‘The Bear’ Episodes 4-6: The Show’s Back, but Is Enough Happening?

Welcome to the Prestige TV podcast, where we might have seen good hair, but we refuse to be energetically musty.

I'm Charles Holmes.

He's Van Lathan.

Together, we're known as the Midnight Boys.

And we're back to discuss season four of the bear.

Van, how are you doing?

I'm fantastic.

You don't want to discuss the bear today.

You really want to discuss the social network today?

I don't think I understand.

Neither do I.

But people are excited.

Who is excited?

Nobody.

No one is excited.

Are you a Sorkin fan?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely.

I mean, I watched A Few Good Men a couple of days ago.

It's a fantastic movie.

It's good.

Did you watch the newsroom?

No.

Crazy show.

I also didn't watch what people define

as defining for Sorkin, which was the West Wing.

I've never seen the West Wing.

I've never seen it.

But anyone who is a West Wing person says that it's one of the greatest shows ever made.

Never saw it.

But I saw The American President.

I saw a few good men.

The social network is a fantastic movie.

Phenomenal movie.

Sorkin is the man.

One of the best trailers I've ever seen.

All right.

But talking about another greatest TV show of all time, we're back for the bear, a little housekeeping.

Guys, Ringer TV is on YouTube.

The videos are on Spotify.

Guess what?

We do other podcasts.

Midnight Boys, we're covering everything.

Superman, Fantastic Ford, Jurassic Park.

We got Sean Fenty coming on for a special episode.

Higher learning, what's going on in the higher learning?

He's coming on what episode?

We're not going to reveal.

He's coming on the Midnight Boys?

Yeah.

I don't remember this.

We're doing a Midnight Course.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh,

I apologize.

That's how you know you're doing too many podcasts.

Yeah, that's how, yeah, I'm excited about that.

Um, higher learning's on.

We're we're zooming.

We're getting in on higher learning.

Check in so much news.

Has it been a strategic pivot for you on higher learning?

Because I've noticed you're getting spicy.

You're not, you really like taking the content to another level.

You're not playing with them anymore.

Where we're going, we got a new audience, and so we're everything's going up.

This is the up moment of all podcasts on The Ringer.

So be a part.

Hell yeah.

Yeah.

But one final thing.

If you guys are looking for Squid Game

Season 3, unfortunately, it will not be on this feed.

But you know where it will be?

Where?

On one of the greatest podcasts that The Ringer produces, The House of R.

So if you want to catch up on everything Squid Game happening, you need to go tap in with our girls over at the House of R.

With all that being said, are you ready to get into episode four through six of The Bear?

So ready.

All right.

Episode 4, directed by Janice

Bravo and written by Io Debrie and Lionel Boyce.

Episodes 5 and 6 are directed by Christopher Storer.

Store writes the former, and Karen Joseph Adcock writes the latter.

We get a Sid-heavy episode in episode 4, where the young chef has to decide between staying with Carm at the Bear or joining Shapiro at his new restaurant.

All white taking care of a young black girl who is having troubles of her own fitting in.

Meanwhile, everyone at the Bear is still reaching for higher goals as they race to turn the restaurant profitable before the clock runs out.

And a heartfelt conversation with Tina leads Carmy to realize that he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

So he decides to forego the Chaos Meni for something more stable.

Unfortunately, this all happens as Sid's father has a heart attack.

And to add insult to injury, Shapiro calls Kami, but we're left on a cliffhanger of what the other chef told our struggling, short little Italian man.

Now, then

last episode, I think we were both on a super high with the first trio saying, it seems like we're back to form, we're in the kitchen we're with the characters that we love did episodes four through six ride that wave was it a little choppy how are you feeling middle of the season so the bears back

now

the show to me

we talked about this before is best when it is

equal parts components if you will equal parts intense the show has to have the intensity we talked about it sometimes it got too intense but it has to have that intensity with the comedy which is really evident in these these are three

more so two funny episodes of the bear to me two very funny episodes of the bear and uh then with

the individual

attention to each character here

a lot of this stuff is less revolving around carmy and that's working for me yep it's working for me that we're not so in the dumps with him, that we're not so caught up in his brooding or what he's trying to find or whatever.

That Carmy's character, while being the center of the story, you know, we a lot of times start with him, we a lot of times end with him.

He's still a part of the ingredients list that makes the show so great.

Five and six were particularly strong.

Four had its moments.

I understand it was supposed to give us a little bit more of Sid.

I wasn't over the moon about four, but I understood why the episode was very important.

But I'm really enjoying watching the season.

The season's funny.

It's full of heart.

Enough's going on.

Everybody's getting a chance to shine, too.

I mean, if we talk about episode four, because I agree with you, what I think is interesting, in the past, I would say these type of episodes, the solo episodes, if we think of like forks, that's probably like a top three, top five bear episode.

We had a Tina episode last year.

We kind of

usually get these kind of like episodes.

And similar to you, it wasn't a bad episode of TV, but I was like, damn,

there was something about it where it felt like something was missing.

And

what I want to ask you coming in is, do you think that

who Sid is going to choose, Carmy Carmy or Shapiro,

the thing that she knows versus the future?

Is that compelling enough, especially when we got so much of it last season?

Where it almost feels like they're stretching this story way past what it can really take?

It's a good question.

It's working for me.

It is getting to a point where they keep coming back to it so much that you're like, okay,

like when is the bubble going to burst?

But

I think everything that happens around show is just increasing

my

anticipation, almost my dread of the moment that that plot point comes to a head.

Yeah.

Even the fact that Carmy told everybody at the restaurant about Sid's father having the heart attack.

I wonder whether or not that's a big deal or whether or not that's going to be no deal at all.

She said, don't tell anyone.

And And he immediately does.

He immediately does.

And I'm wondering whether or not that's going to be a thing.

And that's indicative of good writing because the only reason why I would be so stuck on how

she's going to respond to that is because their relationship is a lot more fraught than he realizes.

He thinks he's doing the right thing.

He's coming to Jesus.

He's asking for trust.

He's re-engaging with her, but he doesn't realize that she has such a monumental decision to make.

So, in his mind, him letting it slip out that her father

is in the hospital might not be that big of a deal.

He's telling the rest of the crew what he essentially has to tell them to make them go ahead and

get on with service and really clue them into what's going on.

But for her,

it could be seen as some type of betrayal

or some

him choosing what's easier for him and not for her.

It could be anything could be the tipping point right now.

I mean, that is actually what I think is working, where it's like, even if it's getting on my nerves, like, what is she going to choose?

Every decision to your point that Carmy is making, even when it's like, we still don't know, because I haven't watched ahead, I still don't know what he changed in that contract.

And we don't get to learn.

Similarly, I don't know what Shapiro, like, I can guess what Shapiro was calling Carmy about, which is kind of like, because I've seen this happen in real life, where

Carmy and Shapiro are on the same,

are on the same level in terms of like where they're at in their career.

And Shapiro's probably calling Carmy, like, hey, man, I'm sorry that I had to take, you know, your best chef, but like, we still good.

And even I'm starting to wonder, I'm like, what does that do to Carmy?

Because, because he goes through the rest of the episode kind of like, just going about his day.

And I'm just like, does he think that Sid is about to knife him?

Like, I don't, that's all compelling to me.

But I think if we go back to episode four,

what I liked about the episode was there's something about Shapiro

that's a little off, that's a little off.

That Sid is almost, and you want to know where this is like.

I could tell Io and Lionel wrote this episode.

I could tell too, black people wrote this episode because when he asked Io, have you seen good hair?

Yeah, I was like, Yeah, don't, don't, don't.

Yeah, well, she walks in there, Anti-Up is playing.

And shout out to MOP,

But, you know what I mean?

She cuts it off and puts on Beethoven.

Yeah.

Right.

Because that's the headspace she wants to be in as she walks throughout the restaurant.

I'm wondering

if this show ends up in a spot where Will Poulter's Luca character comes into the bear.

and stays there more permanently because Sid leaves.

I was about, I was going to ask you this at the end of the episode.

Do you think we are on a trajectory?

Because I'm like, when Luca came back, this season has been very, very careful about not overloading us with guest characters.

But when Luca comes back and he's staging, I'm just like, are we leading to a season five where Sid is with Shapiro?

Carmy is with Luca, and we have a kind of classic, like succession did this really, really well of just like when the siblings would go off on their own.

Some would stay with dad.

Kendall would be off over Which sides are people on?

I would not be surprised if that is a storyline we are heading towards.

Wouldn't be surprised either.

And the question then becomes: what happens if the Bears have been a restaurant with Luca?

And what happens if Shapiro's restaurant is humming with Sid?

It's,

are the relationships

in this world,

can they

survive professional, professional, listen to me?

Can the relationships in this world survive survive professional fracture i mean and even because we still have that dangling plot thread of

it seems like they're on their way to getting a michelin star it seems like um someone who works for the organization was there on the night that everything was humming and i could see it being

sid helped this place get to that point and she leaves at the moment where she can't even bask in it.

They win, but they lose.

They win in terms of maybe even they're profitable.

They get the Michelin star, the whole nine, but maybe they lose Sid.

And it feels like there are things that are happening in each character's life that make these decisions a little bit more important

than what they normally would be.

Her father having the heart attack.

Her father having the heart attack will probably make her crave stability.

Yes, crave, because he's talking about, hey, we're going to get full health insurance.

She's going to get paid more.

It's just, it's, but also the thing that I think, why it's always interesting when you look at someone like Sid and her being a black woman in a very white male industry is also what's interesting to me is that sometimes I feel like when you are a black creative, what people don't understand sometimes is like.

Sometimes it's a lot easier to be next to a white person who is not overly trying to be a good ally.

Where it's like Shapiro seems like, to your point, he's playing Auntie up.

He's asking if she's seen good hair.

He's saying all the right things, but almost in an annoying way where it's like, hey, I'm more than my blackness.

Can we actually like talk about the food and talk about like, you're doing too much?

Where it's almost like Carmen, they could not be less PC.

Like they're real.

These are real Chicago people.

Like, hey, yo, we're sorry, but like.

This is what we do.

And it almost seems like Sid craves that environment, even though it's something that she's like, she does not like the toxicity of it.

Or maybe she,

she doesn't know how important it is to her.

Maybe she'll learn.

Maybe she, I mean, this was the whole thing about episode four.

She was asking the question about,

and that, that back and forth is so fundamental with people.

The grass is always greener.

Yeah.

But does it feel as nice to lay on?

That's the question.

Sure, the grass might be greener.

But is it softer?

Do you like brown grass a little bit?

Because when you lay on it, you're used to it.

Yeah.

Right.

And so

there's no doubt that Shapiro's grass is greener, no doubt.

But will it feel as good?

And she doesn't know.

She really doesn't know yet.

I will say, but also you've probably been here.

The best jobs I've had, especially when I was younger, I'm talking about like fry cook, whatever, restaurants, whatever.

Most fun jobs I've had are usually the most toxic workplaces.

Like restaurants, whatever.

Everybody hates the boss.

We all like it's

and there is this weird pull like yo they in the trenches with me this is my family we going out

you about to get me talking man let me tell y'all something let me tell y'all something it was a fucked up place but tmz was fun man

we have fun man that's why it sucks so bad like just to be honest with you And this is, you know, a prestige podcast.

I don't want to get too personal.

It's about the television show, but, you know, my father died and there were a lot of my old co-workers from tmz that didn't reach out to like say hey van it sucks that your father passed away and all of that stuff like that that's because like once you're gone from there it's kind of like uh you're out of the cult yeah and that sucked because to your point

it was fun and it was kind of us all together uh even sometimes it was toxic it was us against the regular industry it was us sometimes against Harvey.

It was us banding together.

And then like you don't realize how those types of places where you can really be your

not true self, but where people accept you at your worst.

How sometimes that's kind of what you want.

It's weird.

We want everybody to try their best, but we want everyone to accept us at our worst.

And like sometimes you have more trust for people that accept you at your worst and that show you their worst than you do for people that are trying their best.

And it doesn't make any sense.

I mean, and that's what I think Sig clocks when she's around Shapiro where she's like, oh, yeah, he talks too much.

And I'm just like, but that's the exact thing that you demonized Carmy for where he doesn't talk enough.

He doesn't clue you.

He doesn't keep you abreast of anything.

And it's so funny when she finally sees the thing she wants and she has like i don't know if it is her niece or just like like a family friend interesting it's her cousin she said it's my mom's cousin so

it's if i mean she it was interesting even there she didn't say my cousin because like if it's your mom's cousin then if it's your mom's second cousin then it's your third cousin you know saying so it's her mom's cousin so it's essentially her cousin But I, it was so interesting because her little cousin is just like, I don't know the house with the pizza.

It sounds like it's really, really dope.

And in that moment, for the first, I feel like for the first time, we're actually starting to locate how important the bear is to Sid.

And Sid is realizing in that moment, she's like,

fuck, I do like my toxic workplace.

I actually love it.

She's defending.

Like, and there was even that meta moment where I'm like, this season seems like it's very meta.

When like the cousin is just like, so you like him?

She's like, I don't like Carmen.

I was like, yeah.

I see y'all.

Right.

You know what's interesting is that the little cousin doesn't want to go to the nicer school.

She wants to go to the school where her friends are.

But she doesn't.

Sid is telling her, hey, this school is nicer.

It's got a better education for you.

Probably have nicer uniforms.

Probably have all of this stuff.

But she doesn't want to go to that school.

You don't want, you don't, you want to go to where your friends are.

Like, you want to go to where everybody knows your name.

Like, when it comes down to it, all of this stuff, this big life thing, it's about feelings, man.

Yeah.

And,

you know,

you hope that money

and success and achievement bring a better feeling.

Because like when we look on TV, we go, oh, you know, it must be nice to be Leonardo DiCaprio and be on the boat and all of that stuff.

I bet that feels good.

And we look at it like that, but we don't know if it does.

And so with Sid,

she knows that sometimes it feels shitty at the bear, but she's connected to those people.

And when it feels great, it feels amazing.

And the question is, would you take consistent okay

over sometimes wonderful?

Yeah.

And it's a hard decision to make.

And it was funny because it's like, as someone who has like or even consistent good who's worked at a charter school that was very just demonic.

It was funny where I could even see, I don't fuck with charter schools, but

even seeing, because it served black and brown kids in New York, and even going into the schools sometimes where it was split in half, where one would be a PS, whatever, and the other would be a charter school.

You could even see that

the people who were just from the place, like were just from the neighborhood or whatever, who are going to the regular PS school, they talked in a certain way, they bonded in a certain way.

And the kids who were with the charter schools, who had mostly white teachers, all the new shit, whatever, there was this even cultural barrier.

And it happens even when you go to college.

My friends would go to like an HBCU versus a state school versus this.

There are things that you lose.

Maybe like on paper, you get a better education.

Right.

But in terms of just like, oh, feeling like you belong here, you're around people that you grew up with, people who look like you.

Those are the things we have to decide.

And when I, it was an interesting episode with Shapiro where I was like,

I don't know if I would want to work at Shapiro's restaurant.

He almost, he did seem annoying to me.

The first, I was like, I don't know if I would.

I'm actually just like Sid, I know that I would want to.

I don't know if I would like it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I know that I would want to because

it feels like everything would be better.

I just don't know if I would like it.

And she doesn't know.

These episodes were funny, man.

Like, I looked at certain scenes.

I'm like, I re fell in love with all of the characters.

These episodes were funny, particularly

Sugar, who I think is a delightful character.

I think Sugar, she's always been great.

I don't, you know what it is?

I think Sugar being outside of the bear and having to come back in now gives those scenes a lot.

Like when she's bringing the babies around, she's telling the facts.

Fuck no, like, because I've been around monsters.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know who don't get to hold the baby.

Who is Francie?

We don't know yet, but it's the fact sister.

It's the fact sister.

We don't know what she did it seems like it's either their sister or their cousin or whatever but we don't know what francie did it francie is brought up by pete and then uh sugar loses it sugar is sweet almost to a fault except when you bring up her the scene where fat comes in and he's hiding

because

to where he has to tell her i invited her to the wedding and she gets so mad I watched it back like three times.

It's so hilarious.

What does he say at the end when he's like,

am I still, he says, something like, am I still your favorite little boy?

Am I still your special boy?

She goes, no.

You have devastated me.

Well, also,

I think sugar is hilarious this season.

I know this actress, I forget, I'm blanking on her name, but.

Claire, I think, is doing a really phenomenal job in the season.

I thought the scene between her and Io

in the sixth when like Io, like there's no one in the hospital and like Claire has to come.

Because I was just like, oh, not only are these actresses really good, but I'm like, oh, this feels like a TV show again, where it's like you are giving characters room to grow.

And now that you understand more about Claire, you understand more about Sugar.

You're like, oh shit, I could not imagine the TV show without them.

Even the facts to me are way better.

They're so.

What was the

actor who plays who comes in to help Ibra?

It's Rob Reiner.

Rob Reiner.

Rob Reiner.

Carl Reiner is the dad.

Rob Reiner.

Rob Reiner.

I know him.

He was wonderful as Justice's dad on New Girl, but he's.

Obviously, we guys know Fantastic Director.

I want you guys to listen to this run by Rob Reiner.

I've been on episodes of the American President, excuse me, not the American President, of the Rewatchables where we talked about him.

But for those who might be uninitiated, 1986, Stand By Me, 87, The Princess Bride, 89 with Harry Mitz Sally, 90, Misery, 92, A Few Good Men, 94, North.

That's a little bit of a miss.

The American President goes to Mississippi all the way up to the American President.

That's a fucking hell of a run.

Why don't people talk about that run more?

I mean, I think they do.

I think they do.

I think that

it.

Sometimes when a guy's particularly in that type of run and it's happening, If those movies, I mean, obviously, when Harry Met Sally is a classic all-time movie,

but directors are remembered more for

how can I put this?

Everybody knows Rob Reiner is one of the greatest fucking comedic directors ever.

And Misery is like even not so much of a comedy.

I could argue that The American President is a comedy, but it's more of a rom-com kind of serious tone.

But there are guys that have these lists, that have these runs that you kind of just fucking forget

how amazing they are for the time that they're in their wheelhouse.

But I don't think that he's underrated at all.

It's fucking Rob Reiner.

No, no, no, not underrated.

But actually, you want to know what I actually think it is?

He's also making movies at a time where it's just like, now we have things like the fucking big pick, and it's just like, we're like, talking about directors all the fucking time.

You know what I mean?

He's like, yeah, look,

he was a very familiar and is a very familiar in America cultural figure.

He got a start as an actor on All in the Family.

So, you know, that thing was, they called him meathead on there or whatever.

So people knew him.

And it was almost like a Ron Howard situation to where you saw a television actor that everyone knew.

And then all of a sudden, he, and he's never stopped acting, right?

Because he also was in.

If you're a little bit younger, you remember him from The Wolf of Wall Street.

Yeah.

Right.

So he never stopped acting.

He's always been acting, always been funny, but he's a legendary director.

So when I saw him and I see him moving around good and he's still sharp, I know he's got spinal tap coming out and all of that stuff.

It's good to see him in this.

Back to

the bear.

These episodes, they were funny, they were good, but there was a feeling where I'm like,

is enough happening?

And what I mean by that,

I could not really tell you major differences between like episodes five and six, where they almost,

this entire season besides the aisle part,

very much feels like,

it feels like the clock.

It feels like every day is the same.

They're trying to beat this thing.

We keep seeing the shot of the graph going up and up or down and up.

And I'm like,

I'm starting to realize why this is a binge.

Does that make sense?

Oh, no.

I think, look, I completely agree.

I think this is an andorization

a little bit

of television.

So

not to get too wordy on this, but

why do I keep saying that?

My name is Van Lathan, and I fucking talk a lot.

All right.

That's why I'm a podcaster.

It's interesting to see the cultural shift on this.

At first, Netflix comes out with the binge model.

The binge model is the way that we consume the stuff that's happening on the streamers.

We get used to that.

And the shows know that we're binging this stuff.

So they give us things

that

are not really reliant on cliffhangers every episode.

It's every two or three episodes because the story is told in two or three episode arcs.

They know that you're going to watch them all, but there are only a couple of pressure points within the season where you're going to be like, oh my God.

And other than that, stuff is kind of running together.

Then it changes.

When the streaming wars begin, all of these networks go, we want to maintain people's attention over a long period of time.

The first show that I remember that did this was The Boys.

The first season was A Binge.

And we all got into the show.

It was like, oh, my God, when it comes back,

now.

Amazon is trying to carve out or Prime Video, should I say, is Amazon Prime Video.

The fucking Amazon fucking fucking owns the thing.

And so

they want to hold you there a little bit longer.

So they're going to now give it to you in

one episode per week doses.

People fucking revolted.

When that first happened with the boys, it was a lot of people that were going on there and one starring that season because they wanted it in a binge.

We got used to that.

I don't think the narrative of the shows, a lot of those shows could handle it because it's a different way to make television.

I think that for a lot of the the shows that we've gotten accustomed to watching, they just don't have what it takes to maintain our interest from week to week to week to week to week because

there might not be enough story.

Or you need to be a show like The Pit is a show where it's like, we are designing this show to be a hospital every week procedure.

We're releasing it a week because like they know they're just like, we're following in ER.

There's still something about like police shows, like cop shows or hospital shows.

I'm saying it doesn't work for every show.

I don't think it would work for the bear.

It doesn't.

It wouldn't.

The bear is short enough to where you can watch two or three at one time.

And then also

the bear for it's very artistic.

There are parts of the bear that are like our little music videos.

Yeah.

To where it's all the music.

And you could if if you had to wait until next week to get another episode and you get like like a one-minute musical montage, you're like, no, come on, man.

Like, I need the shows have to be more.

That's what makes it hard to do this podcast.

Because, like, after, like, I don't want to watch ahead before we pod.

Sometimes I'm like, I just want to fucking finish the fucking season.

But I also,

what I want to know is there was something that happened.

I think this was, I want to say it was the sixth episode.

I want to finish what I'm saying real quick.

Oh, yeah.

That's it.

Andor knew this.

Yeah.

Andor

was a big prestige show

that tried it.

Like, either ways, but Andor was like, let's give them the arcs.

And we're covering it in three episode arcs, which is very smart by you and Justin Sales, who made up, who were like, this is the way we're going to cover it.

Let's cover the ARCs.

Because if we tried to cover this

episode by episode, I don't know that there's enough in each individual show for us to be able to go through it.

Not enough happens.

No, I agree with you.

And it's funny that FX

stuck to this model this entire time because I think after the first, I think it worked for the first season.

And then with the second, third season, I think people were, well, at least for the second,

people were like, dog,

I want to talk with my friends about this for the entire summer.

And then the third season dropped and motherfuckers revolted.

So I do think that this is a show that I'm like, oh, if you do a season five, it is a good feeling of being like, oh, shit, I have like a two-week period where everybody in my life just cares about the bear.

That's all we're fucking talking about.

You know what I want to do?

And if Justin's around, you know, listen to this.

I want to do a special prestige TV episode.

On what?

Mahoney.

Joe.

Joe.

Chuck Wagon.

Man, Latham.

It's called Binge or No Binge.

Binge or No Binge.

Not binge mode.

That's a yes.

But the question is:

for where television is right now,

particularly with these streamers,

binge or no binge, we look back at the history, the current, and the future of the binge model.

A prestige TV special event, binge or no binge?

Binge.

Justin fucking green light it.

Justin just green lighted.

For episode six.

Yeah, give it up.

Why do you think it was Tina who got through the Karm?

Why was it Tina that got through the Karm?

Because remember, if she's talking to Karm, and Karm is having this moment of just like, they have to go from three components to two, they can't pay the farmers, and she's the one who has to kind of pull him to the side like a mother figure and be like, hey, yo, I know you're chasing something, but you do not have to chase it.

You are the shit.

And it was like he didn't listen, he wasn't listening to computer or his uncle or Sid or anybody anybody else in his life, but it's finally Tina who's like, yo.

So

my first answer is I don't know.

But if I had to guess, it's because Carmy has a problem with authority.

And if you have a problem with authority,

if you want to be a Maverick,

You might not listen to someone who can tell you,

but you do listen to someone who will tell you.

So the can tell you people are the people whose job it is to edit you.

I had a very

old mentor.

I say very old, I mean like not, I mean, the person is older, but they also, this was a long time ago.

It says, just be careful who you allow to edit you.

Because anybody that you give the permission to edit you will.

So you have to make sure that you trust that person.

Right.

But

if it comes from someone that is

below you,

particularly if

you're somebody that has a problem with authority, you might listen because it resonates with you that your authority affects that person.

See what I'm saying?

When authority affects you, you want to go, hey, I want to be free.

But when your authority affects somebody else, you go, hmm, am I putting in this person in the right place to succeed?

They don't have anything over you.

So I don't know, but I would guess when she told him that,

he probably looked at it as, look,

you're making it harder for you, but

in turn, it's harder for all of us.

And

if that comes from computer or whatever, he might not care that

computer or uncle,

that it's harder for them because it's like, hey, I'm an artist.

You can't hold me back.

But if it's harder for her, it might resonate with them.

And I think also the thing that's interesting with Tina is like, she's not like Sid.

And what I mean by like, Sid comes into the beef and the bear

after Carmy's brother is dead.

So she does not have that connection where it's like Tina's just like, I know your family.

I know you.

I've stuck around for all of it.

So I think sometimes like she, like, Tina is this interesting character where she is under

Carmy in the in terms of like the orc chart, but in terms of like mother figures, carmy hasn't they're like carm you still haven't seen your mother in god knows fucking how long and it seems like tina's the only person in that place

who is that maternal figure where it's just like i'm telling you this because i love you yeah and he's just like it was this moment it was this really nice moment seeing like jeremy allen white like realize the acting that he's doing is carmi being like oh fuck if tina's telling me this of all people

i've royally up and i think the thing that i've been wondering this entire season is: is the real tragedy of the breakup?

Because I do think Sid and Carmen are going to break up, is that Carmen's actually going to change and it's too late.

Where it's like he's actually done everything to get the bear to where it needs to be and successful and a Michelin star and Luca's there and fucking everybody.

Everything's crank.

It's perfect.

And the moment Sid decides to leave, she's just like, because I've had this at work where it's like you fight for something so much at a job and shit changes after you leave, and you're like,

shit, I didn't even get to life.

Remember the Godfather 2 when

Fredo and Michael are sitting down in Cuba, and Fredo has the banana daiquiri, and Michael's, he asks him, he's like, How do you say banana daiquiri?

And then he goes, uh, banana daiquiri, and he says it.

And they're having a good time and they're talking about all of this stuff.

And Fredo goes,

Mike,

why haven't we spent time like this before?

And that's because he already knows that he has tipped off, even if he didn't try to, you dumb bastard, Johnny Ola and Hyman Roth to Mike.

He already knows that he's betrayed Michael.

So he's like, God damn it, if we'd have just been like this before, then maybe I wouldn't have felt like you were looking past me.

I'd have felt more important to you.

It wouldn't have been such a big deal.

It always happens.

It always happens that just when you realize how much something means to you, you've already decided to like give it up or go or go next door.

Do you think that there's no way that, does it feel like we are on that track?

Where that is, because the more episodes I watch, I'm just like, I don't know.

Carmy has an ego.

I could see Carmy getting that call from Shapiro.

So it's interesting what happens next.

Because what happens next could either be that Shapiro lets it slip that Sid is coming over, which then activates Carmy to confront Sid.

Then Carmy confronts Sid.

Sid says, You told everybody about my dad, and then we have not washed ahead, guys.

Um, and then we get into that whole situation, or

in some way,

all of this stuff happens in this episode.

They agree to go their separate ways,

and then the wedding

is an episode where everyone makes their final decision.

Because another thing that's happening in the season right now is this wedding is shaping up to be a very consequential thing.

Everybody's going to be at the wedding.

Which is also great TV because it's like, now we have Carmy

wasn't going and is like

Them forcing him to go is like, oh, it's like, oh, so Carmy's whole battle is I'm going to a place where all my family is he's been in chicago for god knows how long right now he still has not reunited with his mom maybe i'm wrong um they say in an episode yeah he hasn't reunited with his mom and i think that's going to be probably the bigger biggest gathering he's had since his his um his brother passed because he didn't go to the funeral we have richie who is like do i go do i not go having to swallow his pride now having panic attacks having panic attacks and now there's francie who is like looming over sugar and we don't know what that is about so to your point it seems like claire

claire will be there the facts invited claire claire is going to be at the wedding this is a very godfather

italian what is it with italians in weddings i don't want to speak on it because i'm not one of them but

i don't know what happens you don't know what happens at italian weddings no i don't want to say either because it's like you know i'll just say the same thing that luca said i hope your first child is a masculine child there you go.

I don't want to speak on it.

They get mad.

Can you say that still?

I hope your first child is a masculine child.

Will you get canceled if you say that?

I mean,

you could say, but like

it depends on why you're saying it.

We need to fucking go, bro.

They got to say that.

It depends on why you're saying it.

It depends on why you're saying it.

If you're saying that you hope the first child is a masculine child because of some age-old patriarchy that the men have to take over or whatever.

But if you're just saying that.

What's the 2025 version?

What is the PC version of that?

I guess the PC is,

I hope your child is a liberal child.

Hey, look,

I'm just saying it's for everyone.

You don't have to be a liberal.

You can listen to this.

And if you are at January 6th,

you can listen to this podcast and enjoy it.

It's okay.

It's okay.

I'm sure you know people that was at January 6th.

No, don't do that.

Justin knows that.

I know Justin knows some people who aren't.

Justin actually knows motherfuckers who's at January 6th for sure.

Which podcast is it?

The Ringer Rats.

Yo, this has been a very special episode of the Prestige TV fucking podcast.

All right.

We will be back.

We have two more episodes.

We're going to be doing the next trio.

Then we're going to have a special finale episode.

Make sure you join us for that.

Thank you to CT behind the boards.

Thank you to Justin Sales.

I didn't get to thank him last episode.

Thank you to fucking Kai Grady.

He's

the greatest.

But it's Donnie now.

It's Donnie on there.

Yo, shout out Donnie.

I didn't even know Donnie.

Donnie, you back there?

Sweet booty.

Yeah, man.

Hey, shout out Donnie behind the boards.

And yo, we'll be back very, very fucking soon.