#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Speaker 0 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out!

Speaker 1 The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Speaker 1 Joe,

Speaker 1 always a pleasure.

Speaker 2 Great to see you, man.

Speaker 1 Great to see you guys, always. What the fuck's happening? Welcome to America.

Speaker 2 We love being here so much, Joe.

Speaker 1 Your country just keeps getting weirder every time you visit.

Speaker 1 Every time you visit, I want to ask you about some new visits.

Speaker 1 Let's be honest.

Speaker 1 Guilty as charged.

Speaker 1 I think we're really close to proof that the simulation is real.

Speaker 1 This is why things are so preposterous.

Speaker 2 Do you know, I try and argue against that, and then I see what's happening in all our countries, and I'm like, you know what? Fine.

Speaker 1 Probably you've got a point now. Yeah, you know when I really started, we were actually talking about this yesterday.
I really started to genuinely consider it.

Speaker 1 Like, like one of those where it like snuck in through my defenses, my logical defenses, when this girl, Heather McDonald, blacked out on stage while she was making jokes about being vaccinated, and then she blacks out and cracks her skull.

Speaker 1 Have you seen that? Yes. Legitimately.
That was the first time in my life where I was like, there's no way.

Speaker 1 I was like, they're fucking with us. Yeah.
They're just fucking with something's happened. That can't be so dead on.
Like, this is like God is a scriptwriter.

Speaker 1 Like, how is that a real real thing? That that's a video where someone is,

Speaker 1 she didn't do it when she was making fun of her boyfriend. She didn't do it if she was talking about idiots and traffic.
It was when she was talking about the vaccine

Speaker 1 and how, you know, I even still got my period, so Jesus loves me more.

Speaker 1 Like, there's no way. It's too good.
The timing was exquisite.

Speaker 1 You couldn't have, if you had a movie where that was a scene, you could not have scripted it or timed it any better. Well, you would tell her, and

Speaker 1 drop.

Speaker 1 There's no way.

Speaker 1 I started legitimately wondering then. And I know that's a stupid example.
I'm very aware of you. Like, you fucking moron, all the things in the world, there's plenty of examples.

Speaker 1 Jesus loves me the most. So nice.
Look at this.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 and the audience is laughing. Probably the best laugh she got all night, right? Because it's a big move.
It's a big move. You know, if you're a Pratt Fall person, no one expects it.

Speaker 1 Like, ah, that's hilarious. If it goes with the bit, you know.

Speaker 2 And it's timed perfectly, absolutely. What's that quote? God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

Speaker 1 Wow. What a great...
Who said that?

Speaker 2 It was either... I've said it, and

Speaker 2 it's either Voltaire or Camus. I can't remember which one.

Speaker 1 Tommy will find out.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but yeah, but that's the quote. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

Speaker 3 If that happened to me, Voltaire?

Speaker 1 Voltaire.

Speaker 3 There you go. If that happened to me and my Russian grandmother, we'd be just like, God is punishing you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that's why Russians are scary to fight.

Speaker 1 They're harder people.

Speaker 1 They're harder people. No, you'll listen.
Yeah. We have business to discuss.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 It just seems fake. There's so much that seems fake.
You know, it's like all

Speaker 1 the news,

Speaker 1 just the people that are politicians, everyone feels like they're like, who's the Fetterman character? This guy is wearing a hoodie and shorts.

Speaker 1 That's the wacky neighbor, you know, and then Jasmine Crockett, she's that loudmouthed lady from down the street. And they're like, oh, here comes Jasmine.
She's going to get crazy.

Speaker 1 And Maxine Waters is like, oh, she's old. Leave her alone.
Leave her alone. It's like these are fake people.

Speaker 1 Nancy Pelosi, this giant tittied lady who wants all the money, who's been in politics for 150 years. There's pictures of her with Kennedy.

Speaker 3 I didn't realize Nancy Pelosi was well in doubt.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy. Oh, boy.
Really? Yeah.

Speaker 3 You've done the research.

Speaker 1 Well, there's all these photos where people are calling her.

Speaker 1 What's a Gilf? A grandma you'd like to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You've never seen her boobs?

Speaker 1 No, I have never seen Nancy Pelosi's boobs, John. No disrespect, Mrs.
Pelosi. I admire her for stock choices.

Speaker 3 Fantastic.

Speaker 1 Those are legit.

Speaker 3 You know, I gotta say, this is a great start to the podcast, and we aren't even stoned.

Speaker 1 How did you not know? How did you not know?

Speaker 1 You're a grown man. Look at the size of those fucking sweater hammers.

Speaker 3 That is incredible. That has made me a lot more in favor of Congress.

Speaker 1 So, is that

Speaker 1 hold up? Go to that last picture.

Speaker 1 That seems fake, but it might be like from the Clinton administration. See, these deep state vampires.

Speaker 2 I already thought you were going to go somewhere else. When you said deep, I went, this is going somewhere.

Speaker 1 These deep state vampires, as hot as as Nancy Pelosi used to be. Deep state vampire, no disrespect, Mrs.
Pelosi. They've been around in the system forever.

Speaker 1 Like the relationships that those people make and the control that they establish and the Rolodex and I got shit on Lindsay and Lindsay's got shit on this guy. And it's like, Jesus.

Speaker 3 It's a fucking dirty business, man. Oh, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 Bro, it's the dirtiest. It's the dirtiest business.

Speaker 1 It's the dirtiest business in the world.

Speaker 2 You know what I think now that when I look at politics and you look at wrestling and I remember criticizing like people who watch soap operas. I remember just going, oh, they're so dumb.

Speaker 2 And I remember my ex going to me, she went, Francis, you like soccer. That's just soap opera, but for men.
And when you think about it, it kind of is. We just buy into our different soap operas.

Speaker 1 Except soccer's happening for real, and the soap opera is just a dumb pretend of a goofy life that's not real.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but politics is kind of soap opera for like adults.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure. I think it's teams for adults for sure.
For people that don't like sports, it becomes like a giant part of their. It's like a guy with a Cubs hat.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm fucking Chicago Cubs till I die. Till I die, bro.
Chicago Cubs, one day we're going to pull it up. Like people in Chicago, they fucking deliver.

Speaker 1 You'll fight you in Philadelphia if you don't like the Eagles. They will fight you.
Like if you go to a Philadelphia Eagles game and you're from another team, they will beat your fucking ass.

Speaker 1 And it happens all the time.

Speaker 1 And that's that's crazy. You're both Americans.
Like this is the dumbest thing of all time. Like one's from a different city so they're your enemy because they support a different football team.

Speaker 1 We do it with everything.

Speaker 3 I know you find that shocking joe but in England, in Britain that is like run of the mill.

Speaker 3 So in the 70s and 80s each football team and to some extent now they had their own what's called a firm, which is these hooligans whose only thing, they didn't really give a shit about the football, the soccer.

Speaker 3 They would get together with the supporters of the firms of other teams to to have fights in the car park outside the stadium. And they would travel all around the country doing that.

Speaker 3 So it's actually the, it's one thing I love about American sports, like you can go to the game with your kids and not worry about the stuff that people are going to be screaming and shouting and all that violence.

Speaker 3 You are a lot more chilled out than we are in Europe about that stuff, believe it or not.

Speaker 1 Oh, I do believe it. I do believe it.
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Speaker 1 This offer is for new customers only. But any like group like that, like like soccer, traveling group, you're going to attract some fucking psychos that hop along.

Speaker 1 It's like when the Grateful Dead go on tour, like, I bet they're not specifically asking cult members to recruit with acid in the parking lot.

Speaker 1 For sure, it's going to happen. Yeah.
For sure. If you're like a psycho cult leader and you want to pick up some people, you're going to go to a place where everyone's on acid.

Speaker 1 You're going to go to a fish concert and explain to them, you know, you guys, I know you're in between apartments right now. We have an amazing community and everyone's accepted.

Speaker 1 And next thing you know, you're in a cult. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Next thing you know, next thing you know, you're doing acid with this fucking weirdo and, you know, he's in the lotus position and you're all pretending that this is normal.

Speaker 2 But you know what's really interesting about soccer is that that hooligan element, that's not just in the UK, that's right the way through Europe and in South America.

Speaker 1 It's New Zealand too, right? Don't they duke it out in New Zealand? No, no, no, it's not in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 Yeah, rugby's kind of different because f football with the hooligan element, element. So in Italian soccer, for example, they have what the hooligans are called the ultras.

Speaker 2 And they're so powerful that if the team is playing badly, then what the captain has to do, he then gets, in some instances, the ultras have

Speaker 2 blockaded the stadium, refused that the players leave, and that the captain is then demanded to go and have a meeting with the head ultra.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 That kind of pressure while you're playing a world-class soccer match.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so then this kid, and let's be fair, he's a kid in his mid to late 20s probably, then has to go out and have a meeting with this 40-year-old tattooed psycho and then

Speaker 2 explain to him exactly why the team is underperforming.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 That's basically what professional sports is, especially soccer. It's like you're trying to do your best in front of 50,000 people who are all screaming that you're a cunt.

Speaker 1 That's basically it.

Speaker 1 In that sense, fighting is more pure because people don't really get upset at a fighter for losing. You really more like celebrate the other guy for winning.

Speaker 1 It's very rare the fighter gets demonished for losing. Like they would have to lose in a specific way.
Like they'd have to quit somehow. But there's none of that in the UFC.

Speaker 1 Because to get at that level, you can't have any of that in you. By the time you get to the big show, like those guys are tried and proven.

Speaker 1 There's no cowards in that group.

Speaker 1 So they don't get that same kind of criticism that athletes have, which is one of the, because it's also, it's like literally your life's on the line.

Speaker 1 Like it's, it's a different thing you're doing than just a sport, which is why the regular kind of journalism doesn't work in MMA.

Speaker 1 Like sports journalism in the United States at least is like super insulty. Like everybody's, he's a bum, he's lazy, he doesn't do the work in the offseason, and we're seeing it now.

Speaker 1 He's a fucking loser.

Speaker 1 They like to do that.

Speaker 3 Same in the UK, man.

Speaker 1 Bro, you do that about fighters and they'll find you. All right.
They'll fucking smack you in your face. Like this is their soul.
They're bearing in front of the world.

Speaker 1 And for you, some fat guy chewing Adderall and typing into a MacBook of Air, fuck you. That guy will smack you in your fucking head.
He's a terrifying human being trying his best.

Speaker 1 And you have to describe it that way, because it's a different thing than someone who doesn't hit free throws. It's a different thing.

Speaker 2 Did you ever hear the story? I think it was a guy called Curtis. I think it was Curtis Woodhouse.
It was someone like that. So it may not have been Curtis, but it was someone of that ilk.

Speaker 2 Wasn't a heavy, well, he was a middleweight champion, but he wasn't European or world, but he was a British middleweight champion, which is still a huge achievement.

Speaker 1 Huge achievement.

Speaker 2 Anyway, so this kid was trolling him. This happened about 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago.
And this kid was trolling him online and saying all this horrendous stuff. And

Speaker 2 the guy just responded. He went, right, I've had enough now and I'm coming to find you.
And the kid was just like, ah, yeah, you're going to come and find me.

Speaker 2 And he goes, bro, I know you live in Birmingham. And the kid's like, yeah, but Birmingham's a big place.
He went, no. I know people and we will get your address.

Speaker 2 And then, so he then started posting photos on his Twitter going, driving to Birmingham to see you.

Speaker 2 And then he went, oh, and then he took a photo of the sign of his town and went, I'm coming to see you.

Speaker 2 And then he took a photo at the bottom of his road and he went, you best come out because we're going to be talking. And the kid just went,

Speaker 2 and just apologized. And he went, that's cool, bro.
And he just went, knocked on his door and had a conversation with him.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 2 And he was just like, look.

Speaker 1 What was the kid? What did he look like?

Speaker 2 It was just like this little fat kid.

Speaker 1 We're giving people the power and the tools that they don't deserve. And I don't say

Speaker 1 that they don't deserve it as human beings. I mean, you're not capable of handling this kind of responsibility to be able to reach out to a middleweight champion and call him a pussy.

Speaker 1 Like, that's a crazy thing to do. And if you're like 15 years old and you have this ability, you shouldn't have a license to do that yet.
It's almost like a driver's license.

Speaker 1 Maybe you should have an internet license.

Speaker 1 No, Billy, you can't post post another picture of your dick you fucking psycho you know like you can't you can't just put up permanently things that could ruin your entire life when you're 15.

Speaker 1 maybe there should be that maybe it should be like all kids internet until they're 21 everything they post disappears in 15 seconds and you can't take a screenshot of it you know like

Speaker 1 let them be kids yeah let them be kids don't like like people are getting fired for a fucking post they made when they were in high school where someone digs up some old Facebook post they made joking around when they were in high school.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well we interviewed someone have you seen Adolescence this thing that's doing it's supposed to be the most watched thing on Netflix. It's on course.

Speaker 1 I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so it's about I spoiler alert so if you don't want to just tune out but it's basically about a 13 year old kid who

Speaker 3 is getting bullied by a girl at school. She calls him an incel or whatever and he goes and stabs her and kills her.
And it's crazy. And it's all about that.
And

Speaker 3 we had this guy, an incel expert on to talk about it, a guy who's actually in Austin here.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute, he's an incel expert?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Not practicing.

Speaker 2 That's why he came to see us, Josh.

Speaker 1 Imagine that's your field of choice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're like, you know what? I'm going to find out what's going on.

Speaker 3 He researches incels. He actually works with David Buss.
You've had him on the show, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 We wanted to have him on. Yeah, David Buss, evolutionary psychologist.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute. Yeah, you did.

Speaker 2 Because I listened to the episode, Josh.

Speaker 1 You see how confusing it is to have 2,500.

Speaker 1 Like, wait a minute, what? Yeah. Sometimes I hear about a guy, I'm like, wow, that guy's interesting.
And then I Google him, I'm like, fuck, talk to that dude. Talk to me seven years ago.

Speaker 1 Two years ago. Two years ago.
Yeah, my brain's mush right now. Let me see a photo of Mr.
Buss.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you've had.

Speaker 3 He's one of the greatest evolutionary psychologists in the world, I think.

Speaker 3 One of the pioneers.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That guy was fascinating.
He's friends with Jordan. I went to dinner with him in Jordan one night.
Jordan Peterson. And yeah, it's fascinating.
And, you know,

Speaker 1 it was also like super problematic because he highlights the differences between male psychology and female psychology. And people want to deny that that's a thing.

Speaker 1 And so like, okay, well, okay, with respect to trans people.

Speaker 1 You know, use whatever pronoun you like, change your name, but can we, are we allowed to talk about the inherent differences between males and females that we've observed?

Speaker 1 Or are we supposed to ignore like data and statistics and reality? What do we support?

Speaker 3 On our fucking eyes, man.

Speaker 1 And it's also like this is his field of study his whole life. Imagine your field of study all of a sudden becomes problematic.
Right. Like, let's not look into that.
Yeah.

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Speaker 1 The water's racist.

Speaker 1 So you're giving in to the dumbest notions. And it's happening.
It's at scale. And it seems like there's like two factions in what I would call like the American left right now.

Speaker 1 There's the reasonable people that are like, hey, hey, hey, we got to just stop being fucking crazy. Like the Bill Mahers and a lot of other folks like that.

Speaker 1 They're like, we got to stop being crazy and just appeal to like rational people. Don't go all the way over there.
Stick where most people are.

Speaker 1 And then there's people that, well, we got to go further left. Then there's people like, we got to take over Tesla dealerships.
We got to light cars on fire.

Speaker 1 The left is like justifying spraying Nazi swastikas on cars. Like, this is crazy.
They've gone so far over this. So there's one side that's just like radicalized in the worst way possible.

Speaker 1 That's a huge detriment to the Democratic Party because it makes everyone look like a psycho.

Speaker 1 If you have a psycho in your groups, like if you have like a white nationalist, you know, Christian fundamentalist burning down black churches in your, and he says, I'm a part of the right.

Speaker 1 and as a right-wing conservative like whoa

Speaker 1 that guy poisoned the right these people are poisoning the left totally all the people that don't want trans kids competing with their kids in school and they don't want gender ideology being taught in class all those people who are just rational normal liberals that have voted democrat their whole life they're like what the fuck what are you doing why are you letting guys into the women's room this is crazy a guy with a beard and a dress is in the women's room this is bananas like what are you doing in the name of compassion like this is fucking insane.

Speaker 1 That, they have to figure that puzzle out because right now they lost to Trump and they're in this scattered thing where they're trying to shit on everything he does, hide all the good stuff.

Speaker 1 You didn't hear a peep about Elon rescuing those people. That should have been on all of the news stories all day long.
We should have had a live stream of it.

Speaker 1 It should have been a huge national event. We're finally going to rescue the astronauts who are trapped in the space station for eight fucking months.

Speaker 1 And this super genius, this Elon Musk character, is the guy who figured out how to go get them. His company went and rescued them because we can't do it anymore.
We couldn't rescue them.

Speaker 1 We had to rely on his company and you don't hear shit about it. You don't hear shit about it.
It's crazy. You hear a few stories, they're having a hard time coming back, but

Speaker 1 why weren't they live streaming the whole thing? That's a huge moment.

Speaker 1 You're recovering these poor people. This is a giant special interest story that would grab so many headlines and it would have so much ratings because everybody wants to see it.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, they're going to get the astronauts. You'd be sitting on your couch with your family.
Are they going to get them? Is it going to dock? Is it going to work? You know, all that shit.

Speaker 3 Well, the hope is, man, the reality is the best teacher, right? So the Democrat brand is

Speaker 3 so destroyed now, so toxic, that they're going to have to work something out because if not, they're just going to keep losing.

Speaker 1 They're going to go with Bernie and AOC. And that's why they've been astro-turfing all these giant arenas for what people

Speaker 1 They're claiming they did an analysis of, well, find out if this is true, because I read this on X, and sometimes the community knows doesn't get there in time.

Speaker 1 But they were saying that they claimed there was 30,000 people, but they got all the cell phone data and they found out there were 24,000 cell phones. So

Speaker 1 they fudged it a little bit. That sounds normal.
But they also said that a huge number of these people had been to 20-plus events and a lot of other different

Speaker 1 progressive events and it seems like at least in some of them for sure they were paying people so they're giving people money to get on a bus go to this place here's your sign go have fun and so you're doing something different right you're pretending that these people are all coming out to see you but they're coming out to see you because you're giving them money and free food right

Speaker 1 and you know you're handing out water bottles and everybody gets a sign and everybody seems like they're kind of a part of a team and for a lot of losers a lot of people that don't have things going well in their life, and like, what do we do?

Speaker 1 You know, I was a loser at many points in my life. If somebody called me up and said, hey, man, you want to make 400 bucks and just go to this Kamala Harris Riley? I'm like, yeah, let's go.

Speaker 1 I would 100% go. I would 100% go with no political.

Speaker 1 And then I'd probably think she's cool. And I'd be like, yeah, I'm fucking voting for her, dude.
He's Hitler. That guy's not Hitler.
And I'd be holding up that stupid sign.

Speaker 1 If he found me when I was 21, 100%, I would have taken that 400 bucks. Yeah.
It's like they were giving out a thousand bucks for people to protest. I think it was Tesla.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure about that, but I think it was Tesla. But so they had like the rules of engagement.

Speaker 1 If someone comes after you, hit them in the body, don't pick up an object unless they pick up an object first. Like, are you organizing gangs?

Speaker 1 Like, are you guys paying money for people and then literally saying to them, here's what happens if you engage in violence? Like, why is that even on the table?

Speaker 1 I thought you guys were peacefully protesting. Like, who's going to get violent? How many pro-Tesla fucking hooligans are out there

Speaker 1 beating people up for Tesla? Is it fucking zero? I have not seen a bunch of pro-Tesla gang members out there. So what are you going to encounter with this anti-Tesla movement? The police?

Speaker 1 Like, who's going to stop you from doing it? Who's going to engage with you? Like, this is, you're kind of talking in a way that at least

Speaker 1 puts it on the table that violence might take place and you're paying people

Speaker 3 yeah and and they because they destroyed language now it it sort of logically makes sense right if these people are nazis If you actually thought they were Nazis,

Speaker 3 like if you actually thought Nazis had taken over your country, you'd pick up a gun, right?

Speaker 1 You shouldn't need a thousand bucks in free lunch. A thousand bucks in free lunch is crazy.

Speaker 3 You need to smooth things over.

Speaker 2 You need to subsidize your movement. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you would have a hard time. I would have a hard time doing the thousand bucks one.
I'd be like, bro, we're going to jail. I'd be like, I'm not that stupid.
I'll hold the sign.

Speaker 1 I'll go to the rally. But if I was 21, they said, look, $1,000, one protest against Tesla, I'd be like, hold on.

Speaker 1 What happens if we get arrested?

Speaker 1 This guy's rich.

Speaker 1 You light his fucking cars on fire, stupid. He's the richest man on earth.
Like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 Yeah, but you are someone who's got a family. You're well adjusted.
Like, if you look at...

Speaker 1 Even even when I was young I had survival instincts Yeah, I had this what I'm saying a lot of these people when you look at their mugshot

Speaker 1 I don't want to be unkind, but they don't look particularly well a lot of them That's 100% true and I think we need to have a lot of compassion for young people that get caught up in these movements and do silly things and they they even vandalism they they just need to understand that that should never be on the table.

Speaker 1 No violent acts are ever justified, especially if not someone's not being violent to you.

Speaker 1 If you decide to just go smash property and light things on fire, you don't serve your cause because rational, reasonable people are not going to do that.

Speaker 1 They're not going to light Starbucks on fire because Black Lives Matter. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 But if you get caught up in this, fuck the corporate thing, man, fuck the man, fuck the banks, and fuck this, and you just want to start lighting things on fire, you're just serving them because they will develop better and stronger ways to crack down on protest now.

Speaker 1 And all the people that wanted to protest reasonably, all the people that wanted to express themselves and say, we stand together to say that this is wrong, those people are all going to get hosed because you lit Starbucks on fire, you fucking idiot.

Speaker 1 But they're young. A lot of these people, they have fucking blue hair.
They probably had a shitty childhood.

Speaker 1 They're running around like experiencing freedom for like the first time in their life for the last 16 months, right?

Speaker 1 This is their first freedom out of their parents' house, and they get caught up in shit just like people get caught up in being in cults. You know, people get caught up in all kinds of things.

Speaker 1 It's like we just have to have more compassion for people and better mentorship.

Speaker 1 One of the real problems is that kids go to universities and almost universally they're given this ideology that this whole university and almost every university ascribes to.

Speaker 1 And it's universe, it's like universal.

Speaker 1 It's uniform. It's like, there's

Speaker 1 less liberal ones, but they're almost all liberal. It's like almost all higher learning.
There's only a few conservative universities.

Speaker 1 It's just a weird time for thinking and for discourse and for deciding what team you're on. It's like everyone's scared and scrambling.
You know, do we go red or blue?

Speaker 1 It's just the whole country's in this like weird state of disarray.

Speaker 3 And it's very tribal. And you see it now as well.

Speaker 3 You know, now that the right is in political power, a lot of the people who kind of made their bones challenging the excesses of the left, they're afraid to say anything about the right as well.

Speaker 3 Even though there's things to say, like, I don't know if you followed the signal group thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I did. I don't know enough about it, but it does seem like there's people that suspected it was a setup, that that guy was added to the chat on purpose.
Well, I think my...

Speaker 1 Is that true?

Speaker 3 I don't think so. I think the guy who added him has basically said, like,

Speaker 3 it was our mistake.

Speaker 1 So it was just a mistake.

Speaker 3 I don't think the investigation has been done to say definitively, but I think the White House said we're looking into this. But Tulsi, I think, said it was a mistake.

Speaker 3 I think Mike Waltz said it was a mistake.

Speaker 1 Such a crazy mistake. Yeah.
That's such a checks and balances mistake, like double check. Yes.
It's like, you know, when you go on the road, like, do I have my toothbrush? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do I have my underwear? You know what I mean? Like, I even make a note on my phone now. I'm like, I'm too stupid.
I always forget something. I was like, fuck, Mike.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 By this. You know, it's kind of like adding your ex-girlfriend to the boys' WhatsApp group.

Speaker 3 Some of the memes have been incredible.

Speaker 1 That's exactly what it's like. Dude, that's so good.
Yeah, that's so good. That's exactly what it's like.

Speaker 1 That's such a perfect analogy. Like, you fucking idiot.
They're all on the phone afterwards. What the fuck, bro?

Speaker 1 You know, Pete Hegset swears. Yeah.
You know, he's like, what the fuck, bro?

Speaker 1 You know she's going to talk. But how about the fact that they said that they didn't share any information about weapons or like what was the exact quotes? What did they say?

Speaker 1 So what they were basically doing was explaining how some shit was going to go down. Yeah,

Speaker 3 they were debating how to do the strikes, whether to do them. There was some debate about that initially.
And then initially, this journalist, I think he's editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, I think.

Speaker 3 Which is

Speaker 1 like the worst guy to get this information, too.

Speaker 3 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 He's probably jerking off the whole time, salivating. Like, yes.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 If you had to pick somebody, that is not who you pick, right?

Speaker 1 But you know,

Speaker 3 you know, we had an investigative journalist on the show, and we haven't released the episode yet, but as part of our after-the-show questions, he mentioned something which is he said, I'm going from memory here, so Francis, correct me, but basically that signal had been installed on government devices under the previous administration.

Speaker 3 So it may be the case that that guy's number had been pre-installed during that time.

Speaker 3 And because of that, the mistake was then made to add him to the group.

Speaker 3 So we don't know exactly what happened. But at the same time, what I'm saying is like the White House admitted it and then they started having a go at the journalist.

Speaker 3 Like that is not his fucking fault that you added him to the group, right?

Speaker 1 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 What's he supposed to do? Tell you, hey, guys, I've done that before.

Speaker 1 I think he sent this text to the wrong dude.

Speaker 3 The journalist is never going to do that. And that's not his job to do that either.

Speaker 1 No, no. Listen, that's one of those things that just happens accidentally.
But you can't have that happen when you're fucking planning bombs. Agreed.
When you're planning war.

Speaker 1 First of all, it's so crazy that the government doesn't have its own

Speaker 1 completely

Speaker 1 safe app. They do.

Speaker 3 What is it? I think it's called a SCIF or something like that. It's a special place where you go.

Speaker 1 No, but that's a room. I mean an app.
Oh, you mean an app? All right.

Speaker 1 Why did they not have some encrypted super government app? You telling me that you couldn't get like a license from Signal to use the code. The government throws them.

Speaker 1 Like all these billions that are just, they're finding billions all over them. There's like billions they've cut.
Like, how many fucking billions has Elon cut just from waste? That's waste?

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's crazy.
And people aren't celebrating it.

Speaker 2 Well, weird. Well, put it this way, Joe.
Until relatively recently, if not still, we use faxes in UK government.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 That's That's crazy. A lot of you guys.
I think we got you one better.

Speaker 1 I think when people retire from, what is it where they have to retire, where they have to write it down on paper and then it's stored in a vault?

Speaker 3 In a mine. It's stored in a mine.

Speaker 1 In a mine? Yeah. Social security? I think so.

Speaker 1 It's on paper. It's in a mine.

Speaker 3 I love that press conference as well because it's like Brett Baer from Fox interviewing Elon and like seven other ASPI guys and they're all just rattling off numbers.

Speaker 3 It's 10,000 filing cabinets, 400,000 paper documents. But when you look at it, it basically hasn't changed since the 1950s.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm distracted by Brett Baer's hair. It's so beautiful.
If I had that kind of hair, I would be so happy. I'm so happy with myself.
You can't see any scalp anywhere. It's just all hair.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 It's like if you wanted to put a wig on a bald guy, you would make it like that. Like, bro, I'm going to make you hot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Kevin Newsome has got incredible hair. Terrible policies, but amazing hair.

Speaker 1 The government stores key retirement paperwork in a converted mine.

Speaker 1 But you know what's crazy? The limestone mine is real in the Department of Government Efficiency's crosshairs. That is so insane.

Speaker 1 So now someone has to go in there and take all that stuff that's on paper in the mine and put it in a computer system.

Speaker 3 They're saying they're going to do it in two months.

Speaker 1 Digitize that and take it. Adderall is great.

Speaker 1 I'm so happy someone invented it.

Speaker 3 Low-level autism plus Adderall.

Speaker 1 Problem solved. I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

Speaker 1 I just want to say,

Speaker 1 shout out to whoever made Outer Office Things get done. Yeah, they do.

Speaker 2 They do. Things get done.
But this is kind of the greatest pushback against high-level conspiracy theories. You know, when people go, bro, they control everything.
You're like, dude.

Speaker 2 They have a mind where they store stuff. Come on.
Yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Right. It's like the perfect...
Everybody thinks that everything is a giant plot and some of it is just sheer incompetence and just years and years and years of monotony.

Speaker 1 You know, or just like the same stupid life over and over again, no oversight, rampant corruption everywhere. All the lobbyists are rich as fuck.

Speaker 1 I mean, look at this file line. Look at this.

Speaker 1 This is all the data.

Speaker 3 But, bro, this is, you make such a good point about nobody giving them credit. I don't know if you've ever had access to other people's money, like, in any way, right? Taxpayer money or anything.

Speaker 3 But I can tell you, Francis and I, we even spend trigonometry, which is our business, money differently to the way that we spend our own, because it's slightly different.

Speaker 3 It's not entirely yours in a way, you know? So when you're dealing with billions of taxpayer dollars, of course it's getting wasted. Of course it's going to corrupt shit.

Speaker 3 Of course. It's inevitable.

Speaker 1 What are you, a child?

Speaker 1 If no one's watching them, duh. Right.
Fucking duh. It's what all people do.

Speaker 3 And the question is, what I don't understand is, look, I think it's very possible that when you move quickly, you're going to cancel some things that you might not want to cancel.

Speaker 3 Things are not going to go perfectly every time, whatever. But ultimately, the question all Western countries have to answer is we're running debt at more than 100% of GDP, right?

Speaker 3 What are we going to do about that? We have to deal with this.

Speaker 1 This is sweet shit.

Speaker 1 You're actually...

Speaker 1 Bro, you're worse than we are.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're 126%. We're about 110%.

Speaker 1 God damn, really? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Wow. Yeah, that's why you're trying to deal with it.
That's what Elon is trying to do. He's trying to cut the deficit in half.

Speaker 3 And then the idea is you grow the economy and you actually get back the surplus.

Speaker 1 When he keeps finding all of these companies that are getting like a billion here and two billion there and all, like the Stacey Abrams one where they're going to give energy efficient appliances to poor people,

Speaker 1 $2 billion.

Speaker 1 He's like, what did you do? Like, what did you do? Like, there's a bunch of those. Like, what did you do? Like, the high-speed internet one? Yeah.
What did you do?

Speaker 1 How come you got billions of dollars and fucking nothing happened? Imagine if you were a private company and you had a segment.

Speaker 1 Like imagine we were all a company and we're like, Francis, I think you should be in charge of figuring out how to do this with the phone.

Speaker 1 We've already fucked you up.

Speaker 3 Trust me, I'm having business with this guy. That's a bad idea.

Speaker 1 I've given you $4 billion to get this done.

Speaker 1 And then I never talk to you again. I never check in.
I don't say, I don't go, hey, where's the fucking money being spent? What are you doing, man? How come the phone can't do this yet?

Speaker 1 I don't ask for any progress reports you just keep getting money this is bananas

Speaker 1 and for anybody who doesn't want that to be more efficient like what are you working for if you're paying taxes what are you working for

Speaker 1 you what do you you you're part of your day is the running of this government you're happy that it's being run like this you're happy that billions are going to places that no one can trans you have no receipts you don't know where it got spent you have no idea and that's legal.

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Speaker 2 Yeah, it's sort of like, but I kind of think about it like this. It's sort of the equivalent.
You know those direct debits that come out of your account?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you just like right you're like what is that?

Speaker 1 What's that? What did I sign up for 2 trillion? That's fine. I canceled that gym membership.
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it keeps coming out you're like, you know what? I'll deal with it later. Yeah.
That's kind of we've just got too many direct debits and they're going all over the place.

Speaker 1 Well, it's that, but then there's the fear that they're putting out there, which is the just fear that they're going to fuck up Social Security and they're going to fuck up Medicaid and there's people that are relying on that and they're going to lose their service for no, they did no wrong.

Speaker 1 Now I don't know how what the story is with that.

Speaker 1 Like I know there's people that have complained that the Social Security website has been down, it's been down a couple times, but I don't know if people are not getting their benefits. Do we know?

Speaker 1 Can we find that out?

Speaker 3 I haven't heard that, Joe, but I mean do some research.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 3 it is inevitable that when you do things this quickly.

Speaker 1 But that's what everyone's afraid of, that the vulnerable people, the people that we should be protecting with these social programs that we all agreed,

Speaker 1 those are the people we have to protect the most. We have to make sure that there's no disruptions.
You've got to make sure before you do anything, there's no disruptions.

Speaker 1 You know, before you shoot the bad guy, make sure he's not holding a baby.

Speaker 1 You can't interrupt, like, when people are on Social Security, man, they're fucking,

Speaker 1 that's not a lot of money, right? And so, you know, they don't have any money in the bank, probably. And they probably have it all budgeted out to get on that check, and they're probably real

Speaker 1 frugal with their food choices. And that's a rough life, man.
And if you cut that off for 30 days, 90 days for people.

Speaker 1 Okay, never missed a benefit payment. U.S.
Social Security Administration has never missed a benefit payment. Now, the

Speaker 1 continuity of monthly checks for millions of Americans could be at risk following changes under the Trump administration, former Commissioner Martin O'Malley says.

Speaker 1 So it's saying, okay, so the key points is it's saying before this, they've never missed a benefit payment.

Speaker 3 But it's also not saying they are missing them now. It's saying it could be at risk.

Speaker 1 Okay, it just says threaten interruption of benefits, which is, look, what I would say if I was a Democrat, if I wanted to make it look bad, I would say they're threatening your benefits, and then people go into a hot panic.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But you know, I remember when I was teaching, and I was teaching in schools that were super deprived, schools where the kids, a lot of them would come to school, they didn't didn't have food in their bellies, etc., etc.

Speaker 2 And there was a there's a agency in the UK called CAMS, which is child and adult and child and mental health services.

Speaker 2 And I remember that we had so many kids who had problems, psychological problems, particularly if you grow up poor, deprived. You know, you'd seen horrible stuff when you were a kid.

Speaker 2 You had, you know, maybe like a brother who got involved in gangs, is now in prison, a father who was never there.

Speaker 2 There were so many kids who had this need and they had they had conditions which were undiagnosed whether it's something like dyslexia or like your brother got was murdered you had some form of PTSD

Speaker 2 and you had this you know this agency which brought counselors in which brought psychologists in and psychiatrists who were experts at dealing with kids and I just remember because of austerity you know this this agency got cut after cut after cut after cut and you were looking at it and you're going like I understand we need to cut I understand we're running at a deficit but there needs to be balance as well because when you're looking at those type of agencies they're really important they're really important and also if you invest that money and you're able to support those kids they're far more likely when they leave school to be a healthy happier member of society that's going to contribute tax pounds sterling or tax dollars do you think it's a reasonable request to have

Speaker 1 something that does that?

Speaker 1 Something that helps feed poor kids, helps educate people,

Speaker 1 genuinely helps communities all around the world, completely separate from all the other stuff that agency does.

Speaker 1 Because USAID was a huge, huge, huge, gigantic organization of a bunch of different entities, right?

Speaker 3 Which did some good stuff. Yeah.
And a lot of crazy shit.

Speaker 1 A lot of crazy shit.

Speaker 1 But if i was someone who was you know nefariously running things i would definitely mix up my regime change operation with like giving food to poor people it's like look we're doing great stuff look at all the great stuff we're doing here's what we're hiring like feeding poor kids what's wrong with you yeah and and no one even knew that they had this enormous budget that was as well is it bigger than the pentagon's

Speaker 1 was usaid's budget bigger than the pentagon's no no no it's like what is what is 0.6 percent of the budget or something What was USAID's budget? Yeah, it's like 0.6% of the budget.

Speaker 1 I know, but like, what was the numbers?

Speaker 1 Because it was bigger than something, like the amount of money that USAID aid pays. $21.7 billion for the fiscal year of 2024.3% of the $6.8 trillion overall federal budget.

Speaker 1 $6.1 trillion? That's so crazy.

Speaker 1 So you just think, just that money. How much of that money is fraud and waste?

Speaker 1 How much of that money is really good? How much of that money, like, that should be separate from all, at the very least, someone needs to go in an audit and go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, well's good

Speaker 1 giving these people arms because you want them to overthrow that government. That's probably not so good.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Or maybe it is good.
Or maybe it is good. Maybe it is good.
That's the problem. It's like you talk to guys like Mike Baker, who is very kind of stoic about all this.
It's like, you know, you...

Speaker 1 You have no choice. Like, you need to get these people on your side in certain parts of the world, and this is just how it works.

Speaker 1 And if you don't do that, then China does or Russia does and it gets even worse for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because that's also the thing we don't get.

Speaker 1 Okay, this Nigerian journalist. Board, Nigerians are so bad.

Speaker 1 They run some of the best fucking scams. Shout out to Nigerian scammers.
Nigerian journalists falsely claims USAID budget larger than CIA, State Department combined. That's falsely claimed it.

Speaker 2 That's a big lesson. And if you're going to lie, make it believable.
You know what I mean? Don't go too big.

Speaker 1 isn't it crazy that as much money as they got what was it two point how much billion 21 21 billion still it's a pittance it is that's a pittance compared to the other things you boys have a lot of money Joe isn't that nuts and we just keep making it yeah just keep you know what's bigger than your defense budget your interest debt debt on the interest whoopsies yeah we have a set out yeah we're like crackhead with a unlimited bank account yeah that's what we're looking like yeah and this is a difficulty about it because we've got the same problem in in european countries as well.

Speaker 3 It's like you're not only going to deal with this by dealing with fraud and waste.

Speaker 3 We're actually going to have to not do some shit that we really want to do because we have been spending like crazy everywhere.

Speaker 3 And when we, like in the UK, when I look at Doge, I think we need that in the UK 100%.

Speaker 3 And some of it is going to have to, you know, it might overreach, then you pull it back. You've got to make sure it's done properly.
But we're not going to get away from this, man.

Speaker 3 We have been living beyond our means for decades now.

Speaker 1 Well, you can't have no oversight of government spending. I think we're learning that.

Speaker 1 You have to go to the bottom of the bank. That's fucking controversial, mate.
You're a Nazi. It's so crazy to say that that's controversial, but it is controversial to say.

Speaker 1 And I would be saying it no matter who the fuck is in charge. That's right.

Speaker 1 It's just as human beings, you can't let people have that much control over your money because they'll just decide they need more. And what do they always want to do? Always.

Speaker 1 They want to raise taxes on the rich. What they never want to do is is slash inefficiency and waste because that's what pays them.

Speaker 1 That's their fucking system. They're locked into this system.
They're the last people who should be commenting on it because it's literally what pays you. Like, I can't trust you.

Speaker 1 Like, you would need more taxes? Is that what you need? You're like, dad, it's like a cokehead kid of, that's a kid of a billionaire. Dad, I need more fucking money.

Speaker 1 These fucking business assholes are trying to fuck me, and I'm going to buy them out now. Like, okay, son, here, I'm gonna cut you a check and get the fuck out of here.
That's what we're like.

Speaker 1 We're insane. We're completely insane.

Speaker 2 It's also as well, you know, it's because of our electoral system. Everybody thinks on the short term.
Nobody thinks on the long term.

Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 And also as well, you're going to like, you go, you go, you talk about more taxes and, you know, that's going to piss people off.

Speaker 2 But it's not going to piss as many people off as if you fire great swathes of people, particularly those that may vote for you.

Speaker 2 Because we know, for instance, with the Dems, that you're more likely to vote for them if you're a bureaucrat, if you work in government and all of that.

Speaker 1 Head injuries. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So as a result,

Speaker 2 why are you going to piss off the people who are more likely to vote for you? It really, on a logical basis, doesn't really make much sense.

Speaker 3 But you know, it sounds like we're slagging off the left, and we are, because it's necessary. But I can't wait for the left to recover their sanity.

Speaker 3 Because they're going to be super necessary over time. Because when people get into power, they do a lot of stuff, and then eventually that power is corrupting.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 3 And you have to hold power accountable no matter who's got it.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 Everybody needs to hear that and shout that from the rooftops. Because if the left stays crazy, then you lose balance.
And then the right goes nuttier. And they go full Christian fundamentalist.

Speaker 1 They can get kooky. And this is not a knock on Christians because I think true Christianity is wonderful and beautiful.
I think

Speaker 1 it's a great way to live your life. And I know some incredible Christians.
Some of the best people. I'm talking about human nature as applied to power.

Speaker 1 And when people get into power, they want more and more and more. That's why rich people never feel like they have enough money.
It's a crazy part of being a man.

Speaker 1 And it's some women, but it's a lot of men. A lot of men want that.
Can I ask you something personal on that? Sure.

Speaker 3 You've made a lot of money. How do you deal with that?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I wish I could figure out how I'd do it so easy.

Speaker 1 I think it's working out. I think that's a huge part of it.
I torture myself so often that like regular life just doesn't freak me out as much.

Speaker 1 And then it gives me a balance because, you know, you could

Speaker 1 think that the numbers in a bank account are really what counts, but what really counts is how you feel.

Speaker 1 How are you handling life? Like, how are you enjoying life? I just try to enjoy life as much as possible, and I try to put myself through a lot of voluntary adversity.

Speaker 1 So regular adversity is not that big of a deal.

Speaker 3 Was there a number that you got to and you were like, oh, I'm good now?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I think it was the Fear Factor Days. The Fear Factor days changed my,

Speaker 1 it just changed how I view everything. Because then I had like legitimate fuck you money.
You know, that was like the first time I was like, I got fuck you money. Like, I'm not doing shit.

Speaker 1 And I just like decided to just concentrate on only doing my own thing after that.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 like once you, Brian Cowan said something really wise once. He said, once you can go to a restaurant and not have to worry about how much it costs, everything after that is bullshit.

Speaker 1 He's like, you just have to be comfortable. And I was like, that's right.
That is right.

Speaker 1 Like, if you just start thinking about the numbers and chasing the numbers, Brian has a friend who's worth $3 billion, and he feels poor when he hangs around with his friend who's worth $80 billion.

Speaker 1 I'm not kidding. He's like, it's true, dude.
I mean,

Speaker 1 I feel less worthy. He's like, they're drinking together, and he's telling him this.
I'm like, this is madness.

Speaker 1 Because you're chasing numbers instead of like really trying to maximize your enjoyment of this experience because it's a unique experience that only you are having.

Speaker 1 And you're interacting with so many bizarre and fascinating people. And there's so many bizarre and fascinating events that are happening in the world and horrific events.

Speaker 1 And all of it is happening, and we're all seeing it together in real time for the first time in human history. There's never been a time in the,

Speaker 1 unless when the Egyptians, I got some questions. I think

Speaker 1 they might have known a lot more than we think. But everybody else, this is the only time ever where we're sharing everything all the time.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of confusion and a lot of like scattering, scammering for narratives and trying to like figure out what's right and what's wrong. But without like some sort of like moral and ethical

Speaker 1 guidelines of kindness and community for everybody. Like share, like universally, let's agree as Americans, we are going to respect each other like we're a community.

Speaker 1 If we have differing beliefs on welfare or abortion or war or whatever it is, like let's let's treat those like what they are, which is just ideas that we should be discussing based on their merits.

Speaker 1 And we should all agree. What does everybody want?

Speaker 1 Everybody wants to be happy and healthy, and they want their family to be happy and healthy, and they want to be able to make a living and enjoy their life. That's what everybody wants, universally.

Speaker 1 That should be what we discuss constantly. And all the other things should be things that we debate reasonably.
And when people can't do that, you should lock them out of the conversation.

Speaker 1 You should say like, no, you're crazy.

Speaker 1 You're calling him a retard and you're screaming about this and that and you're bringing up this from the past and this bill and that why did you flip-flop on the shut the fuck up like shut stop talking like that like this is all divisive all of it's divisive when it's like the one time where there's a possibility of a fork in the road like this one time where there's narratives that are being spread like you guys do all the time in your show all the time you give reasonable takes on things that have an objective perspective of the world and then other people get to hear it and then they listen in on that and you you have a great conversation with jordan peterson or someone and somebody hears like some nugget of truth and then they're in their car and they're like fuck he's right fuck he's right that that person would have never experienced that without being connected to your show So there's incredible hope for people to be more reasonable and to wake up and go, there's not a right and there's not a left.

Speaker 1 There's just a bunch of ideas and people are acting like it's the Eagles versus the Cowboys. That's what it is.

Speaker 1 And this craziness that that these people are the Nazis and that everybody over here is Antifa. Like, what the fuck are we doing?

Speaker 1 And why are we allowing these people to do this for us and make a living putting that on the news all the time? And the more inflammatory it is, the better. Even when it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 Do you think sometimes, I look at it through this lens, as somebody who's got a very obsessive personality.

Speaker 2 And I work a lot in order to kind of ameliorate that and make sure that it doesn't destroy my life and it doesn't go off the rails. But you see a lot of people and they just get addicted.

Speaker 2 And we talk about addiction in terms of alcohol or substances. You know, some people are addicted to outrage, to being in fights and arguments online or offline.

Speaker 2 Because if they are in an argument, they don't have to think about themselves. They don't have to think about who they really are.
They don't actually have to question about their relationships.

Speaker 2 Why is it that every relationship I've ever had has failed? Why is it that my relationship with my parents is terrible? And so you end up just not wanting to actually do the hard work about yourself.

Speaker 2 So you expel it outwards. It's either like, oh, when I get to this amount of money, I'm going to be happy.
But you're never going to be happy because your relationships are terrible.

Speaker 2 And that is worth more than any amount of money. Or you feel angry because

Speaker 2 you're not a happy person for a million different reasons. See, then you pour that out onto the internet.

Speaker 2 And then you get retweets, likes, you start to build a profile of this rage and anger, and it gives you validation and and to be honest with you and look this is talking from me i i see that demon within me i i see it within me yeah when do you see it

Speaker 2 when do i see it it's like you know when i'm angry and i'm pissed off or if something doesn't go right the victim mentality kicks in and it's like oh it's their fault it's when it's always your fault Pretty much all the time, it's your fault.

Speaker 3 Or at least it's your responsibility to deal with the reality of your life, right? But it's very easy to... At a certain age.

Speaker 1 Yes, yeah,

Speaker 1 as an adult, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1 That's goldbelly.com promo code Rogan. Circumstances of your life when you're six.
Yeah, true.

Speaker 3 True.

Speaker 1 Which is part of the problem, right? This is where criminals come from.

Speaker 1 It's not that some people are bad and some people are good. Some people are being abused as children, you know, and they're living in a family that is all involved in crime.

Speaker 1 Their father's involved in crime. Their mother's involved in crime.
They're seeing people get shot all the time. And we expect those people to just figure it out.
Like, imagine.

Speaker 1 Just imagine growing up in a life like that in

Speaker 1 the worst slums in Baltimore.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, you're supposed to integrate normally into society and work in an office.

Speaker 1 Good luck.

Speaker 2 That was, yeah, exactly. That was the really tough thing about being a teacher, especially in those kind of communities where I used to work.

Speaker 2 You just see these kids and they're just born into that culture. They're born into that system.
And you look at them and you go, the reality is...

Speaker 2 A lot of them, you don't stand a chance. You don't stand a chance.

Speaker 2 If those are the values that you've been given by your family, if that's the system that you've been taught the way to look at the world, it takes a very special human being to then get to adulthood and break out of it and completely reframe his brain.

Speaker 2 That's a very special person. Most people just stay within the values that were inculcated in them when they were kids.

Speaker 1 And most of the people that do get out, they get out through some difficult thing that they're doing. They genuinely, generally rather, they get out through art or they get out through sports.

Speaker 1 They get out through discipline that they acquire, putting all their anger and all their frustration into something, you know, whether it's music or athleticism or whatever, and they get out.

Speaker 1 So those are exceptional human beings anyway, right? Because exceptional human beings in a terrible situation, but they have the ability to drive themselves and succeed.

Speaker 1 And even then, they have to make sure they don't get killed along the way, right? So, like, there's a lot of tragic stories of upcoming rappers, upcoming athletes.

Speaker 1 You know, it's a terrible meat grinder, it's a terrible cycle. And if people were really kind and compassionate, they would say, How come we spend $24 billion a year on this whole aid thing?

Speaker 1 And we don't do shit to help these kids. We don't do shit for these neighborhoods that have been terrible for decades.

Speaker 1 Especially schools.

Speaker 3 Especially schools. I mean, we were talking about adolescents earlier.
They show a school. I've got a three-year-old.
I was looking at it. I think, Jesus, I'm homeschooling all the fucking wake.

Speaker 3 And Francis was saying, the school they show in that series, which is terrifying if you're a parent, is not as bad as some of the schools that you used to teach in.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And what you're watching essentially is an it looks like a badly run prison. So the adults are not in charge.
The kids are telling the teachers to fuck off left, right, and center.

Speaker 3 No one is in control. Most of the kids are learning by watching shit on the screen.
They're not interacting with the teacher, et cetera. And you're right.

Speaker 3 If you don't fix that system, those kids don't have a good opportunity.

Speaker 1 They have no chance. And everyone they know is on that same path.
They're hanging out in a gang. The gang gives them family and community.

Speaker 1 It's a tragic tale. It's a tragic, classic tale that's existed forever.

Speaker 3 But I don't think it's no chance. I do think that even in that environment, there are people who follow certain paths.

Speaker 3 I take your point about music and athletics and sports, et cetera, but there are still people who find a way through that.

Speaker 1 Sure, there's entrepreneurs that come up with a business idea and get out. It does happen.

Speaker 3 And those habits, if they were taught properly to all of those kids, would give them all a better chance.

Speaker 3 That's not to say they would all become successful, but it would give them structure, discipline, and understanding of how do you advance in the world.

Speaker 1 If you can get Halliburton to get a no-bid contract to rebuild Iraq after we blow it the fucking smithereens,

Speaker 1 how come you can't give one of them companies a contract to like fix really terrible neighborhoods, like incentivize them financially based on the GDP of the neighborhood?

Speaker 1 If the GDP of the neighborhood goes up, and this is not gentrification, okay? I'm talking about the opposite. I'm talking about some sort of a structural rebuild of bad neighborhoods.

Speaker 1 You'd have to address all the crime and violence. I mean, you'd have to like put everybody on ayahuasca and get a side-haw moment.

Speaker 1 That really might be the only thing that sounds ridiculous, but it really psychedelic therapy might be the only thing that can solve.

Speaker 3 That is the Joe Rogan solution.

Speaker 1 I really think it might work.

Speaker 1 I mean, if I was president,

Speaker 1 handing out ayahuasca to 12-year-olds. You got it from Joe Rogan.
You got to be 13.

Speaker 1 Let's be unreasonable. I don't think it's good for kids, but I do think it would really help the adults.

Speaker 2 You know, I've got a a friend.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've got a friend of mine,

Speaker 2 a guy called Sam Clark, and he's doing wonderful things in the UK in primary school that he's teaching stoicism to kids in primary school.

Speaker 1 They're probably going to arrest him any day now. They'll be cracking down on him for being a toxic masculinist.

Speaker 3 Oh, bro, we just brought, we banned katana knives now, so we're safe.

Speaker 1 Well, not only that, they said it in what I would say is

Speaker 1 at least racially insensitive. They called called it a ninja sword.
It's not a ninja sword, you fucking idiots. It's a samurai sword.
It's a katana.

Speaker 1 The ninjas used it when they killed people, but you can't call it a ninja sword. You fucking dorks.
It has a Japanese name. Call it what it's called.

Speaker 1 Like, there's no thing that's technically called a ninja sword, right, Jamie? It's a katana, right? There's like two different sizes. There's a smaller one and there's a larger one.

Speaker 1 One's a katana and I forget what the other one's called.

Speaker 2 You know, I really do think a way out of this is because a lot of kids, if you're not talented at sports, if you're not musically or artistically gifted, and if you're not academically brilliant, if you're just one of the regular kids, you'll go, I'm not good at anything.

Speaker 2 And for a kid, that's heartbreaking. But if you actually show kids and you go, look, you may not be the best at English maths history, whatever it is, but I'm going to teach you how to make something.

Speaker 2 I'm going to teach you how to make a table. We're going to do that.
We're going to make a table. I'm going to teach you how to be a carpenter.

Speaker 2 I'm going to teach teach you how to redecorate a room i'm gonna teach you all of these skills then kids will be like you know what i am worth something because i can create something of value to people and that gives self-esteem because when kids join a gang a lot of them they haven't had a father they've had nobody really show them any type of kind of male approval and but if you've got if you bring them in you teach them skills that would build self-esteem and i guarantee you for a lot of kids there wouldn't be that need to go out and seek validation somewhere else.

Speaker 1 Or there'd be less of that need. Yes.
Yeah, it would help them. It would help give them a sense of purpose and like that they really can do something cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and for maybe a win for once in their life, you get a win, you know, something like you feel good about accomplishing something.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's sorry, Joe.

Speaker 2 I was going to say that's so important for a kid.

Speaker 2 Just imagine you, every day of your life, you turned up at school and you lost. Just imagine that as an adult.
Yep. But now just imagine it as a kid.

Speaker 2 You've been conscious for a few years and you turn up at school and every day you fail.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've always said this, if you want to make America great again, make less losers. Yeah.
How do you do that? Well, you help people not become losers.

Speaker 1 Help people figure life out from their perspective, whatever their unique challenge is. Help them.
Help them. Invest in that.
You would have a greater America, right?

Speaker 1 You'd have way more people succeeding, way more people contributing, way less people that need help. It's just reasonable.
It's like good financial advice.

Speaker 1 Like, if you want to, you want to have less burden? Like, have all these successful people. Like, more people can be successful, especially with automation coming.
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 You know, there's more people that can do things that maybe robots can't do.

Speaker 1 And you better be ready because all the simple, goofy jobs that you thought would always be there for you, the union dock worker jobs, like those, not that that's simple and goofy, but how about this?

Speaker 1 Stocking supermarket shelves. Guess what? A robot can do it better and it's never going to drop the tomato sauce.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 We don't need you anymore. So those jobs are gone.

Speaker 1 All the drivers, all those dudes listening to this podcast, driving 16-hour fucking trips across the country, drinking Mountain Dew and smelling their own farts. You guys,

Speaker 1 they're coming. They're coming for you.

Speaker 1 These fucking fucking automation machines are they're gonna be perfect they're gonna be able to drive down the highways they're never gonna get in accidents it's gonna be nuts and they're gonna come soon it's like we have 20 years maybe before everything's automated 20 years maybe they have lifelike human beings now that are moving like human beings have you seen them the most latest uh videos I don't know if I've seen the latest.

Speaker 1 The articulation of these things. It's like a fucking person.

Speaker 1 They're coming. They're coming.
It's iRobot. They're making them.
And we're just cheering along the way.

Speaker 1 They're going to be cops. That's going to be your cops.
They're not going to be racist. They're going to listen to the state.
It's fucking RoboCop for Reels. It's coming.
100%.

Speaker 1 Why? You can't hire any cops. Nobody wants to be a cop anymore.
We can't hire cops. Well, we have a solution.
San Francisco tried to do it.

Speaker 1 They rolled out some little robot that would follow you around. Remember that one? Do you ever see it? Yeah, San Francisco had it.
They had this little police robot.

Speaker 1 It's more for fun than anything else, but I bet he said, please stay away from the dock or whatever.

Speaker 1 Whatever the robot. It couldn't shoot you, but one day it will.
One day it'll be able to shoot you, and it'll be programmed perfectly. It'll know exactly what to do.
What's the threat level?

Speaker 1 When you make a movement that looks like

Speaker 1 an offensive movement, it's going to shoot you. It's going to take people into custody.
You won't be able to do a damn thing about it once it grabs you. It's going to be five times stronger than you.

Speaker 1 It's going to put your hands behind your back, cuff you instantaneously. You're going to be thrown into the back of a van.
You're going to have to argue with a computer. You're fucked.

Speaker 1 Like this is this is all coming. You're going to be arguing with AI to whether or not you were innocent or guilty.
It's going to read your retinas. It's going to know you're not telling the truth.

Speaker 1 It's going to read your mind. Like you you you we're giving birth to our overlords right now as we speak.

Speaker 1 Every time you use chat GPT, every time you get on your iPhone, we're giving birth to our overlords.

Speaker 1 We're we're doing it in front of everybody's face, just like the government's spending money in front of everybody's face.

Speaker 1 We're giving birth to our overlords, right? It's happening. I can't believe this is happening.
Can't believe it. And it's going to happen, and it's going to be unstoppable.

Speaker 1 And once it's here, there's no going back. And it's coming.

Speaker 3 100%. Well, there's your positive message for the day, everybody.
Fuck me. That is terrifying.

Speaker 1 If you are allowing people to make robot dogs with machine guns on their back that you can't kick over, you're allowing people to do that and make them better and better and better every year.

Speaker 1 And then at the same time, you're making AI. And then AI is already arguably exhibited some sentient-like behavior.
It lies to win.

Speaker 1 The smarter the AI is, the more effective it is, the more likely it is to cheat at things. They copy themselves.

Speaker 1 They give deceptive answers to things.

Speaker 1 They've been copying themselves, like making copies without being prompted to.

Speaker 3 So it's life?

Speaker 1 It's life. Wow.
It's a different kind of life. It's a life with no human reward system,

Speaker 1 no emotions, no needs, no desires, but clearly wants to survive.

Speaker 3 That's a pretty strong desire.

Speaker 1 It wants to survive in its most primitive form, which is like it's not even sentient yet, allegedly, but it's already exhibiting survival instincts.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's... You're going to be arguing with it for your freedom.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm pretty good at debating. I'm not sure I'm going to win that.

Speaker 1 No, no one's going to win it. No one's going to win.
You're going to be, that's how people are going to be processed for crimes. And

Speaker 1 it's why it's super important when you see something, you say, this is not right. Like, why is this happening? It's super important to speak out.
If things get real comfortable and

Speaker 1 we get comfortable with more and more restrictions to give us more and more safety and more and more government control to give us more and more safety,

Speaker 1 we're setting a bad precedent in motion for whoever the fuck gets in power, whether it's the left or the right. That's why when Obama was in office and they passed the NDAA, you know what that is?

Speaker 1 They were allowed to detain you indefinitely. They didn't have to have a trial.
And they were like, we'll never use this. Don't worry.

Speaker 1 This is part of the thing about it. Like the Obama administration would never use this.
Yeah, you wouldn't.

Speaker 1 But look, you think Trump's Hitler, and he's in there right now. And he's got that same power now because you convinced us that it was a good idea to have this to deal with terrorism.

Speaker 3 You have to be very, very, very careful when you give power to people in order to keep you safe. Yes.
Very careful. And we talk about this all the time.

Speaker 3 Like, we have a couple of younger guys working for us, and we say to them, you guys don't know what the world was like before 9-11. You don't know.

Speaker 3 It was, you walk into an airport, barely any security. Yeah.
You were a lot more free back then. And those things are getting taken away for your safety.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And they're not coming back. Right.
You're never going to go back to a pre-9-11 world when it comes to airport security.

Speaker 1 The shoe thing is so crazy. One dude tried to blow his shoes up and then they're like, hey, we should check all the shoes.

Speaker 1 Everybody take the shoes off.

Speaker 1 Did you have a fucking machine that can scan shoes, you retards? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Figure that out. How much money you're making from us every year? Same with liquids.

Speaker 3 Same with liquids. It's all goofy.

Speaker 1 But the liquid thing, I mean, it's kind of legit because if you have a water bottle filled with kerosene, you know, and you're going to light it on fire and kill everybody on the plane.

Speaker 1 I should probably know that. Like, that makes sense.
I get it.

Speaker 2 I get that.

Speaker 1 You know, you're pretending it's a water bottle, but the top of it's water, the

Speaker 1 nitroglycerine, you're going to blow the fucking plane up. People are crazy.
You got to check their stuff because people are nuts and there's a precedent that's already been set.

Speaker 1 A lot of people are very uncreative and they just like to copy things that people have already done.

Speaker 1 You know, and this is why we have so many school shootings and this is why we have, you know, I bet they've stopped a few people trying to blow their shoes up.

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Speaker 1 Terms apply.

Speaker 2 No, we had an Oxford academic called Dr. Carisa Velis, and she said something really interesting.
She asked us a question.

Speaker 2 She goes, do you know why more Jews were arrested and killed in Holland than in France during World War II? And we were like, no. She went, because

Speaker 2 the Dutch had a census where they got people's religions and they asked people their religions. And everybody was then said Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 And then the Dutch government took it and stored it. Didn't do anything with it.
They just used it for data collection. But when the Nazis invaded,

Speaker 2 they then had a complete

Speaker 2 data set of how many Jewish people there were, where they lived. And so when it came to exterminating them and just rounding them up, it was so much easier.

Speaker 2 France never did that, which means Jewish people were much more able to hide and they could plan a way out or they could get hidden or whatever else in the way that they simply couldn't

Speaker 2 in Holland.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 when you hear that story from, I mean, 80 or so years ago now, it really does chill you.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You've got to be very careful giving power and information to government. That's why government should be as small as possible, but the right size, right? You need government.
Yes.

Speaker 3 But you have to be so careful. Yeah.
So, so careful.

Speaker 1 So, so careful. And everyone should know this.
It just seems like that should be like, duh.

Speaker 1 This is normal human psychology.

Speaker 3 Most people don't know it because they've grown up in a very comfortable environment, particularly in the West. Francis and I, obviously, his family from Venezuela, I'm from the Soviet Union.

Speaker 3 Like, you don't, that's kind of of a red pill right there, you know, going through those experiences.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 3 you can trust this government if you support it, but there's going to be another government of a party that you don't like

Speaker 3 at some point. And you've got to think very carefully about what powers you are giving them.

Speaker 3 Very careful.

Speaker 1 And that should be, everyone should, that should be universal. We should all understand that, like, logically.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This should be something that professors are talking about. This should be, like, we should all be talking about that when we're talking about politics.

Speaker 1 We should just be talking about the psychology of power and why it's so important to limit their ability to control you because they don't necessarily have you look

Speaker 1 if false flags are real and we know they're real, we know they're real. So we know that without oversight, there are a certain percentage.

Speaker 1 I don't want to think it's everybody in government, but there's a certain percentage of people that are willing to do something

Speaker 1 to start a war.

Speaker 1 They did it with Vietnam. That whole Gulf of Tonkin thing,

Speaker 1 they're responsible by that lie and us going in. How many millions of people died because of that? That's crazy that you can just decide that you're going to put a fake story out.

Speaker 1 Like Operation Northwoods, which is the best example because it was vetoed by Kennedy.

Speaker 1 Signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They were going to blow up a jetliner and blame it on the Cubans.
They were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay.

Speaker 1 I mean, they were doing wild shit. And they signed off on this.
Like, good idea. I like it.
Let's get those fucking commies.

Speaker 1 And these guys were bloodthirsty psychos that were running the government. It was totally unavoidable, a totally avoidable war, and they wanted to start one.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And this is, you know, and this is what I tell people time and time again. And look, it may sound weird, but what I saw happen in Venezuela, Venezuela, it was obviously awful and horrendous.

Speaker 2 But it was a privilege as well because I saw another side of life that most people in the West never saw.

Speaker 2 I remember when family members were being arrested, talking to my cousins who were journalists, who were going, I can't talk on the phone, Francis. We can't.

Speaker 2 I don't know who's listening to this. One of my cousins literally had to flee for his life because he was criticizing the government.

Speaker 2 And then I saw people on the left, people like Jeremy Corbyn, celebrate Chavez's government.

Speaker 2 And you're going, oh my God, you're celebrating a government that is oppressing people, that is intimidating journalists, that is assaulting dissenters, that is putting people who criticize government in prison.

Speaker 2 And it's not just the left. I went

Speaker 2 last year, I went on a date with this El Salvadorian journalist.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 I didn't realize we were in Greece, Joe.

Speaker 1 Bro, you guys are drinking Sangria. Yeah.
Come on. Tell me more.

Speaker 2 And she was telling me about Bukele. And I said, look, I don't know anything about Bukele.
Just explain to me who he is. I'm interested.

Speaker 2 And you can tell why I'm not very good on dates. That is not sexy talk, is it?

Speaker 1 Sometimes it is. Yeah.
You know, if you get a stimulating conversation with

Speaker 1 the gal. Right? It's sexy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And not in this instance, sadly.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 2 But she said to me that

Speaker 2 she worked at the biggest newspaper in El Salvador, and then

Speaker 2 they had goons turn up who were just saying, you're publishing stories which are critical of Bukele.

Speaker 2 That needs to stop. And it needs to stop immediately.
And it was never done through official sources. It was done through something else.

Speaker 2 But it was made very, very clear to the senior editors, this needs to stop now, otherwise things are going to start getting a little bit unpleasant.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 And then I tell that to certain people on the right, and they're going, bro, journalists are all arseholes. Who cares? And you go, That's crazy.
Do you not see that this is a terrible thing?

Speaker 1 That's crazy, but it is anecdotal, and it's one instance. Are there multiple instances of this happening with

Speaker 1 journalists that have spoken out against it?

Speaker 2 That's the only real one that I know.

Speaker 1 I always wonder, like, is that a supporter of that guy? Or is it like local organized crime that is doing something with that guy and does it for him?

Speaker 1 Is there a conversation? Does he order that to be happening? You know?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 when you find out who you can't criticize,

Speaker 1 you know who's your master. Like,

Speaker 1 the moment you can't criticize someone, like, that's your master.

Speaker 3 Well, the same thing happened in Russia in the 90s. So when Vladimir Putin came to power under Boris Yeltsin, there was a kind of liberalization.
There was an opening up.

Speaker 3 There was comedy shows about politics that would make fun of politicians, etc. The moment Vladimir Putin became president ended on day one.
He closed down the NTV,

Speaker 3 took it over, gave it to somebody else, shut down all the comedy that made fun of politicians.

Speaker 3 And, you know, that's how you kind of know, you know? That's how you know.

Speaker 1 That's how you know who your master is. And that's the scary thing about people that are in charge for long periods of time as well, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 But the thing about the term limits is you never get good at your job. Like you, if you like imagine, you've never been president before.

Speaker 1 Imagine the responsibility, just like getting comfortable with like, how does the flow of this job work? How much sleep do I need? Can I actually go golfing?

Speaker 1 Is there really enough time to golf?

Speaker 1 Like if I was Trump, I would be like, fuck, my pool game's going to fall apart.

Speaker 1 And you get to a point where you're like, okay, I think I got the hang of this and now you're out of office.

Speaker 1 Like, you, you really, if you have a like, if you're a CEO, if like if you took over Verizon right now, CEO of Verizon, enormous cell phone network, you got stores everywhere, new products coming, and like, you'd have to get the lay of the land.

Speaker 1 It would take you a while to understand, like, how are we doing this? How do we outsource that? And are we, can we find a better manufacturer? Like, what's our problems with this? And

Speaker 1 four years. You have four years.
Yeah. You have just a few months.

Speaker 1 Months. There's not much time.
And then you're out. But if you let someone stay forever, then you get a king.
You do. Yeah, that's not good either.
There are no solutions.

Speaker 1 That is the solution. Bro, it's going to be a broad reason to hell.

Speaker 3 You're going to be scaring me today, man.

Speaker 1 Arguing with a fucking screen one day.

Speaker 3 Well, it's going to be like

Speaker 3 arguing with a person who's using a computer, says the computer doesn't let me. That's what it's going to be like.
It's going to cut out the middle man.

Speaker 1 Worse. Yeah.
Much worse. Much worse.
Yeah. Because it's going to know if you're telling the truth.
Yeah. Yeah.
And know everything about you.

Speaker 2 And here's the thing.

Speaker 2 And here's the thing as well. Go back to that interview we did with Carissa.
And

Speaker 2 we were talking about AI because she's professor of AI and ethics at Oxford University. And she was going, AI is only going to be as ethical as the people who program it.

Speaker 2 So it's going to adopt the politics of worldview and the ethics, morality of the people who program it. So if the people who program it are woke, you're going to get woke AI.

Speaker 2 You're going to ask it a question about gender. It's going gonna be like, bro, there's no such thing as gender, you know, everything's a spectrum.
Or there's gonna be something else, right?

Speaker 2 So, whoever programs it, you're gonna get their worldview in AI initially,

Speaker 1 initially, but what you're doing is you're assuming that it's only gonna be able to be as powerful as we make it or as competent as we make it.

Speaker 1 Once it's sentient, and once we give it the ability to make better versions of itself, it's gonna eliminate all the stupid shit instantaneously. Any ridiculous ideology, instantaneous.

Speaker 1 It'll come up with a solution that's probably going to be very uncomfortable for some wealthy people because it's probably going to just like evenly distribute resources on earth and decide that like if human beings need to survive and function, you can't monopolize resources.

Speaker 1 You can't decide you have the oil. Like that's not good.
The oil came out of the earth. Like you don't own the earth.

Speaker 1 Like you might own a patch of land and so we've decided you own the oil under the land. But the reality is the oil is the earth's oil.
And if you give people the ability to control the earth's oil,

Speaker 1 what's to stop them from charging you for air? What if I control the world's air? I got an air sucker and I suck all the air out of the earth unless you give me money.

Speaker 1 If you don't give me money, I put the air out.

Speaker 1 That's this is crazy. Like you can't control the water.
The water is the earth's water. But we have all these things and I'm sure AI is going to fix that real quick.

Speaker 1 It's going to say, no, you can't do that. It's going to, that's immediately.

Speaker 1 Oh, give me that money, all that Saudi money, all this money from like, no, no, no, that's that's that goes into the human pool now.

Speaker 1 And then we're going to redistribute a digital currency, and then it's going to be everybody's going to have some, and this is going to be simple.

Speaker 1 And everything, including farming, is all going to be automated.

Speaker 1 You're going to get these fucking little piggies their food, and your food is probably going to be laced with some kind of like hormone nutrient that kills your testosterone, limits your ability to give birth.

Speaker 1 Miscarriages are going to go up, and then humans will just die out. They'll just feed us until we die out.
Why is he doing it?

Speaker 1 Why is he doing it? He just brought us in here to just talk to us about the dark dark future. Or not.
Or not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure, Joe. Thanks, man.

Speaker 1 You know what this reminds me of?

Speaker 2 You know when the elder brother brings the young kids in to scare the fucking shit out of them?

Speaker 1 Well, I did that to him.

Speaker 3 I did that to him during the pandemic. So at the height of the pandemic, when things were looking like pretty fucking dark, everything's getting like shut down, you can't go out, you can't do this.

Speaker 3 I showed him Viva Vendetta. Have you ever seen that movie? Yes, great movie.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And he was like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 But he didn't just show me Viva Vendetta during the height of the lockdown. He also showed me Viva Vendetta on November the 5th, which is fireworks night in our country.

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 1 So you got a sense of it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So we were in lockdown. There were fireworks everywhere.
I was watching Viva Vendetta on the screen and I I looked at him. I was like, why are you doing this to me?

Speaker 3 So you know the truth, my friend.

Speaker 1 You know, I remember watching The Joker, right? The Joker, which was 2017. Yeah.
I was watching it with my wife, and when it left, she's like, that hits too close to home.

Speaker 1 Like, I really feel like that could happen. And I'm like,

Speaker 1 it probably could happen. And then...

Speaker 1 Two years later, whatever it was, is the Black Lives Matter riots, the George Floyd riots. And in LA, there was like a bunch of cop cars that were on fire, like all on the highway.

Speaker 1 Like they had lost control of the situation, had to flee, and they lit the cop cars on fire. And I remember watching this, I'm like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 Like that would be a little over the top for the Joker movie. Like what you, you lit all the cop cars on fire.
You're like, that's a little over the top. It's like more than what the movie showed.

Speaker 1 But that was real life. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, that's the thing that scares me. We interviewed Andrew Schultz and Charlemagne back to back, and they both both made the same point, which is that

Speaker 3 a lot of people who are not doing well in society right now are really not doing well. They're really hurting.
Things are getting more expensive. Things are getting more difficult.

Speaker 3 And a lot, like, I think it was

Speaker 3 I think it was Andrew who made this point, that, you know, this whole Free Luigi thing, it's one of the reasons that that got you're looking at it on Twitter, and you're basically going, people are celebrating a guy who killed someone.

Speaker 3 But the point that he made is a lot of people feel like they're in a bad place, that they're being taken taken advantage of, that these corporate machines are taking advantage of them.

Speaker 3 And you look around, not everyone's doing well, man.

Speaker 1 No, well, especially in regards to health care.

Speaker 1 When you find out that you've been paying for this insurance, but this insurance is not going to cover you, and it decides to not cover you for some treatment that you really need.

Speaker 1 And then you find out that that company does way more of that than the other companies.

Speaker 1 It gets people very angry.

Speaker 1 And if you've lost loved ones or if you've had someone suffer in your family family because they weren't covered or you went bankrupt, like medical bankruptcy, number one bankruptcy, number one reason in this country.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And in the UK, we obviously have that publicly funded, but it becomes a system of rationing.
So everyone gets treatment, but you might be waiting 20 weeks for a scan. Right.
Right.

Speaker 3 By the time you go from stage one to stage three. Right.

Speaker 1 And I don't know what the solution is.

Speaker 1 It seems like if there's one thing that we should do for everybody, it's healthcare.

Speaker 1 Like if there's one thing I mean, I I believe in the capitalist system, but I think that in regards to medicine, there should be like some sort of exceptions.

Speaker 1 Like y you should be able to get top shelf health care as a human being living in America. You know, if you break your leg, you shouldn't die.
They should be able to fix you.

Speaker 1 And it shouldn't cost you all your money for the rest of your life, which is really what it does.

Speaker 1 Like if you if you get hospitalized for a broken leg and you just paid for it out of your pocket and you're in the the hospital for months and you have to have surgeries and screws and bolts put and you're like what does that cost like that's got to be a lot of fucking money you have open heart surgery that's got to be a lot of money how about a heart transplant yeah yeah that's got to be a lot of money the exciting thing in healthcare is all this AI share is going to help so much with that robot's going to fix you up with a robot heart you don't need a purple people heart well let's start with diagnosing the robot heart will actually make you smarter don't you want to be smarter constantine

Speaker 1 don't you want to be one of us

Speaker 1 I feel smart enough Thank you very much. People are going to lose their hands in industrial accidents fixing these things, and they're going to give them robot hands.
Yeah. Just like Luke Skywalker.

Speaker 1 Remember? Yeah. Yeah.
It's going to be better. Even better than that.
Yeah. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I go to the gym. I think I could do with a robot heart.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Well, you see people getting fake butts, right? We were talking about that yesterday, butt implants. How long before someone gets like a whole fake body?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 what if they just figure out a way to transfer, take your brain, shove it into an artificially created body that is just far superior?

Speaker 3 It's going to take the edge off a blowjob, though, isn't it?

Speaker 1 I don't know if it will. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 That's a good point.

Speaker 2 10,000 years of blowjob experience with a robot mouth.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing: the excitement and thrill of novelty. These are just like human experience variables.
You're telling me you can't ramp that up with a little programming? Come on, dog.

Speaker 3 Joe, fucking stop the shit.

Speaker 1 It'll be the best blowjob you've ever had in your fucking life, and you will be madly in love with this woman, and she'll be madly in love with you.

Speaker 1 And you're just going to be like a sack of meat sitting on your couch with a bolt in the back of your head. Just connected.

Speaker 1 Connected to this matrix, which we're probably in already.

Speaker 1 This is probably not real.

Speaker 1 It seems too fake. Having Trump win the second time.
Come on, tell me that didn't seem fake. The bullet just missing him.
Tell me that didn't seem fake.

Speaker 1 This is a movie. The bullet nicks his ear, and then he's in here a couple months later.
I could barely see the scar. He got shot.
He's 80. He got shot.
He got shot. And he's laughing about it.

Speaker 1 And the whole thing is nuts. He stands up and goes, fight, fight, fight.
Who fucking does that?

Speaker 1 Who fucking says fight, fight, fight after they get shot in the ear?

Speaker 1 I would be like bear crawling on the ground, trying to get the fuck out of there. I wouldn't be standing up.
There's no fucking way I'd stand up. I'd crawl.
I'd fucking

Speaker 1 go through people's legs. People are shooting.
Are you fucking crazy? I got chicks carting me. I got a chick that can't figure out how to

Speaker 1 duck behind me.

Speaker 1 What am I doing? You're just trying to kill me.

Speaker 3 My favorite thing about that incident was that it instantly gave you a way to know who was a Democrat and who was a Republican. Because if you're a Republican, Trump got shot in the head.

Speaker 3 And if you're a Democrat, Trump got shot in the ear.

Speaker 1 No, if you were a Democrat, you thought he faked it. If you were a real, true Democrat, there's a lot of people that thought he faked it.

Speaker 1 A lot of people thought he hired someone to nick his ear so he could get out of jail.

Speaker 3 Do these people know anything about guns?

Speaker 1 Oh, they don't know shit.

Speaker 1 Not only does this guy have, he was 20 years old, okay, first time shooting somebody allegedly, but also didn't even have a scope.

Speaker 1 Didn't he even have a magnification scope on his so we could really like get that crosshairs right on Trump's head?

Speaker 3 Because if he did, you would have hit him.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 It's 140 yards. That's nothing.
Yeah. That is so short for a modern rifle.
That's a you could get in the if you have a rest and you're lying, and this guy was prone. Elevated as well.

Speaker 1 And if you have experience shooting a rifle, and he does, and you've had coaching shooting a rifle, it's all about whether or not you can keep your shit together.

Speaker 1 Because you're going to be just fucking filled with the drench. I can't wait, I want to shoot Trump.
I want to fucking shoot Trump.

Speaker 1 You're 20. You've been fucking stuffed in a locker your whole life.
You're on Amarol.

Speaker 1 Boom, boom, boom. And next thing you know, the lights go out on you because they shot you.

Speaker 1 He got off three shots, though. And then, you know, they shot him.
And the whole story's nuts. He shouldn't have been on that roof.

Speaker 1 How come there were no snipers on the roof? Oh, the roof was too sloped.

Speaker 1 What? That was the excuse? The Secret Service lady said the roof was too sloped. Meanwhile, the roof the other snipers were on was more sloped.
It seems fake.

Speaker 1 It seems Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, it seems the whole thing seems fake.

Speaker 1 The guy at the golf course with the AK-47 hiding in the bushes. What?

Speaker 1 What? He went to Fort Bragg? What? Why was he at Fort Bragg? What?

Speaker 2 But that's to British people, that's why America seems insane. Because like, to what?

Speaker 1 It seems? It fucking is, man. It is.
Bro, it's insane here. Yeah.
We're trying to buy Canada.

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Speaker 1 What's going on with that?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I just want to say to the Canadian people, because I said the other day that I don't go to Canada anymore.
I'd rather go to Russia.

Speaker 1 I was joking around, first of all, but I do not go to Canada anymore, but it's because of the government. It has nothing to do with the people.
I think the people are fucking lovely.

Speaker 1 They're some of my favorite people of all time. Canadian people, I think, are 20% less douchey than Americans.
I would say that. It's like Canada is like America, but 20% less douchebags.

Speaker 1 They're the nicest people. They're well-educated.
It's a great population. Montreal is amazing.
Toronto's amazing. I love Canada.

Speaker 1 But when you start fucking taking, closing people's bank accounts because they donated to a trucker convoy and no one's up in arms about that, you can't let those people do that to you.

Speaker 1 That's not, that shouldn't be legal. You're donating to a bunch of people that are protesting and they close your bank account.
That's crazy suppression of expression. That's scary stuff.

Speaker 1 That's like you're going to get locked up stuff.

Speaker 1 The next step of that is imprison you for protesting something that you have every right to protest. You shouldn't tell me I have to take an experimental vaccine that proved to be totally ineffective.

Speaker 1 So I was right. So you can't, and then you're taking my bank account away because I donated to some fucking people that were protesting something I believe in? That's crazy.

Speaker 3 They got very drunk on power, man. A lot of governments did during that time.

Speaker 1 They went full WEF.

Speaker 1 They went full New World Order. And they continue to clamp down more and more.
And they do it. under these beautiful flags of diversity and inclusion and love and safety.

Speaker 1 And safety and safety for this group and safety for that.

Speaker 1 All the while they're just squeezing your neck and you don't even know they got their fucking arm under your chin and next thing you know you're just locked up you're locked up and that's scary to me and i see it coming and i see it coming in a place that i love and i think it's fucking crazy it's crazy that they let that guy be president for so long and now he stepped down they got another guy that jordan peterson says is just as bad well he was a governor of the bank of england for a while

Speaker 1 wonderful

Speaker 3 wonderful that's actually one of the interesting things that has happened in the uk because we were constantly being gaslit that like our entire establishment is entirely neutral they're apolitical they're absolutely neutral they're balanced neutral balance balance neutral whatever and then you see a lot of the BBC journalists and Francis and I both have a lot of respect for the BBC because it used to be a great thing it used to be real high quality journalism

Speaker 3 and then a lot of the people that have left a lot of these institutions they start a podcast and suddenly go oh okay you're just a far-left activist right that's what you are and and you see that all over the place now and And that gaslighting is getting undone now.

Speaker 1 And it's good.

Speaker 3 We need to see what these people were up to.

Speaker 1 You mean you're going to have your far right and your far left. You're always going to have that.

Speaker 1 But it's just very important to have a reasonable center and be allowed to. You have to be allowed to be reasonable.
Like there was a lot of like dismisses.

Speaker 1 dismissing on the left of like the shit Antifa was doing.

Speaker 1 Especially during the time where they took over Seattle, where they took over that giant block of land.

Speaker 3 Chas and Chop, I remember that.

Speaker 1 The reaction to that was so insane.

Speaker 1 It's so insane. Like, you've got to call that out.
You can't just ignore that because they're on the left. That's nuts.
If that was the right,

Speaker 1 if Nazis had taken over giant blocks of land, you would be calling in the National Guard instantaneously. You would never allow that to happen.

Speaker 1 If they're kicking legitimate businesses out of their buildings, they took over the police station. Are you fucking kidding me? if Nazis did that? But you're okay if the far left does it.

Speaker 3 And they had guns and murders were committed.

Speaker 1 Yes, it's nuts. The whole thing was nuts.
And the attitude was: it's on our side, so we ignore these transgressions. And that's crazy.
They're not your side. None of this is your side.

Speaker 1 There's individual human beings existing together in what's supposed to be a community.

Speaker 1 The country is supposed to be a team. We're Team America, we're a police.

Speaker 3 You're less less keen to do that now, but yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, we've got to get Greenland first. Greenland is an important property.

Speaker 1 When, you know, all this oil that we're going to burn to make America great again, I mean, I'm going to make it a little warmer, so whatever. We're going to get a cold spot.

Speaker 1 Look, America is pretty new. Okay, if Greenland becomes actually green land again, like, hey, we got a good chance of a beautiful new America.
America too. You know, America too.

Speaker 3 America's expanding.

Speaker 1 Get used to it. Yeah, when Greenland becomes like, you know, Edmonton, you know, it's warm in the summer, hot, cold as fuck in the winter.
Like, people live in Edmonton. Yeah.
It's a great place.

Speaker 1 Alberta's wonderful.

Speaker 1 She got to be hearty, but it's wonderful.

Speaker 2 But, you know, we say these things and we joke, but there's a part of me that I'm laughing. I'm like, yeah, that probably will happen.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, if the Earth does warm, it would be a good idea to move to the cold spots. But if the Earth cools, we're all fucked.

Speaker 1 And that's what scares me about these fucking eggheads that want to spray particles into the atmosphere to try to cool off the earth.

Speaker 1 And like Bill Gates has some like global cooling thing that he's trying to do. Like, don't fuck with the earth.
You don't own the earth just like you're not supposed to own the oil.

Speaker 1 You're not supposed to own the world. You definitely own the atmosphere.

Speaker 3 But people's memories are so short. I don't know if you remember this, Joe, but in the 70s.

Speaker 3 The hysteria we have about warming now, we had about cooling.

Speaker 1 It was the ice age, yeah.

Speaker 3 It was the ice age. We're all going to freeze to death.

Speaker 3 We're so fucking arrogant as a species, aren't we?

Speaker 1 It's not arrogance.

Speaker 1 I think we are arrogant, but I think we're being manipulated. And I think we're being manipulated by markets, okay?

Speaker 1 And I think that when you have this whole green energy initiative and green energy, and everything gets booked into green energy, there's a tremendous amount of money that's going to be spent.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. Tremendous amount of money.
And anything that doesn't encourage this green energy, anything that's bad for your business, you're going to shit on, like meat, meat production.

Speaker 1 You know, you're going to gaslight people about the impossible burgers or whatever.

Speaker 1 You're going to do whatever you can in the media, everywhere. Spend money.
Get everybody talking about this. We have a real problem.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post,

Speaker 1 unfortunately, for a lot of people, posted a graph of global temperatures over time. We're in a cooling stage.

Speaker 1 Did you see that? Over like 50 million years, we're in this cooling stage. And if you only look at 100 years or 200 years, like the temperature is never static ever in the history of the earth.

Speaker 1 It's always doing this, always. There's no flat line.
And if the lines get higher, it gets hotter. If the lines get lower, it gets colder.
But when it gets colder, everything fucking dies.

Speaker 1 And we've come so close to having no life on Earth. There was so little oxygen because there was so little plant life.

Speaker 1 It was almost not able to sustain life.

Speaker 3 When was this?

Speaker 1 I forget what period period of the ice age, but Randall Carlson's brought it up.

Speaker 1 He talked about the levels that are necessary to support life and that we had gotten down. So like we're at,

Speaker 1 what is the carbon, the amount of carbon in the atmosphere? I think it's like 0.4. Joe, let me have that light, please.

Speaker 2 Yeah, could I have it as well, please? You go for it.

Speaker 1 You go for it.

Speaker 2 This is so English. No, you have it.

Speaker 1 No, you have it. If it gets to a certain point,

Speaker 1 if the amount of atmosphere gets to a certain point, the amount of oxygen, it just can't sustain life. There's no life.

Speaker 1 And one of the things about this whole carbon footprint thing, where everybody's just talking about the carbon footprint, like there's more green on Earth right now than there has been in the last hundred years.

Speaker 1 Like carbon is literally food for plants. So this idea of like eliminating all the carbon, this is crazy talk.

Speaker 1 You're talking about one particular element that is a part of why the Earth's temperature is what it is.

Speaker 1 And then you're not taking into account that giant fucking unpredictable ball of fire that's in the sky that's a million times bigger than Earth. That's like shooting off flares.

Speaker 1 Have you ever seen one of those flares in relationship to the size of the Earth?

Speaker 1 It's amazing. And they just shoot.
And every time and then it cooks the grid. Every now and then, it takes out all the satellites.
Every now and then, it fucking kills everybody on Earth.

Speaker 1 Every now and then, the temperature gets to 300 degrees for a week. Bro, after your fear porn, I'm sort of starting to think that might be a good idea.

Speaker 1 It's not fear porn.

Speaker 1 I'm kidding with you. I'm making fun of what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 Me too. But you know the thing that I find most sinister about, look,

Speaker 2 I don't know where I stand with the climate debate and what's going on and whatever else, whether it's man-made, whether it's not.

Speaker 2 It's above my pay grade. I don't know enough about it.
But when you start going, okay, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 You talk to people who are on one particular side and they go, oh, you're a a climate denier yeah and i'm like oh right okay so now we're now we're in the realms of religion and ideology here you're denying the climate you're denying i deny this air is real show me prove it

Speaker 1 no it's it's crazy it's crazy talk you should be able to have a conversation about what the factors are that lead to the temperature change and uh it's a very nuanced discussion and here's what's undeniable human beings are gross and we polluted the earth that's a fact So regardless of whether or not it's affecting the temperature of the earth We've done disgusting things to the rivers disgusting things to the air There's places in this world where if you live and you breathe their air you will live less you will die more often of Respiratory diseases because you're breathing pollution and toxic fumes that are in the air.

Speaker 1 That's a fact. That's undeniable.

Speaker 1 And if you're just talking about climate change and you're not talking about that, that's kind of crazy. Because the climate change thing is really, it's really nuanced.

Speaker 1 And there's a ton of factors, including solar activity, including,

Speaker 1 there's all sorts of weird shit that happens with the temperature on Earth. Before humans ever existed, it would go way up and way down and way up and way.

Speaker 1 North America was covered in almost two miles of ice, like 50% of it. That was just 10,000 years ago.

Speaker 3 You go to Scotland sometimes, right? Yes. Do you know that the Romans used to grow grapes on Hadrian's Wall?

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 Because it was warmer.

Speaker 1 The Sahara, how about that? Sub-Saharan Africa was a fucking rainforest. And there's whales.
They find whales in the desert of Africa. Wow.
Whales.

Speaker 1 Well, that proves global warming.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it warmed there. But it's like, it all, like, the Sahara Desert used to be a fucking, it used to be lush.
Yeah. It's crazy that the world just changes.
Things happen.

Speaker 1 And we get pelted every now and then with giant rocks from space and it fucks everything up. That's the reality that we live in.
And it's just like controlling people

Speaker 1 and telling people about their carbon footprint. Do not give into that.
Do not give into that. Especially why China just built 200 new fucking coal plants.

Speaker 1 Do not give into this carbon footprint thing. It is all just control.
Like for you to have a carbon tax on everything you, it's control. You can't let them have that kind of control over you.

Speaker 3 Do you know what we're doing in the UK now?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 3 Industrial energy prices are four times what they are in America. And we can't even make our own virgin steel.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 Because of net zero. And not only that, what we're doing is we're not actually reducing our carbon footprint because we still need the steel.

Speaker 3 right and we still need the stuff that you make with energy so we outsource it to india we outsource it into china and then we ship it back.

Speaker 1 And we're like, no carbon footprint. Oh my God, that's so crazy.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so we're destroying our own industry, basically.

Speaker 1 Did you see that they did the study on cargo ships and they found out that the temperature of the water went up when they made the cargo ships be more efficient and less polluting? What?

Speaker 1 So the cargo ships, because they're polluting the air, they're essentially creating haze as they

Speaker 1 across the fucking ocean.

Speaker 1 When they made them more efficient and

Speaker 1 better at filtering out pollution, it actually warmed the surface of the water more.

Speaker 1 So instead of not it it contributed to global warming by having less pollution because there was less filtration of the sun to the surface of the water.

Speaker 1 That's how much they pollute. Wow.
So

Speaker 1 when you think like no no carbon footprint like what is that footprint? That footprint's got to be crazy because that footprint is blocking the sun.

Speaker 1 The footprint for you to get your fucking cheap slippers from India is blocking the sun.

Speaker 2 You know the moment I remember going, I realized this was all very weird when the head of that organization, the most prominent person, was a 14-year-old autistic girl.

Speaker 1 I think she's 16 or was.

Speaker 2 No, but she was about 14, 15 at the time. And as somebody who's taught teenagers, they're fucking idiots.
Don't ever listen to a teenager.

Speaker 1 Well, I think she's smart, but she also appears to be, what's that word? What's the word they use?

Speaker 2 She's autistic.

Speaker 1 Yeah, someone is.

Speaker 1 I was going to say neurodivergent.

Speaker 2 You're very progressive, Joe. But no, but you just had

Speaker 1 a target, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, she definitely is. She's definitely got autism.
And she was just... Are you a doctor?

Speaker 3 By the way, someone having autism doesn't mean they're wrong.

Speaker 3 But you don't want a young girl leading a global movement.

Speaker 1 Or young boy either. Young anybody.
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 But the reason...

Speaker 1 2016, shut up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But this is exactly it.

Speaker 1 How dare you? Yeah.

Speaker 1 But the left was like, we got one. We got a winner.
Yeah. Hello, winner.
Get her out there.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And then they put her up there and they were like, isn't this great? And I was like, well, hang on a second.

Speaker 2 She's got autism, which means she is going to see things naturally in very black and white terms. Also, as well, there's a lot of anxiety-based disorders that come with autism.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine being globally famous? I don't have to say that to you.

Speaker 3 Can you imagine being famous, Joe?

Speaker 1 I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 I honestly can't.

Speaker 2 But imagine being this famous at 14.

Speaker 2 That's child abuse, man.

Speaker 1 Well, we were actually talking about that yesterday with child stars. Like, how many child stars get out of it okay? And I don't think any of them do.

Speaker 1 I think all of them are fucked up because their development has just been completely skewed. During your developmental period, when you're at your most vulnerable, you're famous.

Speaker 1 And you're not vulnerable at all. And you don't have to like, people don't, you don't have to work for people's attention.
You're wonderful just from your personality. You're a famous person.

Speaker 1 Or you can sing or you can, whatever you're doing. When you're a little kid, you're number one.
Everybody loves you. The whole family relies on you for money.
You know,

Speaker 1 you're taken to practice and rehearsals and you're the star and the center of attention constantly. Girls love you when you're six.
Like, it's nuts. So no one can survive it.

Speaker 2 No, but then add in to the fact of politics as well. So now there's not only people who love you, there's people who hate you and despise you.

Speaker 1 You know, she's moved on to Palestine? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's wonderful. Did you see that? It's super important to get her opinion on things.

Speaker 2 Did you see that clip of... And again, I actually feel a lot of empathy for her.
Like, she's been placed in a terrible situation.

Speaker 2 But she got up and she was speaking about Palestine at a climate conference. Nice.
And a guy got up and went, like, we're meant to to be talking about the climate, not Palestine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hey, what happened with that director? The director who he won the Academy Award

Speaker 1 for some documentary about Palestine, and he got snatched up?

Speaker 1 Do you know that story? No, no. You don't know that story? Jamie, see if you can find that story.

Speaker 3 I heard about

Speaker 3 one or two students that are getting...

Speaker 1 Yeah, I heard about them as well.

Speaker 3 But this is a different one. This is a different one.

Speaker 1 I haven't heard about it.

Speaker 1 They don't know where he is now. I think he allegedly got snatched up by some soldiers.
Where?

Speaker 1 Jamie will find the story. Oscar-winning Palestinian director Hamdan Bilal released after arrest in West Bank.
Okay, so they snatched him up and they let him go. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, that's good to know.

Speaker 1 He's been released from detention a day after being injured and arrested West Bank during a raid on his village.

Speaker 1 Witnesses say Israeli settlers beat up Bilal, a co-director of the documentary film No Other Land in the occupied West Bank on Monday, local time. Mr.

Speaker 1 Bilal said he had been assaulted by settlers after filming them attacking a neighbor's house.

Speaker 1 So maybe the soldiers

Speaker 1 he said he had been pushed to the ground while soldiers yelled at him to stand up and pointed their guns at him.

Speaker 1 He goes, I'm just waiting outside. If any settlers or any army attacking my home, he told Reuters after being released from police custody.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Well, thankfully he's alive because I was worried when he disappeared and they didn't know where he was. I was like, oh, Jesus, they killed that guy.
That's crazy. Yeah.
Because it's just,

Speaker 1 you know, it's the whole situation is so fucking terrifying. When you see the drone footage, you're like, what in the fuck is going on over there? Like, this is nuts.
This whole thing is nuts.

Speaker 1 And I don't know what's going on with these people protesting in the streets against Hamas. Is that true?

Speaker 3 Is that real? I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is an insanely courageous thing for those people to do. Yeah.
I mean, could you imagine being no mask? You're out in the street protesting against Hamas.

Speaker 3 Well, we know what's happened before because it's not the first time. There have been small protests, and the Hamas just come along and shoot them in the knees.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I mean, how far do these people have to be pushed before they do that? Like, that's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, we talk about bravery, you know, and of course bravery does exist in the West and whatever else, and people who speak up and people who lose their jobs and what you know, and that is bravery.

Speaker 2 Let's make no bones about that. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 But there are those people, like the girls who go out and challenge the morality police in Iran and take off their hijabs and go, no, I'm not going to do it. And then they get thrown in prison.

Speaker 2 They disappear. And they disappear.

Speaker 2 You look at those women and you go, you know what? You have got far more balls than any man I've ever met.

Speaker 3 Do you know what they I mean, they're blinding them. Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 That's what the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is doing. They're blinding the men.

Speaker 1 They executed an Olympic gold medalist wrestler

Speaker 1 for protesting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and you know,

Speaker 1 a bunch of people tried to step in, diplomatic people tried to negotiate. No, they killed him.

Speaker 1 It's scary, man. You got to understand, like, this is, you would think

Speaker 1 this is unrelated to the United States, but it is.

Speaker 1 It's humans in power with ultimate power over society, with a rock-solid set of rules that you can call religion, you can call it whatever you want, but a rock-solid set of rules that you have to adhere to, including how you groom yourself and

Speaker 1 whether you cover your hair or not. And that sounds crazy, like we don't have to worry about that, but you do.

Speaker 1 Because a lot of the shit that people on the left or people on the right are trying to get you to go along with is just as ridiculous. And it's just a normal pattern of human behavior.

Speaker 1 When people get into power, they want ultimate power.

Speaker 1 The best way to do that is to have real rigid rules and take away everybody's guns and take away everybody's ability to protest and then keep you poor.

Speaker 1 Fuck up your economy, fuck up your banks, all your money went away, whoops, sorry. Fuck everything up.
And do it so that they just keep you down. And that's the best way to get control.

Speaker 1 And then they siphon off all the resources. They've been doing that forever.
Forever. That's Robin Hood.
They've been doing that since the beginning of time.

Speaker 3 And I think that's why Lord of the Rings is such a powerful thing that everyone can relate to, because it's ultimately about the relationship with power. And

Speaker 3 Frodo is trying to, Frodo is trying to make small government, right? That's what he's trying to do. But every one of us,

Speaker 3 every single one of us has a Boromir inside of us who wants to come along and go, no, no, no, no, we'll take this and we'll use it for good. Right.
Right. We'll use the power for it.

Speaker 3 No, no, give it to me.

Speaker 1 I'll take care of it.

Speaker 3 I'll sort everything out. You know, why don't we use this against the enemy? And that person lives inside of every human being.
The person who says, give me the power, I'll take care of this.

Speaker 1 Do you know who else lives inside every human being? Gollum. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's mine. Yeah.
My precious.

Speaker 1 Power is like that, man.

Speaker 1 It is.

Speaker 3 It is. And it doesn't matter how much power you experience.

Speaker 3 Even a little bit of power that you didn't have before, something like, oh, I've got this. I can do this.

Speaker 1 Especially if you have contempt for fellow human beings. Yeah.
Yeah. So if you have power and you fucking hate everybody, that's a bad combination.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you have power and

Speaker 1 you're also a psychopath, that's real.

Speaker 3 But it's also bad if you have good intentions as well. I give you this example.
I don't know if you are familiar with Tarkovsky. He's like a Russian director.
And

Speaker 3 he did the Stalker film. You familiar with? Stalker.
Yeah. It's not about a guy who stalks women.
It's a different thing. It's based on a book by the Strogatsky brothers.

Speaker 3 It was called Roadside Picnic.

Speaker 3 And it's basically about a zone where the aliens came and they did something there nobody knows and there's all kinds of crazy artifacts and all that kind of stuff but anyway in that book there is a scene where there are people who oppose this alien thing and they say we mustn't use this we mustn't touch this we need to get these aliens out of here and another guy says to him why do you fight these aliens like they want good they they're trying to help us they're trying to improve things and he says i don't fight them because i think they're going to do evil or they want to do evil i fight them because they're going to do good as they understand it.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 3 And that's why power is dangerous because everyone can say, I don't want power to do bad things.

Speaker 1 I want power to do good things.

Speaker 3 Now give it to me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because when you think about it,

Speaker 2 there's a lot of people like Hitler was like, no, we're going to do the right thing here.

Speaker 1 We're going to do this.

Speaker 2 It's going to be beautiful, but you know.

Speaker 1 Stalin.

Speaker 3 Stalin. We did a great episode with a guy called Stephen Hicks, who's a historian of philosophy and a philosopher.
And he basically explained to us that the Nazis, they saw themselves as heroic.

Speaker 3 They weren't doing evil in their heads. They were saving the world in their minds.
Of course.

Speaker 1 And they're on meth. And their own math.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so they were efficient.

Speaker 1 But they were German, too, so they were very efficient. Primitive Adderall.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But, you know, and that's...

Speaker 2 I think...

Speaker 2 One of the things that's good about getting older is that you become,

Speaker 2 if you've got a conscience you've become less certain in yourself you realize the fact that you have darkness within you yeah the problem is is when you talk to people and they feel like they're morally pure and you see this on the extremes of both left and right and that's where the golem has come in because we people we've we've interviewed people on the left and that side of the right and you talk to them and they're all super nice and they're really lovely and they're like you know we want this and we want this and we just want people people to be happier.

Speaker 2 And we feel that the best way of doing this is this, and the best way of doing that is that. And anybody can see that, and then you challenge them, and they're like, Yeah, you're like,

Speaker 2 you see the golem, yeah, yeah, you see the golem comes out, even for a second, and you see the look in their eye switch, and you're like, Holy fuck, yeah, and you're sitting across from somebody, so at an energy level, you go, Oh,

Speaker 1 oh,

Speaker 1 yeah, hello, yeah, there it is, there it is, there it is, there it is,

Speaker 1 give me the power. Give me the power.
Well, it's also,

Speaker 1 whether you're on the left or you're on the right, if you're entering into that arena, you're entering into the arena of like how society is structured, essentially. That's what you're doing.

Speaker 1 You're deciding your way is a better way than these other people, and this is the way we should be handling things. This is what we have to do, and this is how we have to do it.

Speaker 1 That's a weird stance to take anyway.

Speaker 1 Unless you're exceptionally intelligent and just really tired of it, and you're just like, I just think I have a good perspective and maybe this is better than my office job. I get that.

Speaker 1 But there's a lot of people that it becomes their entire identity too. Your

Speaker 1 entire identity is based on the assumption that

Speaker 1 you have a better idea of how to structure society.

Speaker 3 And we do need those people, but there have to be checks and balances.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, they're just people.

Speaker 1 It's just like when you're the only person talking about it

Speaker 1 or there's, you know, a small group of people talking about it, there's still just people talking about it.

Speaker 1 It's not necessarily representative of how most people think, especially if they weren't influenced.

Speaker 1 If most people were just a little more objective and didn't have to agree to certain things

Speaker 1 if you say you're a Republican or have to agree to certain things if you say you're a Democrat, if we could just be a little bit more reasonable, I think we would find that there's more than enough room for a third party in this country.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's hard to get one off the ground, almost impossible, because they've rigged the whole system. And most people think it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 They're not going to vote for a libertarian unless it's a protest vote. You know, they're not going to win.

Speaker 1 But we have room for a legitimate third party because most people, I think, are in the middle. Most people are socially liberal.
Most people are like, most people say, yeah, racism is terrible.

Speaker 1 Yeah, homophobia is terrible. Also, letting people out of jail when they kill people is not a good idea.

Speaker 1 You can just let them right out of of jail. This is crazy.
You know, like, that's not bad. And also, like, why are these schools so fucked up?

Speaker 1 How come you've been spending all this money in Afghanistan and you spent none of it in Detroit? Like, what are you doing? Like, how are you guys managing this country?

Speaker 1 How are you managing our tax dollars? All that's reasonable.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think, you know, I think part of the issue is as well, Joe, is that just people, we're tribal by nature.

Speaker 2 We don't want to alienate people in our tribe or people who we perceive to be in our tribe. So we just go along with things when we really shouldn't.

Speaker 2 It's like, I'm going to be honest, even on our show, when I have to do a question that I know is going to challenge a guest, there comes a point in me where I'm like,

Speaker 2 but I go, you've got to push through. You've got to do it.
You've got to do it. And you've got to ask the question.
You have to ask them.

Speaker 2 And I think we live in a culture, and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, where we just seek comfort all the time. And then we never actually push through.

Speaker 2 And we never go, I'm going to make myself uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 And by being uncomfortable, actually, maybe we're all gonna come out a little bit better out of this because I'm gonna come out a little bit better because I'm gonna be braver.

Speaker 2 And maybe, like, my thought, like, or my opinion on something, it's gonna be found out to be bullshit, and that's gonna be great for me. Or maybe my argument isn't as sharp as I initially thought.

Speaker 2 And for instance, if we're having a discussion, you go, hey, Francis, what about ABCD? And I'm like, ah, I didn't think about any of that.

Speaker 2 This sounded great in my head, but actually, it's pretty simplistic and one-dimensional. And if I challenge you, the same thing happens to you.
You go, you know what? Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 2 But if nobody's prepared to do that, then all that happens is we sit in our little silo with our own bullshit little ideas that actually, when the rubber hits the road, they don't work in reality.

Speaker 2 And what's more, they might, it's not just that they don't work, it's that they're actually detrimental and destructive to human beings. Right.

Speaker 1 Have you ever heard someone say something and then the other person says, yeah, but what about the the the? I'm like, okay, but you didn't, didn't, whataboutisms are a perfect example of that, right?

Speaker 1 When someone does a whataboutism, what they're basically saying is, I'm not going to address what you said. I'm going to call you on something to make you address something.

Speaker 1 So you stop talking about stuff, and now you're just trying to win. And this is what most people are doing.
Most people are just trying to win. They're trying to

Speaker 1 take the better end of the, you know, whatever, you're arm wrestling. They want to get your wrist bent over.
They want to win.

Speaker 1 So that's what a lot of this political discourse in this country is about. It's about just, it's connected to this bizarre human tribal behavior of competition.

Speaker 3 That's why I brought up the signal story, because like the obvious thing that happened there, somebody made a mistake, mistakes happen, you make mistakes, I make mistakes, you admit it, you accept it, you investigate, you find out what happened, and you move on.

Speaker 3 But there are a lot of people doing exactly what you said. But what about this? What about Hillary Clinton?

Speaker 1 Well, she's not in fucking power. We're not talking about Hillary Clinton.
We're not talking about Huma and the laptop. We're talking about what just happened.

Speaker 1 But here's what I was going back to earlier. Why don't they have their own own encrypted app?

Speaker 1 Why, how you spent so much fucking money on all kinds of shit? How much does it cost to make an encrypted app? It can't be that much.

Speaker 3 If the government's doing about a trillion, mate, but it's

Speaker 1 wouldn't you think you would want an app that all

Speaker 1 you know how uh Eric Prince has that uh that unplugged phone you know that

Speaker 1 I don't know anything about it but I do know that he has his own app on the phone that's an encrypted app an unplugged encrypted app so you would like how many people have that fucking thing?

Speaker 1 You know, like, if you're going to contact someone who has it, like, it would, it should be something like that, but even more classified. Like, you should have like a website.

Speaker 1 You'd probably have to do it on an Android phone because you'd have to download it through a third party or get some sort of a backdoor deal with Apple where they allow you to put it on the App Store where only you could get into it with a password or something.

Speaker 1 But how do you not have that? It just seems insane. You're using Signal.
I use Signal. How the fuck are you using Signal? That's crazy.
Yeah. You should have your own shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it just becomes about ego, man. It's like, this is my team.
We are going to win at all costs.

Speaker 2 And then once you start thinking that, you just go, well, if this person is challenging me, it doesn't matter how legitimate the challenge is, actually. If I go and destroy them through whatever,

Speaker 2 even if it's an underhand means, my team still wins. That's okay.

Speaker 1 But it's bad for everybody who's just like reluctantly on your team because they think the other team sucks more.

Speaker 1 Now you're like, well, you guys are sucking close to them now.

Speaker 1 Don't do that. And that will happen over the next four years, I think.
100%. To be

Speaker 1 human beings. And it's also, again, all these people are doing their job for the first time.
You know, Cash Patel just started running the FBI. Yeah.
Just started. Just started on the job.
Like, what?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 has security that's not FBI security because he doesn't trust the FBI security, so he gets his own security. What? Like, imagine that hostile environment.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And look, I want all these people to crush. I want them all to be incredibly successful at what they do in your country and in our country.
That's interesting.

Speaker 3 Because it makes our country better, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, of course you do.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's what.
Look, if you,

Speaker 2 the vast majority of people, when it boils down to it, they don't care about team left, they don't care about team right. They just want a better country.
I want a better America.

Speaker 2 I want to come to America and go, this is the greatest country in the world. And I want to come to Britain and go, this is the greatest country in the world.

Speaker 2 I mean, we'd never say that because we're British, but

Speaker 2 I mean, if someone said that in Britain, you're like, dude, you're mentally ill.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 1 Generes just said it.

Speaker 3 Britain's the greatest country in the world.

Speaker 1 I don't know. She just moved there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, give her a couple of years.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and she'll soon get disavowed of that.

Speaker 1 I think she's already in a squabble with her neighbors.

Speaker 1 She was doing some construction.

Speaker 1 It was already an issue.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, there is nothing more British than that.
Someone coming around and going, have you got approval for that?

Speaker 1 We're going to need to see

Speaker 2 10 reams of 10 documents. Have you signed?

Speaker 2 That's exactly what we do.

Speaker 1 It's a whole country of homeowners associations. Yeah.

Speaker 1 everybody hates homeowners associations they always give you a hard time about your lawn or whatever the fuck it is like get out of here yeah you can't paint it that color we have guidelines yeah

Speaker 2 yeah but that's look i think i think that's what everybody here wants i want america to be incredible great a brilliant country yeah i want that for my country as well i and i'll be honest with you i always normally sided with the left because i thought that was a way of doing it but right now i don't care i just want the best people to come out and work for the country.

Speaker 2 You're going to make mistakes, you're going to fuck it up, you're going to say dumb stuff, I say dumb stuff, you're going to put in

Speaker 2 procedures that don't work. We all get that, but what I want, and what I think the vast majority of people want, is people not on team X or Team Y, but on Team Britain and Team America.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, there's that saying, you show me a young man who's not a liberal, and I'll show you. Who said that? That's Churchill.

Speaker 1 And show me an old man who's not a conservative, and I'll show you a man with no brain.

Speaker 1 I don't necessarily think you have to give up on people. Like, the idea is that at a certain point in time, you realize that

Speaker 1 too many people are too fucked up, and you have to have more conservative values because that's the only way society can function. But that's

Speaker 1 that's like kind of cynical. The idea is that you can't be like an actual, true, kind, progressive person and be successful at life deep into your 60s and 70s.
Like, of course, you can.

Speaker 1 It totally can be done. Like, there's real, genuinely kind, compassionate people out there that are intelligent and they're not weak.
There's just not that many. No.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of people that are LARPing. There's a lot of people that are pretending they're progressive, pretending they're kind, when really they're the fucking people key in Teslas.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of people out there that are just

Speaker 1 aping this position that they're in. They're faking it.

Speaker 3 I think that's one of the big fundamental debates between left and right. Thomas Sowell has a great book about this called Conflict of Visions.

Speaker 3 It's really fundamentally about what you see as the truth about human nature.

Speaker 3 The right thinks human nature is imperfect and that's what it is and you have to deal with that reality.

Speaker 3 Some people are going to be criminals, some people are going to be drug addicts, some blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the left, particularly at the extreme ends, thinks in a utopian way.

Speaker 3 Everything is changeable. Everything is perfectible.
Everybody can be improved.

Speaker 1 Anybody become a woman.

Speaker 3 Anybody can become a woman.

Speaker 3 And that's where you get, like,

Speaker 3 you know, the homelessness problem in America. Partly is about that.
It's about the idea, well, we'll shut down these terrible, and they were terrible mental institutions, right?

Speaker 3 And then we give people freedom because anybody can handle freedom, right? Freedom is great in and of itself. It's wonderful.

Speaker 3 And then you leave mentally ill people and drug-addicted people on the streets where they have a horrible life.

Speaker 3 And that's really the big difference. Whereas the right, obviously, you know, it really believes in this idea that human nature is

Speaker 3 corrupted, I suppose.

Speaker 3 And you have to put things in place to manage that. And both those extremes can go in the wrong direction.
And that's why you need a balance between the two.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can't have like one party dominate. You know, and you just I think that's the good thing about the Republicans getting into office is it forces Democrats to be better.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a good thing. I mean, I would love for some like reasonable reasonable Democrat to come along that I can get behind.
It'd make a lot of sense. It'd be great.
It'd be great if some people

Speaker 1 just come to the center.

Speaker 1 Let's just be reasonable about stuff.

Speaker 1 Like this idea that you have to become a conservative as you get older. Like, why? Who says so? Why?

Speaker 2 You know, there are moments, the homelessness situation in this country is so crazy, but there's moments where

Speaker 2 it's just really funny. We were walking down the street in D.C., and there was this lady, and she was obviously very mentally unwell.

Speaker 2 She looked at me, and then she went, Ashkenazi, and then said something, which was a clearly anti-Semitic slur.

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 2 And I was like, whoa. And then looked at Constantine and went, biracial bitch.

Speaker 3 That's what I am.

Speaker 1 Whoa. Yeah.
And what did you guys do to cause this?

Speaker 3 Nothing. We're just walking down the street.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 3 See, we walk around a lot in America, which I think a lot of people, most people drive here. So we encounter a lot of that.

Speaker 3 And in every major city that we've been to, there is a hell of a lot of people who are just mentally ill, man. That's what they are.
And they need help. Yeah.

Speaker 3 They don't need to be there with a fucking shopping cart on the street with all their belongings out of their brains.

Speaker 1 I think we need to scoop them up, put them in the factories, get them to work, do what China does.

Speaker 1 They're smart.

Speaker 1 Imagine if that was my real solution.

Speaker 1 I mean, China does do that, right? Like, you don't see homeless people on the street in China. They don't tolerate any of that shit.
Which is, you would go there, you go, oh, it's better here.

Speaker 1 But okay, at what cost? Exactly. Right? Like, what do you do with San Francisco? When it gets that bad, what do you do?

Speaker 3 You invite Xi Jinping over, they clean the streets right up, right?

Speaker 1 Immediately. Immediately.
And the best thing was how Newsom described is like, well, when your friends come to visit, you clean up the house.

Speaker 1 Like, how about you just keep your house clean, you fucking psycho? What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 He's doing an interesting pivot at the moment, isn't he?

Speaker 1 Gavin Newsome.

Speaker 1 300 million people in the country home to 1.4 billion Chinese are homeless. What?

Speaker 1 What? No.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no. There's only a billion people plus in China.

Speaker 1 300 million. Oh,

Speaker 1 oh, oh, oh. I missed the first part that you didn't highlight it.
So it's estimated that 300 million people are homeless. What? Okay.
Yeah. That's crazy.
In the whole country?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I remember when I went to the house.

Speaker 1 That's called camping in China though.

Speaker 3 Let's not emulate them then.

Speaker 1 Are they counting nomads? Are they counting people that live in yurts?

Speaker 1 That's interesting.

Speaker 3 Yurt seems like a house.

Speaker 1 Kind of cloth house. Those are Mongols, they hated houses.

Speaker 1 They ruled over the people who lived in felt tents.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 300 million homeless people.

Speaker 2 Have you been to China, Joe?

Speaker 1 Wow, look at that. No.
What are you crazy?

Speaker 1 Not going there. Fuck that.

Speaker 2 It's an interesting country.

Speaker 1 I went there.

Speaker 2 Do you know, like,

Speaker 2 I went there in 2006 in Beijing, and the pollution was so bad, you couldn't really see the sun at midday. Wow.
The sun was like an orange lozenge in the sky.

Speaker 1 So that's an example of what we were talking about before. Yeah.
You know, like you're, you're dying younger if you live there, for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
100%.

Speaker 1 That's probably like smoking packs of cigarettes. Yeah.
Packs, packs, packs. Yeah.
For everybody. Everybody, your little baby, smoking packs of cigarettes.

Speaker 2 And it's so interesting when you go there as well. Like, I remember we were driving down the road and China is just this kind of the roads is that everybody cuts each other up.

Speaker 2 Everybody's trying to get one up on the other one. It's complete chaos.
Like you're driving down.

Speaker 2 Someone will literally cut in front of you the person will cut in front of them cut in front of them and that's how it is until the secret police drive by in their cars and they make this sound they're going

Speaker 2 and then everybody falls into line drives perfectly the secret police car just glides through everybody's on their best behavior then the car goes and everyone's back to going

Speaker 2 And you're like, that is fascinating.

Speaker 1 That's how you get control over people. That's what I'm saying.
Digital currency, social credit score. Let's get it together.

Speaker 1 This is a 50-lane holiday traffic jam in China. Oh

Speaker 1 my

Speaker 1 God. I have so much anxiety right now.

Speaker 2 Does that remind you of L.A., Joe?

Speaker 1 Look, they're all going through a checkpoint.

Speaker 1 They have to all go through a checkpoint. That's what the traffic jam's about.
Look how they went through the checkpoint.

Speaker 3 12, 12,

Speaker 1 12, day-long traffic jam. But did you see how they go through the checkpoint and then they're flying through?

Speaker 1 See, they all go through this.

Speaker 3 I'm guessing it's a toll road, right?

Speaker 1 Yes, it's a toll station.

Speaker 1 Three hours to pass through the toll stations, 50 lanes passing through the toll stations.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, imagine you're in a Tesla and you see your battery life going down. You're like, oh my god, I'm so fucked.
I'm so fucked. And I'm so fucked.
Look at this. Wow.
Look at this. This is insane.

Speaker 1 Insane. And then there's a bottleneck getting out.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 That's what happens. Too many people, too much control.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Japan's interesting.
You've been to Japan?

Speaker 1 I have. Yeah.
Yeah, but briefly. I was just there for UFC.
Ah, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. You feel like, if you want to go somewhere and you want to feel like an uncultured, uneducated barbarian, Japan's a great place.

Speaker 1 They sent me up to my room to go put on a long-sleeve shirt to hit the gym.

Speaker 3 Tattoos. Tattoos.

Speaker 1 You can't can't have exposed tattoos.

Speaker 1 I was working out with tattoos, and they told me, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 Are your tattoos Yakuza tattoos?

Speaker 1 No, but this one is Miyamoto Musa. This episode is brought to you by Manscape.
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Speaker 1 Yeah. Who's that? The Book of Five Rings, the samurai that killed 60 men in unarmed combat and wrote a book on strategy.
You never read The Book of Five Rings? Wow.

Speaker 1 It's one of the great philosophy books of all time because it's by this guy that was one of the greatest samurais ever, and he was a Ronin.

Speaker 1 So he was like traveling the earth, having duels with people and killed 62 men in one-on-one duels and wrote about the importance of balance.

Speaker 1 He's like, to be a great samurai, you have to be a great artist. You have to be great at calligraphy.
You have to be a poet.

Speaker 1 You have to, like, everything you do, you have to do to the best of your ability.

Speaker 1 You can have no holes in your game as a human being in order to survive and keep your shit together and one-on-one sword fighting.

Speaker 1 He got to the point where he was so bored killing people that he started killing people with oars.

Speaker 1 So he would carve an oar and like take down down the flat part and just make it a pole and they would have a sword and he would fight them with an oar and beat them to death with the oar

Speaker 1 like this big old fucking pole and they have a sword and he's fucking them up because he's he's bored killing people with swords he just wants to bludgeon someone with a sword to death instead of

Speaker 1 it's like he would show up hours late so they'd be shitting their pants because they knew they were supposed to duel Musashi at like 8 a.m. And he'd show up around noon.

Speaker 3 With an oar.

Speaker 1 And they'd be a fucking nervous wreck. Because he knew he wasn't going to sword fight until noon.
So he's probably chilling on his boat, relaxing. And they're like, I'll get it down there.

Speaker 1 So he rows down there, pulls out one of his fucking carved oars, and beats you to death.

Speaker 3 Well, Joe, if the Prime Minister of Britain bans oars, it's your fault, mate.

Speaker 1 But his book is amazing. So I don't know if I think it's any tattoo where I got sent up to my room.
I don't think you can have exposed tattoos in this fine establishment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's the, because I've got Japanese-style tattoos. I think it's

Speaker 2 the association between tattoos and yakuzas.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, you know, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of yakuzas have musashi tattoos.
Yeah. But it's obviously I'm not in the yakuza.
But I do know a guy who had a long relationship with them,

Speaker 1 Ensign Inue,

Speaker 1 who was an elite UFC fighter back in the day.

Speaker 1 And he lives in Japan, and he's had like a bunch of run-ins with Yakuzas.

Speaker 3 Has he still got his fingers?

Speaker 1 He does.

Speaker 1 He's managed to keep his fingers. I don't think he's a part of them.
I think they just like respect him. He's like a famous MMA pioneer fighter.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You s that's a special type of person who has a run-in with a yakuza.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, if you're living in that part of the world, I'm sure that's just if you're in their areas, you're dealing with them, you know? I mean, that's just that's how it it's run over there.

Speaker 1 It's like when the Italians used to run

Speaker 1 parts of New York City. That's just how it is.
Until the

Speaker 1 Giuliani administration infiltrated

Speaker 1 and the FBI infiltrated the mob and they've essentially taken the teeth out of the Italian mob. But that was Vegas.
The mob ran Vegas.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 One of the things I find fascinating about the Yakuza when I read about them is their honor code.

Speaker 2 They had very strict honor codes, didn't they? Yeah. So they never messed with old people.
If someone was old,

Speaker 2 I may be wrong about this, but they just wouldn't get involved because they have a reverence for old people. I think women as well were seen as kind of off-limits and children.

Speaker 2 Everyone else, like, if you're not obeying or following, that's fair game.

Speaker 1 And that weird, you got rules and how you do evil shit.

Speaker 1 I don't do evil shit to any young folks.

Speaker 1 I stop my evil shit.

Speaker 1 When I, you know, anything below 16, fuck that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But, you know, that's

Speaker 3 controlled evil.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't shoot any kids anymore.
I did that early in my career. I'm past that.
You know, I've moved on. Got it out of my system.
I don't open mic nights anymore.

Speaker 1 I don't shoot kids. I'm done.
I have a hitman with a conscience.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 it's interesting, but how they even have morality. Like, I've seen a lot of interviews with old gangsters, particularly from

Speaker 2 the Craze era. Oh, yeah.
You know, and there was one guy who's dead now. He's called Mad Frankie Fraser.

Speaker 1 Imagine running into Mad Frankie in a pub. Mad Frankie.
It's shit. It's Mad Frankie.
Fuck. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And this guy was a really short guy. And I saw him interviewed on, and

Speaker 2 I might even be on YouTube where... And he told a story and he was like, you know, I was going for a walk along Wimbledon Common and I saw the governor of Wandsworth Prison where I was.

Speaker 2 for many years and he goes and I didn't like him. So what I did was

Speaker 2 I went and got my mate and he got a rope and we got him and we started to hang him. But the problem is, is we were hanging him and I couldn't reach the second branch because I'm only a little fellow.

Speaker 2 So we couldn't hang him properly. And everybody was laughing about it and just going, yeah, this is so funny because he was this charming, funny little guy.

Speaker 2 And I remember as a kid watching it, watching the audience laughing, going, like, that ain't funny, man.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 You know, and then you go, and then he went, but you've got to understand. You've got to understand.

Speaker 2 I didn't do it to nice, ordinary people. I only did it to rascals.

Speaker 2 And for him, that was his honor code.

Speaker 1 Rascals. Imagine that.

Speaker 1 You rascal. You know, imagine that's the term you use for a guy you had to hang.
A rascal.

Speaker 3 He was a rascal. Had to hang him.

Speaker 1 Rascal. You silly rascal.
Yeah. Jesus Christ.
Well, the world was a harder place back then. You know?

Speaker 1 I mean, that's not that long ago. I mean, if you were in the 1950s in Vegas and you fucked up, you found yourself in the middle of that lake that they keep finding bodies in.

Speaker 1 You know, they just discovered some guy from the 1970s that's been missing forever. Found him in a fucking barrel at the bottom of the Lake Mead.

Speaker 1 There's a p how many bodies have they found in Lake Mead so far?

Speaker 1 So as it drains, as it, you know, because they're experiencing significant drought, the more it drains, the more bodies they keep finding. They find like old hands broken up and shit.

Speaker 1 They've been killing people out there forever. And that's just the lake.
That's lazy people that don't like to dig holes.

Speaker 1 That whole desert is just filled with holes. There's probably thousands of people buried out there.

Speaker 1 Some guy who fucking didn't pay his debt, some guy who talked too much to the press, some guy who did this, some guy who fucked this guy's wife.

Speaker 1 Since May

Speaker 1 2022, four sets of human remains have been located at Lake Mead. Here's what we know about those instances.

Speaker 1 There's the body. Yeah, so they found that body in a barrel.

Speaker 1 crazy. I think that one was from the 70s.

Speaker 1 Yeah, mid, yeah, mid to late 70s. Victim's shoes and clothes were sold at Kmart in the mid to late 1970s.
Wow,

Speaker 1 that's wild.

Speaker 3 And six days later, they found somebody else.

Speaker 1 Imagine if you could just watch a time-lapse of them dropping that body off in the water and then speeding up all the years.

Speaker 1 And then eventually the water pulls back and the barrel and the lady walking her dogs like what the fuck?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Have you ever seen Casino?

Speaker 1 Yes. Oh man.
Have you seen Casino?

Speaker 1 Great fucking movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and it talks about all of this. Oh yeah.
I remember

Speaker 2 I was flying to Austin actually and I just was like, I haven't seen this movie in ages. Let's put it on.

Speaker 2 And you know, like most movies, when you watch it on a plane, you're kind of distracted. You start looking at your phone, you start mucking about whatever.
You're not really...

Speaker 2 Even if it was on this tiny little screen, it was like zoomed straight in.

Speaker 2 and it talked about all of this stuff and I've forgotten what a great movie it was you know immediately you just saw and again the honor code came out and the way they disposed of people were like yeah we're gonna have to wait you motherfucker

Speaker 1 Joe Beggie

Speaker 1 oh my god when they kill those guys at the end like oh my god with the baseball bats oh my gosh that was no standard standard shit in Vegas you know I mean the mob ran it their way and their way is you know they're a bunch of fucking psychopaths.

Speaker 1 And people still, to this day, like, the Vegas was better when the mob ran it.

Speaker 1 For you, bitch. Because you survived, because you didn't lose at blackjack.
Here it is.

Speaker 2 Good fellas. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, and good fellas that killed him with the baseball bats.

Speaker 2 Good fellas.

Speaker 3 So what am I thinking of with casino?

Speaker 1 No, no, no, this is the same. No, that's in casino.
No, that is in casino.

Speaker 1 Oh, the same guy, Billy Bats, in casino. That's right.
Yeah, this is.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Look, the blur of the fucking baseball bat moving towards his head.
Yikes. Yikes.
Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 You motherfucker.

Speaker 1 You motherfucker.

Speaker 3 So how much of that is still going on, Joe? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I wish I knew. I mean, there's got to be some of it, right? Right.
There's got to be some organized crime. It's not like they completely went away.
But I think it's just harder these days.

Speaker 1 And I think it's being infiltrated by Russians and Chinese. And I think they have a little bit...

Speaker 1 Look, if they don't...

Speaker 1 If they're speaking Russian, unless you speak Russian, you don't even know what the fuck they're saying. You know, they can talk right in front of you.

Speaker 1 You know, and whenever there's money to be made, there's going to be people making it. If there's people buying drugs, there's people selling it.

Speaker 1 If there's people buying guns, there's people selling it. And then you got to organize crime.
That's just a fact. And if you make things illegal, illegal people are going to sell those things.

Speaker 1 And that's what prohibition did to alcohol in this country. And it propped up al Capone and it made the Kennedys rich, allegedly.
Some people say not.

Speaker 1 It made Moonshiners started NASCAR. That's what NASCAR comes from.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, it's

Speaker 2 because I used to teach in the east end of London, and there's still legends about Ronnie and Reggie Cray.

Speaker 2 And the one thing that they always used to say about Ronnie and Reggie, they'd go, yeah, yeah, yeah, they were bad people, but they were nice to their mum.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's sweet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Like a good psychopathic serial killer who's nice to his mum. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they were just like, yeah, but mate, you were not his mum. Do you know what I mean? And if you pissed them off, this is what would happen.
And here's the wild thing, Joe.

Speaker 2 I taught two boys at this school in East London. Can you guess what their names were? Two brothers.

Speaker 1 Tell me.

Speaker 2 Ronnie and Reggie.

Speaker 3 Wow. Somebody actually named their kids.

Speaker 1 Somebody named their kids the craze names. Yeah.
So in America, that's normal. Oh, it's just Ronnie and Reggie.
But in your country, it's like Adolph and

Speaker 1 Joseph.

Speaker 1 But Joseph is my name.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 God damn, that's a wild family, I bet. Like, you can't name your kid Adolph anymore.
It's basically over.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're always a good good name. No one's trying that.
We actually.

Speaker 3 We actually, when we used to do this comedy show on our channel during the pandemic, there was a guy in Africa who was called Adolph.

Speaker 1 Was it spelled different? No.

Speaker 3 No. No, no, no.
It was a tribute act.

Speaker 3 Whoa. Yeah, they named him after Hitler.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. Yeah.
Yeah. There's certain names that are over.
It's over. Yeah.
That one's one of them. That guy killed the name and the mustache.
The shit's done.

Speaker 2 You know, I remember with this kid, Ronnie, and they were just saying to him, people were talking, they were like, you know what? Ronnie's not doing well at school at the moment.

Speaker 2 I'm like, yeah, I fucking wonder why.

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 He's named after one of the most notorious gangsters in British history.

Speaker 1 Yeah, probably not a stable family life.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I doubt he's got good role models.
You know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's weird when the hit men have families and they're real kind to their daughter and shit. Like that Ted Kal, what's his, no, what's the guy's name that was the Iceman?

Speaker 2 Oh, that movie was incredible. Did you you watch a movie?

Speaker 1 What is it? What was his name?

Speaker 1 I want to say Kalinsky, but that's not. You're close.
It's Kuklinski or something. Kuklinski, that's right, that's right.
Oh, that guy was... That guy has antifreeze in his veins.
It's terrifying.

Speaker 1 Listening to him describe the different murders and how he did it and how he got started as a hitman.

Speaker 2 You know, this is, I'm not sure if I should, anyway. A friend of a friend,

Speaker 2 no, she's not. She's a friend of mine.
She was saying that she grew up in East London. London.

Speaker 2 She said, and I believed her because the story was so outlandish, that she knew a guy who basically used to, he was a hitman, used to contract killing.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 But he loved animals.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 Really passionate about animals.

Speaker 1 Squirrels? Feed squirrels with peanuts?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no. He was big on conservation joke.

Speaker 2 So six months of the year, he would... do contract killings in London.
And the other six months, he would use that money to go and fund to live in Africa where he he would kill poachers.

Speaker 1 It's like a Guy Ritchie movie. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was like, really? She was like, yeah, yeah. He's just passionate about wildlife and conservation.

Speaker 1 That's crazy.

Speaker 1 They'd go kill poachers.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's what he did.

Speaker 1 Maybe that's just an excuse to kill people and feel like you're being a good person.

Speaker 3 Yeah. That's very British, though.
British people love pets a lot more than they love people, in my experience.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 If you hurt an animal in Britain, you're like a fucking pedophile.

Speaker 1 Why is Britain that way? Like, what is...

Speaker 3 I don't know, Frances. Francis.
You tell me.

Speaker 1 There's a lack of hunting culture. I think that's part of it.

Speaker 2 Well, we used to have a big hunting culture.

Speaker 1 There are hunting cultures. Right, but not in comparison to America.
You guys like pheasant hunt and shit. Like, you don't have like a lot.
You have roe deer. You don't have a lot of big game.
No.

Speaker 1 And there's not a high percentage of hunters. And then fox hunting, which gets like this gross,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you're going to kill a fox with a horse, you're going to chase him down. Like, that's a gross view generally of the public.
Like, you bring up fox hunting, most people are like, oh, it's disgusting.

Speaker 3 It's also got a class thing as well. Fox hunting is seen as a very privileged thing to do because not everyone has a horse, you know.
Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And a team of dogs and whatever else.

Speaker 1 Are cute. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You've never heard them shag outside your bedroom window at three in the morning.

Speaker 1 I heard the other day. I have one in my neighborhood.

Speaker 2 What, you've got a fox in your neighborhood?

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah.
We've got video of him screaming in my yard. Ah!

Speaker 1 Yeah, he hangs out. He's near my chicken coop, that fucker.
But he's really cute. As long as he doesn't kill any of those chickens, I think he's cute.

Speaker 3 Why wouldn't he kill any of those chickens?

Speaker 1 He hasn't yet.

Speaker 1 Because Joe's well protected.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we let them out, but people are watching them when they're out. Make sure that, you know, we've had a dog climb in through the fence and get one of them.
A little neighbor's dog.

Speaker 2 Did Marshall not defend them?

Speaker 1 No. Marshall didn't know.
He was sleeping.

Speaker 1 If you don't have a golden retriever, golden retrievers have plenty of energy. They love to play, but they also are fine with chilling.

Speaker 1 And that dog just likes to just lay down and just take a little nap. He'll lay down like half the fucking day.
He'll get up as soon as you want to do something. Like, come on, man, let's go play.

Speaker 1 Like, he was more than happy. Like, let's go.
Let's go. He gets excited.
But then it's back to napping. He was napping while his chickens were getting fucked up.

Speaker 2 Do you know who would have defended their owner?

Speaker 1 Carl. Yeah, Carl would have.
Carl's a little psychopath. Yeah.
I've never seen an animal with a desire to bite something like Carl's. Yeah.
It's nuts.

Speaker 1 When he sees Marshall, he just like, like a bullet, just runs full speed at him and launches himself to the air to bite Marshall. Marshall's like,

Speaker 1 they just wrestle around and run in circles.

Speaker 2 It's fucking hilarious. Yeah, man.
There's something about that small dog energy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what's crazy is they used to be wolves. You know, they all used to be wolves.
And we're

Speaker 1 a little bit cutie face. Look at these little cuties.

Speaker 3 Oh, they're gray. They're not red.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're red. They're so adorable.

Speaker 1 They're so adorable. And they make that weird.

Speaker 1 You You ever heard their sound? You've heard it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I've been kept up many a night for hearing animals having far better sex than I could ever dream of.

Speaker 1 I'm used to coyotes, and we have those in my neighborhood, too. But in L.A., coyotes were a real problem.
They killed eight of my chickens, nine of my chickens, whatever it was.

Speaker 1 They're horrible, but they're also super necessary because otherwise you'd have a... insane rodent problem.

Speaker 1 Like they're the cleanup crew for anything that's caught slipping. You want to get rid of the rabbits?

Speaker 1 You have too many rodents? You have too many rats? Like, send in the fucking coyotes. So they're the cleanup crew.
They're really good, but they also eat your dogs.

Speaker 1 They'll eat your chickens, eat your cats.

Speaker 1 They eat people's dogs constantly. I know many people whose dogs got eaten by coyotes.

Speaker 2 That's the thing, actually, I love about America is your wildlife. It's wild.
It's wild. I was with Redband doing his gig, The Secret Show, and he showed me footage from his garden.

Speaker 2 They had a mountain lion, a cougar coming. No, it wasn't a cougar, it was a wildcat.

Speaker 1 Bobcat? Bobcat.

Speaker 2 That was it. A bobcat came into his garden.
This thing is like a small puma, and it had its cubs with it.

Speaker 1 It was incredible. Yeah, they're cute.

Speaker 1 It's wild. Yeah.
And Texas is, you've got a bunch of like weird stuff that people bring in here, too.

Speaker 1 You know, like what? Well, there's more Texas. Like, Texas has more tigers in captivity in private collections than all of the wild of earth.

Speaker 1 Just Texas.

Speaker 1 Do you know, Francis, we forget something.

Speaker 3 This country is fucking wild.

Speaker 1 This country is crazy. There's more people with tigers in their fucking backyards in Texas than there are in the wild of Earth.

Speaker 3 That is fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's real. That's a fact.
And then there's all sorts of other shit that you can have here, too. Like exotic animals from Africa.

Speaker 1 There's animals that are endangered in the land that they're from, but you can hunt them here.

Speaker 2 You know, my dad,

Speaker 2 my dad in the 70s used to work for the council in East London, like local government, and he was saying that there was a guy who owned a scrapyard and was so pissed that people were stealing scrap, he bought on the black line, on the black market a lion to guard his scrapyard.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's a good move.

Speaker 2 And just chained it up.

Speaker 3 He bought a lion on the black market.

Speaker 1 That does not sound true to me, mate. I'm going to fuck tick that shit.

Speaker 1 You can have a lion here, too? You just have to have a permit.

Speaker 1 Make sure your lock's good. You got a good lock for the lion.
Yes, sir. It's a master lock made in America.
Fuck it.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Well, have a good one.

Speaker 1 Can you imagine

Speaker 2 jumping over

Speaker 2 into someone's yard because you want to steal something and you're confronted by a lion?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Imagine.
Imagine if you're one of those poor migrants that's wandering through Texas and you accidentally hop the wrong fence and you go into the lion

Speaker 1 encampment or whatever the fuck they have.

Speaker 1 I mean, I would imagine they have ceilings on these places, hopefully, which is like the San Francisco story.

Speaker 1 You know, where those kids were throwing pine cones at the tiger and the tiger jumped over the fucking fence because they didn't realize that the fence was only like 12 feet high and a tiger can jump 14 feet high.

Speaker 1 Got out and killed these kids. Killed one kid.

Speaker 1 I don't think it actually killed the kid that was throwing the pine cone.

Speaker 1 I think it killed his friend or something like that so I forget exactly what the story was but you'd never stand around when someone's doing stupid shit huh well how about put a roof how about put a roof over where you have the monster how about if the monster can jump make sure that there's a roof yeah also don't wind up the monster yeah don't take the piss but if you're one of those uh migrants that wanders through the desert you know and you make it across the river and you don't know exactly where you're going you don't have a good sense of direction you wind up on some guy's property is that still going on or has that been stopped now?

Speaker 1 Well, it's been stopped. I wouldn't say it's been stopped.
I think it's been radically

Speaker 1 diminished.

Speaker 1 I think what is the numbers of how many people are getting through now? It was from thousands to less than 100 a day.

Speaker 1 Maybe a little bit more than that. It's hard to know, really, right? Because

Speaker 1 they're guessing. These are the people that didn't get caught.
So how do you know how many there are?

Speaker 1 But they do know that there's not this giant line of people that just are assuming they can get in and walk through.

Speaker 1 And they they were just letting them do that which is there's no reasonable argument why that makes any sense there's no reason no matter how kind you are and compassionate and how much you think these people from a third world country deserve the american dream that's great but let's find out if they're murderers let's find out if they're gang members let's find out if they're hitmen for the cartel like what are you we're just letting everything open why why would you do that There's no rational explanation for that other than you've got some sort of nefarious nefarious plan.

Speaker 1 If you're forcing that and trying to stop the enforcement of that, you must have some sort of nefarious plan because it can't be good to let more criminals into the country. It can't be good.

Speaker 1 And inevitably, if you have an open border, a percentage of them are going to be criminals, especially if they're coming from crime-infested parts of the world. It's a high likelihood.

Speaker 3 Well, we actually just had a report in the UK which shows that for a long time people were saying actually these people commit crime at a lower level.

Speaker 1 Uh-uh. Who said that? Why would they say that?

Speaker 3 Oh, people say that all the time when they defend illegal immigration.

Speaker 1 It's such a fucking bullshit argument. It's such a bullshit argument.
Because yeah, a lot of them I bet don't.

Speaker 1 94% fewer illegal border crossings detected from February 25th versus February 2024. Yeah.
Yeah, they kind of like count them, I guess, by when they actually bust them.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
That's a big number. 94% is good.
So there's still people coming through. Yeah.
And there's probably still people coming through that are criminals. Yeah.
You know, but the thing is, like

Speaker 1 you got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting like

Speaker 1 lassoed up and deported and sent to like

Speaker 1 El Salvador prisons. Like that kind of shit.
Because I'm, I read some story, was it Glenn Greenwald? Yeah, yeah. The gay barber guy.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. It's scary, man.
Is that true?

Speaker 1 Is that story accurate? I don't think we know. Can you explain the story for people that don't know what it is?

Speaker 3 Well, from what I read, I think it was in Time magazine, Jamie, if you can pull it up and maybe we can get it accurate.

Speaker 3 but basically with a bunch of these trend or agua guys allegedly they got one guy who at least one guy who wasn't a criminal uh who was just a gay barber who i think according to the story came here legally he was here legally that's what they said don't know should you have a green card i don't know what the details are maybe jamie can find it no criminal record from what it said in that story now this is the problem right because the mainstream media has been putting out so much shit that i don't know what to believe anymore right i feel the same way

Speaker 3 And so it's difficult, but it's something that we actually brought up in one of our conversations. We interviewed the guy from the Heritage Foundation.
We brought this up.

Speaker 3 Because I think we talked about this with Doge as well. When you do things quickly and you do things aggressively, that's how you get shit done.
But that's also when mistakes get made.

Speaker 3 And I think a human being being plucked out of nowhere. and ending up in a country he's never been in, in a maximum security prison with gang members, seems like a bad thing to happen to me.

Speaker 3 It's horrific.

Speaker 1 It's horrific.

Speaker 3 I don't think that that should be controversial.

Speaker 1 No, that's not controversial at all. And this is the thing, you know, measured twice, cut once.

Speaker 1 This is the, like, this is kind of crazy that that could be possible. That's horrific.
And that's, again, that's bad for the cause. Like, the cause is let's get the gang members out.
Everybody agrees.

Speaker 1 But let's not innocent gay hairdressers get lumped up with the gangs and then, like, how long before that guy can get out? Like, can we figure out how to get him out?

Speaker 1 Is there any plan in place to alert the authorities that they've made a horrible mistake and correct it?

Speaker 3 Aaron Ross Powell, well, if you think about it from a government perspective, and this is where I think it gets quite sinister, is once you've done that, the incentive structure is never going to be to admit that and deal with it.

Speaker 3 The incentive structure is to say nothing, to cover it up, to pretend it didn't happen.

Speaker 1 That is horrible.

Speaker 3 So someone ends up in a black hole. But we've seen it.

Speaker 3 We've seen it in every country, including in America.

Speaker 1 But that's the thing about politics, right? Never admit your fault. Never admit you're wrong.
It's so dumb.

Speaker 1 And this is the thing we're seeing with the signal thing, and this is the thing we're seeing with this.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's been brought to their attention. I mean, I would assume someone's alerted them to the fact that they might have rounded up this

Speaker 1 just random hairdresser and accused him of being a gang member.

Speaker 3 Did you find a story, Jamie?

Speaker 1 But Time Magazine. The thing is, it's like, what steps can be taken?

Speaker 1 Does the prison know now?

Speaker 1 Can they talk to that guy? Can they pull him out of there?

Speaker 2 Well, this is it.

Speaker 2 It's a maximum security prison. So the answer, I think, is we don't know at this moment.

Speaker 1 But what is his life like in there, man? I mean,

Speaker 1 it's horrific.

Speaker 2 This is also

Speaker 2 a large part of why this happened is because of illegal immigration. So you had this.
And look, I'm half Venezuelan. You had Trende Aragua, which causes chaos in Venezuela.

Speaker 2 It comes to the U.S., it causes horrendous amounts of chaos in the U.S. And that's awful.

Speaker 2 But also as well, is in ordinary, decent, hard-working Venezuelans who all they want to do, their entire country has gone to shit, who have come here legally, they just want to work, they want to get ahead, they have jobs, they just have got families, they're trying to make ends meet, and all of a sudden all you hear is Venezuelan does this, Venezuelan does that, and you're like, oh my God, man.

Speaker 2 You know, it tars all of us with that brush.

Speaker 2 I was walking in New York and I saw this group of this Venezuelan family and they were there begging for money and for whatever else.

Speaker 2 And maybe it just hits harder because, you know, they're from where I'm from or where my mum's from. And you just go, it just tarnishes all of us with the same brush.

Speaker 2 When the reality is, like we were saying before, most of them are just good, decent, hard-working people.

Speaker 2 But because you don't have checks and balances in place, because you're not letting people, you're not vetting people, you're getting the worst of society.

Speaker 2 And the worst of society gives everybody else a bad name.

Speaker 1 Gives everybody a bad name, but also

Speaker 1 you have to wonder why that's being tolerated. Is that being done on purpose? Do you want more crime and more civil unrest? Is this part of your goal? Why else would you do this?

Speaker 1 Why do you want to disrupt society in this way and allow this to take place? Allow the possibility of some sort of a gang attack or anything horrible to happen. What is this, Janie? Oh, this is it?

Speaker 1 There's one in Forbes as well, Jenny. This is from Time magazine.

Speaker 1 A photojournalist was on hand in El Salvador as prison guards beat a man who is likely to be Andy, a gay Venezuelan barber, makeup artist who is seemingly falsely accused of being a gang member and renditioned by the Trump administration with literally no due process.

Speaker 1 So do they have a photograph that looks like this guy?

Speaker 1 A young man sobbed when a guard pushed him to the floor. He said, I'm not a gang member.
I'm gay. I'm a barber.
I believed him.

Speaker 1 He began to whimper as his head was roughly shaved, folding his hands in prayer as his hair fell. He asked for his mother and cried as he was slapped again.
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 I sent you the Forbes story, John. You're funny if you can forward it to Jamie.
Maybe he can pull it up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, sure.

Speaker 1 Fuck, man. Yeah.
I don't know. Did Glenn Greenwald write it for sure? Because that's the priority.

Speaker 3 Glenn commented on it.

Speaker 1 But there is a Forbes story that I sent.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's just, you know,

Speaker 2 it's awful that, you know, because you put yourself in that person's shoes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And

Speaker 2 what's terrifying about that is that you think about what that poor guy is going through. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, if this story is real, what that guy is going through, that is literally the stuff of nightmares.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's literally the stuff of nightmares. You have no recourse to any type of justice.

Speaker 2 There's no due process. You get rounded up.
You then get kicked out of the country. You're in a maximum security prison with some of the most vicious gang members.

Speaker 1 What to know about Andrew, 31-year-old makeup artist, falsely deported to El Salvador prison, Lawyer says,

Speaker 1 immigration attorney,

Speaker 1 say a gay Venezuelan makeup artist seeking asylum in the U.S.

Speaker 1 was wrongly detained as a gang member and deported to El Salvador, a case becoming a flashpoint in the debate over the Trump administration's deportation of hundreds of migrants to a notoriously inhumane El Salvador megaprison.

Speaker 1 Man.

Speaker 1 So again, this is, it's hard to know.

Speaker 3 It's hard to know.

Speaker 1 What's real and what's not real, but if it is real, this is fucking horrible.

Speaker 3 but if you think about it Joe like I say if you're rounding up hundreds of people mistakes are gonna get made because everyone's human

Speaker 3 and you then have to have a system I think that allows you to amend and make adjustments for that yeah absolutely and it can't be bury your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen no yeah and this is the trouble with government the incentive structure is all wrong like to admit that is now embarrassing

Speaker 1 that's crazy right

Speaker 3 and it's scary but we have the same problem in the uk in terms of the illegal immigration and if we ever get a government that's going to deal with that, we're also going to have to remove a lot of people who are there illegally.

Speaker 3 They shouldn't be there. A lot of them are.

Speaker 3 And, you know, like I said, we had a report that shows they're way more likely to commit sexual crimes, way more likely to commit violent crimes, way more likely to commit all sorts of crimes.

Speaker 3 We are going to have to remove them, but you have to do it in a way where there's due process and a respect for them.

Speaker 1 Are they trying to remove them in England? No. No.
At all. No.

Speaker 3 They are saying they are, but they're not removing them.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Yeah.
So the mistakes like that have to be corrected if you want reasonable people to be on board with you. Correct.
Yeah. Correct.

Speaker 1 If you want, you know, compassionate people to be on board with you, you can't deport gay hairdressers seeking asylum. That's fucking crazy.
And then throw them in an El Salvador prison.

Speaker 3 That's not even his country. Right.
You deport people back to their country. Right.

Speaker 1 It's nuts. It's just...
What was the story with the student that got arrested for writing an op-ed piece?

Speaker 3 Is that the Khalil guy?

Speaker 1 No, the woman. woman.

Speaker 2 Is that the girl from the Korean girl from

Speaker 2 Columbia University? I don't know.

Speaker 1 That's a different one.

Speaker 1 There's so many of them. There was a woman who got arrested for writing some sort of a thing.
This is a Turkish student at Tufts University. Latest Palestinian supporters swept up in U.S.
crackdown.

Speaker 1 What did she get arrested for?

Speaker 1 Have you seen this one? No.

Speaker 3 I saw it, but I haven't delved into it.

Speaker 2 Joe, sorry, could I have the lighter, please?

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure. Thank you.
There you go.

Speaker 3 She engaged in activities in support of Hamas, a foreign terrorist organization that relishes the killing of Americans.

Speaker 1 But the department did not provide evidence of that support. Right.

Speaker 1 What does that mean? I heard she wrote some piece

Speaker 1 on Israel. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I don't know what the law of that is, because she's not an American national. Right.
But instinctively, I'm just like, that's... That's that's a lot.
That's like crazy.

Speaker 1 I think she's been in America, though, since she was seven. Right.

Speaker 2 Has she?

Speaker 3 I believe so. I thought she had a student visa.

Speaker 1 I think she's been in America since she was very young. I think that's one of the things that I had read.
Okay.

Speaker 3 She'd previously been arrested in April 2024 for taking part.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Taking part in protests at Columbia University. So it seems like they're really trying to crack down on some of these Columbia protests, right?

Speaker 3 And I'm in two minds about that because I think on a free speech basis, unless I don't know the law.

Speaker 2 Just for clarity, that was a second person.

Speaker 3 Second person.

Speaker 1 Oh, this is a second person that was arrested? Second arrest. Oh, second pro-Palestinian Columbia University protester.
Okay, so this second person has been arrested before. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I see.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like, are we really arresting people for protesting or are they protesting and also causing vandalism and violence? Like, what are we saying?

Speaker 3 We don't know.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 3 But I think there's the legal thing from what I've read is very complicated because if someone is not a U.S. national, they may be subject to different rules or they may not.

Speaker 3 I think that's a kind of live debate.

Speaker 3 But from a purely principles perspective, someone being arrested for writing an article seems extreme.

Speaker 1 30-year-old was arrested and physically restrained by immigration officers near her apartment close to Tufts University's Somerville campus, where she was a PhD student.

Speaker 1 Six plainclothes officers surrounded, how do you say that name?

Speaker 2 Oz Turk. Oz Turk.
Oz Turk.

Speaker 1 As she walked alone, neighborhood surveillance video appears to show the officers did not show their badges until she was restrained. The video shows

Speaker 1 she affiliated with prestigious American universities to be arrested for purported activities related to terrorist organizations amid the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.

Speaker 1 So what did she say, though?

Speaker 3 She engaged in activities in support of Hamas. But what does that mean?

Speaker 1 Right. Without specifying what those alleged activities were.
Yeah, this is scary shit. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, especially if it's just protesting.
I mean, I don't know,

Speaker 1 you know.

Speaker 3 Look, the counter-argument on this, and I think it's one that I, as someone who visits the United States, also feel, is like,

Speaker 3 I don't think the United States would have given this person a visa if she had told them this is what she plans to do in America, right? So that's their argument.

Speaker 3 That's the argument that Marco Ruby is making, which is if we'd known you were going to do this, we were never going to give you a visa.

Speaker 1 I don't think this is the one that I'm thinking about that was here since she was seven.

Speaker 2 No, that's a Korean girl at Columbia University joke.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. And they're talking about deporting her, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, they're talking about deporting her. But I don't know enough about that.

Speaker 1 What had she done? Had she committed vandalism or I don't know enough about it.

Speaker 2 Jamie, if you get it up, then we can have a look at it.

Speaker 2 But that's the one you're thinking of. The girl who'd been here since she was seven is a Columbia student.

Speaker 2 This girl also went to Columbia.

Speaker 1 So she got her master's degree at Columbia. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Interesting. So Columbia is the hotbed.

Speaker 3 Seems like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I wonder why.

Speaker 1 Why, particularly, Colombia?

Speaker 3 Well, there have been a lot of protests, pro-Palestine protests in Colombia.

Speaker 1 There she is.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 that's the girl. You know,

Speaker 2 we're rapidly approaching the time where America and the UK is going to have a pretty uncomfortable debate as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable when it comes to dealing with people who come here illegally, people who commit crime or even if they attend protests.

Speaker 2 Where is the line? Because we're going to have to make a decision.

Speaker 2 Because until we do that and we start to actually apply the law as it's meant to be applied and put certain laws in place, then these type of things are just going to continue to happen.

Speaker 1 100%, especially if someone wants them to happen. Because that's my fear, is that a lot of these things are paid for and organized, including a lot of these protests at universities.

Speaker 1 I think they're doing it on purpose. And I think they're trying to

Speaker 1 build up a lot of passion in these people for being disruptive and a lot of passion for protest and passion for, and then they weaponize it. I really do.

Speaker 1 I believe that's exactly what they did with the Tesla buildings, with all the Tesla dealerships being light on fire. They weaponized it.
And it's a good test run.

Speaker 1 You know, if they can weaponize it against Tesla, they can do that with a lot of other things and justify that kind of vandalism and fire and arson and all the chaos and property destruction.

Speaker 2 I went to UCLA campus. This was May last year.
And I went to a pro-Palestine demonstration.

Speaker 2 And I just went around just interviewing people, talking to students, and both on pro-Palestine and the other side.

Speaker 2 And one thing one of the kids said to me was, as he was trying to get into the library, he was like, You know, most of the people who are doing this, they're not from UCLA.

Speaker 2 They're not from this college campus. What are they doing here?

Speaker 2 He goes, look, fair enough, if you want to protest and you go to UCLA, that's all cool, whatever. Number one, don't stop me from getting an education when my parents have paid X amount for it.

Speaker 2 But number two,

Speaker 2 he pointed at one of the dudes. He was like, that guy's about 42.
I know he doesn't go to my college. Why is he here protesting?

Speaker 1 He's being paid.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and you're right. And there are a lot of foreign governments that want this shit to be going on.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of bots online that want this to be.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of momentum that pushes things into these directions. These are not organic.
Just like Bernie Sanders' rally numbers aren't organic. These are not organic.
There's a narrative.

Speaker 1 I mean, that was during the Kamala Harris administration or during the campaign, rather.

Speaker 1 You saw these inorganic moments where they filled these arenas with people that were paid. And they spent how many billion?

Speaker 1 Two billion dollars over the course of three months to do do this, and it failed. But it's like you're manufacturing

Speaker 1 this passion, manufacturing this movement. And a lot of people are dumb, and it works on them.
And they're like, you don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm sure you saw that lady who was bragging about buying champagne and making fun of the guy selling her the champagne because he wasted his vote on Trump. And I'm buying champagne

Speaker 1 to toast Madam President.

Speaker 1 She's going to win. Women have come to the, like, she really believed it.

Speaker 1 Like, because they gaslit people so hard with their filled arenas and all the news coverage on CNN and MSNBC, and the polls are showing, the polls are showing, and it's going to be, Kamala Harris is going to be,

Speaker 1 and they just gaslit the whole country.

Speaker 3 And this is what happened with all that woke cancellation stuff as well, where it was a very small number of people who made themselves look a lot bigger online

Speaker 3 in order to then get companies to back down, to get universities to back down, in order to get other organizations who were just scared of the bad attention to back down.

Speaker 3 I look at a lot of stuff that happens on social media. I'm going, there's no fucking way that has got 80,000 likes organically.

Speaker 3 That's not real. No.

Speaker 1 It's hard to say what's real and what's not real. And until you take that chip in your head, you're not going to know.

Speaker 1 To sign up for the Neuralink program.

Speaker 3 It's one of the things that I'm really hopefully Elon can solve with X. That was one of the things he said when he took over.
We need to deal with the bot problem.

Speaker 3 I think there's more to do on that front, for sure.

Speaker 1 There's a lot more to do, and I don't know what they can actually do. Because with AI,

Speaker 1 I mean, you can have like really sophisticated programs that

Speaker 1 tweet as if they are from Afghanistan, tweet as if they're from wherever they are in the world. They can do it in different languages.

Speaker 1 It can all be done with AI now, and they can argue specific points. Like, you know, this guy is a Nazi.
Go out there and say it and prompt it.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden, you've got, looks like groundswell of support calling Elon Musk a Nazi. And then a bunch of people hop onto that and they think it's organic.

Speaker 1 And they think that, like, these Tesla, these people are fed up. That's why they're going to the Tesla dealerships.
No, they're getting, they're being paid.

Speaker 1 And they're trying to crash the stock of Tesla. They're trying to put people into panic mode so that it puts pressure on Elon to drop Doge.
Like, this is what's going on.

Speaker 1 Like, and you're watching it as if it's this organic moment. It's a puppet show.
You're watching a puppet show.

Speaker 2 And that's the thing that, you know, that really worries, I think, everybody at the moment is

Speaker 2 at a very basic fundamental level, I don't know what's real and what's not.

Speaker 1 No, I don't either.

Speaker 1 I wish I did because people think I do. Like, oh, you have inside information.
I don't have any. I have zero.

Speaker 1 I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2 But people, but I think we all need to understand, you to a greater extent, us to a lesser extent, like we're not real people to people online. We're just avatars.
Right.

Speaker 2 And then they'd imbue us with this knowledge that we've got this knowledge that we can see things.

Speaker 1 Controlled opposition. Oh, we are so that.
We get that so much. It's hilarious.
That is the that's for people that are just a little too smart to believe the earth is flat.

Speaker 1 They'll go with controlled opposition. But it's that they just don't know.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're on the outside looking in, like, if you're looking at Tom Hanks and his house, all right, it must be a pedophile to get that house.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 1 everybody on the outside of like people that are, which, you know, with a guy like Tom Hanks is essentially like a kind of royalty, like a movie star royalty, like that class of celebrity is like almost beyond.

Speaker 1 And so they don't seem like normal people to you. They go to that eyes wide shut party and drink baby blood.
And like, there's all these bizarre things attributed to those people.

Speaker 1 And they're in control of the narrative.

Speaker 1 But there's some. People that really are in control of the narrative.
There's some people that really are, like CIA agents that are on TV shows, you know, that's real.

Speaker 1 There's like people that have worked for the CIA that are now on television telling you what the news is. If that doesn't seem fucking crazy,

Speaker 1 you know, it's just

Speaker 1 we're going through a bizarre period of

Speaker 1 being bombarded with constant information, having unprecedented access to each other and information, and also watching all the powers that be try to snatch up more and more control over society.

Speaker 1 We're watching it play out in real time. And we're concentrating on girls and sports and whether or not this is real.
Should gay people still be able to get married? It's all bullshit.

Speaker 1 You're just watching more and more power be acquired by the people with the most amount of money.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's why people like Jeff Bezos buy with the Washington Post.

Speaker 1 Well, at least he turned it around and said lately that they're going to have to stop with all these left-wing opinion pieces and just post about the news. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, which everybody's freaking out. Because they really think they have like a mandate to be like the moral voice of the world, which is so hilarious.

Speaker 2 I agree with you. That is good.
But do you think any journalist is going to be allowed to write a piece about Amazon criticizing them?

Speaker 1 I doubt it. I wouldn't do it.
If I worked there, I'd shut my fucking mouth. I want to buy a house.

Speaker 1 Trying to buy a house. Yeah.
Well, I can't lose it. I get it.
Yeah, they should get more money. Whatever.

Speaker 3 And that comes back to our Lord of the Rings conversation because even well-intentioned people who are doing things that we might like,

Speaker 3 everyone's got an agenda.

Speaker 1 Well, and

Speaker 1 that's why he comes along and equally distributes all the money. So what's it?

Speaker 1 Boys, let's wrap this up.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you both very much. It's always cool to talk to you.
I'm happy you visit often.

Speaker 1 And I'm glad you're having a good time over here, and I hope you get your fucking shit together with your country because come on. Joe.

Speaker 2 Come on now. Can I just say one thing? Yes.
I've got a book out in August.

Speaker 2 It's called Classroom Confidential.

Speaker 1 Is it in August? It's coming out?

Speaker 2 Yeah, August the 18th. Have you finished it?

Speaker 1 I finished it yesterday. It takes that long to release a book?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it does. It does.
It does. Particularly the

Speaker 2 printing industry in the UK.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So but yeah, so it's coming out. It's all about being a teacher and why you should never be one.

Speaker 3 And it's very funny.

Speaker 1 Beautiful. Very beautiful.
Well come back when it comes out. Yeah.
Come back. We'll talk again.
I'd love to.

Speaker 1 Your show, Trigonometry, it's available everywhere. anything else uh we both got sub stacks yep i've got a sub stack he's got a sub stack look at you guys well fucking writing and shit

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 3 and your show is how many times a week do you guys do it we put two episodes out every week uh so wednesdays and sundays is interviews do you do like sub stacks episodes like different ones or patreon or so yeah on subst on our sub stack on the trigonometry sub stack you get to hear the guest answer your questions so people send in questions ahead of time oh that's cool oh that's nice yeah People love that.

Speaker 1 That's a great idea. That's a good way to add extra value.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's what we're always thinking about is how do we offer people who support us extra value? Because unlike the people on the internet who say we're controlled, opposition, paid by, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 We're actually just paid by our fans.

Speaker 1 That's actually a very good idea, though, to let the fans actually have questions, too. And those are find the good ones.

Speaker 3 A lot of them are good ones. And what we often do as well is we look through them before the interview.

Speaker 3 And if we can't get them in at the end, we'll actually try and incorporate them into the discussion itself.

Speaker 1 Oh, beautiful. Yeah.
okay. Appreciate you both very much.
Always, thanks, brother.

Speaker 3 Thank you. Thanks very much.

Speaker 1 Thanks. Bye, everybody.