Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk and More - Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments

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Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Hey, everyone, it's Megan Kelly, and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your friends and family.

Today, we are bringing you some of the most memorable moments from the Megan Kelly Live Tour, which came to an end last week. It was so great to see the tens of thousands of you across the country.

And now we want to look back at some of what you may have missed. We had Donald Trump Jr.
kick us off on night one. That was amazing in Texas.
He was fired up and in rare form.

I spoke with Tucker Carlson in New York, followed by Ben Shapiro in Florida on back-to-back nights. That made tons of news earlier this month.

We had so much fun with Piers Morgan in Miami and Link Lauren in Texas. And of course, it came to an end last weekend in a powerful interview with Erica Kirk in Arizona.

So go check out some of the memorable moments, have a great weekend, listen to it here, and I will see you Monday with Mark Halperin.

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Before you go, you have to do your best, Donald Trump. We're going to have to do some Donald Trump, guys.

All right, let's talk about...

Why we're here, right? I mean, we were going to do this tour.

We announced this tour two days before Charlie Charlie was killed, and then the question was raised by basically everybody: do we still do this tour?

And I know how I felt, and I know how you felt. It's not exactly how my husband felt.

But we're here, and it's more important right now to be here than ever.

100%. I mean, the best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to actually be out here to doing this, to be unafraid, to not back down.
I think.

Yeah.

thank you.

I know I was supposed to do something with him literally the week after that, and as you mentioned, sort of in the intro, you know, I met Charlie, I think he was 19 or just turned 20, and it was 2015 at the beginning of that cycle.

And a couple friends of mine, actually from Texas, were like, you know, you have to meet this guy. He's great.
He's charismatic, and he knows everything about politics.

I'm like, wow, that sounds great, because no one here knows anything.

I've told you this before, but it was was like when they were like, you're colluding with Russia.

I'm like, guys, if you knew what was going on in that campaign, like we couldn't collude to order a cheeseburger, okay? So like,

relax. Slow your roll.
Relax, Adam Shiv. Like, give me a break.

But, you know, they're going on and on about how great this guy is, and they're like, okay, well,

he just turned 20. I'm like, just, okay, enough.
Like, stop.

If there's one thing we had no shortage of, it was guys that didn't know what the hell they were doing. We didn't need someone else who who also didn't know what the hell they were doing.

But these guys were persuasive and I sat down and in five minutes I was like, oh.

Describe that Charlie versus the Charlie we knew before he was taken from us. Honestly, it was the same.
You just knew it was a generational talent.

You know,

I don't know much, but I think if there's one thing I've probably proven to be fairly decent at in the last decade or so is sort of just understanding talent.

And I recognized it in an instant. I mean, mean, it was literally five minutes.
I'm like,

interviews over, like, you're traveling with me.

And, you know, he spent the next, you know, six, seven months. It was everything.
I mean, he'd be making calls. I mean, I have great pictures of Election Day 16.

And I think I did, it was close to like 75 radio interviews. We were just sort of moving east to west as the polls were shutting down.
I'm, you know, screaming at Sean Hannity.

He'd be like, just get me on in Western Florida because there's a time difference there. And I can still get a couple people to the polls because whatever wasn't showing up.

And, you know, Charlie was basically just in the background operating, you know, my Twitter and other social media handles from my desk in my office as I'm going through this.

And it was just such an amazing experience. But again,

he perhaps got better, but he was always so good. He was just going to be better than everyone else anyway.
It didn't take much maturation. He just always had it.

In the past couple of years, Don,

you've been subpoenaed and investigated more than any human on earth. So is your family.
So is your dad.

Your dad, they tried to throw him in prison, not to mention the impeachments and all the investigations and the civil lawsuits. And then on top of that, they actually tried to kill him repeatedly.

Twice, yeah. Yeah.

You saw your dad get shot in the ear. You saw three of his supporters get shot, one of whom died, two others of whom got shot as well.

And then Charlie got shot and killed and taken from us. This is your life over the past couple of years.
How has that changed you?

Honestly, it's hard. I mean, there's an element, I guess, you know, I got some of that Trump gene that it just makes you sort of go harder.

It's not normal. It's not always good.
It's not normal. It's not normal.
It's not always good. I have that for better or worse.
I think, you know,

yeah, I've been more subpoenaed than probably just about any human being in our family certainly has. I think I've done more hours of congressional testimony

for treason, right? I mean, you know, know, a crime punishable by death that became like my average Tuesday.

And it was like, oh, they're going to try to kill you again, Don. I'm like, okay, it's fine.

Can I catch lunch first?

Most of us are like, I got to get those Halloween decorations up. It's coming.
I'm on deadline. Yeah, no, it was my lawyer.
It's like, you're the greatest witness ever.

It's like, it's not because I'm actually good at it. I've just done it so much.
Eventually you're going to develop some sort of talent for it. I mean, it's,

you know,

do you miss it a little?

You know, Not that so much.

No, but

not that, but it was interesting, right? I think at the end of each one of these election cycles and now

three presidential cycles and then

six midterm cycles, you combine them all or whatever it may have been.

There was a time sort of at the end of 16 especially and at the end of 20,

you're in the throes of it. And I think it was October 2020.

I think I did 104 four rallies that month so that's four a day and I don't mean like you know a lunch or a breakfast I mean like you know 300 to 10,000 people in a room four times a day 31 days straight and it's sort of brutal and at the end of it you're like I just sort of want to be done with it 16 especially right because I got sucked out of like the world in which I lived, you know, real estate, and I was, you know, behind a desk or on a job site, and I was like, sort of want to go back to that.

And for about a week, it was great. And you were non-controversial before all this, too.

Yeah, no, I mean,

not the same level. Yeah, before that, no, it was awesome.
I could live in New York City. I got invited to the cool person parties.
That all went away.

But I know, honestly, but there was a component of that that was also cathartic. Right?

It was, you know, that obligatory lunch you all do with some friend you haven't seen in 10 years, but you do it once every other year. You go and you're like, why am I here?

You know, we don't really stay in touch. And it's like, you'd see all these people and they'd

text you, like, I love what you're doing. And you're like, oh, wow, that's great.
And you like look on their Facebook page, and you're like, Trump's a terrorist. He's a Nazi.

I'm like, I hate these people so much. I'm like, well, which one is it? Good children.
Because you can't be my friend and also do that. Like, you can disagree with me politically.

I mean, I had friends that didn't agree with a lot of what we were doing, but they'd still like, I'm writing a check to your campaign because I just believe in you.

And even if we don't agree on much politically, like, you're still a friend. And, like, those guys are great.
Those guys were. You can handle the honesty.
Yeah.

that that i can deal with it was the guys like clout chasing on one side and then kissing your ass on the other that i didn't appreciate but gee i i wonder because you talk about the gene you've got the gene and it is a crazy gene it's a great gene and i really have been thinking about this a lot because i now at this point in my life i think a lot about how do we handle trauma like what's the best way of handling trauma and i really have come over to my husband's presbyterian way of just shoving it down

i really do believe honestly like leaning into into your traumas and they call it ruminating is very bad for you. We've really,

we were raised by Oprah and we were raised by wolves. She misled us.
The Trump gene is the way. Well, yes and no, right? I was sort of getting there before and

I sort of ramble, but

you get there and it feels strong, but you also then suppress all of it and it's just like, it doesn't matter, put it aside, go back and fight. Doesn't matter, put it aside, go fight.

Like literally in your dad's case, in the moment where the bullets are still flying. Correct.
And we all sort of did that to some extent, him more than anyone.

But then you go back and you're, you know, I have five young kids, you know, and kids, you know, they have some sort of problem. I'm like, well, they're literally trying to jail me.

They're trying to shut down our businesses. They just tried to kill grandpa.

It's just you know, whatever they're going through is still a big thing for them, but you can't even think of it as a big thing because it's like, give me a break.

It's nothing, but it, but it's big for them. And so

you definitely put a lot of that sort of emotion aside.

It's like you've just been a beast in a cage, prodded for a while, that you'd sort of adjust to that normalcy, but it makes it actually very hard to be sensitive to other people's ideas and emotions.

Of that movie, Free Solo. Did you see the movie Free Solo? 100%.
Did you guys see this? I saw it on an airplane once, where the guy like. I used to do a little bit of free climbing solo.

Yeah, I have that underdeveloped sense of self-preservation. And pretty much I'm a pilot.
I do the Trimix dive away.

So this guy's like climbing mountains, like the most dangerous mountainsides in the world without any suspension, without any rope whatsoever, and it's extremely dangerous.

And they talk in that film about how you can kind of burn out your adrenal gland.

And that's not necessarily a good thing. Or it's already underdeveloped, so it takes that much more stimulus to actually get any sort of excitement out of life.
And that's what it was like.

So after 16, you know, you work so hard, you sort of become like, I mean, there's something cool about being pseudo-rock star, right?

You're on a stage and people are loving it and you sort of feel like, wow, I'm actually decent at this. This is kind of cool.
So, but you get like, I got to go back to my regular life.

I'm so over this. And like two weeks back at a desk and I was like, yeah, no, this isn't going to work for me anymore.
No, no, no, I was, I was, no, no, no, like borderline depressed.

Like, I was like, this, this sucks. Like, I literally just remade my whole life after that and got, stayed more involved in this.
And just,

it was sort of game-changing. So what I thought was sort of like going to be my destiny for, you know, the rest of my career, it was like, yeah, no, that's not going to work.

Like, I literally would not be able to be satisfied sitting at a desk and doing that forever anymore. And so it changed everything.
Well, that leads me to my next line of inquiry, which is,

is any Trump going to be running for office at any point soon?

You know, this is always the trick question, right? Because if you say no, then you decide to do something at another stage in life. I appreciate the applause.

And, you know, someone said, you know, a bunch of friends sent me a poll last week. It's, you know, JD and I are the only guys in double digits.
I'm like, I haven't really been

out there all that much for it for the air. But still, well, you know, who knows? You know, honestly, the air is whoever deserves it, it, really.
You know what I mean? There's not an heir.

Contrary to what we've seen, this isn't a monarchy, right? Like,

I know they like doing the whole no-kings thing and dressing up like, you know, Bozo the clown, and I think that's supposed to be effective. I don't know.

It doesn't seem to move the needle much for me, but

it also is sort of ironic that they're talking about not having kings

with a president that was elected in a landslide, won the Electoral College, won the popular vote,

won all seven swing states in a historic fashion,

before that

actually left office. I mean, you know, if you're, he's like a really shitty king, actually.
I mean,

if he's a king, he's doing a lousy job. Because a king wouldn't have done that.
A king wouldn't have allowed himself to be prosecuted and persecuted and almost jailed. Almost assassinated.

A king probably wouldn't allow those protests to happen.

And if he was a king, the government would be open and not shut down by Democrats who want to make sure that we're funding health care for illegals. That's right.

But, you know,

the narrative, as we all know, the narrative doesn't always have to line up with reality. Was that a long way of saying no?

You have to see.

So not never. No, but not probably.
No, not now.

But

not never. There may be a time.
And if it's required of me, and I can do do that for my country, it's an honor. The fact that I have this kind of reaction is...

All right.

Thank you.

Listen, just that kind of reaction, like, that's sort of,

I mean, that's the greatest honor I could receive, right? So it means a lot to me.

And I see that. And

it's, I don't know that I have the ego, actually, which is ironic. I understand.
Coming from the top.

But there's

like a level of hubris you actually need to be president, I think, that I'm like, I don't know. I'm a regular guy.

I I fight to know where we want to go, but after that, I'm okay going in the background. But

what was so great about the last four years under Biden was it's actually what we needed as a country for everyone to understand how fragile our democracy is,

how fragile the republic really is, how fragile even our economy is, and how the world really needs a strong America. And so it wasn't just the first four years of Trump that showed us that.

It was how quickly it all disappeared and went away that woke up so many people. But in that,

there was a sort of component of, you know, trial by fire.

You know, not just for the American people who got it and experienced it because you saw it with your own eyes every day, but for those in the cabinet now,

for those who were able to be fighters and, you know, were

subject to the same law fare and whatever. So now we actually, for the first time in modern history, we have a bench.
We have a bench of guys that can do this.

And if I'm part of that, that's an honor. But it's not like, you know, even in, you know,

after the first term, you're like, well, man, who's next?

You know, it wasn't going to be Mike Pence.

Mike Pence was perhaps like a necessary thing to sort of consolidate other parts of the Republican base that are like, well, this guy from New York, how do we make this happen? How does,

you know, perhaps, I don't want to say necessary evil, but like you sort of needed the

corporation. It made sense at the time, but it was never going to be the future of the party, right? Like

that was never real.

And, you know, now it's great to be like, just to see a JD and to see, honestly, you know, Marco's done a great job. He's a star.
Marco's a star too. And

more importantly, they're guys that aren't just sort of playing a role on TV.

They've actually changed their worldview to understand that sort of America first, MAGA, however you want to look at it, is actually the future of the Republican Party.

They're not guys that are dying to go back to the old ways and playing a role. They actually believe it, they get it now,

and that's incredible for the future of our country.

Okay, now,

since you and your dad are very similar in many ways, what, and you're talking about how you were bored sitting at your desk for two weeks, what does Donald Trump post-presidency do with his time?

Oh, God.

I don't know, Megan.

Yeah, no, you know, it's an interesting one. It's like this was always during the campaign.
It's like, you know, are we working him too hard?

It's like, no, no, no, keep him going because there's nothing sometimes more scary to us than we're having, you know,

perhaps clean up some messes. You know, getting the call at like five o'clock in the morning, like, did you see the tweet that went out three hours ago?

Like, no, what happened?

Don't worry, you're on CNN in a couple hours. What are the talking points? It's like, honestly, we don't know.
Figure it out.

The scariest Donald Trump is a bored Donald Trump. So we.

For real.

I got to figure out.

We all have to figure out how to keep him busy.

He could pull the Obama, not leave Washington and be the shadow president for the next day.

That would be fun.

Listen, I think one way or the other, he's always going to keep busy. I mean, you know, you even see the passion of what he has now as he's doing additions to the White House.

I mean, he's always going going to be a builder at heart. And I think because he's a builder, it's why he understands how to do these things.
It's also why he's so able to relate to regular people.

You know, he still always sort of defaults back to his roots of being a builder, someone who creates.

And so, you know, I imagine he'll always remain politically active because he, too, likes the action.

And the party likes him. They don't want him to go.
Yeah, I mean, they're going to want him around. He's remade that party, and he's always going to have an incredible influence there.
And so

it'll be interesting to watch, though. But we got to keep him busy one way or the other.

I'm going to actually take up golf despite all the things that I don't want to do. It's just be like, I just got to go play golf with him because if he's alone and bored, it's going to be problems.

Let's get him away from the true social.

Let's talk about the law affair that's happening now.

What happened to your dad was deeply wrong. It was immoral.
It was criminal. It really was criminal what was done to him.

And you guys saw that, you know, now before Trump took office, he filed a couple of complaints with the DOJ seeking to be

made whole on all the money he had to spend to defend himself. And the media has gone nuts with it.
Oh my god, it's conflict of interest. How could he? How could he?

Do you know, if you listen to AM Update, you do know this.

Do you know how much those losers, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, those two FBI lovers who were tweeting, you know how much they got from the DOJ?

Two million dollars.

And they for perjuring themselves. Yes.
And setting up a president. I mean, it's...
They're plotting actively against him.

So they filed a complaint because they were mad their tweets got released, and Merrick Garland's DOJ paid out. So why shouldn't Trump file a complaint and get paid out for all of his heartache?

But I'm just speaking of the law fair and how widespread it was and how bit by bit your dad's trying to make good.

The law affair that is being unleashed against his enemies We've had lots of debates about it. I'm totally in favor of it because I really think they deserve it.
It's accountability to me.

But what's your reaction? Because the argument against it by smart people is: two wrongs don't make a right, and it's not going to stop them.

You know, when they get back in power, they're going to do it again.

It's actually a nuanced sort of answer because, like, you know, I guess the normal Don Jr. response would be like, just go after him.
But

these guys did break the law. They actually did.

There's a difference between what they did to my father, where they're literally going back and literally changing the statute of limitations for a short period of time to be able to try to get him.

When they're venue shopping, you notice he was only sued in Atlanta, New York, D.C.

There's a difference between creating a thing, the steel dossier,

and it's manufactured to end a result. That's different than John Bolton.
taking home classified documents and breaking the law and doing that. That's not lawfare.

That's actually called enforcing the law. So there's two different things.
Now, the corollary to all of that is,

generally speaking, there's no one weaker than a Republican in Washington, D.C.

No, no, no.

You've seen it.

You can be the most die-hard red meat guy, and you get to Washington, D.C., and all of a sudden you're like, wow, I love the perks. I love getting my ass kissed.

I love being invited to the cool person party.

You know what? They leave me alone if I'm like

85% Republican.

If I fold when it actually matters to my constituents, but can be beneficial to the Democrats, you have an easy existence. The Washington Post isn't doing their hit pieces.
I look at those hit pieces.

Roberts comes to mind. Yeah, well, no, of course.
Robert. But by the way.

How many strong Republican senators do we have? Like three?

That you'd actually want to be in one of these political fights with?

I mean,

it's pretty plentiful. And so there's a component of me that believes I'd love none of this to ever happen.
I'd love it to actually be fair. That's not ever been the case.

And until we actually start fighting the same way the Democrats do, it's never going to stop because they're more than happy to take their wins. You know, they talk about democracy.

It's all a sound bite. You know, they talk about all these things.
They're so good. Until it happens to them, and it's like, well, this is different.
You know, rules for thee, but not for me.

Unprecedented. They actually keep using that word as people get indicted on the left.

Unprecedented. I'm like, what were you doing to me, to my father, to half the Republican Party? You know, what did you do to Peter Navarro? What did you do to Steve Bannon?

You know, that was unprecedented. Roger Stone.
Roger Stone. Now that it's happening back to them.

It's unprecedented all of a sudden. You know, they can get away with that, and they've gotten away with it because they also control still the mainstream media narrative.

They control a vast majority of tech.

You know, I think what Elon's done is great to at least people can finally see, like, oh, wait a minute, it's not actually unprecedented, but it's hard to believe.

There are people that see that and they're like, oh my God, it's unprecedented. Like, did you not turn on a TV for a solid eight years? You've been uncertain.

Like eight years when Trump, what, 96 indictments? They wanted to put my father away for 750 years? I mean, he's a young and vibrant 79.

But I think even for a high-energy guy like Donald Trump, like 750 years may be a lot.

I'm not sure he gets through that. By the way, does he sleep? Because you hear the reporters on board Air Force One, like, you can't fall asleep because he might come back at any second.

He's constantly like talking to his cabinet officials, and like, you don't want to be the reporter who's asleep when he comes back for the fourth time and you miss the big scoop.

Honestly, like,

I've rarely seen him sleep. If he does,

it is like three three hours a night.

But it's been his whole life.

So I remember coming out of the Wharton School of Finance and starting to work in the business and stuff like that. And

young 20-year-old guy in New York City, I'd go out and I'd be partying with my buddies. I'd probably get home at

12.

10.30.

10.30. Let's just say that for.

And Saturday morning, my phone would ring. You know, Don, why aren't you in the office?

I'm like,

why aren't you in the office? He's like, I'm in the office. That's why I know you're not in it, Don.
I'm like, shit. Nightmare.
I'm like, I'm stumbling over their hairs everywhere.

I'm hungover as hell. And I'm like, we're going to get to the office.

And on a Saturday, sometimes Sunday.

It's just built this way. He's just always been that way.

I mean, perhaps the most, and I've sort of been impressed with his stamina that way for most of my life, but I mean, even, you know, this last election, the days prior to the election, I mean, I saw him go two all-nighters in a row.

Yeah. Like, it was all day, seven events, and I'd speak at some of them, but when he's there, he's speaking for an hour.
Yes.

I mean, it's slated for an hour, and sometimes it ends up being two and a half. The weave.
But, you know, you got six of them.

And we're in Michigan, and it's 2.30 in the morning, and that's 3:30. By the time he dealt with the time difference, or wherever we end up, I think it was Michigan, was the last one.

And he's still going strong. He had six of these speeches, five of these speeches for two hours apiece.
It's 2:30 in the morning, he's going strong. He gets on the plane, and he starts playing music.

And I'm like, I just want to go to bed. I like, I literally, like, for the love of Christ, please just turn off the music.
And he's lasting Elton John. It's, it's, it's, it's wild.

And then we get there, and it's election day. And he's, I get home.
It's, you know, know 6 a.m. I try to get like an hour or two.
I get home. I take a shower.

I'm about to go to bed and I turn on the TV quickly and he's doing interviews. I'm like

I'm like no, I felt like I'm not like living up to you know this like I literally had like two hours till my next thing. I'm like I just can't go to bed because I can't let this guy out do me

Let's talk about it. Let's talk about why Nick Fuentes.

I interviewed Fuentes.

Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes like three weeks ago.

It mostly wasn't public, but Fuentes was attacking my father, a subject I have literally no sense of humor. My father passed in

March and was really kind of the patriarch, not kind of, he was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family. And

some of what Fuentes was saying about my dad was, you know, true, okay, which made it worse.

But I was just so offended by that. I couldn't deal with it.
And

my son and my wife. So, you know, I was really mad at Fuentes.
And then I did an interview. And just out of the way, I was so mad at it, like, popped out and I attacked Nick Fuentes

in this interview. This was last month, I think, ish.

And then I got all these calls from people saying, do you know anything about, I don't know anything really about Nick Fuentes other than he's attacking my dad, my wife, and my son.

And it was like, actually, Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator among young men. Like, period.
He's got 5 million subscribers on Rumble. It's bonkers.
And I didn't know any of it.

I mean, I'm 56, so I'll just like state the obvious.

Not our demo. My oldest child is 31, like much older than Nick Fuentes.
So I kind of missed a lot of this stuff. I pride myself on not missing things.
I totally missed that.

Really? And then it turns out that, you know, he has no advertisers. They've been trying to cancel him since freshman year in college.

Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut him down freshman year in college. And it didn't work.
In fact, it had the opposite effect. So I was like, hmm.
And so I talked to a million people I know.

Like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes to hear

what is this, actually.

And so I decided to do it. And I thought it would be controversial.
I didn't think it would become what it's become.

I'm not going to offer any defense other than, you know, it's kind of interesting.

I've literally, I mean, I've interviewed any of this for 34 years, so I've interviewed everybody, most of them bad people, to be honest.

I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil War, all cannibals, every single one of them. It tasted human flesh.
And first of all, I kind of like them.

I'm just being honest, because I like people. Don't agree with cannibalism.
Pretty opposed. For the record.
But I'm just that way. I just like people.

And the closer, if you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, like, it's hard to not see the human in the person, even if he's a cannibal. Did the Liberian cannibals smell good?

kind of rank to be honest actually during the interview this is i'll never forget this i was in africa for to cover the civil war and i'm interviewing this guy and he was like you know commander butt naked or it wasn't actually commander butt naked who was a famous militia leader during that war who fought needless to say butt naked but i'm interviewing this guy and his cell phone goes off and it's the woody woodpecker theme song

And I was like, oh my gosh, you're human. It was like hilarious.

Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial like I interview people who are hated and in some cases like demonstrably evil and I asked them why did you do that and what you know what's your account of yourself like tell me who you are what do you believe

and I wanted to that was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Fluent is like what is this tell me you know I'll give you two hours I have only watched your clips are like a minute long I want to hear like why don't you describe what you think because I think that's the small role that I play, which is to get documentary evidence of people describing what they think.

I did it with Putin. I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world because I'm interested.
Not because I agree with him, because I think it's interesting.

And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nick Fuentez, and it's this, and I said it, which is, I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country from Belgium to Congo to Israel, because they're foreign countries.

Yes. And I'll never give up that.
Right. In fact, it's an obligation, I would say, and to be reasonable about it.
And not, you know, but what's in America's interest? Totally legitimate.

It is totally illegitimate and very specifically un-Christian to attack people for their DNA. Like, I hate this group.
You wanted him to hear that. He has, we all have to hear that.

And because that is the basis of Western civilization. Western civilization is derived from the New Testament.
It is based on Christian ethics.

And the core difference between the West and the rest of the world, not just Israel, but every other country, is that we don't believe in collective punishment because we don't believe in blood guilt.

We don't believe that you are born guilty, and we also don't believe that you're born virtuous. We believe that God created every person as an individual.
God did not create communities.

Every woman gives birth to a human being, and every person has the spark of God inside him. I mean, that's what we believe as Christians.
And every person has the possibility of redemption.

And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form.

But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians. He was murdering Christians.

He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament, but he was on the way to go murder more Christians that he met Jesus, and then he became the great evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament.

So he's my personal hero, but he's also living testament to the truth about people, which is each one of us was born and is an individual, and we will face God alone at the end to account for our lives.

And along the way, there was always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you look like, or what your religion is, that you can change and that you can be saved by Jesus.

That is Christianity in three sentences. And so

that is reflected, even for people who aren't Christians, that is reflected in an ethical framework and a legal code that is the only truly unusual and great thing about the West, which is we do not punish the innocent.

We only punish the guilty. We do not, you commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail.
We don't execute your cousins. We don't commit genocide against your whole tribe.

We punish you because you did it. We treat each person as an individual.
That is Western civilization. That's a Christian understanding.
It does not derive from any other religion.

Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim. And that's the basis of our justice system, which, again, even non-Christians appreciate.
That's why they move here.

Because it's self-evidently more humane. That's where the idea of human rights comes from.
They're not collective rights. It's not that your tribe has rights and his tribe doesn't.

It's you as an individual have rights. And that idea

is not only being challenged in our country, it's being disregarded. It's disregarded in DEI, it's disregarded in affirmative action.
Identity politics is a refutation of that idea.

We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for the same reason. That is anti-Western, it's evil, and it leads, in the end,

inexorably, to genocide. That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s under the Nazis.
It's the root idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994.

It's the root idea, just saying, behind what's happening in Gaza right now. Where it's like, we're going to kill the kids too.
We don't care. And we're going to, by the way, move everyone out because

they're a people that is fundamentally opposed to us.

Yeah, well, I'm not for that. Sorry, because that's not the Western understanding of justice.
We punish the guilty alone. We do not punish the innocent.
Period.

And that's not racism. And in fact,

it's the answer to racism. It's the answer to anti-Semitism.
It's why anti-Semitism is wrong. It's why racism is wrong.
No, you're not better than me.

No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born. You're the same as me because we were both created by God.

Period. So the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes, any tribe, including my tribe, is prima facie immoral.
And yet it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics.

And I reject it. I reject it when it manifests as anti-Semitism.
I reject it when it manifests as anti-white racism. which has been pretty common.
I know we're not supposed to say it, but it's real.

But I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are. I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral.
It's anti-Christian, and that is the destruction of the West.

And so when I see these people back, we're defending Western, when Mark Levin's like, we're defending Western civilization, or Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're Palestinian so we can defend Western civilization.

I'm like, no, no, no, you're the enemy of Western civilization because collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization. Period.

Wow.

That's what I wanted to say, and I said it, and they called me a Nazi, and I'm like, actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason.

But wait, what I hear you saying, sort of, is that you wanted to reach him. You wanted him to reach him.
Of course, I want to reach him and everyone watching. But were you trying to help him in a way?

I want to tell the truth as I understand it with the ever-present knowledge that I'm kind of a buffoon and I'm often wrong. I supported the Iraq War.
I remind myself of that every single day.

I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors and judgments. I've been carried away by enthusiasm, particularly by anger, many times in my life.

So, with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay, you always have to remember that because I'm not God.

I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can in every venue, in every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can.

And that's why Nazi Week doesn't bother me anymore because I'm not a Nazi. I'm a Christian.
Of course.

So, what about?

I don't want to spend the whole time on this, but I am curious. The main criticism, as I understand it, has been, well, yes, platforming, they say that.

I don't accept platforming as a valid objection. What is that a verb? By the way, you take a noun and you make it into a verb and nobody says anything.
As a former editor, I say no. Yeah, agree.

Honestly, but

as far as I know, Nick Fuentes hasn't eaten anyone. You know, I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people, and he was platformed by Diane Sorrow.
We have a member, a sitting member of Congress.

I spoke to the Speaker of the House about this today.

We have a sitting sitting member of Congress from Florida called Randy Fine, who has literally texted or put on Twitter, we should kill them all, every single one.

Someone texted a picture of literally of a dead baby, and he laughs at it. And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military committing genocide, and that's cool.

It's not cool. And let's just be honest, that is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said.
Period.

So the main pushback has been when you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan, et cetera, these journalists went after them, like exposed the terrible things.

And Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things. Big time, including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all, in my opinion.
Yeah.

I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust, likening it to baking cookies in the oven, and there's no way you could have gotten to six million, seems to be his theory.

He thinks to

think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms.

So what do you say to those people who say, why don't you raise any of that? You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor.
Buzz off. I mean, I don't know.

You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? I'll give you a cell. Call him.
And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you.
I got the same thing with Putin.

Why aren't you yelling at him? Okay, why? So I can show that I'm a good person. I care about what my wife thinks, thinks, my children think, and God thinks.
And that's it.

I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you. You may think I'm a terrible person.
Okay, I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand

what people think. And I'm committed to that.
And if you don't like it, don't watch. That's my view.
But that doesn't mean that I share the views.

I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes. I mean, please.

And I don't, you know, I'm not telling them even in private because I'm not into that at all. But I will say, just since you brought it up, one thing that did bother me was the Usha Vance thing.

And I did actually,

I generally make it a practice not to be like, you said this, and da-da-da-da-da. And the internet tells me, or the ADL says, you said this.
It's like, why don't you just tell me what you do think?

Like, why don't you speak for yourself? Because we're adults. That is my approach with everybody, whether I like him or don't like him.

But the Usha Vance thing did upset me because I know Usha Vance and I love Usha Vance. And I was really offended by that, just personally, because I know her, right? And in a normal way.

And I did think about that. Like, that pissed me off.
And I,

I'm just being as honest as I can be. I didn't want to repeat it.
Yeah. No, you're always in the middle of the day.

As a journalist, you're always there. Like, do I repeat it? Well, if you know the person and spread it or kind of, and it's like so wounding.
And I mean, he attacked my wife, as I said. So

I don't know. I'm sensitive on that.
So let me ask you. If they made the wrong call, by the way, probably.
So now having done it, what do you think of him? About Fuentes? Yeah.

I think

it's so funny.

I did not make Nick Fuentes.

Nick Fuentes is, well, he's just enormously gifted as a broadcaster. I mean, it's like, it's unbelievable his talent is.
I mean, I have done that job.

Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously, but I mean, I've sat in front of a camera and talked. He's really good at it.
He has not been canceled. He can't be canceled.

So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of like, what place does he occupy in our, what does he say about our society?

And I'm not making excuses for anybody else's views. I'm just saying as a factual matter, if this is the most popular person among young men, young white men,

then we need to like start thinking about why that is. And we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which is destroy them, actually.

And no one wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever. No one ever wants to repent.
They all want to cast stones.

They don't see the plank in their own eye. This is including me.
It's just humans are like this. And they want to be like Nazi.
And it's like, oh, yeah, okay.

Great.

But like, how did this happen? Why are they listening to him? Kind of. Can I ask you?

And part of the reason is because the Republican Party completely betrayed

its voters by obsessing over Israel. That's just a fact.
Like, what is this? It's a country of 9 million million people. I'm not against Israel.
I visited on vacation. I've always liked.

Jerusalem is my favorite city in the world. I'm not against Israel, but like, why is that the center of our conversation? It's 9 million people, no resources.

The only strategic value Israel has is the extent to which we have to defend Israel. But take that out and there's no value at all.
I'm not against it.

I'm just saying, like, we're a country of 350 million people. We're the most important country in the world.

And our politics is, and every, practically every member of Congress spends all day talking about Israel. And if you're a normal person, person, you're like, I don't hate Israel.

I certainly don't hate Jews. But what the hell is this? But wait.
And then it's like, shut up. You can't talk about it.

But wait, clarify what you mean because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men. I was with you.

Both parties have abandoned young men, especially the Democrats, though,

for so many other reasons. But why Israel? You're saying the focus.
Because all the energy.

Yeah, I mean, look, Trump is elected. I campaigned for him.

And I love Trump. I just want to say that.
And I talked to him the other day, and I love Trump.

And I've known him for 25 years, and

I could write many books on Trump, and they would be positive, basically. But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit? Bibi.
Then he comes again. Then he comes again.

And it's like the energy of the administration and of the entire U.S. government is all of a sudden about Iran.
A war with Iran? Really?

How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime? Zero, because that's the number. How many people do you know who've died of a drug OD? Some.

Maybe you have a nephew who did. So like, what is this? I know you want to have regime change in Iran.
I'm not mad at Israel at all. It doesn't, I'm not actually mad at Israel.

I'm mad at our leaders for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's country.

And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government works for you because you own the government because it's a... It's a democratic republic.

Like, what the hell is going on? And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi, you're an an anti-Semite. Well, actually, I'm not.

And I'm in a really great place to say that because I actually, I'm really am not.

And no matter how many times they say that, it doesn't bother me because it's, I think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me because I'm pretty reasonable.

Like, who, who would disagree with what I'm saying? I'm just, maybe you do.

Okay, you do, but

you do. You disagree with what I'm saying, but like, what is the answer? Why would the U.S.
government spend all this time?

No, I'm a sincere question. Why is the overwhelming majority of the U.S.
Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby? Like, what?

Like, what is the answer?

Why is that okay?

And

they want to prevent you from asking that question because there really isn't a good answer other than shut up. And if there's...

If that's the only answer, I just, by my temperament and my age, I'm just not going to shut up because that's not hate. It's sincere.

What is that? What do you make of the folks who say Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East? They're in a very tough neighborhood. They have our shared Western values.

They have our back, we have their back, and that we have much more in common with the people in Israel than we do with some of these surrounding countries. I would say what are you talking about?

Pushing things like Sharia law, which I heard you comment on. Okay.

What's happening in Gaza, which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists, they've said that too. This is not a left-wing talking point.
Have you read

it? It's just a fact.

Read Ben Geveer Smotrich on this. These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying, starve them out, kill them, kill their children.

This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel saying this out loud. That is not Western.
That's Eastern. That is totally incompatible with Western civilization.

We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances, or else we're as bad as the people we're fighting. And that, by the way, the U.S.

government has done the same, and I've complained about it a lot. And no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government.

So why is it verboten to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away? What the hell are you talking about? That is a problem. I just believe in the principle.

And second, tell me why they're our most important ally.

Right down the road, you've got countries that have like the bulk of the world's energy supply. That's not an important ally.
What?

If you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America, you don't want to make unnecessary enemies. I like Israel for the eighth time.

How many people have been there on vacation just because they like it? I have. I took my kids.
I'm not against it. I don't want it to get hurt.

But from a geostrategic point of view, your duty, if you're running the State Department or running the White House or a member of Congress, is to serve the people who elected you in your country.

So you need to think seriously as you do with your own children, what's good for them.

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I would hate for people to believe that the Nick Fuentes sort of my problems with Nick Fuentes are about me because they really are not. They are about the fact that Nick Fuentes

is a truly horrifying person who believes truly horrifying things. And again, there is a reason why Charlie Crick despised him.

There is a reason why every mainstream political commentator has been highly critical of him. It's the reason why, these are not arguments.
This is not a person who's making arguments.

He is a Hitler-loving troll. And I say that advisedly.
He literally says on his show that he loves Adolf Hitler.

Okay, so just the reason this has come up in recent weeks is because Tucker, your guest last night, decided to have him on last week and to completely gloss him, in my opinion.

And you can make up your own opinion as to what you think Tucker was doing during that interview, but I know what it looks like when Tucker Carlson decides to be an aggressive interviewer, when he decides to ask difficult questions of people.

Tucker is eminently capable of doing that. He did it to Ted Cruz quite thoroughly.

But he decided for any number of reasons, and I try not to attribute motivations to people, that he was going to treat Fuentes with kid gloves, that he was going to not ask him about any of the things that I've just mentioned, literally any of them, and to essentially normalize Fuentes, act as a sort of gateway drug or as a,

what I've called Tucker, as an ideological launderer of bad ideas over the last couple of years. And this is not coming from a place of animus for Tucker on a personal level.

I've known Tucker for a very long time. Tucker and whenever we're in personal situations, we get along great.

I think I saw that Tucker talked about how we were at Charlie's memorial in the vice president's box together, and he's correct.

I mean, we saw each other, we said hello, we talked, it was very friendly, and all of that.

And it's also true that a couple of days after Charlie's murder, he reached out and he called me and he said, listen, I know that we're at odds, and we've been at odds for a number of reasons, mainly political.

I mean, again, on a personal level, I'd go fishing with Tucker anytime.

The real question is, for me, I got into this business because I care about the ideas and I care about the ideals.

And so when you are determining what is conservatism, what should the future of America look like, and where do you draw the lines? Those are the questions that I need to answer in my job.

For me, my business is really not about friendship.

I have lots of friends, people who I love, with whom I disagree on politics, and don't believe they should be leaders in the conservative movement, for example. And that to me is the real question.

In any case, Tucker reached out.

He said, you know, we've had a bunch of disagreements, and what if we could put those aside and align toward the DSA in particular, is what he mentioned.

And I said, you know, Tucker, you're totally right. Let's do that.
That would be great. In fact, the TSA? The DSA, DSA.
The Democratic Socialist American American American. Why the TSA?

How did that bring you together? The Democratic Socialist America. And the reason I'm-yes, and the reason I'm taking out the TSA only divides people.

The reason I'm taking out my phone is because I don't just, you know, I like to evidence what I'm saying with

actual evidence. So I texted him, and the text exchange was very nice.
I mean, here's what the actual text exchange went like after the call. So I texted him, and I said, Thanks so much for calling.

It means the world. It truly does.
Should we do a show together talking about the DSA threat, Democratic Socialist America threat, and orienting in the same direction?

Happy to do whatever it takes to bring everyone back together for the fight that matters. And Tucker then wrote back, Thanks, man, I appreciate it.

I'm going to spend the next week or two thinking about how to be most effective. The country is clearly on the brink.

I reached out repeatedly after that. Nothing happened.

And again, I thought it was a good idea at the time.

I think I felt differently after I saw what he did with Nick Fuentes and after he proceeded, in my opinion, to spend the subsequent weeks doing literally nothing to fight the left.

Again, I say this with sadness because Tucker used to be, I think, a deeply important part of the conservative push to win.

The number of times that Tucker Carlson has mentioned Zorin Mamdani since October 5th on his show is once.

And it was in the context of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson talking about the appeal of Zarin Mamdani.

Just by way of contrast, not because I'm a perfect representative here, but because you've talked about Zara Mamdani a lot. A lot of us have.

Since October 5th, I did 17 separate shows on Zara Mamdani, including four in the last week before the election.

Okay, because when you're orienting against the left, you really should orient against the left.

Okay, so the lot in there.

I think, just to be clear so the the breakdown from the like détente after charlie was him interviewing fuentes like was that the next thing that happened that led to the blow up i mean yes i mean i had not spoken a word there wasn't that he attacked you like or you had

i don't care about people

and i don't think tucker cares about people attacking him i mean like again we're professionals we're in a business where people comment on on what we say publicly

you know again this is why you know i think you and i differ on our angle with regard to for example candace Owens. I think that what Candace Owens is doing right now is evil.

It is evil what she is doing right now. Okay, and I say that again.

But what.

I didn't opine on whether it's evil or not, but my position is it's really none of my business.

I have a question. Why is it none of your business? I mean, you comment on these things for a little bit.
I'm not mother of the internet.

No, but if this were on the left and somebody were accusing Charlie Kirk of his wife having murdered him, I assume that you would be talking about it. Is that what Candace is accusing Erica of? Yes.

Of murdering her own husband?

She's accusing TPUSA insiders and other members of the right wing, including Seth Dillon, of being involved in the murder of Charlie Kirk, yes. Okay.

Like I said, I don't take in that content, which is an honest statement. I don't have time to watch it.
I believe you. I believe you.
But the point that I'm making is that what I'm saying is

friendship should not be in our business. I think it's important.
Listen, I'm not sure.

Friendship should not trump. We don't even know each other.

I understand, but even with Tucker, friendship should not trump our manifest requirement to speak speak out when people do and say things that are both detrimental to conservatism and morally wrong.

Okay, so I don't totally disagree, but I think the way of handling that, at least for me, is much different. So

I saw things go south between you and Tucker, at least from my vantage point, when you disagreed on Israel. That was obvious.
And he was, well, let me just make my point.

So he was saying things that were critical of Israel and our policy towards Israel.

And then you did one show where you did what I thought you should have done, if you disagreed with him, which clearly you did, which is say what you believe and what you think is factual and like educate your audience on what you think are the real facts and give them the evidence for it.

But you named him and it felt like an attack. And that, to me, was the beginning of the end where he was like, now it's on.

Because he felt personally attacked by you as opposed to just challenging his idea. I think you named him and you kind of diminished him.
And, you know, he's an 800-pound gorilla.

And if you mess with a gorilla, he's going to fight. And to me, that's where it started to go south.
And because I remember that day being like, oh, shit.

Like, I don't want to see this. But here's the thing.
I would urge everybody to go back and listen to the show that you're referring to, where I criticized Tucker's ideas, not Tucker as a person.

Tucker then responded by claiming that I do not love America. That is a direct quote.
That I do not love America because I was spending too much time covering the October 7th attacks.

And then proceeded in January to then say that I wanted his children to die in a foreign war. Okay, so those are a different...
That's a rhetorical

no, it is not. I'm sorry, it's not.
An attack on motivation is a very different thing from an attack on an idea.

His point was that you were sounding like a neocon, and he's upset with anybody who wants us to get too involved in Israel's conflict because he feels it endangers American children.

Okay, the idea that, number one, the idea that I want the United States to be directly involved in Israel's conflict is not true. No, I know that, Ben.

I've been urging Israel to get off of American aid for literally as long as I have been active in politics. But I'm making clear what his point was.

No, no, no, but that, but my point is that that's not his point. And again, none of this is.
So we disagree. Well, no,

we disagree on the interpretation of what Tucker has been doing for the past two years.

And it's very difficult for me to believe that Tucker is merely anti-Israel when, for example, today, in his newsletter, I mean, I can directly quote it if you'd like, in his newsletter today, he claimed that Zoran Mamdani is not anti-Semitic.

This is his newsletter today, this morning. I mean, I'm happy to read the text.

It's a little extraordinary because, again, it is kind of shocking stuff. So here's what Tucker Carlson wrote in his newsletter today, or what his newsletter says under his name.

He said, is the incoming mayor a fan of Israel? Does he want America to fight its wars? Not particularly. But a Jew hater? That's a different conversation.

We've never seen anything to suggest he falls into that ugly camp.

If we're talking about fighting the left, defending Zahra Mamdani, who literally said that Hamas, he has no opinion on whether Hamas should disarm, who posed alongside the 1993 World Trade Center unindicted co-conspirator, who wouldn't have disarmed globalize the Intifada, who suggested that whenever there is a New York Police Department boot on somebody's neck, it's an IDF lacing the strings, to suggest that that's not anti-Semitic in any way, no way.

Okay, but let's see. Or when he's going to give you a defense of Tucker here, and I don't need to defend Tucker because I'm not Tucker.

Tucker, Tucker, but I'll just say, I think, in general, because I know him and I listen to him, and I understand generally where he's coming from.

He would say his problems are with Israel. And he would say that that shot that Mom Dani laid against the IDF is a shot against the IDF and Israel and how he thinks they can pro-war, not against Jews.

And I think

he finds himself in complete alignment with Zorin Mamdani. It is very difficult for me to believe that he does not agree with Zorin Mamdani.

Is in a place right now of the same place that Charlie was getting to toward the end of his life, the same place that some people had tried to drive me, which is you're under withering non-stop accusations of being something you know you're not.

But from some people who you love and who you've been protecting, at least in my case, in Charlie's case, for two years, who you've been completely defensive of.

And Charlie and I both felt, and I, because we talked about this on my show, like, what's happening here?

Why are we dropping charges of anti-Semitism against us when we love Jews and we're both open Semites? We're Zionists.

Megan, you may notice, I'm just talking about me here. Are there people who are overzealous sure?

Have I ever attacked you? No, no, never. Did I ever attack Charlie publicly about any of this? No, no, no, no.
He and I had disagreements behind the scenes. ever detect that?

You get defensive. And I feel like

by the way, I waited to attack Tucker until he glossed Nick Fuentes,

who is, that has nothing to do with Israel. Nick Fuentes hates Jews.
I'm not saying

you didn't have a right to go after him. I mean, I think

you did what you thought was right, and you felt, and he mentioned you a few times in his interview with Nick Fuentes. He did, but again, I don't think it's about that.

Because if he had not mentioned me in that interview with Nick Fuentes, I still would have said something about it.

Because, again, glossing people who are white supremacists is bad electorally on a pragmatic level.

A right wing that embraces its own fringes will end up in the same position as a left wing that has embraced its own. So that's why

we want to get into it. Embraces.

Yes. So now, having spoken to Tucker, I actually see that interview very differently.
And I did listen to the interview, and I knew what Nick Fontes was.

And I think he did show himself to be who he is. It wasn't his most vile stuff, but you got the feel for what this guy was.

But I really think Tucker was talking to him, Ben, to put like a bumper on this guy.

Because what Tucker was urging him him the whole time was to understand that collective punishment for any one group of people is wrong.

It's deeply immoral and it's anti-Christian, which this guy is supposed to be and reminding him of how deeply immoral that is, that you should not be looking at a group of people, whomever it is.

The left does it to

everyone,

whites mostly, but like this collective shame, white men in particular. And there's a group of people like Nick Fuentes that does it to groups of Jews.

And he was making the case throughout the whole interview in the way that Tucker does. He's not like you or me.
He's not like pointed and cross-examining.

Not true. And was making fundamentally untrue.

Senator Ted Cruz, whether that is true. He gave it to Ted Cruz because Ted Cruz is a politician.
That's oh, oh, yeah.

Hold up. So only politicians get cross-examined? You don't.
Well, look, it depends on the person. Tucker, Tucker would never cross-examine a person who is not a politician.
That's his role?

Tucker has excoriated public figures who purport to speak for us and represent us for many years. Nick Fuentes is a podcaster civilian.
Okay, I just have a question.

We all in our industry are constantly excoriating people who are in our industry. It happens all the time, every single day.
Okay. Okay, again, we're talking about the same thing.

Again, we can agree to disagree on your interpretation of what Tucker was doing there. I think everybody should watch and determine for themselves what they think Tucker was doing in that interview.

And I urge you to watch it back to back with the Ted Cruz interview to determine whether you think that that was an aggressive Tucker Carlson interview. And you can judge that

in my opinion. I didn't say it was aggressive, and I don't think he would say it was aggressive.

And his point was: this guy, first of all, he's become a behemoth, sadly. He's got 5 million viewers on Rumble.
He's got a million followers on X. I agree.
This is all before Tucker Carlson.

And he was platformed, I hate that verb, but he was platformed by Patrick Beck David. And he went on Dave Smith's show, and he went on another big show.

He's been getting more and more purchase in the political ecosphere, including right-wing. And I think that's.
Patrick Beck David has a huge show. I know, but

did you know that Patrick Bach David had him on? Did his life blow up?

Patrick Bach David did a significantly more aggressive interview with Nick Fuentes than Tucker did. Okay, but my point is simply he's growing.
He's growing in stature.

And so what I saw Tucker do was not whitewash his ideas, but try to put bumpers up on the guy. I know Tucker well and I think that was his approach.

And the way, if you want to put a bumper up on Nick Fuentes, is it helpful to say you're fucking vile, you're an anti-Semite.

No, it isn't. Yes, it is.
That doesn't put a... Yes, no, it isn't.

That makes the audience feel good because you have hand-to-hand combat but it doesn't help change that guy's view or his extreme his extremeness at all okay I'll tell you what doesn't change Nick Fuentes' view Tucker Carlson with his arm around Nick Fuentes grinning for the camera while Nick Fuentes tweets out America first and then triumphantly goes on the air the next day to explain that he has essentially used Tucker Carlson as a vehicle for manipulating other people.

Okay, that's what Nick Fuentes is saying. Not me, Nick Fuentes.

Okay, and Nick Fuente, and by the way, I will again say that Tucker Carlson, when you say to somebody in an interview, do you condemn anti-Semitism?

And then the person says, sure, which is what Nick Fuentes said. He said, I'm not an anti-Semitic, which is blatantly untrue.

A responsible journalist would then follow up demonstrating that that is false. Tucker did not do that.
He allowed him to get away with that.

And then he allowed him to talk about quote-unquote organized jury, followed by Nick Fuentes being treated to a disquisition by Tucker Carlson about why Christian Zionists of all human beings on earth are the people that he hates the most.

He took that back. You can't take that back.

How do you take that back? He did. How? Because he went, he said,

then you should explain why it was wrong. You should explain why Christian Zionists are actually wonderful people.

Tucker is very quick to self-flagellate, and he went on with Dave Smith the next day, the next week, whatever, Monday, Tuesday, this week, and said, that was stupid. I didn't mean that.

He said, I'm angry at people like Lindsey Graham.

I'm angry at people like Ted Cruz because he thinks they run headfirst in these conflicts and they don't think about what's going to happen to America. Wait, hold up.

If we're talking about firing inside the tent, what everything Lindsey Graham, okay, and I'm not a huge Lindsey Graham fan, he votes with the President of the United States 100% of the time, and Tucker spent yesterday's show excoriating him as a psychosexual death worshipper.

Does that sound like firing outside the tent?

Again, these are the things that I'm saying. I'm going to say I'm not offended.
Again, the questions that I'm asking here, I'm not asking you to do anything, Megan. No, I know.
I know, I'm not.

Our beef is not with each other. I'm not, okay?

When I draw a line with regard to what I believe Tucker Carlson is doing to the conservative movement and what he is fomenting, that is because that is my info.

And everyone can make their own decision as to whether they think that I am right or whether I am wrong and where they choose to draw the line with regard to the conservative movement.

The question for me is always whether somebody's statements are forwarding moral values that I think are worthwhile. I did not get into this business for the money or for the clicks.

You didn't either. Neither did he.
Was that? Neither did he. I mean, he may not have.
That's fine. I certainly did not.
I'm only going to speak for myself.

And what that means for me is that if I see somebody breach basic moral values by having on a Nazi, and in my own view, you can take your own view, in my own view, gloss the Nazi, then I'm going to speak out about that.

And I'm going to point out that there is a long pattern of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of the last two years, ranging from traveling to Russia to sniff the bread and explain why the Russian regime is actually wonderful,

to saying last week that the Venezuelan regime of Nicolas Maduro

is actually not that bad because they're being attacked by, in his words, Globo Homo.

Tucker's made the point, I'm not going to hear to be Tucker's defender, but he's made the point that Maduro is culturally conservative. Who gives a shit? The guy's a communist dictator.

Everyone in his country is eating dog.

He's shipping fentanyl to the United States to kill Americans. Why don't we give a shit

whether he's anti-LGBTQ rights? This is the number one thing about Nicolas Maduro?

You know how far down the list you have to get before you can get to anything remotely recommendable about Nicolas Maduro?

I did ask him yesterday about the criticism that he didn't give Nick Fuentes a hard time, right? He didn't bring up the stuff that we'll be talking about. No, he didn't.
And here's what he said.

They seem to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms.

So what do you say to those people who say,

why didn't you raise any of that? You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor.
Buzz off. I mean, I don't know.
You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes?

I'll give you a sell. Call him.
And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you.

I agree with him.

I agree with him. I agree with him.
He did the interview that he wanted to do for a reason.

Well, who has it worse?

The Katie Porter staff or the Megan Markle staff?

Who would you rather work for?

Katie? Right? Or Megan, because at least you could spy on them and see their weird little life.

Do we have to go to? We definitely have to. There's only one Megan I can actually still be civil to, and it's the one sitting to my left.

The other one.

She's getting back into acting, Piers. I'm sure you saw that.
She's shooting a movie now. She's playing herself in a movie.
Yeah,

which is, I guess, acting. Yeah, look.

I'm actually genuinely curious. Are there any fans of Meghan Markle in tonight? No.

Oh, hang on.

There is

one lone hand has raised.

Subversive.

Actually,

that is one more than I expected, I have to be honest.

Do you think she's going to make it in the end? And remember, I used to do a show called Good Morning Britain in Britain. And I love that show.
That was a great show.

And in five years, we trebled the ratings. It was on fire.
Everyone loved it. And then came the Oprah Winfrey win-a-thon, as I call it.
You and I were on together the morning after that.

Remember that? I had no show. I was sitting in my living room.
We took that thing down. Well, because there were certain things she said in that, and half-whit Harry, her husband.

And one of the things they said was that the Archbishop of Canterbury had secretly married them in their back garden three days before the wedding on TV.

So we did a quick check, because I thought, that can't be right. And we did a quick check.

It turns out that had the Archbishop of Canterbury secretly married them in their garden, he would have broken the law and been sent to prison.

So I thought, yeah, old Princess Pinocchio is off on a good one here.

And then the rest of it was all the racism claims turned out to be bullshit. The mental health claims were bullshit.
All of it was bullshit.

Designed to damage and attack the royal family, the monarchy, and all of it. And it made me puke.

Let's not forget the Oprah performance. Oh, yeah.

What?

They did.

What? These people? What?

How dark your baby was?

It was ridiculous.

And you know who they were talking about, by the way, because they accidentally put the names of the alleged racists in a, I think it was a Danish copy of the book by Omid Scobie, this

little rat bag who writes books supporting them. And

the two members of the royal family who apparently expressed concern about the skin colour of their unborn child were King Charles, Prince Charles at the time, and Catherine, William's wife.

Now, how likely do you think it is that either of those two people expressed negative concern about the skin colour of an unborn child?

Absolutely big fat zero.

And yet that was what they told the world in that interview. That's why I thought it was so disgusting.
And all right, in the end, I was told

57,000 people complained to the television regulator Ofcom in the UK. A world record, I'm proud to say, complained about me for not believing Princess Pinocchio.

So I was then told by my bosses, look, by the way, rule one here, never apologise, never clarify, never do anything. I can clarify that.

We know this. So we did a clarification the next day, and it made no difference.
The complaints kept coming in.

And eventually my boss has said, can you just apologise to Meghan Markle or you're going to have to maybe lose your job? I went, I'll take the job option. Thanks.
I'll leave.

And I walked off into the sunset.

Because

two things about the woke mob, and she's the High Priestess of Wokery, and her husband's the High Priest half-wit of Wokerie.

And the truth about it is, never bow to the mob, never grovel, never apologise, never give them an inch.

And when you have something, it's a point of principle, stand up for yourself and walk the fuck out. Yes, yes.

Amen. Preach.

I know you've lived it, I've watched it.

She's a bully, and her acting career, whatever she's trying to do, is going to fail, just like everything else she touched fails.

Didn't you think the Dodgers video clip from the

living room? Oh, God. With her waltzing around.

Yes. Like a hyena.
Literally like a hyena with a spear in its back, wasn't it?

And Harry's face. The half-wit sat there like he was doped out of his brains, which he probably was.

And the whole thing was so cringe, wasn't it? It was awful. Terrible.
I really want there to be a season three, though, of With Love, Megan. Don't you want to see another?

Do you want to see another Maureen Callahan parody? We got to do it. We did a little parody of it.
Ours was fuck off, Megan.

And I think I can channel her better than she can channel her. I think I'm a much more like her version of her.
As I said in the parody,

as she's encouraging people to drink more, people tend to like me better when they're intoxicated. And I think that's really been her experience.

So I don't think the acting career is going to do it, but the name of the movie is Close Personal Friends. And I thought, how ironic Pierre is, because she has none of those.

None.

Right? I mean, like, you see the parade of people who go through her little TV show, and it's all like, oh, this is the person who my closest and dearest friends.

And they're sitting there, and she's like, oh, do you have children?

Your best friend. What was your name again?

It's amazing. All right, but you mentioned that you mentioned British television, how poorly you were treated, and it was disgusting.

And the UK is even woker than we are, and they're very annoying, and they're way more Muslim than we are, radical Muslim, and way more pro-immigrant. It's bad.
It's bad.

You guys are a canary in the coal mine in a lot of ways for us. But we saw something happen on the BBC this week that made national headlines, international headlines, and it was absurd.

So, this woman, this presenter, as you say, was doing a report about

various groups who might be affected by some medical policy, and the list included,

should have included, pregnant women, but instead this happened. We have the soundbite, let's watch it.

London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has released research which says that nearly 600 heat-related deaths are expected in the UK.

Malcolm Mystery, who is involved in the research, says that the aged, pregnant people, women, and those with pre-existing health conditions need to take precautions.

Would you believe for that

they're trying to give her the Piers Morgan treatment?

They just upheld 20 complaints against her. Imagine who those 20 people are, right?

Just imagine, stuck in their dungeon at home, right, in their joyless, woke dungeon, and decided to complain about a woman presenter being forced to read the words pregnant people.

Well, how many times have you seen a pregnant man

in your life?

How many times do you think you'll see a pregnant man in the rest of your life? Here's a spoiler alert: you won't. There aren't any pregnant men.

It is bullshit.

It's so mad. You know the irony, Megan.
The irony, I tell that story in my book, Woke is Dead, about that incident.

And I say, wasn't it great that the BBC didn't bow to the mob and actually didn't take any action against her? As my book is published in America now,

they come back and they punish her. I mean, you literally couldn't make it up.
Yes, no. I mean, is she going to lose her job over this?

I don't think so, but it's just, I wish every female presenter at the BBC stood up and walked out until they withdrew the ruling against her. Yeah.

Because no woman should have to be made to read out the words pregnant people. And

it's actually about the

complete disintegration of

gendered language that benefits women. You know, we talked about

the disintegration of women. And mothers became birthing people.
I mean, what does it mean?

Nothing.

Nor is chest feeding a thing. That's also a lie.
Chest feeding.

Chest feeding.

What the fuck is that?

It's also known as child abuse.

This poor woman, her sin in that video was not just that she corrected the term pregnant people, but then they said she made a face.

She made a face that expressed personal opinion. Meanwhile, people are all over the BBC expressing opinions, especially on race.

Like when they watch sporting events and so on.

There's never any discipline. It's only on something.
It's a democracy. It's a really bad misstep by the BBC.
I actually like the BBC. a lot of great stuff.
Honestly, but they've grown very woke.

And this is an example of why, although I say woke is dead, it's an aspiration. It still pokes his head up, and you've got to rebel it.

The reason I think it's dead, the story recently of Graham Linehan, the comedian, Irish comedian. Came Irish.

Pretty fearless guy. He winds people up with the way he says stuff.
Fair enough. He can be very abrasive.

But he's fought a pretty lonely battle on behalf of women's rights against the trans activists. And it's cost him everything.
Cost him his marriage, his home, his job, his livelihood.

He was the creator of Father Taylor, one of the great comedies. And

we should give him a round of applause, actually. Yeah, go Graham.
And

not all heroes wear capes, right? They can come in all guises. And he's an unlikely hero, but he became one for me because the other day he comes into Heathrow Airport.

It's the first time he's been back to the UK since he put two jokes on X, on his X account, in April.

And one joke was to summarize it was a bit of a lame gag but you know is it really that terrible he talked about a trans

woman coming into a woman's changing room and he said what the best thing to do is kick them in the balls now look

some will find that funny some will think it's a bit over the top all right you know if you go to any comedy club in the world you'll hear jokes like that every 10 seconds that was the joke it sat there on his x account people either laughed or didn't laugh as we've done tonight.

But when he came into Heath Robe three, four weeks ago, five armed police officers were waiting to arrest him and take him to the cells for his joke. Five armed police.

And in that moment, I realized my country, which was, you know, Winston Churchill, fought World War II with the help of the Americans, before you all remind me. And thank you.
Thank you.

We're pretty proud of that. Thank you.

No, and genuinely thank you. It was a great team effort.
We repelled them together. It was great.

But, you know, that war was fought to save us from the Nazis, who would have killed free speech in a second. What are we doing in the United Kingdom?

And several hundred people have been arrested for tweets and social media posts in the last couple of years. It is completely ridiculous.

You cannot have a free democratic society if you don't aggressively defend freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It is the cornerstone of a democracy.

I mean, obviously, we love our First Amendment, and I know you and many other Brits are jealous of it. I mean, the First Amendment is being eroded day by day, even here, but at least we have it.

It's a very important principle of how we live the way we do.

I think the woke mind virus is uniquely tied to a deep unhappiness. You know, you never meet a super happy woke person.
They're joyless. Right, utterly joyless.

And that brings us to-they never laugh at any jokes. Have you noticed? Yeah, that's true.
Nothing is ever funny.

No book is ever a good read. They're all toxic.
Every movie is toxic. Everything, clothing you wear at Halloween is toxic.
And they are toxic.

They themselves are the toxic ones. They become toxic.
So they're always deeply unhappy, which brings me, of course, to Michelle Obama.

Again, to quote Stephen L. Miller, Red Stees on X, I regret to inform you we've disappointed the Obamas again.

She's been out there promoting her new fashion book. I know all you ladies look up to Michelle Obama as a fashion icon, do you not?

Anna Wintour told us she is. Hello.
She was on the cover of Vogue four times. Melania Trump, zero.
Okay, not as first lady, anyway, when she was an actual supermodel in Mary Trump, they gave her one.

In any event, so Michelle Obama's been doing a book tour to promote her fashion book. And the latest, she's been making all sorts of news for the wrong reasons.

And the latest bit that she offered was how tough it was to be First Lady because of the hair, makeup, and wardrobe team she had to deal with. Here's just a little sampling of what she's been saying.

The job of First Lady is an interesting job, non-job.

You know, it doesn't come with a real salary or a job description.

No one technically elected the first spouse, I'll say.

We've only had first ladies.

You're supposed to be aspirational, but representational, reachable, approachable.

You're supposed to be feminine, but not too sexy. Barack wears the same suit, changes his tie, buttons up.

His decision or a man's decision is: do I go with a striped shirt or a plain white shirt? Yes. Do I go with a red tie or blue tie?

If the day is long and there are a lot of events, which was always a challenge for me with Barack, if we'd go from Air Force One to a hike to

a fundraiser, what do I wear?

Hold on. Stand by.
There's another one. Sat 3.
Stand by.

I was accused of being angry.

It was shocking to me. Well,

I didn't really have that choice this firstly. Of course.

Every day, every time I was up, as we called it,

I was up for the public. Yes.
And the days were long. So, as you mentioned, to save time,

I know having a glam team, a trifecta, it feels like a luxury, but it was a time

necessity.

There's absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and makeup and have clothes ready that fit, you know, because

where is the woman that can live off the rack?

Right? No one can live off the rack.

I'm sorry, but you have you have to subject yourself to the burdens of a hair, makeup and stuff like that.

By the way, how rich have they become since they left office? I mean, this is the deal, right?

They serve their country on a not insignificant sum of money. I think it's about $400,000 a year, the President guess, and they live in unparalleled luxury the entire time they're in office.

And when they leave, they make hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars. Has anyone got a tiny violin for me? Yes, I can start playing here.
Yes. And my

not for nothing, but did you see that hideous outfit she was wearing?

I'm sorry. That's what having too much money does for you.

I've just never met somebody so ungrateful in all my life. And what did she start it off with? People said I was hateful because you are.
She can't stand America. She definitely can't stand Barack.

And I don't think she likes herself very much either. So she's been doing this non-stop tour.
And I just think there's a strain. She's woke.
He's woke.

There's a strain in the woke that leads you to be absolutely miserable, which is why they too should be praying for woke to die.

And it's why I know this audience is not woke because you seem so happy. Yes.
Look at me, look. Totally happy.
Extremely happy people.

Or it may be, having come from England recently where it was pouring with rain and freezing cold, as it is for about eight months of a year, it may just be because of the weather. Yeah, go Miami.

The Florida weather. Enjoy it while you're here.
I will. Thank you, Piers Morgan.
I love you so much.

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Hey, everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news.
I now have my very own channel on SiriusXM.

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Kim Kardashian is in the news. Forgive me, I try not to

ever say her name, but she's in the news because

she came out on the show with an admission that she has a brain aneurysm.

And it's a sympathy ploy, like, oh my god, I have a brain aneurysm, you know, something's going to happen to me, and I'm so worried.

Well, it turns out they taped this episode long before it actually hit hit air.

And from the time she tried to get everybody worked up on her new victimhood status, because we know this is such a currency, she showed up in New York City for the launch of her Skims partnership with Nike.

She went to that fashion show overseas where she had pantyhose all over her face. She's been on virtually every red carpet known to man.
She's been doing talk shows. She's been doing comedy shows.

There's really no stopping her from her public appearances.

And as it turns out, the brain aneurysm is like some teeny, tiny little vein thing that virtually everybody has, and it's really not a big deal. It just needs to be monitored from time to time.

She just played it up because she, like so many of these celebrities, wants to lean into victimhood status. So your thoughts on whether we should be

moved by Kim's story. I always had a brain aneurysm watching when she was selling the Merkins last week.
When she was selling those fake bush panties, I'm like, oh, I'm too gay. With the fur?

Yeah.

I will say she did have like a red, curly one for little orphan Annie. I thought that was generous.
She had a red one for Lindsay Lohan. I thought that was nice.
But yeah, no, Kim Kardashian.

I mean, I have to say, having grown up in the 70s, I don't remember it ever going that far. I said, Bush is back in office, honey, with that.
Anheuser-Bush, Jenna Bush, Hager.

Okay, there was a lot of Bush going on. So no, I don't give a shit about Kim Kardashian.
I think, honestly,

Kim Kardashian, you guys.

She has built a career and made billions of dollars off of giving women body dysmorphia. When Kim came into the game, everybody had to get a big ass.

So girls went out there and they put themselves in harmful situations to get big asses. They went to foreign countries, they got injections.
Now all the Kardashians are on Ozimpic.

What are those girls supposed to do from around the way who went and got big asses? Yes.

So yeah, they've just built this career off of giving women body dysmorphia and then with the fake bush panties. So you spend millions of dollars on laser hair removal to just drop a merkin?

That's a scam right there. That's a scam.

And a scandal, really. It's true.
Now she's got sheets over her head like freaking Islam or something. I don't know what's going on with her.
Oh, it's all the raged in New York City.

Let's talk about Michelle Obama.

Michelle Obama

just...

I know you're all watching her podcast.

You're the ones.

Michelle Obama wants you to feel very sorry for her because it's very hard being Michelle Obama. Everybody wants a piece of Michelle.
It's very hard to be so famous. Michael,

big Mike, that's what they're saying.

I will say she might have more testosterone than me, that bitch, honestly.

Honestly, she might be packing more than me, that whore.

Okay, so she's upset because it's hard to be so famous. And she's upset because it was very expensive to live in the White House.

They had to pay for their own food. Who has to pay for their own food? What kind of a world is this?

And just as soon as you start working up your sympathy glands for Michelle Obama, you see her just recently out on Steven Spielberg's yacht cruising around the Mediterranean while she literally wants you to feel sorry for her.

So do you?

No, do I feel sorry for Michelle Obama? Hell no. I have this place where I send women I call the unbearables, the insufferables.
I send them in my mind to a place called Bitch Island.

Okay, I want to send Michelle Obama to Bitch Island, Megan Markle, Kathy Griffin. That's where I send them in my mind.
The women of the view,

Rosie, they could host the show on Bitch Island, but Michelle Obama, right?

She comes from humble beginnings. And it's always the people who say they came from humble beginnings that forget so quickly.
Like she says she grew up on the south side of Chicago.

She's a round-the-way girl. She's Michelle from the block.
She's Michelle from the block. But then she's like, can you believe? I had to pay for my own caviar in the White House? And I'm like, what?

People are starving. We have an invasion at the border.
I can't even take her seriously, Michelle Obama. But it's always this victim card.

And I think on the left, these Democratic elites have realized playing the victim card is profitable. It gets you views.
It gets people tuning in. But we're just all tired of it.
We're so tired of it.

Is Katie Porter on Bitch Island?

No, I am Katie Porter's number one fan. Now I need her to do more interviews with the Helga Oktoberfest haircut.
I need Katie Porter.

I'm not in a position to opine on hair. I get it.
But listen, Katie Porter, that woman, she looks like those women in the circus who could like lift 500 pounds, Katie Porter.

He's not wrong. Right.
So I need Katie Porter out there more. I'm really into her.

The more interviews, the better with Katie Porter, right? 100%. Keep her talking.
Like Kamala Harris, keep her on the road every time she opens her mouth. It's a gift.
It's a gift to us.

She might. We have news about that.
We'll talk about it in a minute with Mark Alpert on Commonly Our Standby.

So yeah, I love Katie Porter because I like the funny thing for me in watching all those clips is I understood her anger.

Like when the staffer got in the back of the shot, you know, like, get out of the fucking shot.

The person was in the shot. I would have been like, get, Abby, get out of there.

But I would have said it lovingly, you know, harshly, but lovingly. There's a way.
You shouldn't swear at your employees is a bad habit. On camera.
Yeah. But now the ex-husband's coming out on camera.

That's always bad.

The ex-husband's now coming out saying she's a master manipulator and now I'm like, all right, well this is getting a little really interesting, but also untoward because should we really be taking the ex-husband's word?

I do, but should we be? Oh god, I don't have any ex-husbands in the audience tonight, do I? No, I don't know if we should take his word.

I heard that she poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on his head, and that's when I knew I loved her. When she poured a

scalding cauldron of potatoes on her husband's head, I said, oh, this woman's interesting. Allegedly.
Allegedly.

Kamala Harris, I hear you've been enjoying her book tour.

Is it just me, or is Kamala Harris's book tour going longer than the campaign? Like, it's going longer and longer and longer. And I have these nicknames for Kamala.
I call her Cabernet Kamala.

I call her Kamalamity. I think the sequel.

Yeah, I think the sequel to 107 Days should be 12 steps, maybe.

I think Bill W. could be the co-author, and if that offended you, call call the sponsor.

You can do the forward. Yeah, you can do the forward.
But yeah, no, Kamala Harris, I hope this book tour continues. I want her to run.

And what's interesting, in this book, Kamala Harris talks about choosing her running mate. And she says, I did not choose Pete Buddhajudge because he was gay.
And I thought, okay.

You don't choose Pete Buddhajudge because he's gay, but then you choose Tim Walls, the gayest man in captivity. Okay, Tim Walls, Tim Walls, Mr.
Jazz Hands, he walks into every room like Bob Fossey.

Okay, sorry to get heated. But Tim Walls, this man with a questionable internet search history, okay,

I was speaking to a room of gays last week. I was speaking to a room of gay Republicans.
Room of gays. Yeah.
I said, who do you think has slept with more men?

Everyone in this room combined or Tim Walls? Okay, there is something going on there. And they said, we chose Tim Walls because he's the pinnacle of masculinity.

I said, no, Michelle Obama is in your party.

Not Tim Walls.

He could use a few more testosterone. I mean, really, like, the thing with the camo hat was too much.
When he couldn't load the gun, I mean, you people down in Texas must have been horrified.

We were down in Texas, Doug and I, about a couple years ago with a bunch of friends, and we were going to go motorbike riding, like dirt bike riding in the woods.

It was like midnight, and it was dark, going up to the woods, and there were like 15 of us on these motorbikes, and it was summer, so everybody had on shorts and a t-shirt, and our host looked around and he says, is anybody carrying?

I'm like, Karrion? We're wearing like tiny shirts and shirts. Literally, every man was like, I am, I am, I am, I am.

Like, I'm in Texas. I'm not in New York anymore.
Yeah, I think some of my

never felt so safe in my life. If anyone tries to F with us tonight, we got some Texas Patriots in the audience.
I think we're good. I think we're good.
God bless Texas. Don't mess with it.

Although they are trying to mess with it. What's with Austin?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't get it. I see my MAGA ladies on the front row right here.
I got my Trump lady. Now, who did you vote for in the Trump tab? I love it.

I mean, we did get Jasmine Crockett. Oh,

y'all heard of this woman, Jasmine Crockett?

Okay.

Jasmine Crockett, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point. I mean, she's become one of the most uncouth and articulate women in politics, and it's all a caricature.

It's all a facade with Jasmine Crockett. When you look up her background, right? She grew up in St.
Louis. She went to private school.
She says she passed the bar exam.

I don't know if she was sitting at a bar or if she actually passed the bar exam. I would like to see proof.
Yeah, she says she's an attorney, Jasmine Crockett.

You pull up these old videos of her, she's talking like Eliza Doolittle or Queen Elizabeth. She's like, how do you do? Would you like crumpets and scones?

You look up Jasmine Crockett now, she's like, this mouth phone cracker like a chicken pooka picka picka.

What What the hell happened to Jasmine Crockett? This is identity theft, okay? Identity theft, but the Democrats. Okay, this is why I can't stand the Democrats.

We got some characters on the right, we love Trump, we've got big personalities, but the Democrats are a bunch of overgrown theater kids.

They don't want to work, they want to twerk and post dancing videos and sing. And the Democrats in D.C., okay, they're always breaking into song on the Capitol steps.
Yes, they're running and dancing.

They remind me of that show Glee. Remember that show Glee where they're running and singing and dancing and there's no plot? That is the Democrat Party.
The rapid response choir.

Nothing terrifies Trump more than the rapid response choir. No, and you've got all these beta males like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Corey Booker.
Just beta male, beta male, beta male.

Oh, speaking of Corey Booker, what did the gays say about Corey Booker? Well, my lawyer has told me not to opine on that tonight.

He was knocking on my dressing room door.

Remember those engagement photos the hit of him and his fiancé?

We're joyful.

We're definitely really in love.

I was going to say they looked like Michelle and Barack's engagement photos, so maybe it's true love.

Unclear. All right, so

I did read in my cut in my avid following of Spot On that you are really happy for George Clooney, who has found Italy just too tough an environment in which to raise his children at Lake Como is really unfortunate, I guess, and now has moved to France because he wants his kids to grow up in a place that's not obsessed with celebrity culture.

Absolutely, Megan, and I know this will resonate with a lot of folks in the audience tonight, people in Texas, Arizona, Florida, they talk about this all the time.

These liberals in states like California, they vote for every Democratic candidate. They shill for Gavin Newsome, Kamala Harris.

The second those policies come home to roost and they've got homelessness and crime running amok on the streets, they flee.

They move to red states and then they bring their policies to the red states. You're fleeing these blue states to come to red states and you're bringing the same policies.
We've had it.

Okay, we've had it. Yeah.
And that's with George Clooney as well.

Completely agree. He's such a charlatan.
He's dying to be a journalist. He's not a journalist.
He's got a lot of thoughts about journalism. He of the left.

He wants to be hailed as a hero because he wrote that one op-ed telling Joe Biden to drop out. After the debate, when we all knew he was totally infirm, he's like, aha, I have a big reveal for you.

We're like, we already saw the end of this movie. No, Megan, these Democrats got kudos and bona fides for saying, you know, Joe Biden might be in decline.
And this is like fall of 2024.

The Mars Rover could see that Joe Biden was in decline. Okay.
Like, these Democrats are writing op-eds. Y'all are so brave.
Oh, you're just so brave calling out Joe Biden.

I'm like, the guy is non-compass mintis. He's walking off into bushes.
We can see with our own eyes what's happening. Yes, we did not need George Clooney's op-ed.

Now.

The one person I think it would be the worst. I mean, like, I would work for Katie Porter before I'd work for this person, It has to be Megan Markle.

She literally just lost her 10th head of publicity in, I think, it's three years since she opened her little as-ever business or whatever she's calling it these days. She cannot keep a staff.

All of the people writing bios on her talk about what a nightmare she is, how nasty she is. She's smart enough not to get caught on camera.
Get out of there, you fucking bitch.

She's smart enough not to do that like Katie Porter.

But she's apparently even meaner than her because she cannot keep anyone in her employ.

And she continues to try to mislead us into believing she's got this Netflix series deal, even though season two was a fake.

It was just an extension of season one that she tried to spin as a second season. And now she's trying to spin what's been changed into like, and we want a third season into, we'll take a first look

as though that's a like a victory, like a promotion. No, first look is like, well, you can tell them that we made you a first look deal.

No, Megan Markle, these two little hucksters over in Montecito, I cannot stand them, okay? I call her the Duchess of Scam a lot, the Duchess of White Castle. And my thing with Megan Markle is this.

She is still dining out on her Royal Highness title. She's been gone six years.
You know what I'm saying?

She's still dining out to sell her jams, jellies, and dog biscuits and whatever other crap she's selling. But my thing with Megan Markle is this.
I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

There are so many of us who are excited. This American girl is going to marry this ginger prince, the most eligible bachelor on earth.
She goes in there. She can't stand it for more than six months.

They abscond to the U.S. And in the Queen's final dying days, what does she do? She goes and accuses them all of racism.
She shanks them. She stabs them in the back.

And they welcomed her with open arms. So I will never respect Megan Markle for that.
That's not how you treat people who welcomed you with open arms. Right.
And gave you a life and a career. Come on.

She's not a good person. How long do we give that marriage? Oh, God, maybe 45 more minutes.
We'll check after the show. It's not going to be long.

All right, so tell us a little bit about you, Link, because your political rise has been rapid and really impressive. And it was because the RFKJ campaign found you, right?

It was your own talents that got you noticed. Well, thank you.
And can I just say, I'm on stage with Megan Kelly right now. This is really cool.

Sweet.

I was on her show the first time one year ago this month, okay, and they passed on me. Megan might not even know this.
I had people reaching out. Hey, you guys should have Link.

I would send cold emails. I said, if we can meet, we will hit it off.
So be tenacious, people out there. Because now I'm on the tour.
I did not know that.

So I know that obviously you were Miss Arizona. Hello? Nicely done.
Good. Very, very top selection.

And that you were a businesswoman in New York when you first got interested in turning points. So what were you doing in New York?

So

to go back a little bit further, I mean, right now, first and foremost,

I'm a daughter to the king, the most high. That's the most important

title, if you will.

And

my husband

in August, before all this happened, he had a event where he had some donors at.

And one of the first questions they asked was,

God forbid if something happens to you, like,

what would happen next to Turning Point? And Charlie made a really interesting point. He said, companies, you know,

example, Apple, Macintosh,

he said they're founder-led.

He said, but what I have built is,

will one day, if I'm not around, be vision-led.

And he had made mention at the end, like, you know, Erica will do a a great job running it

and

when I watched that video this week it really put into perspective

my

youth and what I went through growing up and what I witnessed you know my mom having her own company and being a single mother and watching her be the blueprint of

you know I'm I'm not afraid of raising my children alone because I saw my mom do that. I'm not afraid of being a CEO because I saw my mom do that.

The only thing that I fear to be fully transparent with you is being out of the alignment of God's will because I feel like that is a very dangerous position to be in.

And so for me, growing up,

when I was in New York, it was one of those moments where I really trusted God. That's where I needed to be.
I prayed on it at first because originally I was living in LA.

And I said, Lord, if this is where you need me to be, make it so clear. Bought a one-way ticket to New York, one suitcase.
My mom was like, What are you going to do when you're there?

I was like, I'll figure it out once I get there. I just know that's where the Lord needs me.
And so many people questioned that. They said, You're such a strong Christian.

Why would you go to such a dark city? And I said, The more that you take the light out of a dark place, the darker it gets. So that's where I'm going.
And I was there.

Yeah, but when I moved to New York, my brother said, why would you want to move to New York? And I said, it's the big city of dreams.

And he said, scary, nasty, wake up in the middle of the night screaming dreams.

So I get it.

But so you were working in New York for a while and then you went back to Arizona to apply for the turning point job?

So

I was in New York. I was casting director.
I was signed with a modeling agency. I had just gotten my real estate license three months prior to meeting Charlie and

rewind a little bit. I went to Turning Point's office opening for their first building.

And Tyler was, he runs Turning Point Action now.

And he said, you need to meet the CEO. I said, okay, great.
Met him very quickly, shook his hand, said, hi, nice to meet you. Neither of us thought anything of it.

Looking back now, he apparently sat down with Tyler and said, We need to hire her, or Tyler said, we need to hire her, and he goes, mm-hmm.

And he's like, where does she live? And Tyler said, New York. He's like, okay.

I'm going to have a Fox News hit, and then I'm going to sit down with her and interview her in New York. So, lo and behold, he comes to Manhattan, and I thought, I was so career-minded.

My mother raised me

to, and this is why I can relate a lot to

the Manhattan mindset of a lot of young women where it's career oriented.

Because my mom used to tell me, don't feel like you need to rely on a man for

life and work.

And so my mindset, my healthy marriage example was my grandparents.

But my mindset was career, career, career. When I met Charlie, the only reason I sat down with him because I thought it was a consulting position for work.

I was not thinking, I did not date in Manhattan. I saw the pits of hell of the dating pool through my roommates, and I was not touching that with any longest pole you can imagine.

I stayed far away from the dating pool in Manhattan.

So I viewed it as obviously the job interview that it was supposed to be. And

the Lord knew. I just,

Charlie, in some way, similar to how

he sees things in a lot of people, in some way

beautifully saved me from

a huge mistake of putting career over family and career over husband, because it's easy to do when, as a female, when you see Bright Lights Big City.

But

he,

the Lord used him. The Lord used him for me.
How long did it it take you to fall in love with him?

He, that's the funny thing, is it was

it's so interesting because when we were sitting there, I fell in love with how

brilliant he was to be able to articulate what he believed in.

And when he said, I'm not going to hire you, I'm going to date you.

I knew that was the Lord because there were so many times where I said,

that my future husband that's out there he will literally it will be

the only reason why I look up is because the Lord says to look up and that was something to look up to when someone's like I'm gonna date you and so I just and but honestly it was the the constant consistency of I'm here for you

you know, the little texts in the morning, and then it just continued to grow in a beautiful way. So yes, love at first sight, yes, obviously.
But again, my mindset wasn't there. His was.

So, you think of it, you're in an interview, you have to totally do a 180 of a mindset.

But I honestly, where the depths of the love started was when we were playing basketball together at the gym, just shooting around together.

By the time we saw that video where he introduced you as his fiancé,

and the two of you were staring at each other. Oh, I was obsessed.
I'm still obsessed.

Break your gaze. I mean, that's, I think, as the kids would say, hashtag goals for virtually everybody who wants love in their life.
So you did get married. Yes.
You have two kids.

Two precious babies.

And

you told me this in private, but

how many kids did you guys want to have? We wanted to have four.

Yeah.

And I was praying to God that I was pregnant when he got murdered. Oh, wow.

I thought of that once,

just like whether it was meant to be or whether

we'd get news like that. I was like, oh goodness, that would be the ultimate blessing out of this catastrophe.

So now when I see young couples, I tell them, please, like,

don't put it off.

Especially if you're a young woman, don't put it off. You can always have a career.
You can always, you know,

go back to work. You can never just go back to having children.
And they grow so fast and so quickly. But

I just

was praying. Both of us were.
We were really excited to just expand our family. Thank God you have the two.
I know. Thank God.
You know,

I know. One day they'll find out.
Right now they're just, you know, little loves. One day they'll find out that they're Charlie Kirk's children and they'll know what that means.

So I wanted to ask you, Erica, because you are so faithful, whether

you had any premonition that something was going to happen to Charlie. I really do see you as connected, more so than the average, than the rest of us, to God.

And I just wondered, did you have any sort of a feeling?

We always, we, see, the thing is, is that I guess we just operate differently. We always knew there were threats.
We always knew that there were

people out there that hated us with deep, deep passion of hate.

But it didn't scare us.

Never, he was never afraid of that. Neither was I.
Obviously we protect our children. You know, we don't show their faces on the internet.
So that's very intentional. But

I think we lived our life in such a way where

if that was our last day, it was our last day, like we always lived as if it was the last day. That's why Charlie's speeches were so good

because he didn't know if that was going to be his last speech.

And he was

so intentional about every word.

Every word had a meaning.

And every speech... had a connection point for the students and for whoever he was speaking to.
And that's why he never missed missed the opportunity to weave the gospel into what he was saying.

Yes, that's what made him so much more

powerful than the rest of us.

If you see the difference between Charlie Kirk and many of the right-wing pundits or commentators, it's that he supercharged the message that the rest of us were saying with biblical references, with faith-based wisdom, which made it ten times more powerful, and people knew it.

It's one of the things we're all missing right now.

But to answer your question,

we always knew there were threats. We always knew that that could be a possibility.

But obviously,

you know, but we never lived in fear of when that day would be. We just trusted the Lord every day.

You know, now, of course, in the wake of Charlie's death, many are living under threat. I mean, the nutcases have gotten very loud and emboldened.

And I just wonder whether it was the kind of threat environment that you needed to actually worry that something could happen, or was it just the din of like, there are haters out there, you get these nutcase letters sometimes, you know?

Was it something like, no, it's actually getting really serious and we need to worry? Or was it just the din of like, mm-hmm?

No, I mean, you would see obviously leading up to that. There were several shootings, there were several individuals with guns on campus.

So you knew that the threat was there and things were starting to to heat up. But again, it wasn't anything that

you would think any different.

No, no.

I know that the morning he died, he went back into your room.

He had slept in your daughter's room because he got up in the middle of the night and she got up in the middle of the night and there was a switcher room.

We've all been there. Yeah.
But he came back into your room and he got his necklace and he got his wedding ring, right?

And his necklace had a cross on it and it had St. Michael's medal.
Yeah. I wear it every day.
It's right here. Wow.

Oh, it's so beautiful. Yeah.

And Erica,

help me understand.

I genuinely don't understand. I've asked Frank Turek this.
I've asked everyone I can ask this question.

I don't understand how you can be wearing your cross and your St. Michael's medal and be shot to death.
I feel, as Charlie felt, that that's armor.

You know, we wear that to protect us and we believe God will protect us.

How have you squared that?

The Lord is so powerful, and we're not meant to understand

all of his ways.

But there's mercy in that,

knowing that God uses evil for good.

I don't know what exactly that is,

but I do know that the Lord will use it, and if that means revival

the Lord

I

told people I said I have never found more comfort in the statement thy will be done

explain that why

because it shows that control is an absolute illusion

The Lord knows

the number of hairs on our head and he knows the number of our days.

And that's why Charlie was so intentional of making sure everyone knew that their role in life was so important,

and that you guys are all the missing puzzle piece to

this whole story. And

we used to explain it when we would have dinner sometimes about how when you look at a tapestry on one side you see all of these hanging threads. And it doesn't make any sense.

They're They're all different colored threads all over the place. But when you turn that tapestry around,

you see how beautifully woven together and how intentional every thread is to that tapestry.

And

yes, I fully believe that you put on the full armor of God every single day.

I mean, henceforth, all of my bracelets and rings, like everything has meaning to me, and that's why I always wear my bracelets, always wear my rings, always wear my necklaces. And

it's one of those things where we will never understand

God's ways fully. We're not meant to.

We wouldn't be,

our

mortal brains would not be able to even compute what He has designed and put together.

But what I do know

is that

the Lord spoke through Charlie in so many ways,

and

I

still feel so deeply connected to him.

And I know that the Lord used such evil

to bring about something that will eventually come to good.

It's already started.

I've seen it.

I am a big believer in signs.

You know, I think when you lose somebody, if you ask for a sign, do you guys believe in signs?

Have you gotten any from him?

You know, it's so interesting. When we first started dating,

this is personal, but I share it only because maybe it'll be a sign for you to know that Charlie's with you in something.

When we first started dating, we would walk, we were walking to dinner one night, and this happened a lot. The lights would start to flicker,

and he'd look up at the light and be like, you know, it's so weird, this happens to me a lot. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah.

So, our whole dating and whole marriage, anytime we'd be in a room and a light started to flicker, he would just look at me and wink.

It was like our little thing. It's power.

It's a total frequency thing. And so

the night everything happened when we were in Utah, I was in a hotel room by myself, in the bedroom portion by myself, and the bathroom light was on, and it just was a strobe light all night.

Just flare.

And I was like, part of me couldn't sleep because it was a strobe light, the other part of me couldn't sleep because of how just my world has just crumbled, and the other part of me couldn't sleep because I was like, baby, I feel you.

I know you're here.

So that was, you know, some signs. But another sign, too, is just my daughter, you know, just saying saying little things and like I

see you. Is she starting to get it?

I

yes and no.

We talk about heaven. I make it really exciting.

I tell her, Daddy had so much fun today. Everyone who has written letters and sent gifts to my children, thank you.

I tell her, my son, he's only a year and and a half, but I tell both of them,

Daddy is telling all of his friends to send you gifts and letters. And, you know, daddy is orchestrating from heaven to make sure that you always feel so loved.

And the other day, she was like, Tell me about Daddy's day in heaven. So just we talk about that at night.
And then sometimes I'll say, well, tell me what you think he did in heaven today.

And we just, I just try to make it exciting because it is, it is,

heaven is,

heaven's our home.

And so I just want her to know that daddy is having so much fun and building a place for her and our family in heaven.

How do you

know that you haven't watched the video and you shouldn't watch the video and you don't ever watch that video? And you don't want the kids to watch the video. Yeah.

But how are you going to handle it when they get older, Erica, and they start to learn about the haters? Right?

Because there does have to come a time where that needs to be put in the proper perspective. Charlie was so tough.
He,

it was hard to get him rattled about these attacks. But,

and I can speak to this,

having my own children, two of whom are backstage. You know, there comes a time where you have to sort of help your kids understand

the terrible negative messages that are out there about someone they deeply love.

Have you thought about that at all? Like, how are you going to walk them into that?

You know, it's, I first and foremost want my children to have a childhood. So that's another reason why I don't put them on the internet.

It's another reason why I don't expose them to certain screen time.

I've said it before, some of the shows, the only shows I would watch is Charlie, Bob Ross, because he has a very nap-inducing voice.

And then, you know, every now and then it would be some of Charlie's events.

But I want them to be children first, and I want to teach them

so much about God

and Jesus so that when they do get older and they do see the hate,

They also understand how much good is still out there.

And they also understand that they could be the antidote to the evil.

And they can pray for those people and not be afraid. I'd never want them to be afraid.
But I want them to also see that that evil

is because they or their parents or their loved ones is actually doing something to make a difference.

Because if

you're not getting attacked or slandered or

whatever else out there, you're just looking a lot like the rest of the world. And I want them to know that that's okay.

You know,

I have been called so many names. I have been

slandered and

none of that means anything to me. It's all just noise.

It's something crazy. No, it's unbelievable.
Watching people turn on you

has been one of the most unexpected. strange, terrible things.
You know what, Megan? And I know you get this because you have a very, you have a thick skin and and a soft heart.

The thing is, is that the more that people, and it gets outlandish more and more crazy as time goes on because there's just a void that apparently needs to be filled,

but

I'm okay with the world not understanding me.

I'm okay with that.

I'm okay with

they,

you know,

I don't want to look like the world.

As Christians, we're called to be in the world, not of it. And if they could understand me, then I'm not doing something right.

That's well said.

Forgive me, did you see people didn't understand the hug that you and JD had?

They went to the weirdest places, Erica. Oh my gosh.
You guys.

Please. So for those of you who know me, I never, I'm a very,

I love, I hug.

You're an intense hugger. Whoever is like hating on a hug needs a hug themselves.
I will give you a free hug anytime you want a hug. My love language is touch, if you will.
But seriously, that hug.

So I will give you a play-by-play.

I'm walking. They just played the emotional video.
I'm walking over. He's walking over.
I'm starting to cry. He says, he's so proud of you.
And I say, God bless you. And I touch the back of his head.

Anyone who I have hugged, that I have touched the back of your head when I hug you, I always say God bless you.

That's just me. If you want to take that out of context, go right ahead.
Again, that to me shows that you need a hug more than anyone else.

So if anyone... They were acting like you touched the back of his ass.

I feel like I wouldn't get as much hate if I did that versus,

but no, seriously, so now when I go and hug people, I'll bring them back in and be like, I obviously didn't give you the right hug. Like, come, let me touch the back of his head.

I don't know what to do with my hands. You can't touch the head.
What can I touch? I know.

Not me. I've always like, if you touch the back of my head, I'm like, oh, she's feeling the extensions.

Damn. That's another thing.
People think my hair is fake. It is very real.
My hairstylist told me your hair is real. She was like, oh, no, that's all real.
This is real. I know some women.

They like come and touch the back of my head. I'm like, what are you doing?

They're feeling

the weave.

I know.

How is that real? Have you just been growing it out your whole life?

We want to know.

My mother.

Okay, so

I loved sports growing up. I was the

my I started playing basketball when I was five. My first coach,

he was Charles Barkley of all people, which is amazing to have as your five-year-old YMCA coach.

Good to see you with your little Charles Barkley doll. No, it was great.
He's an awesome man. His daughter was a dear friend.

And so I loved sports. And my mom, I was swimming all the time.
I was always super active. And since my mom worked,

I was always at the Boys and Girls Club. Always.
And I was the last kid to get picked up from the Boys and Girls Club every single day.

And the poor counselor, or whatever you want to call him, that had to stand with me waiting for my mom to pick me up every day.

I loved sports. I loved basketball so much.
It was such a good escape for me as a child. And

I remember my hair from swimming was so ratted because I have very coarse hair, and my mom hated combing my hair. And so her solution was a bowl cut

straight across.

Traumatizing. To this point, my hairdresser knows when we get a trim, it is literally like a fraction of my hair.
I will never have hair shorter than my shoulders. Charlie loved my hair, though.

He just

loved how long it was. So, what you're saying is you have long, thick, coarse hair that takes you a while to grow out and take care of, and you're not black or named Michelle Obama.

Which is fascinating that can happen. With all the conspiracy theories out there, I'm not going to touch that one either.

Hopefully, you haven't been paying too much attention to the news cycle, but they know what I'm talking about. No, but

my hair, to get back to that, is something that I just,

it was, I'm not going to cut it, I'm not going to, you know, Charlie liked it long. He liked it, he liked it long, and here we are.

But my mom, if you ask my mom, she'll tell you

it's when

you, she grew up from the standpoint of a Lebanese Italian background, and you're supposed to shave your kids' head when they're two, and then it's supposed to grow back really thick after that.

I was a product of the shaved head, so if you would like to try that on your two-year-old,

unsolicited advice. Does it work on the 55-year-old? I have no idea.
You guys tell me. I don't know.

Am I going to try?

You know, you raised the issue of if you see a shaved head by December, you know why. Oh, yeah.
We all look like Britney Spears. The headline: well, they went full skin head.

Right, yeah, there you go. And are listening to Nick White? That's the last thing.
That'll be, yeah. Yeah, it's a no.

Yeah.

While we're on the subject, because you really were a very strong female athlete, can I ask you your position on that? Because

this is obviously a dominant thing. We had Megan Rapino in the news just this week saying people are, they don't really mean it.
They don't actually have an objection to men playing in women's sports.

They're just using it as an issue. She made all her money.
She's sitting pretty. But she wants your daughter to play against boys.
Your thoughts on it?

So,

well, you can take this as a twofold. So if you're looking at it from the sports angle, where you're playing up against

men,

I mean, I know this has been said before, but then what's the point of female sports?

But to me, being an idiot, I played in college. I worked so hard for that scholarship.

I knew my strengths as a point guard. I hated driving the lane always.
I always shot the three. That was like my my thing.
I'm not driving to have someone who's like 6'7 just

not happening. She said it.

So

for me,

sports has a very special place in my heart. But

as a mom

now and watching my daughter compete, it's just.

I know they say, you know, life isn't fair. I get that.
Life's not fair. But there's certain things

that

are really special.

And women's sports is one of them. And it's really, some people look down on it, some people think it's not it.
But you know, those girls have worked so hard for their position.

And to have it taken away from them by someone who

couldn't rank in their own

sport and field,

it's demoralizing. And it also weighs on the whole topic of

being a woman, being proud to be a woman, being proud to be a strong female athlete. And I wouldn't want that taken away from anybody.
That's right. Having the glorious chance of accomplishment.

I mean,

we'll never win if we're playing against biological boys.

We'll never have that glorious feeling of crossing the finish line first or being the one who has the game-winning shot because it's always going to go to a man. It's just one of the basic things.

We always talk about the unfairness of it and the safety of it, but just think about that, like the glorious feeling of winning, which I never had because I wasn't an athlete. But you had it.

I don't know. I feel like politics somewhat is form of an athletic feat.
So,

you know, I had it like when Don Lemon got fired.

It depends. That was your moment.
Yeah.

You know, we all look for our moments. Yeah, we feel good.

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I want to ask you about the book that you're holding in your hand. Yes, Charlie's book.
I took the dust cover off because I carry his book everywhere. Stop in the name of God.
It's coming out soon.

Charlie's coming out with a book. Yeah.

He's coming out with a book.

Stop in the name of God, which is a great title. Stop in the name of God.
And what is it about? Took him a year and a half to write it.

And this book, I mean, when I'm reading it, I'm like, I did not even know you knew that.

It is so powerful.

Overarching theme of it is the power of honoring the Sabbath and the importance of rest.

And reading this, and I even brought one of his journals with me to read out of it because

the thing that's so interesting about reading this book and reading this journal, and I know a lot of you that are Christians will understand this.

They tell you that when you read the Bible, it's the living word of God and it is.

And you see the Lord in technicolor when you read the Bible and you actually understand

those words and so for me reading Charlie's journals and reading this book

it's like he's I mean he's still he's present with the Lord but it feels like he's still fully here

And that's what's so powerful about this book. And I watched him as a wife completely transform

into

an already. I mean, he was already amazing and incredible, but it totally elevated him when he was honoring the Sabbath and when he really took

that seriously, that time to rest seriously. And

I just can't help but think: like, if everything is, and to go to your point of signs,

I don't think anything is by coincidence, but

to have this be his last book and to him totally master what it means to rest with the Lord, it's all for us full circle now. Because it's the ultimate Sabbath where he is right now.

When did you get to read it? When? Yeah. As much as I can, driving into the office or.
See what I mean? Was it written

in its entirety before Charlie died? Yes. It was.
Yes, it was. He finished writing this, I believe, in

June or July of this year. So you had read it?

But to read it in a book format and not an email format that he would send me is

night and day difference.

What are the pages that are folded up? The one that I, well, all of them are amazing, but the one that I wanted to read was

the part about sleeping because

Charlie, his adrenaline was always going and it was very hard for him to turn his brain off at night. Henceforth, snacks at like 2 a.m.

Did you tell me olives and bananas?

Not even. Together.
Not together, but it was like even snacking in a healthy manner. Almonds, yeah.

Also, we do have to discuss the fact that you said he only had mint chocolate chip ice cream once a year.

Twice. Twice his birthday and 4th age.
Fourth of July on his birthday.

And no ice cream any other day. His self-control and self-discipline was phenomenal.
And to the point, too, where when I was pregnant,

70% of the reason why no one saw me when I was pregnant was because of this situation. The other 30% was because I just was with my babies.
But 70% of it was,

I'm really hungry. I think I, should I have a milkshake? Baby, get that milkshake.
But I don't know if I should have that milkshake. You need the milkshake.
I'm going to go and get you that milkshake.

Do you want a hot fudge Sunday too? I'm going to get the In-N-Out burger. No questions.
I'll be right back. Animal style.
So he'd come home. He loved it because he loved driving around at night.

So he'd come home with the In-N-Out burger, animal style, protein salt, whatever, mixed in with the hot fudge Sunday, the chocolate shake, and he would be so excited to give it to me and watch me eat it.

But that was because he was living vicariously through me.

So, no joke, I got to like 190 pounds. I was like, I am literally going to weigh more than you by the end of this pregnancy.
And he'd be like, Baby, you look great. You look,

don't worry about that. That's just baby weight.
I mean, granted, it does go away. It takes a long time.
You're out there eating his olives? No, no, he's just watching me. And I'm like,

I will enjoy this hot fudge Sunday while you wish that you could have. But he was so self-disciplined and he was so good about eating.

He was biohacking was his love language of being healthy, eating clean. He could not operate on fast food the way that he was in general.
Like, that's why he never drank.

That's why he never, it wasn't from, you know, a motive of I'm better than whoever.

It was from the motive of, I need to operate as if I'm going to war every single day, and I can't operate on this type of food. That's amazing.
And speaking of the sleep, that's very important. Right.

So the sleep was important because I was like,

he loved his sleep. And something that I was very intentional about is when he came home,

I would always let him sleep in, always on the weekends.

I would take the kids, go for a walk, whatever it took, and I would want him to wake up when it was time to wake up because I knew how important rest was for him.

And so, when I read this in the book, I just it was on my heart to share it with you

because the title of it says, Jesus Slept, Elijah Slept, and So Can You.

And he said, so start tonight, close the laptop, power down the phone, let the dishes wait, pull the shades, dim the lights, and give your body permission to do what it was created to do, to rest.

Let your bed become an altar of trust as your head touches the pillow and whisper to God, I release it all to you.

You don't need to check one more email. You don't need to prove anything.
You don't need to carry the weight of the world. It already has a Savior.
And it's not you.

Sleep is not a distraction from your purpose. It is part of your purpose.
It is a sacred rhythm that restores your mind, heals your body, and quiets your soul.

The Sabbath is your weekly reminder that you are not a machine. You are a beloved child.
And children sleep well when they know their father is near. So go ahead, embrace the gift.

Make your Sabbath a day not just of rest, but of sleep. Deep, joyful, and replenishing sleep.
You're allowed, and more than that, you're invited.

Rest isn't weakness, it's worship, and tomorrow will be better because you trusted God enough to rest today. Wow.

And he was keeping the Sabbath.

He was.

So, with that, since today is his Sabbath,

I wanted to read to you from his journal.

Oh, wow, is that it right there? Yeah. Wow.
In his handwriting.

A note that he wrote to himself

to honor the Sabbath. He said, Dear Lord,

thank you for a wonderful week. Thank you for your endless protection and provision.

Father God, thank you for your mercy and grace.

Lord, I did better this week despite the challenges of travel.

I miss my wife. It's hard to be away from her for a few days.

Thank you for giving us a roadmap of what it means to be obedient and put Christ first.

Lord, I have realized the following.

The battle against the mind is Satan's playground.

He dwells and prowls to destroy.

The more in alignment we walk in your command and teachings, the more joy and blessing we experience.

Lord, thank you for showing us the way, the truth, and the life.

Thank you for blessing our organization.

I pray for resolution amongst the divides that Satan is attempting.

Lord, we pray for blessing for the people who feel they have been wronged. Father God, we ask for your guidance, wisdom, and direction, your comfort and your healing.

We love you, Lord. Thank you for another Sabbath.
CK.

Wow.

Erica, I know you touched on it earlier,

but

one of the reactions I have to hearing that is like, I get angry.

How can that man have been taken? How

he was all goodness. The left left who are bastardizing his memory have no idea what they're talking about.
Charlie was all goodness.

I know we can't understand God's plan, but have you had bouts of anger? You know, I think about what the kids are going to miss, what you got gipped out of, what poor Charlie now

is going to miss, and I feel angry. Sadness, of course, obviously, but yes, against the accused shooter, but just

I know you don't ever feel angry against God, but I kind of do.

I understand. How do you make sense of that? And do you have any anger when you think about it towards the Lord, but in general?

The enemy would love for me to be angry.

He would love it.

He would love it.

Because it would distract me from building what Charlie entrusted to me, raising our babies.

turning point,

being there for the team,

being there for what the future holds. And if I had any amount of anger in my heart and spirit, the Lord would not be able to use me.

And every single day, just how Charlie did, stood on stage, he would say, Here I am, Lord, use me.

And if I had that anger in my heart, that foothold from the enemy,

he wouldn't be able to.

I know at Charlie's Memorial, right across the way here,

there was that extraordinary moment where you forgave his accused killer.

And I mean, I looked and I said, that's the most powerful, strongest thing I've ever seen anybody do in my life.

And then somebody helped me understand because I thought I could never do it. I could never do it.
And somebody said to me, forgiveness is an action, not an emotion.

And I was like, okay, that's getting me closer to feeling like I could do it. If I don't actually have to feel loving in my heart toward the person.

But I wonder, like, how do you,

if you could say something to him, if you could, like, if you say something to his parents, like, what would it be? Would it be anger? Would it be sympathy? What would it be?

That's a good question.

Wouldn't be, it wouldn't be,

it wouldn't be sympathy. It wouldn't be anger.

How do you put this?

Anything that I could ever

wish upon him or that family

would pale in comparison

of the justice of God.

And so I would look at them

almost like,

I am so glad I'm not you.

I am so glad I'm not you.

And I pray that

you figure out a way to be right with the Lord, but but

our God is sovereign, but he's also very just.

We serve him.

Very just-filled God.

Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. And I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.
Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

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