Yes, You Can Make a Difference: This Remarkable Story Will Inspire You to Do Something Big

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Speaker 1 Exclusions apply. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 1 So the other day, I was listening to one of my favorite podcasts and I heard the most incredible, like crazy story. And I'm like, I have got to talk to this guy with you.

Speaker 1 I mean, we got to get him on the podcast. And he is here today.
I cannot wait to introduce you to Lorenzo Lewis. He is a guy who, against all odds, turned his own life around.

Speaker 1 And then he came up with this wildly creative and innovative way to deliver free mental health services to millions of people who otherwise might not receive the support that they deserve.

Speaker 1 Wait till you hear Lorenzo Lewis' life story. It is so incredible.
The odds were stacked against him since the day he was born. His mother gave birth to him in jail.

Speaker 1 His father died in prison when Lorenzo was only 10 years old. As a child, he acted out.
He was labeled a problem and struggled with anger and anxiety and depression.

Speaker 1 But of course, you know, he was never told that all of these feelings had a name. He was never told about the trauma that he experienced.
And despite all these odds, Lorenzo turned his life around.

Speaker 1 He graduated from college and became a mental health advocate for the Department of Health and Human Services.

Speaker 1 Now, it was there, working in a hospital, that he noticed this major disconnect between the therapists, the psychiatrists, the mental health professionals, and all the patients in the hospital that they were trying to help.

Speaker 1 As Lorenzo puts it, only 4% of therapists and licensed mental health professionals are black. And this creates a major gap in representation because the therapists don't have relevant life experience.

Speaker 1 Plus, there's there's a stigma around mental health in the black communities causing this sense of shame and a lack of trust that makes it difficult for people to open up to therapists.

Speaker 1 And this gap and this distrust is not just in black communities. According to recent studies, 47%

Speaker 1 of us still believe that seeking therapy or help for mental health issues is a sign of weakness. We know it's not.
but that's what a lot of people think.

Speaker 1 And 60% of us, when we do seek help for mental health issues, according to research, we don't fully trust the person we're getting the help from.

Speaker 1 Now, Lorenzo wanted to do something about this, and this man is used to beating the odds, so he was not discouraged. He was on a mission.

Speaker 1 With his wife's support, he quit his job and he decided to pursue a breakthrough idea. Now, what if I told you this mental health revolution all started with your hairdresser.

Speaker 1 The Confess Project was born and it trains barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates for the men, women, and children who are sitting in their chairs. How cool is that?

Speaker 1 Lorenzo's nonprofit has trained over 3,000 barbers and beauticians to become mental health advocates. They now reach over 3 million people a year.

Speaker 1 Now, the reason why I wanted you to hear this remarkable story is because I knew it would inspire you to think again about the difference you can truly make.

Speaker 1 As you listen, I want you to consider, Lorenzo's not a psychiatrist or a therapist. He doesn't have a medical degree and nobody gave him permission or asked him to do this.

Speaker 1 He just saw a problem and he wanted to solve it. So he answered the call.

Speaker 1 And that's all you need to do if you want to make a difference in your family or community or the world at large. Get ready to be inspired.

Speaker 1 Please help me welcome Lorenzo Lewis, the founder of the Confess Project, to the Mel Robbins podcast. Lorenzo, it is so fabulous to have you here.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so so glad to be here. Thanks again.
This is really an honor.

Speaker 1 Awesome. Well, it's an honor for us.
Why don't we start with the basics?

Speaker 1 What is your mission with the Confessed Project?

Speaker 2 So the Confessed Project is a nonprofit organization that supports barbers and stylists to be mental health advocates.

Speaker 2 We've trained over 3,000 barbers and stylists across 52 cities in 35 states on this model that allows them to be great listeners, to support their clients, and also to support their communities.

Speaker 2 This model is ongoing and continually

Speaker 2 growing in regards of mental health advocacy and how they are able to provide value to their friends and neighbors in their communities.

Speaker 2 Really ensuring that stigma is reduced and that people are having the best quality of life that they deserve.

Speaker 1 Do you remember the moment when you came up with the idea for the Confessed Project?

Speaker 2 I remember, in particular, getting my college degree. I was ecstatic because I had really beat the odds of,

Speaker 2 you know, you're talking about a kid who had been formally incarcerated, that didn't live with his mother and father,

Speaker 2 born in jail to an incarcerated mother, losing his father at the age of 10,

Speaker 2 staying with relatives, not knowing my siblings well, being a part of gangs. You know, when I graduated college,

Speaker 2 it was one of those iconic feelings because I didn't imagine me living to see that long or rather I thought I would be in jail.

Speaker 2 And being that I made it to that moment,

Speaker 2 I also knew that there was just a deeper calling. So I found myself grappling with how could I really show up more than what I had been able to accomplish for self.

Speaker 2 And so I met a friend that was in the nonprofit space and that gave me encouragement to really really share my story. And I really dug deep and started to explore what that would look like.

Speaker 2 You're talking about someone who had never done public speaking, no one who had really ever done any kind of community organizing, any kind of civic engagement work.

Speaker 2 I had no idea what any of that stuff really meant.

Speaker 2 I was just grateful to not be dead or be in jail.

Speaker 1 How old were you?

Speaker 2 At that time, I was 20,

Speaker 2 maybe 24, 25.

Speaker 2 Yeah, getting right out of college, 25, no more than 26 at the most.

Speaker 1 I think this is a really important part of your story, Lorenzo, and it's one of the reasons why I tracked you down. I said, we have to get this man on the Mel Robbins podcast.
Because

Speaker 1 your story to me is an example

Speaker 1 that no matter who you are, what background you have, what education you have or you don't have, what family support, what trauma, any of it, that any one,

Speaker 1 including you listening to us, can make a decision that you're going to either leave your community, your family, the world around you a little bit better place.

Speaker 1 And so here you are, and we're going to get into your story in just a minute, but here you are, you have beaten the odds,

Speaker 1 you have graduated from college, you have met somebody in the nonprofit space, and they're encouraging you to share your story about how you were able to graduate from college, how you were able to overcome the odds that were stacked against you.

Speaker 1 And in this moment where somebody is basically saying to you, dude, you got a lot that you could share with people,

Speaker 1 it hits you that you want to do more. And so how did you connect the dots between

Speaker 1 barbers

Speaker 1 and mental health?

Speaker 2 Really good question. And I have a really good answer.

Speaker 2 Well, I grew up, my aunt, who took me in as a as a young

Speaker 2 you know I was months old when my mother was incarcerated after she had birth and I was one step between going into the foster care system

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 you know they stepped in they drove all the way from Little Rock Arkansas to Newark New Jersey to ensure that I did not go in the system of foster care and my aunt also was a beautician.

Speaker 2 So as you can imagine, growing up,

Speaker 2 I went to the beauty shop every day and that was just a part of life.

Speaker 2 From the time I was

Speaker 2 able to go to school, when I got off the school bus, I went to the beauty shop. That's where I did my homework in the evenings.

Speaker 2 That's where it was a minute time we had dinner in the beauty shop because that's where she was working late.

Speaker 2 So, you know, this is where it was a huge part of my life every day.

Speaker 2 But I was also a mentor there by a guy named Sylvester. He was the only barber there.
It was about five operators there.

Speaker 2 So out of four, it was women, and he was the one male barber that I also found as my first mentor.

Speaker 2 And, you know,

Speaker 2 again, just going every day, it was a sense of family, a sense of, you know,

Speaker 2 the village and our community that really supports one another. And this is really where I recognize the power of building barbershops being a young kid.
And so

Speaker 2 that in itself really gave the inspiration for the Confess Project today

Speaker 2 because of, you know, going every day and just seeing the empowerment, hearing stories of people overcoming, whether they were facing a bad relationship or something going on with their family member or all the way from people graduating college or.

Speaker 2 children going, you know, first day of school, you know, everything you can imagine, we heard it. We was a part of that journey in some kind of way because those conversations are shared every day.

Speaker 2 And so that's really how the work really blossomed because me finding that mentorship to those empowering stories and really watching my aunt and those stylers and barbers lift people up and everyday people that was just trying to make it.

Speaker 1 You know what else is cool about this? Is that this is your lived personal experience. And so just so everybody's following the story, when you were born,

Speaker 1 Your mother was in jail and your dad was also incarcerated.

Speaker 1 And so the options for you, and I don't know if you know this about me, but I was a legal aid attorney in New York City working for legal aid doing criminal defense work.

Speaker 1 The options are basically foster care unless a family member steps up. And so your aunt steps up, she drives up from Arkansas, she picks you up in Newark, and she brings you back.

Speaker 1 And she happens to be an entrepreneur who is working as a beautician in a black-owned beauty and barber shop.

Speaker 1 And can you also explain for people listening, either in the United States or in the 194 countries where this show is syndicated,

Speaker 1 how

Speaker 1 important

Speaker 1 a black-owned barber and beauty shop is in the black community when you think about it from a historical, a cultural perspective, that it's not only your lived experience, but for many communities, black-owned barbershops and beauty shops also have historically been a gathering place, been where people organize for civil rights.

Speaker 1 So can you talk a little bit about how your personal experience also dovetails with the lived experience of so many black Americans?

Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, you said it, Mel, as

Speaker 2 black barbershops and salons really was engulfed. you know, in the civil rights era.

Speaker 2 And we think about, you know, the Malden brothers and we think about, you know, the NAACP organizing for voters rights all of those

Speaker 2 intersections played a role in barbershop we also think about

Speaker 2 as far back as barbers were seen as doctors and you know as caretakers in our communities

Speaker 2 as even further back as just thinking about

Speaker 2 the the work that's been done and economically in barbershop. So it's one of the few places that the

Speaker 2 folks can, you know, gain generational wealth by owning their barber or beauty salon.

Speaker 2 And so I think about like my aunt, you know, and for years, her having her beauty shop and what that was able to

Speaker 2 afford in our life. And they also built a beauty shop in the back of our house as well.
So it was, I had one at home and one away. So you can imagine it was a mini day that I faced

Speaker 2 sharing breakfast, but also smelling the

Speaker 2 fumes of chemicals from here.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 it was a part of our life and this was very common is that people would even have this at home and they would also travel. It's just a huge part of how our lifestyles looked.
And so,

Speaker 2 but all the way up to now, it's recognized as

Speaker 2 a hub for lifestyle.

Speaker 2 Just thinking about young people going to the same barber or young ladies seeing the same stylist for years from the age of five to their 20, you know, depending on the different caveats in life.

Speaker 2 So it's a huge part of, you know, our lifestyle,

Speaker 2 professional lifestyle in so many ways. And it's the only place outside of church where you have homeless neighbors and principals and entrepreneurs in the same place.

Speaker 2 And all imagined classes that can gather in one place

Speaker 2 at the same time. And that's very uncommon in many places that we can hear in society.

Speaker 1 It's an important piece to why I think the

Speaker 1 Confess Project

Speaker 1 is not only such a genius idea, but that it is making such an extraordinary difference. I want to go back a little bit, though, because your mission, Lorenzo, is to

Speaker 1 really

Speaker 1 provide access to mental health services and support to communities where there is not a lot of access. Only 4% of therapists that are trained and licensed are black.

Speaker 1 And you are also not only trying to close this accessibility gap, but you're also trying to close, or I should probably say open up vulnerability.

Speaker 1 in communities and with people who feel like therapy is a weakness. And so I would love to go back to your story, but I want to take a quick pause.

Speaker 1 We need to hear a word from our sponsors who allow us to bring this amazing content to you for free so let's take a listen and when we come back we've got more from lorenzo and the confess project when we return stay with us

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Speaker 1 Totally.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back.

Speaker 1 I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm here with Lorenzo Lewis, and we're hearing the remarkable story about how he came up with the idea for the Confess Project and how they're reaching over 3 million people a year with free mental health services.

Speaker 1 So Lorenzo, I would love to go back to your story a little bit because, you know, here you are, you're being raised by your aunt.

Speaker 1 You are going to her store and to her home, which is now your home, every day after school.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't until a little bit later in life that you realized that you were struggling with depression and anxiety and anger.

Speaker 1 Can you talk a little bit about what you were feeling and kind of not knowing the words, depression, anxiety, anger?

Speaker 1 Like what was it like for you, Lorenzo, to be a kid and to lose your dad at 10 and to not have your mom around and to experience the racism and bias that you experienced in your life?

Speaker 1 So that you can describe for people who may not have considered that's anxiety. So tell us a little bit about what it was like for you.

Speaker 2 I knew in some ways, many ways, that I had a really good upbringing, which I really did.

Speaker 2 I believe my aunt and uncle did a really good job of ensuring that,

Speaker 2 in so many ways, that I,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 was able to have the support that I needed.

Speaker 2 But beyond that,

Speaker 2 I knew that there was something not really right for the most part around the way that I felt about things.

Speaker 1 How did you feel?

Speaker 2 Lost, Lost,

Speaker 2 a lot of times very angry.

Speaker 2 And the reality of it was,

Speaker 2 maybe I blamed it on, oh, I don't like this teacher at school or I'm not getting along with friends in the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 But the reality of it was I didn't feel seen and heard because the truth of the matter, I didn't have my mother and father around.

Speaker 2 And I didn't share their love and that connection with them.

Speaker 2 So I didn't feel really seen and heard. And I did feel that I had been left out.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and so I think in so many ways I was struggling emotionally from those challenges and from those, you know, the anxieties that came with that. You know, do they love me?

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 did I do something wrong? Is it a reason that they're not here? Did I have something to do with that?

Speaker 2 Like, these are the kind of questions that go on in a young person's head when they're, you know, especially when everything has not truly been explained.

Speaker 2 Because, you you know, I think one thing as adults, we want to ensure that, you know, our children have a great life, but I think giving them more of the story sometimes may even hurt them to tell you the real story.

Speaker 2 And so I think in so many ways, you know, that was kind of my reality. But the reality behind it is that I, you know, really struggled emotionally.
And it really showed up in school.

Speaker 2 You know, I was in a behavioral health facility at the age of 10.

Speaker 1 Explain that to people who have not worked in criminal justice like I have. So what does behavioral health facility mean?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I went into a, you know, had some challenges in school and, you know, have been kicked out a few times. I think I was probably more in the third grade at that point.

Speaker 2 So, you know, could stay in class. So it was, hey, you know, this is my next option.

Speaker 1 Can I just say something? When you have kids that go undiagnosed with depression and anxiety and who feel invisible,

Speaker 1 of course there will be behavioral issues. And it makes me very angry and sad, Lorenzo, how many kids

Speaker 1 are

Speaker 1 getting disciplined because they, quote, can't behave when the real issue is there are mental health challenges that the child is facing or there are learning style differences that the child has

Speaker 1 that are not recognized and addressed by the capable adults around them.

Speaker 1 And so it just

Speaker 1 makes me angry to hear that a third grader is being kicked out of school because of behavioral issues. So here you are, you're getting kicked out of school.

Speaker 1 You're having behavioral issues because you can't understand or tolerate this like

Speaker 1 just swirl of emotion that you're feeling. And you end up in this behavioral health facility.
What was that like?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, it was, I was away for about two months. They did allow us to go home on weekends.
It was mostly structured, seeing a therapist, you know, going to do school during the day.

Speaker 2 It was very,

Speaker 2 it was a very dark place to be at as a young kid. Someone that I had never been away from home for that amount of time.

Speaker 2 I had just lost my dad. And really that was my way.

Speaker 2 I was really angry and upset from the loss of him. So that really swirled into challenges at school, which led me there.

Speaker 2 And I think that's the one thing that we have to recognize in society is that when someone's going through grief and those different challenges, that it can look different.

Speaker 2 It can manifest into mental health challenges.

Speaker 1 Well, that's grief. I mean, like what you're talking about is that what came up on the surface was anger.
But what you were actually dealing with was the profound grief and loss and sadness.

Speaker 1 And if you already felt lost in life and wondered if people cared about you and wondered where you belong, to have your dad then die, that only just kicks that in high gear.

Speaker 1 And so it doesn't surprise me that it comes out as anger.

Speaker 1 And I think that's what happens a lot of time with men in particular, is you guys get sad and you guys experience loss or disappointment, and/or bias or discrimination, and you shove it down.

Speaker 1 And what happens when you shove all that down is that a volcano erupts, and that's what you're describing.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, a kid that needed grief counseling ends up acting out at school and then gets sent somewhere for behavioral health, which is just again pointing to how

Speaker 1 we fail people so much when it comes to challenges that we face emotionally and mentally.

Speaker 1 Did you, is that when you learned that it might be anxiety or depression, or did they just sort of calm you down and send you back to school?

Speaker 2 I think I understood it more as this was a getaway because my dad had passed. It was just in my reality, it was a getaway from home to really process the loss of him and

Speaker 2 I think everything, right?

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 you know moving past that point going back into school

Speaker 2 it was also a sense of shame attached to where I had been you know and I think this is where the stigma of mental health really shows up because here I am going back to school like oh where have you been I didn't see you in a while and it's like yeah you know I've been to this place right I you know and trying to make it more cool than knowing it wasn't cool because not wanting to be shamed and I think that's where

Speaker 2 that's very common is, you know, we think about mental health and having these conversations is because that's how it typically looks where, you know, we don't really empower the situation more or less and say, yeah, I was kind of at this place and it was different than what I'm really describing, but really I'm describing it differently because I'm ashamed of who I really was.

Speaker 2 Right. And so.

Speaker 2 I experienced that early on in life, which really also, I think, can be a part of our lived experience because that becomes dormant to knowing how we navigate

Speaker 2 our emotional challenges.

Speaker 1 That's right. Because if you are surrounded by either a family or a community

Speaker 1 or an entire culture where

Speaker 1 there is shame or judgment for getting help or it's weak if you are struggling emotionally or mentally, like I always find it interesting that, for example,

Speaker 1 if you're in financial stress, like you can't pay your freaking bills, I've been in that place where

Speaker 1 I can't put groceries on the table.

Speaker 1 I'm sitting there, you know, with the check card and I'm like, dear God, please let there be a computer failure and let this go through because I know there's no money in this account, but maybe, maybe I'll swipe it and it'll work.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 worrying about real financial stress is a form of anxiety.

Speaker 1 Feeling shame that you can't pay your bills can lead to depression.

Speaker 1 And so these very real experiences that people have lead to mental health challenges that make it worse and make it harder for you to face it.

Speaker 1 But so you come back from this and you continue with school and then you have one more incident, right? That really

Speaker 1 was a wake-up call for you.

Speaker 1 Can you describe what happened?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, you know, later, you know, I always say fast forward to,

Speaker 2 you know, being 17 years old. I moved past that point

Speaker 2 of going through that.

Speaker 2 I kind of went through my honeymoon period after post being a behavioral health facility.

Speaker 2 And then I found myself joining a gang.

Speaker 2 And that led to

Speaker 2 me being incarcerated due to a firearm. One of the things that I really want to shine light on is it wasn't me joining a gang and being charged with the firearm that really is oh

Speaker 2 but I want to really also encompass that

Speaker 2 the loss

Speaker 2 again the mental health challenges and the

Speaker 2 not being you know it's it's a core African proverb that say a child who does not feel warm from the village will burn it down

Speaker 2 And I was that child that did not feel loved and seen. So everything moving forward was to be a detriment.

Speaker 2 Not knowing that's really what I was causing, but however, it was a lash out on self as a, hey, I'm going to, you know, put myself around these kind of people and put myself around these kind of risks.

Speaker 2 It's something that I internalized that also then manifested to being a part of the legal system.

Speaker 1 So Lorenzo, this feels like a great moment to take a quick pause and hear a word from our sponsors because they can bring us all this amazing content at zero cost.

Speaker 1 So stay with us and we we will be right back with more.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins.
I'm here with Lorenzo Lewis. He is the founder of the Confess Project.
His nonprofit has trained over 3,000 barbers and beauticians to become mental health advocates.

Speaker 1 They now serve over 3 million people a year who sit in the chairs in these barbershops and these beauty salons. And Lorenzo, your story is incredible.

Speaker 1 You were born in a prison to an incarcerated mother. Your aunt and uncle raised you until you were 17 years old.
And here you are. We're at the part of the story.
We're at the age of 17.

Speaker 1 You're in a gang. You're facing jail time for possession of a weapon.
Your aunt and uncle, they must have been beside themselves with you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they was very furious, to say the least, for sure. It was very.

Speaker 1 Because she does not seem like the kind of woman that would play around. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 And honestly,

Speaker 2 they really did a really good job of instilling morals and just principles.

Speaker 2 I think that allowed me to become the person that I am today, to really serve, you know,

Speaker 2 obviously show up in the community the way I do because they really stood on great things. But I think myself, knowing the challenges that I went through, I veered into that path.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I think what happens, Lorenzo, and I don't know if this is true for you, so I would love to hear your thoughts on this, is that you were clearly in an environment in that barbershop with your aunt in particular,

Speaker 1 very tied to your values. And when sorrow and despair and feeling lonely and invisible and all that grief hits, it can

Speaker 1 create a barrier between you and your ability to connect to those values and ground yourself there. You become lost in the swirl of emotion and anger.

Speaker 1 And the proverb that you said that when a child doesn't feel warmed by the village, they'll burn it down.

Speaker 1 That's why anger rises to the surface when people feel isolated and unseen and when they're struggling.

Speaker 1 And so it doesn't surprise me that, first of all, mental health challenges are what led you to losing your way, but that ultimately when you started to address the mental health challenges, you found yourself easily connecting back with those values.

Speaker 1 And so, you know,

Speaker 1 how did you turn it around?

Speaker 1 What was it? Was there a moment when you were incarcerated and you're 17 years old where you're like, I got to turn this shit around? Like,

Speaker 1 this is, I'm either going down, like, there are forks in the road in your life

Speaker 1 where you don't realize it in the moment, but you make one decision and it changes the rest of your life.

Speaker 1 So, was there a moment where

Speaker 1 you had an epiphany as you're in this low place

Speaker 1 that you got to do something different? Like what happened?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, you know, I'll never forget the week coming up to court.
And,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 I just remember a lot of the kids in there. It was,

Speaker 2 a lot of them have been repeat offenders. They had been in and out.
And we was finding out, you know,

Speaker 2 court was there Monday morning. It was like, you know, figuring out who was going to be my judge.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it was just one particular judge that everyone was just like, yeah, if you get this judge, like, they're going to lock you up longer. You'll be here longer.

Speaker 2 So I was doing everything I could to praying, like, oh, I just hope I'm going to get to serve judge.

Speaker 2 Well, I so happened to get a judge that was, you know, very much opposite to what I think the other young people were saying while I was in there. But saying all this to say.

Speaker 2 That weekend as I sat in there and I was getting ready for court, it just kept rumbling in my head that this was the the same place that I was born in this is where my father was and I just remember feeling just so hurt so lost so empty and I just I remember saying if I can get out of this I don't ever want to experience this again I'm 17 years old I'm a month before being 18 and I'm supposed to be enjoying my last year of being in school at this time and so I soaked and I got tied up with a gun and you know following the wrong people and so when I got to court that that Monday Monday, you know, I was given a second chance.

Speaker 2 And a lot of it was because of my aunt. And, you know, I think them pleading with the court to give me another chance because I had never been in no pride trouble.

Speaker 2 And obviously, I just got, you know, caught up in a situation.

Speaker 2 But I remember promising the judge that if she could give me another chance, that I would go to college, that I wouldn't, she wouldn't never have to worry about finding me in the system again.

Speaker 2 And I kept my word. And I look back today, and that's something that I you know I always said that I you know

Speaker 2 I never wanted to do was to be a part to have to go into that small room ever again and spend any time and so you know I think it was

Speaker 2 it was just a collective of just hating where I was in that moment hating the way I felt

Speaker 2 but also being scared to know that I could end up spending more time there if I didn't figure out how to get out of this situation or if it would continue.

Speaker 2 And so that just led me, me, you know, to want to just change everything.

Speaker 2 And so yeah, that was,

Speaker 2 I think that was the turning point for me.

Speaker 2 You know, that time that I spent

Speaker 2 in juvenile was just really, it was just really eye-opening. And I didn't really enjoy it.
I hated every bit of it.

Speaker 2 And I was just, you know, I think I just

Speaker 2 was so focused on wanting to be much better than I was.

Speaker 2 And I think it goes back again to just the values that my aunt and uncle really instilled in me growing up, you know, despite my challenges I went through, knowing that I could really create a life better for myself regardless of where I came from.

Speaker 1 So, well, I think it's so poignant what you said about the fact that you were reflecting on

Speaker 1 this is where I was born,

Speaker 1 and this is not where I'm going to end up. And my father's story is not going to be my story.

Speaker 1 And it certainly isn't because you went from that courtroom back to high school. You graduated.
You never looked back. You then went to Arkansas Baptist College.
And what did you study there?

Speaker 2 Human services.

Speaker 1 And for people that don't know what that means, what is human services?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so it's mostly, you know,

Speaker 2 I think in a better, broader terms, it's supporting the quality of life and well-being of people, whether that's through

Speaker 2 economics,

Speaker 2 civil, social practices of uplifting people.

Speaker 2 So the work that I do, obviously, right, is supporting

Speaker 2 people to getting access to mental health services

Speaker 2 is

Speaker 2 a clear example of

Speaker 2 what I went to Arkansas Baptist College for. But it could also be

Speaker 2 as well as for, you know, supporting, you know, young people that, you know,

Speaker 2 are, that may be at risk of going into the criminal justice system. Um, so those are just, obviously, just peer examples.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you graduate. And

Speaker 1 what was it like to graduate? You're like, damn, I did it. I'm going to, I'm going to take this photo and send it to that judge and tell her I kept my word.

Speaker 2 It was a, it was an illuminating experience.

Speaker 2 You know, again, I think it was one of those,

Speaker 2 can't believe we made it, you know, can't believe I made it so it was

Speaker 2 and you know again the the people that i grew up around uh the folks that i had went to school with and most of the people just growing up in the urban community in the south you know it was just one or more things you know it was you know either i'm gonna go be an athlete and go to college or you know i'm gonna get lost to the streets and you know, get on some kind of drugs and never make it, or I may not make it at all and I may be dead.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, it was just only a few options. And obviously I wasn't an athlete.
And so,

Speaker 2 you know, and I think the other two options just wasn't favorable.

Speaker 2 So I did everything I could to know going to college. And I really worked hard to

Speaker 2 ensure that I could get my way out of that, you know. And so I'm glad that I was, you know, saw the favorable road to work towards, you know, graduating and getting to this point.

Speaker 1 Well, thank God you did because your organization is now helping over 3 million people a year in terms of mental health advocacy.

Speaker 1 And so let's talk about the fact that right after college, you went and worked with the Department of Human Services. And, you know, I'm outlining your story, Lorenzo, because again,

Speaker 1 you are an example of somebody

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 1 made a decision, who reconnected with his values, who leaned into the struggle, who allowed himself to be vulnerable, and you turned your whole life around.

Speaker 1 And now you're taking all of this and you've turned it into this incredible,

Speaker 1 incredible organization, the, you know, the Confess Project, where you're helping millions of people. And your story and life is an example to all of us,

Speaker 1 that if there is some change you want to make in your life, it is possible to do it and if you are willing to serve others you will be blown away by the difference that you can make and so you're a couple years into your career you're working at the Department of Health and Human Services and you start to notice that your colleagues

Speaker 1 who were working with, you know, youth and who were working with people that needed help kept saying, I wish I could reach them. I wish I I could get through to these kids.
I wish I could like help.

Speaker 1 I wish I could do this. And they kept saying, I'm just not getting through.

Speaker 1 The therapists, the trained professionals, the psychologists that were, quote, in the system at the Department of Human Services,

Speaker 1 this is what inspired you to do something about it. So, can you talk to us about the actual

Speaker 1 inspiration

Speaker 1 that you had that made you go, aha, the therapists and psychologists don't get it, but I do. And this is what I'm going to do.

Speaker 2 You know, it was countless conversations that I had working with,

Speaker 2 you know, different patients that was coming in and out of the hospital at the time. I mostly worked in a hospital setting for the most part.
So, you know, they was there from seven to 14 day stay.

Speaker 2 But every day I interacted with, you know, folks from all different walks of life, whether they was someone that was coming out of the justice system to a teacher to an attorney, depending on wherever they may have been in life,

Speaker 2 they was going through some kind of

Speaker 2 emotional challenge that they was there getting treatment.

Speaker 1 So were you working in like an inpatient ward for a hospital that was providing mental health services for somebody who was having a breakdown? Yes.

Speaker 1 So in other words, Lorenzo, you were a human being with angel wings on your back that was caring for people in a really low place. And so he's like, okay, he's sitting there.

Speaker 1 Just imagine this, everybody. He's sitting there with his angel wings on his back and his college degree tucked under his arm.
And he's here to serve.

Speaker 1 And he's got people of all walks of life coming into this hospital system in Arkansas. And you started to notice something.
What did you notice?

Speaker 2 That everybody was really human, first and foremost. That people,

Speaker 2 no matter what they had accomplished and where they was planning on heading, that we all could face challenges but i also think one of the things that really stood out is that everyone had a unique story and situation that set them apart but even as you began to get across ethnicity people of color it even became more interesting to how they were really being supported um in this system that i worked in meaning they were not being supported correct not being supported not um a lot of it was

Speaker 2 a lot of the patients would be with what i would call return folks they would come back and forth a lot of them would be like oh this is just pointless and you know it just it just it didn't seem like there was a lot of purpose um and the one reason that i really resonated because i had been to a similar place

Speaker 2 so i knew

Speaker 2 I knew and I could tell

Speaker 2 the sentiments and the emotions that they shared because I had been there as a kid.

Speaker 1 And Lorenzo, what were some of those emotions?

Speaker 2 The key things that I resonated with that they was not

Speaker 2 really feeling honored

Speaker 2 and I believe not really feeling

Speaker 2 not feeling really included. I think that was more the most of, and they're not feeling included because there was people that didn't look like you.

Speaker 1 And this gets to the point of,

Speaker 4 like,

Speaker 1 it is hard to get through to somebody who's struggling when you have no freaking clue what their lived experience is because you are a different race or a different socioeconomic class.

Speaker 1 And it's easier to get through to somebody when you have a lived experience that you can authentically connect with.

Speaker 1 And so what you're highlighting here in your experience, Lorenzo, is you are seeing the impact that it has on the black patient population

Speaker 1 when only 4% of trained and licensed mental health professionals are black.

Speaker 1 That if you don't see yourself represented by the very people that are trying to help you, how on earth could the people that are trying to help you get better understand what the fuck you're going through?

Speaker 1 And so that's what you started to see day in and day out. That's what you felt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I believe a lot of times when we don't trust people that

Speaker 2 most of the time if it's people that we can't we feel like that don't you know resonate with our life experiences that may not look like who we are or come from where we are that can create a barrier to access to mental health services in general but I think it's even a step further when

Speaker 2 sometimes the compassion and the

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 humanity is not present in regards of how we connect with people about how they feel.

Speaker 2 And so I think that, you know, that in itself can create distrust. Also, I think just historically, you know, there are just,

Speaker 2 you know, there's many challenges in, you know, communities of color and how we don't trust, you know, white medical providers or we may not trust people with, you know, that's an authority, right?

Speaker 2 And so these things can really create

Speaker 2 a ladder of distrust for people getting services and getting the help that they need because some of it is tied to, you know,

Speaker 2 hurt and anguish that's that's been, you know, kind of boiling over years to come. So

Speaker 1 I want to bring this saying that I learned from my really good friend, Ed Millet. I just love this because I think that this is what your life demonstrates.
Ed told me, Mel,

Speaker 1 you are best equipped to help the person you used to be,

Speaker 1 which means we are all equipped to help someone.

Speaker 1 And what you saw in your mid-20s, and this is why I admire you so much, you saw in your mid-20s a problem.

Speaker 1 You saw people that you used to be struggling and not enough people in the leadership and the therapy positions.

Speaker 1 actually in an ability to serve them at a deep level because they did not look like these folks. They did not relate to the experiences they were struggling with.
They did not understand

Speaker 1 that racism creates complex PTSD.

Speaker 1 They didn't get any of it. And so

Speaker 1 you decided to do something about it.

Speaker 1 And, you know, for you listening to Lorenzo and I today, I so wanted you to hear Lorenzo's story because we all sit around and think like, well, I don't have a degree.

Speaker 1 I don't like, I need somebody's permission. I'm not qualified to do that.

Speaker 1 And what Lorenzo

Speaker 1 is doing by training barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates and support

Speaker 1 from the chair up into communities, reaching millions and millions of people every year is he is basically proving that excuse is complete bullshit.

Speaker 1 I am not a licensed therapist, and yet this is probably one of the biggest podcasts that talks about mental health issues on the planet.

Speaker 1 You are best equipped to help the person you used to be. How did you go, okay, I got it.
I got to do something. I got it.
Barbershops. How did you go?

Speaker 1 I'm going to train barbers and beauticians all across the country to learn how to

Speaker 1 spot mental health challenges. I'm going to learn, I'm going to train them to be advocates.
What the hell gave you this idea, Lorenzo?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, honestly, you know, considering our conversation about, you know, my journey, working in the system,

Speaker 2 it really started at first as

Speaker 2 I did my first mental health event at a church, a black church, prominently African-American church in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Speaker 2 And it was a blast.

Speaker 2 I had never organized an event. I mean, I think we had several hundred people.
It was like a back-to-school event, but we centered around mental health.

Speaker 2 And this brought a lot of community leaders out. It was great.
I was led from that. I think I did a couple of other like town hall events.

Speaker 2 And I was like, okay, this is

Speaker 2 interesting.

Speaker 2 And I really was able to go out and get support.

Speaker 2 But one of the things that led me to something that obviously now that we do quite a bit as we fundraise to continue continue this work is going out telling my story and what interests what why is this important and and I was able to garner a lot of support even just from family and friends and that really kind of struck a chord to say that I think I'm on to something right

Speaker 2 and as I began to do that

Speaker 2 some of those events when we started to get more specific about what we want to reach men

Speaker 2 a lot of men wouldn't come out we would host them at local libraries and we would like you know know, use some kind of multi-purpose event room and no men would show up.

Speaker 1 All the women who want their men to get mental health will show up. Yes.

Speaker 1 Now, now talk to everybody about why men are not showing up because this is where there's the accessibility piece, which is

Speaker 1 the access to licensed and trained people.

Speaker 1 That is what you're trying to solve by training people that are barbers and beauticians first to be mental health advocates.

Speaker 1 But then there's this vulnerability piece where admitting that you've got some sort of mental health challenge or admitting that you might need help or even thinking about it makes you weak. And so

Speaker 1 talk a little bit about how big of a challenge this is, because this is really the heart of your mission.

Speaker 1 You are really trying to reach men and boys first and foremost in in the black community with the Confess Project.

Speaker 2 Well, one of the huge challenges is,

Speaker 2 honestly, is manhood. I think it's just the ideology of manhood to each man can look different, but I will say across lines, it's complex and it's very similar.

Speaker 2 complexities across lines across all men. And then when you get down to talking about black men, when you consider race and socioeconomic class, and

Speaker 2 I think you even get into a grander challenge around how men view themselves and how they outwardly can be vulnerable.

Speaker 2 And so because, you know, being strong and most of the time growing up with mothers and no fathers in the home and just, you know, it can be.

Speaker 2 Those can in itself can be some characteristics that can make it very challenging. I think you even go beyond that is just start to think about, well, what does media display?

Speaker 2 What happens, you know, what does hip-hop artist display? How does the songs and the you know, the thing, the people that we follow?

Speaker 2 How do, you know, that's so grateful for people like Charlamagne the God and different folks who have came out to make mental health a champion opportunity

Speaker 2 because that just didn't really exist when I was coming up as much as a young black man. It just didn't.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I'm glad to see that that's obviously, you know, I'm looking to encourage more men to thinking about how this is important because of the work that we do.

Speaker 2 But that's a big part of it. I believe one of the hugest challenges is the cultural connection behind mental health.
And then that goes to the accessibility of mental health services.

Speaker 2 So in real terms,

Speaker 2 culturally, our community has not been conditioned to understand that mental health is equally as important as is your physical health or your financial health and even your well-being.

Speaker 2 Like we've disconnected in most ways that our mental health is separate from anything else when it's actually a huge part of who we are every day.

Speaker 2 And so I believe that's one of the hugest disconnects. And I believe that's a cultural challenge because

Speaker 2 our leaders,

Speaker 2 our medical system is not the only ones who's truly responsible for this.

Speaker 2 I believe this is something that goes across our public and civic leaders, churches, and more people should be encouraging that mental health is truly a part of who we are every day.

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 2 and I think

Speaker 2 that probably would be probably my greatest feedback for that part.

Speaker 1 So, Lorenzo, what is your definition of vulnerability? And what does that look like to be vulnerable in your everyday life?

Speaker 2 I think at the core of this, what I do know at the core of vulnerability is really being totally transparent, but also recognizing to be transparent about you're still evolving in your journey of vulnerability as well.

Speaker 2 And I think it helps to show that to your child or young people or people, whoever you're actually interfacing, because we're all still a work in progress when it comes to being fully transparent.

Speaker 2 And mostly because, you know, culturally, we just haven't been programmed to believe that being open is really being the new sexy, right?

Speaker 2 And so I think that, you know, by modeling this, it's by really being in authenticity, really recognizing that you're still learning and growing through this as well. And that while doing so,

Speaker 2 you know, we're just, we're taking a step further to ultimately reach,

Speaker 2 you know, that broader staircase of success around vulnerability. And I think that that's just,

Speaker 2 but really having to share those nuggets along the journey is really going to be helpful as well and that's one thing with the confess project we're focused on how do we

Speaker 2 erase barriers to stigma and shame completely and I think it starts by utilizing you know culture and starting to

Speaker 1 utilize vulnerability I think is a huge part of it you know I read that for every thousand barbers and beauticians that go through your four-step training process in terms of the skills that you're teaching them to be mental health advocates, you're reaching a million people.

Speaker 1 That's incredible.

Speaker 1 You're reaching 3 million people a year by training barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates as they are listening. to their clients who are sitting in their chair.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 And what does the training look like? There are four parts to it, and I would love for you to explain it because these four parts are things that we can all learn how to do for people in our lives.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. So the four parts to the training is active listening,

Speaker 2 validation, positive communication, and stigma reduction. It is a four-point formula that I like to call it that

Speaker 2 therapeutically is used in some and a lot of therapeutic sessions with therapists and patients.

Speaker 2 But it is, we utilize it in an advocacy

Speaker 2 space in regards to how barbers and stylists can help their clients by

Speaker 2 using these tools as they're cutting hair.

Speaker 2 So it is, you know, a perfect example. It's a conversation that they're having with their client every week about how's life going, how's work going.

Speaker 2 But they can lean in and use these skills if that client is through a challenge at home or at work.

Speaker 2 And they are able to listen better. They're able to, you know, communicate in a positive way.

Speaker 2 They're able to reduce stigma and uplift mental health and embrace it more or less than saying, you know, hey, you shouldn't worry about that. Or hey, just pray about it.
It's going to be okay.

Speaker 2 And really be able to use these skills as a promotive way, a promotion of promoting a healthy mental health and emotional journey in their mental health journey, particularly. So it's really a,

Speaker 2 I always like to say it's the perfect way of doing a grooming session, making someone feel good on the outside and in the inside.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that.

Speaker 2 You know, when we've, you know, worked with these barbers and provided the training and support, it's really empowered them individually, probably just as much as it has empowered their clients.

Speaker 2 And I think that's something that's very important because as we empower them to be their best self, it really helps to connect with the broader audience in the community because that's really the purpose of the actual training is that if we can reach someone, you know, reach them, that they can reach other people and those people can reach even more people in their household and their communities.

Speaker 2 It can really become a ripple effect. And so I feel like that in itself has been an impact.

Speaker 1 Let's just say somebody comes in, I plop down in the chair,

Speaker 1 and you're my barber, and I'm having a hard day.

Speaker 1 What do you do as the barber that is part of the Confess Project?

Speaker 2 So it, you know, it can lead us, hey, you know,

Speaker 2 I noticed that your day is going hard.

Speaker 2 Man, I know, you know, you was here last week. You know, what's going on?

Speaker 2 How's everything? You know, how can I be supportive?

Speaker 2 In this moment, you know, you are

Speaker 2 actively listening to their feedback that they may have given you.

Speaker 2 You're also showing that you can communicate in a positive way. But you're also, even just by those few words,

Speaker 2 you're even starting to validate them. And so maybe their next response is, man, I'm having a hard time at work.
I'm about to lose my job. I'm behind on my bills.
And, you know, it could even go to,

Speaker 2 you know, I understand that you're going through this. And, you know, I'm with you here in this moment.
You know, I'm compassionate.

Speaker 2 We also provide the barbers barbers with resources in regards to how they can support individuals that may need housing, that may need, you know,

Speaker 2 sign up for healthcare. So outside of the training that we offer, they're also, we provide a resource directory to each barbershop to be able to help people with,

Speaker 2 whether that's getting employment or whether that's just general resources, you know, whether that's bill pay, you know, so outside of, because we recognize that mental health can be impacted by people's daily walking lives.

Speaker 1 Oh, of course. Like I was just thinking about that example.
I'm about to lose my job. That's a situation that causes anxiety.

Speaker 1 And if you start to spiral in your head, you're not going to be able to problem solve and to get ahead of it and to be proactive.

Speaker 1 You're going to get trapped in your thoughts and you're going to feel ashamed.

Speaker 1 And, you know, one of the things that I found as we were preparing for this interview is that we pulled our audience of more than 5 million people.

Speaker 1 And I was really,

Speaker 1 sadly not surprised that roughly one out of every five people that responded to some questions that we put up on Instagram said there was no one,

Speaker 1 not one person that they felt like they could go to.

Speaker 1 And when we asked them to name Lorenzo, the quality of the person that they could talk to,

Speaker 1 the same word kept coming up over and over and over again, non-judgmental, non-judgmental. And I think when you think about training your barber,

Speaker 1 your hairstylist, your beautician in these skills of active listening, of validating, of leaning in, of asking questions, what's going on? How can I help you?

Speaker 1 You know, it's normal to struggle, but, you know, you can't let the worry get you down.

Speaker 1 You might want to call call this number and get some help so that like when you train somebody just to do those small things,

Speaker 1 you're training people to help in a non-judgmental way. And I think one of the reasons why we confess so much to our

Speaker 1 hairdressers, I mean, I know I do. She knows more about me than my therapist for crying out loud, is because I just kind of feel like it's not going to go anywhere and that she's not judging me.

Speaker 1 And that's what you've found too. In fact,

Speaker 1 the Confess Project has participated in this big study at Harvard Medical School. Can you tell everybody a little bit about that study and what you found by

Speaker 1 training and amplifying this incredible group of barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so there was 32 barbers who participated across eight states in the Harvard research study, and it lasted for about eight to nine months. It was very interesting.

Speaker 2 Barbara's was honestly uber excited.

Speaker 2 It was started off as not as exciting because you have a large institution coming in, wanting to

Speaker 2 talk with people about mental health. But I relatively say that it was...
it was an exciting opportunity.

Speaker 2 One of the things that we really recognized early as the study became about, and even as it's now published, recently we've been publishing an international journal to really show the the great work that happened but barbers

Speaker 2 are shown to be mental health and suicide prevention gatekeepers

Speaker 2 and also can be an aid to help decrease interpersonal community violence as well

Speaker 2 But also something we saw in the research is that women barbers and stylists are just as instrumental because they are a great connection to children and their mental health.

Speaker 2 And it's even to say, as well, the study revealed that this framework that we have can be beneficial to even domestic violence.

Speaker 2 So it was many, many, and that's just kind of high-level

Speaker 2 high-level results that we got out of it.

Speaker 2 And that goes along to also say that, you know, the Confessed Project,

Speaker 2 you know, 90% of our barbers that have participated rather receive therapy in a barbershop rather than going to a clinic.

Speaker 1 Now, why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 Comfortability, honestly. And I believe,

Speaker 2 you know, the cultural component.

Speaker 2 And I think even environmental.

Speaker 2 You know, who, you know, is again, we go back to the stigma and shame of mental health going to see a, which some of our barbers say, I don't want to go see a shrink inside,

Speaker 2 you know, in a clinic. And so I think it's the culture.

Speaker 1 But now you're bringing in the training. Yeah.
And so one of the things that's so fascinating about this is that people go back to their barber or their beautician over and over.

Speaker 1 And so this relationship develops, and you see somebody, and you tell your barber and your beautician everything. And so

Speaker 1 I would imagine

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 it's like the perfect

Speaker 1 opportunity to really

Speaker 1 give people support,

Speaker 1 especially at a moment in time, Lorenzo, where people feel so lonely, they feel isolated. Most people don't have the resources to hire a therapist or a mental health professional.

Speaker 1 And you are providing this kind of service and intervention right at the chair. And the people in the chair don't even realize it.
I mean, this is incredible.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And I think it's just,

Speaker 2 you know, we're glad that obviously barbers and stylists have been seen as cultural assets, as community leaders, and glad that we're now helping them to use their assets in a greater way around

Speaker 2 supporting people,

Speaker 2 supporting their mental health, supporting their well-being, because we know when one's mental health is great, their well-being and who they are as a person will shine even better.

Speaker 1 Can you give us just a couple examples of how barbers and beauticians that have gone through this training have made a difference already in small ways and big ways?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so, you know, we've had, you know, barbers and stylists that has went through this program to, you know, for them own selves, to

Speaker 2 to check themselves into a rehab,

Speaker 2 to, you know, build a stronger relationship with their children, build stronger relationships better in their marriages,

Speaker 2 but all the way enough more to help save someone from taking their life by suicide

Speaker 2 and dying by suicide rather. And so we've seen it at the very most minimal state of relationship, better boundaries, better health, better well-being, to saving lives.

Speaker 2 And so that's how impactful this training that they're using that's tied around active listening and how to communicate better, how to reduce one, reduce stigma around mental health, but also how to get someone to help that may be in a crisis.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, it's true. Like if you think about even some of the little day-to-day struggles that people face, Lorenzo, we don't talk about it.

Speaker 1 But if you're sitting in the barber's chair and you're kind of looking at yourself and this person that you know is behind you and they're touching you and they're like, how's your day going?

Speaker 1 you tend to start to spill the beans. And so sometimes the difference between you

Speaker 1 like just drowning in heartache over a breakup or you not knowing what to do about a kid of yours that's struggling in school.

Speaker 1 Like the difference can be made by one person listening and making a suggestion that makes you start to feel like you could do something or this is a resource that you could call.

Speaker 1 And you through the Confess Project are training barbers and beauticians to do that for people. That's extraordinary.

Speaker 1 So do you go to schools or like, cause, cause cause I also wonder, what's it like to walk into a room full of barbers? They all got their arms crossed. They're standing there.

Speaker 1 They're like, oh, God, what's this dude doing?

Speaker 1 And you're going in to do mental health advocacy training.

Speaker 1 Are people receptive? Do you have to win them over? I mean, I realize now you're really a big shot. So people know about the project and you're reaching millions of people.

Speaker 1 But was it hard in the beginning to to get people to see the connection?

Speaker 2 It was. It was.
It was incredibly hard. And I think one of the reasons is because,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 the stigma of mental health, I'll go back to that again. I think, you know,

Speaker 2 we got a lot of kickback early on, you know, before we started getting support by, you know, Gillette and working with, you know,

Speaker 2 you know, corporations, you know, and being supported by people like Andis Clippers and, you know, really being able to create,

Speaker 2 I say street credibility in the barber world and really create

Speaker 2 a cultural connection.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 we struggled with, I think, getting people to get on board. And it took a while, but I think,

Speaker 2 you know, I think the most apprehensive thing in the beginning was we don't know who you are and we don't know how this is going to work in our establishment.

Speaker 2 And so I think it was just, honestly, just finding a few barbers that was committed at first,

Speaker 2 using that as a testimonial, and then

Speaker 2 taking that on the road and just saying, hey, they did it. Can you do it too? Can you do it?

Speaker 2 And so it just became repetition. And before you know it, it just became a

Speaker 2 thing that just exists now in the industry.

Speaker 2 We go to barber expos, major events all over the country.

Speaker 1 You're sponsored by Gillette. You got all these corporate sponsors now helping out.
Like, this is

Speaker 1 so freaking inspiring. How long did you keep your corporate job with the Department of Health and Human Services while you did this on the side until it became your full-time thing?

Speaker 2 Very minimal.

Speaker 2 I literally...

Speaker 2 I became so infused with this

Speaker 2 after I got my degree.

Speaker 2 I worked in the hospital sitting for a while. And I just had this this significant, I need to leave work.
I think I left with a very minimal savings. I knew I would run out of money.

Speaker 2 I had a very young daughter at the time.

Speaker 1 It was your wife like you're crazy.

Speaker 1 You're keeping that job. Because that's what I said to my husband when he was going to quit his job to pursue his dream.
I'm like, no, you're not.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so, you know, I just, you know, it was very, a lot of,

Speaker 2 really had to struggle a lot to build this in the beginning but I knew that I needed to do it full-time and I'm so glad that I did Mel because when I look back on it now it's really the reason that it has flourished because I was able to do I mean I for we've been doing this now for seven years and I've been like locked focus on everything we've accomplished more that I think we would have we probably accomplished more than it would have took us 10 years to do if I had have done it at a slower pace.

Speaker 2 But when you really think about the mental health crisis, when you think about the suicide crisis on young people, the suicide crisis on black men between the ages of 24 and knowing that that's the third leading cause of death, this was nothing we could really take lightly or take slowly.

Speaker 2 And I think that's what always drove me was knowing that this is a crisis issue and we have to solve the problem.

Speaker 1 That's the difference between a career and a calling. Yes.
You have a calling. Yes.
And I'm glad you answered the call. Yes.
Tell me about the

Speaker 1 difference that the confessed project made

Speaker 1 when somebody came in and said it was going to be their last haircut and they were suicidal.

Speaker 2 It was a game changer and that story was out of

Speaker 2 Johnson City, Tennessee.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the barber had been you know, working with that client, I'm just going to assume for a period of time.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you know, he was going through some challenges

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 you know he said he didn't want a beard any longer

Speaker 2 but so happily in that scenario he was able to get help because two weeks prior to that we had been in Tennessee doing a training had brought therapists and we like to invite therapists to those trainings or we connect with therapists in local communities that connect them with barbershops

Speaker 2 and he was able to get help now same story different city Philadelphia south side of Philadelphia, very same situation. Guy walks in a barbershop and said, I'm not, I don't want to live any longer.

Speaker 2 I'm going to walk out in traffic and I'm going to take my life. Had never met the barbers.
This was a story that we was told after we provided the training.

Speaker 2 Like, man, I wish you guys had been here last year.

Speaker 2 I did this.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it just shows that when we provide that support, what can happen? And this guy, particularly in Philadelphia, went missing. He had a psychotic episode.

Speaker 2 The barbers didn't know what to do. They was sick and worried that, you know, he had took his life.
So happily, he was found, but they didn't have the skills and the tools to react.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think we all know, because I could imagine some people listening right now as, well, why wouldn't you just call the police? Well, I'll tell you why.
First of all,

Speaker 1 in a lot of communities,

Speaker 1 there is no trust with the police. Secondly,

Speaker 1 having police officers show up when it should be mental health professionals showing up in a situation like that.

Speaker 1 And we also know that legally you can't take somebody into custody for mental health services unless they are an immediate harm to themselves in that moment. And so you,

Speaker 1 there is a big hole.

Speaker 1 And so knowing how to talk to somebody, knowing how to lean in and listen, knowing how to validate, and then knowing how to do what the Confessed Project Barbers did in Tennessee after your training, which was to support this person in a very low moment and connect them with services that got them the support and the help that they needed, that's exactly

Speaker 1 the right approach. And you created it.
What does it feel like, Lorenzo,

Speaker 1 to know that

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 1 saved that guy's life?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, it's, I'm glad that we took the risk.

Speaker 2 And the reason why I say the risk,

Speaker 2 this model had,

Speaker 2 to be honest, had never really been done before.

Speaker 2 When we first started, we had no data, we had no blueprint. It was just really something that was inside of my head,

Speaker 2 my lived experiences, but it was also filled with a lot of hope. And again, like you said, a calling.

Speaker 2 And, you know, know,

Speaker 2 it just leaves me to be grateful that we did take the risk to actually implement something that we know the world really needed in this moment. And I think even moving forward.

Speaker 2 And so it just fulfills me to know that, you know, I'm glad that I was able to be,

Speaker 2 you know, that we were able to really advance this forward.

Speaker 2 I think regardless of the challenges that we faced over the years of kind of putting this together, because

Speaker 2 it has been a really rocky road. I think anytime you're dealing with community-related work and, you know,

Speaker 2 really trying to get, you know, move people across a certain cause, it could, you know, just, it takes time and it could be a lot of challenges.

Speaker 2 But I believe we've gotten to a place where we know that this is something that's appreciated and is obviously that's very much needed. So.

Speaker 1 And working. So what's your vision for the next 10 years?

Speaker 2 You know, honestly, at this point, you know, it's to expand this model as far as we can take it.

Speaker 2 We have done this same training with first responders. We've done this training with law enforcement, educators, counselors.

Speaker 2 My deepest imagination is that we can impact all walks of life, all different kinds of people all across the world.

Speaker 2 But, you know, we recognize we recently formed a started a virtual, this really cool and new virtual training that really gives the users,

Speaker 2 rather than training like super users, people to use this to train other people across multiple places and really multiply ourselves more.

Speaker 2 We've really formed a

Speaker 2 new product that's going to allow us to really scale bigger. My goal is that this can go across the world and really impact more people than what we've been able to impact here in the United States.

Speaker 2 And so that's why I was so glad about being here because of the reach that I know this podcast has and

Speaker 2 just the impact that I know what the world, when people find out about these things, it can really reach a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Well, there's no doubt in my mind that you will get it done.

Speaker 1 Lorenzo, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 Lorenzo Lewis, everybody, the Confess Project, we will be linking to everything so that you can check it out and you can introduce it to the salons and the first responders in your neighborhood.

Speaker 1 And we'll provide all the resources as well to the training that we all could be using. Because I love this thing that I read that you said: look,

Speaker 1 you know, when you get CPR training, it's so you can keep somebody alive when the EMTs arrive.

Speaker 1 And this Confess project helps keep people alive

Speaker 1 and keep them going until the professional help arrives.

Speaker 1 Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. No, thank you all.
Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Speaker 1 My pleasure. I told you you would love him.
I told you you would feel inspired. I bet you've got all kinds of ideas turning in your head.
Now I want you to do something about it.

Speaker 1 I want you to take a step forward. That's why I invited Lorenzo on, because

Speaker 1 I know that you can make a difference and you don't need permission. You don't need to be asked.
You are in the best position to serve the person that you used to be. Remember that and go do it.

Speaker 1 And in case nobody else tells you, I want to remind you that I love you. I believe in you.
I am here for you every step of the way. And I know you got what it takes to create the life that you love.

Speaker 1 Now get out there and go do it. And I'll talk to you in a few days.

Speaker 1 That was that chicken garlic situation.

Speaker 1 Whew, you're not kidding. We might need to clean this mic.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 4 I think I need to, am I, oh, I am in control. Am I in control?

Speaker 1 Here, let me, let me be in control. How do I do this? I go to Slack.

Speaker 1 Boom. Oh, no, that's it.
Nope, that's that. Okay, we're going in a Zoom meeting that I don't want to go in right now.
Okay. Oh, is it in chat? I can hit it in chat if it's there.
There it is.

Speaker 1 There she is.

Speaker 1 Okay. And then I'm going to pop this up.
Hold on one sec.

Speaker 1 Okay. Thank you.
Here we go. All right.
Let me do that one more time. Oh, where do you want to go next?

Speaker 1 Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

Speaker 1 This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

Speaker 1 I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it?

Speaker 2 Good.

Speaker 1 I'll see you in the next episode.

Speaker 1 Stitcher.

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