4 Simple Ways to Stop Giving a Sh*t About What Other People Think of You

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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. All right, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
I am excited for today because today is a little different. We're doing something impromptu so the rails could go off.
But the fact is, I've been wanting to talk to you about this topic for quite some time because you keep sending in question after question about how do I stop caring about what other people think, Mel? How do I stop worrying about people's opinions? How do I just be me? Wouldn't that be amazing to be more of yourself? I have worked so hard on this for myself personally. It is easy to read a quote on Instagram and to feel inspired.
Yeah, the only opinion that matters is my own. But it is so hard to put that into practice in life.
The art of not giving a shit is not so subtle. It's actually very difficult.
And so I thought about how have I arrived at this point in my life at the age of 54, where I can say to you honestly, I truly do not give a shit about the things that used to hold me back. And the number one thing that used to hold me back was other people's opinions.
So I'm showing up today with four takeaways that I want to teach everybody. You could call them steps, but they're realizations that I've had that have helped me learn how to not give a shit.
And this morning on the team call, when I said, I think this is what we should talk about today. Holy cow.
People had a lot of stories and a lot of examples of how I go through my day-to-day life at work and in my personal life, and I demonstrate this quality of truly not caring. And so I decided, you know what? Why not invite some of my team members here to the episode so they can share examples from real life.
In fact, all these happened last week. And I can use the examples that they're sharing to help me unpack these four realizations that will help you learn how to stop caring about things that don't matter and start focusing on things that truly do.
So I have Christine, Jesse, Cameron, and Amy. Christine is our COO and CFO.
She runs the show here at 143 Studios. Jesse runs video production.
Cameron is a producer on the podcast. And Amy is one of our senior team members that does all kinds of producing and content development.
So without further ado, how to not give a shit in four simple steps. Who wants to go first? I'll go first.
This is Amy. And Mel, I noticed that you really don't care what you look like.
If it feels good for you, you just do it. For example, last week in LA, we were having a team meeting outside at the cafe in the hotel where we were staying.
And there was a lot of sunshine, and we were all soaking it up and loving it. And you were too, right, Mel? Yes.
You were loving that. Yes.
And then it got a little hot and everybody else thought, let's get out of the sun. And Mel thought, let's just take our shirts off.
That makes it sound worse than it was. But that is, I think, maybe one of the things that you said, I'm just going to take my shirt off.
Now you had a shirt on underneath. Yes.
Thank God. I mean, I never would have taken off my shirt if I was not wearing anything underneath.
And for the record, I feel like I need to defend myself. What I had on underneath was not a bra.
I had on a bodysuit. This is the first time I've ever worn a bodysuit.
I bought one from Skims. My daughters claim that they're amazing.
They are, but I was wearing a compression bodysuit. It had a tank top.
And so I basically felt like I could take off my t-shirt because I'm basically wearing a nude bathing suit. Yeah, no, it looked, it looked like, it looked like a see-through bathing suit.
See-through. But I think it didn't stop there.
Right, Christine? She had the top on, but I could see her nipples. So I'm like, that felt like an HR violation to have the team there.
And you were totally down with it. But I'm like, okay, can we? You're like, oh, I'll put my t-shirt over.
And so you tucked the t-shirt you're wearing into the top of the body seat so that it was just like kind of across your chest. It was like a chest apron.
Right. And I think now what was so shocking about that? Because I have to say there was a pool that was approximately 40 yards from us.
We're technically on like a pool deck in the restaurant area. This may be one of those episodes that you want to check out on YouTube.
Because we do film all our episodes and we will be putting up photos. Because Christine did take a photo of me.
And can I see it? I haven't seen it. Can I see it? Is it really bad? I mean, it's pretty bad.
But I think it's not flattering. Will you pass me a phone? Okay, this is ugly.
I have a really bad farmer's tan. And I'm starting to get sunburned on my arms and the undercarriage of my arms.
You know, those one of those muscles that we do this with triceps triceps, the triceps are really flabby and white. So the tan is not uniform.
In fact, it's not even coming in yet, but it's appropriate. I mean, it looks like a, it looks like a shirt tucked into a bra is what it looks like.
Okay. So that's number one.
Was that the shocking example? Yeah. I mean, I think that's pretty shocking.
I think it's pretty shocking to not just stop at the fact that you're not wearing a bathing suit, or stop at the fact that your nipples are showing, or stop at the fact that you're tucking a shirt into your camisole. What even is that? Or, you know, stop at the fact that you don't have sunscreen on.
Like there were a lot of moments, I many people would have heated the stop sign or at least yield a little bit. But you floored it to the sun and like you got what you wanted and you didn't give a shit.
I didn't give a shit. I'm sitting with four ladies.
You know, we're all from the Northeast. I am so pale, I'm translucent and I needed a little vitamin B.
I think I can roll with that one. But one thing I have to share is I never would have done that in my 20s.
Because I would have been so worried about what you guys thought. I would have been embarrassed by my paleness.
I would have been embarrassed by my flabby triceps, my flabby boobs. I never would have taken my t-shirt off, never have done it.
And I would have sat there in the sun, sweating bullets with sweat rings in my t-shirt, wishing that I could take my top off, wishing that I was in a bathing suit. And I can think of lots of times where I've been in a similar situation.
Like for example, I can't tell you how many times I have not taken my jacket off in a meeting at work because I was worried about pit stains in my bus. And I don't worry about those things anymore.
And in that moment where we were all meeting, you know, in that restaurant by the pool, all I could focus on was how fun it would be to just take my shirt off and soak up the sun. And that's what I valued.
And when I took it off, you guys started laughing, which meant I had brought the fun. And so it confirmed the value.
And I didn't even consider that somebody might be offended. But I've come a long way from Meloner 20s, because I never would have done that way back then.
By the way, Christine, who's our chief operating officer, was that an HR violation? I'm pretty sure that in most cultures, that would be unacceptable. And instead, at 143 Studios, we make a podcast episode.
Okay. Okay, so what else should I do? Okay, who has the the next one well then later that day we had an important meeting with somebody we've never met before with audible yeah um and i took note of the fact they're wearing open toe shoes which in my previous corporate experience would not be the way you would show up for a first time meeting wait what What what? What are you talking about? Who made up a rule that you can't wear open toe shoes? I think in general, toes are kind of a touchy subject.
Not everybody wants to see people's feet, especially in a professional environment. Even though it was casual, it was we're meeting out after work kind of drink situation.
But still, but, you know, I intentionally packed closed toe shoes just for that meeting. You did? I did.
So can you walk me through the thinking that goes into giving a shit about closed toeed? Closed toeed. I can't even say it.
Closed toe shoes. Covered toe.
Ballerina slippers. Yeah.
But yeah, I was wearing, I wore like ballet flats because I can't even say it closed toe shoes cover to ballerina slippers yeah yeah I was wearing I wear like ballet flats because I didn't want to show up for a meeting with uh my toes exposed so I left my sandals at home so that I would have appropriate footwear for a first meeting okay which never crossed your mind and I noticed your toes right away but then I didn't say anything because obviously you're the boss. You can show up however you want for those meetings.
Well, you're kind of the boss. You run the place.
I just break the rules, apparently. So never in a million years did it even cross my mind that open-toed shoes are a problem for any kind of meeting.
I think open-toed shoes are like the neck hair of the past. You know what I mean? Like you don't want to see neck hair, you know, like button that top button, get your toes covered up.
Like, really? Come on now. I've got my, I've got my Birkenstocks on right now.
But you know, here's my thinking. I'm thinking those aren't just open toed shoes, bitch.
Those were Valentino wedge espadrilles that I had bought to wear to graduation. And so I put those puppies on like a freaking Ferrari on my feet.
I strutted into Soho House LA like the baller I am.

And you were right behind me strutting in your Chanel ballet flats because Christine's the badass business bitch. And so she was walking in those ballet shoes ready to do some business.
And so I go striding in there. I had no idea that you glanced at my toes and you judged me.
Yeah, I did judge you. I didn't have any idea that they were fancy shoes.
All I saw was your toes. So I'm like, whatever.
You are you 100% all the time. So I wasn't going to say anything because we were walking out the door because of course we were late.
And so I was judging a little. But again, it's your meeting, your call.
Possibly with good reason, the judging. I don't think so.
See, I don't think anybody notices your fee. And I don't think anybody's not going to do business with you because you have aspergerals on.
I'm going to call on some backup here. Cameron, you worked at a law firm.
Am I alone in thinking that this is a kind of corporate no-go in some environments? It's definitely a no-go. And also, if you have unpainted toes, I think it's a little worse.
Mel, were your toes painted? No. Yeah.
No, they were not. They might have even had dirt on them for all I know, because I wasn't looking down there.
Here I am thinking, ooh, yeah, I got an important meeting. I'm going to pull on my highways to bell-bottom jeans because I'm in LA.
And then I'm going to pull on my expensive Valentino wedge things with the studs because man, that is what the badass women boss situation. And I'm going to breeze in there with my COO, who is always the dealmaker.
And we are going to wow the shit out of this thing. I didn't for a second think about my toes because I gave a shit about other things, which is killing the meeting, which I do believe I did.
You did an amazing job. Thank you.
I'm also proud of myself for hearing that I committed a corporate faux pas and not caring. Because if you had told me this open toes feedback, even I'd say just a handful of years ago, you know what my reaction would have been? I would have gone, I would have been mortified.
And then as sad as it is, I would have probably never worn those espadrilles again. Or I would have obsessed about bumping into the guy in our next meeting because I would be worried, is he judging me for my toes? Is he looking at my feet? But I'm so happy that I don't feel that way at all.
It's liberating. I don't care what he or you think about my outfit.
I was focused on what I valued and what I valued is how the meeting actually went and it went great. And this is another point.
Do you want to know why it went great? It went great because from the moment I walked into Soho House, I felt like myself. I was in my espadrilles.
I was in my wide leg jeans. I was relaxed.
I was confident. I just felt like me.
Yeah. So if you're listening and you're the kind of person that struggles with what other people think about you, you're constantly wasting mental energy worrying about whether or not people are judging you or what they think of your outfit or whatever.

It's why you feel so awkward every time you walk into a party or a network meeting. You feel exposed because you've assumed that everybody is now turning and judging you.

And I am here to tell you complete waste of your time. Yeah.
Let me just unpack what happened with me and Christine. I didn't even know Christine was judging me.
And this is a huge takeaway because let's just say I do know the toe rule. And let's say I know that Christine cares about it.
If I were to wear closed toed shoes, instead of the espadrilles that I love, that I had packed and planned on wearing to this meeting, if I wear the closed toed shoes just to make Christine happy, you know what I'm doing? I'm changing myself at my core. Why would I do that? Why would you change who you are at your core? Just so somebody else feels better.
I mean, I love you, Christine, but me in ballet flats, not the vibe. You can rock them, not me.
And there's an even deeper issue. Does you worrying about everyone's opinion influence their opinion at all? No.
All it does when you worry about being judged is it creates a ton of self-doubt and it makes you change who you are and what you wear. And it takes your focus

away from what's going to empower you to caring more about what everybody else might be thinking.

Something I would just add as somebody who's known you for a long time,

18 years at this point, you have always been exactly the same person. I've never known you to make a negative comment about anyone else's appearance, how anyone else is dressed.
I don't think that's something that you process or are connected to. And I think it's because you freed yourself of those constraints.
I don't even know that it's something that you notice. And I think that's quite admirable.
That's also something to share of like, once you stop caring about those things, you'll stop paying attention to them and other people too. And it makes it better for everyone.
That's a huge, profound point. Because I've heard other people, Christine, make this point where they go, you know, when other people judge you, it's about them.
It's not about you. But I think you just illustrated why.
I don't judge what anybody else looks like or what they're wearing because I don't judge myself for what I'm wearing. I mean, I can laugh at myself.
I have humanity and humor about it, but I'm not actually very critical of myself. And I think if you can eradicate that in yourself, it's true.
You don't criticize other people. It's really one of the most important skills that you can learn.
Because what you're doing is you're

really giving a shit about your values. And you're putting your attention and your mindset and your effort toward what you value.
And you're spending less and less time and energy on things that you don't. Wow.
I didn't expect this to be so profound. So, Amy, Christine, Cameron, Jesse, anything else?

That's all you got, you guys?

That's it?

Well, that was only, that was Monday.

Oh my God.

I can't wait to hear what I did next.

Hold that thought and let's hear a word from our sponsors

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Hey, it's your friend Mel.

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trial today. Welcome back.
I'm Mel Robbins and you and I are talking about the art of not giving a shit in four simple steps. And I'm here with four amazing members of our 143 Studios team and they're sharing stories from last week when I just really didn't care.
I was myself unapologetically. So if you're wondering, okay, how can I be more of myself, like my full self? Get ready, because I have a feeling we're just getting started on the stories.
But I promise you, we are going to get to the four steps too. So let's go back to LA.
What the heck did I do next? So then Tuesday, we went to a hot yoga class, which we usually do while we're in LA. And it was a super sweaty, hot class.
And you're recording a selfie on the way out. And this day, and he was really run over.
Like you were so hot and sweaty and your sinuses were bothering you. And without fail, you're recording your selfie.
And I just am always impressed of how you show up at really what is truly one of your like worst looking moments of being out of this class because you're hot, you're sweaty, you're like just a mess. And you just are ready to go live and share that.
So if I'm hearing you correctly, I looked like absolute shit. You did look like absolute shit.
And we can, we'll, we'll pull up the post for folks so they can see exactly what we're talking about for anybody who's watching on YouTube. And I think because you do that, I know other women that we run into are always feeling like, you know, if Mel Robbins can do this with all the people that she is connecting with, then what am I worried about? There's something very freeing in that.
And that's a huge compliment. Well, thank you.
It is a huge compliment. But then I think it also is freeing for you too, because you do that.
And that's a huge compliment. Well, thank you.
It is a huge compliment. But then I think it also is freeing for you to because you do that at those worst moments, then you never really, you know, are concerned about what those other moments are, where maybe other people would feel self conscious because you've already shared at those moments.
I agree. I looked like absolute shit.
But here's what I think. I walk around looking like that.
So why would I be worried about putting it online? Like if you walk into the grocery store wearing a pair of yoga tights, and you're sweaty and your hair's a mess, why do you feel bad putting a photo of yourself looking like that online? Stop and consider that you're okay going out in public or being around friends looking like crap, because that's how we all look in real life. But somehow that's not acceptable on social media.
It's been very liberating for me to just go, fuck it. I don't care what I look like because I walk into a grocery store looking like this.
I know I look like shit. Who cares? What I look like in public is exactly what you should put on social media.
Because if you don't, you're subconsciously giving a shit about your appearance. And one of the things that I gave up a long time ago, Christine, is worrying about what I looked like.
And maybe it was because of the experience of being a commentator on CNN. Because when I was on CNN as an on-air legal commentator, there were only five of us in the entire world that were on that team.
And it was a really cool job analyzing some of the biggest cases of our time. I noticed something, that whenever I would be on TV and I would have an opinion about particularly a case that people were really hot about, like Trayvon Martin's murder, or what happened in Ferguson, or Freddie Gray, or Tamir Rice, I noticed that when people criticized me, they never criticized what I said.
Here I am on television talking about a very serious topic. People on Twitter or on social media, they're like, you old fucking bag, you know, have you seen your neck? Just constantly trashing me that I just learned how to tune it out and I started to not care.
And there's something very liberating about leaving an exercise class and your mascara from last night is running down your face like Dracula and going and getting your coffee anyway. Because you don't give a shit what the other people who are standing in line around you think about the fact that your fucking mascara is running.
And half of them, you're probably never going to see again anyway. So who gives a fuck? I spent way too much time caring way too much about what other people might think.
And it chokes you. Can I read to you what some people said to you on CNN? Wait, you have it? I do.
Oh my God. She went back in time.
This is pretty brutal. Your neck is saggy, just like your opinions.
It's funny now, but you were probably like, when you got that, right? Like that was probably hurt in the beginning. Yeah, probably.
Why is someone so ugly on television? Because I'm smarter than you. Fuck face.
Okay. The last one.
How does a moron like you have a law degree? I cheated. That's how to not give a shit.
Well, you know how I learned how to not give a shit well you know how i learned how to not give a shit empathy helps a lot number one let's just take a minute and zoom out and have some perspective and imagine what is the life of a person who is sitting on their phone watching TV nonstop, sounding off at pundits online, what does their life actually look like? I would imagine hypertension, negativity, I'm going to throw in a little alcohol or drug abuse, probably a small circle of friends, not getting a lot of sex, perhaps living in your parents' basement. I would think your bills are piled sky high if that's how you're spending your time.
Your life sucks. Even like the mean girls.
Mean girls are shitty people. You know how insecure they are? If you need a fucking designer purse, whatever, in order to have high self-esteem, you are really fucking insecure.

And so I kind of just look at people that are critical of other people, even though I'm being critical of other people, you know, for the sake of humor, with a lot of sympathy. Like, wow, must really suck for you to watch TV and feel so offended or triggered by what I'm saying that you are taking time and energy to spread negativity.
That's a really awful place to live your life. I hope you find a good therapist at some point and you get the healing you deserve.
And one rule of thumb that I think about a lot is this. I think small minds talk about other people and really cool, big, creative minds talk about ideas.

They talk about things. They talk about the future.
And that's what I'm interested in. And when you elevate yourself above the kind of pettiness and the criticism and the negativity that other people might throw at you, it helps me rise above it.
And the truth is, you know, there are days I look like shit. And there are days that I probably look like I shouldn't be on TV.
And you know what? I don't give a shit. It's mentally healthy to be able to detach.
And a lot of your mental health struggles, it's all a result in many, many, many cases of you being way too concerned about shit out of your control. So if anybody's out there gossiping about me, you need to get better hobbies.
Right, Amy? Yeah. Well, no, I'm glad we're talking about gossiping because it's such a waste of time and energy.
It only makes the negative voice in your head louder. It's like poison that you drink yourself.
You think you're dishing it out about other people, but it's really toxic for you. Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. And it makes you even more attuned to the fact that you give a shit about small, petty, critical things that don't matter.
And when you say petty things about others, you reinforce those neurological pathways in your mind that say, I cut people down. Amy, I've never thought about it that way.
I've always thought about gossiping and the negativity it stirs up, but you're taking this to a really important point, which is you're training your brain to cut people down. And it's true.
You think it's harmless and that you're doing it to bond with other people. That's why we do it.
But what happens, and I've experienced this myself, is that you turn that nasty, cut people down mindset back against yourself. Yes.
I mean, at least I did. You know, I used to be a big gossiper.
I can say this with certainty because I used to be that insecure, desperate, clingy, anxious, competitive bitch. And I'm so happy that I'm not that person anymore.
And if that's what's happening in your social setting, that you're stopping and you're thinking, huh, wow, I'm around a lot of people that gossip. And I spend a lot of time with friends gossiping, which by the way, is different than you seeking about a person, that's different than gossiping.

But if you are the kind of person like I used to be,

where you're just engaged in banter about other people,

you're cutting people down who aren't present,

you need bigger goals.

You need to do more with your life.

You need to assess who you're hanging out with,

because I'll tell you something.

When people gossip with you, guess what? They're going to gossip about you when you leave, because that's what those kinds of people do. I love your take, Amy, that gossiping trains your mind to cut people down.
And you will end up cutting yourself down all the time too. And here's another thing.
I don't think very successful people or accomplished artists or the greatest entrepreneurs or civil rights leaders are wasting time gossiping about other people. Right.
All right. I think we put the nail in the coffin on gossiping.
Stop doing it, everybody. Do you guys have any other examples from last week where I could care less about what other people might think? Well, the next day, you took it to the

next level. Hold that story.
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I'm Mel Robbins and we're talking about the art of not giving a shit. And I'm about to boil it down to four simple steps.
But before I do, Amy was about to tell

us yet another story of something that I did where I demonstrated that I could clearly care less what anyone else thought. And if that's something that you want to learn how to do, how do I care less about what other people think? I think this story based on the look on everyone's faces is going to be a doozy.
So Amy, what the heck happened next? Well, the next day, Mel, you took it to the next level. Oh, God.
Yeah. Well, you did not care about what anyone thought when you were showing up for an extremely important lecture.
Was this launch? Yes. Okay.
So let me just tell everybody what Amy's talking. So Amy's talking about the fact that we have a six-month-long course going on with the students who are in this coaching program with me.
And we had our very first live training while we were in Los Angeles. But what did I do? Well, I'll let Christine unpack it because Christine, I know you didn't like the toes.

So what did you think about the spacesuit?

Wednesday, we had our first live event for our course with Mel Robbins.

And as a surprise, our team had ordered some props for the event to make it a celebration.

And the course is called Launch with Mel Robbins.

So they had purchased a spacesuit with a helmet and a pop-up tent shaped like a rocket ship. Yeah.
Let me just say here, Christine, just before you go on, everything Christine is describing is child size. Yeah, like a normal fitting spacesuit, or like a big helmet, or a tent that like an adult should even be in.
These were all things that needed a squeeze to get into. So I just want to let the audience get that visual.
Let me also add that these were purchased in hopes of just having them on the desk. Oh, it was.
They weren't actually in hopes of you putting anything on. We just wanted to get you energized by looking at it.
And so when we brought them out and you were so ecstatic and you're like I'm putting this on it was definitely a little more of a is that actually gonna fit on her like I thought it was just sitting on the desk right like is that a space suit or a skin suit yes sort of a skin tight astronaut suit. Yeah.
Somehow I missed

in the setup because I was so surprised. And, you know, to paint the picture, we're doing this six month long coaching program.
We have our first live training. I'm in the serious studios.
And they pull out all these props. I'm like, awesome.
And I start pulling it on with minutes to go before we're supposed to be live. And I kind of pull it up and it did fit like skims.
I had to like suck way in and do that. You know, like when you try to pull your jeans on, you got to kind of like do the butt tuck to get the zipper to kind of go in.
And then the helmet was so tight, you guys, I had to take my glasses off and my ponytail out to squeeze the child size helmet onto my head. And then I climbed into what was probably a three foot tall spaceship playpen that you might put up at the beach so that a baby could take a nap in it.
And so I'm sitting in there squashed like a ball with this helmet grinding into my shoulders. Why? Because I don't give a shit.
You know what I give a shit about? The enthusiasm and the surprise and delight that it's going to create that I would be willing to do something so ridiculous in order to surprise my students. That's why I did it.
Now, there was a downside to this. What I didn't think through is that I'd be climbing out of this thing.
I can barely get the helmet up over my ears. I get the helmet off and then I have another problem.
The suit is not only so tight that I I have to do a strip tease in front of 5,000 people to get the thing off, but it's got elastic things around the ankles and I can't get over my shoes. So I begin our first live training on the ground, trying to pull this fucking thing off of my shoes in front of 5,000 people watching.
I think it was a pretty big hit. It was a huge hit.
Huge. It was a huge hit.
And it was a good reminder to me, because when I saw these props, and we were putting them together in the green room, I had some concern. But it was, you know, but it was absolutely marvelous, because people were watching the tent.
And people were guessing in the comments of like, I think Mel's in there. I think Mel's in there.
And I didn't know. I didn't even know that you were in there because I didn't think you could fit.
So when you came out of that tent and I wasn't in the room, I was watching on the app. I was like, no fucking way.
And you popped out and everyone went bananas on all of the chat and comments.

It was a huge hit.

It's really a reminder to me of like things aren't that serious and to have more fun.

Next time I'll wear my open-toed shoes, Christine.

That story that you just told about the fact that you did not realize that I was in that

little tent because you didn't think I could fit into it gave me a visual. We spend so much time twisting ourselves in knots about unimportant things.
Just stop and ask yourself, how much time have you wasted rewriting emails because you're worried about it coming across wrong or rehearsing for days what you're going to say or worrying about what other people may be thinking. Right.
It's the same thing as gossip. When you gossip, you train your mind to be petty and critical.
The same thing is true when you obsess about pleasing other people. When you focus on everyone else's reaction, you give your mind the message, I come last.
I'm not as important as other people. I can't be who I am.
Oh my God. You're so right, Amy.
I mean, just imagine if you trained your mind to do something else. Right.
Imagine how everything changes if you get deliberate about spending that same amount of time of energy that you were using to gossip or, you know, to focus on what everybody else is going to do and people please imagine if you trained your mind to focus on just being yourself. Yeah.
I mean, it would change everything. Yeah.
I'm kind of afraid to ask, but did I do anything else that day? I mean, probably. Probably is probably the right answer, but I don't have any specifics.
I do. Oh, God.
Oh, my gosh. Oh, I farted at work the other day.
Jesse, you want to tell everybody about that? And then I took photos of Jesse laughing and put them in the slack. Was that an HR violation? Probably.
Well, that's again, a situation where I saw it and I'm thinking, oh boy. And I, and then, and then before I could stop it, I saw it been posted already.
I can't say I've ever had a boss fart in front of me before. They farted in front of you.
They just hate it. That's true.
But you, you did the like lean on a cheek to make it known that like, this is coming, it's coming, it's coming. And there was no time to run.
We were stuck. And I can't help but laugh at farts.
They're, they're great. It was a memory that I will never forget.
And you did it not once, but twice. Well, you laugh for a

minute straight. Oh, I couldn't stop.
I couldn't stop. It was hilarious.
Could not. Now this is a woman, by the way, who's worked at NASCAR.
She's worked for the Baltimore Ravens and you've never heard anyone at work fart. No, especially if you know, no, especially a female.
how are their toes

farts and toes

farts and toes people

it made my day, so. But you didn't give a shit.
You had to fart. Well, thank God I didn't give a shit because then I wouldn't be able to wear those underwear again.
Too much, Mel. Too much.
Too much. Hopefully they won't edit that out.
Okay. Cameron, anything else? You quit a job at a law firm to come here.
I know. Best decision I've ever made.
I'm so glad to hear that because we think it's the best decision that you ever made to come work at 143 Studios too, Cameron. Is there anything else that I did last week? So Dr.
Amy Shaw was an

expert that we had come on the podcast all about hormones, eating habits, menopause,

great episodes that came out of that interview. She definitely looked up to you a lot as a mentor.

And when she sat down, you asked her like you do with most guests, what do you want me to call you?

And at that moment, she said, Amy, just Amy. And you said, I think that's a bad idea.
You need to be going by Dr. Amy.
And here's why. And you said it in a very graceful way.
She is a double board certified doctor. Ivy League degrees from Harvard and Columbia definitely has the expertise to go by doctor.
And I think that level of honesty, especially in a space where people are kind of walking on eggshells a lot about, you know, what do you want me to call you? What do you go by? And you're very honest about what you think. And I think you do it in such an amazing way that you're walking the line of being a dick, but you're not a dick, obviously.
So giving a shit without being a dick, I think is pretty much the hardest thing to master. Well, first of all, Cameron, thank you.
Giving feedback like that's really hard because you don't want somebody to feel demoralized. You don't want them to go, oh shit, I should have been doing this forever.
But for me personally, I am so committed to helping other women own their power that I don't want to trample on somebody, but I know I'm fucking right. Yeah.
I think at the core of it was just a level of kindness and the amount that you care for people was shining through versus you coming off as judgmental. In many ways, you do give a shit because you're giving really authentic, valuable, and tangible advice to someone who really was open to listening to it.
Cameron, you just gave me this huge wake-up moment. In relationships, I used to struggle like walking on eggshells, tiptoeing around issues.
And I personally look back on that and say to myself, you're a bad friend. You should have told them the truth because you cared about them.
You're not doing anybody any favors if you give a shit about disappointing people or upsetting people, but you are being an incredible friend or family member or mentor or leader or colleague. If you can support someone and tell the truth, you can manage your tone, but you don't censor yourself.
Although I am picking up from this conversation, maybe when it comes to taking off my top in public, I should start censoring myself there. I love all those stories.
They're so great. But honestly, a lot of people struggle with this.
And if you find yourself struggling with this, what do you do, Mel? You know, I mean, you changed, You used to be an insecure, gossipy, people-pleasing, sweaty, stained freak. And look at you now.
You do not give a shit about a lot of stuff. I'm dying to know.
And I'm sure everybody else is too. What are those four things you mentioned in the meeting that can help us just not give a shit? It's a great question.
And I've thought a lot about this because I've worked really hard to stop caring so much and to really focus on things that I did care about. And I have boiled it down to kind of these four realizations, if you will.
And so the first one is kind of counterintuitive. But Amy, if you want to care less, try actually caring more.
Try giving a shit about absolutely everything and see how it feels. I'm dead serious about this.
What? Wait, say more about that. Okay.
So I know it sounds kind of dumb, but how about you turn up the dial and worry more about the shoes that you're wearing? Really worry about what everybody's thinking. Worry about what your boss is doing.
Worry about what's going to happen next week. Then stop and ask yourself, is this really working for me? Does it work for you, Amy, to lie in bed at night and worry about what your friends are doing? Does it really work for you to scroll through social media and think about the weight that you've gained? Does it really work for you to obsess about what outfit you're going to put on and then change your outfit seven different times before you leave the house? Does it really work for you to worry about the fact that your makeup is running and you just want to get a cup of coffee and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like turn up the caring.
And the reason why this became the first thing that I did is that if you're worrying about everything and you give a shit about all this stuff that's making you miserable, if it worked to worry, you'd be happier. If it worked to put more value in other people's opinions, you'd feel more secure.
If it worked for you to obsess about not disappointing people and managing what people are going to think about you, you'd have more time. You'd feel better about yourself.
You'd be a happier person, but it doesn't work. It's true.
I mean, think about the fact that it doesn't help you if you put your hand on a hot stove. You only do that once because you get burnt and you never do it again.
And if you really make the worrying amplified, you're going to realize this fucking hurts and I don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
I mean, it is liberating when you realize, my God, I am robbing myself of my energy, my focus, my confidence by worrying about so much stuff that I can't control and I shouldn't care about. So stop it.
Stop it. That is step number one.
And then step number two, and this kind of goes back to the things that we were talking about when I was sharing about my experience being on CNN and everybody trashing me and how I started to use empathy. And I started to really think about the emotional maturity of the people that criticized me.
I mean, come on now. If you really stop and think about it, the average person has the maturity level of somewhere between eight and 12.
And that's rule number two. Rule number two is use empathy and visualize absolutely everybody that you meet as somewhere between the ages of eight to 12 years old.
It really helps. Most people are about the emotional maturity level of somewhere between eight and 12.
And anytime somebody's gonna be disappointed with you or they're cutting you down, that's literally an eight-year-old throwing a tantrum.

We don't have time for that.

And we conflate adults with adult maturity

and 99% of the population does not have it.

And so if you can kind of imagine your boss

as an eight-year-old,

like I think about the guy that we were meeting with

at Audible, great guy.

I fricking love him.

I hope we do a ton of business together.

I don love him. I hope we do a ton of business together.
But I think about him as like a cool kid, you know, who's playing video games and super innovative and super smart. And it allows me to just relate to him on that human level instead of trying to do that gamesmanship.
No. Think about everybody as between the emotional maturity of eight to 12, and you'll worry a lot less about how they react.
I love that. I do too.
Now, rule number three is incredibly important. And I want to thank my team for helping me distill this down.
Rule number three is when it comes to not giving a shit, there a time and a place for it there is a time for really important standards and following them and a time to amplify your self-expression and a tool that you can use to figure out where are you going to place your caring in this moment. Just visualize a seesaw.
You know how it goes up and it goes down depending upon where you put the weight. And sometimes in life, you put the weight on standards and following social norms.
And then there are going to be those times that you put your weight behind your self-expression and you being fully yourself. I'll give you a couple examples.
So we've been talking a lot about open-toed shoes. If I were walking into JPMorgan Chase World Headquarters, right on Park Avenue, just two blocks north of Grand Central Station in New York City.

If I were walking in there to close a massive corporate training deal, I probably would not wear my espadrilles, despite how much they cost.

Or I would have at least gotten a pedicure.

Why?

Because in that particular moment, I recognize the standards in a large Fortune 50 financial institution. And you know what I value in that meeting at JPMorgan Chase? I value closing the deal.
So I will put my weight into following the standards because it aligns with what I value. Here's another example.
Your job. Your job is a place to pay attention to standards.
Why? You're there because you're getting paid to do something, which means you should care more about the standards and the culture and the operating procedures and the expectation of your job than you might care about those things in your personal life. Why? Well, because you value the money they're paying you and you value the contribution that you're making and you value your job security.
But I have one giant caveat when it comes to talking about standards in the workplace. And I want to take this opportunity to have a conversation with you about it because it is incredibly important.
It is very real. It's very real in work.
It's very real in life in general. And it impacts people's ability to be fully authentically their truest selves.
See, there are a lot of standards, especially in the workplace where discrimination and bias is very real and it impacts people's ability to be themselves. And as a white woman, I have the privilege of never having to deal with that.
I'll give you an example. So I have a bunch of black female friends who do not feel comfortable wearing their natural hair at work.
And it's not just anecdotal. There is incredible research documenting this.
So a recent study from Michigan State, for example, confirms that 80% of black women feel that they need to switch their hairstyle in order to align with more conservative work standards. And a recent study from Duke has proven that black women with natural hairstyles like an afro or twists or braids, less likely to land a job interview than a white woman like me or a black woman with straightened hair.
I mean, that just makes me want to cry. And here I am talking about open-toed shoes and Black women have to worry about their hair and being who they are.
That is so shitty. and that's why I wanted to take an opportunity and why I think it's so important to call out

this type of bias and that's why I'm doing it right now so I want to acknowledge that whether

it's so important to call out this type of bias. And that's why I'm doing it right now.
So I want to acknowledge that whether it's your gender identity or your religion or your race or your sexual orientation or a disability that you have, I want to acknowledge that how you manage this balance that I'm talking about between self-expression and being your authentic, full self and the very real bias and discrimination that exists in social and workplace norms, that is a deeply personal decision and balancing act that you got to make every single day. And it's easy for me to say, hey, hiding who you are is never okay.
Because it's true. I don't want you to ever hide who you are.
But I just felt it was important that I acknowledge that it's easy to say, but it's not that easy to do. So let me kind of layer that into this rule number three that we're talking about, which is there's a time and a place for self-expression.
It is up to you to decide what you value most in any situation. When you think about that seesaw between standards and societal or workplace norms versus your self-expression and you being you.
But here's what I do know. I hope that you find the courage to

choose your values and to choose being yourself as often as you can. Okay, now let's talk about

the fourth rule. And the fourth rule is you go first.
You go first. You cannot wait for permission

to be yourself. You got to be the one that shows up with the espadrilles.
You got to be the one that says, all right, I'll take that child-sized space suit and squeeze into it and climb into that tiny little thing. You got to be the one that brings the fun.
And you got to be the one to decide that you're going to be your full self at work. And what I've found over and over and over again is that by being willing to be the one, to be the one that has the courage to be your full self, whatever that means to you, you free other people to do the same.
Everybody is trapped in some kind of cage, whether it's their insecurities, whether it is workplace norms, whether it is conservative environment, whatever it may be. If you're the one that's willing to go first, your example frees other people.
And what I've found over and over again is that by being willing to put the real me out there, whether I'm farting in front of somebody and laughing about it, or I am willing to look absolutely hideous, like the moments when I leave the gym and I am panting and my eyes are bloodshot and my face is beet red. And I look at myself in the selfie that somebody just took with me.
And I think how on God's earth does Christopher Robbins wake up next to this every single morning with a smile on his face because by God, woman, you are ugly. My willingness to do that, to go first, I know that it's liberating for other people to see it.
Don't wait for someone to give you permission to be yourself.

Don't you dare do that. And one other thing, if you're not comfortable being yourself, either with your circle of friends in life or at work, please stop trying to change yourself to fit into a place that doesn't accept you for who you are.
Instead, put your energy into changing your friend group or changing your job. I love that famous Nipsey Hussle quote, if you look at the people in your circle and you don't get inspired, then you don't have a circle, you have a cage.
And I'm going to add to that quote. If you look at the people in your circle and you can't be yourself, then you don't have a circle.
You are in a cage. And you got to be very careful about this because here's what I've realized over and over and over again in my own life.
It's that my own behavior and my insecurities are almost always what put me and keep me in that cage. And that brings me to a final story I want to share with you from last week.
It's a story about our daughter, Kendall, and how insecurities can put you in a cage. If you follow me on social media, you're probably aware that our daughter graduated from USC last week, and she was given the honor of singing the national anthem at the 140th commencement ceremonies for the University of Southern California.
So we were there. It was an unbelievable moment to watch our daughter sing the national anthem a cappella in front of 20,000 fellow graduates and their families.
So we're talking at least 50,000 people there as she was singing. And one of the coolest things is as she was singing the national anthem and as the song starts to build, you hear the crowd getting louder and louder.
And you can also hear her just coming into the fullest, most authentic

version of who story is... be one of those moments that flashes before my eyes on my deathbed, like a core memory.

But that's not the point of the story. The point of the story is this.
24 hours after that moment, I asked her, so Ken, what was the most surprising thing that's happened since you sang the national anthem yesterday? And she said this, I didn't realize that 99% of my friends have never heard me sing. I'm like, what? She said, yeah.
She said, hearing me sing at graduation was the first time in four years of knowing me that they had ever heard my voice. Now, keep in mind, she is a popular music major.
For four years, she has been performing in college. And just stop and consider that 99% of her friends over the past four years have never heard her sing.
Why?

Because of her insecurities.

See, she gave a shit about what people would think about her singing.

And if you look at her social media,

for the last four years, there was only one post on her Instagram account.

And that one post was of her singing.

But that's it.

Thank you. there was only one post on her Instagram account.
And that one post was of her singing. But that's it.
Now, this is her deepest passion. Her standing before people and singing and sharing herself, this is the truest form of her self-expression.
And yet, she put herself in a cage because of her insecurities. That's so sad.
And I know you're doing it too. That in some area of your life, you are so concerned about what other people might think that you're not sharing your full self.
That's what it means to put yourself in a cage. Now here the good news the door to that cage it's wide open and it always has been i hope this episode has inspired you to open your wings and express yourself your full self because when you drop those insecurities and you stop caring so much about it and you allow yourself to just be you you my friend will set yourself free and in case no one else tells you today I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you I believe in you I don't give a shit what you're wearing or what you look like.
I believe in your ability to create a life that you love. Now, spread those wings and fly out of that cage and set yourself free.
I'll talk to you in a few days. oh one more thing.

It's the legal language.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.

It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

Stitcher. professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
Hey, it's your friend Mel. If you love the Mel Robbins podcast, you're going to love this.

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