‘Only Murders in the Building’ Season 4 Finale: MVPs, Fit Lords, and More Murders

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You want us to call the police?

No, no, no.

He'll kill her if we do.

I will not be joining because I'm not insane.

But I will be contributing to today's caper by creating a front door distraction.

Front door distraction.

Now, is that a type of ding dong?

It is, Rudy.

Very good.

Ding dong. Charles, wait, wait, wait.
If you fall, angle your body away from my wedding. Everything's a rental.
Greetings and welcome to the Prestige TV podcast here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin and joining me today, telling me I'm his ride or die and his strong preferences ride.
It's everyone's favorite Westie, Ben Lindberg. It's true.
As a longtime Upper West Side apartment dweller, I've been preparing for this pod my whole life. Ben, it's great to be here with you today to talk about all the murders in the building.
If anyone is wondering, why am I hearing from these two? We're Joanna and Rob. Don't worry.
They'll be back with you to talk about the latest episode of Disclaimer. But today, Ben and I are here to chat about Only Murders.
We are going to do a season four review-ish in the form of awards. Season four superlatives.
We're going to hit some of the highlights from the latest season of Only Murders, and we're going to open with a few minutes. We're going to chat about the finale and just the season as a whole, some opening thoughts,

and then we're going to dive right in

to hand out our fictional awards.

I am thrilled to be with you to talk about,

I'll just spoil some of my eventual picks by saying this,

one of my favorite characters

in the history of television, Oliver Putnam.

Yep.

Genuinely can't wait to chat Putnam with you.

I will gladly do that.

I sense that we might have some overlap in our picks

and that might be one area where we both have some favorites. I consider it inevitable and I consider it not only acceptable, but appropriate that we have joined today.
No hummus, no dip in hand, but it's like it's with us in spirit as we team up to celebrate Oliver as we should. So spoiler warning before we get going, obviously anything that happened in the season four finale of Only Murders might come up today.
Anything that happened anywhere in season four of Only Murders might come up today. And guess what? If it's ever happened in the television program Only Murders in the Building, it might come up today.
It's on the table, much like the dips. Anything, Ben, that you would like to say on the spoiler warning front? Any other things that you intend to spoil from elsewhere in culture? Are we keeping it to the Arconia? We'll try to keep it to the Arconia.
I just hope I can explain all of the ins and outs of season four to you. You may actually spoil the plot of the season to me as we record, even though I've seen the entire thing.
I don't know if that's likely. I'm also a little under the weather today, even by my usual standard.
My brain is not completely functioning. So will I forget a stray Westie or a particular red herring? It's entirely possible.
We'll see.

Ben, not that we don't love watching you stare out the window like a sad war widow, but it's time to pod.

Tap in.

Quick thoughts.

Opening snapshot.

How did the finale measure up to past finales for you, Ben?

How did you feel about the finale of this season? And how did you feel about the season overall? Let's just hit this for a few minutes before we dive into our awards. Well, I don't know about you, but I don't think of this as such a finale-centric series, which might be sort of surprising for a mystery show where you're supposed to get the big reveal.
In this case, there barely was one, and that's kind of okay, right? I don't think of Only Murders as a show about intricate, precise plotting where it all comes together and dazzles you. Yeah, you have the Agatha Christie style, everyone gets together in the parlor and we explain exactly what happened here, which is easier to follow in some seasons than others, I will say.
And I think it's for the best that I view the show that way, because I think this season excels in other respects, let's say. I think this is a hangout show for me.
This is just my pals. This is my group of lonely misfits finding each other, finding meaning.
And there was plenty of that this season. So the actual mystery, I would say, was more slapdash than it has been in previous seasons.
And at times, that was a little frustrating. It was, you know, all over the place at times, both figuratively and literally.
So I'd say on the whole, perhaps the season was less than some of its parts, but it had so many parts. So many parts.
So many moving parts. And ultimately, though, it comes down to the characters in this show.
And if anything, I care about the characters more as the series proceeds. So that aspect of the series is still delivering for me.
Yeah. So we have actually, despite chatting with each other very routinely about many aspects of both pop culture and sports, and of course, also most importantly of all our pets, we haven't talked about only murders together much over the years, but I am completely unsurprised that our relationship to the story is very similar.
I also view it as a hangout show that I not only enjoy, but have really, really, really over time come to cherish. I love these people and I enjoy spending time with them.
I did find this season plenty to celebrate, plenty to highlight, plenty that I loved as we will explore together today. I did find the season less successful overall in many respects than some prior seasons, but I still enjoyed being with my buds in the Arconia.
And those moments in particular, when they are together, when they're looking for a clue, when they're working on their various and sundry murder boards, that's just always joyous. And like some of the moments between them that later in this season that I have no doubt will come up today, where really they like drilled down on the depth of the devotion that they had like forged with each other.
I found myself so moved by it. And thinking back to the fact that like these are just people who ran into each other in the elevator or looked over at a table in a diner and realized they like the same podcast.
And then something beautiful spawned from it. And God, if there's anything in the world that the two of us can relate to, it's that.
You know, spend a lot of time alone in your home, not talking to other people and then bond over a podcast. Can't really relate to making friends with my neighbors.
Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, same.
When I'm in an elevator with someone, it's silence, it's stare at the wall. This is why I never make great friends with my neighbors.
Except for my latest one, I just moved into a new building and my across-the-hall neighbor, great, great woman. So I look forward to getting to know her better and perhaps making podcasts with her at some point.
I mean, look at this. If this is not the lesson that Charles and Oliver taught us, that it's never too late to make new friends.
I don't know what is. That's right.
Did you enjoy the kind of like self-referential nature of some of the aspects of how the seasons are structured? Like Mabel in episode three saying, how come the actors couldn't come for one of our finales? When we figure out everything all at once. And I did think it was interesting that this season then, we found out who the killer was and what actually had happened.
I'm going to call him, are you going to call him Rex Bailey or are you going to call him Marshall? Yeah, Rex Marshall. I guess he'd prefer Marshall.
He's like, which is awesome. He's earned that from us.
Is it? Marshall. I'm going to stick with Marshall, I think.
We learned, you know, the truth was revealed to us in the penultimate episode ahead of when our intrepid podcasters pieced it all together, which was like slightly different structurally. So that was interesting.
I think also, obviously, this season, the idea of the victim being as central to the mystery as the murderer, you know, who was really meant to be on the other end of the sniper. And of course, we learn at the conclusion of the season that it was, in fact, Saz, not Charles.
Like that was, you know, one of our categories today is going to be the red herring,, but that was one of the great red herrings of the season, this idea that actually really the killer was after Charles. And then we have the photo shoot bullet ricocheting off of Glenn Stevens' brain plate into Galifianakis' side.
Oh, that was meant for Oliver. Oh, they're all in jeopardy.
They're all targets. It's like, actually, Saz wasn't shot just because she was in Charles' apartment, dressed like Charles.
Saz was the target. So that was kind of an interesting wrinkle in the season as well.
I have a couple questions for you about where we find the show overall. Are there officially too many famous people in Only Murders in the building? Like when you talk about all of the different components of the season and how many, you know, when you said like some of the parts, but oh boy, there are a lot of parts.
How much of that for you is about, and I guess these things are inextricable from each other, aspects of the plot, different storylines. And how much of that for you is about just the sheer volume of star power and like the question of how much oxygen there is to go around.
I found that to be a little, the calibration was off for me this season on that front. Like every individual person was great and it was wonderful to have them all on the show.
But I just thought there were too many of them. And then because of that, like we didn't have enough time to like really, you know, we've got our main cast.
We've got the Arconia crew who like really were relegated to the back burner. Like we barely got any time with our beloved Arconia residents.
And we have the Westies, right? We have like the studio, the people making the movies. We've got the love interests.
We've got the siblings. There were just so many people.
We've got random cameos from Ron Howard. So, so, so many people.
I did get a real kick out of Oliver in episode nine saying, finally, a celebrity this season. Yes, exactly.
I was going to bring that up because you mentioned the self-referential aspect of the show, which has kind of been present from the start just because there's a show within the show. And so they're constantly talking in terms of episodes, which correspond to the episodes of the show.
But it's gotten much more meta as the series has gone on to the point that in the finale, they're referencing how you know there's going to be another murder to set up the next season, right? I enjoyed Oliver saying like, or Charles saying like, finally, like four seasons in, you have a good pitch. And Oliver's like, four seasons in, I'm cooking with gas.

To your point, like in theory, they're talking about their podcast, but actually talking about their show.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There was a case of too many cooks going on here, I think.

It got to the point where every time a new character was introduced, I sort of braced myself for, okay, who's the guest star going to be when we meet Charles's sister, Doreen, who's delightful, by the way.

But I'm thinking to myself, well, who's it going to be? Oh, it's Melissa McCarthy, right? It's fucking Melissa McCarthy. Yeah.
Which, you know, individually, every person who appears on the series is precious, right? Yeah. Incredible.
I'm not unhappy to see Zach Galifianakis. I'm a Galifianatic.
Or, you know, you got to... You're not alone.
Yeah. Right? Get Eugene Levy in here, please, by all means.
There can never be too much. In isolation, though, when it's kind of an ensemble situation.
Yeah. Do you remember? I know you remember.
I don't know how many of our listeners will remember the Mandalorian episode with Jack Black and Lizzo and Christopher Lloyd. Favidly.
Yeah. It's just, you know, it takes you out of things a little bit.
Here's a galaxy a long time ago, far, far away, but also Jack Black and Liz over here. That's kind of what I felt.
And the thing is that Meryl Streep is, you know, the highest wattage star of anyone here, but she's also Meryl Streep and she has this unique preternatural ability to blend into everything, right? It's kind of a cliche, the idea of an actor disappearing into a role, but no one has ever been better at that than Meryl Streep. She is Loretta.
She is Loretta. I'm not thinking, oh, look, it's Meryl Streep acting.
I'm thinking that's Loretta. You're thinking, when can I tune in to Norfbun? I need the latest episode of Norfb Bun before the New Zealand relocation.
Especially when people are playing themselves, which I enjoy in general, but that is putting it very much front and center, right? Just the guest star aspect of it all. And as you said, that leaves less time for the characters that we care about.
You know, no Cinda Canning, no Tina Fey this season. I was sad to not see her.
Barely any Detective Williams. Really, the absence of the police in general.
I'm coming back to Detective Williams in our category state. Fear not.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it was a bit busy. I think that is safe to say.
Even when Will showed up in the wedding, I was like, is Oliver's family? Which has been incredibly central to the story so far, just not in this season at all. And then the wedding rolls around and it's like, okay, there's Winnie, there's Will, here they are.
There just wasn't clearly any time or space for them in the show. One of the things that really struck me, I mean, obviously we're about to get to Lester when we talk about our beloved Arconia family, Uma.
Yes. Icon legend always.
Of course. There's a moment in episode six when Uma says, because of you, they've installed cameras everywhere in case you're murdered.
Can't cut a fart or steal a newspaper anymore without being watched. And it was like one of maybe three or four times that Uma appeared in the season.
And like, to me, that's the show. Yeah.
She'd show up in an elevator and get off a one-liner and that was that. And it's sort of sad because yeah, the aspect of the community of the building, granted we get introduced to the Westies, so we're opening up a whole new side of the Arcadia, but it feels a little less like a living, breathing place where these people we

know are popping in and out. And on the other hand, you know, the core trio is back together

when they're on the screen, at least, which is welcome, because in season three, they're off

doing their own things, right? And they briefly split up, and it's a solo podcast for an episode,

and Oliver's working on his musical. So it's nice to have them all kind of come back together

There is... things, right? And they briefly split up and it's a solo podcast for an episode and Oliver's working on his musical.
So it's nice to have them all kind of come back together and be closer than ever. Yes, for sure.
And yet, also we're just trying to cram so many other extraneous characters into the frame that they're forced out at times. Yeah.
Now, like, don't get us wrong. We would welcome a sweaty Betty.
Oh, sure. We would take a sip.
We would try it. Of course, we are amused when Zach Galifianakis or excuse me, should we officially refer to him as Galifianakis as Detective Williams would like us to.
The moment where we cut to the cell phone video of him saying Bev Mellon sucked his IV back dry like a Capri Sun. Like you said, all of these moments individually are just delightful.
It's incredibly amusing. It's charming.
And part of the thing that we love about the spirit of the show, which is, as you said, the hang in the community, I do think the element of the people making it want to feel that way about it too. And that means bringing on a bunch of people that they're actually friends with or like acting with, or like performing comedy with, like all of that makes sense to me.
I think a slight refocus on the Arconia in season five will be appropriate. And that brings us to briefly before we get to our superlatives, the setup that we got for season five, because I found myself worrying, you know, season four opens with a trip out to Los Angeles and you're like, oh my God, are they actually going to leave New York? Are they going to leave Arconia? Are they going to set an entire, like I had seen the trailer, so I knew that wasn't true, but I was like, oh my God, what? When Seinfeld, when the gang goes to LA for a Jerry late night show, you're unmoored.
You're out of your usual world. Unmoored is the perfect word for it.
So I did wonder if we were building toward finally, truly breaking away from the, as they always love to remind us, like it's right there in the title of their podcast and the show, they only thought about murders in the building, but no. Lester, our beautiful, beloved Lester, died so that only murders in the building could live.
Season five is going to focus on a couple things that seems apparent, and these things already seem to be tied because Lester is found dead in the fountain. The fountain that he was talking about earlier in the finale, right there, his own wedding, his wedding in the courtyard, under the stars, the fountain.
Very sad. Chekhov's fountain.
Indeed. Oliver's saying when they ran into Lester as they're all hurrying out, and they ran into him earlier in the finale, and Oliver's like, what? All he does is let in murderers.
It's true. Yeah.

And then I guess he did it again, Ben.

And then Tay Leoni shows up in the finale of Only Murders.

Mm-hmm.

Charles calls her a dame.

Mabel gives him an eye roll that we can feel in our souls.

And she's there connecting to something we saw, Mabel saw, and we saw on the hospital TV in the penultimate episode when she was there to check in on Glenn Stubbins, RIP. Glenn Stubbins kills me as a name.
It's just so funny. Glenn Stubbins.
It does. It kind of tells you just, I guess, the regard in which this show is held and this cast is held in Hollywood that everyone wants to be on it.
And so Paul Rudd's like, sure, put me in this cap and make me do an Irish accent. And I'm down for that.
And I'll do it for a couple episodes and I'll jump in a dumpster if you want me to. I think it just goes to show these people are having a good time making this show

and so we're having a good time watching them

but yes we have a you want me to? Like, this is, I think it just goes to show like these people are having a good time

making this show.

And so we're having a good time

watching them.

But yes,

we have a couple different threads

setting up aspects

of the next season.

And it looks like

we've got not only a murder

in the building.

Nicky Cachemilio

is missing, Ben.

Nicky the Neck,

the dry cleaning king of Brooklyn

has been reported missing.

And his wife,

Taya Leone, is here to say, I don't think he's missing. Something's going on.
Need you to look in. Always happy to see Teo Leone show up.
My childhood crush made a deep impact on me at a formative time in my life. But I'm also sort of excited to see, you know, we're working in a mob connection here.
To this point, the series has been about small-time crooks, almost accidental murderers, maybe. Not so much premeditated in some cases.
And now maybe the crew is leveling up a little. They've solved a few murders.
They're professionals at this. It's time to take on organized crime.
And that's sort of exciting. On the other hand, we don't want to lose the community aspect of it, the tie to the building.
And that's presumably where the late Lester comes in. Yes, I think that the Lester tie certainly will.
What history Lester and Nikki the Neck have together, who can say? But her character, Sophia, assures them when they push back, no, we're not PIs for hire. We only work in the building.
Oh, what happened to Nikki the neck? It has everything to do with this building. And then Ben, I was looking back through my notes on the season and I had written down in episode five, when Charles is sketching out the time frame and how he thinks the time frame holds, he says, and finally, using what I assume is one of my missing suit bags, our killer hoists the body over his shoulder and disposes of it.
Wow. Suit bag, missing suit bag, dry cleaning.
How long has the dry cleaning scheme been running through the bowels of the Arconia? Does it connect to gut milk? I love that we got a gut milk shout out still this season. Gut milk is eternal.
The show, we know Oliver loves a callback and the show is so good at them. The gut milk, the different people moving into Sting's apartment each season.
Loretta asking Oliver, where have you been in the finale? Echoing Oliver's line to her at the audition last season. Just perfect.
But I don't know how much of this is pre-plotted and pre-planned. We could maybe get into that a little later.
But yes, it is intriguing. This is not a show, again, where I'm on the OnlyMurder subreddit trying to piece things together before it comes together.
Because look look, it's not airtight. If we were to go over this plot with a fine-tooth comb, I don't know whether everything about Rex and Marshall would make sense.
How did Marshall know about the empty apartment? Okay, there's a little throwaway line there about how it was a subplot in Zaza's script know, they throw us a bone there so that it's not an

obvious plot hole, but there are a lot of things like, why would that have been in the movie draft? Why murder someone in the building when there is a podcast dedicated to solving such murders? You know, why couldn't they all just set up a meeting with Ron Howard through the studio? Who knows where Ron Howard is, but who cares, right? We want the hijinks and obviously the hijinks will keep coming. We know season five is on the way.
And shout out to shows that are still on an assembly line and that we can still count on. Just in the era of waiting two or three years between seasons, not remembering anything that happened by the time the series comes back, feeling like you need to rewatch to get up to speed again.
The few shows that do still keep coming like clockwork, Only Murders and The Bear and Slow Horses, etc. Every summer, you know you're going to get new Only Murders.
You're going to be back with your pals again. And that's nice.
And I got to say also, I binged this season as opposed to watching week to week. Because, you know, again, it's not so much appointment viewing must see this immediately before it gets spoiled sort of series for me.
So I waited and I caught up and I felt like that helped actually because I wasn't on the edge of my seat trying to piece together the plot and, you know, cliffhangers and suspense. I was just kind of mainwinding, marathoning everything.
Yeah. And so, you know, they were dangling little tidbits and morsels.
And then it was just like, all right, next episode, let's move on.

It's interesting that you say that because I rewatched it heading into the finale.

And week to week this season, I feel like this is fun.

This is good, but I'm not feeling like quite the way I felt about it before.

And then when I watched it all on Saturday afternoon, it's like, you know, the show's still a delight. Yes.

Yeah. It's definitely the preferred

way to watch.

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Okay, should we get to our superlatives?

Should we hit some of the highlights?

Kai, can you take us into the superlatives with a little clip?

He's gonna get you.

Who?

Who will?

I.

No. I.
No word. What? So you watched her die, and you threw her down the trash chute like she was garbage.
Think of it as her final stunt. It's at the vibrator setting.
Damn it, even Longoria. Ben, nothing sets the mood for superlatives quite like the Lady Longoria.
Will you pick the Lady Longoria for our first category? Who can say? Let's find out together. We are starting with season MVP.
I have very little doubt we have the same pick here, but maybe we'll surprise each other. Who do you have and why? Yeah, I will not pick the Lady Longoria.
She did a fair amount with her minutes, even though her character didn't have a whole lot to do. But we're going to go with Oliver.
We both are. I mean, he's the perennial MVP, right? Of course, yes.
It's a group effort. You know, we're talking about how maybe there are just too many shooters on this super team that they've constructed.
The roster synergy is not there, but Oliver is holding things down, holding things together year after year. And he actually revealed some new dimensions to me this season.
I don't know that there was that much growth for, say, Mabel. Mabel didn't have a whole lot to do this season, which was sort of disappointing.
But Oliver, still zany, still Mr. Madcap, still prancing around, but also kind of a depth to him and emotionality, which in my mind, almost mirrored Zach Galifianakis' deepening appreciation of the character.
This is not just a superficial fop. This is a man who is a romantic, a man who has deep, meaningful relationships, who has been through many near-death experiences, including who knows how many heart attacks.

And he has come through that.

No heart attacks this season, by the way. We've really abandoned the Oliver Hart plot.

We have.

Yeah, just let him have his dip.

I don't want to worry about his blood pressure.

But he really connected with Charles, with Loretta on a deep level, you know, bringing his usual fashion sense, his usual joie de vivre, his ageless hair, which I just I want to know so much more about the hair care routine of Martin Short and what exactly is happening there. But whatever it is, I hope to learn from it.
And I just got very invested in that character and also in his relationship with Loretta while at the same time getting equally invested in the real life relationship of Martin Short and Meryl Streep. Can I tell you something embarrassing? Please.
Since I literally live my life online for my job, I find it mortifying to say this out loud. This was complete news to me the last couple of days, like prepping for this pod, rewatching the season.
Yeah. I did not know.
Okay. Let me put it this way.
I did not know that this was a thing, that there have been rumors and questions and that people for basically a year have been speculating about whether they are in love in real life.

Yes.

But I knew.

Like when I saw these headlines, I was like, of course, people have been wondering this because their chemistry on screen is so electric and so beautiful. And the kind of thing, the rare thing in this world that makes me feel like a modicum of possibility that when you grow old, someone might still love you and want you.
It's like so aspirational and wonderful. Oh man, they're just delightful together.
They are deeply in love, whether that is a platonic love or a romantic physical love. That has not yet been established beyond all doubt, but they deeply adore each other.
And it is fun for all of us to ship them and to follow them throughout their many dinner dates and awards gala sitting next to each other episodes. So, you know, when they're exchanging their vows in this episode, it's too real.

I hope it's real.

What was it?

It was like, be my man, be my husband, be my friend, be my lover.

I was like, yes!

So good.

Yeah.

So I hope that Loretta flitting off to New Zealand does not portend less Meryl Streep, less Devil Wears Prada to perhaps conflicts in her schedule. Who knows? But that would be very sad if Oliver's love interest was to suddenly disappear much like Maples did.
Can't bear it. I need him to—ob they have some murders to investigate back in New York, but I need him to fly over as promised.
Maybe they can go do a little Lord of the Rings visit together. He mentioned only sheep, but there's the Shire as well, Oliver.
Yeah, they're incredible together. When she cupped his face and said, like, where have you been? Oh my gosh.
Yes. When they get engaged and he says, before I accept, is there any family money? Which was apparently an ad-libbed line by the brilliant Martin Short.
You can tell because that was a perfect TV moment. Her laughter and response to that was so authentic and sincere.
And that's what's wonderful. And that gets to what you were saying earlier about these people just clearly love making this show together.
And so no matter exactly what shape the mystery takes or what they play with structurally or how big the cast gets, that will always be a source of joy. And you feel it so keenly in a moment like that, like that's really a precious gift to make somebody laugh like that.
And for us to get to watch it, that's awesome. Delightful.
Anything else on your MVP case for Oliver? Yeah. The distant second, whoever would be second, you know, plenty of great contributors here, but Oliver's just putting up points left and right here.
Just so many of the great lines. I mean, the running bits, the tech ineptitude, which granted low-hanging fruit, just, you know, making fun of a boomer for not being able to lower the dimness on their tablet, but just never gets old.
This was in the running for my favorite moment of the season.

Obviously, part of my MVP case for Oliver.

Yes, my MVP is also Oliver. On the tech front, what I love is the way it works in both directions.
Part of the charm is Oliver always ribbing Charles. So Charles is like, and Oliver says, this was at the beginning of the season, it's like stepping into a sharper image catalog.
Like he's ready to mock Charles. But then the old guy schtick.
It's been a long time since, you know, the season one days of, you know, Charles parentheses old, right? On the text exchanges. But you still get moments like that where he's like, how did you do that above the E? And then Charles shows him.
But the iPad moment that you're referencing was, that's a Pantheon moment in the history of Only Murders when they are at concussions. And we get like the Charles version of it too.
Actually, I know we're talking about Oliver, but when he's trying to take photos of everybody in the Sting apartment, and he's going around and you can hear the shutter sound. But also, I literally turned to Adam when we were watching it and I i'm like he's definitely taking pictures of his inner ear or his cheek and shirt off charles was but the way that oliver is like just parading the gigantic ipad encased in like purple kevlar about and mabel says jesus turn your brightness.
I feel like I just looked into an eclipse. That just killed me.
And then just yelling, turn down brightness, just the best. Brightness.
We've all had those experiences with our beloved senior relatives. Oh, man.
In fact, I bought an automatic bottle opener for my great uncle, possibly from the Sharper Image. I don't know.
He loved it. He uses it.
So it's accurate. Or one of my favorites was Charles.
This is not just him being old, but also his kind of sad sack career. I mean, so many moments like that when he's doing background work and they just give him the extra role.
You can be in the movie. But also when IMDb comes up and he's like, my agent's going to get me on that.
Oh man, that killed me. That was brutal.
Poor Brazos. I love too, one of the Detective Williams scenes and he's like, like, Brazos.
It's just like, I got nothing for you, man. On the age front too, it was, in terms of again, the kind of meta aspect of the show, it was amusing when we got to hear about the focus group for the movie.
And they're like,

yeah, Mabel, like, the

aging up, why? Well, like,

the feedback was that this is, like,

pretty creepy.

The other thing I love about the age

jokes is that it does, again, it's like, it's circular.

It goes in all directions. It's not like Oliver on

the receiving end of the turn your brightness down.

It's like, always, I'm in the bloom of youth. I'm in my prime.
Sometimes he does that, right? We're going to talk. I'll spoil that one of my picks later today has to do with Oliver testing the 12 second time frame.
But sometimes he's just like in the finale, where's the young one? We need a pliable brain on this. So it works in all directions.
It's just great.

I thought on the Loretta Oliver

chemistry and natural charm

front too, the moment in the premiere

when they're in the fire pit

in the pool, and

they're talking about the Hollywood stars, and

just again, the way she laughed in response

to what Martin

Short, not Oliver Putnam, what

Martin Short said about that was just so charming. And I don't know, everything was like his anxiety.
Sparks are flying much like with Marshall on the set of the Ron Conkima project. The eyebrows, man, they never healed.
He's got to tape them on. Everything with the Ronnie Finsta and the junked plot.
I really enjoyed when Oliver, to your point about like he just always has the best lines and the funniest lines.

One of the ones that absolutely killed me when he's freaking out about Jonk was in episode five.

I myself went through a steroid phase.

Pregnidone for my sinus infections.

Right.

Incredible.

Reminded me of Mabel's you're pretty fit for a writer line from the finale. Rude.
I actually thought of you. I was like, I think Ben is going to be offended by this.
Yeah. You know, the Oliver Putnam story has always been a sacred only murderous tradition.
And obviously we get plenty of great ones this season as well. The Ron Ron hot soup slurp bit in the penultimate was a great one.
But what I really loved was in episode nine, when Oliver's telling a story and then he's like cut off, right? And then he jumps back in and says, devastating that you could know me so well. And yet think that was the end of my story.
The shorthand that they build between each other, that was great. With Oliver, it's always the combination of the bravado and the insecurity, which is yet another reason that he's the eternal MVP.
He's bragging. He's showing off.
He's flashy. But we see how deeply insecure he is in the episode where they all break off with the actors.
And he's like, Zach Galifianakis, I cannot get this guy to love me. This is a terrible feeling.
And he's really driven to a dark place by it. But then he's the same character who, when they discover the surveillance cameras, everybody's freaking out.
And his first response is, my Monday jammies. This is incredible.
This is a wonderful television character. And Galifianakis has the Mad Libs Oliver story where he's just sort of supplying, you know, insert proper name and year, et cetera.
And everyone doubts the stories, which to be clear, they're usually fabricated. But then he gets vindication when Ron Ron recognizes him and reciprocates with the slurping.
Some of this, there's some kernel of truth inside the stories. Was it me or did Oliver snort much more this season? I was not quite as conscious of how much snorting he did.
He really ramped up the snorting. Yeah, I've always loved the snort.
So it's definitely always been very present, but it became more... I don't know if the volume changed this season, but people were commenting on it more in the universe of the show.
And maybe it's just the show within the show this season was not the musical, but the movie being made of only murders, right? Which on the whole was, you know, somewhat distracting. I know there was the big moment, of course, where the actors come together to actually kind of break the case or at least an aspect of it.
But for a lot of it, it felt a little like, I mean, you know, entertaining moments, much like Jon Hamm shadowing Larry on Curb, where you just love to see someone who is not the person you're used to mirroring their mannerisms. But also just a little bit of like, this feels separate from the actual story that we want to see here.
Or Bev, the Hollywood executive, which I love Molly Shannon. She's great.
But I have seen her playing sort of the same character a lot lately. This was sort of the same character she played on the other two.
And I love that for you. Just sort of this very extra industry type.
And so that felt a little bit like... Did she make a smoothie out of Red Bull and Slim Jims on either of those programs? Because that's a thing that happened here.
It is. Yeah.
But Oliver, carrying the team as usual. Always.
Just, you know, surrounded by a championship core, but still. Great stuff.
Okay, I had no doubt we would be aligned there. Will we be aligned for our second superlative? Favorite episode? I would not be surprised.
What do you have here? I actually will say, I found this kind of hard. Yeah, yeah.
I am going to go with episode seven. The full trip to Doreen's house on Long Island.
Not my pick, but that's a great one. That's a great one.
For pure comedy, this was probably the richest text. Have you ever said out loud, I just got caught in her macrame duster? Have you ever said that to anyone? That might come up later on this episode.
But I know this is rich coming from someone who rarely leaves his apartment, but it was nice to see the trio get out of the house a little. I mean, we were just talking about, okay, the Arcania is kind of the core.
It's the setting. It's the warm, cozy feeling, the community aspect that we want.
But also, after four seasons, maybe it starts to get a little stale when you're wondering those same halls in those same sets. Should they have gone to Can-Cans instead of Dorian's house, though? Have you considered that? Yeah.
I know they're supposed to be in hiding, but yeah, Hooters for Butts, Ben. Think about it.
But they go to this extremely unsafe safe house, which was part of the comedy, just trying to get off the grid. Howard just giving away their location to anyone who calls.
But everyone shows up, Bev, all the actors, everyone is just dropping by. I think really the coup de grace, just the seminal moment of this series was probably the Billy Joel doorbell chime.
The scenes from an Italian restaurant. Unbelievable.
Just took me back to so many friends from high school. Just, you know, love the piano man.
But that just felt rich. It felt true.
And everything really about, you know, getting to learn a little more about Charles's background, his family, his sibling relationship. A lot of stuff about spleens.
The dolls, all of it. Just such a welcome little field trip and diversion from the norm for this series.
That's a great one. I also ended up picking something that involved an excursion.
I'm going with, after careful consideration and a genuinely hard time picking, I'm going with episode four, The Stuntman. That was under consideration for me too.
Yeah, I did consider the Dorian episode. First of all, the Saz-Charles framing in this episode, this is a very funny show, but part of its impact and charm is that it's quite touching.
Charles having to confront how much pain Saz was in and really reflect on how this is supposed to be his best friend, this central figure in his life, And there was so much he didn't know or stop to understand about her. And then also, of course, that builds toward we see later.
She was hiding that from him. She didn't want him to know.
After the stunt fall at the beginning of the finale, like, yeah, how you doing? I'm good. And then we see her hiding the ice pack, right? She wanted to keep her hero, her number one in the dark, so that he could be blissfully ignorant to her suffering.
So that was all just really interesting. Glenn Stubbins has already come up many times in the pod today.
But what this said about the really highly absurdist nature of the world of the show, yeah, Paul Rock could just come back and before he was Ben Glenroy and now he'll be Glenn Stubbins' stunt double. It's just incredible.
This was also the Ronnie Finsta thing with the iPad and we got to hear Oliver say in this episode, that's a one-way ticket to Cuck City Population. Which is iconic.
There were a lot of really funny lines and moments in this episode. I enjoyed Charles saying he spent two hours looking for an all night staples.
That killed me. Mabel saying most working adults are up by 8 a.m.
And Oliver replying, yeah. Farmers.
Farmers. Farmers.
Yeah. That's so wonderful.
And then, you know, there was, I agree with you, my primary relationship to the show is the vibe, the hang, the relationships, the charm of it, the oddity of it, the quirkiness of it. I'm not necessarily, I am not primarily watching it for the murder mystery, but when the mystery grips you, it is pretty cool.
And like the end of this episode, there was genuine suspense. Charles has pieced together what paradise is, this trampoline park in Jersey.
And they're driving up to this shack that Bev in the next episode will refer to as a, quote, poverty cottage. And we go into this dark room and Bev is there with a gun.
And I was like, oh shit, what's about to happen? So this episode kind of had it all. I also did really, I considered picking the penultimate episode of the season, which I liked a lot.
And now in hindsight, again, knowing we really did get the reveal like ahead of schedule is interesting to me. But that was a great, great, I'll circle back to some of this so I won't linger on this for long.
I have this coming in another pick. But you probably do too.
This was just a genuinely great Oliver-Charles relationship episode. And I'll leave it there because we're going to come back to it later.
Yes. I have more to say about both of those episodes also in upcoming categories.
Wonderful. So we can table that.
But Glenn Stubbins, I mean, there's almost a 30 rock element to this show at times. Yeah.
Which, you know, just kind of this, like, I mean, speaking of Jon Hamm and the character he played on that show, where it's just, like, as many laughs as you can cram into the thing as possible, just punchlines per minute. And that's, again, like, even that is not my primary reason for coming to this series.
It's not even the jokes or the murders. It is the feelings.
It's the friends that we made along the way. And so that's not the primary draw.
And yet when it does deliver that aspect of things, it's like, oh, this show is like four quadrant. It's like, you know, multi-pronged, two-way, you know, five-tool player kind of series when it's firing on all of those cylinders at once.
And so that was one of those episodes where it did get to that point. Yeah, for sure.
Okay. Next superlative.
Smartest red herring. Looking back, what really stands out to you? Yeah.
Well, you know, we've kind of learned how this show works as it's gone on. And to their credit, they've made an effort to mix up the formula a bit so it doesn't get too predictable.
But you know that you're not going to see the real killer until the end. Now, there were breadcrumbs along the way.
I mean, we found out that Marshall was an imposter who has fake facial hair, right? We could have read more into that at the time. But you know you're going to get tossed a lot of candidates who seem too obviously like the murderer.
And so you're not going to fall for that at this point. Probably the one that kind of got me to some extent.
And, you know, everything has just spun out to the point where we went from a murder board to multiple murder boards to a murder wall that we need to contain all of the clues in this case. But the Westies probably for me would be the most effective red herring, just in the sense that I love that addition.
Again, as someone who's lived a long time in New York apartments, buildings, the owner-renter divide, the idea that your neighbors are also strangers to you, that there might just be this distant lands within your home, that really appealed to me. And so it sort of seemed to be setting up this Westies versus Easties, I guess, kind of conflict showdown.
And I love the rear window aspects, the window dressing, so to speak, of this story, you know, kind of gazing across the courtyard, seeing what someone else is up to, creeping across a ledge at the end, when you know that there's someone who means you ill. And yet it turns out that the Westies are just another group of lonely misfits who are trying to find their way and find their family, right? And that's heartening in the end.
Now, on the whole, I felt like we didn't spend enough time with most of the Westies for me to get that invested in their relationship. And then the whole Dudinoff aspect, you know, it's tough to when you know a character exclusively through flashbacks, you know, memo to the acolyte.
Like sometimes it's tough to, sorry, Star Wars catching strays from me here today. But, you know, like it's a little tough when you're only seeing that character through the eyes of others or others' memories or the camera lens.
And so, you know, like, it feels like they should have their own spinoff show or something more so than them kind of being shoehorned into this one. But there was a time there.
The Arconia expanded universe? I love it. Yes, please.
Why not? But that felt a time like it was going to play a more prominent role in the endgame here. Yeah.
I mean, I, my, my pick is, I already said it earlier, I think just broadly, the idea of Charles being the real target when it actually was Saz was a massive red herring for how they pursued their investigation across the entire season. But then inside of that, because those are those areined, I think what you said is right.
The Westies, because Charles is the one on the other side of those windows, he is the one they're looking at. He's got the feelings about stink guy before he becomes pink guy.
He's got his feelings about the sauce family, et cetera, Christmas all the time guy. So I think for the Westies specifically, now this was in episode seven, which generally I would say is like too early for something to be like, oh, wow, we just learned a thing that really is going to prove who the murderer is.
That said, you mentioned the Marshall episode, like that's episode five adaptation. And we get, in hindsight now, everything we need is in that, really.
Which will come up in our next category.

Spoiler.

But that moment where Howard is at the bodega

and like sees the Westies

cashing the Dudinoff checks

on the security cam,

it was like something really shady

is going on with the Westies.

And of course we learned that there is a secret there,

a large one, many secrets.

Secrets within secrets.

But not a nefarious one. Even secrets from Helga.
A heartwarming one. But yeah.
Yeah. Wonderful.
Okay. Unless you want to sing the theme song to Perfect Strangers, we can move on to our fourth superlative, which is the other related part of this.
Looking back, we know what the actual crime was. We know who the killer was.
We know who the real victim was, who the target was, I should say. Most ingenious real clue, because there were plenty of clues that Marshall P.
Pope was the killer. What stands out to you now, either on the, oh, actually, Saz was the target front, or, oh, Marshall was the killer front, or anything else? Well, we were talking earlier about how much of this is laid out in advance.
Is there an there an Only Murders roadmap where they have season seven charted out and they're just sticking in little chips that they can cash in later? Kind of doubt it, kind of doubt that back in, say, season one, they knew what season four was going to be about. But I did appreciate the ingenious use of plot holes from previous seasons.
This was great. kind of close the holes and yet also reuse them here through Saz's notes about, you know, the dog, right? Like who poisoned Winnie, Oliver's dog, right? Like, you know, I would assume again, that this is probably something that the writers have kind of heard feedback from people saying, you know, who poised? What happened here? Who poisoned the dog? Which, again, is not really the way I'm watching this show.
I'm not necessarily keeping track of the things that, in retrospect, don't totally hang together. But I'm sure that some people are.
I'm sure that the writers are aware of the flimsier aspects of their plotting and are probably hoping that we won't notice, that they just, you know, throw Oliver out there to do some jazz hands, and we'll just kind of ignore some of the things that are dead ends. But the fact that they could come back three seasons later and repurpose plot holes to make them make sense in retrospect, if anyone was bothered by the fact that they didn't at the time, and then also give the actors their moment in the sun here to actually contribute something to solving the case, I thought that was ingenious.
Yeah, I love that. That's a great one.
And this is not a plot hole. This was a key aspect of the season two plot.
But I did love also just in terms of like bringing stuff back from the past that Jan at the end went after her incredibly creepy like wave and smile and her telling Charles that their end game and everything. Great, great return from Jan this season..
She's like, yeah, I've just been in those secret passageways, you know, like the ones that you all knew were there, but like nobody thought to look in after you told them that I like escaped through your closet. Great stuff.
So I'll go with the kind of obvious fastball down the middle here, which is just, again, all the Marshall clues looking back now at episode five, he falls over with a partial footprint on the tacky mat, like the exact thing they were looking for. Like we have a clear shot of him stepping on it, partial footprint, falling over, freaking out, just as Charles was talking about someone getting nervous because he saw them poking around.
He feels so excited that he's a suspect and not that he's getting notes, which like in real time played like, oh, nobody who actually did a bad thing would be happy to be a suspect. But now, given everything we've learned about this, like, and again, as you said in this episode, he's like, you know, you got to pretend to be the real thing, right? Fake it till you make it.
His anxiety about the writing, the quality of his writing, the fact, all of this was priming us for the fact that he stole this script. Like, he is not, he was not capable of writing the movie.
You know, we have later Bev saying that, like, every draft that he's turned in is worse than the one before. Like, that was really all, that part did really, like, land when we learned that he had taken the script.
Because it's like, yeah, this is not a person who could have written this script, clearly. Glenn Stubbins, you know, oh, when did you grow the beard? Because he recognized Rex beardless from the stunt work.
Can you tell us where you were the night Saz died? It's funny you ask. then later it's interrupted later in the scene he pretends like maybe he also did a comedy act

that he actually has on YouTube, a full hour set, would love some feedback, would love some notes. But before he says the thing about standup later in that conversation, just the way that lingered, can you tell us where you were? Oh, it's funny you ask now, feels very keen.
Really striking when he's talking about not just the fake beard and the haircut, but the glasses and says these aren't really there. I have 2010 vision, like sniper vision, right? Like this is a guy who, we're in the stretch of the season where they're like looking for the rifle and oh, a rifle.
He's like, I have 2010 vision. But most of all, the murder board feedback, the way that he is like saying, no, you don't know who the target was.
Interesting. Oh, that why section is a lot of motives.
And then all the feedback on the timing, specifically the way that he says, the person who did this would have to be extremely fit, a gifted athlete in the best shape of their life.

And like, if you go back to the shots of his apartment,

it's like, there's a bike that he's clearly riding.

There are weights under the bench.

Like, it's just, they gave us all the clues, Ben.

So a lot of stuff in the Marshall episode.

Yeah.

If we were sort of true detective-ing this thing

and actually trying to speculate and, you know, just, I'm not on the subreddits for this series. So if I were, if I were more clued in, literally, then, you know, there's enough there that you can see these things coming.
Again, I prefer for it to wash over me. But when it's done, I also appreciate that the pieces are all there, that you can go back.
And, you know, this is not the first time that only murders reveal. It's turned out to be sort of, you know, the assistant, like the person on the side, right? Kind of the lower profile character who is ignored and pushed out of the spotlight.
And this is how they kind of, you know, get their moments. So we've run this playbook before, but it works well enough.
Speaking of things that work, number five, funniest moment or scene. I think we're going to have different things here.
I think we might have the same for our most touching moment or scene, which is our next category after this, but let's actually hear our picks. Kai, can you play Ben's funniest moment or scene? Or Ben, do you want to set it up?

Any preamble or should we hear it first and then you'll explain it?

Kai, cue it up. I think it'll be

immediately obvious what it is.

Okay, don't tell me to calm down.

Okay, why don't you go back to Beverly Hills?

Whoa!

Listen, I rent a studio in

Burbank. You know, it's under a Whole Foods.

I don't need you throwing your rich bitch

shit in my face. You need to calm down.
You need to get out of my house, you Hollywood fuzzy! Stop! Yeah! Who does this? What? Get it! Stop resisting! I don't believe you! What are you doing to me? I don't know why you're eating your brains! Oh my god! You're eating them! Why you're eating your brains, huh? Oh! Meryl Streep, legend of stage and screen. Not afraid to get down and dirty with Doreen.
And I love reading the back and forth, the behind the scenes of how this scene came together. No stunt doubles.
So it would be thematically appropriate if there had been for this season. But no, they did these action stunts themselves.
Melissa McCarthy, according to a variety run through of how this came together, I quote, I was not going to miss the opportunity to hurl Streep over the back of a couch. Streep.
For the record, I wouldn't want to meet Meryl in a dark alley. She moves like an 18-year-old bobcat.
According to co-creant John Hoffman, they ran through the fight in full three times and they were somewhat dismayed because they didn't think it went near far enough. They wanted this to be no holds barred.
Like they wanted there to be blood and there was not. There were fake pigtails being pulled here.
So again, like Meryl Streep doesn't have to do this, you know, she can do any part she wants. She doesn't have to be in a Long Island brawl.
And yet she is not afraid to do that. She is as good at that as she is at everything.
And this was just an absolute delight. Wonderful pick.
I have no notes. It's not my pick.
Kai, can we hear my pick? How am I doing? It's been 38 minutes. What? What happened to you, Oliver? Well, I got off to a good start.
No, you didn't. No, I did not.
I've been on a journey. I saw things.
I did things. I failed.
I failed. I failed as an athlete, as a movie character, as a fashion icon, as a guardian of the city's wildlife.
This is my single favorite moment of the season. Oliver standing there in full McEnroe cosplay, having just passed John McEnroe on the streets.
He's got the headband on. He's got the windbreaker.
He's got the shorts. He's got the trainers.
And then he comes into the room. We had seen him.
He can't. He thinks he, this is all about John.
It's all about Loretta. It's all about the anxiety.
He needs to prove to himself, to Loretta, to the world that he's fit. He's young.
He's worthy. Can't, first thing, can't get down off the radiator, right? I sunk 20 grand into these knees.
Incredible. All of the recurring, talk about a recurring bit.
Like Oliver's knees and always, we always get this one great moment. The stairs moment is an all-timer.
It's just historic. And when he returns and thinks he's done it, filthy, a bird feather sticking out of that beautiful hair that you love so much.
And the initial shock when he hears the time into the emotion of that. This is just so funny.
I've been on a journey. I saw things.
I did things. I failed.
I failed as an athlete, as a movie character, as a fashion icon, as a guardian of the city's wildlife as he's holding the feather in his hand. This is Oliver Putnam in miniature to me, and I loved everything about it.
I was in tears watching that scene. It was so funny.
And because, not to overanalyze the joke, but because he is so delusional most of the time, because he is so arrogant and overconfident in his own abilities, the moments when he's self-deprecating or he acknowledges his shortcomings can be the best because that's just a note we don't get from him that often. It's wonderful.
Just wonderful stuff. Great show.
Okay. From the laughter to the heart.
I think we have the same pick here. This is my prediction, but maybe not.
There were a lot of candidates. This is our category for most touching moment or scene.
You want to go first? Yes, Kai. Roll the tape.
You're my emergency contact. What? Well, when I fill out forms, I put your name.
And I know you used to put mine, but now it's Loretta's. You know, I always knew Mabel would one day spread her wings and leave, but you and me, I thought we'd, you know, grow older and die together.
And don't get me wrong, I like Loretta. I really like Loretta.
But now I'm kind of the awkward guy, third-wheeling it on your dates, you know, saying, hey, let's split a dessert three ways. You know, I never wanted, really, to throw you a bachelor party.
I just wanted to celebrate our friendship. That's also my pick, buddy.

Yeah, I figured it would be.

You and me, we're growing old together too.

And this was, unlike Charles, I did not have to struggle to summon a single tear while watching this scene.

This was great.

Because this was just beautiful.

The fact that it took place while they're both wearing mocap suits with the little dots on their private parts makes it all the better after they just yell at each other. But they're yelling at each other because they care so much.
And, you know, this idea of just like them finding each other, just the lifeboat, right? I thought if this was not your pick that maybe the lifeboat Westies found family. I know you love a found family.
That episode eight might come into play here, but this was just so beautiful. And we have so much history with these two, unlike with the Westies.
And again, it's like when you're watching Martin Short and Meryl Streep. Here you're watching Martin Short and Steve Martin, and you're knowing the real life aspect of their relationship, the way that they're the two amigos, that they go back decades as best buds, as frequent scene partners.
You could imagine, you know, and Martin Short's a widower, like they've been with each other through thick and thin. And I would guess that there's some real feeling behind this.
And then, of course, when they go to the Chinese restaurant and just they're like hiding their faces behind the menu so that they can speak so that they can share their feelings. Just that whole like episode nine, you know, perfect example of the show, like being zany, but then also having a heart.
Incredible. My pick as well.
You summed it up beautifully. The menus pay off.
And like, Ben, we go way back. We've known each other for more than a decade.
We've been working together for more than a decade. I watched you take a bride.
And I will say to you now, like, you know, you might not be my emergency contact, but you can be my life alert contact in case I fall and we can get colonoscopies together. Everything in that episode, the wands, you know, the like, the number of Oliver's like, am I taking crazy pills? You know, there's a lot of like tension and comedy that builds up toward it.
And then just that vulnerability from from Charles, like who we talk a lot about what Oliver keeps hidden and what he shows to the world, but Charles is like deeply emotionally repressed character and was so resistant to like forming this friendship in the first place. And like the real payoff here, especially in a season that is so oriented around Charles really having to reflect on his relationship with Saz and like what he lost, which also isn't, you know, that's like a contender for a pick here, certainly.
I mean, I thought like Charles taking Saz's ashes to the wedding or like even just saying that the movie meant more to him now that he understood that she wrote it or like saying at the beginning of the season, like Saz can't end up on a wipe and like the real panic that he felt about having failed her. Like all of that is the, it's a central text, but also that it's the backdrop for, for Charles thinking about what Oliver means to him and what it means to have a friend that you care about that deeply and who you'll travel through life together with.
That was just a beautiful moment. And like, I love like you're calling out the mocap scenes because the absurdity of the setting is part of what gives the show such a specific quality and sense of self.
And it just hits so hard. Those are the Chinese restaurant menus of the show.
You know, like have this beating heart underneath this scene where they're CGI aliens, right? So it works. Like if it were too sappy, maybe it's too much, but you kind of, you know, cut it with the comedy and it's just the perfect blend.
And shout out to Steve Martin. Like we've been praising Martin Short and Meryl Streep.
Like there's a great depth to his character too. Even the Charles and Doreen connection kind of worked for me.
And I love how Charles, you know, normally just so reserved,

can't access his emotions.

But every now and then

you get that glimmer

of like the 70s, 80s,

Steve Martin

kind of coming out

and just hamming it up.

And so he has that aspect

of him too.

And yet also supplies

some of the emotional depth.

Just it's a great group,

which I guess

takes us to our next category.

It does.

We're going to go

more rapid fire through our final superlatives here to wrap. Number seven, favorite scene partners or group? I mean, it's probably the two that we just talked about, but the core trio, the three amigos, who, as I said, are back together more often this season, even if they are sort of squeezed out at times.
Just incredible chemistry there, there's no real rival for these three. Now, I love them with Detective Williams.
This was going to be my pick to put a twist on it, just because I assumed that we would have talked about the core trio so much to this point. Obviously, the core trio is the pick.
Obviously, the three of them together are wonderful. Charles and Oliver inside of that are unbelievable.
Oliver and Loretta have been great. But when you put a little dusting of Detective Williams on the Central Trio, it is a different kind of magic.
There's a part of me that thinks like, you know, we just haven't gotten as much, obviously, of Divine Joy Randolph in the show because she, I mean, is like literally an Oscar winner and doing amazing things

and that's awesome,

but we've missed her.

I would love for her,

for Detective Williams

to be in the show more.

There's a part of me

that thinks like,

because it is so limited,

it is even more precious to us,

but I do believe that

even if we had a

Detective Williams scene

in every episode,

it would still be perfect.

Yeah, another spinoff.

The Only Murders

Expanded Universe.

Dare to Dream. Wow, you're really, you're building like a a...
You can launch your own streamer with this. Call me Bev.
Episode three, call me Bev. Move over buttons.
Ben's got something else for you. Episode three, her rundown of Jan's likely assumed escape to Florida because, quote, there's a shit ton of orchestras and sex toy shops.
And then when she referred to Zach Galifianakis as that scrumptious fuckable baklava, that scrumptious fuckable baklava is portraying you in a movie. And then when she comes back in episode six and it's like, I had one request, one fucking request.
Don't let anything happen to Galifianakis. Just so good.
So good. Yeah.
Hidden dimensions to that character, too. Huge musical fan.
Love that for her, too. Incredible.
And I guess our next category is also about cameos or in some cases, not so much cameos. More than cameos.
I'm curious to see if we interpreted this the same way. Yeah, whether he went for a true cameo or more of a central figure.
Our next category is like the most additive celebrity inclusion. So you could pick someone who was in five episodes or you could pick someone who was in one scene.
I went with Richard Kind, who I think is the best of the Westies, the most fully fleshed out of the Westies too. Just feels like he should have been on this series from the start.
And maybe that's just because he is an Upper West Side resident.

He's a neighbor of mine.

It's like when he shows up

and he does a cameo in Girls 5 Eva

and he says he has an IMDb page

longer than a wizard's beard.

It's true.

You look at it.

This was another little bit of growth

on that beard.

And he says in that show,

you don't want the big time.

You want the medium time.

Never be above number five on the call sheet of life. And he isn't here.
But even though he's not one of the actors playing himself, it seems like he is. I could believe that they just sort of showed up at Richard Kind's apartment and started filming and he happened to have an eye patch on.
He just became Vince Fish because he already was. Yes.
So he just, he feels like he lives in the Yarkonia.

I believe it.

I also went with a Westie, but I went with a different Westie.

Who do you think I picked?

Helga?

Nope.

Oh, wow.

Kumail?

I picked, I'm going with Rudy.

I'm going with Kumail.

I'm going with Christmas all the time guy.

Really for one scene.

I mean, obviously great as always, always wonderful. The episode...
No, the apps were also very memorable though. The idea of a fitness influencer who got stuck pretending to love Christmas because of like one viral reel is wonderful.
The episode eight of Few Good Men scene was incredible. Are you going to do the whole monologue? Yeah, I was, I was going to do the whole monologue.
I think it's worth it. And then he does.
This was a remarkable bit of television that I absolutely adored. So I just thought in general, like, I agree, the Westies were really fun.
Um, and I thought that Rudy gave us a convincing suspect for a stretch of the show. Then that, that trademark blend of heart and humor that we need in only murders and like really feels at home in the world of the show.
So we had kind of similar like logics, I guess behind the, but different Westies. Interesting.
Okay. Ben speaking of meta, our next category is the best or worst podcasting moment, according to two podcasters.
Plenty of choices here because we're praising a lot about the season. I did think this was a knock.
The actual making of the podcast is so minimal this season. I was going to say there barely were any podcast moments.
I had a tough time with this one because early on when they're just getting the show started, there was a sense of like, you know, you didn't see them cutting every last second of tape, but they would at least perform. They'd stand in front of a mic, right? They'd have a recording session of sorts.
You'd see them plotting out lines. Here, barely any, right? This was an all-time low for podcast recording screen time, which is fair.
Maybe that's not the greatest draw either, though. Subscribe to all the Ringers' YouTube channels, please.
But, you know, maybe it's not the most riveting visually to see them speak into microphones. But they didn't do a lot of that this season.
I think maybe that had to do with how convoluted the plot was. The fact that not only did we not know who the killer was, we didn't know who the victim was.
And so how could you make a podcast about that? Granted, they have run off the rails and implicated people who were innocent in past seasons, but like... They never care about shattering someone's reputation.
But like, yeah, even the big Westie reveal. Right.
And ultimately, this can't go in the show. They're just like, well, we're not going to put that in the show because we actually they are nice people and we don't want them to lose their cheap rent control departments.
Early on, you had that Greek chorus of the fans, like the listeners, who would kind of stalk them almost and sit next to them at the diner. Like, there was a sense that, oh, there's like a community around the show.
People are listening to it and interacting with it. And in this season, in one sense, it seems bigger than ever.
There's a movie being made of it. And on the other hand, it's like you get really no sense that like anyone's listening to this or following along or that anyone still particularly cares about the podcast.
So that aspect has just sort of receded from you. And, you know, for better or worse, producer Kai would probably be pained by how much recording on phones was happening in this season.
Phones that you're not even speaking directly into. Just out in the world, out in the wild.
In the vicinity, you know, we'll speak in the broad direction of a microphone and maybe this will be good enough to tape. So yeah, that's tough.
The actual mechanics of the podcasting, you know, never been a strength of TV shows in general. Yeah.
If you are a podcaster, which it's probably tedious to hear people who are on a podcast talking about. Kai says nightmare fuel.
Yes. Popping into theping into the chat.
I know. I mean, in the past, it's been Mabel, right, who's been sitting down and grinding out the edits on these things.
So I don't know what she has to work with anymore. I did enjoy when they're trying to get onto the Ron Howard Klongo set, and Mabel describes their show to the security guard by saying, we're professional podcasters.
Only murderers in the building? We're the most listened to murder podcast on the Upper West Side that's sponsored by a deli chain? I love that they're still going strong with that sponsorship. Great stuff.
So here's what I'm going to go with for podcasting moment. Mabel spends some of the season thinking about, oh, podcast producer.
I'm a podcast producer. Mabel, you're missing a hit.
Howard has a hit on his hands with Animal Jobs. And Mabel has failed to take this seriously.
Gravy? The Central Park Clydesdale? The Bodega Cat, Howard is on to something here. And I have no doubt that Animal Jobs will be a chart topper if Mabel ever engages and decides to make.
I actually, when I finished the season, I went to Spotify to check to see if they had released Animal Jobs. It's like a bit of related content around the season, which I think they should have done.
It's not too late, Hulu. It's not too late.
Let's pilot it. We have a podcast network.
I have a beloved Dachshund who's co-hosting this episode on my lap right now. I have a cat who is the most important person in my life.
And yes, I said person. Next category.
Best use of New York or, I don't think you'll go this way, but if you're so inclined, Los Angeles. I will not.
Had a lovely time in Los Angeles seeing you and others that we work with last week, but I will be going with New York Moments.

We are both former residents of Hell's Kitchen. Yep.
In fact, we lived on the same block at different times. Crossed the street from each other.
Yes. Ships passing in the night, but ultimately meeting.
And one thing I love is when you watch a show that's set in Hell's Kitchen, you know, your Daredevils, your Jessica Joneses, and it's still like it's the 70s. It's rough and tumble.
It's a seedy neighborhood. It's unsafe to walk the streets.
You can solve crime by night, be a PI, be a lawyer who is great at fighting crime and solving murders. The current Hell's Kitchen, not my experience.
Not much crime to fight these days. It's playgrounds and gleaming glass skyscrapers and gourmet food markets.
And so when our crew makes an excursion to Hell's Kitchen, ostensibly Hell's Kitchen, we get the great line. Have you ever been to Hell's Kitchen? Yeah, I've eaten at Oliver's.
Well done. But also we get concussions, the stunt person bar, which is supposed to be the humblest hovel in Oliver's words.
The exterior establishing shot that we get of concussions is in no way Hell's Kitchen for one thing. In fact, I don't know if this is intentional or not kind of poking fun at the fakeness of it, much like when they go to LA and you get the fake New York City set.
Oh, that was great. Yeah.
Godzilla. You can see street signs.
This is Ridgewood, Queens, at least the outside of this bar. So it looks nothing like Hell's Kitchen.
But it rings true to me that- You can't ask Glenn Stubbins to eat a dumpster apple in Hell's Kitchen, man. No.
You got to go elsewhere. Not enough rats.
Actually, still a fair amount of rats, but Eric Adams is on it. But you get these little hints of these insular Upper West Siders takes one to no one.
And It's, you know, when Oliver feels like he's taking his life in his hands to venture down to Hell's Kitchen, or in episode six, he says desperately, take us to the Upper West Side anywhere but the hell that is Soho. Again, this is New Yorker humor here, but these are not nasty neighborhoods.
And so the fact that they're so out of their element, anytime they leave the immediate vicinity of the Arconia, just great sort of 30 Rock-esque inside joke sort of humor. On that front, my pick for New York is early in the season when they're trying to call in Saz's murder and there are 68 emergencies ahead of them.
And Oliver says, 68. Okay.
It looks like our glorious city has given us a minute. That's amazing.
And then they obviously returned to that in the finale. 72 emergencies ahead of you.
I am a Los Angeles resident. So while I do not want only murders to move to California, I will call out that the immediate procurement of In-N-Out as they're driving the limo through the city, wonderful stuff.
And then I would be remiss if I did not notice that one of the things that stood out to me most watching this season, when they're in that aforementioned fire pit in the pool, I'm like, I have seen this house on Selling Sunset. I recognize this fire pit in this pool, in this Los Angeles mansion in the hills.
Great stuff. I like the idea that they're just renting out that house for production after production.
Okay. Speaking of things that look swanky, we're almost done here, Ben.
11th category, Fit Lord. I personally feel that there are only really two contenders for this, but I'm curious to see which you go with.
And maybe you'll surprise me. Well, Oliver reigns supreme in this category.
That's one of them. Annually.
But I'm going to go off the board. I'm going to go with Doreen.
Oh! Okay, twist. As Loretta says, who wears a train in their own house? Doreen does.
Yeah. The wigs, the nails, the décolletage, the dolls, the various aspects of clothing that one can get their pigtails stuck in during an impromptu brawl.
Doreen has a look, and apparently Melissa McCarthy brought a lot of that look to this character, took it very seriously, brought some of her own items of clothing, and I salute the look. It It feels true to me.
I was going to go with the Billy Joel doorbell as the New York moment, but we already mentioned that. So I'll just say the general aesthetic of Doreen and her habitat.
Great pick. With apologies to Oliver's scarves and to his sensational wedding suit.
I'm going with Mabel here because Mabel's fashion season after season continues to be iconic. And I loved that it was actually like active text this season.
When Bev said in episode nine, something about your erotic non-sexuality. And Mabel says, yes, the sweaters.
I just really loved that. The kind of like chunky jumper, the mustard yellow jumper that was featured prominently in the middle back of the season.
Wonderful. Particular highlight.
Just great stuff for Mabel, as always, who, you know, ever since she like raided her aunt's closet at the beginning of the show has never once failed to deliver. And then, Ben, to wrap, we just wanted to do a very quick, in our final moment here, season ranking.
You just binged, you caught up on all of them. They're all pretty fresh in your head.
You've revisited this more recently than I have. I rewatched seasons one and two before season three, but I did not watch all three before season four.
Hit me with your ranking. Yeah, this is tough.
I think there's a general perception that there has been a decline, that the show has gotten worse over time. I don't disagree with that.
Again, I think the aspects of the show that we're really here for. Is your order one, two, three, four? I strongly considered that.
I think that would be a defensible ranking. I mean, the thing is that I initially I lost touch with the show mid season two.
You know, I just swallowed season one, love season one. Season two, I was just out for a while and actually just kind of got back into it and been really good.
Yeah, I for whatever reason, it didn't hook me at the time. And so the fact that it led to a little hiatus for me in watching the show makes me want to rank that lower.
I'm not a musical head like our pal Joanna, but that show within a show worked for me just because some of those numbers were legitimately great. So, like, just a lot of care given to that.
And again, you know, to invoke Curb, kind of like the producer season, I mean, sometimes it's fun to have that sort of peg, but I guess I would go with, yeah, kind of like a linear decline, probably. Personally, I might put two lower than the consensus, I would say, and then I'd probably say three and four, but I don't feel like it's a steep drop off.
And having watched them all kind of in quick succession, at least for season one, it feels to me like they've more or less retained what I like about this show. A very, very gentle slope.
Yes, graceful. Yes.
Right, we're aging gracefully. Yeah, I'm with you.
I go in order, but it's pretty close to a straight line. One is just it's hard to top one because it was such a surprise.
Right. When something just like captivates you in a way that you actually could not have anticipated, it's really hard to match that.
I do think, and we've both said many times, we're not watching primarily for the mystery, but I do think the mystery in season two was really good. Yes.
And I think it had to be, right? Like that was kind of the load bearing aspect of that season before we got to know and care about these characters the way that we do now where the vibes are enough. We can get by on the vibes.
Early on, it was like, no, this is a serious murder show. Like this is a real mystery.
The outcome actually matters. There are clues, right? So we've kind of gone away from that again, for better or worse, but I'm still enjoying the ride.
Can't wait for season five, man. Yeah.
We know we'll be back a year from now, probably like almost exactly.

We can probably put it on our calendar. for better or worse.
But I'm still enjoying the ride. Can't wait for season five, man.
Yeah. We know we'll be back

a year from now,

probably like almost exactly.

We can probably put it

on our calendars right now.

Let's plant a pot

about it again then, man.

I can't wait.

This was a blast.

I had a great time.

Improbably murderous settings

are a rich tradition

in mystery shows.

So people who are like,

another murder in the Orconia?

Come on.

Like, have you seen Murder,

She Wrote?

Have you seen

any other murdery show?

Like, there's a bottomless

well of crime here.

And this one literally hits

Let's go. were like, another murder in the Arconia? Come on.
Have you seen Murder, She Wrote? Have you seen any other murdery show? There's a bottomless well of crime here. And this one literally hits close to home because I live, again, in a 100-year-old apartment building less than a mile from the real life Arconia.
And I did some research before we did this pod. I could not find a single murder in my building, which is why I'm not a true crime podcast.
I dove into the newspaper archives, the closest I could find the most interesting crime committed,

at least known to have been committed.

Who knows how many murders are unsolved and unrevealed. But closest one I could find is a 1984 incident in which a woman was arrested for weapons

possession, menacing and unlawful imprisonment after allegedly holding her husband hostage with two pistols after an argument about him leaving the apartment. So I don't know if it worked out for those two.
Honestly, she sounds perfect for me because I don't go out that much. So I wonder if she's still in the building somewhere.
We might be a perfect pair. Super weird vibes from you here at the end.
Ben, it took four seasons, but now we're cooking with gas. Had a blast.
Thanks for doing this. Thank you, of course, to Kai Grady for producing this episode.
Thank you to Justin Sales for production supervision. Remember, Joanna and Mahoney will be back with you

on this very podcast feed

to talk about disclaimer.

Until next time, remember,

at least four of the settings

on the Lady Longoria

could kill you.