1219: Redheads | Skeptical Sunday

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It's funny, Jessica, we started, I think our very first Skeptical Sunday was ear candling.

And I thought, oh, here's something that some people do and it doesn't really do anything and it's kind of a scam, but no one's going to get super upset about it.

I thought, this is going to be a relatively non-controversial start to Skeptical Sunday.

And what amazed me, but I guess shouldn't have, and is now just played out over every episode of this show, is people will die on the hill that something that they believe in is not BS.

How dare you try and take away my ear candle?

And you would think ear candling, like no one's, people are just going to go, oh, I've been doing that for years.

I guess it doesn't work.

Silly me or like, I don't believe you.

And they'll just keep doing it.

No.

I got vitriolic emails.

The funniest ones were from like white blonde people who were like, I'm one 7,000th Cherokee.

And this goes way back to the tribe of, or whatever, you know, Indian tribe, Native American tribe.

And I remember, it's funny because of course we fact-check these episodes and we didn't do as much of that back then but we do now but then I was like I better check this one so I called it was supposed to be like oh this goes back to the Sioux Indians so I called this Sioux tribe and I was like this is so random but I have a question and they had this historian person be like yeah no that's just one of those the many things where they say native americans thought of it and like dumb hippies buy it And it has absolutely nothing to do with Native Americans.

And no, we don't do ear candling.

Where do these tales come from?

You'll out of my dead cold ear, you'll take my candle.

Exactly.

And so, the, I just thought, how funny is it that this person's like, you're offending my Native American history?

And I call the authority at the tribe, and he's like, Yeah, no, first of all, we never do that, and we don't do that.

And if it's a BS and that's what you found, you're probably correct.

And I remember something funny.

He was like, Look, we have a long and storied spiritual tradition, it's not really science.

And I was just like, Thank you for, I mean, this guy, why don't you, you should host Skeptical Sunday.

Meanwhile, some esthetician who sells it to her clients and again, her great-great-grandfather was 180th Cherokee is like so deeply offended that we got a one-star review and a scathing Instagram DM.

I just, it's kind of a common story with Skeptical Sunday, actually.

Yeah, I don't share all the messages I get from listeners of Skeptical Sunday.

Make my Sunday mornings start with a laugh for sure.

So people find you, even though we don't list your contact information and they're like, I just want to tell you how wrong you are.

Yes.

Sometimes they're pleasant, but often it's this is my understanding of it and your facts don't match my facts kind of thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Your facts that you got from research don't match the facts that I have that I just know are true, even though I've done no research.

Yeah.

Oh, well, can like I'm so interested to know when I'm wrong.

Can you send me the citation?

And then you never hear from them again, usually.

Citation, no, my buddy told me about it and he's really smart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When I took ayahuasca, they had ear candles.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you're wrong.

Trump card research scientist.

Anyway, today we're talking about redheads, a group accused of everything from being temperamental to being tied to the devil to not doing their research on skeptical Sunday to my favorite, being witches who turn into vampires when they die, allegedly.

Dermatologists stress over their sunburn.

South Park mocks them, and yet they walk among us.

So is it just about red hair?

Are they magical?

Are they cursed?

Or are they just genetically spicy?

To color in the facts, I'm joined by a redhead redhead and friend of the show, writer and researcher Jessica Wynne.

So Jess, how long have you been a witch?

Well, I guess that depends on who you ask, but back in medieval Europe, it was absolutely believed that redheads are witches.

But modern science says we're just genetic oddballs.

So the redhead stereotype goes deeper than drinking whiskey neat and having a bad temper?

Yeah, I mean, there is that, but there's a lot of cultural curiosity.

Redhead, ginger, take your pick, though.

Not every redhead loves being called a ginger.

It can feel like a slur depending how it's used, but you and I, safe space.

Right, safe space, no name calling.

Except, we've all heard redheads are crazy, soulless.

Not me.

South Park did a whole episode about it.

My speech is entitled, Ginger Kids, Children with Red Hair, Light Skin, and Freckles.

We've all seen them on the playground, at the store, walking on the streets.

They creep us out and make us feel sick to our stomachs.

I'm talking, of course, about ginger kids.

Ah, sick!

Gross!

Ginger kids are born with a disease which causes very light skin, red hair, and freckles.

Ah, nasty, yuck!

This disease is called gingervitis, and it occurs because ginger kids have no souls.

Kids who have gingervitis cannot be cured.

Gross!

Yuck!

Because their skin is so light, ginger kids must avoid the sun, not unlike vampires.

Some people have red hair, but not light skin and freckles.

These people are called daywalkers.

Like vampires, the ginger gene is a curse.

And unless we work to rid the earth of that curse, the gingers could envelop our lives in blackness for all time.

It is time that we all admit to ourselves that gingers are vile and disgusting.

Yeah, and that episode?

Hilarious.

Really funny.

But then TikTok piles on that idea.

Ginger hunting became an actual thing.

People were filming themselves harassing redheads.

Instagram accounts mock redheads.

There's entire Reddit threads debating whether gingers have souls.

It's, it's a whole thing.

But ginger hunting sounds less like teasing and more like a hate crime.

Yeah.

I mean, when, thank God, there wasn't social media when I was a kid.

I don't know if I would have survived.

But when I was a kid, I got called Freckled Freak and the Devil's Spawn.

And that was just in elementary school.

Now it's viral.

I mean, I've been teased, spit on, and hit on.

Don't get me started on the bad pickup lines.

Which one do you prefer?

No, are you?

He said, are you a firecracker in bed?

Can I buy you a red-headed slut?

Or, oh, no, it's for sure.

So, does the carpet match the

answers are no, no, and please just stop talking.

You know, redheads are cocktails or kinks.

The assumptions about redheads are wild.

I've actually been asked more than once if redheads are allowed to donate blood.

Side note, we are.

Yeah, but just not during daylight or during the full moon, right?

Right, right, right.

I mean, this folklore goes back centuries, though.

During the witch trial days, redheads were found unlucky, untrustworthy, even demonic.

The mentality was like, oh no, our crops failed.

Clearly the problem is the woman with the red locks.

Burn her.

All hair color still comes with personality stereotypes, though.

Blondes are dumb.

Brunettes are smart.

Redheads are fiery.

I don't know what blue hair hate the government.

I don't know.

Pretty much, but gingers get teased relentlessly.

What Jessica Rabbit did to my formative years is, I don't know.

In middle school, I was given a nickname that stuck for years.

Do you want to hear it?

Do I?

Fire muff.

Well, there goes the explicit rating or the not explicit rating of this episode.

That's not a nickname.

That's embarrassing.

We're definitely not going to call you that on the show from now on or anything.

Um, wow, as a kid, huh?

Yikes.

Yeah, try being 13 and explaining that to your mom.

Did she need it explained, or did she just need to know what it was?

Because I feel like it's self-explanatory, is it not?

Yeah, I don't know.

It depends how sheltered your mom is.

Moms like to spin everything.

Oh, it's nice.

Like, no, they're not, they're not being nice, mom.

But the teasing doesn't stop.

It just hits different as an adult.

You'd be shocked at the number of times I've had women in locker rooms comment on my pubic hair.

Like, no, excuse me, I'm just here to throw on my gym clothes, not do show and tell.

Honestly, wow.

I don't, so that's strange to me.

I don't think guys would do that to each other.

I'm trying to imagine how that even goes down.

Hey, man, wow.

Nice pubes on that dong there.

Way too invasive.

Way too invasive.

I guess that answers for us the whole carpet matching the curtains thing you didn't want to talk about before.

So there's cultural trauma, but let's talk.

I still can't believe women are that.

I figured y'all ignored each other in there, just like we do.

I mean, you talk with guys, but like the, it's sort of like, let's just all talk like we're not naked right now.

That's kind of what happens in a locker room.

Yeah, it'd be such an interesting observation

to see the difference.

Yeah, the difference in locker room.

What is locker room talk?

That's right.

So, okay, let's talk genetics.

Why do redheads even exist?

What makes a redhead?

a redhead?

Well, it's about something everyone has, a gene called the melanocortin receptor, or the MC1R.

It tells your cells what kind of pigment to make for your hair, skin, and eyes.

In redheads, the MC1R gene mutations reroute the signals and tell the cells to make very little pigment.

That means red hair, pale skin, and tragic sunburns.

Okay, so redheads are mutants then.

I think the more polite term is rare.

And if you've got red hair and blue eyes, eyes, that's the rarest combo on Earth.

According to evolutionary biologists, the odds are 0.17%.

That's only about 13 million people out of the 8 billion on Earth.

So what color are your eyes?

Blue.

Wow.

You are really a freak then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Guilty.

So why is this combo so rare?

Because both traits are recessive.

Okay.

So statistically, it's just very unlikely.

You need two sets of the redhead mutant gene, one from each parent, for the trait to show up.

And then they each have to pass it down.

That's why two brunettes can still have a red-headed baby.

They both just have to be carriers.

It's like a ginger lottery ticket.

Yeah, sort of.

Pigmentation starts with melanin, the stuff that colors our skin and hair.

There's cells called melanocytes.

that package pigment into melanosomes, which get delivered to your skin and hair cells.

Humans make two different kinds of melanin, eumelanin, which is the darker pigments, and pheomelanin, which are the lighter ones.

Redheads just crank out way more pheomelanin.

Which is why every redhead I know is either hiding under a parasol or slathin and or slathered in SPF 1000.

Yeah, I mean, and for good reason.

Melanin isn't just your color.

It's like your UV bodyguard.

It absorbs radiation, protects from cellular damage, and it's like a shock absorber of ultraviolet light.

So without enough eumelanin, you burn fast.

The process is called apoptosis, where your skin gets inflamed, blood vessels expand, and boom, sunburn.

So the more pheomelanin, the faster you burn.

And not only that, but this damage can lead to a lot of different skin cancers.

So now I guess I'm understanding the vampire comparison, but why is there such a wide spectrum of hair and skin tones?

That's probably a dumb question, but whatever.

Yeah, I mean, and as far as the vampire thing, probably, you know, sunscreen's only been around since the 70s, so redheads probably did only come out at night, which sparked these rumors, right?

But the MC1R gene, it's not acting alone.

So research suggests there are at least eight other genes that influence the red hair expressions.

So it's not just like one switch being flipped.

It's like a whole genetic circuit board.

Is there any way to know what traits people are likely to pass down?

There's no definitive way, but you can figure out the probability using what's called a Punnett square.

It's a diagram that maps possible gene combinations from two parents, and there's so many combinations.

That's why siblings don't look alike.

No, I had three siblings, but I'm the only redhead.

My brother has brown hair, but a red beard.

Genes just express themselves in many different ways.

So I guess, what do you guess?

What would you say?

The drapes don't match the carpet?

I don't know how that feels.

For him, it would have been.

Yeah, so you can't.

So, gross.

Gross pickup line.

So you can carry a genetic trait without showing it.

Okay.

Yeah, so that makes sense.

But does the whole thing with redheads go beyond skin and hair?

I've actually heard redheads don't feel pain as much or something along those lines.

Is that real?

That sounds fake.

Yeah, I mean, this is where it definitely gets weird.

So the MC1R gene isn't just about pigment.

It's involved in a bunch of biological processes, including pain processing.

And studies show redheads, they do feel pain, but they experience it differently than other people.

So redheads produce lower levels of a protein called POMC, and that protein breaks down into two key hormones, one that boosts pain perception and another that blocks it.

Redheads end up with more of the pain blocker and less of the pain booster.

And there's even studies that show redheads tolerate more electric shocks and stabbing pains than those with different colored hair.

But at the same time, redheads are, they're just, they're more sensitive to thermal pain, like heat and the cold.

That's so weird.

So you'd shrug off a taser, but if somebody opens a window, you collapse.

I mean, that's pretty accurate.

That's what the research says.

A lot of more research needs to go into the MC1R gene, but that tracks with my behavior.

And it's anecdotal, but I am always cold, but you could stitch my finger without numbing me.

Like, I've done that.

So a University of louisville study suggests that mc1r gene it overactivates temperature detecting cells so when a redhead says they're cold grab them a blanket they're feeling cold but the relationship between red hair and pain perception it's complex and it's not fully understood and not every redhead has the same response right so don't go punch your ginger friend for fun freaky and i mean that in the best way possible

i'm sure and it doesn't stop there.

Redheads' metabolism seems to work differently.

Redheads appear to have a complicated relationship with anesthesia because the MC1R gene mutation, it messes with our opioid receptors that the MC1R gene carries.

I see.

How are we figuring this out?

Are researchers stabbing and shocking redheads?

Are there ginger lab mice?

Yes, there are redheaded mice

experiments.

First of all, I demand a Pixar film, Finding Ginger, a feel-good story about a mouse with self-esteem issues who gets into the ibuprofen.

I love it.

I love it.

Give them Scottish accents and kilts, and I would definitely watch that.

For sure.

But these mice, like redheads, have higher pain thresholds because of their mutated MC1R gene.

And just like in people, the difference in pigment produced meant that...

redheaded mice produce more pain blockers and fewer pain boosters.

So it sounds like your pigment-making cells are communicating with your nervous system somehow?

Is that a thing?

It seems to be, yeah.

And studies find that gender also plays a role.

There's a lot more studies with female redheads and women with red hair have a greater tolerance to pain than men with red hair.

But you said anesthesia affects redheads differently.

Why is that?

Yeah, this research is a little messy.

So back in 2004, there was a study that claimed redheaded women needed 19% more desflurane, which is a general anesthetic, than other hair colors.

Does that mean if you pick up a drug habit, it'll be 19% more expensive?

Because that's a bummer, actually.

I don't think so.

You're like a biological choose your own adventure.

That's so weird.

Yeah, I mean, kind of.

The problem with that study, though, is that it was really, really tiny.

Just 20 white women.

20.

That's not a study.

That's a book club.

And I know people are like, well, the only redheads.

that there are are white women.

And I hope we get into this, but that's not true.

I've actually, my mom taught in school that was mostly African-American, and she said there were tons of kids with red hair.

Yeah, I mean, it's just a mutated gene, it happens for no matter how dark your skin is, it can happen in your hair expression for sure.

Yeah, yeah, it's super cool.

Actually, it's super cute on kids, as you might imagine.

I know you get these little African-American kids with like right, bright red hair.

Yeah, it's absolutely, but yeah, 20, a sample says a 20 basically, you're to your point, not a lot going on there.

That's kind of yeah, not a lot.

And then researchers scaled up the study in 2015 and they used over 6 000 patients but that study found redheads showed no significant difference in anesthesia needed so i was surprised myself by this because my whole life i've believed anesthesia was tricky for us and that that was just conventional wisdom but there's no scientific evidence I definitely have had doctors tell me that, but I've only needed general anesthesia once.

So doctors told you that, but not anesthesiologists.

So the big anesthesia conspiracy is a ginger urban legend.

I'm actually surprised by how often doctors don't know anything about anesthesia.

And I will tell you, in their defense, I've got a buddy who's an anesthesiologist, close friend of mine.

He also says, hey, frankly, we don't actually know how all of this stuff works at every level.

Anesthesia is so freaky.

It really, it's terrible.

It's kind of like, okay, so you're an expert on this and people put their lives in your hands.

And he's like, correct.

I know how to administer it.

I know how to solve problems with it.

But once you get into how it works deeply in the brain, at least your general everyday anesthesiologist at a hospital, he doesn't know how this stuff works.

Maybe people who are really big in the scientific research end can explain it better.

But he's like, I'm pretty sure there's just a lot of like, we don't know exactly how this works when it comes to anesthesia.

I think that's just everything with our

medicine,

especially our brains and genes and things.

Yeah.

But I mean, the thing with these studies, focusing on specifically redheads, is that they're just inconclusive at best.

There just hasn't been enough solid research.

Though the MC1R gene, it does mess with the body in interesting ways.

It sounds less like myth-busting and it's myth-mutating.

Yeah, I mean, for sure.

Yeah.

The MC1R gene and therefore redheads are still a big, weird mystery.

There was a 2021 mouse study that even linked the redheaded gene gene to higher pain thresholds, and the researchers concluded from that that the MC1R gene also influences how we process painkillers, drugs, and alcohol.

South Park says gingers don't have souls, but you know who does?

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Let's see what they got before we come back with more myths, mutants, and maybe even a little witchcraft.

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Now, back to Skeptical Sunday.

So this feels like evolution having a bit of fun with this MC1 R gene.

I think so.

I mean, tell me about it.

Opioids, for instance, in redheads, they work too well.

They are more effective in redheads because smaller doses hit harder and less is needed to get the same relief or high than people with other hair types.

But then the effect of that wears off quicker.

Ah, okay.

So maybe the cheaper high that's also short-lived cancels each other out.

Disregard what I said above about saving 20% off your smack bill.

Yeah, I don't know.

Hopefully, I won't have to find out, but I think redheads, they just have to get high more often.

Yeah, that might actually explain why my redheaded friend slams this, you know, one white claw and goes from sober to karaoke in like 10 minutes.

It hits them fast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, there's evidence that redheads do get tipsy faster, but then they can drink for longer periods of time.

So personally, I once fell out of a dental chair because the gas hit me so fast.

But

anesthesia, that one time I had it, it took absolutely forever for me to wake up.

And back when I used to drink, I could have a six-pack at the pre-party and then go out for martinis.

So anecdotally, I mean, redheads seem to metabolize things differently, but it just isn't widely studied.

So medicine doesn't know if redheads are superhuman or just badly wired?

Or maybe it's, maybe it's other things about you?

I mean, I guess that's the debate, right?

But the MC1R gene definitely affects pigment.

It also definitely interacts with brain pathways for pain.

And some scientists even argue the variants that affect pain aren't the same ones that make your hair red.

So we just know so little, but we do know something is up with this MC1R gene.

Translation being, you can't just look at a ginger and go, better double up the morphine, doc.

Right.

And the medical consensus right now is don't treat redheads based on hair hair color alone.

So anesthesiologists will tailor the dose to each patient anyway based on vitals and monitoring during surgery.

It's just kind of another way redheads get the side eye.

I see.

Okay.

So you're like a super complicated lab rat?

I think so.

Okay, but do redheads actually drink more than those without the recessive gene, or is that another Irish-based stereotype kind of thing?

I mean, the data points to redheads having a particular affinity for alcohol that others don't.

It seems to be related to metabolism and pain sensitivity and less severe hangover symptoms.

Ultimately, it's just important to understand that while genetics do play a role, tolerance to alcohol is determined by a variety of factors, not just genes.

So lifestyle and body chemistry matter too.

The complex relationship between redheads and alcohol is still being sorted out.

but heredity and the body's reaction to alcohol do seem to interact.

But it's not like AA meetings or redhead conventions.

Right.

Yeah, that's true.

So let me get this straight.

Redheads might need more anesthesia, but less morphine, can tolerate electric shocks, but freeze under a snowflake.

Do medical schools actually teach this stuff?

I have to assume that they do.

Yeah, they do.

Med students learn that redheads respond differently to certain drugs.

So for example, topical or injectable anesthetics like lidocaine, they often work less effectively.

So higher doses probably needed for your red-headed patients.

But then there's that paradox that they need lower doses of opioid painkillers like morphine.

So every anesthesiologist has some sort of secret ginger manual somewhere on their bookshelf?

I think so.

I mean, they should have a manual for every patient.

But yeah, research shows the MC1R gene influences receptors all over the body.

And because it's mutated, redheads react oddly to so many substances.

And by studying it, scientists might actually unlock new pain treatments for everyone, regardless of hair color.

So redheads are saving the world one light of cake shot at a time, I guess.

Yeah, and it's not just humans, right?

The MC1R mutation shows up across the animal kingdom.

Like cats, for instance.

Male ginger cats are far more common than female ones because the orange fur gene sits on the X chromosome, meaning males only need one copy, but the females need two.

Ah, I came for hair trivia and I'm staying for cat genetics.

Yeah, I mean, female cats with the one orange gene, they're the ones that come out, the patchy calico or tortoiseshell coats.

But the MC1R, it's kind of like the weird gene.

So overall, redheads have unusual reactions to numerous substances because that gene influences receptors all over our brain.

And it makes redheads unusual in a whole bunch of ways.

Like all the sunscreen y'all use.

So if you have red hair, sunblock is absolutely necessary, correct?

Because of the MC1R light pigment thing?

Yeah, absolutely.

I call it armor.

And like I said before, sunscreen only showed up in the 70s.

So our redheaded ancestors were basically toast.

And I feel for all my generations of redheads that came before sunscreen that that could not have been pleasant.

But redheads have very little protective melanin, which is why they are at a higher risk for melanoma.

And too much sun kills melanocytes.

And once they're gone, the cancer risk goes way up.

So, this shows how much the MC1R's effects ripple out beyond hair color.

Yeah, and skin cancer risks may be one of the best-known facts about redheads.

Dermatology studies show over and over that there's no question that red-haired individuals are at a much higher risk for skin cancer than non-redheaded individuals.

Gingers are just more susceptible to damage from the sun, and burning just happens.

Yep, nature gave you flammable skin.

Yeah, pretty much.

It It certainly gives redheads pale skin, freckles, and sensitivity to the sun.

It's like the ginger starter pack.

Yeah.

So does that make redheads age faster?

Weirdly, yes.

Bummer.

A study in current biology found that people with the MC1R gene mutation, which means redheads, appear at least two years older than people who don't have it.

That's not bad.

And it isn't from sun damage.

The gene itself seems to influence pathways tied to sagging skin and facial aging.

So the studies of the MC1R gene are the first genetic evidence for perceived age.

So you look older and then you get more sun damage, which makes you look even older.

So if you do everything right, you only look two years older, but if you do everything like a normal person, you look 12 years older.

Yeah, if you stay inside,

you'll still look older.

Not a lot of upside to being a ginger so far.

Oh, well, on one bright side, there was a 2020 study that found redheads produce vitamin D faster and at higher levels than those without red hair.

Oh, good, because you can't get vitamin D anywhere else.

Right, right.

Hey, give it to me.

Yeah, it's $100 for a 10-year supply of vitamin D, maybe less.

I don't know.

Pale skin plus the MC-1R means redheads have evolved to naturally make up for what they lack.

So the level of D3 in someone also corresponds to how red the hair is.

And the pale skin is actually an evolutionary advantage in cloudy places like where we associate red hair, Ireland, and Scotland.

But basically, the red-headed body makes homemade natural supplements.

So, like my kids' fruit loops, you're fortified with vitamin D.

That's convenient.

I am.

I am, definitely.

And there are more health quirks associated with red hair.

According to a large review study published in 2017, female redheads have a higher risk of gynecological cancers like cervical, uterine, ovarian.

And the redder the hair, the higher the risk.

So one theory links it to prenatal estrogen exposure, but that hasn't been extensively tested.

So of course, you know, I think the problem here is there's no one shade of red, and these studies rely on women's own rating of how red her hair is, which is just so subjective.

It's like, it's got to be hard to measure degrees of redheadedness.

So, red hair might influence your biology before you're even born.

I think so, yeah.

This is all pretty heavy so far.

Tell me something fun.

Come on.

Well, red hair affects blushing, so redheads blush easier and brighter.

Okay.

Evolutionary theory says redheads developed many abilities to survive where the sun rarely shines.

Insert joke about sunburned butts here, I guess.

I know.

Well, in parts of the world with low-intensity UVB rays, rays, like central and northern parts of Europe, redheads may be seen more.

I guess it makes sense that there's more redheads in Ireland and Scotland because it's just not that sunny there, like you said before.

Yeah, sure.

But, you know, as we know, redheads do pop up everywhere.

And right now, it's estimated that redheads make up about 1 to 2% of the world population.

That may seem like a very low number, but...

That's about 150 million redheads walking around the world.

They're not all in Ireland.

But you're right that sections of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales have the highest concentration of redheads.

It's about 10% there.

And there used to be a huge redhead gathering once a year in the UK, but it stopped during the pandemic and it hasn't come back.

However, in the last week of August of 2025, there was a Redhead Days Festival in the Netherlands.

Wow.

So there really is a Redhead Festival.

That's hilarious somehow.

How does something like that even start?

You got to wonder.

Yeah.

I mean, the one in the Dutch city of Tilburg has been happening for for decades.

In the 80s, Dutch artist Bart Rohenhorst put out an ad in a local newspaper for 15 redheads for an art project, and he got 10 times the response he was expecting, but he just had everyone who responded join in on his group photo.

And now it's just turned into this free festival open to all.

with the exception of the scheduled official group photo that's restricted to natural redheads.

The 2013 gathering of this set a Guinness World Record for the largest gathering of people with natural red hair, with almost 2,000 people posing for the one group photo.

Hilarious.

Were you ever part of something like that?

No.

And in fact, I'll say I lived in Dublin for a year and I traveled all over the island.

I was actually surprised at how few redheads I encountered.

Really?

Yeah, it just didn't seem to me to be overwhelming, but it appeared way more prevalent when I traveled around Scotland and Wales.

But redheads are not just restricted to Europeans.

So where, like I mentioned before, there's African Americans with red hair.

So where did this freaky gene originate?

Is it like a Viking thing?

Yeah, I was convinced there was a Viking thing at one point, too, but no, Vikings did not introduce red hair despite what every redhead Halloween costume has you believe.

The redheaded gene mutation, it actually predates the Viking age by like tens of thousands of years.

I liked the idea that every redhead has a little bit of Thor blood.

I thought every Ginger was a little bit of an angry Norse god in the first place.

They They all have that rep.

I'm frankly a little disappointed.

Yeah, sorry to ruin the fantasy, but I mean, red hair is found among people of Viking descent, don't get me wrong, but it's not exclusive to them.

Vikings were as genetically diverse as any society with early man buns in hair colors across the spectrum: blonde, brown, red.

So, where did the first redheads come from?

Like, was there a

ginger Eve somewhere on the books?

Not quite Eve, but yeah, genetic mutation first popped up in Central Asia about 50,000 years ago.

Wow.

And as humans migrated to Europe, they just carried the gene with them.

And then in sun-starved places like Ireland and Scotland, the pale skin and red hair, it helped with that vitamin D production.

And so that's what resulted in pockets of gingers thriving in the fog.

I wonder how they even found that it popped up in Central Asia 50,000 years ago.

Like, are they doing an archaeological dig and they're like, wow, look at this guy.

The carpet matches the curtains.

This fossil.

It also seems like this information is somewhat new.

I mean, I think it's just from how we can do genetic and DNA testing and fossils.

Yeah.

So you mentioned that vitamin D production or early vitamin D production resulted in pockets of gingers thriving in the fog.

So this is like a pre-sunscreen hack to battle the sun.

So it's a useful mutation.

It's kept you.

What does vitamin D prevent again?

Is it rickets?

There's a lot of hormone stuff related to it.

Because I was deficient and I just.

Yeah, I think there's just a lot of, a lot of balancing.

yeah i i don't know specifically but we definitely need it that is for sure yeah wow but yeah i mean definitely you find redheads all over and it was the celts who they started in central europe they seem to have a big pocket of it and they helped spread the gene all around because they had a nomadic lifestyle You know, Morocco, for example, has a much higher than average concentration of redheads.

There's specific parts of Russia and even South America that have very high populations.

Just redheads are found everywhere.

Yeah, I've actually seen people from Yemen and Afghanistan with bright red hair in their beards.

Yeah.

And it's so bright that you think that's fake, but then you realize that a 60-year-old Yemeni guy running a gas station is not dying his beard red, right?

He's just, it doesn't look like the type.

He's just a freak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you see it enough where you're like, there's one place I go to that has amazing friggin' shwarma in Castroville.

And it's like a rotten Robbie gas station with a falafel Schawarma place in the back that is epic.

And it's run by Yemenis.

And the dad has this bright red hair.

And he's the guy where I'm just like, yeah, that's not fake.

This guy's not, this guy's not dying his beard and walking around this place like that.

Like, he's not the guy.

But it's very interesting to see that.

And you see that in photos of people from Afghanistan.

I've seen some Taliban photos where guys have bright red hair.

Yeah, I've seen the Taliban photos too.

I'm like, oh, that's why they're covering up their heads.

And you're thinking, like, okay, the Taliban probably also not running to the pink dot to get beard dye, right?

So it's probably real.

So all these old myths, I guess my point here is that all these old myths are even weirder because if redheads are everywhere and they've been around for thousands and thousands of years all over Central Asia and all over the continent of Europe.

Why the superstitions?

It's not that rare.

It's like being left-handed.

Well, I guess if you're left-handed, we should do an episode on that.

Yeah.

Because they, I think also we have, there's superstitions that people who are left-handed are bad.

In fact, I think you even say left in Italian, sinistra, which is like sinister, right?

That's got to be related to that.

Yeah, I know in the Catholic religion, you couldn't be left-handed if you were studying at the church.

You had to write with your right.

There was some kind of connection with the devil, which who knows where all these things come from.

I mean, maybe.

I don't know.

That's sort of, I could see that checking out, at least in my case.

Humans love to just demonize what's weird and rare.

And rare, yeah.

Yeah.

The comedian Anissa Nandala, she actually is a bit about how rare it is to see redheads in Uganda.

It's hilarious.

When I first came to Australia, I didn't know anything about you guys.

Like, when I saw my first redhead, I lost my shit

because I didn't know that you guys came in this edition.

The first time I saw a redhead, his name was Stewart, and I kept staring at him because in Uganda, redheads get kidnapped by witches and used for spells.

And I think he looked down on me because I was black.

He was like, you must be so happy that you don't live in Uganda.

I was like, no, you must be so happy we don't live in Uganda.

They'd fuck you up.

So yeah, Redheads just collected some truly bizarre folklore everywhere.

Some flattering, some really not.

So give us the flattering first warm us up okay well in 1886 a french doctor augustine gallopin he published a book declaring redheads were sexier smelling people literally he thought they emitted a unique intoxicating body odor not creepy at all perhaps that doctor was just he maybe had a thing for redheads with b o which i guess back then in 1886 in france everyone had b o so whatever is that science or is that just the musings of a horny french guy guy?

I think everyone's guess here is the latter.

Yeah, that's the kind of rigorous, peer-reviewed research we need more of on this podcast.

But his myth has carried on today.

Some people still believe that because of specific skin biochemistry, redheads have a unique smell.

Okay.

Gross.

Anyway, I don't believe that.

I'm just, that is some people's belief.

I'm just not convinced that that's specific to redheads, but I'm no horny French scientist.

So what do I know?

I mean, I agree with you.

It's just another theory out there.

But there is actually attraction data.

So attraction is a really difficult thing to define, but it's real.

And some people are just more attracted to redheads.

Like that's their type.

And it seems people like Jason Momoa, they assume a lot of things about redheaded behavior.

Do you know a little mermaid?

That was her question in my office.

And I was like, ask him.

Ariel.

Ariel's very sweet.

she's very nice she's also a redhead so yeah I'm gonna teach you about redhead someday

they're they're very passionate very passionate people

yeah these little comments are so common and they can make me feel pretty misunderstood stick around these deals are hotter than a ginger's first sunburn we'll be right back

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but the burning question is are redheads having more sex that's what everybody wants to know that's what horny french doctors want to know that's what the horny french doctors try to figure out.

I mean, studies show redheaded women report more sexual activity and partners.

There was a 2022 study that found redheads become sexually active at an earlier age and report higher sexual desires.

There's a German dating app researcher that claims redheads average at least one more hookup per week than blondes or brunettes, however you figure that out.

I just, I want to point out these studies all suggest that redheaded women report more sexual activity and more sexual partners.

And it's because it's a fetish for some.

Those who are into redheads are just super into redheads.

And there's, I don't know, less supply maybe because of the rarity.

I mean, maybe.

I mean, I don't think that's exactly it.

So researching this, I found a weird fact about redheads in the human body.

So that 2022 study that looked at 110 women, 34% of them redheads, found that they scored higher on measures of sexual desire.

They reported more sexual activity and more partners than all the non-redheaded participants.

But these studies are somewhat ridiculous.

So it's not entirely clear why this is the case.

And the authors of it speculate that it could be due to a partner's more frequent attempts to initiate sex rather than the women's desire.

So perhaps it's like a exotic novelty factor.

I'm not sure.

Or they just love getting down.

Yeah, red-headed sluts, Jessica.

Daddy, chill.

But according to this study, the sex lives of women with red hair were clearly more active than those with other hair colors, with more partners having sex more often than the average.

And the figures revealed that typically redheads have intercourse at least one more time per week than the rest of the population.

So does that, there are so many questions I want to ask you, but here's the question I'm going to ask you.

So does that mean redheads are having more babies as well?

These studies are also so bizarre because they actually show that redheaded women report more fertility issues, but also end up having more children.

So they're having more sex and having more babies, and scientists are mystified.

Okay, maybe no surprise some of the science dorks can't figure this one out.

Can't figure this one out.

I don't know.

You know, I'm something of a scientist myself.

At least I was back in the day.

Hopefully I've shaken that reputation by now.

Anyway.

I mean, this all makes me a gold star redhead.

I have red hair, blue eyes, and no babies.

So could be biology or maybe something more psychological.

It's not data that has been collected enough, but not only do redheads have fertility issues, it's also reported redheads have higher rates of depression and anxiety.

Wow.

Redheads are high anxiety and high functioning.

Maybe that's a reason some people are so into them.

You sexy, aromatic, freckly, neurotic mess.

Bring that pale ass over here.

I will say, and I tried to find like actual research about this, but as far as the depression goes, you know, in therapy, doctors like to throw you all kinds of medicine.

I was prescribed at one point in my life an SSRI, which is like well, butrin and those kind of things.

It did the opposite.

It did so much damage and I had to immediately be taken off of them.

So when I was reading this, I thought, is okay, if we have higher depression rates, is it because the medications don't work on redheads?

But I couldn't find any research.

That's just my experience.

But, you know, there's definitely a cultural fetish.

So some guys treat it like they're collecting rare Pokemon, like, oh, I've always wanted a redhead.

Like, it's not subtle.

And I'm not interested in being the shiny Charizard.

I don't know about my other redheaded sisters, but I don't want to be somebody's sexual conquest.

And there are really specific studies that actually look at the rates different hair colors get hit on.

Did you say Sharizard?

Is that a Pokemon, by the way?

Yes.

Ah, I guess I always thought that was Sharizard, but you can tell I don't play Pokemon.

Oh.

Because it looks like that's the one that's spelled Sharizard, basically, right?

Yeah, like Lizard, but I think they say it Sharizard.

Sharizard.

I mean, who knows?

I'll take your word for it.

Can tell me.

My pronunciation might be off.

Yeah, that's going to be the one thing everybody emails me about this episode.

Nothing else is going to be interesting.

It's just going to be all pronunciations of Shahrazard.

Tell me about the, you said, different rates hair colors get hit on.

Say more about that.

What color should we all be dying our hair?

I mean, well, it depends on the kind of attention you want, but it's true.

The studies look at straight women with different hair colors, and they show blondes get the most male attention, redheads a little less so.

But the same men interviewed later said redheads seem less approachable.

So these studies, you know, they're a bit flimsy, and I'm sorry to my red-headed brothers.

I didn't come across any similar experiments with men and hair color.

So redheads are bullied and fetishized.

That's peak humanity right there, I suppose.

And bullied in the strangest ways.

Just a couple weeks ago in Tucson.

This guy went to a city council meeting and just went on this wild rant about how much he dislikes having gingers in town, how red-headed people shouldn't be allowed to have cameras.

It's so wild.

We got to choke every ginger in town.

We can't have gingers running around Sara Rita.

You know, we can't have gingers.

We can't have people with a camera.

You put a ginger with a camera, we need to get them out of here.

We can't have any of them gingers.

And that's basically all I got to say.

All gingers should be thrown out of Sara Rita.

Sarita is not the place for gingers.

If we can throw out all the gingers and bring in more people like Chief Nolan, he knows what to do with gingers.

We saw.

He knows how to handle gingers that's how you got to handle gingers is you put them in a headlock and you throw them to the ground and you break their camera he had a 4k camera none of us in tucson can afford a 4k camera we have to use 1080 or 720 but he had a 4k camera you got to break that camera you can't let anybody with nice cameras like that around cereved especially in the police department so i thank you for what your chief did and we need more people like him we need more people on Serbia to choke out gingers.

Wow.

Yeah, I saw that.

I thought that, first of all, it looks like a scene out of Parks and Wreck.

We'll link it in the show notes.

I thought it was a joke.

I really thought that he was trolling because who the hell is so anti-redhead that they speak at a town hall meeting?

What the hell?

I was so hoping it was a joke, but this.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, what are the odds that this 65, 70-year-old man is able to deliver something that dry and persuasive and be ironic and not serious?

Yeah.

I'll definitely be avoiding the Tucson area.

I mean, I just, I feel so targeted, this, this vitriol.

Tucson's in Arizona.

There should be no redheads there anyway, given what you just told me about the sun.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously, this is a very extreme example.

I'd like to think most people do not feel this way.

No.

But there's also an extinction myth I've heard, by the way.

Is it true that redheads are slowly disappearing over time and they'll eventually go extinct?

Yeah, I have definitely heard that too.

But like it or not, you're stuck with this world.

It's just total nonsense.

Redheads could go extinct because the MC1R gene, it's not going anywhere.

There will always be some mutations and it's recessive.

So even if no ginger babies show up for a while, it will appear, maybe even generations later.

So it's just a sneaky trait in the gene pool and it can pop up any time both parents are carriers.

Genetic roulette.

It's like a genetic dating app matching you with a partner that is 98% compatible to make a child that has red hair.

Wow.

You're joking, but there are ginger-only dating sites.

No surprise.

Yeah.

One's called redheaddates.com.

Clever.

Very clever.

There's a few others for people with that redhead fetish, which is just bizarre to me.

Ew.

Yeah.

I will say, at least in my experience, you know, people who are into redheads are like.

enthusiastically into redheads.

I don't think you need a dating app.

I think you just go to a bar, probably.

But any dating site that defines people based on a single physical trait is gross.

I tend to agree.

I should probably go ahead and cancel my subscription to third nipplesonly.com.

How do they, so you'd have to account for all the different shades of red hair, right?

Like strawberry, blonde, fiery red.

The variables seem almost impossible to control.

And then it's like, oh, I only want natural redheads.

I would filter by natural or dye.

Like, that's so weird.

Right.

And there's just so many different shades.

And that's all about variations in the MC1R gene.

And as I've aged, my hair shade has definitely changed.

It's, it used to be so crazy bright when I was little.

Now it's, you know, a bit dulled down.

And however the pigment works, redheads skip the part of hair going gray and they just fade to bright white.

There's other redheaded statistics that might surprise you, like.

Redheads are more likely to be in commercials.

What?

That's a weird one, I suppose.

Yeah, I know, but a 2014 report found that 30% of TV commercials during prime time featured redheads, despite being only 2% of the population.

And at one point, CBS showed a redhead every 106 seconds.

You got to wonder who measured that.

That is bananas.

That's crazy.

Were you ever in a commercial?

When I was a kid, I was.

Oh, wow.

Now that I work in the entertainment industry, I spend a lot of time on studio lots and I get a surprising amount of extra work thrown out to me for someone not interested in being an actor.

So I do pop up in the background on shows like that HBO show, The Pit I was in.

There's a lot of studio audience shots I get pulled into.

They pull you into it.

So they're like, we're filming the audience, but everyone has dark hair.

Go get Jessica.

Yeah.

PAs will come and be like, hey, do you want to sit in on this for a minute?

Just for these, you know, to pan across the audience.

Yeah, they pan across the audience, not in real time.

So yeah, you get pulled into it.

It's hilarious.

There's a show called Platonic that recently wanted all the redheads around for a wedding reception scene because the male character was a redhead.

So they wanted to make it seem like the whole family was redheads, which not quite how it looks in the real world, but it was fun and it was cool to see on film, just a whole room full of redheads.

I wonder if there's something red hair does for our senses.

Does Wendy, even though the Wendy the Fast Food logo, does she have red hair to entice me to buy a Frosty or a burger?

I mean, red is associated with appetite.

So a lot of restaurant logos use the color red.

That could explain the high rate of redheads in advertising.

But so many cultural characters, you know, think about it.

The Little Mermaid, Merida, the main character from Brave, Wilma Flintstone and her baby were redheads.

And then, of course, Jessica Rabbit, Strawberry Shortcake.

The list just goes on.

It makes the characters stand out, at least the female ones.

Not sure if that one is offensive or not.

There's a lot of anime men with red hair, I think.

You know, it doesn't have to all be women.

Yeah, for sure.

And people just seem to like it more in a female.

I'm not sure why.

Prince Charming and Beauty and the Beast was a redhead, though.

So good thing for redhead guys is that it's shown that redheads are funnier.

Well, clowns do tend to have red hair.

I actually, my nephew, is a redhead.

My sister and her husband, neither of them are redheads.

And my brother-in-law definitely was uncomfortable with the fact that his son was a redhead, like when he was little.

Just, oh, it'd be easier if it was a girl.

I don't know why that stigma exists.

Weird.

But yeah, clowns have red hair.

According to Professor Andrew Scott, who teaches the history of comedy at the University of Buffalo, we first began to see the circus clown, as we know it, complete with face paint and brightly colored wigs in the early 19th century.

The wigs needed to be bright so that they could be seen from the backs of these large theaters.

So, red was just the obvious choice.

I see.

It is easy to keep track of my red-headed friends in crowds.

You ever go to a rave or something?

You're like, How am I going to find?

Oh, there he is.

Oh, yeah.

People always say, Oh, 3,000 people.

There's 10,000 people here.

How am I going to find him?

Well, there's three redheads.

I've never been lost.

Yes.

I mean, we don't really blend in.

And as clowns evolved, red hair just became symbolic.

It reflects the cultural image of the influx of Irish immigrants in early American history because, like Ronald MacDonald, for example, that's spelled the Irish way, not the Scottish way.

So you're not a witch.

You're just designed differently.

Redheads aren't cursed.

They're supercharged mutants with vitamin D skills and pain quirks.

Exactly.

And maybe don't make fun of your redheaded coworker.

She might live longer than you.

But look older.

She might look older, but she might feel less pain.

She might be better in bed.

So just be nice.

We can't help it.

And the research that has been done on the world's gingers indicate that they do put up with a lot and could be considered genetic superheroes.

So it might not be the type of thing Marvel would take an interest in, but the bodies of redheads are incredibly resilient as their altered genes give them different DNA and by extension, a host of other unique abilities.

And we don't need a radioactive animal bite.

We're just born this way.

Well, to all my ginger friends out there, may your sunscreen be thick and your MC1R jeans be proud.

Thanks, Jess.

Stay pasty.

Thanks, everyone, for listening.

Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me, Jordan at JordanHarbinger.com.

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You can find Jessica on her sub stacks, plural, between the lines, and where shadows linger.

We'll link to that in the show notes.

I guess you can't have just one sub stack, Jessica.

God forbid.

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Of course, we try to get these episodes as right as we can.

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On the show, host Scott Johnson dives deep with his guests into the unbelievable situations they found themselves in.

Animal attacks, plane crashes, winning the prices right, and more.

This show brings you tons of completely surreal, completely true stories, all told through the lens of the person who experienced it.

Check out some of these wild and gripping stories to gain some insight on what it was like to lose a leg to a shark attack and what it was like to be a professional bridesmaid.

Totally fascinating episodes.

So if you want to hear some disturbing and inspiring first-hand stories, you need to check out What Was That Like?

Every story is thoroughly researched and fact-checked so you know even the the most bizarre tales are someone's reality.

Listen to what was that like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Sups!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be heard!

Winner, best score!

We demand to be seen!

Winner, best book!

We demand to be quality!

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs!

Playing the Orpheum Theater October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.