‘Task’ Finale: Chasing Greatness

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I'm sad.

Task is over.

Task's over.

Seventh episode.

Joanna Robinson is here.

Rob Mahoney, this is his flu game.

He's been sick.

He's been under the weather.

He was lying in the back of Grasso's car, covered in blood, holding a gun.

Actually, someone left me in the quarry a little too long.

It's just a little damp, a little gamey at this point.

A little bloated.

Yeah.

Yeah, you have Corey drowning color.

So Rob might cough a couple of times.

He's just going to violently turn away and cough.

So we just wanted to prepare you ahead of time.

All right.

Task.

I'll go big, big picture to start.

So we've seen all the episodes now.

Did this make it?

Did it make it to the

first ballot hall of fame HBO?

Do we have to wait 10 years and keep talking about it?

Where was it for you, Joanna?

I don't think it's like quite, quite there in this first season.

But

all news out of HBO seems pretty like we're going to get another season of task.

And so as a solid first season leading into like a potentially incredible second season, I think this is, and it was a great show, but like, I don't know if I would put it up there with like the first season of succession or some of the other ones that became so huge, you know?

I think it got pretty close in the end, though.

I think like the 5'6'7 run turned out to be pretty exceptional.

And there's just some stuff in the middle.

And like, I like we're gonna talk about the family dynamics at the Brandis house.

And I think they, they landed that plane in a really significant way and justified the plot line.

But I'm not gonna say like every scene along the way.

was sterling.

And so there are those little blemishes throughout the season.

They're just like little, little bits and pieces that didn't work to perfection, but still really high-level stuff.

I really enjoyed basically every other bit of this season.

I loved it.

I think from a Hall of Fame candidacy, there was one piece that seems to be slightly missing where when it's like a truly great show, there's just like a water cooler buzz about it and people just kind of being in awe of how awesome it was.

And I don't think that got there from from that point.

But I think what's going to stand out and endure, and I think it's a little better than Merivistown for me, I have it slightly higher.

I thought the performances,

especially by Ruffalo in this last episode, by Pelfrey the whole time,

the supporting characters, I thought the character of Maeve, I was so attached to her by the end.

I think the acting is going to be the legacy of this show, just how, how well constructed all the performances were.

I think if even though, you know, Tom Pelfrey has been working for a long while now and Fabian Frankl is on a Game of Thrones show, like the two of them and Amelia Jones, like coming out of the show,

I think people will look back on this as sort of like a big launching point for a couple performers.

Absolutely.

No question.

I think that's the closest we got to the water cooler buzz was the Pelfree stuff specifically.

It was, if you are missing this, you're missing something really special.

But as an overall show, I agree.

I don't know that it ever like frothed up.

the kind of like widespread interest that some of the buzzier HBO properties do.

I think part of the, and it's not a fault because it was the way they did it.

And I like how they did it, but I think the first episode had a couple pretty wonky scenes in it, and it was slow.

Some people thought it was slow anecdotally.

People were telling me, I don't know, it's slow.

I'm like, are you serious?

Like, do you like it?

People are wrong.

Yeah, yeah, like just

coming out of one.

Yeah, what are you doing?

But, you know, there was that really crazy scene with him and the priest.

And I just wonder if people just kind of got their hackles up a little bit.

But I thought this show was really great.

I was sort of hoping that the volume out of six would be a bit higher than it was because six was so good.

Yeah.

I think six is my favorite out of five and six.

I like the finale, but I think it sort of peaked at five and six for me.

And so I was hoping like a bunch of people would want to catch up before the finale.

And I haven't really anecdotally seen that happen, though,

it still might.

We're recording this a couple of days before Sunday, but

and people love a binge, but I, yeah, it's just not quite,

it's not even where Mare was necessarily.

Just that really caught fire in the culture and stuff like that.

So, but, but I think it deserves it.

And I think people who have been dialed in to the show, we talked about this a bit last week, Bill, but I think people who have been

dialed into the show will just tell everyone they really miss something if they miss task, you know?

It also is very bingeable.

Like, because of the length and because the natural plot is so propulsive, like shout out to a show that is exactly as long as it needed to be, frankly.

Like, they didn't try to skim it.

They didn't try to stretch it to 10.

Like, it felt like pretty pretty much everything we were getting into in terms of the weight of the ideas and the themes was deserved.

Again, on an execution level, maybe this scene or that one didn't work for you or this plot line or that one.

But overall, this felt like it moved really, really well.

Yeah.

And when you're comparing it to the Altimer, it's like, as you guys know, I've been watching Succession and the Sauna for 25-minute stretches.

You're almost done.

I'm almost done.

What are you going to do next?

I honestly don't know what happened.

I might just start watching Succession again.

I mean, it is the most Sauna show that's ever been created.

So congratulations for finding it.

You're just on the edge of your seat with every line, but uh, but that seven, eight, nine, 10 run in succession, and especially the last two episodes, and how that show, it's just like to me, if you're going to go first bout hall of fame, it's got to be on that level.

And I do feel like this was right below, but I will say, and I'm with you, Joanne.

I like the fifth and sixth episodes slightly more than the seventh, just because I thought the seventh kind of peaked too early.

Ruffalo's uh courtroom scene was just awesome.

Yeah.

I mean, that was some,

I, you know, that's among the best acting in his career.

And I've been with him for now 25 years as a season ticket holder, as you guys have too.

But I just thought he was just so good in that scene.

And it's one of those scenes where the guy could have

could have tried to turn the waterworks on to really like go for the Emmy clip or

try to, you know, dial it up a couple spots.

But I just thought it was just perfect acting.

I really was like, I thought it was incredible.

I, I don't know, you know how like sometimes you just watch an episode and you're just like in the wrong mood or whatever.

Like the first time I watched it, it didn't really hit me.

But then I was talking to CR and he was talking about how much he loved it.

And I was like, well, then I feel like I really need to rewatch it and I miss something.

And then on the second time through, I did really appreciate how restrained it was.

And that made it sort of all the more powerful.

And there's just like one moment, like when he's talking about the art teacher, like that moment where he like almost kind of breaks and it makes the rest, you know, but he's not like screaming, like, look at me, son, look at me, which, like, you know, that's a choice someone could have made.

But yeah, that restraint was really admirable.

And I found all the Sammy stuff incredibly emotional in the finale.

That was something that, like, we were a little worried about.

Like, is he just going to get a replacement son?

And the fact that the show was like, we are also worried about that, was really gratifying, I think, in the end.

Literally, every character is concerned that you are trying to replace one son with the other.

Honestly, like, the fact that this finale could make me care the way I did about Tom and Ethan's relationship, a relationship that like by plot purposes has been absent, right?

These characters have not interacted for over a year.

Right.

And yet, like, I, I'm, I'm living and dying with every line of that speech.

In the lead up to it, I was feeling the legitimate tension of like, what is he going to say in this hearing?

What is the meaning of what he's telling Emily about, you know, basically trying to keep her safe and make sure that she feels safe in their home?

What does that mean as far as what he's going to to say about Ethan?

Like, there's a little bit of magic in that, in the idea that after all of this, you can basically not quite introduce a new character in Ethan, but the most screen time he's had all season, even though he's just sitting idly in a courtroom.

And it's like, I feel for that character because Mark Ruffalo is making me feel for that character.

And that's, that is an impressive thing to pull off.

You know what else that scene had?

One of my favorites when the cut to the character who's not crying yet.

And they cut back, still not crying.

Like, come on, give me this, give me the tears rolling down.

I know you have it in you.

And then it finally hit the daughter and there they were, the tears just ripping down the cheeks.

It's like, yeah, we got her.

It's funny when you, unfortunately, like to get behind the hood of this stuff that we, we all know about, like they're filming that scene from, you know, five, six, seven times, right?

He's doing it again.

They just have the close-up just of the daughter.

And that's like, they'll do that take.

Then they go the second, the wide shot of both daughters.

Then they do the ruffalo close, then the wide shot.

So he's probably given that speech, I don't know, six, seven times.

And I'm sure there's versions, you know, again, we're recording this on Sunday.

I'm sure there'll be some like post-mortem interviews where people will find out, but I'm sure there are versions he gave a bit more emotion to.

And they went with this one, which was maybe one of the more, perhaps, I'm guessing, one of the more restrained takes.

And I just think it was a really smart choice.

The directing in this episode, I thought was really, really good.

Jeremiah Zager or whatever.

The

like Perry's death scene, the way that was shot like all all of the nature around him i thought was really really good or like the sammy montage like showing how like really quickly showing how entrenched sammy's like monogram backpack like how much he's in this household and how hard it's going to be to like sort of uproot him uh again like all that was done really efficiently in some of these like images that they put together inside of this episode like the back part part of this episode is so quiet and so still.

And I think to the extent that we're even having like the first Ballot Hall of Fame conversation, look, it's not a slight to say that you don't quite get to that level.

But the reason that conversation is worth having is because of all of the quiet and still stuff.

Like if this was just a heat pastiche, that's a fun show.

But the fact that you're chasing all that with, you know, Robbie's triumphant moment at the end of episode six in silence, and you're getting all of kind of the quiet family stuff here in the finale.

Like, I think that's what elevates it.

I think that's what changes this show into something that is restrained.

And I'm with you, Joe.

I'm sure there's a wide range of Ruffalo performances, but there's also no doubt what register Brad Inglesby likes to work in.

And it is this kind of like a little bit held back, a little bit emotionally stunted.

Sometimes you have to really dig into it, but we want to leave things unturned in terms of these characters.

Yeah.

And look, the whole reason we're watching a TV show, it's not about the plot.

It's about, do I care about the character or not?

Yeah.

When they're in danger, do I care?

When they don't, when they lost somebody, do I care?

Do I want them to be reunited with somebody?

Do I want them to get along better with somebody?

This show checked all those boxes for all the main characters.

My favorite scene of this episode actually was,

I mean, barring Ruffalo's speech, I would say is

the Grasso and his sister scene in the kitchen.

She's like a great character, Frankie Grasso, that I really actually wish we had gotten earlier in the season.

Like, it's kind of wild that she just shows up in the finale here.

Lily Kay, who

Rob and I had some questions about her character in stick a little bit earlier this year, but was so good

in this scene.

And it's just exactly the kind of scene, again, that Brad likes to, like, immediately he walks in this house and like, I get his connections with those boys.

I get the connection with his sister.

She's talking about hooking him up with someone from the gym.

He's like, remember the cat lady?

Like all this sort of stuff, like all of that, that immediate intimacy that you immediately buy into.

And it helps us care about Grasso's character.

Like not just the whole like, I did it, tell my my mom, tell my sister, obvious stuff, but just sort of like, this is a guy who's important to his nephews, who's important to his sister, you know.

So when we see him like gray,

slumped over the steering wheel or whatever, like we're, we're engaged because of those incredible

Brad special scenes that he writes, you know.

Joe, everything you said is 100% true.

I also love that scene.

It is at the same time an extremely tough look that even Grasso's sister knows that he's DJ Grasso no pussy like it to get that from your own family is is tough

how did you feel about DJ Grasanova uh like putting on a track uh in order to distract Michael Johnson his boss when he comes in the house it was the only mixtape was it which mixtape did he grab from well we were joking last week right sadly Rob wasn't on but we were talking about uh DJ Grasanova I was really mad at him the last podcast.

That was like an evil you had some strong words, Bill.

I was upset.

And we said heading into episode seven, like

they better make us feel better about Grasso and some of the choices he made, or else I'm going to think he's a really bad person.

And in two minutes, I'm like, oh, yeah, his mom was sick.

She needed a better view.

Like, yeah,

he's fine.

Dark hearts.

Why not?

His mom needed a bigger bedroom.

I totally got it.

I was back in.

I'm back in on Grasso.

They're all in on Grasso?

If they do a TAS season two,

we had joked last week about Grasso as a future, but if they did Task Season 2, like

Grasso needs to pay for what he's done.

He should not be a law enforcement officer anymore.

But is he a character that you would like to see in a season two of Task, or do you feel like that character should be done?

I would love to.

I think the question is, functionally, if the show is going to continue to be about another task force, how would he be roped into it if he's not a police officer anymore?

And so that's where you get into dangerous territory of like, oh, a character that we have this attachment to and we've seen kind of grow and evolve and really kind of step into his guilt and his shame over the course of this season.

But I don't want to shoehorn him into a thing where he doesn't belong just because we like him and like Fabian Franco, right?

Like I would be a little apprehensive, even though Grasso lives.

This is an important development.

Well, Homeland, which is very often the North Star for conversations like this.

Brody shouldn't have just died at the end of episode of season one, right?

Absolutely.

They literally shoehorn him back into season two, and it's a disaster.

I'm glad you brought this up.

I thought we were going to do it later.

I'm happy to do it now.

Task season two, which is happening.

It could go one of three ways.

It's either just a completely new show

and it's a different task force somewhere else, maybe Pennsylvania, wherever else, and nobody from this season is on that season.

I don't think they'll do that, but it's on the table.

The second one would be built around Ruffalo, like starting a new task force, and we just dive into it.

Maybe there's some Dark Hearts DNA left.

There's some Freddie Frias is still sitting there as a real character.

Like we have some pieces that who takes over the dark hearts.

Is there police corruption?

Like now that we have that guy who's dead in Grasso's office from Risky Business, our guy.

Yeah.

Is there like a whole unwinding of that whole police corruption?

And so you go that way.

The most fun, and I don't know if they'll do this, is

Grasso somehow gets out of whatever sentence is waiting for him.

Maybe the lawyer screws it up.

Maybe he's

escapes.

Maybe he gets out.

Maybe it becomes the fugitive.

Maybe it's built around.

They have to find Grasso.

But I think those are, is there any other option beyond those three?

Well, okay.

There is a tantalizing option

that I've heard a couple people mention.

And I'll get to that in a second.

I will say, I think we might have cut it out of.

Brad's interview last week because he said some a few things that I felt like tipped the finale.

Like, you know, tipped the finale a little bit.

So I cut them out, but like, um, I think he's interested in Ruffalo's character.

I think he's interested in Tom's home life, which is something that we felt was like a little weak actually this season.

But he's, you know, he's like, Ethan's coming home.

How is that going to go?

And I was like, well, let's cut that.

That's that's the finale spoiler.

But like, how is he going to deal with Ethan?

You know, we see him paint the room, but like, that's just step one.

Like, how is the reality of that?

So he's interested in Tom and Ruffalo's character.

Something I've had a couple people mention to me is the idea of a Merovistown Town task

for season two.

Oh, my lord.

I mean, is that on the table?

I don't know.

What's Kate doing?

Is she willing to?

I think Grasso gets set up on a blind date with Mayor.

Is that something we're interested in?

Or he's DJing.

He's now a DJ.

He's DJing her second wedding.

I'm crazy.

I'm more interested in Grasso dating Mare of East Town, honestly, to be honest with you.

So we're all in on Grasso sticking around in some way.

I would like it, but you just have to justify it.

Here's the idea.

If Ruffalo's like, we're not done squashing the dark hearts, there's more dark hearts to be squashed.

Rosso knows a bunch about their organization.

And so he could be like a consultant, not like back on the, you know, but like

disgraced cop.

I don't think he goes to prison.

I think they let him out.

Okay.

Time served.

He becomes a consultant now to help them try to solve this underworld.

Doesn't he say that?

Yeah.

Or double agent?

Can we send him double agent?

Can we send him back to the dark hearts?

Donnie Brascoing?

Look, I'm just saying.

We're just, you know, it's the writer's room.

No bad ideas.

We're just throwing stuff at the wall right now.

Hold on, wait a second.

This is good.

Who knows that Grasso turned?

Well,

Dorsey's dead, and he shot the guy who walked into the house.

All the witnesses are gone.

Unless, like, he.

His one source, who is his one conduit, got shot in the head.

And the other guy who knew about his conduit, he killed.

Yeah.

So those guys don't know.

As long as that guy didn't talk to anyone else in in like the dark hearts upper echelon the mother council or whatever it's called um then maybe we could we could sort of put anthony back in that would be interesting i would love that i like that idea that's good we need that and more stress eating from martha plimpton i think are the two things and her assistant who's just yeah looking at the memes on his lunch break with his tie sort of flung over his shoulder so he doesn't get any mustard on it pretty amazing while we're talking first ballot hall of fame i thought plimpton submitted herself first ballot on the heavy pour Hall of Fame this episode.

Like really, really going to town on the wine and pills combo.

And who's to blame her?

You know, she's just been shot.

I'm not begrudging the woman.

I'm just saying her credentials speak for themselves at this point.

I think she realized she saw the script for episode seven.

I was like, I'm only in two scenes.

I'm fucking really going for it.

This is a full-fledged dial-up.

We didn't talk the two big scenes, the Ruffalo, the big testimony,

and then the second one one was the shootout, which we're going to talk about right after this.

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All right, the big shootout.

We had one last action sequence.

So, by my count, Ruffalo was in three pretty major action scenes in this show in seven episodes.

Another like surprising moment for Tom when he's like telling spotting the gun before Aaliyah spots the gun.

And I was like, this was a question we had when he went toe-to-toe with Perry, where we were like, could he like, what's, what is the truth of Tom?

Is he the like shambling, fumbling, broken down alcoholic, you know, whatever, or is he like spotting guns before Aaliyah, who is a little bit more?

Let's be honest, he's like fucking Jack Reacher in these last couple episodes.

Like, he's just killing everybody.

I thought him taking on Perry was like,

you know, when a mother sees that their child's in danger and will like lift up a car.

Like, that was basically the equivalent for him versus Perry.

This one, I have no explanation for.

All of a sudden, look, he's very sharp.

He's very, honestly, like, him and Aaliyah sweeping the house in the first place felt like a mirror of the first episode with Robbie and Cliff

methodically moving through the stash houses.

It felt like it was their moment to do some good quality, clean policing.

Is it possible because he was not drinking?

Like, he definitely stopped drinking for a few weeks.

The Phillies Cup is a baby feeder now, you know?

Maybe got like his shit back together a little bit.

Wow.

I mean, it was more the athleticism came back.

Like, he's just, he's just back.

Here's

action cop ruffle.

Here's a knit I I have to pick, and then a non-official endorsement I have to give.

On the way to the shootout, I will say the character of Breaker, someone we don't really know inside of the dark heart, standing outside of Donna's window saying, Where'd you find the bag?

What do you mean, nothing's in it?

What's it made

like not my favorite writing?

You don't do phone exposition, Joe?

You don't just like shout it out to anyone who's in earshot.

Better off seeing like an email or a text or something.

Exactly.

On that front, in terms of communication and what can be tracked,

this is not an official ad for Snapchat, but knowing that Snapchat won't narc on you, but Sirius XM Radio will is just something to think about as we go forward in our criminal enterprises.

Tool of criminals everywhere.

The disappearing chat, very important.

Yeah.

So Grasso

ends up saving the day, goes to Maeve's house, ends up shooting Jason, who I think out of all the performances, I think Jason was probably my least favorite.

Kind of had the one move of just pulling super close to the other character and

locking eyes and then spit would fly and that was kind of all he was doing.

I still think we needed like just a couple more Perry Jason scenes for me to understand like,

what a tough like choice this was for Jason or why it was that Perry couldn't kill him or whatever.

How close were they?

Yeah, right.

There needed to be something more establishing that connection.

They did that with the brothers,

the Pendergrass brothers in three minutes.

Yeah, exactly.

In the corner.

Almond Brothers, and then we would have understood.

That's all it takes.

Or Leonard Skinner.

Or Leonard Skinner.

With the Allman Brothers.

It felt like, you know, Joe, you talked with Brad last week about kind of all the fathers and surrogate fathers that are in the air with this, with this show.

That felt like the most yada, yada, yada.

It's like, oh, this guy's older than that guy.

They clearly have a relationship, fatherhood.

Right, right.

But yeah, like his hesitation to not kill Jason did not mean anything to me in the end.

But shout out to Perry, you know, going out doing what he loved, skinny dipping in a creek.

Is that part of the quarry?

I don't know what body of water that is, but it's a way to go.

That's for sure.

The bacteria in that place must be at it.

I can't even imagine.

Thank you.

Bill, how do you feel about Perry clearly not using like a single quarry rock to weigh Aaron's body down?

Just I mean, I said this in episode six pod.

I just expected more from Perry.

It was a really poorly thought-out murder.

I just disagreed with all of it.

There was multiple witnesses up in the hill.

He didn't get rid of the body.

Like, what are we doing?

You're like one of the

dark hearts guy.

He's like, chained behind.

Yeah.

And don't shoot in his hand.

It's really one of the worst murders of all time.

I also, if we're going nitpicks, I really did like the final shootout and I thought it was a good one with Grasso getting his, finally having his moment.

Aaliyah fending off the

dark arts guy who has her from behind and it's so cold.

And maybe I've watched too much UFC, but you're basically not getting out of that unless the round's over.

You're not getting out of it with the just, I don't know, moving forward and then kicking the person's knee.

Like it's over.

The position he had and the size differential.

There's no way she's getting out of that.

So that was my one nit pick.

My bigger nit to pick is that on Aaliyah's character in general, like that's just someone that I feel like, you know, we gave her some connection to Lizzie so we could understand why she was like a bit motivated here at the end.

But I would have loved like a little bit more

information on her, given her

too, bringing her to the front.

One of the only surviving characters, at least of the task force, who's currently employed.

So you would think that she's going to be a prominent member.

Would be nice.

Not quite a nit to pick, but as far as this kind of death scene and Jason and Perry go, I thought Jason confirmed with his getaway, like there is no cool way to run through a stream.

Like you just look like a toddler kicking up a puddle, no matter what you try to do.

Uh, you know, you got to do it, you got to go through the paces, but it wasn't the most elegant actually.

It's not Ben King's sneakers, but it's, it's, it's very close.

It was close, it was close.

I want to go through some of the arcs of the characters, the final arcs.

Let's start with Perry for just for fun.

You don't want to start with Gertie, who will never know peace, I guess, because there's always shit going down in the chicken coop.

Well, there's always money in the chicken coop, Jeff.

Yeah, no, we do that later.

Okay.

Old Gertie.

Perry's final arc.

Order to kill Jason.

The guy's, I don't know how many people he's murdered, but it's been a lot.

He was told, it's you or him.

This isn't done.

You'll be dead tomorrow.

Still can't do it.

Maybe he had weakness inside, just maybe not that good of a murderer.

Maybe he just wanted to run a biker club and not have to murder people.

Gets ratted out by his bartender girlfriend.

Donna.

You know, the lesson as always, Rob, don't slam a bathroom door against a love interest because it will come back to haunt you at the end.

I endorse that.

Ask for coffee nicely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just ask for coffee nicely and no slam doors.

And then

takes a naked swim the next morning as Jason's finding out about Aaron and the chain and ends up killing him.

So I have three lessons here.

One, we've learned this multiple times.

The Pennsylvania water, not your friend.

Not a sanctity place for a swim.

Don't do it.

it's not it's not a healing place bad things that you can get drowned bad news can happen stay away very important that tom wants to take sammy swimming at the why not in vector ever in quarries but at the chlorine only for young sammy lesson number two get your chain back after you drown somebody which i thought naturally we knew that but i just want to reiterate and then lesson number three a little more style don't date a bartender oh yeah you're just you're xing out the whole conversation i was a former bartender yeah just don't just be careful be careful with those bartenders.

They're always networking.

She's just part,

she's just parlaying him.

She's like, ah,

maybe I'll throw my lot with this part of the dark arts.

And that's it.

Paraguay.

I feel like the lesson is supposed to be that Donna is like, she cares about Maeve.

And so she's like, well, they're going after Maeve, so fuck him.

You know, like that seemed to be.

All right, if that's true, what was the scene when Donna and Maeve had a huge bonding situation?

Because I don't remember it.

Did we have?

Well, I think just this idea that like Maeve was part of the biker family, which they tried to make a point earlier in the season to be like, once you're in the biker family, you're in the biker family.

So, like, even though we didn't get a scene between them, it makes sense to me that Donna is like, Maeve doesn't deserve to die.

I don't think I needed that underlined for me the way that I needed like the Perry and Jason thing sort of better fleshed out for me.

Do you know?

Any additional thoughts, Rob?

I have nothing against the bartender community.

I think it's fine to date bartenders.

That was a joke.

Look, I thought she was very gracious in lending them her mom's like lake house or whatever to begin with.

She, she did did her part in helping them escape.

Everyone has a like waterfront cabin somewhere in this story.

Are we missing out?

Should we be in Delco?

Are we missing out?

I don't know.

It's like freaking Martha's Vineyard out there.

It's just all over the place.

So anyway, Perry,

maybe a B plus as a character.

I don't know what else I wanted from him, but it felt like he was missing something.

And I don't even know if I could put my finger on it.

I mean, I really loved that sequence in episode five when he goes to Maeve's house.

You know what I mean?

Or six, whenever it was when he's like in Maeve's house, I thought that stuff was really good.

I think there have been some great moments with, and when it was like Detective Perry and he's like putting all the pieces together, menacing Detective Perry.

Yeah, that stuff was good, but like missing that final sort of like Jason deeper connection really made the end of his character tough.

I mean, good, good as a heavy, not so great as a human being who is in this story.

At least one that we're supposed to like more fully understand.

Tom's final arc saves Maeve, fends out the dark hearts, solves the investigation, stops drinking,

reconciles with his son, gives a really heartfelt emotional speech,

refuses to give penance to Grasso, which I can't wait to talk about.

Officially stops adopting kids.

I think he's done.

He's finally had it.

The priest just made him rethink the whole thing.

He had a problem.

I mean, maybe Jason's kids are now orphans.

So I'm just saying.

Oh my gosh, there's more.

Season two.

Compulsive all the kids.

Yeah.

Stops drinking.

and

just ready to throw himself into the Philly season, Rob.

I don't know.

What else did we learn about Tom?

I like that we end this season with him, even after all of these adopted kids and attempted adopted kids, like learning how to be a father.

Like he's still kind of fumbling through all this and trying to figure out how to best show up for these kids who he is either

the biological father of or has taken under his wing.

And I thought one of the exchanges in this episode that I really loved was the one with him and Father Daniel about like whether he should be adopting Sam in the first place.

And this idea of like being unselfish with your love was something that really landed for me in the sense of like,

you're doing this for kind of a good reason, but also you're doing it to fix yourself.

And that in itself is not justifiable and is not fair to Sam.

And the fact that all of that is kind of dovetailed with everything happening with him and Ethan.

I found it to be really powerful.

And I thought it just like really landed the emotional arc for that character in an interesting way.

Save you.

Stop saving everyone else.

That was basically the theme for Tom, which, you know, he ends up in the happiest place ever, just an empty guest bedroom with no people around.

The

title of the episode, Still Small Voice, is a Bible verse.

And it's about, you know, this idea that like

the story of Elijah, forgive me, I'm an atheist, so I'm going to do my best, but like the story of Elijah and this idea that like, you know, looking for God in these big, obvious ways, and then finding God in this like very quiet, small way.

And so this idea that like, uh,

you know, we meet Tom and he's so divorced from his faith and he's so bitter about what happened with his son and with his wife and all this sort of stuff like that.

And

so watching him, again, all on Mel Gibson and signs, coming back into his faith and reconnecting with that and finding this like inner compass.

We saw it do it in a previous episode with trying to get Maeve out of any legal ramifications, but deciding like she should keep the money and we should just look the other way on the money because my internal moral compass says that kind of feels, it's wrong, but it feels right to me.

I like, I like that character finding those beats of just sort of like what feels right, even though it's not the sort of like big letter of the law, you know, correct, but it feels like the right thing to do.

Not shocking that a show that is so gray area as this would be incredibly interested in what is wrong, wrong, but kind of feels right.

And you see it in the execution of the case too, right?

Martha Plimpton going to overdress Connor with his burrito and his memes and being like, yeah, this is against the law, but you're going to do it because we need to do it to crack this case.

And then all of that juxtaposed with everything happening with Grasso, who was doing things he knew was wrong, but for maybe kind of right reasons or at least justifying them with the right reasons.

It's like, there's a lot of messy police work and police-oriented life happening around these characters.

And they're trying to find ways to justify it to themselves.

And I think the way that that ties into the conversation about faith, Joe, is not just like, does Tom believe in God?

But I think the conversations he has with Grasso over these last couple episodes about what confession means and to whom, that it's like, this is not something we do for the big guy in the clouds.

This is something that we are doing for each other and doing for ourselves to try to just like get through the day.

Their willingness to do that and participate in that and who is interested in being forgiven for what it is that they've done, I am fascinated by in these episodes.

I never gave anyone penance, people beat themselves up enough on their own.

This is last words to Gross.

It was interesting.

I mean, that was a black-ass show, if I've ever heard one.

I was expecting this awesome showdown scene in the hospital or some sort of something, and it's like

that was kind of he kind of just swatted him away, Matumbo style.

Um,

so

with Tom,

if Maeve gives him

one stack,

like here, take this.

Yeah.

Tom takes it.

Do you feel differently about him?

Yes.

Absolutely.

What if he grabs like, you can keep this, but takes one thing and just shoves it in the back of his pants?

Does he use it to buy Sammy monogram backpacks and, I don't know, triple the

vegetable output of his garden?

Like, how many beets are we going to get to?

It goes right to the garden.

Yeah.

To more animals.

Yeah.

More fertilizer.

First of all, where do you think all those posters came from?

You know, they've already been subsidized.

It's the DQ budget for the household.

Oh, my God.

I would love that he let her keep the knapsack.

I just got a DQ right now.

Yeah, the DQ is great.

I love Daddy Letter Keep the Knapsack.

That was good.

I absolutely love that.

It's a good touch.

Grasso's final arc.

I wrote Redemption with four exclamation points, even though he's not totally redeemed, but at least we feel better about him.

But,

you know, got to meet his sister, get the whole background with the sick mom um

great job sniffing out risky business guys stage suicide move

he just he just read it he was like he was reading a corner blitz he's like oh my god i see this coming um

i thought there was one interesting moment in that when he's talking to the guy and the guy said

he's basically like how did you do this all these years yeah right he's like i've only been doing this for two i feel like i've been doing it for 20.

right the guy was basically like now you get used to it like but i was like this is i could do 10 more minutes on this like how do you live with this and the fear of being caught and you know and i liked yeah when michael again michael dorsey i think really a great with apologies to any michael dorseys who might be listening like a great corrupt cop name but like i think him saying you know i put my sons through college and he's like i know you did and like obviously he's saying that to try to be like you can't kill me i've got three sons you know like i i'm a person with connections to the world and stuff like that but grasso being like yeah you had your reasons and so did i and that doesn't make it better what we did here you know what i mean like i thought yeah and i thought grasso i went i had to go back and look because grasso's um

chunky gold crucifix that he's wearing uh in you know very obvious over his sweatshirt in the scene where he goes to like see his nephews and see his sister and i was like has he been wearing that all season and like we definitely saw it in like the bedroom scene with lizzie like we've seen it before, but it's usually sort of tucked under unless he's like, you know, not having sex with Lizzie in her haunted marital bed.

But like,

but like the way it was just sort of like out and like hanging heavy almost on him in those scenes, I thought was really interesting.

I mean, it's the fundamental difference between those two characters, right?

It's like one is continuing to try to justify what they've done.

And the other one, I think this is another great element of Grasso's scene with his sister, too, where it's like, he's the one saying, like, I have to come clean about this.

Like, I have to turn myself in.

And she's the one who's trying to say, wait, wait, wait.

Yeah.

Can't you just like hesitate for a minute and see what happens before you do it, make any rash decisions?

But like, it's very clear that that character cannot deal with this kind of deception anymore.

And that is, that's an interesting place to find him at the end of this story.

And maybe it took Lizzie's death to push him over that particular cliff, but he got to the place he needed to get to in the end.

I think that moment where he talks to his boss, Michael Dorsey, about

in last week's episode about like holding Lizzie's body and she's already gone.

And so this idea, like hammering home for him, this idea of like a soul, like what it means for your soul to leave your body and then that reigniting these questions he's been having all seasons about about faith, I thought was, yeah, really good stuff.

Good shit.

Well, we learned a lesson from him.

The lesson is.

Let your sick mom stay in a slightly worse room.

If your sister's in an abusive relationship, don't bail her and her kids out.

They don't need a safe place to stay.

Just, just keep, keep, keep the course.

No, I, I ended up feeling bad for him.

I was not expecting that.

Uh, Maeve's fine.

Maeve's fun arc

tries to escape with the kids when she gets the word.

Forgets the car keys.

Come on, Maeve.

Just tough.

I argue with my wife about this all the time.

Just put the car keys in the same place every time.

That's it.

The number

of places that she's looking in the house is preposterous.

Like,

it's not in that drawer.

There's no chance it's in the drawer.

This is like, this would be the one advice I would give to everyone in life.

Come in the house and put the car keys in one spot.

Then you'll know they're in the spot.

Is it like a bowl?

Is it like a bowl?

Is it a hook?

Like, does it matter what, like, where the place is?

Wherever it could be in, whatever you want.

Just, just routine, just put it there.

Um,

she gets attacked by Jason, survives.

Um,

missed opportunity with Jason.

I felt like there was some,

there was some tension with them in a good way.

Like missed opportunity for Jason and Maeve to start dating in season two and combine their families.

Can't happen.

He's dead.

Yeah, I don't think so.

We think she's going to get killed in the shootout.

Great red herring from Inglesby with the little girl climbing through the window and like, oh, no, oh, please, no, no, God, no.

They don't do that.

And then Tom lets her leave with the money anyway.

So where does she go, Joanna?

Canada?

Where are you going?

I don't know.

She knows the guy.

I hope she comes out to California.

California, California, Maeve.

She deserves it.

Or like New York City, Maeve.

I don't know.

Oh, yeah.

She could do well there.

Yeah.

I have some questions about Harper

in this shootout thing.

She goes into the house and she's like, I'm just going to let the cops know Maeve's in trouble.

So she opens a window, but do you think they could not hear her screaming her head off until Harper?

Is that, wasn't that like Harper's move was to open the window so the cops could hear that Maeve was in trouble?

Like, look, child logic is what it is, Joe.

Yeah.

And

okay.

Also, I just love that Harper used the same move Maeve did, which is like, crawl through this into the trunk, small boy, so you will be, this is like a family move.

Yes.

But I really loved that final scene between them.

It reminded me a lot of my favorite series finale, Six Feet Under, and like this, the Lauren Ambrose, like,

you know, you can't take a photo of this.

It's already gone sort of moment that just makes me cry every time that I see it.

And so I loved that scene with her and the camera and Harper outside of the home.

Wyatt gets one more butthole joke in there for the road.

And yeah.

Come call back, too, to the end of season, episode one.

The wide shot of the house.

I thought with Wyatt, like really hammering home, there are two kinds of kids.

You know, there's Sam who is living damaged and sensitively and trying to cope with the loss of his parents.

And then there's Wyatt, who's complaining about the length of the road trip and making chicken butthole jokes.

That's really the only two genres.

All right.

She says it's four hours.

So wherever they're going is only four hours from

where they are.

Within Pennsylvania, that could be anywhere.

Okay.

We didn't mention Maeve as a season two possibility person.

I kind of want her out of danger.

Please.

Somebody say, Maeve needs to save herself.

That's why she's a season two possibility.

Where the dark hearts realize she has the money.

Oh, God.

We've got to find her.

Where is she?

That sounds more like a season three or four plot line when they've run out of steam and they're like, what do we have left?

Oh, wait, Maeve's still alive.

Let's just

take her.

Let's have someone kidnap her.

Sam's final arc.

So he briefly ends up in Tom's house with an awesome bedroom with a lot of posters that he picked.

Yeah.

With two great sisters who seem like they really like him and a hands-on dad.

He gets Rob will get this.

He gets rebuilt as a trade asset, Rob, traded to a different foster family for two unprotected first-round picks.

He is a child.

He's just out.

They dump him.

He had a room.

They decorated his room.

Yeah.

Dump him.

I was mad they didn't keep him.

I don't know.

We don't know about this new family.

Tom cannot handle Sam in his life right now.

This is the sister's right there.

The older sister who just got divorced.

She's right there.

She has a lot.

She has a new baby.

Like, she has a lot going on.

I did.

I mean, I will say Sarah and Emily and Sammy was like my favorite Sarah and Emily we got all the season.

Talking about, talking about like Sarah saying something nice about like a nice memory about Ethan while Emily is sort of like poised for Sarah to be nasty about it.

And then she's like, Remember when the dog went missing and Ethan did this thing?

Like, that was so good.

The DQ conversation, um, you know, talking to Tom about, you know, going to Target or, you know, and the scenes with Emily saying, like, where do you want to keep your socks?

Like, when Sammy first gets there and he's like, so scared and downtrodden, she's like, where do you want to keep his socks?

He's like, I don't know.

But then, like, the scene later of her getting helping him get dressed to meet the new family.

It was just like really beautiful.

i also like when when i saw but did you want him to change his mind when the family was walking to the door or do you want him to to let

his friend was like be unselfish with your love i was like he's got to give the kid away this was the healthy choice i think for that like when they were gardening i was like this is so charming i was in it was charming really in on sam and sam was back he was completely rejuvenated i know

so but he's he's got a the family seemed very nice there seemed to be like an older brother involved so i don't know we We barely see them, but I hope it's okay.

And I feel like he's going to know Tom his whole life, provided that family is like somewhere nearby.

I feel like Tom will want to like stay in that kid's life as like, you know,

I can see that for sure.

I also think as far as like a ghost wife watch goes, uh-uh.

I see, I, this one did work on me.

I'm, I am ashamed to admit.

Ghostwife worked.

Ghost Susan putting the flowers into the va, like putting out the flowers while wait, like, obviously a mirror of the whole Emily and Ethan adoption, like all of that.

This one kind kind of worked.

And I think it was because it was so small.

I didn't hate it at all.

I just can't believe that Maria Enos shows up to do that all.

But she's just infrequently seen ghost wife and wife in photos all season.

This is one case where like my, this actor is too big to just show up to be ghost wife like completely failed me.

Sure not.

Like, I like, I wonder if stuff was cut.

Like that's just such a for, I don't know, if people are listening and they're like, I don't know who the hell she is.

And I'm like, well, watch Big Love and watch The Killing and then come and talk to me.

She's great.

The two red herrings were the Redding shootout, which we thought we were getting a flashback whatever from never.

And then the wife.

Did we just get it?

I thought we were.

I thought we were getting the whole.

Redding did get a mention in this episode.

And I thought for a second Bill might get his wish of a Redding-centric storyline.

What if season two is just the flashback Redding season?

They're just, they're really clear in the decks, just really making sure we have all the real estate we need to cover it from every angle.

It's going to be a full like Rashaman, like every character is an episode.

So much to learn from

stuff out.

I hope that Brad.

Well, I know that Brad's not listening because he says he doesn't listen to this stuff, but I wouldn't.

If I wrote a TV show, I wouldn't listen to a podcast like this.

If anyone at HBO is listening, we can brainstorm 10 seasons of tasks for you.

I think we've already got you up to like four seasons.

We're available.

Martha Primpton's final arc, arm sling, probably a little stress eating, especially with the pills that she's now addicted to.

But at least she was in the mall.

Big win.

Is that season five of Task?

Or was she the mole the whole time?

No, she did not.

It's a long arc.

Yeah, I don't think she was the mall.

It's interesting,

her like potential looming painkiller addiction plot line.

Did a show about fentanyl.

Well, it was interesting to me that like there was that like pandemic shortage of medication sort of moment kind of just sniped in from nowhere here at the end of this, that is just sort of like a great villain of this is the U.S.

healthcare system or whatever you want to call it, which is like always, always topical.

But I was like, oh, oh, that's in here.

Okay.

I was, listen, these are not real character.

These are not real people.

I feel like we can make jokes about TV characters.

I was thinking in the back of my head, season two,

Ethan comes home and he's sharing a room with Sam, but then there's another medication shortage would be like the most terrifying hour of TV.

I don't want that guy on the planet.

Leave Sam alone.

I just did think

these are all fake, not real people.

But they did plant that seed for Ethan.

Great guy, but you just got to make sure that medication doesn't run out.

Yeah.

And that could be, maybe that's part of season two.

I don't know.

I know this maybe.

says more about my relationship with my dad than anything else, but I was really impressed that Tom knew the name.

Do you know the name of all of your son's friends, Bill?

Like, do you know their names?

Is that a...

I actually do.

Yeah.

i and i know because like you're involved like i don't know i'm just always impressed when dads know the name of their dads are on it yeah yeah i was like he knows he knows some names that's crazy he's locked in do we did he know the name slash do we know the name of magic guy does that guy does that character have a name he does what happened on the date talk about talk about another unfinished plot

save something for season two it's close-up magic

also was there a faster babysitting job acceptance than him in between dates one and two when Emily comes to him and is like, hey, we need you to look after Sam while we go to this hearing?

I do have one big picture question now that we've seen all the episodes.

Is this show better if we know Grasso is the mole almost the whole time?

And we have more background with him versus like kind of cramming into the last episode?

Like if we found out like episode two, three range.

that he's actually the mole and we don't have to do the oh it could it be martha punting could be this person um but we know.

And then we get more and we can really see how conflicted he is leading up to when Lizzie gets shot.

Is this a better show?

It's interesting.

I don't know the answer.

I think it's interesting.

I think the idea of watching him and Lizzie sort of like fall for each other while we know for sure that he is operating on the other side would be interesting.

I would happily welcome more scenes with his sister and his nephews.

Like that, you know.

That's why I brought it up because I thought that was such an interesting scene in the kitchen.

I was like, ah, I could have used like

four more of these.

The scene with his sister sister, and also just like that moment with his nephew when he's asking his older nephew, like, are you staying out of trouble?

You know, this idea of like, I see some of my younger self in you, or I won't be around to like help, you know, make sure you grow up on the straight and narrow because I'm about to go to prison.

You know, all of that stuff I thought was really strong.

I would have, I'd be fascinated to see a version of the show where that's the case.

My only hesitation is if you make it structurally that way, is it a three-legged stool versus a two-person collision course a little too much?

Like, are you putting too much on Grasso as a character to hold up that much of the story if we know everything about him right up front?

Because in this construction, he's almost like the wain grow of the heat, right?

He's like the last bit of unfinished business that one guy like can't let go of.

And so Tom keeps going after him.

But if you make it equally represent, equally reliant on him as it is Robbie and Tom, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if that character is quite up for that.

But I do have to wonder if,

you know, because something that Brad said in the interview last week was like, you know, once he saw what Tom was doing, he got really nervous, Tom Pelfree was doing, he got really nervous about what the show was after Robbie was gone.

And so like, us caring about Maeve, us getting invested in Grasso, like all that sort of stuff was very key for us to be sort of dialed into the end of the show here.

But if Grasso is just like bumped up a little bit for the rest of the season, then,

you know, maybe that moment of like, oh, Robbie's gone.

What is the show anymore?

Without Robbie would have been less of a moment.

I don't know.

But it's not like I really, I mean, I miss Robbie.

I miss Tom Pelfree, but like the Grasso and Maven Danger and all that sort of stuff was really strong.

So.

But what does that mean for season two?

Like if Maven and maybe Grasso are kind of off the board, Robbie is obviously not going to be a part of season two.

Is a Tom and his home life driven show with a new

character.

Do you think he has to be?

I would bet anything.

Yeah, I would bet anything he's involved.

He has to be.

And they left, you know, I didn't even do an Aaliyah's season arc because I don't know what the arc was.

Exactly.

She was the kind of unfinished character/slash plot that I think if you did it over again, you'd probably have more stuff with her and probably take some of the daughter stuff out.

Right, because it didn't go anywhere.

I agree.

I love that you

say Robbie is definitely not in season two when we got so much, like we got a ghost wife here.

You think we get ghosts are on the board.

Ghost Robbie is on the board.

It's just haunting the quarry.

It's a horror movie.

Yeah.

It's like one of those Mike Flanagan shows.

I would love to have it.

The Corey's Gone Evil.

Yeah, The Corey's Gone Evil, and he's just grabbing the ankles of any dark hearts that walk by and just like pulling together.

We could also go fast forward eight years.

And

Sam is now a teenager and getting into the dark hearts.

Oh, no.

And we just go that.

It's a flash forward.

Ruffloe's out.

He's retired.

He's like, wait, what happened to Sam?

Bill Wayne.

Now it's Sam Duty.

Yeah.

The same thing.

I love it because every time Joe Wayne is horrified, so now I just got to keep going back.

No, Sam's fine.

He'll be

season three, Sam's Crippling Addiction.

Like, we're just going to steer into the skin, I guess.

Listen, the Dark Hearts recruits him young.

Like, clearly.

No, I think there's way more stuff with the Dark Hearts.

I think there's way more stuff with Freddie Freas, especially because they have a good actor for that part.

I think, yeah,

Sam patching in for vengeance.

Oh, to get older Sam.

Older Sam patching in for vengeance.

20-year-old Sam finds out what happened to his parents.

Season 20.

You guys.

But the people who killed his parents are already dead.

Rob.

So he's got to get their go to their relatives.

He's got to get him back.

Rob, watching Grasso in the car, almost delirious with bled out, but still able to shoot Jason and you today in this podcast.

The two most inspiring things I've seen this week.

Joanna, I'm going to miss the show.

I'm going to miss breaking it down.

I think we did a good job.

I think Joanna was the big winner of the podcast.

She predicted like nine of these things that happen.

Yes.

HBO probably doesn't like you.

HBO likes me fine.

There'll be like a spoiler alert.

Joanna's

too true.

Joanna's a fortune teller.

Do you want to try that 76ers joke again in front of Rob?

Do you think it'll.

I did hear it.

I did hear it on my recording.

I laughed for what it's worth.

It was my best joke of the whole season.

It was fine.

I feel like part of you got it.

Tiny bit.

I always kind of get it.

I always kind of get it when you guys make sports references.

I pretended I got your six feet under reference before.

Well, you've never seen the sopranos.

I've seen some sopranos.

You've never seen any of six feet under.

No, I never watched it.

Okay, okay.

I mean, that finale in particular.

That finale,

real heartbreaker, to say the least.

Well, thanks for pretending, Bill.

I appreciate it.

All right.

Well, I'm sad.

Now we don't have a show.

What are we going to do?

Until the next one.

That's it.

You guys are going to have to carry the prestige TV podcast from here.

Who do we have to thank?

Tell us who we have to thank, Joanna.

Hi, Grady.

Yes.

Kai Grady.

Anybody else?

The GOATs right there.

Tom Pelfrey, Mark Ruffalo.

putting a hit out on me.

Gurdy.

And Lego Gurdy.

Yeah.

Shout out to Dairy Queen.

Shout out to Snapchat, a real one.

Oh, shout out to Dairy Queen.

I do want to shout out HBO for actually posting the last episode so that we could do this podcast ahead of time.

Yeah, because some people don't always do that, but I admire that they trusted us, that we would be able to take that.

Someone was yelling at us in the comments last week because they were like, how could you not know that they were going after Maeve or whatever?

It was in the preview for the next time on.

I'm like, pals, we do not see the preview for the next time on when we record these podcasts.

But

I'm glad I didn't know that was coming.

I've hit hit the point in my life where I avoid everything.

Like, I didn't know one thing about one battle after another when I went to it.

The only thing I knew was the one commercial I saw.

But I think that's a better, better way to live.

I'm like, once you're in, you're in.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm just in an empty guest room, gazing out the window with no trailers and no information.

Hey,

great to do this with both of you.

It's great to see you.

Thanks, bro.

Thanks, Bill.

Mutine, adjective, used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.

They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions.

They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist.

Mutine, The new fragrance by Mew Mew.

Defined by you.

Happy fall movie season, James.

Horror is booming, but Oscar contenders are about to hit theaters.

Marty Supreme, Springsteen, Deliver Me From Nowhere, Wicked for Good, and Bougonia.

Don't forget blockbusters like Avatar, Fire and Ash, Predator Badlands, and Five Nights at Freddy's 2.

Those will be huge.

We'll cover those movies every week this fall on our podcast, which is called Raiders of the Lost Podcast.

Raiders of the Lost Podcast.

Watch or listen on Spotify.