‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High

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Speaker 3 This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate.

Speaker 2 Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee.

Speaker 3 So, when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors: Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers.

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Speaker 3 Hello, welcome back to the Press Siege TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

Speaker 2 I'm Rob Mahoney.

Speaker 3 And we're here today to talk to you about listening to audiobooks while reading books at the same

Speaker 2 time.

Speaker 3 Rob, have we ever gotten as many emails about, you know, a subject matter? I think this massively massively dwarfs the chicken washing emails we've gotten from the Severance listenership this week.

Speaker 2 I'm on the right side of history about that.

Speaker 2 I feel very confident, in my opinion, and our listeners who emailed in to just to concur, really, just to stand with me against you and other chicken washers out there.

Speaker 3 Like, look, I don't think it's against me. Okay, this is a severance.
We're going to talk about this in the severance spot. I don't think it's against me.
I think it's out of concern for me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I consider that people being

Speaker 2 with me.

Speaker 2 But the important thing, if you are out there listening to a book audio book as you read it immersive reading as we've been told many people call this we see you we hear you we acknowledge everything that you're doing out there clearly there is an incredible market for this that we did not realize joe There's a lot of reasons why people do it.

Speaker 3 This is something we brought up in last week's discussion of White Lotus. We were noting that Piper was listening to an audiobook and reading at the same time.

Speaker 3 And Rob and I were asking, hey, is this something people do? And we got a resounding, yes, this is something people do.

Speaker 3 A lot of it has to do, some of it has to do with like neurodivergence or like, you know, ADHD and stuff like that. Um, but there's a million different reasons to do it.

Speaker 3 And I should have known that the great multitaskers of the world, the podcast listeners out there would, uh, would have this skill on lockdown. So, um, thank you for all of your emails about that.

Speaker 2 Uh, so that's what the whole pod's about today, right? We're just going to do an immersive reading exercise together.

Speaker 3 Yeah, get out your texts. We'll be starting on page 12.

Speaker 2 I guess ostensibly, we are covering White Lotus season three, episode two. That is a thing that we are technically here to do.

Speaker 3 Correct. We are here to talk to you about season three, episode two of White Lotus.

Speaker 3 And this is, I guess, what we're calling kind of the deep dive, where Rob and I, a couple days after

Speaker 3 the immediate aftermath pods that Mallory, Bill, and I are doing on Sunday nights, where we're just sort of vibing and talking about things we liked and Mallory's baffling and enduring crush on Patrick Schwarzenegger's character, all of that sort of stuff is in the mix.

Speaker 3 Then a couple days later, Rob and I get your emails. We look at Reddit, we read interviews with people, and

Speaker 2 we dig into some corners of the episode um so yeah we got a lot of emails to um rob where can folks contact us for this episode i'm so glad you asked uh joe they can email us at monkeyshootout at gmail.com or as always prestigetv at spotify.com but we all know the monkey shootout is coming it has been foreshadowed it has been foretold it is monkeys are in every interstitial in this entire episode somehow the monkeys are here and they will be shooting out soon so please email us at monkeyshootout at gmail.com we did get an uh we got an email from our listener rachel who asks under the umbrella of the monkeys did it

Speaker 3 does it have to be a monkey literally picks up a gun or can it be a monkey spooks startles attacks someone and the ensuing shootout is sort of incited by a monkey in other words if a monkey is involved in the shootout a monkey related shooting yeah monkey involved shooting does it do we still will we still feel vindicated in the monkey theory theory?

Speaker 2 I'm going to say this. If a monkey is even in the background of the scene, we're going to claim victory on this.

Speaker 3 What about a monkey statue or a monkey girl?

Speaker 2 I think it's got to be a live monkey.

Speaker 2 Unless someone with a gun turns a corner and sees a monkey statue and gets startled and shoots somebody thinking it's a real monkey, then I will still claim victory.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, the gun doesn't have to be in the monkey's hands. I think the monkey needs to be driving the action in some way, two shots being fired.

Speaker 2 In that case, it will indeed be a monkey shootout by definition.

Speaker 3 Definitionally, I completely agree. So double dipping on White Lotus is something we're doing on this feed.
And then Rob and I are also covering Severance, a tremendous show.

Speaker 3 Those podcasts come out at the end of the week.

Speaker 3 We've got a very special guest this week.

Speaker 3 I, because Rob was not here in the studio, got to have a chat with Damon Lindelof, the co-creator of Lost and Watchmen and Leftovers, and that conversation about Severance, about his Severance theories, about the lost references on Severance, all that sort sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 So, that episode will be up on YouTube in full. So, you can watch a video of that,

Speaker 3 we recorded in studio. And then, an edited version of that conversation will be on our episode seven severance podcast that's coming out at the end of the week.

Speaker 3 So, you can hear bits and pieces of it on Friday with the Severance podcast, or you can watch the YouTube version, which should be up in the middle of this week.

Speaker 3 So, either today, Wednesday, or tomorrow, Thursday. So,

Speaker 3 fun, fun things in the Prestige TV podcast feed. Okay, monkeys.
I have another thing to talk to you about.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Rob.

Speaker 2 Why not? Let's take another lap.

Speaker 3 I mean, monkey shit out is one thing. And the monkey interstitials, as you pointed out, something that Mallory pointed out on the other podcast was that in season two,

Speaker 3 all of the interstitials were those vases with the heads on them that were related to this like folklore story that really had nothing at the end of the day to do with.

Speaker 3 Tanya's death in season two of White Lotus. So thematically was related, but was not

Speaker 3 someone was killed by a vase, so, or a vase grabbed a gun or anything like that. So, it could be that the monkeys are just here thematically.

Speaker 3 And if the monkeys are here thematically, something we might want to keep in mind as we talk about spirituality and Buddhism is this concept of the monkey mind that is part of Buddhist practice.

Speaker 3 And the monkey mind is, quote, a state of restlessness, capriciousness, and lack of control in one's thoughts,

Speaker 3 which is

Speaker 3 a smear on monkeys,

Speaker 3 you know, to be clear, but restlessness, capriciousness, and lack of control in one's one's thoughts. Is there a single character that you would most put under the monkey mind uh

Speaker 3 definition inside of this episode?

Speaker 2 Oh my god. I mean, the are all three members of the blonde blob slash fancy cougars have very active minds, very active neuroses.

Speaker 2 Um, as you bring up the monkey mind joe, it it calls to mind something for me, which is in the captioning for white lotus, you get a lot of these animal noises during the interstitials.

Speaker 2 And sometimes I feel like the monkeys are described as chittering, and sometimes they're described as chattering. Do you have a good handle on what separates a chitter from a chatter?

Speaker 3 I do. I do know what separates a chitter from a chatter.
Thank you so much for asking me. Chittering

Speaker 3 is a higher register, I would say, and a faster cadence than a chatter.

Speaker 2 Makes sense.

Speaker 2 So maybe it's more chittering cicadas than it is chittering monkeys.

Speaker 3 Chittering is usually has to do with bugs, but like they chitter and they skitter that sort of thing but um

Speaker 3 you're a dog guy i'm a cat person i will let you know that cats chitter when they're hunting if if like you see a cat sees a bird out the window it'll make this like little like chitter noise uh on the hunt oh that's very disconcerting that's terrifying i love cats okay um monkey-minded people i i will say this uh

Speaker 3 Tim Ratliff in his desperation

Speaker 3 is reading a bit monkey mind.

Speaker 2 The man needs a lore as a pam so bad.

Speaker 3 Yeah, his brain is chittering and chattering at the same time, and it's it's a lot for him to handle.

Speaker 3 Um, okay, and then on the on the spirituality sort of blanket around this show, um, we got multiple emails from one listener.

Speaker 3 Um, the first time he sent it through Max, he sent through Turquoise Watch. He then updated it to Teal Watch, and once he updated it to Teal Watch,

Speaker 3 it's on our radar.

Speaker 3 i was in because if folks have been listening to us podcasts on this feed for a while you might remember that when we did true detective we were on hardcore teal watch

Speaker 3 so the reason that our listener max is on teal not turquoise watch in terms of like um let's see what were some of the examples like a bathing suit or a suitcase or this that and the other he was just like this this color keeps coming up associated with a lot of characters and he pointed out that in several religions this color is believed to symbolize clarity and insight as it is a reminder of the sky and the sea, which are vast and expansive, representing the infinite nature of God's uppercase G or lowercase G, if you prefer, wisdom and creation.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 I just, I would like to fully induct all of us to Teal Watch 2025,

Speaker 3 White Lotus Edition.

Speaker 2 We're out here. We're out here looking for teal in every corner.
And as always, kind of looking for which characters that teal is associated with. I feel like is also very important.

Speaker 3 That's exactly it. So, sort of like who's wearing the teal and does,

Speaker 2 or or holding something as teal or wrapped as something as teal and does that color at that time indicate some kind of clarity i guess would be the idea behind teal watch accent corner rob got a lot of accent emails we did perhaps more than immersive reading emails and well maybe yeah but more divisively the immersive reading emails were consistently as requested on my part explaining to us why you might do this uh the accent emails we have people from the carolinas feeling very strongly on both sides of the divide, brother against brother.

Speaker 2 It's tough times out here.

Speaker 3 It's a lot. I will say this.

Speaker 3 The most compelling argument I've seen in the

Speaker 3 these accents are fine, actually, camp,

Speaker 3 is that Mike White gave an interview talking about how the Bravo series Southern Charm, which I've never seen, is an inspiration for the Ratliff family.

Speaker 3 And that, and then we got several emails from people saying Tommy Ravenall Ravenel specifically

Speaker 3 on that show.

Speaker 3 The look, the tan, the polos, the everything, the teeth is

Speaker 3 a close comp to Jason Isaac's character. And this guy was also a disgraced public figure.
So, you know, whom amongst us has not been disgraced by something in their time.

Speaker 3 But yes, we are, we are an audience divided on Accent Corner. I was gonna say, I don't find it distracting.
I don't think it's like, I don't think anything is offensively bad.

Speaker 3 I think some vowels here and there are squidgy, but like Jason Isaacs is and Parker Posey are two of my favorite performers on the show and in general in life.

Speaker 3 And so it's not a complaint and I think it's been an interesting conversation from people.

Speaker 2 Not a complaint, simply commentary.

Speaker 2 But Joe, I'm curious of your expert opinion on this, because as someone who has recently overcommitted to doing a southern accent for a very long DD campaign, I'm curious if that experience brought anything new out for you in terms of the work of not just trying to nail the accent, a la Jason Isaacs, which he clearly is at some points, but maintaining it, the overall marathon of maintaining the accent.

Speaker 3 Okay, Rob is referring to this thing we did on the Ringerverse feed called Ringer Quest, where we did a DND campaign.

Speaker 3 We filmed that back in like November is when we did that.

Speaker 3 I did not know it was going to drop right in the middle of me critiquing professional actors and their southern accents.

Speaker 3 Let's be very clear. My southern accent is way worse than anything that Isaacs and Posey have ever dreamed of.

Speaker 3 But I'm not a professional actor. Ring request, a DD campaign, if you want to hear my terrible southern accent.
I enjoyed bringing that up wrong. I've enjoyed it a lot.

Speaker 2 Okay, great.

Speaker 3 Mini beers.

Speaker 3 No. Regular sized beers in a mini fridge.

Speaker 3 People seem to think they're all included in the resort experience. could be that spa is a la carte but your meals and your in-room treats are all inclusive sure

Speaker 3 so eat all the melon you want to eat at breakfast while you're bizarrely snubbing someone who you met at uh in austin at a birthday shower you know

Speaker 3 love a snub last

Speaker 2 thing you didn't think that was a snub oh no it was it was absolutely a snub i mean it was a squinty wall that she was giving in response to the oh hey girl energy. Like, you can't do that.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 3 do you feel like you've encountered a squinty wall in your time growing up in the south? Is this a normal thing that you've seen?

Speaker 2 Not that I've encountered. No, me neither.
But maybe in retrospect, there was one, and I was just oblivious to it.

Speaker 2 Or I was thinking somebody was rude, but in fact, they were just blitzed out of their fucking gourd. Like, you know, I think there's many explanations for these things.

Speaker 3 So you feel like it's the Lorazepam. It's like that is what's going on there.

Speaker 2 I feel like she is comfortably numb every second of every day and also probably does not remember however many years ago this was because she was also then comfortably numb and has no grasp of what happened when or why or with whom.

Speaker 3 I feel like, and I talked to Bill Mallory about this, but I really read to me as someone who doesn't remember it and is like slightly embarrassed that she doesn't remember.

Speaker 3 So is covering it with rudeness.

Speaker 3 Okay, and then the staircase connection. We got a lot of emails about this, but I'll just read from one we got from Kara.

Speaker 3 The staircases is a

Speaker 3 true crime documentary and then

Speaker 3 fictional series about the Peterson family.

Speaker 3 And the reason that I brought it up to Phil and Mallory before was there was part, one of the theories about

Speaker 3 what happened to the matriarch of the Peterson family when she fell down a bunch of stairs is that an owl did it. And so I was like, an owl did it, a monkey did it.

Speaker 3 Let's just all talk about that in the family. But a lot of people have pointed out that

Speaker 3 this, the Peterson family lived in Durham, North Carolina.

Speaker 3 They went to Duke, blah, blah, blah. And that they were, they had

Speaker 3 adopted daughters,

Speaker 3 Margaret and Martha Ratliff. The name Ratliff is associated with the Peterson family.

Speaker 3 And also that Patrick Schwarzenegger and Parker Posey were in the staircase. So there's just like a lot of staircase connections going on.

Speaker 3 But this was Durham. This was like, I think

Speaker 3 the most compelling comp is that this was like

Speaker 3 Durham's biggest true crime case that ever happened. And so the question is, if we're talking about a North Carolina family based on Southern Charm or not,

Speaker 3 do you believe there's a version of this story where Tim Ratliff, unraveling as he is under the pressure of this looming scandal,

Speaker 3 does something to himself or his family? Like, is he someone you have your eyeball on in that way?

Speaker 2 Maybe himself more than his family. We got multiple emails of people worried about Tim Ratliff becoming a, and this is a direct quote from both, family annihilator.

Speaker 3 A new phrase for me, I learned from our emails.

Speaker 2 The synchronicity of that concerned me a little bit, but I would say that's not usually what White Lotus is.

Speaker 2 It's not a show where I expect, like, I expect comic shootout with a bunch of criminals involving Jennifer Coolidge, sure.

Speaker 2 A man murdering his entire family before committing suicide, I'm going to say that's not going to happen. Now, could he disappear?

Speaker 2 Could he, you know, he, this is a man who does not seem to have a lot of cards to play. Could he fake his own death? Could he kill himself?

Speaker 2 I think those things are in play, but I'm not, I don't think Tim Ratliff is going to gun down or poison his children. I just don't see that.

Speaker 3 Do you feel like Tim is going to go the Greg Gary

Speaker 3 route and change his name to Tom and disappear?

Speaker 2 Just go the next white lotus over. But the problem with that is it doesn't seem like our guy is going to have a lot of disposable funds to do that with.

Speaker 2 So it's easier to go Gary when you can just live up the hill in splendor and

Speaker 3 Tanya's millions. That's the thing.

Speaker 2 Pop down to the restaurant for a quick bite. Maybe that's an argument against the a la carte distinction.
It's like he's coming here to eat at the restaurant as a non-guest.

Speaker 2 I've never heard of that at like an all-inclusive situation.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a good point. You make a good point.
I feel like you can either like charge it to the room or charge it to your card is sort of a thing. So like,

Speaker 3 yeah. Okay, good question.
Let's let's keep the emails going. If you were in the hotel industry, if you went to Cornell, let us know what the deal is.

Speaker 3 Here's the sort of big bucket that I want to put like our character by character analysis in, and it is this question of identity. To go back to the immersive reading

Speaker 3 moment with Piper, what she was reading about this idea of identity as a prison as a concept inside of

Speaker 3 and I think that's you know if if we're thinking about this show as

Speaker 3 a potential for spiritual awakening for these ridiculous people they're ridiculous people but some of them might have a spiritual awakening of some kind Rick certainly seems like you know to get some thing question mark out of his therapy session inside of this episode so you can agree or disagree we can talk about that in a second but something that you know you mentioned what we've seen on other seasons of white lotus This idea of identity as a prison, I feel like there's two outcomes from your state, three outcomes from your stay at White Lotus.

Speaker 3 One is you go home in a body bag. Um, okay,

Speaker 3 the other two are you break free from something, you have a you have a transcendent experience that she radically changes your relationship, your family dynamics, and like that.

Speaker 3 And then the other one, and the one we've seen a couple times that is the hardest for me to watch, is

Speaker 3 almost like a cementing of yourself inside of something tough. I think about Albie in season two,

Speaker 3 um, inside of that family, where he was like the different one, different, like could break the

Speaker 3 sort of generational philandering thing that was happening in his family.

Speaker 3 But in the final, final sequence in White Lotus season two, we see grandfather, father, son all turn their head to oggle a woman as she walks by, and the implication is just like Albi's just gonna be just like his dad and his grandfather.

Speaker 3 Certainly, Rachel in season one, Rachel is played by Alexander Didario and we're like, leave Shane. He's the worst.

Speaker 3 There she is, just cozied up with Shane at the end of

Speaker 3 the season. So this idea of like, can you break out of this identity bucket that you've been put in?

Speaker 3 Or are you just going to sort of further nestle yourself into the role that's been designed for you? So how does this apply?

Speaker 3 in your view when you're thinking about the rat lifts and you're thinking about like Lachlan on the verge of trying to make a decision, Piper sort of exploring something else,

Speaker 3 Saxon wanting to be just like his dad, but not knowing that this thing is coming for his dad. Like, how do you think of this idea of identity as it pertains to those characters?

Speaker 2 I mean, I think it's very notable for one that we don't really talk about Victoria in this way because she is almost consciously running from whatever sense of identity she has, other than mother and part of this family, and advice giver as far as like, don't trust anyone you're not related to.

Speaker 2 And also, everyone is trying to scam you at all times. Like, her identity feels a little bit more muddled in a way that makes sense for that character.

Speaker 2 Everyone else is mostly reaching for something, grasping for something.

Speaker 2 Um, Tim clearly, like, defines a lot of who he is based on this kind of provider mentality as like a very clear patriarch figure.

Speaker 2 He enjoys being the guy who comes into the room, says, Y'all have a good day. I'm going this way while you all do your treatments.
Job done here. Like, he seems to drive a lot of direction.

Speaker 3 I have provided this for you.

Speaker 2 He made the plan vis-a-vis Pam, and now everyone gets to be happy and do their thing.

Speaker 2 Killing it, Pam.

Speaker 2 And yeah, clearly, Saxon wants to be his dad so bad, or at least wants daddy's approval so bad, to the point that he'll basically say anything to agree with him across a table. That's fine.

Speaker 2 We kind of know who that character is, but it's telling that Lachlan is the battleground for so many of these other characters.

Speaker 2 Like, you can tell from his interactions with Piper that she wants him to be spiritual in the way that she is.

Speaker 2 Like, she wants him to have these gratifying meditative experiences or praying experiences, like when he's in the float tank. And he's clearly not there.

Speaker 2 And I find what's so interesting about Lachlan is that when he's with Saxon, he has more Piper energy in some ways. And when he's with Piper, he has more Saxon energy in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 And you feel that tug between them.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And it's such an interesting gender split inside of that family.
You've got like the women, the UNC women and the Duke men, and Lockheed sort of like in the middle between the two.

Speaker 3 And you're right, sort of like posturing more masculine, but by rigid definitions, posturing more masculine when he's with Piper and then more submissive, feminine, if you want to say it that way, when he's around.

Speaker 3 Saxon. I did think we got an email that people thought it was interesting that

Speaker 3 Piper and Saxon and Lachlan don't have any trace of an accent.

Speaker 3 Generationally, to me, that does not ping very strange. they were like wouldn't they have the faintest whiff of like a tobacco road uh sort of accent um i don't know i don't know how

Speaker 3 in our in our constantly online monoculture state how accents are being handed down regionally and generationally um i have I have a Valley Girl California accent, so I can't speak to that, but monkeyshit out at gmail.com.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think they do mute over time. My parents certainly have much more of a twang twang than I do.
And for me, it comes out more on the y'alls.

Speaker 2 It comes out more with like specific words and things like that. But I think that's pretty natural, especially for kids who have been like if you've been to,

Speaker 2 depending on where you grew up, if you're growing up in like more urban versus rural areas where those accents and accents might be like a little more hardened, if you're going away for school versus staying close by for school, like all those things are variables.

Speaker 2 But I think it's pretty natural for kids to grow up with a

Speaker 2 much less significant version of the same accent, if not lose it altogether.

Speaker 3 I've never been around drunk, Rob. Does your accent come out when you have had some free beverages from the mini bar?

Speaker 2 I don't think so.

Speaker 3 Okay. Yeah.
How about when you go back home?

Speaker 2 A little bit. There's that kind of echoing effect that happens, absolutely.
But ultimately, I think it just doesn't come out that much at all.

Speaker 3 I have a friend from Arkansas who you would not know is from Arkansas until he gets more drinks in.

Speaker 3 It's wild. Okay.

Speaker 3 Let's talk about Rick, our guy, Rick.

Speaker 3 So we got an email from, I got baited in the email, and I could not resist taking the bait. Blake wrote in on Shakespeare Corner,

Speaker 3 and he pointed out that Rick says,

Speaker 3 nothing comes from nothing, which is a pretty famous and important line from King Lear,

Speaker 3 said by Lear to his daughter Cordelia when she refuses to lather him with praise like her other two sisters.

Speaker 3 Could this be a little clue to suggest that Jim Hollinger is in fact Rick's dad and that he potentially cut Rick out of some kind of inheritance after an act of, quote, disrespect, much like Lear did to Cordelia.

Speaker 3 Love a Shakespeare Corner. Thanks so much, Blake.

Speaker 3 To me, I will say inside of the session when Rick is talking to Amarita about his dad, that sounded genuine to me.

Speaker 3 Whatever is true about Jim Hollinger, I believe that Rick thinks his dad is

Speaker 3 dead and not in the like Anakin Skywalker died, so Jarth of Vanderbilt could live.

Speaker 2 live from a certain point of view, Joe.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you, what do you think about Rick's, um, Rick's dad and Jim Hollinger and what we've learned so far?

Speaker 2 I still think he's here for professional reasons.

Speaker 3 Okay, and you don't think this is personal vengeance?

Speaker 2 I don't think this is personal vengeance.

Speaker 2 I think a lot of that backstory is more my read on it to this point is more to illustrate Rick as sort of this empty vessel, this person who is devoid of identity, who has tried to

Speaker 2 take away every shred of identity that he ever thought he had.

Speaker 2 For maybe these reasons he lays out, which is that his mom overdosed and his dad was murdered.

Speaker 2 I also don't know if we're supposed to take those things at 100% face value or not, or if that's just the guy who does not want to be in this meditative session, not wanting to talk.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I just, I watched that.

Speaker 3 I watched that interaction

Speaker 3 through a few times.

Speaker 3 And to me, it rings as... true to him, though I agree with you that he does not want to be there.
Does not want to be there. I believe that he believes what he's saying there.

Speaker 3 Whether or not he's saying it in an intentionally provocative way to try to get out of that session, you know, is its own thing. But in terms of like that identity, bigger identity question,

Speaker 3 you think is professional.

Speaker 3 I still tend to think it's personal vengeance of some kind.

Speaker 3 And the thing that I'm focused on with Rick is he seems like he's on a path, like that Chelsea is pulling him to do one thing, which is like have fun, work on yourself, be a human being, be Be more than nothing, really.

Speaker 3 Be here now, be present.

Speaker 3 You have issues. Please work through them.
Please be here with me. So that's like one force pulling on him.
And then there's this other thing pulling on him. And,

Speaker 3 you know, from your point of view, it's professional. From my point of view, it's personal and vengeful.
But either way, feels like to me, the Chelsea path is the...

Speaker 3 is the better path, is the right path. Yes.
And

Speaker 3 it's up in the air to to me at this point whether Rick is going to be one of those characters where we are disappointed that he couldn't break out of either his professional gig as a hitman question.

Speaker 3 Is that what you're saying? Professional

Speaker 2 hitman feels the most likely, but it also could be he just needs to meet this man for some sort of clandestine reason. Like it could be a delivery.
It could be information. I don't know exactly.

Speaker 3 It doesn't seem good, right? Whatever it is, it doesn't seem like, okay.

Speaker 2 I mean, look, I think Walton Goggins is a great hang. I think

Speaker 2 I think Hollinger would be so lucky as for Rick to chase him down in Bangkok.

Speaker 3 You just love him as an outlaw. I understand.
I really do understand.

Speaker 2 And I love him as a philosopher.

Speaker 2 And I'm glad we get this sequence with Amrita because frankly, I don't think like Rick thinks so little of Chelsea in certain ways that he would never have this kind of conversation with her, I don't think, about the like the

Speaker 2 what he contains in his soul is not really what their relationship is at this stage. Maybe someday it it will be.
Yeah. He does not like bear to her in that

Speaker 2 very specific way. And I look, I think they are an incredible pair.
And I think that there is a push and pull on a chemical level that makes a lot of sense. And I think you nailed it in that.

Speaker 2 She is really good for him in a lot of ways. Like she is pushing him out of his comfort zone.
She is like calling him on his bullshit.

Speaker 2 And clearly he provides a kind of security for Chelsea that she needs. Like he gives her a comfort and a safety.

Speaker 2 Like even when she's like basically begging him to be held and protected, like there is a dynamic here that makes a lot of sense

Speaker 2 and one that I think is so expertly deployed opposite Chloe and Greg, where, as we are told many times in this episode, basically the same people. Young woman, grumpy older man.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 The parallels are obvious, but Chloe hates Greg by every indication we have in the show.

Speaker 2 They have a purely transactional relationship where she is a sex worker, it seems of some kind, or at least Rick is very quick to point that out.

Speaker 2 Chelsea and Rick could not be more different in their way. Like, I think they are both benefiting from each other in some ways.

Speaker 2 Like, Chelsea may not be on this kind of trip if not for Rick, and Rick may benefit for whatever his purposes are, personal or professional, from having a partner to travel with for cover or otherwise.

Speaker 2 But they have an actual functional relationship. It's weird, but it kind of works in its way.

Speaker 3 There's genuine affection and connection there when she runs to him after the robbery, the connection that they have in bed, like all of that stuff feels genuine. Like there is affection there.

Speaker 3 There is a potential there for Rick to make a choice, it seems like to me. Yeah.
And I don't know which way he's going to go. And

Speaker 3 can he,

Speaker 3 can he,

Speaker 3 the identity of Chelsea's boyfriend is much better to me than whatever else he's facing in terms of like, you know, a

Speaker 3 son, a child of tragedy, or all these other things that are hanging over him that truly did happen to him. But can you escape whatever, you know, trap that is for yourself and choose something else?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 I also think, look, I never would have, in my very limited casting wisdom, thought to put Walton Goggins opposite Amy Lou Wood and say, that is a pairing that should work as a couple who is traveling abroad.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 There is more charge in like a four-word exchange between them when she tells him he's so mysterious and he just says, I'm not.

Speaker 2 Then, basically, like any supposedly steamy show on television now or in the recent past, like, and that's before they start the proper foreplay. Like, there is just something between them

Speaker 2 absolutely works in that way.

Speaker 2 And once you have that, you can sell a lot of the rest and you can understand the emotional beats and you can figure out like who these people are to each other and what they can mean.

Speaker 2 But you're right, like it terrifies me to hear you lay it out in the way of Rick as somebody who is going to probably have to make a choice at some point, specifically as far as his identity, when we just talked about all the White Lotus characters who just crystallize in their worst instincts by the end of the season, but some breakout, you know, so it's like, so, so, what's going to happen here?

Speaker 3 And the way I see it is like,

Speaker 3 you know, there's, do I go, it seems like there's a do I go to Bangkok and pursue Jim Hollinger there, or do I stay here at the White Lotus with Chelsea?

Speaker 2 Like, definitely going to Bangkok, right?

Speaker 3 Yep, I think so. Yep.
I'm worried for you, Rick. Okay.

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Speaker 3 Let's talk about...

Speaker 3 Someone objected to us calling them the blonde blob, but again, that is

Speaker 3 is what Mike White called them.

Speaker 3 You can go with fancy cougars, which is Bill's, or Bill has started calling them just the fancies, if you prefer.

Speaker 2 Fancies is not softened a little bit.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Along the blonde blob line, though, we got an email from, you already mentioned one Kara who emailed in, a different Kara emailed us in to point out that it's not often in TV that you get stories that it's like one insulated storyline with people of the same gender, the same age bracket, the same hair color.

Speaker 2 And it feels very telling in that way that they are allowed to be the blonde blob and written to be the blonde blob because usually in these exact scenarios, one has to be brunette, one has to wear glasses, one has to be in a different like age set or have a dramatically different style.

Speaker 2 These are three women who are styled pretty similarly at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 And the fact that they are constructed as a like one unit to be considered and also to pull apart from itself, I think is where the fun comes from.

Speaker 3 I think that's so true.

Speaker 3 In Kara's email, she pointed out certain cases, like the fact that Leighton Easter had to dye her hair brunette to be to play opposite, like lively,

Speaker 3 and stuff like that. So, yeah, that there's often a we can't have two blondes, we can't have three brunettes, something like that.

Speaker 2 How could we possibly tell them apart?

Speaker 3 Couldn't possibly do it. Okay, so on the one hand, that is true.
And I love that point. I'm glad you brought that up.
On the other hand, inside of their blonde blobbliness,

Speaker 3 I was thinking about this. Is you know, you're slightly younger than me.
There's, there's this like early era of internet. Did you ever watch Teen Girl Squad?

Speaker 3 Is that ever something that came across your transom?

Speaker 2 No, Joe, those words mean nothing to me. What is Teen Girl Squad?

Speaker 3 It's like early,

Speaker 3 early internet

Speaker 3 like cartoon sketchery, but Teen Girl Squad, which is genuinely great. And I think about it all the time.
If the intro would be like, the pretty one, the ugly one, what's her face? So-and-so.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 this idea that like the blonde blob, despite their blobbliness, have these set roles that perhaps they've played. Jacqueline was always the face is something that they talked about earlier, right?

Speaker 3 Like there are distinct roles inside of their friendships that they've always had. And what is challenged inside of this episode when Valentin does his thing, which is tell the women the same thing?

Speaker 3 What does that do to Jacqueline?

Speaker 2 Well, devastates her.

Speaker 2 Nothing gets between friends like data, Joe.

Speaker 3 Like metrics, like body fat percentage. So like Jacqueline having to consider that Lori could be compared to her

Speaker 3 is, as you said, devastating to Jaclyn. So these identities inside of their same demo,

Speaker 3 Jaclyn's power as...

Speaker 3 the pretty one, the face, is so important to her.

Speaker 3 And it is personally devastating to her to have that challenge. And it makes me think about like, when you think about Tim Ratliff or Jaclyn Lemon here,

Speaker 3 they're

Speaker 3 the power that protects them. I'm the rich provider.
I'm the hot TV star. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Also the provider who's paying for this trip for the most part.

Speaker 3 Exactly. Is so brittle.
It's so fragile. And like what happens when it cracks or is exploded, you know?

Speaker 2 Let me tell you, will be cracking imminently within episodes if it isn't already.

Speaker 2 But you're absolutely right about Jacqueline. And I think it's tied too into her standing in the broader world, right? There is who she is in this friend group.

Speaker 2 And it feels increasingly as we learn more about her, like this is a bit of a retreat.

Speaker 2 This is a bit of a circling the wagons for somebody who's going through a lot, who has a lot of neuroses, who has this husband who she's obsessed with healthily.

Speaker 2 And there's definitely nothing weird going on there at all. And she's definitely not insecure about the fact that he's 10 years younger than her and clearly very, very, very hot.

Speaker 2 And so you see a lot, I feel like, among the fancies, the fancy cougars, the blonde blob, whatever you prefer, of these women kind of speaking to their insecurities, both directly and indirectly.

Speaker 2 And for Jaclyn, it is a lot of like, am I hot enough or good enough for this relationship that I'm in? Is one of the insecurities she's talking about.

Speaker 2 But you can transpose it on her friends too, where it's like, if she's not even hot enough to be the hottest in this group, how is she going to be hot enough to fend off everyone who's making advances on her hot husband?

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 2 And I feel like in Kate, the insecurity that you hear is a lot more like it's played for last with the Parker Posey scene, um, in terms of like

Speaker 2 the non-recognition, but she comes away from it. Like, she seems genuinely a little bothered.
And her thought is, Am I that forgettable?

Speaker 3 Am I boring?

Speaker 2 Am I that boring? And the answer might be yes. Like, the most interesting thing this woman has to say is about beans, which we can circle back to if you'd like.

Speaker 2 Uh, but like, that seems like where she is. She's trying to figure, like, she wants to be notable beyond more just than just being like a rich guy's wife yeah

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 there's also the question i don't know the answer to it but there's a question i think we got some emails about this i've seen it floating around this idea of like new money versus old money oh yeah like is kate new money and victoria is definitely old money so there's just sort of like this

Speaker 2 and jacqueline's new money too in her

Speaker 2 hence why she's a prostitute yeah

Speaker 2 i think you get this kind of really hammer at home by the end when tim is on the phone talking about the light to media money laundering that he seems to have done for only $10 million.

Speaker 3 It's like just a drop. He barely made me any money.
Just 10

Speaker 2 mil. Versus, you know, like, even for someone like Jacqueline, $10 million is probably a lot of money.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Okay. So something I want to say about

Speaker 3 that breakfast scene.

Speaker 3 When Piper is doing her devastating, This is Disneyland for, you know, women from Malibu and their Lululemon yoga pants. And then the ladies walk by and they're Lululemons.

Speaker 2 That was the closest she's gotten to Sidney Sweeney era white lotus so far. Just like she has it in her, and I wonder if we're going to see more and more of it.

Speaker 3 Get them, Piper. Um, okay, so here's the thing: um,

Speaker 3 my best friend, uh, Diana Halmuth, wrote a book called 50 Places to Practice Yoga Before You Die. Uh, she she works on this 50 places um

Speaker 3 franchise book franchise, and um,

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 the

Speaker 3 hard time she had in calling around, you know, investigating these like really cool places you can go to do yoga around the world, a lot of them in Asia, Southeast Asia, et cetera,

Speaker 3 trying to find non-white women to talk to because most of these retreats are run by white women who have gone to find themselves in Asia.

Speaker 3 And it, you know, my best friend, a white woman, but it was like driving her up the wall. She's like, I don't want to keep talking to all these white women.

Speaker 3 who have gone to India to find themselves.

Speaker 3 But it was like making me think about that. And

Speaker 3 she eventually found them. It's a great book, but it was just like, it was just like the struggle was real in terms of how much white women have taken over this scene inside of Southeast Asia.

Speaker 3 And I was just thinking about Jacqueline and Kate when I was thinking about that. Something our listener, Joanna, wrote in about, not me, another Joanna.

Speaker 3 She was like, let's not put Lori in the shrinking violet bucket. Like, she is a hard-hitting, successful,

Speaker 3 maybe did not get the latest promotion, but successful lawyer in New York. So

Speaker 3 at apparently a top firm. So like we've been waiting for like, what's the Carrie Koon explosion?

Speaker 3 Like whatever's going to come inside of the fracturing of this friend group or something like that, let's not expect that Lori, the lawyer, is going to take it lying down. No.
Right. Is that?

Speaker 2 uh something that's on your radar wait frankly it was good to see the clause come out a little bit as far as her place in this relationship that she can talk some shit to, she can gossip with the best of them.

Speaker 2 Like, the dynamics shift depending on which two women are in the room. Yeah.
And we get some hints at a backstory as far as like, you know, the potential pursuit of Valentine, for example.

Speaker 2 Like, oh, this is Cancun all over again. Like, Lori's been out here getting after it.
All right. Like, she's, she's lived a life.

Speaker 2 She's had a pretty successful career, if not, as you said, in the way that she may have wanted, as far as making a partner.

Speaker 2 But I love the developing relationship and the rounding out, or I guess hardening edge of the triangle between these three women.

Speaker 3 The trust triangle.

Speaker 2 This is my mathematical proof, Joe. And please check my work here.

Speaker 2 Kate will talk shit about Lori, but she kind of needs to be nudged to talk shit about Jacqueline.

Speaker 2 Like she feels like she's a little more hesitant to talk shit about Jacqueline and in some ways maybe wants to be Jaclyn or have Jacqueline's face or whatever you prefer.

Speaker 2 Jaclyn will hear gossip about Lori, but honestly mostly seems to pity her in her circumstances in ways where she doesn't want to pile on too much.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 Lori will talk shit about Jacqueline, and that's, I think, our new development in this episode. She's coming in hot.

Speaker 2 It just might take her like a bottle, bottle, and half of Sauvignon Blanc to get there. And once she does, she has a raft.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 What do you think

Speaker 3 Jacqueline and Lori will find to talk shit about Kate? Will it be the beans? Will they be like, oh, and the bean conversation?

Speaker 2 Can you believe that about Kate?

Speaker 3 She brings the beans one more time.

Speaker 2 I'm going to need episode seven, Kate to just be eating a big old plate of beans. Like, we don't need to call it out, but we need.

Speaker 3 Forget the melon. It's bean time.

Speaker 2 The real ones need to know. And we need to see it in action.
But honestly, I wonder if we're going to get that.

Speaker 2 I wonder if this is the case where it is a triangle technically, but Kate is kind of the hinge point.

Speaker 2 Okay. Because we're already told that Jacqueline and Lori haven't seen each other in four years, I think is what Jacqueline says.
Like maybe they're just not as close.

Speaker 2 Maybe Kate's role in this, in this friend group has always been that she's sort of the middle ground for both of them and the way that everything makes sense.

Speaker 2 So I honestly don't know if we're going to get that,

Speaker 2 but it would fit the monkey, see no evil, hear no evil theme. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because I thought it was kind of interesting that when their friends are gossiping about them, Lori sees her friends through the window, but can't hear them.

Speaker 2 Jacqueline hears her friends from downstairs but can't see them maybe we do get you know the the trifecta as far i don't even know what it would be at that point like are you speak your friends are you are you writing bullshit about are you tech well they don't have their phones i guess at least we don't think they have their phones but it's got to be some some version of the written word um

Speaker 3 One thing that I love that Mike White has said over the course of three seasons of this show is when people are like, hey, which of these characters do you most closely identify with?

Speaker 3 And he's like, I'm all of them. Yeah.
That's the point. That's how Mike White thinks about these characters.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 we got an email from listener Alex who was saying, was re-watching season one. You brought up

Speaker 3 our pal, Sidney Sweeney.

Speaker 3 Alex pointed out that in season one, Sidney Sweeney and her friend are making up personas for all the guests, and they mentioned something about how Jennifer Coolidge's character is a rich woman waiting for her friends who just, quote, tolerate her because she pays for everything.

Speaker 3 Interesting how Mike White seated this even then. Curious if this inspired the blondies, cute, or if he has been plotting this all along.
Either way, just appreciate the attention and detail always.

Speaker 3 So I do think there's always a version inside of White Lotus of the have and the have-not inside of these

Speaker 3 an unbalance of power. Like if you think of like Portia

Speaker 3 in season two working for Tanya, like the only reason Portia's there is because she's in Tanya's employee and stuff like that. Yes.

Speaker 3 If Mike White, an incredibly successful and rich, yet deeply insecure person is someone who has gone around the world thinking, hey, are these people just hanging out with me because I'm rich, because I'm successful, because I'm famous.

Speaker 3 And like,

Speaker 3 Jaclyn Lemon,

Speaker 3 why are Kate and Laurie? Are Kate and Laurie there because they really care about Jaclyn? Are Kate and Laurie there because

Speaker 3 it's an all-inclusive, cool trip to Thailand

Speaker 3 with their famous, they can draft off the fame a bit of Jaclyn.

Speaker 2 Maybe a little of all of the above, and this is what I love about this friend group, is there is so much being critical of each other the, under the guise of care, under the guise of like, oh, I'm so concerned about their well-being.

Speaker 2 I'm so concerned about their life.

Speaker 2 But they always double back to like, oh, but she's so great. Oh, but she's so beautiful.

Speaker 2 On the one hand, that could be very superficial.

Speaker 2 I also think it can kind of be true of the people that you're closest with and like who you have the longest lasting connections with is you can be critical of them and wonder what the hell they're doing, but also care about them.

Speaker 2 I don't know that that's the case here. And maybe it's not.
Maybe this is a long, a long-lasting friendship that should have petered out years and years ago and these women are kind of holding on to.

Speaker 2 But I think there's something true in that, or at least something true in the way people try to act, which is they want to be close, even if they aren't.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I've definitely done that with friends of, you know, out of concern, also

Speaker 3 veered into shit talking territory.

Speaker 3 That is, I'm merely a human. I like to think I don't do it very much anymore, but definitely when I was younger, that was the thing that I did.

Speaker 3 I want to talk to you about

Speaker 3 the robbery.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 And our guy, Valentin,

Speaker 3 who is not just

Speaker 3 our guy.

Speaker 2 He's not my guy. Your guy.
He is not my guy. I just want to say, Valentin, not my guy.

Speaker 3 Who is not only causing strife with the biometrics, but also it seems like is involved in the boutique robbery, right?

Speaker 2 A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 What do you know about the Russian population in Thailand?

Speaker 2 Not enough. Can you take me on a journey?

Speaker 3 I sure can. I read some articles about it.

Speaker 3 Uh, because I Mike White was talking in interviews about how when they spent time there, there were so many Russians, he felt like it would be weird to not include a Russian storyline.

Speaker 3 It would not genuinely reflect what's happening in Thailand right now to not include a Russian storyline. So I was like, news to me.
What can you tell me?

Speaker 3 So there's a great Time magazine article, I think, from last year about this.

Speaker 3 Quoting from that article: While many Western nations have shut out Russian air travel in response to Vladimir Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Thailand sees Russian arrivals as key to reviving its pandemic-ravaged tourism industry.

Speaker 3 In October, Thai prime minister extended 90-day visas upon arrival for Russian passports, insisting in a February interview: We're not part of the Ukraine conflict, we're neutral.

Speaker 3 In 2023, Russians ranked top for tourist arrivals in Thailand from the outside of Asia with 1.4 million visitors.

Speaker 3 It's a way to avoid the draft. If you go to Thailand and just stay there, you can not get drafted into the war.
Wow. And so that's a thing that you can do.

Speaker 3 So it's like going to Canada for Americans during Vietnam. And then

Speaker 3 in Phuket, the Laguna beachfront complex of villas, ornamental lake, et cetera, and 18-hole golf course is now dubbed Little Moscow for the sheer influx of moneyed Russians who have just come to sort of shelter in Thailand.

Speaker 3 So that is a thing. We've got Valentin, but like what else is to come on the Russian storyline front? What do you want to say about, I don't know, this is a

Speaker 3 sort of thing that's happening in Thailand or the robbery or anything else pertaining to your guy, Valentin?

Speaker 2 I mean, certainly makes it all the more understandable why Sutala would point out, oh, he's Russian when they show up.

Speaker 2 And like how it would be useful from, you know, the perspective of working at a hotel to have a fluent Russian speaker, somebody to work with Russian guests. That makes all the sense in the world.

Speaker 2 Also would help us understand why these other two robbers might be potentially Russian.

Speaker 2 The fact that Valentin is so clearly involved to me, and this has been easily the funniest thing

Speaker 2 as far as from a theory standpoint, the number of people who I have seen suggested as potentially behind the masks executing this robbery. Let me tell you, Greg is not robbing this hotel.

Speaker 3 My guy's not spry. He is not a spry guy.

Speaker 2 That tells me you have never seen a man of Greg's age move. Like, the hip mobility, he's not swiveling like that.
Like, it's just not happening. I'm sorry.
It's just, he's not moving in that way.

Speaker 2 And so I think you can very easily go through the list of, like, people it could not be under any circumstances or people who narratively probably would not make sense.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 2 But then there's Valentin, who is stopping not just to distract Guy Tuck at the gate, but parking his his bike underneath the gate itself and preventing it from closing as he is soft-pitching the idea of going to these fights together.

Speaker 2 I want to see if those tickets come through, by the way. He better at least deliver for our guy guy talk.

Speaker 3 The Muay Tai fights,

Speaker 3 I really am hoping is part of the storyline in this

Speaker 3 show.

Speaker 3 You said our guy guy talked.

Speaker 2 Okay, I walked that one back too. He's also not my guy.

Speaker 3 Last week, you were on Nice Guy Watch, Nice Guy Talk

Speaker 3 Watch. Yep.
Where are you after this?

Speaker 2 I mean, even more on that corner.

Speaker 3 I love that, like,

Speaker 3 this is a slight role reversal for us because, like, we got a lot of emails from people being like, we love that Rob is, Rob is an ally. Rob is the best.
Like, Rob is in on this.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, I don't know. I'm all in on Guy Talk.

Speaker 2 I really like him.

Speaker 2 His idea of a chill first date is like a marriage proposal. Like, he's coming in way, way, way too hot.

Speaker 3 They've known each other forever, though.

Speaker 2 His pitch is like, your family likes me, and I can maybe like hang a picture frame. That's his pitch.

Speaker 3 Okay, listen, don't underestimate someone who can hang a picture frame. But also, like, I agree that there are moves here that feel classically

Speaker 3 capital N, capital G, nice guy. Yep, I think it all depends on his reaction to Mook.
And I don't feel like his reaction to her rejection was shitty, you know?

Speaker 2 No, no, disappointed, not yet, but like, like, but she also has only to this point affirmed him with attention.

Speaker 3 Uh,

Speaker 3 does that okay? Uh, but does that mean that she's somewhat interested in him? It, what, that, what it requires for guy talk to not be in capital N, capital G, nice guy territory is reciprocity, right?

Speaker 3 The nice guy is pursuing without any measure of interest from the girl. In fact, uh, turning a blind eye to her discomfort and disinterest.
And while Mook

Speaker 3 is sort of like, hey, man, we haven't even been on a date. Why are you proposing marriage to me? She's not reading as uncomfortable to me when she's around him.

Speaker 2 Not uncomfortable. There is a shy sweetness to them that I do enjoy watching.
I disagree, though, that the reciprocity is sort of what punctures the idea because you can be in a relationship.

Speaker 2 with a guy and find out into the relationship with interest and with care and with love that they are actually a nice guy at heart and want to be controlling and want to kind of make these strictures around your life.

Speaker 2 I think the test is going to be when

Speaker 2 you know Hollinger's bodyguards come calling again, when someone else shows interest, when Mook veers away from nursing him and holding his ice pack, what happens?

Speaker 2 Like, what is left of our guy, Guy Talk? Sorry, your guy, Guy Talk. My guy, uh, because yeah, like right now, his only move is basically marry me, and it feels intense.

Speaker 2 And yes, she is kind of laughing it off, does not seem entirely uncomfortable with his advances. Yeah, but I'm worried.

Speaker 3 Okay,

Speaker 3 I think it's good to keep an eye on Guy Talk or any nice guy that we meet, capital N, capital G, but I'm leaning because I feel like oftentimes, actually, that's not true of season one.

Speaker 3 I was just thinking of that there was like the the front desk couple in season two that were like hotel staff

Speaker 3 that you know were quite background, but we're like kind of rooting for um i don't know good to keep an eye on it uh our our my guy guy talk is a hero for the moment even though he didn't really do anything but that's okay well he took a pistol whip and ultimately he got the most powerful medicine that there is which is the sweet sweet affection of the person that you're interested in so he's he's doing all right at this point

Speaker 3 I want to call out our guy our guy Fabian,

Speaker 3 who's the resort manager, who, like, in comparison to the two resort managers that we've seen the previous seasons, has a much smaller role.

Speaker 3 But we did get a couple emails from people pointing out that Christian Friedel, who plays Fabian, or Friedel, who plays Fabian,

Speaker 3 was

Speaker 3 a scary ass Nazi in the zone of interest,

Speaker 3 a tremendous film that came out two years ago. So

Speaker 3 is there something coming for Fabian? Like,

Speaker 3 as we're waiting for Carrie Kuhn to have her big moment, should we be waiting for Fabian's big moment? And is it going to be performing

Speaker 3 at dinner someday or something else?

Speaker 2 Well, he could not be more tightly wound. So it would not surprise me to see him break at some point.

Speaker 2 The way he is just like a living, breathing anxiety spiral who eventually will talk himself into a fugue state if you let him go long enough, I love in this show.

Speaker 2 Love everything that Fabian is bringing to the table. Love the lip-syncing whisper Tala's performance.
Oh my God. I think he's going to be more comedic effect, moving some plot lines along.

Speaker 2 I don't see like a tragic fate becoming him, but I am so happy he's here.

Speaker 3 He's so great. The like the

Speaker 3 trying to tell someone not to clear the plate in the most inefficient way possible. I don't know how he got this job, but good for him.

Speaker 3 Do you think the biggest threat to you mentioned the Hollinger bodyguards, but do you think the biggest threat to the guy talk Mook romance could be if Pornchai takes his shirt off in front of Mook?

Speaker 2 You think Mook wants some of those special treatments too?

Speaker 3 I'm just saying. No, no.
Pornchai, in my view, belongs to Belinda, but like belongs.

Speaker 2 Guy takes off his shirt one time and now they are betrothed.

Speaker 3 There's energy there. There isn't.

Speaker 2 Look, she is into the milk soap. She is into the salt scrub.
Like, she's having a great time. And I support Belinda and her pursuits.

Speaker 3 Doggins is also not skipping Arm Day. I'm just saying it's a great, it was a great episode.

Speaker 2 Everyone knew they were coming to Thailand and they were going to be taking their shirts off. They knew there were going to be some flowing garments and everyone, everyone is really.

Speaker 3 What else do you want to talk about?

Speaker 2 Joanna, I don't know what's going on with the Ratliff kids.

Speaker 2 At this point, I'm very worried

Speaker 2 that somebody's something is going to end up in someone, and I don't know who or which or what.

Speaker 2 The incest vibes are just incredibly strong.

Speaker 3 Tough.

Speaker 2 It's tough. But between everybody, everybody's just going to be able to do that.

Speaker 3 I really hate the way you just phrased that.

Speaker 3 But I can't find my, I didn't need to disagree with you.

Speaker 2 It's not good.

Speaker 3 If you had to

Speaker 3 pick a parry. Oh, boy.

Speaker 3 Where do you feel we're most likely to land?

Speaker 2 I have a very bad feeling that there is a Piper Saxon situation happening.

Speaker 3 Actively happening.

Speaker 2 I don't know of actively happening, but like

Speaker 2 something did happen.

Speaker 2 Something is weird i i want to i want to go through specifically when locky and piper are out in the ocean hammocks and he brings something press pause can we press pause on somebody something is going to go into somebody else's something else and

Speaker 3 and just admire the ocean hammocks you're a hammock guy rob you love a hammock i love a hammock I would love an ocean.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Are you kidding? This is an ideal setup.
This is where you want to be.

Speaker 2 I think the only issue with the ocean hammock, and this is only a problem if you are an adult 20, 25 person like I am, it's hard to bring things out to the hammock if you're having to swim to it.

Speaker 2 Like you could have the waterproof bag with your book in it or your music in it, like what, you know, your headphones, whatever it is that you want to bring. But look, very good for presence.

Speaker 2 Very good for tranquility.

Speaker 2 I would love to be in that hammock.

Speaker 3 What if it's like a waiting, you're waiting out scenario? You're waiting out to the thing and you're just holding your book.

Speaker 2 Definitely works, but like Piper's going full like freestyle. Like she's she's swimming out there, so it's at least a little bit deep.

Speaker 3 She's she's a talented individual. All right, so, um, if you guys are listening to this, it's great and we love when you listen.

Speaker 3 If you're watching, I just want to let you know that I've been podcasting, how long have we been podcasting now? Over a year, no, year and a half.

Speaker 2 We've had a great time.

Speaker 3 I've never seen you make as an uncomfortable a face as you just made earlier when you were describing the Ratliff sibling. So, would you like to return to that?

Speaker 3 I just thought we would take a brief respite into

Speaker 3 Ocean Hammock Corner, but let's go back to uh to incest uh corner, incest road with

Speaker 2 a rat lift kit. It's not a corner you want to be in, it's not legal in many, many states.

Speaker 2 Uh, thank you, but yeah, thanks for that. All of them, right?

Speaker 2 I hope. I almost am scared to know at this point.
Okay. Uh, so Locky brings up to Piper, by the way.
Saxon says that you've never had sex before. Yeah.
Totally normal.

Speaker 2 What Sarah Catherine Hook is giving us as Piper in this scene is a whole ass crisis of something. And I don't know what it is or what it means.
Like she gets to the what the fuck.

Speaker 2 She starts with, like, she has her eyes closed as Locky is saying this. Her eyes judge open.
You can see the gears turning as she's figuring out, like, what do I possibly say to this?

Speaker 2 Her first response is to scoff and to kind of grasp at something and to project like she's above it. Like, he doesn't know what I do.
Right. That is her first response when she finally does respond.

Speaker 2 Then she tries to kind of quiet down. Then she sits up agitated, asking, how the hell would this even come up? And that's where Locke tells her, oh, actually, no, it was a compliment.

Speaker 2 He was actually saying, you're so hot. So it's weird that you've never had sex before.
Very normal. Cool family.

Speaker 2 This is where you get the mouth, what the fuck. Piper gets frustrated and weirded out.
She tries to settle down again. And that's when Locke prompts her in a very Saxon way to ask, well, is it true?

Speaker 2 And that's when she bolts off. And so it's like, there's so much happening here between them and so much specifically in what Piper Piper is kind of carrying on her face and internally in this scene.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I would be shocked if there's not something behind it.

Speaker 2 And it may not be the kind of thing we ever get into, but it's, it's hinting at a very rich sibling history and I pray not incestuous sibling history. But at this point, God knows.

Speaker 3 We talked earlier about Rick being a character that I see as like having a choice to make. Lachlan is even more identified as someone who wants to be like they have explicitly said it.

Speaker 3 I have a big choice to make between Duke and UNC, but like between which side, which sibling am I more going to ally myself with? Which side am I going to more identify with?

Speaker 3 Am I going to go with Piper, who I think we all agree, at least you and I agree, is the more palatable option here, right?

Speaker 2 I mean, Saxon is like if a shit-eating grin was a person. So yeah, like the bar is pretty low.

Speaker 3 It feels like Schwarzenegger, who's again, they're all doing a great job. It feels like Schwarzenegger has more teeth than a human usually does in his mouth.
He's like a sharky.

Speaker 3 Yeah, very sharky.

Speaker 3 Or is he going to ally himself with Saxon? And again, to go back to that whole, like,

Speaker 3 people often end up disappointing us on White Lotus. I am fully braced for Lachlan to disappoint me and,

Speaker 3 you know, just sort of embrace the,

Speaker 3 you got to. build up your muscles and hunt chicks and live your life that way success pussy, etc.
That's that's the life path for you.

Speaker 2 I mean, at minimum, Locke is a little freak who wants to stare at his brother's ass and ask her sister about her sexual, like sexual escapades. Like, he's not, it's not great.

Speaker 3 The early stage isn't, I should not infantilize Locke. You're right, he is, he's, he's doing some stuff.

Speaker 2 All right, can I, can I say one thing in Saxon's defense?

Speaker 2 Just one, one quick note.

Speaker 3 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 You know, we laughed at the time about this

Speaker 2 when the rooming arrangements were being proposed. And he said

Speaker 2 something to the effect of like, you can't do that when you have fully grown genitals.

Speaker 3 It is what he says. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Knowing everything that we think we know now or suspect now about the rat lifts, maybe he was right.

Speaker 2 These, these three people need three separate rooms and need their fully grown genitals very far away from each other.

Speaker 3 There's a very luxurious front room with many couches. Someone should be sleeping on the couch.
Yes.

Speaker 3 In an ordinary family, I would say this is not an issue. In this family, let's just separate sleeping quarters.
Seems like a great idea.

Speaker 2 Sleeping nude with your brother in the room is deranged behavior.

Speaker 2 Just truly deranged behavior.

Speaker 3 I mean, but like

Speaker 3 enjoying yourself to porn in the other in a room that is like barely insulated is also deranged behavior. Nothing but deranged behavior from Saxon.

Speaker 3 Here's something we should say.

Speaker 3 Let's run down. So we've got like to reiterate our threats, our potential threats.
Okay. Monkeys.

Speaker 2 Always.

Speaker 3 Question mark.

Speaker 3 The Hollinger bodyguards have guns. Somebody think about, you know, gun involved in the robbery, et cetera.

Speaker 3 Tsunami watch, where are you on tsunami watch?

Speaker 2 I mean, Lachlan's openly talking about a girl who thought a tsunami was coming at the end of this episode.

Speaker 3 That's a true story. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Makes sense. Tracks, certainly ominous as hell.

Speaker 3 She was like a 12, a 10-year-old girl who like saved a bunch of people because she studied tsunamis in her geography class. And

Speaker 3 actually, probably you're not taking a geography class when you're 10, but maybe her class section on geography. Okay.

Speaker 3 Or probably, possibly geology. Okay, Monica, are let's talk about.

Speaker 2 10-year-olds are taking geology classes.

Speaker 3 You might have a geology unit in like. Oh, sure.
Here's an

Speaker 2 a sedimentary right yeah let's hammer these things out okay here's some talc yeah

Speaker 3 why not i love i love a talc exploration okay

Speaker 3 the poisonous tree

Speaker 3 the pong pong tree which is what this tree is which is related to oleander as in white oleander as in

Speaker 3 a movie about poisoning someone.

Speaker 3 The suicide tree is what it's called, the suicide tree. Like genuinely, if you go to Wikipedia right now and look up this tree at the top, top lines, it's not like very deep.

Speaker 3 And some people call it, no, no, no, right at the top, it's like aka the suicide tree.

Speaker 2 But shout out to Big Tree for trying to get it rebranded as Pong Pong. Like it's just a softer, gentler situation.

Speaker 3 A real soft launch for the Pong Pong tree.

Speaker 3 But our listener, Monica, pointed out, and I went back and re-watched it, and she's correct, that Lachlan was out of earshot and not paying attention during Pam's lecture about the poison fruit.

Speaker 2 Him being out of earshot and also Saxon trying to get him in on the protein smoothie game.

Speaker 3 That's a tough conversation. What could go better in a smoothie?

Speaker 2 Yeah, than poisonous fruit. We all love it.

Speaker 3 Than the suicide tree.

Speaker 2 Let me get some local delicacies.

Speaker 3 The pong pong tree. So,

Speaker 3 those are all just things to think about. Yeah.
As we think about Wailows, anything else that we haven't talked about that I want to mention? We did have a listener.

Speaker 3 I will say a listener Nisha wrote in about

Speaker 3 a complicated

Speaker 3 money laundering me one MDV scandal

Speaker 3 and how it might relate to the Ratliffs

Speaker 3 Shokel scandal. Okay, here's something I'll say.
Okay, this, this is, this is, I have, I have a stick up my ass about this.

Speaker 3 The reaction I'm seeing to the three blondes, the blondies,

Speaker 3 is people saying, like, they're the worst. They're the worst.
I would never want to be around them. They're the worst people.

Speaker 3 Rob thinks Rick is a contract killer. Whether or not we will find out, Greg literally killed, got Tanya killed in season two.
Yep. Uh, indirectly, but I'm still blaming him.
Um, and Tim Ratliff

Speaker 3 is a fucking bamboozler on a massive scale. Um, that has surely impacted people who don't have disposable income to be impacted by whatever grift that he has been doing.

Speaker 3 Uh, so the the women who are kind of mean about each other behind each other's backs.

Speaker 2 That's the worst you got, guys. It's 2025.
You need to dream bigger. Like, people are worse than that.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 I just, I just, it bothers. It's like the different standard that people are held to.
And I'm just sort of like, Tim Ratlett, keep your eye on Tim Rattler.

Speaker 3 I, I am like feeling for him on a certain level because Jason Isaac is really good at what he does. So his like panic is quite intriguing to me, but he is a fucking like shitty

Speaker 3 rich criminal asshole, the kind of grifter that in 2025 we should be very much have our eye on. So, you know, just anything.

Speaker 2 Here's where the blondies are not a monolith, though, because Kate seems like a tough hang. I'm going to be honest with you.

Speaker 3 You don't want to hear about beans?

Speaker 2 I do want to hear about the beans, but I might be shooting my friends a look as she's talking about the beans in the way that she and Lori are

Speaker 2 shooting each other looks.

Speaker 2 Lori and Jacqueline seem like pretty good company as far as these things go.

Speaker 2 Like if you were power ranking the current white Lotus guests based on who I would want to be in a social situation with, I think Chelsea is probably number one with a bullet.

Speaker 2 Like, she seems like a delight. Correct.
Uh, pornshai seems pretty cool. Like, I would hang out with him.
Uh,

Speaker 2 like, I'll throw a mook into that category. Again, guy talk, not my speed per se.
Uh,

Speaker 2 the rat lists are generally out.

Speaker 3 It's a no.

Speaker 2 Piper, maybe, you know, even her, I'm a little skeptical of. I think we're going to see some different layers of Piper throughout this season.

Speaker 3 I don't disagree.

Speaker 2 But once you get beyond that group, actually, Belinda seems like a great hang, too. Yeah.
I think you're getting into Lori and Jacqueline territory pretty quickly.

Speaker 3 Lori,

Speaker 3 Mallory was telling me she was just on a trip and it was like, she sent me a photo, like a vacation photo of her and her two other friends. And they're all Brunette.

Speaker 3 She said the Brunette, the Brown Blob or the Brunette Blob or something like that. And I was like, I was like, which one are you? And I was like, oh, wait, no, of course, you're Jaclyn Lemon.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 on camera star. She's like, I hope I'm Lori.
I'm like, we all hope we're Lori. We all really hope we're Lori, but like, what are we gonna do?

Speaker 2 But also, do we? Lori's also having a tough time.

Speaker 3 Lori just seems like she enjoys a Sauvignon blanc, as do I, and so I support her in all of her endeavors.

Speaker 2 You know, sweet, sweet mercy.

Speaker 2 That is White Lotus. That is Mike White.
That we get the name of Lori's daughter in this episode.

Speaker 2 So I do not have to endure the dumbest theory with all due respect to anyone who is pushing it of White Lotus, the idea that season two's Portia was somehow Lori's daughter based on the fact that I guess they're both blonde.

Speaker 2 That was as far as the evidence seemed to go.

Speaker 3 It's just because both of them have wavy hair that gets a bit frazzled in humidity. It seems to be like the main connection.

Speaker 2 Anyway, they're the only two people who have that. Like, no, no one else curses out.

Speaker 3 Definitely not me.

Speaker 3 Listen,

Speaker 3 Lori is not Portia's mom. No, I just think that that's so clear.

Speaker 3 They talk about her as like a young girl.

Speaker 3 There's also this theory that this is a prequel season. I just think that that is like Belinda recognizes Greg.
Like that is just not

Speaker 2 put it all together yet. Like she's she seems to recognize him, but doesn't necessarily know who he is.

Speaker 3 She's like, I know I know that guy, but from where? That's weird. Right.
So like, it's not a, this is not a prequel season. Lori is not Portia's mom.
Um,

Speaker 3 if she is, we will uh apologize, but I just really don't think that's the case. I don't know.
Um, but you know what?

Speaker 3 There's room for all kinds of wild theories because sometimes your wild theory is correct and sometimes it is a monkey with a gun. So monkeyshoot on gmail.com is where you can reach us.
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Thanks to

Speaker 3 Justin Sales

Speaker 3 for his tireless work on this very crowded feed that we have going on right now.

Speaker 3 Thanks to John Richter for his incredible work on the video front to CT today who's helping out on the video front and to Donnie Beechen, who is our great producer, making sure we sound great on this episode.

Speaker 3 We will be back with Severance

Speaker 3 in just a few days. Rob, what a time for us to be podcasting about great shows.

Speaker 3 And please do check out that Damon Lindelof conversation. We had a great time with Damon, and he did weigh in on

Speaker 3 the Lakers Mavericks situation. And I did my best Rob Mahoney impression.
Not a good one, but my best one. So there we go.

Speaker 2 NBA podcaster Joanna Robinson. We love to see it.
We simply love to see it.

Speaker 3 All right. We'll see you soon.
Bye.

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