And if no one did it, I can be the first one to do it.

Speaker 3 This is the mindset I always had. It's like,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 3 I think that the champion

Speaker 3 they are not born. They are made also because you can burn in an

Speaker 3 extraordinary situation, but you can end up

Speaker 3 so bad, you know, and the opposite also. You can burn in a, I don't know, crazy situation and end up in a paradise.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's such an interesting thing because all champions are not the same type of person either. You know, you've got guys like Sugar Sean O'Malley, who's silly and smokes weed and has crazy hair.

Speaker 1 And then you've got guys like Alex Pereira who are very stoic, you know, very serious.

Speaker 1 Everyone's different.

Speaker 3 He's very serious. I met him in Sydney.
I went with my bride because he made his UFC debut.

Speaker 3 And yeah, he was kind of quiet.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's intense. Yeah.

Speaker 3 He's so serious.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's intense. I remember watching him fight for the first time in glory in kickboxing.
And I was like, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 Watch the way he chaos people. I was like, this guy is different.

Speaker 3 Huge.

Speaker 1 Great.

Speaker 1 Crazy power. His power is just ridiculous.
I mean, like, hit the guys with a fight.

Speaker 3 Who do you love watching fight?

Speaker 1 I love watching you fight. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm a giant fan.

Speaker 1 I like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by the game in all different styles.
I mean, I like watching all the champions. I mean, I love watching Murab fight.
Wow. He's a fucking animal.

Speaker 3 He's the machine.

Speaker 1 I love him. He's an animal.

Speaker 1 I mean, I just don't understand that cardio. His cardio is fucking crazy.
It's like superhuman cardio.

Speaker 3 And I'm going to tell you something about Murab that surprised me. That maybe you see him in the mat,

Speaker 3 and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room, but I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon.

Speaker 3 Wow, that man is a fucking machine.

Speaker 1 He's a fucking machine.

Speaker 3 Right now, you ask me who I love to

Speaker 3 watch fight, that's Murab. I would pay, take my money.
When he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now, at this point, I'm like, bro, take my money.

Speaker 1 Bro, I love Umar too.

Speaker 1 Umar, you know that fight was incredible that was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful so high level and you know to see him make Umar start to wilt to see Umar like you see the wobble when guys start getting fatigued you see this like a little bit of like loose movement in the way you know you see that Mirab had none zero just shooting like like he was in the first round in the fifth round because this is what I exactly think that happens to Umar because you see

Speaker 3 Mirab from outside like you are sitting and you are seeing him training or fighting and you're like, he's not going to be able to take me down. He's not going to be able to do that to me.

Speaker 3 And then you get inside that octangoo with him and everything changes.

Speaker 3 It's like you have a machine in front of you who has like non-stop.

Speaker 1 Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title. Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday.
Murab wasn't home. He was out running.
Yeah. He won the title on Saturday.

Speaker 1 Daniel went to his house house on Sunday. Murab's out running.

Speaker 3 Wow, he's crazy.

Speaker 3 He came to Spain also to help me once when I had the training camp. I was supposed to fight with Moso.

Speaker 1 He came to help me.

Speaker 3 Crazy.

Speaker 3 The same exact team. We were finishing the training.
He was going for a run.

Speaker 3 He was going actually to his house running.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's no shortcuts.

Speaker 3 No, there's no shortcuts. No shortcuts.

Speaker 1 No shortcuts. But, you know, like, to answer your question,

Speaker 1 I'm fascinated by all the different styles. You You know, I like watching everybody fight.
You know, I love Volkanovsky. You know, I love watching him fight this past weekend.

Speaker 3 He's so great.

Speaker 3 I was so happy for him this Saturday because he really

Speaker 3 deserved to get that title back.

Speaker 1 Does it bother you to see someone win your title?

Speaker 3 No, not that bother. You're good?

Speaker 1 I'm good. You're like, I'm good.

Speaker 3 I'm good. Happy for him.

Speaker 1 You established, you won, you defended.

Speaker 3 I won, I defended. Right now I have a completely different challenge in front of me.
I wish him nothing but the best. And to everyone, like, I wish the best wins all the time.
That's great. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's great. I don't care.
What about Patty Pimblet, though?

Speaker 3 He did a great job.

Speaker 1 He did a great job.

Speaker 3 He did what he had to do. He did.
But for me, it's like,

Speaker 3 I'm going to be completely honest with you. For me, Chandler, he never was a

Speaker 3 extraordinary fighter. He was like an average level of fighter.

Speaker 3 Who did he beat like in the UFC?

Speaker 1 Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson.

Speaker 3 Dan Hooker.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dan Hooker is a good fighter. He just caught.
Well, Dan Hooker had that war with Dustin Poirier. And Dustin Poirier is a very good fighter.

Speaker 3 How many loses he had?

Speaker 1 He's got a few losses.

Speaker 1 He's a good fighter.

Speaker 3 He's a very entertaining fighter. For the fans.

Speaker 1 He's a wild dog. Yeah.

Speaker 3 He's a dog.

Speaker 3 He goes inside that octagon and he fights.

Speaker 3 But yeah.

Speaker 1 I think he's on a resurgence. I I think, you know, he had a skid for a while and now he's rebuilding himself and he's on a resurgence.
He's smiling. Look at you.
Motherfucker.

Speaker 3 So he beat Dan Hooger and Tony Ferguson when he was like almost four years old.

Speaker 1 I think honestly, we got Michael Chandler after his prime.

Speaker 1 If you go watch Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez in Bellator, those were fucking crazy fights. Crazy fights.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but at the end of the day, you see wars. It's a very competitive fight.
Yes. You see almost a bar fight.

Speaker 3 You see two guys in the middle of the octagon exchanging punches, but you don't see technique. You don't see skills.

Speaker 3 You see a great fight because as a fans, it's very entertaining to watch fights like that. But if you really...

Speaker 3 think about it it's like you don't see skills in that fight you don't see someone trying to take you down control you some great submissions great transitions i don't know striking you you you see a guy that he's like looking for a combination.

Speaker 3 He's looking for his moment, creating a spaces.

Speaker 3 You don't see like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1 So it's not as tactical or technical. Exactly.
It's just wild dogs.

Speaker 1 It's just wild dogs. I mean, that's why Michael Chandler is so popular because he fights like a wild dog.
Exactly. And that's cool.

Speaker 3 Yeah. That's cool.
You need a guy also like him.

Speaker 1 But I would never recommend my friend to fight like that.

Speaker 3 Exactly. Yeah.
I never would recommend to someone, watch this guy and learn something. Right.

Speaker 1 Right. Right.
Learn. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like he's so entertaining, but sometimes it's best to not be as entertaining and just to be better.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and shut people down.

Speaker 3 At the same time, you don't have to be Bilal.

Speaker 1 Right. I see what you're saying.
But Bilal, I think, gets too much bad rap. Like, Bilal, when he beat up Sean Brady, that was very entertaining.
And Sean Brady's very good.

Speaker 1 You know, I think Bilal just does what it takes to win. And when you're in a division.

Speaker 3 And also, like, he didn't really have a background in wrestling at the level that a lot of these guys did he had to develop that over time yeah but you there are two type of champions for me like there are champions who prepare themselves to win and there are the other ones who prepare themselves to dominate i prepare myself not to win because i know that i'm gonna win i'm i want to win in fashion i want to dominate i want more people i want people to be entertained i want people to be like well i'm happy that i spent the money this saturday night going watch this guy.

Speaker 3 This is what I want.

Speaker 1 Yeah, someone was talking about that recently on Instagram. I don't remember who the coach was, but he was talking about levels of athletes.

Speaker 1 That there's people that train to compete, there's people that train to win, and then there's people that train to dominate, to be the greatest of all time.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And there's a different mindset. There's a never satisfied, always improving mindset that the great champions have.

Speaker 3 All the time. I want the people people to be entertained all the time.
Like

Speaker 3 when actually I was,

Speaker 3 I started with the MMA, I was like recording myself all the sparrings.

Speaker 3 And after that, I was re-watching my sparring. I was like, will I pay my money to watch this?

Speaker 3 What do I have to change in my game to be more entertained?

Speaker 3 And this is how I was like looking at myself all the time.

Speaker 1 I was very critical

Speaker 3 myself. And this is how I develop and develop and develop.
And all the time I go inside the octagon, I don't go there just to win. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 I want everyone to be like, wow, what he just did,

Speaker 3 how he did it. He was the greatest of all time, and he made it, made him look easy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 This is what I want. I want to change the game.
You know, the people to... I want you to say your friend, watch this guy and learn something.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, mission accomplished so far, you're right.
So far, so good. And now a new journey into the lightweight division.
You know, I don't understand why they won't just book you in Islam.

Speaker 1 There's many times that I wish I was running the UFC, I would change so many different things. That would be one of the first things I would change.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, book that fight, book that fight right away.

Speaker 3 You would do some fights also in Mars, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 I would probably. Do you all go with the starship?

Speaker 1 I got some wacky ideas. I don't even think they should fight in a cage.
Yeah? Yeah, I think the cage is an unnecessary

Speaker 1 I think it's an unnecessary

Speaker 1 element in fighting. Like to push someone against something or to be able to get up from something.
I don't think it's necessary.

Speaker 1 I think it should be in like a basketball court. Like a basketball court that's matted up.
Have a big space.

Speaker 1 Have a warning track where you can't if you go outside the warning track too many times, you you could lose points.

Speaker 1 Okay, and So when someone takes you down you have to actually get up I also think at the end of a round like say if you got a guy mounted at the end of the round You start the next round mounted on him.

Speaker 3 Of course.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think

Speaker 1 because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up? He never got up never got up you have to earn a get up you have to stand up by yourself.

Speaker 3 I love it. I never thought about that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, actually no no stand-ups ever ever no stand-ups unless someone commits a foul Like, if someone commits a foul and you want to stand them up and take a point away, that's fine.

Speaker 1 But if the guy's in the bottom and he commits a foul, like if a guy's in the bottom and he gouges someone's eyes on purpose, take a point away, put him right back in the same spot.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 1 Because otherwise, like, say if you're fighting a guy like Alex Pereira, who's never taking anybody down. He's just going to strike with you, right?

Speaker 1 Why would you let him back up again and have the advantage of him standing up again?

Speaker 1 The beginning of the round, he starts standing up again. Now you've got to take him down again.

Speaker 3 But also,

Speaker 1 you don't think that it's it's a part of the show it is also a part of the show but i don't give a fuck about that yeah i'm a fan i mean i'm a hardcore fan i'm a purist i think it should be about fighting about elite fighting and elite fighting is you got to get up like if a wrestler takes you down and he just does this to you and it's not entertaining but if he can do that to you that's tough shit that's what he did you would change also the time range like oh you would leave a three round five minutes with one minute rest the good thing about five minute rounds the good thing about five minute rounds is it's sustainable and guys can fight at a high pace if you had like just

Speaker 1 one 15 minute round guys would be exhausted and the end of it would be sloppy it wouldn't be the same the pace would be much slower it wouldn't be as good so i think there's nothing wrong with rounds but i think it's one fight it's not five fights so why does he stand up at the end of every round i think if a guy takes you down and he's got you mounted with like trapped an arm and he's punching your ribs trying to secure an arm triangle, why would you?

Speaker 1 Why does he get to stand up again?

Speaker 1 It doesn't make any sense. That's true.

Speaker 1 Especially if he's a striker and you wasted all that energy to get him to the ground and you got so close to cinching up a submission and then all of a sudden he's back on his feet again.

Speaker 1 Cling, cling, you have to stand up. And he didn't even earn it.

Speaker 1 Start him right back down there. No cage, no stand-ups.
No stand-ups ever. If everybody booze, tough shit.
Go watch baseball.

Speaker 1 Go watch something something else.

Speaker 3 You wouldn't like to see at some point the world championships in mixed martial arts.

Speaker 3 Like, for example, let's say the seven best fighters from the United States and every weight class against seven ba best fighters from, I don't know, from China or from Russia.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would love that.

Speaker 3 The best flyweights against the best flyweight from the United States.

Speaker 3 And you do that and you have seven fights because you have seven weight divisions. And if you win four weight divisions, that country won.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That will be fun also.

Speaker 1 That would be great. That's a great idea.
I love that idea. Yeah, I think that that idea sounds really good.
And also,

Speaker 1 there is a bit of an issue, right, with the UFC being the premier organization for martial arts. The UFC is like, if you're not a champion in the UFC, no one thinks of you as a world champion.

Speaker 1 Like you're a world champion.

Speaker 1 World champion.

Speaker 1 Someone can fight in the PFL and they can say, oh, it's it's the pfl world champion everybody's like right yeah come on come on because that's great fighters but at the end of the day you know that you have all the best fighters right best collection of fighters in the ufc yes but I watch one FC and I watch some of those fucking animals that they have over there and I'm like, Jesus Christ, these guys are good, man.

Speaker 1 Some of these guys are good. And, you know, they're calling them one FC world champions.
I'm like,

Speaker 1 I'd like to see them. I'd like to see them because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent.
And we've seen that before.

Speaker 1 Like some guys look like destroyers, and then they get in the UFC against guys who are just a little bit more technical, a little smarter, and they get pieced up.

Speaker 3 What happens is that I think that in one championship,

Speaker 3 most of the time you used to fight with strikers. In the UFC, you don't know who you're going to face next.
Maybe he's a wrestler.

Speaker 3 Maybe you're going to fight Damian Maya who wants to fight you on the ground. Maybe you fight Alex Pereira.
You don't fucking know.

Speaker 3 So you have to be good everywhere and you have to be prepared for everything. In one championship, maybe you are good at striking and you can be a world champion.

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe. I mean, there are some good grapplers over there.
But my point is, I really wish there was

Speaker 1 no organizations.

Speaker 1 I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing.
I don't.

Speaker 1 Look, I love the UFC. I've been working for the UFC forever.
And my loyalty is to the UFC. But I wish there was just only fighting.

Speaker 1 You know, no organizations, just like boxing is. And boxing.
But the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys because they all have different promoters. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And if they all have the same promoter, they all get fucked when it comes to negotiation, right? If they're all the same promoter and the same managers.

Speaker 3 You know something about soccer? No.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know a little bit about that.

Speaker 3 How they do, like, the Champions League.

Speaker 3 They have, like, for example, let's say the Real Madrid. They have a team.
That's why I would, what I would do is is like I would create a team against another team. For example, I have Real Madrid.

Speaker 3 I sign like the best seven fighters in the world, whoever I want in different way classes. And you have, for example, Barcelona.
You sign the seven best fighters in the world, around the world.

Speaker 3 You train them in one place. You do like all the

Speaker 3 strategy. And we meet each other.
We do a competition like a Champions League. And we do like the whole year calendar.
And the best wins.

Speaker 3 At the end of we do like the finals and we give them the space to recover.

Speaker 3 We create like a competition between teams, not that individual

Speaker 3 people. You know what I mean? Yes.
So I would do something like that.

Speaker 1 That's a great idea, but the problem is I think

Speaker 1 guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick. That's right.

Speaker 3 And in soccer, you have guys that in your position, you always have two or three guys.

Speaker 3 That if you are injured, you have another guy that can change you, switch you. You know, between the rounds even.

Speaker 3 In soccer, sometimes it happens. Someone gets injured in

Speaker 3 Estadio, stadium, and they can switch them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. But I mean, at the end of the day, like, imagine, say, if you get scheduled to fight Islam and

Speaker 1 Islam gets injured and Armand Sarukian takes his place or something like that.

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Speaker 3 Again, you are like focused on

Speaker 3 individuals. You are not focused on teams.

Speaker 3 Because no one is going to care who is going to fight from the flyweight division, who is going to be your representative from the flyweight division or from the lightweight division. I'm like...

Speaker 3 Maybe I bring you Islam that

Speaker 3 I have him in my team, or also I could have have Charles Oluela in the same team, or maybe I bring Charles Oluela because I think that against your team, the guy you have in the lightweight division, Charles does it better.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right. They do that with grappling, like Quintet.
They do that. They have like grappling teams.
Yeah, I mean, that would be interesting.

Speaker 1 I just, there's, there's certain fighters, like, I was... My main regret in MMA that we never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC when he was in his prime.
That's true.

Speaker 1 If I could have one thing, one fight in their prime, Fedor Kane Velasquez. Oh, that would be

Speaker 1 a great fight. Oh, my God.
Great fight. In their prime.
That would have been incredible. Incredible.

Speaker 3 Actually, Kane was an amazing fighter.

Speaker 1 Bro, that guy had a gas tank that was superhuman.

Speaker 1 For a heavyweight, it didn't even make any sense. You would see guys just fall apart.
They would just wilt.

Speaker 3 Pure boxing style.

Speaker 1 Pure boxing style, great wrestling, incredible chin, and just indomitable will. Too tough for his own good, which is why he wound up like towards the end of his career.

Speaker 1 He was just his body had deteriorated so much. He had so many back injuries, neck injury, shoulder injury, knee injury.

Speaker 3 Actually, what's going on with him?

Speaker 3 He's in jail right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he got sentenced. He got sentenced to five years, and the judge said this was the least amount he could sentence him.
He didn't want to sentence him.

Speaker 3 What happened to him? Do you know that now? Yes.

Speaker 1 So, Kane's son was going to daycare, and there was a man who molested him at daycare. Kane found out about it, chased the man in his car, and shot at him.

Speaker 1 He tried to catch him in his car and shot at him. Kane gets arrested.
Kane stayed in jail. The guy gets arrested and he got out on bail.
I don't know what's happening with the guy.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he's been sentenced yet or what.

Speaker 1 But this guy molested his son multiple times. I don't know how many times.
But he did what every father would have done.

Speaker 1 If you're not a father, you do not understand the murderous rage you would have if some man molested your baby. You don't understand.

Speaker 1 You would see

Speaker 1 red in a way that no one can describe to you unless you're a parent. That fucking anger is...
I mean, if there's ever a plea for temporary insanity, That's that's the plea.

Speaker 1 If there's ever a person who could justifiably say, I was temporarily insane, it's a father that's chasing after someone, especially a man who molests your boy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Everybody understands it.
Everybody understands it. He should have never gone to jail.
He's not a threat to society. He's not a danger.
He shouldn't be in prison. No.

Speaker 1 And he already did three years. He was already in jail for three years.

Speaker 3 He has been a great example for so many upcoming guys, like for the new generation. Yes.
I don't know why guys like him have to end end up in the jail for something like that. Exactly.

Speaker 3 He didn't robber anyone. He didn't.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's horrific.
It's horrific. You know, I mean, I just don't understand it.
It's, um,

Speaker 1 I mean, the judge's hands were tied. He had to make a sentence.
And this is the, I think, the minimum amount. They were trying to give him 30 years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for attempted murder because he was just shooting at this guy. And obviously, when you're driving and shooting, you could miss him and kill a bystander.

Speaker 1 It's very dangerous. But

Speaker 1 also,

Speaker 1 the guy was in a murderous rage for a good reason. For a good reason.
Of course. And if he killed that guy, the world would be better off.
That's my feeling. That's my feeling.
That's true.

Speaker 3 That's also true.

Speaker 1 A guy like that walking around and molest children should be dead.

Speaker 1 That's just my feeling. All this thought of, I mean, there's a bunch of people on the left here in the United States that...

Speaker 1 They have this crazy way of looking at pedophiles. They call them minor attracted persons.

Speaker 1 They want to make it a protected class and say it's you know it's like someone being attracted to someone of the opposite sex or someone being attracted to someone of the same sex like no it's not no it's not you're victimizing children the most vulnerable and protected people that we have of course you can't you can't even talk to the kids about something like that you know what i mean yeah about like i i heard so many crazy things about that topic that let's

Speaker 1 leave it right let's let's leave it right there we'll just get in trouble

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, kill them all. That's how I feel.
Kill them all. Anybody who wants to do that to children, there's no reason for them to exist.

Speaker 1 I mean, for yeah. You're just going to ruin lives.
And not just their lives, but you're going to ruin all the people whose lives they ruined because they're all fucked up now. You know,

Speaker 1 you kill so much potential from a human being to do that to a baby. It's just insane.
Wow. It's just fucking insane.
So that's unfortunately the story with Kane right now.

Speaker 1 And you know, he was out for a while. Once they let him out, he was coaching at aka.
And, you know, he's an amazing coach.

Speaker 3 We hope that

Speaker 3 they're going to think it again, and they're going to give him the freedom he deserves.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I hope Trump pardons him. I mean, that's what I really hope.
I hope so. You know, make something happen with that.
Maybe that's possible. I mean, that might be the best option.

Speaker 1 But anyway, in his prime, Kane Velasquez versus Fedor. That's my biggest regret, a fight that we never got to see.
Because

Speaker 1 when Fedor was fighting in Pride, you know, and this is before the UFC was really huge, right? Because they were huge in Japan in like 2001, 2002. They were filling stadiums in Japan.

Speaker 1 When the UFC was just sort of emerging in the United States, it really hadn't hit its peak until 2005.

Speaker 3 And why do you think that they never bring him to the EFC?

Speaker 1 Well, they tried. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I got to be careful how I say this. So Fedor was controlled by some Russian people that were

Speaker 1 very

Speaker 1 rough men,

Speaker 1 as it were, you know,

Speaker 1 gangster type characters. And they had a bunch of negotiations with the UFC, but there were very unreasonable demands.
Like, they wanted... part of the promotion.

Speaker 1 They wanted to own a piece of everything. They wanted a lot.
Because they knew that with Fedora they had their golden ticket and they wanted to play it out as much as possible.

Speaker 1 And negotiations were very intense and very

Speaker 1 confrontational. They got bad where Dana had to up his security.

Speaker 1 It got pretty. Yeah, it got heavy.
Yeah. It was dangerous people.
These were dangerous people.

Speaker 1 It got. Yeah, I can tell you more off air.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Whoa, I didn't know that story.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you more off air. You should talk to Dana about it.
It got crazy. Wow.
They're rushing. That's why.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because I always thought, like, why they don't bring that guy to the UFC? Because it's going to be so fun for the fans.

Speaker 1 They wanted to co-promote. They wanted to be a part of the promotion.
They wanted more than they deserved. They didn't just want Fedor to get paid.
They wanted to get paid.

Speaker 1 They wanted to make a lot of money. And they wanted to get their hooks into the UFC.

Speaker 3 Gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Russian gangsters.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I get it. Crazy.

Speaker 1 How they rule

Speaker 1 everything.

Speaker 1 Pride was run by the Yakuza. You know, so it was Japanese gangsters and Russian gangsters.
They speak the same language. You know, they got along fine.

Speaker 1 But then when they came over to the UFC, the UFC was like, that's

Speaker 1 not the place.

Speaker 1 No, we'll give him a lot of money. We want him to fight in the UFC.
And it never took place, unfortunately. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 So crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So he's about to fight again.
Fedora's going to fight bare knuckle.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I heard something about that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think Connor's promotion.
I think it's Connor's promotion, that BKFD.

Speaker 3 Actually, do you think he's going to come back, Connor?

Speaker 1 If I had a bet? No. Yeah.
No. Why?

Speaker 1 Because he hasn't come back yet. And he could have.

Speaker 1 You know, if he really wanted to, he would have been back in the gym, had a fight scheduled, drug tested, clean, training, gone through a camp, had a fight.

Speaker 1 Like, he had a broken toe before the first fight with Chandler. I understand that.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Why should you fight on a broken toe, especially a guy who moves a lot like Connor? He relies on movement so much. Yeah, I get it.
So heal that toe up. What's that? That's two months.

Speaker 1 Broken toe is two months. Yeah.
And so then you're back in camp. And then you reschedule a fight and then you fight again.
But he didn't.

Speaker 1 And also partying, constant partying, all these law, legal problems that he has, you know,

Speaker 1 scooting around on yachts and, you know, driving around a Lamborghini he's he's wealthy he's done maybe I mean what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40 and his body just doesn't have it anymore you know so right now he actually has a great opponent Mike Chandler he could fight right right they could fight right now yeah they could fight because if they put him against Potty, I think Patty beats him easy now.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 a lot of years off, right? A lot of years off.

Speaker 1 You know, on the feet, Connor's a motherfucker.

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 on the feet, he's a motherfucker. I know that.
He can knock out like everyone.

Speaker 1 If he's still the same guy. Yeah.
But the thing is, he's 36 now, you know. And if he's natural, also,

Speaker 1 reality.

Speaker 1 Okay. When he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right? Because he's got to do something to heal his leg quicker.
So what is he going to do? Well, you're going to take steroids.

Speaker 1 So if you're going to take steroids and you're already 34-ish,

Speaker 1 your endocrine system gets fucked up by taking steroids where your body stops producing testosterone.

Speaker 1 So I've had it explained to me by scientists before and essentially say if you take steroids for six months, you need at least six months before your body starts producing testosterone at a normal level again.

Speaker 1 Some people think it's twice as long. So that would be a year.
a year of no steroids before your body regains its natural testosterone levels. If it does, depending, if it does.

Speaker 3 You think that if someone puts steroids in his body,

Speaker 3 he never

Speaker 3 comes back as a

Speaker 3 as

Speaker 3 his normal body?

Speaker 1 Vitor Belfort is the best example of this, right? He's the best guy that we could use as an example.

Speaker 3 But he took a bunch of steroids. He just

Speaker 1 took

Speaker 1 Luke Rockhold said when he was weighing in, when he fought him, he said, this guy's got muscles on his fucking teeth. Yeah.
On his mouth.

Speaker 3 Exactly, bro.

Speaker 1 But if you go back to Vitor when he fought Anderson Silva, before they had testosterone use exemptions, he didn't look like that at all.

Speaker 3 No. He looked old, actually.
He looked like his body was relaxed.

Speaker 1 Because Vitor, yeah. So this is the, look at the difference.
Before you saw it and after you saw it. I mean, that is a crazy example.

Speaker 1 So when he fought Chris Wideman, his body looked soft and like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same.
And that was just a couple of years after the test.

Speaker 1 They fucked up with the testosterone use exemption because what they did was they would test guys. And if you're low on testosterone, oh, you can have a testosterone use exemption.

Speaker 1 But you could get low on testosterone in a night if you wanted to. All you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night.

Speaker 1 And your body's natural levels of testosterone would be low.

Speaker 1 So you could go get drug, you who has normal, healthy levels of testosterone, you could wreck your body on purpose, then go get drug tested, and they say, Oh, Ilya, you have low testosterone.

Speaker 1 I'm gonna prescribe to you testosterone exemption. And so, then you go and take testosterone, you become a fucking animal,

Speaker 1 and you're healthy, you don't need it. So, there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it.

Speaker 3 So, you think that at this point there are guys in the USC that are taking like testosterone

Speaker 3 steroids?

Speaker 1 Let's say I would imagine there's for sure someone doing something they're not supposed to do. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Wow. I don't know.
Because at this point, I feel that they are so strict.

Speaker 1 They are. They are so strict.
There's a lot of guys that do their camps in faraway lands.

Speaker 1 And I think that, like, people always used to joke around about Dagestan. You know, like, try getting a USADA guy into Dagestan.

Speaker 1 The moment he lands.

Speaker 1 They did

Speaker 3 a drug test in Dagestan.

Speaker 3 They test Khabib, for example, in Dagestan? No.

Speaker 1 I'm sure. I'm sure they must have.
And what if someone lands from an issue where some guys from USADA and Khabib's camp, they had like... They had some issue.
Some issue.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they had some. I remember something like that.
If you go over there,

Speaker 1 and you want to get out, you got to be careful. Nah, you get that.

Speaker 1 But I would imagine that if you want to avoid being tested all the time, like say, like if you're in America and you know, you live in Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all the time.

Speaker 1 They'll test you a bunch, you know? Yeah. There's some people that have been tested a bunch.
They get tested a lot. And then some people that don't get tested as much.

Speaker 1 And if you're going to go and do your camp in Thailand or you're going to go you do your your camp in Dagestan or it's a lot more difficult to get to you to test you randomly.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but they can anyway. They can't.
You can trust on on if they come or not.

Speaker 1 But there's short acting stuff there's like um when uh alex rodriguez

Speaker 1 is that is on a rod right yeah when he was fighting or excuse me when he was playing baseball rather they were taking gummies testosterone gummies okay and the testosterone literally only lasts for a few hours and it's out of your system wow yeah I never heard that yeah there's certain stuff that you can take like EPO that's very short lasting very difficult to test very short lasting and And in my case, I don't like that because I wouldn't feel good with myself.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 3 I'm going to feel like I'm cheating. Right.
I don't deserve the win because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater.

Speaker 3 I can't have that heart. That thought about myself.
All the time when I walk inside the octagon, I feel that I didn't cheat

Speaker 3 and I deserve the win. And that's why I'm going to win.

Speaker 1 Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are so impressive because BJ Penn was clean when everybody was cheating.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because back then it was really difficult to test. All they tested was at the weigh-ins.
So at the weigh-ins, that's like an intelligence test.

Speaker 1 Like if you cheat and take steroids intelligently, by the time you get to the weigh-ins, you're going to be clean. If you do it with a doctor,

Speaker 1 I know camps, and I want to say the names, but they had scientists working for the camps.

Speaker 1 And the scientists, these doctors, would study guys' blood work and make sure that they were clean by the time they got into camp or by the time they got into the weigh-ins.

Speaker 1 So when they were on the scale, they still had all the benefits of steroids, but they had no steroids in their system and their body hadn't started to deteriorate yet from the lack of steroids.

Speaker 3 I know some camps also that they use steroids, yeah, for sure. But yeah, for me,

Speaker 3 you can have all the muscles in the world, but if you are not mentally strong, because that's a so specific moment when you are in the backstage, you need

Speaker 3 your mind so badly. You need it more than your body sometimes.

Speaker 3 Because as I told you, you can have all the muscles in the world, but you need this episode.

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Speaker 3 This muscle as strong as possible, you know?

Speaker 1 And if you know you cheated,

Speaker 1 you know you're cheating.

Speaker 3 That you are not in what you in reality are saying that you are.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right. That's a tough one.

Speaker 3 I don't want to see myself in that situation ever.

Speaker 1 That's a champion's mindset. Yeah.
Yeah, that's a real champion's mindset. Some guys, they just want to do anything to win.
They want to do anything to win.

Speaker 1 And if they have to cheat to win, they'll cheat.

Speaker 1 And they'll justify it by saying everybody cheats.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I I'm a God-believer

Speaker 3 and and m my mindset is like

Speaker 3 of course I want to win. I prepare myself to win.

Speaker 3 But if he destroys my plans, it's because maybe my plans could destroy me. So I don't want to have anything

Speaker 3 because I want to have it. If he decides it, if God decides to give it to me, I accept it.
I will do everything to get it because I desire it from all my heart.

Speaker 3 And if he says that if I desire it, I have the faith, I will get it.

Speaker 1 And the reality is, if you give everything you have and you lose, you win a lesson and you realize you're not at the level that you need to be.

Speaker 3 There's never a lose.

Speaker 1 Or you win or you learn.

Speaker 3 And learning is also a winning.

Speaker 1 Right. Where did you develop your mindset? Have you got any mental coaching? Did you read books on psychology?

Speaker 3 I read a lot of books. I try to read at least 30 minutes a day, but it's every day.
Every day. What you do and

Speaker 3 your daily habits, it

Speaker 3 what makes the difference, right? Because we can decide our future, but we can decide our habits and our habits decide our future.

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah. So like what kind of stuff do you read?

Speaker 3 I read more like

Speaker 3 I read a lot of books. I love reading books

Speaker 3 of self-self-development books.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 3 how can I tell you?

Speaker 3 Yeah, this is the most of the books I read, self-development books I I read uh by biographies of of the people that I like for example Donald Trump Warren Buffett I read that kind of people businessmen yeah I try to yeah yeah why do you read businessmen's biographies

Speaker 3 because uh at the end of the day right now I'm in sports but at some point I'm gonna retire and I'm gonna m make a I have to make a living from from something right because I'm I'm not gonna be fighting my whole whole life and I don't want it even.

Speaker 3 So, yeah,

Speaker 3 I want to prepare myself. So, if you want to have an extraordinary life, you have to be an extraordinary person, right?

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 And I'm trying to become an extraordinary person in all walks of life, in all walks of life.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so do you have an idea of when you want to retire?

Speaker 3 How old do you know? Till I enjoy 28. 28.
28. Till I enjoy.
I don't know how many fights. Maybe

Speaker 3 till 32, 34.

Speaker 1 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 3 I don't know. Till I enjoy.
Right now I'm enjoying. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.

Speaker 1 So you'll take that road when it comes. What do you mean?

Speaker 1 When that happens, when you no longer enjoy, then you will go on a different path.

Speaker 1 Then you will retire.

Speaker 3 I don't know. Right now I want to become a lightweight world champion.
I want to hold that bell too.

Speaker 3 So I don't know what's what's gonna happen then if I'm gonna keep motivated

Speaker 3 it's kind of difficult this is a fight game five game is so hard so hard because you have to go in and take someone's head off and you can't you can't be that soft guy you know what I mean like that kind guy you have to be you gotta have that testosterone app you gotta be vicious exactly yeah you gotta be technical you gotta be smart but you also have to be vicious And at the same time, everyone from my family is involved in my career.

Speaker 3 You know, at some point, maybe I will end up

Speaker 3 doing different things, maybe some businesses. Right now, I'm doing different things, and I'm enjoying it also.

Speaker 1 So, you're doing different things outside of fighting?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I have a promotion in Spain right now. Oh, an MMA promotion?

Speaker 3 MMA promotion. What's it called?

Speaker 1 Woah.

Speaker 1 Woah.

Speaker 3 And the goal with woe is to, because as you mentioned, when you say woe, how you spelling that?

Speaker 1 Way of the warrior. Oh, wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 So from Spain to get to the UFC before was so difficult.

Speaker 3 I had to do so many crazy things to get to the UFC. But right now, we create woe.

Speaker 3 And actually, we are in the UFC fight pass. Everyone can get in that promotion fight.
If you have the skills, if you are ready, someone's going to see you and they're going to sign you in the UFC.

Speaker 1 The promoter's life is a hard life. That's a hard job.
Yeah, you think so?

Speaker 3 It's very entertaining, to be honest.

Speaker 1 When I talked to Dana, at least promoting for the UFC, like I was talking to him this weekend, and he was telling me all the issues that they're having and with different fights.

Speaker 1 I was asking him some questions. Like, what are you doing with this? What are you doing with that? And he starts telling me, oh, this guy wants that, and this guy wants to do that.

Speaker 3 Does he tell you something about me?

Speaker 1 Maybe. Maybe a little bit.

Speaker 1 If he did, I can't tell you. I did ask who you're going to fight, and they say, we're working on things.
But he was actually specifically talking about what happens if Bilal wins. You know, because

Speaker 1 Islam and Bilal have been, they've been talking about Islam fighting Bilal.

Speaker 3 That's going to happen.

Speaker 1 I would like that to happen if Bilal wins. But that's an if.
Jack De La Matalena is a bad motherfucker. He's good, man.

Speaker 3 That guy's good. Even if he wins, they're going to make that fight happen.

Speaker 3 Against Islam. You think so?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, if Jack De La Matalena wins, then Jack is the new Welterweight champion.
And, you know, maybe he fights Islam. That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 The problem with Islam fighting Bilal is that they train together. And I think they had kind of settled.
How many guys

Speaker 3 we see

Speaker 3 fighting between each other that they used to train before? Oh, I agree.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think they should fight. Yeah, they should fight.
I definitely think they should fight. I think Khabib doesn't like that idea.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's how I feel. But it's not just that.
I mean, Jaina's always putting out a million fires. I mean, think about it.
They have 500 fighters

Speaker 1 in the roster, at least. And, you know, there's all these things that are happening.
And like, like the Armand Surukian thing. Like, his back hurts the day of the fight.

Speaker 1 He's got to pull out. Like, this is fucking crazy.
This is.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Like, imagine that. You have this whole promotion based around this elite fighter who fought Islam in his first fight, short notice.

Speaker 1 They go to a very close decision, a very close fight. Arman's gotten a lot better.
Islam's gotten a lot better. Then they're going to fight again, and then the day of, he hurts his back.

Speaker 1 Crazy. It happens, yeah.
Very crazy.

Speaker 3 But if you will be in the Dana's place,

Speaker 3 who would be my next opponent?

Speaker 1 Islam. 100%.

Speaker 1 100%. I wish they.
I tried to tell them that this weekend.

Speaker 3 That would be a great fight.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the fight to make.

Speaker 1 Because you have a world champion versus a world champion. Like if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class, it's you.
It's simple. It's simple.

Speaker 1 You knocked out Max Holloway. I mean, it's simple.
You knocked out Alexander Volkanovsky, one of the greatest of all time. It's simple.
That's a no-brainer. That's the fight.

Speaker 1 You know, he doesn't want to fight 45 anymore. He wants to fight 55.
World title swap. And nobody would argue with that.
That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Hopefully they make those fights happen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, hopefully. I don't have any say.
Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage. I'd get

Speaker 1 rid of standing.

Speaker 1 I'd fuck everything up for them. I would make it less marketable.
Probably. I would.

Speaker 3 Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be a good one.

Speaker 1 That's a great fight, too. That's a great fight, too.
There's a lot of guys in that division.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds. Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155?

Speaker 3 I would like like to fight with Islam, that's for sure.

Speaker 3 I would like to fight him.

Speaker 1 But if they don't give you that fight, if they give you like a number one contender fight, when would you like to fight next?

Speaker 3 I wouldn't fight for a number one contender fight.

Speaker 1 You only want to fight for the title? Yeah, of course. Really? Okay.

Speaker 3 Of course.

Speaker 1 I understand. That makes sense to me.
Look, also, it's the most marketable fight. Everybody else is lost to him.

Speaker 3 I don't care if Islam decides that he doesn't want to fight me. I don't care.
I say until you're going to have to fight me. Okay,

Speaker 3 you say that you are the world champion, you're gonna keep dominating the division, all that. I'm here, you

Speaker 3 can't keep avoiding me all the time.

Speaker 1 So, you would just sit on the sidelines rather than fight someone else?

Speaker 3 I don't think that they're gonna do that. I don't think they would put me on a sideline because they asked me to.
I would care the belt because I told them that I wouldn't fight in 145 again,

Speaker 3 but I get the promise that I would fight for the Tyler

Speaker 3 in my next fight.

Speaker 3 So, how much time you will stop me

Speaker 3 from the fighting?

Speaker 1 So, they did give you a promise that your next, when you vacated the belt, that your next fight would be a good thing.

Speaker 3 If they give that chance to everyone, why not to me? They gave it to Henry Sejuda, they gave it to Conor McGregor, they gave it to George A. Pierre, they gave it to John, they gave it to everyone.

Speaker 3 And I proved that I deserve that shot. As you said, I knock out

Speaker 1 two of the all-time greats.

Speaker 3 Two of the all-time greats.

Speaker 3 To the greats, Walk,

Speaker 3 who was like dominating everyone in 145 division, and Max Holloway.

Speaker 3 Great fighters, both of them.

Speaker 1 Especially after Max Holloway's victory over Justin Gaiti, which is like the greatest victory of his career. Yeah.
To knock him out after that.

Speaker 3 And no one did it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I agree.
I mean, I'd say world title fight, but I don't get to make the rules.

Speaker 3 And the last fight he had was in 155 against Justin Gaitchie, who also fought for the title. Yep.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger at 155 other than you.

Speaker 1 If you look at it, like he's kind of cleaned out the division. There's no real

Speaker 1 one else. I mean, Armand's got to build himself back up.
Yeah. He's not going to get a title shot.

Speaker 3 I would put Justin Gagey against Patty Pimblet.

Speaker 3 me against Islam.

Speaker 3 Once I pass him, I get the title. And

Speaker 3 you put me against Patty because I think that he's going to be able to.

Speaker 1 Do you think Patty's going to beat Justin Gage? Easy. Wow.
Really easy. Yeah, easy.
Really easy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. That's a crazy thing to say because Justin Gage is a fucking animal.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple. And Patty knows how to.

Speaker 1 But he's a Division I wrestler. He knows how to grapple.
You don't think he knows how to grapple. He just chooses not to.
He chooses to stand and fight. I don't think so.

Speaker 3 Did you ever saw him submitting someone?

Speaker 1 I don't believe he's ever submitted someone, but I think that's because he likes to just crush people. He likes to bang it out and fight.
He used to fight.

Speaker 3 What everyone likes is to dominate people and to win as soon as possible. If you have the ability to submit someone as soon as you can, you would do it.

Speaker 1 I think that's your mindset. I think Justin Gage's mindset is to be the most violent person alive.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons why he lost some fights early in his career because he took unnecessary chances and he fought recklessly.

Speaker 1 Then, as he adjusted later in his career, he fought more intelligently. He took a lot of risks still, but he was more intelligent about it.
He was more intelligent about the way he approached fights.

Speaker 1 And then he started winning and beating guys. And that, you know, like where he might have thrown himself into wars before.
Like the Michael Johnson fight was just chaos, just a war.

Speaker 1 Just the first fight in the UFC. He just throws himself into chaos.
He was a bad fight. Yeah, chaos.
Yeah. He would just throw, he would just try to see.

Speaker 1 He was like Michael Chandler, but a better fighter. You know, just more successful at it at a high level.

Speaker 3 So you pick Justin Gage over Patty?

Speaker 1 I don't say that.

Speaker 1 I do think that Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a lot of miles on him. Although he's a fucking animal.

Speaker 3 How old is Justin Gaetchy?

Speaker 1 Justin's probably 35. How old is Justin?

Speaker 3 36 turns 37 in November. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's when it starts to slip away. If you're natural, everything after 35, like this is one of the most extraordinary things about Alexander von Marshall.

Speaker 3 I don't think that he's the type of guy that takes care of his body all the time and he's like

Speaker 3 very strict with his health. I think he slept more at day than at night.

Speaker 1 Oh, you think so? Did he parties?

Speaker 3 I think so.

Speaker 3 They put the camera on him on the last pay-per-view and he looked like he was so high.

Speaker 1 What I'm worried about is drunk because high doesn't give you the hangover. High doesn't kill your body.
Drunk kills your body.

Speaker 1 If guys are in between camps getting fat and drinking, that's never a good sign. That's a bad sign.

Speaker 1 That's because you're not just not training, you're deteriorating your body. You know, if Justin Gacy's just smoking a little weed, I'm not worried about that.

Speaker 1 It's not the best for focus.

Speaker 3 He doesn't seem to be that guy that drinks a lot.

Speaker 1 No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
Cocaine is the worst.

Speaker 1 When you hear guys doing Coke, that's the worst. That's the one that deteriorates you more than anything.

Speaker 3 I never even saw a cocaine in my life.

Speaker 1 Me neither. I never done cocaine either.
When I was a kid, I had a friend whose cousin was hooked on cocaine. I got to see it up close.
Yeah. I was like, fuck that stuff.

Speaker 1 That's a scary one for fighters too, because the thrill of cocaine for some reason is exciting to people who love like exciting things.

Speaker 1 Like, there's something about fighters or adrenaline junkies that like to be pumped up. And yeah, Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one of the things that makes me think he probably won't come back.

Speaker 1 But if he does come back, it's got to be now.

Speaker 1 You know, again, at 36 years old, now, Patty Pimblett.

Speaker 1 That's the fight.

Speaker 3 That's going to be a big fight.

Speaker 1 Big fight. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I don't even think Connor's in the drug testing pool anymore.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 3 Don't think so?

Speaker 1 I don't believe so. I don't believe so.

Speaker 1 You can Google that. Find out if he's in the drug.
I think he probably is a test.

Speaker 3 I think he's going to come back.

Speaker 1 You think so? Yeah.

Speaker 3 If they give the opportunity to, I don't know, to guys like, I don't know, what, 40 years old, like Arlowski,

Speaker 3 you can have so many names that they fought at

Speaker 3 40 years age. Why not Connor?

Speaker 1 I know that somebody. I would want a world title fight at 155, but would you make an exception for a Conor McGregor fight in 155?

Speaker 3 But right now.

Speaker 1 Right now. No.
No.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 3 Good for you. Do you think it's going to be excited if I beat Islam and then I give the chance to Connor?

Speaker 1 No, I mean, like, right now, before Islam. Like, if the UFC calls you up and says, I know you want a world title fight, we guarantee you a world title fight after this.

Speaker 3 Actually, we had that talk.

Speaker 1 Really? But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 What was that talk? Tell me what that talk was like. I don't know.
Come on, come on, come on.

Speaker 3 I did this one, and I'm going to get some calls.

Speaker 3 You know how the UFC is. They are very specific.
Don't say anything

Speaker 3 to no one.

Speaker 1 Well, no one's listening. You can tell everybody.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Only a couple of million of people is listening. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It'll slip right by.

Speaker 3 Yeah, if they offer me a fight against Connor right now,

Speaker 1 We'll say why not? Why not? Why not? Why not?

Speaker 3 I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't say no.

Speaker 1 Just for the numbers. If you cut to that pay-per-view and it hits 2 million pies.
Yeah. Woo! Why not? That's the thing about Connor, is like still,

Speaker 1 even though he might not be the best fighter in the world right now,

Speaker 1 he's the golden goose.

Speaker 3 Of course he is. Yeah.
That's something crazy you can't take.

Speaker 1 It's kind of amazing, you know, that still, he still guarantees that many eyeballs. We'll go to see him.
You know, it just...

Speaker 3 That would be a great one. But what excites me more is the fight with Patty.

Speaker 3 Really? Yeah, that fight excites me even more. And if they

Speaker 3 could put that fight in Spain, in the Berna Beo Stadium.

Speaker 3 I know that Dana doesn't like to

Speaker 3 put the events in the stadium, but that's the only stadium in the world that they can close the the roof.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And this prepared for that kind of

Speaker 3 80,000.

Speaker 1 You get 80,000 in Spain easy, too. Yeah, if you're fighting in Spain, no problem.
Oh my god, that would be insane. I might have to go to Spain for that.

Speaker 3 And a lot of people could travel from England to Spain. Oh, yeah.
And that happens very often.

Speaker 1 But if they do it in Spain, it's got to be on Spain time.

Speaker 1 They can't do that shit that they did when Leon Edwards fought.

Speaker 3 It has to be in Spain time, but I think that with the

Speaker 3 like the negotiations they they are having with ESPN and I don't know in which platform they are going to put the UFC events

Speaker 3 they're going to ask for space for four or five events in Europe in the prime time

Speaker 1 for Europe

Speaker 1 listen Europe time time prime time is fine because it's in the afternoon in America that's fine so the fights at one o'clock in the afternoon you people watch football games

Speaker 3 a hundred million people watch a football games still has to be a virgin uh market you know what i mean

Speaker 3 you got 500 million people in Europe. It's more than the United States, even.

Speaker 1 Right. And if they did it on Netflix, everybody has Netflix.

Speaker 3 Everybody has Netflix.

Speaker 1 That might happen.

Speaker 1 That's why. They're in negotiation right now.

Speaker 3 That will be a massive one. In Spain.

Speaker 1 In Spain.

Speaker 3 Against that pimple.

Speaker 1 What happened with you two? Because I saw the video where you guys are yelling at each other. Was it in a hotel or something?

Speaker 3 Yeah, he said something about Georgia

Speaker 3 oh he said something about your country yeah what did he say he said like now I understand what why the why the Russians are are

Speaker 3 bombing Georgia or something like putting bombs in Georgia whoa like bro

Speaker 3 whoa don't joke with that

Speaker 3 you can joke about me say whatever you want to say about me whatever he's a mushroom he is this he is that da da da

Speaker 3 don't talk about war because you don't know how it is Right.

Speaker 1 That's a crazy thing to say.

Speaker 3 Don't say that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that was the beginning of it. It just out of nowhere he said that

Speaker 3 he said that on Twitter.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

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Speaker 3 He said that on Twitter. Maybe he was

Speaker 3 too high,

Speaker 3 too too drunk. I don't know.

Speaker 1 He was talking shit. You know, I mean, it gets people to pay attention.
He's really good at getting people to pay attention.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he is. He's really good at that.
I mean, he could be the next Conor McGregor star, like that kind of a star, where the whole world is watching him.

Speaker 3 He's got a weird personality.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah, he has that.
Well, he's very disarming because people, they see. I talked about this in the last pay-per-view.

Speaker 1 I said it's a very sneaky trick because guys like you look at you the way you carry yourself.

Speaker 1 That's a fighter.

Speaker 1 Like you look at that guy's a dangerous motherfucker But when you see Patty He's dancing like this his hair is flopping around like he's in the Beatles You know, he's like he seems silly, but then he fucks people up and so I think people

Speaker 3 up like Michael Chandler Right, but when he he he faced a real fight who did he face well He hasn't faced anyone and he could yet like he fucked up Michael Chandler

Speaker 3 better than Charles Oliveira did it does and Charles Oliveira even this what I was telling you before like when you got 10 loses in your record, that's not one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Speaker 3 That's ten. Yeah.
Like

Speaker 3 when you walk in with a guy that has 10 loses, the level of confidence is completely different.

Speaker 3 It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that it's undefeated. Right.
He's a dangerous guy. In the striking, in the ground game, everywhere you look at him, he's a dangerous guy.

Speaker 3 He never tastes a lose.

Speaker 3 That's a different mentality.

Speaker 3 you gotta you're gonna have to kill him to give up he's not gonna even give up you're gonna have to kill him in the case of charles if he finds some adversity he's gonna go to the to to the ground he's gonna sit and he's gonna be waiting like till you you end up the fight

Speaker 1 this is what i think this is what i feel this is what i see that was certainly the case early in his career i think things changed with him when he had a child

Speaker 1 um then he went on that run and became a champion. And like when he beat Justin Gaitchie, when he beat all those guys,

Speaker 1 he was pretty elite, man. He was really fucking good.
When he beat Chandler, when Chandler beat him up in that first round and he came back in the second round and fucked him up. Who? Chandler.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I know what you're saying. I get it.

Speaker 3 Connor's been tested 11 times last year, five the year before, none this year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 He was tested this year or no? None this year. None this year.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying. 11 times last year.
Yeah, I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool anymore. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know, I've heard no plans. You know, the UFC would tell me.
I would say, what's going on with Connor? And I don't even bring it up anymore.

Speaker 3 I think with him it's going to happen like instantly if something happens.

Speaker 1 Well, that's crazy. I mean, if he's going to prepare, he needs like a real long camp to really get his body back to fighting shape, like real fighting shape.

Speaker 1 And he's got to remember, you know, what happened when he came back from boxing and then fought Dustin Poor again.

Speaker 3 It depends who he's going to face. Because if you put him

Speaker 3 against me, he needs to die and be born again.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I hear you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 When you think about like your division when you were the champion at 145, would he have been the fight that you would have wanted when he was in his prime at 45?

Speaker 1 Would that be the number one fight that you would have wanted at 145? For sure. Yeah.
For sure. My God.
For sure.

Speaker 3 He was a dangerous guy in 145.

Speaker 1 He was so big.

Speaker 3 He was big, dangerous. Yeah.
He had smartout power, smart.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 One shot knockout power. Yeah.

Speaker 3 He had that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but when he would make 145, I remember that was back when the weigh-ins were literally right there. You'd weigh a guy in, and then they would cheer in front of the crowd.

Speaker 1 Now the weigh-ins are early, and it's a ceremonial weigh-in. So when Connor would weigh in, he would look like death.

Speaker 1 Death.

Speaker 1 See if you can find the video of the weigh-ins with Conor McGregor versus Jose Aldo. He looks like he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean for six months.
Like, look at him. Look at his face.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Look at his face.

Speaker 1 Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg. Click that one with Mike Goldberg.

Speaker 1 Yeah, click on that. My God.

Speaker 1 Look how fucking skinny he looks. Look at his face.
His cheekbones. He looks like he just got out of some Russian prison.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Bro, that one on the right is insane.

Speaker 3 It's fucking insane.

Speaker 3 With muscles.

Speaker 1 That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost.

Speaker 3 I think he walks around in 185.

Speaker 1 So he lost 40 pounds before he fought? That's crazy.

Speaker 3 He fought also at the welterweight division, right?

Speaker 1 Yes. He fought, well, he fought Donald Cerrone, who was really not a Welterweight either.
He was a 155-pounder.

Speaker 1 He wanted to fight Welterweight when he came back. Like when they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight.
And Chandler was like, okay.

Speaker 1 But, you know, part of me wonders, like, whether he was ever really going to come back, you know?

Speaker 1 It's,

Speaker 1 you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 I really think that at some point he's gonna, he's gonna come back because I don't think that he want he

Speaker 3 wants to leave the sport with a defeat. Right.
This what uh what I don't think. I think that he's gonna come back, try to get a win and then retire in the octagon.

Speaker 1 Well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to see him one more time.
Um, it'd be good for him, too, to actually go to a real camp and stop partying.

Speaker 3 You know, would be good for him, for his family, for everyone.

Speaker 1 For everyone.

Speaker 3 But at some point, he's going to stop.

Speaker 1 He's got a lot of legal problems, too, you know? There's a lot going on with him in Ireland.

Speaker 3 But he's running for the president.

Speaker 1 Well, they're talking about prosecuting him for old tweets, too. Ireland, yeah, Ireland is going crazy with their woke shit, with the restrictions and censorship.
The same way the UK is.

Speaker 1 It's really scary stuff. But they're prosecuting people for tweets.
That's crazy. Yeah, England arrested like 4,000 people last year for posting things on social media.

Speaker 3 No way. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 What did they say?

Speaker 1 You don't even have to say anything crazy. You know, you could just say, I don't want any more immigrants in my country, and they'll fucking prosecute you.
It's really crazy. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's not a freedom.

Speaker 1 No, it's not a freedom. It's not free speech.

Speaker 1 It's totalitarian government. And it's scary because it's uh they're they're using it to silence people, to silence people's uh opinions.
And

Speaker 3 crazy.

Speaker 1 Um, see if you can find what's going on with Connor. Because there was something about Connor McGregor possibly being prosecuted for social media posts from, I believe it was 2023,

Speaker 1 some recent post that he had made where they were going to bring them back up and prosecute him for it.

Speaker 3 And he had also like the the case with the rabbits and all that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think because he wants wants to run for president, of course, then they're going to use the law to try to stop him.
Because, look, he's very popular in Ireland and he might win. You know?

Speaker 1 I mean, if these people think that their country is being invaded by Margaret.

Speaker 3 I asked some people from Ireland, like, what are the odds that Khan becomes the president? They told me, like,

Speaker 3 probably zero.

Speaker 1 Conor McGregor will not face charges over social media posts made before and during the Dublin riots. Yeah.
You know what? They said that about Trump, too.

Speaker 1 That Trump wasn't going to win either. They said Trump wasn't.
Yeah, all the fucking newspapers, everything was saying the chances are none.

Speaker 3 No, but I asked to the people.

Speaker 3 I didn't read the...

Speaker 1 It depends on who you're talking to, though. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, it really depends on how he conducts himself.

Speaker 1 To him. Oh.
To him. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 They're like, no way. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Look, he should be fighting.

Speaker 1 And he should be fighting while he can because you don't want to be 49 years old sitting back thinking if you could have just won more, could have got it together if I just stopped partying.

Speaker 3 I really think that he's going to come back at some point, but we'll see.

Speaker 1 There's also the problem of that shin. You know, when a shin snaps like that, that's a nobody really comes back from that.

Speaker 3 His toy is fucked, his chin is fucked, his body is fucked.

Speaker 3 With that, that much parties and drugs and all that, you're going to have to pay that price at some point.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 you are paying the price with your health,

Speaker 3 which is the dumbest thing you can do in your entire life.

Speaker 1 It is

Speaker 1 a dumb thing. Especially for an athlete.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 3 He also suffered a lot with the weight cuts. That's a big damage for your body.
That's also one of the reasons why I changed the weight class.

Speaker 3 Because I realized that my health is the most important thing in my life.

Speaker 3 You can have everything in this life, but if you are not healthy, you don't have anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know,

Speaker 1 when you're cutting that much water out of your body, you're essentially getting to death's door. You're getting to death's door 24 hours before you fight.

Speaker 1 At a world championship level, which is crazy.

Speaker 3 You sometimes feel that you're really gonna die.

Speaker 3 I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours at all because I was so dehydrated. My body was so skinny, and I was dreaming with water, with food, with everything.

Speaker 3 I was my social media and reals everything was about the food food food food food

Speaker 1 everything was about food at that moment you don't give a fuck about anything material about anything so tell me when you start so if you were gonna make 145 on Saturday what is your weight cut like or on Friday what is your weight cut like for the week when does it start and what do you weigh before it starts

Speaker 3 okay basically I started weight cut since the first day I started the training camp which is 12 weeks.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm on like very strict diet, and I have only one cheat meal a week on Saturday, on Wednesday, whenever I choose it. I have just one cheat meal.

Speaker 3 And at the same time, you have to perform at the highest level. You have to train as a motherfucker all the time.
And you have like

Speaker 3 1,800 calories. in your body and you burn four four thousand calories.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 so you are wasting so much energy but you aren't getting back

Speaker 3 a very low so that fucks with your mind right that fucks with your mind and

Speaker 3 you don't feel happiness you feel like stressed depressed you don't find the happiness in anything they could bring you all the money in the world but you don't give a fuck at that moment and about anything material so you're doing it all through camp but when you get to fight week what do you what do you weigh at we do the the the water load

Speaker 3 i start on sunday with eight liters and i don't have carbohydrates i don't have any sodiums uh salts and all that uh do you drink distilled water uh still water yeah oh distilled do you know what i'm saying no no no no just

Speaker 3 just normal water okay

Speaker 3 I'm not having carbohydrates, sodiums, and fibers.

Speaker 3 You say fibers? Fibras? Yeah, fiber.

Speaker 3 I only have fat and proteins in a very small portion.

Speaker 3 And I drink eight liters on Sunday, then eight again on Monday,

Speaker 3 six on Thursday, Wednesday, I drink four, I think, and then on Thursday, I don't drink anything. till Friday, till the weight ends.
Really?

Speaker 3 And before the weight ends, I start to dehydration, the dehydration. Like we do one session in the morning

Speaker 3 and I have to lose almost from two to three kills and the rest

Speaker 3 I have to lose at night because I always

Speaker 3 like to go to the bed

Speaker 1 on weight.

Speaker 3 I don't like to wake up in the morning and have to cut the last part in the morning on Friday morning.

Speaker 1 When did you start drinking wine? before weigh-ins?

Speaker 3 I did it twice in my career. It was once in Las Vegas I was supposed to fight with.
I was fighting with Damon Jackson

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 I had like still

Speaker 3 six kills or something like that.

Speaker 3 That's a lot. That's a lot of way to cut.

Speaker 3 And the guy who was taking care of my nutrition,

Speaker 3 he called us and he told me, drink wine. drink half half butter of wine.
I'm like, you sure?

Speaker 3 Yes, he told me, because if you drink a liter of wine, you're gonna wake up the next day if you don't put anything else in your body with two liters less. Dehydration.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because the alcohol, it's gonna

Speaker 3 provocate the dehydration.

Speaker 3 I did it and it works.

Speaker 3 And after that, I did it in my next fight.

Speaker 3 But then I was like, I don't feel good.

Speaker 1 I don't feel like

Speaker 1 doing this

Speaker 3 in the wake up.

Speaker 3 This is kind of crazy. It's fun.
It's fun because everyone wants to, I don't know,

Speaker 3 everyone is almost dying that night.

Speaker 1 I was like partying with my team, so skinny drinking wine. I'm like, what the fuck are we doing? And after one day,

Speaker 3 I have to face a monster inside the octagon.

Speaker 3 Anyway, experience in life.

Speaker 1 And so then you weigh in, and then what is the rehydration process like?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I used to drink the electrolytes

Speaker 3 until I don't start to pee, I don't put any food in my body. I drink almost for three, four hours in small portions.

Speaker 3 Right now, we are so lucky that we have the Performance Institute. We have great nutritionists

Speaker 3 in that program that help us to do it from the right way. So I start drinking in half a liter of electrolytes, for example, let's say for

Speaker 3 20 minutes, I have to drink that. I can't drink more.
Then one that 20 minutes passed, I have to drink the another bottle and like that, progressively.

Speaker 1 And so once you start to pee, then you allow yourself to eat food. Exactly.
And what kind of food are you eating?

Speaker 3 Most likely carbohydrates. I don't used to eat any proteins because it doesn't help you at all

Speaker 3 to have a great performance inside the octangle, right? Because the protein doesn't

Speaker 3 give you any

Speaker 3 glucosa.

Speaker 1 Glucose, yeah.

Speaker 3 Glucose that your body needs at that time. Everything you need, it's electrolytes and carbohydrates.
That's all you need. Not even fibers.

Speaker 1 Okay, so like what kind of food, like pasta, like that kind of pasta. How good does that taste after all that time?

Speaker 3 Bro, amazing. Amazing.

Speaker 3 You could cook the pasta for me that day and I don't know how good you cook, but it would be amazing. Amazing.
I don't care about...

Speaker 1 So you've gone so long without carbohydrates.

Speaker 3 I have like almost a week and a half without carbohydrates. And I'm struggling for 12 weeks because I have only one cheat meal.

Speaker 3 So once I I finish the cheat meal, I know that in one week I'm not gonna have another cheat meal.

Speaker 3 So, I'm gonna have to eat whatever they tell me to eat. Like, I wake up, I know that I'm gonna have two eggs with one slice of bread, and I'm gonna have to train.

Speaker 3 I don't know how much in the morning, and then in the afternoon, I'm gonna have to train again, and I'm gonna have the same food all the time. And the good thing about that is that my wife

Speaker 3 was like a very

Speaker 3 important part in my last training camps because he made my

Speaker 3 my diet more more fun you know I didn't have to eat to repeat the food all the time because when I was in charge of that

Speaker 3 just imagine what I was eating all the time the same all the time

Speaker 1 just the same boring food just the same

Speaker 3 food because i didn't even have like the the opportunities that i have right now right now i have a chef i have I set up my home with everything. Everything is so comfortable.
But before

Speaker 3 I had to cook for myself,

Speaker 3 go to the supermarket, doing everything

Speaker 3 by myself. And it was tough.

Speaker 1 So all the foods weighed out. All the calories are measured.

Speaker 1 Everything's very systematic.

Speaker 1 So with this extra 10 pounds, How much better do you think you'll be able to perform inside the octagon? Because I would imagine physically, that's got to take a toll on you.

Speaker 1 As good as your performances were, and they were spectacular, but as good as your performances were, your body could not have been operating at 100%.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 3 You are going to see me at 155 that I'm going to touch someone and I'm going to take his lights out. Even if I don't need to touch his chin, I just touch his head and it will explode.

Speaker 3 I feel so powerful at that weight class. So power, so stable in the ground.
Like, do you want to wrestle? that let's wrestle no problem and i have the gas tank for

Speaker 1 five days not five rounds do you think that a lot of fighters maybe diminish their potential by competing at a lower weight class for too long this episode is brought to you by ship station look if you run an online store you already know that shipping can make or break your business people remember if their stuff shows up late or if it's smooth and fast that's where ship station comes in there's a reason why successful businesses use ShipStation.

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Speaker 3 It depends. It depends.

Speaker 3 Some of them, yes. Some of them, no.
Because

Speaker 3 I think there are guys fighting in 145 that

Speaker 3 they could fight in 135 because they are smaller than that. Like Josie Aldo.

Speaker 1 Like Josie Aldo. I mean, he was one of the best ever at 145 and really looks fantastic now at 135.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 And says this is the first time at 35 in his career that he's ever taken nutrition seriously.

Speaker 3 But at the same time,

Speaker 3 he was a world champion.

Speaker 1 Right. For sure.
One of the best.

Speaker 3 And one of the best.

Speaker 3 May he would cut the weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at this level.

Speaker 1 Right, because he wouldn't have the energy. But Josiah was big at 145 back in the day.

Speaker 1 He would struggle to make 145 earlier in his career, but I just think he wasn't doing it the right way, like you're doing it. You know, I think athletes of today are much more systematic about that.

Speaker 3 And they have more information about the nutrition. They have, we got more help from the performance institute, as they told you.

Speaker 1 Like, the UFC Performance Institute is incredible.

Speaker 1 I remember when they first opened it, I was a little skeptical. I'm like, who's going to use this? What is the big deal? And then I went there.
I was like, oh, bro, okay. Crazy.
It was amazing.

Speaker 3 Without them, you wouldn't see many of the fights that we have seen. A lot of people would miss the weight.

Speaker 3 A lot of people.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So at 155, you're going to be able to eat more, you're going to be able to train more, you'll be able to recover better,

Speaker 1 everything.

Speaker 3 Much better.

Speaker 3 They're really taking care of you.

Speaker 1 I can't wait. I can't wait to see it.

Speaker 3 I can't wait either.

Speaker 1 I want to wait.

Speaker 3 I want to fight.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 take me through

Speaker 1 what is a typical training week like for you. How much strength and conditioning do you do?

Speaker 1 How much do you concentrate on technique? How much do you spar?

Speaker 3 Outside or inside the training camp?

Speaker 1 Let's go with outside the training camp first.

Speaker 3 So outside the training camp, I try to develop my skills in every discipline. Like I try to

Speaker 3 not mix it up. I don't trade MMA at all.
I do boxing classes, wrestling classes. I try to learn every discipline separate.

Speaker 1 Why do you do that?

Speaker 3 Because when the training camp comes,

Speaker 3 I try to mix it up and polish everything that I have been able to to learn till that moment. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Everything that worked worked for me in the wrestling and boxing, it w m in in the places where I feel comfortable. Like that's why I want to develop all the time my my knowledge.

Speaker 3 I want to get better all the time. And I can get better if I only go and train MMA and I only drill the same things all the time.
Right. My head is like s

Speaker 3 getting stuck, getting stuck. You know, I need to learn new techniques because

Speaker 3 I think that

Speaker 3 I have much more to learn in every discipline. Like in BJJ, you never end up learning.

Speaker 3 All the time you learn new things, you see new things, you want to try it, and it takes some time that that technique works for you and when you're rolling with someone, for example, right? Right.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, one thing is what you know, and the other is what you do with what you know.

Speaker 1 How do you know how much time to allocate to each specific discipline? Because something like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, it's a never-ending journey.

Speaker 1 Like, there's so many techniques, it's it's on there's so many different combinations of things that you could do to a human body when you're grappling.

Speaker 3 So, the thing about me is like you have to decide what kind of style do you want to have. Do you want to fight from the court?

Speaker 1 How do you say the guard? Guard?

Speaker 3 Do you want to pass the guard? Like there are different styles, right?

Speaker 3 But at some point

Speaker 3 I was like

Speaker 3 fighting all the time from the guard. I was doing like the beating bolos, baby bolos, everything, because I needed to feel what the people feels when I'm passing the guard.

Speaker 1 The guard.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? So the same thing with boxing, for example. Someone has a defensive style, someone has

Speaker 3 aggressive style, but from distance, someone needs to cut to distance and work more in the body.

Speaker 3 So, I don't know. It's like

Speaker 3 it's so difficult to

Speaker 3 explain to you.

Speaker 1 I know what you're saying, though. I think one of your most impressive performances was Josh Emmett.
Because Josh Emmett, he's such a powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous puncher.

Speaker 1 But everything he throws you has murder on it. Everything.
But you just kind of slipped and moved with everything and just systematically broke him down. But you adjusted your style for his danger.

Speaker 1 You adjusted your style for him and just dominated the fight. I think that was one of the most impressive performances because it showed how skillful you could be.

Speaker 1 Where it's like, imagine if Michael Chandler fought Josh Emmett. It would be fucking madness.
Just madness. Two dudes just trying to murder each other.
It's like, just fucking throwing the haymakers.

Speaker 1 But what you did was you broke down what he was doing. You found your openings.
You started to get your timing. You started to figure out.
You put all his movements into your computer.

Speaker 1 And then you rolled with everything.

Speaker 1 Everything he threw, you rolled with. When he had big shots, you moved with them.

Speaker 3 All his big shots were coming with the right hand. Like, he's the type of guy that ends up every combination with the right hand.

Speaker 3 So everything I had to do, it's all the time I didn't have to exchange the punches with him I had to let him throw me all the punches roll his right hand and then start with my combinations and this is what I really did like I was hurting him with with with the cuffcakes then I was going for my combinations and long combinations all the time in MMA no one works a long combination combinations no one they always used to do one two one two three but no one does one two three three four five six

Speaker 3 you know and like the giant herbert fight exactly usually you're getting two punches everyone blocks two punches but after the second one they put their hands down again and then is when i go again like one two one two three four five boom

Speaker 1 you are not waiting for that and if i change the levels and i go in the head and the body cuff kicks i go for the takedowns i mix it up you you get crazy It's interesting that you didn't start boxing until you're 17 because you're probably the best boxer in not just the featherweight division, but you might be the best boxer in the sport in terms of your movement and then your one-punch power.

Speaker 1 Your one-punch power is pretty fucking crazy, which I think you either have or you don't.

Speaker 1 You definitely can develop it, and it definitely is dependent upon technique, but either you have power or you don't have power.

Speaker 1 So did you always notice that? Like from the very beginning when you first started training? I always had power. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it is.
It's a God-given thing. God-given thing.

Speaker 3 100%. I always had that power.
I remember myself without much technique, but I was connecting the punches and putting guys to sleep in the trainings.

Speaker 3 And I wasn't that skeletal guy.

Speaker 1 But I had that power. But you were smart enough.
See, this is the difference between like a Josh Emmett approach. and your approach.

Speaker 1 You were smart enough to realize that, okay, I've got this power, but now I need to develop laser sharp techniques.

Speaker 3 Of course. and I have to be able to find the moment.
I don't have to just throw it and believe that I have the power. If I connect it I put you to sleep.

Speaker 3 No it's not if I I'm gonna connect you that punch. I'm gonna work for that and I'm gonna find that specific moment to put your lights out.

Speaker 3 And I know with everyone even if in 155 I know that I'm gonna be able to find that find that moment where I'm gonna be able to connect that one punch or two or three punches.

Speaker 3 Because sometimes sometimes it's not only one, I'm able to combinate punches. You know, sometimes you think that I'm going for your head and I'm going, my main combination is to go to the body.

Speaker 3 And I go to that with that liver shot. And that hurts also.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And little by maybe

Speaker 3 I don't knock you out, but it takes a lot of cardio from you, a lot of moments, you start doubting yourself,

Speaker 3 getting like, wow, if he connects me this punch in the chin, I'm done. And you're starting

Speaker 3 to doubt, and then the doubts kill you at the end. Yeah.
It's like little by little, little by little.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's interesting how few guys really work the body well.

Speaker 1 That's one thing about Jack De La Madalena is that he's a very good body puncher, which is one of the things that I think is very interesting about this fight with Bilal Muhammad.

Speaker 1 He's a dangerous body puncher. He's very good at mixing up and down.

Speaker 3 No one

Speaker 3 usually used to attack the body in the UFC. I don't know why.
It's such a beautiful technique to go. It is to go and work the body.
Not only the hat, everyone goes for the head.

Speaker 3 But there are also weaknesses in the human being's body, which is the body.

Speaker 1 Especially with those little MMA gloves. You know? Everything cards.
Yeah, and you're digging, digging into that rib cage. But it's just, it's interesting how the sport evolves.

Speaker 1 And I think when a guy like you comes around that does mix things up so well and does have elite boxing the next generation will also copy you they will copy your style you know because like think about the calf kick there was no calf kicks forever forever I don't know what when they style with the calf kicks Benson Henderson Benson Henderson Benson Henderson he was the first guy I ever saw do him he was doing a lot and I remember pointing it out like he wasn't doing it as effectively where he was like crippling guys moot movement but he was doing it a lot And then I remember when Dustin Poirier fought Jim Miller.

Speaker 1 Jim Miller almost took him out with calf kicks. Like Justin Poirier's calf was destroyed in that fight.
And then, you know, Dustin Poirier became a really good calf kicker after that.

Speaker 1 And then it became ubiquitous. Everybody has to have a calf kick.

Speaker 3 But it comes from Muay Thai. It comes from kickboxing.
It comes from.

Speaker 1 Well, it sort of does, but in Muay Thai, they don't throw it very often. It's not a common technique in kickboxing or Muay Thai, which is interesting.
It's not as common as it is in MMA.

Speaker 3 So much. It's like a jab, but for the legs.
Yeah. Jab.

Speaker 1 It also cripples your movement, which is terrible because you can't punch as hard because you don't have a left leg anymore or a right leg, depending on what's forward.

Speaker 3 At the same time, it distracts you a lot.

Speaker 3 Right. You know what? And it hurts so much.
Yeah, it hurts. It distracts you.

Speaker 3 You don't only have to think about the hands, you have to think about also about the kicks.

Speaker 1 Well, Izzy said that when he lost to Alex Pereira the first fight in the UFC, he said he wasn't hurt that bad with the punches. He said he couldn't move.
He said his leg was so destroyed.

Speaker 1 He said, my left leg was so compromised, I couldn't move. And then in the second fight,

Speaker 1 when he knocked Alex out in the first round, he said, My leg was fucked already. He's like, he was getting me again.
He's so sneaky with that calf kick because he throws it. He's got that weird style.

Speaker 1 He stands,

Speaker 1 and he just kind of throws it out there, and you don't even see it coming because he's not twisting his hips.

Speaker 1 He's not, and it's still, he hits so hard that he doesn't have to turn his body weight into it.

Speaker 1 And he's still fucking you up.

Speaker 3 And at the same time, he had that muscle memory.

Speaker 3 He was like, if he starts with a calf cake, I'm going to be fucked.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He said that to me.
He's like, at the end of the round, I was like, oh, this motherfucker did it again. I can't believe he got me again.
He's like, my leg was fucked.

Speaker 1 And then he caught him with that right hand.

Speaker 3 What's your all-time favorite fighter to watch in the UFC?

Speaker 1 Boy, I don't think I have one.

Speaker 1 I don't think I have one.

Speaker 3 That's the top five.

Speaker 1 Well, you're in there. You're in the top five.
Really? Yeah, for real.

Speaker 3 I'm always joke.

Speaker 1 For real. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 How could you not be? You knocked out two Hall of Famers, two of the all-time greats. Volkanovsky and Max Holloway are all-time greats.
Two of the greatest featherweight champions.

Speaker 1 So if you're a great featherweight champion, you're the greatest in a division that probably has, if not the most skill, there's like, there's an argument for the most skill.

Speaker 1 I think it's 45 and and 55. I think those are the two divisions that have the most skill.
Yeah. So to be a champion at 45 or 55, you're a champion in the most skillful weight class.
Like, look at 45.

Speaker 1 So many fucking killers at 45 now. Like, look at what Jean Silva just did to Bryce Mitchell, and he wasn't even ranked.
Yeah. You know, I mean, this guy is a motherfucker, man.

Speaker 1 You know, and these guys are coming up, and they're so goddamn good. And Yair Rodriguez, you know, you got these guys that are so skillful.
You got so much talent.

Speaker 3 I don't know what to tell you about Jaira because I'm not a big fan of him. Jair? Yeah.
No? How come? No.

Speaker 3 No, I don't know.

Speaker 3 I see him. He's the type of guy that you don't even need to take him down.
He goes to the ground by himself. I don't know.

Speaker 3 He's like very spectacular at the way he fights and the striking and the kicks he throws and all that.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I'm not a big fan of him.
I'm a fan of Walk and Max Holloway. Well, actually, they they were the smartest guy, smartest guys that I ever faced inside the octagon.

Speaker 3 I felt that they were smart. They had that fight IQ.

Speaker 3 They know how to fight.

Speaker 1 Do you think Max Holloway made a mistake in going up to 55 and then back down to 45 again? Because he got big when he fought.

Speaker 3 100%. Yeah.
I think so, too. 100%.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He looked too compromised. He looked too good.
He didn't look healthy at 45.

Speaker 3 He gets crazy for the title shot.

Speaker 3 He was like, take the gold. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I understand it.
I get it. I understand it.
And the guy who was the 145-pound champion, he knew it would be hard to make the way, but he felt like he could do it.

Speaker 1 But the thing is, he gained so much muscle to get to 55 to fight Gage. And he did it over a long period of time where he really bulked up well.

Speaker 3 But at the same time, I don't know.

Speaker 3 If he wouldn't try it,

Speaker 3 he would stay for life with the doubt that if I.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So another one is Pereira. just because what he's done inside the octagon is so crazy.
Two division world champions in a short period of time and hadn't been fighting MMA for but three or four years.

Speaker 1 Crazy. It was crazy.
Crazy. And it's also what he does when he hits people.
Like what he did to,

Speaker 1 well, I mean, but basically what he does to everybody when he connects. I mean, his power is just different.

Speaker 1 What he did to Jamal Hill, one left hook, boom. And Jamal Hill, who's good at taking a shot, all of a sudden he's gone.
You know, he's just, there's something, Yuri Prohoska, that fight.

Speaker 1 Like the second fight, he's crazy. Crazy.
He's just like, he hits you one time.

Speaker 1 That was with a head kick, right?

Speaker 1 Head kick in the second round, but dropped him with a left hook. He was basically done after the first round because it was at the buzzer.

Speaker 1 He hit him with a left hook, and then he drops, and then the bell rings.

Speaker 1 And then he knocks him out with a head kick in the second round. But

Speaker 1 he's just got this crazy style that's different than anybody else's style.

Speaker 1 And he's such a specialist, such a kickboxing specialist, two-division world champion in glory, and then goes on and becomes a two-division special. He is.
And 37. You know, he's older.

Speaker 1 He's an older guy, you know, to be fighting at such an elite level. You know, John Jones, definitely.
John Jones, one of the greatest of all time. I mean,

Speaker 3 John, what do you think about? He's going to come by. He's going to fight Tom?

Speaker 1 Yes. I think he'll fight Tom.
I think he'll hang out. You don't think so? No? Really?

Speaker 3 I don't think so.

Speaker 1 How come?

Speaker 3 For what?

Speaker 1 For glory.

Speaker 3 He already has the glory.

Speaker 1 Yeah, one more glory before the lights fade. Yeah? Yeah.
I think John's a conqueror.

Speaker 1 He is. I think he's sit-back.

Speaker 3 He's the best of all time. No one can

Speaker 3 say the opposite of that.

Speaker 1 He's the best. Look, the guy developed a spinning back kick at 36.

Speaker 1 Didn't have a spinning back kick his whole career. And then all of a sudden knocks out Stepe with a spinning back kick for the heavyweight title at 36, 37 years old.
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 And they showed me a video

Speaker 3 three days ago, four days ago. John, before the fight with Steve, he was practicing that kick at the day of the fight.
Yes. And he said something like...

Speaker 3 This is the kick. I'm going to knock him out with this kick.

Speaker 3 And the guy showed me the video.

Speaker 1 that's crazy well john's fight iq is insane insane insane insane yeah he's a smart he's a smart guy and did a lot of his career partying which is even crazier like diminished his body did coke like one of the things he said to daniel cocaine with daniel cormier rather which is one of the uh coldest things anybody's ever said he said i beat you when i was on coke

Speaker 1 That's such a cold-blooded thing to say. It's so cold-blooded.

Speaker 1 It's so cold-blooded. Crazy.
He's so crazy. He was so good.
But he was so good. He was better than everybody in his division, so he didn't work hard.

Speaker 1 But then when he has to work hard, he's fucking terrifying. Like when he fought Alexander Gustafsson, barely trained.
They said he barely trained, barely was in the gym.

Speaker 1 They were really worried about him.

Speaker 1 Greg Jackson said they were even considering not letting him fight. Like, you shouldn't be fighting.
You're not training. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then he guts it out in the final rounds, wins the decision, very close fight. Then they have a rematch.
And in the rematch,

Speaker 1 he's fucking trained. Yeah.
And then he just destroyed him in the rematch.

Speaker 3 The first fight was very competitive. Very second one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he dummied. Not competitive at all.
Yeah, when John is focused and John is in shape and training, he's the greatest of all time.

Speaker 1 I think he fights Aspinall because I think it's going to be a lot of money.

Speaker 1 It's glory. And look, Aspinall is amazing.
He's unbelievable. He's fast as fuck for a heavyweight.
He's big. He can grapple.
Black belt and jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 1 He's got got knockout power but he's never been in deep water

Speaker 1 ever i don't even know if he's gone to a second round i don't want to say that he he

Speaker 3 doesn't have any chance because everyone has it one punch can change everything

Speaker 3 and in in inside the octagon

Speaker 3 of course we everyone think that john joan is gonna gonna get it but you can't count it count him out at all to tom aspina but i don't think that he's gonna come back me personally do you think what is this here?

Speaker 3 One time, Andre Lovsky took him to the second round.

Speaker 1 That's it. Oh, really?

Speaker 1 Wow. I don't even remember that.

Speaker 1 And then he TKO'd him. That was four years ago.
That's kind of crazy if you look at his career. It's all one and two.
And then in Bama, he had a two-round fight.

Speaker 1 That's great, but it's also not great because he doesn't have any deep water experience.

Speaker 1 You know, if you're fighting a guy like, imagine if he fought Steve Bay when Steve Bay was in his prime, or he fought Kane.

Speaker 1 You can't have one-round fights and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a five-round war, because the chances are you're not going to catch him in the first round. And his cardio is just like an alien.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but at the same time, you don't know how he's going to look at the fourth and fifth round.

Speaker 1 Right, he might be great.

Speaker 3 He might be great.

Speaker 1 Sure, he might be great, but he doesn't have that experience. So in his head, you've got to think there's got to be some, no matter how confident he is, there's got to be a couple questions.

Speaker 1 If you've never been, like, John has no questions, right? There's no questions in John Jones' head. He's gone through five-round wars, like the Gustafson fight, five-round war, no training, wins.

Speaker 1 He knows that he's got what it takes. He's got heart.
It's undeniable. So there's no questions.
But with Aspinall, it's like, yeah, he can get everybody out of there.

Speaker 1 He's got the confidence that he gets everybody out of there. That's for sure.
Like, he's got the confidence that he connects. He's so fast and athletic for a heavyweight.

Speaker 1 And he's a legitimate heavyweight. Like, Tom Aspinall's not making 205.
He's big. He's big.
He's a big fucker. He's big.

Speaker 1 So for him, you know, it's...

Speaker 3 But John Jones is special.

Speaker 1 He's special. He is special.

Speaker 3 And he has that fight IQ. He's not that type of guy that he walks in and, for example, I don't know, Francis Ninganu.

Speaker 3 You know that he got that one-punch power,

Speaker 3 but he doesn't have the same level of fight IQ as John Jones. Right.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 With John is like if he feels that you are dangerous in the striking, he's gonna grab your legs, try to mould you a little bit in the ground.

Speaker 3 Then, if you go in the second round with him in the striking, you're gonna be tired.

Speaker 1 He also beats the fuck out of your knees. That front leg side kick to the knee, the oblique kick to the knee.

Speaker 3 He's a bad guy. He wants to hurt you.

Speaker 1 He's trying to fuck you up.

Speaker 3 He doesn't care to go with the elbow, with the knee. He wants to hurt you.

Speaker 1 John, when you know, when he fought Tiago, Tiago Santos, at the end of that fight, Tiago needed two knee surgeries. Both of his knees were destroyed.
And he was basically never the same fighter since.

Speaker 1 Ever after that fight.

Speaker 1 What happened with that guy?

Speaker 3 Ever saw him?

Speaker 1 Never, ever. Well, he fought again after that.
And he left the UFC, but his knees were never the same. He had multiple knee surgeries after that fight.
Crazy. Both of his knees got kicked out.

Speaker 1 I mean, he was front, leg, side, kicking the shit out of his knees.

Speaker 3 And what about you used to train sometimes? Sure.

Speaker 1 MMA?

Speaker 3 Jiu-Jitsu?

Speaker 1 Mostly Jiu-Jitsu. I did Muay Thai.
Yeah. I started in Taekwondo and then I started...
That's great.

Speaker 3 I would love to share some training with you.

Speaker 1 I would love to share some training with you, too. I want to see what you do, man.
I watched you grapple with Marab. I was super impressed.

Speaker 1 I watched the video you grapple with. I'm like, anybody that could do that to Marab.
Like, holy shit. Because people think about you.
They're scared of your striking. But one of the things,

Speaker 1 you opened up a lot of people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight. Because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle.

Speaker 1 He was like this elite Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt who do a lot of strange things like he would turn his back to people crazy and do weird things that he'll hook BJ Penn like that in the first round like with that Imanari role yeah but when you dominated him like that I was like Jesus Christ and then you put his lights out I was like wow

Speaker 1 because people think when people see a guy who can strike like you do they kind of forget about the ground game you know they forget that your ground game is very elite too you know which is really interesting because

Speaker 1 you tend to put people in categories of danger. But with you, it's all danger.

Speaker 3 Like

Speaker 1 you have a very well-balanced game,

Speaker 1 which is unusual. Like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game.
You know, his game is, he's going to connect and you're going to wake up. You know, that's all it is.

Speaker 1 His game is kickboxing. But your game is like, it's everything.
It's all over the place. You know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight, it's everywhere.
It's stand-up. It's the ground.
It's comprehensive.

Speaker 1 It's like George St. Pierre when he was in his prime.
It was coming from all different angles. You never knew if he was going to take you down.
You didn't know if he was going to strike with you.

Speaker 1 It was all, your mind was overwhelmed with possibilities, which is, in my opinion, what I like to watch. That's what I like the most.
A guy who can do everything. I love specialists.

Speaker 1 I love Damian Maia because when Damian Maya would get you, he would clinch you.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're fucked.

Speaker 1 To this day, the one fight that drives me the most crazy where a referee fucked it up was Kamaro Usman and Damian Meyer.

Speaker 1 Because in the first round, Damian Meyer had Kamaru Usman's back standing up, had one leg laced, had his back, but it was taking too long, and the referee separated them.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, you motherfucker. He's so close.
He's so close. Wow.
This is it. Look at this shit.
Like, Kamaru Usman's in deep shit here. He's in deep shit here.
And the referee fucking separated him.

Speaker 1 This is crazy.

Speaker 1 This referee, this drives me nuts. Back it up a little bit.
Back it up a little bit. Because it's before this.
It's before this. So, like, once he finally secures it, go a little bit before that?

Speaker 1 A little bit before, a little bit before, a little bit before.

Speaker 1 Maybe.

Speaker 1 Do it right from the moment where they clinch up.

Speaker 1 Okay, right here.

Speaker 1 So as soon as he clinches up and he ties that leg, as soon as he gets his hands together, Kamaro's in deep shit right here. Deep shit.

Speaker 1 Kamaro has one loss on his record, and that's by rear naked choke. And now he's grappling with one of the best to ever do it.
To this day, this fucks me up.

Speaker 1 This is one of the reasons why I hate when they separate fighters. I hate when they stand people up, and I hate when they separate fighters.
This is a huge mistake here by this referee.

Speaker 1 Because you've got one of the greatest ground specialists of all time.

Speaker 3 Do you think that he was the most dangerous guy in the ground? Yes.

Speaker 1 In his prime. In his prime, he dominated people.

Speaker 1 This is so close, man. Kamaro's in real trouble here.
The way his arm is compromised behind his back, he's fucked here. You got to get out of this.

Speaker 1 You can't get separated just because the crowd's booing, the referees, like too involved.

Speaker 3 Get the fuck out of there.

Speaker 1 Get out of there and let him work. Because if he gets to the ground, Kamaro might be fucked here.
And there's two minutes to work. There's plenty of time.
To this day, that drives me nuts.

Speaker 3 He's doing something very interesting there with the

Speaker 1 butterfly. Yes, with that left butterfly.
Yeah, he's constantly keeping you off base. And you know that if you make any mistakes here, that right hook is coming over, the arm's coming over the top.

Speaker 1 As soon as he lets go of that butterfly. Yes.
So as soon as he lets go of that arm, that arm that he's got trapped, that arm that he's got trapped with his over with his left arm, as soon as Kamaru

Speaker 1 is, if he gets that arm over the top of the shoulder, Kamaru's fucked, man. This is a terrible spot to be.

Speaker 1 And for the referee to separate them and not let him work, I was talking to Matt Sarah about it the other day. And he was like, yes, he fucked them.
Yeah, he fucked them. They did.
They fucked him.

Speaker 1 Then

Speaker 1 Kamaru wins this fight. And then, you know,

Speaker 1 the world changes. It changes.
Because this could have been a loss. And then Kamaru could have been back to the drawing board.
It's a bad situation to be in with a ground.

Speaker 1 See, look, now he has this advantage of being able to stand up again. Like, why? Why does he have this advantage? Why, why? You should be back where you were.
There's no reason to separate those guys.

Speaker 1 Referee mistakes are crazy. You know, like,

Speaker 1 there's moments in fights where referees make mistakes, where a fighter's whole career just changes, just flashes before their eyes.

Speaker 3 The other day, also, something happened in the paper in the car with Dan Eager. Yes, yes.
I don't know why he stopped the fight.

Speaker 1 Yes, that was a bad decision, too. That was bad as well.
Same thing. Sean Woodson.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I think he would win the fight anyways, but he didn't have to stop the fight.

Speaker 1 It was a bad stoppage. It was a bad stoppage.
Yeah. Yeah, there's bad stoppages, man.
I mean, it happens. It happened to Jared Cannanier.
Jared Cannanier had a bad stoppage.

Speaker 1 I guess who was that against?

Speaker 1 Was it Imam Olov?

Speaker 3 The war stoppage?

Speaker 3 The Robbie Lawler against Ben Oscar.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, that was the worst one. That was the worst one.
That was the worst one. They thought he was out and he wasn't out.
I was so excited for that fight.

Speaker 1 Robbie was beating the fuck out of him, too, before that headlock. Yeah, that was terrible.
That was a bad stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad stuff.

Speaker 1 But, you know, look, the referees have the second hardest job in the sport. The first hardest job in the sport.

Speaker 1 Yeah, here it is. This is Jared Cannanier and Emo Volve.
So he gets caught. Look at that right there.
That's crazy. That's a crazy stoppage.

Speaker 3 He stopped the fire?

Speaker 1 Wow. Yes.
No. Yeah, look at this.
He got hurt. He got hurt, but he's covering up.
And by the way, Jared Cannanier can fucking take it, man. He comes back.

Speaker 1 Jared Cannanier came back against Rodriguez in his last fight. He was hurt way worse than this, and he came back to score a knockout.

Speaker 1 But that was a crazy stoppage. It just, you know, like I said, referees have the second hardest job.
Fighters have the first hardest job. Second hardest job is being a referee.

Speaker 1 Because those moments where you make a decision, you're like, oh,

Speaker 1 you can't take it back. The fight's over.

Speaker 3 That's true.

Speaker 1 It's terrible.

Speaker 3 It's hard to be a referee. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then there's the judging. Some judges.
Judging. Yeah.
How do they

Speaker 3 also something that drives me crazy? It's like,

Speaker 1 how do they keep having the same bad judges come back again? That's what's crazy. Because the UFC has no control of the judges.
The judges are all established by the Athletic Commission. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So sometimes you get great judging. And it's like, oh, these judges are good tonight.
These are good decisions. And sometimes you get, what the fuck is going on? Yeah.
Sometimes judges are horrible.

Speaker 1 Horrible.

Speaker 3 Doesn't make any sense. You never know if they

Speaker 3 give you more points for wrestling, for striking, for defending.

Speaker 1 Right. It's crazy.
Well, some judges just aren't qualified. They don't have a martial arts experience.
They don't, they don't have a background. You know, they just learned how to judge.

Speaker 1 You can't, I don't think you can do that. It's like, I don't speak Spanish, but if you taught me some Spanish and then I was judging Spanish would I would that you know I'm saying like crazy.

Speaker 1 I'm not qualified right you are not right, so if you have a guy who doesn't really understand who's got the dominant position like maybe you see a bullshit guillotine that has no chance.

Speaker 3 It's not like they never fought. It's they not even never trained right exactly

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Speaker 3 I realized

Speaker 1 early on in the UFC, one of the judges turned to one of the people next to this person. It was a woman.
She turns to this person. He goes, what is he doing?

Speaker 3 Norway. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what is he doing? Someone was trying to get a Kimura. She's like, what is he doing? She didn't know what a Kimura was.

Speaker 3 So how'd they get there?

Speaker 1 They were boxing judges. So the boxing judges, they started using them for MMA fights with no martial arts experience at all.
Never,

Speaker 1 never stepped on the mat, never put in a mouthpiece, never got punched in the face.

Speaker 1 That's crazy.

Speaker 3 That's crazy. They don't know how it works.

Speaker 1 And it's they're judging at a professional world championship level. At the highest level.
It's crazy. It's crazy.
I think they should have more judges.

Speaker 3 Let me ask you something. What do you think was the K of success of the UFC? Like, it was Dana White, it was the matchmakers, it was the fighters, it was the promotion.

Speaker 1 What it was? I think the big thing was the Ultimate Fighter. I think everybody kind of agrees with that.

Speaker 1 The Ultimate Fighter reality show, what made the UFC huge was that first season of the reality show because this was 2005.

Speaker 1 So reality shows were really popular back then. This is, you know, Survivor and Fear Factor, and there's all these reality shows and Big Brother.

Speaker 1 And so they had this reality show that people were watching with fighters. And then they have the finale.

Speaker 1 And in the finale, Forrest Griffin fights Stephan Bonner, and it's such a crazy fight that people are just telling their friends,

Speaker 1 the ratings were going up as the fight went on. And, you know, the Fertidas, the people that owned the UFC before this current company, they were in the hole, $40 million.

Speaker 1 And they just kept losing money. And they said, listen, this is the last.
They were going to sell the UFC at one point in time. And then they got to this point where they're like, look.

Speaker 1 Let's just try this one more thing. Let's just try this one more thing.
And they did this

Speaker 1 reality show, and the reality show worked. And then 2005, and then they had Chuck Liddell.
And Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy for this new cage fighting thing.

Speaker 1 This fucking maniac with a mohawk and a tattoo on his head, and he's just crushing everybody.

Speaker 1 You know, he was the perfect guy because the fights were so exciting, and he had this insane style, this insane, almost like Michael Chandler style, but very.

Speaker 3 But entertaining style.

Speaker 1 Very, very entertaining. Just warrior.

Speaker 3 He was a good boxer.

Speaker 1 Good striker. Fast hands.
Yeah, fast hands, vicious knockout power. And he was a wrestler, but he didn't wrestle anything.
He was a heavyweight. Light heavyweight.
Yeah. Big guy.
Yeah, he was a heavy.

Speaker 1 Light heavyweight. Big guy.
KOs people with one punch. And, you know, it was perfect for the sport because he was so exciting.
And he looked the part. He was like a maniac.

Speaker 1 And after we'd win, he'd go, ah!

Speaker 1 and run around the cage. It was so exciting.
So exciting. He was the poster boy.
He was the guy. He was the guy that put the sport on the map because people would watch him and they go, geez.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that time

Speaker 3 timeline of MMA was so fun. It was fun.
Was Rampage Jackson also? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 And then when Rampage Kato'd him, you know, he became the man. And, you know, and then John Jones comes along.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, it's like the sport. That's what's crazy about John, right? John's been dominant now for like, what, 15, 16 years? Yeah.
That's nuts, man.

Speaker 3 That's why I say he's the best.

Speaker 1 He's the goat. He's the goat.

Speaker 1 I don't know

Speaker 3 how they don't put him as the number one pound for pounds. He's the number one pound for pounds.

Speaker 1 You know, know, it's just because he doesn't fight as often as Islam. You know, Islam's defended his title more recently, more often against top-flight competition.

Speaker 1 Whereas John is, you know, John takes a year off, does a year off here, a year off there.

Speaker 1 But when you look at the overall record, the overall career, he's the greatest of all time.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 when I talk about just technique, you gotta listen. You gotta think about Mighty Mouse too, man.
Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad motherfucker, man.

Speaker 1 He would do shit to guys like when he suplexed Ray Borg and caught him with an arm bar in the middle of the air and finished him.

Speaker 1 You don't think so?

Speaker 1 I see your face. I see your face.
No, no, no.

Speaker 3 It's not like, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 I never was a big fan of him.

Speaker 1 No? No.

Speaker 1 Never.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 3 first of all, when you call yourself a Mickey Mouse.

Speaker 1 Mighty. Mighty Mouse.
Mighty Mouse.

Speaker 3 So I always thought that he was a Mickey Mouse. And I'm like, bro, what the fuck are you calling yourself a Mickey Mouse?

Speaker 3 No. He was a good fighter.
He was a good fighter. He was a very technical fighter.
He dominated the whole division. How many times did he defend his belt?

Speaker 1 Many times.

Speaker 1 14 times? Many times. 12.
He fucked a lot of people up. But then there's an issue where the quality of the competition in the 125-pound division back then was not at the level that it is now.

Speaker 1 Like Pantoja, he's a bad motherfucker. I would have loved to see Alexandre Pantoja versus Mighty Mouse in their prime.
Pantoja is a fucking animal, man. That guy's a fucking animal.

Speaker 3 There's a guy coming up in 125.

Speaker 3 He fought in the last pay-per-view in London. His last name is Kamana in 125.
He's going to be a problem in that division. He is a very skillful fighter.

Speaker 1 Well, I think like all weight classes,

Speaker 1 now... you have the best fighters of all time

Speaker 1 because we see guys from the Dana White Contender series now that are coming along

Speaker 1 that enter into the UFC for their first fight. And you see these guys like, Jesus Christ, this guy looks like he has 15 pro fights in the UFC.
They look elite.

Speaker 3 That's a cool program, also, a Dana White Contender Series. That's something cool because they have some story behind them before they get to the UFC.

Speaker 3 And that's cool. And actually,

Speaker 3 they make a good

Speaker 3 matchmaking also for that fight.

Speaker 3 I like to see sometimes Dana White Contender series over then some fight nights.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you get to see guys. Well, that's where we found Sugar Sean O'Malley.
You get to see guys.

Speaker 1 I prefer that to the ultimate fighter. Because I don't want to watch all the in-the-house bullshit and all the games that they play.
I don't care about all that. I don't care.

Speaker 3 I just want to see him fight. Not anymore.
But before it was very entertaining.

Speaker 1 In the beginning. Yeah.
In the early days. But

Speaker 1 now they're on like season 2000. Like, who fucking, there's been so many seasons.
Like, I can't even keep track. I forget who won.
You know, there's so many seasons.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 my point is that the caliber of new guys when they're just entering the, like, Mauricio Ruffi, perfect example. Yeah.
You see this guy first fight in the UFC. He's a lightweight, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's fucking huge.

Speaker 1 You see this guy first fight in the UFC. You're like, whoa,

Speaker 1 this guy is elite already. You know, same thing with Jean Silva.
Elite already. Like, these guys, they're entering into the sport at a very...
Carlos Prates, same thing. Like, right away.

Speaker 1 like you're seeing like a very high level right away and I just think that because there's so many guys like you to watch there's so many guys like you know Hamzad and all these people you get to see elite talent

Speaker 1 so these young fighters that are coming up they have a higher level than before they are yeah a higher level to aspire to That's true.

Speaker 3 Now, like, the sport is growing.

Speaker 3 The talents are better than before. Yeah.
Because the sport has developed so much that right now you have so much experience. You can learn so much about the game.
Like, even in YouTube.

Speaker 3 You go on YouTube, you can learn everything by yourself.

Speaker 1 I think in the future, guys like you will be everywhere. There will be only guys like you at World Championship level.
I don't think there'll be any specialists anymore.

Speaker 1 I think there'll be guys who are elite everywhere. Everywhere.

Speaker 3 This is

Speaker 3 what I was saying

Speaker 3 all the time.

Speaker 3 Now it's time for the new generation. What's the new generation that if you wanna wanna be the best, you have to be the best in everywhere

Speaker 3 the fight takes the place. And the ground and the wrestling and the striking.
You have to be good everywhere because that's how the sport is developing right now.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 before you were good only in wrestling, you would take people down and no problem,

Speaker 3 you could become a world champion. But right now, so tough, so tough.
The competition all the time is higher and higher and higher. And there's more knowledge in the sport.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there really is.

Speaker 1 It's very inspiring, and it's very interesting because there's no other sport where you could go back and look at it from 1993 to 2025, and it's almost like a completely different sport.

Speaker 1 The athletes are so much better than they were. I mean, even from like 2000.
Go back to 2000 and watch the sport and then watch it it today, at least in the UFC.

Speaker 3 It changed a lot.

Speaker 3 Everything.

Speaker 1 In the production. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Everything. Changed everything.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it's so interesting because it's the one sport also that translates.

Speaker 1 It translates to all languages. Like, everybody understands it.

Speaker 3 But the UK is so special because you saw the sport growing since nothing and you saw so many great fights in front of of you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm very lucky, man. Yeah, that's...
I feel very fortunate.

Speaker 3 But what about you?

Speaker 3 Do you have a plan where you want to retire or you are just enjoying and you love what you're doing? Because

Speaker 3 I think that it's a, I don't know, you are enjoying a lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just enjoy it. I don't think about retiring.
No. No.
If Dana White quits, I might quit. But that's it.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's actually in my contract.

Speaker 3 No. Yeah, if he leaves, I leave.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so in my contract, if he leaves, I don't have to stay.

Speaker 3 Why that?

Speaker 3 Something personal?

Speaker 1 I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah? Yeah, he's my friend.
He talked me into doing it. I mean, I started working for the UFC before him.
I started working for the UFC in 1997

Speaker 1 when it was nothing.

Speaker 1 Nobody was watching. We did it at

Speaker 1 a small, like a high school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama. You had to take a propeller plane to get there.
Like,

Speaker 1 those looking scary ass planes. And that was the first time Vitor fought.
Okay. I was actually training at the same gym as Vitor when Vitor made his debut.
Vitor was 19 years old.

Speaker 1 And we were at Carlson Gracie's gym.

Speaker 3 You started very young.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. We were at Carlson Gracie's gym in Hollywood, Hollywood, California.
That's where I was training.

Speaker 1 Dumb luck. I was a white belt.
I just started. So

Speaker 3 how old were you when you started training or you had some relationship with the sport?

Speaker 1 Well, jiu-jitsu? Well, martial arts, I started when I was 15. Well, I started when I was 14, but really seriously when I was 15.

Speaker 1 And then I competed in Taekwondo from 15 to 21 and then I kickboxed until I was 22 and then I was doing comedy at the same time and then I realized like I

Speaker 3 said something crazy about you is when I hear you explaining some positions I'm like this guy has to know how to fight how to do it because the way he is explaining it I couldn't be able to to explain it and I'm a

Speaker 3 world champion. I know the game, but you explain like way better than anyone else.
I think that you put 10 world champions together, you still explain it much better than all of us.

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
Well, I learned how to explain it because I learned how to teach people that didn't know what was happening once it went to the ground, right?

Speaker 1 Because in the beginning, nobody understood the ground game. Exactly.
You know, and I'm a black belt in jiu-jitsu, so when it goes to the ground, I can explain what's happening.

Speaker 3 Very specific.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're very specific. Well, you have to be specific because some people don't know.
Like, sometimes I'll be watching with my wife at home.

Speaker 1 Like, we watch a fights that I'm not calling, and she's like, What's going on? And I'd be like, His right arm is in trouble right now. Like, see, see what, see where his elbow is?

Speaker 1 Now, if he can get his elbow past this point, he's fucked. I'm like, okay, now he's fucked.
And then

Speaker 1 I would explain it. And I would say, now what he's going to do, he's going to take his right leg, he's going to wrap it over the top.
Oh, he's got it. Oh, he's got it.
Okay.

Speaker 1 He's going to cinch the left leg over the top. That's it.
That's it. He's fucked.
You're the best. Yeah, but that's.
It's just, I, it's, you can't

Speaker 1 give it passion. Yeah.
Either you love it or you don't love it. Yeah.
And if you don't love it, you can't pretend. It won't work.
No one's going to believe you.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're just a regular sports guy, say like you call hockey and they hire you, you're going to learn about MMA and you're going to call MMA.

Speaker 1 Come on. Come on.
There's no, you're not going to be able to do it right. Of course.
Because you got to do it like you. Like if I was calling hockey, I'm like, yay, this fucking puck went in the net.

Speaker 1 Woo. I don't give a shit.
I don't give a shit if the puck goes in the net. It doesn't mean anything to me.
But when someone gets your fucking neck,

Speaker 1 fucking shit shirt and you see the guy's going to tap. He's taping.

Speaker 1 That to me is life. That's everything.
That is like, it's not just winning. You're not just winning.
You killed that guy.

Speaker 3 We can say that. I promise you.
We can see your passion every time.

Speaker 3 Like even right now I'm here. I feel your passion.

Speaker 1 It's the way I say it.

Speaker 3 I feel your passion. Like you're passionate about what you're doing.
And that's something that I admire people like you.

Speaker 1 Well, I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel that way. I don't have to do it.
I don't do it for money. I just do it.
I mean, this is the only person I work for is the UFC. Everything else I do for myself.

Speaker 1 Everything I work for myself. I'm self-employed except for the UFC.
But I've been working for them for 20

Speaker 1 three years? Yeah, 23 years. 23 years.
Yeah. And then before that, I did it two years before that.
So it's 25 years total.

Speaker 3 And when was the moment, maybe I'm going like too deep, but I wanted to ask you this:

Speaker 3 when was the moment when you feel like I'm succeeding in life? I feel that I'm having success. And what's for you actually success? Like, how do you describe it?

Speaker 1 Well, I guess the moments when I didn't worry about success anymore. I don't think about success.
I think about what do I enjoy doing and am I doing it the best that I can do it?

Speaker 1 That's what I think about. I don't think, oh, I'm going to make more money.
Oh, I'm going to do this. And now I want to do, I want this goal and that goal.
I'm a...

Speaker 1 process-oriented person. I think about the process of what I'm doing and then the results results come.
So I think, like, what am I doing? Am I doing it the best that I can do it?

Speaker 1 And if I'm not, I better. I better either quit if I don't want to do it anymore.
Like, that's why I stopped fighting. I was, there was no money in fighting when I was fighting.
There was no money.

Speaker 1 There was no UFC and I was just getting brain damage for no reason. And I was really,

Speaker 1 I was sparring and having fucking headaches every night. I was like, what am I doing with my life? And then I would also meet guys in the gym that were punch drunk.

Speaker 1 And those guys scared the shit out of me. Because back then, everybody was stupid too.
And like in, you know, this is 1989. Everybody was stupid.
They just beat the fuck out of each other.

Speaker 1 They didn't, there was no like sparring,

Speaker 1 you know, like technical sparring. It was just wars.
It was just fights, always fights. Got you.
And there was no future.

Speaker 3 It's still like that in some gyms.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a lot of gyms. A lot of gyms.
You know, some gyms are intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms that are stupid.

Speaker 3 I don't used to spar at all.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't spar. Only in training camps.

Speaker 1 But I see you spar in training camps. So it's only in training camps.

Speaker 3 Only in training camps.

Speaker 1 So when you're not in camp, what do you do?

Speaker 3 I do like, as I told you, Spannings maybe in boxing, but

Speaker 3 before I used to go like more crazy than now, before, because before I had like more ego,

Speaker 3 I wanted to prove myself, like, I can knock you out. I can submit you.
I can do this.

Speaker 3 But once

Speaker 3 you're winning fights,

Speaker 3 you're growing as a person, You're like, I don't need to prove anything here in the gym. I know what I'm able to do.

Speaker 3 And the competition is the day when I have to pie, the fight, that's the day when I'm getting paid and that's it. I'm not going to

Speaker 3 damage anyone no more. Because

Speaker 3 sometimes you knock people out and then you go back home and you feel bad.

Speaker 3 You're like, hmm.

Speaker 3 I could not doing it. Right.
And he's suffering right now.

Speaker 3 I sent so much people to the hospital so much people to the hospital i'm sure i've seen a few people broken eyes opened yeah so much damage that right now i'm like no no no sometimes people comes to me like let's part i'm like

Speaker 3 i recommend you to know

Speaker 1 i recommend you to not

Speaker 1 yeah that's good advice Yeah, it's interesting, right?

Speaker 1 It's like your ego can help you because your ego is what makes you want to be great, but at a certain point in time, you got to put a leash on it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to say, not not right now, motherfucker. When I let you go, when I say sick'em, then I'm going to let you off that leash, but not right now.
And like, that's...

Speaker 1 Marcelo Garcia always used to say that about jiu-jitsu, that you have to open up your game in the gym and don't be afraid of it being tapped. He goes, you got to be open.

Speaker 1 You got to take chances in the gym and learn. And put yourself in bad positions on purpose.
And

Speaker 1 you might lose training sessions, but that's not what's important. What's important is growing.

Speaker 3 I see a lot of guys struggling with that, like they don't want to lose in training.

Speaker 1 Well, a lot of guys never develop a guard because they never want to be on their back.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of guys like that, they have no fucking guard,

Speaker 1 which is crazy. It's crazy.
There's black belts out there that you get them on their back, they look like a turtle because they don't want to lose.

Speaker 3 Exactly. They don't know how to lose.
Like, if you top out, no problem. You get better.

Speaker 1 Like, yes.

Speaker 3 I don't put myself in this position.

Speaker 1 But that's the fascinating dance of the mind that allows someone to become a champion versus someone to become just a good fighter.

Speaker 1 Like, whether you can figure that out, like, when to put your ego on a leash and when to be able to look at yourself objectively.

Speaker 1 Like, what you're doing with separating all of your disciplines, I think is very important.

Speaker 1 I think that's a very interesting way that you put it because I think it's a very intelligent way to approach it.

Speaker 1 Like, get very good at your boxing, get very good at your Muay Thai, get very good at your jiu-jitsu, but do it differently. Do it separately.

Speaker 3 Like, every week, every Sunday, I sit down and I do my schedule by myself. Like,

Speaker 3 on Monday, I'm going to do boxing a day from this hour to this. Then, I'm going to do afternoon.

Speaker 1 And how do you decide what you're going to do?

Speaker 3 It depends on how I feel,

Speaker 3 what I want to do.

Speaker 1 What do you want to work on?

Speaker 3 And what I want to work on. And where I feel like I have to develop something, what I want to do,

Speaker 3 what do I feel in reality. It's not like all the time,

Speaker 3 I'm going to do this because I have to do it. No, I don't have to do anything.
I choose to do it because I enjoy it.

Speaker 3 Every time I go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do it because I feel forced.
Sometimes in training camp, yes, I feel forced because I feel tired. I don't have food in my body.

Speaker 3 I don't have any energy. And I have to do it because I'm forced.
But outside the training camp, I enjoy it. Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep training like that.

Speaker 3 Because that's something that I enjoy. And you said something very interesting before that.

Speaker 3 Like, right now, I'm

Speaker 3 in the moment of my life where everything I do, I do it because I enjoy it. I don't do anything to make

Speaker 3 anyone happy.

Speaker 3 I don't live a life dreaming to have another one. I just enjoy the moment I'm living right now.

Speaker 1 That's so important. That is so important.
It's so important to be satisfied with your life. So important to just

Speaker 1 live in the moment. It's so hard for people to do.
It's so hard for people to do, especially if you've fucked off too many times. You just like made too many mistakes and slacked off and lazy.

Speaker 3 This is the best moment we have right now. Right now.
This is the best moment. This is who we are.
Yeah, it is. It is.
No one knows what's going to happen tomorrow.

Speaker 1 And you know what's really important? Hearing a guy like you say this, hearing a guy like you say this to young people out there that are listening. They're just not sure how to approach life.

Speaker 1 Because the way you think about life and the way you decide to approach life can change the whole direction of your future. 100%.
100%. And so.

Speaker 1 A young guy is probably listening.

Speaker 1 Guaranteed there are people, not just one, many young people are listening to you talk right now.

Speaker 3 i'm sure that's many people could come to you like joe tell me the secret yeah there are no secret there's no bottom for the elevator exactly everything in life you get step by step the slowest the fastest way to get where you want to be i was talking to david goggins about that you know david goggins is yeah of course fucking maniac david goggins said there's no finish line He's like, it never ends.

Speaker 1 Like, it never ends. It never ends.
You never make it. You ever feel like you make it? I'm like, you never make it.
There's no making it. It's

Speaker 1 One day you don't think about it anymore and you just, every day you're just trying to get better. Of course.
And if you don't feel like that, it's not fun.

Speaker 1 If you're not really trying to do something difficult and aspire to greatness and just trying to do your best all the time, you don't have satisfaction in your life.

Speaker 3 100%.

Speaker 3 With everything. Some people think that like...

Speaker 3 You accomplish something and that's going to make you happy. That's bullshit.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, I think also there's the poison of social media because social media poisons people to think that one day I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be like Connor McGregor driving my yacht around.

Speaker 1 Like, those videos are so bad for you. Those videos of people like, look at me, look at my watch, look at my diamonds, look at this, look at my house,

Speaker 1 look at these girls. Don't you wish you were me?

Speaker 3 Everyone is showing you the best part of their life.

Speaker 3 No one is gonna show you how they are struggling, the problems they are facing in a daily basis. I mean, like, no one is going to show you that.

Speaker 3 No one's going to show you, look, I have a pimple here in my face. No, I'm going to use a filter to

Speaker 1 hide that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's not good. It's not good for young people, that's for sure, because they aspire to all the wrong things.
You ask young people today what do they want? Most of them just want to be famous.

Speaker 3 They want to be famous and they think that... Money makes them rich.
And you skills make you rich, not the money.

Speaker 3 If you don't have the skills and you don't have the mindset, you're going to keep poor all the time.

Speaker 1 Not only that, you're not going to have the satisfaction of knowing you got really good at something. No.

Speaker 1 There's something about getting really good at something that gives you a deep satisfaction that's not available anywhere else.

Speaker 1 If you just win the lottery, those are the most depressed people in the world. They all go broke.

Speaker 1 They win the lottery and then everybody wants money from them and then they feel empty and hollow and they don't know what to do with themselves and now they don't have any goals because they have a hundred million dollars in the bank.

Speaker 1 They don't know what the fuck to do.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but in reality, they don't have any ability. They don't have nothing to enjoy with.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 I say that success comes from not worrying about money. Success doesn't come from making a lot of money.
Success comes from.

Speaker 1 Now I don't have to think about that. Money is not the thing.
Now I think about what am I doing? What am I doing? I want to be the best parent I can be. I want to be the best friend that I can be.

Speaker 1 I want to be everything I do. I want to do it to the best of my abilities.

Speaker 3 Becoming the best person you could be.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the best person you could be.

Speaker 1 When I was a a kid, my martial arts instructor told me this that I'll never forget, and I say it all the time. Martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.

Speaker 1 Through that struggle, through that difficult thing, you will learn how to be better at everything.

Speaker 1 100%. 100%.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 That's what I think life is about. And that's why martial arts are so exciting to me.
You know, people think, oh, you like violence. You like this.
Like, that's not it.

Speaker 1 That's why I don't like slap fighting. I think it's stupid.
You stand in front of each other, smack each other in the head.

Speaker 1 I want to see a guy enter into a cage fully prepared with skills against another guy fully prepared with skills. I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular, as

Speaker 1 high-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences. That's what it is.
It's problem-solving with dire physical consequences.

Speaker 3 That's so cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's what it is. People, most of the time, they didn't understand what's behind a fighting game.
It's not like only violence. You have to prepare yourself.
You have to be smart.

Speaker 3 You have to be you have to work smar smarter than the the other guy you you're gonna face. There's so much factors that it's gonna

Speaker 3 play out that that day. It's so much sacrifices that someone has to make before getting in in inside that octagon.
It's not only fighting.

Speaker 3 It's more than that.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't it's

Speaker 3 I love that you know most of the people before they used to see fighting as something very violent in in spain they hate it right now it's becoming bigger and bigger and bigger and they're starting to love that

Speaker 3 and i and i saw that since the day i started because i used to say to the people like 10 years ago in spain what you doing i'm fighting ah Don't do that.

Speaker 3 Start learning something.

Speaker 3 Start studying. I'm like, I'm starting.

Speaker 3 Everyone chooses a career in his life. Someone wants to be a doctor.
Someone wants to be a constructor. Someone wants to be this or that.
I want to be a fighter.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I have to learn to be a fighter also.

Speaker 1 But by your example, by being a true champion and by living the way you live and by performing the way you perform, you will change people's opinions.

Speaker 1 And they will see it and they will say, oh, this is different. This is not what I thought it was.
This is something special. I think so.
For sure, brother. For sure.

Speaker 1 It's in the cards. Well, listen, my friend, thank you very much for being here.
I appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan, and I can't wait to see you inside the octagon again.

Speaker 1 And uh, all the best, Joe.

Speaker 3 Thank you very much, brother.

Speaker 1 It's been a big pleasure for me. It's going to be thank you very much.
All right, bye, everybody.