‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 1 Deep Dive and Theories

Speaker 1 episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate.

Speaker 2 Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee.

Speaker 1 So, when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors: Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers.

Speaker 2 They're available for a short time only. So, for the love of coffee, go try them now.

Speaker 1 Hello, welcome back to the Press Use TV podcast feed. I'm Joyna Robinson.
I'm still in the void. That's Rob Mahoney.
Hey, Rob, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 Hi, Joe. I'm doing great.

Speaker 2 I'm excited to take my first venture to Thailand spiritually, but your second. You know, you've been around.
You know, the grounds of covering White Lotus. You've already done on this feed.

Speaker 2 But I look forward to you kind of guiding me and showing me, oh, you know what? This is actually the place where you want to go to avoid all the crowds.

Speaker 2 This is the pool where the children aren't allowed to be so you can, you know, luxuriate in peace. That's, that's kind of what I'm looking for from my White Lotus experience.

Speaker 1 I can be your wellness guide as we, as we go through this journey.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. Okay, sounds great.

Speaker 1 Rob, why are we doing two

Speaker 1 white lotus pods on this feed? What are you and I doing that's different from what Bill and Mal and I are doing on Sunday night?

Speaker 2 It's a great question. do you know the answer to this question

Speaker 1 i can come up with an answer my answer is i love covering tv shows with you joe and i would love to cover white loads i know why i'm doing it you so graciously are as i said coming back for another bite of the apple another bite of the poisonous fruit you're right back in and i appreciate it for one i think one thing we want to do so bill and mal and i are going to we have the video pods that are well and you can also just listen to them that are going up on sunday nights directly after the show we want to do a show a couple days later to get uh to get in on the theories that people are are going through to get emails from you all um

Speaker 1 and just to sort of marinate with the episode and and perhaps dive a little bit deeper uh into white lotus rob mahoney yes if folks want to email us we have not decided whether or not we're going to go with any of the emails that we come up with today because you aren't feeling like 100% confident you have nailed it yet.

Speaker 1 But what are your early ideas for a special

Speaker 1 deep dive white Lotus podcast that people can email?

Speaker 2 Well, first, let's make it clear that anyone can email us at any time at prestige TV at spotify.com. That's available.

Speaker 1 And they already have for White Lotus.

Speaker 2 They're excited. The people are jazzed, as are we.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 This is a tough one. I have to say, there weren't particular lines of dialogue, although I was cackling throughout this episode.
I was really enjoying it. But as far as a signature email line,

Speaker 2 I didn't think anything really jumped out at me and so i'm thinking more conceptual after listening to your pod with mal and bill monkeyshootout at gmail.com could be right there for the take it

Speaker 2 and similarly this is a spelling nightmare chekhov's macaque at gmail.com i think

Speaker 2 could hint at something to come but i'm not going to ask anyone out there to spell chekhov's macaque for an email so i think we're we're still searching joe okay what about the monkeys did it at gmail.com i like the monkeys did it if that's available we should jump on the monkeys did it.

Speaker 1 Monkeys Done It is available.

Speaker 2 Can we tolerate that? I don't think we can do monkeys. What about monkeys shootout? Is monkeys shootout available?

Speaker 1 Monkey shootout is available.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm not, I don't hate it.

Speaker 1 I'm doing monkey shootout. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. We have, through the magic of editing, figured out that monkeys shootout is available.
The monkeys did it is not available. No.
But monkeyshootout at gmail.com is available.

Speaker 1 So if you have questions, comments, or concerns for us, you can find us at monkeyshootout at gmail.com or press ecv at spotify.com.

Speaker 2 Or if you want to email whoever does own the monkeysdidit at gmail.com and get them to surrender their email address to us, we will accept it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but surrender only. No bartering.
No bar.

Speaker 2 No bartering. No promising.
Just surrender. Just soft pressure.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So let's talk about some emails that we got at pressecv at spotify.com.

Speaker 1 Though again, monkeyshootout out of gmail.com is here for your enjoyment emily and everyone else but in this case specifically emily wanted to get in on accent corner mal and bill and i talked a bit about the fact that parker posy and jason isaacs are doing two strong accent choices on the show jason isaacs being someone who is not even from the united states of america so and we have to say his character does not need to be from the united states of America.

Speaker 1 He could be.

Speaker 2 Could he not be a native Brit who studied abroad at Duke? Is that not a thing that could have happened?

Speaker 1 I mean, you tell me.

Speaker 1 This is what Emily wrote.

Speaker 1 Hi, I just wanted to weigh in on the Rat Liff accent convo. I've spent my whole life in Mississippi and Tennessee, so I feel somewhat qualified to offer an opinion.

Speaker 1 Parker Posey's accent bothered me more.

Speaker 1 I know Jason Isaacs is British, so maybe I don't expect as much from him, but Parker spent a good bit of her childhood in Mississippi. Her accent accent feels way more forced than necessary.

Speaker 1 Maybe the exaggerated accent is just television shorthand to indicate southern to a broader, untrained audience ear, but southern accents have a lot more nuance than anything she or Jason is doing.

Speaker 1 However,

Speaker 1 And my best friend and I spent a lot of time talking about this today. The whole dynamic in that family felt eerily familiar.

Speaker 1 Anyone who knows an old money white family in the South would recognize the clothes, even Piper's prairie dress that y'all pointed out, the uncomfortable closeness of any of the sibling slash sibling slash parent slash sibling relationships, the obsession with state school allegiances slash rivalries, all of that felt so authentic, I'm willing to ignore the sketchy accent work.

Speaker 1 So, Rob Mahoney,

Speaker 1 you are not from any of the Carolinas. I am not, no.
You are a Texan.

Speaker 2 But a child of the South.

Speaker 1 A child of the South. Welcome to Accent Corner.

Speaker 1 I texted you in advance. I was like, Rob,

Speaker 2 you gave me the brief.

Speaker 1 Something wild is coming. I can't wait for you to hear it and talk to me about it.
Take me an accent corner with you, Rob Mahoney. How are you feeling about it?

Speaker 2 They're both pretty out there as far as Isaacs and Parker Posey. It's fascinating that it's hitting people so differently.

Speaker 2 If I have to profess a theory as to why that might be the case, I would say it's this. Isaacs, to me, does at some points like read as Carolinian to me.

Speaker 2 Like he does hit it at some points, but he's so all over the map that you're getting Australian, you're getting New Zealand vowel sounds at some point, which is quite a far away from the Carolinas, linguistically speaking, to say the least.

Speaker 2 He's just all over the place, and he feels like the accent might slip out from under him at any point in time, mid-sentence, anything could happen.

Speaker 1 I mean, similar to Tim Ratflitz, Ratliff's grasp on, you know, his own life, it would be

Speaker 2 certainly his personal finances, or at least what's going on inside his company.

Speaker 1 His family standing.

Speaker 1 Parker Posey.

Speaker 2 So she is much broader. And for me, it's working.
Like, I appreciate the broad approach that she's taking to this character, and I might have more forgiveness for it

Speaker 2 than some of our listeners do. And I will say it's because of this.
Like, White Lotus to me has always been a show about the specificity of character.

Speaker 2 It's always like you nail these very specific details, and all of a sudden, everything clicks into place.

Speaker 2 And as someone who has grown up and spent a majority of his life in the South,

Speaker 2 there are things about that Parker Posey is doing that are so particular that from the first time she opens her mouth, I know this woman, and I might even be related to this woman,

Speaker 2 if we're totally honest about it.

Speaker 2 Like I just started laughing. And look, there's a very good storytelling mechanism here because there is no better vehicle for exposition than a southern mom.

Speaker 2 Like it is, she will come in guns ablazing, telling you the entire life story of every single person that she's traveling with.

Speaker 1 Does she have to be on Lorazapam when she does it, or is that just a bonus?

Speaker 2 I think that's optional. I think that's just for the vibes.
And also another reason why I'm a little more forgiving on the accent work.

Speaker 2 Like she's in a slurry zone and a very pleasant wave that frankly, may we all have what she's having.

Speaker 1 That's that's my take on

Speaker 1 the excessive drawl from Parker is that this is a drug-induced sort of slur.

Speaker 2 She's barely awake for most of this first.

Speaker 1 Her eyes are like at half mast at all time. To be clear.
I love Jason Isaacs on the show and I love Parker Posey on the show. They are actors I love.
I think they're really well cast.

Speaker 1 The accent corner is fun to talk about, but I just want to make it clear. Um, I think they're phenomenal.

Speaker 1 And I think what Isaacs is doing, especially in the way that Tim Ratliff manages someone like Pam,

Speaker 1 that like really like

Speaker 1 bolstering but condescending sort of approach that he has is just Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 I know that guy. Like,

Speaker 2 I know that guy.

Speaker 2 And Jason Isaacs is perfect casting, not just for that guy, but for potentially shady businessman with a perpetually like puffed puffed-out chest, who is, I would say, like most influenced by how other people see him and is like deeply insecure in spite of that.

Speaker 2 So, it's like I, it's great casting. The accent work is really all over the place.
It's not bothering me. I'm along for the ride.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm curious to see if, like, week to week, it sort of fades in the background and we don't even notice it anymore, or if it becomes more hilarious, we shall see.

Speaker 1 And then, the other, another theory that I've seen floated around that Mal and Bill and I didn't talk about because it honestly hadn't occurred to me, uh, but I've seen it in a couple couple different places.

Speaker 1 And our listener, Ellen, wrote in to say, I feel like one theory you folks didn't cover on the excellent pod this week is that it definitely, strong words, Ellen, definitely seems like Carrie Kuhn is being set up to be the mother of Porsche, aka Haley Lou Richardson from season two.

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 1 this is not, this did not occur to me at all.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 she was just talking about sort of she thinks their hair is similar, blah, blah, blah. Carrie Kuhn is playing Laurie, one of the three, you know,

Speaker 1 blonde friends who are together on this trip. They do mention that she has a daughter.
What do you think of this theory? How does, how does this sit in for you?

Speaker 2 I would say it doesn't check out for me timeline-wise because the Porsche show we know from season two, I would guess at the point of that season was what, 22, 23 years old?

Speaker 1 Yeah, mid-20s, something like that.

Speaker 2 And we're assuming this is maybe two-ish years later after season two, just based on some circumstantial things that happened in the first episode and are said. Yeah.

Speaker 2 would you describe a 25 year old as turning into a really cool girl like that i like i would i would think you get more into young woman territory if you're if you're going to describe someone in their 20s like cool girl is not how i would think that an older woman would describe a woman in her 20s yeah

Speaker 1 I will say the thing that's appealing to this about me, I don't think it's true, but, you know, I'm, you know, I love a theory, so I'm willing to entertain all theories, but like

Speaker 1 I wouldn't mind a future installation of White Lotus where Carrie Kuhn and Haley Lou Richardson are

Speaker 1 mother-daughter who go visit another White Lotus location. Though, given that Portia, I would say, given that Portia is like

Speaker 1 pretty sure what happened to her boss. Yep.

Speaker 1 Do you not think she would say to her mom, he maybe don't go to a White Lotus?

Speaker 2 I do think that she would indeed say that.

Speaker 2 Per the conversation that the three of you had on the other pod about like, would you be aware if murders were happening at a hotel before you stayed there? I would think, broadly speaking, no.

Speaker 2 And we've all stayed in hotels where people have died, people have been murdered.

Speaker 2 I don't want to say it's not a big deal, but it's not something that you're consciously conscious of unless it's a very particular point of obsession for you, which who am I to step on your we interests?

Speaker 2 Follow your bliss. If you want to know about the murders in your hotels, please do.
But yeah, there's no way that a mother-to-daughter relationship,

Speaker 2 if there's any consistent communication whatsoever, would not include, by the way, the last time I went to a white lotus, many, many people were murdered.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there was a lot of death. Okay.

Speaker 1 So the Kate Lori Jacqueline trio,

Speaker 1 I kind of want to start there with you.

Speaker 2 Do you have a name for them other than the aforementioned cougars? Because cougars is canonical.

Speaker 1 Fancy cougars is, I believe, what Bill wanted to call them.

Speaker 2 The fancy is not a bad touch. And I don't have a better suggestion, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 Well, so I was listening to the official podcast. It's

Speaker 1 pretty good, actually, I will say. I don't always love an official podcast.
This is a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 And they were interviewing Michelle Monaghan,

Speaker 1 and she said that Mike White wanted them to look like, quote, one blonde blob, that they all three sort of like looked the same-ish.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So maybe the blonde blob is another

Speaker 2 blonde blob is solid. How do you think the blonde blob started? If you were to trace the chain of events,

Speaker 2 who goes blonde first?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 Leslie Bibb.

Speaker 2 You think she's blonde first, even before Michelle Monaghan is blonde.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Kate goes blonde first.

Speaker 1 And then Jacqueline, and then Lori. Laurie last.

Speaker 2 Yeah, great. Unfortunately, a lot of lasts for Laurie.
It's tough scenes out here.

Speaker 1 As,

Speaker 1 you know, number one Carrie Coon fans,

Speaker 1 all this. slander will not stand.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Mike White also, Michelle Monaghan also says that Mike White refused to confirm what kind of show Jaclyn was on.

Speaker 1 I had guessed The Walking Dead. Did you have any sort of like thoughts or theories about what show Jaclyn Lemon is on?

Speaker 2 I love that idea. I was thinking more kind of broadly popular, more for quadrant entertainment.

Speaker 2 The first thing that jumped to me was like, she is on a subplot or one of the stories of like a This Is Us bootleg type show. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 You know, like a domestic drama of some kind where if you are someone like Saxon, like you can't quite put your finger on where you know this person from, but they're out in the ether.

Speaker 2 So I don't know if it's, I was trying to think, like, is it, is it they were them? Is it we were they? Some other this is us. U-U-R.
The U-U-R perhaps finally come to the small screen.

Speaker 2 But I don't, yeah, I feel like it might be something that you might not have actually seen, but you know she is famous.

Speaker 1 So I was thinking the walking dead, the walking dead, like at its height, because like at its height, it was everywhere. And she's globally famous.
So, you know, it's like a huge show.

Speaker 1 So, um,

Speaker 1 anyway, uh, the point is there is no answer because not only would Mike White not confirm, but he insisted that Michelle Monaghan not like create one for herself. So the answer is we'll never know.

Speaker 1 But guesses are welcome. The UUR is a fun one.

Speaker 1 Again,

Speaker 1 monkeyshoot out of gmail.com if you have any.

Speaker 1 I wanted to, you know, as I mentioned, we wanted to sort of like poke around

Speaker 1 subreddit, see what theories are floating around there.

Speaker 1 LCE, I don't know quite how to, I always have a hard time reporting Reddit usernames on a on a podcast, put up a photo of the three of the blonde blob cheersing each other with their white wine with a tarot card of the three of cups.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 And I just wanted to read to you what this Reddit user linked, the meaning of the tarot card, the Three of Cups.

Speaker 2 Please.

Speaker 1 When the Three of Cups is reversed, it means that you may have no time to socialize or go out with friends. You may be too busy with school or work that you can't spare some time to have fun.

Speaker 1 Three of Cups reverse can also mean losing touch with some of your friends. As time passes, you may find that you're growing apart from one another.

Speaker 1 When we grow older, we must put in effort to make sure that our friendships are not neglected.

Speaker 1 Alternatively, the Three of Cups reversed can mean that there's a lack of balance and harmony within your social circle. Gossip and scandal can rear their ugly heads.

Speaker 1 Perhaps there is envy hidden within this circle. And as a result, you are feeling isolated.

Speaker 2 Well, holy shit.

Speaker 1 Well, holy shit, Rob.

Speaker 2 It's pretty good.

Speaker 1 What do you want to say about, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I would happily try to match any character on this show to a tarot card. It is not my

Speaker 1 expert area of expertise.

Speaker 2 But what do you think of the dynamic that they put together with the blonde blob here and uh whether or not you want to apply it to tarot or not i love the tarot call and honestly i think fits within the vague sort of spiritualism that we're delving into with the season of white lotus in general yeah uh this is my favorite section of characters so far i just find something about their relationship to be so vivid and so particular yeah and i i'm a little torn on to whether they these three women hate each other or not, or if they're just so far apart that they are insisting that they are closer than they are.

Speaker 2 For, you know, not in the way that, as you just described with the Three of Cups, like the way that relationships get strung out over time, and you find yourself clinging to them and pretending that they're something beyond what they really are to you in the present tense.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 But specifically, this sort of like chain reaction between them of clearly the balance of power has been upset by Jacqueline becoming quite famous and Leslie Bibbs character Kate having just a complete Jaclyn complex in every possible way and wants to be her so bad.

Speaker 2 But my heart always goes out to Carrie Koon, who in this case is so distinctly the third friend. And

Speaker 2 if we're going to fudge the math on the Three of Cups, I mean, Carrie Koon has had three cups herself.

Speaker 2 She is racking them up. She's throwing them back.
Those are some heavy, heavy pours.

Speaker 2 And by the end of the episode, she seems pretty well sloshed.

Speaker 2 But I love...

Speaker 1 In her three cups is what you're saying.

Speaker 2 Well, into her three cups.

Speaker 2 But I love that character. And I love everything that Carrie Kuhn is bringing to it.
All like the random little things.

Speaker 2 the way she's like, after she spots the monkeys for the first time, does this like creep down the patio deck to come tell her friends about this thing she just saw? It's like,

Speaker 2 I fucking love all, I love all of these actresses as performers, and I'm really loving the places that they're putting them.

Speaker 2 The things that they're giving them to do, I would say Leslie Bibb, like first and foremost, who, as far as I can tell, has just not been granted.

Speaker 2 a lot of very fulfilling parts in the things that I have seen her in, but she always pops and she's always interesting.

Speaker 2 And so it finally looks like she's going to be given, you know, some runway here.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Carrie Kuhn is a longtime favorite of mine.

Speaker 1 Michelle Monaghan, fantastic. But my eye is drawn to Leslie Bibb as Kate.
I feel like of all these women, and I recognize all of them,

Speaker 1 Kate is the one I think I recognize the most. And to your point about...

Speaker 1 I love your point that you made about specificity of character.

Speaker 1 I think what I love about White Lotus, and I was thinking about this as I was trolling through the subreddit this morning and stuff like that, is that, you know, HBO put up

Speaker 1 an image of all the characters sort of in a grid on their social media? And they, I forget what the caption is, but it's something like, who do you think, or something like that, right?

Speaker 1 So they're stoking theory corner. Um, and that's the genius of White Lotus: is that it is it is just a comedy of manners show.
Yeah, that's what it is,

Speaker 1 wrapped in the candy-coded package.

Speaker 2 Here's a body,

Speaker 1 there's a body, or buddies, or perhaps, you know, like this is a there, it's a theory show, a whodunit show, but really that's not at all, I think, what Mike White is interested in.

Speaker 1 He's just like, that's the hook that gets people guessing and talking about it. But really, it's just these little digs and quirks and nonsense that, that are so human among us, you know, completely.

Speaker 2 And within archetypes that may not be us exactly, but the hyper-rich that are put into these incredible circumstances and beautiful locales.

Speaker 2 And this is why, to be honest, Joe, I was a little surprised to see that some of the initial critical response of this season was a lot of like, oh, it starts out as kind of a remix of the things that you've already known of previous seasons, like very familiar.

Speaker 2 And it's like, yes, that is true. In the same way that we're going to a luxury resort, it's going to be very wealthy people.
There are going to be these archetypes.

Speaker 2 But what makes White Lotus, White Lotus to me is that the textures are always so different.

Speaker 2 And it's, it's, it may be another, you know, son who is inheriting incredible wealth, working for his father, but the personality type is just different enough and again it's just specific enough that i'm completely into it and so true to the name of this episode same spirits new forms like that's that's what white loads always feels like to me i kind of feel like mike so mike white

Speaker 1 writer and director of every single episode, I feel like he's sort of lampshading that critique by calling it Same Spirits New Forms. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like it is in the one hand, engaging in the specific, you know, if we're in Thailand, we have to be thinking about, in terms of spirituality, we have to be thinking about Buddhism.

Speaker 1 But like, he's also like sort of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I know you think it's like third verse, same as the first, like, but guess what? It's working.
Yep.

Speaker 2 Also, guess what? Have a little faith. Like, Mike White has proven to be one of the most surprising writers working in television or like basically whatever he puts his pen to.

Speaker 2 So I don't anticipate that this will end up in the same place as it does.

Speaker 2 And frankly, I don't know how you could watch previous seasons of White Lotus and think, oh, yep, I knew exactly what was going to happen at the end of season two. That's just how I predicted it.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Well,

Speaker 1 you know, something that they were talking about in the official podcast and i don't know whether or not i agree because we'll have to see how it all plays out is they were pointing in that the deaths in the first two seasons are accidental yes

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 the shootout that we hear in the cold open feels more purposeful maybe

Speaker 2 maybe unless unless a monkey did it i think it's also very plausible that some people with guns freak out because of some monkeys or anything else and wind up killing someone who is completely unrelated to anything that may have caused the scare in the first place.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I want to talk to you about the opening credits a little bit.

Speaker 1 There's this idea of,

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 let me rewind a bit and say this sort of animalistic theme, which has been true of every season of White Lotus, but maybe.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this one in particular, I would think.

Speaker 1 Particularly, we've got monkeys everywhere.

Speaker 2 That's monitor lizards. Let's go.

Speaker 1 Snakes and trees, whatever. But this idea that like we are animals, we are, we are, we have packs that we are in, whether it's like a blonde blob or a biological family or a couple.

Speaker 1 Like we run, we have these various like packs that we run in. We've got the fancy cougars.
We've got the monkeys everywhere.

Speaker 1 We've got Patrick Schwarzenegger in the water like a crocodile, like a predator, like a hippo, like something like that. Right.
Um, we've got this like

Speaker 1 terrier energy coming off of Chelsea and a sleepy cat energy coming off of Vicki.

Speaker 1 Uh, and one of my favorites in the opening credits, which is like a lot of people, a lot of monkeys, a lot of monkeys overrunning people,

Speaker 1 a lot of uh various flora and fauna of the area.

Speaker 1 The the

Speaker 1 opening credits card for Parker Posey is of two monkeys getting absolutely zooted. They're just like

Speaker 1 smoking pipes and just sitting there like getting absolutely blazed.

Speaker 1 But you see a lot of these scenarios where like

Speaker 1 animals that you think of as predators become prey

Speaker 1 inside of some of these scenarios in the opening credits.

Speaker 1 And I think that's interesting because if you think about someone like Tim Ratliff, who starts the show as this sort of like alpha male apex predator sort of figure

Speaker 1 that is being hunted, if you want to to put it that way, by

Speaker 2 the media. Come to justice, perhaps.

Speaker 1 Consequences of his own actions. Yes.

Speaker 1 But he is

Speaker 1 in, you know, at least mentally, emotionally, on the run

Speaker 1 from what is coming for him. Saxon on the hunt.
Rick is on the hunt for something. Walton Goggin's character is on the hunt for something.

Speaker 2 Very much.

Speaker 1 You've got alpha males versus beta males when you think about Gaitok, our security guard who we love, and the like posturing security guys with the guns, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 And like, who is Mook interested in among those options?

Speaker 2 I want to push back a little on we love Guy Talk. Okay.

Speaker 1 Are you worried he has

Speaker 1 incel sort of tendencies?

Speaker 2 So a little nice guy energy coming off him that I'm worried about. The like my princess thing.

Speaker 2 And he's clearly already flexing kind of a jealous like inclination over Mook, like even talking to other men.

Speaker 2 And now it may come from a very sweet and sincere place of these guys seem dangerous, they seem whatever. Right.
I can understand both ways. I just, I have my eye on him.

Speaker 2 And frankly, if we're picking characters who could wind up in circumstances that get unexpectedly violent, I have my eye on Guy Talk as a love-straw guy who seems like he's about to do something very, very stupid.

Speaker 2 Like, I just have, I have that kind of course laid out for him, and I hope he doesn't take it.

Speaker 1 You're not wrong in some of your assessment here.

Speaker 1 I feel very tenderly towards him uh let's see if we want to keep that nice guy uh appellation capital n capital g nice guy or if he gets to earn the lowercase n lower

Speaker 2 nice guy um

Speaker 1 on the on the mook front and this is something that bill and mal and i didn't mention uh but we definitely got emails about um the actress playing mook is an extremely famous

Speaker 1 the most famous globally famous person who has been on white lip not even close Um,

Speaker 1 what is your, what is your, I feel like you know more about K-pop than I do. What do you want to say about Lisa from Black Pink?

Speaker 2 I mean, I am mostly K-pop adjacent personally, so not a passion project of mine, but absolutely have people in my life for whom Blackpink is a huge deal.

Speaker 2 They're a huge deal for a lot of the world, just one of the biggest musical groups in the world, period. And especially within K-pop, I would say, by a wide margin, the most popular girl group.

Speaker 2 And so Lisa is like the is native Ty, is the sort of like rapper front dancer of that group.

Speaker 2 And so, yes, is a level of celebrity that for people like us, Walton Goggins is a statue of a man and very important. But for a wider swath of people, Lisa from Black Pink is a huge fucking deal.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I thought she, I think she's great.

Speaker 2 I think she's doing really good so far.

Speaker 2 And I think her casting in this role and frankly, the amount of screen time that Mook gets in the first episode, certainly portending like a level of significance for a member of the staff and you know i think we're trying to figure out who's actually going to wind up central to these plots or those plots who are the crossover characters and i think by nature of working for the white lotus she's going to be bouncing between all these stories in a way that gives her a lot of relevance and a lot of time

Speaker 1 So my apologies to the K-pop. K-pop stands for us not mentioning it.

Speaker 2 Not a group you want to get on the bad side of.

Speaker 1 I do not. Do not organize against me.
I think she's wonderful.

Speaker 1 And I think i you know the sense that i got from people writing in or people talking about it is that like when she was cast there was concern she's not acted before and there was concern if this was stunt casting of a sort or if this would you know if we heard i don't know brittany spears was going to be in white lotus she's not brittany spears i know but like you know was going to sabrita a pop star of whatever variety actually sabrina carpenter is an actress anyway someone a pop star is going to be in season four of white lotus more like oh brother problem with with the like american pop star comps is half of them were on the Disney channel growing up.

Speaker 2 It's like, what are you supposed to do with this now?

Speaker 1 I'm like, Sabrina Carpenter can do anything. Welcome to the White Lotus, Sabrina Carpenter.

Speaker 2 But, um, but this is a pretty naturalistic performance for a first-time actor and a very natural look that I think even like fans of Blackpink or fans of Lisa's would say, oh, this is this is something very different for her.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 to go back to the sort of like animal comp, though, I, I, the, that idea of the pack mentality has always been evident in White Lotus.

Speaker 1 Who is in your pack? Where are you the alpha? Where are you the beta? That sort of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I wanted to drill down on this quote that we hear from Piper's audiobook, right?

Speaker 1 Identity is a person.

Speaker 2 Listening to a monk's book as an audiobook just feels disrespectful for some reason.

Speaker 1 While also reading it and highlighting it at the same time, is that inspiring?

Speaker 2 I didn't realize that was a thing that people did.

Speaker 1 It's not, as far as I know. Maybe while you're studying, perhaps.

Speaker 2 If you do this, please email us at prestigv at spotify.com or at monkeyshootout at gmail.com.

Speaker 2 I would love to know the explanation for why you would both listen to an audiobook and read the physical version at the same time.

Speaker 1 I've done plenty of times. I will bounce back and forth.
That's fine. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like I'll listen to the audiobook while I'm doing something, and then if I have time to sit down, I will read. Yep.
But or I'll listen. Let's say it's for work.
So that's similar to studying.

Speaker 1 And I'll listen. I'll hear a passage.
I might want to go back and read it physically,

Speaker 1 but not at the same time. I feel like that would cross my wires a bit.
Um, anyway, seems to work for Piper, perhaps.

Speaker 1 She says, Uh, this is the quote: Identity is a prison, no one is spared this prison, rich man, poor man, success or failure. We build the prison, lock ourselves inside, then throw away the key.

Speaker 2 How did this hit with you, Joe, now that you are sitting in a void prison of your own making

Speaker 2 that you cannot escape from?

Speaker 1 Success or failure, who's to say, I don't know, doing your third podcast of the day.

Speaker 1 Oh, from the void.

Speaker 1 Great question.

Speaker 1 I am so fascinated by the way in which sort of Eastern spirituality, white people looking for meaning inside of Eastern spirituality is going to work this season.

Speaker 2 But this idea of I want to broaden it out too to not just white people, though, because I think it was such a white lotus articulation of spirituality to me in the cold open with Zion, a character named Zion, who begs a Buddha statue to save his mom, then begs Jesus for forgiveness, then snaps back at Buddha.

Speaker 2 Like that, that is white lotus spirituality.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's

Speaker 1 you're right. A Western approach

Speaker 1 to Eastern religion.

Speaker 1 This, as far as I can tell, is a made-up quote for the show. As far as I can tell, this is not the teachings of any specific actual real-life monk.

Speaker 1 But I think this idea, the way that Mike White likes to craft the cocktail of a particular season via these various archetypes,

Speaker 1 something that he learned not just from his study of like film and television literature, but his fascination with reality television like Survivor,

Speaker 1 these reality TV archetypes, what happens when you mash these kinds of personalities together? What delicious fireworks can you expect from all of that?

Speaker 1 But this idea that like when you're talking about archetypes, you're talking about identity then. So like.

Speaker 1 What about identity for any of these characters do you want to

Speaker 1 point out as a potential prison?

Speaker 2 Oh, man. I mean, I think the whole Ratliff family is stuck in their distinctive prisons, or I think some of them are joint prisons.

Speaker 2 Maybe the best lens to look at this stuff is through Locke, the youngest son, who is being pulled in all these different directions,

Speaker 2 seems to have no idea what he himself wants in the world, which is not uncommon for someone his age, but a fascinating place to put a character like that in this sort of lion's den, where

Speaker 2 in particular, Tim seems like such a nag of a father and seems just basically disappointed at all of his kids for various reasons, but is like constantly on his kids, whether it's about their posture, whether it's about their interview practices.

Speaker 2 He always wants something more of them.

Speaker 2 And so, to find yourself in Locke's position with your mom, more pharmaceutical than woman, with your nag father, with your sister who you might share a bed with, but your brother, who you seemingly definitely want to watch, jerk off.

Speaker 2 He's in some kind of prison. I don't know what it is yet.
And I think he's, maybe he's choosing his own prison in a way.

Speaker 1 Tough times for Locky.

Speaker 1 The Ratliff family, with the sort of scandal in the media and,

Speaker 1 you know, this, this jockeying for favor sort of thing, feels very succession comes to succession comes to White Lotus.

Speaker 1 With Piper being like so shiv roy-coated, like all this sort of like.

Speaker 2 What are you getting from that? From Piper?

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I feel like she didn't get a lot to do in this episode other than be sort of timid at the idea of actually going into the temple that she's supposed to visit well sort of like slightly slightly removed from the core of the nonsense of her family yeah that's true and um

Speaker 1 but yeah but also impractical inside of that removal um is sort of my read so far okay something that uh i i i texted you about this morning that's been going around the internet is the the opening image of the Ratlift Kids, which is Saxon, Patrick Schwarzenegger, Piper, Sarah Catherine Hook, and Lachlan, Lockhey, Sam Navola,

Speaker 1 with

Speaker 1 sunglasses on, headphones on, and then like a Coke bottle up to the mouth as the sort of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil monkeys.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about that, Rob?

Speaker 2 I mean, Mike White is fucking diabolical.

Speaker 2 He's so good at this stuff.

Speaker 2 And frankly, like so many of the film making choices in general, whether it's in service of character, whether it's in service of just like flow and transition.

Speaker 2 Like, I, yes, this is a character piece.

Speaker 2 Yes, this is a story about like man's incursion into nature, and I just want to see some fucking like droplets on a lily pad sometimes, and everything feels so cohesive because all of these edges are papered over, and because ultimately, like you get these really vivid ideas about who these characters are without them having to do anything or say anything or be anything, you just see them kind of exist in a space, and it's like, oh, I get a vibe from this family as far as what the power dynamics are.

Speaker 2 Like I, I understand why a character like Locke would feel so torn between the temple and the pool.

Speaker 2 Like everything happens so quickly and the efficiency of character in White Lotus is just on a different level than almost everything else that's on television.

Speaker 1 Something that Mallory texted both of us before you and either of us had had a chance to watch any episodes was that to promise you, Rob Mahoney, a chance to talk about the Duke versus UNC rivalry.

Speaker 1 What do you want to inform our listeners who may not know anything about basketball, college basketball,

Speaker 1 what the context here is?

Speaker 2 This is a heavy responsibility. I honestly don't think this is a case where I can give you specifics that would put it in detail.

Speaker 2 It is just one of the biggest sports rivalries in the world, and certainly within American sports. And it is not just...
oh, we hate each other's team.

Speaker 2 Like there is a deep existential hatred between, hilariously, two collegiate institutions. And so there's just some something extra in the water here.

Speaker 2 And in particular, like Jason Isaacs could not be more Duke-coated than he is. Tell me why.

Speaker 1 Tell me why.

Speaker 2 Now you're actually just going to get me in trouble.

Speaker 2 There is a pompousness to him that checks out Duke for sure. And there is a

Speaker 2 eternal frat bro turned maybe like finance bro element to Saxon that absolutely reads Duke to me.

Speaker 2 And honestly, Parker Posey also reads UNC to me.

Speaker 2 So I think they're actually hitting some pretty specific marks here and some ones that I think serve the characters quite well, even if it is just like a family trying to lobby their son over which school to go to.

Speaker 2 When ultimately, like, just pick Wake Dude. Like, pick a different, like, a Tobacco Roads school, spite both sides of your family.
Like, set your own path, Locke, please.

Speaker 1 It seems like Locky has never made a decision for himself in his life. Will he before the season is over? Time will tell.

Speaker 1 I got shot down with this idea, idea, though I've since received some support outside of Bill and Mallory.

Speaker 1 Will you entertain my is Saxon a virgin question?

Speaker 2 It seems possible. Like, I mean, anytime a character is obsessed with sex, you have to ask the question.

Speaker 1 Just ask the questions.

Speaker 2 And in the spirit of characters projecting their own issues onto other people, him being so concerned that his hot question mark sister

Speaker 2 might have never had sex before, like my guy, like maybe check yourself. Maybe look in the mirror.
He is uncommonly obsessed with porn and uncommonly horny coming off of a commercial flight.

Speaker 2 That was that's a weird look.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not a commercial flight.

Speaker 1 The rat lifts do strike me as like one Tennessee Williams play

Speaker 1 away from

Speaker 1 just abs or absolute wreckage.

Speaker 2 But more incest than a usual Tennessee Williams.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but occasionally you have that in Tennessee Williams play.

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 1 literature corner.

Speaker 1 Speaking of Tennessee Williams, as we are, I'm here to take you to Fiction Corner, Rob, and I believe you'll have a good time here.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Victoria Ratliff is reading a copy of The Beautiful and the Damned by F. Scott Fitzgerald.

Speaker 1 F. Scott Fitzgerald, of course, famously wrote The Great Gatsby, among other things.

Speaker 1 And if folks aren't as familiar with The Great Gatsby, I will just note that that like bodies floating in pools and green lights out on the bay, both of which we see in this episode, are classic Gatsby moments.

Speaker 1 The beautiful and the damned,

Speaker 1 and this is just from oldwikipedia.com,

Speaker 1 quote, the work focuses on the swinish behavior,

Speaker 1 glittering excesses of the American idol rich. Wow.
Does that sound right to you?

Speaker 2 If Fitzgerald had a point of fixation, it was that.

Speaker 2 It does check out, certainly. My question to you, is this a book club book for her or not? Is this a book she picked up of her own volition?

Speaker 2 Or is it like, I need to read this so that I can discuss it over a glass of wine in two weeks?

Speaker 1 Yeah. You think the girls aren't reading Forth Wing in

Speaker 2 her book club? Every other book.

Speaker 2 I think they've already been there, done that, honestly.

Speaker 2 They've ripped through it.

Speaker 1 I wanted to read a couple quotes from The Beautiful and The Damned for you and see if you can figure out which character I'm thinking of on White Lotus when I read it to you.

Speaker 2 And these are characters from this season.

Speaker 1 This season of White Lotus. Got it.
From The Beautiful and the Damned by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
Quote: Here's alcohol, the rose-colored glasses of life.

Speaker 2 Let me stop you. That's Lori.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's Carrie Coon. Okay.

Speaker 1 This one's probably the hardest. Okay.

Speaker 1 Quote, tired with everything. tired with the world's weight he had never chosen to bear.

Speaker 2 Hmm.

Speaker 2 i could see tim ratliff for that it could be and that's probably better but uh i was just thinking of rick walton goggins as he rolls up to the beach and he just looks so bedraggled like no one has ever looked looked more wilted in his life he's so grumpy grumpy goggins is a very particular flavor that we don't get that often true uh i'm enjoying it and i i can't wait to see look we haven't even barely even touched the rick and chelsea elements of uh this first episode so far

Speaker 1 there's a lot going on i i would never deprive you of the opportunity to talk about Walton Goggins. It means a lot to me.

Speaker 2 I promise you.

Speaker 1 Okay. Two more quotes, and then we're out of here.
In crowded rooms, they would form words with their lips for each other's eyes.

Speaker 2 Ooh, okay.

Speaker 2 I think there's a couple answers for this one.

Speaker 2 I could see

Speaker 2 Kate and Jacqueline. I could also see

Speaker 2 Piper and Locke.

Speaker 2 Because they seem to have a particular connection. And there's like a, there's an actual intimacy to Piper and Locke that I think is

Speaker 2 worth watching and worth charting. And I'm curious to see exactly what their relationship is.
But there's a closeness there for sure.

Speaker 1 Is it a wholesome closeness time we'll talk about?

Speaker 2 Who knows?

Speaker 1 I was thinking of at least at any given time, two members of the blonde blob

Speaker 1 rolling their eyes about the third member. And I feel like they all sort of take their turn in doing so.

Speaker 2 So you see it as like a true triangle. Because to me, it feels like there are, to me, it feels like what has happened is there's Jacqueline and there's Kate who wants to be Jacqueline.

Speaker 2 And they have a particular connection. I'm guessing maybe originally their dynamic was a little flipped and it's become kind of muddled over time.

Speaker 2 And then there's Lori, who is the third friend who is not taking a victory tour.

Speaker 1 And then Lori, who is also there.

Speaker 2 She is also the, oh, and you.

Speaker 1 I just think

Speaker 1 like you're completely right that there are all these moments where

Speaker 1 Jaclyn and Kate are complimenting each other and then they like remember to acknowledge that Lori's in the room. Yes, it's terribly awkward.

Speaker 1 I think there were just a few times that Jacqueline was like, I would sleep in a tree, but I feel like Lori and Kate looked at each other. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Oh, so generous.

Speaker 1 Oh, so nice. So I just feel like, I feel like it's sort of at any given moment, the looks can go in any given direction.

Speaker 2 I love, I love the blob. I love, I love the fancy cougars.
They're a delight.

Speaker 1 They're great. Okay, this is the last one.
It's not to any character. This is just what I think the whole show is about.
All right.

Speaker 1 From

Speaker 1 The Beautiful and the Damned by F. Sufficient.
Quote, things are sweeter when they're lost. I know because I once wanted something and got it.
It was the only thing I ever wanted badly.

Speaker 1 And when I got it, it turned to dust in my hands.

Speaker 2 But I was told by Saxon that life is all about getting the things you want. Is it not?

Speaker 1 Respect, pussy, success.

Speaker 2 All I know is that is the guy that I want to take life advice from. He seems like he's got it all figured out.
He's got the shirt tucked in. He's got the little band on his sunglasses.

Speaker 2 He refuses to surrender his cell phone. Like, that guy's got it together.

Speaker 1 The way the women actively turn away from him when he talks to them.

Speaker 2 He does. But I will say,

Speaker 2 Chelsea is not checking him out.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's a little side eye between the two of them happening.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, he's not going to let the opportunity to

Speaker 2 towel off in front of a woman go by him. And so, like, he's making it a point to be seen, but it does seem like she's at least kind of clocking the peripheral.

Speaker 1 I want to talk about Chelsea and Rick in a second because obviously I need you to get your goggins takes off. But before we leave this, I just want to say that last quote:

Speaker 1 when you think about, and they talked about this in the official pod, when you think about, they did not talk about F.

Speaker 1 Scott Visher at all, but when you talk about Thailand and Buddhism, this core tenet of Buddhism that is suffering is caused by needs, attachment, desire. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is

Speaker 1 white Lotus says it is white Lotus.

Speaker 2 It's also, I will say, quite astute of Saxon to even broach these ideas as he's talking about what life is all about. I mean, he clearly inverts a lot of it and gets it quite wrong.

Speaker 2 But the fact that he even has these touchstones to understand the differences between him and his sister, I think is more than I gave him credit for.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about Rick and Chelsea.

Speaker 2 What a pair.

Speaker 1 Two main theories floating around Rick right now. I mean, we'll get to the sort of like,

Speaker 1 what does he want with Scott Glenn question that Bill and Mal and I entertained. Before we get there,

Speaker 1 I'm going to pose these two theories to you. Okay.
Is Rick a grifter

Speaker 1 who can't go to Australia?

Speaker 1 Or is he a secret agent of some kind? Oh, okay. Undercover

Speaker 1 FBI, CIA, something like that.

Speaker 2 I think grungier than that. To me, a lot of what's happening with Rick and a lot of the things that Chelsea is saying about him read more Hitman or Readmore Bounty Hunter.

Speaker 2 Specifically this idea that they were supposed to go one place and then plans changed dramatically and they now have to go to Thailand and there's no arguing out like out of it.

Speaker 2 Like he has some kind of job to do here. That feels more

Speaker 1 work-based, not personal.

Speaker 2 I think this is work-based. I think like something came up and he found out that Hollinger was going to be at this place at this time, or at least was supposed to be.

Speaker 2 and is showing up with some intention of talk. I don't know if it's talking to him.
I don't know if it's capturing him. I don't know know if it's killing him.
I don't, maybe he's like a drug mule.

Speaker 2 Like, I think it's something more on the other side of the law, but maybe that's just Goggins pulling the wool over my eyes yet again, as I am inclined to see him as some such a scamp.

Speaker 1 He is, he's an outlaw, famously.

Speaker 1 You know, okay, so Jim Hollinger,

Speaker 1 you know, I'm going to assume that people, not every single person listening to this episode, necessarily heard Bill and Mal and I talk about this, but Jim Hollinger,

Speaker 1 owner of, I don't know if it's just this white lotus or all white low-tie. Unclear.

Speaker 1 Unclear if it's a franchise or not.

Speaker 1 Played by the great actor Scott Glenn.

Speaker 2 Yeah. A Leftovers reunion with Carrie Kuhn.

Speaker 2 Let me do that again. Yeah.
A Leftovers reunion with Carrie Kuhn and a bad monkey reunion, Joe, with Michelle Monaghan. Like, all of our people are coming together here.

Speaker 1 I didn't think we'd ever talk about bad monkey again, but here we are in the baddest of monkey shows.

Speaker 2 You mean a show with some mystical animal involvement about man and nature and how they interact and how perhaps we've overstepped?

Speaker 1 Will Michelle have another moment with a hippo? Time will tell.

Speaker 2 I think it was a man at TB.

Speaker 1 Oh, it was a mana TM. Sorry.
Thank you. Scott Glenn, great actor.
We see him in the photo only, but he is playing Jim Hollinger.

Speaker 2 Clearly Scott Glenn.

Speaker 1 Who Rick has...

Speaker 1 clearly is disappointed to find is not here at the White Lotus. And you think this is a job of a hit,

Speaker 2 an assignation or something like that i think something like that and that and that would be the reason he potentially can't go to australia is he's in some kind of legal trouble there right

Speaker 2 whereas bill and mal and i were pretty firmly on like we think this is his dad or something like that i mean like i again i get it from the physical resemblance element that you guys talked about like i i would not buy it but this feels more business than personal or pleasure to me

Speaker 2 and and i think the chelsea element while i'm sure fun for rick in some ways is also just good cover right to travel as a couple versus like a solo weirdo who's very upset that this one random businessman was not there.

Speaker 2 Like, that's not a good look.

Speaker 1 Because, what else? I mean, he just does not seem to like her in this episode. So, why else would he be?

Speaker 2 I mean, and I don't know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. Amy Lee, are you a sex education watcher?

Speaker 2 I have seen the, I've seen a couple seasons.

Speaker 2 I'm mixed on the show overall, but she is consistently a delight. A delight.
Absolutely. And is that here too? Like, she's the most well-adjusted person at this whole freaking resort.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 I heard someone identify themselves as a Chelsea, and I'm like, we all hope we're the Chelsea.

Speaker 2 Aspirationally.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure we are.

Speaker 1 And yeah. So anything else you want to say about Chelsea or Amy Lee Wood in general and her performance?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think ultimately, like, it's not surprising to me that she can make fast friends with Chloe, this other woman at the bar. And we, you know, if we want to dive into the Greg part stuff.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm ready to talk about Greg anytime.

Speaker 2 perfectly uh you know open to lots of theories on that front uh but but i think she strikes me as a character who could bounce out of her little her little click right her little family her little den of people like i think we're starting to see the ways in which the rat lifts and uh you know wait oh sorry we're starting to see the ways in which the rat lifts and rick and chelsea and the blonde blob all might bump up against each other and some of those are like straight young guy being horny vibes vibes, and some of them are potentially the fact that like Chelsea just seems like a social butterfly of a character who I would not be surprised if she makes friends with any number of the people who are on this show, absolutely, uh, and and it seems like might have some time to kill, you know.

Speaker 2 I don't know what Rick's up to, but it's not getting it's not engaging in tantric activities with her, and that's a miss.

Speaker 1 Uh, okay,

Speaker 1 Chloe

Speaker 1 and Greg.

Speaker 1 Um, this is something I raised with Bill and Mel, and I have no, I don't know

Speaker 1 what to say about it. I just think it's interesting that

Speaker 1 the character of Chloe is originally cast as a Thai actress, and then they recast her as a white actress. And I don't know why, but that feels not, not important or something.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like that feels

Speaker 1 not intentional.

Speaker 2 Well, especially for a show that historically has a lot of attention paid to the way that like wealthy white tourists in particular have these relationships with the people who are working at these resorts the indigenous communities around them like the nate the people who are native to that region exactly and how these like apparently a bunch of bald white dudes kind of parachute into thailand especially and shots fired at bald white dudes but shots fired at walton goggins who has been balded up as far as i can tell just to have just to take a bullet for a joke

Speaker 1 not not necessary at all like everyone we were we were talking this a little bit off mic uh mal and bill and i but like everyone i kind of feel like mike White did this to everyone. Like he, he

Speaker 1 drew attention to Amy Liu's teeth, distinctive teeth.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He had Leslie Bibb and Michelle Monaghan talk about their surgery.

Speaker 2 Steve Zahn's testicles previously. Like, look, there's a lot going on.
There's a humbling that needs to happen early in a season of White Lotus or late as well.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about Greg. What do you want to say?

Speaker 2 I'm a little torn on how much I like the through lines for White Lotus.

Speaker 2 And I think it's a show that overall has has a lot of discretion as far as how much it wants to have characters bouncing between seasons.

Speaker 2 We have Belinda here, clearly, who's going to be another through line for us. I'm assuming she and Greg are going to bump into each other sooner than later.
They're already in the same restaurant.

Speaker 1 It would be deeply weird if they didn't.

Speaker 2 It would be very strange. And that seems like a natural collision for their respective plot lines and kind of how and why Greg would be involved in the story to this point.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I have no idea what to expect or like how quickly or if Belinda would start putting pieces together at all or exactly like why she would take a driving interest in him and his activities beyond everything else she has going on, which is seeming like a three-month stay at the Sledger Resort to learn some wellness practices.

Speaker 2 Like, she's got a lot to do, and here's a guy who is like tangentially related to someone she knew a couple years ago.

Speaker 1 Who she does, she even know that Tanya's dead.

Speaker 2 I don't know. And did she like, did she never want to think about Tanya again after she walked out the door, given the way that she was treated?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 I want to go back to, yeah, I don't have anything else to say about Greg at the moment. I am curious how much he's in this.

Speaker 1 It was like a fun surprise to a certain degree, because I think, you know, we all knew that Belinda was in the season, but

Speaker 1 we were not expecting that John Grease would be the recurring actor in every season of White Lotus.

Speaker 2 It is nice to think that for a show that has as sprawling a cast as this and very splashy announcements when those casts come together, there are still surprises.

Speaker 2 There's still room for whether it's a recurring character, whether it's a surprise guest star. Like, there's room for stuff to just happen in White Lotus in ways that we would never expect.

Speaker 1 I'm excited by the prospect of that. If there's, like, you know, as we had with last season,

Speaker 1 the Tom Hollander character, and as a fellow, Hannah Stan, I know you were excited to see him like checks in late in the week. Like, who could be showing up that they perhaps haven't even announced?

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 How are the monkeys going to get the guns? Like, who knows what's going to happen, Joe?

Speaker 1 What's going to happen?

Speaker 1 Last question for you.

Speaker 1 I gave my sort of checkoffs list to Bill and Mal of the monkeys, the poisonous fruit, the guys with the gun.

Speaker 1 I want to, but one that I didn't sort of dial in on, but sort of going over the opening credits with a fine-tooth comb, I had a question.

Speaker 1 Will we get a tsunami? There's like a lot of storm imagery in the opening credits and a lot of like people being swallowed by sea creatures images in the opening credits is do you think

Speaker 1 you know and mike white has said in interviews again i'm not reading a ton of interviews because i'm trying to keep myself as pure as possible but like also mike white as we've said is only going to give you so much it's true but he is he keeps talking about and maybe he's overplaying his hand i don't know but keeps talking about the season as like the biggest thing they've ever done the darkest the like wildest that it's all going to lead up to like this sort of thing is classic sort of well say about any season but like mike white doesn't seem like a guy who's going to like overblow.

Speaker 1 So, I think we are going to see a leveling up of some kind. So, could we see,

Speaker 1 in addition to whatever the monkey shootout is in the final episode, could we see a sort of natural disaster of some kind hit the White Lotus in Thailand?

Speaker 2 Very much seems possible. And I think it's not completely separate from what Mike White has done in other forms of storytelling.

Speaker 2 Like, Enlightened is a show that levels up and changes dramatically very, very quickly. To a point that I think for some viewers, myself included, was like, I had a little bit of whiplash from that.

Speaker 2 And it wasn't always what I wanted it to be by the end.

Speaker 2 But like, he has proven that he will scrap an idea, that he will turn a show on its head, that he will introduce a dramatic, literal force of nature, if that's what the show calls for.

Speaker 2 You know, if that's what the character dynamics need to really shake them loose in like a force majeure kind of way,

Speaker 2 I think that could be a wonderful addition to the season.

Speaker 1 Force majeure is like

Speaker 1 the greatest white lotus comp I could think of. Anything else you want to mention? We have not talked about Valentin or porn chai or very little about Pam, my fave.
Amarita. Fabian.

Speaker 2 I mean, porn chai seems like a great hang. He seems like a delightful fellow.

Speaker 2 No notes at all. Great, great hospitality style.
I'm really digging his vibe.

Speaker 1 Completely agree. Fabian,

Speaker 1 the hapless, bumbling, anxious manager. How are you feeling about him?

Speaker 2 I'm not in favor.

Speaker 1 I'm a big fan of him. Not as like I want to hang out with him, just like in terms of really fun to watch.
Absolutely. And Valentin, he's from Russia.
Anything you want to say?

Speaker 2 He's certainly from Russia. I love that the blonde blob has no response to that.

Speaker 2 None whatsoever.

Speaker 1 In fact, Jacqueline was sort of like, huh, like, I don't know. Yeah, it was a, it was an odd moment.
I love that.

Speaker 2 I did appreciate the theorizing on who was going to wind up sleeping with whom of the blonde blob.

Speaker 1 What do you got?

Speaker 2 I mean, Valentin's right there, clearly, first and foremost. I just don't know that Carrie Kuhn's lorry is going to be as successful as you guys seem to.

Speaker 1 Wow. You don't believe in Carrie Kuhn?

Speaker 2 I believe in Carrie Kuhn. I believe in the real Carrie Kuhn.
They are really trying to muss her up here and throw her under the bus.

Speaker 2 And frankly, I'm more, I have my eye to on my wall zero days since Lori last had a breakdown. And it's just going to be that all season.

Speaker 2 I think I'm just going to be constantly resetting the clock as she goes back into her room and screams in agony over something that happened.

Speaker 2 And like, here we're thinking she's going to romance like Russian massage therapists. I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know that he's going to romance her.

Speaker 2 Well, Well, that's very possible.

Speaker 1 Here's my question.

Speaker 1 As a preeminent Carrie Kuhn scholar, coonologist.

Speaker 1 I don't like it.

Speaker 1 What did you make of this kind of crying versus the work we've seen her do in the leftovers, etc.?

Speaker 2 I mean, it's more pathetic on purpose. Yeah.
You know, like the crying in the leftovers is a moment of incredible catharsis that we have spent seasons building up to.

Speaker 2 Like, I have to say, just a character, it is impossible to watch The Leftovers and not feel a great deal of affection for Nora Durst, whatever you may think of the decisions she makes.

Speaker 2 Like, that's a character you come to really care about. This is someone I already kind of care about in Laurie,

Speaker 2 but she's having a tough time.

Speaker 1 What if Justin Thoreau checks in to the White Lotus on Wednesday?

Speaker 2 I will assent.

Speaker 1 Great. Well, that's something we can look forward to.
Anything else in the talk that we haven't had a chance to mention, Rob?

Speaker 2 I have one thing to ask you, Joe, which is this is not plot related. Okay.

Speaker 1 But after Rick is it about my LaCroix choices today, Rob?

Speaker 2 It might be indirectly.

Speaker 2 After Rick finds out that his mark, or whoever Hollinger is to him, is not, in fact, on the premises, on the grounds, gets very upset, storms out, cursing, goes immediately to the mini bar, pulls out a beer, and just starts going to work on it.

Speaker 2 I, for one, cannot think of a force on earth that would make me pull a beer out of the mini bar and pay a mini bar price for a bottle of beer.

Speaker 2 I'm curious about what your relationship is to a mini bar. Do you have these same strict lines that I do?

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 the question of if you're at a white lotus, is it not all inclusive?

Speaker 2 I don't think it's all inclusive. Oh, God, that's because they're paying for spa packages.
I assume they're paying for all of the gluten-free rice balls, you know, everything.

Speaker 1 I would never touch a white lotus mini bar because that is

Speaker 1 the most expensive mini bar of all time. Uh, the only time I will ever touch a mini bar, and it is infrequent, is at my old job when uh, they didn't make us itemize our hotel receipts.

Speaker 1 And so, just on the bill, just on the bill.

Speaker 2 Well, maybe this is the strongest argument yet that he is, in fact, a government plant, a Fed of some kind. He's he's on the clock because he's going to be expensing that beer.

Speaker 2 That's not his concern anymore.

Speaker 1 Spotify, if you're listening, I don't do that in your system, it doesn't allow for that. But Connie Nas, if you're listening, I definitely used to do that to you.
Okay, um,

Speaker 1 so that is White Lotus, it is season three, episode one.

Speaker 1 Rob and I will be back on Friday, talk about severance.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 I'm having a little bit of brain bleed with all the shows that we're covering right now, but the pineapples are not helping. I think this will be fine.
Um, I'm, I,

Speaker 1 I feel some kinship with Mark on uh severance right now, yeah.

Speaker 1 But we'll be back. Um,

Speaker 1 thanks to everyone who worked on this episode: John Eacham, John Richter, Justin Sales. You all are the best, and we will see you soon.
Bye.