1171: Your Birthday Surprise Was Battery and Lies | Feedback Friday

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Welcome to Feedback Friday.

I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger.

As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my Broski and Linowski.

That one's pretty bad.

Gabriel Mazrahi.

I also like how you said my Broski and Linowski.

You doing okay over there?

I got sick, surprisingly.

I flew back from New York City, and I realized that nobody covers their mouth anymore when they cough.

I mean, full-grown-ass adults, especially men, are just like,

and I'm like, do you mind?

Like, there's other people that exist on the planet around you.

Or they'll sneeze.

And I'm just thinking, like, what happened because in the 90s my mom would have slapped me upside the head and everyone I know covered their mouth my three-year-old covers her mouth when she coughs and sneezes and these grown-ass men you know what it was though I noticed this I hate to say this and it's probably unfair the flight to New York a lot more people wear masks cover their mouth whatever if they're sick flight back to San Francisco nobody covering their mouth and

Here's my here's my theory.

Explain.

Yeah.

What's the takeaway here?

A lot of the people going to New York were from New York and they were in San Francisco on business.

And I feel like just looking at the people around me, and I'm only going to just leave that right there.

On the way back from New York, it was a lot of tech workers in San Francisco that were from here, like lived here.

And it was just a different type of person.

Like going there, there was just a wide variety of people that looked like they were going for business reasons and like younger folks and they were fine.

Coming back, it was like exclusively middle-aged schlubs who dressed like they had a name tag on a lanyard somewhere and they never never covered their mouth and they coughed and sneezed and it was just disgusting.

It was like being in a plane full of adult children.

It was so weird.

And they were all over.

And the woman next to me was like, are you kidding me?

I'm like, yeah, this guy, I can feel the sneeze come through between the seats.

It's just so disgusting.

And he was like, 60.

How did you grow up not having even just basic manners?

I don't know.

And right before you're going to Paris.

Yeah, so my sinuses are clogged.

I get sick for my kids here and there.

Sure, they can't help it.

They get all kinds of new stuff.

They bring it home.

This was definitely just like just some schmo who, you know, hasn't had a date in his entire life and puts his feet on the seat on an airplane.

He put his feet, you know, between the seats, there's an armrest.

He put his feet there.

I turn around and I was just like, no, sir.

No.

No.

No, that is not okay.

Like, I'm not going to like let that go or call the flight attendant.

I'm just going to turn around and be like, excuse me.

No, my elbow's touching your feet.

Wow, bold move.

Well, part of it is you look back and you see who it is.

And if it's like some giant person, you're like, hey, man, would you mind?

But if it's like some Shmo, you're like, dude, are you kidding?

I'm not here to handle this diplomatically.

You know, like, you don't look like you're going to have an explosive reaction.

I might have to say stuff of my own.

I just wanted to be on a TikTok video right now.

Yes, exactly.

Like, look, it depends.

I don't want to scare anyone.

I don't want to scare like a teenage girl who puts her feet there.

She's just, you know, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not a jerk.

But if you're an adult male, like, yes, you are getting the stink eye and I'm telling you that you can't do that.

I'm telling you this in a way that you will feel ashamed because you should know better and your mother should have told you this literally 50 years ago jordan harbins are laying down the law at 30 000 feet i it's just but who who are these people seriously like you know you're like the people who cut their toenails on the plane no stop it okay you're disgusting i've never seen someone clip their toenails on a flight yeah because you know that there's like that distinctive sound that it's the only thing that it could be is somebody cutting toenails have you actually seen someone do that yes on an airplane Not this particular flight, but yeah, I heard someone cutting their nails.

In the cabin.

In the cabin.

Yes.

No.

I've seen it more than once.

Once was a woman, and she was fine because it was like she was catching them and like putting them in a little Kleenex.

And I was like, all right, whatever.

No, that's still unacceptable.

It was, it was like not the place that I would do it, but it was like fine.

It was her fingernails.

She probably, who knows?

Maybe she broke a nail and she had to do that.

I don't know.

Okay, fine.

That's just one little.

I've seen men like cutting their disgusting Nita Sandblaster toenails

on the tray table, which, by the way, that's why you don't use the tray table.

You disinfect that.

This is more horrifying than the coughing.

I agree.

Yeah.

Because now you're talking about fungal infections that are just going to be on your panini breath.

I'm shocked at it.

Later on, if you don't put something down on the table.

Yeah, you don't want to eat the hummus tray off of that thing after somebody tries to clip their toenails.

But why are people giving themselves a pedicure?

Yeah.

No, it's not.

On an Alaska Airlines flight.

No, yeah, to be fair, it wasn't Alaska.

This is Virgin Atlantic where I saw that.

And I remember that because I remember the purple lighting, you know?

Yep.

And you're just like, the perfect shade for watching somebody.

Yeah, for watching somebody clip their toenails.

You know, the other gross, I think I've said this on the show before, I can't remember.

The other grossest thing that I've seen on the plane, this perfectly nice woman, again, to and from San Francisco, she was talking with me and Jen, and she gets one of those like little wrap sandwiches.

I don't know if she brought it from the airport, I can't remember, or if she bought it from the plane, but it was like one of those wraps that's in a tortilla and it's got like salad and chicken in or whatever she pulls the tray table down and just puts the bare wrap no plate no plastic no nothing just on the tray table and i'm like do you think that that is disinfected after each flight do you think that that's clean at all I couldn't stop looking like every time she'd pick it up and put her down just raw dog in the middle just raw dog in the plastic put the patini in her mouth take a bite put it back down and I just I couldn't even focus on what she was saying I have no idea all I remember is her just bite bite back down on the tray table back up and I'm just thinking like there was a man cutting his toenails on a flight before this and just piling up his fungus nails in the middle of that tray table.

That's like one step away from drinking the top water in every third world country you visit just to like diversify your microbiome so you're immune from various illnesses.

I honestly think that eating off of a tray table, that's worse than eating off of like a fast food table at a restaurant because at least they're disinfecting the theoretically disinfecting those you know people there before were eating i don't even know it's like right there with like i'm just gonna raw dog it at mcdonald's put my burger right on the table it's just so gross who are these people how do you not think of this stuff or am i a germaphobe that's what i want to know are we the weirdos or are we correct here i mean we're definitely weirdos but uh

i don't know i don't know what's acceptable anymore what were we even talking about i think we were saying that on the jordan harbinger show we decode the stories secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

Like not eating off of a tray table.

Yes, that is wisdom that I didn't think I would have to impart on anyone.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker.

During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, organized crime figures, rocket scientists, CEOs, arms dealers, and drug traffickers.

This week, we had Gareth Gore, author of Opus, The Cult of Dark Money, Human Trafficking, and Right-Wing Conspiracy Inside the Catholic Church.

Gareth wrote this expose about the members of Opus Day, which, if you don't know what that is, it's this ultra-conservative Catholic sect.

It's very secretive, how they push their radical agenda within the church and around the globe using billions of dollars siphoned from one of the world's largest banks.

Fascinating conversation.

This cult was also in the Da Vinci Code.

Whenever I tell people about this episode, they're like, hey, man, have you heard the Da Vinci Code?

You read that book?

It's that cult.

It's a glimpse into a very dark and complicated underworld.

And I think that you guys will really dig it.

On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, play ridiculous sound bites that 98% of you can't get enough of, and 2% of you absolutely cannot stand, and still email us about.

And generally, we saute ourselves in the hot springs of your scalding life drama until our doozy fingers are nice and pruny.

As always, we've got some fun ones and some doozies, and I can't wait to dive in.

Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

So, just a heads up, this one involves some kind of intense sexual stuff.

So, if you're driving your kids to school or something, just keep that in mind.

Maybe jump to a question too.

Dear Jordan and Gabe, just over a week ago on the afternoon of my 39th birthday, I was heading home for what was supposed to be a cozy evening with my spouse, our toddler, and my favorite takeout.

I remember smiling and thinking to myself, crap, this is probably the happiest birthday I can remember having for a while.

Hang on a second.

Since this is Feedback Friday,

I feel like I'm just going to go ahead and assume that this was not, in fact, the happiest birthday that she had in a while.

That is a wise assumption.

Then I got a frantic call from my husband.

He had just received word from a detective in a local special victims unit stating that he had been accused of sexual assault and that he was to report to her at a specified time and date to be placed under arrest and charged.

I've known him for over eight years and he sounded scared and devastated in a way I'd never heard before.

He frantically professed that he hadn't done anything wrong, that he had no idea where this accusation was coming from.

Later in the evening, my husband's amnesia subsided, and he started recalling an incident where he and a friend double-teamed a female colleague almost 20 years ago.

But he said the encounter was consensual.

I love that she wrote double-team, so that means they had a threesome for those in our show, fam, who are pure of heart.

Pure.

Yeah.

I was and still am confused as to how my husband could go from having no idea who was accusing him of sexual assault or why to recalling a consensual sexual encounter from many years ago a few hours later.

Doesn't quite add up for me.

Naturally, the shock is overwhelming.

I still can't process this.

The only facts I've gotten so far from my husband's lawyer are that this allegation is stemming from a he said, she said situation with a colleague when he was 19, long before he and I ever got together.

The following day, my husband came home from work and admitted to sexual misconduct with his accuser, but not rape.

He admitted to putting his penis on the complainant's face in response to her throwing up in his bed after a night of parting.

Jeez, ugh, okay.

Sounds very frat bro, at best, and definitely not okay.

But he maintains that the three-way, which was with this same woman and that male colleague of theirs, was consensual.

When I pressed my husband to tell me if there were any other skeletons in his closet, he admitted that he got word that he has an estranged child from a one-night stand during a vacation before he and I got together.

But he doesn't know for sure.

I couldn't bring myself to ask for more information in that moment as I was nauseous with anxiety and terror.

Understandable, but I have so many questions.

Yeah, like if somebody comes to you and says that you had a child from a one-night stand a long time ago, he doesn't know for sure, but like, did he not want to know?

And also, do you not go, oh my gosh, wife, I just got the craziest call.

Let's talk about this.

You don't go, I don't want to tell anybody about this ever.

No one's going to find out.

How could that possibly happen?

So many, so many questions.

As the afternoon went on, I tried my best to stay busy by cleaning the house until it was time to go and pick up our child, who's on the autism spectrum from daycare.

Needless to say, the home was tense.

Once our child was home, my husband and I tried our best to act normally and stay composed.

The evening went okay, all things considered, and then it was finally time for the bath and bed routine.

My child can get extremely agitated, and when he's tired, the tantrums are exponentially worse.

That night, he was literally impossible.

In the past, when he's like this, and it feels necessary, both my husband and I have spanked our child, without excessive force, of course, to get him to regulate, refocus himself, and or help him snap out of a fixation or tantrum.

Okay.

After we finished bathing our toddler, my husband and I were in his room putting on his jammies.

His irate behavior escalated, and I spanked him, as both of us would normally do in any scenario like this one.

Before I could even process that I'd spanked my child, I found myself on the floor against the corner of a wall on the opposite side of the room.

My husband responded to me spanking our child by aggressively throwing me across our child's bedroom.

I was terrified.

It caused all sorts of painful bruises that are still visible and sore as I type this 10 days later.

Oh my gosh, that is, that is intense.

I called the police and had my husband arrested and charged for assaulting me.

Wow, what a day.

So much has happened.

I'm not even trying to make light of it.

There's just so much going on here.

Jeez.

Where we live, a person accused of domestic violence cannot contact the complainant in any way or come near the family home until the court proceedings are concluded or a bail variation is requested.

The no contact order remains in place so that I can process and heal from everything that's happened.

Our child now has to live without his dad until I request otherwise, but I do allow visits anytime it's requested.

This is the only time my husband has ever physically assaulted me, and he's an adequate parent.

My My kid hasn't asked for him once in 10 days, but appeared happy to see him after their visit a few days ago.

My husband has, however, been financially and emotionally abusive for the past five years.

If he had done his best to be a good husband, I would be knocking on any and every door to help clear his good name.

But I do not feel this man has any honor to defend at this point.

Now my husband might be going to prison and or facing a hefty financial penalty and sex offender status.

We have to spend money we don't have on legal costs related to defending this jerk's lies and poor impulse control.

I also feel pressured to help him beat his domestic assault charge.

I imagine it's not a great look if, during his court proceedings, it becomes known that he's been convicted of domestic assault against his wife.

So, this is interesting.

This can go either way.

Quick aside, under U.S.

law and many state laws, a prosecutor cannot introduce prior bad acts or charges simply to show that a defendant is a bad person or has a criminal disposition or whatever.

Of course, this is in the interest of having a fair trial, right?

If somebody has a bunch of stuff they did 10 years ago, what you don't want is the prosecutor saying, look at all this bad stuff he did 10 years ago because it has nothing to do with whether they did the thing they're doing now.

Generally speaking, you cannot bring up charges from an unrelated case in a trial, but prior conduct can be mentioned if it's directly relevant to the case.

For example, to show motive, intent, modus operandi, and stuff like that.

But it's up to the judge.

They get to decide whether to allow limited evidence of a prior act.

Hard to say if that would happen in your husband's case, domestic violence and sexual assault.

Somewhat related, so it's not impossible, but who knows?

And I don't want to go into the weeds on this, but this gets tricky and there's a lot of discretion involved here.

It also would not be beneficial for our child for my husband to face a hefty fine or prison time.

I would be willing to do what I can to help once he completes a court-accredited 12-week support program, and if he continues to uphold his financial responsibilities while we're separated.

I'm now scrambling to find clarity, validation, and guidance, anything to help with the crippling pain and anxiety I feel right now.

I've also reached out to a trusted therapist for support.

Am I crazy for being extremely upset about the sexual assault?

Am I crazy for being upset about finding out about all of this only after marrying the bastard?

Am I crazy for not wanting to help him beat the domestic assault charge at this moment?

Is it selfish and or crazy that I'm not putting the best interest of my child over my own interests.

Am I crazy for being open to giving this marriage another shot if my husband fulfills his financial obligations, continues to be a good father, and completes that program?

Do you feel there's any hope for our marriage to get to a good place after all this?

Or should I just dump him and keep the no contact thing going for as long as I can?

Signed, trying to make it last, given this unsettling past.

Oh boy.

Okay, well,

this story is very tragic.

There's so much going on here.

First of all, I can only imagine how disturbing all of this must be, how destabilizing to learn that your husband might have raped someone in his past, that he likely maybe has a child with another person that he hid from you.

We don't know all the details or circumstances here, but regardless, this is very painful stuff.

It's funny/slash interesting, Gabe.

I had a recurring nightmare a few years back that I had a child that I didn't know about.

And I woke up and my first instinct was to say, Jen, I'm having this crazy recurring nightmare that I had a kid from when I lived in Panama and I just never knew about it.

And she's like, Well, if you didn't know about it, you know, that's crazy.

It's unlikely.

And I was like, Would you be super mad?

She's like, No, it's not your fault.

So, my first instinct was, Better tell my wife about this thing that, and this is a dream.

And if I actually got the call, I'd be like, Honey, you have to come home right now.

I got to talk to you.

The last thing I would do is be like, Well, I can't see a scenario in which my wife would ever find out about this, so I'm just not going to say anything.

Come on, man.

Even if it turns out that he's not the father,

like he's hiding something something potentially huge from her, and it fits with a number of other facts that he's obscuring.

So dodgy.

You are not the guy!

But that's the thing.

I had to.

But then to get into this altercation at home, to be thrown against a wall, have the police come.

I mean,

so intense.

So intense.

You didn't deserve that.

I'm very sorry it all happened.

Gabe, before we dive into all of her questions, I feel the need to talk about her son.

It's really...

Yeah, the spanking, you mean, right?

Yes.

Look, I don't know firsthand what it's like to have to manage a child with special needs.

I don't have a clue.

And I feel a little bad for jumping into this part first because she's been through a lot, and I don't mean to lecture her about her parenting on top of all this, but we've done research on this before.

And spanking an autistic child, any child, actually, that's just, it's not the way to do it.

She said they only do it when it feels necessary, but like, how do you define necessary?

When he's resisting you and you decide it's necessary?

And what impact is that having on him?

God knows.

I mean, I'm no expert either, but autistic children often have heightened sensory sensitivity, right?

So, being spanked, I don't know.

Maybe it seems to shock him into refocusing, but I imagine that could also be very distressing to a child like this, not to mention, you know, painful and confusing coming from your parents.

Yeah, I'm just very concerned that this spanking is leaving him with some kind of trauma.

And I know you say it's not excessive.

I totally believe you, but what you perceive as mild, that might be overwhelming and dysregulating and confusing for a child who's on the spectrum.

Now, we know that there's no evidence of any benefit from spanking kids.

We've talked about this on the show before.

We've consulted subject matter experts.

We've done the homework.

But we also couldn't find any credible evidence that spanking helps autistic children snap out of meltdowns, fixations, and dysregulation.

Those behaviors are generally not willful defiance.

They're often signs of overload and unmet needs.

The studies that we've read, unfortunately, show that spanking is associated with more aggression, more anxiety, you know, oppositional behavior, poor emotional regulation.

Which children with autism might already struggle with.

Yeah, I mean, it can reinforce fear.

It can increase the shutdowns and outbursts.

But I think most importantly, it can damage the trust in the caregiver relationship, which I'm sure is the one thing you want to preserve the most.

Right.

So I think we'd be remiss if we didn't help you see that.

And my advice there is stop the spanking immediately.

Start reading up on non-punitive, structured behavioral strategies like applied behavior analysis, pivotal response therapy, sensory breaks.

The consensus seems to be that you want to understand the function of the behavior and meet the child where they are, not punish the expression of distress or dysregulation.

Okay, all that said, are you crazy for being extremely upset about the sexual assault?

No, you're not crazy to be upset about this.

It's an upsetting thing to learn, no matter what the circumstances were, no matter what the outcome is.

Now, whether that means your husband truly assaulted this woman, I'm talking about the evening of the group thing, not the drunken bed thing, which definitely sounds, again, not okay, but whether he and his friend actually did rape her, that's a separate question.

It doesn't sound good.

And given the other things your husband is hidden from you, let's just say this is a hard person to root for right now.

But to be fair, we don't have all the facts.

It's been 20 years since the incident.

He was 19 then.

He's like almost 40 now.

Come on.

Even he might not remember it perfectly.

both because it was a long time ago and because it sounds like there was quite a bit of alcohol involved in that relationship generally.

We know nothing about this woman, their relationship, what went down, any of that.

So for our purposes, it might be helpful to try to separate whether your husband is guilty of this crime from your feelings about this turn of events.

I can imagine it would bring up a lot for you, even if your husband didn't assault this woman.

And my stance is, yes, it's fair to be freaking out about it.

I mean, the legal headache alone.

Now, are you crazy for being upset about finding out about all of this only after marrying him?

Well, again, there are some nuances here.

If your husband did rape this woman, then I understand why it's so upsetting to learn about later.

If he didn't do this crime, if he's being falsely accused or there's some ambiguity here, then it gets a little murkier for me.

I guess my question for you is, did you guys agree to talk about your full sexual histories before you settled down?

Did he lie?

Did you tell him everything about your past?

You know, I'm not sure that there's a tacit obligation to tell a partner about everyone you slept with before you met.

But again, I understand why this is extra disturbing given the allegation.

Now, are you crazy for not wanting to help him beat the domestic assault charge?

Honestly, I'm confused here.

It sounds like you are too.

On one hand, you're saying this man doesn't have any honor to defend at this point, and I'm keeping the no contact order, and you are the one who called the police on him.

On the other hand, you're saying that you're going to spend money on a lawyer and you don't want the domestic violence charge to play a role in his sexual assault case.

And complicating matters further is that for all your husband's flaws, he had never physically assaulted you.

This was the first time.

And it was on the day he learned about the charge.

Your son was acting out.

Tensions were running high, to put it mildly.

And now, to be crystal clear, because people are getting angry right now, I am not excusing what he did.

It is awful.

It is domestic violence.

But what you're saying is that this was unusual behavior for him.

Although I hear you that he financially and emotionally abused you for years, what that actually means, how severe it was, I'm not clear on that, but I'll, of course, take your word for it.

So I guess my feeling here is you're not crazy for not wanting to help him beat a domestic violence charge.

He's not giving you a ton of reasons to rally behind him, but I do think that your conflict and your confusion are making it hard to act totally consistently here.

And I can't say I entirely blame you for that.

This is a mess.

But I think once you land on a clear stance on your husband, what he deserves, what your relationship should be, you'll know whether to help him with this particular problem.

As for your son, are you selfish and or crazy for not putting his best interests above your own?

Again, this is very confusing to me.

You said that your husband is an adequate parent, high praise, but then he's spanking your son too, which you already know how I feel about that.

You also said that your son didn't ask about him once over these 10 days, but he did seem happy to see his dad at their visit.

Now, your son's on the spectrum, so maybe it's hard to know what to make of these data points, and your son is still a toddler, so he can't say, I want daddy around, or I don't like when daddy's here.

I just want it to be you and me.

I don't know.

But in general, if your husband is a safe parent to him and a safe co-parent to you, then it would be ideal for your son to have both his parents in the picture.

But I guess my question for you is, what are your son's best interests really?

Is your husband a positive presence for him right now?

Does your husband's past, however that shakes out, change that?

And how does the tension and conflict in the home affect your son?

Are you able to parent him on your own?

You seem to be implying that your son would be better off with his dad in the picture, but you can't tolerate that right now, which I understand.

But I don't actually know if that's the case.

So it's hard to know for sure if you're really being selfish or crazy, to use your words.

Jordan, I think we have to pause for a moment and just acknowledge that almost all of her questions are about whether she's crazy for feeling a certain way or making a certain decision.

Yeah, she's very concerned about that, but I don't know what she means exactly.

Right.

I mean, I know it's an expression.

Am I crazy for, you know, whatever, fill in the blank?

But I also wonder if she's kind of really asking us, am I crazy?

Like, am I nuts right now?

And the answer is, I don't know, maybe a little bit in the sense that you are very overwhelmed and turned around right now, and you might not feel like you have the best grip on things, which given the circumstances is completely understandable.

Again, these are not small discoveries.

These are potentially life-changing revelations, one after the other.

So I don't blame you for being a little bit overwhelmed.

But when you say, am I crazy?

I also wonder if you're also asking, is it okay for me to feel this way?

Is it okay for me to take this position?

Like you said earlier, you're looking for clarity, guidance, and validation.

It sounds to me like you want some permission to just have an authentic reaction to this objectively insane stuff that you're going through, just a basic right to take a strong stance of your own.

Yeah, she's talking about her basic right to have her own experience here.

Exactly.

That version of am I crazy, the one that means, am I allowed to?

Like, am I allowed to be angry?

Am I allowed to be devastated?

Am I allowed to tell my husband that I need some space?

That is a quality that seems to be separate from everything that's going on with your husband.

And I'm sure it predates him.

So let's keep going, Jordan.

We can keep answering her questions, but underneath all these questions is this more fundamental one.

And the answer is yes.

Of course, you're allowed to have these feelings and consider these options, but that is a muscle you're going to have to develop on your own through this experience.

Right.

We can't give her that confidence ourselves.

But I think what you're also bringing up is, does struggling to fully own these feelings and decisions, does that also play a role in the dynamic with her husband?

Does it play a role in how she responds to her son?

Right.

Does it play a role in why a lot of her actions and instincts seem to kind of be at odds with each other?

Yeah, look, I think the answer is yes, because if she doesn't even know if she's allowed to, say, be furious at her husband or put herself first or risk disappointing her son, then how is she supposed to make the right call?

It begins with just feeling the feelings, knowing hers are as valid as his.

So the $64,000 question, are you crazy for being open to giving this marriage another shot?

I wouldn't say crazy, but given everything that's gone down, I can't say I fully endorse it.

You need to really sit with this question for a while.

I'm actually a little surprised that you feel the need to make it now.

I mean, it's only been 10 days since not one, but two bombs have been dropped in the middle of your life.

You guys got in this altercation.

It's 10 days, the bruises are literally still visible.

You just found out that he might have raped someone, that he might have another child out there that he didn't tell you about after years of dysfunction and mistreatment.

So I'm sorry to repeat myself, but again, I'm confused.

Why are we talking about getting back together?

Well, this might be another manifestation of the can I have my own experience thing, but I'm also thinking about that thing she said before.

You know, she said, I'm scrambling to find clarity, validation, and guidance, anything to help with the crippling pain and anxiety I feel right now.

That's right.

So, she's in a lot of distress and she just kind of wants it to end, which I can relate to that.

Yeah, what could be more normal?

But jumping straight to, well, maybe we can work it out and give it another shot, I suspect that that is one way to put an end to that pain and anxiety, which are symptoms not just of the very upsetting things she's she's learned about her husband, but of the uncertainty that they bring up, right?

So I get the sense that it's very difficult for her to tolerate those feelings and she's looking for a way out of them.

And the most obvious one might be to give her marriage another shot.

Right.

When the best thing she can do right now is what we talk about quite a bit, which is sit with these distressing feelings and learn to live with them just a little more.

That's it.

That's like 80% of her job right now.

This is the kind of pain that drives people to discover meditation, that forces them to learn what it means to surrender, because it's just so freaking insane and you can't control it.

And I think that capacity goes hand in hand with being secure and having your own experience because, like, how can you have your own experience if you can't even bear the feelings associated with it, you know?

Yeah, also, you need to see how your husband navigates all this, how he treats you, how he treats his son, how the investigation goes, whether he throws himself into this support group, whether he goes to therapy.

You just need a lot more data before you can make the right call about your marriage.

But even if he navigates all this perfectly, whatever that looks like, you guys would still need to do a ton of work together, separately to heal these wounds, to rewrite these patterns, to find your way back to each other, to consider a very different model for your relationship.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it's going to be hard.

And this is just a lot to come back from.

An alleged assault, a possible secret love child, potential prison time, a questionable parenting style, other forms of abuse.

What did she say?

Emotional and financial abuse?

I don't know, man.

Yes, he could use these experiences to evolve dramatically it's extremely rare but it does happen but you'd still have to be able to forgive him you'd still have to be able to live with these facts the implications and that's just it's asking a lot so no i don't have high hopes for your marriage but that's up to you guys largely up to him i'd say given that he's made such a mess of things but that doesn't mean you need to dump him or that you can't ever have contact with this guy again You're going to have to hang in this for a little while.

Make these decisions as the picture becomes clearer.

You have some good reasons to stay away right now.

You also have some good reasons to get to a place where you have a functional co-parenting relationship with strong boundaries, but that is a process, not a destination.

So throw yourself into this therapy that you're doing.

Take good care of your son.

He's at the top of the list of priorities right now, of course, which means please stop spanking him.

That's just not helping anybody.

Watch how your husband handles all this.

Take his words and actions at face value.

Stay grounded in your experience of all this.

And trust that if you move through this in the right way you'll know what decision to make and or the decision will be made for you based on how all this drama shakes out as strange as it sounds there might not ultimately be a ton for you to do right now other than taking care of your side of the street sending you a hug and wishing you all the best all right now it's time for a consensual menage a trois of our own you me and some spanking good deals on the fine products and services that support this show we'll be right back this episode is brought to you by Progressive Commercial Insurance.

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Now, back to Feedback Friday.

Okay, what's next?

Hello to my favorite hippie Grandpa Gabe and my tolerable crazy uncle Jordan.

Tolerable, high praise.

Is that a callback to the uncle at Thanksgiving you put up with who's railing about some weird opinion?

Is that what that is?

Yeah, or like, he was an adequate parent.

Okay.

My good friend Mike is dealing with a former roommate, Sam, who's really out to get him.

He moved out because this guy was generally being kind of crazy.

I was friends with both of them, so I've heard a lot from both sides.

Sam has accused Mike of lying to him on multiple occasions, recording a conversation without his consent, which is legal in Texas where we live.

making fun of his height in an argument they had, recording him watching porn, which he has no proof of, and intending to blackmail him, which I'm not sure why Mike would do that because Sam is totally broke, not apologizing for anything, and finally moving some valuable books he had and slightly damaging them when they were moving out.

Mike is one of my best friends and I know all of his former roommates.

These things are just not in character for Mike.

He's a super considerate guy, maybe the most considerate I know.

He's even apologized to me for little things that I wasn't even offended about.

He had very valid explanations for all of these accusations.

For example, he recorded a few of their conversations when things got bad because he wanted to have evidence that he wasn't the crazy one.

Meanwhile, Sam has depression, which he talks about constantly.

He's talked about suicidal ideation at length, though never in terms of having a plan.

He was seeing a counselor for a while, but he didn't want to open up about the suicidal ideation, so he stopped going.

He often reaches out with what seem like attention-seeking texts like, I'm done with church, I'm just gonna move away, I'm gonna disappear, etc.

I've told him over and over again that he needs therapy, but he just keeps insisting that he's too broke and gets mad at me.

I don't have his new address, or I would have called for a wellness check.

Sam is now seeking to have Mike put under church discipline.

This is a big deal, as our church is very close, and to remove someone from membership due to unrepentant sin would be us saying that we're not confident that they're a believer.

They would likely leave the church altogether, which would mean losing a really close church family.

I referred Sam to one of my pastors to start the official process, even though I think his claims are bogus and it likely won't go anywhere, which I told him.

Why would you refer him to your pastor if you don't believe the accusations?

That's confusing to me.

Yeah, me too.

So my first thought is maybe if the church rules against him, it'll just put an end to all this because Sam can't argue with a major authority.

Yeah, also I don't get why he doesn't know the pastor if he's a member of that church, but whatever, it doesn't matter.

This just doesn't make a ton of sense to me somehow.

But I mean, that's my theory, but then the letter goes on.

I don't think Sam will stop smearing him if the church discipline process doesn't go his way.

So that's maybe even more confusing.

Yeah.

I also kind of worry it might get violent.

He doesn't seem to be violent generally, but he owns at least one gun.

Of course.

Yeah, that's scary.

Maybe more so in terms of his own danger to himself than to someone else, but still.

Should Mike file a restraining order?

Should he just ignore Sam, knowing his reputation will withstand a crazy guy making baseless claims?

Any Dark Jordan ideas?

Signed, keeping at Bay, an ex-Roomie who's Cray.

Oof, a bit of a heavy one.

Well, first of all, sorry you're caught in the middle between two friends here.

That's not fun.

Although it does sound like Mike is probably not the problem, still, it's hard to hear from somebody who's clearly in pain and then just won't/slash can't get help and who seems to be spiraling.

It's also kind of scary.

I mean, he's talking about hurting himself.

He has a gun.

He's getting more and more desperate.

So should Mike file a restraining order?

I'm not sold on it.

Look, in Texas, to get a protective order, you have to show that family violence, dating violence, stalking, sexual assault, threats of imminent harm have occurred or are likely to occur.

You didn't mention any of that in your letter.

The only element that might warrant concern is the fact that he owns a gun and is threatening suicide.

But again, that's dangerous to him, not to Mike.

If I were Mike, what I'd do regardless is start documenting everything: texts, calls, emails, DMs, in-person conversations, secondhand reports.

If Sam escalates, if he shows up somewhere uninvited, if he threatens Mike with violence, if he sends explicit blackmail messages, anything like that, then Mike should consider a protective order and he would have a much easier time getting it with that documentation.

Until then, the best thing he can do is stay away.

Just stay neutral, move on with his life, don't engage with Sam.

Don't feed the drama.

Definitely don't retaliate.

Even with this whole church investigation unfolding, if Mike starts defending himself to every person Sam talks to, it just, it gives Sam oxygen.

It gives the whole thing air.

What he can do and what you can help with is just quietly maintain his credibility.

If I were Mike, I would just keep being the guy who's chill, kind, helpful, open, doesn't fuel the drama, apologizes when needed.

This just goes a long way, especially in a tight-knit community like yours.

I'm not sure how formal or extensive this discipline process is, but it sounds like it's not going to go very far, given given Sam's credibility or lack thereof.

And it sounds like they are going to actually investigate it, not just be like, well, this guy did this bad thing, so we're going to kick you out.

That doesn't sound like how this process goes.

So they're going to find nothing.

And the best thing Mike can do is participate with humility and transparency and offer the discipline committee that documentation.

If he has it, I'm sure any rational person will interview him and then just get a picture of what's going on, just like you have right now.

The more public and formal Sam makes this, the more likely it is that he's just going to discredit himself in the process.

Honestly, I don't know if this situation calls for any Dark Jordan ideas.

Mike is just not there yet.

One dark-ish thing, even gray thing he could do is reach out to the most influential people at your church one by one.

I would call them on the phone and I would just say, hey, so this is what's happening with my old roommate, Sam.

I'm just really concerned about this guy.

I'm not sure what to do.

Do you have any advice?

Clever.

In fact, I would probably slow play it.

I'd say, like, can I come over and talk to you?

I'll keep it short.

It's very personal.

And they'll be like, of course, because, you know, church people, close community, go to their house and be like, I'm concerned about this guy.

Do you have any advice?

That gives Mike even more perspectives and it wins him some important allies because, look, asking someone for advice about a problem like this, they're going to almost certainly be on your side.

And then those people will also be primed to view Sam's accusations in a certain light when they hear that.

Man, yeah, that is clever.

I like that a lot.

I'm still thinking about that detail we talked about a moment ago, how you referred Sam to one of your pastors to start the disciplinary process.

I know you said it probably won't go anywhere.

You told him that, but I'm just still kind of scratching my head.

Again, maybe you wanted him to hear from a much more influential source, like, hey, man, you need to drop this.

None of this happened or it's not as bad as you think.

Just move on, which I guess I can understand why that would be useful.

But I also wonder if you were maybe outsourcing to the church a message that you could have given Sam yourself.

Yeah, or maybe he was trying to stay on good terms with both Mike and Sam because Sam's nuts nuts and this is a way of throwing Sam a bone or something.

It could be.

I mean, maybe if you didn't appease him, he would have turned his sights on you, which is a bit scary to think about.

Or maybe you were worried that he would hurt himself because nobody took him seriously or whatever.

But given the facts here, it really does sound like Sam is going off the rails and Mike is largely, if not entirely, in the clear.

And maybe Sam needs to hear some difficult news delivered kindly from another friend.

I'm worried about you.

I'm not sure this really adds up.

I don't think this is something you should pursue.

This might might be a case where gently standing up to Sam or just quietly pulling away and staying out of this completely would have been appropriate and potentially more helpful because now you've helped an unstable person.

nurse these grievances even longer and you've allowed him to drag your friend through this annoying and stressful process.

So I'm just not sure whom this serves.

Yeah, I tend to agree.

I think Sam is in trouble and needs help.

Whether he gets that help, whether he's the kind of person who can even make use of it, TBD on that, I suppose, but that's his business.

Our friend here has done more than enough the best thing mike can do is protect himself stay away and move on good luck you can reach us friday at jordanharbinger.com please keep your emails concise try to use descriptive subject lines that makes our job a whole lot easier if you're finding dead squirrels in your mailbox your stepdad's got your nudes your neighbors are eavesdropping on your therapy sessions through the wall or your brother has falsely accused your mother of heinous crimes and alienated you making you question whether to procreate at all whatever's got you staying up at night lately hit us up friday at jordanharbinger.com We are here to help and we keep every email anonymous.

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What's next?

Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've known my elderly neighbor, Helen, for over eight years.

Two years ago, her roommate passed away, and we got really close.

Because she has no living family, she's become our family, and my three small children consider her to be their grandma.

That is beautiful.

How sweet is that?

So cute.

Helen is a delight to us, and knowing we only have a few more years with her, we've put off moving away.

Another reason we've hesitated to move away is that Helen has told us she wants us to have her house when she passes away.

While this made me uncomfortable at first, I've since realized that it would be an incredible blessing to our family.

Although I hope that doesn't happen soon.

Last year, Helen broke her hip, so we go over there regularly to help her with things like laundry and showering.

While she was in physical rehab, she met a couple.

Let's call them Jack and Jill.

Jack and Jill have been incredibly generous with their time and money since she's been out of rehab.

In fact, they've been so generous with their time that Helen confides to me often about how she can't get them to go home.

or stop them from frequently dropping by.

They've been so generous with their money that they've gotten a large TV and new phone for Helen, even though she doesn't know how to use them, and told me she wishes she had her old TV that she was used to.

Oh boy, I think I see where this is going.

I'd like to think that Jack and Jill have wonderful intentions, but sometimes it feels like they get off on helping people and have turned Helen into a pet project.

They want to declutter and fix up her house, which she doesn't.

They've bought her a laptop and other gadgets that she has no use for.

And stranger still, they have very obviously tried to copy and paste the relationship Helen has with my children for themselves.

After we had only met them in person once, Jill told me that she was to be called Auntie Jill.

Cringe.

Why do I get the feeling that Jill's Safari history is full of Zillow listings?

Yeah.

It's hard to describe my gut feeling, but I've trusted it and set boundaries to keep some distance between them and my children.

Helen's assets and power of attorney previously went to an ex-boyfriend, who still keeps in contact and runs errands for her.

Jack is very knowledgeable with finances, so he helped Helen go to the attorney and rewrite her will.

Whoa.

From what I understand, Jack is now in charge of distributing her wealth when she passes away.

I wonder what the timeline is between him becoming in charge of distributing her assets, changing the will, and them being like, let's fix up and declutter this house that we're definitely not taking from you after you pass away.

Oh, God, I didn't even connect those dots.

Yeah, the bathroom needs to be renovated.

We'll just pay for that.

No problem.

Don't worry about it.

Let's get out in front of this stuff before it becomes a headache.

Yeah, for us, yeah.

Let's oh, we'll take three years, remodel the whole thing, get rid of all your stuff, and then when you croak, we'll be moved in in a week.

Come on, I mean, look, maybe I'm too cynical, but man, that's just a Chinese military parade full of red flags so far.

For this reason, I now have some incentive to not get on Jack's bad side since I'm unsure of his power in the situation.

Then, recently, Jack put up a camera in Helen's living room.

Hold up,

visited, there was a new camera, and Helen didn't even know about it.

When she brought it up to Jack, he told her she can cover it when I come to visit, but he's worried about her ex.

And so, for her safety, she needs the camera.

Okay, again, Jack and Jill might actually be trying to protect Helen here, but this is so very sus.

The fact that he's now the executive of her estate and whatever, that's one giant red flag, but also like, oh, I'll just swap the cameras out because I couldn't get Nest working, so I've got a simply safe in there that I can monitor your living room with.

Dude, cover it when the guests come over.

No, dude, what is wrong with you?

Just don't put it there if I don't want it.

It's not your house.

Yeah.

I mean, dude, even in a world where you meet a sweet old lady in rehab and you bond with her and you genuinely want to help her.

Okay, if you found out that she already had an adoptive family living next door, wouldn't you go to those people like, hey, we really like Helen.

We want to make sure she's being taken care of.

Are you guys involved in that?

Like, what are you doing?

How can we help?

How do we fit in?

Right.

100%.

It sounds like these people swooped in and then changed a bunch of things, and then they're sidelining our friend here, which is so weird.

Like, yeah, if I found out somebody, even in my own elderly, distant family, had a nice family next door, I'd be like, hey, here's my number.

Call me if you need anything.

Thanks for keeping an eye on her.

By the way, I'm going to be getting the mail, so don't freak out if there's no mail, you know, and I'm taking her to the lawyer, blah, blah, blah.

Like, this is just not that.

Right.

They swooped in, they decided to do their thing.

And yes, it's possible the ex was stealing from her.

It happens all all the time.

It might be happening right here, but it still kind of begs the question, what's it to these people?

Like, why do you care so much?

Exactly.

If they weren't benefiting in some way, again, I have a hard time believing they're doing all of this out of the kindness of their hearts.

So she goes on, I feel very uncomfortable with Jack and Jill, although it does seem like Jack especially has good intentions and just wants to help.

Okay.

He has done so many odds and ends for Helen and has been a considerable friend to her as well.

So basically all the little things he's doing for Helen to get her trust are working on you too.

I mean, okay, I hope you're right.

I don't know.

I hope that that is true, but unclear.

I've always respected Helen as a grown adult who can make her own decisions.

The only intervention I've had with her is gently telling her that the celebrities on Facebook were not, in fact, celebrities, but just scammers.

Oh, boy.

Okay, that's his a lot.

That's not encouraging.

Yeah, that makes me think she's vulnerable.

Yeah.

Gullible.

That's hmm.

So she goes on.

I've encouraged her to draw boundaries with Jack, Jill, and her her ex-boyfriend, but ultimately, it's something she needs to do.

I don't want to be another person in her life trying to control her.

On the other hand, I'm concerned that she's been set up to be taken advantage of.

She's built up a bit of wealth through her government pension, so I worry that people close to her are just trying to get some of it.

Is this actually a problem?

Or is the strange feeling in my gut misguided?

How can I help Helen draw boundaries with her friends when she doesn't want the help they're giving?

Also, she's terrified of going to a nursing home one day.

If Jack has power of attorney, can he decide to put her there against her will?

What can I do to protect Helen from being taken advantage of?

Signed, Protecting Helen from These Potential Felons without Aggression Taking Possession or Giving the Wrong Impression.

Oh man, what a tricky situation this is.

First of all, it sounds like you and your family have been an extraordinary presence in Helen's life.

You've embraced her, you've treated her with love and respect.

You've made her your family.

Not because you were angling for anything, but because you genuinely wanted to.

And this is all super touching.

Helen is very lucky to have you guys in her life.

So fortunate.

Second, as you can tell, I am having a very strong reaction to Jack and Jill.

I feel like I've seen this movie before.

Yeah.

I think Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of

money.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I would not mind if Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after, candidly.

And the whole thing would ideally be caught on the spy can they set up in her freaking living room so that we could watch the footage and laugh.

Again, maybe doing Years of Feedback Friday has made me very cynical about situations like this.

It's just hard not to assume the worst.

But so much of what you've shared just screams elder abuse to me, or at least vague elder manipulation.

Look, is it possible that Jack and Jill do genuinely care about Helen?

They want to protect her from her scammy ex-boyfriend, assuming that the guy even really is scamming her and he's not just an enemy they needed to take out, which I'm, I don't know, I'm on the fence there.

Yeah, it's possible.

If they are crooks, they could probably get away with doing a lot less for her.

I don't want to take away from the fact that Jack is very useful with financial stuff and apparently super generous.

So maybe they're not out and out monsters.

But becoming executor of her estate, cutting out another person who might have benefited from her situation, jumping right into this, we love you, Helen.

You're our family.

Call us Auntie Jill.

That thing not coming to you guys.

Like, here's what we're seeing.

Here's how we can help.

You guys have known Helen longer.

What do you guys think?

Basically, just not collaborating with you to form a respectful care team for Helen.

I don't know.

This smacks of maneuvering to me.

At a minimum, they sound pushy and controlling and not particularly interested in what Helen actually wants.

And the fact that your gut is telling you something's off, that you feel very uncomfortable with Jack and with Jill, that's not slam dunk proof that they're trying to get her assets, but it is important data.

Intuition is far from a science, but it can be weirdly accurate sometimes.

And it's not just you.

Helen is uncomfortable with a a lot of this too, from what you've said.

And that's actually what matters the most.

Also, also, this is kind of a theme for Helen, right?

She struggles to assert herself.

She kind of avoids conflict.

She probably feels guilty telling these seemingly generous people, hey, can you back off?

I don't really want all this help.

But that is part of what makes her vulnerable.

Yeah, I don't want an iPhone 16 Pro Max.

I want my Motorola Razor.

What was that thing that everybody wanted back in the sidekick?

I want my sidekick.

The sidekick.

You think Helen's on a sidekick?

I think she's on a sidekick.

I think she's on a flip phone, bro.

She's on an Okea.

But you're in a tough position here because if you go to Helen, like, you need to push back against Jack and Jill.

Here's what I think they're trying to do.

Here's an attorney I want you to talk to.

Even if you are like 100% right, okay, you risk becoming like Jack and Jill, which is an infuriating aspect of this problem.

And you also risk putting Helen in an even more difficult spot.

So what I would do is, first of all, stay close to Helen.

Keep inviting her over.

Keep asking questions about her life, about what Jack and Jill are doing.

And generally, just make it safe for her to tell you what is going on.

If she ever expresses serious concerns about what they're doing or just seems totally overwhelmed and confused, maybe then you say, Helen, I know Jack and Jill have done a lot for you.

It's very sweet.

I also hear you that some of the things they've done have made you uncomfortable.

I just want to make sure you feel that you're being taken care of in the way that you want.

Do you want to tell me about that?

Is there anything you need right now?

Make it an ongoing conversation.

And if she's like, I don't want their help anymore, they confuse me.

I'm scared, whatever it is, maybe you tell her, if you ever need support in saying no to something or setting a boundary, you don't have to manage that alone.

That would be a very nice way to keep her in the driver's seat while still influencing a potentially exploitative situation.

It also shifts the conversation from Jack and Jill are skeezy scammers trying to get your house.

You need to drop them to, you know, listen, you have options.

You're not alone.

Although I will say, Helen might be at a point of decline and Jack and Jill may be at a point of power that you just can't afford afford to be that respectful.

It really depends on how willing you are to stand up for her, protect your own interests, and go tete a tete with these two, which I'm sure is going to be a bit of a battle.

Yeah, I mean, these, these people seem highly motivated and also quite suspicious, right?

Even if they do mean well on some level.

Yeah, so there are a few concrete things you can do to protect Helen right now.

First, keep encouraging as much transparency as possible.

Tell Helen what's happening.

Help her understand what she's signed, what she's agreed to.

If she doesn't understand or even remember, then maybe you suggest that she speak with an attorney of her own, someone specializing in elder law.

You could even help her find that person.

I would also ask them if a guardianship or something similar is appropriate in a situation like this.

Also, I would document everything that happens with Helen and with Jack and Jill, your conversations, your observations, what you learn secondhand.

I would especially document the conversations where Helen expresses discomfort or confusion.

I'm not telling you to build a case just yet, but you want to have this record ready in case her wishes are disputed.

For example, if you end up in litigation with Jack and Jill over the house, this documentation could be the difference between enjoying a rightful inheritance and watching these people essentially abscond with her assets.

And if you get any more evidence that Jack and Jill are engaging in elder abuse or doing anything shady, I would absolutely contact Adult Protective Services.

We talked about this on a recent episode about the neighbor who got caught up in the romance scam.

APS can investigate cases where an elderly person person is being targeted.

They can coordinate with law enforcement.

They can offer counseling, legal intervention, especially financial safeguards.

They can even help with guardianship or conservatorship if the person can't protect themselves.

Gabrielle, I just thought of something.

They said they needed the camera to catch her ex in a confession.

Why?

He's not the executor of the estate.

He doesn't apparently have power over her finances anymore.

They don't need to catch him confessing anything.

That's over with now.

They're not going to get the money back.

The camera excuse is nonsense.

Doesn't make sense.

Yeah, unless he says something that suggests he was stealing from her or he steals from her on camera or something.

If he walks in and goes, I embezzled all the money that I was, so I was buying groceries with you.

Okay, then the police go, hey, give the money back.

And he goes, sorry, I spent it.

And then what, you got a civil case against this guy for five grand?

Useless.

I mean, I think what you're getting at is that the camera might be for our friend and her family here.

They want to keep an eye on them.

Yeah, the reason the camera is in there is not because they need to catch the ex in a confession.

That's complete BS.

It's because they want to control Helen and know what she's talking about with everyone else.

Correct.

Yeah.

Oh boy.

Well, about Jack putting Helen in a nursing home, if he has medical power of attorney, he could potentially make decisions about Helen's care, but generally my understanding is that it's only if she becomes incapacitated.

If he has financial power of attorney, he would have control over her finances, but not her living arrangements.

If it's what's called durable power of attorney, he could potentially act even when she's mentally sound, which would be even more concerning given everything he's done already.

The good news is, if Helen is competent and lucid, and it sounds like she mostly is, no one can legally force her into a nursing home.

But if she starts slipping cognitively and Jack is the one with all the authority, he could potentially make that call, especially if he frames it as being in her best interest.

Yeah, by the way, nice.

You know as much about this law as I do now.

That's why it's so essential for Helen to understand what she signed and why I really want her to have her own legal counsel here who works for her.

But really, the best thing you can do is make sure that the will still stipulates that you get the house if that was indeed the arrangement.

So I would have a conversation with Helen about that in your home, not in front of the camera that Jack set up.

Like, hey, we want to be able to plan for this.

Our attorney wants to know, hey, have you changed your mind?

If so, that's fine.

Did Jack change the will?

I don't want to get all up in your business.

I really feel bad about that, but we don't want to make major life decisions around this if the plan has changed.

And if Helen's like, no, that's that's absolutely in the will.

I made sure that I remember it clearly.

Maybe you guys can rest a little easier.

I still think you should see the will with your own eyes.

And I don't think it matters as much if Jack is the executor, if the will is clear and her own attorney has a notarized copy and Jack doesn't have like the real version somewhere else, right?

But if Helen's like, oh, I don't know, I'm kind of confused.

Jack talked to the lawyer and straighten everything out.

Then you need to get a copy of that will.

I would say just do that as a matter of good cause.

Perhaps with Helen's help, she is obviously allowed to ask for it, see what it actually says, and go to a lawyer with that.

Because if you get a piece of paper that's not notarized and, you know, not signed, that's not the will.

That ain't it.

That's notes.

And that's not going to be binding.

If you find out that Jack changed the will and Helen isn't on board with it, you call Adult Protective Services immediately.

You get your own lawyer involved.

You include Helen in these conversations and you fix this before it's too late.

So bottom line, keep showing up for Helen.

Stay as close as possible.

Document, document, document.

Keep her in the driver's seat as much as appropriate.

The sad reality is that normal, nice people like you often lose to more ruthless people like this.

Because it's just, it's not in your nature to angle for someone else's assets all the time and make a big plan and design your life around it.

But a more conniving person, they don't mind doing that.

They're con men.

They often win.

So you got to be ready to get a little tough if it means countering Jack and Jill's unfair shenanigans.

They might see her as an easy target.

Your job is to make that less true.

I'm sorry this is happening helen is very lucky to have you guys in her life do right by her and you can't go wrong good luck and now jack and jill are going to go up the hill to fetch some deals and discounts on the products and services that support this show we'll be right back moms and dads do you wish you could know where your kids shoes are at all times now you can with skechers newest apple air tag compatible sneakers find my skechers it's the latest genius invention from skechers the comfort technology company with find my skechers there's a clever hidden AirTag compartment under the shoe's insole.

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If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do.

Take a moment, support the sponsors.

All the deals, discount codes, and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website over at jordanharbinger.com/slash deals.

If that doesn't work, email us.

We're happy to dig up codes for you.

It is that important that you support those who support the show.

Now, back to Feedback Friday.

And now for the recommendation of the week.

I am addicted to Lit Vela.

So, as you guys know, I'm getting ready to leave on this big trip, and I've had to pack up my apartment and get my stuff in order.

So, I've been, you know, cleaning out drawers and shelves and cabinets and old storage containers that I haven't looked at in years, stuff like that.

And I'm just remembering how amazing it feels to clean out a space, like even just a tiny corner or a small drawer.

So, I'm going through shelves and you know that one horrible drawer everyone has where you just throw all your miscellaneous stuff.

We always have like one or two of those.

Yeah.

I have rooms full of those drawers.

I've been doing that and I've been feeling this wave of relief.

It is just so liberating to get rid of stuff and clarifying to organize stuff and purge and, you know, all of that.

And it's really nice to give things away to friends or donate them to charities or whatever and know that somebody is actually getting use of the stuff that.

most of us just have lying around.

Nobody's getting anything out of it.

So my recommendation of the week is just that, taking one one space, and I think the smaller the space, the better, and just cleaning it out.

I'm not trying to go all, you know, what's her name?

Marie Condon.

But it is a very powerful practice.

The psychological benefits of decluttering are real.

I don't know why we have this tendency to accumulate stuff in this world.

It's kind of a Western thing.

I wish I had been doing this for the last two or three years while I lived in this apartment so I could have enjoyed.

more space, more simplicity, more freedom, but it's just a great practice and I invite you to do it.

And also bonus tip, whenever you have a little gap where you don't know what to do in your day or you're like, should I do something?

Should I go take a nap or whatever, play Wordle, or you're on a phone call, just pick a drawer, choose a cabinet and just go through it while you're doing whatever else, listening to a podcast or taking a call.

Just make it a little meditation, a little practice.

It'll change your life.

And I'm going to do it in the next department I get into.

Nice.

Also, in case you didn't know, there's a subreddit for our show.

If you want to jump into discussions, there's a lot of discussion on our subreddit over on on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit about the episodes.

There's a meme thread.

It's just a lot of fun, a lot of good takes, a lot of good critiques of things and discussions going on in there.

So if you're a Redditor, go ahead and find us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.

All right, what's next?

Hey, Jordan and Gabe.

I was recently at the post office to renew my passport.

Not wanting to pay 20 bucks to have a single photo taken, I went into my tiny truck in the parking lot to Photoshop a picture of my face.

It was like 100 degrees out and my AC wasn't working, so I had the windows roll down.

That's when this guy walks up to my window and starts telling me that I should become a model, repeatedly saying that I have a beautiful face, that I could be in photo shoots with hot women.

Oh, who talks like that?

Of course, as an eligible bachelor, I'm intrigued, but I'm also aware that I'm not exactly what people would describe as a 10.

I'm maybe like a 6 at best.

I ain't butt ugly, but I've also never been told by anyone that I should become a model.

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself bro someone out there has to be the ugliest model all right that that no ac sheen on your face probably added at least a point yeah that's a hot look right there literally this man referred to himself as gigi was flamboyantly gay and mentioned that he was going to gender transition soon he also told me to call him in 10 days as he was going to brazil that night but when i looked into the business card that he gave me things got way sketchier the business on the card was for a hair salon not a modeling agency the The address belonged to a house at the end of a street next to a park with a wooded area.

And when searching for the business on the internet, I only found one website with an address.

That's it.

Google Maps, Apple Maps, and ChatGPT came up with nothing.

Deep search on Grok did find some interesting details.

It gave a link to this guy's website, which looked like something created in the early 2000s.

The website referred to the business as a hair salon and said cash or check only.

Grok also told me the house was worth over $600,000, which means this guy would at least have enough money to create an online presence, as one would expect from a modeling agency.

Grok also mentioned that this guy allegedly runs charity events in San Antonio.

Everyone I've told this story to thinks he's a trafficker.

Either that or he's doing something shady as hell at the very least.

He saw me sweating in a sleeveless shirt in my busted truck in a post office parking lot, photoshopping a picture of my face and probably saw me as a mark.

Or as a potential date, I'm getting more weirdo vibes from this guy more than trafficker.

Seems like the more likely explanation.

I tried calling the FBI to tell them.

I don't fear danger.

I would be super down to do a sting on this guy, but doing it on my own without some sort of backup would be a very bad idea.

But the person on the line just came off as super dismissive, so I'm not even concerned they took any of this seriously.

Yeah.

Yeah, dude.

I'm sure special agent...

Fennewick was like, yeah, dude, this guy's cruising you.

Leave us alone.

Seriously,

sir, do you think this is the only only cock hustler in the Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area?

I'm a little busy chasing bank robbers and Sinaloa cartel operatives.

You want me to set up a six-month sting operation on Gigi the Transgender Lotlizard?

Come on, man.

Yes, it's catchy, and the crowds love it.

But to simply do nothing seems like an even worse option.

Do you have any contact information you could send my way for people I could bring this info to?

Signed, not trying to be a complainer, but it seems like a no-brainer that this dude is a dangerous player who wants to put me in a shipping container.

Man, so many strange characters in this world, Gabe.

I'm obviously thinking about that guy from a few months back who when he bought the church next to a listener's house and he was hosting networking events that may or may not have been low-key human trafficking meetups, brothel, whatever.

Weird parallels between these two men.

Also, very similar websites.

All these guys have the same web aesthetic.

It's like geo city circa 1999 yeah have you not heard of squarespace gg it's drag and drop squarespace.com slash jordan by the way 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain so yeah obviously a bizarre story probably a shady dude i mean picking up slash recruiting a random person in a usps parking lot while he's schmitzing in his 2004 ford ranger you got to be a little dodgy at least pick him up in a fedex parking lot kinkos right what are they the same company now i get confused fedex kinkos yeah closet up a little that's right.

But is he a human trafficker?

Eh, I don't know about that.

The evidence is a little flimsy.

I think it's just as likely he's a vaguely skeezy former or current hairdresser who is using the modeling thing as an excuse to talk to you.

Maybe try to recruit you into some kind of adult photo shoot or amateur porn thing that benefits him somehow.

Right.

Although one of the things that Layla Micklewaite talked to you about in her interview was that there is kind of a blurry line between recruiting people for pornography potentially and what's actually human trafficking.

Well, that's true.

And Corbin Payne has told us that the legal definition of human trafficking is quite broad and vague, possibly by design.

So you're right.

Who knows?

Also, why was he going to Brazil?

What's that about?

Is he going down there for Carnival or is he trying to find new talent and bring them back in whatever shipping containers?

Well, Carnival is in February, so that can't be it.

Yeah, or maybe he's down there getting the gender transition surgery done or whatever.

In 10 days?

I don't know how long it takes.

Maybe you get it done on day one and you recover for nine days.

I have no no idea.

I don't know.

I don't think that's outpatient.

I think you need some more time.

I just feel like you don't go down to Brazil and be like, call me in a week and a half and we'll pick up where we left off.

Yeah, I really have no idea.

None of this makes sense.

None of it.

I'm not convinced.

He never said he was a modeling agent.

People cut hair out of their houses all the time.

That's not incriminating on its own.

Small businesses are allowed to not accept credit cards in 2025, even though Square and Azillion other platforms exist and it's kind of weird not to.

So yeah, this guy's up to something.

And you are right to be suspicious of a stranger trying to recruit you into modeling in a post office parking lot, which is just an amazing location for a hustle/slash low-key gay dude pickup kind of thing.

I just don't know if this guy's a bona fide trafficker.

I mean, I'm looking at this dude's photo on his website.

The biggest crime he seems to have committed, in my view, is wearing this, I don't know how to describe it, gold embroidered caftan with this Caesar haircut and this giant turquoise ring on his finger.

That's what I think.

Gabe, savage, now you sound like a gay hairdresser slash human trafficker.

Why the human trafficker part?

I'll take the first half of that.

This photo is actually incredible.

I can't stop looking at it.

This is so weird.

Just so you guys can picture this now that I'm looking at it, he's posed leaning to one side on a bunch of brightly colored blankets and bedazzled pillows in front of what appeared, like, I guess it's the swimming pool surrounded by gaudy wine, old tiny wine glasses and what appears to be a bowl of what is that?

Is that a sordid stone fruit?

What is happening here?

Peaches of some kind.

They look like emoji peaches i don't know it's giving pee wee herman out of roman orgy oh yes

absolutely it looks like if 1980s dustin hoffman started cross-dressing and doing tarot cards in a yurt

he looks like the fortune teller at a traveling carnival who also like manages the talent yeah man the amazing gg exactly skims off the top of everyone's paycheck as an agent fee unless you like rub his feet after the show maybe he is a human trafficker i don't know he looks like someone you would run into at little Littlefinger's brothel in Game of Thrones.

Yes.

Just like a passing character who knows all everybody's secrets, and then you don't really talk about it.

Yeah, he's credited as brothel customer number three.

Yes, exactly.

I wonder if you can call anyone involved with these charity events in San Antonio and just see what you can learn about this guy.

That's an idea.

Ask the venue where he hosts them.

See if they know anything.

Reach out to vendors for the events, people who have attended.

If you can piece that together, if he's done something egregious, I'm sure they'd be down to talk.

Another easy thing you can do, pull one of those cheap background checks on this guy and see if he has a criminal history, any strange assets, weird debts.

These reports aren't going to be like slam dung proof, definitely a human trafficker, but you can sometimes put a picture together.

If you really have a bug up your ass about this guy, you can put in the time to do some investigating and see if you can gather more evidence.

But that's really the only thing that's going to make law enforcement even consider taking this seriously.

And you might have to try multiple agencies, including local police, not the FBI.

You're going to have to be patient.

But I'm just not convinced that this guy is as bad as you think he is.

I know we're having a laugh.

I appreciate that you want to protect people, but he could just really easily just be an odd duck looking to earn a quick buck and or holler at a sweaty stranger in broad daylight.

It's hard to find a statute that criminalizes shooting your shot, even if you're barking up the wrong tree.

But let us know if you learned anything else.

I'd love to air an update on discount Paul Rubens, Peebee Herman, over here.

As you can see, Gigi is maybe going to be a new favorite Feedback Friday character.

Get that AC fix, brah.

Roll those windows up and take care of yourself.

Go back and check out the episode with Gareth Gore if you haven't done so yet.

The best things that have happened in my life and business have come through my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust.

And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six-minute networking course.

It is free.

It is not gross.

You don't have to approach people in post-office parking lots.

You can find it on the ThinkIFIC platform at sixminutenetworking.com.

That's a website that was designed after 1999 and should be working and functioning as such.

The drills take a few minutes a day.

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Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks.

Build relationships before you need them.

Again, all at sixminute networking.com.

Show notes and transcripts, advertisers, discounts, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com/slash deals.

I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

Gabe's over on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi or on Twitter at Gabe Mizrahi.

This show is created in association with Podcast One.

My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tada Sedlowskis, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi.

Our advice and opinions are our own.

I am a lawyer.

I am not your lawyer.

Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show.

Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Share the show with those you love.

If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn.

And we'll see you next time.

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