1191: Digital Nomads | Skeptical Sunday

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Welcome to Skeptical Sunday.

I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger.

Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher Jessica Wynne.

On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

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Today on Skeptical Sunday, we drag the buzzphrase digital nomads out of its beach hammock and see if there's any substance under all the sand.

On the surface, digital nomads are the ultimate fantasy.

Remote workers, untethered from cubicles, jet-setting to sip iced coffee in Bali, and then they work from a rooftop bar in Lisbon, making passive income along the way.

But what is behind the Instagram posts and YouTube clips of perfect sunsets and exotic locations?

Is it freedom?

Is it fraud?

Is it a cultural shift?

Or just a new way to burn out, but with better weather?

Joining me today is writer and researcher Jessica Wynn.

So Jess, first, what is a digital nomad in the first place?

And more importantly, how's the weather in Bora Bora?

I wish I knew, but it's pretty nice here in Southern California, so no complaints.

I mean, in theory, a digital nomad is someone who works remotely while traveling and living in different locations.

So all they need is Wi-Fi and they can do their job anywhere.

A beach, a hostel, a weird co-working space in Croatia with beanbag chairs and bad coffee.

It sounds nice.

I'll take it.

I mean, does it?

You know, I like my own bed.

I like my own shower.

Coming home from a trip is part of the joy of traveling for me.

Like, oh, when you lay down on your fresh pillow, you know?

Yeah.

So the nomadic life is definitely not for everyone.

Yeah, traveling for work can be cool, but constantly on a working vacation, it kind of sounds like, well, one, not a vacation, and it kind of sounds like a headache with questionable accommodations involved.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, just because you answer Slack messages from an Airbnb sometimes doesn't make you a digital nomad.

It's not a job title as much as a lifestyle choice and honestly, a brand.

So, is being a digital nomad, is this a career path?

I don't, I mean, I've never seen a drop-down list that says digital nomad.

It's not on any job application I've ever seen.

Yeah, it's not a job title or an escape from work.

Digital nomads do work, and they work a lot, just not in stereotypical fixed locations.

When did this become a thing?

It seems pretty new.

Yeah, it's new-ish, but it's older than you might guess.

The term digital nomad was coined in 1997 by Sujio Makamoto and David Manors.

So they looked into the future in their book called Digital Nomad, where they laid out the idea that technology will allow people to work from anywhere.

And then fast forward to 2020, when COVID hits, remote work explodes and suddenly everyone's booking one-way tickets to exotic locations.

And to live this so-called dream, you still need a way to make money.

So what, you need a decent Wi-Fi signal too, I guess?

Yeah.

Digital nomads are often developers, designers, writers, or running some form of content-based businesses, which sometimes is just talking and posting about being a digital nomad.

Okay, sure.

But you and I travel the world and meet remotely, but we don't, I mean, I'm not a nomad.

You're not a nomad.

So what's the difference?

Yeah, totally, because you and I have fixed home bases.

Okay.

And we're not making money filming TikToks from infinity pools in Bangkok.

I mean, that sounds awesome, but yeah.

That does sound awesome.

But the digital nomad title, it can be self-proclaimed, so the term does get a bit blurry.

You know, remote workers, expats, telecommuters, freelancers, it can all overlap, and the Venn diagram will get a bit messy.

Well, there's a big difference between a digital nomad and an expat, though, right?

Absolutely.

For one, You have to live in another country, usually gain citizenship to be an expat.

Expats don't usually work work remotely without homes.

The similarity is that they both leave their home country to work abroad, but digital nomads work entirely remotely and are often freelancers.

So this enables them to travel from country to country while working.

So remote workers aren't digital nomads, but digital nomads are remote workers.

Okay, so this is like a new caste system.

for people with MacBooks and personal branding and weird job titles, I guess.

So what about just getting a remote job and traveling whenever you want?

Is that what's the difference?

That's not nomadic.

You know, that's just a lucky duck with no debt, I hope.

Yeah, hopefully no debt indeed.

Yeah.

So who's actually doing the nomad thing?

Can we search job sites for digital nomad wanted?

I'm guessing not.

Or is it is it under hip job titles like vibe architect?

Vibe architect.

What is that?

I don't know.

No one knows, actually.

You won't find it in a job search.

So digital nomads, they do all kinds of jobs.

Programmers, marketers, anything that lets you email someone from a hammock and call it productivity.

Okay, so there seems to be a lot of people trying this out.

Or is that actually an illusion caused by my social media feed?

There's actually a lot more than I expected.

I was surprised to find that as of 2023, Over 17 million Americans call themselves digital nomads.

Wow.

Yeah, that's up 130% just from 2019, which tells us people realize during the pandemic that they hate going to the office.

And so the Wi-Fi in places like Tulum must be under some serious stress at this point.

Yeah, is this a trend among 20-somethings trying to figure it all out?

This sounds like something I would do in my 20s for sure.

Yeah, I assume that too, but also surprising, it's not.

The average age for a digital nomad is 39, and about 70% of them do this full-time.

Okay, so it's a midlife crisis thing more than a twice thing.

So middle-aged LinkedIn warriors are just out there flexing those WeWork memberships?

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, the demographics break down to around 75% of digital nomads are straight, white, and overwhelmingly American, with nearly half of the world's digital nomads being from the U.S.

The rest are mostly from the UK, Russia, Canada, and Germany, with a sprinkling from around the rest of the globe.

Men comprise like 56% of digital nomads.

Women, 43%, and non-binary, 1%.

I'm sort of shocked those stats even exist.

But yeah, that tracks.

I could never fall into this.

I've got a wife.

I've got kids.

I just don't think it's possible.

Well, of American digital nomads polled in 2023, about 25% of them travel with their kids and partner.

Wow.

About 15% of them travel with pets.

Oh, come on.

Nothing screams location independence like trying to manage a toddler and a schnauzer in a foreign Airbnb.

Yeah, man.

I can't even wrap my head around constantly traveling with my little ones.

And also to have a dog with you.

It's just, oh, no, my God.

It's not homeschooling if there's no home, I guess.

I don't know.

Nomadic schooling, that sounds like a major pain in the butt with a pet.

I can't believe it.

That statistic I'm unclear of.

So from what I read, how the kids are educated, I'm not quite sure.

But of digital nomads themselves, over 90%

have some form of higher education and more than half have a bachelor's.

Okay.

So this isn't exactly a dropout crowd, right?

It's more of an MBA with a yoga mat will travel.

Yeah, that tracks with people I know that are digital nomads.

They're almost all like Deloitte grads.

I was a consultant and then I realized my whole life was ticking away and now I'm 40 and oh my God, I got to get out of LA.

Like my producer Gabriel, for example.

All right, top of the line, laptop seems necessary.

You got to have what a USB-powered fan and some beats by Dre as well.

That probably would help.

The interviews and podcasts I've listened to sound like it takes a tech-obsessed individual to flourish in the lifestyle.

So you kind of have to be, right?

If your entire livelihood depends on staying connected.

in multiple time zones while trying to get a VPN to load Slack or whatever.

Yeah, that's the thing.

Are bosses okay with this?

I guess I technically don't know where you are right now and it doesn't matter as long as you kind of meet the requirements.

Yeah, sure.

I mean, I guess it could be anywhere.

I've had to record with you away from home and my experience, it never goes well.

No, correct.

I prefer a reliable setup.

And what's interesting is about half of all digital nomads, they see themselves as free agents.

So they're not loyal employees.

They're their own boss, which makes sense, right?

Loyalty doesn't pair well with a rolling suitcase and a burner phone and a SIM card that may or may not connect that day over in Laos or wherever.

Yeah, so this is more popular than I thought, man.

It's not a fringe thing for lost deadheads who've been looking for a way to wander since Jerry died, right?

This is actual professionals with degrees, with disposable income, although I'm still imagining their LinkedIn bios are full of phrases like location agnostic and cloud-based solutions strategist and whatnot.

I guess my question is, just because all these people can be digital nomads, does it mean they actually should?

Is there any data on whether this is working?

Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's not for everyone.

A lot of folks wonder why anyone would willingly want to live out of a backpack, staring at screens at all hours and explaining to their family and friends that, yes, I have a job.

So should they be living this way is debatable, I guess.

But

the pitch is that digital nomads value the freedom to work from anywhere and choose their lifestyle.

The most common claims of why they do it are pursuit of travel, exploration, and the big one seems to be stretch your income by working from affordable places.

So some kind of location arbitrage where you make a U.S.

salary, but you've got like a Vietnam slash Thailand cost of living?

Exactly.

You're basically outsourcing your own life.

You're the boss and you're the cheap labor.

So the promise isn't actually passive income.

You take portable skills, work wherever, make enough to keep this up.

It's kind of exhausting to think about this.

This lifestyle sounds super fun.

Don't get me wrong.

I would have loved to do this in my 20s.

It wasn't possible back then from a technical standpoint.

My real problem here is that the line between remote worker, like some of the folks working with us on this show, and sort of von der Lust Grifter, the people I've desperately tried to avoid hiring to work on the show, that line seems really thin sometimes.

Yeah.

And the dream it's made out to be is to ditch the soul-sucking nine-to-five and work from the beach, achieving total freedom.

But in reality, it seems like most digital nomads are glued to their laptops at expensive co-working spaces.

They're juggling clients in different time zones and praying the Wi-Fi doesn't drop mid-Zoom.

Or worse, the Wi-Fi is so sketchy, all your data gets compromised.

I hadn't thought about that.

I hadn't even considered the cybersecurity element of all this.

Logging in from a different public Wi-Fi network with crap security that's never been updated every day is a great way to get hacked.

And having all of your important client data potentially on a laptop that you shove into a backpack while you take a dip in the ocean, also not that much better.

No, no, no.

And digital nomads are at increased risk of online threats like phishing and malware due to their constant reliance on technology while traveling.

And think about working across time zones.

You're either up at 5 a.m.

or scheduling your emails to go out at midnight, hoping you've accounted for daylight savings correctly.

Time zone management is a real skill when you're a digital nomad.

So you need to obtain the freedom to have a client in New York whose emails you can answer timely from a hostel bunk in Vietnam.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

I didn't even think about this, but one of the major issues that I would have is if you are in a remote area, like maybe, okay, you're not in Bangkok or something, you're in.

an island in Thailand.

If your stuff breaks, gets wet, gets stolen, your business is at a screeching halt.

I couldn't afford to do that.

I would almost have to have like a backup laptop somewhere else that's safer than where I currently am.

Right.

It's like the equivalent of your business burning down or something.

Yeah.

Like if I'm in Bangkok, I run to the Apple store and restore everything from the cloud and then, you know, pray that other people have stuff on our drive.

But if somebody jacks my laptop and I'm four hours away from a, or eight hours away from an Apple store, I'm in trouble.

I'm in actual trouble.

That's woof.

Yeah, that's a nightmare.

When I travel, the whole time zone thing is almost always a pain.

I do wonder where these people keep their stuff because it would stress not just their computers, but their stuff stuff.

It would stress me out not to have my own towels, let alone my desk.

And I've got all these little comforts of the modern world that I guess I didn't need in my 20s, but that I can't live without now.

Maybe this is how I know I'm getting old and cranky.

I don't know.

Yeah, I know.

Like without...

being able to stock my decoy snack drawer to fool my boyfriend, you know, I'd be miserable.

But they don't have stuff, right?

That's the point, minimalism.

So you have to own little and travel light with one carry-on, two pairs of pants, and keep listening to that TED talk that reminds you to prioritize experiences over possessions.

All of which is fine, but I couldn't do it.

But let's be clear.

A lot of this minimalist wisdom is people couchsurfing because they don't have a home to keep their stuff, right?

There's an old George Carlin bit.

about the need for a place to keep all of our stuff.

That's the whole meaning of life, isn't it?

Trying to find a place for your stuff.

That's all your house is.

Your house is just a place for your stuff.

If you didn't have so much goddamn stuff, you wouldn't need a house.

You could just walk around all the time.

What do you bring?

Now you just bring the things you know you're gonna need.

Money, keys, comb, wallet, lighter, hanky pens, cigarettes, contraceptors, Vaseline, whips, chains, whistles, dildos, and a book.

Yeah, yeah.

I doubt Carlin would be into nomadism, and he'd make jokes about keeping their stuff just in the cloud or something, you know?

Yes.

But nomadism is not cheap and storage is a part of that.

So on the surface, there's this weird myth that digital nomads are saving tons of money by living in quote-unquote affordable countries.

But from what I've researched, the math doesn't really math, right?

Like you're constantly paying for short-term housing, like hotels, hostels, Airbnbs.

There's rental cars, travel costs, co-working fees, eating out all the time, storage costs for many, and those $8 cappuccinos you have to buy to access Wi-Fi in a cafe that probably doesn't want you there all day.

Yeah, so this doesn't sound like financial freedom for a lot of these folks, just financial reshuffling.

You're still working and you're working hard, just with more sand and less stability.

And it can't be easy.

It doesn't seem...

like you can just pick up and start doing this.

How do you become a digital nomad?

What's the process like here?

You start by developing remote work skills.

Okay.

That can be tech stuff, writing, design, whatever you can do from a laptop.

Okay.

Then you have to be savvy enough to build a network, connect with other digital nomads, build professional relationships, plan and research destinations, obsess over Wi-Fi speed tests, and hunt for the right visas.

Yeah, that's right.

It must be challenging to manage visas.

I hadn't really thought of that.

As an American, we kind of, this is always an afterthought, right?

Right.

Is that the bureaucratic nightmare that it sounds like it is?

It absolutely is.

Imagine playing a never-ending game of where in the world can I legally exist without getting deported.

Well, yeah.

The rules change every month and with every country, and visas can cost you around $300 a pop.

This has got to be especially hard for people from non-Western countries or places where you don't have a great passport.

Look, it's probably super easy.

You're Japanese, you're German, you're Swiss, you're American, whatever.

You got to go work in a place like Vietnam.

You You just got to show up.

But if you're from Russia or Belarus or something like that, your options are probably a lot more limited and the hassle factor just has to go through the roof.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, the reality is that passport power plays a crucial role in accessibility.

So strong passports from places like you mentioned, like Japan or Germany, they definitely allow for greater freedom of movement and fewer bureaucratic hurdles.

You're just booking flights and chasing Wi-Fi compared to, say, those passports from Belarus or Nepal, which is more like a part-time job in international paperwork and embassy websites.

Aren't there digital nomad visas, though?

I swear I've heard of this, or is that just a tourist visa with extra headaches?

Digital nomad visas do exist in some places.

There are visa documents that give someone the legal right to be in a country while working remotely from a job that's based out of that country.

Okay.

It's like a tourist visa, kind of, but it allows you to earn an income quietly.

You know, different visas mean different things.

In 2015, for example, I worked in Ireland and I had a work visa, but every six weeks or so, I had to leave the country for at least 24 hours and then return to reset the clock.

It was a drag, but like a fun one because fortunately Ireland's surrounded by cheap flights and ferries and I didn't mind spending a weekend in England or Malta or the Isle of Man or whatever.

But No kidding.

The big difference is I wasn't taking my work with me and I was on the Irish payroll, so I wouldn't qualify as a digital nomad.

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All right, back to Skeptical Sunday.

I do travel for work, but it's mostly kind of willingly, you know, I'm going, I'm planning this.

I almost always just say, I'm going to a convention or I'm a tourist on vacation or something.

I try not to make things too complicated.

I know this is like illegal in some places, but

I mean, yeah, no one listens to this.

I figure nobody is really going to know or even care, frankly, if I record a podcast from China or Taiwan.

But getting a work visa for China or Taiwan for a company not located in those countries, first of all, I'm not even sure that exists.

I might be breaking a couple of laws somehow technically, but I just, I don't see how me renting a studio for a podcast or to record some better help ad spots for the show, I don't see how that's much different from somebody else taking a Zoom call and doing 50 emails from a hotel lobby while their kids are at the pool.

How much are they going to bother to enforce this crap is my question.

I guess very technically it's questionable, but morally, you're fine.

So you're not like running a black market dental clinic, right?

You're just editing audio near a volcano.

Yes.

I don't think international law has caught up to podcasting yet.

And if it does, half the hotel lobbies in the world are going to be full of felons or criminals anyway.

Because I know I'm not the only one who's like, yeah, I'm in Taiwan and my family's here and I'm on a tourist visa, but I'm cranking out a couple of emails and taking a Zoom call and making sure this is done because I don't want to go home to a giant pile of work.

I mean, come on.

How can you monitor that?

Yeah.

What are you going to do?

Send the police?

Like you said, you weren't going to work while you were here for a company that's not in the country.

Who cares?

Do many countries offer digital nomad visas?

Because I know this is so new, but it's like, is this a thing that one one place has and it never gets issued?

Yeah, I mean, more than I expected.

Okay.

That's for sure.

As of 2025, over 50 countries offer some kind of remote work visa.

Oh, wow.

And it's places you might not expect, like Estonia, the Bahamas, Colombia, Croatia.

The list goes on.

Some countries are kind of fun about it, but others bury you in paperwork, fingerprint scans, and tax confusion.

Yeah, that's a good point.

It must be frustrating to have to adjust to the new rules every time you cross a border.

People probably just don't bother.

Yeah, I mean, and it varies wildly.

Like the Bahamas offers a thing called beats by Dre.

Nothing to do with headphones.

It's their extended access travel stay policy, and it'll cost you $525

US for a one-year remote work permit.

But you must provide solid documents and proof you won't just become a beach bum.

So a beach bum with a laptop is okay.

Right.

Thinking about it, though, this does make sense.

They don't want to have to spend their own resources taking care of you or deporting you or whatever if your remote work turns out to be a flailing OnlyFans or no real work at all.

It sounds like the costs can add up if you go to a lot of different places and you run things actually by the book, which I assume kind of nobody's really doing.

Yeah, there's not much incentive to go buy the book.

So if you're a company with employees, the Dominican Republic will give you what they call a discount, $800 a year for the first employee, and then the bargain of $500 for each additional one.

Groupon for bureaucrats.

Yeah, I mean,

why would you want to do that?

So, you know, other countries go all in, though, welcoming digital nomads with open arms.

So, there's some places like Albania, Belize, Greece, among others.

They have pretty easy digital nomad visas that aren't as expensive.

Other countries like Dubai and Ecuador have very remote-friendly visas, but all of them seem to involve tons of paperwork and a reasonable fear of immigration offices.

Oh my God.

Can you get one of these visas to be a digital nomad in the United States?

Does that exist here?

Not a chance.

The U.S.

offers zero digital nomad-specific visas.

So if you're a foreigner working remotely for a non-U.S.

company, you have no legal path to live here and work from your laptop.

Okay.

We probably shouldn't step too far into this topic given the current climate, but I do think it's ironic considering America kind of invented the laptop and quote-unquote the grind in the first place.

But it's not just the U.S.

that doesn't welcome this kind of visitor.

There's a lot of countries that don't have systems in place.

So digital nomads put together a patchwork of tourist visas, residence loopholes, and just spend a lot of time filling out paperwork.

Is it easier within the EU or does every country have its own visa rules?

If you're an EU citizen, you've got it made.

You have freedom of movement throughout all of the European Union, so you can bounce around.

But for non-EU citizens, it's a logistical circus.

On top of managing finances, you have to research each country's visa timelines, proof of income requirements, health insurance coverage, and just constantly watching the clock tick down on your legal stay.

So in between the advertised sunrise yoga and fancy cafes, you're just buried in freaking paperwork.

What a drag.

Yeah.

I mean, a lot of it seems like unnecessary stress just with changing scenery.

Exactly.

I've read so many articles and blogs.

I've listened to a bunch of podcasts and over and over digital nomads say the same thing.

They're stressed about money, worried about visas, and eventually most of them burn out, which leads a lot of desperate digital nomads to this dark underbelly of this lifestyle, the digital nomad course industrial complex.

So I've seen the Instagram ads that are selling learn to make six figures while traveling the world as a digital nomad.

And it really just sounds like the multi-level marketing of remote work.

But every ad somehow involves a drone shot of somebody typing on a beach in linen pants.

So I don't know, man.

I'm kind of on the fence.

Have you ever taken your laptop to the beach?

It's the worst experience.

It's the worst experience.

I can't see the screen.

screen and if you get a single grain of sand in your keyboard like on the f key it's just you hear it and you're like that's gonna this is destroyed now i have to throw this in the garbage yeah it's a nightmare we already know not to believe what we see on social media especially with people with their laptops on the beach but these courses prey on people who feel stuck in their lives their jobs their cities and of course To you, me, and most people listening, it's full of all the red flags of a classic scam.

Yeah.

Especially if they're sharing their digital nomads secrets with you for a price.

Right.

For the low price of $99.99, I'll tell you how to make money online.

And the secret is to send that same message to more vulnerable people.

And boom, now you're a guru.

You just need photos.

But to be clear, this is just an unwanted symptom of digital nomadism.

This has nothing to do with the people successfully living this way, which does exist.

But unfortunately, it's now associated with a whole ecosystem of scammers who live teaching others how to become digital nomads.

So if you want to become a digital nomad and you're considering paying for a course, a nomad school, or a coaching session, please keep listening to this.

I know we are diving into the classic pyramid structure, but now with Wi-Fi.

Yeah, I mean, you nailed it.

You know, when you look at the courses full of content, it's pages of fluff with stuff you could just Google in five minutes.

Yeah.

Get on Coursera for 20 bucks or this podcast for free.

So a lot of those so-called courses provide outdated, recycled, AI-generated information that's often just wrong.

If the SEO blog to passive income model was actually possible slash really easy, we would all be millionaires lounging on a lazy river in Costa Rica.

It's just not a thing.

I mean, wouldn't that be nice?

But instead, 95% of digital nomads are grinding it out in co-working spaces for 70 plus hours a week in Thailand because it's cheap to be nomadic there.

In my research, I found the majority of people selling the courses aren't even digital nomads.

Really?

They might have traveled a bit.

They couldn't make it work.

And now their full-time gig is selling these courses about their individual experience, making it seem like they were successful.

Right.

So their actual business business is teaching people, how to teach people how to be a digital nomad.

That is so rich.

Yeah, so meta, right?

And it's pretty bleak.

I mean, only a handful of digital nomads make real money.

So technically it is possible, but a lot depends on having a squad of affiliate students shilling the course in exchange for kickbacks.

You know, that's why it's pyramid scheme territory.

I feel like this is a good time to remind ourselves that being a digital nomad is not the actual job, right?

That's a descriptor for the lifestyle.

And you need a good job to make the lifestyle work, right?

I mean, can anyone really teach you how to be a digital nomad?

I mean, if I work remotely for Apple, I still have to be in the office at a certain time.

I mean, I don't need skills for this, really.

Right.

I mean, I can teach you how to do it.

It's simple.

Okay.

Get a remote job, start 100% online business.

Buy a plane ticket and then book an Airbnb.

Okay.

That's it.

I saved you thousands in course fees.

You're welcome.

I mean, the most important point here is that being a digital nomad literally means living life with no fixed residence, traveling the world working remotely, but you have to have a job, though.

So what are these courses actually teaching?

I still don't get it.

What's in the damn course?

Nothing, period.

Look, I'm not against travel.

I'm not against remote work.

But this particular brand of snake oil teaching people to be digital nomads, it's cruel.

And it targets people's despair and it sells them a lifestyle that for most is financially unsustainable and emotionally exhausting.

You know, it's like punk rock or a stand-up.

It just can't be taught.

You know, Larry David would back me up here.

People, like if they want to be an actor or they, or a comedian, they, they take it so seriously.

Like there are

there's no class.

You can't, there's nothing to learn.

You either you can do it or you can't, I think, right?

I agree.

Either you can do it or you can't do it.

And as somebody who works my butt off running my own business, building a brand, it kind of infuriates me.

Instead of these innocent people marketing their actual talents or products, they basically bought a dream and then their business dies and the courses don't help.

They just drain people of the very resources they need to survive.

I know a lot of people who teach business and online business.

And they don't sell the lifestyle of like, you can work remotely.

You can work to, they're like, I just know how to create an online business.

I don't know, you know, how much, it's going to take you a lot of time.

You're going to have a lot of things you have have to do.

And some of my friends do run their businesses remotely most of the time, but they're not teaching other people how to do the same thing.

It's kind of weird to sell a lifestyle instead of just business skills, but I get that that's the marketing.

I just think it's really shady.

It's so shady.

And it's takes away from the fact that these people have training and education and qualifications to work this way.

It's just a choice of where they're doing it.

And the thing is, spending your money on Instagram ads for a legitimate business instead of giving your money to an ad scam would be a better investment to keep your company afloat.

It's not just Instagram ads, though.

It's all the posts that promote the fantasy, right?

It's the drone shots.

Yeah, I know.

It's it's you look at posts of ocean views and smoothies and gratitude quotes, but digital nomads selling courses to other rubes forget to mention the multi-air BNB shared with six strangers in a co-living villa or the $10 bank fees every time you buy something, and crying in a WeWork bathroom.

Social media does this kind of in general, right?

It's not just for digital nomads.

It just

fools us.

That's right.

But that's the game that really pisses me off.

Selling hope is easier than building something real.

We can't advertise cigarettes like we used to.

We shouldn't be able to advertise pyramid schemes and empty promises and all that other BS.

I mean, completely.

And that's so much of our feeds.

And it's not just bad advice people are sinking 25 bucks into.

This is selling a fantasy economy built on the idea that you don't need to work hard.

These courses are only selling pretty beach pics and testimonials.

But behind the scenes, people who fall for it, they're broke.

They're burned out.

They're moving back in with their parents.

And that being said, I want to say again, like there are successful digital nomads, but none of them are selling scammy courses.

Yeah, anyone selling the digital nomad lifestyle as a cure for your current situation in life, they're not offering you a solution.

They're selling you a repackaged lie in an Insta filter.

Our video guy, Ian, he's going to be mad if he hears this, probably.

Maybe, maybe medium mad.

He's a digital nomad.

He's from Canada.

He's always all over the place, but he is the only digital nomad that I've hired who gets the job done.

He communicates, like, hey, my internet might be a little bit bad next week.

Can you get me all the resources I need so I can still work offline?

Blah, blah, blah.

He's great, but he's not in this coarse bullshit ecosystem.

And I actually, as a policy, will not hire DNs.

Let's use the abbreviation here because the hit rate of getting an Ian, like my video guy who gets it done, is like one in 50, 1 in 100.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

I don't need to figure out if you can do your actual job while traveling.

I got to figure out if you're good enough at your actual job while you are at home with stable internet.

I don't need the litany of excuses about why you couldn't even show up in the first place.

I think one in 100 is probably being generous.

You know, a lot of people who rush into the lifestyle after investing in courses find themselves and, and this was a word that was new to me, a begpacker.

Love it.

So there's people who don't have the skills or the job required to make a living and they end up holding a cardboard sign in Bali asking strangers to fund their journey back home.

If making money were so easy, we'd all be drinking mojitos at exclusive resorts, wouldn't we?

Instead, I'm in the home that I own recording a podcast with no pants on, as is tradition for a Thursday.

Oh, I'm so grateful to know that.

Yeah, you get it.

I mean, I get to record this in my own home with my books, my records, my three plants, and my memories without having to explain what I do for work to new people every 48 hours.

Oh, yeah, I didn't even think about that.

Yeah, let's be real.

Constantly moving sounds exciting in theory, especially for younger folks, but in practice, I travel a bit.

And when I travel for an extended period of time, it would suck to always have to be saying goodbye.

I cannot imagine not even having a home to get back to or never putting down roots or constantly reintroducing yourself every month or every couple of weeks, whatever.

Your job, your whole deal, again and again and again.

And you just don't even see these people again, right?

Everything's temporary.

That would just drive me nuts.

I know, I know.

And the funny thing I found researching the lifestyle is that digital nomads love

to talk about community.

Like they hype up co-working spaces and Slack groups and beach meetups.

There's even a full-blown digital nomad cruise.

No.

But honestly, it feels like they're just overcompensating for how disconnected they actually are.

I don't know.

We're all getting norovirus together on this boat.

Isn't it?

Isn't it awesome?

Life-changing.

Yeah, it's got to be deeply isolating.

You're always new.

Everybody and everything is temporary.

Everybody you meet is in that circle.

It's also temporary.

So they have the same outlook as you.

I might never see you again, whatever.

And even the place you're in, probably not going to be your home for much longer.

So it's not even just people.

It's like your favorite cafe.

You moved.

Okay.

Well, now you need a new one.

And it's, it just, that would just get old real fast.

Doing it for a couple of months, fine.

Doing it for any longer than that, it would just start to suck so hard.

Totally.

I mean, and loneliness is a big negative of the nomadic lifestyle.

So, and let's not forget that working remotely in paradise, it doesn't erase the pressure of bills, of deadlines, and social FOMO.

You're not.

ever on vacation.

You're just working from a place where everyone else is on vacation.

So

you're still working hard just without this tangible community, without that one barista who knows your drink as soon as you walk in and asks how your kids are doing.

You know, many digital nomads express that it can be lonely as hell.

I actually have a cousin.

Her and her husband, instead of buying a house, they spent all that money on this really crazy, tricked out RV.

But they call themselves digital nomads, but they're always going to the same campsites.

And in the winter, they they're stable in one like RV community in Florida.

So that's one of those blurry things.

Like, are they digital nomads?

Like they still kind of have home bases and they have a place for all their stuff, right?

So they don't really experience loneliness because they sort of have a system of where they're driving to all the time.

They have communities in different places.

Exactly.

It does bum me out to think that people think this is the solution to their problems or the key to happiness.

It's more kind of wherever you go, there you are.

I spent a lot of years being like, in Israel, I'm going to be happier.

When I moved to Germany, I'm going to be happier.

When I moved to Ukraine, I'm going to be happier.

Like, I did that so much.

Mexico, Serbia, right?

It was always like, Panama, this is the place where I'm really going to open up and shine.

And I grew in each little place, but it wasn't sort of like I kind of just brought my own issues there and then was like, oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're still you.

Damn it.

Still trying to work on that one.

If you're unhappy with your life, your job, your city, whatever, becoming a digital nomad might hit reset, but it's not going to guarantee you peace or fulfillment.

You're still you, you're just jet lagged.

And there are real documented mental health costs like isolation, financial stress, emotional stress.

I mean, it can take a toll fast.

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Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday.

For me, always having to find a quiet place to work would make me freaking miserable.

Having no home base would not feel like freedom to me.

Further, it seems really hard to generate reliable income that way.

It's already hard enough to run a business.

Now I have to find a new place to do it every few weeks or like, oh, the internet's down today for the city or there's no power.

It's like, that's not fun at a certain point.

Yeah, that would drive me nuts too.

I mean, there are a small percentage of digital nomads who've made the lifestyle work for a decade or maybe a little bit more, but I don't think it's as sustainable as the fantasy wants us to believe.

So there are programs like AdSense that do legitimately bring in money, but you need to have a massive audience to make anything meaningful.

And then you have to maintain that audience, which would just be endless algorithm anxiety.

That can take well over 40 hours a week.

And the average income for those working really hard is just $2,500 a month.

That's not going far after travel, housing, visas, and work spaces.

All those costs are covered.

That's a good point.

And the success with those programs, like AdSense, it depends on timing.

And you got to be lucky, being at the right place in the right time, the right niche.

So how are so many people doing this?

Are they all just kind of like trust fund kids or they just got super lucky or whatever?

That's one of the first things I researched.

And surprisingly, no, there's an insignificant percentage of trust funders.

So digital nomads are hardworking.

They're crafty individuals who understand the advantage of spending strong currencies like the U.S.

dollar, the pound, or the Euro in economies where that's going to go a long way.

All this has to have some effect on local economies, right?

I mean, you can't just all go live in.

the same small town.

Sure, yeah.

When digital nomads roll into town and overpay for smoothies and clothes and snatch up rentals, it warps the economy for the people who actually live there.

Living costs rise, infrastructure is strained, and locals can be displaced because they're priced out of their own neighborhoods.

Yeah, that's not ideal.

So both the locals and the nomads are under financial stress at that point.

Yeah.

And for the nomads themselves, you know, freelance jobs fall through, clients disappear.

currency exchange fees eat into your income.

You know, you have to juggle inconsistent payments across five platforms, all the time zones, multiple languages.

And we haven't even considered taxes yet.

I know this has got to be just outrageously complicated.

How the hell do you handle that?

It's unpleasant.

If you follow the law, I mean.

Yeah, digital nomads usually owe taxes to wherever they are legally a resident.

For U.S.

citizens, at least.

You file taxes no matter what, even if you haven't stepped foot in this country all year.

But the rest of it is like a labyrinth to me.

If you keep money in a foreign bank account, there's just different rules everywhere.

And back in the U.S., each state has different laws for foreign earnings.

I thought I had to track everything.

This sounds like that movie Brazil is awful.

Paperwork.

Couldn't stand a paperwork.

Listen,

this whole system of yours could be on fire, and I couldn't even turn on a kitchen tap without filling out a 27 beast stroke.

Six

bloody paperwork.

Yeah, like most De Niro films, that movie holds up so many forms.

And there's also a 183-day rule in most countries, which is if you spend more than half the year in one country, you owe them taxes.

Right.

And there's tax treaties that can play naughty or nice depending on the relationship between countries.

For as wistful and chill as the ads make it out to be, this requires a serious business person.

Another cost is hiring a great accountant who knows international tax law, especially in the places you're going to be or have been in the past fiscal year.

But even with an accountant, all the paperwork and rules, that seems like another full-time job on top of your actual job.

So working from a poolside cafe in the Mediterranean is most certainly amazing, but you better have good tax advisors.

Yeah, this financial freedom lifestyle is sounding more and more like a complicated and unstable full-time job with none of the benefits.

I'm low-key panicking thinking about all the Google sheets you even need to have to be compliant here.

It's impressive impressive that some people make it work for years, but they are not the majority.

And here's the twist.

Many nomads do settle down.

Sure.

Usually when they find affordable property or what seems to be the biggest reason, they fall in love.

That's actually kind of sweet.

What do you call that?

Like hobo love?

How did you two meet?

Well, he was a homeless vagabond sleeping in a hammock outside the hostel down the street, and I sold him coconuts every day so he didn't die of dehydration.

Oh, what a me cute.

Yeah.

These wanderers meet a local or a non-nomad on vacation and all of a sudden they rethink their wandering ways.

So they have to decide between their lifestyle and their heart.

Not a bad game plan either, honestly.

Getting married can certainly smooth out the visa situation.

Right.

And then you can explore another place after your divorce.

Oh, I mean, then you really see the world when you're dividing assets in different countries.

That's right.

I mean, the statistics are vague.

Like, there's no solid data.

But anecdotally, this love and relocation thing, it seems to happen most in Spain and Turkey.

Okay.

Romance hotspots.

So if you're looking for love, check out those parts of the world for some reason.

They're like digital hunter-gatherers who find a beach with coconuts, decent Wi-Fi.

And I don't know, a guy who owns a scooter and they're like, all right, fine.

This beach will do.

I'm staying.

We could reboot a classic with a modern twist and just call it eat love, put down a deposit.

I don't think I'd watch that.

Eat love, pray your relationship doesn't implode.

Right, right.

It does seem like a large portion of those who live this lifestyle are doing it to an end.

They're searching for something.

There's groups that travel together, picking up and leaving members along the way.

And then they eventually put roots down in one of the digital nomads' big five hubs, which are Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Mexico, Thailand, and Indonesia.

Oh, wow.

That's funny.

My producer, Gabriel, just moved to Portugal.

So are these big five spots supportive of this kind of immigration, or is it like, we tolerate it because you put money in, but everybody else hates you?

Yeah, I don't think so, but it depends on what the specific city's tourist economy is like.

There's this guy, Nick Hilden.

He was an early adopter of the digital nomad lifestyle, and he wrote an article in 2024 about where he was writing from at the time, which was Puerto Escondido, Mexico.

The piece was published everywhere from Al Jazeera to the LA Times, and then that city exploded like overflowing with remote workers.

Oh my gosh.

Okay, so booming the local economy.

Great, except Homeboy Dunn ruined his own city for himself and everyone else, though.

Puerto Natso Escondido, am I right?

Oh, God.

I mean, it took less than a year, and locals are displaced because rents there have skyrocketed.

Yeah.

The power grid's wheezing.

The plumbing is like, please, no more smoothies.

And locals are getting priced out of their own neighborhoods because the infrastructure just isn't built for a crazy influx of people.

Yeah, this is like an Airbnb apocalypse type situation.

I know.

And there's already rapid signs of gentrification and just general resentment from the locals there.

And it's not just Puerto Escondido.

It's happening in cities all over the world.

Medellín, Colombia, Ubid, Bali, Mexico City, and on and on.

So when enough nomads land in one place, it stops being charming and it just becomes disruptive.

Yeah, it's a big planet, folks.

You don't all need to be in the same three neighborhoods.

Right, right.

But some companies are investing in digital nomad hubs.

So there's real estate companies like Outsight and Rome, R-O-A-M, that have built out infrastructure already in Bali and Bulgaria to lure in this new class of nomadic professionals.

And then several countries like Croatia and Portugal, they're investing in development projects and visa programs to attract nomads.

It's so strange to invest in transients.

Digital nomads should not be thinking, where can I go?

But instead, Do I have any business setting up camp there at all?

I mean, exactly.

But digital nomads show up with dollars and laptops.

Yeah.

But then they hang around too long and they pass this like weird torch that turns whole neighborhoods into overpriced Instagram backdrops.

Like think the average wage in Mexico is about $45 a day.

But digital nomads come and they're dropping five times that on Beach View Airbnbs.

And they probably don't speak the language half the time, which I guess is good because no one can tell them how much they're being ripped off.

Right.

And the language barrier means they most likely don't follow local customs and may treat places like amusement parks, you know?

Like one local wrote, Puerto Escondido is not Disneyland.

Bali is not Burning Man.

You know, to be fair, not all digital nomads come with ignorance, but unfortunately, that's not the majority in many of these places.

So there's growing awareness about sustainable tourism and groups have popped up like SOS Puerto, which is fighting to preserve their community.

So what should aspiring nomads try to do better?

Because it sounds sounds like their intent is a little bit harmless, but their side effect is they end up ruining these nice cities and communities.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the most logical is go off the beaten path.

You know, stop crowding the same handful of hotspots.

You're just being different like everyone else.

I mean, don't shop at chains when you're abroad.

You know, instead opt for the bodega in town.

So you're contributing to the local economy.

And then basic things like reducing your waste, flying when only absolutely necessary, learn the language just a little, and just generally don't be an asshole.

Okay.

Locals are not resort staff.

They live there.

That's a really good point.

I do see videos all the time online, like on Reddit, where it's like a Thai person being like with there's a montage of tourists beating up police or getting punched or like beating up.

people or throwing food around.

And they're like, this is not a resort for you.

This is our country.

You're a guest here.

And it's very common to see videos like this.

I suppose digital nomad etiquette is something that should be taught for free.

There's a global economic shift.

As life in the West makes it harder to find housing, harder to find job security, harder to survive, the cost of living is going through the roof.

People are naturally going to opt out.

And I feel like we should just try to do that as gently as possible.

But don't take all that entitlement with you so your video goes virals.

You know, I mean, researchers call it liquid life.

So you're renting over buying, flexibility over stability, which all sounds modern and sleek sleek until cities are completely reinvented for this wandering class.

Brands are already catching on, though.

What do you mean brands are catching on?

There's developers in New York City that are building common goods rooms in apartment buildings.

So they're rooms like, like think vending machines, but they hold vacuums, printers, lamps.

In the UK, there's a library of things startup that's feeding off this liquid life.

You mean I can rent a vacuum, rent a printer, rent a lamp, and then just put it back later when I move to like Chile or whatever?

Yeah, that's what they're for.

So you don't own stuff anymore.

You're just renting your lifestyle.

It's fascinating.

It's a little dystopian somehow as an 80s kid.

Cities built not on belonging, but on borrowing things temporarily.

The whole thing is temporary.

Yeah.

And Japan Airlines now lets travelers rent clothes at their destination.

Whoa.

So no packing, no checked bag.

It lowers the plane's weight and turns packing a suitcase into a service job.

And there's tons of furnished apartment rentals I see catering to remote workers.

They're nomad ready by design.

I've seen that a bunch, actually.

Yeah.

I mean, and there's other things popping up too.

Estonia also has an e-residency program.

So no matter where you legally live, your business can live there.

So it sounds like it could get sketchy, but I'm guessing that they're trying to stay ahead of the game.

Yeah.

I mean, this is all so new, right?

So

people are figuring it out countries are figuring it out but health care is another big issue for the lifestyle 78 countries have universal health care go them that's a bonus for american nomads but depending where you are that health care the quality of it might not be what you're used to yeah but digital nomads they need global coverage so now there's new insurance plans popping up to fill in those gaps that's helpful though as in american i really just need health care where i don't lose my house if I get sick or hit by a car.

I imagine someday people will be covered all over the globe, except Americans maybe.

But what a future this is turning out to be.

My goodness.

Yeah.

And then there's banks like Wise and Monzo, and they're leading the way with borderless banking.

Yeah, I've used that.

Yeah, there's no foreign transaction fees and it's just online everything.

Yeah, I've gotten paid by a regular bank and they were like, yeah, it's a $2,000 conversion and transfer and this, that, the other thing fee.

And then I used WISE and they were like, yeah, it's 25 bucks for the same amount of money.

I was like, okay, okay.

Because they don't have brick and mortar.

Yeah, we use WISE to pay people who work for this show because it was like, it's either going to cost you hundreds of dollars every time and weird fees and exchange things and this and that and the other thing or WISE, which is like, all right,

it's just a completely different system.

You're right.

No brick and mortar, but also they're like, we're going to beat banks in this particular niche.

And they do.

What a sign of the changing times.

If it gets easier to make a steady income, every aspect of life, I guess that's why they call it liquid life or whatever, becomes more fluid.

I mean, for now, it's definitely the alternative, right?

It's not always affordable.

It's not always sustainable.

This lifestyle is completely romanticized, but people are working on improving all that.

I mean, I couldn't do it, but I do get it.

You know, if you're going to struggle anyway, a lot of people would rather do it in the sun.

I guess the fixed life is romanticized too.

I mean, a lot of people are just scraping by.

If only it were as simple as those Instagram ads, eh?

Yeah, right.

I mean if you want to be a digital nomad great but you need a real job with reliable income and you need to have a solid plan like you can't just show up somewhere i mean don't fall for the affiliate core scams or the fantasy that all your problems will dissolve when you delete your permanent address so maybe start small like redecorate get a new throw rug man i mean yeah maybe clean your disgusting apartment and see if that shakes things up a bit without torching your whole life.

So freedom might not be somewhere else.

It might just be redefining your home.

I see.

So yeah, buy a recliner, buy a freaking salt lamp, not a one-way ticket to Cambodia, and don't fall for the sunny beach bullshit.

Well, I have never felt less desire to travel in my life, Jessica.

Thank you for keeping us grounded.

Welcome.

And thanks, everyone, for listening.

Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to Jordan at JordanHarbinger.com.

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You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

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And we'll link to that in the show notes as well.

This show is created in association with Podcast One.

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tada Sedlaskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi.

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And we'll see you next time.

What happens when a billion-dollar platform is built on exploitation and no one's held accountable?

On episode 1143 of the Jordan Harbinger Show, Layla Mickelwaite reveals how she took on Pornhub, exposing how the site ignored abuse, evaded responsibility, and profited from real victims.

Assumption is the mother of all screw-ups.

How in the world was this happening on Pornhub?

Thinking about that, the idea that we're all assuming that this is legal, vetted, consensual material, because that was what they presented to the world.

And they spent millions of dollars on their PR campaigns.

Victims were reaching out and begging them to take these videos down.

This was destroying their lives.

Forced trafficking is force, fraud, coercion.

If you're under the age of 18 and you're using a commercial sex act, so if you're making money on that sex act that was induced by force or fraud or coercion, it's automatically trafficking.

It was shocking.

Why are you still doing business with a company that distributes rape videos to the world?

Pornhub is Jeffrey Epstein times a thousand.

They have the ability to stop it, to age verify, to make sure that somebody had to show an ID, to show their face, to consent verify before they could upload, and they chose not to.

And I still feel that justice fully served in this case looks like Hornhub does get shut down.

So they have had to take down 91% of the entire website.

When we're fighting trafficking, we have to increase risk, we have to eliminate profitability, but we also want to see policy put in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.

The thing is that I think people have to hear it.

And you actually have the power to stop it now.

The most chilling part isn't just what she uncovered.

it's the lengths they went to to try and silence her.

Don't miss episode 1143 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.