1121: Ethics Expire with Doctor's Desire | Feedback Friday

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Standard exclusions apply. Welcome to Feedback Friday.
I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer helping me give birth to our two cents worth, Gabriel Mizrahi.

And our mucus plug has definitely passed on that one.

That's one of the grossest sort of, yeah, just those two words put together.

Which part, the word itself or it applied to two bros doing a podcast?

Yeah, you're right. I'm not sure which one of those is more sort of graphic and disgusting.

I mean, it passes every week, really. That's right.
Usually around, I would say Thursday midday. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.
And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks

from undercover agents, gold smugglers, money laundering experts, astronauts, and tech moguls.

This week, we had Scott Payne, an FBI agent who infiltrated a biker gang, as well as some other

crazy, crazy, just actually insane people gangs that you would never want to be a part of if you were searching for a gang to be a part of. I don't know.
It takes all kinds, I suppose. We also had a skeptical Sunday on homeschooling, which many of you hated, and I can't say I totally disagree with why, and many of you loved.
And it's really interesting because many of the people who hated it were educators, and many of the people who loved it were educators. So go back and listen to those two if you haven't done so yet.
On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and marvel at the crazy-ish that life can throw our way. Speaking of which, you had yourself a night the other night.
You want to tell us what happened over there? Yeah, so for those of you who didn't sort of see this Instagram story that I threw of the broken window, the door wall, whatever those things are called. On Monday night, I was in my bedroom at 8 p.m.
because it was a little jet lagged, a little under the weather, as you can hear, I'm a little stuffed up. And so I decided to go to bed early.
The kids were already being read to in the other room, another book, after I finished reading them my book. And I'm laying down, and I was looking at Reddit, as one does when passing out.
It's funny, because I was looking at something stupid, right? And then I hear this, boom, like a thud that was loud enough that something had hit the house, but it wasn't heavy, followed immediately by a real heavy thud that sounded like a freaking tree hitting the window. And I got up, and I was like, huh? And then I immediately thought, we don't have any trees.

We have a fenced in yard, so it's not like an animal ran into the wall. And if it did, it's got to be a big ass animal.
I mean, we're talking like, this sounded like a Rottweiler hitting the glass. So I started screaming, get out of here, I'll fucking kill you.
I just went psycho, right? And I just went absolutely bat shit crazy. And I barricaded the rest of the house from Jen and the kids.
And I was like, call 911. And I still had my phone in my hand.
Wait, by this point, did you see anybody? I'm confused. No, I didn't see anybody, but I knew I felt cold air come in and I saw the curtain fly up.
But here's the thing. It was windy.
And also if a tree had hit the window, it would have pushed the curtain over. I'll tell tell you later what that ended up being but so i barricaded the rest of the house and i'm holding the door shut which is like this flimsy interior door with a turn you know a little turn latch jen's like i can't find my phone and i'm like well i'm holding my phone with one hand so call 911 so we call 911 it's a little infuriating because you're like someone's breaking into the house and the guy's like okay you right now? And you're like, no, no, you're supposed to be alarmed also.
And of course they're not, right? They're supposed to stay calm so that you calm down. But I'm just like, no, no, no.
You kind of feel like, are you not taking me seriously? And of course it's just his training being like, of course I'm taking this seriously, man. I just don't want you to like lose your mind.
I just have to be even so I can understand what you're saying. Right.
I just don't want you to lose your mind even more than you already are. And I'm a little bit shaky, but I'm like, I'll get into my reaction later.
I'm a little bit shaky, but I'm also like holding this door shut with a death grip and I'm holding onto the phone and I'm like, you know, I should have both hands free in case I need to punch somebody directly in the face. So I give the phone to Jen and she's like, I don't know what happened.
I heard two thumps. And then I heard my husband screaming and they're like, the police are on their way.
And I'm like, I can feel the cold air blowing in under the door. I know that the door is blasted open and it wasn't just in my, you know, my imagination because there's always the chance that like people heard something fall outside and they're just freaked out.
Right. And I was like, no, I feel the window is broken.
I can feel the cold air rushing into the house. So the police come in just minutes, single digit minutes, very quickly.
I mean, it seemed to me like four minutes or five minutes. And I think when we looked at the videotape, it was something like five or six minutes before they were at our door with the door open.
They were like, get out of the house. So they came in, they looked in the door.
They're like, sir, run over here as fast as you can. So I let go of the door and I sprint out the front of the house.
And I have to say, I'll just pause here and say the police were amazing. Not only was their response time amazing, but you know how, if you've ever had any dealings with the police, sometimes they treat you like you're the criminal, even though you're the one that called them.
And you're like, no, no, no. And you know, or they're like treating you like you're stupid for calling or something like that.
And they were like, no, hide behind the car. They get on the, they aim all these lights at the house and they're like, what is it? They fan out and they look around the outside of the house.
And I know something happens because as soon as they get to the backyard, they radio, I don't hear what they say, but then I hear sirens immediately that are pretty close by. And then six more cars roll up and I'm like, oh, they found someone or something.
So more cops show up, they aim all the lights and they start going, come out of the house with your hands up. One, seven, five, one.
And our street name, you come out with your hands in the air. Obey all police commands.
At this point, I'm like, well, the neighborhood sure as shit knows what's going on oh my god this is so intense it's intense it's like a grand theft auto mini you know side quest and i'm just like jeez and they're like stay behind the car stay behind the car because they're like you're just behind you're behind the car like continuing the we're behind a police car continuing to read the reddit thread that you were enjoying yeah i'm looking at hawaiian tropic winners from 1983 zooming in on their faces to see what the makeup from beautiful women in the 80s looked like that's actually what i was looking at in my bed so imagine how jarring this was right i'm like oh women from the 80s this is interesting they look so much more real boom boom okay someone's trying to break into the house while i'm home so so the more police come and then they're like go can you go somewhere else because else? Cause it's cold. I'm in my underwear, by the way, and my kids are in their pajamas with no shoes on.
So we go in my brother-in-law's house who happens to be right next door. And they're like, we'll call you on your phone when we need you when it's safe.
So we look at our cameras cause we've got crazy, you know, we have multiple camera systems and multiple security systems. So we look at all the camera footage and we see like nine cops go through my whole house with their guns drawn and they're serious.
They're like, check the hallway, check the closet. If anyone's in here, now is the time.
Raise your hands in the air and signal to us where you are. I mean, it's pretty like they are like someone is probably or possibly in the house.
Yeah. They're not like, oh yeah, rock at the window.
So they clear the whole house and then they're like, do you have cameras? We see cameras. Can we look at the footage? So we look at the footage and there's nothing at all at the time that the window broke and we're just mystified.
And they're like, well, okay, maybe this window is defective and the wind blew it in. And the other cops like, I don't think so.
This didn't the middle which is where it would break most likely if the wind so they're like kicking the glass there's a huge pile of shattered glass in my house they're like there would be a rock in here somewhere they're like you didn't find anything you didn't move anything i'm like no i ran out after charging towards the window to scare whoever it was away i ran left and barricadedaded the door and they're like, huh, could it be an animal? And they're like, how would an animal get over this fence though? Are your gates open at all? Did a big animal run in here? They're like, well, there's no fur, there's no blood. And then one of the officers, she goes, why don't we just back up the tape a little bit more in case we have the timing wrong? And sure enough, what we find is one of our security outdoor systems, which is like a totally separate hardwired thing, it's 11 minutes off the timer, the internal clock is 11 minutes off.
We go back another 20 minutes and sure enough, what we find are three dudes who have clearly been to my house before because I have tricky gate latches that are like in weird places and they just without looking almost just do it. They walk in, they go through both gates, they duck under this other floodlight, which turns on, but they just didn't care because they were already inside one of our gates.
And they go around my house, around towards where my hot tub is, around my gym, and they try to break through these big sliding windows that I have in the back. But we have a screen that went down that they couldn't lift up without making a bunch of noise.
What's really scary is they hide behind this box of toys that we have, and another guy hides behind the wall, and then one dude uses a glass breaker on my window, and then donkey kicks it in. That's what I heard, the glass breaker that went, and then him donkey kicking the window, and then these guys go to charge in my house to try to get the jump on us.
But lo and behold, psycho Jordan was right there going and you can see them freeze like children and then bolt. Like they were not expecting anyone to be home or they were.
And they just thought, oh, we're going to get the jump on this dude. Oh, my God.
And I happened to be right there. And I happened to have an immediately and very aggressive reaction.
And they were like, okay, bye. Thank God.
So they ran back out. Thank God.
Yeah. So they ran out the way they came.
So their plan, just to be clear, they either thought no one was home and they could just do a quick burglary or they were planning on what holding you guys hostage while they did it. Like, what's the deal? So we can see them on the cameras looking in our windows to see if people are home or if lights are on.
But these geniuses, again, who have cased our house, failed to realize that they were looking at blackout curtains. So they probably thought, oh, it's pitch black in there.
Not realizing I'm looking at a curtain. Genius.
They thought you were out of town or at dinner or something. So they probably saw our nanny pull out at a certain time and then were like, no one's home because I keep my car in the garage because I'm not an idiot.
You know, why would I park my car in the garage? Got it. So they saw some of our help come and go and they probably were like, okay, this is what time they leave every night or whatever.
And they don't come back till the next day. Oh my God.
So disturbing. It's super disturbing.
Yeah. So the cops, it was funny because I felt kind of bad.
I was like, oh my gosh, you know, like we didn't have much of a plan. You know, my, she did a good enough job, but also she's like running around the hall holding a baby.
And I'm like, you need to lock yourself in the bathroom, not be running around in the living room in circles, you know, and to her credit, it's like, well, what else are you supposed to do? You're supposed to take care of the kids. She didn't know whether to run out the front door or stay in the house like I was telling her to do.
And the answer is you stay in the house and barricade yourself in because if they're looking for you, they can just walk around your house and go find you standing in your front lawn. So that's no good.
And she's like, I don't want to be trapped though. So we have to kind of go through this whole thing.
We're going to hire a security consultant and strengthen some of our doorways and stuff like that. Because basically, once you're in the house, it's like you've got to kick through some crappy plywood painted doors to get into any other part of the house.
And that's not going to be good if my kids and wife are in the bedroom or if like we end up in the guest room or something like we need someplace where we can go. That's not just like a shoulder check away from the rest of the house.
I was kind of bummed about how it all panned out. The cops missed them by like 30 seconds too, by the way.
They ran to our neighbor's house and then you can see them running back because they were like, oh crap, the cops are coming this way and we're in the corner. So they just made it out.
They just made it out. These guys, like the cops are like, this was planned, but these guys were not.
I was really disappointed in my glass until I realized they use a glass breaker because this is triple pane tempered glass. And it really looks like this 140 pound skinny piece of shit just kicks it with his foot at his ghetto air force ones or whatever.
And, but he used a glass breaker. And as much as they had watched our house, these guys were hardly professional.
I mean, it looks like they play call of duty and they're like, we're going to charge in there. The way they reacted when I was like, hey, I'll kill you.
I mean, these are like kids who got busted with their hand in the cookie jar. These were not like, we've got an exfil plan.
I mean, they ran the wrong way towards the road and then ran back because the cops were coming. It's like you guys are not top tier talent.
No, I mean, they're not they're not sending their best. Right.
So it's like these guys were dumbasses. And the other thing that was funny was you can see on the camera where they walk because they're wearing these running shoes that have these reflective strips on them and i'm like you guys don't realize that you're actually extra visible at night if you try to hide from the cops with these shoes on you are visible from a block away with these bright ass running shoes on you morons i mean that gives me some comfort it does yeah super're not super professional or good at this, but my God, that's so disturbing.
They found a nice house and they're like, we can rob this house and let's go check the gates or whatever. But these guys are not like stealing the Maltese Falcon or whatever.
These guys are just dumb pricks that ordered some crap off of Amazon that breaks glass, really. So has it been hard to stay in the house since then? For me, no, because I'm mostly just angry.
I've got a board over the window of where I am, but my friend is, love him or hate him, my friend is Elon Musk's head of security. And I was like, what do I need to do? And he's like, here's what we have.
And he sent me some links to some pretty cool stuff, like glass that's bulletproof that are like coatings you can put over existing windows. That's you can basically take a sledgehammer to it and the glass will shatter, but it won't break.
You have a real hell of a time getting in. Of course, the problem is what happens if there's a fire and we need the firemen to get in.
They now need to run the engine through the front door because they can't break the glass. Pick your poison, I guess.
Yeah, it's pick your poison. So there's some issues there that we've got to figure out i've got to call the fire department they might be like oh yeah no we jam a crowbar in there and we like rip it out and it's no problem don't worry but i i need to make sure because it's far more likely that we have some situation like that than we have the purge 2.0 come to our house you don't live in a purgy neighborhood no is this stuff happening more in your area? It's happening more, the cops said, but also they said your house stands out in your neighborhood.
So we bought a house in a nice normal neighborhood and we tore it down because it was like a teardown. And we built another house there.
There's a few nice houses. It's our house, my brother-in-law's house, the architect who designed our houses lives next door to both of us.
And then there's two other nice houses on the street and everything else is from like 1950. They're normal houses.
They're not gross. But it's like, oh, here's a two-story house that has a brand new whatever and a Tesla in the driveway.
And the other houses are, you know, one-story ranches that have, they look normal. So if you're going to rob a house on that street, it's going to be ours because we got too much glass or my neighbors.
So of course my neighbors are like, oh crap, we are all in this area. I was about to say, I meant your neighbors must be taking notes on the security stuff that you're looking into.
Yeah, they are. They're taking notes.
And it's good because the cops said they probably won't hit our house again, the same crew, because now they realize that they can't tell when we're home. And since I didn't hurt any of them, they have no reason to have like some sort of beef with me personally.
That's comforting. Yeah.
And how are the kids since this happened? Do they understand what happened? This is what actually really pisses me off. I don't mind replacing the glass.
I don't mind that I have to do security upgrades. I slept like a rock the next night.
So it's obviously not really affecting me. Like my ordering sleep scores have been through the roof because I'm sleeping like a baby.
People should break in more often. They should break in at least once a month and reset my sleep score.
Get your eight and a half hours out of it. That's right.
The thing that really pisses me off is my daughter, who's three, keeps saying, why are there bad guys? Where are the bad guys? Are the bad guys still hiding? Are they in our house? So I'm really pissed off that these guys scared my daughter and I've been conflicted. Cause of course for me, I'm like, I really wish I'd smoked one or two of them and just let them bleed out of my lawn.
I'm sorry. I thought for a second, you're like, I really wish I smoked a fat dude before this happened.
No, that would have been, that would have been really scary. Cause it triggers my anxiety.
And this would have been like proof that it's all in your head, Jordan. Oh, no.
Someone's actually trying to break into your house. No, that would have been a terrible.
Oh, what a nightmare. 16 cops in my house.
And I'm like, no, I'm just really tired, guys. I'm just really tired.
I've just been looking at too much Reddit. That's why my eyes.
Yeah. No, I always have eyes that look like this.
It's totally normal. Yeah.
So that pisses me off because my kids are scared. But as my friend pointed out, because I was like, I really, I should have gotten my strap and just lit the window up and I would have hit at least the guy that kicked in the window and came through.
Oh my God, that's so intense. But as my friend pointed out, your daughter is scared because the bad guys that she didn't see at all on camera and the police came.

She's a little nervous. This would have been way worse if she's like, why are there two dead people in giant blood pools in our backyard slash bedroom? That would have been way worse, right? Because she would have seen or heard that.
I mean, they have to take the bodies out. I mean, it would have been hard to hide that from the kids.
So this is actually the best alternative. although I do like like most people, I'm sure who've had a break in fantasize that I should have just killed one or two of them.
Spare me the emails about how these people might have fallen on hard times. I don't care.
There's a lot of people who've fallen on hard times. They don't go breaking into other people's homes, especially while they're home to rob them.
So I actually do hope that they get lit up by the next person whose house they break into, and maybe the other two surviving guys in this crew will change their mind about how they make a living. I have zero sympathy for people like this.
They had no problem causing thousands of dollars in damage and scaring my kids. I don't even know what they would have done if they got in the house.
I'm sure they would have at the very least trashed every room looking for valuables and smashed things. And that would have been super violating.
And my wife wouldn't have wanted to live here anymore because it wouldn't have felt safe. And the cleanup would have taken weeks or months to get everything cleaned up and replaced.
So I really have zero sympathy for this kind of stuff. And the cops were like, I'm surprised you didn't go for the kill.
And I'm like, you know, I do. Yeah.
The female cop was like, I'm surprised you didn't kill one of them. I'm like, you know what? I'm actually a little bit surprised slash bummed.
And the other cop was like, no, no, no, you did the right thing. You had the perfect reaction.
Cause I was a little bit bummed. I was like, man, I really should have lit one of these dudes up.
He's like, no, because, you know, if they're in a gang, they're going to want revenge against this. And like, this is the beginning of an ongoing feud between you and them.
And he's like, what you did, which was scare the crap out of them, make them realize they don't know when you're home and when you're not, and then barricade your family safely. That was actually the right reaction.
I agree with that. But that's so intense to hear from a cop.
Yeah, you should have taken one of them out. That's what she said.
She was like, I'm surprised you didn't take at least one of them out. I was like, I did think about it.
That's not how we do things. Yeah.
Wow. That's so crazy.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, man. What the hell? This is so intense.
It happens. This was the best outcome.
Literally just pay a few grand to replace the door wall. And of course we have way more lighting, way more motion sensors, way more locks, upgrades on a lot of different stuff.
So it's, it's a, we're a harder target and we didn't have to learn this lesson by getting held at gunpoint or having our whole home trashed. Yeah.
So it's really, you guys are Very lucky. But it's still very upsetting to have this happen to you.
What's scary is like, I was robbed before in college. They broke in and stole a bunch of our stuff.
And it was a quick sort of like, hey, let's take a watch, a cell phone, an Xbox. They left a lot of other stuff.
And, you know, they took like a video camera. It was just kind of like, oh, that's a bummer.
That sucks. This is different because this is your forever home, not some crappy basement, $800 a month in Ann Arbor, Michigan apartment.
$800 was exorbitant, right? $400 a month equivalent apartment in Ann Arbor that you're going to leave in a year or six months or whatever it is. But the cops were, again, really cool.
They were just like, you can email us anytime, call us anytime, even if you just want to vent. Let us know when you feel better.
We care about you feeling at home or safe at home. And they're like, don't live in fear.
These guys are not coming back. Take this cue, upgrade your security.
I was like, are you guys real police? Because I- I was about to say, are you sure they were police? Yeah, because everything I read about in the media, it really paints you guys in a completely different light. I kid, they were really, really cool and really, really professional.
And I just thought it was funny because, first of all, they're all in the house looking over at my phone playing the security video. And one of the female cops, she looks down at my phone and then she looks down further and I realize I'm still in my underwear.
And I hand her the phone and I go, I'm going to put some pants on. And she just starts laughing.
And all the cops start laughing. And I assume the joke is, oh, he finally figured out that it's like, hey, dude, you know, you can get dressed.
You are in your own home, in your bedroom with your phone. What a scene.
So I put my pants on and we're just sort of joking around. And one of the guys was like, I got to say, man, it's a really nice house.
And I was like, I had nothing to do with the design. My brother-in-law and my wife designed it.
And he goes, is that a gym back there? I didn't check the backyard, but it looks like you had a gym back there. I was like, let me cut to the chase.
You guys can use the gym at any time. Please come back any time and use the gym, preferably after the sun sets.
Because if these guys come back and there's cops working out of the gym, I'm never getting robbed again ever. Okay.
First of all, what is this architectural digest tour that is now unfolding? It's just going to look for the guy, please. What was funny is they're clearing the house with guns.
Right. Their guns out.
And one of them goes, that's a screen back there. Yeah.
Is that crown molding? No, she goes, is that a screened in patio?

Are those heat lamps?

And the guy's like,

check the hallway.

And the other guy goes,

oh yeah, oh, okay.

Oh, this is a heavy door.

Oh, is he a streamer?

There's a lot of lighting in here.

He must be a streamer.

And they're like,

check the hallway.

Get back here.

Then they're like,

what's in that room over there?

She goes,

there's a backpack, there's a computer, there's a really nice desk in there. And that's it.
The room's clear. Cause I have this custom wooden audio desk for all my stuff that a show fan made.
And then they go in the bedroom and they go in the kid's toy room. And then they're walking through the master where the guy had broken in.
And then he's like, what's back there? And she goes, it's a hot tub on an elevated platform. And he goes, nice.
Cut to you in the hot tub with all these cops. Yes, all the cops.
Reviewing not just the security footage from a couple hours before, but like for the last several weeks. Exactly.
It was quite funny. Like leave and they go again really nice really nice house really really nice home you got here and i was just like if anybody said that and it wasn't a police officer you'd be a little bit like okay did you break into my home i mean that would explain why they arrived in four minutes oh that they were already there yeah they're like uh park a block away yeah that would explain why they arrived in four minutes.
Oh, they were already there. Yeah.
They're like, uh, park a block away. Yeah.
It would explain the response time. It would explain the reflective shoes.
These people don't have to worry about getting caught. That's right.
They were super cool, super professional. I was really impressed by that.
And I, it does make you feel a lot better. And it makes, on the flip side, when you hear about people having bad experiences with the police, it makes you feel really bad for them because it would have felt horrible if they came and they were like, yeah, someone broke in, huh? Looks like an inside job to me.
You know, and you hear about that stuff online. You read about that stuff online where cops treat people like they're the criminal after they call them.
If that happened, that would feel horrible. So since that did not happen, the opposite happened.
It actually felt really good

and really sort of, you feel like the police have your back, which is probably the only thing that

can make you feel comfortable again in a situation like this. So shout out to San Jose PD for their

help. And I know it's hard to get these guys.
You can't like buy police things. It doesn't,

you're not allowed to do that directly. There's some sort of monetary thing.
So

So what I'm trying to do is get a bunch of the show sponsors to send the police stuff directly. I got to make sure that that's kosher.
But basically, they're getting a bunch of HVMN ketones and IQ bars. AG1 for the whole department.
Exactly, yeah. They get a lot of vitamins and minerals.
New living wills and trusts for everybody in the department that's right yeah look the upside of this whole thing one of the many upsides is my my simply safe reads are going to be fire from now on because we did use those panic buttons oh that's good that was the initial way we triggered it because jen's like i can't find my phone her phone is white and it was on a white bed and was dark. So she's like, I can't find it.
So she went and hit the panic button. And that was what set off the alarm.
Now, of course, we have way more sensors in the whole house because at first we just installed what they'd given us for free with the initial package. But now we have sensors on everything and we have double sensors on some of the bigger sort of entrances and exits.
So it's again, you know, you learn to harden the target. It was a lot cheaper than even replacing the glass.
So I implore all of you, you know, if you don't have a security system, it does work. It did call the cops.
And if I weren't there to scare these guys away, the alarm, had it gone off, would have scared these guys away, I would imagine. So last but not least, thanks to everybody else who did send me messages and well wishes on Instagram.
I posted a picture of the door. I'm actually going to post the video of the guys breaking into because it's interesting.
People are just being super cool about it online. It's sort of repairing a lot of my faith in humanity after the break in as well.
Of course, the police response did that too. But everybody was like, oh my god, I'm so glad you're safe and sending really nice notes or people I've never heard from are like, okay, I've been a lurker for 10 years, but I wanted to say thanks for the show and I'm sorry that this happened to you.
I wasn't really expecting that. I really posted that to tease the idea that I'm going to talk about it on the show like I am now.
And really the takeaway was harden the target beforehand, get a security system. You know, simplisafe.com slash Jordan is a good place to start.
Get glass break sensors, make sure that your house is not like using crappy interior doorways. If you do need to retreat inside the house, get those solid core doors from Home Depot if you can find a sale and just make sure you have a plan.
You know, we really didn't have a good plan. A 10-minute discussion about where you should retreat, depending where you are in the house, would have gone a long way.
Thankfully, we didn't need it. But had they tried to get into the rest of the house and Jen had, you know, a baby in one hand in the middle of the living room, that would have been not great.
I would have personally felt better if she had retreated to the bathroom and locked the damn door. So there's other ways that you can handle this, and we just had never thought about it.
And I recommend thinking about that stuff too. So harden the target.
Make sure you got the alarm system. Make sure you got a strong interior door system.
Make sure you got a plan. That's really it.
You know what? One other takeaway, and this is just for me personally, like I said, I felt bad about not smoking one or two of those dudes because that's like my anger talking. But one of the things that the cop had said was, you know, it's fight, flight, or freeze.
And you fought and then you barricaded your house. You didn't hide under the blankets.
I was like, no one does that. He's like, uh, actually a lot of people will hide under their blankets, which of course is not very effective.
But again, if this is something you've done, according to Amanda Ripley, you can't feel ashamed of yourself because it's your natural reaction. I'm glad I didn't have that reaction, just me personally.
On the other side of things, I said, oh man, I wish I'd gotten da-da-da. And the cop was like, actually, the way people get hurt, you had the appropriate amount of fight reaction, which was charge at these guys, which I didn't see.
Remember, scream at them, scare them away and then barricade yourself and the family in a safe place. If you fight too hard, he's like the way people get hurt is they run into their yard and they tackle one of these guys.
And then the guy's like, oh, crap, now I got to pull out my knife and get away because I don't want to go to jail or get killed by the homeowner. So he's like, the way people get hurt is they fight too much, even when it's not necessary.
So what you want to do is make sure they don't feel trapped. You want to scare them right back out the way they came so that they're not thinking, oh, I'm going to die in this guy's house.
Bark, but maybe don't bite. Right.
Bark, but don't bite. Or punch him in the face, lay him out, and then you get out of the way and barricade yourself.
And then he gets up and crawls out the window he just kicked in.

That's the limit of it.

Don't try and hold him down until the police come.

That's how you get shot by their partner or stabbed.

So, all right.

What's the first thing out of the mailbag?

Hello, Jordan and Gabe. I'm a traveling nurse.

And up until six months ago, I was friends with a physician who knowingly started a two-and-a-half-year affair with a seriously mentally ill, drug-addicted patient of hers. My friend said that, at first, the taboo and secrecy of the affair were exhilarating, although she knew it was wrong.
But the relationship quickly devolved into abuse. My friend said she felt compelled to stay for as long as she did out of fear of escalating physical violence and the patient's constant threats to tell her employer and family about the relationship.
She ended up quitting the job where she met this client due to unsavory rumors before she could be terminated, then abruptly pivoted to another position. Four months later, her affair partner ended up spilling everything during an unfortunate psych hospitalization.
When the secret came out, she was fired by her new employer, which then filed a report with the medical board for an ethics violation. God, what a mess.
What a predictable mess. The medical board conducted an investigation and published the findings on the state's website, but my friend hired a very expensive employment attorney to represent her, and in my opinion, the worst of the lurid details and the overall degree of harm were severely underrepresented.
Her license is now suspended, and last I heard, she's trying to get it reinstated. This was a large part of why I ultimately decided to end our friendship.
I just couldn't believe her when she said she fully understood the harm she had done, and that it wouldn't happen again in the future. Also, this isn't the first affair she's had.
This one just had the worst fallout. Meanwhile, her husband of 15 years has stuck by her through every infidelity.
Oh, geez. I believe my friend 100% when she says she was afraid of this patient, and I'm upset by the thought that she felt trapped by a scary, abusive person for so long.
But I'm also really disturbed and can't get over what I see as my friend's brazen willingness to overlook her professional ethics and take advantage of a vulnerable, unstable person to meet her own selfish needs. Framed like that, I do kind of blame her for what happened during the affair, but only in the very beginning, when she had more power in the relationship and chose to open that door.
She says that I'm being an unsupportive friend for taking that moralistic stance, which unfairly flattens her experience of the fear and abuse, and that that makes me not only a bad person, but also an unprofessional practitioner engaging in a disgusting amount of victim blaming. Okay.
But this whole situation has made me question whether that's fair. I don't want to be seen as an unapproachable friend for fear of judgment, and I'm having a tough time parsing my emotions.
Am I being unfair and overly rigid in my judgment of my friend here? Signed, am I a clear thinker, or am I just pointing a finger? Wow, this is a wild story, man. Fascinating.
Isn't it insane? First of all, I'm with you. I'm very sorry that your friend got involved with what sounds like a very troubled, very dangerous patient.
I'm sorry for his troubles to some degree too, and I'm sorry that she overlooked them or just didn't recognize how serious they were or would become, or maybe she totally did, and just decided not to let that stop her. The abuse that she experienced, the blackmail, all of that must have been terrifying, and it sounds like your friend went through a nightmare, and that's awful.
And your friend chose to enter into a romantic relationship with this guy, knowing that he was mentally ill, knowing that he struggled with addiction while she was married and not for the first time, knowing that that was wrong, knowing that it was a violation of her professional ethics and would get her fired and put her in a compromising position that that guy would have leverage over her. I mean, come on.
As you know, physicians have a clear ethical obligation to avoid romantic relationships with patients. Healthy, unhealthy, stable, unstable, sober, off the wagon, doesn't matter, it's a no-go.
The American Medical Association and most, if not all, state medical boards, they strictly prohibit relationships between doctors and patients because it exploits the power imbalance inherent in the physician-patient relationship. And engaging in a romantic relationship with a patient who has mental health challenges, that's particularly unethical because the patient's vulnerability increases the potential for exploitation or harm.
And the power dynamic in the relationship is even more complicated. Now, there are some exceptions to this.
The main one, of course, is if enough time has passed to dissolve the physician-patient relationship and any influence it might have had. But even then, the appropriateness of the relationship depends on the nature of the previous relationship, the amount of time that has passed, the patient's mental health, their capacity to give informed consent, none of which apply to your friend because she started seeing her patient while he was still her patient.
So it makes sense that the medical board did an investigation that her license was suspended as it should be. These ethics, they are not just nice words.
If you violate them, if somebody files a report, you can lose your whole career. Duh.
That's the point. Gabe, this is reminding me of that letter we took from the listener whose psychiatrist hit on her a few months ago last year.
Oh, yeah. Am I remembering this right? He lost his license, too.
Or wasn't he sort of like, I'm going to retire now quickly. Yeah, I think he voluntarily gave up his license to avoid a full investigation.
That was episode 931, by the way. And then we aired the update to that story on episode 961.
Fascinating story. Some parallels there.
These doctors, man, I just don't understand how they make these decisions. Obviously, there's something wrong with them.
Now, look, your friend didn't know this guy would turn out to be so dangerous. So I have some, some compassion for her there.
Once the abuse really began, I'm sure she was terrified and in over her head. And that's awful.
But you're absolutely correct. She brazenly flouted her professional ethics in getting involved with this patient.
She placed her own needs first. This is not her first affair.
This is apparently a pattern for her. She had more power in the relationship at the start and she actively chose to engage with them.
And that decision could arguably be construed as taking advantage of a vulnerable patient, even if it ultimately turned out that he was the one taking advantage of her. Now, apparently that that's hard for her to take in.
But that's not victim blaming. And actually, calling that victim blaming, in my opinion, it's kind of an insult to actual victims.
What you're saying is, you experienced abuse from an unstable person. That was objectively horrifying.
And you have my empathy and my sadness that this scary guy treated you this way. And you bear some responsibility, a great deal of the responsibility, I would argue, for getting involved with this guy in the first place.
You knowingly entered into a relationship that was explicitly proscribed and clearly very risky. Both of those things can be true.
And both of those things are true. Yeah.
And the fact that she's responding to that by saying, you're being an unsupportive friend, you're being moralistic, you're what was it? Flattening my experience of the fear, the abuse. You're a bad person.
It's nuts. I'm sorry.
That's insane. She is a kook for coming to that conclusion.
That's ridiculous. If that's actually what she said, what I'm hearing is a person who is just deflecting hard.
I mean, there's a lot of projection happening. This, you know, what she's had, like a dozen affairs or whatever it was from her partner of 15 years.
It's always somebody else's fault. You got to support me.
This person, she's also got whatever sort of mental health challenge going on with her. Dude, you're an unsupportive friend.
After she literally told her, hey, I believe you 100% when you say you were afraid of this guy. I'm upset by the thought that you felt trapped by a scary, abusive person for so long.
You're an unprofessional practitioner. That's the one that gets me.
Like, what are you talking about? What are you freaking talking about? She's the one who started banging her mentally ill patient. What on earth is wrong with you? So unprofessional.
Obviously, this brings up some very big questions about her mental state, to your point. I mean, this old friend of hers is either a bit unstable or not fully in touch with reality, or she is so ashamed of what she did that she feels she has no choice but to project all of that shame and hurt and fear onto our friend here, right? Because it's just too uncomfortable.
Either way, this woman is isolating herself. If she can't even make room for the idea that she might have played a little bit of a role in all this, there's no real conversation to be had.
I agree. My only caveat is we don't know exactly how you articulated all of this to your friend.
I mean, if you said to her everything you shared with us, then I am 100% with Jordan. You're saying and doing all the right things.
You're on solid ground. If you jumped maybe a little too quickly to pointing out her many mistakes or which, by the way, not totally out of line on your part.
I'm just saying if you did do that a little quickly or if you didn't communicate your empathy as clearly as you did in your letter or you made this conversation primarily about the ethics thing and she felt misunderstood or overly judged or whatever, then I might might understand part of her reaction. Maybe I don't get the sense that that's what happened.
No, look, it doesn't change the fact that she chose to sleep with a vulnerable, unstable patient. She screwed up massively, full stop.
I don't know if I would be kind. If someone called me and was like, I painted myself into this corner, I'd be like, oh man, I'm really sorry that you're in that situation.
You do realize this is 100% your fault, right? You're an idiot. I don't want to be friends with you anymore.
You're toxic. Go away.
What I'm wondering is, does her reaction to our friend here also speak to her personality? I think the answer is almost certainly yes. Yeah.
Does it explain some of her questionable decision-making when it came to engaging with a patient? It must, right? I don't think his qualities just pop up out of the blue. She's got her dumb enabling partner with her too, is stuck with her through all that infidelity.
Like, geez, get away from these people. Yeah, that's an interesting subplot.
I mean, that guy is putting up with a lot. I'm just picturing this woman three years ago trying to decide whether to get involved with this guy.
And if she's a person who struggles to control her impulses, who's not very self-aware, who clearly can't bear other people's appropriate judgment of her, who can't confront aspects of herself that are concerning, all of which showed up in these conversations with our friend here. I could also see that person throwing caution to the wind and sleeping with a patient she knows is bad news.
Right. To say nothing of what else she might have been getting out of their relationship.
Well, let's also remember that one thing she was getting out of it was a thrill. She said that at first the taboo and secrecy of the affair were exhilarating, although she knew it was wrong.
I mean, I completely forgot about that part. Okay.
This, this woman is cuckoo for Cocoa puffs. Like, Oh yeah, I'm breaking all these rules.
It's a real thrill. You're just going to gamble with your marriage and your career.
Cause you need a thrill. You are, there is screws, multiple screws loose with you.
That's one way to put it. The other way to put it is that we're hearing about a person who's thinking sounds very black or white.
You know, she probably struggles to hold multiple feelings, straddle multiple perspectives. So it sounds like from this doctor friend's point of view, she's either a totally blameless victim or she's a reckless, predatory monster.
And her friend, the woman writing in, is either a loyal, compassionate champion, or she's this judgmental, moralizing enemy. The reality is that both are true to some degree.
I don't think our friend here writing in is the enemy, but the doctor friend could try to have a foot in both of those realities. Yeah, especially the first part.
What I don't get is why is that so hard? I mean, this woman's story is literally a perfect example of how two things can be true. She chose to engage with a mentally ill patient and he did some awful things to her.
Those are the facts. So, you know, why fight it? I mean, yeah, but this is the challenging thing about personalities like this.
It can be a little bit disturbing to confront that there are some people who really can't do that. I do think the shame is a big part of this.
I would not be surprised if this woman struggles to bear that particular feeling, probably a lot of difficult feelings. I also think that holding multiple feelings and multiple truths at the same time can be very distressing for some personalities more than others.
It can be hard to just bear the tension of that. But also black or white thinking, that's also an example of what's called splitting.
Splitting. Okay, I've never heard of this.
Tell me about this. So splitting is a really interesting defense mechanism and people tend to engage in it when they need to cope again with painful or overwhelming feelings because splitting simplifies the world.
It takes a complicated situation or an ambiguous situation like this one, and it turns them into categories that are more easily understood. So when someone engages in splitting, people become all good or all bad, right? Like totally loving or totally judgmental and situations become, you know, totally supportive or completely unfair.
There's very little, if any, gray area. It does sound like what's going on here.
That's fascinating. I didn't realize that was a coping mechanism.
Wait, didn't her friend accuse her of flattening her experience of the fear and abuse, whatever that means? She did say that. Yeah.
But isn't that exactly what she's doing by being so black or white about this? Isn't splitting the way that you flatten her experience of herself so that it's more tolerable? That's wow. Good point.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, just lawyering up over here. If you're going to use therapy speak, I'm going to use that lawyer.
So once again, she's accusing our friend here of doing the very thing that she's doing. And our friend here isn't, by the way, even doing that, in my opinion.
And meanwhile, she can't even make room for the idea that she might have played even some small role in this, which is ridiculous. Cool projection, bro.
That is fascinating. Yeah.
Betterhelp.com slash Jordan. Just saying.
Jeez. Yeah.
Nice plug. You know what I really like about this letter? It raises an interesting question, which is what do we owe our friends when they make a really big mistake? That's a big one because, yeah, well, it depends obviously.
It does depend. Every situation is unique, of course.
And I think everyone's values are different. You know, different people have different thresholds for what they're willing to put up with from their friends.
But generally speaking, I think people deserve precisely what our friend here offered this woman, empathy, curiosity, understanding, nuance, and also the willingness to say, yo, these are values that I actually believe in. These are the standards that we all need to hold ourselves to.
I hold the rest of my friends to the same bar. I personally don't find that judgmental.
I find that appropriately discerning, you know, like having some basic strong values around behavior. That's empowering actually, because what she's saying is, Hey, at the end of the day, we're still responsible for ourselves here, especially when you're the doctor.
Yeah, dude, same. You have to take accountability for your piece of things, even when they're not entirely your fault.
Although I still feel this woman largely brought this on herself or at least was playing with fire. The rules are there for freaking reason.
I think a lot of people have a skewed sense of what judgmental means or when it's warranted and when it's not warranted. First of all, expecting people, even people who love you, to not be judgmental at all.
What is that? That's some kind of fantasy. We're all judgmental to some degree, some of us more than others.
And yeah, it's generally more helpful to be less judgmental than more. Fine.
but I don't know if it's fair to expect a friend and it's definitely not fair to expect a colleague

in your profession to not have any thoughts and feelings about something as important as professional ethics because also not all judgments are wrong like you said there is such a thing as helpful values appropriate discernment so when this friend turns around and goes you're being judgmental you're flattening my experience with your moralizing okay that's a totally bogus argument. This woman deserves some judgment.
She doesn't necessarily deserve cruelty. She doesn't necessarily deserve to be hated or whatever, but a fair reminder that she abandoned her good judgment and ethics is totally fair game.
And like Gabe said, how you communicate all this to her, that obviously plays a big role in how she experiences your judgment. But a person who can't tolerate other people having a freaking opinion about whether she was right or wrong to sleep with a mentally ill patient under her care, I'm sorry, but that person is narcissistic and possibly delusional or just incredibly naive and annoying.
So no, you're not being unfair here. You know, you're not being overly rigid, especially given how this woman has responded to you.
If she'd gone, oh God, I'm really angry at you for not taking my side. I feel gross about how you view me.
I feel like I was the victim, but I also chose to sleep with him. I'm embarrassed.
I'm confused. I'm ashamed.
That would be a different story. That would be a person making room for both realities, living with the tension of what happened to her, like Gabe said.
But as long as she is choosing to understand what happened to her through this lens, I'm afraid she's being unfair and rigid. And, you know, maybe that's not entirely her fault in the sense that God knows what happened in her life to make her this way.
But as we talk about all the time, this is her responsibility to sort out and get her shit together. In my view, you're good to move on.
I would not want to be friends with anybody like this. You should feel secure in your standards and your values.
Look, I hope this woman finds her way into therapy, into more nuance, into better choices from here on out. But I don't see why you have to be around any of this crap in the meantime.
I wouldn't touch this person with a 10-foot pole. And now, please support our sponsors so I can put a laser sight on my 9mm.
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Now back to Feedback Friday. All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, both my parents immigrated to the U.S., spoke some English, and were very religious.
They had six children, and I am the oldest. I played a key part in raising my brothers and sisters and also protecting them as my parents were physically and emotionally abusive.
Many years later, my parents acknowledged that they were limited parents, but they still pick favorites among their children. You guessed it right.
I'm the responsible one, but not their favorite. Do you think this person means that they said that? Or is that just like in the air? You know, that's interesting.
They just get the sense that that's what it is. It's hard to say that somebody would say that.
I think it just becomes really obvious. There's people I know where I'm like, wow, your brother is really the favorite in the family.
And it's like, I know. They'll buy him a car and a house and they're like, you need to get a job.
She's like, what? I mean, that's like a blatant example. I mean, that's hard enough, but when that happens and you were the one who was tasked with raising the rest of them because they were abusive, that's really painful.
Yeah, no, that's that's messed up. I've worked through these issues over time and have managed to create a peaceful and happy life for myself and my husband.
That is fantastic. I love that.
On the rare occasion that I visit my family, they're kind to my husband, say hello, and even call or text him. Recently, I gave my sister a gift at her birthday, and she texted my husband thank you.
He walks in the warm sunshine of my family, while I'm still stuck in the arctic chill. We generally have a strong marriage, but this really hurts.
I've explained to him how it makes me feel, and that my expectation is that he'd draw boundaries by reflecting to my family members that if they want to say something to me, they shouldn't communicate through him. My husband also comes from a broken home and will not visit his family without me.
He likes having me there because he says they treat him better when I'm around. His family knows that I support my husband 100% and don't say anything bad about him to me because they know that I back him.
Yet my family treats my husband very well and me poorly. My husband has seen how they treat me and acknowledges that it's wrong, but he doesn't stand up for me either.
How do I deal with this no-win situation? Signed, feeling screwed and looking for a way through. This Kobayashi Maru.
Koba what? Yeah, I hadn't heard of this either. The listener came up with this one.
So the Kobayashi Maru, I guess it's a training exercise in Star Trek. I did not know about this.
Okay. Apparently it's some kind of no-win scenario that's designed to test a cadet's character and skills.
Honestly, it just sounds like a ramen place. Sounds like something you'd order at the sushi restaurant.
That's right. I'll have the Kobayashi Maru.
All right. Excellent choice, sir.
Yeah. Sounds pricey.
Yeah. There's the omakase and then there's the Kobayashi Maru.
And then there's the Kobayashi Maru. For special occasion.
Look, I'm not a Star Trek guy, obviously, so I've never heard of it, but that's fitting, isn't it? Because this does sound like a no-win situation, and in a way, I guess these two families, they are designed to test her character, her emotional skills. So let's start by acknowledging just how difficult these parents must be.
They were physically and emotionally abusive, which is terrible. They apparently pick favorites among their children, which I can't really wrap my head around as a parent.
I don't know if they do this overtly or subtly, but either way, that's, yeah, it's super hurtful. And then parentified from a young age, which always does a number on a kid.
It does, yeah. It's sort of one of those things where parents probably think it's okay in the moment, and then it just turns out to be a really bad idea.
She's the oldest. It sounds like she became a surrogate mother and or father to her siblings, and she felt a responsibility to protect them, which means she probably lost out on having a real childhood of her own.
And that comes with its own unique trauma. And then years later, all her parents are going to say, this is what really pisses me off.
They were limited. That's just, yeah.
Comically understated. Yeah.
Seriously. Good effort, guys.
Well, we were limited. What a euphemism that makes me want to punch somebody in the face.
You maybe want to dig into that a little bit more, mom and dad. Can you try? That's talk about not accepting a shred of responsibility.
I mean, clearly they can't really try. It must be painful for them.
Maybe it's impossible to just even go near that topic, you know, brings up a lot, I would imagine. Yeah.
Maybe they have no idea the damage they caused. I'm honestly not sure which is worse, but either way, that makes all of this harder.
But I'm happy to hear that you've worked through some of these issues over time, that you've created a life that's peaceful and happy. That's a massive accomplishment.
I'm sure it took a lot of time and a lot of work. And honestly, that's the greatest victory you could have over a family like this.
Being healthy, being fulfilled, having a successful marriage. So you've already won.
But I'm also hearing that there's still this wound here, which, you know, of course there is. And it's getting activated whenever you visit your family, which makes sense.
And even more when you see your family being super nice to your husband. Honestly, that behavior is so odd.
It makes me wonder if there's something big that we're just not getting here. Like, do they have some reason for treating your husband better? Is there some reason they prefer to go through him? I was wondering the same, but I assume she would have told us if there were some glaring reason that her family is nicer to her husband.
It just sounds like they're just nicer to him. They're not as kind to her.
Yeah. She would have told us.
Yeah. She would have said something, right? Unless she's trying to shape the narrative here, but given that everything her parents have done, I'm getting the sense that she's not the bad guy here.
I can only assume that your family finds it easier to be nice to your husband because your relationships with them are fraught because they've probably become strained over the years and they just, it's easier to interact with this new guy. Or your siblings might be working through their own complicated feelings about you based on this childhood, which affected everybody.
Right. I'm sure they each have their own traumas.
The wounds always echo in every relationship in a family. Even the siblings who are your parents' favorites.
I mean, being treated as exceptional, as more loved or more approved of than another sibling, that's also damaging. You know, whether they recognize that as a wound or feel it's a point of pride, I imagine that that's also informing how they treat her.
Right. So there's a lot going on in your family.
Whereas your husband came into the picture long after that. He doesn't carry any of these old wounds, these patterns.
So it might be easier for your family to be kind to him. And, you know, now that I think about it, being nice to him, maybe in some weird way, that's actually their way of being nice to you.
Because their relationship with you isn't the greatest or because you guys struggle to express yourselves, I wonder if they might be giving your husband that kindness and hoping it somehow transfers to you. That's a charitable interpretation of what's happening.
I might be totally wrong, but it could be in the mix. And all that said, I don't think any of this is cool.
I completely understand why you find this hurtful. Yeah, I do too.
And I'm not totally sure that it's fair to hold it against your husband. You want him to pull back.
You want him to say, hey, if you want to say something to your sister, don't text me, make it a group chat, pick up the phone. And I get it.
Maybe that would be a nice thing for him to do. Maybe hearing that would make your siblings realize that they're not being the most thoughtful to you.
And if your husband wants to play that role, it's an option and it might be an interesting approach. He can also do that in a slightly less confrontational way than what you're imagining.
He could say, Hey guys, you know, just so you know, Mary is actually the one who chose that gift for you. She put some thought into it.
I'm sure it would mean a lot if you texted her, thank you directly, you know, something like that. Yeah, that's nice.
I'd be curious to see how they'd respond to that. If it would change anything, maybe it would require something stronger.
These siblings seem tough. Even if nothing changed, that would still be good for you and your husband to know.
But look, I'm sure that part of what hurts here is that this dynamic they have with your husband, it's kind of recreating the whole wound from your parents, isn't it? They're choosing someone close to you over you, in a way. And it feels like no one is really standing up for you, which is precisely what you must have felt growing up.
You were the responsible one. You were the one making sure everybody else was safe, that everybody else was well cared for.
And based on what you've shared, it sounds like no one was really doing the same for you. So of course this hurts extra hard.
And of course you

want your husband to stand up for you. I get it.
I also think it's important to see that this anger and the sadness that you feel, which by the way, totally appropriate and important, but they might not be feelings you can reasonably ask your husband to fix on his own. Because first of all, I'm not convinced that he can, although it might be worth giving it a shot.
Second, even if he does succeed, that's not going to change the past. Healing that pain is something that only you can ultimately do.
And you would still be interacting with a family that, whether they intend to or not, seems to cause you a lot of pain. Your parents anyway, sometimes your siblings, since they seem pretty unlikely to change at this point.
Right, so what can her husband really do about that? He might be able to change the surface behavior a little bit, but there's no guarantee that she won't still get injured. I guess what I'm inviting her to do is to be more curious about what she's actually bringing to her husband when she asks him to do this.
What are her expectations around this request? Because given who her parents are and how they treated her and the role that she played in this family, I think what she's asking her husband here is more than just, hey, can you be on my team? Can you help me out? I have to imagine that there's a wish buried in that request, kind of a longing, a very profound longing to not feel alone, to not feel undefended, to not be abandoned again. And again, that is so fair.
But as a starting point, it might be helpful for her to fully appreciate what she is actually asking her husband to do, what she's saying to him, and why it hurts her so much when he doesn't stand up to them, which whether that's his job to do or not, is ultimately not his fault. But I can see why her anger is being directed at him, because he's now the proximate cause of her pain.
She's saying, help me, stand up for me. And he's gone.
Okay, maybe let's see. Or maybe he's just straight up saying no.
But what you're saying is she might feel like he's hurting her or letting her down by not trying to rewrite her family dynamics, which really this pain is just her parents all over again, but located in him. Yeah, exactly.
And if she sees that it won't fix everything overnight, but it might help her feel a little less pain around it or give her a better sense of where to direct that pain. And at that point, I hope that she would be in a better position to decide what to do about this anger, about the sadness, because, you know, maybe she decides that she does need her husband to help her with her siblings.
But if nothing changes, maybe it won't hurt as much because she'll now have better expectations. She'll know what she's invested in this outcome.
Or maybe she decides, you know what, I'm going to text my siblings myself. I was kind of outsourcing that to my husband.
Now I see why, but let me give this a go, you know, and maybe she texts them like, Hey guys, it's really sweet that you text Dan. I love that you guys have a relationship with him.
But if you ever want to say something to me, just text me or text us both, you know, it would mean a lot to me and it would really help us stay close. nice I love that you guys have a relationship with him.
But if you ever want to say something to me, just text me or text us both.

You know, it would mean a lot to me and it would really help us stay close.

Nice.

I like that.

Or who knows?

She might decide to take this anger and sadness to her parents.

You know, hey, mom.

Hey, dad.

I know this is tough to talk about, but there's some stuff about my childhood that I'd like

to share with you.

Or there are some things you guys do today that still kind of hurt my feelings.

And I'd like to work on it if you're open to that.

Right.

Go straight to the source if these parents can even hear that.

Yeah, like maybe... There are some things you guys do today that still kind of hurt my feelings, and I'd like to work on it if you're open to that.
Right. Go straight to the source if these parents can even hear that.
Yeah. Like, maybe they can, maybe they can't.
But in a way, that's not really the point. The point is, how can she be fully in touch with this wound? How can she have a better handle on her expectations for how it gets resolved? And in a world where her family doesn't treat her any better, can she learn to hold this anger and the sadness and the grief on her own and find her own ways of working through it? That's what her letter is really about, I think.
Wow. Yeah.
Because that's a very different person saying those things. It's also a very different person learning to heal this wound if her siblings brush this off, which I hope that doesn't happen, but it might.
And then what? She might not be mad at her husband anymore, but she'll still have to make sense of this old pain, which now that I think about it, is that another unconscious wish buried in this request to her husband? Is she maybe hoping that he'll stand up to her siblings, that all will be well, and then she won't have to be in touch with the pain at all? It's just something to consider, maybe another contour to all this. All right, I just want to point out one other thing about this letter, which is the symmetry between these two families.
Yeah, that is fascinating. Let's talk about that.
He also comes from a broken home. He won't visit his family without her.
He says they treat him better when she's around. Obviously, I find it interesting they both come from difficult families and they both struggle in different ways with their parents.
I'm sure that's part of their bond. They have that shared experience there, but that's also part of why she's angry because she stands up for her husband and he's not doing the same thing for her.
So that gives her more ammunition, so to speak. But does that automatically mean that he should intervene in her family the way that she apparently does or is willing to do in his? Do these two families respond to messages like this in the same way? Maybe that is reasonable to expect, but also maybe she's assuming that he'll have the exact same results when the dynamics are possibly totally different.
It's just one last thing to consider. Again, I'm very sorry that your family's treating you this way.
It sucks. I hope you find a way to improve these dynamics if that's possible.
And I also hope that you'll find the acceptance and courage to bear the grief of potentially discovering that you can't change the dynamics. Because that's possible too.
And while I'm totally rooting for you, that might be the superpower that your family is here to teach you. Sending you and your husband a big hug and wishing you both the best.
You can reach us Friday at jordanharbinger.com. Keep your emails concise.
Use descriptive subject lines. If you're hiding a dark family secret from your partner, a narcissistic, gun-loving fascist that's hijacked your friend group, or you're locked in a never-ending custody battle with your psychotic ex, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday at jordanharbinger.com.
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Come check it out, jordanharbinger.com slash news. All right, what's next? Dear Jordan and Gabe, I've worked in my current company for almost 15 years.
Our brand is currently number one in our industry. It was privately owned when I started and has since gone public during my time here.
Recently, the CEO of our parent company announced that our headquarters will be moving from our current blue-collar city to a much larger metropolis. Associates are being given the choice to opt in or out for the move.
If we opt in, we receive some pay increase and assistance with moving expenses. If we opt-out, we receive a six-month severance, but only if we stay until a certain date, which is still being determined.
The best estimate for the big move is around two years. I have a wife and kids, and am well settled in my current location, so I have no interest in moving.
I haven't received my pay package yet,

but from what I've heard from those who have, it doesn't even cover the cost of living difference.

Now I'm stuck deciding between jumping ship now and missing out on my severance,

or sticking it out till the end and entering an unknown job market years from now. If I leave now,

I leave a significant amount of money on the table. But if I stay, I worry what work life will turn into as associates begin to leave and remaining associates become less engaged.
Also, our executives estimate that only 10 to 20% of associates will make the move. I fear that it will be far less.
Hearing that and knowing they're okay losing 80% of the company that helped us reach number one in our industry really hurts. What advice do you have? Any Dark Jordan suggestions? How do I stay motivated if I do stay? Signed, in a bad mood about this headquarter move, should I stay and get paid or avoid getting played? Yeah, interesting question.
So first of all, I can see why this big decision is bringing up all these big questions and probably some intense feelings.

Anxiety, fear, sadness, a lot of unknowns here.

Unknowns are stressful and they're confusing.

I know this can be overwhelming, especially because you have so little control here.

In a way, you do have a big choice to make.

Make the move to the new city or stay put.

Although it sounds like in a way you've already made that choice.

You want to stay.

The real choice is how long to stay put. Do you leave now? Do you leave in a year or two?

And you have some good reasons either way. Basically, the variables are money, morale,

motivation, and job prospects in a year, 18 months, two years. Okay, fine.
But here's the thing. You

can't predict the future. You don't have control over most of this.
And most importantly, you're

trying to game out scenarios without having access to all the information. What the economy

is thing. You can't predict the future.
You don't have control over most of this. And most importantly, you're trying to game out scenarios without having access to all the information.
What the economy is going to be like down the road, how your company is going to operate with fewer employees, how future you is going to feel in that new environment. You're trying to make a perfect decision amid a ton of uncertainty, which is impossible.
So you're not wrong to be asking these questions. They're good questions.
I'm just not sure that they're going to lead you to very helpful answers. So my take is this.
Rather than

try to make this decision perfectly now, I would start proactively working on all the things you'd

want to have in place when you do make this decision. I'm talking about the nuts and bolts.

Your relationships, warming up your connections, making new ones, getting a sense of what jobs are

out there right now, putting feelers out, creating a good tribe for yourself, all of that, your skills, your knowledge, your talent, getting clear on what you have to offer, filling in any gaps in your experience, learning how to tell that story, continuing to perform well at your job, paying attention to the signals that are telling you to either stay or leave, reading the tea leaves, and generally just creating as many opportunities as possible for yourself. Because having a job offer in hand, that's concrete, that's real.
Then you'd be in a position to go, do I take this offer now or do I stick it out another six months and get my severance? Or do I somehow push this offer by six months so I can enjoy both? Whatever that looks like. But trying to game out a hypothetical decision in a hypothetical future, that's only going to send you around and around in circles.
And it's mostly pointless because there really isn't a decision to make. So the best advice I can give you is don't torture yourself with confusion.
Don't drive yourself crazy with speculation. You need to channel that energy into investing in yourself, creating concrete opportunities for yourself.
That's ultimately all that matters. And that's actually all you can control.
And I promise if you do that, the right decision will become obvious to you. You won't have to think about it so much.
Whereas you can debate forever about something that doesn't really even exist. Yeah, good point.
I totally agree with that. Also, I find it really interesting that he has such an emotional connection to this place.
You know, he's loyal and he's passionate. And I find that really sweet.
I mean, that says a lot about him. He

sounds like a really solid employee, but his company is also making a big decision here.

They're trying to move the whole company to another city from this blue collar town where

he lives to this big, like they're moving them to New York city or something. They're apparently

willing to lose like 80% of their staff along the way.

Yeah, 80 or 90%, which is bananas.

This is them trying to figure out how to just take down the entire company.

I don't really understand what they're doing.

Yeah, I mean, that did occur to me.

It makes me wonder if this might just be an easy way for them to clean house without having

to fire 80 to 90% of their staff, or at least to find out who's, you know, quote unquote,

serious enough to stick with them.

But either way, it's a brutal decision. So I know this hurts.
And that's part of what he's wrestling with. And how is he going to stay motivated when his colleagues start to leave and all of that.
But given what his parent company is doing here, I do think it's worth asking if this emotional investment in this place still makes sense. You know, I get why he feels that way, because he worked there for 15 years years and he helped get them to number one.
So his investment is beautiful and is logical, but this might be one of those tea leaves that you just mentioned, Jordan, you know, time to notice when your attachment to this place is not always being reciprocated or reflected by your employer. And maybe that'll also make it easier for you to know when to leave, when to make this decision.
Yeah, I don't get it. This is going to be one of those things where they find out later, like private equity actually acquired the company and they were going to fire everyone.
And this is just an easier, cheaper way to not do that. Or they're positioning the company for private equity and they're just trying to slash costs could be right.
Yeah. Yeah.
And good point, by the way, because like why torture yourself with sentimentality? Why worry about how you're going to stay motivated when your company's really just trying to get rid of everyone and clean house? That energy might be misplaced. I get it.
All change hurts. But on that note, I would encourage you to become as friendly as possible with uncertainty.
You strike me as a guy who likes to plan, who likes to control, who likes to know I'm the same way. So I get it.
But the older I get, the more I realize what a fool's errand that actually is. It's a little terrifying to accept, but we're in control of so little in life.
And it's important to know when to control and when to just allow. But that's why it's so important to focus on the handful of things that you do control.
Your body, your mind, your story, your relationships. And you have to do that not knowing exactly where they're going to take you and how those dots are going to connect up.
But they always do. Trust that taking care of those things will take care of you.
And I know you'll be great. Good luck.
And now, some exhilarating deals that won't blow up your entire life. We'll be right back.
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Now, back to Feedback Friday.

All right, now for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted to lit filler.
My recommendation of the week is a docuseries called Bailin Out Loud. Jordan, have you heard about this show? No, no, no, no.
Everything I've been watching recently has been about how to shoot targets in the dark. You got, you're like on, what is Yeah, exactly.
I'm watching like dudes with beards and tattoos talk about how to clear your house. Yeah, also very useful.
So Balin Out Loud is this reality show about a young woman named Balin Dupree who became famous on TikTok because she has a very severe case of Tourette's syndrome. And specifically, she has this, I guess it's a type of Tourette's syndrome or it's a type of tick called coprolalia, which is basically a disorder that's characterized by involuntary repetitive movements and the tendency to use obscene, inappropriate, offensive language.
And she would post videos of herself doing like really normal things like baking or, you know, cooking or hanging out with her family or friends or whatever. And then she just yells out the most, I got to say that the funniest and most offensive ticks you can imagine.
And the thing about her, I mean, I don't know much about her personally. I'm starting to get a little bit of a sense from the show, but she has a really good sense of humor about it.
And I think she, she knows and everybody around her knows that the ticks that she picks up, the things she screams out, the gestures she makes are objectively hilarious. but they're also really deeply debilitating and they're preventing her from living what we

consider like a normal life. Like she can't live on her own.
She could hurt herself in the kitchen. She can't easily go out in public.
When she does go out in public, it often, she creates a scene and people stare or they get offended or whatever. But the way her TikTok and Instagram accounts just really capture like the duality of her disorder is fascinating.
It's

like she's kind of celebrating how absurd and funny her tics are. And she's also shining a light on how serious this syndrome is.
So there's a new docuseries on TLC, which you can find streaming on max that follows her all around. And I got to say, I'm not really a reality TV guy.
No, I am riveted by this show.

And it really shows you parts of her life that her Instagram account, her TikTok account do not really get into. Those are great too.
But this gets into her personal life and what she's trying to do and her struggles to individuate from her family and settle into an adult relationship, get a career, get a job when she really can't control a lot of what she does and says. It has really opened my eyes to what it means to live with a disability in addition to being objectively entertaining.
And I got to say, Jordan, there's this one moment in the show. She's at a particularly difficult moment, I think.
And she says, I don't know what to make of this. Why was I born with the syndrome? Why am I this way? And she says something so heartbreaking.
She says something to the effect of, I love God. Why did God make me this way? I know there must be a reason.
Like I have something to offer the world. I have a meaningful life to live, but it's so hard for me to do that with this disorder.
And she's like, the show is basically watching her figure out what that purpose is and how she can be a full human being when she lives with this thing it is and then after that she said she does it constantly but dude the tics are so much more absurd and so much more specific than what you just said like you have to watch it it's so riveting I really deeply feel for somebody who has to deal with something like that like you can't go to the mall and eat tacos with your friends because you might do something and then parents are calling security because you're doing this around their kids and you're just like i have a disability i can't help it it's yeah it's terrible imagine dating like i've got tourettes and someone's like oh i have you know whatever I've got a like a prosthetic leg and you go show up and you're like, OK, I can't be around this person. Are you kidding? We're going to get arrested.
I mean, that's one of the most interesting parts of the show. She has a boyfriend and they're in love and he's like very understanding.
But there are unique challenges in their relationship when they go out in public. It's it's really something.
I think you guys are going to like it. We'll link to it in the show notes.
And you can talk about it in our subreddit over at the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. A lot of interesting conversations happening over there.
If you're a Reddit user, we talk about episodes. We talk about random stuff that's recommended in the episodes.
Go find it on Reddit. If you're a Redditor, it's the Jordan Harbinger subreddit.
All right. What's next? So our last letter today is an update from the guy who was essentially reverse catfishing his catfisher.
That was episode 1093. Insane story.

So I've been waiting for this. For anybody who didn't catch that episode real quick, this is the guy that was, I think it was in his 40s, married to a woman, but they've been living separate lives for a while.
And one day he gets some flirty messages from a pretty woman online. He does a reverse image search of her photo and he discovers that it actually belongs to a different woman entirely.
And then he tracks down that woman and she tells him that her ex-boyfriend used her pictures for this kind of thing in the past. And then he finds out that her ex-boyfriend, he realizes it's his wife's cousin's boyfriend, right? Who he sees at family gatherings and stuff like that.
Yeah. Catfished by someone in his own family who might or might not have been vaguely flirty with him when they were in person together unclear yeah and he's trying to figure out like okay is this guy trying to blackmail me is he trying to give my wife ammunition for a divorce or is he enjoying this is he flirting with me does he want to hook up like what's going on here except the kicker was that he has like a real crush on this guy.
Right. And our response was basically like, this is very bizarre, very confusing.
Okay. It's kind of fun, but you got to be careful here because this could easily blow up in your face more likely than that.
Right. Right.
And what are you getting out of this? What is this role play slash reverse catfishing situation allowing you to explore that might be worth confronting? That was the real question. Yeah.
It's so bizarre. Really one for the books here.
So the letter goes, Hi, Jordan and Gabe. I listened to your advice a few weeks back to keep it cool with my catfisher and thought it made perfect sense.
But then I wondered how much better it would feel to be held in those strong arms and thought, damn it, I need to give this a go. Oh, for God's sake.
What good was our advice then? Come on, man. Gabe, is this dude just trolling us? So I asked myself the same thing, but I've corresponded with him a bunch and it seems to check out.
But yeah, I mean, obviously he knows that we're kind of hoping he keeps this up so we can hear what happens. So there's that.
Don't get me wrong. I am stupidly excited to hear what's about to happen.
So maybe part of this is our fault, but all right, continue.

But I had to be careful, so I decided to wait and see what his next move was before taking action.

Strangely, the catfisher went quiet over Christmas, so I decided to wait till our family's big New Year party we do every year.