#2332 - Oz Pearlman

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

The Joe Rogan experience.

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Oh, yep.

Surreal.

Dude, you've only been here for 20 minutes.

You already freaked me out.

Joe's freaked out.

And I'm freaked out with the fact that you're the first guy that's ever come here that ran a marathon

before you got here.

You know, wanted to clear my mind.

It's a big day.

How long did it take you to run it?

You got to check online.

I don't know.

I think it was like three hours, 25 minutes, 3.30, something like that.

Wow, that's a good time for you.

Went kind of southeast, thunderstorming in Austin, Texas, and then looped around, went back, got some work done.

I always do phone calls while I'm running.

How often do you run?

You said you ran 27 miles this morning?

I think so.

I don't know.

I just turned around.

I got it done.

I need to get ready for this shower.

But yeah.

Is that a normal thing for you to do?

Very normal.

Wow.

That's crazy.

That's a lot of distance, man.

You know, there was like a sweet spot pre-having as many kids and more family constraints and work and now life is busy, but where I do 20 miles every day.

That's crazy.

Like, what's the longest you've run?

153 miles.

Wow.

How long did it take you to do that?

33 hours.

Spartathlon in Greece.

Epic.

It's in Greece.

Oh, it's crazy, man.

You run from Athens to Sparta.

This race is amazing.

Have you ever seen the movie 300 with Drudd Butler?

Sure.

So that's the story.

A couple couple of crazy dudes in the 80s decided that they're going to recreate where he ran, Phidipides, to deliver the message.

Because in that movie, you remember 300 Spartans defended against the Persian masses, and they frame it as the difference between us having civilization and not.

Had those 300 guys not died while they assembled an army and he delivered that message to King Leonidas?

So when you finish this race, if you finish, it's one of the hardest races in the world.

Like there's Badwater, you know, Goggins, mutual buddy of ours.

But there's races they say are the hardest.

This one kicked my butt.

First year.

It's because of the elevation?

What is it?

It's because Europe does not believe in ice.

So there's nothing cold for the first 50 miles.

You're hot, and then the cutoffs are much stricter.

So at 50 miles, you have to be done.

You got to fact check this, but nine or 10 hours.

So you have to finish 153 miles in under 36 hours.

You need to be running at all times.

You can't walk for two hours and start throwing up, which I was puking for eight hours straight the first time I did it.

Still, excuses.

This is me just bitching.

I should have finished that year.

I wasn't mentally tough, but 100% that year, I just didn't have it mentally.

And the next year, I came back ready to die.

I was like, I'm going to finish this race.

Yeah.

There was a guy in the middle of the night, I won't kid you, who looked at me and he says to me, there it is.

He goes to me with like crazy eyes.

And I've already given up in my mind.

You know,

like they call it DNFing, did not finish in ultras.

I already wrote the speech of like, I'm going to tell my friends I learned from this, you know, all that, all that stuff of like, I already gave up in my mind.

And I saw this guy at my, I don't know, like 72, middle of the night, who looks at me with these crazy eyes.

I'll never forget his looks, crazy eyes, like that, but a hundred times more.

And goes, you're going to give up?

He goes, if you can't run, you walk.

You can't walk, you crawl.

You never, ever.

And I was like, yo, man, this guy needs to chill out right now because I've already quit in my mind.

But I channeled that guy when I came back the next year.

And it was that.

It was, I'm going to the hospital and you're not putting IV.

I'm going to finish this race.

And I came back the next year mentally like, there's no way I'm not finishing.

Did you do anything different in preparation?

Listen, it's mental.

That's all game.

It's all mental.

Anyone who tells you otherwise, physical is meaningless at that point.

Physical is meaningless in most points, to be honest.

There were guys who I saw when I quit.

It was, you know, 2 a.m., who were slower than me.

They were older than me.

Every objective measure, I should have beat them, but they mentally finished.

The next morning, I got a night's sleep, woke up, watched them, ate lunch, and saw them finish.

I was like, I was crying.

I couldn't believe the emotions of this guy finished, who was two hours behind me when I quit.

And I learned that day, it's mental, 100%.

The mindset is when you get there, you know if you're finishing at the start.

So did it haunt you that you didn't finish?

Oh, haunted me every day.

Isn't that crazy?

Haunted.

Like, what you did was really hard, but you know, that's bullshit hard.

I should have finished.

How far did you get?

I got halfway.

So that's pretty hard.

No, I didn't.

75 miles?

This, I quit when it was convenient because I got to an aid station and I'm like, oh, you know, I got 30 minutes on the, I already already decided in my mind I was quitting.

But hold on.

I got to pause because I walked in here and I told you, before we start, I have something for you.

Right.

Right.

People say, can I read minds?

I can't read minds.

I read people.

Okay.

This envelope, if they can't see it and they're listening, your logo sealed.

Right.

This is your future.

My future?

This is your future.

I'm not psychic.

I'm not supernatural, but I assure you, I want you to hold this from now.

Until the end of the episode.

Okay.

That's when we open it.

I don't even know if I want to know my future.

No, no, this is all good stuff.

Live to 120.

Joe's going to be a two-term president.

You know, you know,

fuck up.

That's not good.

I don't want that job.

You take it before we even start.

Okay.

And at the end, we open it.

So nobody skips this episode.

You buckle up for the ending.

I'm here.

People will just fast forward.

They'll fast forward.

They'll miss all the good stuff in the middle.

The quitters.

The quitters.

The people who did not finish Spartathlon.

So that's insanely impressive, though, that you run that much.

When did you start doing this?

My sister ran a marathon.

Shout out to my older sister, and there's a little bit of sibling rivalry.

She's eight years older.

I have twin sisters.

And do you remember when marathoning became like commonplace?

Before you say anything, I have to shout out to my sister.

She, because she got upset that I didn't shout her out before, because she ran Burt Kreischer's 5K.

She's like, I can't believe you didn't shout me out.

Sorry, sweetie.

Well played.

Well played.

Yeah, she's the best.

They all are, right?

So my sister ran it and Everyone at a certain point marathoning became like a thing.

Do you remember when Oprah ran one?

And then everyone's like, I'm running a marathon.

I didn't pay attention.

Yeah, but there was like a moment where the zeitgeist, everyone started running marathons.

This was before.

I believe you.

Yeah.

But I wasn't tuned into that frequency.

I was, when my sister said she's running 26.2 miles, if she had told me, this is not that she's not fit.

She was like a collegiate D1 athlete, swimmer.

I'm like, what do you, if she had said, I'm going to the moon, it would have been equal of like, what do you mean you're running a marathon?

And so when she did it, I immediately that day signed up for a marathon just to be like, no, screw that.

I'm not, I'm not not doing this.

Right.

And I was working on Wall Street.

I was kind of getting fat and lazy, happy hours.

And I go, this is all there is.

Like, I'm just going to keep, I'm making money.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm blessed.

But I got to have something that fires me up.

That's my instinct.

And so I signed up for a marathon.

What year was this?

2004.

Okay.

And then I did one, Philly Marathon, you know, the Rocky, the whole thing.

And at mile 23, I start, I stop and I'm like crying.

Again, this is a common theme.

I've cried like twice in my life.

My wife will ask the same, but I was wrecked.

I was going to quit.

I see two dudes walking because I'm going decently fast at this point.

I've trained terribly.

I see two dudes walking about 100 yards ahead of me and I go, misery loves company.

I'm going to walk up and I'm going to catch them.

But they're walking the same speed as me.

So I decide, screw it.

I'm going to run to them.

I run.

I get about halfway there.

Do you know what they do?

They looked at each other and they started running.

And I literally screamed at them.

I go, fuck you.

Like, I, and I got fired up.

And I learned that day anger is a great like

incentive.

It's like something to fire up.

And I got so pissed off that my blood pressure that I ran the rest of the race.

You know, Goggins takes all of his haters' comments and he records them and then plays it back to him while he runs.

Oh, I know David well.

I've known David going on like 15 years, man.

Before Goggins became Goggins, I've seen the whole come up.

Where'd you meet him?

So we trained for ultra-marathons together.

He used to live in New York City.

Oh, wow.

And we'd go out there and, you know, he's shirtless.

And this is before, now, man, he can't go anywhere.

He's just, it's like next level.

He still runs on the street.

He runs, but man, he's, he's like, that's such a fame that's, you know, we've talked about, but it's, he's, he's, I mean, he's inspired countless millions.

Oh, for sure.

But you see,

I don't know what your version is, but like somebody sees me, I just get like, oh, hey, love what you do.

That's it.

You know, maybe a selfie.

That's it.

Occasionally, some drunk asshole is like, read my mind right now.

And I'm like, all right, all right, all right, buddy, I'll do it.

I'll do it.

You know, I don't want to leave somebody behind.

But his is someone comes up and you have to, you changed my life.

Like, I didn't kill myself or my brother.

Like, that's, that's a religious level fervor.

Yeah, no, for sure.

I've been around him when I've seen it happen.

Yeah.

Yeah, he runs on the street.

He was running on the street in Vegas.

My wife was in the car.

She rolled down the window and yelled out, stay hard.

Second time he's ever heard that, right?

Who's going to carry the boats?

All day long is people yelling, stay hard.

Stay hard.

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Takovas, point your toes west.

west.

The memes that people have put together are just those videos.

And he's got a great sense of humor, which people don't realize.

He's got a great sense of humor.

He's a fun dude.

He's a really fun guy, man.

Love that guy.

Yeah, he's a fun dude.

He's just very fucking serious

about pushing himself.

Did you see the video of him and Israel Adesanya?

Yeah.

Yeah, it was crazy.

Like Israel Adesanya's world-class athlete, world championship fighter.

Yeah.

Cannot compete, can't keep up with this 50-year-old man.

Who was the other one?

Was it John Jones?

Who was the other one he trained?

Tony First.

Tony, Tony, who's like cardio is through the roof.

I mean, Tony was like, that guy, five rounds, it's just insane.

Never, never gases out.

Yep.

Yeah.

He might have overtrained.

He might have.

Goggins ran through the washer right.

Well, it would have been interesting if he got a hold of Tony when Tony was in his prime.

You know, he got a hold of Tony when Tony was at the end of his career, essentially.

Yeah.

You know.

Well, I mean, that's always it, right?

Judge the fighter at the prime.

Well, yeah, and absolutely.

And with fighters, you know, there's just, especially natural fighters that aren't taking any steroids or anything.

When it gets to a certain point in time, the game is over.

That's just how it is.

Right?

Time is undefeated.

Time's undefeated.

But fucking Gargans, almost 50, still out there doing it.

And he's been injured so many times.

Not just injured.

People need to understand the mental strength.

And we've talked about it on the podcast before we showed his x-rays.

Yep.

The work that he's had done on his knees.

I mean, it's all insane.

It's insane.

They do experimental stuff on his knees.

Right.

His knees are destroyed.

I mean, they must be.

Yeah, they're destroyed.

They're complete bone on bone, and he just keeps running on them.

It's just like, okay.

He cross-trains, though.

I mean, the dude, like, the pull-up record, his hands, Cam Haines son, right?

Truitt?

I just saw that.

Man, what a stud that kid is.

I've been watching him.

Ship off the old boy.

I follow him.

He is.

I never met him, but man,

that consistency and that putting that together.

And yeah, very impressive.

I don't know.

I've known him since he was a kid.

So to me, it's fun to watch him become a man and then become this beast.

Beast.

Yeah, it's amazing.

I mean, he did, I think it was, was it 9,000 chin-ups in 24 hours or 10 years?

10 more.

I think it was a long time.

9,000 was the record.

10,001.

Right.

I'm good.

9,000 was the record, and he got to 10,000.

So he broke the record first, and then some cat in Australia broke the record, beat his record, and then he just demolished that guy's record.

And then I saw his thing, which was a flex, which reminded me of something I did, which was like one of the highlight moments in my running career, which is he goes, I got another personal best in the same week at a marathon.

And so he ran, so I one time did two marathons a week apart, like six days apart.

I did New Jersey marathon.

I won it.

And then the next week I did Long Island Marathon and I got clipped by some college runner who beat me in the last like quarter of a mile.

Damn, you won a marathon?

I won that one four times in a row.

Yeah.

That's insane.

What's the time?

My fast time is at 223.

Two hours and 23 minutes for a fucking marathon?

Yeah, I love Goggins, but every race we've run against each other, I beat them.

Well, you have two knees.

That's insane.

That's world-class.

I mean,

it's like a fast for a weekend warrior.

Mike Clayton.

You won't be in 23 minutes?

One year at the New York City Marathon.

I want to remember this.

I got 30th place, but at my shows, I tell people I was the fastest Jew.

That's all that mattered.

That's all.

Fastest Jew.

All that mattered.

That's super impressive that you win marathons.

Well, I won that one, and then six days later, six or seven, I did this other one, and I got beat by this kid who was like 22.

I don't care how old I was, 30s.

And he beat me and he fell and collapsed at the finish.

And I'm like, again, I'm pretty fresh.

And he goes, oh, my God, man.

He goes, he goes, is that your personal best?

And I'll never forget looking in his eyes.

And this guy's wrecked.

And I go, bro, that's not my personal best this week.

And it was just, it was just the most fulfilling thing to say for not having won.

But I'd run literally a week earlier faster.

So I, oh, that was a great moment.

Yeah, but he beat you.

He did beat me.

True.

First loser.

It's a weird flex.

Yeah.

It's a weird flex.

So you were a stockbroker?

I wasn't technically a stockbroker.

stockbroker i worked on wall street but i what did you do on wall street tech so i went to school for electrical engineering and then worked like i don't know the tech guys who supported the ibankers okay and then how did you get involved in this mentalist thing this mentalist thing right what a weird thing so when i was a teenager i started doing magic tricks So I saw a guy on a cruise ship and I'd never seen really a magician.

I wasn't into it, didn't know about it, didn't have a kids' party magician when I was a kid.

And I was obsessed.

Literally, I was on a cruise.

I followed this guy around the cruise ship.

It was a little bit stalker-esque.

And there's not that many places to hide if you're a grown man.

So I was finding this guy everywhere to just see more tricks.

And I got back home and I bought every book I could at Borders.

I went to the library.

I was obsessive.

I'm kind of those types of people who I don't do anything 80%, 90% given the running today.

It's like 120%.

Wow.

And that was the thing for about, I don't know, 20 years.

It was more.

I was doing magic.

I was always doing magic on the side.

I paid for college doing magic.

Really?

Run a couple of businesses.

Yeah.

What did you do?

Like do shows?

So I graduated high school when I was 16.

I like skipped a grade, all this.

And then my folks got divorced.

Long story.

And they moved back to Israel.

I was born in Israel.

So separately moved back to Israel.

So I was a bit of a, I guess, I don't know, an adult.

Like I had nobody supporting me.

So when I went to college, I turned 17.

I had to pay all the bills.

Whoa.

Yeah.

So

I was doing magic at restaurants.

I've been doing magic at restaurants for like 30 years.

And that's where I learned how to read people, just how to go up to a table of people who are like, who's this twerp?

Like, who's this nerdy kid with braces?

Like, what are you doing here?

Get out of here.

And how do you win them over quickly?

And that's honestly the biggest skill is how do you, in sales, read people effectively?

Right?

That's what I'm selling.

I'm selling the thought of reading your mind.

Now, did you learn the techniques from books?

Did you take classes?

No classes.

Books and videos.

Did magic.

And so mentalism.

is kind of a field.

Like you had David Blaine in here, right?

Legend.

Yeah.

And growing up, like icon.

So magic tricks are different because magic is, there's sleight of hand, right?

So you're deceiving your eye by making you look at the wrong place at the right time when I do a move.

And I can practice that move over and over and over until I get it perfect so that when I perform for you, it works, right?

Okay.

Stand-up comedy, the most pure art form, right?

You and a mic, that's it.

Mine is the closest.

Magic, you have props.

Mentalism, there's no props.

Like, I don't need you to pick a card anymore.

I don't need it.

I can just tell you, think of a card.

And that's where I go with it.

So now you start knowing how people think.

And you, in essence, reverse engineer the human mind.

It's kind of like magic of the mind.

And so that's where it kind of went from magic.

And I kept doing more of the mentalism, more of it.

But mentalism has a very steep learning curve.

If you go to an open mic and you suck, how many people get to the level of getting better, getting better, putting in the work?

It takes 10 years to be funny for most people, right?

There's a couple phenoms, but that's a different story.

So most mentalists, they drop off because I'm just going to go back to magic tricks.

This works every time.

Hmm.

So it's more difficult to learn.

Way more difficult.

Is it sheltered?

Like, is the material on it difficult to find?

I think it's more that people don't have the thick skin.

Like the same way you said the quitting mentality where I came back the year later, most people won't improve because you can't practice mentalism in front of a mirror.

You can practice magic.

So when I do the trick on you and it's a card trick, no offense to magic, it's great, but what we're talking about is a much higher level.

I can't get it right.

And the first few times you do it, the first hundred times, you eat, you know, you eat shit like you're going to get it wrong.

And most people don't want to do that.

Watch, watch.

Let's try something fun.

Okay.

Okay.

How about this?

If I were to ask you, how long you've been married?

16 years?

Okay, nailed that question.

Well, well played.

Thank you.

Your sister's happy, your wife's happy.

If I asked you, would your wife know your social security number?

No.

She doesn't know it.

No.

So is there any way in the world I could know your social security number?

I don't think so.

Right, you say I'm a stalker who knows.

Yeah, you could have got the information.

Maybe.

Online.

Agreed.

Agreed.

I'm skeptical.

You're skeptical.

Well, especially someone famous.

Yeah.

Fully.

Plus, you can't change that.

So I'm not going to do that to you.

Dated dumps.

Yeah.

If I told you right now to make up a random number, I'd say, get out your calculator.

I'd love that.

And you add it up and you do a random number.

You know, I'm screwed calculate.

I want it to be spontaneous.

Would your wife know your ATM PIN code?

No.

No.

Lie to me.

Do not tell me your real ATM PIN code.

Okay.

Obviously, unless you want to.

Make up a fake four-digit number off the top of your head, what feels to you utterly spontaneous.

When I say go, one, two, three, four-digit code, random, go.

Okay.

Say it.

2020.

2020.

Okay.

So you ask me, how do I do what I do?

I'm going to write down 2020.

Okay.

It's weird, but statistically, men will lie bigger, women smaller.

Men like fly by saying things are bigger, right?

No shocker.

Okay.

So I don't think I would tell you right off the jump for me that that means that your first number, you don't have to say anything yet.

I wrote 2020 is smaller.

That's what most people do when they're rushed.

If I had given you five minutes, you would have done this different.

No, I wouldn't have.

No, you would have.

Why would I have?

Because you would have thought about it, and then people go down a different path.

Nope.

No.

Nope.

Okay.

Worked out for me either way.

You'll be honest if I'm right.

Okay.

I got a hit, which means it's a zero or one.

I think the first number of your code is a one, isn't it?

Your real pin code.

My ATM.

ATM pin code.

Why would I tell you that on the air?

Should I only show this to you?

Sure.

Only show it to you.

Yeah.

Can we acquiesce that the first number I got was correct?

Yes.

Okay.

Now, you did repetition.

So I like the fact when people always say to me it's fake when they watch the videos.

They're like, you must have set up.

Joe doesn't even want this to happen right now.

He had no idea this was going to happen.

You used two numbers in repeats.

What that means is you probably did the same thing.

You also didn't use any of the same numbers.

I know there's not a two, a zero, or two in it.

I don't think so either.

And I'm watching you while I say it.

You put the hand up.

You might as well have said yes to me out loud.

So now I know.

Think of the second number.

Okay.

Third number, fourth number.

Every time you did it, it's a data point.

Okay.

I'm only going to ask you one more question.

I'm not looking for answers.

The last number is the biggest, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm showing this to you.

Is there a camera behind me?

I don't want to make sure I'm only going to show it to you.

I have this one on.

It's not 2020.

How'd I do, Joe?

Is that your ATM pin code?

Yeah.

That's weird.

I'm skeptical because I've got that pin code in the mail.

You know?

He's calling his bank right now and be like, yo, do you know this?

Has this guy been playing the long game?

Yeah, I don't like that.

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Have you ever done that to people and then withdrawed money?

No comment.

Interesting.

Interesting.

I'm trying to avoid criminal.

Yeah, so I want everyone to know that was correct, right?

That is you went 2020.

Yeah, that was correct.

Your wife of 16 years doesn't know it.

But now I do.

It's 2020 not, it's just because that's the year I moved here.

It wasn't like...

I think, I know you think that's the case.

No, that's 100% the case.

That's exactly what it is.

What do you mean, you know, I think that's the case?

You said a four-digit number, and I was like, oh, the date I moved here.

Right.

2020.

Perfect.

I hear you.

You don't believe me.

It's not that I don't believe you.

It's that we got layers.

So like we're peeling through and I know why you think you picked it.

And I know that you think you gave me no information.

But I'm telling you that

good luck finding out how in the world could I have found out your ATM pin code.

You said nobody knows this.

That informed what I did.

So had you thought of a different number of your social security you wouldn't have said 2020.

but that atm pin code is one that was assigned to me by the bank and i never changed it right it's not i didn't pick it that's even better isn't it had you picked it i could have looked this up that's actually to me more no because you could get it from the bank because the bank is the one that fucking sent it to me if i guess man if i have broken into your bank account there are bigger things at play than this podcast i feel i don't keep a lot of money in that account

watch this watch this How many UFC fights do you think you've seen in person or commentated?

Boy, I don't even know.

I really don't know.

Well, what UFC number are we on?

UFC 2000, 200, what is it?

234 or something?

What is it at now?

235 is the next one.

But each fight has an undercard.

You got the title fight.

Sometimes as many as 15 fights,

or as few as three, three, 316.

What is it?

316.

UFC 316 is now?

Coming up on June 7th.

What did I say?

Two?

Yeah, I was thinking two's for a second.

Didn't we have 300 already?

Oh, you know what?

I'm thinking, I'm confusing podcast numbers.

We're in the 2000s.

Oh, yeah, there are a lot of podcasts.

UFC, yeah, that's so it's UFC 3 what?

316.

316.

10 fights per so I haven't been on all those cards,

but I started commentary-wise in 2021 and just as a post-fight interviewer in 97.

So 97 I did it for two years, not as many shows.

And then from 2001,

I used to do 20 a year.

I used to do a lot.

I was doing most of them.

I would say thousands of fights.

Thousands, right?

So probably.

Watch this.

Because I love that.

I like the way you think and I like that you're skeptical because I'm a huge skeptic.

I'm always the one calling BS on this.

Right.

That's how I started doing it.

If you think think through all your fights and you go back in time and they need to know, this is spontaneous.

This is impulsive.

You have not thought of this before this moment, have you?

Right.

I want you to stop and start thinking of different fighters, past or present.

Could be somebody huge.

Could be a legendary figure.

Could be somebody more under the radar.

Okay.

Maybe you've had them on the podcast.

Maybe you haven't.

Watch.

Make sure you think I'm not guiding you.

The same way you said 2020 ago.

I said that.

I would have said that no matter what.

Let someone jump into your mind right now that you've definitely seen one of his, I guess, or her fights.

Okay.

Bam.

I'm not guessing it.

I don't care.

Tell us.

Was it a specific fight you saw this person in?

Or are you just seeing the fighter?

Just seeing the fighter.

No, no.

Go to a specific fight of that person.

Try to like contextualize it.

Or change to a different fighter right now if you feel like you need to.

Maybe.

Let me think.

Let me think.

See, Joe's not going to want to to change.

And now that I said that.

I'm trying to get it crafty.

Yeah, get crafty.

Move along here.

Are you going to come up with a name of this?

I'm not coming up with anything.

I want to see how your mind worked.

I'm only doing this because you told me I would have said 2020 no matter what.

You think that you had the thought regardless of what I did.

And I want you to see that there's causality.

Boom.

Do it now.

Who just came into your head?

Okay.

Tell us.

I'm not guessing.

Anderson Silva.

Anderson Silva.

Legendary, right?

Yes.

Did he win or lose that fight?

He won.

He won that fight.

Yes.

How many people did you go to?

So funny you said Anderson Silva, legendary guy.

How many people did you think of before you landed on him?

Oh, I don't know.

I was

scrolled, Rolodex.

They just all went flying through my mind.

Just give me a guess.

How many times did you?

Dozens.

Dozens?

Yeah, they just all went flying through my head.

Dozens.

Yeah.

If you had to put a number on it

and you actually count them, how many do you think you went through?

Guess.

I mean, let's be conservative and say for like 14.

Let's not even say dozens.

He He was the 14th fighter that popped in your head.

No, no, he was in there.

He was in the mix.

He was in the mix.

I was just trying to figure out which one to pick.

I was going to get one with a crafty Russian name.

Should have.

It's one of those Chechens.

Yeah.

All right.

No.

14 people went through your head.

Anderson Silva.

Do you think that at some point in this week you heard something that got that in the back of your head that made you say that now?

Do you think there's any way that that could have happened?

No, I don't believe so.

You You don't, right?

No, I don't believe so.

I've just been a huge fan of his forever.

I don't think something popped up that made me think about him.

I'm just curious.

Okay.

No trick.

I'm just curious why that happened.

Yeah.

Where do we go for

this?

Where are you going with this?

I don't know where I'm going.

You don't know?

I do.

Okay.

But I'm not telling you yet.

Oh, okay.

No, Joe's flammak.

He's like, where do we go?

No, I mean, like, I don't know why you asked me the question if you don't have a resolution.

Oh, I'm not guessing it.

I wanted to see where you thought of why it came to your mind.

There'll be a reason.

I don't want to explain it yet, but you'll see.

Okay.

Yeah.

There'll be a reason why it came to your mind.

I think so.

I think there is.

Yeah.

What's the reason?

I don't want to tell you yet.

I'm selling the sizzle, not the steak.

So these techniques that you use,

are these ones that you've invented?

Or are these ones?

A lot of them.

A lot of them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how did you invent them?

How did they come to you?

I think

my favorite form of entertainment by far is stand-up comedy.

Like straight up, I'm a fanboy of comedians, like not the people that do what I do, because that's, I just love watching how you can take any premise and stuff that's not funny, right?

The people that really go, you know, you do like Andrew Schultz, Life, did you watch his?

I haven't seen it yet.

You haven't seen it?

No.

So how do you take infertility, right?

And just, it's not really a very funny subject and make it incredible.

It's incredible.

No, he's a specialist.

He's so good.

So good.

And so I like the fact that how you invent that.

So I design with an end in sight.

I say, what do I want people to remember about what I do?

Because I'm not really in the business of fooling you, honestly, and like entertaining you.

All of those are side effects.

What do I think I do for a living?

I create memorable moments, which is very definable because if you go see a movie, let's say you see a popcorn flick, you walk out of the movie theater, 10 minutes later, what happened in the movie?

I don't know.

It was fun.

I don't know.

That to me is 100% like the death of my show you leave and you will remember things hopefully for years to come and that's because I can rework your memory that's really a lot of the techniques I do people think that your memory is infallible that what you see is some sort of blueprint like a video and it's not It has to do with how you feel in the moment, the emotions, the things you can position the same way hypnosis works.

So I can kind of engineer memories in a certain way, the way people remember things, the way they think, and create those moments that people talk about, hopefully for for years.

And that's what's been, you know, I guess that's what's been the driver of my business and what's helped lead to my success.

Engineering memories.

And when you first started getting into mentalism, is that the word to use for it?

Mentalism?

Yeah.

You're a mentalist, but do you call it mentalism?

I guess so, yeah, mentalism.

Did you know that?

Or is it something that?

I learned it.

You know what?

I learned certain things and I observed them and I didn't understand why they happened.

Do you ever have that?

You ever have a moment in a set where you say something that you didn't think was funny, but got a huge laugh?

Do you have that?

Or or do you always know?

Because it's usually not the punch.

It's like, I didn't know that would be funny right then.

Oftentimes with a new bit,

you don't exactly know where it's funny.

Where the beats are.

What was the word I said in this way?

What was that inflection point?

So when I was doing restaurants, I had this trick where I would have somebody pick a card out of a deck of cards.

Right?

They would put the card back in the deck.

They sign it with their name.

And I used to do this at a bunch of restaurants.

They would shuffle up the deck.

I give them a rubber band.

I say, rubber band, that bad boy.

And I would take the deck and I would throw it at the ceiling.

It's kind of a famous trick.

And then, boom, the ceilings were really high at all the restaurants I worked at, so nobody could peel them.

Their card would stay stuck to the ceiling.

And this was great for multiple ways.

One, everybody talks about it.

And they're like, dude, this guy stuck my card to the ceiling.

How the hell does he do that?

They would also bring people back to the restaurant, right?

Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching.

The managers loved me because we'd bring more people back to see it and point at where their card was, right?

Business 101.

And so I created a great value proposition to the manager.

Why am I there?

I'm, you know, getting you guys more customers.

But one time I'm listening to people that came back in and they're talking about the trick and they go, yo, man, I picked a card.

I put it back in the deck and I shuffled it up.

And next thing I know, I look at the ceiling and my card's on the ceiling.

And I'm like, yo, that's not what happened.

I threw the deck up.

The deck fell down.

And then the card was on the ceiling.

So I go, why did that guy misremember it?

Right.

Maybe he's just drunk, maybe whatever.

But I'm trying to understand why did he have a different memory of the same event?

And what I realized is that people observe what you have them focus on.

Tony Robbins has a great bit where he goes, right now, close your eyes, tell me everything that's green in this room.

And you're like, green?

I don't know.

But then when you open your eyes, I see that the UFO lights are green instantly.

But I say, close your eyes again.

What's purple in this room?

I'm like, I didn't look for purple.

You find what you're looking for.

So if I didn't say, it took me a while to like iterate and figure it out, but if I don't look up when I throw the cards, when I would throw the cards up and let them fall back down in my hand and not look up, the percentage would go 80, 90% That afterwards, people, when they told the story, they edited, they clipped out the part of me throwing the deck.

And now it becomes a miracle.

How the hell is that card on the ceiling stuck?

You mean you shuffled it, it was signed, it's on the ceiling?

That went from being a good trick to a miracle.

And I kind of learned that at about age 15.

And now I started to realize, how do I do that with everything I do?

Because that's a life hack for everything you do.

That's not magic.

That's life.

How do you get people to remember what you want and forget the things you don't want?

Wow.

That's how you achieve success.

You start to highlight your strengths.

You find ways, and that's a learnable skill.

That's not something for magic.

That's something in all of life.

And what is it, like, when you're thinking this, when you're thinking I'm going to get people to remember something?

How are you doing this?

Like, what's your intention when you're trying to devise like

what to do?

Well, I guess my intention, at the end of the day, I'm a competitive SOB.

I want to be the best in the world at what I do.

Like, I'm driven by that.

It's like Olympic gold medalists.

Like, I want to do the best things possible most people don't know what a mentalist is you go on the street hunter people how many people are going to say yeah i have a second um

atm card

leave that for the end huh you want to try it again not yet and i don't like to do the same thing i gotta do better i want to see it again though i want to see if you could do it again all right before we go how about that not right now we're we're we're in flow okay okay uh but i'm trying to throw you off you could listen i don't get it right every time that's the other part a magic trick works every time this doesn't i've eaten it on live national TV with millions of people watching.

Yeah, man, there's no safety net.

Like, it's not a trick.

There's not a card trick where you put it in.

I find it.

There's not like that.

So, how are you doing it?

Well, I mean, I'm telling you, I don't read minds.

I read people.

I've got a whole host of different skills, algorithms, you name it, like misdirection.

It's all a wheelhouse of skills that I'm using to create the impression that I can read your mind.

But this has got to be a weird thing to know how to do.

Weird, like in a bad way or a good way?

Definitely a good way.

Yeah.

but weird to like you have like an extra frequency i agree that you're tuning into with humans like you're experiencing life in a different way because you're experiencing life through this understanding of like thought patterns in a way you know what the best way do you remember in born identity the first scene like one of the scenes where he loses memory and he walks in the restaurant do you remember that scene and he's sitting at a diner do you remember that one i don't He sits there and he turns and he goes, he doesn't remember who he is.

And he goes, why do I know?

And I'm going to massacre this quote, but why do I know that that guy's 250 can handle himself in a fight?

Why do I know this?

Why do I know that right now I could run for two and a half miles before my core temperature goes down to this?

Like he, it's like this amazing superhero spy moment of like, how the hell does he know all that stuff?

So he's observing life at a much more

hyper focused level than most people are.

Most people are dialed in at autopilot.

If you could set a speaker to autopilot and here's what you're observing, I don't do it in my day-to-day life.

It requires focus.

It's not the same.

It's kind of like, I guess, I don't know.

I don't lift weights.

I just run.

But how much focus is required to try to do, you know, the largest bench press you've ever done?

I assume that you have to get psyched up.

You have to focus.

You have to do everything right for that to work.

It's just an analogy.

But for me, when I'm performing, you ask me why did I run 27 miles this morning?

That dials in my mind.

Like I'm focused where I thought through everything I'm going to do today.

It's a laser focus.

That got me kind of in tune.

I could also have not run, but

I'm also away from home, so that was like my joy.

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Um, so when you're like putting together a show, when you're going to do a show, how do you structure it?

Like, how do you,

like, day one, you're like, okay, I'm getting ready to do a show.

You mean something on TV or like what I do for a living?

Like, like, for either one, any kind of show you're doing.

So for my day-to-day living, which is I do a lot of like really big corporate events and then I do, you know, I guess a lot of private parties, things of that sort, performances, like live performances.

Typically, I structure it the same way I think anybody would.

I want to go out the gate very strong.

I want to very instantly establish credibility.

Who am I?

What do I do?

Am I any good at it?

And why should you be paying attention to me?

Because all those questions off the jump is like, who the hell cares?

I always go into it with who cares what you can do.

You're special.

I don't care.

i like the thought of i'm gonna prove to you that this is something incredible and that it's something you're interested in emotionally right if i told you just make a random number up who cares but now it's gonna haunt you that that's your freaking atm pin code so i prefer that so i do something very quick that freaks you out and then every single thing needs to have a very clear premise like i call it clarity of effect I don't like a trick where I'm like, get a book, get a Rubik's Cube, get that.

Like, it's too confusing.

You need to be able to explain to a six-year-old what I did in one sentence for it to be memorable.

That's the key.

The best things you've ever seen are typically stuff you can describe in one max two sentences.

And for TV, for TV, it's the same, same exact thing, but I always like to do new stuff.

So I've done a lot of TV appearances, and I always structure it based on who's watching.

So rather than it being about me and me saying, oh, look what I can do, and look how cool this is, right?

You do a card trick.

Again, I'm not saying that's not amazing, but the card trick's about you typically if i'm on espn and i've you know done hundreds of millions of views doing stuff for football players you're watching this you're a football fan you're like who cares about this guy i'm going to do stuff about football players and about what interests you if you're a fan i don't know if you've ever seen i did a clip with joe burrow from the bangles where i said joe I ever spoken to you a word in my life.

He goes, no.

Like I, honestly, the funny thing about that is I wasn't even supposed to use him in the show.

They told me he's shy.

He doesn't want to eat.

Like, don't use him in the show.

And they said, if you can't avoid him, and I got in there, I tried to rile up the gang, you know, kind of peer pressure.

And I'm like, should we get Joe in here?

And they're like, yeah, get him up.

Haven't spoken a word to this guy in my life.

There's no access.

I went in with ESPN.

Shout out to Adam Shafter, who I love, who set all these wheels in motion.

But Joe stands up, doesn't know me from anyone.

And I say, every wide receiver and tight end in the room, stand up.

And I go, what if?

I could tell you who you're going to throw that ball to.

What's that worth?

Right.

That's the holy grail if you're in football.

I go, catch the ball quarterback.

I go, look at everyone in this room and now look at me and i wrote on a huge huge thing showed the camera throw it to anybody you want throws it got the first one right i go let's do it again i go throw it to anyone you want anyone i go anyone throws it got the second one right everyone's freaking out i go one last play one last two is luck and i write fakes to jamar you go watch the clip it's most viral thing I've ever done.

And he fakes it to Jamar, turns around, throws it to another guy, nailed it exactly.

Just, and you just see his face.

And so I i was thinking about how i would do that for two years two years of thinking of every single way that could work not work go wrong everything about it was you know he thought i went in the room and it's so simple that was two years of me thinking about it during every run

so for two years you knew you were going to do this or you knew that you were i i started with the end you asked me the same way i don't know how you like form a set but you asked me how do i design i was designing with the story people would tell and And so people that don't know who I am, don't know anything.

They'll go, yo, we saw this guy.

Did you see this guy in ESPN?

He just told Joe Burrow to throw the ball to any people.

Throws it, gets it right.

Throws it.

Like the story is, I told a quarterback anybody he would throw the ball to.

So it was any quarterback.

It wasn't Joe Burrow in your head.

Well, I didn't know who it would be.

But you said you could do it for two years.

So for two years, you thought you were going to be on ESPN and with a quarterback?

Well, no.

So he was the second season.

So when I first started it, I start brainstorming.

I'm like, I can't control what thoughts come in.

I'm constantly thinking about what I'm going to do.

And I just do notes apps.

I write stuff down in the shower.

Like when I run is when I come up with stuff and in the shower.

Sometimes on airplanes, but I sleep on planes, but that's when it hits me.

Like where are your bursts?

You must have like, where are you getting material?

Mostly late at night.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, but sometimes driving.

Driving?

You don't have to driving calls or anything?

I mean,

phone calls, I'm usually concentrated on talking to people.

They're not the times where ideas come to me.

A lot of times it's driving with no music on.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm never in the car by myself ever.

Oh, really?

Mm-mm.

Family.

Five kids.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

With driving to work, you know,

usually that's when it comes to me.

Yeah.

And I'm in New York City, so there's sauna, sauna.

Sauna's good because you can't be on electronics.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, the phones are a killer.

The phones, like, you zap any creativity or boredom.

You need boredom.

You do need boredom.

Yeah, you need boredom for ideas to come to you for sure.

Yep.

Yeah, that's the problem.

But essentially with social media, it's like it's a boredom.

You are still bored, but you are occupied.

Right.

You don't get to sit with it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which I think is key because that's when they kind of fire off.

Yep.

And I think that's, you know, not to get into it, but like so many kids now have no way to deal with boredom.

Like it's like, panic.

I got to get my phone.

I got to, you know, that whole feeling of, I wish there was a way to do that.

Yeah, they're just completely unaccustomed to not being constantly entertained.

Right.

And even entertained by nonsense.

It's not even really entertaining.

It's just distracting.

Yeah.

Which is a big part of it.

Yeah, yeah.

So you sat out for two years prepping this thing.

No, but I didn't sit out.

I was just always thinking.

It's like.

Right.

I mean, but you know, you set out, I should say, set out in your mind.

You had this idea in your head for two years.

How do I do it?

Yeah.

How do you do it?

How do you do it?

That was the question because I didn't know how to do it at first.

How did you do it?

It's a million dollar question, right?

I wouldn't be in business if everybody knew.

That's kind of.

Well, okay, even better.

How did you learn how to do this kind of thing?

So I started with books, and then there's some videos, but it's a very

good person tell you that's applicable.

They give you a series of foundational things.

Like, right, almost everybody who becomes a mentalist stars a magician.

It's kind of like if you're a doctor, you got to be a doctor before you become a plastic surgeon.

So there's this core set of skills that you utilize.

To know how to fool people, right?

To know how people think.

Okay.

Right.

Think about it.

If I taught you a card trick right now, there's always a level of deception.

Oh, that's.

Sleight of hand.

Well, there's tricks called self-working tricks where you don't need to do any sleight of hand.

Okay.

They work by themselves as long as you follow the instructions, like Ikea furniture, like step one, step two, step three.

As long as you can work people in a certain way to do the right things versus somebody, I'm not doing that.

You're like, oh, shit, what do I do right now?

Right.

You have to know how to finesse people.

You have to influence people effectively.

And so that same stuff within magic almost always applies to props.

You need a thing to do the trick.

Now, it could be a regular deck of cards, in which case you're learning slights, but also there's gimmicks, right?

There's tricks you can buy at stores, which when I was a kid, I'm like, oh, teenager, I'm like, get me the next gimmick.

But then to get better, you start being able to do stuff impromptu, right?

That's when you kind of hit another level where I don't need stuff.

I can do stuff with anything.

You know, I could do stuff.

It's like

a good story for my book that I'm writing right now, but it's like where

I just needed anything around.

I was like, I end up in jail for a weekend.

It's a long story, but like in jail, one weekend, stupid weekend, but I walk in there by myself and

I should have been out that day.

But anyway, I got stuck all weekend and I watched them with cards.

And it was like I had trained my whole life for this moment where I walked up record scratch to like 40 dudes and I go, can I see those cards?

And it was like, everyone looked at me like, what's this guy about to do?

And I just did card tricks for the next eight hours.

When I went to take a shower, I'm like, I'm like thinking of the show Oz.

I'm like, oh my God, right now I took it.

I had protection.

i went to the shower macausta county jail in michigan and literally i had people being like go take a shower we got you bro uh

what did you go to jail for oh so stupid so we had this is so dumb this almost derailed my whole career drunken idiots i go up to visit a buddy in college and we steal from a papa john's got don't ask me why a broken phone at a college papa john's just being idiots i paid for the pizza but there was a broken phone on the counter and you know this is like me slight a hand style i'm like i'm just stealing this thing it just gone And it was in my jacket.

And then I told my buddies, you guys got to get something too.

So they go in the bathroom, which doubles up as the employee locker room.

And they take three dirty shirts, dirty shirts from a laundry bin.

And we bring them back to my buddy's house like idiots.

We wear them.

And we at the party, I barely remember this.

I was like, Blackout Drunk.

Are like, Papa John's, who wants a pizza?

Who wants a pizza?

I end up going to sleep.

On his futon, right?

At like 2 a.m.

And at 4 a.m., someone comes in and they're like, yo, the cops are here.

I'm like, dude, it's not my my house.

What do you want for me?

Did you guys post the videos?

No, this is pre-social media, man.

No, no.

Somebody ratted us out.

Somebody's roommate, I found this out way later,

called and goes, yo, bro, there's a bunch of dudes here with a broken phone from Papa John.

I didn't know any of this, but somebody comes in, they're like, yo, the cops are here.

And I'm like, they're here for you.

And I'm like, here for me?

What do you mean they're here for me?

I don't live here.

And cops come in the room.

And I'm wearing like aggressively small underwear at this point.

This is like tidy whiteys.

This couldn't have been more of like a bad perp walk.

And I, they go, yo you're under arrest and i'm like for what and they're like for stealing from papa johns and what am i gonna say i'm wearing the shirt

oh my god this is on a friday night how old are you i was 20 years old and i was just about to get an internship from meryl lynch and while this story is hilarious now And it's like a funny chapter in my book.

It was like, God help me.

Did I avoid everything?

And then when I went to jail, yo, scariest, one of the scariest days of my life.

How did you get out of everything?

So I got out of everything because I I had a clean record.

I was a pretty upstanding citizen.

And, you know, not to get in the weeds.

There's something called Holmes Youthful Trainee Act.

I wonder if they still have it.

Whereas expunged from my record, didn't have to report it to like the Wall Street firm.

And they also said they were charging me.

They put us in like a drunk tank, me and two buddies.

And they said they're charging us with felony larceny.

And I've seen some like law and order.

I'm like, felony?

It's just like, what do we steal?

Like 20 bucks worth of stuff?

They go, but you stole things they don't sell.

Had you stolen $999 of pizza, it would have been a misdemeanor.

And And I know they're lying to me.

I'm not a mentalist then and I'm inebriated, but I can read the room.

Didn't say a word, knew this was BS.

And then they separate us when we went to general population.

And it's not like the movies.

You know, it's like, it was, it was wild.

It was wild when I went in there.

And I just knew this is my cheat code.

It was like everything in life had prepared me for this moment.

And the jail was also, again, I didn't notice, but it was very segregated.

Like the white dudes are here, the black dudes are here.

And I didn't know, what do you do when you go in?

Like, what do you do?

I'm five foot nothing.

I'm like a buck 40 dripping wet.

What do I do?

How do you make friends right now?

And I see the black guys playing spades and I just walk up and it's like, you make your move.

And I'm like, let me see those cards.

And it was just, it's like a moment I have, and I didn't stop for hours.

And I didn't repeat a trick.

Like, I know tricks encyclopedically.

I just go all day.

Wow.

What an experience.

It was crazy.

And then it was all thrown out and cost me some money.

It was definitely a very, very stressful few weeks, and I never stole anything since.

Honestly, that was scared straight.

That was very, very smart.

Like, I, you prefer to learn a lesson like that for my kids, especially without being stupid.

But so many of us have to be stupid to internalize a lesson of touching the stove, and I had to burn my hands.

Did you always talk this way, the way you talk?

You talk very fast with a lot of energy.

Just your whole life?

I think so.

Even though, man, anyone on 1.5x, the way I listen to podcasts, is going to be miserable with me.

But yeah, maybe that.

You can talk fast.

Like, you're listening to podcasts at that speed.

You're communicating at that speed.

It's like you're on.

I'm on.

And you ran 27 fucking miles.

That's true.

No caffeine.

So I'm not a caffeine guy.

You don't drink caffeine at all?

I try to avoid it.

Like I'm not a coffee guy.

I missed the boat on coffee.

I honestly wish I did.

It probably wouldn't be good for me given how dialed in I am.

But like I just never started drinking caffeine, so I never got into it.

Do you ever mess with any stimulants?

Not really.

No, not really?

What does that mean?

Like, what do you mean by stimulant?

Like, I'll have anything.

If I don't sleep,

and that happens a lot.

So if I'm not, like, getting enough sleep and I've done a red eye and I'm this and that, I will occasionally do like a Celsius or a Red Bull, but I don't really like it.

I do it kind of as medicine because I have to be alive and functioning, but I really try to avoid it.

What is it like when you get hit with a Celsius and you haven't been drinking any caffeine?

So I only drink about a third of it and then I pour it out.

And my kids are always like, why are you pouring that out?

And they call everything a brewski, which is a weird thing.

They call it just because before I'd always like, it was always like a brewski is what they've extrapolated to every beverage in a can being a brewski.

That's hilarious.

It's hilarious.

That's funny.

And so one-third just like must be a little bit more

than the roof.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, if you drank a four loco.

I did.

Four loco booze in it.

Yo, four locos are like.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Yeah, it was like, but it has like caffeine, too, right?

That's like bad decisions in a can right there.

Yeah, like, what am I thinking of?

Oh, a red line.

Is that the one?

No, I think it's for loco.

It's caffeine mixed with alcohol.

It's the one that's like, was just caffeine.

It was fucking crazy.

Oh, that was the stuff to take like pre-workout that was fucking people up.

Was that a red line?

Something like that.

Oh, there was that one.

That was the other one.

That was Rip Fuel.

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Yeah.

Yeah.

So you've always been like this.

I gotta ask my wife.

I think so.

Well, I'm more on now because we're doing something, but if I go on certain platforms or TV and I know I want to be slow, then I'll just calibrate down.

But I'm getting fired up.

Do you, when you plan out a show, whether it's a corporate show or a television show, do you have like a whiteboard?

Do you like put your ideas on?

Like, how do you, how do you do it?

So I take meticulous notes about everything.

Everyone I meet, everything at the end of a show, immediately, as quickly as I can afterwards.

Probably some people record shows.

I hate re-watching myself on corporate shows and like live shows.

I don't mind TV stuff, but for some reason, those, if I've repeated material, because I, you know, it's like muscle memory, you've done this before.

It irks me to watch again.

But I write down everything that happened, every single nuance, like paragraphs about everything that happened, which is a useful life hack because I remember it all, but also I get repeat bookings a lot.

So if somebody brings me back, now it's like a real magic trick where I know everything about what happened.

And if you even just recount stuff from two years ago, people think you have superhuman memory.

Or what are they like?

People's number one subjects are themselves, their family, and their friends.

The more you can do that and give them back stuff about them, the more they're like, wow, what a caring individual, right?

Being a good listener, a lot of times just repeating back to people what they just said.

Right.

Right.

When you do these corporate shows and you do these television shows,

when it goes great, do you have this idea in your head, like, now I've got to ramp it up?

Now I've got to push it even further.

Now I've got to make it even more difficult for me.

For sure.

For TV more than corporate.

Because corporate's not as big of a deal because

what does somebody want there?

They want a defined quantity, right?

They don't want somebody, you don't want to work out new material if you're being paid a lot.

It's just, it's at a stadium.

Are you doing new ones?

Like, you're going to do your hour.

You're going to do what's solid.

So I do a lot of that.

And the problem is I don't really have a lot of places where I can do new material because I'm just so busy.

So I have so many events that I don't really have like anything that I do.

Are there like open mics for mentalists where you can go and practice?

There might have been in the past, but right now

it's just not where I'm at.

So you just practice on friends sometimes?

I believe everything's in my head.

Everything.

Yeah, so I,

a lot of the things I'll do on TV, I've never done before ever.

Really?

Yeah.

So I'm just thinking through everything that could go wrong, and I go through kind of like a list of what could go wrong here, what could go wrong here.

What if they think this right there?

What if we change this?

So I have like plan A, B, C, D, E.

I have just a long list of what everything will go, like a pick-your-own adventure.

And typically, I know where to go with it.

And then controlling your body and your tension is everything, right?

So you're a hunter.

You step on a branch, animal hears it.

What happens, right?

Gone, right?

It's a sense that we can feel.

We have the same thing.

We're animals.

If I get tense when something's going wrong, you can sense it.

Even if you don't know it on a conscious level, you can sense it.

And now we have a cascade.

So my job.

is based upon me being somewhere the alpha and being in control of a situation.

And so if I right, think about it.

If I just just said, think of your pin code, you're like, I don't want to, right?

I don't want to.

I'm going to do this instead.

I'm going to do this instead, right?

How did you

acquiesce to my will?

You did what I wanted in essence, right?

We could manipulate any way, but at the end of the day, you did what I wanted.

And in my show, I'm the one pointing the camera.

I'm always the director.

You don't get to point where you want.

I'm kind of in charge.

And even if I let you think you're in charge, I'm still in charge at the end of the day.

Right.

Right.

I come to my kids.

I want them to eat veggies.

I don't say, you got to eat your veggies.

They'll say, no.

I go, you're so lucky right now.

Carrots, cucumbers, or peppers, which one?

You're so lucky.

You get to choose first before your brother or sister.

Now I've framed it differently,

right?

Anybody who has toddlers knows that's the best way to do it.

Don't go straight on.

That's not going to work.

Right.

So the same thing applies.

Power dynamics in relationships with people.

So I got lost in my train of thought.

But in essence, if I am messing up and you know it, it's going to go downhill really fast.

And so on TV, some of my biggest messups, you don't know, but I I am shitting my pants, flop sweat, like fully.

And I can't let you see that.

I need to be so calm because if I am not calm, you can actually, you can actually tell.

And it's going to keep going worse.

And I can't get you to go back to what I want.

And now I've lost control of the situation.

So years and years were spent doing that.

I would say it's very akin to a sniper.

I'm not a sniper, don't get me wrong.

I'm not military, but how do you calm your heart rate?

How do you stay calm even when you're not?

And I could have an HRM on me.

I'm calm when things are going wrong.

That must help.

The running must help for that.

I think so.

Low heart rate.

Just in control of it as well, right?

Like your heart muscles very finely tuned.

Yeah.

I think it helps.

I mean, it can't hurt.

My friend Cam Haynes, who also runs these crazy ultra marathons, he's also the best bow hunter in the world.

And bow hunting is a lot of it is controlling your anxiety at the moment of the shot execution.

And I would imagine for him, his heart rate is is like completely under control all the time because he's always like very low.

You know, because he does so many miles, like everything, he can stay calm.

It's probably a really great tool just for staying calm, right?

I think so.

I mean, the way I describe the ultra marathons, because they're silly, right?

He just ran, I love Cam, ran 250 miles.

Do you see that thing?

Amazing.

That's a crazy thing to do.

That's not healthy.

And I'm a nutcase who can say that.

And for most people, they're like, I don't want to do that.

And you don't need to.

But what is that?

What is that really?

When you do that, everything else in life becomes easier.

The lows that you experience when you do something like that is a way you cannot fake in any other way.

You cannot test who you really are.

Then putting yourself, you could be on the couch saying, what would I do and be tough guy and you pretend to be Goggins or Haynes?

But until you get in that level where you're miserable, you haven't slept in a day, you have all that, there might be another way to push yourself, but that's where you learn who am I really at my core.

And then when you go back to normal life, everything else, the volume is turned down.

And when I come back from those races, all I do is get a mirror to put up to see, who am I really when things are at their lowest and when I want to quit and I don't.

Yeah, I think that's a very strong statement.

I think one of the things that you just said there, I've said a bunch of times, is that if you can work out really hard and push your body and push your mind, it makes other forms of adversity that you face during the day much easier.

And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people are so filled with anxiety.

It seems like that's such a simple solution that most people don't want to accept it.

They're like, oh, there's more to that.

There's a mental imbalance.

There's this, there's that.

Like, perhaps.

But everybody that I know that does what I'm talking about, everybody I know that pushes themselves very hard in the gym or running or doing yoga or whatever, they're the most happy and the most relaxed and they're able to face adversity throughout the day day much easier than people that don't take care of their body that don't eat well that don't exercise and don't experience any voluntary physical discomfort

couldn't agree more it's just i think it's it's i think it's mandatory you know and it doesn't have to be what i do or it doesn't have to be what you do it's go find do pickleball okay go play some other sport tennis do something that's fun jiu-jitsu is a great one because it's fun to do and then you learn how to do something while you're working out.

Muay Thai is another one like that.

You know, there's a lot of stuff that you can do that's fun that's exercise, but man, you should exercise.

You got to move your body.

You got to move your body.

Again, I don't want to speak out of turn like medical, but they've shown over and over that exercise is just, it's almost as effective in certain regards and like just being a certain level of healthiness than antidepressants.

No, more effective.

Yeah, more effective.

More effective.

It's unbelievable.

Statistically, clinically more effective.

More effective.

Yeah.

Because it's, of course it is.

Of course it is.

Like this is the reason why people are so filled with anxiety is because your body has certain physical requirements.

Right.

Your body was designed to fight off predators and to run away from enemies and to hunt and gather food.

That's the same DNA as people that lived tens of thousands of years ago.

Courses through your body.

That's the fabric of your body.

That's you.

Right.

You can't deny that.

And there's a reason why this sedentary sort of generation that we're experiencing right now because of phones and tablets and all the sitting in front of screens all the time is the most depressed.

Right.

No, for sure, anxious too.

Like the Jonathan Haydon, like, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's wild, the correlation, and it's just so clear-cut.

But yeah, social media is very, uh, it's, it's, it's one of those things, there's some benefits, but man, oh man, you can't put that genie back in the bottle.

So you gotta find the right way to do it.

There's some benefits in that there's a lot of inspiration.

I agree.

You know, and also information.

You know, I'm not completely off of social media.

I tap into everyone, but I've radically reduced it over the last month or so.

And in doing that, it's really been much, much nicer.

Like, life is way easier.

But occasionally, I'll find something really interesting on social media.

So it's like, boy, I don't want to not know that.

I don't want to not like find out about some new scientific breakthrough or some new thing that's going on.

One of the things that I've found that

helps me, though, is instead of social media,

I just have a bunch of stuff that I curate in my Google News app.

And so I'll just find like any sort of scientific breakthrough or some weird discovery or a lot of really interesting things about ancient civilizations.

I just have that stuff curated so it just shows up on my feed.

Where do you get that on your phone?

Yeah, it's just the Google News app.

It's great because it's like that way I can find stuff out without having to go and just hopefully randomly run into it on X or on Instagram.

Right.

You know, that's helped.

That helps a lot.

I'm terrible with X.

A lot of my friends get news on X.

I'm just like, oh, it's too much negativity.

It's all a lot of negativity.

And for Instagram, for years, I started realizing that it just,

like a compare in despair is one of the, you know that, like, where

I'm like, why am I getting off of this and feeling worse than I did getting on it?

And so I really had to flip a switch in my brain to,

I got rid of that.

Anything that I don't like, I don't show.

And I stopped focusing on what I don't have.

And I focus on what I do have.

And so it

so did you like used to go to it and you see someone with a giant house and a Lamborghini or something like that?

Like was it material possession?

It wasn't material.

It was I need to use.

So I don't look at people and hope poorly upon them.

I look more at it and say, I'm not doing enough.

So it's like an inferior.

You're always going to be lesser than, right?

You're always going to be, someone's going to be younger, richer, smarter, like every er.

But in my case, it was more of, I wanted to achieve a level of success and just seeing other people in my field or other fields.

And I felt like I'm not doing enough.

I'm

somewhat driven ambitious.

So I'm like, I'm just not doing enough right now.

And it's that constant feeling of I'm not doing enough doesn't drive you.

It would be better to see, look at them.

I'm so happy for them.

I'm going to do that too.

Like, it should be a positive uplifting thing, and it's a flip in your brain.

It's like multiplying negative one times negative one and much more of the inflection point of gratitude.

Like, I, I, do you know Jay Shetty?

Jay, I don't know, podcaster, really good dude.

I've definitely heard him.

I met him last year, and he told me something very stuck with me for the last year, which is a million thoughts a day.

We're on social media.

We're all this, that.

He goes, the only two thoughts, you can't control them all, but try to control two thoughts each day.

The first one when you wake up and the last one you go to sleep.

It's that easy.

Those two, just try to have the first thing you wake up be one.

And before you go to bed, just have one last thought.

Okay.

And they're always, for me, it's like, yo, every day alive is a blessing.

Like, I literally, I believe that that in my core you i don't know what's going to happen tomorrow like a parent in my school just passed away recently shattered like young kids cancer i've known a few people and you see that and you're like no that's for real though you don't know what will happen tomorrow right so i've hit the lottery like i'm blessed beyond measure wife way out of my league smart gorgeous sharp as a whip five beautiful kids like i try to focus on everything i have and never on what i don't have i get to do what i love for a living like my mindset is completely evolved of why would i think of what people don't?

And everybody, if you're alive, you should be happy.

You do not know what tomorrow will be.

And I know that's all like new agey, whatever, but that's, you don't know when your clock's up.

We were just talking about that in the green room last night at the comedy club about gravitational.

The problem with gratitude is that too many people have co-opted it.

Right.

And really annoying people.

Annoying.

Annoying like wooden beads types, you know, like gratitude.

But gratitude is really important.

But no, it's actually what you think because your thoughts create a lot of your reality.

The same way I said looking around the room.

So if your mindset starts to become one more of rather than you see someone, you're like, screw that guy.

He's rich, right?

That's how the mindset, that's easy for you to say they're rich.

You see that in comments all the time.

I'm like, I think that person worked their butt off to get to where they are.

And what did they do?

And you know what?

That's inspirational to me.

What can I learn from that?

And so that's just a mindset of, I don't see it as a zero-sum game.

Well, it's one thing that those people that post things like that have in common when you go to their page, they're all very boring.

Right.

It's really interesting.

You see, like the expression of their dull mind that's like, fuck them, they got money.

Right.

I don't have money.

They got money.

It's a dull brain.

And I always wonder, like, what is it like to be that person?

Is that person, is that a biological hitch or is it just learned behavior?

Like, what is it that makes them that stupid?

I don't know if it's stupid.

I don't know if I judge, but I think you project your insecurities.

It's a little bit of that, but it's clearly a stupid way to think.

Right.

You know, it does, it's totally not empowering, Like to complain about someone else's success or be angry about someone else's success is not empowering in any way, shape, or form.

And so that's inherently stupid.

But you find the excuses.

Because you're like, if I had that, if I had that, and rather than must be nice.

Well, exactly, must be nice.

Rather than saying, how do I do this for myself?

Exactly.

It's much easier, especially if you've given up on certain things.

Now, once you've given up, it's better to make excuses and bring someone else down to try to bring you up.

Well, here's what's dumb about it.

And this is why I said it stupid.

It doesn't get any better when you think like that.

Instead, if you can shift your focus and see someone doing something,

recognize that these tinges of jealousy that you feel are completely natural, but realize that to get the most out of this, you have to switch that in your mind to inspiration.

And that person's success that's kind of freaking you out now becomes fuel.

Right.

Now becomes fuel and you can motivate yourself.

But you have to avoid the fuck that guy and fuck this and fuck that.

That doesn't help you at all.

That does zero good for you.

And in fact, it occupies all of your precious time with complaining when instead, if you can manage it and it can be managed, you can turn that into inspiration and then go out and try to do something.

Either focus more on what you're doing, realize maybe I'm doing this where it's not as efficient or maybe I can have more energy.

Maybe I just need to do it more.

Maybe I need to be a little bit more disciplined in my approach, whatever it is.

But those little shifts will have measurable changes in the outcomes.

Huge, huge changes.

Major.

Down the line, especially the big one.

Change jealousy to inspiration.

Love that.

You have to be able to do it.

Right.

It's a giant key.

You know, I remember when I was 21 years old, there was a guy who was going on stage and I was hoping that he bombed.

right I remember thinking that I was hoping that he bombed and the reason I real recognized it I was realizing that I was recognizing that he was talented and that he was really funny and it bothered me that maybe I wasn't as talented as him or I wasn't as funny as him so instead of like seeing him going what is he doing like wow this is great instead now all of a sudden I was hoping that he failed right and then I realized like oh here's the problem You, first of all, that's just like general bitch thinking that, like, can enter into your head, and you got to figure out how to stop that.

Yep.

But I also realized that I was getting to this weird, precarious position, which happens to a lot of artists, where you get into something, whether it's music or stand-up comedy, because you love it as a fan.

You love watching it.

Like, I loved comedy.

But then when I became a comedian, I stopped loving comedy.

Now I was comparing everyone to myself right that's brutal right yeah and it's not good for you and I was like no no no you got to go back to laughing at stuff that's good and not connecting it to you at all it has nothing to do with you so when someone's really good that should be great right and then you should be laughing even if you don't like that person you should be laughing right just you even if you hate someone and they're funny you should be laughing because it's good for you yeah and it's i find that it's over time it's it's it's almost it's selfish but it's selfless at the the same time.

Is I like to show love to people coming up as much as possible and try to highlight them and try to kind of pay it forward in a way.

Yeah.

That's for the new people that are kind of doing what I do or doing different things.

It makes you feel good.

It makes you feel good to do good for others.

It's selfish to help people.

Isn't that funny?

I say that too.

It's very funny we think the same.

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Real meat and vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients and help avoid any of the bad stuff that comes with ultra-processing.

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Yeah, I think exactly the same way.

It's It's kind of selfish, but it's also,

that's what community is supposed to be about.

It's supposed to be not just about you.

And that's the difference between community and a cult.

Right.

A cult is like, then you have the cult leader.

He starts banging everybody's wife and he wants everybody's money.

There's always an inflection point where you're starting to bang wives.

That's always where is that in the culture?

There's always a message from God.

Right.

That tells you you need more pussies.

And you're like, those two right there.

I don't know why.

He didn't, I didn't say it.

I didn't say it for the record.

Yeah.

He said it.

God said it.

And then always the part else is there's always some sort of a end point.

Like the world's going to end, but it didn't because we prayed so hard.

So we're back, baby.

Yeah, those guys are great.

There was a billboard in Los Angeles a while back that had the date of the end of the world.

Right.

And you drive by, and I was like, I can't wait to show up here and take a selfie in front of it the day after this fucking stupid date.

Right.

Because those guys are never right.

Never right.

That's weird.

They're the worst mentalists.

You know, the

cult leaders?

Yeah, cult leaders, they just never see the writing on the wall.

The cult leader has like a very unique where, again,

there's a fine line between if you looked at a path of my life, again, I don't see myself cult leader, but a con man is very similar in many regards to what I do because that's using these skills in what I would describe as like an unethical way, right?

But don't you think they're the same thing?

A cult leader is a type of con man.

Oh, I'm saying what I do is like a a con man.

Yeah, but you are a con man for entertainment purposes.

Right, exactly.

It's different.

Like

you have an understanding of the human mind, but instead of using it in a way, you do it for entertainment, which is like a good way to use it.

For sure, everybody gets happiness out of it.

It's happiness, and you're not lying about the premise, which is the premise is I'm starting from the jump.

I'm not psychic.

I'm not supernatural.

People ask me, is this like a talent or is it a gift?

And I think it's similar.

Well, yeah, I mean, you've got to have some sort of thing in you to be a good comedian or a good musician or anything like that you can work on it and get better but I'm never going to the NBA you know what I'm saying that's you have to have some attributes right there's like a personality trait that just is embedded in you from the time you're young for whatever the thing is that you love to do maybe it was like watching my folks maybe there was a lot of weird stuff I was very good at math as a kid like unusually good at math and I would do weird stuff like I'd count steps every time I knew every step in every place I ever went to like some

rain man stuff and when I would go this is from the time I was like six we go to Little Caesars I'll never forget I lived in Metro Detroit and before they rang up the food I knew the percentage tax it would be so when they did it I would instantly say before I'd look and I know what my mom was gonna take on you you're gonna get $16.18 how did you know that and change and it was like a weird

and it was like a weird thing that I got very good at and I think the boom dopamine hit dopamine hit they would like that

and so it's ingrained where I was good at again people become the joker because there's some sort of dark thing in their fear.

Not everybody, but typically there's some, I don't want to say trauma,

but you're not going to be funny or amazing unless something happened in your life where you have a reason to be entertaining.

And so I think there's points in time where I could take people's minds off things, and this was a great way to do it.

And also magic, people don't get to know you.

They get to know the character, the performer.

So you get that nice little separation, which I learned at a young age was really like how to make rejection, fear of rejection, fear of failure.

Most people, that's their number one fear.

And I learned at 14 how to make that gone, like eliminate that entirely.

Interesting.

That's interesting.

It's also the dynamic of you being in control, which I think

you talked about earlier.

I think is for whatever reason imperative when you're speaking to people.

You have to be in control for them to let you kind of guide everything.

You don't want other people, you don't want to ask questions and have everybody like free to talk and

abuse.

No, I don't mind that, but if they do it when I want them to, right?

It's like, again, so the best salespeople in the world aren't the used car sales.

They're like, buy this, buy this.

That's nobody does well.

The number one salesperson in the organization is the one who gets you to sell yourself.

They're bending over backwards to be like, I got to do business with you, right?

You get someone to the point where at the end, you don't have to hard close.

Right.

Every organization I work for, and I go in there and like show you how to do sales training one-on-one.

It's going to be the person who gets the other person to sell themselves.

That's what you do.

You lay the breadcrumbs into the trap.

The trap is not a bad thing, but the same thing happens in my show.

I am leading you in a certain direction.

Watch, I'll show you something.

How often is Jamie?

Jamie, when I walked in, I talked to him for like two minutes, said he loves magic.

He does.

Is that true?

Is Jamie off mic?

Yeah, what's up?

He didn't know I was going to do this.

You have daughters, correct?

Yes.

So it's hard.

I have three girls, two boys, and I found when I named our girls, well, we named it together, obviously, the naming of the girls was far harder than the boys.

When you named your daughters, was it agreed upon?

Were you like shortlisted?

How did it go about?

Well, I feel like my wife did way more work than I did.

She did.

For sure.

So she carries the baby in her body.

And I said, listen, I would just want veto power.

Veto.

Where you can't name the kid applesauce or something fucking stupid.

But she did.

I go, I don't think it's a fair proposition.

That's like literally what I said.

I said, and I don't give a fuck about names.

And they've got your name for last name.

Which might seem not fair, but yeah.

Right.

It's right.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And so does she.

But my name is Joe.

It's a boring ass, stupid name.

It doesn't bother me at all that I have the same name as a billion people.

Right.

So for me, names don't mean anything.

And it meant something for her.

So I said, you decide.

So watch this.

Do you know what the most common names are right now?

I know this recently with

a two-week-old, but the most common names right now are not the same as when you were naming your daughters, is my guess, if they're teenagers.

Do you know what the most common name right now in America?

I think it's six years running.

Mom, look this up.

No, no, for girls.

For girls.

What is it?

No.

Olivia.

Jamie, can you look up top 10?

It's a beautiful name.

Look up, it just came out, Social Security.

I know this because, like I said, we were trying to figure out names.

Am I right?

It should be Olivia's number one.

I don't know what site to go to, but.

I don't know.

Google top 10.

Who Who do you think of when you think of Olivia?

I thought initially of Olivia Wilde.

Who's Olivia Wilde?

Movie star?

Quite place.

Do you know who she is?

Oh, that lady.

Yeah.

Oh, she's great.

Yeah.

I thought of Olivia Newton-John.

Yeah, that's second.

That would have been second.

Physico.

Physical.

I performed for Olivia Wilde, never Olivia Newton-John.

What did you get?

Did you find out?

Yeah, do you want me to show you the list?

Oh, yeah.

It's not a trick.

I just want to see.

Olivia's number one.

Emma.

Emma.

Amelia.

Charlotte.

Charlotte.

Mia.

Mia.

Sophia.

Isabelle, Evelyn.

That's interesting.

Eight.

I would have never imagined that.

Right?

Eva, you did not hear those names when you were growing up.

There were probably no girls named Ava when you were a child.

No, none of any of these names.

Maybe Olivia after Olivia Newton John, but that's crazy.

Sophia is number 10.

That's interesting.

And Sophia is spelled two different ways, so it's technically number one.

Jamie.

Oh, really?

If I ask you.

Okay.

Oh, that's right.

It is.

It's spelled P-H-N-F.

Wow.

Interesting that Sophia is number one, really.

Huh.

Harper?

What's Harper?

11?

12?

Camila.

Camila, number 11?

That's nuts.

Eleanor?

Older names are coming back?

Yep.

Really older names.

Yeah, that's like Eleanor is like my friend Eleanor Kerrigan.

She's in her 50s.

Ileana?

Ileana's number 18?

That's crazy.

What are the odds?

Right?

What are the odds that if you told me, is Ileana in the top 20 of names?

I'm like, shut the fuck up.

Who names your kid that?

I think someone I know did.

It's a beautiful name.

Love that name.

It's a beautiful name.

It's not a bad name.

It's a beautiful name.

But it's like, it's like, I would have never thought it was that common.

So when you think of how this is happening, watch this.

Jamie, I ask you to come up with somebody absolutely random from your past.

Absolutely random.

I dug deep.

Okay.

You already got it?

Yeah.

You know what?

It's not a lot of words.

How do you know this person?

Oh, you shouldn't have said that.

Oh, I shouldn't have said a word.

You know what right away?

What did you say?

That's from preschool.

Preschool?

Somebody in preschool.

You still keep in touch?

That's where I met him.

No.

She said to him.

Why do you say him and then her?

I'm sorry, I met them, is what I guess I was trying to say.

This guy's playing the pronoun game.

What's going on here?

You know what?

No.

No, there's too many giveaways.

Just said it wasn't on the list, doesn't this?

Let me ask you a question.

Want to try again?

No, no, I'm going to do something better.

We'll switch.

This is a glitch in the matrix.

Dude.

Jamie, close your eyes.

Close your eyes.

You got to look?

Okay, so pretend you're closing your eyes.

I'm going to put you on the spot.

It's not the preschool girl.

I want you to close your eyes, go back in time, and try to picture the face.

I always call this the one that got your first big crush.

Can you visualize her face or you can't see her clearly?

You asked me this before, and it's like a, it's a tough question because the way you started wording, it was like, is this a first crush for me?

It was like the first person I knew.

There was like TV people and stuff like that.

Oh, is it a TV person?

That's what it would have been, technically, I guess.

Yeah.

Your first crush was a TV person.

Sure.

Yeah.

Someone and I saw on TV.

Is that right?

I think so.

Okay.

I guess.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know.

Is that.

I don't know.

I'm trying to.

If I were to ask you to look up how popular this name is, well, no, I'm not going to do it again.

It's not top 10.

Is that correct?

Right, it wasn't.

Okay, hold on.

Look this way at me.

I want you, without using your fingers, to count the number of letters in this person's name.

The real name or the the character's name i don't know if that matters i don't know i don't i i i've never had a fictional character as my first crush this guy got weird uh i don't know whatever i don't whatever name you went with i i don't say it out loud i'll go with the fictional don't say don't say it no no don't tell me what they weren't a real person then so you know

well i don't know

oh don't say oh no oh don't tell oh man don't tell him don't give me any more clues you're not gonna figure it out good all right

You know what?

Do this.

Joe, I want you to see this.

Should we get a piece of paper right down?

There's mics everywhere.

Okay.

Screw it.

Don't even write down.

Don't even write down.

No, no, not you.

I was going to have him write it down.

Okay.

Eight or nine.

Do me a favor.

Sure.

Count again, but to yourself.

Don't do it out loud.

Count to yourself.

What, the letters?

Yeah, don't do it out loud.

No, the eight or nine wasn't the letters.

But go ahead.

Yeah.

I'm so confused.

All right.

Good.

This got all over the place.

Jamie wants this to go wrong.

He does.

I do.

I don't know if this is the real name or the fake name anymore, but before today and me asking you to think of this person, be honest.

Would it have been days, months, or literally years before today since this person even crossed your thoughts?

Honestly, this would have been a couple months.

A couple months?

A couple months.

Could Joe know it?

No.

All right.

Mix up the letters

and stop like Scrabble tiles.

Freeze and grab out a letter somewhere in the name.

Maybe grab one out of the middle.

Okay.

You got it?

Sure.

He did too when he switched.

I was trying to look to you.

No, no, you did shifty eyes.

He did this one and then this one.

You didn't do a vowel, did you?

I don't know.

Well, you can tell me.

You did a vowel after all that?

AEIOU.

Look at me.

That's the first one I picked.

And you went to the end.

Do you think the last letter?

No.

The last letter is a vowel, though, isn't it?

Sometimes.

It is.

Here we go.

I'm going to show you.

Sometimes why?

Yeah, that's the only way it's

A-E-I-O-U, and sometimes why.

Take a look.

Don't say it.

Don't say it.

Okay.

I don't know.

This is who knows.

Was it nine letters?

The name is nine letters long, isn't it?

The real person's name is nine letters.

Yeah.

I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The real, and he hadn't thought of this person in months.

It doesn't in a vowel.

Yeah.

It does.

I know.

I saw it, and you switched the one.

And I wrote this down.

Joe, you see it, right?

I can't change it.

No trick here.

No BS.

What's her name?

This first crush.

Saw her on TV.

Her real name is Christine.

Christine is what I wrote down.

Christine is what I wrote down.

Her fake name is Melody from Hey Dude.

You don't have to tell me I know.

I know, Stan.

Christine Taylor.

How did you know?

There's this.

Wait, wait, hold on.

Right now, right now, I want to try this.

Here's what I want to try.

Joe, how many people?

How many people?

What just happened?

Wait, where did I put this?

Are you an alien?

Hold on.

Do you work for the CIA?

I got to take a leak like crazy, too.

Where's the bag?

Dude, I drank like two gators before I got in here for the run.

That was a mistake.

What bag?

There's a bag.

Oh, I didn't bring it.

You didn't bring it?

No.

Why don't you go pee and get it?

No, no, I've got it.

I've got it.

I've got it.

I've got it.

I've got it.

Look, I want you to do this.

I put together, this is for you.

Joe, take these,

50 people, chat GPT.

Okay.

Look through that list.

Okay.

And these are all people.

I didn't make this up.

I just wrote them down.

Okay.

Who have been on the show multiple times

and that or and that idea how would I describe this?

My guess is you have a personal connection.

You know these people.

Is that a fair assessment?

Rattle off.

If there's anybody in there that you feel is not fits the bill or you don't talk to them anymore, throw it away.

I don't care.

Okay.

Yeah, I know all these people.

You know these people?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Sure.

Not a trick.

I'm not going to guess who it is.

I wrote the list.

I know who they all are.

Got it.

I don't care.

You want to mix them?

You want to do something?

I don't care.

Whatever you want to do.

Once you mix them up or whatever you want to do, put them in front of you, please.

Like a pile.

Turn kind of.

Oh, you're not going to look because I don't want them to be like random.

Okay.

Kind of put them in front of you.

Kind of turn them sideways.

Turn again.

Well, I want to see what you're doing.

Okay.

And I think we're going to do this together.

I don't know if I'm going to reach over or not.

Okay.

Here's what I want you to do.

Okay.

I want you to take, I'm going to do it with you, is I want you to lift off like a chunk.

A chunk.

Yeah, like a chunk.

And put the chunk over.

Over here?

No, no, no, like next to you.

Okay.

Like,

I don't know.

How do I...

Can I move over with the mic or no?

Yeah, just come over here.

Yeah.

Take the headphones off.

Can I take them off or leave them on?

Take them off.

Take this.

Take this.

Okay.

Well, take, take the piece, and I want you to take, and the same way that I'm making a bunch of chunks like this, I want you to take, and I want you to be in charge of this.

So take these ones.

Okay.

And would you agree that's pretty randomized?

Very randomized.

Okay.

And I want to assess right now, there's five of them.

Okay.

Is take one of the piles.

Okay.

And put it like which other pile are you going with?

Another pile?

Like, point to another one.

Okay, this one?

How about this one?

Yeah, perfect.

And I want you, don't show me.

Okay.

I want you, like, grab that one.

All right.

The card.

The card on top?

Whatever you want.

Take it, grab it, and look at that person's name.

Okay.

And don't let me see it.

How likely, if you were to text this person, do you think would they answer?

100%.

Oh, you sure?

Yeah, 100%.

Most of the list was a guy.

Guys, is it a guy?

Yeah.

Okay, not judging.

A lot of dudes on the show.

Put them all back together.

Okay.

Let's assess this.

I don't want to know who it is.

I don't care who it is.

As long as I want to see, and and if they're not going to answer, I would tell you to text somebody new.

Text this person in your own words and say, I don't know,

God a minute, need a favor.

And see if he texts back.

If he doesn't, we go to somebody new.

We'll give it like, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes.

Okay.

Can I tell him what's going on?

I would hedge and not say yet because I want to see where he goes with it.

Because if you tell him, like, I, I don't care, but I want to keep this very,

I don't want him to know where we're going yet.

Okay.

Should I tell him to text me back?

Yeah, I guess text me back.

That works.

Hey, brother, do me a favor and text me back as soon as you get this.

It's going to sound like someone's dying, but okay.

That depends on it.

Okay.

All right, and put it down.

We'll revisit later.

Pressures.

Let's see.

Let's check back in a few minutes.

Okay.

Will it vibrate if you did?

No, I have it on.

Do not disturb, but I'll take it off.

There we go.

Okay.

He's very busy, so he might not be in front of his phone.

No worries.

If it doesn't go, we'll give it some time.

And if not, we'll switch gears.

Okay.

But turn your phone face down so you don't think I can see it.

I don't want to know who, what, where.

Alrighty.

We'll revisit.

We'll come back.

I'll put it on my lap so I feel it when it vibrates.

I'll pee later.

I'm holding it in, though.

I knew the Joe Rogan effect.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

Okay.

We're just going to sit here and wait for him.

No, no, no.

We'll check back in later.

That seems ridiculous.

Is it?

Yeah, because he could be working out.

He could be doing anything.

So if we get it, it's meant to be.

We'll see.

Okay.

It's not pressing.

You have an idea who it is?

I don't know.

I can look through the list again.

It's not Cam Haynes, is it?

After you send it to him.

Is someone popping into your head?

I'm not going to guess who it is.

Not at all?

No, because here's the reason why.

If we reveal stuff, I don't want you to.

If I guess like something...

very specific about this person that will like he might not want everyone to know his ATM pin code or social security number.

Oh, you're going to guess it.

I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I don't want, you could tip it, but he's going to be pretty pissed if everybody finds out something.

So I prefer if nobody knows yet.

But if we want to, you'll see.

Okay.

Okay.

Take it to the next level.

Jamie's in the room.

Right.

But what if we could just get anyone who you could have picked?

Anybody you know?

Right.

Now it's different.

Right.

Now it's never been done before.

Right.

You ask me, what do I wake up with thinking about?

How could I do this?

Yeah, how are you going to do this?

I don't know.

Let's see if it works.

Let's see if it works.

So,

okay,

oh, he got me.

He did, yeah.

Okay.

Here's the thing: I think that if I were you, I'd say later, well, texting, what if somebody saw something?

No, no, no.

I have an idea.

Don't give any clues yet.

If you're, there's microphones everywhere.

We just asked him to think of his first crush, but he did like someone fictional.

And like, that's okay.

Can I tell him I'm in the middle of a show?

Maybe say I'm in the middle of a show.

Okay.

Okay.

And say,

we're doing a bit.

Do you want to call him?

Because if you're texting this, do you want to call him or do you want to text him?

Well, if I call him, people are going to hear his voice.

No, but what if you call him and you just go over there?

Which one's better to you?

Which one's more impossible?

Where later you go, there's just no freaking way.

Is it better if he texts you or is it better if he calls you?

What do you think is just more impossible?

I could have him call me.

Yeah, why not?

Do this.

Have him call you in a second.

You'll go over there where there's no microphone.

And I want you to ask this guy the same question I asked Jamie.

Do you remember the name of the first girl you had a big crush on?

And sometimes people don't remember.

I just want you to know I've done this a lot.

Should I ask him that?

Not yet.

I would do it on the phone.

Okay.

Yeah, screw it.

Ask him that.

Okay.

Do.

Okay, hold on a second.

I should have just did it with voice.

No, no, because then, well, yeah.

Nobody's listening to this, I'm sure.

No, but I mean, it's quicker.

Don't tell me what he says.

Okay.

If he says no, a lot of people don't remember this question.

Okay.

So then I hedge and I go, well,

who's the first girl you ever kissed?

Let's see.

But make sure there's absolutely no way I can see what's on your phone right now.

You can't really.

Boom, get that type of thing.

You can't see, bitch.

Just get mad.

Okay.

Does he know or he doesn't know?

He knows?

Yep, right away.

Did he tell you?

Yep.

No shit.

Yep.

Ask him, is it the same as the first girl he ever kissed?

Okay.

See what he says.

Here we go.

No.

Does he remember her name too?

Okay.

Here we go.

Yep.

It's two weeks ago, right?

No, I'm kidding.

Put it away.

You have two names in your head.

Okay.

Can we establish the fact that you have 50 people that have been on your show?

Yes.

That you took anybody.

Right.

If this person would have texted back, text somebody else.

I don't care who it is.

There is no conceivable way.

This isn't a bank that gave you a number.

Right.

And if he didn't know who it is, we would have done something different.

I don't care.

Put the phone away.

Okay.

How am I going to do this?

How are you going to do this?

How am I going to do this?

Right?

And he said, what happens when it goes wrong?

Nothing.

I'm not getting paid to be here.

I don't care.

You're freaking me out.

Think of both names.

They're different.

He had two different people.

Yes.

The same way that you did 2020, and you didn't know, think of both names.

And I want me to juggle back and forth between the two, the first kiss and the first crush.

Okay.

And

is one name more interesting to you or like they're equal?

Or is one name more interesting or not really?

Not really.

Okay.

So you don't like, if you gravitate, I would would have been like, go to one.

Okay.

Count the number of letters in the first crush.

To yourself.

Don't use your fingers.

I can see.

Count the number of letters to yourself or the first crush.

I did that to psych you out.

Yeah.

I started doing those.

And then count the number of letters in the first kiss.

Oh, you looked up.

Interesting.

They're not equal.

Can you agree with me?

They're not the same amount of letters, are they?

No, they're not.

No, see, because you would have had the same reaction.

Do you know when you put somebody in a polygraph test?

Have you ever been polygraphed?

No.

They can't just ask you the questions right away.

They can't because they first have to get your benchmark.

Same way blood doping, you got to test someone's blood against their blood.

People have different amounts of testosterone naturally.

So I had to see how you would do each one.

And then you did the thing with the eyes to throw me off.

The first crush

is that name shorter than the first kiss?

Yes.

Yeah.

Go to the first crush.

I'm going to go with that one.

Less work for me.

Okay.

One more time.

Count the letters.

Okay.

And you were trying to avoid it.

Six letters.

Is that name six letters?

Yes.

Yeah.

Mix up all the letters in that first crush's name.

Forget the first kiss.

Scrap it.

Okay.

And pick any one in your head.

You got one?

Got it.

Jamie gave me a gift on a platter.

Thought of a vowel.

When he did that, it was 100% you wouldn't pick a vowel later.

You didn't do a vowel in the name, did you?

No,

dude, I'm here for a reason, right?

I haven't done this.

I've been doing this for a long time.

Right?

Told you.

Goal is to be the best in the world at this.

Okay.

I have watched, I know everything you just did.

Second letter.

Do you think a second letter?

I will.

Mmm.

M.

Amanda.

Is the name Amanda?

Yes.

What the fuck did you say?

And you will talk about this for years.

Hold on.

I'm texting him back.

Can you figure out the second one?

No, I'm done, man.

Come on.

Showbiz.

You do your closer, you drop the mic, and you pick the mic back up.

Never.

Do you want to know who it was?

No, I don't want to know.

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My friend said, You're a witch.

And he said, kill him now.

Fuck, I know who it is.

Definitely a comedian.

Definitely a comedian after that.

It's definitely a comedian.

It might not be.

I hang out with a lot of weird people.

Yeah.

I don't know how to go back to conversation mode.

Am I right?

And I got pissed like a race horse.

What do I do?

Go pee.

Do I pee or no?

Do we keep going?

Do we go strong?

With this?

No, I'm just saying.

We'll recalibrate.

You can pee.

It's always easier to pee.

Is that all right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's perfect because you don't want to.

It's too hard to form sentences when you have to pee.

All right, I'm going to take a quick break.

Quick break.

We'll break it.

Rapid fire.

Are we back?

We're back.

Lightning.

I feel like

brand new.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I know the feeling.

I was sitting on it.

You rehydrate.

And I drank so much Gatorade right before, and I was like, oh, party foul.

Should have thought that went through.

27 miles.

You deserve a little Gatorade.

So, do you want to know who it was yet?

It's up to you.

I like

hanging thread, but it's up to you.

But what is the purpose of hanging the thread?

No, I guess tell us at the end.

Can you tell me who it is?

I could, but it comes in.

No, I'll tell you at the end.

Okay.

You already gave the comedian.

You said this.

No, it's a comedian.

He's a witch.

Kill him.

100%.

100%.

That's not Ben Shapiro.

You know what I'm saying?

Did you say witch?

Did he tell you?

No, no, no.

I took the quickest pee of my life.

I raced over it.

I didn't tell him.

You didn't tell him?

No.

I don't want him to know.

Do you think that there's people that knew this shit back in the days of witches?

They figured out some of the powers, maybe not powers.

I think that 100%

psychics of the past used a lot of the same techniques I'm using.

Because when I watch psychics, and I have people always tell me at certain things, they tell me, like, oh you know I saw a psychic do this and this and this and I hear it and I go to myself you know I could do that same trick and I could no offense do it better but think about it I'm doing this right now from with an ethical compass versus if I go oh I'm getting this and I thought about this and this is what happened with your dad and you're like oh my god you know I'm like well it's only 25 grand more to have a private session let's talk to him a little bit more

right

I'm not saying there's nobody psychic I'm telling you that a lot of the psychics I'm watching them like I know how you're doing that that was my other question that's gonna be has any have you caught anyone trying to get some stuff by you?

Like, I don't know.

Like a psychic?

Not a psychic.

You're buying a car and someone's trying to pull some trick on you.

Like, I know what you're about to do here.

Well, 100%.

You know, not a shameless plug, but like I literally write, I just wrote a book.

It's coming out in October where it's all about, it's called Read Your Mind.

And it's not me telling you how to be a mentalist because 99.9% of people don't want to guess a first crush.

It's not useful to you in your life.

What if you could read people more effectively to help you in your life, at home, at work, in relationships?

That is a quantifiable thing that the tools of a mentalist, when not used for entertainment, but in life, day to day, are extraordinary.

For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you must be great at all kinds of things because of this.

I don't know about that.

You think dealing with human beings.

Right.

Negotiating.

Oh, I would imagine.

I've never sold a property at a loss.

Let's just say that.

It's been pretty good so far.

You get in there, you're like, I won't take a dollar less.

I'm like, I know you will.

I know you will.

That's funny.

That's funny.

What a weird skill to have.

Right?

What's a good book?

A good book?

To read on this.

Well, on becoming a mentalist or

on any of these skills.

Like, what did you start with?

Do you remember the book you started with?

Do you mean if you want to learn how to do mentalism?

Do you remember the book that you started with when you first started learning this stuff?

So the first book I started reading was a book called 13 Steps to Mentalism.

But man, is it going to be tough for most people because it was written in the 1920s?

So it's kind of like, you know, it's like watching an old movie, no offense to old movies, but I'm like, oh, it's hard to get into this with my attention span now because it's antiquated.

Some of it still applies, but you have to really do a big reach to know how do I apply this?

Because back then there were no TVs.

There were no phones.

There's no, it just, that's what I started with, but I had to learn the hard way.

So much of what I do now is, again, I told you, I don't really do what other people do because

I don't explain.

It's.

They create different, right?

If you are building a house and you have all these tools, you're going to build using your tools.

Does that make sense?

So I've got this set of tools.

I knew a hammer does this.

I do that.

I create what the house already built.

So my vision, again, and why, what's been a differentiating feature is I build with the person at the end in mind.

And I already know what the house is going to be.

I know what the memory.

I know what you're going to say.

Like CNBC, do you ever watch that channel?

I try not to.

So CNBC, Fox Business are financial channels.

I have been on those channels dozens of times.

How many other mentalists or magicians have ever been on them?

Zero.

Why is that?

Because it's unusual.

That's a serious network.

Why do you put me on?

Because I do stuff around the markets.

And so if you're watching it, you buy in because my stuff's about stock market, interest rates, all stuff.

And it's like, this is crazy, but it had to do with stuff I know.

So the same thing.

When I do ESPN, I'm creating from a different perspective than most.

I customize the content.

Like when I do a corporate event, I learn in and out your business.

And when I go up there, I sneak in the medicine.

So now

you're actually, your people aren't just seeing a show.

They're getting messaging and they're getting it in a way where they don't tune out because they don't realize they're being spoken to.

It's mostly entertainment.

But boom, I planted those thoughts and you leave there with, you know, what's the product launch?

What's this?

All those things are now internalized and remembered.

Whoa.

And this 13 steps that was said it was written in the 1920s?

Oh, fact check me, but I think it was the 20s.

What did this guy do?

What was his job?

He was a mentalist?

Yeah, but there were no mentalists back then.

There were just a few people.

But they was mostly, they were telling you the skills of psychics.

They were showing you how psychics did stuff.

And it wasn't really debunking, but they're showing you all the tools, the 13 steps.

Like, what are the ways that we can read people more effectively?

And what are the tricks of the trade of what we do?

Right?

Like, how do you

know when someone's counting something like that, right?

And you're counting the letters.

You know, because to me, you might as well be playing drums.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Like, if you're playing drums and I have an ear for it, I can hear the beats.

So once you learn how to do certain things, they build on top.

I can, if you're counting letters, like again,

names are anywhere from three to 12 letters.

It's not rocket science for me to figure it out.

And again, I can't do it in a vacuum.

If you turned your back and said, I'm not, no, I'm not doing anything.

Again, if you controlled the environment, I can't do it as well.

Right.

It goes back to that fear thing.

If I started messing up right now, you'd be like, oh, it's getting awkward.

And you would pull back and I wouldn't be in control anymore.

So like a lot of what I'm doing is

I'm

showing you how I can read you, but also you're allowing yourself to be read.

Right.

So like when you're saying count the letters, you can see me counting them.

I can see when you're counting.

I can see when you try to throw me off the count.

It's like a poker player.

A poker player knows if you really have aces, pocket aces, or you have two, four and you're bluffing.

The best ones do.

Which brings the question up, why don't I play poker more?

Yeah, why don't you play poker?

It's just, it's too boring.

Like I, I,

that's a grind, man.

I'd rather make money doing this.

This is one and a half speed.

Yeah.

Your whole life is one and a half speed.

That's wild.

That's really interesting.

I'm fascinated.

No, I think I want to read one of those books.

I'm going to probably get that one.

I'm going to send you one.

I'll try and find a better one.

Well, that one seems interesting, too, because I want to read the origins.

I want to read it like when it first started out.

Like, what was it like in 1920?

Like, what did he learn and where did he learn it?

Is this it?

You find it?

Yeah.

1950-ish or so.

Oh, 19.

Well, but it's also not known.

This is the guy?

Yeah.

So he's born in the 1930s.

Oh, I screwed this up.

It was in 1920.

So, no, the other one's 13 Steps.

There's another one by Theodore Adams.

He did not make his birthplace public.

God, you fucking sneaky bitch.

He's a sneaky bitch.

He's the first mentalist, and he's sneaky.

Those believed to have been Mill Hill suburb of London for unknown reasons.

He renamed himself Tony Cornita.

Corintha.

Corinda.

Tony Cornida.

Corinda.

So he's born Thomas William Simpson, and he renamed himself for some reason Tony Corinda, a variation of the surname Conrady,

when he began working as a mentalist.

In 1950, he opened up a shop where he sold all manner of stage magic goods, but catered especially to mentalists.

He later took over the magic shop on Oxford Street.

His shop was at street level and thus catered mainly to the regular public, so that many of the items sold were either practical jokes or beginner's tricks.

But items for semi-professional magicians and hobbyists were also sold.

Around the same period, Corinda had the magic concession in Hambley's toy shop on on Regent Street.

Interesting.

So the book, 13 Steps to Mentalism, was in 1961.

So he wrote a series of 13 booklets on mentalism between 56 and 58,

each one dealing with a different aspect of mentalism or allied art.

Interesting.

I'm getting you a copy.

I am.

I'll buy it.

Is it reprinted or is it one of those ones you have to do?

It's definitely reprinted.

And see, it's since become a viewer of the essential mentalism reference book.

But again, you're going to have a big problem because you're going to read that book.

And if you make it through to the end, which God bless you, if you can, you're going to be like, yeah, but how the hell did you do all this stuff?

It's not going to, you're going to get to the end of it and be like, so it's, that's baby steps.

And then you've got to like

get to the next level.

No, I'm sure.

I'm not thinking I'm going to get all the information from that.

But I'm curious as to like what the origins of it was.

Like, how did this guy devise these things?

Like, how did he figure it out?

Psychics.

So it's again, people with psychics want to believe.

Anyone who's in that room who paid that money to hear psychic has someone they've lost and they want something with them because there's, you know.

Do you believe in any psychic powers at all?

So again, I'm not like a debunker because I'm kind of like agnostic in this thing, which is I just believe what I've seen so far.

And in a lot of instances, I've never personally experienced something that I couldn't explain yet, but a lot of people have told me their experiences.

Have you heard of the telepathy tapes?

Yeah.

So that.

I know you had her in here, but that's, have you watched the videos?

I mean, come on.

Yeah, that's wild.

No, no, I'm the opposite.

I do not think that's real.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, really?

No.

Why?

Well, if you don't.

Tell me about what the videos are.

Can we show the videos?

Well, I don't know if he's got the paywall.

Again, I don't want to be controversial, but

they're holding in many instances in that form of communication.

The person who knows the information is holding the letters.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

So right now, if I had shown you a word, And you're either touching somebody, right?

You could get, do you know what a two-person code act is?

No.

So a two-person code act is like a mentalist thing with two people.

There's a few that are the best in the world, Avisons, Mind to Mine in Dubai, like a few really good ones who've done this.

And what they do is they can be blindfolded in a different area.

And anything you hand to them, anything you say, the other person knows it.

No electronics, no nothing.

They just look at your credit card and they'll guess the credit card numbers.

And the way that's being done is they're communicating to each other based on pauses, based on like a million ways that you can't think of.

It's the best code act ever without speaking.

And you'll watch it and you'll be like, there's no way they're communicating, but they are.

And so it looks like telepathy, but it's not.

You get them in the room with scientists, you'll fool every scientist under the sun.

What they're doing is like not bulletproof at all with the kids.

And again, God bless, if I had a child in that condition, I, for not one moment, wouldn't want a solution.

And I would want something to know that they're not, that they're in there and I could talk to them.

I don't want to speak out of turn.

But from the videos I've seen, I can explain that in a minute.

They are moving things around and positioning the letters.

If you do a double-blind study where the person does not know the word that they're trying to communicate, I'm not even saying psychic.

Just don't tell them the word, the person holding it, and only show the word to the person who should be saying it, right?

If you're the autistic child, show them the word so their eyes see it, and then have them type that word in and do that for me nine out of ten times.

And they've not been able to do that.

That's not even psychic.

That's just show me that you can type the word in that you saw.

And so when you do like a deep dive on that, it's been...

She offered to have someone come in with their parent and do that.

Would you do that with us?

Sure.

So you could like.

So

I don't want to take anyone's hope away.

I'm a parent.

And like, again, I don't think they're making money on it.

And I like, I'm very...

I don't like to...

Again, when you ask me psychics, there's people who had real deep experiences.

And who is it for me to take that away?

But when I watch that and you're like talking to somebody who's a pro at doing this, same as psychics, I can see exactly how that's done.

But what did you think about their ability to read read languages that they've never studied?

So again, you're missing it.

So that's, again, the devil's in the details.

Okay.

It's the memory, what you remember of the story.

Show me how they did that.

Did either of the people there present know that language, who was doing it?

And how was that being communicated?

Did the end person who's moving the board around know what the meaning of the word was?

Do you understand what I mean?

Yes.

So.

Like, again, you're hearing the Cliff's notes, the end edition.

Watch the video and show me something that I can't.

There was nothing nothing I saw in that special or that, in that telepathy tape in the videos that I couldn't readily explain.

Really?

That's correct.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

So could it be right?

Yes.

I'm not saying it's not.

I'm not, again, they could be 100% right and I could be 100% wrong.

Hubris.

Right.

I haven't been in the room with them.

I'm judging simply from videos I've seen.

But as someone who is for a living, pretending to read people's minds, but I'm actually reading people, I can see how it's being done.

Interesting.

The method, method, it's kind of like a casino boss.

I see how that person's cheating when they're playing cards because I know all the cheating methods.

Interesting.

The other thing that they said was these kids all have this area that they go to called the hill.

Yep.

They go to their, what do you think of that?

So again, I heard it.

It was unbelievable.

Like the podcast was incredible.

I don't know.

I don't like I.

You know, I've heard psychics tell me, people tell me I saw psychic.

And how do you know that my friend died after we saw Grateful Dead concert and did it?

I'm like, well, I don't know.

I'm seeing a lot of stuff on you that looks Grateful Dead vibes.

Like, like if I told you that you're a big Roger Waters fan, you'd be like, how did you know that right now?

So for everyone not looking, Joe's wearing a Pink Floyd shirt.

Like you can, you can figure out a lot of stuff based on cold reading.

I can see what's the wear on your wedding band.

How do you behave?

What are certain things?

When do you pause at a certain moment about certain things?

Did you lose someone?

I can tell instantly if you're having a feeling of emotion.

Like anyone good at this, and not even great, but like good, can notice a lot of things.

Like a psychic just watches watches you so you can kind of tell like what a person's done that day well i think you can get like you can guide them to what you want which is when you get a hit right think of that game when you're a kid hot cold you hide stuff right right your brother or sister looks around they go cold do you think i woke up early today or late i don't know

there's no on-demand feature to the show there's no i think you woke up early though Really?

Yeah.

Why do you think that?

I don't know.

Just based on what you said it?

Nope.

Nope.

Good.

I got it wrong.

I'm happy.

I'm happy.

You'll you'll be like we screwed this guy finally we got o's and it was with a 50 50.

that was yeah that was just a rando coin flip yeah that was you know we'll do a coin flip before i leave okay

who has coins anymore i brought one coin i heard that there's a penny that's in circulation that's worth millions of dollars i heard that too yeah that wheat penny the one with the wheat on the side my buddy lewis house had i saw that on my social he found one really i think so whoa it's fucking super valuable worth millions i'd be like give me that wheat penny that's crazy a penny worth millions um

okay so what's in the um

the one that's sealed that package no that's a that's nothing i was gonna i was gonna get it out but i'll do it later as a gift not later no it's something silly why do i not believe you no i swear i swear i thought i would have it out but no

you thought you'd have it out but you don't want to have it out not the right fit what do you mean no i was going to do something you had a lot of books here and i thought we'd get a book but like eh i don't think i'm going to do it just doesn't feel right no what feels wrong Self-curate.

I don't know.

It's not going to work.

You got to go on instant?

You got to go on instant.

It's not going to work.

It's not going to work.

Nope.

What was the goal to get it to work?

You could say it now since we're not going to do it.

The goal to get it to work was I thought I had some sort of, I thought I know if I get you to get a book, we have less books in this room.

We have books in that room.

I just,

I don't know.

I brought it in.

I always have a backup plan, plan A, B, C.

And this one's not meant for this one.

This one might be if I ever come back and do another

JRE.

We'll put it in the safe.

Okay.

Okay.

Do it.

Okay.

That's a great idea.

Yeah, we'll put it in the safe.

Put it in the safe.

I'll never touch it again.

Okay, we won't touch it either.

Let's make sure that we know it's sealed.

You know what I mean?

Two bricks of cocaine.

You're in big trouble.

No.

We should get a wax seal.

Yeah.

You know, like Game of Thrones style.

Let's do it.

Let's seal it.

I love that show.

Great show.

Yeah.

We can't play this, but I found one of the tapes that someone put on YouTube.

Do you want to?

It's only a one-minute class.

All right, let's watch it for us.

Let's watch it for us.

We can't play it because it's copyright.

If you right now got the best two-person codec in the world in here, they would do nothing.

She would literally be in another, she could be 100 feet away behind this person's back because she's touching

touching, moving.

I mean, like, those are for letters.

You only have 26 options.

Do you have any idea what this is right there?

Somebody effective right now, just this right now, and pausing before they say a word, could have given you a full credit card number, right?

Insane.

She's kind of moving him a little bit.

Moving him, like if you could, if you can, how do you compress data, right?

Like, if you do hexadecimal or ASCII, you could take a 16-digit number and break it down into three letters.

Do you ever see the movie The Martian?

Yes.

Great movie, right?

Yeah.

Another Matt Damon reference.

Yeah.

Love Matt Damon, by the way.

Me too.

Has he been on here?

No.

Such a good dude.

Yeah, I talked to somebody about getting him on.

Like, he was going to reach out.

We're going to do it eventually, I'm sure.

I love that guy.

He's awesome.

Met him a couple times.

Love him.

As nice as you'd expect.

So if you can, in that movie, in The Martian, he didn't know how to send data because he only had the camera.

So he shows a thing where he figured out how to take and compress big things into small.

What's the easiest way?

You can make it very small so you can send information in a certain way.

Again, I don't want to blow anything to cover, but there is absolutely when I see that, I know exactly how it's being done, but I don't know if she's doing it on purpose.

I think they've just learned each other's rhythms, and that's an H and oh, okay, go, you know, like you gotta have her in a different room, right?

Right, right.

Read my mind, read my mind through a door.

Haven't they done stuff in a different room, though?

Didn't Kai Dickens didn't?

She said

in particular, that another magician actually told me that they had an issue watching that particular kid's videos.

They thought that those two were doing something funny.

Yep.

Clearly.

But that's what I, the other videos, I don't know.

They're behind a paywall.

You have to get to them.

That's it.

That's the sneaky biz.

Because everyone that sees the paywall,

I had a couple sent to me, and I'm like, because people asked me this, and they were like, what do you think, man?

And I listened to all of the tapes.

I thought it was amazing.

It got a little wild at the end if you got to the end, like the hill and that.

And you want to believe.

Who doesn't want to believe that?

There's psychics amongst us, and especially kind of like the superhero story of all.

these are kids who nobody thought was in there and they're really in there and they're communicating with each other it's it's i mean so it's essentially just you're saying that instead of psychic energy there's a sense of like a kind of micro communication you know what and very simple people want to believe and so you kind of have confirmation bias looking at the evidence you want to believe kai dickens clearly wanted to believe just super simple have a mentalist and maybe a scientist involved and a mentalist is better than a scientist because scientists will they can watch me and they'll be like i don't know how he's doing it right we're designed We're literally, it's like get a card sheet to beat other card sheets.

Right.

So get me involved.

Yeah.

And then let's do the same thing.

And I'm going to say, here are the three things I need you to do different.

And I'm not going to say how you're doing it, but do it with these three things.

And if you do that, I'm convinced.

Hmm.

Okay.

We might have to set this up.

Yeah.

I wonder if it would be.

But the problem is, is that exactly there's very little to gain from that.

And then also we got bad energy in the room, right?

That's the whole thing.

Do you ever see when Uri Geller was debunked by the amazing Randy on Johnny Carson and he couldn't bend the spoons and he goes, I can't do it with him here.

He's got bad energy.

It's not, and it's like,

you know, is it bad energy or is this a guy who knows how you're bending the spoons?

Right.

And so every time you're about to do a move, he's like a SOB.

He was like, stop right there.

Don't move your hand.

Keep the spoon right there.

Don't, don't, no, no, don't look away.

It's like my nightmare.

I had a guy show me how they do the spoons.

Yeah.

We had a guy demonstrate magic and he goes, I could show you how to do this one.

Yeah.

And it was like a different kind of spoon.

It wasn't a regular spoon.

No, no, you could do with real spoons.

I could do any spoon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You could bend it it with your mind.

I mean, again, I don't want to knock it, but that's more of a, it's not really, it's not a psychic power.

That falls more into the category of a magic trick where

you're misdirecting people.

You're doing something else where

I'm not really bending a spoon with my mind.

There's not supernatural powers involved.

I can't lie to you and say that.

I'm doing it in such a way where you don't know the method.

And it's layered, but it's sure going to look like it's bending by itself, but it's not.

This guy was saying that's a kind of metal that as he moves his hand around, he heats it up.

Yeah, he's lying to you.

Really?

Damn, motherfucker.

He lied because he didn't want to tell me how he does it.

Oh, yeah.

Oh,

damn it.

Yeah.

Got me again.

Got you.

You must enjoy getting people, though.

Even the spark lights in your face when you're accurate.

It's really fun to watch.

I hope it's contagious, but I enjoy watching reactions.

Yeah, clearly.

That's the rush, right?

Laughs.

Do you not love laughs?

Of course, yeah.

You ever go into a room and nobody's laughing and you just bomb and you just eat it?

It's like not fun.

How often do you bomb anymore?

New jokes bomb.

So you'll bomb for chunks.

You bomb in segments.

You know, you have to figure out how a bit works.

And sometimes you try a bit in a way, like in the middle of it, you're like, ooh, this is not the way.

And then you have to kind of adjust.

And you're doing a lot of sets at the mothership, I see.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how much do you get allowances?

What's the clock for being Joe Rogan before it's like, oh no, let's just see if you're funny as a person?

Where does that end?

You got to be funny pretty quick.

You think so?

Yeah, people are good for like a minute.

Yeah.

They're happy to see you for like a minute.

It's only a minute, huh?

Yeah, not much time, man.

Jerry Seinfeld talked about that once.

He's like, being famous buys you about 30 seconds.

Oh, I thought it's more.

That's what he said.

No, no, especially on a night filled with like really top-notch comedians, right?

Which

is the mothership every night.

It's all a bunch of killers.

So you got to be.

But that's also why we do it that way.

You know, the one thing that's really bad for comedians comedians is when they start only doing their crowds so like they do it on the road and they do large places and then they have the same opening act over and over again so they're never challenged right yeah that that makes people soft 90 of the time i made that number up i don't know what the real number is but it's like a high number you know because you get soft right yeah I did, this is funny.

So I used to go to the comedy cellar.

I told you, I love comedy, like aficionado.

I lived in the village for, I don't know, years, and this is pre-kids, a lot more time on my hands.

We used to go to the cellar when you could get in the cellar like that.

Now, good luck.

Right.

And we would see just everybody over and over.

And

I think you met him on Mike Vecchione.

Sure.

So good, man.

Very funny guy.

Great guy.

God.

So great guy.

Amazing.

Super fun.

And he went on on a night where it was just like dropping, dropping, dropping.

And he had to follow Seinfeld.

And Seinfeld goes on and just hammers it.

And then Mike Vecchion comes on.

And you know the bathroom in in the cellar, right?

Which is about the size of like a quarter of this table where you're touching arms when you're taking a leak next to some dude.

I went in there and I was quite drunk.

And I'll never forget this.

I've worked with Mike since, and I was telling him, dude, you probably don't remember me, but I was such a drunk idiot.

And we were touching arms while we're peeing.

And I always felt bad about this.

I'm so drunk.

I'm like, dude, forget Seinfeld.

You killed it.

He's like, stop talking to me while we're peeing.

I had crossed that threshold.

And I tried to ask him, like, because we did a gig together.

And he opened for me.

And I was like, do you, is there any chance you you remember?

He's like, dude, so many drunk idiots have been next to me at the cellar telling me stuff.

I'm like, the night where you dropped, you know, that, that trying to see if you remember it.

Right.

And I wanted to apologize for it because I felt so bad.

And I'm like, I was talking to you while you were pissing.

And dude, I just loved you so much.

And he had forgotten.

He didn't even know this moment.

But I'm like, I've been holding this weight for a while, Mike, and I'm a big fan.

And I'm sorry I talked to you while we both had our dicks out.

It was not okay.

It is not okay.

There's a line in the sand that I have just crossed, brother.

That's hilarious.

And he forgot about it as well.

He didn't.

No, dude.

I mean, it's like when I have gigs where people come back to me and three years later, like, dude, do you remember this thing?

And I go, of course I do.

Yes.

No,

most of the time you don't remember.

You try.

I remember the best and the worst, man.

I remember some moments where I've bombed so bad that it is seared in your DNA.

You know that feeling?

Oh, yeah.

And it's usually ones where you're not to blame, but the buck stops here.

You know what I'm saying?

Like where the setup is terrible, the outdoor gig.

I had one where, God, it was like the town of Charlotte or some town hired me, some city, and I had to

insert all these data points about the city.

And we're like, normally we do two or three things.

I will mention two or three things in the course of a show.

And if it's 10 minutes, forget it.

I don't want to be a salesperson up there.

People tune out.

If they're like, what are you selling me something right now?

Right.

And I had to say eight or nine things about the town of, was it Charlotte?

And at the last moment, we do dress reversal go, by the way, we're all dressing as genies, and we're going to have a life-size genie lamp on stage, and it's going to start doing smoke while you're doing this.

I'm like, I don't really like any of these things, but I was newer to show because I'm like, I go with it.

The whole time I'm on stage, the smoke is going like at 100%.

We're coughing.

It's going terrible.

I can't see the person whose mind I'm reading.

I'm sweating.

I'm trying to talk about the Billy Graham Museum.

I'm dying a slow death up there.

I get two things in a row wrong.

And and you know if you bomb your opener and your closer like you're dead

i left apologizing you never want to leave a stage apologize they somehow still loved it i don't even know how but i i sweated through that suit it was like i i

you know when you question what you're doing in life yeah that was like a question i'm like maybe i'm not supposed to be doing this well also you probably say okay never doing that kind of setup again kind of but me i more catastrophize and i'm like yeah i should just be done but then i came back i came came back I picked myself up to yeah funny enough tomorrow's my my my one of my daughter's fifth birthday and I'm doing a show at school for five-year-olds oh wow yeah man I gotta get back but uh sweetheart this is like the sweet spot where they still think I'm cool that's cool before I'm gonna be like don't do this and embarrass us dad right and last year for my oldest son who was at the time I just turned eight I did his school second graders and dude they ate me alive really because I'm not doing this like this is you know my sweet spot as mentalists I had to brush off the dust of my kids' show, which I haven't touched in like 25 years.

Thank God I'm not doing kids' shows anymore.

No offense to kids' show magicians, but like that's that ship has sailed.

And man, second graders are ruthless.

Really?

Ruthless.

Why second graders?

Because

I don't know, man.

Like, like one kid, I...

I finished this show, okay?

And during the show, my wife is in the room recording.

I'm like, don't record, don't record.

And

I had to like look at my wife at one point and I whispered, this is a nightmare.

Because one kid's like, it's in your hand.

Show me that.

Show me that.

And I'm like, dude, shut up.

And I'm not good at it.

I haven't done it in a while.

Right.

So I'm just bombing on tricks.

And thankfully, 95% of the crowd actually liked it.

It was just these two kids who just got me.

And when I went home, one of my neighbors saw me and he goes to me, he goes, oh my God, what's wrong?

Are you okay?

Because my face was like ash and white.

He thought somebody died.

And I'm like, dude, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't even know what to say right now.

Like, I, maybe I shouldn't be doing this.

I had to at one point tell the teacher, I'm like, I'm actually, like, I'm, I actually do this for a living.

I'm feeling like I had to try to flex.

I'm like, I have an Emmy.

Like, I wanted to let them know I'm not actually this bad.

Like, I

that's hilarious.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

Oh.

Don't you think comedy is kind of a bit of hypnotizing people?

Oh, yeah.

The best comedians, the pacing, the rhythm.

Like, I was watching a Tom Segura special this morning.

I don't know how well you know his material.

I mean, you know him well, but like he had a bit about flying first class.

Do you remember that one?

I don't.

Oh, he talks about,

I don't think he's using his material anymore.

The fact that he gets upgraded.

He buys coach tickets.

It was early.

It was years ago.

And he gets upgraded so much that he gets first class tickets.

And he goes, Should I not say this bit?

I don't know if I want to tell you this bit.

And he goes, literally, the moment I get upgraded, this feeling of superiority washes over me where I'm like, don't, when people are walking, don't look at me, you poor pieces of shit.

Like, he's just so, he goes, I dare you if you're in coach to try to use my bathroom if I'm in the front.

I will put my hand on your chest, bro.

I've seen that a hundred times, and it's just as funny, if not funnier, every time I watch it.

And it's like the timing, the rhythm.

I learned more from comedy than ever magic or mentalism.

Way more.

Interesting.

Because we've talked about it a bunch.

Comics, I'm like, I think we're hypnotizing people because I feel hypnotized when someone's killing.

When someone's killing, I'm allowing them to think for me.

Yep.

You know, like they're taking me on a ride.

And and I'm just, I'm not thinking at all about what would I say, what would I do.

I'm just in their head, or they're in my head.

Right.

And also when you bring someone along and when you have that, like, just, you drop just amazing line.

Like,

just, there's so many.

I mean, listen, I, I consume so much comedy, but like, I love watching the rhythm, seeing where people go with it, the people that are more short form, like.

punch delivery,

right?

Versus like a long form, like a Nate Bargazzi, like watching Andrew do his things.

Shawl's amazing.

Man, some of these guys are just like, you can't see where the joke is going to come and how you just squeeze every bit of juice out of the orange and the good callbacks.

I think the ultimate hypnotist is David Tell.

Oh, yeah, David Tell.

Dave, because David, there's a rhythm.

There's a rhythm the way he does.

It's like you just get lost in his thinking.

Right.

And he just takes you on the street.

And he's so effortless.

And he does so many sets.

Like, he's so polished that there's like this effortlessness to his movements and the rhythm and everything it's like it's wild oh i like sebastian maniscalco i just freaking love watching sebastian there's so many there's so many people that came up now that i've seen like over and over and over and just watched them go up like sam murille i've been a fan of sebastian was actually the first guy to recommend you to me

i love sebastian shout out to sebastian i love you sebastian yeah was there anyone else after that uh caught a couple people told me you were awesome nice quite a few no sebastian's such a stand-up guy this friend of mine when i i told him that it's it's shane gillis isn't it it is yeah

you just thought of it you shouldn't let let down your guard.

I just knew it.

How'd you know?

That was it.

That was the moment.

What did you see?

I can't tell you.

Right when you said this friend of mine, I knew you were going to protect your parks.

And I said, could have been Ari, could have been Mark.

And I immediately knew it was going to be Shane Gillis because neither of those two would have said, definitely not Mark, would have said, kill him.

He's a witch.

I just knew it.

Yep, that's Shane.

That's such a sense of humor, too.

He's a witch.

Kill him.

Yeah, that's so Shane.

That's so Shane.

yeah that was a little bit of a giveaway because i said it was my friend yep that is yeah that was the giveaway that was the giveaway because i didn't tell you it's someone though you said 100 so now i'm thinking like he must live in austin like there was a lot of lot of indicators yeah

whatever but that's part of the thing right but that's also you admitting that this isn't like

supernatural.

I'm not psychic.

So everybody, when people put me on the spot and like, tell me this right now, I literally go, it's not Netflix, no on-demand feature.

Like I, again, that's where these skills, when people are like, why don't you win the lottery?

Why don't you, like, all these things that are silly where you don't get what I do, apparently.

Do you believe that there is any sort of psychic power that people have?

Like, when, when someone gets a phone call from someone, they're just thinking about intuition.

Right.

I think there's, I think there's, I mean,

that's like a bigger picture question.

Like, you know, where does your mind expand?

Like, psychedelics, like, where, where, what is there beyond this plane that clearly, you know, people are aware of?

It'd be silly to think, but how do you kind of get on that frequency?

There's no question that people have an intuition.

Again, could I call it psychic powers?

I've had things happen that I can't explain to you based on the skills I have.

Does that make sense?

Well, I've guessed things from people where I didn't do the normal way I do it.

Do you understand what I mean?

Like, I normally have a, there's a series of steps on how I do it, kind of like a chess player.

Right, you get a chess player, you get Magnus Carlson here, you get the best chess player in the world.

They can literally blindfold play 30 people.

And I'm like,

how are you doing that, right?

That's like magic to me.

But you're keeping track of all that stuff in your mind.

And you're doing stuff that is indistinguishable from real magic, in my opinion.

But you've hyper-focused on one skill.

That's what I've done.

You just think it's a lot of skills.

What I've focused on is one thing is assessing what people are thinking and what they give away that they don't think they're giving away.

That's all.

I just guess secret information for a living.

But to make it exciting and entertaining, I add bells and whistles and make it interesting.

Otherwise, it'd be boring.

How many mentalists are out there?

Like, is there a community guys you share notes?

Sure.

So there's like a, I wouldn't call it a brain trust, but there's people I bounce ideas off of when I'm creating, kind of like you'd punch up jokes, where they're, here's what's rare in our world.

There's creators and then there's performers.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Like writers, and it's like singer-songwriters.

How many people have their songs written for them?

Right.

Some of the biggest stars in the world.

Right.

And how many are like Taylor Swift style, where you write it and this and you get a a piece of you in it.

Yeah.

And there's something about when you write your own song.

I'm not knocking people that don't write their own song, but there's something that you feel different.

Right.

Do you know what I mean?

Which explains the connection Taylor Swift has to her fans.

I believe so because you're getting a piece of you that somebody else can't.

I'm sure that's.

Just a random pop star that gets like some factory.

You'll still like it.

Like I freaking love a Backstreet Boy song.

Don't get me wrong.

How dare you?

I want it that way, Joe.

But like when you are with her, and I'm sure like Jack Angel, now she has a huge, amazing crew of writers that I'm sure get things out of her.

And I know a lot of like music producers, but you feel some connection.

So what, again, I think is differentiating.

There's a lot of mentalists, but it's a really small number that are the singer-songwriter, the creator-performer, who have the thoughts and are constantly doing new stuff.

Because we are a cover band.

Most mentalists are a cover band of other mentalists.

Got it.

We don't need to do new stuff.

You could literally do the same thing.

This is pretty amazing.

I could do this for the next 40 years and make a good living.

God bless.

And why do new stuff?

Like when Louis C.K.

was popping out three specials a year, everyone's like, what the, you know, why are you doing this to all the rest of us?

You're so creative.

You don't have to.

And in our profession, you really don't have to because you don't have to bury material.

Right.

If I'm not putting stuff online, if I'm not going like crowdwork the Matt Reif model, who, by the way, I love that guy.

But like.

It changed the game.

Now, if you want to blow up on social, you've got to be doing this or do current events, do topical, do things you can burn.

But I can't put my real act out there.

Right, right, right.

So, but you enjoy the creative aspect.

I love it.

I find it boring.

If I keep doing the same stuff,

I'm bored.

Right, right.

And I get like sad.

Right.

But it's, it's interesting because, like, I wonder how many people you can bounce ideas off of.

It seems like you're kind of a lone wolf.

Like in that world, I don't think there's, I mean, there's a lot of comedians.

Like, I could call a lot of comedians right now and just bounce an idea off of.

There's way less mentalists and there's way more magicians.

And then of the group of mentalists, if you were to do the core one, and again, this is not subjective, I'm much more like objective the way we looked at names, how many of them have done certain volume of TV appearance, certain volume of views?

Like which ones are getting the attention of the world and the zeitgeist?

It's a very, very small number because you got to innovate, right?

This is like an attention economy.

You have to do stuff that's compelling to the viewer.

And for me, I don't think about myself.

It's a trick in life.

I think about who's watching.

Hmm.

Well, that's what do you mean by it's a trick in life?

Well, I like it helps you in everything in life, right?

My secret sauce is that I hold the mirror up not to myself, but to you.

Do you get it?

Like when you're watching and you're watching a football thing, right?

What's intriguing is the fact that you're a football viewer.

If you're meeting somebody and you want to be memorable, learn more about them.

Start listening more.

Like, I'll tell you a story.

I met Steven Spielberg.

I did Steven Spielberg's dad's birthday.

And I got in that room.

Have you met Steven Spielberg?

No.

And I'm like, you know, a crazy fan.

Like, I can't explain to you how many movies he had as a kid that were life-changing.

I'm like, dude, Close Encounters, third kind.

Like, he's one of the greatest of all time.

Ever.

Yeah.

And so I'm in the room.

I've done stuff for his family.

This is not like a big blowout corporate event.

It's like 80 people.

Hope he doesn't mind me sharing this.

And it was great time, amazing.

And at the end of it, I'm like getting some FaceTime with Spielberg.

Right.

And I walk up to him and we spent almost 20 minutes talking to each other, which is like, I didn't expect that.

I thought he'd be like, oh, great job.

You know, do you know how many questions?

I had a million questions.

Do you know how many questions I asked him?

How many?

Zero.

Really?

Zero.

And that's like right there, I learned a lesson in life that applies to everything.

That's why Steven Spielberg, he is naturally curious.

This guy, wealthy beyond belief, stories beyond belief, he could make it ego-driven.

And he could have been telling me, oh, this, and I would have been hanging on my every word.

But instead, he wanted to know more about me.

And he kept asking me questions.

I was like, just pause, dude.

I have like a lot of questions.

Like, come on.

And so I learned and I could have just left that and been like, fuck, I didn't get any questions in with Steven Spear.

But instead, I realized this is the person at the highest level of what he does.

And he is naturally curious and he lets other people shine.

And this is something to do in life.

Right.

Which is you don't know when you meet somebody who they'll be or what they'll be or what can I'm not doing it from a transactional sense, but why I've had so many T of E appearances is when I go into a place, i'm going to do stuff for the security guard i'm going to do something for the person who irons my shirt i'm going to leave that place like a bomb went off of amazement where everyone around there now likes you and you don't know when they'll jump ship to another network to another thing and if they like you sales 101 they're going to want to keep doing business with you and so those people become your champions elsewhere and that's kind of a lesson where he could have talked about himself the whole time he didn't interesting so I shouldn't either.

When you go to other places, let other people shine.

And that's something I've carried with me.

And I think that's a superpower in life that most people don't do.

They think, what am I going to say next?

Right.

That's kind of the key to running a good podcast, too, because you really want to extract the most out of the person possible.

Right.

Where you just want...

My questions are basically just to try to get you to expand.

And I just want to find out how you think.

Right.

And for Spielberg, a guy who deals in all these...

stories and narratives and all these characters and heroes to meet a unique character like yourself is probably really fascinating to him too because he's probably like oh i don't know anybody like this right you know like what are you doing how are you doing like and now now he's got like a new tool in his toolbox totally right because he's got you right like this you know you have the spectrum of possibilities in terms of like the humans that you meet and then you meet one that's outside of that you're like oh i hadn't even considered you before right what are you where how's who the fuck are you

that was pretty much the question and then he had like he but he was interesting because I don't know if you get this, but I get like X, like the 20 questions is what I call it, air quotes, which is, how'd you get into this?

Like,

the opening questions, which you can't blame someone.

If you've got a weird job, people want to know about it.

Right.

Like, did somebody in your family do this?

Like, there's all these questions you're going to get every time.

God bless people.

I don't hold it against them.

Mine is always, I'm doing like a sound check for a gig.

And then they're always like, all right, so we got this, we got this.

I go, don't you know that we have that?

Like, duh, you know, like,

I'm like, okay, so just real quick, where's the green room like you don't know already and i'm like okay this is this is good i just smile and i'm like you know i never heard that one before but it's uh it it's you get that yeah but in this situation

again it's like he he didn't ask those questions he was very uniquely finding answers questions that weren't like the usual of course because a study I mean, he studies humans.

Right.

I mean, to be a great filmmaker the way he is, to do Schindler's List, to do

that.

That's such a heavy movie, man.

Have you seen that recently?

Private Ryan.

I mean, he's got heavy movies.

And then, you know, Close Encounters is one of my favorite movies of all time.

I mean,

it's interesting.

You know, one of the things I really liked about that movie is he, after he became a father, changed how he felt about the ending of his own movie.

He wouldn't have the father leave everybody.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, because at the end of the movie, Richard Dreyfus' character gets on the spaceship and leaves with the aliens.

Wow.

He's like, I would never do that.

I didn't know that.

Did they film it or no?

Well, it was after the fact.

Like, you know, he made the movie, I believe, when he was younger, and he didn't have children.

And then as time went on, you know, he looked back on it.

He's like, oh, God, I would never leave my kids to go on this fucking UFO.

Right.

Nor would I, nor would you.

No.

No.

Like, but in this idealistic version of who he thought the Richard Dreyfus character was and the circumstances, like, he had to leave.

He had to go.

You got to go with the aliens.

Sure as hell, get my phone out and try and get good footage for a change.

I'm like, right here, good stuff.

I like the tic-tac and gimbal, but I want to see it close up and high-def.

I know.

You got anything?

Off-air.

You got something?

Come on.

I have off-air what I think are people bullshitting me.

Oh, you don't have to be off-air.

I've watched these.

I can read people.

I can tell.

On air where the snake oil is.

You feel it.

That's where it's instinctive.

Like, I don't have the tools that you have, but there's a part of me that's like, hmm.

Something smells.

I told Jamie

when I walked in here and I said, this is, again, passes the sniff test.

And pardon my French, but everyone takes crap, right?

Everyone in the world.

I don't care if you're the Pope.

You take a crap.

So if they're being held in a facility, someone's taking craps.

Right.

And who's cleaning it?

I don't think the scientists are.

There's a janitor.

There's someone in that room.

So are you telling me that there's nobody in there that's got a 401k health insurance, some sort of, how is someone not getting...

Tell me, explain to me what NDA they're signing or what they're doing.

That if they found this out, someone, loose lip sing ship, somebody would have told somebody who works in that facility who's not the scientist, who's not the military person, and word gets out.

How is that buttoned up tight where nothing gets out ever?

Well, for 50 years, you're telling me there's a basement somewhere in this country eight stories down where they've got those things and no one else knows who's credible and can release it.

How?

Occam's razor, what do you think?

I think the government can keep things secret for a long time.

I think they did with the Manhattan Project.

I think they've done it with other projects in the past.

I think it's possible.

You think it's siloed?

It's just siloed.

Nobody knows all the info.

Because people do talk.

There's a lot of people talking, and people share similar stories, and they have for decades.

And I think there's something to it.

I just don't know what it is.

I think, you know, we had Jesse Michaels on yesterday, who has this amazing show on YouTube.

Probably the best YouTube show on aliens and UFOs and UAPs.

And he's very agnostic in his thinking, and he's very objective.

And he also is very, very, very thorough as far as his understanding of the information.

And even he is baffled as much as he knows, but he knows more about siloed technology than pretty much anybody does in regard to this UAP phenomenon.

And he points to this guy, Thompson Brown, who was working on gravity technology in the 1950s.

They had working models.

He thinks that they have some sort of a gravity propulsion device.

But then there's things like Roswell where the crash, like if all those stories are true, that's too early.

It's 47.

There's too early.

There's no way they had working models of these devices back then.

So he thinks.

It's possible.

You know, he's not a, I know this is true.

He thinks it's possible that it is both United States government secret projects that people are seeing, and there's probably quite a few of them.

We actually pulled a few of them up and showed some of them that look like UFOs that probably is part of what people are seeing.

But he thinks it's also probable that there's some other things.

And these other things could be from anywhere.

And then there's just the Fermi paradox.

Like if they're all out there, where are they?

There's so many planets.

There's so many galaxies.

Well, that's that's got to be the case.

It has to be the case.

It's the question of whether or not they have visited or whether or not they're here.

Right.

You know, and then there's these like weird Peruvian mummies that we went over, these tridactyl mummies that they take CAT scans of, and you see the tissue and the bones, and

they were all found.

What is it called?

What's the kind of earth that they found that these things are?

Dye, something.

Do you remember what it is?

Where they were all dried out?

I know exactly what you're saying, the description, but I don't remember the word.

Something earth.

I know the word.

I can't.

It's escaping me right now.

All this stuff's very fascinating.

So fascinating.

Ancient depictions on cave walls of these things.

And we pulled up these tapestries that were a thousand years old that had these three-fingered creatures.

It's very weird.

Very weird.

But that doesn't necessarily mean they're alien.

You know, we talked to

we talked rather about all the various versions of human beings that they're finding now.

You know, from Denisovans to the island of Flores, Hobbit people.

There's like these, there's a weird variety of humans that went extinct.

Right.

And these tridactyl things could very well have been that.

Yeah, you had, it was Christopher Mellanon, right?

And I, that was my favorite one.

Yeah.

Because he had, I think, I, I don't want to butcher it, but I think he called it ultraterrestrial.

It makes the most sense, which is think about right now if you just dropped a bottle in the ocean, right?

What are the odds you ever run into that bottle in the ocean?

It's impossible.

That's what time is.

If we've been around for 13 billion years, sure, there's aliens, but how do you, we've only been around for a few thousand.

Like, it's such an infant, it's a grain of sand in the whole beach.

So what if you, what would you do right now?

If we had technology a thousand years from now, 2,000 years from now, right?

AI, multiply it out, the whole nine.

What would you do?

You'd send these things everywhere.

Sure.

Just like sci-fi, and you'd plant them and you'd come out every now and again and check what's up.

Sure.

So that's, I don't, I don't, my likeliest thing is I don't think there's any biological beings or aliens.

I think you've just got automated drones in essence that are running patterns that have some sort of, like, I don't know.

That makes way more sense.

It certainly could be that.

I mean, that's what we're doing currently on Mars.

Right.

It's what we do with, you know, probes, you know, with the James Webb telescope, a lot of the different things that we use.

We just send a machine out and get information from it.

And then also, I think at a certain point in time, we're being realistic about what we're doing right now.

We're going to have biological beings, and then we're going to have some kind of digital being.

We're going to have some sort of a, whether it's...

whether it's an actual physical robot or whether it's just an artificial intelligence that's a signal that we can send and you know it has enough compressed information where it can compute and calculate and do it's a technology beyond our wildest

wildest dreams is a thousand years away from now right but a thousand years away we have a god right so what would if if you extrapolate where we're at now with quantum computing and the ability to calculate things that if you turn the entire universe every molecule of the universe into a computer it would take you so much time according to mark andreessen that the universe would die of of heat death before it could solve an equation that a quantum computer can solve in minutes.

Right.

This is, we're talking about nuts.

No, it's crazy.

And this is just 2025 stuff.

You know, if you looked at the internet from 1994, it's like archaic, 14-4 modem.

I remember it.

I remember it.

I'm that generation.

You know, that's 31 years ago.

So like, what are we talking about when we're dealing with 31,000 years?

So if conceivably a life form has existed and gone through the same stages as us without catastrophes, without nuclear war, without all the things that could trip us up, we could be dealing with things that are beyond our imagination, literally beyond our imagination, and they're probably around us all the time.

I had an idea that I wondered.

I've always thought, what if ideas are life forms?

Right.

Because we think of life as being it has to breathe, it has to have cells, it has to, but

everything in this room and everything in this city and everything on this planet that's a man-made physical object came out of an idea.

And the ideas compound upon each other.

The more people working on these ideas, the more competition, the more the ideas will flourish, and the more the ideas will be more complex and more efficient versions of this idea.

But it has to start as a creative thought inside someone's head.

And either a creative thought that you can apply to existing creative thoughts or a completely unique one, like Francis Crick or when they're figuring out certain aspects of biology or certain aspects of the quantum field, whatever they're doing that's a breakthrough thing.

Like, where is that coming from?

It's coming from an idea.

And then these ideas, they manifest itself in physical form through human labor.

Well, it's Schrodinger's cat, right?

Does it happen if you don't observe it?

That's the weird thing about quantum physics, right?

It's completely, you can't imagine it, but if you don't open that box, nothing's happened yet.

It hasn't happened until you observe it.

Right.

They prove that.

Well, that's what it gets really weird, you know, when people,

there's a lot of people that are deciding now that to approach it, approach it as if consciousness is the reason these things exist, not consciousness is seeing that these things exist, that they only exist when you're interacting with them.

Which is like, what?

Some of the stuff when you read that, like I've read books about string theory, about quantum physics, it's just they're too

hard to process in the real world when you're like the table, but the table's actually empty space.

There's almost nothing in it, solid.

Every atom, I don't even know what the numbers are, like Neil de Crestison, but how small is the nucleus and the actual physical items out of it?

They're empty.

Everything's empty.

Everything's empty.

And then you get to subatomic, and you're like, okay, well, now this is just pure wizardry.

Right.

Yeah.

They exist and they don't exist.

This is something Michael Jackson said about ideas.

Start like right here.

Phillip says, We went and met with Michael and Kenny said, Michael, you've got to stop.

We've got an incredible show.

We don't need any more vignettes.

Michael said, but Kenny, God channels this through me at night.

I can't sleep because I'm so supercharged.

Kenny said, but Michael, we have to finish.

Can't God take a vacation?

Without missing a beat, Michael said, You don't understand.

If I'm not there to receive these ideas, God might give them to Prince.

Incredible.

Just an incredible.

Michael slept one night, and that's why Purple Rain exists.

Did you know that?

Little Red Corvette was going to have a totally different meeting with Michael Jackson.

Isn't that crazy?

Too soon?

Too soon?

God might give them to Prince.

Yeah.

Wow.

Wow.

Well, songs are interesting like that.

You know who I met last year?

I was in Sweden.

I did this conference.

Brilliant minds, amazing.

And I met Max Martin.

Do you know who that is?

No.

Max Martin is, you should look this up, how many hits he has.

So Max Martin has, I think, more number one hits than anyone but Paul McCartney.

Check that if I'm right.

But I got there.

There's so many interesting people.

It was an amazing conference.

And I was ready to geek out with him because I'm just so curious.

It's the creative.

Like, how does somebody come up with something is fascinating to me.

And one of his recent songs was

Blinding Lights by the weekend.

You know, I went such a massive hit.

And I just, I love that song.

And I just like, just like, perfect.

Sounds like a movie track in my mind.

And how did you do that?

Like, how, you know, where did you start?

Did you guys have a beat?

Did you know the lyrics?

Like, I'm just so curious.

How does that happen?

Is it like in 10 minutes?

Is it months?

And he just walked me through, like, he had a vision.

We have this.

We have like all this stuff that we sit down.

And then the first the music, then this, I'm like, just, wow, it's so amazing to create something like that that a billion people now listen to, number one, in every country in the world.

It's like, how do you manufacture something so kind of perfect that everyone in the world likes it?

Yeah.

And is there a formula that you know it's going to be the hit before it is the hit?

That to me is the most like, how many bands get stuck for the rest of their life playing a song that they freaking hate that they didn't know was going to be their,

especially if you're a one-hit wonder?

Yeah.

You're like dead in the eyes.

You're like, I got to play this again.

I got to, you know, come on, Eileen.

Like, you better love that song.

You love a song and the artist doesn't want to sing it anymore.

Oh.

And then they start singing it in a different way at a concert.

And you're like, why are you doing this weird a cappella, bro?

I want to hear like the radio.

Yeah,

that's interesting.

That's kind of the difference, though, between musicians and anybody else.

Because musicians, you want to hear the same thing over and over again.

Exactly.

I have that a little bit where if I get clients who book me over and over,

I say to them, do you want me to do something different?

Because it's like jokes.

Right.

You know, it's like I've seen gaffing and you're going to do hot pockets.

Like people call it out.

I want to hear it.

But you know the punchline.

Right, right, right.

Something that especially you're known for.

So I found that if I did a completely different show, people are kind of mad.

Like you, I don't have exit surveys, but like I, I, I kind of listen in and see what's going on.

I wish he did that one.

Bon Jovi has got to do living on a prayer at every game or people are pissed.

For me, I need at least two of the things to be the same because people want to see if they can catch it the second time.

Got it.

So there's a level of they heard about it and they're like, oh, you got to do that thing with the thing.

And so if I do everything new, yeah, they're kind of happy, but they still want a greatest hit.

And it took me years to learn that because I used to be like, oh, I can't do the same thing.

I got to be, you know, unique.

And then I learned that that's not, that's not better.

You know, know, I was just thinking, like, mentalists would be the best police interrogators.

Right.

Minority report style.

Right?

Don't you think?

Like, if someone, but don't you think if a police interrogator learned the skills of being a mentalist?

I think they could, but again,

it's the best analogy that I can give you is a director holding the camera.

I'm always holding the camera and pointing it at what I want.

Does that make sense?

What police interrogator is going to say, okay, to the perp, think of where you were that night.

Look this way, look that way.

They're not going to do all that stuff.

This is done when it's done under the guise of entertainment.

And if they do do that, you're kind of leading the witness.

You could lead whatever.

People are going to,

it's not a show.

So you're not going to have a willing participant.

You can't be hypnotized against your will.

Most stage hypnotists, they do compliance testing first.

Do you know what I mean by that?

They have everyone in the audience hold your hands together and imagine and like, and like who can't get their hands apart.

And the person who goes like this right away, they're like, I'm not bringing them on stage.

They're not doing anything.

You have to be able to be hypnotized.

You have to be suggestible.

Mine isn't necessarily suggestible, but mine is a maze where every time you hit a roadblock, I'm moving you around until I get you to the spot where you go through.

And so that's why you asked me why I didn't do this.

It wasn't going to work.

I knew it wouldn't.

I have more things planned than you know right now.

Okay.

I've been thinking about this for a while, but I'm not going to do them all.

Okay.

Because again, how you structure an act, you leave the best for last.

You never leave here doing the best.

We're going down the home stretch.

Are we home stretched?

Are we at the final moment?

We're almost at three hours.

So you, wow, this goes fast, huh?

Flew by.

Remember when you asked me, did I wake up early or late?

Right.

The only thing I got wrong.

Right.

Right?

Except, well, he said the vowel, but he thought of melody, but the why was that, you know what I mean?

That was a little bit tricky because A-E-I-O- Anyway, it doesn't matter.

Here's what I want to do.

You said 50-50, coin flip.

Okay.

And I brought one.

You said, who has coins?

What do we got here?

A coin.

What is it?

Candy half, right?

Yeah.

All right, let's go.

I feel like one is not exciting enough.

That's like a football game.

Here's what I do.

I don't know if you can see me from over there.

Let's do three tosses.

Okay.

Statistically, how many we get right?

Two.

One and a half.

All right.

All right.

Either way.

Call it in the air.

Okay.

Can you see me over there?

I'm going to try.

The table's real busy.

Okay.

Call it in the air.

Tails.

You going tails?

Yeah.

What do we get?

Heads.

All right.

All right.

Whatever.

O for one.

Okay.

Did you feel good about it when you did it?

No.

Okay.

Should I really put it in my head?

No, do what I mean.

It's a coin flip.

It's not a trick.

Okay.

Now it gets in your head because you guessed it and you're like, fuck it, didn't work the first time, but nobody cares.

Nothing riding out.

You already call it in the air.

What are you going with?

Tails.

You going tails again?

Yeah.

You're going tails again.

Yep.

I can't.

See, that time I would never change.

It's heads.

0 for 2.

All right, all right.

Third try is charm.

Okay.

You think you got it?

Yep.

What are the odds on that?

So this has got to be your shot.

Call it.

Tails.

Tails?

I always go.

Tails never fails.

What do we get, Joe?

You're 0 for 3.

Heads again.

You're 0 for 3.

You done?

Nope.

You want one more?

Sure.

You insist?

Yeah.

All right.

You're not done.

I said three.

Okay.

Should I go over here?

Has that envelope been there the whole time?

This envelope?

Yes.

We sealed this

the moment I arrived at this studio.

Right.

Okay.

You're going to get it this time, just for the wrong.

Okay.

Call it.

Tails.

Tails?

Yeah.

Oh for four.

Are you doing this?

I'm not doing anything.

You're not making it land on heads?

Oh for four.

No, do you know how to do it?

Do you have a method?

Call it.

Call whatever you want.

Tails.

So, did I do it?

You said it.

What is it?

It's heads.

But that didn't count.

That didn't count.

You're just bad luck.

Is that five in a row?

Five to count that one.

That seems odd.

Let's try one more.

Double check the

do it yourself.

Double check what you're doing.

Double check.

There's still tails on there.

There's still tails.

Okay, just check it.

But this doesn't count because this one's yours.

Whoops.

That was very clumsy of me.

Put it anywhere.

Do it on the table.

I just didn't have room on the table.

It's tails.

But did you guess tails?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

I just kept going.

I feel like there's got to be tails on your head.

It's not a trick.

It's statistical.

All right.

But statistically, five in a row of heads, it seems odd.

I said to you, I hope everyone stayed along for this journey.

I said this is your future.

This is my future.

Right?

But I lied.

Past, present, and future.

Oh, my my God.

Hold on, I'm going to come over there.

Open up.

You'll see what I mean, but I don't want you to open it.

You open it up.

There's two things in there.

Now, freeze right there.

Okay.

Show us what you have.

Two envelopes.

Well, not one's on envelope, but one's kind of

a folded piece of paper.

And one is a manila envelope.

Is it alright?

Is it taped everywhere?

Yes, taped everywhere.

So I'm coming over.

Okay.

Let's see what we got.

You want to do it?

Can you guys hear me?

We're going to open it.

Where am I?

Is it a camera here?

It is Mike, but I have the.

There's a camera over there.

Okay, you tell me.

Okay.

I'll go around you.

I just want to make sure you can see this.

All right.

Joe, look inside.

Okay.

I want you to look inside.

And before you grab it.

No, no, no.

Look, look, look, look, look.

Okay, I'm looking.

And tell me, you see, it says two words.

Can I turn this around?

I just want to say it's not.

Joe Rogan.

It says Joe Rogan, and I don't want to touch.

Will you do it?

I don't want to touch.

Grab that one.

That pink one out.

Okay.

And read to us.

Grab that.

That's your pass.

Hold on to this.

Okay.

Read out loud.

That's been in there from before we started.

It says Joe Rogan will get three coin flips in a row wrong, insist on doing one more, and then get that one wrong too.

The present.

You can't change that.

The past.

Joe, take out what's in there.

Okay.

Tell us all.

Look around the edges.

It's stapled.

Stapled.

Like, I usually used to lick stuff.

Still shut.

Feel around.

Like, do this.

Bring this over.

I want you to see.

Look, look.

I don't want to touch.

I just want you to, like, look around.

Yeah, it's fully stapled.

It's stapled.

Is there any?

When I walked in here, Joe, I made a big thing of it.

I said, I want you to have this before.

Right.

Sealed.

It's been here the whole time.

Sealed.

Yes.

Impulsive, spontaneous in the moment.

Got it.

And I said to you, did something get in your head?

Who earlier, when I said any fighter,

you've ever seen, what fighter came to mind?

I said Anderson Silver.

Anderson Silver.

Yeah.

And how many fighters?

Rip it open.

Okay.

How many fighters?

Did you say cycled through your head?

I said, be very specific.

How many fighters did you think cycled through your head?

I don't know.

I said a dozen at least.

Did he say a dozen?

I went with 14.

You said 14.

Read, please, open that up, take that out.

And I want you to please read what's been in there from the moment I walked on this set.

It said, Joe will have 14 fighters go through his head, but with Anderson Silva in the end and a fight that he won.

Past, present, and future.

That's insane.

Past, present, future.

The other piece of paper, there's one that's got...

That's literally insane.

Because at first I was going to go with Zabit.

Zabit, Magamob, Magamob, Sherov.

Do this.

Grab the other piece of paper.

It's got a paper clip.

Freeze right there.

This is the future.

Stop, stop.

Don't move.

Hold it right there in your hand.

Nobody knows the future.

Nobody knows the future.

It's true.

Nobody does.

Imagine right now, best magic trick in the world.

Boom.

I throw a smoke bomb.

Right.

Disappear, disappear.

Right.

Anyone ever.

Someone famous though.

Otherwise, I want to see my grandma again.

Okay.

Appears right here instead.

Imagine you literally, I don't want Jamie Du, but you pull up a photo, you show me this person's photo.

Got it.

Say it.

Who do you see right there in that chair?

Say it.

What's their name?

Miles Davis.

Can I ask you a question?

Yes.

Because I like this.

Here's what I always like to do.

I always call it the grass is greener.

I can see when people's eyes shift.

When they have one person and they're like, I want that person.

But that's the front of their mind.

I can always get in the front.

But for this to be a legendary ending, who is in the back?

Who is the person you thought of before Miles Davis?

Tell us.

Muhammad Ali.

Muhammad Ali, right?

That's what I love.

The gold standard.

The reason you're going to talk about this for years is because you changed your mind at the last moment.

That's been in there from when I walked in here.

Look at what's in there right now.

Muhammad Ali.

How is that possible?

That's insane.

You are a witch.

We're going to have to kill you.

Lock the door, Jamie.

Bam.

That's really insane, man.

That's really weird.

I want to ask you how you do this, but you're not going to tell me.

Yeah, off camera.

Tell you everything.

You show me where Bob Lazar is hiding the UFO.

I wish I knew.

I wish I knew.

That's insane, dude.

That's crazy.

It was Anderson Silver versus

Rich Franklin.

Oh, what a good fight.

What a great fight.

This you keep.

This you keep.

You lock in the safe or when I come next time, assume the clothes.

I will.

I'll be back.

This is really nuts, man.

I don't know how you did it.

It's really crazy.

The coin flip, the 14 different fighters like all of it thank you fucking nuts man change your bank pin code right now change it yeah i'm going to

jesus christ

jammy anything to add to this nope i thought we should have walked off when you just silent we should just ended it there this is like pure wizardry dude i i don't know how you're doing it appreciate that i don't think you're ever gonna be able to explain to me either Thank you.

I appreciate you, man.

I'm a huge fan for many years, and I love what you're putting out in the world.

And I'm telling you, I just, I love it.

And thank you so much.

I'm honored to be here.

It's an honor for me, too.

This is like truly insane.

I've been blown away before, but I don't think I've ever been blown away this much.

This is really nuts.

And it's like shattered my worldview.

I have to rethink how I think about everything and what signals human beings give off and like how someone could read something like that.

Pretty nuts.

Thanks, brother.

Thank you.

Bye, Bray.