Slow Horses,' Season 5 Episode 1: New Season, New Track Suit

Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed.

I'm Jordan Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

And we're here to cover Slow Horses Season 5.

Rob, TV, it's here.

It is truly here.

I'm thrilled to be back.

And I will say, I think Slow Horses is thrilled to be back too.

It's a real like, let's get, let's get back to basics kind of setup for the season that I am incredibly excited about.

So we're going to talk about the season five premiere.

So you haven't watched that yet.

Please go watch it and come back.

Season five, episode one, bad dates, which made me think of Adiana Jones.

I don't know how you feel about that phrase.

But so we will be talking about that.

We also have some like slightly broader context about this season, about

the book it's based on.

No spoilers, though.

Neither of us have read the book that it's based on.

Neither of us have watched ahead, of course, or watching week to week.

But I did sort of ferret out some context that might be helpful in helping us process what is going on with Slough House this season.

We're going to be covering Slow Horses week to week.

It's only a six episode season, so we'll be doing that week to week.

We are, of course, have our ongoing task coverage,

usually with one William Simmons, but who's to say what the rest of the season will look like?

And then

we will have a finale for our hooked miniseries.

We're doing the Sopranos at long last.

So that is what is happening on this feed.

It's a lot.

How do you feel about that, Joe?

About you're finally, you know, like we are both new to the Sopranos, but how do you feel about finally dipping into that world?

I'm really excited, actually.

I don't know.

We will be, I'll be watching the pilot, obviously, and then whatever,

you know, episode we've asked our listeners to sort of give us us some ideas of what a good hooked episode would be.

We're going to have a guest who's going to have an opinion about what a good episode might be.

This will just be like a toe dip into the world of the Sopranos.

But as you've discovered with the hooked miniseries that we did, it's hard not to just keep going once you start with some of these incredibly classic shows.

So I don't know.

What will my identity be, Rob, when I'm no longer the person who talks about television but hasn't seen the Sopranos?

Who am I anymore after that?

I don't know.

It's going to be a hard look in the the mirror for both of us, you know, really facing down our flaws as TV commentators, if not critics.

Like, again, what are we supposed to do once we knock this one final thing off the list?

Well,

come on.

Usually, we ask our listeners to email us, presscv at spotify.com, and you can always do that.

But, Rob Mahoney, this is the first time I believe one of our bespoke emails has come back around

for a second dip into a season of television.

So, what was the special slow horses email that we came up with for season four?

Some of our best work of all time, Joe.

That email is arstimethepope at gmail.com.

That is A-R-S-E-T-I-M-E, the Pope at gmail.com.

And I would encourage people to use it.

You know, not that it really matters.

We're going to read your emails anyway, but it brings me great satisfaction when people use it.

Something I've noticed is I think people get more excited to email us when there's a sort of special email involved.

Like we had the basic email for the first week of task, but the second week of task, once you hit DJ Grasanova, the email is just severely.

People just get excited about typing out our time the pope or whatever the case may be.

So this is season five.

This is critter Will Smith's last season.

How do you feel about that, Rob?

That Will, who we've talked to before, who is departing the series, how does that make you feel about about relishing these six episodes?

I mean, I'm certainly going to be relishing.

It makes me a little bit nervous just because this show is such a machine, right?

Like, they know how to make it.

They know how to churn out these seasons.

They know how to keep it on time.

They know how to get the actors in and out.

They know how to get the edit done.

Like, Will Smith has done such a great job in this era of waiting roughly a lifetime in between seasons of, I don't know, Stranger Things,

just keeping us with, you know, a steady supply of actually good TV.

And I hope that continues.

I'm sure it's still, you know, the cadence of the the show is expected to continue apace, but I'll believe it when I see it, when someone else is at the reins.

We also want to mention, you know, we're recording this a couple of days after the Emmys

happened, though, you know, it will be even longer once this actually airs for you to listen to.

Slow horses won Outstanding Directing in a Drama Series.

Adam Randall won that for the season four finale, Hello Goodbye.

This was a win that we were a little,

we love Slow Horses.

Oh, yeah.

I would say we both agree that season four was maybe not our favorite season, not all the way through, but sort of by the end, we were a little like, is this what we want?

I think

you and I and Chris Ryan texted us about this sort of uh before we had a chance to watch the episode that this felt like a bit like a return to form in this episode.

So I'm really excited for season five, however, I felt about season four.

Is there anything you want to say about the Emmy win

in your larger

prestige TV thoughts and feelings, it's complicated because I never want to begrudge a Slow Horses win of any kind because we love this show.

But we do.

Rewarding the finale of the least Slow Horses season of Slow Horses, I do feel mixed about.

And I especially feel mixed about it up against some of the amazing direction that was being done.

For example, on Severance, like our favorite episodes of Severance by Jessica Lee Gagnier in particular.

It's like, I think that's an all-time directorial performance.

And the fact that

it can't even pull the Emmy in its own year is kind of crazy.

It's tough.

It was really tough.

Yeah.

But as you say, we love to see Slow Horses awarded.

I will say, like, when Will Smith won the writing Emmy

the previous year, like, I, you know, shouted from the rooftops.

I was so excited.

This was like, it feels like more of a...

we want Slow Horses represented in this Emmy year more than like this specific or

this stands in for the whole season because as we've mentioned before in Slow Horses coverage,

they are sort of single-director seasons of television.

So, Adam winning for the finale is sort of Adam winning for the whole season.

And the director of season five is Saul Metstein, who directed season three as well.

A great season of Slow Horses.

Also, Rob, the phenomenal Doctor Who episode, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship.

So,

just something like that.

That is a banger, truly.

Just something to think about.

So, anything you want to say,

you know, before we get into some book context, and then we'll sort of break down some character moments inside of this episode about where we left off in that hello, goodbye finale.

Anything like contextually that you were, that was on your mind as we went into this episode about where our favorite characters were at the end of last season?

I mean, my chief concern was...

How are these characters going to be looped in together again?

They were strewn apart.

They were pulled in different kind of interpersonal directions.

It was like every character had their respective traumas over the first three seasons, and then they got channeled into their own little, into their little silos.

I think especially in Rivers' case.

My big question for the season was: is River going to be back at Sloughhouse, or is he still going to be powling around in some foreign country?

And I'm delighted that the answer so far is that he's back and he's back in the mix with the other characters that we care about and that we know and love.

And seeing their dynamic again, that's what I wasn't positive we were going to get in the, you know, the regular intervals that we did in the first three seasons, but it's what makes slow horses feel like slow horses to me.

This episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures.

One battle after another is coming to theater September 26th.

Don't miss legendary writer, director, and producer.

My guy, Paul Thomas Anderson, teaming up with Leo DiCaprio.

for the first time ever.

Pretty exciting.

They almost teamed together in boogie nets, actually, alongside award-winning actors like Sean Penn, Tiana Taylor, and Benicio Del Toro in this hilarious action-packed adventure following Bob Ferguson, an ex-revolutionary on a mission to find his missing daughter and overcome the consequences of his past.

One battle after another.

Only in theater September 26th.

Get tickets now.

Rated R under 17, not admitted without parent.

Chris Ryan texted us and was like, hey, have you guys watched the first episode?

Neither of us had.

And then I just immediately did.

And then I came back to the group text.

You hadn't watched it yet, though.

Um, so I didn't want to say this in the group text, but I was thinking about you a lot because I was like, This episode has to both really excite Rob and then really depress Rob.

Because, yep, your two people are,

I would say, Shirley and Louisa, right?

Like, you're a Shirley head and a Louisa head.

This is setting up a great Shirley season,

and we needed one, honestly.

Like, she's been given some some scant material, I would say, at times in the last couple years.

But you're your girl, Louisa.

I don't know because I, I, once again, I have no book spoilers.

I don't know, but like, is this it for Louisa?

Do you feel like this is a genuine exit from the show and from the plot, or is it going to be just when she thought, you know, we got a real don't call me, I'll call you moment from Louisa at the end of this episode.

Heartbreaking, yeah.

But is it just going to be like she's immediately pulled back in?

Is it a mid-season pullback in, which which is only like two episodes from now?

Like, what do you think is going on with your girl?

I am willing to accept that this could be her final season.

I am not willing to accept that this is her last appearance of this season.

And in fact, if she is not back by episode three at minimum, I'm going to be furious about it.

So, you know,

whatever person I need to write an angry, sternly worded letter to, whether that's Will Smith or otherwise, about a work of art that's already been completed and shot and edited and sent out for, you know, sent out for distribution, I'm willing to do it.

I think there's enough reason to believe that she's going to hang around.

Like the stuff in this first episode with her and River is so great and is so heartbreaking that if that's the last of that relationship we see, I just think that would be, that would be gutting even by Slow Horse's standards.

And so I just, I am choosing to believe that she is still in the air somewhere.

Going out on an unwanted kiss is not the way you want this all to wrap up here.

But a very wanted, I would say, the moment of the episode for me is in response to the unwanted kiss.

The look that she gives her followed by the raspberry dismissal is just perfect, perfect television.

It's pretty tremendous stuff from both of them, honestly.

Okay.

I want to give, if you'll indulge me, some book context for this season of television, as is my want.

So this is, you know, we've already talked about the Slow Horses book series.

We got a lot of listeners in our season four coverage who had read the books, sort of wrote in with some thoughts, no spoilers, but just sort of like adaptive thoughts and stuff like that.

This show is an unusually faithful adaptation kind of show, unusually like faithful and loyal to the books.

This is based on the fifth book in the series, London Rules.

And just some context on that, published in 2018.

And it's not like London Rules.

It's like the idea of London rules, which is...

I was waiting for it,

which

gets brought up in this episode.

We'll talk about that in a second.

But well, look, Joe, I will say it depends on who you ask.

I think there are political factions within this first episode who their stance would just be London rules.

Yeah, maybe that should be the campaign slogan for the Gimbal Party, perhaps.

At least it could rule.

If it were tougher on crime, it could, in fact, rule.

That's a real like Hail Britannia sort of idea of London ruling.

Okay, so this book was published in 2018, and it is definitely McCarran dealing with the 2016 Brexit referendum vote.

That is definitely like the background of his focus for this book.

From what I've seen, again, no spoilers of just sort of trying to see like what, do people like this book?

Is this a well-liked book in the series?

It's a lot of people's favorite book in the series, it seems like.

And the general consensus is that it's darker, more viciously pointed politically, but funnier.

So darker, yet funnier, which

sign me up, sounds great.

Yeah.

As you might expect having already watched this episode, it's a Roddy season and it's a Shirley season is sort of what is promised.

And can I share, since we don't have the benefit of like voiceovers

or

your Mileage Mavarian voiceovers, but since we don't have voices from Slow Horses.

Can I share some dueling passages that I saw somewhere?

Because we're inside different characters' heads inside of these books, right?

So I'm going to give you a Roddy POV and then I'm going to give you the immediate Shirley POV that follows it.

Okay.

I would love it.

So this is this is Roddy.

Neat little goatee in a baseball cap, originality plus style.

Roderick Ho was the complete package, the way Brad Pitt used to be before the unpleasantness.

Okay, so that's, and then immediately after you get Shirley, Ho looked basically like a dumb tourist who had been ripped off twice already, once by someone selling hats and a second time by someone giving away beards.

So that's just like the push and pull, I guess, of London Rules that, you know, we've already seen a taste of in episode one.

How excited does that make you to have this idea of like a Roddy Shirley?

This is very much an ensemble.

River is back in the mix.

We're all sort of together season.

But if we had to sort of like isolate it, it's kind of a Roddy Shirley season.

How do you feel about that?

I'm thrilled about it.

I mean, especially the way that their two plot lines are kind of intersecting at this point, which is Shirley is hyper-vigilant in her PTSD and seeing threats everywhere, including

what doesn't seem to be a credible threat to Roddy specifically, even though he almost got hit by a moving van.

It was more just kind of like she was right about him almost getting hit by a van.

She was right about some circumstantial things, but wrong about the way all the pieces are fitting together.

And so the fact that she is trying to help someone who doesn't believe he needs to be helped, who doesn't see himself as being in trouble, but seems to be being targeted for wholly irrelevant or wholly side reasons.

That's kind of a thrilling concede for me.

What do you think exactly she's wrong about?

I think, look, the van, let's take it like from the origin moment where she pushes Roddy out of the way of a moving van.

This is the van we see the assassin of the assassin get back into, flee the scene of the original crime.

Like, I don't believe that the driver of that van, which presumably is the sniper, is trying to hit Roddy specifically.

I think he is trying to get away from the scene.

And so she is taking it as a threat in the same way that Slough House was just targeted at the end of last season when there was a full-on assault that they had to fend their way out of with a kettle

and is choosing to see that as like a targeted thing versus a circumstantial thing.

Okay.

I think they are connected.

I don't have any like absolute concrete evidence about that, but I just think the way that these things happen in slow horses, they usually do wind up being connected.

So I wouldn't be surprised if it's not just a coincidental that van was leaving the scene of a mass murder and just happened to sort of like nearly buzz one of our main characters.

You know what I mean?

Like I feel like

it's all connected, but again, I don't know.

In terms of the argument, Joe is surely right.

I'm willing to go along with whatever train you want to take that down.

Surely reading River to Filth in this episode.

Pretty phenomenal stuff.

Okay.

Really great.

London Rules is a title.

The show version, which we hear part of in this episode that we've heard a couple times from Rivers, Grandfather, et cetera, is Moscow Rules, Watch Your Back, London Rules, Cover Your Arse, right?

Like

that's the idea.

Can I read you quickly the book version of this?

Yes.

Which is, if Moscow rules meant watch your back, London rules meant cover your arse.

Moscow rules had been written on the streets, but London rules were devised in the corridors of Westminster.

And the short version read, someone always pays.

Make sure it isn't you.

Nobody knew that better than Jackson Lamb, and nobody played it better than Diana Tavener.

So

I was thinking about that passage specifically.

And, you know, we will, this is not the focus of this episode by any stretch of the imagination, but the thing that it immediately pinged for me is that our guy, James Callis, who we were just talking about in Battlestar Galactica, plays Claude Whelan, who is bumming his way already through this episode.

In the previous season, there are things that were set up in season four that are paying off here.

Roddy's catfish experience continues apace this time

in the real world.

But Whelan's

eminently vulnerable to blackmail because there is just dirt out there.

And so, if this idea is like, cover your arse, like

what

what kind of pawn is he going to become to people who want to leverage him?

Again, this is not anything I know about, but I'm like, of all the people who are like most invested in covering their arse and are most in danger of being exposed, he seems like a prime suspect to me inside of like what the characters we know already.

You know what I mean?

Especially within the mechanism of, you know, we have this inciting incident with this, you know, mass shooting in a shopping center.

We also also have the kind of background of the mayoral race in London that's happening in real time.

And, you know, Claude's chilly dismissal of Gimbal's wife, Dodie, in particular, who is his wife and campaign manager and a tabloid journalist who already has an adversarial relationship with him.

She feels like she could be an easy mechanism to pull up someone.

Exactly.

Like, you know, again, just someone who, like, the politics of London at this time are factoring into not just the shooting, in which the shooter already owns some of Gimbal's books in particular, which he refuses to accept, but like the fact that all this stuff is going to get tangled up in the way that the crime is painted in the press and the way that's understood by people.

And as you're alluding to with the London rules, like who is taking the blame for this stuff ultimately?

Like Claude has a lot to say about who is going to take the blame and it's sure as hell not going to be him.

We'll see.

We'll see, man.

Let's talk.

So we open with this attack in Abbott's Field, and that is often the case with the Slow Horses season, that there's like sort of of a big inciting incident, right?

And this is, as you alluded to, slow horses seasons are done a long time ago.

This was shot a long time ago.

It happens to be coming out right when we here in America and, you know, ramifications globally are in the thick of our own conversations about

political violence,

lonely white men who are susceptible to influence on message boards.

You know, we're always having that conversation, but we are very much having that conversation right now.

Um, so how do you feel, Rob, about

um,

you know, this in this in larger environment?

You know, we don't obviously the book is not making a

comment on this particular moment in our history.

No, the show is not making a comment on this particular moment in our American history necessarily, but it's you know, we are recording this the day after Jimmy Kimmel's show, uh, you know, got pulled by ABC.

Like, there is a lot of heated feelings about this.

How does it make you feel watching this episode and thinking about,

you know, we don't have to go too deeply into it, but it's just sort of like, I don't know, this is the context we're absorbing this particular story in.

Yes, I would say it's kind of twofold.

One, there is just something that is always chilling, especially in these particular times, about watching a young guy silently pull an assault rifle out of a bag and just gun down people in a public square in like such an indiscriminate and dispassionate way.

It's like, it's very chilling to watch.

And I think Slow Horse is at its best, even though it's taken the piss out of so many things.

Usually the violent acts at the center of these seasons or the plots at the center of these seasons are dastardly, evil, distressing stuff.

And the miracle of the show is that they can make you forget that with fart jokes.

And the balance of that is the alchemy that makes Slow Horse is so successful.

But this was one of those moments where

I could not help but think of the baggage and the way that an American audience receives an episode like this versus a British audience.

In particular, like this idea of a mass shooting, like 11 people are killed in the shooting.

There has not been a shooting of that scale in the United Kingdom in like 15 years.

Here in America, a mass shooting is like, it's Thursday.

You know, like, this is just kind of what happens around here.

They literally did just have one.

Yeah.

Completely.

And so the idea of what we watch and how we're watching it for those two audiences in particular, it's like, I would love to hear from anyone who is watching the show in the UK, anyone who's watching the show from a country that is not America, and how something like this lands with you, if this hits in the same chilling way or if it feels sort of abstracted into novelized spy violence in the way that it kind of is.

Yeah, it's interesting.

It reminded me of the conversations we had around the guns

last season, because the conversation about like arming the people in Sloughhouse inside of this episode comes up.

And it reminded me that when we talked about this last season, we were got, I think, a a bit of an extra education from our listeners about the idea of, you know, people in law enforcement in the UK and how rare it is to have a gun inside of that space.

And so, yeah, the different are

really depressingly different approaches towards violence and gun violence

across the pond.

But I think what we are trying to do here with this mayoral race, we've got Nick Mohamed, who, you know, most American audiences know from Ted Lasso.

If you are

a UK fan, you might know him from his incredible turn on Taskmaster or

his persona, Mr.

Swallow, or whatever.

I'm a huge Nick Muhammad fan.

I'm really glad that he's here.

Um, you know, playing this, you know, they've changed it from the book that it was like sort of a slightly more obscure, like West Midlands mayoral race.

This is the London mayoral race, right?

So, the stakes are like a little bit higher, obviously, on that.

So, Jeffrey, as this incumbent mayor, this um

hope v hate dynamic that is set up by his by his followers uh in the opening scene before the massacre um

this

idea that in 2016 as london uh

votes for brexit they also elect sadiq khan who is london's first muslim and ethnic minority mayor who uh is still mayor of London.

But like that, that is definitely like a real world comp that's in the mix here

for McCarran as he puts this together.

What do you think about how, you know, we see the two mayoral candidates talking as talking heads on the news, sort of in the background after the massacre.

And then we go into, I'm just going to like take us directly over into the mayoral debate, seeing what you've already talked about a little bit.

Like, how is this all piecing together for you in a sort of political arena?

I mean, so far it's all very recognizable left and right stuff, right?

It's like, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, as is basically always the case with slow horses, it's never going to be that simple.

It's always going to be a fair bit more complicated than that in the end.

And in fact, like, of all the players who could be kind of gnarled up and twisted and leveraged, I mean, Jaffrey seems like he could be the kind of guy who gets caught in something and forced to compromise in ways that are, you know, against his messaging or his values for sure.

Right.

It's interesting.

Um,

Nick Muhammad did this

really interesting small smile moment when Claude reveals to them that the shooter was a gimbal supporter.

There's this like tiny little smile on his face that he quickly smothers in the sort of, you know, think of the human cost

sort of demeanor that he's putting on.

This thing that gimbal calls him out for.

Why are you talking like this?

There's no one here.

You know what I mean?

Like, why are you performing in a way?

Totally.

And it is because he is kind of talking in platitudes.

You know, I'm inclined, perhaps because I like Nick Muhammad so much or whatever, but I'm like inclined to think nice things about this character.

But

they also want that.

Yeah, is there a way in which, you know, they've already mentioned twice this idea of like a false flag or a stitch-up, you know, is there a version of this story where

Jeffrey, either with the help of his chief of staff or not, has, I mean, that's deeply dark.

He's the favorite to win, but like, has orchestrated something like this or is at least slightly involved, or is it just, I'm going to benefit from this, and so I'm going to take a small amount of personal satisfaction from that?

What do you think?

I mean, at minimum, he is a political operator, right?

Like, I think that's what we see in that moment where he cannot separate himself from like the stump talking points or kind of like the very politically rote thing to respond to in a moment.

Like, it's the there's no for all the warmth like that he brings as a performer, it's all kind of like washed away in political blandness in that moment.

I think like that's a great, that's a great way to kind of stage this character and also the juxtaposition, as you said, with an actor in Nick Muhammad, who we are inclined to like and who audiences, especially in like a post-Ted Lasso world, having seen both sides of it, I think are still inclined to like.

But having that as a baseline allows him to play against type.

It allows him to kind of skirt the line and for us to kind of figure out where he actually stands with this stuff.

It's interesting.

This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter.

Keeping your house clean when you've got a cat is no easy feat.

But with Pretty Litter, you don't have to choose between a fresh house and a healthy cat.

This litter is practically magic.

It's low dust, controls odors, and lasts up to a whole month.

But the best part?

It monitors your cat's health every time they use the box.

Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door, so no heavy bags to carry and no last-minute pet store runs.

Right now, save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at pretty litter.com/slash prestige.

That's pretty litter.com slash prestige to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.

Pretty litter.com slash prestige.

Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases.

A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian.

Terms and conditions apply.

Seaside for details.

This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K26, a favorite of my sons and me.

All right, quick break.

NBA 2K26 stacked this year.

Gameplay, new motion engine, smoother catch and shoot.

The rhythm shooting is dialed in.

My team added the W's.

Now you can get Caitlin Clark pulling up from deep.

Larry Bird talking trash mid-game.

Jokic casually dropping triple doubles.

It's absurd in the best way.

My career has a whole new storyline.

The city's tighter and you're on the court way faster.

I've been playing video basketball games.

I think the first one was early 80s.

I'm stunned.

Like when I, when I go and my son's playing with his friends and I go in and I barge my woman and I start playing with them, I'm just amazed by how good, how detailed all the games are, how they really look like NBA players.

2K26 is finally here, and yeah, it is absolutely loaded.

If you care about basketball, leave them a little, you're checking it out today.

Ball over everything.

This episode is brought to you by Paramount Plus.

Sylvester Stallone is back as the ultimate kingpin Dwight Man Freddy in the original hit series Tulsa King.

Now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus.

This season, as Dwight's kingdom expands, his enemies close in.

Now he faces his most dangerous adversaries in Tulsa yet, forcing him to fight to protect his empire.

Watch the new season of Tulsa King, now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus.

Learn more at paramountplus.com.

I was fascinated.

So

Krishnan Gurumurthi, who is like a real UK journalist, is playing the debate moderator here.

And that's an unusual thing for Slow Horses to do, I think.

So again, like they're not really shying away from how

much they're playing in the real world politics of London, of the UK.

But I think what's interesting about this season, I'll be curious to see how local we keep all of this because, you know, as we ask questions about Roddy's girlfriend, as we ask questions about the shooter of the shooter and all of the sort of

factions involved there,

what is present so far is less of like, there's a big giant Russian conspiracy, or um,

you know, Rivers' dad is, you know,

farming super soldiers in France or whatever.

And this is just sort of like, let's look within what is the rot inside of our own system,

our own society, our own culture, um, that we can examine, which I think is an interesting flip on some of the sort of more global someone's gonna fly a plane into a building stakes that we've seen in other seasons.

I think that's why it's like it feels like season five and season one in particular are kind of in conversation with one another in terms of that so like that that particular kind of socio-political intrigue and who is doing it for what reasons and kind of the theater that is laid over it.

That's like already where we're starting with this season.

And like I really like the creation of these two characters and kind of their respective aides in terms of the campaign manager, in terms of Tyson Bowman, the 6'6 chief of staff who's gonna like leg press a school bus at any moment.

Gimbal, too, like for a character who like you're clearly set up to think of a certain way.

I love the way that character is being pitched and played so far.

I love the potential for what it can do to the plot and how it's going to kind of drive and push some of these other characters in the frame.

And, you know, Joe, as one, you know, from one bestseller to another, I'm curious if you have a favorite of the, you know, the great gimbal works.

We've got the Bulldog's Spirit, The Englishman's Burden, and Pride and Empire.

Which would you say was your favorite?

I think The Englishman's Burden as a sort of spin on the white man's burden is

going to be my pick.

Can't wait to read all of them.

They all sound like they're full of great ideas, ideas that really resonate with me.

So

thanks so much for doing your freeze frame best here, Rob.

Well, I think along those lines, I did notice all from the same publisher.

So you know those are fucking hits.

That's like a, okay, the first one really landed, and we got to lock this guy into a three-book deal after that.

I will say, I honestly think the character that I'm most excited about is

Dodie.

Victoria Hamilton is an actress who's, you know, tabloid journalist who just like swans in talking about octorunes and calls Claude Dame Whelan and all this just like deeply nasty shit, right?

Victoria Hamilton is an actress who I know best from like early aughts period pieces, and she was always really good at like being catty in a very British kind of way.

And so I'm really excited to see see her here.

And I'm really excited.

Like, what a repugnant person.

And, but what an entertainingly repugnant person, you know, potentially to watch this season.

So she seems like an incredibly tough hang.

And yet we all have to just sit back and acknowledge that her saying that Claude was looking for James Bondage is just a great line.

Like, look, I don't care what anybody says.

Like, you just got to salute it.

She knows a head.

She knows a deck.

She knows how to hook readers.

She gets just like a sort of great villain walk-to-camera moment while her husband's like, shouldn't have done that.

Like, that's just exciting,

I think.

All right, let's, well, let's go back to Slough House and let's go to our guy Roddy.

Chris Chung, who was doing a bunch of press when he was in town for the Emmys, is really aware that this is like his season, his time to shine,

and gets an iconic entrance to Simply Irresistible.

Dancing through the street, running into women, and as they like protest that he has jostled them, he's like blowing them kisses, like, hey, babe.

How's your time with Roddy been so far this season, Rob?

A goddamn delight.

Come on.

Like, I think, you know, it's not just the new track suit and the pink highlights.

It is the flexing of like a very specific kind of confidence that can only come from like an improbable and inexplicable inexplicable new relationship, right?

Like, he is feeling himself in a way that a character who already was as brash and overconfident as anybody at Sloughhouse, and that is saying something, but he is hitting a totally different level that I'm having a great time with.

I love the way that, like, Shirley, who absolutely despises him, but like, Shirley in the club had to be like, I kind of get it, actually.

He's a good piece of meat.

I don't know what to tell you.

I could see it, you know?

I see the vision.

in Shirley's tracking of Roddy to the club and all that sort of stuff, and all of her snide commentary about his girlfriend, uh, her like sort of delightful scene partner, and a lot of that is Catherine.

And Catherine is just seems seems like Catherine Sanders seems like she's just right folded back into the office.

This is a big plot of the previous season, is sort of like Catherine's out of the office.

This does not bode well for Louisa leaving the office, to be honest with you, but like Catherine is just seems to be fully back, right?

Like without any sort of bump in the road, she's just entirely back in the mix.

Back in the fold, seems up on everything that's going on.

Like, I just kind of, and I would say, you know, one of her part of her evolution over the past couple seasons when she's been in the office is like getting out into the field more in this sort of capacity.

And it was nice that there was no moment from Shirley that was like, why are you here following me?

It was more like, why is anybody following me?

Like, don't, I don't need babysitting, but it wasn't alarming that it was Catherine who was doing the babysitting.

But I do love that Catherine's like, I'm not going to blend in this club.

I'm going to need River.

I'm going to need you to come over.

I don't blend.

Also, there's River blend?

Absolutely not.

No.

Enjoy your shitty music and your shitty club as his parting message.

Okay.

I'm going to use Catherine as a way to go over to Lamb because this is actually like a lamb, a very lamb-light episode.

I think, weirdly, Joe, a lamb and and taverner-light episode.

Oh, a very tavern or light episode.

And, like,

gets some zingers in there, which we will talk about certainly, but

very peripheral.

But something I will tell you, again, I don't know spoilers from this book.

I don't know spoilers from the season.

But a vague thing that I saw was potential lamb backstory, more lamb backstory, which is something, you know, we've gotten some tidbits here and there, but like inside of this book is potentially more information about how Lamb wound up in Slough House, which I kind of thought we knew, but like maybe there's just more to the story that we don't know.

But if they go a little light here, only to go much heavier later in terms of like

peeling back the layers of this character who is intentionally like pretty just shrouded in a

cloud of noodle funk and farts.

Wait, did you see Will Smith's promise?

What did he call it?

He promised a, quote, weaponized story-based fart this season.

Wow.

We've already gotten one.

I remember him like hotboxing somebody in a car until they did what he said.

Like, it has happened before, and I look forward to the more creative deployments in the future.

Excellent.

Excellent stuff.

Anything else you want to say about Lamb in this episode?

I mean, we did not get a fart in this episode, but I thought we did get some phenomenal cough acting from Gary Oldman, who is just like killing himself deliberately via cigarette, if not just by his diet.

And as usual, the way he kind of uses all this stuff as a defense mechanism, the way he uses it to kind of shoe people out of the room by being gross, or in Shirley's case, the way he kind of like protects her with his own incompetence, the like, I don't even remember where I put the gun, and so therefore you can't have it.

When, look, there are five million reasons why Shirley should not be holding a gun right now.

And Lamb, I thought by his standards, is quite gentle about it.

I think that

inside of that exchange about the gun, we get this information about how he covered for them with the whole Marcus shootout at the end of last season.

Not that we would doubt it, but it's interesting to me that he reminded her of that.

It's interesting to me that they're all sort of existing in, you know, as if Sal House wasn't already run down.

We're just like walking around in the open construction area of a massive violent attack that happened in the very heart of the organization last season.

Shirley is a walking, as you said, like PTSD case, and she is constantly surrounded by shot out windows and like broken down walls and stuff like that.

She's constantly reminded.

And I was, I re-watched just the, you know, Emmy winning finale of last season

to really, really remind myself of where we left off.

And so

The moment that Shirley,

we get the shot.

We hear the shot.

We don't see Marcus die, but we hear the shot.

And then Lamb comes in and takes care of some business with Shirley, something like that.

And then Shirley wants to go out to find out what happened to Marcus.

And Lamb tries to stop her, right?

He's like, don't, don't go look.

Like, he knows, he already knows is going to be terrible for her, but, but he knows it's going to be even worse for her if she goes.

And then she goes, right.

And then also...

In that same scene when Ko is trying to talk Shirley down a little later from shooting

River's half-brother who's tied to a radiator.

He says about Marcus to Shirley, he loved you and he wanted you to love yourself.

That's how Ko talks Shirley out of shooting this guy.

And so

in the scene we get in this episode where Shirley is playing River and talking about the drugs and like thinking about Marcus like that.

Like she's playing him.

But is there also truth inside of that moment?

Like how much she is being haunted

by, it's not just that, like, if they get one of us, any of us is vulnerable.

It's not just that we were only armed with a kettle and couldn't defend ourselves.

It's that it's Marcus specifically who was Shirley's like partner

in the last two seasons.

And that it was on their home turf, too.

I think that like the invasive quality of him being killed in what was supposed to be like their space, I think is so different than if he had gotten killed in like the tiger team shootout in season three, right?

Like it just registers for a character like Shirley in a totally different way.

So I mean, look, clearly she's carrying a lot of damage.

Slow horses is a show about that sort of shrapnel for all of its characters.

Like these are fuck-ups.

These are people who have gotten people killed, who have been responsible for killing the wrong person who ended up in Slough House for a reason.

And Shirley is showing all of the reasons why she is here.

She is diving off of balconies into clubs and just decking people.

She's pulling delivery guys off of bikes.

And yeah, she tells an occasional sob story to get her Coke back, in part because it's true, but also because she really wants her fucking Coke back, please.

Yeah.

I

her having, getting the best of River, who is an absolute like monster to her inside of this episode, is phenomenal stuff.

On the co-front,

if this is a light Lamb or Tavener episode, this is a like Featherlight Ko episode.

Ko is like a character who comes in last season, Tom Brooks character.

We get very little of him last season.

He's just sort of lurking about, is his vibe.

How much more do you want of him this season?

Or do you like?

I mean, I thought his little like jump scare moment

was really good.

But do you want him to continue to be this like sort of lurking jump scare figure?

Or

do you want, do you feel like there's room inside of this Shirley Roddy

mayoral race season to expand Ko?

Or are you like, maybe we'll wait till season six or something like that to get more of him?

What do you think?

That might be a season six thing.

I think you just nailed it, where it's the mayoral race, it's this shooting, it's, you know, if we are getting Lamb backstory, if we are bringing Louisa back into the fold, and we're getting Shirley and Roddy as like central figures of the season, that's just like a lot happening.

And in particular, a lot of expansion of Shirley and Roddy, two characters who kind of needed some of that rounding out in terms of the way that they're shown.

And so, if we also get like the co-episode or, you know, he becomes like a more prominent front stage performer within this ensemble, like that would feel a little weird to me.

I like him in this, like, the jump scare, or in the case of last season, the character who's like kind of saving one of the slow horses from themselves by virtue of leaning into what, like his brutality, right?

Like, he is willing to take that on for their sake.

All right, let's talk about Louisa.

Here's my question to you.

As the number one Louisa fan, as far as I know,

we'll miss you always, Min Harper.

You know what?

I would even argue I would beat Min in this, you know?

Oh, really?

Okay.

Well, fair enough.

Okay.

He was working on it, I would like to think.

Louisa, I would like you to imagine Louisa gets out of Sloughhouse.

She's out of the game.

She has a diamond hidden in her

carpet.

The diamond.

Fucking diamond.

In her ice cream, in her freezer.

In her Ben and Jerry's.

What is Louisa doing

with the diamond in her

no longer a spy life that she's going to be leading?

Yeah, when she says she wants to be among normal people and have a normal life, she means sell a diamond and never work again.

So I guess guess that's a kind of normality for somebody, but I wouldn't know it.

Okay.

I hope she travels the world.

I hope she has a great time

and never works again.

But actually, do because we will miss you on the show.

So please come back soon.

This is the tension, though.

Like, none of these people should be here.

None of them should be in active duty anymore.

They are pretty much all uniformly fucked up in addition to being fuck-ups.

And so, like, Louisa, one, theoretically taking a mental health break, that would have been a good thing.

But two, also just leaving the service.

healthy for her, if not, as you said, good for us.

Hot bummer for us.

Okay, let's talk about our guy, River.

I'm not done talking about Louisa.

I just want to bring River in and say,

you know, her asset, her, her, like,

Thames side armchair psychology assessment of him is that he was deeply emasculated.

He's like, what do you mean I won?

And she's like, calm down.

Shirley calls him profoundly asexual.

He's on the Tesco run.

You know, and this is a guy that throughout the series has felt like he's too good for Sloughhouse,

that he is a fucking hot shot.

And here we see him grappling with like 10 Tesco bags and he's he's on dip, like, right?

He's, he's taking care of the spread for the party.

Um, he's being dressed down by Shirley.

He is being rejected if you want to call it that by Louisa.

Louise is just like, you read that signal entirely wrong, my friend.

Um, well, can we, can we stop there for a second, Joe?

Look, he clearly was not listening to anything Louisa was saying.

The things she was saying were not, kiss me in this moment.

That said,

the I want to feel something and also grab your bicep move.

Like,

I'm just saying some signals got crossed.

I'm not saying anyone actually wanted anything.

Rock

things got mixed up.

Are you taking as she was asking for it stance on the spot?

No, no, no.

I'm not taking taking as she was asking for it stance.

I'm taking on if you were River, a guy who at this moment cannot make heads or tails of anything.

I can understand how he fucked up.

That's all I'm saying.

Oh, yeah.

I'm not.

I don't think it was like an egregious move.

And you may recall that in season four, from like the minute that they are like.

Sharing a pint together in the pub and talking about his grandfather, the beginning of season four, I was like, are these two going to get together?

And you, Rob, were like, get him away from My Louisa.

I don't want it.

I made it.

I did.

I'm not for it.

And so when they kissed her, I was like, it's happened.

And then it wasn't, it's not happening.

It was not happening.

Yes.

Again,

in Rivers' defense, I would say I don't even think he wants it so much as he's just like out of his mind at this present moment.

And I think the thing that is, you know, the end of season four, however, we felt about the finale, I was so profoundly moved by the sequence where he drops his grandfather off at the care facility.

He talks about, about,

you know, his confusion.

He talks about how, you know, he used to tell me all these stories and now he's, I don't know if it's a plot of a movie or not, these stories that he's telling me.

But even more so than that, I would say,

I mean, there's the emotional familial capacity of it.

But in terms of like Rivers' identity as a spy, if you felt like you could always go

to

the old bastard's kitchen and make him some lemon chicken and get some great advice on what to do, what the next best move is.

Now, listen, was his advice always good?

No.

But if that, if you felt like I've got my anchor, my true north, and this is someone who has always instructed me and will always instruct me on what to do, and that's no longer.

uh you know available to you

and then your dad sucks and tried to kill you multiple times.

Put a grenade in your hoodie that Louisa had to fish out, you know, like all this sort of stuff like that.

Like, look, it's, it's rough parenting, but it is a style.

Okay.

Ralph's like, none of this soft, gentle parenting for me.

Thank you very much.

Anyway, so, so, you know, people are taking cracks at River.

Great stuff.

Genuinely hilarious for Shirley to call him profoundly asexual because it's Jack Loudon who's about to be Mr.

Darcy.

Like, we're this is, that's not who he is.

Though the way that he reacted to it, the way that he asked for it by being like, do you think anyone's checking me out?

Like, all this stuff is really good.

But I just really like where we're finding River here, which is like an opportunity.

The slow horses don't usually take opportunities, so he may not take it, but an opportunity to redefine himself on his own terms outside of, you know, I am my grandfather's shadow or I do what he tells me to do or, you know, all that sort of stuff like that.

And who are you on, you know, with your own feet under you?

And so far, I'm not deeply impressed, but there's opportunities for him to grow.

And

what do you think about River in this moment?

Yeah, and his evaluation, a lot of areas for improvement, to say the least.

I think we can go through the list, but

what I like about that setup is that, of course, River and Lamb are always going to have a relationship.

River and Tavern are have a kind of relationship.

But the central kind of tension points for him in this episode are with Louisa in what is kind of like the short-term dissolution of their friendship in a certain way.

Like she's asking for a level of space and a remove, not just from the service, but from him that is like

devastating.

And I would say the most somber use of the Slow Horse's score yet in terms of the notes that we're hitting after she said, like, no, I'll call you, extremely tough stuff.

But also with Shirley, like their kind of mutual ability to see and call each other on their bullshit, but not recognize any of their own stuff, I think is just a hallmark of the human race, to be sure, but also like a good framing device for these characters, right?

Like, these are two people who, again, in their way, are like trying to help and look out for each other, but River is so abrasive and his bedside manner is so bad in terms of trying to help Shirley that she is just kind of like repulsed by him in this moment.

And honestly, she's not doing like a ton better, but she can see through him in a way that he can't see through himself.

This This idea that, like, and it was established, you know, after we lost the world's greatest character, which is Min Harper.

Um, once Min left, there became this like River and Louisa, and they openly state in this episode, we're the only normal ones here, right?

We're the only normal ones.

If you're on my side now and you want, if you're rooting for Louisa and Harper, like you let me know, I don't.

We welcome you on this side of the Thames.

There are smooches, galore, it's gonna be great.

Um, anyway, the fact that he's like, we're the only normal ones.

And now

it's him.

And he's not normal, but that's okay.

His riverness bouncing off of Shirley.

I thought like

him and Shirley, like, we had some questions about Shirley and Marcus as like a duo.

Like, you know, as this setup for her

pain the season, it's incredibly good.

But there were some some ways in which that dynamic was running a bit on fumes and felt like a bit circular.

But like River and Shirley

electric inside of this episode.

great.

River and Co potentiality.

I don't know.

That's exciting.

You know, like more jump scares for River from Co.

Like, what is River?

We have yet to see him inside this office without Louisa there to help anchor him.

And so he's not, I think, I hope going abroad again.

So

what is River?

I'm too good for this place.

And now there's no one else who's even remotely like deluding themselves on my level that we're normal here.

How am I going to operate in here?

That is very, a very juicy setup for this season.

So I'm excited.

Especially when he's expanding his skill set.

You know, we've seen what he can do as a spy.

We are now seeing what he can do as a party planner.

Again, some room for improvement, but like

when it's time to get the Watsits in the bowl, he gets the Watsits in the bowl.

That's the important thing.

Very nice.

The tea is served.

The tea is hot.

We're doing it.

He's got some notes

on Roddy's quips.

He's just trying to help him out.

It's all good.

As we wrap up this episode where Roddy is being set up

for

who knows what doesn't look good, be it a B ⁇ E, be it murder, be it something else.

I don't know.

Seems like a long way to go for murder

when you could just like shank him in the club or something like that.

And then Shirley's right around the corner on a pizza delivery bike.

Like, do we open next week's episode with

some sort of threat on Roddy and Shirley just sort of bumbling in fresh off the bike, like, you know, with a piping hot pepperoni?

Like, what do you think is going to happen?

I mean, that's certainly been her MO so far.

It's just like, go for it and deal with whatever comes as a result of her like brash, impulsive actions.

I think the one thing I'm curious about is you see, you know, many, many notes about Roddy's interaction with his like would-be girlfriend in the back of this taxi.

For one, when he's leaving and she kisses the inside of a cab window, absolutely fucking not.

Simply, no.

Like, she's clearly on a job, and she has this, her, the character's name is Tara.

She's clearly on a job.

She's clearly been doing a valiant effort of like fending him off from not only like sex, but even just like making out.

Like, she's doing, she's doing her level best.

But, Tara,

don't put your mouth on a London cabby window.

Absolutely not.

All right, what are your other notes?

No, this is how plagues start.

But as they are kind of canoodling and embracing and she is dodging his attempts to make out with her,

you see him kind of like clock something behind her.

Like maybe it's something in her bag.

It seems like he has a moment of recognition that he sees something that is.

Oh, really?

I hear you.

I think I know what you're talking about.

My interpretation of that, and again, you might be right, but my, so maybe like Roddy's ready for what's coming for him.

My interpretation was he was like

a disappointment, like, I can't even get this kiss, sort of like, what's like, like, a sort of like, what's going on, but not like, I physically see something, but just sort of like, gosh, you won't even kiss me.

Like, I don't know.

That's a sobering moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you could be right.

I don't know.

I mean, look, she does say that it's very powerful that he's willing to wait, which I think is the greatest tell that we had of all the incredible evidence in this episode that she was not in this for the quote-unquote right reasons, but clearly on the job, clearly has something going on.

And there just could not be a clearer work text in the world than the one she sends with full punctuation about him entering her department.

What was your interpretation of her face as she sends full send, period, you know, full stop, sends the text, correct

capitalization and everything.

How did you read her face as the cab sort of sped away?

Oh, I actually didn't have a very good read on it.

Do you have any inclination on that?

Here's two possibilities.

One,

oh no, I can't believe I kissed that window.

I am going to have the play.

I already feel the flu coming.

It felt, it looked a tiny bit to me like remorse.

Like, I'm sorry for the role that I'm playing in this.

But I could be wrong because Roddy is insufferable.

But

I don't know.

There's, it felt like a little bit like, I feel bad for my role in this, but maybe I'm being too charitable to someone.

I do really, I liked her.

High pony.

I thought she looked great in the club.

I'd like to see more Tara.

I hope she goes back.

All right.

So we have a couple like three little sections that we've been doing at the end of Slow Horse previous Slow Horses episodes

that we're going to do some versions of today.

The first one is Spy versus Spy, which is

best piece of spycraft, worst piece of spycraft inside of this episode.

So, Rob, what would you say the worst piece of spycraft is inside of this episode?

It's got to be Shirley dive bombing a dude from the balcony for pulling a bottle.

Like that has to be it.

It's one of the dumbest things that any slow horse has done in any season.

What is clearly an aluminum bottle of beer?

Like clearly, like could not be clearer.

Like it's not, it wasn't even filmed in a way where you're like, could that be?

No, it is clearly what it is.

PTSD, but that is also, of course, my pick.

Yep.

But best piece of spycraft, I'm also giving to Shirley for being the person to like hunt hunt down footage.

She has very little information to go off of.

It's combat boot focus.

She found the boots.

She found the boots.

She has boots on camera, as Catherine says, but like she's the only one who's taking this seriously and is trying.

And so I'm going to give it to her for her tenacity

in pursuing this thing, which might be, as you said, it might be just a coincidence.

It might be misguided, but she's on the case.

She really yanked that guy off the back of his pizza delivery bike.

And um,

I'm for her.

I am with you in the sense that, like, I think Shirley is kind of barking up the wrong tree, but there, I think there will be something connecting Roddy to this other kind of plot and shooting.

And maybe it's as simple as, like, look, the dude has been catfished before, he seems to be catfished or being played again.

Like, is there a non-zero chance that Roddy has at least lurked on the incel forums?

It seems like it's at least in play.

Oh, theunseen.com.

Yeah, I think, I think he at least has a username on the unseen.

I don't know if he's posting out there.

Arsen thepope at gmail.com, if you know what Roddy Ho's username is.

I mean, I think we've seen his username in the other chat rooms, but what would his username be on theunseen.com?

Okay.

This is a Rob Mahoney special.

This is something you came up in Slow Horses season four, which is what we're calling the lamb shank of the week.

Before we move on, Joe, I didn't give my best spy craft, which I want to give a particular acknowledgement for a character who I thought just had a real rough go of it in season four.

Not quite a spy, kind of a spy, but I thought this was a much better Emma Flight episode

where she actually

gets some wins.

And most importantly, like, if you don't want this character to look like a dunce, don't introduce her opposite Jackson Lamb and just have him run circles around her for basically the entire season and certainly their first meeting.

Give her her own dunce to run around.

In this case, Fuckability Phil, who simply demands mention on this episode.

I'm so glad you mentioned that.

Thank you so much.

Also want to shout out Devin Wells, a new character who seems to be like sort of her second in command, who also left the force.

And my understanding is gender swapped from the book, but it's nice to have, like, give her someone to work with who is not like.

Diana Tavener, who's being an asshole to her, or Jackson, who's running circles around her, or something like that.

Like, yeah, have some competency coming from Emma would be a great start to the season.

So I love that.

I am, Look, I have one huge question coming out of this episode, which is: where is GT?

What's going on with her?

Where is Giti?

Well,

did she disappear?

Did she get funneled away into a back room somewhere?

I think she's on a tough desk assignment somewhere, just like in a back room going through files, which, to be fair, is what GT loves to do.

So maybe she's doing exactly, you know, maybe she's doing exactly what she wants to do, which is just

drudgery.

All right, Lamb, thank you for the Yamgiti.

Okay, Lamb Shank of the Week.

As we said, this is a light lamb episode, but he nonetheless gets some zingers in there.

So our sort of like our favorite lamb line or favorite lamb insults of the week.

Rob Mahoney, what's your lamb shank of the week this episode?

You know, not only was it light for Lamb, I thought it was, again, quite kind and gentle by his standards.

I would say, as far as actual lines go, his saying that Roddy getting hit by a car by accident accident would deprive somebody of a moment's pleasure is probably the candidate.

But the actual best shank, I think, is the fact that in his phone, he has Catherine saved as old soak.

Like, that's just fucking brutal, and for no audience whatsoever.

Like, that's just for him.

Oh, my God.

Uh, incredible, incredible stuff.

I think him

telling Louisa, why don't you make a paper airplane or rubber band ball, make yourself useful?

Um, is

uh, not as not nearly as good as old Soak, but pretty good.

And then

there's a book change I wanted to point out because

I saw this line, like, I saw someone mention this line from the book, and

maybe they'll use it later, but

he says our band of Never Rands, that's what he calls them.

He's like, you know, they can't help themselves, our band of Never Rands.

In the book, he says, our band of Jason Stillborns,

which

I think is

perhaps too spicy for Apple TV Plus, but

Jesus Christ.

I mean, maybe you can't have it in the same episode as you have James Bondage.

You can't do James Bondage and then Jason Stilbourns, but

that if you had to pick and choose, they chose the wrong one.

Jason Stilbourne is really good.

It is spicy, but it is quite good.

It is really good.

So maybe we'll hear it later, but I think they rewrote that specific line.

Okay.

And then inspired by our guy, River Cartwright, in his

journeys abroad in France.

We had a bit we did last season called Coat Watch.

It seems to be springier weather.

You know, we're getting away with sort of like light jackets, right, in this episode.

So maybe not so much on the other than, of course, Jackson Lamb's perpetual, absolute, disgusting

thing that he wears.

But

Coat Watch, we're just going to do in this episode as fit check and talk about Roddy's incredible outfits.

Shirley tore his top

and

he still looks great.

I think he looks phenomenal.

I think he looks amazing.

And I'm for it.

I'm in favor of it.

And I feel very lucky to live in this time.

Make that money back in pussy is what he says when she talks about how expensive his top top is also i just the use of the word top is really funny and then he says but that makes it sound i don't pay for sex sex pays for me uh is what he says to try to dig himself out of that hole and you know what joe he's kind of right it seems within the context of this episode like somebody seems to be paying somebody to like kind of be around him if not entirely get to

the not sex he's having costs money yes that's true that's true that's true um any other sort of uh fit checks that you want to call out inside of this this episode?

Everything pales in comparison to Roddy, who, yes, rips his top or gets his top ripped by Shirley, also gets his, like, I would assume, like, 300-pound headphones absolutely destroyed.

But one of the few shining lights in these dark times is the fact that you can get replacement headphones given to you same day and delivered at ease.

So, you know, he gets them back.

He gets back to his original form.

And I will say shows up in a different track suit for his date at night.

So he definitely has like a daytime, nighttime look.

I have no idea how much he tones.

Oh, it's better.

Yeah, the first one's kind of like a corduroy situation.

The second one looks a little more velour to me.

They're both like sort of magic eye-esque geometric patterns, though.

Yeah.

That I had a great time with.

So that's

bad dates, season five, episode one of slow horses.

Anything else you want to talk about that we didn't get a chance to touch on?

I'm just going to miss this fun office banter, Joe.

You know, it's just, it's always, it's always such a delight and to pick me up talking about slow horses.

Yeah, absolutely.

Light as a feather episode.

No real world

connections that we can make.

Our signetepope at gmail.com.

We love that email.

Please do use it.

Or press HTV at spotify.com if you prefer.

We're covering task.

We're going to watch the Sopranos.

A lot is happening on this feed.

Also, Rob has, of course,

been hanging out with us over on House of R to cover Alien Earth.

So that is wrapping up.

And Rob, you're heading into NBA preseason content, right?

Where can folks find you?

It's already dizzying.

Come follow us at the Ringer NBA show.

Follow us at theringer.com for the many, many basketball articles published there.

We welcome you with open arms.

You know, it's the horses season, but it's basketball season too.

All right.

Thank you to Kevin Poohler for

hopping on this episode.

Kevin, you're the best.

Thank you to Justin Sales for his work throughout the feed.

And we will see you very soon.

Bye.

Adjective.

Used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.

They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions.

They know the rules but behave as if they do not exist.

Mutine, the new fragrance by Miu Mew, defined by you.

Mutine, adjective, used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.

They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident confident in their contradictions.

They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist.

New team, the new fragrance by Mew Mew, defined by you.