5 Ways to Improve Your Breathing for Better Health With the #1 Breath Expert in the World

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 1 I'm normally really excited about what you and I talk about here on the podcast, but today I am so jacked up because I just read this book called The Breathing Cure.

Speaker 1 It is by this dude named Patrick McCune. And I

Speaker 1 am still recovering from what I learned because I basically discovered that for 54 years, I have been breathing wrong. I am what scientists refer to as a mouth breather.

Speaker 1 And I'm not supposed to be. And neither are you, by the way.
You and I are supposed to be nose breathers. Why?

Speaker 1 Well, because breathing in and out of your nose, it improves your health, your focus, your sleep, it improves your mood, it reduces your anxiety.

Speaker 1 I'm so blown away by this research that I fast-track this author and the world's leading expert on breath to come teach you and me everything we need to know. And this is not going to be a lecture.

Speaker 1 I will slow him down and I'm going to ask him to walk us through breathing exercises so we can learn as we're listening.

Speaker 1 But before we welcome him to the show, I want you to just stop and consider how important breathing is.

Speaker 1 You can live without food for weeks. You can live without water for days.
But your breath,

Speaker 1 you can't go without it for more than just a few minutes. Your breath is the through line.
of your whole life.

Speaker 1 From the very first breath that you took when you were born to the very last breath that you'll take on the day that you die.

Speaker 1 And my mission today is to make every single breath that you and I take from this moment forward truly count

Speaker 1 because the science is undeniable. The quality of your breathing determines the quality of your life.

Speaker 1 And I'm just thrilled that today you and I are going to get coached by the world's leading expert on functional breathing for better health. So get ready for more focus, less pain, better sleep.

Speaker 1 Honestly, a better you. It is an honor to introduce you to Patrick McCune, who is a fellow of the Royal Society of Biology in the UK.
His research is widely regarded.

Speaker 1 He's an international best-selling author of 10 books on the science of breathing. He's the founder and CEO of the Oxygen Advantage.

Speaker 1 His techniques are used by Olympic athletes, top business executives, and my personal favorite, the lead singer of Cold Play.

Speaker 1 In his work with our elite military, Patrick teaches snipers how to change mental states and keep a steady hand, which means he can sure as heck teach you and me how to use our breath to stay steady and perform our best in our day-to-day life by simply leveraging your breath.

Speaker 1 Please help me welcome Patrick McCune to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Speaker 2 It's a pleasure. Thanks very much, Mel.
Great to be here.

Speaker 1 Well, I want to start with what might seem like a really stupid question. Can you explain

Speaker 1 the purpose of breathing to all of us?

Speaker 2 Yes, as human beings, what do we survive on? You know, we eat food, we drink water, and we breathe air. And when oxygen meets with the food that we eat, it generates energy.

Speaker 2 So the human organism is fueled by the air that we breathe. And in essence, it's as simple as that.

Speaker 1 Well, what we're going to learn today from you, and one of the reasons why I am so excited to talk to you, is that while breathing is really simple,

Speaker 1 most of us are doing it incorrectly.

Speaker 1 And so I would love to start with, how are we supposed to breathe and what are we doing wrong?

Speaker 2 Yes, it's a good question. And people often talk about the quality of air that we are breathing, you know, be out in the countryside, be at the seaside, don't be breathing polluted air.

Speaker 2 But what about the quantity? What about how we breathe? Breathing is very delicate. It's very susceptible to change.

Speaker 2 It's very susceptible to the food that we eat, the lifestyle that we lead, the trauma, the stress that we experience, the excessive talking, the sedentary lifestyle, you know, the office-based jobs.

Speaker 2 Many factors influence breathing. So, and for some of us, we're more prone to developing poor breathing patterns than others.

Speaker 2 And very often it becomes a habit. And we have to think of it, it's such a vital function.
We can live without air for just a few minutes.

Speaker 2 And the importance of a function is determined by how soon the organism perishes when we switch it off. Breathing should be subtle, it should be light, and breath should be undetectable.

Speaker 2 The perfect person breathes as if they do not breathe. Your breathing should be so smooth that the fine hairs within the nostrils do not move.

Speaker 2 And if you look at the breathing of a healthy person their breathing is nose it's light it's slow and it's low and it's pretty much undetectable and if they do physical exercise their breathing is pretty light for the given intensity of physical exercise they are doing what are we doing wrong well the foundation of breathing is breathing in and out through the nose mal you know when i'm working with with anybody i'll always ask like what does your mouth do when it comes to breathing um i've never really thought about it what does my mouth do when i breathe well doesn't it just

Speaker 1 suck in air?

Speaker 2 If you breathe through your mouth, what part of the body moves? So if you look down at your chest,

Speaker 2 if you take a breath through the mouth,

Speaker 2 and as you breathe through the mouth, you'll notice that your breathing is faster and your breathing is more upper chest.

Speaker 1 Yes, I can't get it down. Like I feel like it stays tight, like just under my boobs.
You know, it's like right in there.

Speaker 2 So, and then we have to ask, well, what effect does that have on the physiology?

Speaker 1 Well, mouth breathing, faster breathing, and upper chest breathing is activating a greater flight or flight response wow so breathing in and out of your mouth it activates a stress response

Speaker 1 whoa

Speaker 2 so how should we be breathing our breathing should be in and out through the nose and there was an american ear nose and throat doctor back in 1976 called dr morris cottle

Speaker 2 C-O-T-T-L-E, and he said that the human nose is responsible for 30 functions in the human body.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 2 And I, yeah, I couldn't find this list. So I wrote my own list of 30 functions.
I could go through them now if you watch.

Speaker 1 I want to hear about some because I think, okay, I smell, I sniff,

Speaker 1 I tend to get very prone to sinus infections and bronchitis and that kind of stuff. So it also gets clogged.
Those are basically the three things that my nose does.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 When you breathe through your nose continuously, oxygen uptake in the blood increases by nearly 10%.

Speaker 2 When you breathe through your nose during physical exercise, the gas carbon dioxide is higher in the blood.

Speaker 2 When carbon dioxide increases and blood pH drops, the red blood cells release oxygen more readily to the tissues and organs.

Speaker 2 So if you, during rest or during physical exercise, breathe in and out through your nose,

Speaker 2 you're going to increase not only oxygen uptake, but also oxygen delivery to the working muscles and tissues and organs, including the brain.

Speaker 1 You said that breathing in and out of your nose increases the the amount of oxygen versus breathing out of your mouth. Why does that matter?

Speaker 2 I think it's very important.

Speaker 2 You know, oxygen is really, it's the fuel for the human being.

Speaker 2 And if, for example, we are not getting enough oxygen delivery to the brain, if there's an insufficient blood flow or oxygen delivery, It can increase brain cell excitability.

Speaker 2 So brain cells become more excitable. We're thinking more.
We're more prone to anxiety. You know, we can influence the blood flow to the brain by changing our breathing patterns.

Speaker 2 And it's not about taking the full big breath.

Speaker 1 That's pretty cool. Can you tell us how else breathing through your nose can help you?

Speaker 2 Other factors that you wouldn't consider are visuospatial awareness. So throughout our evolution, if we, for example, we were in a wide open space, we had to be able to see what was ahead of us.

Speaker 2 but also to scan the environment for predators. And that's higher with nasal breathing versus mouth breathing.
Memory and attention is higher with nose breathing versus mouth breathing.

Speaker 2 There's greater recruitment of the diaphragm. And the diaphragm breathing muscle isn't just for respiration, but it provides stabilization for the spine.

Speaker 2 So 50% of people with lower back pain have dysfunctional breathing.

Speaker 2 And as you breathe through your nose, you spoke about bronchitis. We have to think of the gas called nitric oxide.
And this gas was first discovered in the exhale breath of the human being in 1991.

Speaker 2 This gas is antiviral, it's antibacterial, it redistributes blood throughout the lungs, it helps to open up the airways. So people with respiratory complaints, but people who are prone to COVID.

Speaker 2 You know, when we think of the hundreds of thousands of people with asthma and bronchitis and bronchiectasis and COPD and different respiratory illnesses,

Speaker 2 why are we leaving them breathe through their mouths? And nobody seems to be telling them, breathe through your nose.

Speaker 2 And that was my first, you know, kind of steps into the the whole world of breathing. My own personal journey was having asthma.

Speaker 2 I was a mouth breather for years because if we have inflammation in the lungs, that same inflammation will travel up to your nose.

Speaker 2 And when your nose is stuffy, you're two to three times more likely to have a sleep problem, to snore, to have obstructive sleep apnea. And of course, this then is affecting your mental health.

Speaker 2 This is affecting your concentration. This is affecting your attention span.
Now, you know, I'll talk about even for children. Karen Bonnock is a researcher from the United States.

Speaker 2 And she did a study in Stratford-upon-Avon in the UK, looking at children from age six months to 57 months. So it was over a few years.
She looked at 11,000 British kids.

Speaker 2 Children who were snoring or apneic, having stopping breathing for two breaths or more during sleep, and mouth breathing.

Speaker 2 Those kids, if untreated by age five, had a 40% increased risk of special education needs by age eight. Now, we're not just talking about quality of life.

Speaker 2 we're talking about the lifetime impact of chronic mouth breathing and 25 to 50 percent of studied childhood population mouth breathe. So, Mel, this is a topic that doesn't even come top of the list.

Speaker 2 In actual fact, it doesn't even come on the list. And in the last few years, we've started to see a greater awareness of breathing, and probably because it's too simple.

Speaker 2 But at the same time, breathing is not that simple either.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 love

Speaker 1 absolutely everything that you said.

Speaker 1 And I want to take a gigantic neon yellow highlighter and make sure as you're listening to us, you understand the single biggest takeaway that Patrick has just explained, which is

Speaker 1 if you want to have a change in your health, a change in your stress, a change in the pain that you may feel or the sleep that you cannot cannot get.

Speaker 1 You have a free treasure trove inside your body if you simply start to change from mouth breathing to nose breathing.

Speaker 2 I remember writing a book back in 2010 called Anxiety Free, and I spoke about this paper that was published in 1988.

Speaker 2 And the paper said that the brain by regulating breathing regulates its own excitability. And then I was listening to a podcast by the neuroscientist, Dr.
Andrew Huberman, about two months ago.

Speaker 2 And he cited the exact same statement and sentence. And it's funny how things come around, but this is the importance of breathing and the importance of knowing how to breathe right.

Speaker 2 If, for example, we are breathing the way you described during the introduction,

Speaker 2 and that's kind of the acute panic attack. But say, for example, somebody who's just breathing a little bit faster,

Speaker 2 a little bit harder, upper chest breathing, irregular breathing patterns. And that's present in a minimum of 10% of the general population, but up to 75% of the anxiety and panic disorder population.

Speaker 2 So 75% of the population with anxiety and panic disorder have dysfunctional breathing. It's not just that stress levels change our breathing.

Speaker 2 Of course, when we are stressed, our breathing changes, but...

Speaker 2 Our everyday breathing is feeding into our stress levels. Who doesn't want to be more resilient? And the other thing thing about stress is when we have a lot of mind activity,

Speaker 2 it's impossible to do mindfulness. We have to be absolutely, we have to think of this ourselves.

Speaker 2 The next time that we're having a really bad day and there's a lot of thoughts going through our minds, and I don't suffer from anxiety, but of course, things happen.

Speaker 2 That's the way it is as human beings. I can change my breathing patterns without having to be so aware of my breath.
to help to bring the body and mind into balance.

Speaker 2 And that's the thing about breathing. So coming back to oxygen delivery and blood flow.

Speaker 2 For example, if there's insufficient oxygen, we're more prone to fatigue. We have 50,000 miles of blood vessels throughout the human body, and our breathing is influencing how dilated or not are they.

Speaker 2 And people with poorer breathing are more likely to have cold hands and cold feet. It's not just the blood circulation in the hands and feet that's problem.
It's throughout the body.

Speaker 1 So one of the things that I read on your website and in your books was you said breathing is not just for relaxing.

Speaker 1 It is an incredible tool when you get intentional about how you breathe every day to fight stress.

Speaker 1 And that's exactly what I want to talk about, how we can get intentional about our breathing every day, Patrick. So let's take a quick pause.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm here with Patrick McCune.
He's written 10 books. He's one of the world's leading experts and researchers on the science of breathing.

Speaker 1 And he is going to teach us right now how to stop being a dysfunctional breather and to start breathing in a functional way in and out of your nose so that you can get the maximum health benefit.

Speaker 1 Okay, Patrick, take it away.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So the first exercise that I'm going to start off with is small little breath holes.

Speaker 2 And this is going to introduce you to a means of helping to activate a relaxation response. And then from that, I'm going to show you an exercise to decongest the nose.
Oh, great.

Speaker 2 Because if you have a stuffy nose, inevitably it's going to cause mouth breathing.

Speaker 2 And then I will do breathe light and then breathe low and slow. Okay.
So I'm going to go from one sequence into another. And this can be, it will be no more than five minutes.

Speaker 2 And we're going to cover a bit of ground. So I think people will have to replay this.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's do this.
And for those of you driving,

Speaker 1 Just focus on breathing in and out of your nose low and slow as you're listening to these exercises, because I don't want you to take your hands off the wheel or your attention off the road.

Speaker 1 You can always come back to this when you're not driving, or you can watch this on YouTube as well when you get back home. All righty, Patrick, let's go.

Speaker 1 That first exercise you were talking about was about holding your breath. You called it breathing holds, and you said we're going to do this in order to activate a relaxation response.
I'm game.

Speaker 1 Let's go.

Speaker 2 So, the first exercise, Mel, that that I would like you to do when the mind is racing and you're not feeling informed of focusing on your breathing, simply hold your breath in an exhalation.

Speaker 2 Take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose and pinch your nose and hold. And hold for five, four, three,

Speaker 1 two,

Speaker 2 one. Let go.
And just breathe normal now for about two to three breaths or even four breaths.

Speaker 2 Not to change your breathing, just breathing normal.

Speaker 2 And again, take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose and pinch your nose and hold. Five, four,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 two,

Speaker 2 one, let go. And now just breathe normal for three to four breaths.
So you're just breathing normal.

Speaker 2 The small breath hold will help to stimulate the vagus nerve, which secretes a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which causes the heart rate to slow down and the brain interprets that the body is safe.

Speaker 2 And again, take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose and pinch your nose and hold.

Speaker 2 Five, four,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 two,

Speaker 2 one. Let go, breathe in through your nose.
So now you're just breathing normal for three to four breaths.

Speaker 2 And then a couple of repetitions, and I will show you how to go from this to decongesting your nose. And again, normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose.

Speaker 2 And pinch your nose and hold.

Speaker 2 Five, four,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 two,

Speaker 2 one. Let go and breathe in through your nose.
Also, as you hold your breath, nitric oxide is pooling inside your nasal airway.

Speaker 2 Then when you let go you're breathing in. You're carrying this nitric oxide into your lungs.
Nitric oxide is antibacterial, antiviral. It's a bronchodilator.

Speaker 2 So for bronchitis, this is your natural way to help open up the lower airways. Last one.
And again, normal breath in through your nose, out through your nose. Pinch your nose and hold.
Five, four,

Speaker 1 three,

Speaker 2 two,

Speaker 2 one. Let go.

Speaker 1 Can I ask you a question?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 when you say breathe normally,

Speaker 1 you mean not like how we normally breathe. You mean breathe in and out of your nose, right? Correct.
Okay. Correct.

Speaker 2 Well, that's how we should be.

Speaker 1 Well, I just, you know, most of us are probably mouth breathers.

Speaker 1 So I just wanted to make sure everybody's getting the coaching that when he's cueing us to breathe normal, Patrick means in and out of your nose. And one thing I will tell you is

Speaker 1 even after the first round of breathing in and out of my nose, then pinching and holding for five,

Speaker 1 I started to feel almost that sensation of going down in an elevator. Like you really start to feel the pressure that you're not even aware that is built up in your body start to lower.

Speaker 1 So it had an immediate impact on me.

Speaker 2 That exercise is very much an exercise we do with people who are prone to high stress, racing mind, panic disorder.

Speaker 2 See, the thing about breathing is every time that we get into a difficult situation, our breathing changes. And

Speaker 2 when we start playing with the breath, we can often relive the situations in our history. So I'll give you this example.
Somebody who's coming into me with panic disorder.

Speaker 2 Every time that they've had a panic attack in in the past, they've been breathing faster and harder in upper chest and they're feeling suffocated.

Speaker 2 Now, even just placing attention on their breathing can make them anxious.

Speaker 2 And if I start doing any breathing exercises that alter the volume of breathing and it brings on air hunger, it can tip them into a panic.

Speaker 2 So we have to be very careful too about breathing in terms of tailoring the breathing exercises to suit the individual.

Speaker 2 Now, the next exercise, I'm going to show you how to go from this to decongesting your nose.

Speaker 2 So now we're going to go on to the nose unblocking exercise. However, not to do this if somebody is prone to panic disorder or anxiety or pregnant or cardiovascular issues.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 Now, despite that, it's actually relatively safe. So with this exercise, Mel, you take a normal breath in through your nose.

Speaker 2 and out through your nose and you pinch your nose just gently hold your nose and just nod your head up and down holding your breath and keep holding your breath keep holding keep holding keep holding your breath keep holding and let go there and breathe in through your nose

Speaker 2 so when you do a breath hold after an exhalation so if you hold your breath after a normal exhalation

Speaker 2 that will help to decongest the nose now we need to do it five or six times Now you could simply breathe in and out through your nose, hold your nose and jump up and down on one leg.

Speaker 2 It's movement associated with the breath hold that helps to open up the nose.

Speaker 1 I got worried about how much you were counting. I'm like, how long am I holding this? Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 So, whenever you're ready, take a normal breath in through your nose. Only normal, so I'm going to have to just do that again.
So, remember about the subtlety of the breath. Just a light breath in.

Speaker 1 Patrick, there's nothing subtle about me. Here we go.
A light breath in, everybody.

Speaker 2 A light breath into your nose. And a light breath out through your nose.
And just gently hold your nostrils.

Speaker 2 Stop breathing and nod your head up and down as you hold your breath

Speaker 2 and keep relaxing into the body as you're holding your breath now it's a very normal thing to hold your breath kids if they go swimming they'll do breath holds all the time now as you hold your breath here it's activating a slight stress response which will help to open up the nose and now let go mel and breathe in through your nose So the key to help decongesting the nose is to hold the breath for at least 30 seconds or so.

Speaker 2 But I would say when you start off, always start off gentle and just tune in on how is your body reacting to breath tolling.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you what just happened. I literally feel like my nostrils are now the size of a Tootsie roll.

Speaker 1 They widened up and all of a sudden it was super clear because my allergies are starting to kick in and it worked.

Speaker 1 That second time in particular, like,

Speaker 2 it's a very reproducible technique. I've used it with thousands of people.
And we had a small pilot study involving 26 people at a hospital here in Limerick, in Ireland.

Speaker 2 And a three-month follow-up, symptoms of rhinitis, which are stuffy nose and runny nose, et cetera, had reduced by 70%.

Speaker 2 But I thought that pilot study, which was published as an abstract, I thought it would lead the way to generate some curiosity into a bigger study. It never happened.

Speaker 2 That study took place 10 years ago. But despite that, the exercise works.
Well, it's for people to try.

Speaker 1 We're here now, and I felt like it worked. And this is, again, I have so many elementary questions that I'm almost embarrassed to ask this one.

Speaker 2 Well, please do.

Speaker 1 What coaching do you have for people that are so used to mouth breathing

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 breathing in and out of their nose is just, it just feels weird. How do you make this the new default, given the health benefits?

Speaker 2 So there's two parts to it. People have to understand about the importance of nose breathing.
And in comparison to the mouth, the nose does all the work when it comes to breathing.

Speaker 2 And the second aspect of it then is breathing exercises.

Speaker 2 gentle exercises, you know, just, for example, starting off with the tour that we just did.

Speaker 2 And we also use we use a very simple tape around the mouth that's elasticated that pulls the lips together

Speaker 1 i have your tape that's the one

Speaker 1 samples here i'm going to put it on right now everybody last night i taped my we're going to get into mouth taping but i literally

Speaker 2 you have to stretch it mel about 30 or 40 percent so it's only when you stretch it that you'll feel attention oh i didn't even take off the sticky part okay

Speaker 1 so everybody it's like the shape of a of a

Speaker 1 of a o yep and i stretch it by about 30 to 40 percent not too much

Speaker 2 okay like that not too much not too little maybe a little bit less okay and you're just stretching it and then placing it surrounding the mouth and the elasticated tension should be pulling the lips together so it should be you should feel some tension there i do

Speaker 2 so With children and teenagers, we very much use that as a training tool during wakefulness.

Speaker 2 So because kids are kids and they get distracted and they're watching television, they're on iPhone, the mouth is open.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 But for some adults as well. So part of this is the training during the day.

Speaker 2 So if an adult has the mouth open and they forget about it, the tape will automatically remind them to breathe through the nose. And it's all about changing habits.

Speaker 1 It definitely signals that I shouldn't be breathing under my mouth.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, this is cool.

Speaker 2 And bear in mind, the one thing about the nose is that the more we breathe through it, the better it works.

Speaker 2 But normally what happens is the nose gets stuffy. The person feels uncomfortable breathing through the nose.
They switch to mouth breathing.

Speaker 2 And when they switch to mouth breathing, it increases their nasal stuffiness. So again, it's a vicious circle.

Speaker 2 So I would also say to people that when you first switch from mouth to nose breathing, remember this is the natural way to breathe. in and out through the nose.

Speaker 2 And even if you feel a slight air hunger or a slight feeling that you're not getting enough air, stick with it. The benefits far outweigh the disadvantages.

Speaker 2 And the other aspect of it is, if you continue walking with your mouth closed, the body adjusts to it. And you then can do physical exercise with less ventilation.

Speaker 2 So it's almost as if you're training your body to do more with less.

Speaker 1 There's so much to cover.

Speaker 1 But first, we need to take a break and hear a word from our sponsors who are bringing us all of this amazing information at zero cost. And everybody, breathe in and out of your nose.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back. I'm Mel, and I'm here with the amazing Patrick McCune.
He's a best-selling author. He is one of the world's leading experts on breathing for better health.

Speaker 1 So, Patrick, can you just bottom line it for people about

Speaker 1 what happens, like what's wrong with breathing out through your mouth? We know the benefits of breathing in, but what goes wrong when you're breathing constantly in and out of your mouth?

Speaker 2 The biggest one is that you lose moisture. So there's a 42% greater water loss breathing out through the mouth.

Speaker 2 And losing moisture, if your mouth is dry and you're losing moisture from the body, of course, you're more likely to be dehydrated. But that will impact your dental health.

Speaker 2 Gum disease, bad breath, for example, chapped lips. But the other problem about breathing out through the mouth during rest is that it's a fast exhalation.

Speaker 2 And see, when we think about the body's relaxation response, it's all in the exhalation. It's not really in the inhalation.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute. It's not about the breath in, but it seems like that's what everybody says, right? I mean, think about it, everybody.

Speaker 1 If you're in a yoga class or a meditation class, let's take a deep breath in, right?

Speaker 1 So, if it's not about the inhalation, it's about the exhale. What do we have to pay attention to in the exhale

Speaker 1 in order to activate the relaxation response?

Speaker 2 You can take a fast breath in or you could take a slow breath in.

Speaker 2 But really, when it comes to activating relaxation during rest, it's the speed of the exhalation. If you breathe out fast, it's a stressor.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 2 So if you breathe in fast and out fast, it's a stressor.

Speaker 2 It's not just how you breathe that way during stress, but if you deliberately breathe that way in your everyday you're telling the brain that the body is under threat you're going into this fight or flight response and of course your brain is here to protect you and your brain wants to get you out of the situation so you don't want to be breathing fast going into a boardroom meeting because while you're going in in person your brain wants you to get out of there as quick as you can So coming back to mouth breathing, if you breathe out through the mouth, there's less resistance to your breathing.

Speaker 2 It's a faster breath out.

Speaker 1 And it's a bigger exit ramp because the mouth is bigger than your nostril.

Speaker 1 And so breathing in and out of your nose, if I'm tracking correctly, one of the added benefits is that the exhale is going through something smaller than your mouth. So it slows you down.

Speaker 1 And in preparing to talk to you, we came across that Stanford study that you cite, and I thought this was super cool, that your breath is like your brain's remote control, that there are actually neurons in your brain watching your breath.

Speaker 1 And when you start to breathe faster or out of your mouth, it signals to another part of your brain that something's wrong.

Speaker 1 And so, I want to make sure you listening to Patrick and all of this research and the 10 books that he's written: what he is saying to you is that learning how to breathe in and out of your nose has extraordinary benefit for lowering stress, for lowering anxiety, for being able to focus.

Speaker 1 You're also coaching athletes and high performers because your breath and being somebody that can breathe in a slow and steady fashion out of your nose helps you with focus.

Speaker 1 And so can we break down just the mechanics of the ideal normal breathing? Like how many breaths in and out should you take in, let's say, a minute?

Speaker 2 So, typically, during rest, it's about 12 to 14 breaths. But the only caveat there is how much air is involved with each breath, the tidal volume.
So, we can't just focus on the respiratory rate.

Speaker 2 We also need to focus on tidal volume because ultimately, it's the volume of air that we are breathing. And if we breathe too much air,

Speaker 2 less oxygen is delivered throughout the body.

Speaker 2 So, this is another aspect in, you know, there's a myth out there that if you want to bring more oxygen throughout the body, you take this full big breath.

Speaker 2 But if you take this full big breath, you're getting rid of too much carbon dioxide.

Speaker 2 The loss of carbon dioxide will cause your blood vessels to constrict and also red blood cells to hold on to oxygen more readily.

Speaker 1 Can you coach me through this? Because if I take a big breath, like if I go in through my mouth and I'm like, I'm trying to get a breath right,

Speaker 1 what happens as I go to get oxygen is my shoulders come up and I feel my chest pinch and I feel my stomach suck in and I actually can't get a deep breath because I can't get it below my boobs.

Speaker 1 Like I can't get it down into like that really satisfying full breath. Is that what you're talking about when you talk about the flow or volume or whatever?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's two aspects. One is when you were talking about there, you're talking about shallow breathing, which is not ideal either.

Speaker 2 So we do want to breathe low with good recruitment of the diaphragm.

Speaker 1 How do you do that?

Speaker 2 And the best way to do that is in and out through the nose. So if you, for example, if you place your hands either side of your lower ribs.

Speaker 1 Okay, so everybody, unless you're driving a car, I want you to get, I want you to cup your rib cage. Okay.
Are we cupping the rib cage or we're going underneath it?

Speaker 2 Just at the base of the ribs. So just at the base of the ribs.
Got it.

Speaker 2 And as you breathe in, you're just gently directing your lower ribs to move outwards.

Speaker 1 Oh, how do you breathe?

Speaker 2 As you breathe out, you're directing your lower ribs to move inwards.

Speaker 2 And the aspect is to hold your sides because normally when people put it on their belly they're pushing and pulling their belly irrespective of their breathing so that's why you have your hands on your sides so Mel as you breathe in you're just gently guiding your ribs out

Speaker 2 and as you breathe out your ribs are gently moving in now that's a deep breath in the true sense of the word we don't hear it you're breathing in and out through your nose and you're breathing slow and you're breathing low now we can slow it down.

Speaker 2 If, for example, during rest, we want to have the ideal breath to help to bring the body and mind into balance. That's between 4.5 to 6.5 breaths per minute.

Speaker 2 So let's practice that with low breathing for just one minute.

Speaker 1 Okay. If you like.
Yeah, I would. Can I ask a question?

Speaker 2 Of course.

Speaker 1 Before we do this exercise, so what I'm gathering from this is that I'm a mouth breather with bad breath who's causing myself stress and anxiety because I'm signaling to my brain with my shallow breathing that something's wrong.

Speaker 1 And that I always thought deep breathing, because I practice yoga, was this belly breath. And so I've always focused on inflate and deflate the stomach.

Speaker 1 And what you're talking about when you cup kind of the bottom of your ribs, because I want everybody to get this, you can watch it on YouTube.

Speaker 1 But for those of you listening to Patrick and to me, I want you to really get this, that it's really more of a horizontal thing. You're not inflating your stomach.

Speaker 1 You're making your bottom rib cage expand and come back in. And I'm realizing that so much of my breathing pattern has been almost like vertical up and down.

Speaker 1 And I hadn't been thinking about that. So that was super, super helpful.
And you said that in a normal,

Speaker 1 just going about your life,

Speaker 1 you're not trying to relax. You're just trying to focus.
You're going through your day. You're not trying to stress yourself out.

Speaker 1 You're getting the benefit of normal in and out of your nose breathing. You said that it would be somewhere between 10 to 14 breaths in and out of your nose in a minute.

Speaker 1 And now what you're about to show us is that for relaxation, you can do this kind of deeper breathing where you fill your diaphragm horizontally, your rib cages move out, but it's for four to six times a minute.

Speaker 1 Is that what we're about to do? Okay, great. I just want to make sure everybody's following.

Speaker 2 And just coming back to the diaphragm, like when the diaphragm, which is the main breathing muscle and it separates our chest from our abdomen. So during inhalation, the diaphragm is moving downwards.

Speaker 2 And it's the movement of the diaphragm downwards that draws air into the lungs. But as the diaphragm is moving downwards, you will have some movement to your front.

Speaker 2 So you will have some belly movement. and movement to your sides and movement to your back.

Speaker 2 It's a good gauge of the generation of what's called intra-abdominal pressure, that when you breathe in, that your ribs are gently moving out.

Speaker 2 Because this is what's giving you a good indication of the recruitment of the diaphragm and from that then stabilization of the spine.

Speaker 2 So the diaphragm breathing muscle is really important because when you breathe with good recruitment of the diaphragm, it's also a calming effect in the mind.

Speaker 2 The diaphragm and the brain are connected.

Speaker 2 So earlier on you were talking about that work by Stanford, which I think is so cool, that there's a structure in the brain that's literally spying on our breathing.

Speaker 2 Now we can use that to our advantage.

Speaker 2 Don't breathe fast, don't breathe shallow, because you're telling the brain that you're under threat and your brain is going to arouse you from sleep and put you into this stress mode.

Speaker 2 So now we're talking about five minutes to spare.

Speaker 2 And instead of just scrolling aimlessly, wasting time in our mobile phone, give ourselves a little bit of attention, getting attention out of the mind.

Speaker 2 and holding your attention to your breath, which in turn is training your brain to be focused, but not just about awareness. it's also about changing the physiology.

Speaker 2 So, if you have your hands again, just gently on either side of your lower ribs,

Speaker 2 and as you're breathing in, that you're breathing in for a count of five. So, you're breathing in, two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five, out, two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five,

Speaker 2 in, two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five,

Speaker 2 out, two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five, in, two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five, out,

Speaker 2 two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five, in, two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five, out,

Speaker 2 two,

Speaker 2 three,

Speaker 2 four,

Speaker 2 five. Now, say, for example, if we have somebody with pretty poor breathing.
And they're breathing 20 breaths per minute. I would say don't go from 20 breaths down to six all of a sudden.

Speaker 2 Gently soften your breathing, but do it, slow it down to a level that's comfortable for you. So if you're starting off, what you could be doing is maybe breathing in for two seconds and out for three.

Speaker 2 So during rest, we always need to think of the exhalation. It should be about one and a half to two times the inhalation, the length of the inhalation.

Speaker 1 Could you say that again about the length of the exhalation versus the inhalation with the normal nose breathing because you've said repeatedly, the exhalation is the most important part.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the speed of the exhalation during rest should be about one and a half to two times that of the inhalation.

Speaker 2 And you can play with it. If I'm having a meeting that's pretty intense, you know, I don't want to go into that meeting breathing fast and shallow.

Speaker 2 I will deliberately, in that situation, nobody even knows what I'm doing. I could be sitting down or I could be standing outside the door waiting to go in.

Speaker 2 I will just take a soft breath in through my nose. I don't even time it.
A soft breath in through my nose and a really slow and relaxed and gentle breath out.

Speaker 2 Because by doing that, I'm telling my brain that everything is okay.

Speaker 2 And I'm also taking my attention out of my mind and onto the breath.

Speaker 2 to put the critical mind aside because I want to go into that meeting and I want to be in a state of mind that I'm fully there, that I'm listening with all of my attention, not just lost in thought.

Speaker 2 Now, I would say, don't wait until the important meeting before you start to do it. Start bringing it into your way of life.
There's a really well-known doctor from Italy called Bernardi.

Speaker 2 And he did a study back, I think it's in 2000. He looked at the breathing that was taking place when people were saying prayers of different faiths.

Speaker 2 So one was mantras, and the other was the rosary, which is a prayer from the Catholic faith.

Speaker 2 And both,

Speaker 2 whether it was a mantra or the rosary, both of them lowered the respiratory rate down to six breaths per minute.

Speaker 2 Now, I think there's something really brilliant in this, that when we think of people who are saying prayers,

Speaker 2 it wasn't just from a spiritual and psychological aspect, but it was also the effect it was having on their body and mind physiologically.

Speaker 2 And it's so cool that this information was always out there. And now it's time to start embracing it.

Speaker 1 Well, it's one of the reasons why I asked you the question in the very beginning: what's the purpose?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I was thinking about it kind of from a neurological, scientific standpoint, but there's something so much deeper that it really is the quality of your life that you have within you if you take the advice and you apply this research to your life and you start to teach yourself how to use the tool of normal nose breathing

Speaker 1 and longer exhales, that this is something that your body was hardwired with, a natural intelligence.

Speaker 1 And so it's really cool that the research shows that when people are in a state of being present, in a state of purpose, in a state of deeper connection, your body naturally drops in to this kind of breathing.

Speaker 1 Are there other specific types of breathing that people need to know about that either reduce stress or that you should use in certain situations?

Speaker 2 Yes, when it comes to breathing,

Speaker 2 You can down-regulate, which is inducing relaxation,

Speaker 2 or you can up-regulate. So, for example, if you want to stretch your body and mind a little bit.
Okay. Well, you could go for a jog with your mouth closed.
It's a pretty safe way to do it.

Speaker 1 Jog with your mouth closed?

Speaker 2 Jog with your mouth closed.

Speaker 1 Do you have to be in amazing shape to do that? I don't, I don't, like, because I hiking up the mountain that I live on, I'm panting like a dog. I don't know that I could get up there with my nose.

Speaker 2 Well, when you're walking up the mountain, go at a pace that you can sustain nasal breathing. And if necessary, get a nasal dilator, dilator, which just helps to gently open up your nose.

Speaker 2 But also breathe nose slow and low because your ventilation is going to be more efficient.

Speaker 2 Physical exercise anyway is a stress, but it's a good stress, but it should be dosed according to the individual needs of the person. Like I do breath holds with athletes.

Speaker 2 I will have them breathe in and out and hold their nose and they sprint for 40 meters without breathing.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 They then rest for 30 seconds and they sprint again for 40 meters without breathing. Or I could have a 400 meter sprinter.

Speaker 2 And in some of their trainings, when they're well warmed up, I will have them nose sprint for 360 meters and the last 40 meters that they have to stop breathing.

Speaker 2 So we do exercises to stress body and mind. If you want to stress your body and mind using breathing techniques, just dip your toe into the water and just see how your body feels.

Speaker 2 And you don't have to hyperventilate for 30 breaths and then do a long breath hold. That's doing the entire thing.
If you want to do a stress, maybe hyperventilate.

Speaker 2 If you want to do it for five breaths and then do a breath hold, but it's comfortable for you. We don't teach hyperventilation.
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 And the reason being is because my whole thing about breathing is I want to get persons everyday breathing right. Let's get the foundation right first.
I love that.

Speaker 2 And then, then, if they want to do the peak, we can do that.

Speaker 1 Get the foundation for everyday life nailed first, in and out of the nose, low and slow. Can you tell us more about mouth breathing and snoring?

Speaker 2 There's been any studies that investigated nose versus mouth breathing during sleep. The people who were breathing through their nose naturally during sleep always had a deeper sleep.

Speaker 2 So you can imagine a mouth breather during sleep. They're breathing faster, they're breathing harder, they're upper chest breathing.
I'll give you this example.

Speaker 2 Do the sound of a snore through your mouth, and it goes like this.

Speaker 1 It does

Speaker 1 like a pig.

Speaker 2 And now, bring your lips together and try and snore through your mouth with your lips closed. Only through your mouth, try and snore.
So try and snore through your mouth with your lips together.

Speaker 1 I can't do it.

Speaker 2 So it's not possible. So mouth snoring stops once we get the mouth closed.
The second snoring then is nasal snoring, which goes like this.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 2 if you take a very soft breath in through your nose and a really slow and relaxed and a gentle breath out, and a very, very soft, silent breath through your nose, and a relaxed and a slow and a gentle breath out, as you breathe very softly in and out through your nose, try and snore through your nose.

Speaker 2 So you will see it's more difficult.

Speaker 1 I can't.

Speaker 2 So mouth snoring we can stop once we get the mouth closed. Nasal snoring we can significantly reduce.

Speaker 2 The whole aspect in sleep medicine has focused on the airway, but they haven't focused on the person's everyday breathing.

Speaker 2 And it's our everyday breathing that's influencing our breathing during sleep. And this comes back to, remember that study by Stanford? Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you're breathing fast during sleep, it arouses you from sleep. Who gets aroused from sleep? People with insomnia.
They're breathing fast during their sleep.

Speaker 2 Their brain is interpreting that the body is under threshold and the brain wakes them up and they're there two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning, thinking, thinking and thinking and thinking.

Speaker 2 And then they're waking up exhausted. And of course, that's going to affect their productivity, their focus during the day.
So, you know, we need to look at the big picture.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 how does breathing impact your sleep?

Speaker 2 In terms of insomnia, there's two times it can manifest. And insomnia affects about 30% of the population.
Wow. And 10% have it chronic.

Speaker 2 One is that we go to bed at night, but we don't fall asleep readily. Typically, we should fall asleep in a few minutes.
That's an ideal situation.

Speaker 2 But if we have overstimulation of the mind, we're not going to fall asleep so readily. So it's very important to be able to go into relaxation before we go to sleep.

Speaker 2 Now, that would involve, I would say, you know, use blue light filter glasses and follow sleep hygiene. Your bedroom is cool, it's airy, it's dark and all of that stuff.

Speaker 2 But also, we need to tell the body that we're going into rest and digest. So you could be sitting down, you might be watching some light TV, you might have your blue light filter glasses on.

Speaker 2 And as you're sitting there, really take a soft breath in through your nose, almost that you're breathing less air. And that's what I would like you to do.

Speaker 2 You're taking a really soft breath in through your nose and you're having that light and a really slow, slow, slow, relaxed gentle breath out.

Speaker 2 And then when you need to breathe in again, instead of taking your normal 100% of the breath, maybe take in about 70 percent of the breath in and then a really soft and slow gentle breath out and the whole aim is to breathe about 30 less air into your body than what you're normally used to you know you're doing it correctly if you feel a slight air hunger now as you do that pay attention to the salive in the mouth so we'll continue for one more minute I would like you to under breathe Mel.

Speaker 2 I would like you to breathe in a way that you feel that you're not getting enough air. How do you do that?

Speaker 2 Take a very, very soft, gentle breath in, almost as if your breath in is imperceptible, and a really relaxed and a slow and a gentle breath out.

Speaker 2 So gently soften and slow down your breathing so that you're taking 30% less air into your lungs. If you get stressed, just take a rest.

Speaker 2 But keep working on this because now what you're doing is you're telling the brain that everything is okay. And pay attention then to the slive in the mouth.

Speaker 2 When we get stressed, our mouth tells us, because our mouth goes dry.

Speaker 2 When we are ready for rest and digest rest we feel sleepy digest we have increased watery sale in the mouth so when we alter our breathing we're stimulating the vagus nerve which is secreting you that neurotransmitter acetylpoline which is telling the heart to slow down the brain is interpreting that the body is safe And the brain is also spying on our breathing at the same time and interpreting that the body is safe.

Speaker 2 So we feel sleepy. And we do this for 10, 15 minutes before we go to sleep.

Speaker 1 I know that you recommend people try

Speaker 1 this tape on their mouth when they sleep. And I tried it for the first time last night.
I used packing tape. I know that that's probably not what you recommend.

Speaker 1 And when I pulled it off this morning, I think I gave my upper lip a wax. I put it from the nose down so that the sides were exposed.
And I learned something really interesting.

Speaker 1 I put the tape on my my mouth so that I would be cueing myself to nose breathe and

Speaker 1 it's how I sleep. And I'm a fantastic sleeper.
And I realized I sleep predominantly with my mouth closed. My husband, on the other hand, he has this sound that he makes that goes

Speaker 1 It drives me freaking crazy. I know it's sleep apnea.
I also know that 1 billion people around the world have obstructive sleep apnea, 1 billion. How does

Speaker 1 this nose breathing

Speaker 1 improve people's lives with obstructive sleep apnea?

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So obstructive sleep apnea is when the person stops breathing for 10 seconds or more during sleep. That will be an apnea.

Speaker 2 Or a hypopne is when there's a reduction in the flow of their breathing due to partial collapse of the airways, that their blood oxygen saturation drops down by about 3 or 4%.

Speaker 2 The problem with sleep apnea is that it arouses you from deep sleep, but it's very stressful. It's very stressful on the cardiovascular system.

Speaker 2 There are four characteristics in obstructive sleep apnea. It's not just the anatomy.

Speaker 2 So insomnia that we spoke about earlier on is one of them. So it's very important to be able to downregulate.
Upper airway muscle recruitment, getting these muscles to do their job is very important.

Speaker 2 There's a therapy called myofunctional therapy that's excellent for that.

Speaker 2 Mouth closed with the tongue resting up in the roof of the mouth, but good recruitment of the diaphragm helps to open up the airway. Think of the typical middle-aged man.
We're drinking a few beers.

Speaker 2 We're putting weight on the belly. This is impacting the movement of the diaphragm.
We're now breathing more upper chest. This is reducing lung volume and the throat collapses more easily.

Speaker 2 Our diaphragm breathing muscle, as I said earlier, is connected with the brain, but the diaphragm is also connected with the upper airway dilator muscles in the throat.

Speaker 2 So coming back to mouth puffing and

Speaker 2 the mouth closed is really important with obstructive sleep apnea.

Speaker 2 You still need to allow them to mouth puff during sleep. And we were lucky with the design of the tape, the myo tape, because it allows the mouth puffing.

Speaker 2 Whereas Before that, we were using 3M one inch microport tape, which is going right across the lips, but that doesn't allow mouth puffing and that can make sleep apnea worse in some people.

Speaker 2 Just getting your mouth closed reduces sleep apnea

Speaker 2 severity by 33%.

Speaker 2 That's not looking at how do you improve your breathing patterns.

Speaker 2 If you have somebody with obstructive sleep apnea and they bring nose breathing into their everyday life, they learn to slow down their breathing, they learn to have good recruitment of the diet from all simple skills that you bring into your everyday life, that will help your sleep apnea.

Speaker 2 For moderate to severe, overall it helps when you get the mouth closed, also. But for some people with moderate to severe, they need to be allowed to mouthpuff.

Speaker 2 So, whatever you use as support to get the lips together, make sure it allows you to mouthpuff.

Speaker 1 Got it. Well, I'm going to make sure to tape my husband's mouth with your tape, and I'm going to stop shoving him or pinching his nose when he goes.

Speaker 1 Patrick,

Speaker 1 you are a gift to all of us. You have just given us all a free

Speaker 1 tool that we were born with to activate our natural intelligence, to lower our stress, to get better sleep, to be more present in our lives, and to learn how to access the profound power of breathing in and out of your nose, low and slow.

Speaker 1 I cannot wait to have you back on. We will link to all the resources in the show notes.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 My pleasure. Thanks very much, Mel.

Speaker 1 My pleasure. Wasn't that incredible? I want to make sure to tell you, in case no one else does today, I love you.
I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to change your life.

Speaker 1 And how cool is it that you and I now know how to use our own breathing to change our life for the better? All righty, I'll talk to you in a few days.

Speaker 1 Is it McCowan? McCune? What is it, Donna? McCone? McCowan? McCune.

Speaker 1 Honey, will you say it again for me? McCune.

Speaker 1 Hold on one more second. I just saw Jesse say, what am I doing? I need to do that again.

Speaker 1 Alrighty, the wheels are off because of me, Patrick. This is how it's going to roll.

Speaker 1 That's for you, Andrea. I just had tacos for lunch, and you know how I like to give you a little gift on the mic.
That was awesome, you guys. Boom, boom, boom.
Great job, everybody.

Speaker 1 Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

Speaker 1 This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.
I am not a licensed therapist.

Speaker 1 and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.
I'll see you in the next episode.

Speaker 1 Stitcher.

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