Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk and More - Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments

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Speaker 13 Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at Noon East.

Speaker 13 Hey, everyone, it's Megan Kelly, and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your friends and family.

Speaker 13 Today, we are bringing you some of the most memorable moments from the Megan Kelly Live Tour, which came to an end last week. It was so great to see the tens of thousands of you across the country.

Speaker 13 And now we want to look back at some of what you may have missed. We had Donald Trump Jr.
kick us off on night one. That was amazing in Texas.
He was fired up and in rare form.

Speaker 13 I spoke with Tucker Carlson in New York, followed by Ben Shapiro in Florida on back-to-back nights. That made tons of news earlier this month.

Speaker 13 We had so much fun with Piers Morgan in Miami and Link Lauren in Texas. And of course, it came to an endless weekend in a powerful interview with Erica Kirk in Arizona.

Speaker 13 So go check out some of the memorable moments. Have a great weekend.
Listen to it here. And I will see you Monday with Mark Halperin.

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Speaker 13 Before you go, you have to do your best, Donald Trump.

Speaker 14 We're going to have to do some Donald Trump, guys.

Speaker 13 All right, let's talk about...

Speaker 13 Why we're here, right? I mean, we were going to do this tour.

Speaker 13 We announced this tour two days before Charlie was killed, and then the question was raised by basically everybody: do we still do this tour?

Speaker 13 And I know how I felt, and I know how you felt. It's not exactly how my husband felt.

Speaker 13 But we're here, and it's more important right now to be here than ever.

Speaker 14 100%. I mean, the best way to honor Charlie's legacy is to actually be out here, to doing this, to be unafraid, to not back down.

Speaker 14 I think.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 14 Thank you.

Speaker 14 I know I was supposed to do something with him literally the week after that. And as you mentioned, sort of in the intro, you know, I met Charlie, I think he was 19 or just turned 20.

Speaker 14 And it was 2015 at the beginning of that cycle. And a couple friends of mine, actually from Texas, were like, you know, you have to meet this guy.
He's great.

Speaker 14 He's charismatic and he knows everything about politics. I'm like, wow, that sounds great because no one here knows anything.

Speaker 14 I've told you this before, but it it was like when they were like, you're colluding with Russia.

Speaker 14 I'm like, guys, if you knew what was going on in that campaign, like we couldn't collude to order a cheeseburger, okay? So like,

Speaker 14 like, relax. Slow your roll.
Relax, Adam Shiv. Like, give me a break.

Speaker 14 But, you know, they're going on and on about how great this guy is. And they're like, okay, well, he's, he just turned 20.
I'm like, just, okay, enough. Like, stop.

Speaker 14 If there's one thing we had no shortage of, it was guys that didn't know what the hell they were doing. We didn't need someone else who also didn't know what the hell they were doing.

Speaker 14 But these guys were persuasive and I sat down and in five minutes I was like, oh.

Speaker 14 Oh.

Speaker 13 Describe that Charlie versus the Charlie we knew before he was taken from us.

Speaker 14 Honestly, it was the same. You just knew it was a generational talent.

Speaker 14 You know,

Speaker 14 I don't know much, but I think if there's one thing I've probably proven to be fairly decent at in the last decade or so, it's sort of just understanding talent.

Speaker 14 And I recognized it in an instant. I I mean, it was literally five minutes.
I'm like, okay, interview's over. Like, you're traveling with me.

Speaker 14 And, you know, he spent the next, you know, six, seven months. It was everything.
I mean, he'd be making calls. I mean, I have great pictures of Election Day 16.

Speaker 14 And I think I did, it was close to like 75 radio interviews. We were just sort of moving east to west as the polls were shutting down.
I'm, you know, screaming at Sean Hannity.

Speaker 14 He'd be like, just get me on in Western Florida because there's a time difference there. And I can still get a couple people to the polls because, you know, whatever wasn't showing up.

Speaker 14 And, you know, Charlie was basically just in the background operating, you know, my Twitter and other social media handles from my desk in my office as I'm going through this.

Speaker 14 And it was just such an amazing experience. But again,

Speaker 14 he perhaps got better, but he was always so good. He was just going to be better than everyone else anyway.
It didn't take much maturation.

Speaker 16 He just always had it.

Speaker 13 In the past couple of years, Don,

Speaker 13 you've been subpoenaed and investigated more than any human on earth. So is your family.
So is your dad.

Speaker 13 Your dad, they tried to throw him in prison, not to mention the impeachments and all the investigations and the civil lawsuits. And then on top of that, they actually tried to kill him repeatedly.

Speaker 17 Twice, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 13 You saw your dad get shot in the ear. You saw three of his supporters get shot, one of whom died, two others of whom got shot as well.

Speaker 13 And then Charlie got shot and killed and taken from us. This is your life over the past couple of years.
How has that changed you?

Speaker 14 Honestly, it's hard. I mean, there's an element, I guess, you know, I got some of that Trump gene that it just makes you sort of go harder.

Speaker 14 It's not normal. It's not always good.
It's not normal. It's not normal.
It's not always good. I have that for better or worse.
I think, you know,

Speaker 14 yeah, I've been more subpoenaed than probably just about any human being in our family certainly has. I think I've done more hours of congressional testimony for treason, right?

Speaker 14 I mean, you know, know, a crime punishable by death that became like my average Tuesday.

Speaker 14 You know, it's like, oh, they're going to try to kill you again, Don. I'm like, okay, it's fine.

Speaker 14 Can I catch lunch first?

Speaker 13 Most of us are like, I got to get those Halloween decorations up. It's coming.
I'm on deadline.

Speaker 14 Yeah, no, it was my lawyer. It's like, you're the greatest witness ever.
It's like, it's not because I'm actually good at it. I've just done it so much.

Speaker 14 Eventually, you're going to develop some sort of talent for it. I mean, it's,

Speaker 14 you know.

Speaker 13 Do you miss it a little?

Speaker 14 You know, Not that so much.

Speaker 14 No, but

Speaker 14 not that, but it was interesting, right? I think at the end of each one of these election cycles and now

Speaker 14 three presidential cycles and then

Speaker 14 six midterm cycles, you combine them all or whatever it may have been.

Speaker 14 There was a time sort of at the end of 16, especially and at the end of 20,

Speaker 14 you're in the throes of it. And I think it was October 2020.

Speaker 14 I think I did 104 four rallies that month so that's four a day and I don't mean like you know a lunch or a breakfast I mean like you know 300 to 10,000 people in a room four times a day 31 days straight and it's sort of brutal and at the end of it you're like I just sort of want to be done with it 16 especially right because I got sucked out of like the world in which I lived, you know, real estate.

Speaker 14 I was, you know, behind a desk or on a job site. And I was like, sort of want to go back to that.

Speaker 14 And for about a week it was great and you were non-controversial before all this too

Speaker 14 yeah no I mean

Speaker 14 not the same level it was yeah before that no it was it was awesome I could live in New York City I got invited to the cool person parties that all went away

Speaker 14 but no honestly but there was a component of that that was also cathartic right it was a you know that obligatory lunch you all do with some friend you haven't seen in 10 years but you do it once every other year you go and you're like why am I here you know we don't really stay in touch and it's like you'd see all these people and they'd

Speaker 14 They'd text you like I love what you're doing and you're like oh wow, that's great. And you like look on their Facebook pages and you're like Trump's a terrorist.
He's a Nazi. It's like

Speaker 14 I hate these people so much. I'm like, well, which one is it? Good job.
Because you can't be my friend and also do that. Like you can disagree with me politically.

Speaker 14 I mean, I had friends that didn't agree with a lot of what we were doing, but they'd still like... I'm writing a check to your campaign because I just believe in you.

Speaker 14 And even if we don't agree on much politically, like, you're still a friend. And like, those guys are great.
Those guys were...

Speaker 13 You can handle the honesty.

Speaker 14 Yeah, That I can deal with. It was the guys, like, clout chasing on one side and then kissing your ass on the other.

Speaker 14 That I didn't appreciate.

Speaker 13 But, gee, I wonder, because you talk about the gene, you've got the gene. And it is a crazy gene.
It's a great gene.

Speaker 13 And I really have been thinking about this a lot because I now at this point in my life, I think a lot about how do we handle trauma? Like, what's the best way of handling trauma?

Speaker 13 And I really have come over to my husband's Presbyterian way of just shoving it down.

Speaker 13 I really do believe, honestly, like leaning into your traumas and they call it ruminating is very bad for you. We've really,

Speaker 13 we were raised by Oprah and we were raised by wolves. She misled us.
The Trump gene is the way.

Speaker 14 Well, yes and no, right? I was sort of getting there before and

Speaker 14 I sort of ramble, but

Speaker 14 you get there and it feels to normal, but you also then suppress all of it and it's just like, it doesn't matter, put it aside, go back and fight. Doesn't matter, put it aside, go fight.

Speaker 13 Like literally in your dad's case, in the moment where the bullets are still flying.

Speaker 14 Correct. And we all sort of did that to some extent, him more than anyone.
But then you go back and you're, you know, I have five young kids.

Speaker 14 You know, and kids, you know, they have some sort of problem. I'm like, well, they're literally trying to jail me.
They're trying to shut down our businesses. They just tried to kill grandpa.

Speaker 14 Like, you know.

Speaker 14 It's just, you know, whatever they're going through is still a big thing for them, but you can't even think of it as a big thing because it's like, give me a break. It's nothing.

Speaker 14 But it's big for them. And so

Speaker 14 you definitely put a lot of that sort of emotion aside.

Speaker 14 It's like you've just been a beast in a cage, prodded for a while, that you'd sort of adjust to that normalcy, but it makes it actually very hard to be sensitive to other people's ideas and emotions.

Speaker 13 Of that movie Free Solo. Did you see the movie Free Solo?

Speaker 14 100%.

Speaker 13 Did you guys see this? I saw it on an airplane once, where the guy like.

Speaker 14 I used to do a little bit of free climbing solo. Yeah, I have that underdeveloped sense of self-preservation.
And pretty much I'm a pilot. I do the trimex diving.

Speaker 13 So this guy's like climbing mountains, like the most dangerous mountainsides in the world, without any suspension, without any rope whatsoever, and it's extremely dangerous.

Speaker 13 And they talk in that film about how you can kind of burn out your adrenal gland.

Speaker 13 And that's not necessarily a good thing.

Speaker 14 Or it's already underdeveloped, so it takes that much more stimulus to actually get any sort of excitement out of life. And that's what it was like.

Speaker 14 So after 16, you know, you work so hard, you sort of become like, I mean, there's something cool about being pseudo-rock star, right?

Speaker 14 You're on a stage and people are loving it, and you sort of feel like, wow, I'm actually decent at this. This is kind of cool.
So, but you get like, I got to go back to my regular life.

Speaker 14 I'm so over this. And like two weeks back at a desk and I was like, yeah, no, this isn't going to work for me anymore.
No, no, no. I was, no, no, no, like, like, borderline depressed.

Speaker 14 Like, I was like, this sucks. Like, I literally just remade my whole life after that and got, stayed more involved in this.
And just,

Speaker 14 it was sort of game-changing. So, what I thought was sort of like going to be my destiny for

Speaker 14 the rest of my career, it was like, yeah, no, that's not going to work. Like, I literally would not be able to be satisfied sitting at a desk and doing that forever anymore.

Speaker 14 And so it changed everything.

Speaker 13 Well, that leads me to my next line of inquiry, which is,

Speaker 13 is any Trump going to be running for office at any point soon?

Speaker 14 You know, this is always the trick question, right? Because if you say no, then you decide to do something at another stage in life. I appreciate the applause.

Speaker 14 And, you know, someone said, you know, a bunch of friends sent me a poll last week. It's, you know, JD and I are the only guys in double digits.
I'm like, I haven't really been

Speaker 14 out there all that much for it. I'm really.

Speaker 14 But still, well, you know, who knows? You know, honestly, the heir is whoever deserves it, it, really. You know what I mean? There's not an heir.

Speaker 14 Contrary to what we've seen, this isn't a monarchy, right? Like,

Speaker 14 I know they like doing the whole no-kings thing and dressing up like, you know, Bozo the clown, and I think that's supposed to be effective. I don't know.

Speaker 14 It doesn't seem to move the needle much for me, but

Speaker 14 it also is sort of ironic that they're talking about not having kings

Speaker 14 with a president that was elected in a landslide, won the Electoral College, won the popular vote,

Speaker 14 won all seven swing states in a historic fashion,

Speaker 14 before that

Speaker 14 actually left office. I mean, you know, if you're, he's like a really shitty king, actually.
I mean,

Speaker 14 if he's a king, he's doing a lousy job. Because a king wouldn't have done that.
A king wouldn't have allowed himself to be prosecuted and persecuted and almost jailed. almost assassinated.

Speaker 14 A king probably wouldn't allow those protests to happen.

Speaker 14 And if he was a a king, the government would be open and not shut down by Democrats who want to make sure that we're funding health care for illegals. That's right.

Speaker 13 But, you know,

Speaker 14 the narrative, as we all know, the narrative doesn't always have to line up with reality.

Speaker 13 Was that a long way of saying no?

Speaker 14 You have to see.

Speaker 13 So not never.

Speaker 14 No, but.

Speaker 14 No, not now.

Speaker 13 Not now, but not never.

Speaker 14 There may be a time, and if it's required of me, and I can do do that for my country, it's an honor. The fact that I have this kind of reaction is...

Speaker 14 All right.

Speaker 17 Thank you.

Speaker 14 Listen, just that kind of reaction, like, that's sort of,

Speaker 14 I mean, that's the greatest honor I could receive, right? So it means a lot to me. And I see that.
And

Speaker 14 it's, I don't know that I have the ego, actually, which is ironic. I understand, coming from the top.

Speaker 14 But there's no. There is like a level of hubris you actually need to be president, I think, that I'm like, I don't know.
I'm a regular guy. I fight to get where we want to go.

Speaker 14 But after that, I'm okay going in the background. But

Speaker 14 what was so great about

Speaker 14 the last four years under Biden was it's actually what we needed as a country for everyone to understand how fragile our democracy is,

Speaker 14 how fragile the republic really is, how fragile even our economy is, and how the world really needs a strong America. And so it wasn't just the first four years of Trump that showed us that.

Speaker 14 It was how quickly it all disappeared and went away that woke up so many people. But in that,

Speaker 14 there was a sort of component of trial by fire.

Speaker 14 You know, not just for the American people who got it and experienced it because you saw it with your own eyes every day, but for those in the cabinet now,

Speaker 14 for those who were able to be fighters and, you know, were

Speaker 14 subject to the same lawfare and whatever. So now we actually, for the first time in modern history, we have a bench.
We have a bench of guys that can do this. And if I'm part of that, that's an honor.

Speaker 14 But it's not like,

Speaker 14 you know, even in, you know,

Speaker 14 after the first term, you're like, well, man, who's next?

Speaker 14 You know, it wasn't going to be Mike Pence.

Speaker 14 Mike Pence was perhaps like a necessary thing to sort of consolidate other parts of the Republican base that are like, well, this guy from New York, how do we make this happen?

Speaker 14 Perhaps, I don't want to say necessary evil, but like you sort of needed

Speaker 13 the position.

Speaker 14 It made sense at the time, but it was never going to be the future of the party, right? Like

Speaker 14 that was never real.

Speaker 14 And, you know, now it's great to be like, just to see a JD and to see, honestly, you know, Marco's done a great job. He's a star.

Speaker 13 Marco's a star.

Speaker 14 And more importantly, they're guys that aren't just sort of... Playing a role on TV.

Speaker 14 They've actually changed their worldview to understand that sort of America first, MAGA, however you want to look at it, is actually the future of the Republican Party.

Speaker 14 They're not guys that are dying to go back to the old ways and playing a role. They actually believe it, they get it now,

Speaker 14 and that's incredible for the future of our country.

Speaker 13 Okay, now,

Speaker 13 since you and your dad are very similar in many ways, what, and you're talking about how you were bored sitting at your desk for two weeks. What does Donald Trump post-presidency do with his time?

Speaker 14 Oh, God.

Speaker 14 I don't know, Megan.

Speaker 14 Yeah, no.

Speaker 14 You know, it's an interesting one. It's like this was always during the campaign.
It's like, you know, are we working him too hard?

Speaker 14 It's like, no, no, no, keep him going because there's nothing sometimes more scary to us than we're having, you know, perhaps clean up some messes.

Speaker 14 You know, getting the call at like five o'clock in the morning, like, did you see the tweet that went out three hours ago?

Speaker 14 Like, no, what happened?

Speaker 14 Don't worry. You're on CNN in a couple hours.
What are the talking points? It's like, honestly, we don't know. Figure it out.

Speaker 14 The scariest Donald Trump is a bored Donald Trump. So we.

Speaker 14 For real.

Speaker 14 I got to figure out.

Speaker 14 We all have to figure out how to keep him busy.

Speaker 13 He could pull the Obama, not leave Washington and be the shadow president for the next year.

Speaker 14 That would be fun.

Speaker 14 I think one way or the other, he's always going to keep busy. I mean, you know, you even see the passion of what he has now is he's doing additions to the White House.

Speaker 14 I mean, he's always going to be a builder at heart. And I think because he's a builder, it's why he understands how to do these things.
It's also why he's so able to relate to regular people.

Speaker 14 You know, he still always sort of defaults back to his roots of being a builder, someone who creates.

Speaker 14 And so, you know, I imagine he'll always remain politically active because he too likes the action.

Speaker 13 And the party likes him. They don't want him to go.

Speaker 18 Yeah, I mean, they're going to want him around.

Speaker 14 He's remade that party, and he's always going to have an incredible influence there. And so

Speaker 14 it'll be interesting to watch, though. Yes, but we got to keep him busy one way or the other.

Speaker 14 I'm going to actually take up golf despite all the things that I don't want to do. And just be like, I just got to go play golf with him because if he's alone and bored, it's going to be problems.

Speaker 13 Let's get him away from the true social.

Speaker 13 Let's talk about the law fare that's happening now.

Speaker 13 What happened to your dad was deeply wrong. It was immoral.
It was criminal. It really was criminal what was done to him.

Speaker 13 And you guys saw that, you know, now before Trump took office, he filed a couple of complaints with the DOJ seeking to be

Speaker 13 made whole on all the money he had to spend to defend himself. And the media has gone nuts with it.
Oh my God, it's conflict of interest. How could he? How could he?

Speaker 13 Do you know, if you listen to AM update, you do know this.

Speaker 13 Do you know how much those losers, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, those two FBI lovers who were tweeting, you know how much they got from the DOJ?

Speaker 14 Two million dollars.

Speaker 14 And they for perjuring themselves. Yes.
And setting up a president.

Speaker 13 They're plotting actively against him. So they filed a complaint because they were mad their tweets got released.
And Merrick Garland's DOJ paid out.

Speaker 13 So why shouldn't Trump file a complaint and get paid out for all of his heartache? But I'm just speaking of the law fair and how widespread it was and how bit by bit your dad's trying to make good.

Speaker 13 The law fair that is being unleashed against his enemies. We've had lots of debates about it.
I'm totally in favor of it because I really think they deserve it. It's accountability to me.

Speaker 13 But what's your reaction? Because the argument against it by smart people is: two wrongs don't make a right, and it's not going to stop them.

Speaker 13 You know, when they get back in power, they're going to do it again.

Speaker 14 It's actually a nuanced sort of answer because, like, you know, I guess the normal Don Jr. response would be like, just go after him.
But

Speaker 14 these guys did break the law. They actually did.

Speaker 14 There's a difference between what they did to my father, where they're literally going back and literally changing the statute of limitations for a short period of time to be able to try to get him.

Speaker 14 When they're venue shopping, you notice he was only sued in Atlanta, New York, D.C.

Speaker 14 There's a difference between creating a thing, the steel dossier,

Speaker 14 when it's manufactured to end a result. That's different than John Bolton.
taking home classified documents and breaking the law and doing that. That's not lawfare.

Speaker 14 That's actually called enforcing the law.

Speaker 14 So there's two different things. Now, the corollary to all of that is,

Speaker 14 generally speaking, there's no one weaker than a Republican in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 14 No, no, no.

Speaker 14 You've seen it. You can be the most die-hard red meat guy, and you get to Washington, D.C., and all of a sudden you're like, wow, I love the perks.
I love getting my ass kissed.

Speaker 14 I love being invited to the cool person party.

Speaker 14 You know what? They leave me alone if I'm like

Speaker 14 85% Republican. If I fold when it actually matters to my constituents, but can be beneficial to the Democrats, you have an easy existence.
The Washington Post isn't doing their hit pieces.

Speaker 14 I look at those hit pieces back to mind.

Speaker 13 Roberts comes to mind.

Speaker 14 Yeah, well, no, of course. Roberts.
But by the way.

Speaker 14 How many strong Republican senators do we have? Like three?

Speaker 14 That you'd actually want to be in one of these political fights with?

Speaker 14 I mean,

Speaker 14 it's pretty plentiful. And so there's a component of me that believes I'd love none of this to ever happen.
I'd love it to actually be fair. That's not ever been the case.

Speaker 14 And until we actually start fighting the same way the Democrats do, it's never going to stop because they're more than happy to take their wins. You know, they talk about democracy.

Speaker 14 It's all a sound bite. You know, they talk about all these things.
They're so great. Until it happens to them, and it's like, well, this is different.
You know, rules for thee, but not for me.

Speaker 13 Unprecedented. They actually keep using that word as people get indicted on the left.

Speaker 14 It's like, unprecedented. I'm like, what were you doing to me, to my father, to half the Republican Party? You know, what did you do to Peter Navarro? What did you do to Steve Bannon?

Speaker 14 You know, that was unprecedented.

Speaker 18 Roger Stone.

Speaker 14 Roger Stone. Now that it's happening back to them.

Speaker 14 It's unprecedented all of a sudden. You know, they can get away with that, and they've gotten away with it because they also control still the mainstream media narrative.

Speaker 14 They control a vast majority of tech.

Speaker 14 You know, I think what Elon's done is great to at least people can finally see, like, oh, wait a minute. It's not actually unprecedented, but it's hard to believe.

Speaker 14 There are people that see that and they're like, oh my God, it's unprecedented. Like, did you not turn on a TV for a solid eight years?

Speaker 14 Like, eight years when, you know, Trump, what, 96 indictments? They wanted to put my father away for 750 years. I mean, he's a young and vibrant 79.

Speaker 14 But I think even for a high-energy guy like Donald Trump, like 750 years may be a lot.

Speaker 14 I'm not sure he gets through that.

Speaker 18 By the way, does he sleep?

Speaker 13 Because you hear the reporters on board Air Force One, like, you can't fall asleep because he might come back at any second.

Speaker 13 He's constantly talking to his cabinet officials, and like, you don't want to be the reporter who's asleep when he comes back for the fourth time and you miss the big scoop.

Speaker 14 Honestly,

Speaker 14 I've rarely seen him sleep. If he does,

Speaker 14 it is like three hours a night.

Speaker 14 But it's been his whole life.

Speaker 14 So I remember coming out of the Wharton School of Finance and starting to work in the business and stuff like that. And

Speaker 14 young 20-year-old guy in New York City, I'd go out and I'd be partying with my buddies. I'd probably get home at

Speaker 18 12.

Speaker 14 10.30.

Speaker 14 10.30. Let's just say that for.

Speaker 14 And Saturday morning, my phone would ring. You know, Don, why aren't you in the office?

Speaker 14 I'm like,

Speaker 14 why aren't you in the office? He's like, I'm in the office. That's why I know you're not in it, Don.
I'm like, shit. Nightmare.
I'm like, I'm stumbling over the hairs everywhere. I'm hungover.

Speaker 14 And I'm like, we're going to get to the office.

Speaker 14 And on a Saturday, sometimes Sunday.

Speaker 14 He's just built this way. He's just always been that way.

Speaker 14 I mean, perhaps the most and I've I've sort of been impressed with his stamina that way for most of my life, but I mean, even, you know, this last election, the days prior to the election, I mean, I saw him go two all-nighters in a row.

Speaker 14 Yeah. Like, it was all day, seven events, and I'd speak at some of them, but when he's there, he's speaking for an hour.
Yes.

Speaker 14 I mean, it's slated for an hour, and sometimes it ends up being two and a half.

Speaker 13 The weave.

Speaker 14 But, you know, you got six of them.

Speaker 14 And we're in Michigan, and it's 2.30 in the morning, and that's 3:30 by the time he dealt with the time difference or wherever we end up. I think it was Michigan was the last one.

Speaker 14 And he's still going strong. Six of these speeches, five of these speeches, for two hours apiece.
It's 2:30 in the morning. He's going strong.
He gets on the plane and he starts playing music.

Speaker 14 And I'm like, I just want to go to bed. Like, I literally, like, for the love of Christ, please just turn off the music.
And he's blasting Elton John.

Speaker 14 It's wild. And then we get there, and it's Election Day.
And he's, I get home.

Speaker 18 It's know 6 a.m.

Speaker 14 I try to get like an hour or two. I get home.
I take a shower. I'm about to go to bed.
And I turn on the TV quickly. And he's doing interviews.
I'm like,

Speaker 14 I'm like, no, I felt like I'm not living up to, you know, the standard.

Speaker 14 I literally had like two hours till my next thing. I'm like, I just can't go to bed because I can't let this guy outdo me.

Speaker 13 Let's talk about it. Let's talk about why Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 17 I interviewed Fuentes.

Speaker 17 Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes like three weeks ago.

Speaker 17 It mostly wasn't public, but Fuentes was attacking my father,

Speaker 17 a subject I have literally no sense of humor. My father passed in

Speaker 17 March and was really kind of the patriarch, not kind of, he was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family. And

Speaker 17 some of what Fuentes was saying about my dad was, you know, true, okay, which made it worse.

Speaker 17 But I was just so offended by that. I couldn't deal with it.
And

Speaker 17 my son and my wife. So, you know, I was really mad at Fuentes.
And then I did an interview. And just out of the way, I was so mad, it like popped out and I attacked Nick Fuentes

Speaker 17 in this interview. This was last month, I think, ish.

Speaker 17 And then I got all these calls from people saying, do you know anything about, I don't know anything really about Nick Fuentes other than he's attacking my dad, my wife, and my son.

Speaker 17 And it was like, actually, Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator among young men.

Speaker 13 Like, period. He's got 5 million subscribers on Rumble.

Speaker 17 It's bonkers. And I didn't know any of it.
I mean, I'm 56, so I'll just like state the obvious.

Speaker 14 Not our demo. My oldest child is 31, like much older than Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 17 So I kind of missed a lot of this stuff. I pride myself on not missing things.
I totally missed that.

Speaker 14 Really?

Speaker 17 And then it turns out that he has no advertisers. They've been trying to cancel him since freshman year in college.
Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut him down freshman year in college.

Speaker 17 And it didn't work. In fact, it had the opposite effect.
So I was like, hmm.

Speaker 17 And so I talked to a million people I know. Like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes to hear what is this, actually.

Speaker 17 And so I decided to do it. And I thought it would be controversial.
I didn't think it would become what it's become.

Speaker 17 I'm not going to offer any defense other than, you know, it's kind of interesting. I have literally, I mean, I've interviewed anybody.

Speaker 17 I've been been doing this for 34 years, so I've interviewed everybody, most of them bad people, to be honest.

Speaker 17 I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil War, all cannibals, every single one of them, had tasted human flesh. And first of all, I kind of like them.

Speaker 17 I'm just being honest, because I like people. Don't agree with cannibalism.
Pretty opposed.

Speaker 19 For the record. But I'm just that way.

Speaker 17 I just like people. And the closer, if you can, like, smell someone and talk to them, like, it's hard to not see the human in the person, even if he's a cannibal.

Speaker 13 Did the Liberian cannibal smell good

Speaker 17 kind of rank to be honest actually during the interview this is i'll never forget this i was in africa for to cover the civil war and i'm interviewing this guy and he was like you know commander butt naked or it wasn't actually commander butt naked who was a famous militia leader during that war who fought needless to say butt naked but i'm interviewing this guy and his cell phone goes off and it's the woody woodpecker theme song

Speaker 17 And I was like, oh my gosh, you're human. It was like hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial.

Speaker 17 Like, I interview people who are hated and in some cases, like, demonstrably evil. And I asked them, why did you do that? And what, you know, what's your account of yourself?

Speaker 17 Like, tell me who you are. What do you believe?

Speaker 17 And I wanted to, that was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Fluent. He's like, what is this?

Speaker 14 Tell me.

Speaker 17 You know, I'll give you two hours. I have only watched your clips are like a minute long.
I want to hear, like, why don't you describe what you think? Because I think that's...

Speaker 17 The small role that I play, which is to get documentary evidence of people describing what they think. I did it with Putin.

Speaker 17 I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world, because I'm interested. Not because I agree with him, because I think it's interesting.

Speaker 17 And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nick Fuentes,

Speaker 17 and it's this, and I said it, which is, I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country from Belgium to Congo to Israel, because they're foreign countries.

Speaker 17 Yes. And I'll never give up that.
Right. In fact, it's an obligation, I would say.
And to be reasonable about it.

Speaker 17 But what's in America's interest? Totally legitimate. It is totally illegitimate and very specifically un-Christian to attack people for their DNA.
Like, I hate this group.

Speaker 13 You wanted him to hear that.

Speaker 17 He has, we all have to hear that. And because that is the basis of Western civilization.
Western civilization is derived from the New Testament. It is based on Christian ethics.

Speaker 17 And the core difference between the West and the rest of the world, not just Israel, but every other country, is that we don't believe in collective punishment because we don't believe in blood guilt.

Speaker 17 We don't believe that you are born guilty, and we also don't believe that you're born virtuous. We believe that God created every person as an individual.
God did not create communities.

Speaker 17 Every woman gives birth to a human being, and every person has the spark of God inside him. I mean, that's what we believe as Christians.
And every person has the possibility of redemption.

Speaker 17 And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form.

Speaker 17 But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians. He was murdering Christians.

Speaker 17 He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament, but he was on the way to go murder more Christians that he met Jesus, and then he became the great evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament.

Speaker 17 So he's my personal hero, but he's also living testament to the truth about people, which is each one of us was born as an individual, and we will face God alone at the end to account for our lives.

Speaker 17 And along the way, there is always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you look like, or what your religion is, that you can change and that you can be saved by Jesus.

Speaker 17 That is Christianity in three sentences. And so

Speaker 17 that is reflected, even for people who aren't Christians, that is reflected in an ethical framework and a legal code that is the only truly unusual and great thing about the West, which is we do not punish the innocent.

Speaker 17 We only punish the guilty. We do not, you commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail.
We don't execute your cousins. We don't commit genocide against your whole tribe.

Speaker 17 We punish you because you did it. We treat each person as an individual.
That is Western civilization. That's a Christian understanding.
It does not derive from any other religion.

Speaker 17 Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim. And that's the basis of our justice system, which, again, even non-Christians appreciate.
That's why they move here.

Speaker 17 Because it's self-evidently more humane. That's where the idea of human rights comes from.
They're not collective rights. It's not that your tribe has rights and his tribe doesn't.

Speaker 17 It's you as an individual have rights. And that idea

Speaker 17 is not only being challenged in our country, it's being disregarded. It's disregarded in DEI.
It's disregarded in affirmative action. Identity politics is a refutation of that idea.

Speaker 17 We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for the same reason. That is anti-Western.
It's evil. And it leads, in the end,

Speaker 17 inexorably to genocide. That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s under the Nazis.
It's the root idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994.

Speaker 17 It's the root idea, just saying, behind what's happening in Gaza right now. Where it's like, we're going to kill the kids too.
We don't care. And we're going to, by the way, move everyone out because

Speaker 17 they're a people that is fundamentally opposed to us.

Speaker 17 Yeah, well, I'm not for that. Sorry, because that's not the Western understanding of justice.
We punish the guilty alone.

Speaker 16 We do not punish the innocent.

Speaker 14 Period.

Speaker 17 And that's not racism. And in fact,

Speaker 17 it's the answer to racism. It's the answer to anti-Semitism.
It's why anti-Semitism is wrong. It's why racism is wrong.
No, you're not better than me.

Speaker 17 No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born. You're the same as me because we were both created by God.

Speaker 14 Period.

Speaker 17 So the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes, any tribe, including my tribe, is prima facie immoral. And yet it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics.
And I reject it.

Speaker 17 I reject it when it manifests as anti-Semitism. I reject it when it manifests as anti-white racism.
which has been pretty common.

Speaker 13 I know we're not supposed to say it, but it's real.

Speaker 17 But I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are. I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral.
It's anti-Christian, and that is the destruction of the West.

Speaker 17 And so when I see these people be like, we're defending Western, when Mark Levin's like, we're defending Western civilization, or Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're Palestinian so we can defend Western civilization.

Speaker 17 I'm like, no, no, no. You're the enemy of Western civilization because collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization.
Period.

Speaker 14 Wow.

Speaker 17 That's what I wanted to say, and I said it, and they called me a Nazi, and I'm like, actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason.

Speaker 13 But wait, what I hear you saying, sort of, is that you wanted to reach him. You wanted him to reach.

Speaker 17 Of course, I want to reach him and everyone watching.

Speaker 14 But were you trying to help him in a way?

Speaker 17 I want to tell the truth as I understand it with the ever-present knowledge that I'm kind of a buffoon and I'm often wrong. I supported the Iraq War.
I remind myself of that every single day.

Speaker 17 I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors and judgments. I've been carried away by enthusiasm and particularly by anger many times in my life.

Speaker 17 So, with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay, you always have to remember that because I'm not God.

Speaker 17 I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can in every venue, in every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can.

Speaker 17 And that's why Nazi Week doesn't bother me anymore because I'm not a Nazi.

Speaker 14 I'm a Christian.

Speaker 13 Of course.

Speaker 13 So, what about?

Speaker 13 I don't want to spend the whole time on this, but I am curious.

Speaker 13 The main criticism, as I understand it, has been, well, yes, platforming, they say that. I don't accept platforming as a valid objection.

Speaker 14 What is that a verb?

Speaker 17 By the way, you take a noun and you make it into a verb and nobody says anything. As a former editor, I say no.

Speaker 14 Yeah, agreed.

Speaker 13 Honestly, but

Speaker 13 as far as I know, Nick Fuentes hasn't eaten anyone. You know, I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people, and he was platformed by Diane Sorrow.

Speaker 17 We have a member, a sitting member of Congress. I spoke to the Speaker of the House about this today.
We have a sitting member of Congress from Florida called

Speaker 17 Randy Fine, who has literally texted or put on Twitter, we should kill them all, every single one. Someone texted a picture of

Speaker 17 a dead baby, and he laughs at it. And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military committing genocide, and that's cool.

Speaker 14 It's not cool.

Speaker 17 And let's just be honest. That is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said.
Period.

Speaker 13 So the main pushback has been when you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan or etc., these journalists went after them, like exposed the terrible things.

Speaker 13 And Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things.

Speaker 17 Big time, including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all, in my opinion. Yeah.

Speaker 13 I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust, likening it to baking cookies in the oven, and there's no way you could have gotten to six million, seems to be his theory.

Speaker 13 He thinks to, seems to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms.

Speaker 13 So what do you say to those people who say,

Speaker 13 why don't you raise any of that?

Speaker 17 You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor.
Buzz off.

Speaker 16 I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 17 You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? I'll give you a cell. Call him.
And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you.
I got the same thing with Putin.

Speaker 17 Why aren't you yelling at him? Okay, why? So I can show that I'm a good person. I care about what my wife thinks, my children think, and God thinks.
And that's it.

Speaker 17 I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you.

Speaker 17 You may think I'm a terrible person. Okay, I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand

Speaker 17 what people think. And I'm committed to that.
And if you don't like it, don't watch. That's my view.
But that doesn't mean that I share the views.

Speaker 17 I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes. I mean, please.

Speaker 17 And I don't, you know, I'm not telling them even in private because I'm not into that at all. But I will say, just since you brought it up, one thing that did bother me was the Usha Vance thing.

Speaker 17 And I did actually,

Speaker 17 I generally make it a practice not to be like, you said this, and da-da-da-da-da, and the internet tells me, or the ADL says, you said this. It's like, why don't you just tell me what you do think?

Speaker 17 Like, why don't you speak for yourself because we're adults? That is my approach with everybody, whether I like him or don't like him.

Speaker 17 But the Usha Vance thing did upset me because I know Usha Vance and I love Usha Vance. And I was really offended by that just personally because I know her, right? And in a normal way.

Speaker 17 And I did think about that. Like, that pissed me off.
And I,

Speaker 17 I'm just being as honest as I can be. I didn't want to repeat it.

Speaker 13 Yeah. No, you're always actually, you know.
As a journalist, you're always there. Like, do I repeat it?

Speaker 17 Well, if you know the person and spread it.

Speaker 14 Kind of.

Speaker 17 And it's like so wounding. And he attacked my wife, as I said.
So

Speaker 17 I don't know. I'm sensitive on that.

Speaker 14 So let me ask you. Maybe they made the wrong call, by the way, probably.
So now having done it, what do you think of him? About Fuentes? Yeah.

Speaker 17 I think

Speaker 17 it's so funny.

Speaker 17 I did not make Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 17 Nick Fuentes is, well, he's just enormously gifted as a broadcaster. I mean, it's like, it's unbelievable his talent is.
I mean, I have done that job.

Speaker 17 Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously, but I mean, I've sat in front of a camera and talked.

Speaker 14 He's really good at it.

Speaker 17 He has not been canceled. He can't be canceled.
So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of like, what place does he occupy in our, what does he say about our society?

Speaker 17 And I'm not making excuses for anybody else's views. I'm just saying as a factual matter, if this is the most popular person among young men, young white men,

Speaker 17 then we need to like start thinking about why that is. And we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which is destroy them, actually.

Speaker 17 And no one wants wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever. No one ever wants to repent.
They all want to cast stones.

Speaker 17 They don't see the plank in their own eye. This is including me.
It's just humans are like this. And they want to be like Nazi.

Speaker 14 And it's like, oh, yeah, okay.

Speaker 14 Great.

Speaker 17 But like, how did this happen?

Speaker 13 Why are they listening to him? Kind of. Can I ask you?

Speaker 17 And part of the reason is because the Republican Party completely betrayed

Speaker 17 its voters by obsessing over Israel.

Speaker 14 That's just a fact. Like, what is this?

Speaker 17 It's a country of 9 million people. I'm not against Israel.
I visited on vacation. I've always liked.
Jerusalem is my favorite city in the world.

Speaker 14 I'm not against Israel.

Speaker 17 But, like, why is that the center of our conversation? It's 9 million people, no resources. The only strategic value Israel has is the extent to which we have to defend Israel.

Speaker 17 But take that out, and there's no value at all.

Speaker 14 I'm not against it.

Speaker 17 I'm just saying, like, we're a country of 350 million people. We're the most important country in the world.

Speaker 17 And our politics is, and every, practically every member of Congress spends all day talking about Israel. And if you're a normal person, you're like, I don't hate Israel.
I certainly don't hate Jews.

Speaker 17 But what the hell is this?

Speaker 18 And then it's like, shut up. You can't talk about it.

Speaker 13 But wait, can I clarify what you mean? Because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men. I was with you.

Speaker 13 Both parties have abandoned young men, especially the Democrats, though, for so many other reasons. But why Israel? You're saying the focus

Speaker 14 of Israel.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I mean, look, Trump is elected. I campaigned for him.

Speaker 17 And I love Trump. I just want to say that.
And I talked to him the other day, and I love Trump.

Speaker 17 And I've known him for 25 years, and

Speaker 17 I could write many books on Trump, and they would be positive, basically. But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit? Bibi.
Then he comes again. Then he comes again.

Speaker 17 And it's like the energy of the administration and of the entire U.S. government is all of a sudden about Iran.

Speaker 14 A war with Iran? Really?

Speaker 17 How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime? Zero, because that's the number. How many people do you know who've died of a drug OD? Some.

Speaker 17 Maybe you have a nephew who did. So like, what is this? I know you want to have regime change in Iran.

Speaker 14 I'm not mad at Israel at all.

Speaker 17 It doesn't, I'm not actually mad at Israel. I'm mad at our leaders for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's country.

Speaker 17 And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government works for you because you own the government because it's a... It's a democratic republic.

Speaker 17 Like, what the hell is going on? And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi, you're an anti-Semite. Well, actually, I'm not.

Speaker 17 And I'm in a really great place to say that because I actually, I'm really am not.

Speaker 17 And no matter how many times they say that, it doesn't bother me because it's, I think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me because I'm pretty reasonable.

Speaker 14 Like, who, who would disagree with what I'm saying?

Speaker 17 I'm just, maybe you do.

Speaker 17 Okay, you do, but

Speaker 17 you do. You disagree with what I'm saying.
But, like, what is the answer? Why would the U.S. government spend all this time?

Speaker 17 No, I'm a sincere question. Why is the overwhelming majority of the U.S.
Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby?

Speaker 14 Like, what?

Speaker 17 Like, what is the answer?

Speaker 14 Why is that okay?

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 17 they want to prevent you from asking that question because there really isn't a good answer other than shut up. And if there's...

Speaker 17 If that's the only answer, I just, by my temperament and my age, I'm just not going to shut up because that's not hate. It's sincere.
What do you make of that?

Speaker 13 What do you make of of the folks who say Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East? They're in a very tough neighborhood. They have our shared Western values.

Speaker 13 They have our back, we have their back, and that we have much more in common with the people in Israel than we do with some of these surrounding countries.

Speaker 14 I would say what are you talking about?

Speaker 13 Pushing things like Sharia law, which I heard you comment on.

Speaker 14 Okay.

Speaker 17 What's happening in Gaza, which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists, they've said that to, this is not a left-wing talking point. Have you read?

Speaker 17 It's just a fact.

Speaker 17 Read Ben Gavir Smotrich on this. These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying, starve them out, kill them, kill their children.

Speaker 17 This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel saying this out loud. That is not Western.
That's Eastern. That is totally incompatible with Western civilization.

Speaker 17 We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances, or else we're as bad as the people we're fighting. And that, by the way, the U.S.

Speaker 17 government has done the same, and I've complained about it a lot. And no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government.

Speaker 17 So why is it verboten to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away?

Speaker 14 What the hell are you talking about?

Speaker 13 That is a problem.

Speaker 17 I just believe in the principle. And second, tell me why they're our most important ally.

Speaker 17 Right down the road, you've got countries that have like the bulk of the world's energy supply.

Speaker 17 That's not an important ally what if you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America you don't want to make unnecessary enemies I like Israel for the eighth time who how many people have been there on vacation just because they like it I have I took my kids I'm not against it I don't want it to get hurt but from a geostrategic point of view your duty if you're running the State Department or running the White House or a member of Congress is to serve the people who elected you in your country.

Speaker 17 So you need to think seriously as you do with your own children, what's good for them.

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Speaker 16 I would hate for people to believe that the Nick Fuentes sort of, my problems with Nick Fuentez are about me, because they really are not. They are about the fact that Nick Fuentes

Speaker 16 is a truly horrifying person who believes truly horrifying things. And again, there is a reason why Charlie Crick despised him.

Speaker 16 There is a reason why every mainstream political commentator has been highly critical of him. It's the reason why, these are not arguments.
This is not a person who's making arguments.

Speaker 16 He's a Hitler-loving troll. And I say that advisedly.
He literally says on his show that he loves Adolf Hitler.

Speaker 16 Okay, so just the reason this has come up in recent weeks is because Tucker, your guest last night, decided to have him on last week and to completely gloss him, in my opinion.

Speaker 16 And you can make up your own opinion as to what you think Tucker was doing during that interview, but I know what it looks like when Tucker Carlson decides to be an aggressive interviewer, when he decides to ask difficult questions of people.

Speaker 16 Tucker is eminently capable of doing that, and he did it to Ted Cruz quite thoroughly.

Speaker 16 But he decided for any number of reasons, and I try not to attribute motivations to people, that he was going to treat Fuentes with kid gloves, that he was going to not ask him about any of the things that I've just mentioned, literally any of them,

Speaker 16 and to essentially normalize Fuentes, act as a sort of gateway drug or as a

Speaker 16 what I've called Tucker, as an ideological launderer of bad ideas over the last couple of years. And this is not coming from a place of animus for Tucker on a personal level.

Speaker 16 I've known Tucker for a very long time. Tucker and I, whenever we're in personal situations, we get along great.

Speaker 16 I think I saw that Tucker talked about how we were at Charlie's memorial in the vice president's box together, and he's correct.

Speaker 16 I mean, we saw each other, we said hello, we talked, it was very friendly, and all of that.

Speaker 16 And it's also true that a couple of days after Charlie's murder, he reached out and he called me and he said, listen, I know that we're at odds, and we've been at odds for a number of reasons, mainly political.

Speaker 16 I mean, again, on a personal level, I'd go fishing with Tucker anytime.

Speaker 16 The real question is, for me, I got into this business because I care about the ideas and I care about the ideals.

Speaker 16 And so when you are determining what is conservatism, what should the future of America look like? And where do you draw the lines? Those are the questions that I need to answer in my job.

Speaker 16 For me, my business is really not about friendship.

Speaker 16 I have lots of friends, people who I love, with whom I disagree on politics, and don't believe they should be leaders in the conservative movement, for example. And that to me is the real question.

Speaker 16 In any case, Tucker reached out.

Speaker 16 He said, you know, we've had a bunch of disagreements, and what if we could put those aside and align toward the DSA in particular, is what he mentioned.

Speaker 16 And I said, you know, Tucker, you're totally right. Let's do that.
That would be great.

Speaker 13 In fact, the TSA?

Speaker 16 The DSA, DSA.

Speaker 14 The Democratic Socialist America.

Speaker 13 Why the TSA? How did that bring you together? The Democratic Socialist America.

Speaker 16 Yes, and the reason I'm taking DSA only divides people.

Speaker 16 The reason I'm taking out my phone is because I don't just, you know, I like to evidence what I'm saying with, you know, actual evidence. So I texted him, and the text exchange was very nice.

Speaker 16 I mean, here's what the actual text exchange went like after the call. So I texted him, and I said, thanks so much for calling.
It means the world. It truly does.

Speaker 16 Should we do a show together talking about the DSA threat, Democratic Socialist America threat, and orienting in the same direction?

Speaker 16 Happy to do whatever it takes to bring everyone back together for the fight that that matters. And Tucker then wrote back: Thanks, man, I appreciate it.

Speaker 16 I'm going to spend the next week or two thinking about how to be most effective. The country is clearly on the brink.

Speaker 16 I reached out repeatedly after that. Nothing happened.

Speaker 16 And again, I thought it was a good idea at the time.

Speaker 16 I think I felt differently after I saw what he did with Nick Fuentes and after he proceeded, in my opinion, to spend the subsequent weeks doing literally nothing to fight the left.

Speaker 16 Again, I say this with sadness because Tucker used to to be, I think, a deeply important part of the conservative push to win.

Speaker 16 The number of times that Tucker Carlson has mentioned Zorin Mamdani since October 5th on his show is once.

Speaker 16 And it was in the context of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson talking about the appeal of Zorin Mamdani.

Speaker 16 Just by way of contrast, not because I'm a perfect representative here, but because you've talked about Zorin Mamdani a lot. A lot of us have.

Speaker 16 Since October 5th, I did 17 separate shows on Zorin Mamdani, including four in the last week before the election.

Speaker 16 Okay, because when you're orienting against the left, you really should orient against the left.

Speaker 13 Okay, so a lot in there.

Speaker 13 I think, just to be clear, so the breakdown from the détente after Charlie was him interviewing Fuentes. Like, was that the next thing that happened that led to the blow-up?

Speaker 16 I mean, yes. I mean,

Speaker 16 I had not spoken a word.

Speaker 13 It wasn't that he attacked you, like, or you had a...

Speaker 14 I don't care about people.

Speaker 16 It was was that energy. And I don't think Tucker cares about people attacking him.
I mean, again, we're professionals. We're in a business where people comment on what we say publicly.

Speaker 16 Again, this is why I think you and I differ on our angle with regard to, for example, Candace Owens. I think that what Candace Owens is doing right now is evil.
It is evil what she is doing right now.

Speaker 16 Okay, and I say that again.

Speaker 13 But what.

Speaker 13 I didn't opine on whether it's evil or not, but my position is it's really none of my business.

Speaker 16 I have a question. Why is it none of your business? I mean, you comment on these things for a little bit.

Speaker 13 I'm not mother of the internet.

Speaker 16 No, but if this were on the left and somebody were accusing Charlie Kirk of his wife having murdered him, I assume that you would be talking about it.

Speaker 13 Is that what Candace is accusing Erica of?

Speaker 14 Yes.

Speaker 13 Of murdering her own husband?

Speaker 16 She's accusing TPUSA insiders and other members of the right wing, including Seth Dillon, of being involved in the murder of Charlie Kirk. Yes.

Speaker 14 Okay.

Speaker 13 Like I said, I don't take in that content, which is an honest statement. I don't have time to watch that.

Speaker 16 I believe you. I believe you.
But the point that I'm making is that what I'm saying is that

Speaker 16 friendship should not, in our business, I think it's important.

Speaker 14 Listen, I'm out of here. And can we say that? Friendship should not trump.

Speaker 16 We don't even know each other.

Speaker 16 I understand, but even with Tucker, friendship should not trump our manifest requirement to speak out when people do and say things that are both detrimental to conservatism and morally wrong.

Speaker 13 Okay. So I don't totally disagree, but I think the way of handling that, at least for me, is much different.
So

Speaker 13 I saw things go south between you and Tucker, at least from my vantage point, when you disagreed on Israel. That was obvious.
And he was, well, let me just make my point.

Speaker 13 So he was saying things that were critical of Israel and our policy towards Israel.

Speaker 13 And then you did one show where you did what I thought you should have done if you disagreed with him, which clearly you did, which is say what you believe and what you think is factual and educate your audience on what you think are the real facts and give them the evidence for it.

Speaker 13 But you named him, and it felt like an attack. And that, to me, was the beginning of the end, where he was like, now it's on.

Speaker 13 Because he felt personally personally attacked by you as opposed to just challenging his idea. I think you named him and you kind of diminished him.
And, you know, he's an 800-pound gorilla.

Speaker 13 And if you mess with a gorilla, he's going to fight. And to me, that's where it started to go south.
And because I remember that day being like, oh, shit.

Speaker 13 Like, I don't want to see this.

Speaker 16 But here's the thing. I would urge everybody to go back and listen to the show that you're referring to, where I criticized Tucker's ideas, not Tucker as a person.
Tucker then responded by claiming.

Speaker 16 that I do not love America. That is a direct quote.
That I do not love America because I was spending too much time covering the October 7th attacks.

Speaker 16 And then proceeded in January to then say that I wanted his children to die in a foreign war.

Speaker 14 Okay, so those are a different... That's a rhetorical.

Speaker 14 No, it is not.

Speaker 16 I'm sorry, it's not. An attack on motivation is a very different thing from an attack on an idea.

Speaker 13 His point was that you were sounding like a neocon, and he's upset with anybody who wants us to get too involved in Israel's conflict because he feels it endangers American children.

Speaker 16 Okay, the idea that, number one, the idea that I want the United States to to be directly involved in Israel's conflict is not true.

Speaker 13 No, I know that, Ben.

Speaker 16 I've been urging Israel to get off of American aid for literally as long as I have been active in politics. But I'm making clear what his point was.

Speaker 16 No, no, no, but my point is that that's not his point. And again, none of this is a problem.
So we disagree. Well, no,

Speaker 16 we disagree on the interpretation of what Tucker has been doing for the past two years. And it's very difficult for me to believe.

Speaker 16 that Tucker is merely anti-Israel when, for example, today, in his newsletter, I mean, I can directly quote it if you'd like, in his newsletter today, he claimed that Zoran Mamdani is not anti-Semitic.

Speaker 19 This is his newsletter today, this morning.

Speaker 16 I mean, I'm happy to read the text.

Speaker 16 It's a little extraordinary because, again, it is kind of shocking stuff. So, here's what Tucker Carlson wrote in his newsletter today, or what his newsletter says under his name.

Speaker 16 He said, is the incoming mayor a fan of Israel? Does he want America to fight its wars? Not particularly. But a Jew hater? That's a different conversation.

Speaker 16 We've never seen anything to suggest he falls into that ugly ugly camp.

Speaker 16 If we're talking about fighting the left, defending Zahrim Ahmadani, who literally said that Hamas, he has no opinion on whether Hamas should disarm, who posed alongside the 1993 World Trade Center unindicted co-conspirator, who would not disarm globalize the Intifada, who suggested that whenever there is a New York Police Department boot on somebody's neck, it's an IDF lacing the strings, to suggest that that's not anti-Semitic in any way, no way.

Speaker 16 Okay, but let's see.

Speaker 14 Or when he...

Speaker 13 I'm going to give you a defense of Tucker here. And I don't need to defend Tucker because I'm not Tucker.

Speaker 13 Tucker, Tucker, but I'll just say, I think in general, because I know him and I listen to him, and I understand generally where he's coming from.

Speaker 13 He would say his problems are with Israel. And he would say that that shot that Momdani laid against the IDF is a shot against the IDF and Israel and how he thinks they're a pro-war, not against Jews.

Speaker 13 And I think

Speaker 16 that he finds himself in complete alignment with Zorin Mamdani, it is very difficult for me to believe that he does not agree with Zorin Mamdani.

Speaker 13 Is in a place right now of the same place that Charlie was getting to toward the end of his life, the same place that some people had tried to drive me, which is you're under withering non-stop accusations of being something you know you're not.

Speaker 13 But from some people who you love and who you've been protecting, at least in my case and Charlie's case, for two years, who you've been completely defensive of.

Speaker 13 And Charlie and I both felt, and I, because we talked about this on my show, like, what's happening here?

Speaker 13 Why are we dropping charges of anti-Semitism against us when we love Jews and we're both open Semites?

Speaker 16 We're Zionists.

Speaker 16 Megan, you may notice, I'm just talking about me here. Are there people who are overzealous? Sure.

Speaker 14 Have I ever attacked you? No, no, never.

Speaker 16 Did I ever attack Charlie publicly about any of this?

Speaker 14 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 16 He and I had disagreements behind the scenes. Did I ever detect you?

Speaker 14 You get defensive. And I feel like

Speaker 16 by the way, I waited to attack Tucker until he glossed Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 16 That has nothing to do with Israel. Nick Fuentes hates Jews.

Speaker 14 I'm not saying

Speaker 13 you didn't have a right to go after him. I mean, I think

Speaker 13 you did what you thought was right, and you felt, and he mentioned you a few times in his interview with Nick Fontes.

Speaker 16 He did, but again, I don't think it's about that. Because if he had not mentioned me in that interview with Nick Fontes, I still would have said something about it.

Speaker 16 Because, again, glossing people who are white supremacists is bad electorally on a pragmatic level.

Speaker 16 A right wing that embraces its own fringes will end up in the same position as a left wing that's embracing its own.

Speaker 14 But that's why

Speaker 14 we want to get into it.

Speaker 13 Embraces.

Speaker 13 Yes. So now having spoken to Tucker, I actually see that interview very differently.
And I did listen to the interview, and I knew what Nick Fontes was.

Speaker 13 And I think he did show himself to be who he is. It wasn't his most vile stuff, but you got the feel for what this guy was.

Speaker 13 But I really think Tucker was talking to him, Ben, to put like a bumper on this guy.

Speaker 13 Because what Tucker was urging him the whole time was to understand that collective punishment for any one group of people is wrong.

Speaker 13 It's deeply immoral and it's anti-Christian, which this guy is supposed to be. And reminding him of how deeply immoral that is, that you should not be looking at a group of people, whomever it is.

Speaker 13 The left does it to

Speaker 13 everyone,

Speaker 13 whites mostly, but like this collective shame, white men in particular.

Speaker 13 And there's a group of people like Nick Fuentes that does it to groups of Jews. And he was making the case throughout the whole interview in the way that Tucker does.
He's not like you or me.

Speaker 13 He's not like pointed and cross-examining.

Speaker 16 Not true.

Speaker 13 And was making it.

Speaker 16 That's fundamentally untrue.

Speaker 16 Senator Ted Cruz, whether that is true.

Speaker 13 He gave it to Ted Cruz because Ted Cruz is a politician.

Speaker 16 That's, oh, oh, hold on, hold on. So only politicians get cross-examined?

Speaker 13 You don't. Well, look, it depends on the person.

Speaker 16 Tucker would never cross-examine a person who is not a politician.

Speaker 14 That's his role?

Speaker 13 Tucker has excoriated public figures who purport to speak for us and represent us for many years. Nick Fuentes is a podcaster civilian.

Speaker 16 Okay, I just have a question. We all in our industry are constantly excoriating people who are in our industry.
It happens all the time, every single day.

Speaker 13 Okay. Okay, again,

Speaker 16 again, we can agree to disagree on your your interpretation of what Tucker was doing there.

Speaker 16 I think everybody should watch and determine for themselves what they think Tucker was doing in that interview.

Speaker 16 And I urge you to watch it back to back with the Ted Cruz interview to determine whether you think that that was an aggressive Tucker Carlson interview.

Speaker 14 And you can judge by yourself. I didn't say it was aggressive.

Speaker 13 I didn't say it was aggressive, and I don't think he would say it was aggressive.

Speaker 13 And his point was, this guy, first of all, he's become a behemoth, sadly. He's got 5 million viewers on Rumble.
He's got a million followers on X. I agree.
This is all before Tucker Carlson.

Speaker 13 And he was platformed, I hate that verb, but but he was platformed by Patrick Beck David. And he went on Dave Smith's show, and he went on another big show.

Speaker 13 He's been getting more and more purchase in the political ecosphere, including right-wing.

Speaker 16 And I think that's.

Speaker 13 Patrick Beck David has a huge show. I know, but

Speaker 14 did you know that Patrick Beck David had him on? Did his life blow up?

Speaker 16 Patrick Beck David did a significantly more aggressive interview with Nick Fuentes than Tucker did.

Speaker 13 Okay, but my point is simply, he's growing. He's growing in stature.
And so what I saw Tucker do was not whitewash his ideas, but try to put bumpers up on the guy.

Speaker 13 I I know Tucker well, and I think that was his approach. And the way, the way, if you want to put a bumper up on Nick Fuentes, is it helpful to say, you're fucking vile, you're an anti-Semite.

Speaker 13 No, it isn't. Yes, it is.
That doesn't put a... Yes, it is.
No, it isn't. That makes the audience feel good because you have hand-to-hand combat, but it doesn't help change that guy's view or

Speaker 13 his extremeness at all.

Speaker 16 Okay, I'll tell you what doesn't change Nick Fuentes' view.

Speaker 16 Tucker Carlson with his arm around Nick Fuentes grinning for the camera while Nick Fuentes tweets out America first and then triumphantly goes on the air the next day to explain that he has essentially used Tucker Carlson as a vehicle for manipulating other people.

Speaker 16 Okay, that's what Nick Fuentes is saying. Not me, Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 16 Okay, and Nick Fuente, and by the way, I will again say that Tucker Carlson, when you say to somebody in an interview, do you condemn anti-Semitism?

Speaker 16 And then the person says, sure, which is what Nick Fuentes said. He said, I'm not an anti-Semitic, which is blatantly untrue.

Speaker 16 A responsible journalist would then follow up demonstrating that that is false. Tucker did not do that.

Speaker 16 He allowed him to get away with that, and then he allowed him to talk about, quote-unquote, organized a jury, followed by Nick Fuentes being treated to a disquisition by Tucker Carlson about why Christian Zionists, of all human beings on earth, are the people that he hates the most.

Speaker 14 He took that back.

Speaker 16 You can't take that back.

Speaker 14 How do you take that back?

Speaker 13 He did. How? Because he went, he said,

Speaker 14 then he should explain why it was wrong.

Speaker 16 He should explain why Christian Zionists are actually wonderful people.

Speaker 13 Tucker is very quick to self-flagellate, and he went on with Dave Smith the next day, the next week, whatever, Monday, Tuesday, this week, and said, that was stupid. I didn't mean that.

Speaker 13 He said, I'm angry at people like Lindsey Graham.

Speaker 13 I'm angry at people like Ted Cruz because he thinks they run headfirst in these conflicts and they don't think about what's going to happen to America.

Speaker 14 Wait, hold up.

Speaker 16 If we're talking about firing inside the tent, what everything Lindsey Graham, okay, and I'm not a huge Lindsey Graham fan. He votes with the President of the United States 100% of the time.

Speaker 16 And Tucker spent yesterday's show excoriating him as a psychosexual death worshipper. Does that sound like firing outside the tent?

Speaker 14 Again, these are the things that I gotta say I'm not offended.

Speaker 16 Again, the questions that I'm asking here, I'm not asking you to do anything, Megan.

Speaker 13 No, I know. I know, I'm not.
Our peak is not with each other. I'm not.

Speaker 16 Okay? When I draw a line with regard to what I believe Tucker Carlson is doing to the conservative movement and what he is fomenting, that is because that is my info.

Speaker 16 And everyone can make their own decision as to whether they think that I am right or whether I am wrong and where they choose to draw the line with regard to the conservative movement.

Speaker 16 The question for me is always whether somebody's statements are forwarding moral values that I think are worthwhile. I did not get into this business for the money or for the clicks.

Speaker 16 You didn't either. Neither did he.
Was that? Neither did he. I mean, he may not have.
That's fine. I certainly did not.
I'm only going to speak for myself.

Speaker 16 And what that means for me is that if I see somebody breach basic moral values by having on a Nazi, and in my own view, you can take your own view, in my own view, gloss the Nazi.

Speaker 16 Then I'm going to speak out about that, and I'm going to point out that there is a long pattern of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of the last two years, ranging from traveling to Russia to sniff the bread and explain why the Russian regime is actually wonderful, to saying last week that the Venezuelan regime of Nicolas Maduro

Speaker 16 is actually not that bad because they're being attacked by, in his words, Globo Homo.

Speaker 13 Tucker's made the point, I'm not going to hear to be Tucker's defender, but he's made the point that Maduro is culturally conservative.

Speaker 16 Who gives a shit? The guy's a communist dictator. Everyone in his country is eating dog.

Speaker 16 He's shipping fentanyl to the United States to kill Americans.

Speaker 14 I don't give a shit

Speaker 16 whether he's anti-LGBTQ rights. This is the number one thing about Nicolas Maduro.

Speaker 16 You know how far down the list you have to get before you can get to anything remotely recommendable about Nicolas Maduro?

Speaker 13 I did ask him yesterday about the criticism that he didn't give Nick Fuentes a hard time, right? He didn't bring up. the stuff that we're going to be talking about.
No, he didn't.

Speaker 13 And here's what he said.

Speaker 13 They seem to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms.

Speaker 13 So, what do you say to those people? Say,

Speaker 13 why don't you raise any of that?

Speaker 17 You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor.
Buzz off. I mean, I don't know.
You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? I'll give you a sell. Call him.

Speaker 17 And go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you.

Speaker 14 I agree with him.

Speaker 16 No, I agree with him. I agree with him.
He did the interview that he wanted to do for a reason.

Speaker 13 Well, who has it worse?

Speaker 13 The Katie Porter staff or the Megan Markle staff?

Speaker 13 Who would you rather work for?

Speaker 14 Katie? Right?

Speaker 13 Or Megan, because at least you could spy on them and see their weird little life.

Speaker 14 Do we have to go to? We definitely have to. There's only one Megan I can actually still be civil to, and it's the one sitting to my left.

Speaker 14 The other one.

Speaker 13 She's getting back into acting, Piers. I'm sure you saw that.
She's shooting a movie now.

Speaker 14 She's playing herself in a movie.

Speaker 13 Yeah,

Speaker 13 which is, I guess, acting.

Speaker 14 Yeah, look.

Speaker 14 I'm actually genuinely curious. Are there any fans of Meghan Markle in tonight? No.

Speaker 14 Oh, hang on.

Speaker 14 There is one.

Speaker 14 One lone hand has raised the sound. Subversive!

Speaker 14 Actually,

Speaker 14 that is one more than I expected, I have to be be honest.

Speaker 13 Do you think she's going to make it in the end?

Speaker 14 And remember, I used to do a show called Good Morning Britain in Britain. And I loved that show.

Speaker 13 That was a great show.

Speaker 14 And in five years, we trebled the ratings. It was on fire.
Everyone loved it. And then came the Oprah Winfrey Winathon, as I call it.

Speaker 13 You and I were on together the morning after that.

Speaker 14 Remember that?

Speaker 18 I had no show.

Speaker 13 I was sitting in my living room. We took that thing down.

Speaker 14 Well, because there were certain things she said in that, and half-whit Harry, her husband.

Speaker 14 And one of the things they said was that the Archbishop of Canterbury had secretly married them in their back garden three days before the wedding on TV.

Speaker 14 So we did a quick check, because I thought, that can't be right. And we did a quick check.

Speaker 14 It turns out that had the Archbishop of Canterbury secretly married them in their garden, he would have broken the law and been sent to prison.

Speaker 14 So I thought, yeah, old Princess Pinocchio is off on a good one here.

Speaker 14 And then the rest of it was, and all the racism claims turned out to be bullshit. The mental health claims were bullshit.

Speaker 17 All of it was bullshit.

Speaker 14 Designed to damage and attack the royal family, the monarchy, and all of it. And it made me puke.

Speaker 13 Let's not forget the Oprah performance. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 14 What?

Speaker 14 They did.

Speaker 14 What? These people? What?

Speaker 13 How dark your baby was?

Speaker 14 It was ridiculous.

Speaker 14 And you know who they were talking about, by the way, because they accidentally put the names of the alleged racists in a, I think it was a Danish copy of the book by Omid Scoby, this little rat bag, little rat bag who writes books supporting them.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 the two members of the royal family who apparently expressed concern about the skin colour of their unborn child were King Charles, Prince Charles at the time, and Catherine, William's wife.

Speaker 14 Now, how likely do you think it is that either of those two people expressed negative concern about the skin colour of an unborn child.

Speaker 14 Absolutely big fat zero.

Speaker 14 And yet that was what they told the world in that interview. That's why I thought it was so disgusting.
And all right, in the end I was told

Speaker 14 57,000 people complained to the television regulator Ofcom in the UK. A world record, I'm proud to say, complained about me.
for not believing Princess Pinocchio.

Speaker 14 So I was then told told by my bosses: look, by the way, rule one here:

Speaker 14 never apologise, never clarify, never do anything.

Speaker 13 I can clarify that.

Speaker 14 We know this. So we did a clarification the next day, and it made no difference.
The complaints kept coming in.

Speaker 14 And eventually, my bosses said, Can you just apologise to Meghan Markle, or you're going to have to, you know, maybe lose your job? I went, I'll take the job option. Thanks, I'll leave.

Speaker 14 And I walked off into the sunset.

Speaker 14 Because

Speaker 14 two things about the about the woke mob, and she's the high priestess of Wokery and her husband's the high priest half-wit of Wokerie.

Speaker 14 And the truth about it is never bow to the mob, never grovel, never apologise, never give them an inch.

Speaker 14 And when you have something, it's a point of principle, stand up for yourself and walk the fuck out. Yes, yes.

Speaker 14 Amen. Preach.

Speaker 13 I know you've lived it, I've watched it.

Speaker 13 She's a bully, and her acting career, whatever she's trying to do, is going to fail, just like everything else she touched failed.

Speaker 14 Didn't you think the Dodgers video clip from the

Speaker 14 living room

Speaker 14 with her waltzing around?

Speaker 14 Like a hyena. Literally like a hyena with a spear in its back, wasn't it?

Speaker 14 And Harry's face. The half-wit sat there like he was doped out of his brains, which he probably was.

Speaker 14 And the whole thing was so cringe, wasn't it? It was awful. Terrible.

Speaker 13 I really want there to be a season three, though, of With Love Meghan. Don't you want to see another? Do you want to see another Maureen Callahan parody? We got to do it.
We did a little parody of it.

Speaker 14 Ours was fuck off, Megan.

Speaker 13 And I think I can channel her better than she can channel her.

Speaker 14 I think I'm a much more likable version of her.

Speaker 13 As I said in the parody,

Speaker 13 as she's encouraging people to drink more, people tend to like me better when they're intoxicated. And I think that's really been her experience.

Speaker 13 So I don't think the acting career is going to do it, but the name of the movie is Close Personal Friends. And I thought, how ironic Piers, because she has none of those.

Speaker 14 None.

Speaker 13 Right?

Speaker 13 I mean, like, you see that, like, the parade of people who go through her little TV show, and it's all like, oh, this is the person who my closest and dearest friends, and they're sitting there, and she's like, oh, do you have children?

Speaker 13 Your best friend.

Speaker 14 What was your name again?

Speaker 14 It's amazing.

Speaker 13 You mentioned British television, how poorly you were treated, and it was disgusting.

Speaker 13 And the UK is even wokier than we are, and they're very annoying, and they're way more Muslim than we are, radical Muslim, and way more pro-immigrant. It's bad.
It's bad.

Speaker 13 You guys are a canary in the coal mine in a lot of ways for us. But we saw something happen on the BBC this week that made national headlines, international headlines, and it was absurd.

Speaker 13 So, this woman, this presenter, as you say,

Speaker 13 was doing a report about

Speaker 13 various groups who might be affected by some medical policy, and the list included,

Speaker 13 should have included, pregnant women, but instead, this happened. We have the soundbite.
Let's watch it.

Speaker 21 London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has released research which says that nearly 600 heat-related deaths are expected in the UK.

Speaker 21 Malcolm Mystery, who is involved in the research, says that the aged pregnant people, women, and those with pre-existing health conditions need to take precautions.

Speaker 13 Would you believe for that

Speaker 13 they're trying to give her the Piers Morgan treatment?

Speaker 14 They just upheld 20 complaints against her. Imagine who those 20 people are, right?

Speaker 14 Just imagine, stuck in their dungeon at home, right, in their joyless woke dungeon, and decided to complain about a woman presenter being forced to read the words pregnant people.

Speaker 14 Well, how many times have you seen a pregnant man?

Speaker 13 Right.

Speaker 14 In your life, how many times do you think you'll see a pregnant man in the rest of your life? Here's a spoiler alert. You won't.
There aren't any pregnant men.

Speaker 14 It is bullshit.

Speaker 13 It's so mad.

Speaker 14 You know the irony, Megan. The irony, I tell that story in my book, Woke is Dead, about that incident.

Speaker 14 And I say, wasn't it great that the BBC didn't bow to the mob and actually didn't take any action against her? As my book is published in America now,

Speaker 14 they come back and they punish her. I mean, you literally couldn't make it up.

Speaker 13 Yes, no. I mean, is she going to lose her job over this?

Speaker 14 I don't think so, but it's just, I wish every female presenter at the BBC stood up and walked out until they withdrew the ruling against her. Yeah.

Speaker 14 Because no woman should have to be made to read out the words pregnant people.

Speaker 14 And it's actually about the

Speaker 14 complete disintegration of

Speaker 14 gendered language that benefits women.

Speaker 13 You know, we talked about the truth. It's about the disintegration of women.

Speaker 14 And mothers became birthing people. I mean, what does it mean?

Speaker 14 Nothing.

Speaker 13 Nor is chest feeding a thing. That's also a lie.

Speaker 14 Chest feeding.

Speaker 14 Chest feeding!

Speaker 14 What the fuck is that?

Speaker 13 It's also known as child abuse.

Speaker 13 This poor woman, her sin in that video was not just that she corrected the term pregnant people, but then they said she made a face.

Speaker 13 She made a face that expressed personal opinion. Meanwhile, people are all over the BBC expressing opinions, especially on race,

Speaker 13 when they watch sporting events and so on.

Speaker 13 There's never any discipline. It's only on something.

Speaker 14 It's not a democracy. It's a really bad misstep by the BBC.
I actually like the BBC, a lot of great stuff. Honestly, but they've grown very woke.

Speaker 14 And this is an example of why, although I say woke is dead, it's an aspiration. It still pokes his head up, and you've got to rebel it.

Speaker 14 The reason I think it's dead, the story recently of Graham Linehan, the comedian, Irish comedian. Came on our show.

Speaker 14 Pretty fearless guy. He winds people up with the way he says stuff.
Fair enough. He can be very abrasive.

Speaker 14 But he's fought a pretty lonely battle on behalf of women's rights against the trans activists. And it's cost him everything.
Cost him his marriage, his home, his job, his livelihood.

Speaker 14 He was the creator of Father Ted, one of the great comedies. And

Speaker 14 we should give him a round of applause, actually. Yeah, go, Graham.

Speaker 14 You know, not all heroes wear capes, right? They can come in all in all guises. And he's an unlikely hero, but he became one for me because the other day he comes into Heathrow Airport.

Speaker 14 It's the first time he's been back to the UK since he put two jokes on X, on his X account, in April. And one joke was, to summarise it, was a bit of a lame gag, but is it really that terrible?

Speaker 14 He talked about a trans

Speaker 14 woman coming into a woman's changing room, and he said, what the best thing to do is kick them in the balls. Now, look.

Speaker 14 Some will find that funny. Some will think it's a bit over the top.
All right. You know, if you go to any comedy club in the world, you'll hear jokes like that every 10 seconds.
That was the joke.

Speaker 14 It sat there on his exit account. People either laughed or didn't laugh as we've done tonight.

Speaker 14 But when he came into Heath Robe three, four weeks ago, five armed police officers were waiting to arrest him and take him to the cells. for his joke.
Five armed police.

Speaker 14 And in that moment, I realized my country, which was, you know, Winston Churchill, fought World War II with the help of the Americans, before you all remind me. And thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 13 We're pretty proud of that.

Speaker 14 Thank you.

Speaker 14 No, genuinely thank you. It was a great team effort.
We repelled them together. It was great.

Speaker 14 But, you know, that war was fought to save us from the Nazis, who would have killed free speech in a second. What are we doing in the United Kingdom?

Speaker 14 And several hundred people have been arrested for tweets and social media posts in the last last couple of years. It is completely ridiculous.

Speaker 14 You cannot have a free democratic society if you don't aggressively defend freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It is the cornerstone of a democracy.

Speaker 13 Obviously, we love our First Amendment, and I know you and many other Brits are jealous of it. I mean, the First Amendment is being eroded day by day, even here, but at least we have it.

Speaker 13 It's a very important principle of how we live the way we do.

Speaker 13 I think the woke mind virus is uniquely tied to a deep unhappiness. You know, you never meet a super happy woke person.
They're joyless. Right, utterly joyless.
And that brings me to fun.

Speaker 14 They never laugh at any jokes. Have you noticed? Yeah.

Speaker 14 Nothing is ever funny.

Speaker 14 No book is ever a good read. They're all toxic.
Every movie is toxic. Everything, clothing you wear at Halloween is toxic.

Speaker 13 And they are toxic.

Speaker 14 And they themselves are the toxic ones.

Speaker 13 They become toxic. So they're always deeply unhappy, which brings me, of course, to Michelle Obama.

Speaker 13 Again, to quote Stephen L. Miller, Red Steeves on X, I regret to inform you we've disappointed the Obamas again.

Speaker 13 She's been out there promoting her new fashion book. I know all you ladies look up to Michelle Obama as a fashion icon, do you not? Anna Wintor told us she is.

Speaker 14 Hello. She was on the cover of Vogue four times.

Speaker 13 Melania Trump, zero. Okay.
Not as first lady, anyway, when she was an actual supermodel and Mary Trump, they gave her one.

Speaker 13 In any event, so Michelle Obama has been doing a book tour to promote her fashion book. And the latest, she's been making all sorts of news for the wrong reasons.

Speaker 13 And the latest bit that she offered was how tough it was to be First Lady because of the hair, makeup, and wardrobe team she had to deal with. Here's just a little sampling of what she's been saying.

Speaker 20 The job of First Lady is an interesting job, non-job.

Speaker 20 You know, it doesn't come with a real salary or a job description.

Speaker 20 No one technically elected the first spouse, I'll say.

Speaker 20 We've only had first ladies.

Speaker 20 You're supposed to be aspirational, but

Speaker 20 representational, reachable, approachable.

Speaker 20 You're supposed to be feminine, but not too sexy. Barack wears the same suit, changes his tie, buttons up.

Speaker 20 You know, his decision or a man's decision is: do I go with a striped shirt or a plain white shirt? Yes. Do I go with a red tie or blue tie?

Speaker 20 If the day is long and there are a lot of events, which was always a challenge for me with Barack, if we'd go from Air Force One to a hike to, you know, a fundraiser.

Speaker 20 What do I wear?

Speaker 14 Hold on.

Speaker 13 Stand by. There's another one.
Sot three. Stand by.

Speaker 20 I was accused of being angry.

Speaker 14 It was shocking to me.

Speaker 20 Well,

Speaker 20 I didn't really have that choice this firstly. Of course.

Speaker 20 Every day, every time I was up, as we called it, you know, I was up for the public. Yes.
And the days were long. So, as you mentioned, to save time,

Speaker 20 I know having a glam team, a trifecta, it feels like a luxury, but it was a time

Speaker 20 necessity.

Speaker 20 There's absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and makeup and have clothes ready that fit, you know, because

Speaker 13 rare is the woman that can live off the rack?

Speaker 14 Right?

Speaker 13 No one can live off the rack.

Speaker 13 I'm sorry, but you have you have to subject yourself to the burdens of a hair, makeup, and a lot of people.

Speaker 14 And by the way, how rich have they become since they left office? I mean, this is the deal, right?

Speaker 14 They serve their country on a not insignificant sum of money. I think it's about $400,000 a year, the president guess.
And they live in unparalleled luxury the entire time they're in office.

Speaker 14 And when they leave, they make hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars. Has anyone got a tiny violin for me? Yes.
I can start playing here.

Speaker 13 Yes. And my

Speaker 13 mom is not for nothing, but did you see that hideous outfit she was wearing?

Speaker 14 I'm sorry. That's what having too much money does for you

Speaker 13 i've just never met somebody so ungrateful in all my life and what did she start it off with people said i was hateful because you are she can't stand america she definitely can't stand barack and i don't think she likes herself very much either she's been doing this non-stop tour and i just think there's a strain there's she's woke he's woke there's a strain in the woke that leads you to be absolutely miserable which is why they too should be praying for woke woke to die.

Speaker 14 And it's why I know this audience is not woke, because you seem so happy. Yes.
Look at me, look. Totally happy.
Extremely happy people.

Speaker 14 Or it may be, having come from England recently where it was pouring with rain and freezing cold, as it is for about eight months of a year, it may just be because of the weather. Yeah, go Miami.

Speaker 14 The Florida weather.

Speaker 13 Enjoy it while you're here. I will.
Thank you, Piers Morgan. I love you so much.

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Speaker 1 Tackle the cost of living crisis or get the hell out of the way.

Speaker 2 I'm Tom Steyer.

Speaker 3 I wanted to build a business here.

Speaker 4 Now it's worth billions of dollars.

Speaker 6 And I walked away from it because I wanted to give back to California.

Speaker 7 We need to get back to basics.

Speaker 1 Homes you can afford, cut utility rates by 25%, and make California a top 10 education state again.

Speaker 10 Sacramento politicians are afraid to change up this system.

Speaker 11 I'm not.

Speaker 1 I'm Tom Steyer, and I'm running for governor.

Speaker 13 Ad paid for by Steyer for Governor 2026.

Speaker 13 Hey, everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news.
I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.

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Speaker 13 It's bold, no BS news only on the Megan Kelly channel, SiriusXM 111, and on the SiriusXM app.

Speaker 13 Kim Kardashian is in the news. Forgive me, I try not to

Speaker 13 ever say her name, but she's in the news because she came out on her the show with an admission that she has a brain aneurysm.

Speaker 13 And it's a sympathy ploy, like, oh my god, I have a brain aneurysm, you know, something's going to happen to me, and I'm so worried.

Speaker 13 Well, it turns out they taped this episode long before it actually hit air.

Speaker 13 And from the time she tried to get everybody worked up on her new victimhood status, because we know this is such a currency, she showed up in New York City for the launch of her Skims partnership with Nike.

Speaker 13 She went to that fashion show overseas where she had pantyhose all over her face. She's been on virtually every red carpet known to man.
She's been doing talk shows. She's been doing comedy shows.

Speaker 13 There's really no stopping her from her public appearances.

Speaker 13 And as it turns out, the brain aneurysm is like some teeny, tiny little vein thing that virtually everybody has, and it's really not a big deal. It just needs to be monitored from time to time.

Speaker 13 She just played it up because she, like so many of these celebrities, wants to lean into victimhood status. So your thoughts on whether we should be moved by Kim's story.

Speaker 18 I almost had a brain aneurysm watching when she was selling the Merkins last week. When she was selling those fake Bush panties, I'm like, oh, I'm too gay for that.

Speaker 18 I will say she did have like a red, curly one for little orphan Annie. I thought that was generous.
She had a red one for Lindsay Lohan. I thought that was nice.
But yeah, no, Kim Kardashian.

Speaker 13 I mean, I have to say, having grown up in the 70s, I don't remember it ever going that far.

Speaker 18 I said, Bush is back in office, honey, with that. Anheuser, Bush, Jenna Bush, Hager.
Okay, there was a lot of Bush going on. So no, I don't give a shit about Kim Kardashian.
I think, honestly,

Speaker 18 Kim Kardashian, you guys, she has built a career and made billions of dollars off of giving women body dysmorphia. When Kim came into the game, everybody had to get a big ass.

Speaker 18 So girls went out there and they put themselves in harmful situations to get big asses. They went to foreign countries, they got injections.
Now all the Kardashians are on Ozimpic.

Speaker 18 What are those girls supposed to do from around the way who went and got big asses?

Speaker 18 So yeah, yeah, they've just built this career off of giving women body dysmorphia and then went the fake bush panties. So, you spend millions of dollars on laser hair removal to just drop a murder?

Speaker 18 That's a scam, right there. That's a scam.

Speaker 13 And a scandal, really.

Speaker 18 It's true. Now she's got sheets over her head, like freaking Islam or something.
I don't know what's going on with her.

Speaker 13 Oh, it's all the rage in New York City.

Speaker 13 Let's talk about Michelle Obama.

Speaker 13 Michelle Obama

Speaker 13 just,

Speaker 13 I know you're all watching her podcast.

Speaker 13 You're the ones.

Speaker 13 Michelle Obama wants you to feel very sorry for her because it's very hard being Michelle Obama. Everybody wants a piece of Michelle.
It's very hard to be so famous. Michael.

Speaker 14 Big Mike.

Speaker 13 That's what they're saying.

Speaker 18 I will say she might have more testosterone than me, that bitch, honestly.

Speaker 18 Honestly, she might be packing more than me, that whore.

Speaker 13 Okay, so she's upset because it's hard to be so famous. And she's upset because it was very expensive to live in the White House.

Speaker 13 They had to pay for their own food. Who has to pay for their own food?

Speaker 14 What kind of world is this?

Speaker 13 And just as soon as you start working up your sympathy glands for Michelle Obama, you see her just recently out on Steven Spielberg's yacht cruising around the Mediterranean while she literally wants you to feel sorry for her.

Speaker 13 So do you?

Speaker 18 No, do I feel sorry for Michelle Obama?

Speaker 14 Hell no.

Speaker 18 I have this place where I send women I call the unbearables, the insufferables. I send them in my mind to a place called Bitch Island.

Speaker 18 Okay, I want to send Michelle Obama to Bitch Island, Megan Markle, Kathy Griffin. That's where I send them in my mind.
The women of the view, they could be

Speaker 18 Rosie, they could host the show on Bitch Island. But Michelle Obama, right? She comes from humble beginnings.

Speaker 18 And it's always the people who say they came from humble beginnings that forget so quickly. Like she says she grew up on the south side of Chicago.
She's a round-the-way girl.

Speaker 18 She's Michelle from the block. She's Michelle from the block.
But then she's like, can you believe I had to pay for my own caviar in the White House? And I'm like, what? People are starving.

Speaker 18 We have an invasion at the border. I can't even take her seriously, Michelle Obama.
But it's always this victim card.

Speaker 18 And I think on the left, these Democratic elites have realized playing the victim card is profitable. It gets you views.
It gets people tuning in, but we're just all tired of it. We're so tired of it.

Speaker 13 Is Katie Porter on Bitch Island?

Speaker 18 No, I am Katie Porter's number one fan now. I need her to do more interviews with the Helga Oktoberfest haircut.

Speaker 14 I need Katie Porter.

Speaker 18 I'm not in a position to opine on hair. I get it.
But listen, Katie Porter, that woman, she looks like those women in the circus who could like lift 500 pounds, Katie Porter.

Speaker 14 He's not wrong. Right.

Speaker 18 So I need Katie Porter out there more.

Speaker 13 I'm really into her.

Speaker 13 The more interviews, the better with Katie Porter, right?

Speaker 18 100%. Keep her talking like Kamala Harris.
Keep her on the road every time she opens her mouth. It's a gift.
It's a gift to us.

Speaker 13 She might. We have news about that.
We'll talk about it in a minute with Mark Calburn on Common Lee or Standby. So, yeah, I love Katie Porter because I, like,

Speaker 13 the funny thing for me in watching all those clips is I understood her anger. Like, when the staffer got in the back of the shot, you know, like, get out of the fucking shot.

Speaker 13 The person was in the shot. I would have been like, get Abby, get out of there.

Speaker 13 But I would have said it lovingly, you know, harshly but lovingly. There's a way.
You shouldn't swear at your employees. It's a bad habit.

Speaker 14 On camera. Yeah.

Speaker 13 But now the ex-husband's coming out on camera. That's always bad.
The ex-husband's now coming out saying she was a master manipulator.

Speaker 13 And now I'm like, all right, well, this is getting a little really interesting, but also untoward because should we really be taking the ex-husband's word?

Speaker 13 I do, but should we be?

Speaker 18 Oh, God, I don't have any ex-husbands in the audience tonight, do I?

Speaker 14 No.

Speaker 18 I don't know if we should take his word. I heard that she poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on his head, and that's when I knew I loved her.

Speaker 14 When she poured a

Speaker 18 scalding cauldron of potatoes on her husband's head, I said, oh, this woman's interesting. Allegedly.
Allegedly.

Speaker 13 Kamala Harris, I hear you've been enjoying her book tour.

Speaker 18 Is it just me, or is Kamala Harris's book tour going longer than the campaign? Like, it's going longer and longer and longer. And I have these nicknames for Kamala.
I I call her Cabernet Kamala.

Speaker 18 I call her Kamalamity. I think the sequel...

Speaker 18 Yeah, I think the sequel to 107 Days should be 12 steps, maybe.

Speaker 18 I think Bill W. could be the co-author.

Speaker 14 And if that offended you, call the sponsor.

Speaker 14 You can do the forward.

Speaker 18 Yeah, you can do the forward. But yeah, no, Kamala Harris, I hope this book tour continues.
I want her to run. And what's interesting,

Speaker 18 In this book, Kamala Harris talks about choosing her running mate. And she says, I did not choose Pete Buddhajudge because he was gay.

Speaker 18 And I thought, okay, you don't choose Pete Buddhajudge because he's gay, but then you choose Tim Walls, the gayest man in captivity, okay? Tim Walls, Tim Walls, Mr.

Speaker 18 Jazz Hands, he walks into every room like Bob Fosse, okay? Sorry to get heated. But Tim Walls, this man with a questionable internet search history.
Okay, I was speaking to a...

Speaker 18 I was speaking to a room of gays last week. I was speaking to a room of gay Republicans.

Speaker 14 Room of gays. Yeah.

Speaker 18 I said, who do you think has slept with more men? Everyone in this room combined or Tim Walls. Okay, there is something

Speaker 18 going on there. And they said, we chose Tim Walls because he's the pinnacle of masculinity.
I said, no, Michelle Obama is in your party.

Speaker 14 Not Tim Walls.

Speaker 13 He could use a few more testosterone. I mean, really, like, the thing with the camo hat was too much.
When he couldn't load the gun, I mean, you people down in Texas must have been horrified.

Speaker 13 We were down in Texas, Doug and I, about a couple years ago with a bunch of of friends, and we were going to go motorbike riding, like a dirt bike riding in the woods.

Speaker 13 It was like midnight, it was dark, going up to the woods. There were like 15 of us on these motorbikes, and it was summer, so everybody had on shorts and a t-shirt.

Speaker 13 And our host looked around and he says, Is anybody carrying? I'm like, Karen? We're wearing like tiny shirts and shirts. Literally, every man was like, I am, I am, I am, I am.

Speaker 13 Like, I'm in Texas. I'm not in New York anymore.

Speaker 18 Yeah, I think some of my.

Speaker 13 I never felt so safe in my life.

Speaker 18 If anyone tries to F with us tonight, we got some Texas Patriots in the audience.

Speaker 14 I think we're good.

Speaker 18 I think we're good.

Speaker 13 God bless Texas. Don't mess with it.
Although they are trying to mess with it. What's with Austin?

Speaker 14 Oh,

Speaker 14 yeah.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 13 I don't get it.

Speaker 18 I see my MAGA ladies on the front row right here.

Speaker 14 I got my Trump lady.

Speaker 18 Now, who did you vote for in the Trump pass?

Speaker 13 I love it.

Speaker 13 I mean, we did get Jasmine Crockett.

Speaker 14 Oh,

Speaker 18 y'all heard of this woman, Jasmine Crockett?

Speaker 13 Okay.

Speaker 18 Jasmine Crockett, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point. I mean, she's become one of the most uncouth and articulate women in politics, and it's all a caricature.

Speaker 18 It's all a facade with Jasmine Crockett. When you look up her background, right? She grew up in St.
Louis. She went to private school.
She says she passed the bar exam.

Speaker 18 I don't know if she was sitting at a bar or if she actually passed the bar exam, which I would like to see proof. Yeah.

Speaker 18 She says she's an attorney Jasmine Crockett you pull up these old videos of her she's talking like Eliza Doolittle or Queen Elizabeth she's like how do you do would you like crumpets and scones you look up Jasmine Crockett now she's like this mouth crocker like a chicken book a picka book

Speaker 18 What the hell happened to Jasmine Crockett? This is identity theft, okay?

Speaker 13 Identity theft.

Speaker 18 But the Democrats, okay, this is why I can't stand the Democrats. We got some characters on the right.
We love Trump. We've got big personalities.

Speaker 18 But the Democrats are a bunch of overgrown theater kids. They don't want to work.
They want to twerk and post dancing videos and sing.

Speaker 18 And the Democrats in D.C., okay, they're always breaking into song on the Capitol steps. Yes.
They're running and dancing. They remind me of that show Glee.

Speaker 18 Remember that show Glee where they're running and singing and dancing and there's no plot? That is the Democrat Party.

Speaker 13 The Rapid Response Choir.

Speaker 13 Nothing terrifies Trump more than the Rapid Response Choir.

Speaker 18 No, and you've got all these beta males like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Corey Booker, just beta male, beta male, beta male.

Speaker 13 Oh, speaking of Corey Booker, what did the gays say about Corey Booker?

Speaker 18 Well, my lawyer has told me not to opine on that tonight.

Speaker 18 He was knocking on my dressing room doors.

Speaker 13 Remember those engagement photos the hit of him and his fiancé?

Speaker 14 We're joyful.

Speaker 13 We're definitely really in love.

Speaker 18 I was gonna say they look like Michelle and Barack's engagement photos, so maybe it's true love.

Speaker 13 Unclear. All right, so

Speaker 13 I did read

Speaker 13 in my avid following of Spot On that you are really happy for George Clooney, who has found Italy just too tough an environment in which to raise his children.

Speaker 13 At Lake Como is really unfortunate, I guess, and now has moved to France because he wants his kids to grow up in a place that's not obsessed with celebrity culture.

Speaker 18 Absolutely, Megan. And I know this will resonate with a lot of folks in the audience tonight, people in Texas, Arizona, Florida, they talk about this all the time.

Speaker 18 These liberals in states like California, they vote for every Democratic candidate. They shill for Gavin Newsome, Kamala Harris.

Speaker 18 The second those policies come home to roost and they've got homelessness and crime running amok on the streets, they flee.

Speaker 18 They move to red states and then they bring their policies to the red states. You're fleeing these blue states to come to red states and you're bringing the same policies.
We've had it.

Speaker 18 Okay, we've had it. Yeah.
And that's with George Plooney as well.

Speaker 13 Completely agree. He's such a charlatan.
He's dying to be a journalist. He's not a journalist.
He's got a lot of thoughts about journalism. He of the left.

Speaker 13 He wants to be hailed as a hero because he wrote that one op-ed telling Joe Biden to drop out. After the debate, when we all knew he was totally infirm, he's like, aha, I have a big reveal for you.

Speaker 13 We're like, we already saw the end of this movie.

Speaker 18 No, Megan, these Democrats got kudos and bona fides for saying, you know, Joe Biden might be in decline. And this is like fall of 2024.
The Mars rover could see that Joe Biden was in decline. Okay.

Speaker 18 Like, these Democrats are writing op-eds. Y'all are so brave.
Oh, you're just so brave calling out Joe Biden. I'm like, like, the guy is non-compass mintis.
He's walking off into bushes.

Speaker 18 We can see with our own eyes what's happening.

Speaker 13 Yes, we did not need George Clooney's op-ed.

Speaker 14 Now,

Speaker 13 the one person I think it would be the worst, I mean, like, I would work for Katie Porter before I'd work for this person,

Speaker 13 has to be Megan Markle.

Speaker 13 She literally just lost her 10th head of publicity in I think it's three years since she opened her little as-ever business or whatever she's calling it these days. She cannot keep a staff.

Speaker 13 All of the people writing bios on her talk about what a nightmare she is, how nasty she is. She's smart enough not to get caught on camera.

Speaker 14 Get out of there, you fucking bitch.

Speaker 13 She's smart enough not to do that like Katie Porter.

Speaker 13 But she's apparently even meaner than her because she cannot keep anyone in her employ.

Speaker 13 And she continues to try to mislead us into believing she's got this Netflix series deal, even though season two was a fake.

Speaker 13 It was just an extension of season one that she tried to spin as a second season.

Speaker 13 And now she's trying to spin what's been changed into like, and we want a third season into, we'll take a first look as though, as though that's a like a victory, like a promotion.

Speaker 13 No, first look is like,

Speaker 13 you can tell them that we made you a first look deal.

Speaker 18 No, Megan Markle, these two little hucksters over in Montecito, I cannot stand them, okay? I call her the Duchess of Scam a lot, the Duchess of White Castle. And my thing with Megan Markle is this.

Speaker 18 She is still dining out on her Royal Highness title. She's been gone six years.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 18 She's still dining out to sell her jams, jellies, and dog biscuits, and whatever other crap she's selling. But my thing with Megan Markle is this.
I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 18 There are so many of us who are excited. This American girl is going to marry this ginger prince, the most eligible bachelor on earth.
She goes in there. She can't stand it for more than six months.

Speaker 18 They abscond to the U.S. And in the Queen's final dying days, what does she do? She goes and accuses them all of racism.
She shanks them. She stabs them in the back.

Speaker 18 And they welcomed her with open arms. So I will never respect Megan Markle for that.
That's not how you treat people who welcomed you with open arms. And gave you a life and a career.
Come on.

Speaker 13 She's not a good person. How long do we give that marriage?

Speaker 18 Oh, God, maybe 45 more minutes. We'll check after this.

Speaker 14 This is not going to be long.

Speaker 13 All right, so tell us a little bit about you, Link, because your political rise has been rapid. and really impressive.
And it was because the RFKJ campaign found you, right?

Speaker 13 It was your own talents that got you noticed. Well, thank you.

Speaker 18 And can I just say, I'm on stage with Megan Kelly right now.

Speaker 14 This is really cool.

Speaker 14 Sweet.

Speaker 18 I was on her show the first time one year ago this month, okay, and they passed on me. Megan might not even know this.
I had people reaching out. Hey, you guys should have link.

Speaker 18 I would send cold emails. I said, if we can meet, we will hit it off.
So be tenacious, people out there.

Speaker 18 Because now I'm on the tour.

Speaker 13 I did not know that.

Speaker 13 So I know that obviously you were Miss Arizona.

Speaker 14 Hello?

Speaker 13 Nicely done. Good.

Speaker 14 Very, very top selection.

Speaker 13 And that you were a businesswoman in New York when you first got interested in turning points. So, what were you doing in New York?

Speaker 20 So, to go back a little bit further, I mean, right now, first and foremost,

Speaker 20 I'm a daughter to the king, to the Most High. That's the most important

Speaker 20 title, if you will.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 my husband,

Speaker 20 in August, before all this happened, he had an event where he had some donors at.

Speaker 20 And one of the first questions they asked was:

Speaker 20 God forbid if something happens to you, like,

Speaker 20 what would happen next to Turning Point? And Charlie made a really interesting point. He said, companies, you know,

Speaker 20 example, Apple, Macintosh,

Speaker 20 He said they're founder-led.

Speaker 20 He said, but what I have built is,

Speaker 20 will one day, if I'm not around, be vision-led.

Speaker 20 And he had made mention at the end, like, you know, Erica will do a great job running it.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 20 when I watched that video this week, it really put into perspective

Speaker 20 my

Speaker 20 youth and what I went through growing up and what I witnessed, you know, my mom having her own company and being a single mother and watching her be the blueprint of,

Speaker 14 you know,

Speaker 20 I'm not afraid of raising my children alone because I saw my mom do that. I'm not afraid of being a CEO because I saw my mom do that.

Speaker 20 The only thing that I fear to be fully transparent with you is being out of the alignment of God's will because I feel like that is a very dangerous position to be in.

Speaker 20 And so for me, growing up,

Speaker 20 when I was in New York, it was one of those moments where I really trusted God. That's where I needed to be.
I prayed on it at first because originally I was living in LA.

Speaker 20 And I said, Lord, if this is where you need me to be, make it so clear. Bought a one-way ticket to New York.
One suitcase. My mom was like, what are you going to do when you're there?

Speaker 20 I was like, I'll figure it out once I get there. I just know that's where the Lord needs me.
And so many people questioned that. They said, You're such a strong Christian.

Speaker 20 Why would you go to such a dark city?

Speaker 20 And I said, The more that you take the light out of a dark place, the darker it gets. So that's where I'm going.
And I was there.

Speaker 13 And yeah, but when I moved to New York, my brother said, Why would you want to move to New York? And I said, It's the big city of dreams.

Speaker 13 And he said, Scary, nasty, wake up in the middle of the night screaming dreams.

Speaker 13 So I get it.

Speaker 13 But it, so you were working in New York for a while, and then you went went back to Arizona to apply for the Turning Point job?

Speaker 20 So

Speaker 20 I was in New York. I was casting director.
I was assigned with the modeling agency. I had just gotten my real estate license three months prior to meeting Charlie and

Speaker 20 rewind a little bit. I went to Turning Point's office opening for their first building.

Speaker 20 And Tyler was, he runs Turning Point Action now.

Speaker 20 And he said, you need to meet the CEO. I said, okay, great.
Met him very quickly, shook his hand, said, hi, nice to meet you. Neither of us thought anything of it.

Speaker 20 Looking back now, he apparently sat down with Tyler and said, we need to hire, or Tyler said, we need to hire her. And he goes, mm-hmm.
And he's like, where does she live? And Tyler said, New York.

Speaker 14 He's like, okay.

Speaker 20 I'm going to have a Fox News hit, and then I'm going to sit down with her and interview her in New York. So, lo and behold, he comes to Manhattan, and I thought I was so career-minded.

Speaker 20 My mother raised me

Speaker 20 to, and this is why I can relate a lot to

Speaker 20 the Manhattan mindset of a lot of young women where it's career-oriented.

Speaker 20 Because my mom used to tell me, don't feel like you need to rely on a man for

Speaker 20 life and work. And so, my mindset, my healthy marriage example was my grandparents.

Speaker 20 But my mindset was career, career, career.

Speaker 20 When I met Charlie, the only reason I sat down with him because I thought it was a consulting position for work. I was not thinking, I did not date in Manhattan.

Speaker 20 I saw the pits of hell of the dating pool through my roommates, and I was not touching that with any

Speaker 20 longest pole you can imagine. I stayed far away from the dating pool in Manhattan.

Speaker 20 So I viewed it as obviously the job interview that it was supposed to be. And

Speaker 20 the Lord knew. I just,

Speaker 20 Charlie, in some way, similar to how

Speaker 20 he sees things in a lot of people, in some way

Speaker 20 beautifully saved me from

Speaker 20 a huge mistake of putting career over family and career over husband because it's easy to do when as a female when you see Bright Lights Big City

Speaker 20 but

Speaker 20 he

Speaker 20 the Lord used him the Lord used him for how long did it take you to fall in love with him

Speaker 20 he that's the funny thing is it was

Speaker 20 it's so interesting because when we were sitting there, I fell in love with how

Speaker 20 brilliant he was to be able to articulate what he believed in.

Speaker 20 And when he said, I'm not going to hire you, I'm going to date you,

Speaker 20 I knew that was the Lord because there were so many times where I said,

Speaker 20 my future husband that's out there, he will literally, it will be

Speaker 20 the only reason why I look up is because the Lord says to look up and that was something to look up to when someone's like, I'm going to date you. And so I just, but honestly, it was the

Speaker 20 constant consistency of, I'm here for you,

Speaker 20 you know, the little texts in the morning. And then it just continued to grow in a beautiful way.
So yes, love at first sight, yes, obviously. But again, my mindset wasn't there.
His was.

Speaker 20 So you think of it, you're in an interview. You have to totally do a 180 of a mindset.

Speaker 20 But I honestly, where like the depths of the love started was when we were playing basketball together at the gym, just shooting around together.

Speaker 13 By the time we saw that video, where he introduced you as his fiancée, and the two of you were staring at each other.

Speaker 20 Oh, I was upset. I'm still obsessed.

Speaker 13 Now break your gaze. I mean, that's, I think, as the kids would say, hashtag goals for virtually everybody who wants love in their life.
So you did get married.

Speaker 20 Yes.

Speaker 13 You have two kids.

Speaker 20 Two precious babies.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 13 you told me this in private, but

Speaker 13 how many kids did you guys want to to have?

Speaker 20 We wanted to have four.

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 20 And I was praying to God that I was pregnant when he got murdered. Oh, wow.

Speaker 13 I thought of that once,

Speaker 13 just like whether it was meant to be or whether we'd

Speaker 13 get news like that.

Speaker 20 I was like, oh, goodness, that would be the ultimate blessing out of this catastrophe.

Speaker 20 So now when I see young couples, I tell them, please,

Speaker 14 like,

Speaker 20 don't put it off.

Speaker 20 Especially if you're a young woman, don't put it off. You can always have a career.
You can always, you know,

Speaker 20 go back to work. You can never just go back to having children.
And they grow so fast and so quickly. But I just,

Speaker 20 I was praying. Both of us were.
We were really excited to just expand our family. Thank God you have the two.
I know.

Speaker 13 Thank God. You know.

Speaker 14 You're a girl. I know.

Speaker 13 One day they'll find out. Right now they're just, you know, little loves, and one day they'll find out that they're Charlie Kirk's children and they'll know what that means.

Speaker 13 So I wanted to ask you, Erica, because you are so faithful. whether

Speaker 13 you had any premonition that something was going to happen to Charlie. Because I really do see you as connected, more so than the average, than the rest of us, to God.

Speaker 13 And I just wondered, did you have any sort of a feeling?

Speaker 20 We always, we, see, the thing is, is that I guess we just operate differently. We always knew there were threats.
We always knew that there were

Speaker 20 people out there that hated us with

Speaker 20 deep, deep passion of hate.

Speaker 20 But it didn't scare us.

Speaker 20 Never, he was never afraid of that. Neither was I.
Obviously, we protect our children, you know, we don't show their faces on the internet. So that's very intentional, but

Speaker 20 I think we lived our life in such a way where

Speaker 20 if that was our last day, it was our last day, like we always lived as if it was the last day. That's why Charlie's speeches were so good

Speaker 20 because he didn't know if that was going to be his last speech.

Speaker 20 And he was

Speaker 20 so intentional about every word.

Speaker 20 Every word had a meaning.

Speaker 20 And every speech had a connection point for the students and for whoever he was speaking to. And that's why he never missed the opportunity to weave the gospel into what he was saying.

Speaker 13 Yes, that's what made him so much more

Speaker 13 powerful than the rest of us.

Speaker 13 If you see the difference between Charlie Kirk and many of the right-wing pundits or commentators, it's that he supercharged the message that the rest of us were saying with biblical references, with faith-based wisdom, which made it ten times more powerful, and people knew it.

Speaker 13 You know, it's one of the things we're all missing right now.

Speaker 20 But to answer your question,

Speaker 20 you know,

Speaker 20 we always knew there were threats. We always knew that that could be a possibility,

Speaker 20 but obviously,

Speaker 20 you know, but we never lived in fear of when that day would be. We just just trusted the Lord every day.

Speaker 13 You know, now, of course, in the wake of Charlie's death, many are living under threat. I mean, the nutcases have gotten very loud and emboldened.

Speaker 13 And I just wonder whether it was the kind of threat

Speaker 13 environment that you needed to actually worry that something could happen. Or was it just the din of like, there are haters out there, you get these nutcase letters sometimes, you know?

Speaker 13 Was it something like, no, it's actually getting really serious and we need to worry, or was it just the din of like, mm-hmm?

Speaker 20 No, I mean, you would see obviously leading up to that.

Speaker 20 There were several shootings, there were several individuals with guns on campus, so you knew that the threat was there and things were starting to heat up, but again, it wasn't anything that

Speaker 20 you would think any differently.

Speaker 20 No, not.

Speaker 13 I know that the morning he died, he went back into your room.

Speaker 13 He had slept in your daughter's room because he got up in the middle of the night and she got up in the middle of the night and there was a switcher room.

Speaker 14 We've all been there. Yeah.

Speaker 13 But he came back into your room and he got his necklace and he got his wedding ring, right?

Speaker 13 And his necklace had a cross on it and it had St. Michael's medal.
Yeah. I wear it every day.

Speaker 14 It's right here. Wow.

Speaker 13 Oh, it's so beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 13 And Erica,

Speaker 13 help me understand.

Speaker 13 I genuinely don't understand. I've asked Frank Turek this.
I've asked everyone I can ask this question.

Speaker 13 I don't understand how you can be wearing your cross and your St. Michael's medal and be shot to death.
I feel, as Charlie felt, that that's armor.

Speaker 13 You know, we wear that to protect us and we believe God will protect us.

Speaker 13 How have you squared that?

Speaker 20 The Lord is so powerful, and we're not meant to understand

Speaker 20 all of his ways.

Speaker 20 but there's mercy in that,

Speaker 20 knowing that God uses evil for good.

Speaker 20 I don't know what exactly that is,

Speaker 20 but I do know that the Lord will use it, and if that means revival,

Speaker 14 the Lord,

Speaker 20 I told people, I said, I have never found more comfort in the statement, thy will be done.

Speaker 13 Explain that why?

Speaker 20 Because it shows that control is an absolute illusion.

Speaker 20 The Lord knows the number of hairs on our head, and He knows the number of our days.

Speaker 20 And that's why Charlie was so intentional of making sure everyone knew that their role in life was so important,

Speaker 20 and that you guys are all the missing puzzle piece to

Speaker 20 this whole story. And

Speaker 20 we used to explain it when we would have dinner sometimes about how when you look at a tapestry on one side you see all of these hanging threads, and it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 20 They're all different colored threads all over the place. But when you turn that tapestry around,

Speaker 20 you see how beautifully woven together

Speaker 20 and how intentional every thread is to that tapestry.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 20 yes, I fully believe that you put on the full armor of God every single day.

Speaker 20 I mean, henceforth, all of my bracelets and rings, like everything has meaning to me, and that's why I always wear my bracelets, always wear my rings, always wear my necklaces. And

Speaker 20 it's one of those things where we will never understand

Speaker 20 God's ways fully. We're not meant to.

Speaker 20 We wouldn't be,

Speaker 20 our

Speaker 20 mortal brains would not be able to even compute what He has designed and put together.

Speaker 20 But what I do know

Speaker 20 is that

Speaker 20 the Lord spoke through Charlie in so many ways,

Speaker 14 and

Speaker 14 I

Speaker 20 still feel so deeply connected to him.

Speaker 20 And I know that the Lord

Speaker 20 used such evil

Speaker 20 to bring about something that will eventually come to good.

Speaker 13 It's already started.

Speaker 13 I've seen it.

Speaker 13 I am a big believer in signs.

Speaker 13 You know, I think when you lose somebody, if you ask for a sign, do you guys believe in signs?

Speaker 13 Have you gotten any from him?

Speaker 20 You know, it's so interesting. When we first started dating,

Speaker 20 this is personal, but I share it only because maybe it'll be a sign for you to know that Charlie's with you and something.

Speaker 20 When we first started dating, we would walk, we were walking to dinner one night, and this happened a lot. The lights would start to flicker.

Speaker 20 And he'd look up at the light and be like, you know, it's so weird. This happens to me a lot.
And I was like, really? He's like, yeah.

Speaker 20 So our whole dating and whole marriage, anytime we'd be a room and a light started to flicker, he would just look at me and wink. It was like our little thing.

Speaker 14 It's power.

Speaker 20 It's a total frequency thing. And so

Speaker 20 the night everything happened when we were in Utah, I was in a hotel room by myself,

Speaker 20 in the bedroom portion by myself. And the bathroom light was on, and it just was a strobe light.

Speaker 20 All night, just flick. And I was like, part of me couldn't sleep because it was a strobe light.

Speaker 20 The other part of of me couldn't sleep because of how just my world has just crumbled, and the other part of me couldn't sleep because I was like, baby, I feel you. I know you're here.

Speaker 20 So that was, you know, some signs. But another sign, too, is just my daughter, you know, just saying little things and like, I'm okay.

Speaker 20 I see you. Is she starting to get it?

Speaker 14 I,

Speaker 20 yes, and no.

Speaker 20 I we talk, I make, We talk about heaven. I make it really exciting.

Speaker 20 I tell her, Daddy had so much fun today. Everyone who has written letters and sent gifts to my children, thank you.

Speaker 20 I tell her, my son, he's only a year and a half, but I tell both of them,

Speaker 20 Daddy is telling all of his friends to send you gifts and letters. And, you know, daddy is orchestrating from heaven to make sure that you always feel so loved.

Speaker 20 And the other day she was like, Tell me about Daddy's day in heaven. So just we talk about that at night.
And then sometimes I'll say, well, tell me what you think he did in heaven today.

Speaker 20 And we just, I just try to make it exciting because it is. It is.

Speaker 20 Heaven is

Speaker 14 heaven's our home.

Speaker 20 And so I just want her to know that daddy is having so much fun and building a place for her and our family in

Speaker 14 How do you.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 I know that you haven't watched the video and you shouldn't watch the video and you don't. I'll never watch that video.
And you don't want the kids to watch the video. Yeah.

Speaker 13 But how are you going to handle it when they get older, Erica, and they start to learn about the haters?

Speaker 13 Right? Because there does have to come the time where that needs to be put in the proper perspective. Charlie was so tough.

Speaker 13 It was hard to get him rattled about these attacks. But,

Speaker 13 and I can speak to this,

Speaker 13 having my own children, two of whom are backstage, you know, there comes a time where you have to sort of help your kids understand

Speaker 13 the terrible negative messages that are out there about someone they deeply love.

Speaker 13 Have you thought about that at all? Like, how are you going to walk them into that?

Speaker 20 You know,

Speaker 20 I first and foremost want my children to have a childhood. So that's another reason why I don't put them on the internet.
It's another reason why I don't expose them to certain screen time.

Speaker 20 I've said it before, some of the shows, the only shows it would watch is Charlie, Bob Ross, because he has a very nap-inducing voice.

Speaker 20 And then, you know, every now and then it would be some of Charlie's events.

Speaker 20 But I want them to be children first, and I want to teach them

Speaker 20 so much about God

Speaker 20 and Jesus so that when they do get older and they do see the hate,

Speaker 20 they also understand how much good is still out there.

Speaker 20 And they also understand that they could be the antidote to the evil

Speaker 20 and they can pray for those people and not be afraid. I'd never want them to be afraid.

Speaker 20 But I want them to also see that that evil

Speaker 20 is because they or their parents or their loved ones is actually doing something to make a difference.

Speaker 20 Because if

Speaker 20 you're not getting attacked or slandered or

Speaker 20 whatever else out there, you're just looking a lot like the rest of the world, and I want them to know that that's okay.

Speaker 20 You know,

Speaker 20 I have been called so many names, I have been

Speaker 20 slandered, and

Speaker 20 none of that means anything to me. It's all just noise.

Speaker 20 Oh, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 13 Watching people turn on you has been one of the most unexpected, strange, terrible things.

Speaker 14 You know what, Degan?

Speaker 20 And I know you get this because you have a very, you have a thick skin and a soft heart. The thing is, is that

Speaker 20 the more that people, and it gets outlandish more and more crazy as time goes on because there's just a void that apparently needs to be filled. But

Speaker 20 I'm okay with the world not understanding me.

Speaker 20 I'm okay with that.

Speaker 20 I'm okay with

Speaker 20 the,

Speaker 20 you know,

Speaker 14 I don't want to look like the world.

Speaker 20 As Christians, we're called to be in the world, not of it. And if they could understand me, then I'm not doing something right.

Speaker 13 That's well said.

Speaker 13 Forgive me, did you see people didn't understand the hug that you and JD had?

Speaker 13 They went to the weirdest places, Erica.

Speaker 14 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 20 You guys.

Speaker 20 Please. So for those of you who know me, I never, I'm a very,

Speaker 20 I love, I hug.

Speaker 13 You're an intense hugger.

Speaker 20 Whoever is like hating on a hug needs a hug themselves. I will give you a free hug anytime you want a hug.
My love language is touch, if you will. But seriously, that hug.

Speaker 20 So I will give you a play-by-play.

Speaker 20 Walking, they just played the emotional video. I'm walking over.
He's walking over. I'm starting to cry.
He says, he's so proud of you. And I say, God bless you.
And I touch the back of his head.

Speaker 20 Anyone who I have hugged, that I have touched the back of your head when I hug you, I always say, God bless you.

Speaker 20 That's just me. If you want to take that out of context, go right ahead.
Again, that to me shows that you need a hug more than anyone else.

Speaker 20 So if anyone...

Speaker 13 They were acting like you touched the back of his ass.

Speaker 20 I feel like I wouldn't get as much hate if I did that versus.

Speaker 20 But no, seriously, so now when I go and hug people, I'll bring them back in and be like, I obviously didn't give you the right hug. Like, come, let me touch the back of my head.

Speaker 13 Let's go.

Speaker 20 I don't know what to do with my hair.

Speaker 14 You can't touch the head.

Speaker 13 What can I touch?

Speaker 14 I know.

Speaker 14 Not me.

Speaker 13 I've always like, if you touch the back of my head, I'm like, oh, she's feeling the extensions.

Speaker 20 Damn. That's another thing.
People think my hair is fake. It is very real.

Speaker 13 My hairstylist told me your hair is real. She was like, oh no, that's all real.
This is real.

Speaker 14 I love some women.

Speaker 20 They like come and touch the back of my head. I'm like, what are you doing?

Speaker 14 They're feeling.

Speaker 14 I know.

Speaker 13 How is that real? Have you just been growing it out your whole life?

Speaker 13 We want to know.

Speaker 20 My mother.

Speaker 20 Okay, so

Speaker 20 I loved sports growing up. I was the

Speaker 20 my I started playing basketball when I was five. My first coach he was Charles Barkley of all people which is amazing to have as your five-year-old YMCA coach.

Speaker 13 Good to see you with your little Charles Barkley doll.

Speaker 14 That was great.

Speaker 20 He's an awesome man. His daughter was a dear friend.

Speaker 20 And so I loved sports and my mom, I was swimming all the time. I was always super active.
And since my mom worked,

Speaker 20 I was always at the Boys and Girls Club. Always.
And I was the last kid to get picked up from the Boys and Girls Club every single day.

Speaker 20 And the poor counselor, or whatever you want to call him, that had to stand with me waiting for my mom to pick me up every day.

Speaker 20 I loved sports. I loved basketball so much.
It was such a good escape for me as a child. And

Speaker 20 I remember my hair from swimming was so ratted because I have very coarse hair, and my mom hated combing my hair. And so her solution was a bowl cut

Speaker 20 straight across.

Speaker 20 Traumatizing. To this point, my hairdresser knows when we get a trim, it is literally like a fraction of my hair.
I will never have hair shorter than my shoulders. Charlie loved my hair, though.

Speaker 20 He just, he loved how long it was.

Speaker 13 So what you're saying is you have long, thick, coarse hair that takes you a while to grow out and take care of, and you're not black or named Michelle Obama. Which is fascinating that can happen.

Speaker 20 With all the conspiracy theories out there, I'm not going to touch that one either.

Speaker 13 Hopefully, you haven't been paying too much attention to the news cycle, but they know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 20 No, but

Speaker 20 my hair, to get back to that, is something that I just,

Speaker 20 it was, I'm not going to cut it.

Speaker 14 I'm not going to, you know, Charlie liked it long.

Speaker 20 He liked it. He liked it long, and here we are.

Speaker 20 But my mom, if you ask my mom, she'll tell you,

Speaker 20 it's when

Speaker 20 you, she grew up from the standpoint of a Lebanese-Italian background, and you're supposed to shave your kids' head when they're two, and then it's supposed to grow back really thick after that.

Speaker 20 I was a product of the shaved head, so if you would like to try that on your two-year-old,

Speaker 20 unsolicited advice is.

Speaker 13 Does it work on the 55-year-old?

Speaker 14 I have no idea.

Speaker 20 You guys tell me. I don't know.

Speaker 13 Am I going to try?

Speaker 13 You know, you raised the issue of the bad.

Speaker 20 If you see a shaved head by December, you know why. Oh, yeah.
We all look like Britney Spears.

Speaker 14 The headline will, they went full skin head. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 13 There you go. And are listening to Nick Wentz.

Speaker 14 It's the last thing. That'll be.
Yeah. No.
Yeah, that's a good thing. It's a no.

Speaker 13 While we're on the subject, because you really were a very strong female athlete, can I ask you your position on that?

Speaker 14 No, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 Because this is obviously a dominant thing. We had Megan Rapino in the news just this week saying people are, they don't really mean it.

Speaker 13 They don't actually have an objection to men playing in women's sports. They're just using it as an issue.
She made all her money. She's sitting pretty.

Speaker 13 But she wants your daughter to play against boys. Your thoughts on it?

Speaker 20 So,

Speaker 20 well, you can take this as a twofold. So if you're looking at it from the sports angle, where you're playing up against

Speaker 14 men,

Speaker 20 I mean, I know this has been said before, but then what's the point of female sports?

Speaker 20 But to me, being an idiot, I played in college.

Speaker 20 I worked so hard for that scholarship.

Speaker 20 I knew my strengths as a point guard. I hated driving the lane, always.
I always shot the three. That was like my thing.
I'm not driving to have someone who's like six, seven, just not happening.

Speaker 13 She said it.

Speaker 14 So

Speaker 14 for me,

Speaker 20 sports has a very special place in my heart. But

Speaker 20 as a mom

Speaker 20 now and watching my daughter compete, it's just,

Speaker 20 I know they say, you know, life isn't fair. I get that.
Life's not fair. But there's certain things

Speaker 20 that

Speaker 20 are really special.

Speaker 20 And women's sports is one of them. And it's really, some people look down on it, some people think it's not it.
But, you know, those girls have worked so hard for their position.

Speaker 20 And to have it taken away from them by someone who

Speaker 20 couldn't rank in their own

Speaker 20 sport and field,

Speaker 20 it's demoralizing. And it also weighs on the whole topic of

Speaker 20 being a woman, being proud to be a woman, being proud to be a strong female athlete. And I wouldn't want that taken away from anybody.

Speaker 13 That's right, having the glorious chance of accomplishment. I mean,

Speaker 13 we'll never win if we're playing against biological boys.

Speaker 13 We'll never have that glorious feeling of crossing the finish line first or being the one who has the game-winning shot because it's always going to go to a man. It's just one of the basic things.

Speaker 13 We always talk about the unfairness of it and the safety of it, but just think about that, like the glorious feeling of winning, which

Speaker 13 I never had because I wasn't an athlete. But you had it.

Speaker 20 I don't know. I feel like politics somewhat is form of an athletic feat.

Speaker 13 You know, I had it like when Don Lemon got fired.

Speaker 20 It depends. That was your moment.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 14 You know, we all look up for our moments. Yeah, we feel good.

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Speaker 13 I want to ask you about the book that you're holding in your hand.

Speaker 20 Yes, Charlie's book. I took the dust cover off because I carry his book everywhere.
Stop in the Name of God. It's coming out soon.

Speaker 13 Charlie's coming out with a book. Yeah.

Speaker 13 He's coming out with a book.

Speaker 13 Stop in the name of God, which is a great title. Stop in the name of God.
And what is it about?

Speaker 20 It took him a year and a half to write it. And this book,

Speaker 20 I mean, when I'm reading it, I'm like, I did not even know you knew that.

Speaker 20 It is so powerful.

Speaker 20 Overarching theme of it is the power of honoring the Sabbath and the importance of rest.

Speaker 20 And reading this, and I even brought one of his journals with me to read out of it because

Speaker 20 the thing that's so interesting about reading this book and reading this journal, and I know a lot of you that are Christians will understand this.

Speaker 20 They tell you that when you read the Bible, it's the living word of God, and it is.

Speaker 20 And you see

Speaker 20 the Lord in technicolor when you read the Bible and you actually understand

Speaker 20 those words. And so, for me, reading

Speaker 20 Charlie's journals and reading this book,

Speaker 20 it's like he's, I mean, he's still, he's present with the Lord, but it feels like he's still fully here.

Speaker 20 And that's what's so powerful about this book. And I watched him as a wife completely transform

Speaker 20 into

Speaker 20 an already, I mean, he was already amazing and incredible, but it totally elevated him when he was honoring the Sabbath and when he really took that seriously, that time to rest seriously. And

Speaker 20 I just can't help but think, like, if everything, and to go to your point of signs,

Speaker 20 I don't think anything is by coincidence, but

Speaker 20 to have this be his last book and to him totally master what it means to rest with the Lord, it's all for us full circle now because it's the ultimate Sabbath where he is right now.

Speaker 13 When did you get to read it?

Speaker 20 When? Yeah. As much as I can, driving into the office or.

Speaker 13 Was it written

Speaker 13 in its entirety before Charlie died? Yes.

Speaker 20 It was. Yes, it was.
He finished writing this, I believe, in July, June or July of this year.

Speaker 13 So you had read it?

Speaker 20 But to read it in a book format and not an email format that he would send me is

Speaker 20 night and day difference, yeah.

Speaker 13 What are the pages that are folded up?

Speaker 20 The one that I, well, all of them are amazing, but the one that I wanted to read was

Speaker 20 the part about sleeping because Charlie, his adrenaline was always going, and it was very hard for him to turn his brain off at night. Henceforth, snacks at like 2 a.m.

Speaker 13 Did you tell me olives and bananas?

Speaker 20 Not together, not together, but you know.

Speaker 13 But it was like even snacking in a healthy manner.

Speaker 14 Almonds, yeah.

Speaker 13 Also, we do have to discuss the fact that you said he only had mint chocolate chip ice cream once a year.

Speaker 13 Twice. Twice.
On his birthday and fourth a year. Fourth of July on his birthday.

Speaker 13 And no ice cream any other day.

Speaker 20 His self-control and self-discipline was phenomenal and to the point too where when I was pregnant 70% of the reason why no one saw me when I was pregnant was because of this situation the other 30% was because I just was with my babies but 70% of it was

Speaker 20 I'm really hungry. I think I should have a milkshake? Baby, get that milkshake.
But I don't know if I should have that milkshake. You need the milkshake.
I'm going to go and get you that milkshake.

Speaker 20 Do you want a hot fudge Sunday too? I'm going to get that in-and-out burger. No questions.
I'll be right back. Animal style.
So he'd come home. He loved it because he loved driving around at night.

Speaker 20 So he'd come home with the In-N-Out burger, animal style, protein stock, whatever, mixed in with the hot fudge Sunday, the chocolate shake.

Speaker 20 And he would be so excited to give it to me and watch me eat it. But that was because he was living vicariously through me.

Speaker 20 So no joke, I got to like 190 pounds. I was like, I am literally going to weigh more than you by the end of this pregnancy.
And he'd be like, baby, you look great.

Speaker 20 You look, don't worry about that that's just baby weight that'll I mean granted it does go away it takes out there eating his olives no no he's just watching me and I'm like I will enjoy this hot fudge Sunday while you wish that you could have but he was so self-disciplined and he was so good about eating he was biohacking was his love language of being healthy eating clean he could not operate on

Speaker 20 fast food the way that he was in general. Like that's why he never drank.

Speaker 20 That's why he never it wasn't from you know a motive of I'm better than whoever it was from the motive of I need to operate as if I'm going to war every single day and I can't operate on this type of food

Speaker 20 and speaking of the sleep that's very right so the sleep was important because I was like he he loved his sleep and something that I was very intentional about is when he came home

Speaker 20 I would always let him sleep in, always on the weekends.

Speaker 20 I would take the kids, go for a walk, whatever it took, and I would want him to wake up when it was time to wake up because I knew how important rest was for him. And so when I read this in the book,

Speaker 20 it was on my heart to share it with you because the title of it says, Jesus Slept, Elijah Slept, and So Can You.

Speaker 20 And he said, so start tonight, close the laptop, power down the phone, let the dishes wait, pull the shades, dim the lights, and give your body permission to do what it was created to do, to rest.

Speaker 20 Let Let your bed become an altar of trust as your head touches the pillow and whisper to God, I release it all to you.

Speaker 20 You don't need to check one more email, you don't need to prove anything, you don't need to carry the weight of the world, it already has a savior.

Speaker 20 And it's not you. Sleep is not a distraction from your purpose, it is part of your purpose.
It is a sacred rhythm that restores your mind, heals your body, and quiets your soul.

Speaker 20 The Sabbath is your weekly reminder that you are not a machine. You are a beloved child.
And children sleep well when they know their Father is near. So go ahead, embrace the gift.

Speaker 20 Make your Sabbath a day not just of rest, but of sleep. Deep, joyful, and replenishing sleep.
You're allowed. And more than that, you're invited.
Rest isn't weakness, it's worship.

Speaker 20 And tomorrow will be better because you trusted God enough to rest today. Wow.

Speaker 13 And He was keeping the Sabbath.

Speaker 20 He was.

Speaker 20 So with that, since today is his Sabbath,

Speaker 20 I wanted to read to you from his journal.

Speaker 13 Oh, wow. Is that it right there?

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 14 Wow. In his handwriting.

Speaker 20 A note that he wrote to himself

Speaker 20 to honor the Sabbath. He said, Dear Lord,

Speaker 20 Thank you for a wonderful week. Thank you for your endless protection and provision.

Speaker 20 Father God, thank you for your mercy and grace. Lord, I did better this week despite the challenges of travel.
I miss my wife. It's hard to be away from her for a few days.

Speaker 20 Thank you for giving us a roadmap of what it means to be obedient and put Christ first.

Speaker 20 Lord, I have realized the following.

Speaker 20 The battle against the mind is Satan's playground. He dwells and prowls to destroy.

Speaker 20 The more in alignment we walk in your command and teachings, the more joy and blessing we experience.

Speaker 20 Lord, thank you for showing us the way, the truth, and the life.

Speaker 20 Thank you for blessing our organization.

Speaker 20 I pray for resolution amongst the divides that Satan is attempting.

Speaker 20 Lord, we pray for blessing for the people who feel they have been wronged. Father God, we ask for your guidance, wisdom, and direction, your comfort and your healing.

Speaker 20 We love you, Lord. Thank you for another Sabbath.
CK.

Speaker 14 Wow.

Speaker 13 Erica, I know you touched on it earlier,

Speaker 13 but

Speaker 13 one of the reactions I have to hearing that is like, I get angry.

Speaker 13 How can that man have been taken?

Speaker 14 How

Speaker 13 he was all goodness. The left who are bastardizing his memory have no idea what they're talking about.
Charlie was all goodness.

Speaker 14 I know we can't understand God's plan, but have you had bouts of anger?

Speaker 13 You know, I think about what the kids are going to miss, what you got gipped out of, what poor Charlie now

Speaker 13 is going to miss, and I feel angry. Sadness, of course, obviously, but yes, against the accused shooter, but just

Speaker 13 I know you don't ever feel angry against God, but I kind of do.

Speaker 14 I understand.

Speaker 13 How do you make sense of that? And do you have any anger when you think about it towards the Lord, but in general?

Speaker 20 The enemy would love for me to be angry.

Speaker 14 He would would love it.

Speaker 14 He would love it.

Speaker 20 Because it would distract me from building what Charlie entrusted to me. Raising our babies.

Speaker 20 Turning point.

Speaker 20 Being there for the team.

Speaker 20 Being there for...

Speaker 20 What the future holds. And if I had any amount of anger in my heart and spirit, the Lord would not be able to use me.

Speaker 20 And every single day, just how Charlie did, stood on stage, he would say, here I am, Lord, use me.

Speaker 20 And if I had that anger in my heart, that foothold from the enemy,

Speaker 20 he wouldn't be able to.

Speaker 13 I know

Speaker 13 at Charlie's Memorial, right across the way here,

Speaker 13 there was that extraordinary moment where you forgave his accused killer.

Speaker 13 And I mean, I looked and I said, that's the most powerful, strongest thing I've ever seen anybody do in my life.

Speaker 13 And then somebody helped me understand because I thought

Speaker 13 I could never do it. I could never do it.
And somebody said to me, forgiveness is an action, not an emotion. And I was like, okay, that's getting me closer to feeling like I could do it.

Speaker 13 If I don't actually have to feel loving in my heart toward the person.

Speaker 13 But I wonder, like, how do you,

Speaker 13 if you could say something to him, if you could, like, if you say something to his parents, like, what would it be? Would it be anger? Would it be sympathy?

Speaker 14 What would it be?

Speaker 20 That's a good question. Wouldn't be, it wouldn't be,

Speaker 20 it wouldn't be sympathy. It wouldn't be anger.

Speaker 20 How do you put this?

Speaker 20 Anything that I could ever

Speaker 20 wish upon him or that family

Speaker 20 would pale in comparison

Speaker 20 of the justice of God.

Speaker 20 And so I would look at them

Speaker 14 almost like

Speaker 20 I'm so glad I'm not you.

Speaker 20 I am so glad I'm not you.

Speaker 20 And I pray that

Speaker 20 you figure out a way to be right with the Lord, but

Speaker 20 our God is sovereign, but he's also very just.

Speaker 20 We serve him.

Speaker 20 Very just-filled God.

Speaker 13 Thanks for listening to the The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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