Dial Down Family Drama: 5 Ways to Reduce Conflict With the Ones You Love

Speaker 1 a U.S. Bank Smartly Visa signature card, you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase.
Yep, every purchase. 2% cash back on a new TV and sofa.
2% cash back on groceries.

Speaker 1 Even 2% cash back on concert tickets. Visit usbank.com slash SmartlyCard to learn more.
The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S.

Speaker 1 Bank National Association pursuant to a license from Visa USA Incorporated. Some restrictions may apply.
The Mel Robbins podcast is brought to you by Sheridan.

Speaker 1 You know what's the most overlooked hotel amenity? The lobby. Usually it's just where you check in and check out, but that's all changed with Sheridan's lobbies.

Speaker 1 Redesigned as a place to work, relax, recharge. The community table doubles as your co-working space by day, your team's hangout spot at night.
Need quiet? Duck into a soundproof booth.

Speaker 1 With co-workers, reserve a tech-enabled studio space. And the all-day cafe, and more by Sheridan, fuels you for all all of it.
Sheridan, the world's gathering place, part of Marriott Bonvoy.

Speaker 1 Booked now via Sheridan.com. You know a big holiday tradition for us? Watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade.

Speaker 1 I still watch it, even though I'm a little bit older, but now I got a longer list of people to buy for, so I'm also paying attention to the parade of deals Macy's has going on.

Speaker 1 Now through November 27th, Macy's is featuring a new must-have deal every day that will last only one day.

Speaker 1 Like super cozy UG fluff throw hardworking Dyson vacuum fragrances, hair products, and jewelry. Black Friday deals start November 10th.
Your daily thrill starts now.

Speaker 1 Shop now at Macy's.com or in-store. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
Woo!

Speaker 1 I don't know why I was all excited in that open right there. I even threw in a woo, because I'm a little annoyed right now.
I want to talk to you about

Speaker 1 this phenomenon that happens with your family. Probably happens with your roommates too.

Speaker 1 Have you ever noticed that

Speaker 1 right before you're about to go on vacation or you're going on some sort of family road trip,

Speaker 1 There is a mandatory screaming match that you have to have with one another as you're loading the car. Have you ever noticed that?

Speaker 1 We're about to go down to one of our favorite places on the planet and spend some time at the beach.

Speaker 1 And it never fails. The night before we leave, it is a complete shit show to the point where

Speaker 1 you question whether or not you even want to go on vacation. And I don't know what this is about.
So let me tell you what happened. Last night, we were busy packing up the house.

Speaker 1 And I don't know how your family does it, but I like to stage things. So I turn the dining room table and the kitchen counters into the landing strip for all of the things that we're going to do.

Speaker 1 And I also feel like I need to take everything that is in the cabinets with us and in the fridge, like the half-drunk carton of milk, because I figure why buy it down there when we can just load it in the car and finish it up.

Speaker 1 So I'm busy doing that. And of course, we were trying to record a bunch more podcast episodes.
So I'm running up the stairs to the studio and then I come back downstairs and pack a few things.

Speaker 1 Everything seemed to be fine. You know, my kids are packing their stuff up.
Chris is packing his stuff up.

Speaker 1 We're starting the pile for all the dogs things, their crates, their leashes, their dog bowls, the dog food. And we sit down to have dinner.

Speaker 1 And Chris, who is, thank God, the trip leader and the planner in our family, goes, okay, let's talk about tomorrow morning when we are leaving for this vacation.

Speaker 1 I really want to discuss when you guys want to leave, who's driving with who, who's going to take the dogs, and how this is all going to go down tomorrow.

Speaker 1 Oakley and Kendall, our 22 and our 18-year-old, immediately go, we want to leave at nine o'clock in the morning. And Chris gives them that blank look where his mouth is wide open.

Speaker 1 And you can see him calculating, there's no way in hell you're leaving at nine o'clock in the morning. That's not happening.
Because first of all, you sleep until 8.45.

Speaker 1 So you're not leaving at nine o'clock.

Speaker 1 He starts to basically say, That's fine, but I'm going to have a long list of things that we need to do in order to kind of leave and to get ready and to pack up the stuff.

Speaker 1 Wait to hear this.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden, Kendall turns to me. I love you, Kendall, if you're listening to this.
But she turns to me and she says, Can I just say something?

Speaker 1 I'm sure.

Speaker 1 If you're expecting us to load your car, mom,

Speaker 1 then you got to to have all your stuff packed up tonight.

Speaker 1 And I just paused.

Speaker 1 The old me would have erupted back and started arguing because I had not been practicing any of the nervous system regulation we talk about on the Mel Robbins podcast. I just took a deep breath.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 witnessed her

Speaker 1 getting agitated.

Speaker 1 And I said, okay.

Speaker 1 And then I said something smart. I I don't believe I asked you to load my car.

Speaker 1 And she said, well, you know, what ends up happening all the time is that, you know, you ask us to do stuff in the morning and then you're not ready. And then we're all waiting around for you.

Speaker 1 And then,

Speaker 1 and I couldn't help myself. I couldn't help myself.

Speaker 1 I had to tug back. You know, like in a tug of war, you know, it doesn't feel like a game when you're doing the tug of war in life with words.
But I yanked back and I was like, listen,

Speaker 1 I'm going to tell you something.

Speaker 1 I am the one that writes the check for the house that we're renting.

Speaker 1 And the person that writes the check does not do the same damn jobs that the unemployed college graduate and high school student are doing.

Speaker 1 So please do not tell me what I am supposed to be doing in order for your life to be easier because I have a different job than you have.

Speaker 1 I got to give her some props. Because she didn't back down.
You know what she said? She said, mom, money does not define your value. So do not throw that money in my face.

Speaker 1 And by the way, you rent the house and write the check because you want to be there too. So that is not a fair argument.

Speaker 1 All I am asking is that you get yourself ready tonight so that if you want our help tomorrow morning, we are ready to help you because Oakley and I are leaving at 10 o'clock.

Speaker 1 I got a handed to her. I did not appreciate being sort of snarked at, but if I step in her shoes and I give her credit,

Speaker 1 I know that what she was doing is she was looking back on past experiences.

Speaker 1 And the truth is, as I have admitted to you a bazillion times in our conversations on this podcast, I'm a complete shit show when it comes to managing my own time.

Speaker 1 I have time blindness, one of the symptoms of ADHD in adults, where I just have a hard time

Speaker 1 organizing myself. I am always the last one in the car.
Her complaint is valid. There have been often times where we have left for this vacation and I'm still in the house packing.

Speaker 1 In fact, today is that day because my kids left at 10 o'clock this morning. Chris is still running around downstairs getting things together.
Thank God for Chris.

Speaker 1 And I am upstairs above the garage finishing work that I should have finished yesterday. And have I packed yet? No, I haven't packed at all.
In fact, I still have laundry to do.

Speaker 1 I might not even drive down to the place that we've rented at this point point tonight. I don't know what the hell's going on, and I'm not worried about it.

Speaker 1 And by the way, it's like four o'clock in the afternoon.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm glad I got that off my chest. So a couple things about that story I just told you.
It illustrates something about our family. We,

Speaker 1 for better or for worse, have very open communication. As you notice, Chris was extremely proactive.

Speaker 1 He called this informal family meeting over dinner the night before we're all supposed to leave in order order to try to understand everybody's needs.

Speaker 1 Second, our kids, they speak up, sometimes not in a tone that I really like.

Speaker 1 And I will talk to Kendall when our emotions are not triggered about how we can be better at advocating for what we need without barking at each other.

Speaker 1 The other thing that you'll notice is that our daughter had no problem.

Speaker 1 basically calling me to the mat, which I think is a really good thing. I would never have done that to my my mother.
And I still don't do that to my mother.

Speaker 1 If you can do it in a respectful way, I think that's a good thing

Speaker 1 because we've gotten to the point with our kids where they have to be able to speak up when something bothers them. They have to be able to point out something that doesn't feel fair.

Speaker 1 And if you consider the example that I gave you, I'm right. when I say, I'm not going to have the same job as you.

Speaker 1 You're an unemployed college graduate and I'm the person that has a full-time business to run and I'm writing the check and paying for this vacation. So I'm not going to have the same job.
However,

Speaker 1 I actually hadn't addressed her question

Speaker 1 because all she had said, if you take the emotion out of it is, if you want help in the morning, mom, you need to be packed tonight.

Speaker 1 And I got offended because I'll be honest, I knew there was no way in hell I was going to be packed at night. And so I felt felt like I was getting called out and made wrong.

Speaker 1 I did not hear it for what it was, which is somebody expressing boundaries. I can help you, but only if you're packed tonight.

Speaker 1 And so she was right to call me out and say, mom, money does not define worth. That's not what we're talking about.
She stood her ground, and I respect that because I wasn't ready last night.

Speaker 1 I wasn't ready this morning. I'm not even ready right now.
Those kids, they left at 10 o'clock, just like Chris said they could.

Speaker 1 They did everything that Chris wrote on three different pages in terms of lists and things to do, and they're already down at this place we rent.

Speaker 1 Me, on the other hand, it's four o'clock in the afternoon. I have not packed, I still have laundry to do, and I'm sitting here recording a podcast episode for you.

Speaker 1 That's why families argue, I guess.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 God.

Speaker 1 So it begs the question: how do you get to the point where you can have open communication with your family? How can you express your boundaries?

Speaker 1 So many of us are at a time of year where you're going to be going on vacation with them.

Speaker 1 My family, my parents, my brother and sister-in-law, and their two kids, they're showing up in a matter of five days. My parents are rolling in just six days from now.

Speaker 1 We're going to be a family of 11 under one roof for an entire week. Wouldn't it be nice to know how to have boundaries, how to have open communication? And so here's what I thought.

Speaker 1 I thought it would be pretty cool if I took you behind the scenes and I invited you on the couch in the TV room into a private conversation that Chris and I had with our three kids.

Speaker 1 You're going to hear from our daughter Sawyer, who's 24, our daughter Kendall, who's 22, and our son Oakley, who is 18. And Chris and I are going to ask them, what did we fuck up as parents?

Speaker 1 What did we do that seemed to work? And what kinds of things have you witnessed in your friends' parents that caused your friends to stop talking to their parents and to stop trusting them?

Speaker 1 That's what we're going to cover and a whole lot more. And so without further ado, let's head to the couch.
So I'm sitting here with my husband, Chris, of 26 years. He is our rock.

Speaker 1 He's our spiritual center. You're the foundation.

Speaker 2 You're the core of the earth. We just revolve around you.
Yeah, clearly. Except Oakley's Pluto.

Speaker 1 What the fuck?

Speaker 1 Let me introduce Mel Robbins. She is our tornado.
Oh. Our whirlwind.

Speaker 1 Our farm. Our beautiful tornado.

Speaker 1 And, of course, my wife. Thank you for bringing us all together.
Sawyer, how about you introduce your sister, Kendall?

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 2 we have here the middle devil child, Kendall Robbins. She is an amazing singer, very dedicated, very beautiful.
We love her. Let's give it up for Kendall Robbins.
Oh, Kendall is,

Speaker 2 how old are you? Oh, she's 22 and 18 months younger than me.

Speaker 1 Thank God.

Speaker 3 Hello, everybody. My name is Kendall.
Thank you for that lovely intro, Sawyer.

Speaker 3 To my right, we have Minnie Chris. He actually doesn't have his own personality quite yet.
He's trying to steal everything from my dad.

Speaker 3 Okay, 17.

Speaker 2 Born on St. Patty's Day.
Born on St.

Speaker 3 Patty's Day.

Speaker 2 He

Speaker 3 is an amazing brother. He is the most mature, in-touch, intelligent,

Speaker 3 just kind man I've ever met at his age. And I don't just say that because I'm biased because trust me, I hated him for a very long time.

Speaker 3 However, we've crossed that bridge. But this is Oakley.
He's 17. He's great.
And he's going to introduce Sawyer.

Speaker 1 Hi guys, I'm Oakley. Kendall, thank you for that wonderful introduction.
To my left, Sawyer Robbins, 23, right?

Speaker 1 22.

Speaker 2 23. I am, in fact, older than Kendall, as no one notices.

Speaker 1 Anyway, she's 23.

Speaker 1 She's graduated from college, BC.

Speaker 1 Huge. Her favorite color is blue.
Do you know what I do for a living? I don't know if I should reveal like your personal information. Dude, reveal it fine.
My social security number is.

Speaker 1 Sawyer lives in South Boston. She's working at a cybersecurity company.
I'll take it from here.

Speaker 3 Sawyer is the most hardworking person next to my mom, I would say. Dad, we love you.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Good job, everybody, on the intros. So here's what I want to start with.
So many people have remarked about the openness that you guys have all displayed on various episodes of the podcast.

Speaker 1 And so the first place that I want to start is that we have a listener that wrote this question in. Mel, are your kids really that open? Or was that just them being that way for the podcast taping?

Speaker 1 Sawyer, why don't you tackle that one?

Speaker 2 To answer the question point blank, yes, definitely very open.

Speaker 2 I tell them almost everything.

Speaker 2 I consider myself extremely open. I tell them anything from work to friend problems to boyfriend issues, etc.

Speaker 2 But I am actually the least open when now looking to my siblings simply because I choose what I share with them. And that is a lot, but not every single detail.

Speaker 1 Why do you share stuff with us?

Speaker 2 Growing up, we always had

Speaker 1 a

Speaker 2 very open relationship. One of the core

Speaker 2 things that you both instilled in all of us is you will never ever get in trouble for telling the truth.

Speaker 2 If we were telling you completely upfront and honestly what we were doing, where we were going, who we were going with, or in general, like what is going on in our lives, then regardless of what it was, we would never be punished for that.

Speaker 2 And I will always remember I

Speaker 2 had an incident with my first time drinking. I drank a whole handle of vodka and I'm the oldest.
So that was my first rodeo.

Speaker 2 And I woke up in the morning and I was petrified, puke all over myself, sleeping on the window bench. I thought I was just toast.
Like I thought I was dead meat. I was so scared.

Speaker 2 And then we all sat down in the screened porch and they both said to me, we will never punish you for something that we also did as kids. After you guys said that, I just felt so much more at ease.

Speaker 2 And my punishment that day was actually going to a lacrosse tryout, which I yaked at several times.

Speaker 2 But then I looked at my other friends who would get in trouble for drinking or for doing things we weren't allowed to, and they would immediately be grounded.

Speaker 2 And that just kind of put a huge barrier between, I think, them and their parents, which was just, let's be sneaky, let's steal, let's sneak out, let's go to parties and lie about where we are.

Speaker 2 From very early on, you both were

Speaker 2 very vocal about as long as you are honest, you will not get in trouble. And I think that that just eliminated the barrier between us completely.

Speaker 1 I think a lot of parents say that. I think that is every parent's throwaway line.
Hey, as long as you tell me the truth, you're not going to get in trouble.

Speaker 1 As long as you call me, you're not getting in trouble.

Speaker 1 And then in the tsunami of emotions, when you get the call that your kid is blacked out or there's been a huge party or the police showed up or whatever else, most parents freak out and then ground or punish.

Speaker 1 No, I disagree. I disagree.
For you to say that every parent out there just makes a blanket statement that says, just tell us the truth and you'll be fine. Like, no way.

Speaker 1 That, that, therein lies, I think, one of the secrets, the keys to the kingdom is inviting that truth telling

Speaker 1 because most people don't.

Speaker 3 I agree. I actually think that, like, it was unspoken in a lot of my friends' households growing up that, like, if you tell us the truth, you won't get in trouble.
But, like,

Speaker 3 there was a difference between what they were saying and what they were doing in terms of the parents. Like, The parents want you to tell the truth, but they're still going to punish you.

Speaker 3 You guys want us to tell the truth, but you're not going to punish us. Like you actually do what you say you're going to do as parents.

Speaker 1 Mel, is that what your parents told you? Because

Speaker 1 I didn't get that from my parents. The message to me was it takes a long time to build trust and it takes two seconds to shatter the trust.

Speaker 1 So, Mel, what's one thing that you think you got right as a parent?

Speaker 1 Well, my number one goal as a parent, and I know it's your goal too, Chris, was to get you you kids to come and talk to me and dad about the important topics in your life.

Speaker 1 You know, I always thought if you're 13, 14, 15, or 16,

Speaker 1 way better to talk through something you're thinking about or worried about or, you know, wanting to try and all that stuff

Speaker 1 with adults who will listen to you than going to other 14, 15, or 16 year olds that don't know what the hell they're doing. Kendall, you're nodding at me.
Do you want to add something to this?

Speaker 3 I agree with that.

Speaker 1 I also have such an open relationship with my parents, arguably too open.

Speaker 1 Definitely too open.

Speaker 2 Yeah, don't take notes from me.

Speaker 3 I turned out fine, sort of.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 3 what I was going to say is you were just saying, like, it's so much better for kids at that age to like go to their parents who will listen to them rather than their dipshit friends.

Speaker 3 But like, that's the issue is that parents don't listen. My definition of listen as like you guys have defined what listen means to me.
And it's like internalizing what we're saying.

Speaker 3 Like parents all around the world can just listen to their kid be like,

Speaker 3 I really want to go to this party tonight. Like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Or like, can I please, like, whatever it may be.

Speaker 3 Oh, I got too drunk at this party or, oh, I slept with someone before I was ready.

Speaker 3 Like, there's a difference between hearing what they're saying and actually listening and internalizing how it's making them feel.

Speaker 3 Like, I feel like every time we told you guys something as kids, you would actually like empathize with us and hear us and internalize it.

Speaker 3 And in doing that, you were able to like loosen the reins a little bit and let us fuck up up and let us fail and let us and instead of being like you're stupid you're like you're being punished that was dumb you were like let's talk about it how is it making you feel balanced you're saying in these conversations that we were having as you were growing up you had that sense of feeling heard yes inside of

Speaker 1 yes absolutely oh

Speaker 1 my dad is balling it's cool oh dad

Speaker 2 i hate when you cry i really wasn't planning on this.

Speaker 3 But no, totally. Like, I feel like most kids don't talk to their parents because their parents don't hear them and don't listen to them.
So why would they?

Speaker 2 I think a lot of my friends, for example, whenever they would want to go on a trip or go to a party or do anything they want to do and they already knew in the back of their head that their parents didn't want them to or were going to say no, they go into the conversation

Speaker 2 to talk about that and express how they're feeling. And as a kid, I think we all come from the exact same

Speaker 2 scenario where we want to explain why we want to go to this thing or go to this trip or why we should be able to do this, et cetera.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 on the other end, the parents, like Kendall said, may be listening, but they already have an answer in the back of their head. Their mind is made up.
There's no room for conversation or

Speaker 2 changing.

Speaker 2 I think that when kids go into conversations with parents who immediately make up their mind, do not allow for any sort of alterations or changes to the plan, then you're just set up for failure because then it just turns into

Speaker 2 sneakiness and hatred and all that stuff. Yeah, resentment.
Parents and children should not

Speaker 2 obviously be equal. Like parents need to have a little bit of authority over children, but I think what I really appreciated most

Speaker 2 and a lot. Yeah, for sure.
At the end of the day, like I always felt as a child like you're equal.

Speaker 1 What does that mean? Because I don't think dad and I ever bought into the parenting philosophy of being your friends. If I had to summarize the way that we think about parenting is

Speaker 1 I think about parenting as though our job is to help you figure out who you are.

Speaker 1 And that means learning how to think through decisions, learning how to come to terms with your own values, learning the weight of the consequences of decisions, and that

Speaker 1 the whole point of parenting is for you to grow up and leave and go find somebody that you love as much as dad and I love one another and go build a family and to become more of who you are.

Speaker 1 And so we were always focused on connection first,

Speaker 1 correction dead last.

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm so open because you guys were so open with me. Like I feel like I could go to you guys, I could ask you guys something about your life and you'd tell me.

Speaker 1 There was nothing that you really hid from me. Maybe there was, or maybe I was just so young that I didn't really ask, but you were very open, which was super nice.

Speaker 1 And I also felt like you guys had my back like 100% of the time, no matter what. For example, I went to camp for a month and I got bullied.

Speaker 1 And so my mom found out about it and she took me out a week early, which felt really nice because it showed that she cared about how I was feeling and she understood that and she acted upon it, which was really helpful for me.

Speaker 1 And it showed that she has my back. And she continued to show me that throughout the rest of my life.
Oh,

Speaker 1 that makes me feel so good knowing that you feel that way about me, Oak. Thanks.
Yeah, I guess what I'm gathering from this is that it really is about seeking connection with you guys.

Speaker 1 And that required us to learn how to listen.

Speaker 1 It required us to learn how to hear your points of view, even though oftentimes what you were saying was stupid or immature or dangerous or irrational or emotional,

Speaker 1 but still to respect you enough to listen because we always had guardrails. And there was nothing that you were going to do that was going to be dangerous.

Speaker 1 We weren't going to let you do anything that was self-destructive or destructive to other people.

Speaker 1 And there's nothing that we were ever going to allow you to do or be in a situation that could be dangerous, deadly, or discriminatory against other people.

Speaker 1 And so, while it might not have seemed like it, there were guardrails there. And the guardrails were things that dad and I are very, very intense about.

Speaker 3 But I think that your guardrails are like around morals and like who we are as human beings, not behavior.

Speaker 1 Can you give an example?

Speaker 3 Be a kind person, hold the door for people, say thank you, ask the waiter's name. Like, you never put up guardrails that were like

Speaker 3 activities or experiences or things we do. It's how we are within those experiences are where the guardrails are.

Speaker 1 Oakley, what about you? Did you feel like if you told the truth, we were going to listen?

Speaker 1 Yeah, whenever we told the truth, we wouldn't get in trouble, which was definitely reinstated because

Speaker 1 I feel like whenever we were able to tell the truth and be honest, you'd tell us what we did wrong and you'd tell us why it was wrong, but you wouldn't punish us. You would just talk us through it.

Speaker 1 But like if we lied and we didn't tell you, I'm trying to think if there was anything where I like lied to you guys. i like didn't tell you guys something

Speaker 1 i can't think of off the top of my head i can't think of anything but there were definitely times where i would lie or i wouldn't tell you the truth and i would get in trouble for that because lying is wrong and that's what you shouldn't be doing by the way um

Speaker 1 i know we're gonna be here a while but could we like get a bathroom break or something like i need to go

Speaker 1 okay well we're gonna hit the pause we'll hear from sponsors and then how about we come back you guys rock okay cool

Speaker 1 I want you to close your eyes for a second. Just picture this.
You're standing on a quiet beach. The sun's just coming up over the water.
You're calm. You're present.
You're here.

Speaker 1 Now open your eyes because you don't have to just imagine it. That place is real.
It's called St. Pete Clearwater on Florida's Gulf Coast.
Start your morning with a sunrise over Tampa Bay.

Speaker 1 Take time for yourself with a relaxing massage at a resort spa. And when you're ready to eat, savor something unforgettable at one of St.
Pete Clearwater's award-winning restaurants.

Speaker 1 If you're dreaming of a Florida Beach getaway like this, St. Pete Clearwater is the place.
Head to visit spc.com to start planning your trip today. And also be sure to check out St.

Speaker 1 Pete Clearwater's new must-dos and hidden gems podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Each episode is filled with conversations and insider tips from locals.

Speaker 1 From quirky arts communities and Michelin-related dining to family-friendly attractions and pristine beaches in St. Pete Clearwater.
I was packing for this big trip.

Speaker 1 You know what's always going with me? Veore. I love this brand so much.
Why do I love this brand? They make insanely comfortable clothes that look great no matter what I'm doing. Lounging at home?

Speaker 1 Love Veore. Layering for a chili hike? Love Veore.
Running errands all morning? Veore is the answer. In fact, if you see me on stage, you know what's underneath my blouse?

Speaker 2 Veore tank top.

Speaker 1 That's right. These are the clothes I love living and working in.
The Viore Performance Jogger and Halo Essential Wide Leg Pant are made with Veori's signature dream knit.

Speaker 1 And you want to know what it feels like? Dream knit. That's why it's named that.
It feels like a dream. It's their softest premium stretch fabric, lightweight, moisture-wicking, effortless, anywhere.

Speaker 1 Viori is an investment in your happiness. For the Mel Robbins podcast listeners, that's you.
They are offering 20% off your first purchase.

Speaker 1 Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viori.com slash mel. That's vuori.com slash mel.
Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Speaker 1 The United Airlines app absolutely transforms your travel experience. How? Well, for starters, it can save you around 30 minutes at the airport.
Mm-hmm, 30 minutes. Who doesn't want time back?

Speaker 1 Especially at the airport. The app will create a personalized airport map that gives you step-by-step directions from the airport's front door to your gate.

Speaker 1 You can even see real-time flight updates like your gate number, a live countdown to boarding, all without having to unlock your phone. Once you fly with the United app, you'll never fly without it.

Speaker 1 Get it before your next trip at united.com slash app.

Speaker 4 This podcast is sponsored by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife feeling dismissed and unheard? You're not alone.

Speaker 4 For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored, and met with a just deal with it attitude.

Speaker 4 Today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. It's time for a change.

Speaker 1 It's time for MIDI.

Speaker 4 MIDI is the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies, making high-quality expert care accessible and affordable.

Speaker 4 MIDI offers a full range of personalized solutions, from hormonal therapies to lifestyle coaching and preventive health guidance. At MIDI, you will join patients who feel seen and heard.

Speaker 4 MIDI's mission is to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the health care they deserve.

Speaker 4 Because MIDI believes midlife isn't the middle at all, it is the beginning of your second act. Ready to write your second act script? Visit joinmittie.com today.
That's joinmitty.com.

Speaker 4 MIDI, the care women deserve.

Speaker 1 So I've got another question for you three. What are some do's and don'ts

Speaker 1 that you've seen either dad or I do or other parents do? Kendall, why don't we start with you?

Speaker 2 Let your kids figure it out themselves.

Speaker 1 Never with drinking and driving. Obviously.

Speaker 3 Honestly, if somebody is like gateway drugging their way into heroin or cocaine or becoming an alcoholic at a young age, like I can bet you that

Speaker 3 there is a massive lack of love and appreciation and being heard and being seen in their household. And it's probably coming from their parents.

Speaker 3 Hate to call you guys out, but it's probably coming from their parents.

Speaker 3 And you know what?

Speaker 1 Hold on, Kendall, because this issue about addiction is way more complicated, particularly with your age group.

Speaker 1 There are a lot of kids that get into drugs because of a sporch injury, and then they get addicted to the prescription drugs after surgery.

Speaker 1 And there's also kids that struggle with mental health issues, and they reach for drugs or alcohol to try to numb out.

Speaker 1 And there's also all of this emerging research about how some of us have addiction running in our family like we do, right, Chris? I mean, there's a lot of addiction that runs in this family.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I think it's a generational issue as well as a genetic one.

Speaker 1 Well, that genetic one is really interesting because I was just looking at a brand new study yesterday, Chris. It's groundbreaking research from Mount Sinai School of Medicine.

Speaker 1 They have figured out that there are disruptions in certain pathways of people's brains that may predispose somebody to drug addiction and that are correlated with earlier use of drugs than peers.

Speaker 1 And so they've just isolated this new pathway. And so you're absolutely right when it comes to genetics.

Speaker 1 So I don't think, Ken, that you're saying that all parents are responsible if their kids are struggling with addiction.

Speaker 1 But what I do hear is I hear you saying that based on you and your experience watching your peers struggle with these issues, it's clear to you that they're not talking to their parents about what's actually going on for real.

Speaker 1 And that someone who struggles with addiction feels a lack of love, whether it's a lack of self-love or in some cases, a lack of love from their home life.

Speaker 1 And that's a huge problem that only makes this us worse.

Speaker 3 Yes. Instead of the like,

Speaker 3 yeah, you find out that they're doing cocaine. That's terrifying.
You like, that's, I can't even imagine what that's like as a parent.

Speaker 3 But instead of seeing that and having some rash, crazy reaction about like, we're throwing all this out, we're putting you into this.

Speaker 3 We're putting you into therapy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 What I think would be more impactful is like sitting their kid down and being like, can we have it? Like, you're not, here's a punishment.

Speaker 1 You're not leaving this table until we actually talk this through because there's got to be a lot more deep-seated issues than just this bag of white powder the issue is that like parents are just so quick to be like they're so afraid of it becoming a bigger issue when like the real issue is the deep-seated hurt that the kid is feeling and the love that they're not getting I can hear how passionate you are because you've seen friends whose parents aren't addressing this head-on and they're not talking about the deeper issue, whether that deeper issue is mental health or it's a lack of self-worth or trauma or addressing the home life issues that need to be addressed as a family in order to support their child in feeling loved and in getting healthy again.

Speaker 2 I also want to add though that like, if the parent is not the actual person to talk to, then a licensed therapist is. And so it's not

Speaker 2 searching the house to get rid of all the coke and the weed to make sure they don't have any because I can assure you, we're smart. We can find it like anywhere.

Speaker 1 Well, one thing's clear, you guys: it's that these situations are painful and complicated. And when someone you love is struggling with addiction, seeking professional help is critical.

Speaker 1 I mean, even though we have a solid relationship with you guys, if it were one of you, or hell, Chris, I mean, you recognize that you were struggling with an addiction, and you basically

Speaker 1 got help.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that I

Speaker 1 thought long and hard about what I experienced growing up as a child and

Speaker 1 how my parents partied and did their thing and how it became habitual, particularly for my dad, who I'm not sure was an alcoholic, but definitely somebody who was high functioning with alcohol.

Speaker 1 And so it was always around.

Speaker 1 And that exposure, I think, led me into forming my own habits, smoking pot and hitting the weed pen. And it was daily.

Speaker 1 And therapy certainly was instrumental in helping me discover some of this and recognize that

Speaker 1 that behavior pattern was, in fact, the source of depression.

Speaker 1 Damn. I had no idea.
I would have never guessed that. I'm actually so surprised.
Like,

Speaker 1 I looking back, I would have never guessed that you do that every single day. That's insane.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I'm just really proud of you, Chris, for getting help.

Speaker 1 Every one of us in this family talks to a therapist. Maybe that's why we get along.

Speaker 1 We work our stuff out with somebody who's subjective so that we don't take it out on each other.

Speaker 1 That's also

Speaker 1 kind of recent. That's true.
I mean, we have not been a family who has sought out therapy years and years ago.

Speaker 1 Not that I think any of us ever felt like it was taboo, but it certainly never occurred to me.

Speaker 1 Also, something maybe generational like our own parents' generation, I don't think things like therapy

Speaker 1 even popped on the radar for people. So well, we all got to therapy because of a breakdown, and we're all doing, at least today, pretty solid.

Speaker 1 And I think therapy is just a phenomenal gift that you give to yourself because you talk with an objective party about what's going on in your life instead of taking it out in real time on the people that you care about.

Speaker 1 And you come up with ways to see things connecting. You get greater self-awareness.
You come up with strategies and tools. So

Speaker 1 I'm glad that where we landed in terms of addressing this question is by underscoring everything by saying, look, if you're struggling with anything, seek some help. Get support.

Speaker 1 Do not try to do this on your own, period.

Speaker 1 Okay, shall we move on to another question?

Speaker 1 Let's do so. Let's do it, everybody.
Let's lighten the mood. All right, we got a question from Avery.

Speaker 1 I'm listening to the episode where Mel talks about. her daughter's love life dilemma with Kendall.

Speaker 1 I have a four-year-old daughter, and I want her to feel comfortable talking to me about these kinds of issues when she's in college.

Speaker 1 How do you raise kids who share information about their lives with you? Can you give people a tool that you could use? Kendall, you want to take this one?

Speaker 3 The tool that you can use is

Speaker 3 a warm and excited and interested invitation to asking your kids about their life and showing genuine interest in their life.

Speaker 3 And I think that in that interest, it like makes your kids want to tell you more in an authentic way.

Speaker 1 Sawyer, what do you think?

Speaker 2 I think continuing to ask and continuing to be interested, continuing to be welcoming is very important. But if they are not like receptive, don't take that as

Speaker 2 just never asking again. I think continue to ask, continue to be interested, but there are times in life when

Speaker 2 they will not want to tell you. And you need to be respectful of that.

Speaker 1 And I think it's when parents often overstep and won't stop asking and have to know that that's a great point is that a parent can comfortably be okay with not hearing anything in response.

Speaker 1 That silence does not need to be misinterpreted as deafening and that there's something wrong, but just that

Speaker 3 because asking lets them know we're here, we want to listen, we love you. Just keep asking whether or not you get an answer.
That's the answer.

Speaker 1 Next question: I have a question from Indre, and she's worried that she's gonna screw up her kid by saying something or doing something wrong. And she wants to know, How do you not do that?

Speaker 1 One of the things that dad and I have done well is we have screwed up, we have said things wrong, and

Speaker 1 we

Speaker 1 are not perfect, but we're really fast and good at apologizing and taking responsibility for the things that we do wrong or the things that we realize we regret.

Speaker 1 In hindsight, if you realize you're just a good person and you're doing the best that you can with whatever you got in terms of your own issues and you're quick to take responsibility for them, I think it does show that you're open and that you're human and that you're trying.

Speaker 2 I agree. Dad, do you have anything to say about that?

Speaker 1 It is fascinating to be hearing about like things that

Speaker 1 we might think we did well or didn't do well. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Another big thing, Indre, I'm sorry if I'm saying your name wrong, beautiful name, by the way,

Speaker 3 is honest communication

Speaker 3 as parents be in honest communication with each other and with your kids be in honest communication.

Speaker 1 What does that mean, Kendall?

Speaker 3 I feel like you guys

Speaker 3 were so open and honest in your communication with us and you would always tell us what was going on or why something was happening. Or if we asked a question, you would always tell us.

Speaker 3 And I like think that watching you two be honest with one another like inspires us to want to be honest with you.

Speaker 3 And another thing, too, like under the umbrella of honest communication is like, I have so many vivid memories of like growing up as a family, like sitting around the fireplace or sitting at dinner or sitting some like gathering.

Speaker 3 Like you guys made such a conscious effort, whether you know it or not, to gather us as a family and to just talk about literally whatever it may be with fireplace wood evergreens mint food our our love lives whatever like you made such a conscious effort to like gather us together and get us all talking and communicating with one another that like there were so many times when i was like i don't want to fucking talk to you guys for 40 minutes at the end of dinner i want to go play polly pockets upstairs and you want their clothes but

Speaker 1 i'm being gentle yeah

Speaker 3 but then but now that i'm at my age it's like those are the memories that i cherish the most and those are the the moments that i look forward to the most, which are like the rabbit hole conversations we get down.

Speaker 3 I'm trying to stay on track with the question, but like making a conscious effort to like talk to your kid and like making it like a ritualistic thing where like you talk to them after dinner or you're talking to them in the car and like whether they like it or not or whether they're showing they don't like it at that point.

Speaker 3 And maybe they won't, but like, I think that they'll really appreciate that in the long run because I know we all do.

Speaker 2 I think though, like under the umbrella of honest communication, I think a a massive part of that is vulnerability.

Speaker 2 Because I think watching my mom and dad grow up, literally I've seen my dad and my mom cry and break down and not be strong and

Speaker 2 tell us what's going on in their life, how traumatic it is, how sad, how frustrating, how simple it may be, and be on the ground sobbing, which I think for a kid is a little bit jarring at first to witness like your most

Speaker 2 idolized person as your parent be weak.

Speaker 2 But I think that watching our parents sit at the dinner table and bawl their eyes out because work didn't go well that day or because they had a hard conversation with a friend and being completely open and honest about it just essentially made that possible for all of us to do the same.

Speaker 1 That's really big. When you guys talk about honest communication,

Speaker 1 most adults forget that kids are truth tellers and you also are lie detectors.

Speaker 1 And so when you say honest communication, what you're saying is you trusted us because what we were saying matched your felt experience. In your actions.
In our actions.

Speaker 1 We tried very much to make sure that if either one of us were truly upset or frustrated or disappointed or sad, that you you knew that it wasn't about you,

Speaker 1 that it was something going on in our lives, that you were not to blame for negative emotions that we were feeling. Is that true, Sawyer?

Speaker 2 Yes. You were very outspoken about that.
When like you would be in a bad mood or

Speaker 2 something, you would make sure, like even like the first thing you would say, I feel like when you would come in the room is this is not about you. Like this has to do with something else.

Speaker 2 And then you would continue to be a bitch, but it's fine.

Speaker 1 We did do all right. If the firstborn is actually saying that stuff, normally it would just be the thirdborn that would pick up on that.
I love you guys. I love you too.

Speaker 1 So far, the takeaway for me is seek connection because people are going to want to know the how. Like we're talking conceptually.

Speaker 3 Seek connection over correction is so big.

Speaker 3 So big.

Speaker 3 You will correct your kids through connecting with them.

Speaker 1 If you want your kids to be open with you, you have to model being open with them.

Speaker 1 And that doesn't mean sharing inappropriate things, because I don't think you guys should have access to the details about our marriage. That's for dad and I.

Speaker 1 And so I feel like you have to model openness. You have to talk about what's going on in your life.
You have to talk about your feelings. You've got to show your feelings.

Speaker 3 I think that you guys showing that you're, that like at times you are weak shows that you're human. It gives us more space to do that too.

Speaker 3 In being weak, in crying in front of us. Like I think so many parents just try to look so strong and perfect in front of their kids all the time.

Speaker 3 But it's like, by showing your kids that, like, you guys are also human, like, allows your kids to feel those things too, as they start to grow up.

Speaker 2 I know so many of my friends, till this day, as a 23-year-old, a lot of them have been like, I've never seen my parents cry ever.

Speaker 2 And not saying that you need to walk downstairs and ball your eyes out every goddamn day, but like not showing your true emotion to your kids is

Speaker 2 sad

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 not

Speaker 2 real life, honestly.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And I think that

Speaker 2 hiding that from your kids and putting on a smile every single day

Speaker 2 makes a kid feel like they can't have a bad day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'd say it's especially influential for

Speaker 1 guys.

Speaker 1 I feel like there's this stigma around men where they hide their true emotion.

Speaker 1 And when you're growing up and you look toward your father, I mean, there's a huge relationship there and you learn a lot and you take a lot from your father.

Speaker 1 And I mean, of course, your mother's influential, but she's not a guy. So you relate more to your dad.

Speaker 1 So when you're able to see your dad cry and show weakness, that makes you feel like it's okay to do that.

Speaker 1 And so whenever we were eating dinner as a kid and I saw my dad cry, I was never filled with like, oh, it's so sad that he's crying. I was like, I love that my dad's crying right now.

Speaker 1 What do you love about it? I just love how like open he is and just like

Speaker 1 how,

Speaker 1 I don't know, he's able to express himself openly. Like I love to cry because of him.
Actually, because of everybody, but I love to cry. So

Speaker 1 you see it? Do you see showing your emotion as a guy, as a strength? Yes, 100%.

Speaker 1 You can't just like bottle up all your emotions every day. It's not healthy.
Is that why you're so self-aware and expressive, you think?

Speaker 1 Maybe.

Speaker 1 I don't know, but I have no idea. Yes.

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 What impact has this had on you in terms of who you've become? I think I've definitely become a more open person because I've seen my dad be so open with us.

Speaker 1 I've had that influence from him showing me that like, hey, a really respectable person is somebody who can be open and show who they are.

Speaker 1 Have you ever cried in front of your friends? Oh my God, I cry everywhere. You do? Not everywhere.
I don't cry. Okay.
I don't cry that much, but like, I can cry in front of anybody.

Speaker 1 And I'm not, I'm not ashamed of it. I love to cry.

Speaker 1 Crying rocks, dude. Except I'm like drained after I cry.

Speaker 1 I can relate to that. You know, I also think that a lot of parents believe that you just got to stay strong because that is what make kids feel safe.

Speaker 1 And what I hear you saying, Oak, is that actually when you see them being human, it makes you know that you can be human too. It's like a strength.
Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 That's totally. But to reiterate what Sora says, like, you're not breaking down every single night in front of your kids.
Like, I feel like at that point, you might want to be getting some help.

Speaker 1 But, you know, if you're breaking down like every so often, like, perfect, amazing. Like, you're showing that.
But if you're at the dinner table crying every single night, like time to go to therapy.

Speaker 3 Totally. It's like honest feeling and communication.
Like, yeah. All right.

Speaker 2 Let's move on to the next question. But takeaway, don't be a dictator.

Speaker 1 Just be vulnerable. Yeah.
Connection over correction. All right.
Speaking of connection, I personally need to connect with a snack.

Speaker 1 So our family is going to take a break, listen to a short word for our sponsors, and we got a really great question.

Speaker 1 Coming up next.

Speaker 1 $1.1 billion in federal funding for public media has been eliminated. A decision that could mean fewer local reporters, fewer stories that connect us, and fewer journalists holding power to account.

Speaker 1 As the NPR network enters a new chapter, your support is critical. Your donation today can make a difference.
Donate by visiting donate.npr.org.

Speaker 1 If you need anything for your home, Wayfair is the place to shop. I'm talking everything from a sofa to a spatula.
They have absolutely everything. And get this, you can get up to 70%

Speaker 1 off during Wayfair's Black Friday sale. We just did a mini guest room refresh from Wayfair.

Speaker 1 Soft area rug, two new, wonderful throw pillows, a simple wood bedside table with a drawer for phone chargers.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden, it's like people are staying in a hotel room instead of staying in my house. The room finally feels pulled together.
And I love that the styles are so diverse.

Speaker 1 You can find absolutely anything in any style that you're looking for. Starting October 30th, you can shop Wayfair's Can't Miss Black Friday deals all month long.

Speaker 1 Wayfair's fast, easy shipping helps you relax for the holidays and feel great about your home. Don't miss out on early Black Friday deals.

Speaker 1 Head to Wayfair.com now to shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals for up to 70% off. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.
Sale ends December 7th. I want to tell you about one of our sponsors.

Speaker 1 I love this product, Aura Frames, because it helps me stay connected to the people that I love.

Speaker 1 I gave one to my mom and dad because my mom and dad, my gosh, they live two plane rides away, but every single morning, she sees new photos from my phone pop up on her frame.

Speaker 1 The kids, the dogs, the little moments from my day. No texts, no emails, no, hey, did you see that pic I sent you? Boom, it just shows up like a little hi in her kitchen.
And it's so simple.

Speaker 1 You just connect it to Wi-Fi, open the app, upload, and boom, unlimited photos and videos from everyone in the family.

Speaker 1 For a limited time, visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's best-selling Carver matte frames. Name number one by Wirecutter by using promo code MEL at checkout.

Speaker 1 That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com, promo code MEL. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year.
So order now before it ends.

Speaker 1 Support the show by mentioning us, the Mel Robbins podcast at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 1 All right, welcome back. We're still sitting here on the couch and right? Yeah, we're on the couch.
Okay, here we are. had a great snack okay well

Speaker 1 now we're refueled and let's go to this question from christy

Speaker 1 so her daughters are teenagers and she writes they've stopped connecting with me the way they used to and they're often behind closed doors or staring at their phone and i'm envious of the connection that you have with your daughters in particular how can i get my teenage daughters to open up to me first and foremost christy

Speaker 3 there's going to be days when they're going to want to be locked up in their rooms on their phone and you're just gonna have to keep a smiling face on, keep keep going, like know that it's not personal at all.

Speaker 3 There's a long ass moment in all of our lives, especially as teenage girls, that like your friends are more important than your family. That's just how it goes in your development.

Speaker 3 That's just how it happens. Sawyer and I have both felt that simultaneously.
But I think like

Speaker 3 something that I wouldn't say my mom and my dad didn't do, but I wish they would have done more of is like had more fun with us in those ages. Like,

Speaker 3 made experience happen between me, Sawyer, and my mom that, like, both Sawyer and I would have so much fun doing, like,

Speaker 3 going to paint pottery together and then going to CPK because they're food fucking slaps or like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Like, going to the mall and going shopping or like, girls, today we're going to go to the pumpkin patch. And if you want to bring your friends, bring your friends.

Speaker 3 Like, it, I think, like, showing that you care about your daughters and their friends, but also making time for the three of you to have fun together, like those memories will just be like so crystallized in their minds.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't do that enough.

Speaker 2 I completely agree with Kendall. As a teenage girl, I was

Speaker 1 angry

Speaker 2 and angsty. And I literally sat up in my room as soon as I got home from sports and did my homework, went to bed, and then went to school.
And on the weekends, there was no time for family.

Speaker 2 It was just friends. And that, like Kendall said, is honestly a phase in life.

Speaker 2 And as they grow older, I can assure you that family does become more important, especially in college when you move away and you realize that, oh my gosh, I'm not living with them all the time.

Speaker 2 I get to go see them. And that day will come instead of just waiting for that day to come.
I completely agree with Kendall.

Speaker 2 in creating experiences

Speaker 2 that you know your kids will enjoy, especially your daughters, creating experiences that

Speaker 2 involve their hobbies, their interests. If they like horseback riding, take them to a horseback riding show.
If they like shopping, take them on a shopping trip, something like that.

Speaker 3 And including their friends in those plans, I think.

Speaker 3 Like you, I think you did a really good job of like, I know I hosted a lot more than Sawyer did at our house, but like you were so both of you were so great about like, you want to be around me, but if that means that I'm not going to be present with you, but I'll be outside with my friends, so be it.

Speaker 3 Like you were so good about that. And I think that's a huge thing for parents.

Speaker 3 Like, if they want to be with their friends, like, and you want to be with them, like letting your kids know that, like, you're your house, and I know that not everyone's homes can accommodate like lots of friends and stuff.

Speaker 3 But if you have a space where you can invite your kids to be with their friends, that's huge. And they will keep bringing their friends back like I did.

Speaker 1 And I just want to highlight that we did not have some big house.

Speaker 1 In fact, we didn't even have a basement that the kids could hang out in because because it was dirt and scary and spider webby and you couldn't even stand up straight in the thing. We had no playroom.

Speaker 1 We didn't have some big backyard with a pool, but we did have a yard and we had a garage and the kids had bedrooms. And so I just want to say, you don't have to have a big house.

Speaker 1 If you got a room that the friends can hang out in, if you got a front yard or a park across the street, you got a place for your kids and their friends to gather.

Speaker 1 All right, here's a question from Mufei.

Speaker 1 As a mom of two grown daughters and a son who's still at home, I feel very regretful. I wish I could have done things differently.

Speaker 1 And now I'm seeing my screw-ups play out in their lives, and it overwhelms me and brings me to my knees.

Speaker 1 And yes, I tell myself you did the best you could with what you knew, but that only gets me so far because I know in my gut, I could have been doing things way differently.

Speaker 1 And yet I kept repeating the same things because I was stuck in patterns.

Speaker 1 How as parents can we find peace now that our eyes are wide open about the mistakes that we made and actually start building a bridge back to our kids again?

Speaker 2 I think this is a question for the both of you.

Speaker 3 Wait, no, I actually have an answer.

Speaker 1 Tell them.

Speaker 3 Yes. Tell your kids how you're feeling.
It's never too late to like build a beautiful relationship with them.

Speaker 3 I know that like I'm very lucky to be a part of the Robbins family, but like everybody that's been requesting and sending in questions for my mom, like tell your kids you're feeling this way.

Speaker 3 That is the most important thing you can do. It makes them feel so much more seen when you just tell them like, imagine how it would feel if you just told your kid, I want to connect with you.

Speaker 3 And I feel like I fucked up a little bit in the past.

Speaker 1 It's incredible. And I often think that

Speaker 1 the most profound advice is right in front of our face.

Speaker 1 And it's true. Like instead of talking to your girlfriends or your spouse, go straight to your adult kids and say, like, I really regret that I didn't do more with your friends.

Speaker 1 I regret that I was not around as much as I would have liked to have been. I regret that we were struggling so badly financially that I couldn't afford to do those things.

Speaker 1 And so.

Speaker 1 It does make me sad, but it's one of the reasons why I'm like, oh, note to self. Instead of trying to drag your kids closer to you, if you want to be close to your kids, go to them.

Speaker 1 Go to them where they, you said hobbies, Sawyer. Like, don't make them do the shit that you like to do.
Go do with your kids what they like to do.

Speaker 1 Even if you don't like their friends, invite their friends to be with you because then your

Speaker 1 child is going to want to hang with you.

Speaker 2 I think also going off that, the perfect example that I can think of is like Oakley is really into video games and used to be

Speaker 2 a gamer. Well, he is a gamer, but like

Speaker 2 he used to be a big gamer, and my dad is not. He doesn't play video games, but he brought him to a video game conference, and they had an amazing time and bonded.

Speaker 2 And I think that that was so special because my dad is not sitting with Oakley playing video games for eight hours every day.

Speaker 2 But the fact that he can, but the fact that he can like take you to a conference and bond with you that way, even though video games is not his top of mind interest, is the perfect example with diving into your kids' lives, even into something that makes you feel uncomfortable or just know nothing about.

Speaker 1 That was honestly a really cool experience because I don't even remember like asking dad to do that with me. My dad was like, there's a thing like involving video games, you want to go.

Speaker 1 And I was like, yeah, like I want to go with you. Like that would be so much fun.

Speaker 1 And so I remember we just like went, we walked around and we like looked at all these booths and we like played games together. And like, it was a really cool and like fun experience.

Speaker 1 And I definitely will always remember that. And it was like really cool seeing him take interest in my life.
Like that like felt nice because it also made me feel like what I was doing was like, okay,

Speaker 1 like there wasn't something wrong with what I enjoyed because like he was willing to be like, well, let's, let's go do something about that, which felt really nice at the time.

Speaker 1 Do you think a lot of parents make the mistake of forcing their kids to do things that they like instead of letting their kids be themselves? Yes.

Speaker 3 Yes. I think a lot of parents, sports is a big one.

Speaker 3 There are a lot of life lessons and values in like making your kids play sports, but like our parents made Oakley play literally every single sport under the sun from gymnastics to diving to soccer to lacrosse.

Speaker 3 And like he would play every single sport for half a season. He hated every single one of them.
And my parents would pull him out and be like, what do you want to try next? And he would tell them.

Speaker 3 And I mean, you can speak on this more because this was your experience. But I think what you guys have mastered is like

Speaker 3 you brought us into the world, not so you could live through us, but so we could be our own people. And you have mastered the art of like

Speaker 3 teetering between letting us be our own person and not being a fuck up. And I think a lot of parents

Speaker 3 bring their kids into the world so they can live through them. And in doing that, make them play soccer until their bones are aching.

Speaker 3 Make them get straight A's because that's what they wish they would do. Make them do this, make them do that until like they don't even know who the fuck they are by the time they're 22.

Speaker 3 And obviously, they're not connected to their parents then. They don't know who they are.

Speaker 3 But what I think a lot of you guys listening to this podcast, what I would advise you to do is like figure out how it feels for you and what it looks like for you to bring somebody into the world so they can be their own person, not so you can make them be somebody that you wish you might have been.

Speaker 2 Mike dropped. That was phenomenal.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that basically was it. Okay.

Speaker 1 18-year-old college freshman hates where she is. She has a long-term boyfriend who went to another college two hours away.

Speaker 1 A month before she left for college, she wanted to switch to the college her boyfriend was attending without even touring it.

Speaker 1 What do we do?

Speaker 1 Because she

Speaker 1 loved college before she went. And then, as mom says, shit got real at orientation.

Speaker 1 And now she wants to leave because she, quote, doesn't like college and hasn't met friends. What do you say to your kid does not like freshman fall of college?

Speaker 1 Sawyer, I feel like you should handle this one.

Speaker 2 All right, let me just tell you something. This is the story of my life.

Speaker 2 This is exactly what happened to me.

Speaker 2 Word for word, I had a boyfriend at the time who went to University of Michigan. I went to Boston College.
I was obsessed with it. I was so excited to go.
I was proud to be an Eagle.

Speaker 2 I showed up and immediately

Speaker 2 didn't see the raw-rah

Speaker 2 fraternities, sororities. I didn't have a massive friend group.
I had one friend who I met at orientation and literally for the entire year, she was my only friend. I was miserable.

Speaker 2 I sat in my room every single day, bawling my eyes out, begging my parents to come pick me up because I didn't want to be there.

Speaker 2 I tried to take all the steps in which I thought would be the best way to meet people, et cetera, make friends. And I didn't connect with literally anyone.

Speaker 2 Another part of that is I can completely relate to the high school boyfriend who is at another college. All you want to do is be with them.
You just came off an amazing senior summer.

Speaker 2 But my advice to you is she has to stay for a year.

Speaker 2 She,

Speaker 2 I really believe this because for my entire freshman year was horrible. And I do have to put that out there.

Speaker 2 But I went back because I didn't know where I wanted to transfer, although I wanted to transfer. And I had the best year of my entire life, my sophomore year.

Speaker 2 That was solely because my parents forced me to stay. They said, you need to stick it through.

Speaker 2 And I honestly grew as a person so much that entire year because I was in pain, uncomfortable, trying to meet new people, all of which brought me to the best people in the world at Boston College.

Speaker 1 Well, it also brought you to the best version of yourself. See, this is an example of guardrails.

Speaker 1 If you always allow your kid to bounce from one situation that makes them uncomfortable, what's going to happen is their anxiety increases. And so here's what you do in that situation.

Speaker 1 You can say, I hear you.

Speaker 1 That is hard. And if you're that miserable, here's what you can do about it.
You can transfer. Put all that negative energy into applications and figuring out what you're going to do next.

Speaker 1 And so acknowledge what your child is feeling, validate their experience. That is so important so that they feel seen and heard.
And then

Speaker 1 make them focus on coming up with a solution. You know, I did the same thing with your brother in sports.
You hated pop warner football, Oakley. I didn't even know how to play football.

Speaker 1 I know, I know. I forced you to do it.
And when you kept saying, I don't want to do this, I said, I get it. And you don't have to play all year.
I didn't play all year. I was a bench warmer.

Speaker 1 Well, that's true. You didn't play when you were playing.
But at the end of the season, we allowed you to quit, but we made you stick it out. And then do you remember what the deal was?

Speaker 1 If you quit a sport? I picked a new one. Do you remember what you picked next? Diving.
Correct. I was a champ at that.
Yes, you were. Then I quit.
And

Speaker 1 that's true. And then you picked another one.
And you know, one of the things that I always say to you guys, even though I know you make fun of me all the time, you know my favorite saying

Speaker 1 no.

Speaker 1 Try, try to try again. No.
Do you want me to listen?

Speaker 1 What is it? Do you want me to listen or give you advice? Correct. And nine times out of ten.
You pick listen. Because you guys don't want advice.

Speaker 1 You just want me to listen. So true.
So true.

Speaker 1 I think the bottom line is: don't rescue your kids as much as you may want to. Do not let them just bounce from college or bounce from a sport or bounce from a situation because they're nervous.

Speaker 1 When you make them face it, you know what you're telling your kid? You're saying, I believe you have the strength to face things that are really hard.

Speaker 1 You're saying you have within you, even though this situation blows. and it makes you feel uncomfortable, you're stronger than this situation.

Speaker 1 And you also are saying to somebody, I'm not going to make you torture yourself, but I believe that you're able to figure out an alternative.

Speaker 1 If you really hate it that much, face it, stay with it, and spend your free time either transferring to a new school and filling out the applications and figuring that out.

Speaker 1 And I will support you through that or figure out what other sport do you want to play? What are you going to replace this with?

Speaker 1 Because, you know, you can grow through these situations and how you show up as a a parent will either teach your kid that they can't face uncertainty or they should just quit when things get hard or you're teaching them how to become a problem solver you know in fact your cousin is going through this right now she is also you always said when i was complaining that i had no friends freshman year In terms of the solutions, for an example of a solution is my mom always used to say, well, why don't you just go knock on someone's door?

Speaker 2 Or why don't you Instagram DM to dm someone to get lunch and at first i always said no that's so weird i'm not going to do that like i have no friends etc

Speaker 2 but then i started to get desperate and i started taking her advice and it actually worked

Speaker 1 final question

Speaker 1 we do not like the person that our 18 year old is dating On a couple of occasions, they have been rude to my husband.

Speaker 1 And ever since seeing them, she doesn't talk to us like she used to. I I don't trust this person.
I don't think they're a good fit for my child. What do I do?

Speaker 3 Sawyer, I'm going to let you meditate on this one while I take the wheel right now.

Speaker 1 What do you not do?

Speaker 3 What you should not do is

Speaker 3 make your daughter or your son or your child feel as though they cannot bring the significant other over because I think as somebody that was in a relationship that was very healthy and loving in in high school, I watched my sister in a relationship that I know she was happy in for a while, but I think towards the end, whatever, it ended for a reason.

Speaker 3 But I watched her shut down whenever we would talk about how we felt like they weren't a good fit or we felt like maybe she wasn't herself around him.

Speaker 3 And I think that the more and more you talk about how you don't like the significant other, the more and more your daughter's going to pull away. You need to, she's at a phase in her life.

Speaker 3 She's with this person for a reason. If it's not love, it's a lesson.
She's gonna learn something from it. As long as she is safe and there's no abuse going on,

Speaker 3 telling her that she can't be with him, telling her all this stuff, like it's only gonna push her further away from you. And I think that like,

Speaker 3 again, honest and open communication, talk to her, tell her, we love you, but we feel like you're not yourself around this person. Is there a reason why? Is there anything we can do?

Speaker 1 Did you hear that from us, Sawyer?

Speaker 1 I heard.

Speaker 1 Because I think we said that. The question is whether you heard us say that.

Speaker 2 So the thing is, is when I was in this position and you were very open and all this, made it very clear that you guys really enjoy him, all this stuff.

Speaker 2 And I think what I heard when you would say things along the lines of, I don't think this relationship is necessarily great for you anymore.

Speaker 2 You are not yourself around him, which I think is our biggest takeaway. And they always phrase the conversation less about him and more about

Speaker 2 how I was and who I want to be and who I'm meant to be. And he was not

Speaker 2 making that possible for whatever reason.

Speaker 2 And I think that by my parents always framing the conversation and putting it back on me rather than blaming it all on my boyfriend at the time,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 it did obviously make me pull away away it a bit in the moment, but those conversations,

Speaker 2 essentially they always stayed in my mind.

Speaker 2 I wasn't actively listening, but in the back of my mind, whenever I was with him after those conversations, in the back of my mind, I would be questioning, is this right? Is this not right?

Speaker 2 I really love him. He makes me feel comfortable.
I, et cetera. But then in the back of my mind, I would consider, yes, but who am I?

Speaker 2 And by framing the conversation towards your daughter rather than putting all the blame on the boyfriend, I think that that obviously might not make her immediately end things, but at the same time, it will stick with her forever.

Speaker 1 I can assure you that. So I got two things from that.
Number one, again, let's go back to one of the huge takeaways. Do not drag your kids to you, go to them.

Speaker 1 So being super welcoming, even if you don't like the person.

Speaker 1 I realize the rudeness is a hard thing to deal with if that's the situation.

Speaker 1 If they're not in a dangerous situation, I think the more you can make them feel welcome at your place, do things with them, take them out to dinner, the more you got eyes on them, the more you have a better handle on the situation.

Speaker 1 And they're never going to want to hang out with you if you're super judgy. And I thought that dad and I, because I actually really liked who we were talking about.

Speaker 1 I just didn't like who you were in it because you changed.

Speaker 1 I think I was in a relationship for about a year and a half. And it was a great relationship.
It was very healthy. But I would say that I was not myself around my family.
There was a lot of,

Speaker 1 I don't know if sneakiness is the right word, but I definitely,

Speaker 1 my biggest goal in that relationship was like to make sure that she was comfortable and she was happy. And

Speaker 1 she would tend to become like uncomfortable in certain situations. Most of those situations involved being around my family.

Speaker 1 So I, whenever she'd come over, I would basically like hide her away in my room because I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable. And I was going out of my way to make sure she was comfortable.

Speaker 1 And I remember I had so many conversations with you guys about how I was like different and like you, there was nothing wrong, but you just wanted to hang out with us more and you felt like you still didn't really know her.

Speaker 1 And I think throughout the whole entire relationship, like those thoughts never left my mind. Like Sora was saying, like they were always in the back.

Speaker 3 Thank you for sharing snaps, Roakley. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 What I was going to say is, I think, like I said before, as somebody that was in the opposite of that kind of relationship, me and my high school boyfriend didn't leave my parents alone, but I would witness you guys always having conversations with Sawyer.

Speaker 3 And I witnessed some of the conversations you had with Oakley, just like about the significant other and about how these two were being in that relationship.

Speaker 3 And I think, like, back to the whole honest communication thing, like, you would always have these conversations, non-judgmental conversations with both of my siblings to the point where it did like you were open and honest about how you felt and how you were noticing their behavior change but like it was never judgmental it was never like you need to break up with him you need to you need to do this to the point where like i think it almost made them feel more comfortable talking to you about it because like

Speaker 3 Then when Sawyer would have issues with this guy or Oakley would have issues with his girlfriend, like he would, they would still come and talk to you because they know that you wouldn't be like, well, now's your time to break up with with them.

Speaker 3 You have to break up with them. You would just be like, okay,

Speaker 3 how are you feeling? Like, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I don't get the sense where you're like that with Sawyer.

Speaker 3 You were like that with Sawyer. Wait, I feel like you were.

Speaker 3 Whenever she had issues, like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 1 Sawyer's experience.

Speaker 2 No, I agree.

Speaker 2 I think that what, and obviously, once again, I'm the oldest child, so I was the first rodeo, but I think that what happened was at first it was very, oh, well, I don't think you guys should be together.

Speaker 2 Like, I think you should break up, overpowering. And then I think they sensed that I was pulling away.
And then all of a sudden, they made a flip.

Speaker 2 And it was constantly like, oh, well, what are, what are you and so-and-so up to tonight? Like, you guys are more than welcome to come back over and hang out here. Like, we'd love to see him.

Speaker 2 We'd love to see you. We can cook you dinner.
And I think that. Unfortunately, I had already seen the first side of things.
So I was already self-conscious about how they felt, et cetera.

Speaker 2 And like, Oakley hid him away in my room every time we hung out

Speaker 2 but I I do

Speaker 1 I did really appreciate the shift in communication and understanding of where I was coming from you did that you created a little like hideout for her boyfriend no no no for sorry though she was staying like in relation to me in the room while they were together all right one final one and I think this is important given the rise of mental health issues okay right now in middle schoolers

Speaker 1 we're not sure why, but our 12-year-old daughter is being excluded from her friend group. I often hear her crying in a room, but when I talk to her about it, she won't tell me anything.

Speaker 1 What do I do?

Speaker 1 That's a hard one. You could try relating to her, like telling her, like opening up to her first and then seeing if she'll respond like that.

Speaker 1 Because I feel like everybody has a situation in their middle school or high school days where like something shitty happens in a friend group.

Speaker 1 And I feel like if you go to her and you're like, look, I've noticed that like something's going on in your friend group. Like when I was so-and-so age, like this happened to me.

Speaker 1 And it may make her feel more inclined to say something.

Speaker 3 I think another thing, too, is

Speaker 3 when you do broach the conversation, like

Speaker 3 even if she's like very quick to not say anything back to you, like.

Speaker 3 Make it very clear that like you're just there to listen and you just want to be there for her and that you're not going to do anything.

Speaker 3 Because I think a lot of middle schoolers are petrified that if I tell my mom that I'm getting bullied, she's going to go and yell at all the bullies and then I'm going to get bullied triple the amount of times I'm already getting bullied.

Speaker 3 So like

Speaker 3 make it clear to her, like

Speaker 3 I will not be telling your teachers,

Speaker 3 scolding anybody. Like I am your teammate and whatever you need me to be, I will be for you, but please just let me be there for you.

Speaker 1 I think that last part's genius.

Speaker 3 Promise you're not going to do anything about it. Just promise you're going to listen.

Speaker 1 If you could tell parents listening,

Speaker 1 just any behavior change specifically that they could adopt today that would help them create a better relationship with their kids.

Speaker 1 What are something that you could do specifically that would really help?

Speaker 2 One thing, stop grounding your kids. I can assure you, it does nothing but make them want to retreat and do the complete opposite of what you're telling them not to do.

Speaker 1 What should they do instead?

Speaker 2 Honestly,

Speaker 2 honestly, like have the conversation

Speaker 2 and explain why it upset you and why it made you frustrated with why they did it. And if it happens again, then let's discuss it then.
And then we can talk about a punishment.

Speaker 2 But all my friends used to get grounded.

Speaker 2 And as soon as their quote, punishment or grounding ended, they would go the second they were ungrounded, they would go straight to the party and they would go straight to doing double the amount that they were doing before.

Speaker 2 So I can assure you, grounding, please just stop. It really, really, I've never seen it work on anyone.

Speaker 3 I would say be vulnerable with your children. Cry in front of them.
Be sad in front of them.

Speaker 3 Be happy in front of them, like emote in front of them in a real authentic way, like how you would with your own friends and people your age.

Speaker 3 I think that's like, you're just showing them that you're human. Like that's what they're trying to be too.

Speaker 1 I would definitely say just like, just be there for your kid. Like be their backup.

Speaker 1 Always let them know that you have their back and you're going to be there to help them whenever they need it, no matter what.

Speaker 2 I think another thing that we talked about earlier is make sure that when you are with your kid and you're listening to the your kid,

Speaker 2 you make it very, very clear that what they say to you will go nowhere. And that means not to your spouse, not to your friend, not to your dog, literally anyone.

Speaker 2 It is just between you two because I can assure you, it feels so

Speaker 2 invalidating to tell a parent something.

Speaker 2 Even say I tell my mom something and then the next day my dad comes to me and asks if I'm okay about that.

Speaker 2 Like that doesn't feel good because I felt like I was in a trust circle with her and I just wanted her to know that.

Speaker 2 And so I really think that making sure your kid knows that it's just going to stay between you two and that it actually does.

Speaker 2 And then you don't go on your walk with all your girlfriends the next day and explain your kid's biggest issue is seriously

Speaker 1 crucial.

Speaker 3 All we're saying is just be a human being to them. Like you're no different now that you're a parent.
I mean, obviously, yes, you are different.

Speaker 3 You have a lot more responsibilities, but you still are made of the same chemicals and feel the same emotions. Like, why would you turn that off? They want to see that too.

Speaker 3 That's the most important thing you can do: just be a human, be you.

Speaker 1 If I had to bottom line it, the most important thing is seeking connection over correction because that's what we all want. We want to feel connected.
We want to feel understood.

Speaker 1 We want to feel like we matter.

Speaker 1 And I want to thank you guys. I know you want to get out of here.
I appreciate you sticking around this long and thoughtfully answering everybody's questions.

Speaker 1 And for you listening, I really hope that this is one of those episodes that you can share with your family or your parents or your kids or your brothers or sisters.

Speaker 1 And it will help you create a deeper connection and it will inspire you to talk through some of these topics too. I can't wait to hear your reaction to this episode.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for being here with us. In case nobody else tells you today, let me tell you.

Speaker 1 I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life and to deepen the connections with the people that matter to you most. Thanks for being here.

Speaker 1 I'll see you in a few days.

Speaker 1 Well, hello. I'm going to hit record

Speaker 1 before we even start, Andrea. I'm learning.

Speaker 1 Check, check, check. Who's that? Me, I think.
Okay, yep.

Speaker 2 Is this recording?

Speaker 1 Like, we've been rolling for an hour now. Let's go.
I have to go again. Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Wait, stop leaning on the cords, everyone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, hold on. I need you to pay attention, Oak, for a second.
That's gonna sound great on the mic.

Speaker 1 Where are you going? Thank you. Are we gonna do the I love you? No, goodbye.
Okay, we're gonna huddle everybody. We do a family huddle.

Speaker 1 Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.

Speaker 1 This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend.

Speaker 1 I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good.

Speaker 1 I'll see you in the next episode.

Speaker 1 Stitcher.

Speaker 5 There are millions of podcasts out there, and you've chosen this one. Whether you're a regular or just here on a whim, it's what you have chosen to listen to.

Speaker 5 With Yoto, your kids can have the same choice. Yoto is a screen-free, ad-free audio player.
With hundreds of Yoto cards, there are stories, music, and podcasts like this one, but for kids.

Speaker 5 Just slot a card into the player and let the adventure begin. Check out Yotoplay.com.

Speaker 6 What if you could cover your gray hairs without damage?

Speaker 6 With K18 Molecular Repair Hair Mask, you can have strong, soft, bouncy hair and keep your root touch-ups because it doesn't just cover up damage. It's the deep damage fix.

Speaker 6 Patented K18 peptide repairs on the molecular level. So no matter what you do to your hair, K18 will be there to fix the damage.

Speaker 6 Shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase with Code Podcast at K18Hair.com. That's code podcast at k18hair.com.